MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Chael Sonnen on Jake Paul-Anderson Silva, Jon Jones' Return and More | Room Service Diaries

Episode Date: September 17, 2022

Luke Thomas and Brian Campbell sit down former Bellator & UFC world title contender Chael Sonnen. Chael Previews Jake Paul vs. Anderson Silva, Shares inside details of his UFC Career and much more! (1:00) - Jake Paul vs. Anderson Silva Press Conference (5:20) - Adapting to Life After Fighting (8:40) - BKFC (11:40) - Seeing Himself in the New Breed of Fighters (12:40) - Anderson Silva vs. Jake Paul Odds (16:20) - UFC Sending Fighters Off (18:10) - Nate Diaz vs. Jake Paul (21:30) - Hasim Rahman Jr. vs. Vitor Belfort (23:40) - Favorite Behind the Scenes Moment in UFC (27:55) - Matchmaking Conor McGregor (31:00) - Jon Jones (36:40) - WEC Championship Run (37:50) - Vegas Incident (38:60) - Oregon (39:20) - Eagle FC & Khabib Nurmagomedov (40:25) - Fighting Fedor Emelianenko (42:00) - Chael Sonnen vs. Anderson Silva 2 Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit:morning kombat.store   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This is Luke Thomas, you know us, from Morning Combat. We are here, though, in Los Angeles for this press conference. Well, well, well. Ready to go? Chael, before we get going, do you need anything? You could take down one of those. No, I'm good. It does look very... I'm worried I'm getting it on my shirt.

Yeah. See, these are on my shirt. Yeah. See, these are real male problems. Yeah. I don't even know how to introduce our next guest. UFC veteran,

Bellator veteran, media mogul, the gangster from Westland, Oregon. He's many names, many hats. He's never lost and never failed the drug test. There you go. It's my friend and yours.

It's Chael Sonnen. Hi, Chael. What's happening, guys? Good to be back with both of you. Yeah, so you're here today. We're all here today because in about an hour from now, of course, this will come up probably afterwards, but we are here for the Jake Paul Anderson Silva Boxing Match. Hey.

Hey, and you're going to be hosting today's presser. Yes, that's right. In the absence of the great Errol Hawane. But I'm excited about it, by the way. And I'm also very curious. I think, I mean, I go gut feeling, I think the world wants this fight. I think they're going to be excited. But today will let us know.

And there's already fans lined up outside. We're two hours early. There's fans lined up to get in this thing. I think they're on to something here. Well, I've got to cut you off to ask the question most people are thinking. You're going to be officiating this presser. This fight's going to be big come August 29th in Arizona.

But Anderson Silva, you definitely suck. I mean, we've heard variations of that through the years. Are you guys back? I have not seen him since. I have not seen him since. And I wish our relationship was better. I mean, I put those things behind me. I don't know that he has, and I have not seen him since. So are wish our relationship was better. I mean, I put those things behind me. I don't know that he has and I have not seen him since. Okay. So are you planning to talk to him at all today beyond the official capacity of

hosting? If I had a choice, I would like to say hello to him before we go out there. Here's what I don't want. I don't want him, you know, when I'm in this capacity, I don't want him to come out and think that I'm going to double cross him or make it anything about, you know, this is his moment. I'm just standing in the middle. But I would prefer that he knew that. What did you – how do you view Anderson Silva, especially like post-UFC? He has had a remarkable little run here, strangely. I did not know that Anderson loved the sport the way he does.

When we were competing, sometimes I had a hard time getting a match with him, and I had done anything. I loved it. I just wanted to be in there and compete with those guys. More of a wrestling mindset. And the fact that he is still here, and he's still training, and he's still doing his thing, I mean, he showed that he really loves the sport. And he's in another capacity.

He's also a trainer. You know, his boys are doing real well. Oh, his kids, you mean? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, he's got two boys that are striker. There's a striker search going around. They're entering a competition to try to get recognized.

Yeah. How do you feel about the whole YouTube boxing thing, which Jake is a little bit graduated from at this point? He's still the face of it. Here's the thing. There was this event recently. I forget the name of it. It was over the weekend.

In fact, one of Jake's early opponents. Social Gloves and Easton Gibbs. Yes, yes, yes. The guy that you called on Twitter. I didn't know who he was, and I referred to him as a pre-diabetic gas station attendant, so I don't think that's very... He didn't like that, you know, when he found out. I don't think that's very fair.

But nevertheless, he sort of moved a little bit beyond that. He's not fighting other guys on TikTok. He's fighting fucking Anderson Silva. And yet there's still... It's a weird space. How do you feel about it? I like that you said that because I think that he deserves that. For Jake to step in here with Anderson Silva,

I mean, this is showing a massive courage. He's told everybody, I want to be part of this community and I want to be recognized. And I don't know why it was so important to him. You think the guy's got his whole life figured out. He's got some money, he's got some fame, and he's a young man.

But no, he wants acceptance badly. He listens to the fans closely. And I do think we need to start talking about Jake differently. It's not just entertainment anymore. The gig stops at Anderson Silva. You're not playing in there. You don't play with Anderson Silva. Anderson also, like, against Chavez Jr.,

that fight was, like, he took it to him, and then against Tito. Jesus. That was an execution. He did exactly what you should do, and yet I still came away like, holy shit, he still got it. I mean, he put it on.

Yeah. And can I go back to that Chavez? Because many people do miss this about Anderson's career. His skills are so good. He's dynamic. He's versatile. But he has a gas tank. People forget about that.

You go tell me a fifth round. We'll use MMA. You go tell me a fifth round that Anderson Silva had that he lost against anybody. You know, he comes on strong. And guys like that get credit, these guys that can really push hard. Nobody talks about him in that capacity. I thought he showed that with Chavez. To go all of those rounds

one thing people miss he's not just very good. He's a tough son of a bitch. How strong is Anderson Silva? I probably would have put him in that category. But it's similar to strength because you're talking about leverage. He can do stuff in positions. I'm not talking about pure bench press

numbers but when you lock up with him. I don't think you would leave thinking he was strong, say in the capacity of a Dan Henderson or a Yushin Okami. Yushin's super strong? He's also not weak. Yeah, yeah. Unusually. Dan Henderson is too.

