MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Conor McGregor's Future, Nick Diaz, Poirier's Resume | Luke Thomas' Live Chat, ep. 81

Episode Date: July 16, 2021

Today on the podcast, we'll discuss the future of Conor McGregor following his injury TKO loss to Dustin Poirier at UFC 264, what to expect from the return of Nick Diaz, Colby Covington's dispute with Poirier, Brian Shaw as a historically-great strongman competitor, best ever war of attrition in combat sports, Morning Kombat shows on the road, Brendan Schaub's Fight Companion, Tyson Fury vs. Francis Ngannou and more. Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit: store.sho.com   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat  To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, I guess. Hi, everyone. My name is Luke Thomas. It is the 15th of July, 2021, and it is time for episode 81 of my live chat. If you'd be so kind, please give it a thumbs up. Hit subscribe if you are new here. If you've already subscribed, and this is sort of a new MK experience to you, I do these most Thursdays. I don't really do these when I'm Thursdays on the road because

it's a little too hard to do them, but certainly when I'm at home, which is the overwhelming majority of the time, we do these. I put up a thread on the community section of the YouTube channel right here. Usually the day before on Wednesday, people will fill it up and then we go to answer it. In fact, I think I have it up here. Yes, I do. So without further ado, let's get this party started. All right, and there we have it. Okay. I just want to say thanks to everyone who, you know, we said it on Monday and whatever, but I just want to say thanks again to everyone who made last week such a grand success. It was a big deal for the brand and even the Showtime folks who weren't really out with us because that was sort of a CBS Sports operation.

My job is weird. I sort of serve a couple of masters, but yet only one. I don't know how to explain it. But most of the Showtime folks, there was only two of them out there and they were just sort of serving in an ancillary production role. It was important, but it wasn't a Showtime thing. It was a CBS Sports thing. Even they were reaching out and being like, oh my God, it was so great. So couldn't happen without you folks. And we're really appreciative, super appreciative, okay? So like the video, hit subscribe, join us. All right.

All right. I will go for an hour and change today, okay? All right, we'll turn this off. Okay. Okay. Okay Alright, first question Put the desk a little lower too Jesus There we go Look, what did you make of John Kavanaugh's

Comment that he saw nothing in Conor McGregor's performance that concerned him And felt that McGregor was Before the injury occurred, well-placed to either finish Dustin in the next round or go on to secure a victory. This was made when talking to Laura Sanko the day after the fight. I mean, a lot of times people ask me to come on here

and parse what a teammate said or what a coach said as like, hey, do you think this is accurate? When what they might be doing is, they might be saying how they feel, at least in some part, but they're probably leaving out some things that they noticed. They're probably, if you know, I don't know that Conor McGregor's like Deontay Wilder, probably not. Deontay's pretty special in that way, in the sense that he's incredibly sensitive. But like, you know, how long do you keep a job working for someone famous and powerful

by criticizing them? Listen, I'm not here to say that the entire thing he said was disingenuous. What I'm pointing out is, whether it was completely honest or completely disingenuous, I have no way of knowing. If you're asking me to evaluate the claims independent of that, because I can't accuse a man of being disingenuous when I don't know that he is but except to say I've seen this movie before where you know years later people like oh yes of course we saw all those problems and I just couldn't say at the time I could that be here I don't know but let me just say this uh that before the injury occurred Connor was well placed to either finish Dustin in the next round or go on to secure a victory.

I don't know what anyone could have seen that would have told him that. Now, let me explain what I mean by that. It's not to say that I thought Conor was completely out of the fight. I did not think he was out of the fight. I thought he lost the first round. I didn't think it was 10-8. I saw it again. I thought that was 10-9.

Clear 10-9, but 10-9, not 10-8. Okay, but he won 10-9. And I did see a big skill difference on the ground. But how much of that was impacted by any kind of pain or injury that he had previously suffered, not so much before the fight, but as the fight. I think they went to the ground at roughly the halfway mark, something like that.

