Morning Joe - 'Where was any grown up in the White House?' Joe stunned by Trump's 'disgusting' Reiner post

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

'Where was any grown up in the White House?' Joe stunned by Trump's 'disgusting' Reiner post To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Do you condemn Trump's post about Rob Reiner? What are your thoughts about what President Trump said about Rob Reiner at his press conference today? I don't do ongoing commentary about everything that's said by everybody in government every day. It's the president of the United States. We're trying to bring down health care costs for the American people. There are very important votes, very important issues, and that's what we're focusing. Speaker, Mike Johnson, once again, deflecting when asked a pretty simple question about something President Trump, posted or said. But other Republicans and conservatives are criticizing the president for mocking

Hollywood legend Rob Reiner's death. We'll go through that and what it could mean. Also ahead, we'll bring you the latest on the search for the suspect in the deadly mass shooting at Brown University after authorities released new videos and photos of the gunmen. And we'll have an update on the investigation into the anti-Semitic terror attack at Bondi B. in Sydney, Australia. Good morning and welcome to Morning, Joe. It is Tuesday, December 16. We'll dive right in. Less than one day after famed filmmaker Rob Reiner and his wife, Michelle, were found dead in their home. President Trump took to social media to mock, insult, and level baseless attacks against the Hollywood legend. The president wrote that the couple passed away, quote,

reportedly due to the anger, Rob caused others through his massive unyielding and incurable affliction with a mind-cripling disease known as Trump derangement syndrome, sometimes referred to as TDS, this is the president's words. He was known to have driven people crazy by his raging obsession of President Donald J. Trump. Police have arrested the couple's own 32-year-old son, Nick Reiner in connection with the killings, holding him without bail on suspicion of murder. Nick has spoken out over the years about struggles with drug addiction and homelessness. There is, of course, no indication politics had anything to do with the deaths. The president then doubled down on his tasteless, inflammatory words when asked by reporters

if he stood by the disgusting post. I wasn't a fan of his at all. He was a deranged person as far as Trump is concerned. He said he knew it was false. In fact, it's the exact opposite that I was a friend of Russia controlled by Russia. You know, it was the Russia hooks. He was one of the people behind it. I think he heard himself in career-wise. He became like a deranged person, Trump derangement syndrome. So I was not a fan of Rob Reiner at all in any way, shape, or form. I thought he was very for our country. There was a lot of reaction to this, really shocked, a negative reaction. Let's run through some of it. Laura Ingram tweeted the following yesterday, quote, Rob Reiner was a legend. His work as an actor and director entertained generations and will live on. We strongly disagreed on politics.

But when I ran into him at a Brentwood restaurant years ago, we had a respectful conversation. And he agreed on the spot to. come in the studio the very next night, my deepest condolences to his family. She linked that tweet to an interview she conducted with the late director. Also on Fox News last night, Jesse Waters addressed the murder of the Reinhers and interviewed actor James Wood, a vocal Trump supporter. Woods offered a- Vote, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead. Woods offered a far different message than what President Trump posted. And when people say horrible things about Rob right now, I find it quite frankly infuriating and distasteful.

Did I agree with his politics? I did not. Did I love him as a friend, as an artist, as an icon of Hollywood, and as a patriot? I most certainly did. And I am just absolutely devastated by this terrible event, especially for his family. You know, James Wood, we all know, he's about as strong of a Donald Trump supporter as you can have. And I will say, it's really quite remarkable when you see somebody who is that critical of Democrats, of people on the left, it's telling. It's not remarkable.

It's telling that that's how the rest of us respond. That's how humanity, people with basic humanity respond. Politics is here. Family problems, especially something that ends in this tragedy, is over here. And there's just been universal damnation of a really sad, a sad, disturbing response and reaction. It's an unthinkable. It's unthinkable. It makes me sad.

It also makes me very worried about who's inside the White House, who not only said, yeah, you should put this out, but then they put it on the official White House account. But you have James Woods, again, really, really hardcore MAGA supporter showing humanity there for Rob Reiner, Laura Ingraham, the same thing. I will say just very briefly that in another lifetime back before Donald Trump was in politics and I was considered very conservative by Hollywood types. I sat next to Rob Reiner and sat next to Rob Reiner and Norman Lear. And these were, of course, two guys that, you know, we grew up left wing, left coast.

And we had very little in common, I will say they were two. They were so, it was at Erin Huffington's place, they were so extraordinarily kind and gracious. Norman Lear, the guy just vilified by people like me on the right for ages. greatest man I've ever met, Rob Reiner. Cannot find. Unbelievably patient and all of my questions about Spinal Tapp. And I just got fun. And I will say his wife kind of rolled her eyes kind of, oh my gosh, here's another guy asking

Rob about Spinal Tapp. But they were just the most gracious people in the world. And, you know, the Laura Ingram thing is very revealing. There are times we will say things with people we disagree. We were at an event last night. there are people that attack us, that disagree with us, and you see them and you talk to them. You know, like, that's just basic core humanity. It seems in this case everybody but the president of the United States seems to have that

humanity and seems to be aching for the Reiner's. And the small group of people around him, as you say, enabling this, if your response to the grisly murder of Rob Reiner and his wife by his child is anything other than horrible, That's a moment of reflection for you. That's a moment for you to look in the mirror. There's a depravity to that. There's a deep, deep insecurity to that, which is, oh, my gosh, I cannot believe what I'm reading. But didn't he say something mean about me once?

