Morning Joe - Trump meets with world leaders in Egypt to recognize ceasefire deal in Gaza

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

Trump meets with world leaders in Egypt to recognize ceasefire deal in Gaza Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This is the day that people across the region and around the world have been working, striving, hoping, and praying for. They have done things over the last month that I think were really unthinkable. Nobody thought this could happen. With the historic agreement, we've just signed, those prayers of millions have finally been answered. As you know, the hostages have been returned, and further work goes on. having to do with the, sadly to say, bodies. Together we've achieved what everybody said was impossible. At long last, we have peace in the Middle East.

And it's a very simple expression. Peace in the Middle East. And we've heard it for many years, but nobody thought it could ever get there. And now we're there. President Trump in Egypt yesterday with world leaders celebrating the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. We'll recap that historic summit.

Plus, we'll bring you the emotional reunions in Israel yesterday as the remaining living hostages were released, seeing their families and loved ones for the first time in more than two years. We'll also take a look at what comes next for Gaza and the Palestinian people. Meanwhile, in Washington, D.C., speaker Mike Johnson says we could see the longest shutdown ever because he's, He won't negotiate with Democrats until they back off their demands on extending health care tax credits. We'll explain that. And then as NBC Justice and Intelligence Correspondent, Ken Delanian, joins us with new insight on President Trump's hand-picked U.S. attorney in Virginia. Good morning and welcome to morning, Joe. It is Tuesday, October 14th.

Well, it's, and wow, what a day yesterday, New York Times? headline talks about hostages and prisoners freed with Gaza's path uncleared. The Wall Street Journal, Willie, talking about how Donald Trump is hailing the new Middle East. This is incredible photos there. The Daily News, finally home. What a beautiful, beautiful shot. It's a beautiful shot with one of the hostages released after two years now, you know, almost to the day, a week or so after. That's where you start with the human stories of these people coming home. Some of them did not come home. We're waiting for the remains of some of the hostages. But to see those 20 people who, as we know from interviewing some of the hostages, even last week, we had Ellie who's written a

book about his time in captivity, just describing what it was like on that day for those two years, knowing all they've endured, and that the hopes and prayers of their loved ones, their relatives, as their country of the world were answered by the term yesterday. Just extraordinary images that I don't think many people thought would ever say. Yeah, for sure. And with us, we have columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post, David Ignatius, senior writer for the dispatch and a columnist for Bloomberg opinion, David Drucker, and New York Times opinion columnist David French.

Leaders from more than 20 countries yesterday met in a coastal Egyptian, resort town hours after Amos released the 20 remaining living Israeli hostages. The summit was designed to support the ceasefire, brokered by the United States, to bring an end to the fighting between Israel and Hamas. It was also designed to help establish a long-term vision for governing and rebuilding Gaza. Notably, President Trump met yesterday with Mahmoud Abbas, leader of the Palestinian authority. A boss was denied entry to the United States last month to attend the UN General Assembly. Trump also met with the president and of the host country. Trump said Egypt played a critical role in negotiating with the Hamas terrorist group and that Hamas's respect for Egypt's

government was key in negotiations. Leaders in attendance signed a document in support of the ceasefire according to the declaration, signatory. Tories pledged to, quote, pursue a comprehensive vision of peace, security, and shared prosperity in the region. President Trump spoke about the agreement afterwards. The momentous breakthrough that we're here to celebrate tonight is more than the end of the war in Gaza. It's with God's help. It'll be the new beginning for an entire beautiful Middle East. From this moment forward, we can build a region that's strong and stable and prosperous and united in rejecting the path of terror once and for all. We want to get rid of the

terror and get on to other things. There are many other things in life. It's so good. David Ignatius, of course, it's going to be everybody's job. And some people are already doing it about asking what's next. We need to constantly be asking what's next. How will this peace agreement move forward and ceasefire move into a new Middle East? But first, let's look back at you. Yesterday, just an extraordinary day, and unlike I think any day I've ever seen, certainly coming out of the Middle East. Joe, it was a joyous day of images of people celebrating genuine, deep happiness at seeing their relatives home, seeing Palestinian prisoners return.

