Morning Joe - Trump to meet with Zelenskyy and European leaders in D.C. to discuss Ukraine peace efforts

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

Trump to meet with Zelenskyy and European leaders in D.C. to discuss Ukraine peace efforts

We made progress in the sense that we identified potential areas of agreement, but there remained some big areas of disagreement. So we're still a long ways off. I mean, we're not at the precipice of a peace agreement. We're not at the edge of one. But I do think progress was made. Federal Secretary of State Marco Rubio yesterday, we're going to preview a consequential meeting today at the White House. Man, and it's going to be a significant one between President Trump and Volodomor Zelensky,

Plus, a lot of members of European governments, and that's following, of course, the Friday summit meeting between Trump and Vladimir Putin. You sent me a fascinating statement last night from a source close to a European leader saying that this is going to be one of the most significant meetings regarding the future of Europe in quite some time. Yeah, Zelenskyy bringing reinforcements,

leaders from many European heads of state, head of the EU, representatives of NATO, the UK, France, Germany, the list goes on, being there to be with him, as he meets with President Trump, two days after Trump met with Putin in Alaska, some concerns, some hopeful signs come on that meeting, some other worrisome signs coming out of that meeting, and the European leaders there want to be with Zelensky as he makes his case and tries to avoid a repeat of what we saw at his last time in the Oval Office that blow up back in February.

Yeah, and we'll see what happens. We don't know. There are a lot of people afterwards saying a lot of different things on both sides, and both sides don't know what's going to exactly happen today. I do like the fact that the leaders are there, the European leaders there. And, Caddy, when you have somebody like the Prime Minister of Italy, who is considered to be far right, who some people have considered to be ultra-nationalists, actually coming to the meeting and talking about the importance of a security agreement

and something that we're hearing. And again, everybody's been saying it's not going to be NATO. It's not going to be NATO, for the most part, has been the belief. but when you have the Italian Prime Minister saying the starting point of the proposal is the definition of a collective security provision. Well, once you start talking about that, then you can start negotiating and haggling over lines because that's what Poland, that's what Latvia, that's what Lithuania, that's what Estonian all of those countries are looking at.

Is there a security guarantee? If there's a security guarantee, then yes. then we can start talking about where we draw the lines. Yeah, when Georgia Maloney was elected, there was some concern in Europe that she might be more pro-Russian, less supportive of Ukraine. She's been anything but really has been a defender of Ukrainian independence. And having her in that meeting is key. Of course, Mark Rutter, the Secretary General of NATO, is also going to be there. Another person that Donald Trump has a good relationship with, this European contingent has been chosen to have people in the room with Donald Trump, who he feels,

comfortable with, who he has an affinity with. And I think that's Europe's way of saying, okay, let's do whatever it takes. We understand Donald Trump now. We understand the American concerns. We will do whatever it takes to present a united front on behalf of Ukraine without alienating the American president. So, President Trump and Ukrainian leader, Vladimir Zelensky, are set to meet at the White House today.

Zelensky announced his trip to the U.S. shortly after Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin wrapped up their summit in a on Friday. The prospect of a ceasefire didn't come up, but following that meeting, Trump promised a quote, peace agreement to end the war in Ukraine. Trump is also offering security guarantees for Ukraine. That's a shift from his earlier position that only Europe should help protect Kiev after the war. Last night on truth social, Trump ramped up the pressure on Ukraine, writing that Zelensky can end the war with Russia almost immediately if he wants to, or he can. can continue to fight. Trump also suggested that Ukraine should not retake the Russian-occupied

territory of Crimea, nor should it join NATO. Zelensky responded to that in a social media post of his own, writing in part, quote, peace must be lasting, not like it was years ago when Ukraine was forced to give up Crimea and part of our East, part of Donbass, and Putin simply used it as a springboard for a new attack, or when Ukraine was given so-called security guarantees in 1994, but they didn't work. Now, several European and NATO leaders are expected to attend today's meeting in Washington, as we said. They include the President of the European Commission, the Chancellor of Germany, the Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom and of Italy, the presidents of France and of Finland, and the NATO Secretary General Joseph. I mean, this is, I've not seen

in all the years that I have covered American politics, I have not seen a delegation like this from Europe, not even at the outbreak of the Iraq war, come to Washington, come to the White House to make Europe's case for peace and security in Europe. Well, and it is very significant. And some interesting things are obviously happening between the United States and Europe, even in the wild six, seven, eight months that we've seen terror threats going back and forth. But you do have Donald Trump having close relations with Kier Starrmer, with the new chancellor of Germany, obviously with Maloney and Italy.