I'm going to attack him hours after he was murdered by, allegedly by his own child. There's a sickness, a deep, deep sickness there that was revealed in that post. And then when given a chance later in the day, the president doubled down on it and went on about the Russia investigation and everything else. This is, as you say, Joe, for most of humanity, there's politics where we disagree on things, and we have big, loud fights about those things, and then there's humanity. There's family, and then a murder like this, again, if that's your instinct and that's your response, maybe family needs to check in on you, something is deeply.

I compare to the first Trump term, there's something very different, uninhibited. I don't know. there was something very different. I guess I hate to say this that it's not terribly surprising, is it? I mean, that it's shocking. I was surprised. It's shocking. No question about it.

But then you go, well, yeah, this is kind of what he does when someone politically opposes him. And the fact that we need to stop at the top of our show and point to the obvious, which is people offering condolences and expressing their shock and horror at this as something that needs to be held up in contrast to what our president is saying is a big statement about where we are. Pierce Morgan called the president's post, quote, dreadful, a dreadful thing to say about a man who just got murdered by his troubled son. Delete it, Mr. President, of course, Pierce Morgan has been a supporter of Donald Trump's and their friends. But Reiner was on Morgan's show late September when he reacted to the murder of Charlie Kirk's, the murder of Charlie Kirk with empathy. Watch this. what was your immediate gut reaction to it well horror absolute horror and i unfortunately saw the

video of it and it's uh it's in this it's beyond belief what happened to him and uh that should never happen to anybody i don't care what your political beliefs are that's not acceptable That's not a solution to solving problems. A spokesman for Kirk's group Turning Point USA wrote this. Quote, Rob Reiner responded with grace and compassion to Charlie's assassination. This video makes it all the more painful to hear of he and his wife's tragic end. May God be close to the brokenhearted in this terrible story. Yeah.

Some more reaction from prominent concerns. Conservatives, Russell Moore, the editor at large of Christianity Today, wrote, quote, how this vile, disgusting, and immoral behavior has become normalized in the United States as something our descendants will study in school to the shame of our generation. Editor at the National Review, Ramesh Pannuru, has this one-word response to the president, quote, disgusting. Charles C.W. Cook, another editor at the National Review, posted, quote, that Trump wrote this is insane and disgraceful, that the White House chose to tweet it out is pathological.

And conservative commentator Eric Erickson wrote this, quote, just thinking about the president's reaction to Rob Reiner's death, a relative last night told me he voted for Trump, he likes Trump's policies, but he is exhausted by Trump and embarrassed by the president's behavior. he wished the president would just go off the grid for a while. Instead, we have Trump going off on the murder of Rob Reiner. The president is surrounded by an evangelical team that supposedly prays for him and over him. Never mind that his counsel of spiritual advisors is led by a heretic. There are lots of evangelicals around the man, but they all seem more concerned with what they can get from him and not at all concerned with the state of his soul. and where he will spend eternity beyond this life. This is, again, we talked about James Wood, again, a guy fierce maga supporter, showing empathy for the Reiner. It's for good reason.

Laura Ingram, Jesse Waters, Fox News hosts, Republicans, everybody, just about everybody. But the one that I want to ask you about because you cover the White House is what Charlie Cook with the National Review said. He said for Trump to tweet it out, I think he said it was disgusting for the White House to retweet it was pathological. Tell me how did that happen? We hear about Susie Wiles all the time. I just got to ask, where was Susie Wiles? Where was any grown-up in the White House? Where were they?

Where were they? They had to know that even for this president, who aggressively goes after his critics, who's broken barriers time and time again, but even for this president with the low standards that he's allowed to get by on, somebody in that White House had to know this would cause conservatives,

this would cause his most fierce supporters in the Maga Base to be deeply disturbed at how much it would damage him. This is not about hurting libs. This is about Libs. This is about Donald Trump hurting Donald Trump. Donald Trump hurting the White House. Donald Trump hurting the Magibati, like Eric Erickson said, people in the Maga Base are exhausted by this.

Who is in the White House that can say, Mr. President? You can't send that out. Well, this has been one of our themes in this last month or two, as the President, has really been in a political slump, there's no one in the White House tell him no, and that's by design. Social media account is the president himself, or Dan Skivino, who's one of his longtime advisors. They're the ones who have the keys to this, but someone in the White House response staff, they put it out. The reflection, the reflexive instinct is just to fight, to double down on whatever the president says. This should not be a challenging

moment. This is a moment to be a human, to express sympathy, horror, sadness, and he's simply not able to do it. When that true social post came on, it came just before we came off the air yesterday, I literally gasped on air and I'm the one who always reads the truth social post. I am rarely surprised by what he says. I was yesterday and it was right at the end of the show, so we didn't talk about it then because

it was so outrageous, I thought maybe this one was a hoax. So I'm going to double check this before we talk about it. A lot of his supporters said throughout the day, they thought it was a hoax. And then they came back and they sadly they said sadly, we looked at it. This isn't a hoax. Mr. President, please take this down.

