Morning Joe - Trump hosts ‘Great Gatsby’ Halloween party as food assistance expired for millions

Episode Date: November 3, 2025

Trump hosts ‘Great Gatsby’ Halloween party as food assistance expired for millions Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

All right, candidates, you're all running to be mayor of New York City. So my question is, why would you want the worst job in the world? As we all know, as soon as you are elected, mayor, everyone in the city immediately hates you. And in that way, I am already one step ahead of the game. Mr. Mom Donnie, same question. I want to be mayor so I can deliver a better New York, free health care, affordable housing, free Wi-Fi. As mayor, can I make that? happen? I'm not sure yet. But together, we're going to find out that the answer is no.

Okay, Saturday night lives cold open, taken on the New York City mayoral race. We're going to go through that contest. And tomorrow's other key elections across the country. Plus, this morning, we are entering day 34 of the government shutdown. Millions of Americans no longer have access to food assistance and federal workers are going without paychecks. But at Maralago this weekend, all the opulence of the roaring 20s was on full display with President Trump hosting a Great Gatsby-themed party. We will dig into that parallel. Also ahead, we'll play for you. What President Trump admitted in a 60-minute interview about his pardon for a crypto tycoon who has ties to the Trump family businesses. Good morning. And welcome to Morning, Joe. It is Monday, November 3rd. With us,

we have the co-host of our fourth hour staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan Lemire, MSNBC political analyst and former U.S. Senator Claire McCaskill is with us. U.S. Special Correspondent for BBC News and the hosts of the Rested Politics Podcast, Katty Kay, back with us. And politics reporter for Semaphore, Dave Weigel is here, and senior writer for The Dispast dispatch and a calmness for Bloomberg opinion, David Drucker. He's an MSNBC contributor. And John Lemire, of course, the president's saying he knew nothing, nothing about this crypto giant and who it was, who he pardoned. It reminds me of the old saying about Donald Trump. When he says he knows nothing about something, he knows everything about something.

And when he says he knows everything about something, he probably knows nothing about that very subject. Yeah. And in this case, he says he knows nothing about a subject when he knows it's not good for him to acknowledge that he knew what he was doing, trying to really distance himself from a pretty controversial part. And Binance founder, Zhang Pan Zhao, who was pleaded guilty to violating anti-money laundering laws. That's the person in question here. But he sort of got a pardon out of nowhere, and people wondering why that is, it's in part because they have extraordinary crypto business with the Trump family.

The Trump eldest sons, Don Jr. and Eric Trump have been heavily into crypto. ventures over the last handful of last year or two, started during the campaign, and now, of course, while their father is in the White House. And last time, in Trump's first term, there was at least a very flimsy, but firewall, I guess, between administration business and the Trump family business, no pretense that's the case. This time around at all, the family has enriched itself time and time again. And they were the ones who brought the pardon to their father's attention. Yeah, I mean, you look at you, again, you look at the Gatsby themed party while food stamps are going to be cut, while food assistance is being slashed, while members of Congress and a lot of people in that room are getting paid for working, but they're making sure that federal employees are not getting paid while they work. and all of this opulence at a time when, you know, two out of three Americans say that

Donald Trump is not doing what they thought he was going to do on the economy. And I'm just, I'm curious just on a personal, do you have any or does any, has anybody been keeping track of exactly how much Donald Trump and the family have made since he's become president with their cryptocurrency, their cryptocurrency deals. You know, because it used to be where, you know, last term would be like, oh, well, somebody may have stayed in one of his hotels, and boy, that's murky. And does that, you know, reach the emoluments clause? Here, it's just, it's just straight out cryptocurrency and billions and billions of dollars reportedly left and right. How much money have they racked up over the last nine, ten months?

The fact that we don't know is another problem here, Joe. There's no transparency. Yes, I think it's fair to say tens, if not hundreds of millions. There are some estimates to say, yes, could be a billion dollars or more that the various Trump enterprises have made since President Trump took office because there is no effort to separate their business. In fact, there is deliberate attempts from the family. It would certainly seem, and reportedly so, to enrich themselves by manipulative. their father, the father's work in office and he's getting legislation passed or executive orders passed that are beneficial to them. And you're right, that party on, we should know,

that party on Friday, as the government remains shut down, just hours before the snap deadline where suddenly millions of Americans would go hungry, this great Gatsby-themed party at Marlago. I'm going to hazard guess that President Trump hasn't read the book. It turns out, knows how it turned out. But a White House official there told the pool, that's what we have these images. The White House press pool was briefly allowed inside. What we're not showing here as they're also scatily clad dancers in martini glasses, but that White House official, Joe and Mika, told the pool there, quote, a little party never killed nobody. All right. Well, I'll tell you what, it's certainly if I were a Republican running on Tuesday, and again, there's this obliviousness

to what's going on there. There's this self-relivenousness. There's this self, dealing. There's these Gatsby-themed parties. And again, let's show this poll, the NBC News poll that shows that when it comes to, we've talked about the right track, wrong track direction over and over again, that that's upside down, that most people, most polls that were out last week in the week before showed Donald Trump in the 30s as far as approval ratings on the economy here, only 34% of Americans believe that he's lived up to expectations on the economy. Nearly two out of three say he's fallen short. And with food assistance being torn from people in red state America, especially, but also blue state America, there are a lot of people