Dan Henderson is a deceptively strong man. Dan Henderson's all bad. You still see him in public with hot chicks on his arm. I mean, this guy is... Well, it's the same one, actually. He married the... He did well. He did well.

Yeah, but there was a few years there where he was popping up on broadcasts, and it was like... I mean, he was going on tour. He couldn't believe it. Chael, the theme of this show,

Room Service Diaries, is typically us complaining about our, you know, low T in life in our mid-40s. This is the first time we're kind of relatable. Yeah, we're peers, Chael.

How are you adapting to being, with due respect, a washed piece of shit now that you're away from the game? I will share with you, and I think you can relate. Thank you to whoever makes these, to be able to participate. It's hard to participate in this sport. I mean, Luke found a way, but he had to claw his way in. He was even resisted. Right now, he's a big thing, and they're nominating him for awards, but not at one point.

Not at one point. At one point, he was being resisted, now he's a big thing they're nominated for awards but not at one point not at one point he was being resisted and you've got to uh get through that um i mean john jones sounds the hell of that press conference you remember that right yeah yeah you remember that yeah yeah just bringing up l's here yeah i mean look where you want to we could talk about your l's it's among men here we you know you know i mean you you you say i blew you off last night you wanted to hang out and do drugs i fell asleep yeah i don't know what happened you're gonna have to get over it yeah i mean you are bad at doing drugs but i don't believe that actually wanted to hang out and do drugs, I fell asleep. Yeah, I don't believe that. You're going to have to get over that. I mean, you are bad at doing drugs, but I don't believe that, actually. And when you say do drugs, what are we talking about? Legal drugs.

We gummies. Okay. Joe, we are pathetic little nothings. We're not trying to do the hard stuff. I just wanted to laugh at videos on YouTube, you know, something like that. He always tries to get handsy, though, like a little too much brotherly love. We're not in Philadelphia here, though, bro, okay? I know friends like that. As the night goes on, all of a sudden they want're not in Philadelphia here, though, bro, okay? I know friends like that.

As the night goes on, all of a sudden they want to get in a wrestling match. You know, I know friends like that. Gareth A. Davies put both hands down my pants one time. The damn warlock. You know that guy. Gareth, did he throw a kick at you? Yes. It's his big move.

High kick. It's his big move. It's the kick. And he'll miss you by this much. He'll be drunk. Gareth doesn't understand the concept of personal space. Like, both with the chattiness and with the hand. Chill.

Nevertheless, though, like, after fighting, did you, you have carved out a really interesting career for yourself, certainly on YouTube and other places as well. What was your plan after fighting? Because you opened up the pizza place and you did some other stuff like that. Did you know you'd be in a position where you'd be hosting stuff like this? No, no, and you know, even when I was dreaming about what I'm going to do, I'm in high school. My father's putting pressure on me in college. You could never say something like this. This didn't exist, right?

I'm in digital space, and it wasn't a big thing. But also commentating wasn't a thing. Goldberg and Rogan had that lockdown. There were six events a year. So no, no, I never dreamed of it. And I do enjoy speaking about the sport. I am a true fan. I mean, I watch and I study these guys nonstop. I'm on the internet and reading stuff, watching you two.

So very nice. Very nice position. What is the key to it? Folks always ask, what's the key to a job like that? Well, partly you have to be like a famous fighter. But beyond that? To build your base. Yeah, no, that sure is true to stick around.

But I found consistency. And we've had a hard time in the sport, even the last seven weeks the sport of boxing and mma has been a little bit down finding topics particularly as of late uh i found to be hard and i know a lot of people that do what i do but they didn't go in and record there just wasn't a show to do and i get five a day every day no matter what i found that consistency is probably five a day five a day every day eight minutes a piece by the way. Yeah, about eight minutes apiece. Wow.

Those reps keep you fresh. You know it. Yeah, but that's a lot. That's actually a lot. Jesus. Why five? Five was just the number that we went with. We qualified on YouTube when we passed half a million to get a one-month-a-call phone.

One-time-a-month phone call with an actual human being. And they told us oh like a youtube rep or something they told us eight minutes was a good number they offer you that in prison too five a day yeah you can get one in prison you can get one a day one oh yeah not with you i'll tell you what you can't reach someone at youtube it's it's all ran by an algorithm so people are trying the space they'll know what i mean if you can get a human being on the phone it's helpful coming full circle though with the jake paul in your career i mean obviously we're in a different space now,

but if something like this had been available right as you got out of the UFC, because it's interesting now, right? Like, if you leave UFC, you have some choices. There is Bellator, there is some other places as well, one and whatnot. There's BKFC now, which took Chad Mendes, took some other folks, PFL has taken some folks. There's like, now there's this YouTube boxing sort of slide angle. But by the way, Nate Diaz just won over the weekend.

God only knows what he's about to do. How would you have navigated that space? I'd have probably moved right out and retired, even with the options, just because I had had enough of competing. I wasn't having the grit and the toughness, the true crowd. I just had enough of it. But I do like these guys. I love what Dave Feldman's doing over at Bare Knuckle Boxing

as far as providing an opportunity. Well, if you can talk. And also cross promoting with Bellator, too. That's right. For sure. But if you can put on a pro wrestling persona, I think for some of the fighters that we're finding out now that are having success at BKFC, they're not actually coming from stardom in boxing and MMA. They might be coming from a diner or a gas station, but they can talk.

And I think Feldman's been able to kind of embrace that. Yeah. But, Chael, you could always talk. Feldman's made it through some tough spots, by the way. I think as a promoter, he deserves a lot more credit than he gets. For example? Okay, well, they were even canceling shows at one time because it was a funding issue. He was having to call up and go, hey, look, we're trying to get reorganized.

And when you reach that spot, people don't ever come back. And he found a way. He's not missing a beat. And through everything that he went through, the ups and the downs, full houses, lack of houses, different distribution, he never skimped on production. His show is beautiful. It really is a beautiful thing. That cage pops, the lighting.