So we'll see exactly what happens there. Of course, all those European leaders are talking about the need for security guarantee, the White House on background talking about the need for security guarantees as well. Let's bring in right now NBC News National Affairs Analyst and a partner and chief political columnist at Puck, John Heilman, also columnist for the Washington Post, David Ignatius, and Rogers Chair in the American Presidency at Vanderbilt University historian, John Meacham. David Ignatius, a lot of moving parts today. It does appear from what we've heard over the weekend and what we heard last night and read last night on Truth Social, that whatever

security agreement there will be, whatever security arrangement involving, Americans will be, it won't be a formal NATO membership, not much of a surprise there. Perhaps a surprise, though, that he was tweeting about it on truth social last night before the meeting. So, Joe, I think President Zelensky of Ukraine faces an agonizing choice today because he's going to come to the White House, and I think President Trump is going to lay out the parameters of the deal that emerged. They didn't talk about it in Alaska.

And that deal is likely to require Zelensky to give up territory that he now holds in these key disputed provinces of Donetsk and Lujansk. And that's enormously painful for Zelensky. Ukrainians have been fighting and dying. People go to Kiev see in the St. George's Cathedral Square, the photographs of people who've been dying in Donetsk since 2014. So to give that up is extremely painful. But on the other hand, it does appear that the U.S. is finally, after months, back and forth on this, prepared to offer serious security guarantees backing up the European force that will be

the principal guarantor of Ukrainian security. That's a big shift. So it comes down to Zelensky to decide, is this land for peace deal something that's better for Ukraine, something that I can sell to the Ukrainian people? The indications are that he may balk at it, but Trump's going to lean hard on him. And I think the Europeans are coming really to say, we are with you, brother president. We're here to support you if you decide that the security guarantees are sufficient to protect Ukraine, to keep it an independent country, not capitulating to Russia, but but taking its own, of course, toward Europe. Let's bring it right now from Warsaw, Poland.

Mark Bresenski is the most recent U.S. Ambassador to Poland, who also served in the White House and the National Security Council, and as U.S. Ambassador to Sweden, he's now CEO of Prisinski Global Strategies LLC. Mr. Ambassador, thank you so much for being with us. You were on the front lines of this, obviously, after the invasion and certainly spoke to all interested parties in this. I'm curious to your thoughts about what happened over the weekend, the meeting today in the White House, and what the people of Poland, and let's just expand that out, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, what people in the East are looking at and what they want to see out of this White House meeting today. Joe, greetings from a part of the world that is very anxious and uncertain about what is happening at the White House today.

from Central and Eastern Europe, what looks like is going to happen at the White House today is the diplomatic version of a showdown at the OK Corral, and so much is at stake. It could be either a rollback of the gains made in terms of democracy in the free market in Central Eastern Europe, you know, spearheaded by President Ronald Reagan, or, alternatively, a ceasefire could be brokered by President. Trump that stops a war that has already claimed one million casualties. The opportunity that President Trump has today, and we all want President Trump to be successful, regardless of who you supported, he is now the U.S. President, and in his hands is the possibility

of peace to stop a war that is claimed over one million casualties. But he has an opportunity, not just to convince Ukraine, to somehow work, you. in alignment with him to achieve a ceasefire, but also President Trump can speak directly to the top European leadership regarding what he expects them to contribute to keep that peace and ultimately to rebuild Ukraine. Europe has a lot of resources, and Trump would be within his rights to say, Ukraine is not just an American problem, it is an international problem, and especially it's a European problem, and it will be important for the Europeans to share in.

and join in with us on this. So, Mr. Ambassador, there's been suggestions of American security guarantees. They're very vague. We don't know what they are just yet. There's some concern out of Europe, and please speak to this, that yesterday, for instance, Secretary of State Rubio was asked what concessions Russia would need to make. He didn't want to elicit any. But yes, last night, President Trump did already give a couple that Ukraine would have to,

not go back to Crimea, not join NATO. So there is a sense, it's safe to say that if the European leaders thought Friday was a the summit in Alaska with Putin was a home run, they wouldn't need to necessarily be there with Zelensky in Washington today. So speak to us about the continent there, the level of anxiety that today's a real opportunity to be sure. But what are some of the worries as they get and as Zelensky heads back to the White House? Sure. Well, American security guarantees are the holy grail in all this. And I say this, having served as ambassador in Poland, which literally was in the crosshairs of Putin, because it was delivered.

the weapons to the Ukrainians, the Ukrainians that were using to defend themselves against Russia. And the security guarantee, the Article V commitment here in Poland, worked. Without that Article 5 guarantee, I can only imagine what Poland and the Baltic states and Romania would have faced. So Article 5, the fact that Whitkoff and Rubio, negotiator Whitkoff and Secretary Rubio are talking about it is truly the crux of a deal that the Ukrainians could buy into. And a security guarantee would have to keep the peace on both sides. This has been a terribly bloody war with casualties massive on both sides. And years, over the next few years, there will be feelings of retribution and passion for retribution on both sides. The Russia-Ukraine conflict has historical dimensions that if

President Trump can broker a ceasefire very soon would be worthy of celebration because it is so historically rooted and so recently bloody. And to put something in place that stops that would be worthy of accolades. All right. And he has a opportunity today. All right. Former U.S. ambassador to both Sweden and Poland, Mark Prasinski. Thank you so much for your time.

