MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Alexander Volkanovski Explains Why Scrambling Opponents' Brains Has Made Him Champion | UFC 273

Episode Date: April 5, 2022

At UFC 273, UFC featherweight champion Alexander Volkanovski will defend his title against Chan Sung Jung (the Korean Zombie). Before that, however, he stopped by MK to talk about that fight and the unique style he's developed that's put him at the top of the division. In this interview with Luke Thomas, he explains how his style of fighting 'scrambles the brains' of his opponents based on the overload of reads he forces them to make. Volkanovski also talked about the significance of his win over Jose Aldo, what beating the Korean Zombie would add to his resume or legacy, who he favors in the bantamweight title fight between Aljamain Sterling and Petr Yan plus so much more. Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit:morning kombat.store   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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you I'm very good man I'm very good how are. I'm very good. How are you? I'm good. I'm very delighted to talk to you. All right, Alex, let's start with this part of the conversation. When you very first began to train, as all fighters do, you're just learning techniques, how to throw a jab, defend a double, blah, blah, blah. But over time, you learn what works for you and you develop a more cohesive style, right? You have a certain style now. At what point in your fighting journey did you realize you were going to end up

with the style that you're using to both win and maintain UFC championship? When did you get to that point? Man, it's tricky because over time, it just slowly changes. A lot of it's going to be a similar similar sorry uh approach of how i mold things together and things like that but at the same time you add like little tools and like you look at uh fights earlier in my career compared to now you're probably going to see a

more striking heavy uh side of things but still the the same rules apply in in a sense like you know with the pressure and you, obviously scrambling the brain and all that type of sort of stuff. But, man, I don't know. It's something that me and Joe, my coach, Joe Lopez, we've just moulded together. Like, you know, I think it's just through time and training together. It's sort of hard to explain because I know exactly what you're talking about.

But at the same time, I couldn't tell you, I couldn't pick a day when that happened. But, I mean, through time, we could just – that's what a lot of people say. What's something that's – like, you know, because me and Joe are so close. You know, what is it? It's just he knows me. Nobody knows me better than my coach, Joe Lopez. So, you know, my whole, you know, my whole style,

like nobody knows my style more than Joe. And that's something that we've molded together through time, you know, might not be the craziest techniques, you know, spin shit and all that type of stuff, but the right tool for the right job, you know what I mean? That's how I am, you know, I'll have a look, see what's happening and pick my shots and just scramble their brain while I'm doing it. I want to get back to the scrambling of the brain part, but staying with your coach, Joe Lopez, for just a second. So in boxing, you'll have certain kinds of coaches where, you know, for example, when

Tyson Fury went to the Cronk gym, he was looking for something that that gym was known to offer. That style, so to speak, was known to offer. But other coaches are like, let's just take what you're good at and make it more of that. So do other Joe Lopez fighters fight kind of like you or unique, even among Joe Lopez fighters? Definitely. Definitely similar. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's more of a, more of a style. We obviously train hard.

You know, we've got all, uh uh you need to be uh pretty tough to to be able to put up with the shit we do in the gym you know what i mean and the standard we have um when you're obviously you know in the workouts and things like that but yeah i think it's pretty similar we definitely have a similar sort of a style a lot of us um but then you're right like you know there are times where you know we would go to other gyms and then you would obviously pick up certain things we've always been a more of a grappling heavy type of gym so we're you know wrestling grappling heavy and pressure type of gym where obviously you go to other gyms like i've been a thailander you know when you know working

on your muay thai and things like that And then obviously city kickboxing with some striking and things like that. But again, just adding tools to this formula that we've sort of created. All right. Let's get back now, as I mentioned, to the scrambling of the brains part. So this is something in your style that has been really fascinating to watch because it has worked at the very highest level over numerous times. Like there's simply no denying the body of evidence at this point fair to say for folks who may not understand what we're talking about fair to say that among your many things that you do with your style one of them is you force opponents to compute a series of decisions in a certain time frame that they

can't possibly compute you're you're asking them to problem solve by reading clues and then changing the game as soon as they do fair or unfair oh yeah yeah definitely uh that's uh you know you will see a lot of movement uh but i'm the type of guy that obviously i'm playing what's in front of me as well uh there's going to be reads i'm getting uh you know without giving too much away or there's going to be openings I'm getting, you know, without giving too much away, or there's going to be openings that I'm going to see while I'm, you know, definitely, you know, scrambling and keeping them busy. And, you know, even though they might be thinking they're making the right decisions,