I mean, I think that's important. If you want to have a good promotion, people talk about you've got to have the best fight. You want people to buy your pig, you've got to put some lipstick on it at the end of the day. We debate often if that's like the last stop on the combat highway, BKFC. Some people are now mid-career kind of moving and making it. See, it used to be, but not necessarily. Some people are taking advantage of the money. You know, we watched Michael Venom Page come up empty

against somebody like Mike Perry. Would you have specifically gone this route if it was five, seven, eight years earlier? You can get carved up. Is it worth it? Sure. Is it worth it to have a Teddy Atlas scar across right here? Yeah.

Aside from the rules, I probably never really thought of the rules of combat, but I was an MMA guy. Yeah. I came from, I wanted to do MMA. I had dreams of being a boxer. I tried to make an Olympic team in 2000. But I'll share that with you. No, I want to do MMA.

That was just a stop along the way. You got to do the complete sport. That was a belief of my father, so I have it. We all know the same thing about fighting, which is whatever your dad told you. My dad said you've got to do MMA. My dad doesn't. He just tells me I'm a failure.

No, I'm teasing. He actually doesn't tell him anything at all. He doesn't talk to me at all. Do you have a bad relationship? No, I have a fine relationship. You're making a joke. The fact that I like what I like is, I cannot possibly explain how divergent it is

from every other person in my family. It's utterly... Like, they love him, but could they name the show? No. It's like they gave birth to a fucking goat. I get that. It's like, it doesn't... I'm like, what the fuck are we going to do with this thing?

Gio, how many times, given your colorful microphone ability, do you watch the game today, whether it's UFC, boxing, whatever, and go, I see myself in that? Every single time. Like, where's my royalty check? I should get 10 cents off of that interview. And maybe not that, but I do like the guys that embrace the entertainment side of it. Luke had brought up earlier, we talked about these YouTube boxers, but I think we're kind of in the entertainment era.

Like, I think Mike Tyson or Roy Jones coming back or Evander coming back, even if it was a flop. And it's hard to be sustainable. I mean, that's a really hard thing to do. And I think that Jake changing over and going, no, no, I'm serious about that. Bring me the best guys. I think that's how he's going to live on. I think he turned something that had 18 months into more like five years.

Yeah, but the risk here, this one is different, dude. Like the risk against another guy, and listen, anytime there's a threat of a knockout, it's always serious. I don't mean to suggest that there's never been anything on the line. But, dude, from Nate Robinson to Ben Askren to two bouts with Woodley. Well said. Okay, but to Anderson? Dude, this is an escalation.

I find it surprising, to be honest. And the oddsmakers, I don't know what it is at the moment of this recording, but when the odds first came out, they had Anderson as the favorite. I think rightly so. How would you assess this challenge for Jake? I'm not buying into the whole age thing. And I know that's real. I know that we're going to deal with that.

I feel as though that is getting ready to take away from a glorious moment from Jake. I feel as though people are padding that in advance. 46 is a very real number. However, when you have Anderson Silva, who just left the ring with Chavez Jr you know they went talking about Chavez isn't in shape and he said man this is a second generation boxer they went the distance just people go the distance in boxing it's a lifetime of work the rules would stop you had they not gone to Mexico he wouldn't have even done that you know the amateurs they'll stop you at three and then you come to six you got to work your way

up Anderson steps right into the deep end with the distance. Come on, man. He passed the test, in my opinion. Still, okay, if Jake asked you for a piece of advice on fighting Anderson Silver, now you fought him in MMA. This is boxing. Utterly different. But if you had a lesson for him that you learned from fighting Anderson, what would it be? Engage.

Do not stand back. Do not watch those movements. My coach, Clayton, would call Anderson the Medusa. He would do things and turn you to stone. Even if it was for a back. Do not watch those movements. My coach Clayton would call Anderson the Medusa. He would do things and turn you to stone. Even if it was for a second, then he could step in and hit you. You got to engage. You got to engage when he does that. Or if he does, you got to back out. Do not stand there and watch him put you to sleep. I got to tell you though, with a guy like Jake, I appreciate what he's done, but he doesn't have a lot of experience. Sure. Right? That's just the reality. He doesn't have a ton of experience. Well,

to Chael's point, he's got to use the youth size and the kid can pop. Have you seen Jake in person? No, I haven't seen him. He's a relatively big kid. Generally, when you're talking about those rules of this is an older guy and you've got to have youth, you really are talking about volume and you're talking about staying on a guy.

Anderson Silva doesn't wilt. People forget that. People put pressure on Anderson Silva. Go back to MMA. Show me one fifth round he was ever in that he lost, and that includes against Nick Diaz, who was known for winning fifth rounds. I mean, I feel that Anderson doesn't get credit for his cardio. I mean, his fight against Adesanya, which is the most elite you can get in that sport of MMA, was like just three years ago. Yeah, Izzy didn't win that game, to your point about a gauge.

He wasn't handled by Adesanya. In fact, he had some moments that ultimately disciplined Adesanya from taking too many chances. He's not that far removed from that guy. He doesn't have a string of knockouts losses between now and then. He had broken legs, body kind of betrayed him. If the debate we're making of him at 47 is that he can no longer compete against the elite in either sport, I'll say that's true.

This is a different category, though though this silo of celebrity carnival crossover boxing so um i think we're gonna get a real fight here i think i think the the thing i want to find out most about jake is not could he beat a 10 and 0 rising real cruiserweight boxer i want to see what happens when he's in a real fight i agree with you and there is something very significant i feel as though maybe we're getting ahead of something with this age. Trent, tell the audience, don't do that to us because it's going to be a roadblock. But when we do see a guy come back, he's 46, he's 47 years old, the guy that's 50, however you want to do it, took a break.

He took 10, he took 15 years off. That's just not what happened with Anderson Silva. He competed the entire time. He stayed in the gym the entire time. His body never got away from him. He had to get back in shape. It is a significantly different 47 than most guys we're used to seeing compete at that age.

