MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Boxing Hardcores: Will there ever be another Manny Pacquiao?

Episode Date: August 17, 2021

Brian Campbell and Rafe Bartholomew get the band back together ahead of Saturday's PBC on Fox pay-per-view pairing Filipino legend Manny Pacquiao against WBA welterweight champion Yordenis Ugas. The guys look at the fallout following unified champion Errol Spence Jr.'s withdrawal due to a torn retina and celebrate the 26-year career of the "PacMan" entering what could be the final bout of his career. Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit: store.sho.com   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat  To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Rise to rewards with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card. Terms and conditions apply. How's it, brah? The hardcore's back at it, back in your living room here. It's been a long time since we rock and rolled. Morning Combat, Brian Campbell, of course, one half of your weekly duo alongside Luke Thomas. But that man right there, one of the most respected veteran, hardcore boxing journalists and podcasters in the history of the world today, Rafe Bartholomew.

Rafe, it's been so long. I don't know why we broke up. I don't know how we fell apart. I don't know why we don't talk anymore. All I know is I'm glad to have a big time boxing fight. I'm glad to have you back as well. All I know, Brian, is that you had to have a talk with your beautiful sons and tell them that sometimes people just drift apart. Sometimes it happens and you fall in and out of love. And I'm ready to be back in love.

I'm ready to reconnect some tips here and uh you know we're here to talk about the rigolution right yeah yeah the revolution will no longer be televised ever ever again unfortunately but we are here to preview all things pbc on fox pay-per-view this saturday when manny pacquiao invades las vegas not, against Errol Spence Jr. Although, we can argue, and we will, maybe a sneaky good replacement in WBA welterweight champion Jordanus Ugas. We wanted to give you the hardcore look at it. Oh, Rafe, I was wondering why we haven't done one of these in a long time. And then I'm like, you know what?

With the exception of the YouTubers, with the exception of Canelo in fights where he's just so good, we don't expect them to be competitive. This one, and this isn't even it anymore because Spence pulled out, but Pacquiao Spence was kind of supposed to be the boxing's first Super Bowl of this wacky year. Am I wrong? I hate to say it, but I think you're right. Now, I don't know if it was meant to be, right?

I mean, we were supposed to have AJ Fury. AJ was supposed to have wilder fury three we were supposed to have a lot of other fights in between but this was going to be the first true not even mainstream not hardcore banger and uh it's not happening either yeah well shout out to floyd and the paul family for keeping us uh you know that that T keeping us. What's the word I'm looking? I shouldn't think any of these words. Actually, I should pull pull out of these words, if you will. Zipper sound effect. There you go. But, yeah, you know, it's been such a weird year. And of course, as you mentioned, the fury while they're falling apart, everybody's got covid every other week. Sometimes there's fake covid pullouts. I think there's a lot of crap going on.

It still matters though. When 42 year old Manny Pacquiao was back in a major pay-per-view, um, Errol Spence torn retina not happening before we then move on to all things Ugas and, and, you know, have a reason to get you and I back together and look ahead to a big fight. What's your biggest lament from Pacquiao Spence not happening what was that thing you were most looking forward to see when those two were supposed to touch gloves that that once again we can't have nice things in boxing bad luck hit us pretty hard here uh for me Brian the biggest lament has to be this continuation of bad breaks for Errol I don't know if you call it bad breaks, but whatever Errol Spence's career, not having the trajectory that we all boxing fans wanted to see it go forth

on. I mean, from the, you know, the car accident right after his great win over Sean Porter, then COVID derailing things, coming back, looking amazing against Danny Garcia, thinking, oh my God, maybe he actually just stayed on track through all this time and through all those injuries. And then now this, and a torn retina, as I'm sure you've discussed and people know, is not a minor injury for a boxer. It is still career threatening. It's not quite as bad as it used to be, but it's still a scary thing that will be hard

to come back from. And the years are now ticking away on what I think we hoped for. I mean, what since what? Since 2014. I know you have gone deep on this tape and on this story, Brian. Since 2014, when he sparred Floyd and gave him some trouble. 2012. 2012.