We greatly appreciate it. John Meacham, your thoughts on the summit? I was re-watching, before the meeting in Alaska, I was re-watching a documentary on Roosevelt and certainly saw what happened at the Alta. And John Bolton said it was the Alta. I'm not sure exactly what it was, but I suspect the proof, as they say, will be in the point.

putting what comes out today and in the coming days and weeks. I'm curious your thoughts on what you saw Friday and through the weekend. Well, you know, personal diplomacy matters enormously. It's not always the determining factor, but it's part of the context in which decisions get made. It's very interesting that Europe has learned the lessons of the first Trump term. They are It looks as if President Zelensky never wants to be alone in the Oval Office again, which is quite understandable given what happened the last time he was there. I remember once asking Henry Kissinger what role the personal relationships played, and he had an interesting for such a stark realist.

He said it did help on the margins that your level of trust of someone could put you over a line to a decision that you might, might not otherwise be. And so to me, the central question is what does Putin want and what does he take from any kind of settlement? What lesson does he take? Does he take the lesson that if you move in someplace, you're going to get at least something. And at that point, does that begin to underscore the principle that aggression pays, the lesson that aggression pays? And so if I were walking into that summit, I would want to know as much as possible about how President Putin is going to interpret a deal. Well, I mean, and that seems to be the key. We have taught, we the West, John Highland,

we have taught Vladimir Putin that aggression pays. 2008, he goes into Georgia. George W. Bush and the West does nothing. 2014, he goes into Crimean Ukraine. Barack Obama at first is reluctant to even send defensive weapons. We do nothing. We completely ignore the guarantees we made to them. And so this has been going on and on and on.

Joe Biden was the first president to actually push back. back. So it will be fascinating to see what happens. One other thing that's fascinating, a difference, everybody's always saying, well, what's different second term versus the first term? The first term, Vladimir Zelensky would not want any European leaders in with him because Donald Trump had horrible relations with all of them. Now, there's very good relations with Kier's Starmer. He's had very good relations with Bologna in Italy. He's got good relations with Macron in France. He's got a good, good relations with a new chancellor of Germany.

It is very interesting that Donald Trump will be surrounded by leaders that he is, that he has close personal relations with. And so that'll be, that'll be very telling to see how that works with Zelensky if, if this security guarantee is, is really pushed hard. Right. And look, Zelensky, I would have thought,

Slensky would want anybody with him in the room to avoid the mugging that he experienced the last time he was in the room alone with Donald Trump and J.D. Vance. Joe, to your point, to me, the biggest picture here continues to be, and what you see coming out of Zelensky's social media pose last night is it's just going to be very hard for him to swallow giving up land. And to your point about reinforcing the notion of what does Vladimir Putin take from this? why did Vladimir Putin look so jolly the other night in Alaska, is that in the end, it's hard to escape the message that you laid out there, which is in the end, he's going to have fought this war. He's going to have lost a lot of lives and suffered a lot of casualties, but he's going to end up getting what he really wanted, which was a piece of Ukraine.

The long-term question, the long-term question of... Actually, what he wanted was Ukraine. What he expected to have was Kiev. The question is, will he get slivers of Ukraine and actually have the United States guaranteeing the security of the rest of Ukraine. He did not want that. Right. That's 100% correct. All I mean is he's, the question is whether he's in a position now to chip further away Ukraine. He will have gotten as part of what he wanted and not had to suffer really any consequences as far as I can see the question of what, the question that was

asked to Rubio over the weekend, which is what is Russia giving up in this deal and there is no real answer. Well, that's what we're going to see. We don't know. There was a lot of screeching this weekend from a lot of people acting like the deal was already done. and it was a huge defeat for Zelensky, we don't know yet. The question is this, will there finally be a stop sign? Will the West finally put a stop sign in front of Vladimir Putin, which they didn't do after Georgia? They didn't do after Crimea. They didn't do after Ukraine in 2014.

And it's very simple. I mean, the stop sign is very simple. And we've been doing in the United States. We did it after World War II. we put enough American soldiers in West Germany not to repel a Soviet invasion, but just enough that it was a tripwire. You kill our soldiers. We're coming after you. We did it in South Korea. You come after us. That's the tripwire. We're coming after you. If the West, if Europe puts a security force in Ukraine with U.S. backing, if the United States is a part of rebuilding Ukraine, and we have

Americans in there, business owners, contractors, and perhaps military advisors, if they are in there, that is a tripwire. And that would be enough to actually put a stop sign up to Vladimir Putin. The question is, will we get that for today? And if we don't, not today, but during this process, if we get that, that's something we haven't had since Putin became president of Russia. And so then, yeah, we can talk about drawing the lines. If we don't get that, really nothing else matters because he'll just reload and invade again. Right. The summits have to be taken as in tandem here. Part one was Friday. Part two is today. It's the football game. First half, the second half. No question. Ukraine felt like they took a loss on Friday in the first half,

with President Trump backing away from the need for an immediate ceasefire before negotiating a long-term peace. That was not well received in Kiev or in Europe. That led to a lot of consternation, in part what led to today. However, as the reporting came out over the weekend, that there has been more talk of American security guarantees, and Trump officials saying that Putin even acknowledged that there would be some need for security guarantees, well, that would change the game.