On both sides, you saw the just unmistakable joy of the day. It was a day of extravagant rhetoric from Prime Minister Netanyahu, from President Trump, from all the people at the ceremonies in the two countries. If we're going to be cold-hearted and analytical, we need to say that the talk about a golden age for the region and the new dawn after 3,000 years is overstated. What we have is the first phase of what could be a comprehensive deal for peace. in Gaza, leading the way to a real Israeli-Palestinian agreement and peace. But we don't have that yet.

What was implemented was phase one, phase two, which contains all the most difficult issues, the disarmament of Hamas, the establishment of governance by technocratic Palestinians who can take power away from Hamas. That's still to come. lots of signs on the ground in the last day, that that's going to be difficult. Hamas still controls nearly half of Gaza. There's fighting between Hamas and gangs and clans that are in Gaza. And so that's going to need real help from the U.S. and from Israel to move into the next stage

that we really might begin to call a golden edge. But to your basic point, Joe, all those leaders gather. standing behind President Trump reminded us of the power of the United States to make a difference in the world. If anybody ever questions that, they had clear evidence yesterday. We are indispensable. So David Ignatius, again, to you on this and about how we got here, we heard praise from presidents Biden and Clinton, bipartisan praise for Donald Trump and his administration on getting the hostages home. As Joe said, it was a moment a lot of people didn't think would come that Hamas would give up its leverage of holding those hostages, the 20 that came home yesterday.

So in short, how did we get to a point that a lot of people thought we wouldn't get to? So, Willie, this essential process was mediation through countries that had had contact with Hamas, both the leadership that was based in Qatar and some of the Hamas leaders on the ground in Gaza. The role played by gutter as an intermediary was especially important after it was attacked, in part because of that mediation role, in an Israeli missile strike last month, infuriating President Trump. And that was one of the momentum changes that made Trump determined to push towards a deal. I think, Willie, to be fair, the reason we got to the final deal that we was celebrated yesterday was a decision to decouple the immediate part, the ceasefire and the release of hostages from the harder part, which is disarmament and governance.

Steve Whitcroft, President Trump's emissary, counseled by the Qataris and others, decided It was just too hard to get Hamas agreement to its own surrender so they would hold all that in advance. And I think that may come back to haunt them. A final point is that, again, with the Qataris pushing, Turkey, which has been a bitter enemy of Israel, was brought in as a kind of co-guarantor. It's a big change in the region's balance of power. Prime Minister Netanyahu and Turkish President Erdogan, you know, normally don't talk to each other. But there was Erdogan standing beside Trump, with Trump lavishly praising him as one of the key architects.

So those were the basics. And now we see how good this administration is and follow up and implementation, because this next part is going to be really hard. David, there was a very telling moment where Donald Trump said that he actually got along better with, of the strong men that he was up on stage with and the democratically elected leader, something that many people have been observing for a decade now. But as you saw the president up there with Erdogan from Turkey, with the leaders of Qatari, with support from Egypt, support from the Saudis, support from strong men around the region, it does seem that in a sense that Donald Trump was singular in a sense, and that most other presidents would not have not only

dealt with those leaders the way he did, as aggressively as he did, but to my mind, other presidents probably would not be feared as much as Donald Trump. And as I looked at the assemblage up there, I did understand that a lot of that was going on because people's fear of Donald Trump, the old saying, it's better to be feared than loved. Not something that I've always wanted to see in a leader, but for the purpose of yesterday, where you saw Erdogan meekly to his left and the guitarie leader meekly to his right, the shoe fit there, didn't it? So I think that's a fair point. When Trump says there'll be hell to pay if he doesn't get the deal he's seeking, people tend to believe him that he's prepared to back that up.