All right. See, I told you, you went deep. And since then, it just hasn't, it was supposed to be, he was supposed to be the guy. And it's looking harder to see that path come into reality. Hashtag man down. Unfortunately, it's the wrong man who's down. And straps isn't, even seatbelts isn't,

are going to have to take a back seat. Oh, that's just the wrong word at the wrong time. I mean, it was the front seat. It not that's not it's not funny at all um but look let's give spence credit he had been on his way to building a and is still on his way a really incredible resume for this modern era of trying to fight the best and pacquiao was just going to be on top of that but i do agree with you that you know at age what is what is spence do you know offhand how old this man is early 30s he's older than canelo ah yikes uh he is you know among the three or four pound for pound best in the world yes we don't know if he's the best welterweight of this era until we see him fight

crawford but he had been doing more meaning fighting kel brook fighting danny garcia sean porter mikey garcia uh team spencer it don't make sense, than anyone else to try to claim that. He's going to have to take a step aside. We'll see what happens to his future health. I hope, I hope, man, he can bounce back like he did from that death-defying accident, which was no joke at all. Now, the good news, I say it's good news. It doesn't have the same star power.

It doesn't have the same sex and magic. But look, your Dennis Ugas, who was already going to be on this main pay-per-view card against uh fabian my donna uh yeah uh el chino's brother which would have been probably a slop fest i mean this is a great from the standpoint of like get your hardcore card out i mean you're dennis ugas is really damn good he's the wba welterweight champion for him to plug in last minute and And many accept it without any issue. Be honest. This is a pretty damn good fight on paper.

We have no idea what this is going to look like. No, I will be honest. And for 12 days notice for every, all of those factors going in, of course, this is a great replacement. This is a top five, almost top, certainly top 10 welterweight who could give who we've seen give sean porter hell i think we both scored that fight for your dennis ugas and a lot i many guys many guys did the same and brian blew that knockdown at the end who didn't call that round 12 against porter when they should have which one of your boys was that? I don't know. I'm hoping it wasn't Jack Reese.

Some Thailand guy? I don't know, man. The referee. That man referee. Anyway, Brian. Jack Reese. It was Jack Reese. It was.

Don't put that evil on me, all right? I'm against all authority. Anyway, Brian. No. So in terms of quality of opponent, on short notice, this level of replacement and it's still look, do I have to break out my my 10 year old Pacquiao hand sanitizer, my my Pacquiao produce box of broccoli? I don't have the broccoli anymore, but I still got the box. I don't believe you're drinking hydrogen infused next level Pacquiao water like I am, bro. OK, here's here's hangovers.

Let me just say who sent that to you if i could get some free garbage then i'd drink it too oh stop how dare you anyway brian uh it's a it is for it is a extremely high level replacement but errol spence was the beluga caviar that none of us will ever taste in our lives, the creme de la creme. And now we're getting like a great Peter Luger steak as a replacement. So, hey, that's a great meal, right? I haven't eaten that either. I don't know if you have, but it's still out of touch for most of us.

So you're saying this is Ruth Chris level of – No, I would give it better than Ruth Chris. I mean, look, I don't want to talk down on Ruth Chris here. I mean, hey, it could be – if you loveback. That's cool, too. I'm down. But another hot beef injection. Yeah, I'm saying this is a very, very excellent grade a FDA approved Cuban approved hot beef injection. But what we had before was one of the very best fighters in boxing, a star already who was about to get launched even onto a higher platform. And it's hard not to feel an enormous come down from that, regardless of how good Ugas is and how impressive it is that both these guys are taking this fight on 12 days notice.

All right. Have you felt this shift in the last, I guess, two years? Cause two years is the time since we've last seen Manny fight and let's give him full credit when he came back in 2019 at age 40, beat Adrian Broner on pay-per-view and then beat unbeaten Keith Thurman and won a welterweight world title. And it became a top 10 pound for pound again. And we're just like, Holy crap. So what I'm trying to ask you is this, this, this shift of, of adding to Manny's legacy. I think you'll agree with me when Manny lost to Floyd. I think we were like in 2015, that's the peak of his legacy and his legacy is incredible. Eight division world champion, the number one B guy of this era, the one of the greatest of all time. When you consider the rising in weights and the series with so many great fighters Marquez and Morales and Tim Bradley I mean just just what a what a

career I didn't think we were going to add to that so you add to that the third win against Bradley and then you know you just beat Keith Thurman I feel like entering what should have been this fight the dispense fight you had more people saying for the first time like are we do we even have a rightful grasp on what Pacquiao's true legacy is I'm seeing Max Kellerman in the last year for the first time really go hey guys hold on Pacquiao might actually be the goat and no one's talking about it I personally shoulder and salt water fix notwithstanding, do not believe Pacquiao can eclipse what Floyd did because they did finally fight head-to-head,

and Floyd beat him, and I thought solidly. But when you're adding the potential of these late victories and even adding a prime champion, Ugas, if Pacquiao beats him on Saturday, dude, that's a lot for a freaking 42-year-old on a two-year break. Like, this is mind-boggling. Do we, considering we thought we secured and tied the knot on Pacquiao's legacy in freaking 2012 when he beat Margarito or 2011 or whatever.