in his own party that are asking what the hell's going on. Yeah. So President Trump says the government shutdown could be ended if Republicans take the, quote, nuclear option of ending the filibuster. Trump told 60 minutes, quote, the Republicans have to get tougher. If we find, if we end the filibuster, we can do exactly what we want. He also posted about that desire on truth social. The move is something Senate Majority Leader John Thune has said he's unwilling to do. Meanwhile, the Trump administration has until noon today to update a federal judge who, ruled last week, the Agriculture Department must disperse snap benefits after nearly 42 million Americans lost benefits on Saturday because of the shutdown. A Rhode Island judge says the

administration must either make a full snap payment by the end of the day to day or a partial payment by Wednesday after the White House reversed a plan to use a $5 billion contingency plan to keep the program running. They have the money. Over 42 million Americans rely on SNAP and the shutdown has led to long lines at food banks and emergency food distribution centers. Agricultural Secretary Brooke Rollins says the contingency fund won't even cover about half of November's SNAP needs. Yesterday, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said SNAP payments could be made as soon as Wednesday, but that the government had to figure out what the process is to make such payments. You know, Claire McCaskill, a lot to talk about there,

and we're going to be going to a new polling very soon that show most Americans do blame Donald Trump and the Republican Party for the shutdown. But before we get there, just let's talk about the filibuster first, second, and one of the reasons why John Thune saying, ah, we don't want to go there. It seems every time a party's in power, they say, there are some people that say they want to end the filibuster. It happened when Joe Biden was in power. It happened when Donald Trump was in power before coming from Donald Trump. He's saying it again.

And yet the Republicans, this does seem to be one area where they understand that turnabouts fair play. And what they do unto the Democrats, the Democrats will soon do unto them. Yeah. I think people need to remember that the Senate is one place you can't gerrymander, which means we are always going to have states where the power will go back and forth. Look at a state like Pennsylvania, where you have Josh Shapiro, a really strong Democratic governor, but Bob Casey lost in Pennsylvania to McCormick. And that's what helped the Senate get its majority. Well, Pennsylvania is still Pennsylvania. And going forward, there's a good chance

that Democrats could win back that seat. Same thing in Ohio. Same thing in other states. So when that happens, those Republicans in the Senate know that the Senate being the Senate is over. They are the House. It is just who's in power, even by a hang nail. And that means they have everything and the other party has nothing. That is not the way the Senate has worked through history. And frankly, it's really bad for our democracy because the only place you have a chance to get compromised and lasting policy changes, that's the Senate. So, according to the latest NBC News poll, 52% blame the GOP and Trump, while 42% blame Democrats, 4% blame all parties involved. And Joe, you know, in interviews past, Donald Trump has said, it's the president.

If there's a shutdown, it's the president who really pulled. He's always said it's the president's fault. Yeah. Also in that poll, Democrats appear to have an early lead when it comes to next year's fight for control of Congress. 50% of Americans want the Democratic Party to control Congress versus 42% who want Republicans to have full control. As Joe mentioned, roughly two-thirds of voters say the president has failed to meet expectations on the economy. Another two-thirds say he hasn't lived up to expectations when it comes to looking out for the middle class, inflation. Those are just—

Deadly numbers. Affordability, affordability. They would be for any party, Dave, while. I mean, you show right track, wrong track, and then you show these numbers. I don't care if it's for the last Democratic president or the next Democratic president. You don't have to know the president's name. You can look at these numbers and understand it's a problem for the party in power. Another reason why John Thune may be going, yeah, you know what?

I think we may keep the filibuster because when you think about it, John Thune, since Barack Obama got elected, that he's been in the Senate, you know, 12 of the 17 years that he's been in the Senate. Democrats have had a president of the White House. So again, maybe Donald Trump and maybe three or four people that work for Donald Trump don't understand that there's this ebb and flow in American politics, and it comes usually every two years. But John Thune and Republicans understand that. And you look at these numbers, and right now things seem to be.

breaking against Republicans, certainly on the economy on the right track, wrong track areas. That's true. And what are Republicans not getting because the filibuster exists? They have found that you can get, if you control the presidency, a lot of your spending priorities done through the president deciding not to spend money through sending precisions package to Congress. They already have no filibuster for judges. Democrats started that. Republicans fed it up. Soon, reformed the filibuster just this year. Reform Senate rules so they could have block confirmations of nominees. So they are speeding up the work of the Senate. The worry, if they're listening to Democratic candidates, I find more and more Democratic Senate candidates who are saying, if they get

there, they want to get rid of the filibuster. And why is that? They look at the Biden experience, before that, the Obama experience, and think, how much more policy could we have passed if we only needed 51 votes? How much could we have run on a higher minimum wage or public option or the things that just didn't happen because the filibuster exists? If Republicans are listening to Democrats. They expect them one day, a not more radical party, but certainly more radical in how they use rules to change that rules. They don't want to make it easier for them. So David Drucker, you are in New Jersey right now covering the gubernatorial race election day tomorrow. We've talked a lot on the show about how it appears the shutdown is playing a role in that campaign that President Trump

and, you know, as a form of political punishment slash funding to a couple of big projects that, yes, in New York City, but they impact New Jersey, including this new train tunnel that's so desperately needed for those who commute back and forth from the Garden State into Manhattan. This is a race that, you know, got certainly closer to Democrats would like, although it does seem like Congresswoman Sherrill has opened up a little bit of a lead. Talk to us about how things in the shutdown in particular are playing out on the ground there. Yeah, I spent a little time with Chittarelli yesterday and with Mikey Sherrill. And it was a real contrast in messaging. Chittarelli, who of course, has run before, so his name ID is very high, talked a lot about