That's from his supporters. Then he said it. Yeah, and that's just it. After hours of outrage about this, including from Republicans, he then, that in the afternoon to reporters doubled down on it. And two things. The only defenders I found of this is a really hardcore. Laura Lumer defended it and a few people like that, but usually even acolytes of President

Trump distanced themselves from this. And we mentioned Charlie Kirk, and I'm glad we played that clip there. Rob Ryder showed such humanity of it. But after Charlie Kirk was killed, let's remember the hunt, the people on the right, went for on about people who dared say anything negative about Charlie Kirk. They should lose their jobs. Right. And now we have the president of the United States take it that much for it.

And that's why, you know, I had to watch a few times, actually, and really understand, or try and understand what's happening. When the president doubled down on this Willie with his words, there seemed to be a shift from maybe his first presidency. Sometimes he would say things that are a little bit off, but there'd be kind of a a twinkle or like a sort of I'm joking, but I'm not. And there was something different here, like a change. And I don't know what it is. And it's to your question, Joe, who in the White House was supposed to be there to stop him? Maybe Willie, they can't. Maybe this is what it is.

They can't or they don't want to. They like being close to power and they're just enabling it. And they know there's nothing they can say to him that will stop him at this point. Let's bring in the conversation, Chief Political Analyst for CBN News, David Brody and author columnist and conservative writer, Matt Lewis. Good morning to you both, David. I'll start with you. What's your sense of the reaction among conservatives? We played a little bit from Fox News hosts, some members of Congress condemning it, though not all Speaker Johnson kind of running away from the microphones as he was asked about this, the man who said of his worldview, go pull the Bible off the shelf and read that. That's my worldview. Couldn't bring himself to condemn this post from

President Trump. What's your sense of the reaction, though? Well, the reaction blanket across MAGA, for the most part, has been, what? What in the world? Please, no more. No moss, if you will. As a matter of fact, I got some text just after that went up on Truth Social, and you know it's bad when people are texting going, is that real? That's not a good sign. Look, there's a lot of consternation and frustration here.

But I think it's important to point this out, Willie, that this is not just a good sign. Trump being Trump? You know, that's always been the excuse. Oh, it's just Trump being Trump. Here's the difference. Well, first of all, let's start with this big difference. There's been a grisly murder with an alleged family member, potentially the one that committed it. Let's start with that. But beyond that, any time that President Trump does this type of stuff being politically incorrect, if you will, everybody chalks it up to Trump being Trump because there is some sort of kind of truth below it all. In other words, it plays to a MAGA, uh, private somewhere, whether it be woke politics or crazy Democrats or whatever you want to call it,

that wasn't present here. And also, President Trump has had his best when he's being funny, you know, and thank you for your attention to this matter and all of that type of stuff. Nothing funny about this. That's the difference. Yeah, Matt Lewis following up on what we just heard from John Lemire. After Charlie Kirk's horrific assassination, you had people saying go through your workplaces and get people fired if they wrote something on Twitter that wasn't complimentary. You noted this yesterday, and here we have, my gosh, well, I'll let you talk about it. We have something here that's just beyond the pale.

Absolutely, right. Look, I do think that Donald Trump, this is a little bit, this is different, but there have been other examples where Donald Trump did things similar to this. When John McCain, you know, a hero, P-O-W, when he died, Donald Trump was critical of him. When Nancy Pelosi's husband was attacked with a hammer, Donald Trump mocked him. So I don't let the MAGA supporters off quite so easy. Maybe Rob Reiner was just more beloved than other figures. I think that's totally possible.

Maybe Donald Trump didn't do it with the same twinkle in his eye or humor that he has done before. but we have known all along this is a narcissist with nuclear codes. And so if you voted for him, I don't think you should be all that shocked that he said this or did this. I do think it's part of his ML. But Joe, as you mentioned, there's also the hypocrisy, right? I mean, not that long ago, we saw Charlie Kirk's murder. And I think there was outrage that people were going online and mocking this, taking an opportunity to score political points. And J.D. Vance went on Charlie Kirk's podcast and said, if you see someone, you know, celebrating Charlie's death, push back, you know, call them out. And then he said, don't just do that. Call their employer. Well, I don't know who we're going to call to report Donald Trump. I guess we're his employer. And maybe that's part of the problem is that his employers have elected him now twice. But there is hypocrisy. We had this whole.