Like, do we even know Pacquiao's true legacy when he's 26 years into this dude and he's still challenging himself? Like he took this challenge on like eight days notice. It's crazy brian he's arguably the last of uh the last of his breed the last of this kind and i hate to say this the long time fans of uh of our uh of our back and forth will know how hard this is to say the only guy who maybe has a claim to that going forward might be Canelo and how long he's been fighting the level of the challenges, the number of fights.

But if you look at how many fighters nowadays have upwards of 70 bouts on their box rec on their, on their resume. And how, and in, in addition to that, the fighter, the reason that folks like Max Kellerman, the history buffs will make the argument that maybe Manny is in a goat. Now, they can't actually be saying he's up there with Sugar Ray Robinson. Can they? I thought that was first of all, first of all, put some respect on Harry Greb's name. Well, I was also like, look, I'm not I'm not hardcore enough to have the the basement tapes of Harry Greb that some of our boxing brethren have,

the ones that they somehow acquired and talk about without ever showing them. We've seen the windmill work. So I don't want to go to that level. But what I'm saying is, yeah, right, the real history books, the people who will talk about the Harry Grebs, the Henry Armstrongs, the Sugar Ray Robinsons, you know, the Benny Leonards, who can actually cite that information with some level of knowledge. They point to Pacquiao as having this great resume

because it's not, he has always been fighting super high levels of competition and beat guys like Barrera and Morales and Marquez in their primes. And that adds this, that was before the stage in Manny's career that most fans today are even familiar with. Before most young boxing fans might even have been alive or would have been old enough

to read or turn on the TV, hopefully not old enough to stay up late at night and watch the Fuzzy Playboy channel with Uncle BC. I know how you get down. I know what you're doing at the hot dog truck. Exactly, sir.

In any case, it's that longevity and that even and exactly this late career blooming or whatever you want to call it that he's done the Renaissance. It really is an incredible cherry on top. Are they his best wins beating Keith Thurman? No, but it is it's it's it's just mind boggling. And it goes back to something you we got to we can say fans, you and me, whoever has watched this stage in Manny's career can say can now say something that the old timers, the Bert Sugars and the Jerry Eisenbergs, who is still alive, I didn't mean to lump him in with Bert, but that the old legends of boxing media will say is that the truly great fighters do things that normal men don't do, that normal athletes don't do. They achieve things that no one should be able to do.

And you think, oh, yeah, maybe you're just saying that. But no, no, you see Manny come back and he has done it one should be able to do and you think oh yeah maybe you're just saying that but no no you see Manny come back and he's he has done it he may continue to do it I mean I don't begrudge Floyd for you know fighting tension and Connor and then even Logan Paul and that fight turned out to be a debacle and Floyd is still better one-on-one you know who's a better but I'm saying like I don't begrudge, you know, make that money, player, if you can. The fact that Manny is still, like, I feel like that's the new number one storyline heading into this fight. Okay, replacement opponent, so we don't get to sort of find out what we wanted to. But let's just celebrate Manny Pacquiao this week because he's 42 and he's the betting favorite going in against a guy that nobody else really wants to fight.

A guy who, okay, like, I don't want to overrate ugas i did think he beat porter but he went in there against figueroa's ass and wiped the floor with him you know i mean they've they car all right let's let's let's just let's just use the strength of his performance yeah even though he didn't get the decision against sean porter we don't need to like uh you Dallas Jr. They found Mike Dallas Jr. He was under the ring after Matisse put them there in Atlanta. I was going to say like 10 years after Matisse iced him in one round. What it was like, like Ugas takes 10 or something to get them out of there.