cultural issues and then talked a lot about Trenton, right? And that's what you want to do when you're trying to position yourself as a change candidate. Mikey Sherrill, her messaging was broader, it had a lot more to do with sort of the national political dynamics, although she too talked about affordability, energy costs, grocery costs, things like that. And so I think, you know, these candidates are trying to do two different things. Chitterelli's running against Trenton. Keep in mind, as blue of a state as this is, it moved toward Republicans in 2024, and Democrats have stressed to me it has been 40 years since the Democratic Party held the

governor's mansion in New Jersey for three consecutive terms. The difference here is usually when a Republican will win the governor's mansion in New Jersey, there's a Democrat in the White House, and of course here you have Trump. and we're looking at a lot of these numbers. And so you would think that this would be enough to push Mikey Sherrill over the top, if nothing else. I do know that there are progressive operatives in some others that are a little concerned about the margin

and would have preferred a more dynamic candidate in Mikey Sheryl. Her resume is pristine, Navy veteran attorney. There is nothing wrong to say about her, but she is a part of this internal Democratic Party, debate of do we go bold and populous or do we go center-left and suburban? And so the margin here, figuring she wins, which is more likely than not, the margin here is going to be something to watch because it's going to have a lot of influence on how Democrats nationally interpret what's going on with their party. I will say Republicans are more optimistic than

you might think, given everything that's happening in Washington. Yeah, Republicans, Katty, seem to be fairly optimistic that they do have a shot in New Jersey, in part because they think Mikey Sherrill's not run a good campaign. You never know how it ends up. Maybe she wins by 7, 8, 9, and suddenly she's a genius. That's usually how campaigns work. In Virginia, of course, you have Abigail Spanberger, who, for now, again, polls mean absolutely nothing, but it looks like she's moved out to a double-digit lead. and she got some help as well as Mikey Cheryl from Barack Obama yesterday. Let's take a look at a couple of those clips. Let's face it, our country and our politics are in a pretty dark place right now. It's hard to know where to start because every day this White House offers up a French batch of

lawlessness and recklessness and mean-spiritedness and just plain craziness. For ordinary families, cause haven't gone down, they've gone up, partly thanks to this shambolic terror policy. Young people trying to get a start in life are having a tougher time than ever finding a job. Entree-level hiring is down 16% from last year. Hundreds of thousands of federal employees, including a lot of people here in Virginia, have lost their jobs to pay for those billionaire tax cuts.

Mikey's opponent has now run for governor three times in a row. I mean, I believe in persistence. But at a certain point, so three times in a row, other two times he lost. So this time, his strategy is to suck up to the Republicans in Washington. So Donald Trump called Mikey's opponent 100% MAGA. Not a great endorsement. May not help. May not help right now.

And by the way, that was, of course, the president on Saturday. Chances are very good yesterday. He was watching the Bears win in thrilling fashion against the Bengals. So, yeah, so that was on Saturday. But you know, Caddy, listening to Barack Obama, of course, he hits all the right notes, affordability, young Americans just not being able to find jobs. And in Virginia, federal employees being fired. And Donald Trump, strangely enough, as if there's not an election.

going on in Virginia tomorrow? Donald Trump bragging over the past several weeks that he was going to put Russ Vaught out there to fire more federal employees and laughed, called him Darth Vader, seemed to take great joy in Virginia residents who were federal employees being fired from their jobs are being forced to work without pay while Congress, of course, gets paid while not working. So talk about what you've seen. I know you follow Virginia politics fairly closely. What are you seeing in the Spanberger race? First of all, having Barack Obama up there, of course, is that kind of bit of sweet moment for all Democrats, because Democrats are on a constant hunt for the next Barack Obama, it feels like at the moment, even for the 28 race.

Virginia, Abigail Spanberger looks like she's in a better position than she was a couple of weeks ago. She's run a campaign that is relentlessly pivoting back to the economy. She's tried to get out into the rural areas of the state. And Virginia's this just weird mixture of northern Virginia, which is basically solid blue Democrats, a lot of immigrants who live just across the Potomac from Washington, D.C. But then you've got large sections of the state that are much more conservative in a lot of farming areas.

And she's made an effort to get out to those farming areas to talk to them about how the tariffs are hurting them because we know American farmers are being hit by even the Treasury Secretary is being hit, apparently, and his soybean farming. So she's made that effort, and I think it's paid up, and you've seen it in the, poor thing. And you've seen it in the polls just in the last week, how she seems to have pulled ahead. I'd be very surprised if Abigail Spanberger didn't win, but I think one of the interesting things to watch, both in Virginia and New Jersey, and even in New York City, is going to be to dissect the returns

and see what's the polling like? How many people went from the Hispanic community, Hispanic voters, and from young voters? because those are the two voting groups where Donald Trump has lost the most support in the course of this year. So if they turn out in big numbers for the Democrats in New Jersey and in Virginia, particularly in New Jersey where there's a big Hispanic population, but in Virginia as well, I think that will be a lot of comfort to Democrats going into the midterms next year. If they can get those groups, bring them back from their Trump vote in 24. And on the other side, given everything that's...