Is that a fair point by me? I think it's a very fair point. He did have a decline, certainly in his last bit of the UFC run. There's no denying that there was a drop-off in performance. It became harder, as it is for guys his age, to keep that up over five, four minutes. In pockets, think the Bisping fight. In pockets, he could still be that same guy. But rightfully so. To do that against the elite for that many minutes, you can't.

Joe, let me ask you something. I know you have a good relationship with UFC, so I'm not in any way asking you to bash them, nor am I even trying to bash them. I'm just trying to figure out how you solve a problem. Sure. Which is that when Anderson left the UFC, it was in the apex.

Granted, it was still the hangover of the pandemic, which isn't nearly as much of a problem. But Nate Diaz just won this past weekend. And if that's his last UFC fight, he got a great send-off by virtue of luck and his own engineering. But absent that, it would have been not a great one. And I don't think the UFC was trying to dunk on Anderson when they gave him, I think his last fight was against...

Uriah Hall, I think. Uriah Hall is the right one. He had a cann cannon there before that. But it ended up being like a really quiet exit. I understand the UFC is the highest level. And so there are stages below that. There are other things you can do. It's not officially a send-off from the sport.

Nevertheless, though, is there a better way for the UFC to give the goodbyes, especially people like Anderson, the Mount Rushmore types, right? How do you do that for a guy like that in that scenario, especially when they're losing all the time? Sure. But it was very unique. I mean, Dana had announced for Anderson, this is going to be his last fight. And then he put him in a main event. And that's also unique with Nate. A main event of a pay-per-view just generally isn't how you send the guy off, right? Kind of take his shine away. I can remember Pedro, his who had a great career. I can remember Rico Rodriguez who had great careers.

You know, these guys were very close to champions. One of them was, their last fight was on an undercard. I mean, there is a history in the UFC where you pull a guy down before you send him off. The pay-per-view and the promotion of moving him up is for the guys that we still have. So I think that it was very consistent. And I like how you said that, that Nate got a great sendoff, largely because of his own engineering and luck, I believe was your quote. And there's a lot of truth to that.

Imagine him. He's a 12-to-1 underdog. He wakes up the next day, he's a 2-to-1 favorite. Like, just stop the story right there without even knowing the details. That is massive change emotionally. If Nate ends up fighting Jake Paul, right, which is a big if, sells a million buys?

I think that it could. With the right promotion. That's right. With some fighting between them during the build-up and stuff like that. A few things have to go right, but is that possible? That's right.

Well, and the only reason I didn't jump on that and say yes is because buys are so much different now. I mean, it's a very different business. Like our current record in MMA this year, it was 400,000 on something that would have done more like 1.2. I will tell you this. There's a rumor. So if we're going to spread it. Let's spread it. Yeah, Jake versus Nate, but on the same card, Logan versus Nick. And that does drop. Wow. The two brothers is a different story.

But Nick's still under contract, right? With the UFC, yes he is. Could you do that? You'd need somebody to help you out. Dana has stated I don't know if I'm going to use him again. Oh, that's right. He was a little bit non-committal about that.

Nick didn't look great, did he? Jake Shields told me that it was a series of really unfortunate circumstances and that he was more or less physically unprepared for the moment uh which i'm willing to believe i'm willing to believe that that's not the best version of even what is still left of nick didn't look great well he didn't want to be in there and he said it took a lot of punch i felt as though he was doing better than maybe he thought you know he waved it off and stopped which is nowhere within his uh dna we've ever seen. I think he was a lot more

competitive in that fight than maybe he knew at the moment. He took a lot of punches from Robbie, but he gave a lot back. He did. He still got some fire in his belly when he needs it. He seemed so old. He wasn't a movie target. He seemed old. Yeah, he was standing there. He was a little bit still. You and I, we're roughly the same age. I remember watching Nick Diaz coming up. He's always been associated with youth to me, like the next level, the new hot shit. And then to see a guy who's visibly got old, it changes. It really is jarring to see that.

I see that every morning in the mirror. If you're advising Nate on what to do next, what do you tell him? Because the world is his oyster. That's right. I mean, holy shit, right? Sure. Hey, I'll tell you what. The world of promotion is a very tough business.

It's an extremely hard thing. We saw Khabib come in, and maybe some even rumors that Khabib's going to slow down a little bit. It's just a really tough space to get into. I would encourage him to be careful. Don't go around and sign a whole bunch of anything. Don't book five venues at once. Yeah.

Real men. They already made some hats. Don't line up 30 you know, 30 guys under multi-fight contracts. There's promotion and there's event organizing. And I think right now an event organizing

one time, an event organizing is the right move. I think, I want to give you that advice two years ago. I mean, even the greatest

promoter ever, Dana White, had a Zufa boxing mishap in the last few years and it's not easy. A lot of people have lost a lot of money in this.

Where is Triller? Oh, in trouble. Being sued. Yeah. But it's not over. They may owe you money too. money in this. Where is Triller? Oh, in trouble. Being sued. Yeah. But it's not over. They may owe you money, too. They might. No, not Triller.

I never worked with them. No. I know they got a few checks out there. Dude, so they're being sued left and right. But they're not done. Not that I'm aware of. As long as Justin Bieber got paid for that car. They've been sued by a couple of artists, Swiss Beats and some other ones.

They've been sued by Sony. They've been sued by... Boy of artists, Swiss Beats and some other ones. They've been sued by Sony. They've been sued by... Boy Jones, Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson. They've been sued by a bunch of sort of smaller creators who were promising. Remember, they almost didn't pay Kovalev. They did pay him. They did pay him, but it was a delayed thing.

Yeah, I don't know. They're fucking about. They don't have a date coming up. They're not working on it next time. I asked that because Vitor was under contract with them, but all of a sudden he's going to fight Rahman. So I was just guessing. Hasim Rahman Jr.

Hasim Rahman Jr., which was interesting. I thought for sure when he missed the weight and the whole thing got blown up, that's the last we're going to hear of him. He leveraged it against Vitor. What do you make about that one? He's a big kid, by the way. I'll tell you what, he used that. He never flinched.