And I think the key people working with him were far from democratic. Qatar is not a democracy. He elaborately thanked the Emir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim, as he did, Erdogan, who's been a tough, sometimes anti-democratic leader of Turkey. That was all put aside for the very practical, transactional help that those two leaders and others could give to Trump in getting to where he wanted to be. Again, my only caution would be that he didn't go all the way to the details of his 20-point peace proposal, which I and others thought was pretty comprehensive, a lot of outstanding things in there that aren't yet signed on the dotted line.

That's the only regret today the day after. Well, let's get to the emotion of the day as 20 hostages held captive by Hamas for more than two years were finally reunited with their families and loved ones. Oh, brothers, David and Ariel Kunia were kidnapped on October 7th from their kibbutz along with both of their significant to others. David's wife and Ariel's girlfriend were released by Hamas in previous hostage releases. Al-Qa-Ira-eba-e-a-eba-a-eba-a-eba-ha-eba. Al-Cana Bobat was reunited with his family yesterday, including his mother and later, his five-year-old son. He was taken hostage by Hamas at the Nova Music Festival on October 6th. where nearly 400 Israelis were murdered by Hamas terrorists. Israel released photos of freed hostage.

Avinatan Orr's reunion with his partner, Noah Argomani, who herself was taken captive by Hamas during the October 7th attacks and was released last year. IDF Soldier Matan Ongrest was reunited with his family yesterday. He was abducted on October 7th along with the bodies of soldiers serving in his tank unit. The Jerusalem Post notes, Ungrest was not released in previous deals despite being wounded. Barr Cooperstein was working at the Nova Music Festival as a security guard when he was abducted by Hamas. He was reunited with his family for the first time in over 700 days yesterday.

David French, those images speak for themselves as we watch them. Over these two years, a lot of us have spoken with and interviewed families of these hostages. both on the show and many times in private as well. And while the world has gone on in some ways, and there are other issues that occupy us. It is not for these families every second of every day for the last two years. Their thoughts occupied with the hopes

that they would get to see this day, that they would get to embrace their loved ones again. And for 20 of them yesterday, they got that moment. Unfortunately, many of them did not. But these images are just, take your breath away. Yeah. They really do.

And, you know, one of the things, just watching reunion after reunion yesterday, it was almost too much to see, I mean, just the raw emotion of it all, and just to see this chapter, this horrible, horrible chapter come to an end. And then, you know, when you see the humanity of these families and just the flood of emotion, it's just still stunning to me that we actually had moments in this country and in other countries where people were tearing down their posters, tearing down posters of these people, just absolutely unbelievable stuff. But right now in this moment, you know, I completely hear this idea that we've got a lot more to go. There's

a lot of ground left to trod. We don't know what's going to happen next. We have a ceasefire, not a comprehensive true peace deal, but on this moment, at this time, to just take a moment. moment and say and celebrate with these families and be thankful with these families that you know in a lot of ways what you're watching is you feel like you're watching a resurrection where people who you know at the worst moments they thought they were gone forever are now alive and in their arms it's just absolutely stunning and wonderful to see and and for too long unthinkable that this would ever happen and yes yes these these are the people whose posters were being torn down by extremists in the United States.

Trying to be erased by extremists in the United States. These are the people, the hostages, with their families being released. David Drucker yesterday, of course, was a rare moment over the past 10 years where there was bipartisanship and there was bipartisan. support and an awful lot of Democrats praising President Trump for his work. I think I even saw, I don't think it was tongue in cheek, Don Jr., thanking a Democratic member of Congress for the kind words that he expressed about the hostages being released due in large part to the work of Donald Trump. A rare day in Washington as well. Yeah, very much.

much so. I mean, even President Biden commended President Trump in his statement, at least the one that was released on X. And so you saw a lot of people give Trump the credit that he was due. I thought what was so interesting about the president's accomplishment and even with so much uncertain and whether or not the rest of this peace agreement or this 20-point plan ever gets implemented, what was accomplished today and what we accomplished yesterday and what we saw. saw yesterday was a really big deal that he should be commended for. What I felt was interesting was that he did it because he acted so conventionally. Instead of creating an adversary out of an American ally, he hugged that ally tight. He gave that ally the space and time to

undertake the military action which helped create the diplomacy, the opportunity for diplomacy that ended up bearing fruit. He resisted pressure domestically. He resisted pressure internationally. And when it was time for him, as he decided to pressure Israel to stand down, he had the credibility and the relationship to do so. More importantly, he had the credibility and the support of the Israeli public who liked Donald Trump more than they liked Prime Minister Netanyahu.