So you're right. We don't know what's going to happen precisely today. But in the days and weeks ahead, if there is some sort of force where the war eventually winds down and the U.S. guarantees, like, hey, if you do this again to Putin, there are going to be real consequences. Yes, it's still, of course, a tragedy. for Ukraine to lose 20% of their land.

You know, there was never really any possibility of going into NATO, but if they were to get some sort of NATO-like guarantee, then that would be at least give them some hope for the future, because that's what Zelensky's message has been all along, has been this has been a tragedy, and what we need to most of all, we need to prevent Putin from ever trying to do that. By the way, let's underline two things here,

just again, to set expectations, to be realistic. Even during the Biden administration, every Biden official, including the chairman of the joint chief, says they're going to have to give a plan. They're not going to like giving a plan, but they're going to have to give a plan. Number one, number two, they're not going to become members of NATO. There may have been people writing articles in the Wall Street Journal or elsewhere saying they have to be members of NATO, but you go around to every European leader.

That was never going to happen, but there was an idea of a quasi-NATO type guarantee. they need that guarantee. And if they get that guarantee, if they have the guarantee that Putin's not going to reload and then come back in, that would be considered, I think, at the end, a win for Ukraine, would it not? Yeah. NATO was never on the table. You're right. Eventually admission to the EU, possible. But right now in the short term, I think that is what Keev wants, some sort of security guarantee to prevent Putin from simply taking. taking a break, reloading, and then trying again. They don't care if there was some suggestion out of the weekend that Putin said in the Constitution,

that in Russia there, they would say, well, we can't invade again. That's meaningless. No, it doesn't matter. No one cares. Nobody trusts me. Nobody trusts Putin. No one trusts Putin. Nobody trusts.

And again, on Friday, obviously, Putin to John's point earlier, Putin had the body language of a winner on Friday night's summit. But that was only part one. I heard that. He's a KGB agent to people expecting to hand. his head and go, oh, poor me. No. He did the slouch thing. He always does the slouch thing in the chair. He always says that. He does the slouch thing in the chair when like Barack Obama and other people are next to him. But, but did to be sure. Again, by the way, if he did the slouch thing in the chair

with me or you, we'd just get up and walk off. Yeah. I'd be like, if you're not going to pay attention to. Flat. If you can't even, I seriously, while I was watching him and and President Obama, I said going, why doesn't Obama just get up and walk off? Yeah, that's one of them. Somebody acts that way in front of me to make a point. It was no word. You made your point. Hope you have fun. I'm going back to Washington. It was nowhere that he was relatively punctual on Friday. Putin is notorious for being out. He made the Pope wait three hours. So he was at least somewhat on time. But you're right. Today is part two. Part one, not the best for Ukraine, but there are some renewed hope today and Zelensky coming in with Alice.

And I suggest if there is a part three, the part three will be, as Marco Rubio said, that this is a longer process than President Trump wants. And then at that point, we don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves, but just look. looking forward. Then at that point, does he go through with the sanctions? Does he listen to Republicans and go through with the sanctions? I suspect that may be the next move if we don't get a deal soon. Still out of the morning, Joe, we're going to bring the latest on the battle to draw congressional maps in Texas. As Democrats unveil their own plan to offset any potential Republican gains. Plus, the Premier League is back. Roger Bennett joins us with highlights from week one. And a reminder, the Morning Joe podcast, well, it will.

change your life. It's available each weekday featuring our full conversations and analysis. You can listen to it wherever you get your podcast and look at John Heilman right now. It's all right. It's all right. One of the reasons why John is listening guaranteed Dr. Oz says

to reverse male pattern baldness. You're watching Morning Joe. We'll be right back. Good, that money. Wow. Six-25, the Capitol this August morning. We're following what the papers are writing about this big summit at the White House later today. The Wall Street Journal editorial has a new piece asking what kind of peace in Ukraine. It reads in part, President Trump conducts foreign policy on personal instinct and tactical impulse. And his abrupt Friday turn on Russia and Ukraine.

is a classic illustration. Whether it's the start of a road to peace or to appeasement is impossible to know. We're not sure if Mr Trump knows himself. No wonder Russian commentators and Putin and allies were celebrating the summit's results. Their president ended his isolation in the West, made no public concessions, and can continue killing Ukrainians without further sanction. The president can say all he wants that this is Joe Biden's war. Not his, but like it or not, what happens next is on.