whole conversation after Charlie Kirk's murder, and I think rightly so, about rhetoric and our responsibility to kind of cool things down. And now here we have the president of the United States, the guy with nuclear codes, who is on this vengeance tour. And I think he thinks, you know, attacking a murdered person is Trump's version of moral clarity or something, or staying on message. It is bizarre. But I'm not as surprised as ever. everyone else. Because this, this is the guy that we have elected twice. And David Brody, I think this really hit a lot of people so hard. Roder is such a beloved character. And also for so many Americans, his politics aren't the first things you think about. Like, of course

not. He's a filmmaker. He's an actor. He's a beloved figure. And this, I think, why President Trump's words also hit hard. It came after this weekend where we also had this, the massacre in Australia, the anti-Semitic attack there. They're shooting at Brown. So you have always had your finger really well on the pulse of the Maga movement. And you say there's a lot of real revulsion at this. What do you think happens next? Do people are going to sort of write this off as a one-off and get right back to him? Or do you think this continues to sort of fray the connection between some of the people who really have loved the president the most, but are outraged by what he said yesterday? I think they're deflated in the short term, but like ultimately

where are they going to go, right? What are they going to do? And that's always been kind of like the backup, if you will. We've had this discussion before. But, but, but, but, more than that, let's remember, and I don't want to liken it to a case of food poisoning, but if you think about it for a second, it's like if you had a bad batch of Oreos, and in this case, it was not a very good tasting Oreo at all, but it's still an Oreo, and you'll come back because they think that President Trump is getting indeed so much accomplished. I can go through the list of immigration and woke politics and Israel. I mean, there's tons of stuff that this president has done that MAGA approves of.

So I think that's important. Also, let's remember, you are able to distinguish. pretty much from a psychological perspective, many times people are able to distinguish between the flaws of an individual and the greatness, in their view, MAGA will believe, the greatness of, in this case, this president. They think he's done a lot of good things. They are able to separate it. I mean, look at LBJ and FDR. I mean, FDR, well, let's talk with LBJ was not the, how did we say this? He was a little bit crude, shall we say that? But it was more done in private. It wasn't done as much in public. Imagine if LBJ had Twitter, so to speak, today. My goodness gracious, he wouldn't last week there.

Well, he certainly didn't. I can't remember any president, any national figure celebrating are justifying the gruesome murder of their gruesome murder. There's no parallel to that. I'm just making the point, Joe, that the flaws, that Maga can see the flaws in a president in this case and the priorities that he's accomplishing. And Democrats do it too. This is a bipartisan situation. So I think that's just important to point out. All right, David Brody, thank you so much. I've never seen anything like this.

I don't. There is no parallel. I've never seen a president use his bully pulpit to try to turn a grisly murder and a personal tragedy somehow into political advantage. John Dickerson for the Atlantic writes, Trump widens the breach. And speaking of how there was, you know, this people thinking of Rob Reiner first as a movieman and not a political figure, Dickerson writes, quotes Mary Catherine Hamm, a conservative writer who lauded the director and actor. Reiner was a VHS king, a filmmaker whose movies, few, themselves to childhoods, relationships, and formative memories.

The Prince's Brides stand by me when Harry met Sally. Dickerson writes, even people who disagreed with Reiner's politics had lived inside worlds he helped create. His death, therefore, moved beyond private tragedy into a collective recognition about a set of shared reference points. That is what opens the window, common memory, common shock, common vulnerability. and John Dickerson goes on to say that window was open and Donald Trump just could not walk through it

and he compares John Dickerson compares yesterday to Erica Kirk who had every reason to be upset, enraged, to lash out. Instead, she showed forgiveness. She was a credit to her beliefs. her Christianity, that is, and again, she's not the President of the United States. The expectations are not as high for others, but the President of the United States had this opportunity open onto him, and tragically, he just couldn't do it. And I've got to say,

again, let me just underline, no president. No president has ever plumbed these depths. No president has ever celebrated or tried to make political points out of the gruesome murder of people inside their own. No. Your point about Erica Kirk is a really good one because just days after the horrifying public assassination of her husband, she got on a stage in front of a massive crowd and said, I forgive the shooter. I forgive the shooter through my Christian faith.

I forgive the shooter. At that same event, the president of the United States came on stage minutes later. and said, I'm not so forgiving, and said, I hate my enemies. And that's sort of what's instructive here, John, which is that he views everything first through his own ego, which is Rob Reiner and his wife were murdered in a grisly way, allegedly by their own son. Oh, wait, he didn't like me, though. So I'm going to attack him hours after his murder.

No, you make the great point about the Erica Kirk Memorial and what Trump said then. But you're right. First of all, Trump just has the need to make everything about himself. You know, he inserts himself into every possible conversation fast as American life. And he does. It's always, it's black or white, zero sum. I have my political friends. I have political enemies. And he misses no opportunity to go on the attack, including this savagery, this tragedy of what happened in this family home. And you know who at the end of the day is the biggest loser. Of course, American people are. But he is. Politically, he is. He is.