I have to go back and check. What I'm pointing out is, walking around the cage and in some of the first kicks that he threw to Dustin, did he exacerbate the injury then? And so by the time he was on the ground, he wasn't really able to be himself. It's hard to know. I was very critical of Conor in the Chad Mendes fight

because he just locked up his guard and didn't really attempt anything. I was like, the guy's just got no guard. I mean, he was able to prevent passing for the most part, but there was no offense from it. And then you find out he had a really terrible knee injury. So you've got to be a little bit careful about that. But at the same time, it did appear to me that one thing that people, I keep going back to, I said it on the post-fight show on Saturday night, if you watch how Dustin maneuvered

through this, there was really no attempt to pass it. More to that point, every time he would step out of the guard, he would step right back into it. I think he felt comfortable inside of Conor's guard, whether that's because Conor's guard is not particularly offensive in MMA or he had an injury or whatever, he was able to go right back into it. And then on top of it, he had, I thought, pretty good, not amazing, but pretty good ground and pound. So, like, I don't know what, he was teeing off on Dustin early, but here's the thing.

It's like, dude, Dustin's battle tested. Eventually that will cost him too if he keeps going. But for now, it appears that he's pretty fresh. He's been kicked by every kind of leg kicker you can imagine, including Justin Gaethje, who I would imagine does just as well as Conor at leg kicking, if not better. And he was able to withstand basically four rounds of that. When I say you, I mean the proverbial you out there, but if people thought that was going to wilt Dustin Poirier, evidence doesn't really support that at all, not to my knowledge. And also, he got countered. Part of the reason why they went to the ground was because Dustin

was landing on him at range and getting off the center line and landing his own, I believe it was his own left hand right up the middle, caught McGregor by surprise. It pushed him back two different times and he then initiated short range contact. Then he throws a knee to the body, Dustin catches it and then uses that to drive him to the fence and then get the takedown. They were on the ground because of Conor. And yes, he was landing on those leg kicks and they looked fucking hard, man. I mean, his leg got broken probably in part

because of those, probably. So he was lighting them up, let's be clear about it. But like, you know, you're talking about maybe the best active 155-pounder in the world. Going to take a lot more than that to put that guy down. A lot more than that. And you're already getting, not beaten on the feet, but pushed back and then forced into close quarter exchanges, which you did not want probably.

Like, listen, is it entirely conceivable that absent that injury that Conor could have gone in there and landed a big shot and shut the lights out in the second round? Of course it is plausible. It is entirely plausible that that could have happened. But did I see anything in the first round that would tell me that was imminent? Or like Dustin was in trouble? Or not even in trouble, but like the groundwork had been laid for something bigger.

No, I didn't see that at all. So to me, Conor, not out of the fight until the injury took him out of the fight, but he was losing, and you could make a case that he was losing in all but basically one dimension. And the one dimension he was not losing in ultimately may have played a role in his injury. And that whole injury thing is interesting with Conor, isn't it? Like these new revelations.

We're going to get to this tomorrow on Morning Combat. I don't want to say necessarily a whole lot about it, but every time, I mean, Conor, you just have to kind of call it what it is. Like, I don't think he's Deontay Wilder bad. Conor makes a lot of excuses. A lot. You know, oh, I lose to Floyd. Yeah, come fight me in MMA. Okay, well, all right, that's one thing. And, you know,

Habib takes him to the ground. It's like, all right, what about the lack, what if there was no wrestling? And then you get whooped on the feet by Dustin. And it's like, okay, what about the lack? I mean, it's always something that you can point to. And listen, I'm not one of these guys who thinks that like all excuses deserve to be dismissed. Like, oh, the only thing you could say is none of those things mattered. I mean, obviously they fucking matter on some level. If you have a really bad injury or some kind of issue that affects competition, I mean, understand, have you ever seen these guys race in Ladies 2 and these cross-country things, and then one person wins by like.0001 second?