And I think it's a – and all the watch. he had a lot of conventional standard negotiating going on on multiple tracks. So rather than fighting with an ally, creating a trade war or a diplomatic war, rather than insulting the allies voters, he creates the space to have the support and leverage to use in this instance. And I think it's a good lesson for the president as he looks to deal. with other crises around the globe, whether it's, you know, China's rising influence in the Asian Pacific or the war in Ukraine instigated by Russia. It shows what the president's capable of when he, in some sense, uses his outside-the-box thinking, but then tries to affect action in

proven typical normal ways. And one of those ways that he did that also, Mika, was he leaned on Jared Kushner, somebody who had spent most of the first term going around the Middle East, making, well, I'll go to David Ignatius really quickly here, making extraordinary advancements with the Abraham Accords. So you had, Donald Trump had somebody who had a better relationship with most of the leaders in the Middle East than anybody else in America. and that allowed him at the right time to sit with the Qataris and say, we're not going to negotiate. Here are the 20 points.

You go to Hamas, we'll go to Israel, let's get this done. Experience matters. And in this case, I know Steve Whitkoff was there, and I'm sure Steve Whitkoff was doing a good enough job. I'm not sure of all the details of that, but I do know that Jared Kushner has been doing this for almost a decade no. Now, in and yes, out of government, and he knows the players there.

And experience makes a difference, doesn't it? Experience is decisive, especially in the Middle East. This, to me, resembled a sort of deal team more than a normal negotiating team that the State Department and the NSC might put together. Jared is now a business person. He has a business person's transactional understanding. of contacts with key players in the Arab world. He's thinking all the time about how to reconstruct Gaza, how to turn it from this absolute mess of ruined buildings

into some place where people can live again. And he also was smart to bring in former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, a person who knows the Middle East, the leaders of the Middle East well. So Trump had a team that, although it wasn't structured in traditional ways, worked easily for him in bringing people together and forming this unusual coalition. Trump also, it should be said, changed his own views, something that he doesn't always do. But he's come a long way from the days when he said Palestinians basically should leave Gaza and will reconstruct it and make it a U.S. run resort area.

We're not there now, thank goodness. and we're at something that seemed to give Palestinians themselves some hope for the future. Still ahead on Morning Joe, President Trump received a lot of praise for this effort to secure a ceasefire deal. But he was also pressed yesterday about what comes next. We'll dig into that question. Plus, the latest on the government shutdown as Speaker Johnson digs in, refusing to hold talks with Democrats. And a reminder, the Morning Joe podcast available each weekday,

featuring our full conversations and analysis. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. You're watching Morning, Joe. We'll be right back. The fortunes of fables are able. We're answering right now the co-hosts of our fourth hour staff writer at the Atlantic, Jonathan, give us your latest reporting on not just what's happening right now,

but what's happened over the past 24 hours on Air Force One inside the president's camp? They're obviously delighted with how things went. I mean, they're framing this as a historic achievement. And there's no question. Yesterday was a good day. There's a lot of questions, as you guys have been discussing, and we discussed on air yesterday, about what happens next. But right now they do feel like the President of the United States use his unique leverage with the region.