it's been in the headlines over the next year. If Republicans hold their numbers with Hispanic voters, that will be deeply worrying for Democratic candidates and Democratic strategists moving forward and will suggest that this is more of a generational shift. We'll get the first glimmers of that after tomorrow night. I want to ask you that, Dave Drucker, though, there's some weird cross currents going on in Virginia right now. You've got a Republican in gubernatorial candidate that Donald Trump has not come out and endorsed yet. So that obviously is not going to help her. You have a Democratic Attorney General candidate who said the most heinous things in text messages and on the phone a couple of years ago. In my opinion,

my opinion, and only he shouldn't even be in this race right now because of those disqualifying remarks, but he is. So there are those cross currents going on and then speak, if you will, to the fact, something that John Lemire's been talking about for some time. We've had Donald Trump obviously very active overseas and very active online, but he didn't get out in campaign for the one big beautiful bill or whatever they call it, the thing that gave monopolists and billionaires unprecedented tax cuts while slashing health care for working Americans. And he hasn't been out campaigning on the trail for any candidates this. time. So I'm curious, how's that going to impact that Virginia race and maybe even the New Jersey

race? Yeah, really good questions. The president, you know, even though his numbers at this point in the election cycle are better than they were at the same point in his first presidency is still at least a little bit toxic, if not very toxic. Anywhere, you're going to have a majority of Democratic voters showing up to vote. So the whole ballgame in many instances becomes independent voters. Because what Republicans need is what happened to them in 2022, right? In 2022, President Obama's numbers were horrible. The national atmosphere was not good for Democrats. They still won independence by two points. That's why the midterm election in 2022 was not a disaster by any stretch. They actually gained a Senate seat.

increase their majority. And so I think what we're looking for in New Jersey and Virginia as Harbinger's is where does that independent vote go? And Trump is a non-factor. In some ways, you have to give Trump a little bit of credit here in that, you know, normally he wants to insert himself. And then he can say later, hey, I tried to help. You didn't want my help. This proves you should have taken my help. Titterrelli has taken him up on it, even though Trump hasn't been in New Jersey. He has embraced Trump. Winsom Sears has done things a lot differently. But Trump's has stayed out of it because Republicans don't want him in there. He's not helpful. And what we're seeing, and people on the ground in New Jersey were saying this

yesterday, particularly on the Democratic side, but it's just true of our politics, Joe. These aren't local races anymore by and large, right? They're just not. And not because of the government shut down or anything else. These are nationalized races where people put on their jerseys. And the way the campaigns have approached these races is we have to maximize and squeeze every last drop of turnout from our side as we can. And then hope independence just find the opposition, something they can't support. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. My argument had been several weeks ago, maybe a month or two ago, that Democrats should ignore Donald Trump and start talking about affordability and start talking about these other issues. The fact that

Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spamberger are tying their candidate to their opponents to Donald Trump means they're seeing that voters don't feel the way I, you know, I'm thinking, which is this is a referendum on Donald Trump. And so that's why you're seeing Donald Trump in just about every ad. And Trump is going to be appearing. On the Democrats side, you're seeing Donald Trump. The Republicans aren't openly embracing him on the campaign trail at the end, but Democrats sure are trying to tie their own. opponents doing? The president is going to be doing two tele rallies tonight. Teller rallies. Okay. That'll get the kids excited. All right, David Drucker, thank you.

His latest piece for Bloomberg entitled The Perverse Incentives Fueling This Long Shutdown. It's available to read online right now. And still ahead on morning, Joe, how politics and fear vanquished America's Justice Department, Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist. Carol Lenig, an investigative reporter, Aaron C. Davis. join us with their new book. And a reminder of the Morning Joe podcast is available each weekday featuring our full conversations and analysis.

You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. We get things it's okay to use the Justice Department to go after as political opponents. Hey, wait, wait, don't boom. Vote. So we've got a president who replaces career prosecutors

with loyalists who'll do what he wants, and now he's telling them what he wants is for them to hand over millions of taxpayer dollars that he had to pay in expenses for previously violating the law. Wow. No, some more former President Barack Obama from over the weekend, calling out President Trump's use of the U.S. Justice Department for seemingly for political retribution. You know, he also was bringing up the fact that Donald Trump wanted the Justice Department of paying hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah.

Something that Ben Shapiro said on this podcast, I believe it was last week, said it was an impeachable offense if he did that. I mean, even his supporters are saying, you can't do this stuff. Again, it just, it all adds up. Yeah. It all adds up to a political mess for Republicans. Joining us now, MSNBC Senior Investigative Reporter Carol Lennox, an investigative reporter for the Washington Post, Aaron C. Davis. They are co-authors of a new book out tomorrow entitled Injustice,

How Politics and Fear Vanquished America's Justice. Justice Department. And Jonathan LaMere, you have the first question. Good morning, guys. Congratulations on the book. Carol, let's start with this. There were so many Democrats, but even wider political observers who thought, well, these legal peril that Donald Trump faced after his first term would potentially send him to prison, but at the very least should end his political career. We now know, of course, that wasn't the case. He has even said privately. He thinks that New York trial was the best thing that could have happened to him. But you've got new reporting here in the book on just how the Biden Justice Department approached these

cases surrounding Trump. Talk to us about some what you found. You know, what Aaron and I found an injustice was like a tragedy in three acts. And the second act is the Biden administration and its desire to turn the page. Attorney General Merrick Garland, well-intentioned, incredibly respected jurist, doesn't go to the Supreme Court, but becomes the Attorney General for Joe Biden. And what he concludes is we have to stay away from looking partisan. We have to do something different than what Donald Trump did and make sure that this institution is above politics. But the problem was it delayed looking directly at the evidence that you all saw and knew that he was engaged in a crime to overturn a free and fair election. Yeah, it drove me crazy how long they took and how long Garland took.