Republican Party is. Because again, they're in a world of hurt right now politically. They're scrambling to try to figure out how to not get wiped out. next year because of health care, because of just how unpopular the big beautiful bill was, as they call it. They're scrambling, and this is what they have to deal with on Capitol Hill. I mean, it keeps getting in the way. He's talking yesterday when we have just inexplicable series of tragedies that I've got to say yesterday was one of the tougher shows that we've done in a long time where you start with an anti-Semitic slaughter during Hanukkah, the killing. of two young, bright, wonderful students at Brown

and then the grisly murder of a beloved Hollywood figure. And what's he doing in the White House but talking about the Ark? It's going to be bigger than the Arc to Triumph in Paris. And so he's talking about that. He's Rob Reiner. He's talking about big ballrooms.

He's tearing down the White. This is, this, for Republicans, this is really bad for Republicans. Republicans. This isn't about owning the libs. Right now, he is owning the Republicans. He is owning the MAGA base. That's what he's doing. It's already been a nightmarish couple of months politically for President Trump and Republicans. This will just add to it. I guess I'll also just add to say this, that I think some Republicans probably found the courage to speak out against what Trump said yesterday because he does seem so diminished and weakened now. The last few

months has really taken a toll on his standing, even in the party. And we're seeing more Republicans feel like they have the space to say no, to say they disagree with him. Well, that's what has been happening in this case, at least. As for the investigation into Reiner's death, let's bring in MS Now National Reporter David Noriega, live in Los Angeles. David, what is the latest following the arrest of their son? Guys, good morning. Here's what we know about the investigation and what we are looking forward to today here in Los Angeles. Nick Reiner is in the custody of the LA County Sheriff's Department. The LAPD yesterday in an official statement said that their investigation concluded that Nick Reiner was responsible for his parents' murder. That's their word. However,

at some point today, we expect the LAPD to hand their evidence over to the L.A. County district attorney's office, at which point charges will be filed in court. A lot of us are looking forward to that because we still need a lot of detail. about what exactly happened here. There are a lot of unanswered questions. There's a lot of potentially relevant background around Nick Reiner's biography. His past, we know that ever since he was a teenager, since he was about 15 years old, he has struggled with addiction. He has spoken very openly about his addiction specifically to cocaine and heroin. He has estimated in interviews that he was in and out of rehab 18 or so times, that he was homeless at times.

That last point is important because as he described it, and also as his father, Rob Reiner described it, in the context of interviews that they both gave around a film that they worked on together dealing with issues of addiction and father-son relationships. They said that Nick's addiction problems created conflict in their household between Nick and his parents, and that there were situations in which Nick resisted going to the rehab programs that his parents wanted him to go to. And in those instances, at times, he wound up homeless.

Now, all of this is, of course, relevant background, but we still don't know what the exact connection is between this story, this biography, and the inconceivable thing that happened over the weekend. We don't know what mental state Nick Reiner was in. We don't know whether he was sober or on some kind of substance. And we are all looking for answers to try to understand how this possibly could have happened. We are hoping that as this case moves through the judicial system and as charges are filed in court and as the DA presents the evidence that the police have gathered in the case and any additional evidence that they might gather, we might begin to answer some. I don't think this is necessarily an answerable question, but we might

begin to get a little bit more of an answer as to how something this difficult to understand could have happened. All right. MS. Now national reporter, David Norega, thank you very much for your reporting. And Matt Lewis, before you go, final thoughts this morning. Right. So I go back to the Charlie Kirk murder. And I think people being rightly outraged, you shouldn't be celebrating this. This is a national tragedy. It was horrific. And just where is it the compassion?

Where is it the decency? And J.D. Vance said, if you see someone celebrating, call their boss. And do you know there were, according to, I think this was Reuters, there were like 600 Americans who were punished for saying something untoward about Charlie Kirk. In one case, there was a teacher from South Carolina. And all she did was post Charlie Kirk's own words, what he had to say about school shootings, she was fired. Now we have what those are our expectations for a kindergarten teacher that they should be fired if they say something, you know, untoward about a tragedy. This is the president of the United States.

What should our standards be for that office, for the dignity of that office, for calling us to our better angels? And so I'm sorry, this whole thing about like, well, you know, this is Trump, this is who Trump is, and the voters, the voters can separate his policies from, no, as a conservative, its character is destiny. Now, you know, it's so amazing, Matt, I know you'll remember this. It's so amazing during the Clinton administration, all we heard, all I heard from people in my own party is you cannot separate character from the presidency. I heard it every single day on the floor of the House of Representatives. Conservative writers would write books about it, nonstop, would go back and quote their books that they wrote about virtues, right? Whatever Bennett's book was, the book of virtues. You know, Peggy Noonan, who's critical of Donald Trump now, you know, when character was king or when character mattered, like character, character, character, character, character, it's all conservatives talked about. It's all Republicans talked about when Bill Clinton was president. It's all they talked about. Now, you should say, oh, well, you know, we can separate. No, you can't. No, the president sets the tone. Whether it's Bill Clinton or whether it's Barack Obama or whether it's Donald Trump, the president,

sets the tone. Matt, thank you so much greatly. Appreciate it. And this, somehow, trying to segregate the two is just ridiculous. And also, anybody that would preach moral equivalency right now is so desperately, so desperately, just lurching for any justification, for something that is unjustifiable. Listen again to the most conservative host out there. They will say, It's not justifiable, especially from a Christian point of view. It's where we turn for inspiration and for love and humanity. And Donald Trump, never understanding when Nancy Pelosi said, I pray for the president. He goes, no, she, yeah.