I'm picking them off while they're making these decisions that they think is the right decision. Or they might not even make a decision. They might just be habits that they're doing, we're picking up on, and we're making them pay for. So it's a – yeah, man, it's a tricky one. But, I mean, it's like when you train like that, it comes apart of your style

rather than something that each step I do, each fake I do, each movement I do isn't really a, oh, I i'm gonna do this because of this i'm gonna do you know i mean it's gonna be hard to obviously process things while i'm doing a million things at once but at the same time i've uh built that into this game that i have where it's a part of the style rather than something that i have to do so while i'm uh scrambling their brain as a part of my style right right? I am getting reads. I'm picking up openings and things like that. And yeah, so it's definitely a big part of it.

You know what I mean? You'll see a lot of people in Hawaii, you know, you shut them down, nullify a lot of things that they're doing through certain things that we do and then take the openings that are given you know scramble their brain bit i'm scramble the brain like how i am right now from jet lag i'm like confusing myself as we speak right now i appreciate you working through that chap well here's why i think it's just so interesting right i mean this is why that style works because it's built off of something unchangeable which is there even the smartest person, even the very best fighter, there is only so much that the human brain can compute in a single amount of time, 5 seconds, 10 seconds, whatever it is.

There's only so much computation that can happen in that. So you can rely on that as something that biology just will not fix for your opponent and then on top of it once they begin to think oh i've watched tape on alex i've seen he likes these combos you can simply switch up all the combos to something new and the style still works well that's exactly right so uh it's funny because people are going to be i'm going to do this because of this but they don't realize my style is if you do this i do you know what i mean i've usually got different answers for whatever your answers are going to be you know what i mean so that's like uh i know you guys are you guys dive right into it so you guys get a good understanding of it so there's always a layers

of it you know what i mean you give me something there's going to be a few options that i can take from there um you know where a lot of people like, he's going to do this. Obviously, there's going to be habits. Everyone has habits. But I feel like in offense and defense, I try not to have too many habits. You know what I mean? I'm constantly changing things. I don't want to be very repetitive. You know what I mean?

Because, you know, people can get reads. So, while people are trying to get reads, they just can't keep up because I'm keeping them too busy. I'm changing things up too much for them. And then I'm making them pay every time, you know, they think they might be getting a read or something like that. I quickly change that and be like, oh, you know. And you can see that.

Honestly, you can see that in some of your opponent's faces, you know, even early in the fights. And, you know, they might be thinking they're doing something then they're like you know you could just see him like trying to figure it out and then they're just almost you know their face is just a emotionless like you know what sort of what's going on it's hard to explain but you can see that sometimes where again people are going to have a game plan going in and then i can quickly take that away from them all right so last question about this what is the hardest part about that style? Right? Because it seems like you'd have to have a

lot of good cardio, you know, just to be able to implement it. The other part is I've seen a lot of other people in MMA that do a lot of moving, but it's not as convincing. So it also seems to be like part of your style is you've got to good cardio obviously but you have to be a convincing salesman of the fakes and the faints otherwise you're just moving to move is that is that accurate yeah man you can move and then just for the sake of it but i mean you can be you can move and be calculating your movements and not every move like i don't you know every movement doesn't have to be a a big from your opponent. But it can be just, again, it can be a part of the confusion. It can be a part of a certain thing that you're doing just to maybe change up later. You know what I mean?