That thing was completely his fault from my judgment standpoint. He didn't tell anybody sorry. He flipped the script. He did more media after that thing. He did, didn't he? Yes, I mean, he did turn that into something. That's a Chael level of handling. I've got to say, he took the old Chael playbook there for a little bit of a run.

But against Vitor, this version of Vitor, who God only knows what he's doing in his personal time. That's a tough night out. You think so? I think it's a tough night out I mean here's the thing about Rockman he is what do you want to say

an underachiever yes for sure but he's a big dude he does have some legit experience he does have big power he's a 6 foot 3 southpaw

whose dad was the heavyweight champion of boxing he's got to have something he's got to have a little something like Vitor

Vitor reminds me there's these guys you know this right it's a little bit more common with like wrestling based sports so mma and wrestling but these guys who in their first the beginning of the match the beginning of the fight they come out like a bat out of hell hamzat is that way right they're just shot out of a fucking cannon i feel like vitor is that way but like when vitor was in the ufc grant it was a different circumstance at the end of the run there i used to time it on my watch. He had three minutes. He had three minutes of fury, kind of like BC in the bed.

He had three minutes of fury. How would you know? I mean, I'm just saying. I'm just guessing. And then it was over. And then it was over, right? I feel like a guy like Rockman, if he's not terribly stupid, should be able to drag that out a couple rounds and then take over.

I think it would be a good strategy. I'm interested in Vitor boxing. I always take the box like MMA versus boxer. In my mind, I have so much respect for the sweet science. I thought Oscar De La Hoya would destroy Vitor. But Oscar came out after this and, man, it was good I didn't take that fight. He would have beat me. That surprised me.

That was a fake. That had to be fake. The whole COVID thing? The COVID hospital selfie video? I mean, come on. He was literally writhing in agony like someone was poking him with hot meat. Did you ever see that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But either way, I would have thought that the golden boy, the Olympic champion, the

six-time world champion, I would think he would go take care of Vitor, who had very limited experience. It probably depends on the drug testing in that event. Chael, you playing your greatest hits and talking about them could fill any podcast, but people do that all the time. What's your behind-the-scenes greatest hits on how you navigated the business side of it? On times you went face-to-face with Lorenzo and Dana and didn't flinch and got exactly what you were looking for. Yeah, well, boy.

I think I was nice. I mean, on top of everything else, that's the one the business book won't tell you. If people like you, it's not a bad thing. I think I was nice to work with. Yeah top of everything else, that's the one the business book won't tell you. If people like you, it's not a bad thing. I think I was nice to work with. Yeah, I found that out the hard way, too. Yeah, no, that's right. I know that you did. But the greatest move, if you're talking about a stunt,

I wanted to fight on a 20-year anniversary. George St. Pierre was headlining. I thought that it would do new numbers. So I hired a graphic artist who put out a poster of me versus Rashad and made a UFC announcement. Stole their logo, did the whole bit, put it out there. And the media went with it. And Joe Silvaco, what are you doing?

And they made the fight. They had to make the fight. I already said that we're the co-main event. The media will print anything. They're the worst. Yeah, we are terrible. But the UFC was jammed up, though. Like, how do we not do this now that it went out?

And I thought that was a good caper by me. I thought that was a good caper by me. I thought that was a solid move. What event was this? It was a 20-year anniversary. It could have been 25-year. George St. Pierre fought Johnny Hendricks. Oh, yes, yes, yes. And I co-main evented that card.

Yes, okay. 2013, yeah. Yeah, roughly. 2013. So do you look back and say, I was a company man? Do you look back and say say I was always a businessman who was ahead of the game thinking the next move ahead of the establishment? How do you sort of grade yourself in how you navigate it?

Well my whole motivation is I was just a competitor that wanted opportunities. That was all that it was. It's very hard to get a world title fight. It's hard to get main events and so I was just a competitor that wanted opportunities. That was my main motivation. But I think when it was done, you could definitely put me in the category of company man. When they needed a favor, they needed a short notice, they knew who to call. And in exchange, I just wanted the opportunity. So I felt like we were both doing what the other one wanted. They thought I was a great guy willing to help out, but I wanted those calls.

So it is your view that the way you were able to advance was, I'm going to do them a solid and then just hope on the back end that they reward that very much so yeah tend to very much so hey I'm seeing Colby Covington doing that Colby's doing doing everything right going hey wait a minute I'm doing more than the guys that are getting and I think Colby's getting a little bit frustrated with it I don't think he's going to change but there is some stuff within this sport um where the better you are at doing something the more willing you are your only reward is you get asked to do it again and again. I think that Gilbert Burns, I think that all the favors that he's pulled and all the tough that he's done, I'm not sure that that's getting paid back in some ways.

That's the only part. I think that that model definitely worked for you. I just don't know how scalable that model is for the roster. There's only a couple of guys or ladies or whatever, Angela Hill for example, for example, she says yes to everything, and I think she's got some opportunity to show what's good. Well, you've got to be great to win the hard fights that you're putting yourself in by being so willing to fight anybody at any time. You need magic, you need luck, you need everything.

That's why when you see guys go on these special next level runs, the McGregor from 2015 to 2016, it's like everything has to go perfect. There's not a line of McGregors out that door. There's just not. There's not a lot of Chael Sonnen's out that door. Hey, they just had a move over the week where they had to put three fights together. I mean, Jon Jones has been out two years because we can't get the fight made. I mean, Hunter and Dana had to put three fights together backstage.

You go and fight Chamayev, it's a number one contendership. You fight Chamayev, you're getting a whole bunch of money. I guarantee Kevin Holland just said yes. I'd have got him $100,000 on the spot and a no-cut clause. I mean, right? It just would have happened. They would have said yes like that. I guarantee Holland was just, he wanted to do it.