he was being so hyper-careful, which is so ironic when you look at what's going on right now in the Justice Department. It's worse than I could have possibly imagined. As somebody who spent the formative years of my career in a criminal courtroom doing state and local crimes as the elected DA in Kansas City working with the feds, I want you to talk about what is going on the District of Columbia right now. I don't think most Americans understand that it is the only jurisdiction in the country that handles violent crime, federal jurisdiction, because violent crime is handled by state prosecutors across America, not the feds. The FBI doesn't get a 911 call when there's a murder. The local police departments do. And in D.C., those cases have always gone

to a state system. And now, Piro is trying to shoehorn low-level state crimes into federal crimes with years in the penitentiary for stuff that in most jurisdictions in the country would get you maybe six months in the county jail. Well, you know, what is happening there? Well, I mean, a lot of the justice that we're seeing in the U.S. attorney's offices, especially in D.C., but also other big deal ones, New York, Newark, there is an effort to do justice for PR. You know, a lot of the U.S. attorneys that Donald Trump has chosen are moving to

you know, what's going to get me on TV and what's going to please Donald Trump. And it's not prosecuting corrupt public officials, right? What we learned was Aaron and I, they eviscerated the public integrity section. They eviscerated places where we usually focused our energies, corporate fraud, people that are losing tons of money, malfeasance, all sorts of teams like this we learned are getting gutted. And Donald Trump is doing that gleefully through his lieutenants like Gene Pro. Katty Kay is with us and has the next question. Erin, talk to us a little bit about what you found around the Mar-a-Lago documents case and

just how the case took so long, but also the decision, the fateful decision it turned out, to have the case tried in Florida and what the thinking was that went into that. I mean, it seemed like now in retrospect, it's easy to say that was such a mistake. They should have done it in D.C. and they should have done it faster. but why did they think they could do it down in Florida and get a fair hearing? Yeah, we go deep into that area because it is such a pivotal moment. You know, that night after the raid, the agents and the prosecutors are on a conference call and they say, you know, what do we do now?

You know, we've never encountered, we never expected to see this many documents down there. And the assistant attorney general at the moment, Matthew Olson turns to the kind of encyclopedia inside the Justice Department for classified documents cases. And she says, if it was anybody else, we would arrest them tomorrow morning. And so this was a huge moment inside where a lot of law enforcement, law enforcement that usually leans conservative felt compelled to go forward and investigate Donald Trump with everything that the Department of Justice had. And then when it did get to the sprint area of going to Jack Smith, Jack Smith realized that, you know, so much of the heart of that investigation. So much of the documents that were hidden, the boxes that were moved at the

behest of Donald Trump in the days before those rooms were searched, that was down in Florida. And that was why Jackson had to happen down there. If it ever got appealed, and if there was overturning of that case, that that would be the worst thing that would happen for the Justice Department. People inside disagreed said, you just have to get a conviction first on the things we know that were done wrong. Dave. Can you talk about what Operation Arctic Frost was, because if you cover Republicans now. They're asking for judicial impeachments, further investigations. This is the greatest scandal since Watergate times times 10. What actually was happening? What was a justification for that? There is a chapter in the book titled Arctic Frost because it really is, you know,

where this whole thing kind of starts to come together under, before Jack Smith gets appointed. But, you know, what we're seeing now, all of these little bits and pieces of, you know, this subpoena and that subpoena of a Republican congressman, they were all part of a plan of a investigation that really had taken a long, long time to bake to get to that point. You know, the Attorney General was very reluctant to go straight at these folks. They felt that when they did have to go to look at them, they were needed to see who was involved with that decision on January 6th to put the rioters in that position. So, you know, if you take any little slice of evidence right now, any little slice of investigative

step, it's going to look wrong. The book puts it all in context, I think, of why they were there and doing that stuff at that moment. I'm curious, Carol, because I've heard the president say that it was the five cases or the four or the six cases that actually worked to his benefit the most. And his belief is if there had only been one case against him, like perhaps the documents case, he sort of, I'd say he jokes. He's not really even joking.

He says, it probably would have gotten me if it was just one case, but they were spread out all over the place. Did you find other prosecutors coming to the same conclusion as Donald Trump that there was too much for the American people to digest? And there was this Manhattan case, which I will tell you, I still don't really understand the legal theory behind it. There was the massive, you know, fines coming out of the New York State case where you sit there going, okay, is that a little excessive? Which judges ended up saying it, was, if you found Democrats or prosecutors that said, yeah, if they just focused on that case on the documents had gotten a fair jurisdiction, a judge that actually was interested in interpreting

the law, then they would have been, you know, they probably would have gotten Donald Trump in a conviction that mattered. Joe, you really couldn't sum up the book better in terms of some of our inside details here, because prosecutors who are conservative, generally, and I don't mean Republican, I mean just conservative about pursuing the best cases, were panicking inside. And we learned they were kind of freaking out that this New York case, they didn't feel was that important and that strong compared to the classified documents case was going first. They didn't feel even that the New York case was as strong and unprecedented and as important as the election interference case. When have we ever had a president try to use

the office to stay in power. Richard Nixon. That's the last time. And people were also nervous, even inside Jack Smith's team, Joe, about going to Florida. There was a guy we learned later, a guy named Dave Raskin, a very, very senior experienced national security prosecutor in the Southern District of New York, who's now working on the classified documents case. And in a hallway in the Jack Smith office, he learns they're going to now bring the case in Florida. Jack has decided and he says, you all are effing insane. He's like, we have the best chance to get a fair hearing and an experienced judge in D.C., we have a legal, reasonable basis. You know about jurisdiction, Claire. We have a reasonable basis to bring this case in D.C. There's no, there's no bar against it.

and Jack's decision ultimately, you know, it collapses the case. It's not his fault in one way. And because Eileen Cannon made the decision she made, but that's what happened. So every single one of your points is dead on. The new book, Injustice, How Politics and Fear Vanquished America's Justice Department. It's out tomorrow. Co-authors, Carol Lenig and Aaron C. Davis, thank you so much for coming on the show. And congratulations on this book.