Somebody that doesn't understand that you pray for those who would persecute you. You pray for your political enemies. That's not a request by Jesus. That's an order. That's a commandment. And it's something he doesn't grasp. It's something he'll never grasp. And I'm just wondering about these evangelicals that want to forgive or want to, they should forgive.

They should pray for the president. I pray for the president all the time. They should, though, they should hold the president, not do a higher standard, hold the standard that they supposedly live by Jesus's standard. Yeah, and the standard here is don't attack a man who was just murdered alongside his wife, allegedly by his son in his own home. Forget that he's a beloved figure by Americans everywhere. Everywhere. MAGA fans love when Harry met Sally and Spinal Tap and the Princess Bride and a few good men and all that. So forget the celebrity part.

That is important to this. But just be a decent human being. And it's, I can't believe we're saying this out loud, don't attack someone who was just murdered. And to your point about evangelicals, how many times have we heard the case? We elected a president, not a saint. But where's the line? Yeah. You can forgive some of it.

You feel like he's protecting your rights. He's protecting your church. But where is the line? Is there not a line? What example do you want to show to your congregation? What example do you want to show to your children? Where is the line? I mean, we found it today.

I don't know. I would say he's doing just the opposite. He is not protecting the church. Right. He's just not. If you believe in the red letters, if you believe in the Gospels, that's what he did yesterday.

You're not protecting the church. It's tearing it down. All right. We'll continue this conversation still ahead on morning, We'll also get the very latest out of Australia, where we're learning more about the two gunmen who opened fire during a Hanukkah celebration. We'll get a live report from Sydney. Plus, the manhunt continues this morning for the Brown University gunman. MS now, investigative reporter Mark Santia, standing by for us in Providence.

Morning, Joe, we'll be back in just a moment. In Australia, mourners continue to. to gather at a makeshift memorial in Sydney following the deadly anti-Semitic attack at Bondi Beach over the weekend. Fifteen people were killed and more than two dozen remain hospitalized six in critical condition after two gunmen opened fire during a Hanukkah celebration on Sunday. Officials are calling it a terrorist attack designed to target Jewish people. Australia's prime minister says the gunmen were inspired by Islamic State. After police say they found a pair of homemade Islamic State flags in a car belonging to one of the suspects. Authorities have identified them as a father and son.

The 50-year-old father was fatally shot at the scene. The 24-year-old son suffered critical injuries and is currently in the hospital. Additionally, Australian police say they are investigating a recent trip. Authorities say the two suspects took to the Philippines to receive. quote, military-style training. Let's go live to Sydney and Sky News correspondent Cordelia Lynch, Cordelia. What is the latest that you're hearing on the investigation? Good morning to you, Mika, from a city, still in mourning, still reeling from the horrifying

attacks that took place here. We are beginning to hear to understand more about the motivations and the movements of the alleged attackers. One, Navid Akram, 24, has now, Sky News understands from sources within the police here, emerged from his coma. Police, of course, very keen to speak with him. We're also hearing a little bit about the weeks leading up to this attack and where the men were. Now, we have had confirmed by authorities both here in Australia and in the Philippines that the men took, a trip there that they spent weeks there inside. We've spoken to military and intelligent sources

as well who have confirmed to us that they first arrived in Davao City. They then moved onto the southern island of Mindanao. Now, they entered the country on November 1st. They left on the 28th. Mindanao is significant because that is a place that has been connected as a hotbed of extremism. It's been home to many notorious militants. And our sources are telling us that police there are probing possible connections with a specific terror group in a place called Morawi Linau del Sur. Now, exactly what that connection might have been, what those men were doing. There are reports of them possibly taking part in military training. Our sources say it's not yet clear how coordinated that might have been or the individuals they may have reacted with.

But that is the line of investigation they are pursuing and the Australian authorities obviously cooperating with them as well. It must be said that the two men entered on two different passports. Sajid, the father, moved in on an Indian passport, his son, on an Australian one. They are the facts, the details of the investigation. I think the sentiment that we are seeing, really solidifying here, is frustration and a great deal of anger as well amongst the Jewish community, a lot of criticism leveled at the door of the Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese. Many say that there was precedent for this. There were warnings. There were other attacks, both in Sydney and in Melbourne as well, and people did not feel protected.