There's still purpose to things that I've done where some people just move for the sake of it. You'll see them out of range and then just constantly move. And where I feel like it's very, like, what's the point of being way out because you can't do nothing there and they can't do nothing there. You're just purely moving for the, for the sake of it where it's sort of hard to explain, but, but at the same time, I want to be, even though I feel like I'm doing a lot of movement, I'm at a good range. I still feel like I'm putting the pressure on because I'm still at a,

at a spot where they know I can touch them because I have and things like that. But at the same time, while they're trying to adjust, I'm like keeping them on edge, just constantly keeping them on edge. I'm going to – you know, this is something because you were touching on it before. And again, I know you guys, I like to dive deep in it. But someone like Aldo was a good example, and I think you will appreciate this, where he's so well-trained, where every movement,

you know, he's always in the perfect position. You know, like, you know, you move an inch to the left, he's going to have to, he has to adjust and be that perfect. You move an inch back, he's an inch forward. You know, he's always there. He's always where he's most, where, you know, the range is comfortable at, the inch forward you know he's always there he's always where he's most where you know the range is comfortable at the base you know he's he's grounded he's powerful he's balanced he's always there so it's very hard to get him out of position um you know what i mean because he's always adjusting but it was something that uh that we used against him knowing that if i go

somewhere he has to adjust and he's not even going to mean it. He's just going to do it as a, you know, that's just going to be a part of a, that's just how his system works. You know what I mean? I move to the left, he has to adjust. So as he's moving to the left, I'm getting him as he's going, getting to that spot and things like that. You know what I mean? So that was a good example of, you know, calculated movements.

You know what I mean? So I'm doing these movements to keep them busy, not giving them time to, you know, keep him time. This is for Aldo specifically because, again, you stand in front of him and let him work. He's obviously a counter punch. That's why he's always powerful too because he's always in the perfect position.

But I just wanted to always get him out of position, which was hard, but that's why you had to keep him moving and then go. I think you use this term of in between steps. Half beat is my favorite term. Is that your term? Yeah. So like, you know, just things like that. So it was a, that was a good example of using, again,

like these people, like they think they're doing the right thing. Yeah. They don't even know that they're doing that. They they're trying to figure things out they don't really know that i'm keeping so occupied with what i'm doing and then picking my shots as i go so they literally and then by the end of it they're like going oh i don't know what happened you know what i mean i was like going yeah i do i know exactly what happened that's exactly what happened you know what i mean but uh but yeah so it's uh again there's going to be movement there's going to be reasons uh for that movement you know what i mean there's

there's got to be method to that madness right you don't want to just be moving for the sake of it you're moving not even knowing what you're going to do and then you don't even know what they're going to do but you're just moving just so you're not standing still i probably would say to someone that was just doing that you may as well stay still so you're more dangerous and powerful. You know what I mean? If you're going to just be constantly moving just for the sake of it and not really knowing what to do with it because you're going to be putting yourself out of position.

It's going to be hard to counter. It's going to be hard to take down, defend, take down. It's going to be hard to do all that type of stuff because you're getting yourself out of position because you're not being calculated in your your approach of that movement which of your wins uh because you have many good ones obviously the last one ortega was that that okay so let's start there the ortega win to me seems like one of those wins where in terms of what the fan base and the larger community thought about it was unimpeachable? There was just no way to deny you that one. Which of your other wins do you feel like perhaps is not deserving

of the respect that it gets? You bring up Aldo. That's one of the wins that I feel like really pushed you on the path to where you got, and no one says anything bad about it, but I don't know if they herald it as important as it was. Where do you look on that scale? Yeah, that's probably one right there because uh that was uh that was still a while ago as well so that was me uh

with that movement and all that it wasn't a big part of my my game at the time um and i'll sort of get used to that style right and uh so with that fight obviously to nullify someone like um aldo again people aren't going to really see they're not going to know the things that were the details that i'm explaining to you and that you might have seen a lot of the the people might not understand that they're just going to see that not as much happened but they don't really understand the the technique and the strategy behind what i was doing but it was it was a good one because I felt like I had to play a character that whole fight. You know what I mean?

So I was on edge as well because, again, this movement was sort of new to me at the time and keeping busy and all that type of stuff. And I had to do that because I know if I stand still and give him time to do his thing, that's where I can get caught. That's where things can go bad for me, especially with Aldo. And, you know, my attacks, it's going to be a lot easier for him to counter and things like that.