And Dave Weigel, before we let you go, what are you expecting to see tomorrow in New Jersey, New York, and Virginia? What are you looking for early in the evening? I was in all three places over the last week. You do see Democratic enthusiasm. Like Caddy, I'm kind of looking for the turnout from non-white voters. How many non-white voters that voted for Trump in 2024 took a chance in him are not coming back? I'm looking at that. But Democrats I talked to were optimistic.

The energy I saw Democratic rallies was big. I was not seeing a conversion to those 20-24 Trump voters into full-time Republican voters. So that's the first early in the night looking for turnout from more Asian communities in Virginia and Loudoun County, looking for, looking for, Pesite County in New Jersey, those sorts of places. Because we know the suburban voters, the no-kings voters, they're going to come out. They already did. They probably already voted as soon as they could. Yeah.

Yeah, they voted it a couple of weeks ago. And finally, the Trump factor, you certainly see it in Democratic ads. Mikey Sherrill has a quote where her opponent says, Donald Trump's, I agree with absolutely everything that Donald Trump has done. And I looked at that date going, was that from like 2017? No, that was like last month. Yeah. So obviously Democrats are using Donald Trump against Republican candidates.

are Republican candidates in their ads are on the stop saying I'm Donald Trump's guy or are they staying away from him? On the stump, a little bit less than they were. And this is a change for Chittarelli. He ran in 2021. He distanced himself from Donald Trump. Democrats tried to bring up January 6 and Chittarelli's role at a rally that was supporting, challenging the election. He backed away completely different this time. And that's part of the issue that Chittarelli did a 180 on whether he's a Trump supporter.

that has been a weakness for him. That opened up an issue for Cheryl when Trump threatens the gateway funding. Cheryl says she'll fight Trump. Chidorelli doesn't have a good answer. In Virginia, I think Trump still has a grudge because Winsom Roll Sears was saying in 2022 and he was at a low ebb even after the Mar-a-Lago raid, or Mar-Lago search, I should say, that the party should move on from Donald Trump. He has not forgotten that. He's not used her name since then, but came up earlier in the show. Very telling. Joe Biden was campaigning in these states. at this point in his presidency. Barack Obama was campaigning in these states, even when the candidates were not in the advantage. Trump is doing a lot of other extraneous things besides

having rallies in these states. That tells you how smart the bet Republicans made on going full maggot in these elections was. Semaphores, Dave Weigel. Thank you so much for your insights this morning. We appreciate it. And coming up, we're going to go through the big weekend in sports, including an incredible game, seven of the world series. Pablo Tori is here to help us break it all down. And a reminder, you can subscribe to our relaunched show newsletter by scanning the QR code that's on your screen or by clicking on MSNBC.com slash the tea spilled by Morning Joe. We're back in just a moment.

That's Diggs, and looking for his first catch. May, steps up, fires, looking for Douglas, got him, to Mario Douglas, still on his feet at the 20, cuts it back, stumbling around, but still going. Robinson's in the back, first down in 10, and the call here, Poonie with a block, and he's going to take it in for the touchdown. Five coach turnovers today, yet here comes Indianapolis.

Jones, intercepted, Joey Porter, Jr. First down, Herbert going to the end so for Johnston. He's got it. McCarthy, in trouble again. Uh-oh, looking, thinking about running. Get a try for it. McCarthy is a touchdown, Minnesota. Alan stands right in the pocket.

Bines the man in space. And here he goes, Kincaid. Love off the fake, taking another deep shot into double coverage, underthrown to Trayvon Merrig. Interception by Jordan Love, a rare one at that. And here comes Merrick, into Packer territory. From the 49, Stafford, players downfield, what is caught, touchdown.

If this ball is completed or the clock is running. Williams slings and Williams. Loveland, bows off his man. He's going to score. Oh, man. Oh, the pain in Cincinnati. The pain to be a Bengals fan over these last two weeks. I mean, two of the most painful losses I can think of an NFL franchise having in a very long time.

Those are some of the biggest plays by winning teams across the NFL yesterday, including the game winner for the Chicago Bears and a 47-42 victory over the Bengals that featured three touchdowns in the last two minutes of the contest. Meanwhile, in Vegas, the Jaguars escaped with a one-point win over the hapless Raiders,

thanks in part to the longest made field goal in league history. Cam Little drilled a 68-yard kick to put Jacksonville on the board in the second quarter. Of course, there was obsidazium put in that football, so there will likely be an asterisk in Canton. But the Jags went on to beat the Raiders, 30 to 29 in overtime, as they make two references that 98% of the audience have no idea what I'm talking about. Now, it's going to land over Maryland. The Washington commanders are just looking terrible hosting the Seattle Seahawks on Sunday night football.

Seattle quarterback Sam Darnel didn't throw an incomplete pass the entire first half going 16 for 16 for them. Touchdowns gave the Seahawks a crushing 31 to 7 lead at the break. they easily beat the commanders 38 to 14, but it gets much worse for Washington. Also, a lot of question asked when why Jayden Daniels was out playing football when they were down as badly as they were. Jayden Daniels left in the fourth quarter with an injury to his non-throwing arm. ESPN reports that he dislocated his left elbow and MRIs expected today to confirm the diagnosis and help determine a recovery timeline.

I'm afraid it may be a while. Let's bring in. The host of Pablo Tori finds out. out of Metal Arc Media, MSNBs, a contributor to Pobletori. Pablo, there are a lot of fascinating football stories, NFL stories to get to. Let's first, though, talk about what Mike Barnacle calls, and Barnacle's seen a few of them. Mm-hmm. What Mike Barnacle calls the greatest world series he's ever seen,

and that's the one that ended in a heartbreaking fashion for the Blue Jays on Saturday night. And I would say in heartbreaking fashion for every baseball fan that wants to see the MLB avoid a strike. I mean, I think this is just two Dodgers wins with a grotesque way that they're deferring salaries. I'm serious. I mean, they give Otani a $700 million like a contract and they don't have to report it for six years.