Anthony Albanese said that he was trying to put in some guardrails, in place, that he is trying to fight anti-Semitism, that this will not divide the nation. But there is criticism. He didn't respond to some of the recommendations of how to protect people. Some of a deep policy

change that would have happened on college campuses in schools as well. And so I think we will see in the days to come, him facing more questions around that. Sky News correspondent Cordelia Lynch reporting live for us in Sydney. Thank you.

you very much for your reporting. Back here at home, the suspect who shot and killed two students at Brown University on Saturday, wounding nine others, remains at large this morning as the manhunt now enters its third day. Police and Providence and the FBI have released new photos and video of a person of interest wearing a pullover jacket, black skull cap, and a face mask. Police say the gunman specifically targeted Brown, though a motive is still under investigation. A man initially detained was released after ballistics did not match the weapon found with him. Meanwhile, we're learning more about two of the victims of the attack. 19-year-old Ella Cook was the vice president of the Brown College Republicans chapter

and 18-year-old Mukamed Aziz Amoro Kuzov appeared to be a neurosurgeon. Joining us live from Providence Now, MS Now investigative reporter Mark Santia. Mark, good morning. What's the latest in the pursuit? of the alleged shooter here? Good morning. It has been nearly three days since a gunman walked into the engineering building

behind me and opened fire. You see that growing memorial. There's also growing concern in the community and understandably so. There is an armed gunman believed to be armed on the loose. No one in custody at this point. We want to get right to some video

that was released by police and the FBI yesterday. This is some of the clearest video we have seen released since the shooting. That is the belief gunman there in dark clothing just turning around walking this video shot two hours this was taken two hours before the shooting here on the campus of brown police believe he was stalking milling about the neighborhood that's just a couple minutes from the building here just a short distance away again this is the clearest video you see him with his hands behind his back walking around

wearing those dark clothing there now there's also a new request by police this morning they're reaching out to the student body, saying if any students were inside the building here, the engineering building, not only Saturday, the day of the shooting, but the day before, they want to speak to you immediately. There's obviously some belief by investigators that the gunman had been in the area for some time, possibly hours before, if not the day before. You're also taking a look at video, some old school police work being done by the FBI's evidence response team, boots on the ground. They're going back, searching the area, doing a grid search of the area. They started yesterday at the engineering building, and they walked each entrance, just looking, searching

through the bushes, searching through the grass, seeing if there's any piece of evidence that may have been missed, maybe a piece of DNA, something that they can send down to the lab at Quantico that can be run down and tested. That's what they've been doing all afternoon. There's also behind the scenes work. There's a command center where tips are flowing in, we're told, every tip being vetted. And right now, the FBI is putting up a $50,000 reward, a reward for any information leading to the identity, to the arrest, and the conviction of the gunman. We'll send it back to you. Mark, just quickly before we let you go, what was the story behind the release of that initial person of interest? We all woke up on Sunday morning to report on this, and the community

obviously was relieved. They lifted the shelter in place. They thought they had the guy. So how did that unravel? So investigators say they were working on a very credible tip. They went to a hotel room. They detained a person of interest. Throughout the day, there was some physical evidence they found. Law enforcement sources tell us they were very confident on what they found. But as they continued their investigation, they learned that physical evidence wasn't enough

to bring charges. They don't believe at this time that person of interest was the person they were looking for. And so, obviously, because they couldn't bring charges, they released him. MS now is Mark Santee, reporting live from Providence, Mark, thanks so much. As we look at the criminal angle of this, we think about the two young people, a beautiful, 19-year-old, brilliant young woman, a pianist from Mountain Brook in Birmingham, Alabama, and then this freshman Mukamed, who was 18 years old, wanted to be a brain surgeon because he had an experience in his youth with neurosurgy and was inspired to that pursuit.

two brilliant minds filled senselessly inside a classroom. And Fram Saea from Mountain Brook was, she was a remarkable human being, sweet, loving. She's a Christian pianist, incredibly talented. She was, I think, the vice president of the Republican club there. People commented that she was made friends with everybody, very open-minded. And then Mukhammed, again, two young students, incredibly gifted and from all accounts, incredibly loving, from two completely different worlds and their lives cut short. Mukhammed from Uzbekistan, but people said he was also just a wonderful giving person.

These are the best of us right here. And these are lives that are ended far too soon. Yeah, Mohamed was, you know, he had had brain surgery as a child, so he devoted his life. I want to do that. I benefited from this. I want to be able to learn this and teach this so I can do this and help, help others. He was in that room when the gummen opened fire. It wasn't even his class.

He was joining a friend for a review session. He just happened to be there at that time. And his family didn't find out apparently for hours as to his fate. But just truly, I mean, our heart breaks, of course, for their families for the community there. and Brown. I know a lot of people who were upset, touched by this, and who were still very alarmed, of course, that this gunman still remains at large. At large. We turn now to the International Rescue Committee out this morning with its annual watch list for the upcoming year, and it is sounding the alarm on what it calls a dangerous divergence from Gaza to Sudan, Haiti,

and other areas covered in the report the global support systems created to help in humanitarian crises are being scaled down or stripped completely of funding. The IRC itself had to cut $400 million from its budget this past year. In its report, the committee said that while U.S. funding cuts represent the largest in scale and impact, other governments have retreated from their support for global aid as well. Joining us now to talk about what this means and what the consequences are, the president and CEO of the International Rescue Committee,

former UK Foreign Secretary David Miliband. David, thank you so much for being with us. You know, I saw yesterday someone comment, I think was McKay Coppins, a conservative writer, comment that actually 20, 30 years from now people may look back and see that the slashing of funds of the United States does to help the poorest of God's creatures across this planet

may actually be one of the first. the things that this year's remembered most for. Talk about the significance of the richest man in the world standing on stage and wielding a chainsaw and proudly proclaiming that America has gutted support for the poorest of God's creatures. Well, thanks, Joe. Thanks, Mika. You're absolutely right to call out this contrast because the world's richer than it's ever been before. It has more resources to do more good, but the poorest people in the world are suffering. Our report covers the 20 countries in greatest humanitarian need in the year ahead. They're just 12% of the global population, but 85% of the people in humanitarian need.