Like this is that those, those are not going to help make this case to me. You could go all the way back to Ugas. I think he's even stopped, but he definitely beat the new Ray Robinson, spoiler from Philadelphia, who has given many, many a good solid 147, many guys a hard time at welterweight. And also, I think we can trust our eye test with how good Ugas is as well, because you see the skill, you see the boxing talent, you see the timing, the counters, how hard he is to hit,

and the way he carries himself and handles himself in the ring. He is not an easy opponent for anyone. All right, look, you and I have always been very open and honest. I don't think you're down the road as much as Luke Thomas is on PEDs, but I think even if you don't say you're down the road as much as Luke Thomas is on PEDs. But I think you even if you don't say you, you you believe what I believe that more people are using than we want to admit. Correct. Brian, I'm not trying to spend any of your money there in the mortal mortal, the morning combat studio. And so I'm not going to make any strong claims of PED usage

because I'm not trying to get anyone sued over here. But yeah, we understand that this is a part of the sport, that it is very hard to catch every instance and easier to get, like you cycle on and off the drugs depending on when you need to perform and they figured that out. As Paulie Malinod you once said it's 2013 you know uh boxers use a lot of peds even within that frame of this era seriously what

man is doing and we don't know we don't have manny's blood tests or receipts even if you told me you knew things i would still say holy crap what he's doing in his 40s is remarkable. So with that said, and with the only recent footage being, again, two years ago against Thurman and Broner, which were solid start-to-finish performances for 12 rounds for Manny Pacquiao, in which, okay, he's not fighting three full minutes like he would against Ricky Hatton and Miguel Cotto. He's an older version, but he's not somebody who's going to gas out. He's not somebody whose chin's gone.

How can you responsibly gauge two years later what the real stock of Manny Pacquiao is entering this fight against Ugas from a physical standpoint? Well, there's no way to truly have a gauge on it. We've seen in this later part of his career, Manny has had nights when he, and periods when he looked flat, right? After the Mayweather fight, when he fought Jesse Vargas, when he fought Jeff Horn, that didn't look like quite the same level of explosiveness. And then, you know, he took a nice dip in the waters of Sarangani Bay, healed the shoulder up,

got his body right, did whatever he had to do, came back and all of a sudden looked more like the young Manny against Matisse and has carried that on in against Broner and against and against, of course, Keith Thurman in the most impressive performance two years ago. But still, that's two years ago for someone who was already 40 years old at that time. He's turning 43 in December. It's reasonable to suspect a little bit of drop off. We're both in that age range. And I'm afraid of what I'm going to look like and feel like in two, two years from now, I guarantee it's not going to be as good as today. And I already feel washed. So yes, that's a real thing. And also more, if we want to go to some actual evidence or whatever we want to

make of it, those early camp videos, when Manny first came over for, for, to train with Freddie Roach at the wild card, maybe a month ago, a month and a half ago. That's the slowest we ever saw him look. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's hard, man. That's at the beginning of camp. He could work his way into shape. He probably does.

Well, he is drinking a lot of Next Level, which this gas-infused water is supposed to really make your skin look clear. Manny told me himself, makes your skin clear up and a lot cures dementia, slows down dementia at least. Oh, wait, you turn 40 already? No, no, no. I have not. I'm I'm this is, this is 30. This is what 39 looks like, baby. Oh, okay. Okay. I was going to say, cause you're, you're, you're not even coloring that you're, you're all natural. Yeah. I look, I don't need any of that.

Clyde Frazier, Karl Malone, Justin Man, like I'm good. Did you happen to see my, my, look, I don't need any of that Clyde Frazier, Karl Malone, Justin Man. Like, I'm good. Did you happen to see my I've gone too far moment in Las Vegas when I did the 68 comeback special, Mauro Ranallo, like dark, dark black backs. Look, unless you're out here rocking like the 90s SNL opera man center part cut like Mauro, I think you are a step ahead of the game. Okay, but do the drapes match the carpet at least?

Uh, well, I look, you're getting way too personal here. I'm sure your, your viewers don't want to know this Brian, but since you asked, I have unusual body hair. It's different colored in every part of my body. Like my beard is red as, and you all, you, you mistakenly labeled me a ginger for years Like my beard is red and you mistakenly labeled me a ginger for years because my beard is red. But that's the only red part. I can show you if you

want to know. No, no, no. That would be a no-no. I have a team that analyzes the tip. Yes, please, please. Moving back to this, even with Manny's late greatness, like we all thought he was washed against Jeff Horn.

He took a beating against a bigger guy, but I think we all accepted after the fact. He also won the fight. Oh, stop that. Okay, I scored the draw. I'm just not, okay. The only truther I am in that fight is that, is that Jeff Horn did better than Teddy Atlas

would tell the world that he did. Okay. But here's what I'm saying. After the fact, Freddie explains that as, look, he was a Senator during that stretch. He didn't train that hard. He thought it was going to be an easier fight. That's some of Freddie's words. Some of my words mixed together. I could buy that when you're old, you do have to make sure you put in the perfect camp, right?