I just think that means a strike is coming, and that's unfortunate. You talk about that, but also just talk about incredible, baseball played over the course of seven games. Yeah, look, the Dodgers are good for it, Joe. They're good for it. You can trust them to pay you back.

They got it. They got the money. The reason, though, that this World Series really resonated to me is because it's a reminder. Like, baseball can be regional for 162 games in which you're all sort of like siloed in your own corners of the country. But when the spotlight's on, you get reminded why you fell in love with the sport. A clockless sport where truly anything is infinitely possible, including Miguel Rojas,

by the way, being the guy to join Bill Maseroski in terms of a winner take-all, end of the game, game-tying or go-ahead home run scenario. We just don't see it like this. And so pound for pound, minute for minute, second for second with the clock potentially running forever, as we saw happen for 18 innings, not so long ago, you get a series. just of one classic, but multiple ones. And John and I were just reminiscing about this. Like, baseball at its best is the best sporting experience you can have in the postseason because you get it like this. You get a whole new testament of games, it seems like, that can stretch it on forever. And we wish that it did in this case.

Yeah, I mean, this was such an extraordinary game culminating in a remarkable series. Of course, we ate the 18 inning game in game three. We had Shohei Otani. last night, on Saturday night, short rest starting the game, wasn't great, gives up the early home run, Dodgers down, 3-0. But Joe, there are so many storylines here to get through, you know, the blue, after the, even after the Rojas home run, Blue Jays, they were two outs away. They were two outs away from the World Series. They then load the bases with one out in the bottom of the night.

You get that bang, bang, bang play at home. Out by a fleet. The runner at third didn't take much of a lead. you have, you know, the crazy collision in the outfield. The Jays had their chances, and then Will Smith, the hero, the two heroes at the end of the game, Joe, Will Smith the home run, and then Yamamoto on zero days' rest, giving them two and two-thirds scoreless out of the pen. Remarkable. Three wins in this series for him. Well, and how many great stories, Pablo, out of Toronto, and those fans, my God,

I'm still in mourning and will be in mourning over this game for a very long time. But Bobichette coming back just battered and broken, hardly able to run, hits a three-run, home run. You've got George Springer. It's really, seriously, it reminds me of the natural in the final scene where Robert Redford swings. And every time he does, he clutches his side, every time George Springer was swinging, the guy was grabbing his side until he'd do something like this. It was really one of the gutsiest performances I've ever seen. Vlad, there are no words. Like, this, again, I keep, can't believe I'm saying it.

This Toronto Blue Jays team really stole my heart. As Barnacles says, they do all the little things right. They play baseball the way it's supposed to be played. And it's a shame they came up one inning short. Yeah, we spent the whole season. I do enjoy anything, any team that can warm Mike Barnacle's icy heart, right? like we're looking up though the whole season we talk about the AL East and it's about us the Yankees in the Red Sox and the whole time the Blue Jays were this team that were not only better than

we thought they're better than the entire sport thought and you mentioned the young players look it's it's it's the youth movement it's the fact that this game by the way was in Toronto there is a particular kind of trauma that is visited upon you when you have a world series that You haven't won in like 30 years, and you have it at home. And it's the difference maybe between running through home plate versus sliding. You know, if you do the physics of it, maybe that's the microscopic difference. And, you know, if you are a Blue Jays fan and you think we were the better team and we lost, typically I say, shut up.

I don't want to hear that. But I get it. I get why you might feel that way, given how heavy a face. favorite the Dodgers were over the entire sport, as they are going to be, by the way. As a Yankees fan, I can tell you, they're going to be that. They're going to be the modern dynasty for years to come. I don't know how it ends, given the financial advantage plus the strategic scouting advantage. Where Japan, by the way, Joe, Japan is the Dodgers farm system.

I have never seen it before. And yet, that's the case, too. And it's, yeah, it's just going to keep coming. And next year, they're going to get more great players from Japan. And I will say this will stay with Blue Jay fans for generations. I still remember, you guys probably don't know the reference, but I think this was the greatest world series since the 1991 World Series, when the Atlanta Braves I grew up with, who would lose 100 games a year, lost in an extraordinary world series to the twins,

a seven-game world series. I still remember Lonnie Smith being frozen between second and third base because he got played on a ball that went to the wall and he got frozen if he had not gotten frozen he gets home the Braves win the World Series so yeah they will they will be remembering there was 91 so it's

well because it's a it's a scar on my heart for years so anyway anyway amazing so let's go to the NFL yesterday I mean what can you say the lions we've been talking about this meh season

the lions lose the Chiefs lose again I think they have more losses now than Auburn. You just go down the list. Claire, Claire's making noises over here, Joe. You're insulting her dynasty. It starts to go to the computer if that's all right. Do we have the computer?

The system's operating today. I was worried. I was worried that, you know, the data center wasn't operating. No, the data center is operating. There are towns right now in the Midwest going without power, but we got our top five, and here it is. Number five, the Patriots, who I think of won six in a row. Number four, the Lions with way too many losses for as good a team as they are.