So I was like playing a character, if that makes sense. I was doing something that I wasn't really used to, but I had to keep Aldo occupied where, again, a lot of people aren't going to really understand that. that's something that uh for me was a big eye opener went in there with a certain approach with a game plan um obviously you're gonna have a lot of game plans but that was like a very big game plan that sort of felt at the time way out of my comfort zone um i felt comfortable because that's just the type of guy i'm gonna i'm gonna adjust and i'll make it happen.

But it was definitely a weird one for me to just try and keep that up for three rounds against someone like Aldo, which is pretty impressive. But I don't know if that's coming out how I want. I don't know if you're understanding exactly what I'm regurgitating right now. But it was definitely a big one for me, I thought. Fair enough. Is it at all frustrating that there's a certain kind of brilliance to what you're doing that, yes, maybe perhaps insiders pick up on?

I'm sure other fighters and coaches really admire it. But perhaps some of the larger casualness of the fan base can't. Is it at all frustrating that there's a bit of a gap there sometimes? It was frustrating. It was frustrating for me. It used to be frustrating. It was something that I paid way too much attention to. But right now, yeah, I've changed that.

You know what I mean? I don't look into the negatives anymore, which I'll be honest, I was way too – I looked into that way too much. You know, I was paying way too much attention to the negatives and I was letting it make me do wrong decisions and things like that. You know what I mean? I've let it – there's too much weight behind these negative comments when, you know, I shouldn't even be paying attention to these.

You know, you hear this time and time again. Everyone knows, you know, negative, all right, you know, only worry about – you know, all that type of stuff, easier said than done. Even at the top of something that I was still always struggling with. But right now, you know, I've really, really nailed that. So right now, I don't care. People can think what they want. You know, I know that there's still a lot of love out there,

and I'm just going to pay attention to that. You know what I mean? But again, obviously, after that last one, it was definitely different. But after this one, it's going to be different again. I can guarantee you that. Fair enough. All right, let's talk about this.

What does – you've beaten Max Holloway, you've beaten Ortega, you've beaten Aldo, Mendes, list goes on from there. What does a win over the Korean zombie do for your resume? This is a bit of a legacy fight, just purely because, you know, he's, I was talking to, who was I talking to the other day and someone was saying about his last title shot

was like nine years ago. Like his title shot with Aldo. And I was like, man, I just started like then, you know what I mean? I was like still an amateur then, you know what I mean? Like, so it's, it shows you how long he's been in the game and been at the top. So this is a guy that's been at the top of the featherweight division forever.

So you look at the legends in the featherweight division, he's one of them, you know what I mean? And I've taken out pretty much most of them. You know, the guys that are, you know, I won't be able to do all of them, but I mean, because some of them are, you know, probably way too far out of the picture, but he's still in the picture now.

He's still like, you know, he still took four, top four, you know what I mean? Which is pretty incredible for how long he's been in the game. You know, so it's a legacy fight for me. It's a feather in the cap that you maybe thought wasn't going to happen, but I mean, through injury and all that, it did happen. And again, I think he deserves it because he's been at the top of the game since his division's been started in UFC.

Yeah. What do you reckon is perhaps every fighter has positives. Every fighter has negatives. He has weaknesses, he has strengths. What are some of his strengths relative to previous opponents you've had that you're certainly conscious of heading into April 9th? You know, probably the, again, a lot of guys, you know, would call themselves a counter puncher. But I feel like he's sort of a type of guys uh you know would call themselves a counter puncher but uh i feel like he's sort of a type of guy that he'll really uh rely on you coming in or like and then you know

catching you coming in rather than you know say with a counter like you know making you miss then firing one back he will you know he will try and make obviously miss i'm not saying he's going to let you hit him but at the same time time, he will counter as you're coming in. So he will eat one and give one type thing, you know what I mean, which is always dangerous. But, I mean, the beauty of that is when am I coming in? You know, that's the question that he needs to answer. You know what I mean?