Man, at the elite level, sometimes grand competitions are decided by the narrowest of margins. Dude, if you had food poisoning, for example, the day of a fight, I've seen people win with food poisoning. I saw Joe Warren beat Patricio Pitbull back in Kansas City fucking 10 years ago or something. And he had food poisoning that morning. It can be done. But the whole point is, dude, obviously if you have something like that, it's going to affect you. But the difference, I think, between Conor and some of these other situations is, one, when he was winning, he was still able to overcome them. When he had the injury after the fact with Chad Bendez and it turned out like he had a whole fucked up knee and it was

a disaster and he still found a way to win it. You're like, wow, man, he was able to overcome. So it didn't even stop him in those cases. And then the other part is it's like, dude, do you not think other fighters think the same way? Like on some level they had this kind of injury or that kind of distraction, or they had an opponent who was single-minded about one tiny weakness, but it was enough for the whole thing to come out. They all probably feel that way on some level, which I bring up to say, not that it's not true or relevant, but it's relevant to the point of boring. Like that's the game.

That's the game. The game is having the most amount of skills and being as durable as possible um and then just dealing with you know the the various challenges that come with competition that's the game that's the game so like you need you need to be sensitive i think to the reality that these guys are mortal they're human they go into fights with really bad conditions. Who knows what Dustin went in there with. I'm sure he had something going on too. You never know. Ryan Hall fights Ilya Teporyev.

First fucking punch he throws, his hand breaks. This is unfortunate and that should play a role in how you understand how fights play out. But you watch enough of this, you see enough of this, you begin to realize that all of these challenges, whether the opponent didn't quite line up right, whether you had a nagging injury, whether you had some kind of competitive distraction, that's the game. That's what they do. That is the game. That is how it is played.

It is maneuvering through all of these minefields. And it's too hard for someone like me to even try, so I don't bother. I'm not built for that. I understand that. But just in talking to experts over the years and watching it all the time, I mean, I've probably seen how many thousands of fights you just, this is, you know, oh, I had an opponent who was, you know, who went after something different this time. That's the game.

That's the game. So I do think that the injury could serve as a real reset moment where you have to really rebuild your functional ability through that leg and developing it again and what that could do for him long term. I think there's a real possible way he could come back and be as dominant as ever. I don't know, but remind people what time it is. Yeah, I think that's very possible. Absolutely, I think that's possible.

I also think it's possible that the magic is already gone and he's on borrowed time and he could recover from this injury but never really be the same. And that's all basically it, you know. I mean, if you come back one more time and you lose to Dustin one more time, you know, what are you supposed to say at that point, you know? The last thing I would say is, in defense of Conor and then to take any analysis I give you with a grain of salt, I got the prediction in the first fight wrong.

I got the prediction in the second fight wrong. I got the prediction in the third fight right, but the third fight is the least conclusive among them. So, you know, take that for what it is worth as well. Do you ever worry about revealing too much about yourself given that there's crazy people out there or is that something that comes with the territory of being a well-known media member? No, you know, it's funny. I haven't said, I haven't told you guys this. So when I first started lifting in my front yard um i mean here's the thing man like there are other media members here in dc that have like prestigious jobs in the city like um you know people i know i know i know so many people who work at the post and and uh the washington post which you know if you can get a

job as like you know i'm the the NBA columnist at the Washington Post. Let me tell you something, folks. In the world of media jobs, that's very high up. And obviously I got a chance for a few years to work at 106.7 The Fan just on the weekends, but I know all those guys there pretty well, and they're really well-known in the city. And what's interesting is I think I have larger followings than virtually all of them, but not here, not here in my hometown. Uh, this has changed recently.