Three, the Broncos, I don't even say it, but it's true. Two, the Eagles, and number one, the bills. Claire McCaskill, I don't see the Chiefs on there. What do you think? Well, here's the thing. We always let Buffalo win during the regular season, and then we beat them. in the playoffs. They beat us every time in the regular season and they're 0 for four in the AFC championship. So we play the Broncos twice. A couple of weeks from now is our first

outing against them and then again later in the season. We sweep the Broncos and guess what? We beat the Buffalo again in the AFC championship. It's boring and I know the rest of the country is sick of it, but it ain't over. Trust me, it ain't over. Well, it's certainly not. And Pablo, we talk about this all the time. The Chiefs, I mean, two years ago, especially, had a terrible first, a terrible, let me say, a terribly uninspiring first half of the season. Rice came on as wide receiver, and then they started winning. And Claire's exactly right. I mean, we may be looking at the two best teams in football right now, just because everybody else is, I mean, Paradis made everybody else so blah. But I think Claire, Claire's circle

the two games on the calendar that matter the most in us figuring out how good the cheats are, that's their two games against the Broncos. If they win both of those games, then, you know what, you and Claire will be proven right. For some reason, Bronco sweep. If the Broncos sweep that series, then, you know, then maybe it's a new era out west. If they split, then we're just as confused as ever. Yeah, I find myself, of course, now the second biggest chiefs accolate at the table, but it's true. It's true. Five straight regular season wins the bills have against the chiefs. The chiefs, of course, have beaten the bills four straight times since the 2020 playoffs. And by the way, just for the record, here's my computer, as always on the TV listings.

Oh, look at this. We agree on the first two, right? So the bills and Eagles feel right to me. But then it's, to me, the Rams, which you guys just totally, insulted. Rams are a good team. Yeah, look, they move the Saints, and maybe the Saints are just whatever. They're just the chalk outline, generally speaking, but that's still a win, six and two. And then it's just everything else. There's like a bunch of, I don't know if you can zoom in, but it's Chiefs, Bucks, Colts, Broncos, Packers, Patriots, John Lamere's Patriots, Cahawks there.

Like, it's all just a, it's a bunch of stuff with the Chiefs still right there, is my point. I'm here to tell you that, of course, the regular season is merely prelude to a thing that, yeah, Claire McCaskill tends to celebrate every year for a reason. So, you know. Well, I mean, we'll see what happens. We also have the Ravens who also have lost a lot of games. And there's still a odds on favorite to win their conference. Yeah, because Lamar is back.

John Lemire, we have to talk about your Patriots. They won six games in a row night. Broke once again, my falcons heart because my falcons don't know how to win a football game. But man, this, this, I've got to say the two big surprises for me coming out of this weekend is just that the Patriots keep winning, and you have the Carolina Panthers who were just absolutely dismal last year, beat the Packers in Lambo. They are now five and four. I mean, these are two teams on the rise. Yeah, no, they are. Claire McCask and I were both

bemoaning that the Packers lost, killed both of our survivor pools. Just when you thought it was safe. Right. Yeah, I mean, it's sort of a microcosm of just how mediocre in many ways this season is. There's no great team. And the Packers looked like they were surging. They take a day, they lose humbling in a humbling fashion at home. We had Daniel Jones come back to Earth yesterday. The Colts lose in Pittsburgh. And yes, seven and two. Colts still seven and two, Broncos, seven and two. And now the Patriots, Joe, they've played before, as you remember. This game won't be thought of in quite as legendary terms. But it was another win for a Pats team that's simply taking advantage of a pretty soft schedule. It's going to get harder.

They go to Tampa next week. But Drake May continues to make the throws. he needs to make. They've won six in a row. And in a year like this, with no obvious great team, sure, you start to wonder, like, hey, could you get hot at the right time, make a run? I have no idea what the answer to this question is, Pablo, so I will ask you, so we'll have you trapped on tape forevermore answering it. We're halfway through this season, what teams are going to be playing in the Super Bowl? I'm sticking with the, Joe, I'm sticking with the cheese and I'm sticking with the Eagles. I'm sticking with the Eagles. Look, the bills right now, they deserve this spot.

But I am somebody who sees the NFL season, kind of like what I used to hope we could consider the stock market, which is a really long game. The fundamentals of the Chiefs economy are strong. They remain so. And the Eagles, by the way, they being on a buy, you know, I think that's, they're just waiting. They're just waiting for the second half of this season to really pick up. And so I feel comfortable there when Mika is also, I think, already feeling, feeling a little like maybe she's heard me give this take 50,000 times. So fair enough. Yeah, I would say, though, Claire, if past his prelude, I can look at the chiefs and go, yeah, okay, that makes sense.

The chiefs always stumble or walk slowly out of the gate. And then they end up winning the Super Bowl. I can't say that about the Eagles. Two years ago, they were, what, 11 and 1, and they had one of the worst endings in franchise history. last year. They were strong start to finish. I can't figure this Eagles team out. So with that is a prelude, what are your Super Bowl picks halfway through the season? This will go down in history as the shortest answer Claire McCaskill ever gave. What Pablo said. Okay. John, what about you? All right. Well, I don't want to certainly do that. And I don't like

to agree with Pablo if I can help it. Let's go with. I think of your time, John. I think the pads are still a little bit away. I don't think they're there yet. I think the Eagles will get there, but I'm going to go, I'll go Bill's Eagles. I think this is finally the year they slay the dragon. But maybe it's because the chiefs get picked off by somebody else along the way, so they don't have to play, you know, Kansas City again, when it matters the most. Well, I mean, I think Kansas City Eagles is a smart pick.

I'm going to say right now, Broncos Eagles. Okay. Coming up, we're going to get back to the optics of President Trump's opulent. Gatsby party, while millions of Americans now have to worry about paying for food. Morning Joe is back in just a moment.