You can't under train. You can't over train. You're going to F up. There was jet lag. There was all that. Okay. But even with all of that and him coming back against Matisse, which is a fool's gold win, but whatever. Really the Thurman fight should have been the bridge too far. That should have been the okay. Old guy budding off more than he can chew. And he passed the baton to the next generation.

He was just too great. And I still, to this day, I know you and everyone else disagree on my Thurman seven, five scorecard great. And I still, to this day, I know you and everyone else disagree on my Thurman 7-5 scorecard, but I will tell you to this day, that's actually arguably Keith Thurman's best performance. I know he beat Danny and he beat Porter.

Porter performance more impressive. But I thought my point is to tell you he didn't fight that fight because Keith Thurman's a sissy. He didn't win that fight. He won that fight because Manny brought it. Now I'm like, okay, was this fight, whether it would have been Spence or it will be Ugas, is this the bridge too far fight?

Slow footage, two years away, 42. I mean, one of these days he's got to look freaking old, right? I just don't – I just – I can't believe it's this time, man. And neither can the betting oddsman. Well, look, if he were fighting Errol Spence, I think we would be having a different conversation right now in terms of previewing this fight. I do believe that is biting off more than he can chew at this stage in his career

with Spence's length, with his size, with his activity, with his youth, with his power. It just, that is, to me, was too high a hill for him to climb at this age. Ugas is a different kind of fighter. And I think the matchup, I think, favors Manny in a way that the matchup with Spence definitely didn't. And it also, it's also something where he can, like, I think even though it's short notice, he's back to fighting an orthodox fighter, no longer having to deal with the southpaw.

He doesn't fight a lot of southpaws. Manny is southpaw. His style is very effective against orthodox fighters. This is just, this is lining up for him in a way that I'm more likely to believe that whatever state, as long as he can get to 80% of the Manny Pacquiao who fought Keith Thurman, I think he can win this fight. All right. And who gets his favor? He's a big welterweight.

He's more aggressive than the typical stereotypical elite Cuban who, with the exception of Yuri Oka Scampo, who does bring it. We know the history of elite Cubans in big fights. Eris Landilar versus Canelo. Rigondeaux versus anybody not named Doner and even most of the Doner fight. Is the whole point. And look, it's good timing with Showtime's main event last Saturday with Rigondeaux losing to John Real Casamero, Filipino. And I'm the only guy standing on this hill defending Rigo and my DMs are a slaughterhouse.

But with that in mind, I do think Ugas is busier than the traditional Cuban artiste who likes to paint these great pictures of dominance but doesn't do enough to stamp it home. But how much is that a factor in the narrative of who actually wins this? Even if Ugas has moments where he's out, let's say he's outclassing Manny. I can't even put my head around that. No one outboxes Manny, not named Floyd Mayweather. It's just the truth, right? So unless you're a Marquez counterpuncher who's going to stand in there, punch with him and take the damage,

or unless you're bigger than him like we saw Jeff Horn do, it's hard even if Manny's a step slower than we expect to imagine Ugas walking him down so will the narrative of elite Cuban fighters sometimes not throwing enough to convince the judges is that in play entering this fight given everything I just said oh I think it is very much in play as well. Yes. I agree with you that, uh, you know, that Ugas does not fight quite like, uh, Guillermo Rigondo. He doesn't, it may be, I look, I guess we could ask our friend, our friends at CompuBox, shout out to Dan Canobio and the whole crew over there. Uh, who's the more active fighter between Ugas and Lara,

but that is sort of the level of engagement I expect in, in your average Ugas fight. And he is content to stay on the outside and outbox someone if he can. I think Manny is going to test that. One thing, look, Manny because of his size and because of his style is going to dart in and out of, you know, of the pocket and look to land nice little combinations, then pop out, take some time, get his wind back, and then come in and land another flurry.

Those are flashy, those score. And when he lands, as we saw against Keith Thurman, they're still very powerful and can hurt someone real bad. The thing that Ugas, I think, will have going for him is he's pretty sharp. He may be able to counter Manny on the way in. He's got the length. He has the timing and the eye to pull off some of that.