They depend on aid agencies to survive, live in those countries. And I think the absolute core of it is summed up in the fact that humanitarian aid, that's the most basic help. It's literally water and sanitation, malnutrition treatment, has gone from just a $25 billion a year ago to about $12.5.13 billion this year globally. So it's been halved as part of a much bigger assault on the aid sector. And the people who suffer are those people who I met in Somalia just last week, who I met in Sudan in September, who I met in South Sudan earlier in the year. They're people who are the victims of war and disaster. And they are concentrated in these countries that desperately need help.

The way I'd sum it up is that we used to a world where there were rules and there were rights for individuals. What we're saying is that at the moment, the rules are no longer there and the rights for individuals are just being lost. David, good morning. As you say, this administration does not view the benefit of broadly soft power, you could argue, but more specifically of foreign aid with the cuts to USAID. Can you make the case to our viewers and perhaps to,

many the representatives are watching in Washington, why that is so important, not just for the countries that receive the aid, but for the countries who give it. Thanks, Willie. I think there are two reasons that I always come back to. The first is that we are a connected world. One of the most shocking statistics in the report is there have been 59 measles outbreaks around the world just in the last year. We were on top of measles. We were getting the better of it. This connected world doesn't respect borders. So there's a strategic argument here. that humanity is connected across borders and it needs to address problems across borders

because if you don't address the problems, the problems come to you. Secondly, I don't want to shy away from the moral argument that Joe made at the beginning. The richest people in the world have a duty to help the poorest people in the world. And I just want to maybe give it in this very dark moment you've been covering it today.

The polling shows 89% of Americans, including 84% of Republicans, 94% of Democrats. They support the spending of 1% of the people. federal budget on overseas aid. That used to be the level. That's what's being cut. And so we need to go back to the heart and the head of American interests.

I mean, John, it's billionaires, billionaires, billionaires, billionaires who are taking great pride in gutting food assistance for the poorest of God's children. children, billionaires, and they're quite proud of themselves. Yeah, a billionaire who wielded a chainsaw on stage. Billionaire sits in the West Wing. Certainly, you know, David, with the United States pulling back, are there other entities, whether it's other governments across the world, private organizations? I mean, no one can fill the vacuum left by the U.S., but who is trying to step up to help?

Well, the anchor of the global system, which is what the U.S. represented, has been pulled up. And when you pull up the anchor on a boat, a lot of passengers get very sick. We are seeing some European countries sustain their interest, the European Union, obviously. But I have to say this to you, the Chinese are moving in too. This is not just a, this is a new world order out there. And when there is a vacuum caused when America or the Western world retreats, there's plenty of others willing to move in. I do want to call out our private supporters have stepped up in the most remarkable way over the last year.

Yes, we've lost $400 million, as you said. yes, we've had to lose 6,000 staff, but we're an organization on the front foot. We're innovating, using AI to do health diagnosis to help teach kids. We're actually hiring in some of the most, the toughest places like Sudan, where we now have 500 people working for us, thanks to the generosity of our private supporters. So I think it's very, very important. This new world disorder is a phrase, not a fate, and we've got to fight that fate. The International Rescue Committee's full report is available to read at dotrescue.org, president and CEO of the International Rescue Committee, foreign U.K., foreign secretary,

former U.K. Foreign Secretary, David Miliband, thank you very much. Thank you, David. Thank you, Joe. And let me say again, what I've said all the long, this isn't just about us helping the poorest of the poor. It's also about the United States helping the United States. Exactly. You know, when we provide food aid and, and you know this, and it's China stepping into this gap. And so China's now getting basically winning hearts and minds, but whether we were in the Ivory Coast or whether we were giving aid to Sedan, wherever we were giving aid, we were getting intel on the ground.

So, yeah, soft power, but soft power helped hard power. Softower helped our Intel agencies get Intel on the ground to see what the Chinese were doing, to see what the Russians were doing, to see what those who considered the United States an enemy was doing. And the stupidity of wielding a chainsaw and cutting foreign aid, the stupidity of that. Forget the cruelty. It is first order cruel, but the stupidity and cutting off this ability to get intel on the ground. from some of the most dangerous places on the planet is just beyond. Even setting aside the humanitarian angle, which, of course, we cannot.

Yes, it's the idea of losing intel. It's the idea of losing the ability to spread American values and democracy around the world. They've ceded, this administration has ceded huge swathes of the globe to China and others. They will rush in to fill that void. Their influence will grow. And that is help.rescue.org.