And in particular, Prime Minister Netanyahu, he is far more popular. Can I just say that's the key? I mean, because we're talking about strong men throughout the region. Joe Biden was just as angry at Benjamin Netanyahu as Donald Trump has been. And there was no magic wand. Like, it wasn't like he loved him before the Qatari attack and they got angry. They've been angry at Netanyahu American. But that really was the key, wasn't it? That it was Donald Trump that was able to move Netanyahu. And Netanyahu believed Donald Trump's threats. Yeah, let's remember President Biden, after the October 7th attacks, flew to Israel, even embraced Netanyahu, but warned him, you know, don't let this become your Afghanistan.

And in the months that followed, the United States felt like that's what exactly was happening. So Biden exchanged a lot of sharp words with Netanyahu behind the scenes. There was also a brief pause in military aid, at least certain parts of it. But he wasn't able to leverage his own popularity because he's simply not as popular as Trump was in Israel. Trump has far. more clout in Israel than Biden ever did, despite Biden being a lifelong supporter of the Jewish state. So

yesterday, White House States I spoke to, didn't want to spend much time dwelling on the details of what's next. They wanted to make yesterday a show of force, a show of strength, a show of victory. And I think that is worth saying here. This is a couple different times in this process where Trump has just sort of asserted things like, hey, we have a deal. Hey,

there's going to be peace. Even though it wasn't quite done, and almost he created a momentum so it became that way. Everyone sort of said, well, I don't want to cross him, so therefore we'll go along with him. And what happened? I got the hostages released. So check. Yes.

So the question now is, what's the follow through? Exactly. Does Trump continue to use his leverage, his popularity, et cetera, to ensure that this deal does get implemented? Because it's going to take weeks, months, longer, and we have to see if Trump will have the attention span on this issue to see it through. Yeah. We had somebody on the show talking about how, uh, the, Both sides said yes, but Donald Trump heard yes and said, okay, let's go. That's right. And again, what I will say is the hostages got released. Nobody could do it. Nobody thought that could happen.

So check. There you go. Line one. Now we've got about 19 more points to go. And that is like everybody's been saying, Mika, that's where the follow-through comes. So the editors of the National Review are writing about a hard-fought triumph in Israel. And the piece reads in part, quote, we now know that Israel's Arab counterparts deepened their security cooperation with Jerusalem, even as they criticized its defensive war. As Israel emerges from the longest war in its history, as the dominant military and intelligence power in the region, it's possible for that covert coordination to become overt, for military relations to become commercial ties, and for one hopes a prosperous covenant to emerge.

None of that would be possible in the absence of Israel's military victory. The force that it brought to bear in this conflict and Trump's strike on Iran changed the facts on the ground in ways that rudderless diplomatic processes never could. There is hope today for a brighter future in the Middle East as a direct result of Jerusalem's refusal to accept the logic of terrorism and hostage-taking. and Donald Trump's unwavering support for that endeavor. The civilized world owes them both a profound debt. That's from the National Review. The Wall Street Journal editorial board is writing this morning about Trump's hostage triumph in Jerusalem, as they put it.

The journal writes this. Mr. Trump's line, this is a historic dawn of a New Middle East, echoes past hopes that have been crushed. Hamas gave in Monday not to make peace, but because its alternatives were worse. It seeks to exploit the ceasefire. to restore its power and return to war. Several Hamas leaders have already said the group will not disarm

and the terrorists may be reinvigorated by Israel's release of nearly 2,000 prisoners, a hefty ransom. We will learn soon if the Arab states are serious about Mr. Trump's plan. Will they disarm Hamas, blow up its tunnels, risk their soldiers' lives to keep Hamas down? If not, count on them to protest when Israel does it for them. Israel, in turn, will count on Mr. Trump for the full. backing he has promised. So David French, you actually have already today, Hamas carrying out public executions in the streets of Gaza to show that it is still here, that it is still a force

in Gaza despite the release of the hostages. So when Benjamin Etienne Yahoo and the Israeli military began this defense of war after October 7th, it said the goals were to get the hostages and to uproot and destroy Hamas. The living, hostages are home. That's great news. Now begins the part about Hamas, which has said, you can have these hostages, but we're not going anywhere. Yeah, I mean, this is, there's no indication right now that Hamas is looking to stand aside, to step down to disarm. Instead, it looks like it's using this pause, the ceasefire, to come out of hiding for a moment and to consolidate its power in the remaining portions of the Gaza Strip, where Israel has removed itself.