He wanted to do the match. But I feel like guys like that, I do hope they get paid back down the road. Especially the Leach. I don't want guys getting cut. The Leach was the only one I feel like got fucked because of all the six. He was the only one that had to then fight an opponent who was way above him in weight. They looked like they were in different weight classes when they were in there. Not Rodriguez's fault. He was supposed

to fight Holland on the catch weight. It just worked out that way. He kind of got screwed a little bit, I feel like. And the judges kind of fucked him, maybe too. Yeah, a lot of people think that. Yeah, I think it was a split decision overall, but Dana came out and said he had it the other way. He thought the Leach went. I had Rodriguez, by the way. I thought it was a really close fight. I mean, it could have gone either way.

I thought the Leach got handled there, but I want to spin it to this. Handled? Handled by the judges. I throw a lot of statements out. You're right. I don't accurately define what I really mean. I meant handled by the judges a bit.

Chael, let's say UFC calls you up and says, we'd like you to consult with us as a matchmaker. We'd like you to come into the war room. They say, we probably got three to four blockbusters left with McGregor. What do we do with him, Chael? What do you say? I have a weakness in matchmaking, I must tell you. I honor that skill because I don't have it.

My strength would come once the fight's made. I'll come tell the audience why. I'll come tell them what the story is and why we're here. You're whispering to somebody's ear. Hey, Colby, drop the Trump thing. Get on to Santus. It's the future, all right? Well, and hey, there's some where you look at it and go, why are we here?

Why are we fighting? I'll go back to Surreal gone and tied to Ivana. What is on the line? You've got the number one guy versus the number four guy. You've got a sold-out crowd. The number one guy stops the number four guy. Any place in history, that means he's fighting for a world championship. That wasn't even discussed.

It wasn't even dangled. Why were they fighting? What was this about? For Paris. For the French market. For the French market. Just to put on a good match, I guess. Because Ciro's kind of blowing up

in that market. This was their first show there. They got a big, strong, fucking athletic heavyweight. He turned in a dynamic performance. I think that's one of those. Because I've said this before. I said it on MK. I remember when the UFC went to Germany. It was a very small affair. This was not. This was a big one, right? I think they saw what happened when

London blew up last year. It just became a thing for them. France is the third biggest market in all of Europe, just behind the UK. It's a big market. And they have potential to do Ghan versus

Ngannou for the belt in frickin' Paris in the not-too-soon distant future. Obviously, Jon Jones could crash that. Hey, let's talk about Jon Jones.

Before we get to Jon Jones, I do want to get one answer from you on McGregor. Who would they or who should they match him next with? George Masvidal. What?

That's the entire. Who? George Masvidal. There's going to be no significance in terms of ranking or title contention. We're talking about bringing him back for a title. Let's stop with that silliness. Conor's on an island where whatever he does is going to be a big deal. Whatever George does next isn't going to be the title fight.

Some of these things are time. But I just think that's the match. And don't forget the whole reason Con went to one 70 in the first place because Dana white made an offhanded comment that got captured by TMZ, where he said, I'd never make that fight. George is too big for him. And gosh,

George is like, I'm too much, man. So Connor said, well, just a second. His next fight, he goes and fights cowboy at one 70.

They have a story there and that's, that's the match. So that's why it won't happen, by the way. So is that why, in your mind, they're not making the Jorge versus Gilbert Burns fight? Because Burns has been advocating for that fight. I think the reason they didn't do that is Masvidal thought he was going to be able to slide in and get the match with Leon. Now, that was being very unaware of your own career, but we all do that at times. And so he stalled that match, trying to get Gilbert tied up, trying to get the match with Leon is what I believe.

And three-piece in a soda needs to be answered for. It's just not going to be answered for in the form of a title match. Not right now. Yeah, I didn't see that there was a lot of interest in that necessarily, that particular iteration. All right. I would have told Leon, by the way, to go like this when Jorge came at him and say, I don't want to fight you.

I don't want to fight you. You know, Southpaw stance. That was an old Vondrele Silva reference. Remember we were talking about that the other day. Thanks for selling. I don't want to fight you. You know, Southpaw stance. That was an old Von Der Leisilva reference. Remember we were talking about that the other day. Thanks for selling. Thanks for putting the little, you know.

What BC does is he just rolls grenades into conversations and then wants you to jump on it. That's one of the sales greatest hits, okay? But I got it. I speak his language. Thank you very much.

Let's talk about Jon Jones here for a second. Here's the thing. Am I excited about him potentially fighting? I guess. I don't know when the hell it's going to happen despite all the talks. And here's the thing. Am I excited about him potentially fighting? I guess. I don't know when the hell it's going to happen, despite all the talks. And here's the other part that I'm more curious

about. It's not that I don't think he can't go up there and win. He might go up there and do exactly the same thing he did at light heavyweight. But the part that gives me a little bit of pause, and I'm not trying to be unfair to him. I'm trying to be just accurate about the circumstances. There was a decline at the end of his light heavyweight run. I thought Dominic Reyes beat him outright. The Santos fight was close. The Smith fight was kind of weird. You look at his numbers, his takedown success rate plummeted at the end there. I think he attributes that to maybe burnout. You can believe that or not. I have no idea if that's true. So my only point is, could he do well at heavyweight? He might go and win the belt right away. I just don't believe it's, I should

automatically assume that he's going to. I need to see what he actually looks like. Where are you on that spectrum? I will tell you this, if Jon Jones hears you say that, he's going to love it. He wants something, he wants to be questioned. He wants to be challenged. Really? Seems like he wants to be adored.

Well, on some hands, but I really think he left 205 because it had been exhausted. I think he's looking around and going, yeah, I'm having close fights with Reyes or I'm having close fights with Santos. But he was better than that. He wasn't getting the training. He wasn't getting pulled out of him. The audience was expecting too much from him.

I think he wants to be in a position where he really is questioned. I think he's got a matchup problem. Look, we took the last two years to move John into heavyweight, to wait that he's comfortable, but also to tell the story to the audience. Can Jon Jones overcome a deficit? That deficit is simply going to be a size disadvantage. But now they're talking about putting him with Stipe. Jon's going to weigh in heavier than Stipe,

and that whole two-year experiment is going to go up in smoke when they get to the scales. I think the right opponent is really important, and I'm not sure I buy this Jon Stipe match. Or how about this match? Prior to Ngannou getting decided. How about Jon Jones tied to Iwasa? I like that.