his watch. A defeat for Ukraine will echo at home and across the world for the rest of his presidency. Well, the editors of the National Review, meanwhile, they're also writing about the No Deal Summit and the path to peace in Ukraine. In part, their story reads, quote, Putin can claim wins of more consequence than a photo op. Above all, he dodged any requirement to pay a fresh price for his failure to agree to a ceasefire. This is a significant climb down by Trump. This matters, with out a preliminary ceasefire, it will be hard to proceed to the more formal armistice that remains the most likely form of eventual peace deal for any American intervention to be successful. Before long, it will, however chummy the talks in Alaska, have to involve

more stick as well as carrot. Trump should remember that while patience is a virtue, being a patsy, is not. In the aftermath of the meetings, he wants to hold off on further sanctions for now. That's fine. But in the absence of progress toward a ceasefire, in fairly short order, he should resume turning the sanctions racket. David Ignatius, I mean, that's two conservative points of view, clearly coming from the more hawkish traditional Republican Party point of view. What's your take on what happens now outside of the White House and outside of this meeting? If things carry on on this path, are there any avenues for the Senate,

for the Republican Party to carry on, putting pressure on the White House to support? Ukraine, or does it all really hinge on this meeting today? So, Caddy, President Trump has shown that he's able, really, I think, to fend off Republican pressure. And although Lindsey Graham and others... Despite what those papers might be writing. Yeah, well, I just think recent history shows us that. One way to think about what's happening today and in the succeeding days is this war has been about whether Ukraine can become a Western country. That's been the aspiration of the Ukrainian people, and it was intolerable to Putin and to Russia.

And Russia really fought a war to prevent Ukraine from becoming European. If the United States today, by offering security guarantees to whatever part of Ukraine emerges from the war intact, so that that country can be, as South Korea became, as West Germany became, a part of the West, with our guarantees of security behind them, then that's an outcome that's going to make for a more prosperous of Ukraine. In the long run, I can't imagine that the rest of Ukraine won't move

as East Germany moved with West Germany. That's down the road. But the key thing is whether the United States really will stand behind Ukraine's sovereignty against Putin. If that happens today, then I think there's some reason for optimism. If it doesn't, it's a cave into Putin's power.

Hey David, it's Heilman here. I just want to pick up on a little bit on where you just ended off, but more a couple of unanswered questions from the, from the first block of the show. I know there's obviously these European leaders who are coming to the White House today are not all of exactly one mind, but I think it's fair to say that there's broadly speaking among all of them a certain set of concerns. What's the, what's the downside scenario for this group? They're showing up there, fearing the worst, the worst. looks like what today? So, John, to me, the worst would be Trump leans on Zelensky to give up all of the Dunbass,

this area in eastern Ukraine. Zelensky refuses for political reasons. He says, I can't. It violates my constitution and my people don't want it. And the Europeans, although talking tough, don't stand up to what will be Trump's demand. And you've got to give up that territory. This is the peace deal I've made for you. And they stand behind Trump rather than Zelensky.

That's the scenario that I view as most threatening. At the end of this process, you'd end up with Ukraine having to make concessions without getting anything sufficient in return to guarantee its security. That would be a music like. That's what I was going to ask you. How much do you think Ukraine will be? willing to give up, if in fact they get a rock solid security guarantee where the European countries and Donald Trump say, we're going to be in Ukraine, the U.S. is going to be supporting us,

we're all going to be rebuilding your country, and we're going to tell Vladimir Putin in no uncertain terms that an attack against Ukraine is attack against the United States and Great Britain and France and Germany and Italy and the EU. At that point, when he gets that rock solid assurance, if he gets that rock solid assurance, at that point, do you think the land deal can be made? So, Joe, he has to be able to sell this to the Ukrainian people. And they have suffered in this war so much. Just think about bombardment every night, every night spending much of that night awake, which has been the case for much of this year for Ukrainians, Ukrainians in Kiev and elsewhere. He has to sell it to this, you know, war-weary people and say, we got something. We're giving up

this land. It's a dagger in our heart. But what we got was security, our ability to be a free European country. So I think it depends in how this is phrased. If the appearance at the end of today is of the Western countries, the United States and Europe, marching together with Ukraine, even as it makes this terrible concession of land, that may be something that Zelensky can take home, and the Ukrainians would say it was worth the sacrifices we made. But there's a lot of resistance to it. Again, I just share with your viewers the feeling of standing in St. Michael Square looking at pictures of Ukrainians who died in Donetsk, in Lujans, since 2014, there are hundreds of photos, as far as you can see, of people who've died in this

war. So giving it up is not going to be easy. John Meachan, there's also another interested observer today, and that's going to be Xi Jinping of China, who's going to see what the U.S. and the West is willing to do to stand up for a smaller country invaded by a larger one. So speak to us just about how precarious this moment is, big picture here, as we really barrel into this new century with the sense of, of, you know, almost a return to a great powers setup where, you know, there are spheres of influence and potentially aggression can be rewarded or at least go relatively unpunished. John? I think we've lost that. Beachim's, I think, Joe. John, John, either foes or he fell asleep,

you know, considering. Well, John. You know, I had a lot of why. things to say there. Well, yeah, but it looked like you're in the middle of one of your over 80s matches at your country club. John always goes to ask if he can play in the over 80s, you know, bracket. And it's very important to be able to play within the oxygen tent. Yes. Exactly.