But will it be enough? Will he be able to land shots that deter Manny from taking those risks, from basically doing what we all recognize as a Manny Pacquiao performance, where he is moving in and out, as well as dipping it both ways at the hips, throwing that little drop step left hand, following it up with sneaky, you know, sort of that one-two-one that comes back with a lot more power with the second right hand. All of those moves,

I think Manny is not going to be deterred to the point that he won't use all of that that's in his arsenal. And if he does, I think he'll land the flashier blows. He'll definitely have the crowd oohing and aahing for all of that because it will now be an almost entirely Pacquiao crowd. Like the Cuban crowd, unfortunately,

does not even show up in South Florida to support Cuban fighters. They ain't flying to Vegas for Ugas. No. So Ugas has that potential uphill battle. I don't think he has the style or will have the kind of success where he'll start walking Manny down.

The same way, let's give Ugas credit against Figueroa. He realized there wasn't a lot of power coming back against a blown up lightweight. So he walked him down and beat him up pretty badly is it more likely in terms of extreme scenarios in your mind though that Manny has his Manny like it's similar to the Mosley fight where Manny knocks Ugas down early and Ugas goes oh shit I didn't think I was getting into this and then you know goes into a shell and man he cruises to a decision like he did against vargas where he's like i'm quicker i can outbox this guy i'm not going to get in any trouble

or is it more likely and man he gets old overnight and we have a fight similar to what we had in the horn fight where we didn't think it was going to be a fight and it turned into an actual fight like that was a freaking fight man he had to do this if you do many things again i Like that was a fricking fight, man. He had to do this. If you had to do many things again, I mean, it was a fight. It wasn't Marcus four, but it was a fight in terms of extreme scenarios. What's more likely here. Uh, I mean, it, I, it really depends on if you think he's going to get old overnight. And I don't know who can guess that with any kind of accuracy. It's, it's definitely a possibility given his age, given what the last two years have been like in the world, the lack of opportunities to train, to get fights, to stay warm. I mean, he's sparring with your man, Ivan Redcock, who is not, I don't know what's that going to get him ready for a

fight with one of Roy Jones's chickens. I mean, I don't know. So he's manny that but that's that that's the question we're we're waiting to see what's manny is going to look like in this fight if he looks like manny i think he's going to win fairly comfortably not that ugas won't look good won't make him work at times won't land some good counters but it's not going to be enough he's not going to keep up with that pace and he's not going to come back and take the fight. He looked, um, for the most part, athletes are who they are. Fighters are who they are. And we've, and, and as even though we can say that your Dennis Ugas is not quite the, the stinker that the great Guillermo Rigondeaux is, uh, he still has that in him. He still does. He's not going to go seize the moment, I don't think.

And if he does, God bless, prove me wrong, because then we will have a great, a much better fight on our hands and potentially a great fight. All right, best case scenarios here for Ugas. Aside from that scenario we just talked about where he throws early and Manny is a legitimate step a legitimate step slow. Like a, like he has dropped off and you guys can kind of do things to him, right.

Combinations and whatever. I think the best case scenario for you guys is that he is smarter and he's a very, very strong defensive fighter and he keeps a high guard. Let's say he's smart. He's smarter and more elusive than we expect. And he's able to frustrate Manny while landing clean counter shots and can make this a chess match that's kind of is that his best case scenario

here short of finding an old Manny to try to out out slick and out chess Manny I still again have questions that the judges will accept that and I have questions that Ugas will throw enough punches to give him a reason to accept it. But I could see that. I could see us getting to the midway point in the fight, and it's 3-3. And Ugas has rounds where Manny with the jab and the explosions are taking over, but then Ugas has those flip side rounds where he has slowed that pace down, and he's making Manny think. Let's give him his credit. He can do that. Absolutely. I think that's one of the likely scenarios for how this fight plays out. Unfortunately for Ugas, I just don't think that adds up to a win on the scorecards in

this case because of who he's fighting, because, you know, he's fighting a legend in Las Vegas where Manny has fought, you know, I mean, for the last for most of the last 20 years of his career, minus a random night in Malaysia and one down in Brisbane or wherever that wherever they fought down under for the Jeff Horn fight. In any case, Manny, this is Vegas is going to be Manny's town, both in terms of the crowd and the judges and everything else that that could possibly weigh in his favor there. And it's one of those things where when you're fighting uh if you want to win a close fight against the legend you don't want to edge it you want to do you want to do more you want to go the extra mile and i don't know if ugas can and will do that i wish you could get in ugas's ear and say look this is your chance this is your chance at super you know i mean not super stardom

but this is your chance dude you're dennis you retire are firemen yes you know you go for it bro be willing to get knocked out to have a chance to win i wish i could say that to every fighter obviously easier said than done i'm a keyboard warrior in a basement but when you sign up for it and you're on a pay-per-view you gotta be coming you gotta be coming to win bro and and you know i don don't think he's Lara or Rigendale in terms of skills where he can paint a masterpiece. So I think you and I are both headed to the same prediction as we sort of round this out. Pacquiao by decision. And we'll be praising it. Damn right we'll be praising it.