I mean, I think you probably have something there. Two of us is coming to Austin. They're not going to match that. Two of us is a real street fighter. I've got to see somebody that can defend a takedown, or I can't have a question with Jon. I think it's a real gun. You know, just the fact that he had 15 fights and was never taken down.

I think there's something special there. I'll tell you the hardest fight, skill-wise, for Jon Jones, easily the hardest fight is Curtis Blades. I was going to say that, yeah. Curtis Blades is the most slept-on fighter, maybe on that roster. What did he do? He's upset the audience. What did Curtis Blades ever do? To me, in an interview with me, I brought up fighter pay to him.

It was ahead of the Volkov fight, and he went off about fighter pay. And then Dana, in every interview the rest of that week was just like, well fuck this guy. Yeah, but more than that, someone accused him of being boring and he's like, yo, let me explain something to you. I'm going to be as boring as fuck. Boo me. Eat a dick. Don't give a fuck.

He was not merely adamant about the idea that he wasn't going to cater to anyone else's interest. He had disdain for the idea that he should even be questioned about it. Which is weird, because you actually look at his style. He started out as a really wrestling-based guy. Still obviously is. But now there's a little more striking involved. And he put out Chris Dawkins' lights without a takedown.

Yeah, he made a point of doing that, for sure. Still, nevertheless. But the people aren't over that. I mean, I heard those two interviews you guys read. The audience is not over that. I mean, I've really never seen a guy as willing as him. He goes and fights in Ghana before we knew it was in Ghana. He then wants to do guys read. The audience is not over that. I mean, I've really never seen a guy as willing as him. He goes and fights Ngannou before we knew it was Ngannou. He then wants to do it again.

He gets slept in 30 seconds. He flies to him, completely out of the continent to do it again. He gets put out in under a minute again, and he's begging to fight him a third time. Like, those are the kind of guys we usually like. Yeah, you're right, because he had two moments, the Derek Lewis knockout. He's not a media darling either. And the second Ngannou one where it looked like he was ready to make a run, and both times it just got snuffed the hell out of him.

The more I've been in media, the more this is just absolutely true. And, Cheo, you know this because you were one of them. The media picks its darlings, right? Like, you know, the Leech, even though he doesn't speak much English, is a media darling now in certain ways. You were one. There's some other ones. And they give outsized coverage to certain ones at the expense.

There's only 24 hours in a day. There's only so many columns you can write. I think he's on the other end where he's just not even selected for that, irrespective of his abilities. And so he's in that space. But still, getting back to John, gun to your head. Gun to your head. Really, really thinking about it.

Not can he. Does he win a UFC title at heavyweight? Yes, doggone it, he does. You think so? Yeah, probably too. He probably wins the interim and then the undisputed. I'm largely going off of rumor in the practice room, but the campfire is real important.

Henry Cejudo sees him. He's in the practice room. He saw him with, you know, I'm not supposed to talk about, but he saw him with Prohaska. He saw him with these top guys, and Henry says he's better now. What do you say? Jesus. That's frightening.

Yes, but that's not how a human being works. You don't get better with time. You don't get better at something by not doing it. You'll get better once you get bigger and you get smaller. He broke all the rules. He always has. He always has. He's got small calves.

Yeah, I'm not ready. I'm not ready to dismiss him. I'm cheering against him. I'll be fine about that. I'm not ready to dismiss him. Do you ever worry that you'll accidentally cross paths and he'll run up on you? Oh, I think he will. Because you've said greasy shit about him. Yes, yes. He came up to me one time egregiously greasy yeah yeah which i think was

i think that's where this was going to happen and uh he saw that my mother was there and he flipped instantly he gave her a hug he introduced himself no way yeah i gotta give him credit for that he was he treated my mother very nicely yes he can't no he can't rashad has a similar story by the way about that was the reason why him and that Rashad and John ended up killing their beef because their moms got involved yeah no I could see that and he had to look in his eye was the I knew exactly what was going to happen I was I was preparing to defend myself and he he saw her where was this uh we were in a hotel lobby uh yeah we're in New Jersey and he said and he said hey I just want to come over and introduce myself you're Chael's mom right I mean he turned it on instantly.

But I got to give him credit. You know, a guy treats you right in front of your mom. I respect that. You give him credit. Chael, how come nobody ever references the fact that you were the former WEC middleweight champion? I mean, can we put a little bit of respect on that title? I appreciate you saying that because that's my only one.

That's my only title. I mean, you never even played up. If I were you, I'd be walking around. Do you still own the title? I got it. Paulo Filho sent me the belt, yeah. Did he really? mean, you never even played up. If I were you, I'd be walking around. Do you still own the title belt? I got it. Paulo Filho sent me the belt, yeah. Did he really?

Yes, he did. No shit. I think Ed Soares made him, but I haven't. He sent me the belt. Paulo made me a video about two years ago. Just sent me a bit. You can do that with the iPhone now. It was very sweet to catch up with him.

I've never spoke to him. I've never seen him since. Filled me in on what he was doing. I heard he had some problems. Is he okay? Yeah, I think so. I know he had some substance problem and he ultimately ended up, I think so. I know he had some substance problems and he ultimately ended up shot.

Someone shot him. It was like in the leg. Like physically? Yeah, but he refused to say. He refused to tell anyone. I mean, it's just kind of this weird thing. He thought he was going to lose his leg. Dude, folks don't know how good he was.

He was 60. He was a fucking Terminator. Rank number one. He was Paul Harris, not quite as jacked, but he was the Paul Harris. But he was actually much smarter. Great comparison. And then he met Jail Sonnen. But he was actually much smarter. Great comparison.

And then he met Chael Sonnen. But he was ranked one. I mean, Anderson was two and Henderson was nine. I just kind of remember the rankings back then because I was falling with it. So, yeah, people really respected him. And Chael P. Sonnen. And I got that belt. Thank you for mentioning that.

Does the P stand for Pancrase or Punani? The P stands for Icon. Okay, okay. Chael, I don't want to blow up your spot, but I have to ask. I have to ask, because we're running out of time here. Can you talk about what happened in March of this year in the hotel? Yeah, well, the first thing is, why are you at the Luxor? That's job one.