All right. Now, John, John, you're being paid for to give deep thoughts. Go. Deep thoughts. The deep thought, deep thought here, to. Jonathan's question, is it is a great power competition. We are interestingly in 2025 back to 1914. This is interesting question whether is this the pre-World War I era that has reasserted itself at the end of what we all took, the lessons we all took from World War II

and the Cold War, which was an implacability, an unconditional surrender. One of the reasons I think this conversation is uncomfortable for a lot of people conversant with American history is that we didn't really talk about negotiating in the middle of the 20th century, right? We didn't talk about doing this after FDR and FDR announced unconditional surrender in the Second World War, somewhat surprising Churchill in Casablanca. We didn't talk about it so much during Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, because we had made a stand. It's a long twilight struggle, and we represent the West. And as Ronald Reagan said, his view of the Cold War was, we win, you lose. This is not that, right? This is something in between.

And I think it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable for me to think, okay, we're going to. We're going to award this aggression, but yes, you get a collective security agreement. Okay, but you wouldn't need it if the aggression had not happened. So what is all that? That's the tragedy of history. And so what we're going to see today in Washington is a remarkable gathering of European leaders who are trying to find the best, worst option.

So David Ignatius, as we wrap up the segment, I want to read from you, something from the new statesman on Friday out of Britain. And I read it to you because you knew Dr. Prasinski so well. This was a review of Zabig, Ed Luce's biography, and Dr. Prisensky. And the parallels are striking. This summer, in between hosting J.D. Vance and visiting Switzerland, David Lamy, the Foreign Minister of Great Britain, had been reading Edward Luce's Zabig, the life of Zabignew Brazinski. The book charts the intellectual political rivalry between

the Polish-born U.S. diplomat Henry Kissinger. While Kissinger championed a foreign policy centered on the great powers and approached Lammy regards as cynical, Brzezinski consistently advocated for smaller countries, noting how they can act as geopolitical pivots, which Lammy considers to be overly cynical. And of course, as you know, starting in 1950, Dr. Prasinski said the Soviet Union will fall from within, most likely, when these small countries start breaking away. And of course, it was his own home country, Poland, that did that. I am struck by watching Donald Trump's foreign policy approach, saying how much it reflects Kissinger's in that it's about the great powers. It's about China, Russia, America, and everybody else be damned. Well, that didn't work.

Brzezinski's smaller countries, where you look at the Polans, you look at the Ukrainians, you look at the smaller countries in the orbits of these larger powers to actually see where it matters. So I'm fascinated how history repeats itself and how, We are actually looking at in what we've seen thus far in the Trump administration, more of a Kissinger, great powers, day-tod approach, that in the end was a historical failure. So, Joe, it's a great point. Trump so far has been about the big guys, you know, the big deals between the big, powerful leaders with whom he feels affinity.

Dr. Brzezinski had the genius to see Eastern Europe as a series of individual countries, each of which mattered in a different way. And I would say as we look at the events today, the United States and all of its European allies, and it does seem like this is an alliance again, are treating Ukraine as an individual country with its own aspirations and a deep yearning to be part of Europe. It's something Brzynski would have loved. I remember in one of our conversations, he spoke about the way in which Ukraine moving west toward Europe could be the first step of a broader process that would finally bring Russia, balance between Asia and Europe, more towards the west. That seems impossibly far away now.

But that was part of Dr. Brzynski's vision. And let's hope this intense focus on Ukraine is getting away from the big guys and thinking about the little guys and their security. The Washington Post, David Ignatius and historian John Meetson, our thanks to you both. Thank you, gentlemen. Good luck today, John, on the tennis court. Yeah, over 80s. We'll see.

Over 80s. I think he got it. Yeah, he's been working on the backhand. We'll see. Coming up here on Morning Joe, we'll bring you the latest on the federal takeover of Washington, D.C.'s police force after a weekend of protests in the nation's capital. Plus, Scotty Schaeffler simply does it again, winning another tournament with your run-of-the-mill, 82-foot chip-in to seal the deal.

Look at that. You can do that, right, John? Oh. I most certainly cannot. Heilman, maybe. Morning, Joe. Be right back. Welcome back to morning, Joe, beautiful shot of New York City.

It's sometime in August. Like, what is this? We're mid-the-A-A-A-A-G. We're getting to the second half of August. It's the dog days, bro. It is the dog. The sun's setting before 8 p.m. It's almost.

Say what? It was hot yesterday, man. Wretched. It was wretched, baby. Wretched. And I know wretched. It felt Florida. I mean, it gets hot.

Yeah. But it was hot yesterday. So on this hot New York weekend, we're going to get to sports on the national and international level segment. First, let's go to the Hampton Sport. So, okay, so every year. The cradle of baseball. The cradle of baseball. You have artists and writers.