And I guess you would know exactly what I mean by that. So it's easier to counter someone that's going to be pretty one-dimensional and uh gonna be pretty obvious with their attacks but we all know i'm not obvious with my attacks i try not to be obvious with my attacks and um yeah but i mean again there's there's definitely some dangers there that i that's why i can't be careless but at the same time you know my style covers a lot of of uh you know these these areas where you're strong i think i nullify a lot that purely you know my style covers a lot of of uh you know these these areas where he's strong i think i nullify a lot that purely with just my style can you give us americans a sense at home for you in australia what it's like what where you're where you're at right now here's what

i mean we were on my podcast today we were talking about george cambosis because that devon haney fight is signed they're going to bring it to melbourne and you're a champion and even for guys who aren't champion like robert whitaker who was a champion and so on and so forth, they can then just tie it to Ivasa, who just had the biggest win of his career. What is it like at this moment in Australia for premier combat sports athletes? How popular really is it?

And how much has your life changed in this current day? I mean, it's definitely, it's always been big in Australia, but you've seen it. Every pay-per-view seems to be getting bigger and bigger and bigger. It's a, it's a, it's always been big in Australia, but you've seen it. Every pay-per-view seems to be getting bigger and bigger and bigger. It's massive. You know, I really think of this whole lockdown COVID situation, especially UFC being the only sport going. I think that was a massive, well, I guess it was massive globally, right? globally right but i mean in australia um it really did uh go levels above then especially me being able to fight then you know being the only like aussie athlete and things like that that was huge a lot changed after that one but um it's it's massive you know what i mean it's

again we're not just numbers in the ufc now we're contenders and champions and you're seeing absolute studs coming out of australia and new New Zealand area. And these guys, you've got so many studs out of the UFC right now that are coming through that, you know, you go to watch little shows, local shows, and I'm absolutely blown away from when I was back in the shows. The technique and, you know, the talent that's there, you know what I mean? It's incredible. So we've obviously got a lot of kids with bright futures in the sport. Well, champ, I don't want to keep you too much longer.

I know that you have, do we actually, do you have big plans for sightseeing in Jacksonville? I don't know. Well, we're, we're allowed out and about, which is a pretty good, but not in the bubble, which helps, but I mean, I don't know. Yeah. Now I've got a couple of days early. While I'm getting over this jet lag, maybe go see, see some shit if we can, I guess, but I don't know what's there to see what you just told me. I don't know. Is it much? Yeah. Yeah. There's some, here's the thing. Florida gets a bit of a bad rap. There are some, definitely some

cool Florida cities. I just don't know if Jacksonville's on that list, but I guess we'll see. All right. Before you go real quick, the co-main event, Peter Yan, Aljamain Sterling. Give me a sense of, if you've got a tingle, about which way it's going to go and what will decide the winner of that fight. I mean, you have to go with Peter Yan. Just, again, like, obviously, you're looking at the last one. Obviously, it was unfortunate what happened.

But you can see where that fight was going and just watching Peter Yan. I know Peter Yan. I trained with him, and, going. And just watching Petey. I know Petey. I trained with him. And, you know, he's so durable. You know what I mean? You know he's got the cardio. You know he's got the heart.

You know he's even the fighter. He's got so many tools. You know, like how can you bet against guys like that? And that's, like myself included, I feel like we cover a lot of areas. And then you've got the skill on top of that as well. So, you know, I think that Sterling definitely had a decent round in him, that first round. He had a lot of movement and all that.

But, I mean, at the same time, Petey Arne will, you know, he'll be defensive heavy as he put that pressure on. Obviously, get reads, slow you down. And, you know, even if he has a good round in him, Aljamain, I just think Peteyan is just going to take over within the first two rounds.

You know what I mean? And that's it. And, you know, that's even if Aljamain can get going good at the start. And again, I've got respect for Aljamain, but I just think Peteyan,

he can fight. He certainly can. So can you. I can't wait to see your next bout against the Korean zombie Chan Sung Jung April 9th, April 10th for the folks in Australia from Jacksonville, Florida.

Champion, appreciate your time. I know you've got a busy schedule. Can't wait to see it. Thank you so much. Mate, I can't wait. I'm looking forward to your breakdown. This one's going to be good. So you're going to absolutely love it.

There's going to be some new ones there for you too. Can't wait. Yeah, thank you so much. I love keeping you busy, mate. Thank you so much're going to absolutely love it there's going to be some new ones there for you too can't wait yeah thank you so much thank you so much champ i appreciate it i really do