At 42 in a weird way. For all the crap of all the boxing belts and the WBA is a cesspool of that. This is kind of fixing the champion and recess super champion elevate Ugas. Manny's mad that they won't give him his belt back. So now they're just going to fight each other to find out who's the real WBA welterweight champion. That's almost real boxing right there, right? Well, great. Let's hey, let's all let's all stand up and give the WBA a round of applause because they are really killing the game these days with their fixed fights and racist judges and just really just knocking it out the park.

Look, the alpha belts are trash, and it's part of the sport these days. But in terms of how the fight will play out, yeah, I'm with you. I think that Manny will look like himself or a decent version of himself. I don't expect to see him come in completely flat. Morabun just doesn't have it on the night. At his age, it's possible, but we haven't seen it really before. Even when he has looked flat, he has, you know, beaten guys like Jesse Vargas,

and he has almost beaten,, beaten guys like Jesse Vargas and he has almost beaten, arguably beaten guys like Jeff Horn, who was bigger and roughed him up and had a home advantage and all that stuff. So he still will have. And that's the thing you, the one thing that snaps Manny out of a, out of a slow night is someone bringing a fight to him. Then all of a sudden you are going to like revive all those juices he's going to start pounding the old clito reyes gloves together and he's going to go after

it what my that's my glove the glove of clitoris and gloves of clitoris yeah yes yes be careful using manny and juicy in the same uh set those are those are punchers gloves uh and if if ugas does end up getting an advantage starting to take the fight to him, I think that brings out that extra level of determination and will, that wild Manny Pacquiao that we don't see as much anymore because he knows how to sort of control it and only brings it come out before and it can come out again. It just adds up to a decision in favor of Manny that I hope. Look, my hope is that if that's how it plays out, it's a win that we do feel good about, that we don't say, well, it's kind of like that third Marquez fight where he was. We want the business wanted him to win and it was close enough. So we won anyway. But if you put a gun to my head, I'm going to tell you that Marquez won that fight. And I'm going to tell you that maybe Ugas won this fight i don't want that i want

if manny wins by decision like i think he will i want it i hope that it will be a legit decision i hope one day uh eddie reynoso puts a gun to my head and i can tell him that uh i watched trout beat big red i watched laura beat big red i've seen Triple G beat Big Red twice, actually, bro. Wait, I scored Jacobs Big Red a draw. I mean, I did, but no one cares about my scores. Let's close with this. And by the way, Manny credits his longevity to the passion. Freddie credits longevity to his work ethic.

And I think both are true. There are other factors. Maybe he does have the most jacked calves of all time. About what's next or if there's a what's next freddie told me on this show he thinks manny's gonna run for president and win and he thinks manny manny's you know goodbye to boxing for his legacy would be to win a fight as sitting filipino president i brought up to Manny. Manny said, no, no, no. It's still fight by fight. Let me see how I look.

Let me see how I feel. I can't tell you what the future is. I think the biggest lament, although we're getting a decent substitute here, is that if we don't get Pacquiao-Spence now, we may never get it. How many times does Pacquiao fight again? And is it dependent upon winning or losing here?

Well, so if he were fighting Errol Spence and in that fight, I would have predicted that he lost, possibly ugly, hopefully not. But whatever, the fight not even happening. If that fight happened and he lost, I think that probably would have been the final fight in his career. There wouldn't be an obvious point to come back and accomplish what right before when he's planning to run for president next May. And I think Freddie is right that Manny does plan to run for president. We will know in October when candidates in the Philippines have to submit their certificates of candidacy. Boo boy, boo boy. Maybe boo boy will move up from his current position as vice mayor of a town in Albay province. Shout out Polangui.