And so you could easily see how a lot of the peace celebrations of today as distinct from the celebrations of the hostage reunions, which that's done, as Joe said, check, that is a necessary vital step. That is done. But it's easy to see how some of the peace celebrations that we've witnessed could feel very, very premature if all of this framework gets stalled around steps two and three with Hamas saying, we're here, we're not leaving, we're not going anywhere. where we're not disarming. In those circumstances, Israel may feel compelled to go back into Gaza, and would it have the same backing from the Trump administration? In all likelihood, it would. But Trump's taking great joy in creating peace here and allegedly ending this conflict. So the question is, is that going to create pressure on Israel to stand aside, to stand down,

to maintain this truce for the time being? There's just a lot of questions that have absolutely not been answered yet. Yeah, and again, that first check was the biggest and the most important to get this process started. Extraordinary, the hostages coming home. But David Ignatius, what happens next? We know Hamas is the terror group that used to routinely execute Palestinians that wouldn't do exactly what they wanted to do. would push them off the top of buildings if they wouldn't if they wouldn't follow their hardline rule. So I just don't see that as a possibility. I don't see Netanyahu. I don't

see that Israelis allowing that to happen. What is done to stop Hamas from staying in power, from being the de facto power there, and instead getting them out of the way? So an Arab peacekeeping force can come in. So, Joe, I think the essence is that it's important to move quickly as quickly as possible to the second phase of this comprehensive peace deal. And what that means is getting in place the countries that have agreed to take part in an international security force and quickly train up vetted Palestinian Ghazan police people who can keep order, who can replace Hamas, police wherever, wherever possible, this is not going to be a bloodless process. The international force and the new Palestinian security force are going to take casualties.

So that's going to be the test of whether this is serious. This is going to be, I suspect, for some months, a low-level insurgency. Hamas can't threaten Israel itself anymore. That's over. But it can try to hold on to the territory it has. And the essential thing, I think, is all those leaders, Arab and Europeans standing behind President Trump, need to help him push for the next stage. The U.S. has already set up what is a key part of this security process by sending 200 Centcom soldiers to do the coordination and logistics for this force in Gaza. It's very smart to have front-loaded this.

But now we need to have other countries come in with their boots on the ground, working with the United States to quickly get conditions of security. Otherwise, you can just imagine how quickly it will deteriorate. The Hamas controlling the distribution of relief supplies, the other essentials that people need. So it's a joyous day, but it also should be invigoration for getting the next part ready to go as soon as possible. Otherwise, you're going to quickly have a chaotic situation that will be hard to undo. The Washington Post, David Ignatius, thank you, as always, for coming on this morning. And coming up on Morning, Joe, we're going to go through a new reporting on President Trump's hand-picked

prosecutor in Virginia, who has aggressively pursued cases against the president's perceived political enemies. Morning, Joe, we'll be right back. Our government agents are working. Luckily, my boys at ICE don't mind. They're in it for the love of the game. And how did I find them? By running ads like this. Do you need a job now?

Yeah. Are you a big tough guy? Yeah. Tough enough for the army or police? No. But do you take supplements that you bought at a gas station? Daily. Do you like to use zip ties because people in your life don't trust you with keys? You know it. Then buckle up and slap on some Oakley's big boy, welcome to ice. Wow. That was Tina Faye portraying Homeland Security Secretary Christine Nome in a cold open sketch along with Amy Poehler as Attorney General