That's right. This was a game like George Plumpton would go out. Tom Wolfe would be batting at his, you know, linen suit. like, now it's reduced to you and your brother. It's really, it's really falling off. So you got, you got Lupica's team against Kinaled's team. No, Lupica, Keniletta, it's the same team. They're both writers.

They're both writers. The Yankees and the Red Sox. Inner League. Against whom? It's the writers versus the artist. It is a charity softball game played every year. Been played forever. It's in 77th year.

That's forever. That is forever. Happy to tell you the writers of which squad I am on, we emerged, nine, six. We were triumphant this year. We had lost two in a row. We won this year. Mike Lupica, good job. He's watching. He's thinking about it. He's already planning for next year's game.

Can you call him Skip? Who hits Cleoddham? Woodward or Bernstein? We'll call Bernstein on the team. I hit my hit second, two hits, played a very, a Trevor story-esque shortstop. And he made the plays on the verge of injury at all times.

And the verge of injury. Exactly. Exactly. You need a first baseman. And who is? Joe, let's do it. Look at this. And unlike death, I found someone in wood. That's right. That's right. You have to be on the artist. Do you have to be on the artist? He writes. I mean, I know you're right, but you're a, you know, you're an artist. I mean, this one's a real artist over here. That's right. He is an artist. B.S. artist, but an artist. An artist of love. The Picasso of third. Okay. Well, I'm expecting Lupa can draft me for next year. Your phone is about to go off.

My phone's already gone off. Whenever, you know, Lupica, I tell you, we will be in the middle. I, I play one golf round a year, and we will be in the middle of a golf round, in the middle of the winter. And Lupu will go, hey, you know, your boy Lamar, and I'm going, he's going to talk about the artist's game. It's a good win. The writer's an artist's game again.

He loves it. Back in the day, the umpire in this game used to be Hunter Thompson with a big, satchelfully, ether. And I'm ready to take that's the role I want at this game going forward. And I was looking for that. President Clinton has umpired the game number of times.

It's not the shoe. Without the ether. No one's saying he had ether. You elites, it's just sickening isn't. This is the madlib I come to the studio for. Yeah. It's once a year. But it's just for charity. Does President Clinton wear the mask? Did you wear the text for charity? By the way, Pablo. The cup. Can I just tell you, I have gotten positive notice from across the globe for our segment. Oh, boy.

Pablo's potpourri. That's right. We need to do that some more. A fragrant, a fragrant. couple of minutes that America has been clamoring for. Frigrant is one word for it. It is. Speaking of Ether, let's bring in right now, Roger Bennett. He is, of course, the founder and the CEO of Men and Blazers. Roger, thank you so much. Smoking of Ether is an incredible segue to Raj.

Well, I had to have something. You get from the Hamptons to Raj. Raj, new Premier League season opened up. How was it? It wasn't as good as Mike Lupica stumbling around the baseball field, Joe. Let me tell you that. But it is the world's greatest telenovela played out live without a script. 380 games scattered over 283 days with a World Cup in the United States at the end of it.

Whole planet watching. It was quite rollicking. Highlights include Manchester City's Earl in Harlan. That man is chat, GPT and cleats, scoring twice as City began with a 4-0. down the walls. Oasis reunite. That's all it takes for them to be back atop the table. My God, the man is like ripped from Nordic, epic poetry. Tottenham Hotspur raise hopes just to shatter them.

They start beautifully Brazilian Rich Arleson, unleashing a bicycle kick that most human beings on Cooper Cabana can do whilst wearing a speed out. Tottenham Hotspur, hearts, hopes, shattered hopes, inevitably and extricably connected but Joe highlighted the game took place at the team you support Liverpool Football Club

Boston Red Sox's own champions they kicked off the season at home a night of pageantry, ritual, mourning fans welcoming back defending champions while mourning one of their own midfielder Diogo Zota who tragically died in a car crash in July really a panoply of emotions

triumph from tears pre-match rendition set the tone Liverpool stormed into the lead. That's a new star, Hugo Eckert TK. There's no more potent palindrome in sport. They went two-nill ahead. But Bournemouth of Tadus, this is Antoine Semenio,

rumbling down like, oh, Desmond Howard in his prime. Liverpool's stunned to be pegged back to two, two. But in the 88th minute, a player who's been more a meme than a football, a little Federico Keyes. Look at this. First ever Premier League goals. redemptive power even he looks surprised

to have scored it and late late on the Egyptian king Mo Salah this is actually quite beautiful whether you like football or not this is Diogo Jota's great friend and teammate

finished of course he did ended up celebrating with the fans and then at the end of the game walked up to them as the fans sang the song of Jota for the first time without him being alive to hear it

Salah in tears capturing a night of humanity, triumph, really a reminder to savor every second in life, Joe. You do not know when it will be your last. It's humanly beautiful, right? It really is. I, yeah, hard to get actually excited about the opening game this season because of Jodah, because of the tragedy after the parade as well. A very rough offseason for Liverpool.

but you're right, so moving and so moving to see Moe there at the end, tearing up. Thank you so much, Roger. We greatly appreciate it. Courage. Big love. Let's get back to some more Mike Lupica.