In fact, that's what I'm telling you the story. But for years I thought I had a bigger following than a lot of people. And like, you know, if I go to Vegas on a Conor McGregor fight week, I'm going to get recognized pretty consistently. But just here at some of my favorite hangouts, and I actually prefer it this way. Yeah, I'm just a regular old customer. I'm nobody special anyway. But I mean, I'm just a dude who walks in the door and pays his bill and walks out. So when I first started lifting weights in my front yard during the pandemic, it was funny because for months, nothing, like it was just people walking by, you know.

And I guess in the last maybe six months, maybe since the turn of the year, something like, I can't quite put my finger on when exactly it happened. But like I've had multiple neighbors recognize me. You know, it's funny, man. I would go to like these towns where the fights are happening, Kansas city, Las Vegas, whatever. And you have a certain life among the fight community that, you know, it operates the way that it operates. DC was always like an oasis away from that. I was always able to come home and I could just let it all go. Like it had no bearing on anything. I'd meet people in the city and they'd be like, oh, what do you do? And I'd tell them and they couldn't even like, they're like, what? You cover the WWE shit? Like, I mean, it was just, you know, starting from scratch all the time, you know? And

I actually kind of liked it. And I guess recently there's been, I have had a bunch of people like, you know, I was benching one time and some guy was like, Luke Thomas? Is that you? And I was like, yeah, it's me. You know, it gets a little weird when like people who listen to your podcast walk by your house and they're like, oh, you live here? That's a little weird. But I would say in general, I think more often than not,

the audience tends to appreciate sharing these details. I don't post a lot of pictures of my wife. I don't share a lot of details about how to get in contact with her because there are some crazy people. And sure enough, even with me kind of withholding that information, anybody intrepid enough could find it. And some try, they're inevitably, every one of them is fucking weird. So, you know, I try to keep that kind of stuff. I'll probably

post fewer and fewer pictures of my daughter as she gets older, you know. But, you know, in general, you got to be like significantly, first of all, I'm not famous, but to the extent that I have any kind of visibility, you got to be way more famous than that to have problems, you know, for the most part. It's just, yeah, it's a little unnerving when someone's like, hey, I was listening to Morning Combat. This is where you, this is your yard where you lift weights? It's like, you know, that's a little unsettling. But in general, it's fine. Luke, it's been so many years and Nick Diaz has a fight booked. What was that crazy fight he got offered that you did not want to share?

Later. Maybe when he retires, I'll tell you. What was the reason that Showtime removed one of your episodes recently? Did they? I didn't think they did. How did that play out? Do you guys have to watch what you say now? Fuck no. I mean, I can't go out there and be like, Showtime's the worst company ever and it's run by the Vatican.

Okay, you can't say stuff like that. I hope not. I really appreciate it with your honesty when it comes to all topics MMA. Folks, let me issue a challenge to you. We're counting on you to keep us honest. I mean, we'll be honest, but if we ever slip up, and it goes for BC too, please light us on fire. If there's ever any kind of card that's good, and I'm like, this card is shit because I'm trying to stick it to some promoter, call me on it. Vice versa. If I'm not fair to a fighter, call me on it. Most of you already do this anyway. No one's going to tell me what to say.

And if they try to, then I'm out. It's as simple as that. I think there was something wrong with that video Because if you actually look at the audio It was just left up That video was taken down I don't know what the fuck was up with that But the audio stayed up

It didn't go anywhere So no, I don't think there was any of those issues there But Actually I don't know I don't really know what happened there But whatever happened I'm looking at you now The minute that someone says I can't know. I don't really know what happened there. But whatever happened, I'm looking at you now. The minute that someone says, I can't say what's on my mind,

you know, in a professional way or whatever, but I can't say what's on my mind, I'm out. I'm out. And honestly, like, yeah, I'll just leave it at that. And my bosses know that. And they have never told me. You can't say what's on your mind. They've never told me that.