Pam Bondi. All right. So President Trump's handpicked. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, Lindsay Halligan, is making moves that some are describing as radical reshaping of the office. Let's get the details now from MSNBC Justice and Intelligent correspondent Ken Delanian. So Ken, this latest move involves Halligan removing a senior prosecutor in Virginia. What can you tell us? Good morning, Mika. Yes, Lindsay Halligan has removed, as we understand it, the first deputy in the office, a woman named Maggie Cleary, who appeared to have pretty good maga bona fides. She had been a local prosecutor. Then she had been a federal prosecutor in the Western District of Virginia. She was falsely accused

of being present at the January 6th riot. And she said that that experience had sort of made her aware of what she called the weaponization of government. And she had been, she'd made a bid to be the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District, but settled on being the first assistant. but we are told that she was not on board with the case against James Comey, the prosecution of James Comey for lying to Congress. She did not accompany Lindsay Halligan into the grand jury to present that case. And now we are told she's been removed from her job and sent somewhere else in the Justice Department. And that's part of a series of firings that have taken place in the Eastern District since Lindsay Halligan has taken power there. And remember, Lindsey Halligan, Donald Trump's

former defense attorney, no prosecutorial experience. She had been an insurance. lawyer, and now she's in charge of one of the most important U.S. attorney's offices in the United States, guys. So, Ken, Cleary's crime here was that she was skeptical of the Comey prosecution, like almost every prosecutor in that office? We're not, you know, Lindsay Halligan is not reading out her decisions to us, Willie, but that is certainly one of the factors that we are told went into the, to her removal from that position. Let me ask you about Maryland as well, Ken. You reported on the acting U.S. attorney there, moving forward with criminal charges against President Trump's former national security advisor, John Bolton. What more are you learning about that? Yes. So the John Bolton case, we are told, is not seen in the same bucket as, say, the James Comey case and the case against Letitia James and New York Attorney General.

There actually seems to be some significant evidence in the Bolton case. Remember, he's not accused. He hasn't been charged. but his house and office were searched after a judge found probable cause to believe there was potential misconduct around classified information. And we learned subsequently that they did seize classified documents from his home, although those documents were old. What's really interesting about this case to me, what sources are telling us, is that this case arose in the Biden administration, in part because the United States intelligence community found some of John Bolton's emails because his account, his AOL account,

had been hacked by a foreign adversary. And one of the reasons they didn't move forward with this case, we're told, is because they were concerned about revealing that information, that revealing that, the access that the U.S. had to this adversary would be more harmful than anything that John Bolton did with classified material. Obviously, the Trump administration did not share those qualms, and so they've made public the fact that the U.S. essentially hacked into this other foreign government

and found these John Bolton emails. and some of my sources are very concerned about that and say that was a breach. The Trump administration says they did an analysis and professionals concluded it was okay to reveal. Either way, they appear to be moving forward with indicting John Bolton, Donald Trump's former national security advisor, and somebody who's prominent on Donald Trump's enemies list. So, Ken, in President Trump's infamous DM de Pam Bondi on Truth Social a few weeks ago, he identified three people he thought were, quote, guilty and should be inventing.

James Comey's been indicted. Tisha James has been indicted. The third is Adam Schiff, Senator from California. I couldn't help but notice that seemingly out of nowhere this weekend, Trump posted on Truth Social about his Ukraine impeachment, the first time he was impeached, and mentioned Schiff in that post suggesting some of that process may have been illegal. Is there a sense from people you're talking to that there's anything, that this is a new front that they're trying to open up if they're trying to have retribution against Schiff, too?

Well, Jonathan, it's an interesting question. because what we hear is that there are certain people in MaguWorld who want to bring a sort of holistic prosecution. Their theory is that there was a conspiracy to violate Donald Trump's civil rights with all the investigations. Whether you're talking about the Russia investigation, the Ukraine investigation, Jack Smith's special counsel investigations, they believe that everybody involved in these cases committed some kind of misconduct and abused Donald Trump's rights. And they're trying to sort of bring this massive case in their fantasy. The reality is there isn't any evidence to support any of that. If there was, we would have seen it because the Trump administration has had control of the records for nine months now.