Okay, more loopiga. More looping Mike Lupiga in the morning. All right, thank you so much. You're going to hear from Arsenal fans about no coverage for Arsenal. Well, what is it matter? I was bringing Caddy here. Caddy has, I think a son is an Arsenal fan. Caddy, we could, we could show Arsenal winning in August in September and October.

He was happy with that, you know. And December. They got three points on the board. They're okay. It was not the most elegant of games. Man, you didn't put up the greatest competition. But I had a happy son. I had a happy husband.

Man City won two. So, you know, all good in my house. My prediction, your husband will continue to be happy with City because they're going going to have a great run. And your son, as always, as we get into the spring, Arsenal will fold like a rusty lawn chair like they always do. We'll disappoint. And, you know, you'll have to be talking your son through it. Yeah. There you go. Well, Caddy, we know you're a huge baseball fan. Huge. Oh, my God. Big, huge. So what don't you think is. Here. Yeah, thank God. Lamere is here. Yeah, thank God. I'll step up here. So we want to bring you what's being called perhaps the catch of the

decade. This was yesterday in the different systems. go, well, that's what the announcer said. And the outfit, watch this, the Giants jumping Lee, racing to make a play on a drive-out to right center. Watch it again. He has the ball. He dives. The ball pops out of his glove, and he catches it

with his knees. He catches the ball, the upper thigh, catch the ball between his legs, rolls over, still has it. You can see the ball never touches the ground. He's got it there. What a catch. Giants. Just like he planned.

Just like, just like, just like Epland. I don't know that I've ever seen that one before. The Giants win, snapping a seven games. The Giants have been, their management's been made fun of for years for requiring every player. You, Suzanne Somers, Thymaster, we're now saying,

it paid off at last. We should note on the Giants, Joe, a stat you sent around. Yes, I do. That since the Raphael Devere's trade back in mid-June... How's that working for him? Which took the baseball rule by storm. Since that date, the San Francisco Giants, the worst record in baseball. And this makes me sad.

You can tell Joe is broken up. You know, what I come to you also for is your unbiased coverage of the Boston Red Sox. In no way, in no way as Raphael Devers is going to hear it from this particular program. Right. Right. As he now lives in a cove covered by fog, both emotional, mental, and clearly performance-based. Yeah. They held the Yankees' students for a good. Did they win? I am glad you asked because I just strolled in here in South Back Cover of the New York Post. And that's right. It was a sweet gift card.

Of the Cardinals, now ignore the increasingly sarcastic headline. Yeah. I don't like this, by the way. That's good. I don't like that. They're just assuming that, of course, the Cardinals is handing out, you know, gift baskets of wins, but that's right. Joe, a significant series looms this weekend. Yankees, Redstocks four in the Bronx.

It's going to be fascinating. And you see the standings of Titans. We need to win two against the Orioles. We need to split that one against Yankees. I tell you, of course, we know the Yankees are going to end up winning the World Series. How many games? I'm going to win in five games. I'm going to embarrass the Dodgers.

You're like a witch doctor. No, no, no. That's what this is. They're going to win in five games. And I've got to say again, I've said it before. I say it again, anything less than that is a complete total abject failure for this. An embarrassment, really. It's really, your spells won't work on me.

Do we mention it last Friday? They already have. The Dodgers were headed into a three-game series against the Padres. We were talking about the Padres are kind of a very dangerous team. Moderates is good team. What happened over the weekend? Dodgers swept. Yeah, statement by the Dodgers.

That is a statement. I did the Adjors. I swear the potters. Really quickly, just because Alex, I'm sure at this point, it's just about to, like, you know. He left. He's got the, he's walked out. I heard his headset and fall against the ground.

Jack Scarborough gives me the countdown. And I guess today is 12 days till Alabama plays FSU. Like, we're getting close. Football around the corner. Football is just around the corner. He picked his fantasy football teams this week. That's right. Have you done that?

do that next week next week you do it do you do that i do but early september right before the season we rent to my high school friends we've been for 25 years we rent a room now in the hamptons right somewhere in the outfield yeah we gather and uh no this is look america is going back to church this is what happens seasonal worship and it is the biggest thing that we have left in this country well actually sac religious pablo america is going back to church the rates are going back up, especially for younger men. Just wanted you to know that. Maybe there's a connection between fantasy football and... That was trending on TikTok. Do you know? Praying for Josh Allen. I guess. How many years in a row have I done fantasy football?

Zero. How many years in a row? A decade. A decade. A decade. How many years are? I guess I'll take the middle of say three, four. Winner right here. Zero. Zero. I know that time for fantasy football. Joe and I are talking to say that. Anti-American. I've got people. I've got this fantasy Football. I'm in fantasy baseball. I don't know. I wouldn't have a kid. He wrapped it with the kids. I would make it up a scene gesture with my hands right now, except it would be, you know, how many years have you done it? Zero. Exactly. Zero. Still ahead.