A well-fed, a very well-fed mayor. Whatever Boo Boy is doing, everybody's got to eat in the Boo Boy family. I could be mayor. But Brian, I think that the good, so I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but I do think that fighting Ugas, if he does run, which he's already releasing YouTube ads that look like presidential campaign commercials. I mean, all the signs are lining up. Freddie is dead wrong that he is likely to win at this point, but things can change. That has happened before. So he wanted this big event, this thing that the country would watch and be, oh my God, now we remember he is this national hero who does these impossible things, puts the

Philippines on the map and brings pride to the nation in a way that no worldwide celebrity in the country has in our lifetimes, maybe ever. And the Ugas fight doesn't have that much, I can't say juice anymore, it doesn't have that much flavor. It might have a lot of juice too. But so I think that what it means is that it might mean that Manny looks to squeeze in another fight between now and the end of 2021 or in early 2022. It might mean, and I don't know, look,

who knows how possible this is politics, politics, whatever. It might mean that he needs to go big game hunting and calls out somebody like Terrence Crawford, because if Errol Spence probably won't be ready to fight off a torn retina in the next four months, that's not big enough. You got to go.

You got to he needs to the level of win that he is hoping for, at least in terms of political gain, is something that will blow people's minds. Right. Because right now he's running behind. I mean, he's running way behind. I think there was a survey about a month ago, he was the fifth out of five potential candidates that were named. So I'm not, I'm not a fifth out of five, but fifth, fifth, there were four people ahead of him. And so to, to get to that point, he, he really is,

that's one, that was one of the appeals of fighting Spence. And so it might mean that he was like, well, hey, hey, Al, might we go make this fight with Terrence Crawford? There will be money in it for all of us. I need it fast. And I know, look, this entire year. Terrence doesn't fight for Al, just so you know, as of right now. He will, he will. But there's, I know that in, but even if he's,

even if Terrence Crawford's plan is to remain with top rank for the rest of his career, right? Manny Pacquiao in a farewell fight is the kind of opportunity that could get top rank and PBC, the respective promotional organization managerial firms to make a deal. Whatever. I don't know what we're allowed to call PBC. But definitely not a promoter. No, exactly. So that opportunity is big enough, I think, to make people cross the street, to make the stars align fast in a way that hasn't happened all year, all this entire year. All we're seeing is big fights fall apart, big fights not come together. Canelo and Caleb Plant can't make a fight. All of a sudden, does he go by Caleb? Only in the Dwyer household. Yeah. Good, good, good. And all of those facts, I think that it does make it more likely if Manny wins that he looks for another, another fight, another big fight, uh, ideally look for, for as a fan or in terms of what's the biggest fight for the sport,

you, you immediately go to Crawford. You're right. It might not be Crawford because of some of the obstacles. I mean, Porter's big enough. I, you know, no one's talking about it, but imagine if Teofimo moved up or Gervonta or somebody small was like, I want to catch this old guy. Let's say Manny wins, but but looks a little old. I don't know, man. I'm just starting to believe, even though we've had really bad luck lately, I'm starting to believe in the power of the big fight again,

that people, that this next generation, guys like Ryan Garcia, Virgil Ortiz, they want the smoke. They're going to go after it. Am I allowed to talk about it? Are you serious, Brian? Ryan Garcia? No, I'm not saying. What's he doing right now?

He's still like hanging out on the beach, licking his wounds, right? There was some Ryan Garcia, Manny Pacquiao talk. There was some, okay? There was some. Shoot. I mean, that's easy. I'm sure Manny would want that easy money. After he knocked out Cousin Luke, there was some talk.

That man is a pretender. We've got to get out of here. Anybody who doesn't follow at Rafe Bogues, Rafe Bartholomew regularly. I love that theory with the Pacquiao, with the Filipino presidency. You've got the years put in living in the Philippines, covering that game. So, you know, you're ish, you know, this game indeed,

right there at Rafe Boogs. You're a fine editor for Texas monthly. You're going to get back into the boxing game or what? Yeah. Yeah. Somebody cut the check. All right. All right.

I'm going to close with this question. You have Somebody cut the check. All right. All right. Um, I'm going to close with this question. You have 30 seconds or less to answer it. Uh, you said Manny's the last of his dying breed. And that's why I think this week has felt extra special. It's like this one more bonus giant Manny Pacquiao biggest fight of the year. Kind of not really. Um, will there ever be another Manny Pacquiao in our lifetime? In our lifetime? No. I mean, in all likelihood, of course not. He is a one is beyond once in a lifetime. He is once in, I don't know, five lifetime type of type of athlete, type of boxer, type of performer, type of man, type of man. Yes. All right. There he is. Ray bugs. I'm your boy, BC morning combat, like, and subscribe every

Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. We're going to get this band back together. The, the hard cores. I love what we do here. I love what you do for me all right detroit's finest rave bartholomew thank you on bc enjoy the fight this saturday pbc on fox pay-per-view we out