And so even the way they are distorting and bringing marginal cases against some of these figures, it's hard to imagine they could bring that kind of case. But, you know, look, we're less than a year into the Trump administration. We'll see where it goes. We shall see MSNBC Justice and Intelligence Correspondent, Candelanian. Thank you so much. And I would say, again, these political prosecutions are terrible, exactly what Maga World was being critical about in years past. As you look at Alvin Bragg and other prosecutions, I will say, though, you cross a line.

You cross the Rubicon when you go after a sitting U.S. senator. Very interesting to see how other Republicans, how Republicans and Democrats alike would respond to that. David French, your latest opinion piece for The New York Times is entitled how a Trump judge exposed the Trump con. And in it you write about a decision by Judge Karen Imurgut in Oregon who issued that temporary restraining order to block President Trump's attempt to deploy the National Guard to Portland. Tell us about it. Yeah, this was a fascinating, judicial decision. And the reason is this, that Trump, when he's in court, is making a series of arguments about his authority and his power under Article 2 of the Constitution, his commander

and chief authority that says, you need to give me deference. If I'm going to be sending the National Guard into a city and I believe there's some sort of rebellion or I'm unable to execute the laws of the United States, you need to defer to my judgment there. And this is a shield that he's using against judicial review. And what this judge did, a Trump-appointed judge, was to say, wait a minute, the case authority says that, look, if these decisions are not made in good faith, or these decisions must be made in good faith, and if they're not being made in good faith, how much deference is he do?

And so she did what courts should have been doing from day one with Donald Trump, which is take his words seriously. She looked at the words that he said about Portland. said they were untethered to the facts on the ground and didn't give him all of that deference the way that other courts have because he was misrepresenting the truth. And I think this is a key way forward for judges in dealing with Donald Trump. Don't just look at his lawyer's justifications or rationalizations. Look at what the man himself is saying.

And if what the man himself is saying is at odds with the law, it's at odds with the facts on the ground, then act accordingly. New York Times opinion calmness, David French, thank you very much for coming on this morning. And still ahead on Morning Joe. We're going to take a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning, including the massive hiring spree.

One major American company has planned. Also ahead will be joined by Army and Marine veteran Graham Platner, who's running for U.S. Senate in Maine. Morning Joe is coming right back. Seven minutes before our time now to take a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. Amazon plans to hire a quarter of a million workers across the upcoming holiday season. The same number as the last two years, the announcement came amid concerns that U.S. shoppers would be more cautious this holiday season due to the effects of President Trump's tariffs. The retail giant, however, expects an uptick in orders.

Overall, the number of seasonal jobs this year is expected to fall to its lowest level since 2009. Apple has rebranded its streaming service Apple TV Plus to simply Apple TV, the same name as its connected smart TV device, product, and app. The tech giant quietly revealed the news yesterday stating Apple TV Plus is now simply Apple TV with a vibrant new, identity. With the move, Apple TV will no longer be part of the seemingly endless number of streaming services that use the plus sign in their name in some fashion. And the Canadian budget air carrier, West Judd, says that customers who want to recline in their seats will be charged extra. What? The airline said they are reconfiguring. They are reconfiguring. some of their planes so that economy seats will have a fixed recline design to help passengers preserve

personal space. A new premium cabin will include 12 seats that have reclining seatbacks and cost extra. According to the New York Post, the new seat layout will allow the airline to add one seating row compared to the prior layout, which will ultimately reduce cost per seat. That's come on, man. just kind of weak right it just seems just trying to squeeze it more passengers and they're giving you the choice if you don't want to recline you save a few bucks and maybe it's a short flight you don't need recline okay flying is coming up already so let's how about southwest I guess is our commercial they're going to start having a signed seat that's kind of a lot I like the thing we go

to the post you like the free for all it's fun coming up it's a pretty funny commercial by the way They're sitting there and they're looking up and they go, oh, they're going to have assigned seats. And somebody goes, nobody's ever thought of that before. Coming up.