Your first mistake was going to that bed bug infestation. No, I can't talk about it. It's still active, right? It's still active, yeah? It's still active. Okay. Are you expecting a resolution in 2023? Oh, my. I mean, statistically, it takes a couple of years, as a matter of fact.

Cowboy Cerrone went through something and has told me, hey, just so you know what to expect. Yeah, it was on a boat. Before we wrap up here, how are you in your personal life? Are things okay? You're good to go? Just saying. Thank you for asking.

Kids are doing great. Wife's doing great. We're bored. We're a little bit bored. Bored? Oregon was very shut down. We're the most shut down state in the nation, but we're so small the media didn't cover us. And we're still not 100% open.

There's still a place where you have restrictions on number and whatnot. So the pandemic was tough in Oregon. We're still coming out of it. We're bored. We're a little slow. Are you going to move? No, no, no, no. You would never move?

No, I would die in West Linn. What's the best part about West Linn? I've never been. Actually, you know what? I've been to many places across the world. I've never been to Oregon. I've never been to the great Northwest. You never will.

Yeah. No, I'd like to go, actually. I could pay a number of compliments to our city. I mean, the school does very well, and the crime rate's low, and that type of stuff. But those are just my people. That was my people. That was my town. Some guys never, you know, they never fully grew out of their high school.

It's a weird thing when they don't. And I'm in that weird category. I lived two point miles from the high school. I still go in every day and coach the wrestling team. So some guys, you know, they get trapped. And maybe that was me. But that's my town. Are you still involved with Eagle FC?

Yeah, yeah. I'm the commentator for Eagle FC. Yeah, we had an event canceled. As a matter of fact, we had two. And my understanding was that they went to Russia and held those events. But then I've heard other rumors. and uh but yeah I'm still involved how was it awesome organization is Habib a total maniac oh man he I thought that was just a name thing he is calling shots over there um he was running yeah right in front of me calls Mike Tyson I'm a big fight so calls Mike Tyson on FaceTime then he's got to talk to Scott Coker

talking Coker about getting Fedor Milianenko, and then somebody came to him and wanted to know about the menu, and he had to call the menu that everybody was getting. You know, he was busy, man. I respected it. Khabib works hard. Khabib took a red eye, was in the hotel super late checking in, barely awake, and he was up at 5 a.m. cutting weight with his teams.

We did the Eagle FC, and the next night I caught him in Phoenix at a Bellator event cornering a different guy. Jesus. He is an animal. By the way, Khabib's actually secretly very funny. Do you guys know that about him? I never knew him. His digs at Cormier are great. He factions him openly. No, he's a very funny guy.

We've got to play the hits a little bit to close here. I'm always going to give you respect for entering that Bellator heavyweight tournament when you're past the prime, but we're looking at the bracket going, you might be able to make a run. The matchmaking, you made it work, and then you fought Fedor.

Yeah. Were you... I mean, you're at that point in your career, you're not scared of anything, but you knew he still had quick hands. Yes. Was that a fight you walked in there going, I'm really not sure what this is going to look like?

Yeah, well, the rampage was too. Yeah, heavyweight was a different experience. I have never had fun in the sport, I'm really not sure what this is going to look like. Yeah, well, the rampage was too. Heavyweight was a different experience. I have never had fun in the sport. I enjoyed it. I like times like this, but I've never had fun in that octagon. I had fun with the favor fight. If I could go back and do it. He hit me in ways, but it was special being in there with him.

There's an aura around him. You just feel it. I feel that when Hoist Gracie walks in the room. Just a couple of guys and he got in my way you know i'm a fan of the sport that's a problem at times when you look up to guys or your feet i was way down in middleweight i'm never gonna have to deal with this guy and i'll set him up two weight classes and here he is that's a real thing to get over he hit me with a missile five seconds in and as i as i fell to the ground the only reason i got up uh as i knew it have been a record, and I don't want that record. And I was doing that.

I don't know if you recall. I was doing this to get up, and he backed away. It bought me a couple of seconds, but... And a very nice human being. I don't like to compliment guys after I fight them. I think it sounds weird, but just a really special human being. Yeah, especially when you don't ask them about Russian literature and get all the other interviews canceled that day.

Fuck off. Eat shit. Okay, Chael. So, look. We're journalists, but we're obviously really just fans in disguise. I'll tell you the three fights that the fan in me got the most excited for in the minutes leading up to it, right? It was like Lesnar-Carwin. You get it, right?

Sure. Khabib-Connor. You get it. Chael Anderson, too. Dude, I was higher than a... I mean, I had a hard-on from here to Hanover, Ohio. Dude, he tells all his guests about his erections. It's fucking weird. I'm telling you, I was

so fired up for where that fight could go. That's sweet. Thank you. You had some spinny shit that didn't go right, and then the fight was over. What would the rest of that fight look like if you hadn't made that error? We have to wrap on that, though. Massive regret of my life. I went down on that. I fell down, and I'm down.

And Anderson took a step backwards. He was trying to let me up to my feet. Then he changed his mind. He changed his mind to come in. But I saw that step. I mean, that step replays in my mind in slow motion. And I had an opportunity to stand up. And I didn't take it. But it was a choice. I don't mean I missed a beat. I chose to stay dead. There was something about this moment. That'll happen a lot in a fight where you're ready to check out. You've got to fight yourself. You come back from it.

But that was my moment. I learned something about myself in that moment. And then he needs you subsequently to that. Threw a knee and kind of swarmed me in there, but I wasn't going anywhere. All right. Well, listen, we're getting the rap signal. We've got to go. Chael, you will be out there hosting the presser for Jake Paul Anderson Silva.

It is always good catching up with you. You are everywhere. For folks, give us a plug. Where can they find your stuff? YouTube. Just go to YouTube and I'll be happy. There it is. The Gangster from Westland, Oregon. He's still got it. It's Chael Sonnen, RSD. Ryan Campbell, Luke Thomas, we're out.