So, we're good. Like, dude, who would hire me in 2020? Me. Me. Who would hire me in 2021 with the expectation that I'm just going to carry water for you? Like, why would you do that? And do you know anything about what i do and what i've said and what i've done in my career like if if you wanted and again they didn't but

i'm saying if someone wanted a lackey who would just be like yeah what's the what's the talking points boss uh i'm probably the wrong guy to hire. Favorite video on PervCity. I mean, I think you guys know what my search criteria probably looks like there. Brendan Schaub recently started his own fight companion. Can we expect to see you on there in the future or even have an MK fight companion in the future? Yeah, I was actually texting with Shab about some other things recently. I think last night Shab and I were texting and he invited me, not like for the next one, but he was like, we'd love to get you on in the future. So yeah, I mean, here's the thing. He did that for UFC 264. The only issue might be that for the fights he's going to want to do that for, I'm

guessing I will be on the road for, for the most part, but there might be a little bit of a window where we can get around that. Um, so we'll see, but yeah, I would listen, man, Brendan hustles, dude. He hustles. He's got all that below the belt stuff. He's got all of his independent podcasts. And I mean, you know, he fucking grinds, man. That dude grinds. He grinds. And now he's developing Thick Boy on his own. And you know, it's going to take some time to get it moving.

But he's already on his way. So God bless him. Was Bradley Martin any good? Obviously, I've not seen it because I was busy working. I'd be curious to see. I wonder what you guys think. Was Bradley Martin any good? Bradley Martin, I find to be like, you know, he comes off very bro-y.

If you just hear him talk. But his lifts are like, they're pretty impressive, just from a strength perspective. His technique is usually, he's not doing stupid-ass stunt lifts, but when he's doing actual lifts, his technique is clean. It's pretty good. If you hear him talk, he generally has a pretty good sense about how to lift properly, and he's obviously big as shit, you know? And he's obviously made a fuck-ton money like he I guess he might surprise us huh

what was your favorite childhood cartoon where that's been the most amount of time watching as a kid? Mom was pretty strict about time. So I'd say given the constraints, DuckTales maybe, something like that. Movie, childhood movie, Predator. Video game, Mortal Kombat, easy. Mortal Kombat was, that was a red pill moment, folks. You don't know what it was like to have arcades

where you would go to and then you'd see it. And then Mortal Kombat 2, that was a red pill moment, folks. You don't know what it was like to have arcades where you would go to, and then you'd see it, and then Mortal Kombat 2 was even really like the fucking holy shit moment. Is it time for Connor to acquire the services of Joshua Fabia? No. No, I don't think so. Honestly, guys, I mean, maybe you could, you know, send a different trainer over to Conor or whatever. I tend to think that, like, whatever issues he's having, whether he's, like, you know, he's got some durability issues and whatever else, I don't know.

Yeah, maybe a different trainer might be a little bit different. But, like, honestly, I think the – and this is a guess. My guess is that what's really a bit of a bigger issue different, but honestly, I think and this is a guess, my guess is that what's really a bit of a bigger issue for him is that I think the game's caught up a little bit. I think the game's caught up a lot actually. I don't know that he

I have this nagging suspicion and it's nothing more than that. A suspicion. Take that for what it is worth. But I have a suspicion that, like, I don't think he wants this exactly the way that he used to. Maybe it's too much to say at all, but, you know, I feel like he's trying to will himself through these moments a little bit, and he might still be able to win doing that, but that it's leading him to these various problems of trouble

that he has got himself into. And you could change the training and blah, blah, blah, but internally, if you don't have that same exact drive, bad things will happen. And dude, I said it on Saturday's post-fight show, dude, that guy already won, man. He won big. He won big. He won huge.

He beat the game, basically. He beat the game, so to speak. Where you come in and just make all the money in the world and have fame in any country you land in. Generational wealth. country you land in and generational wealth and first person to hold two UFC titles simultaneously. I mean, like, dude, what a career. If it ended today, what a career. Granted, if he can come back and get a huge win and, I mean, let's put it this way, put it, become champion again, I mean, that would be just absolute. I mean, he's already a legend, but that would just be, you know, true fucking Herculean stuff.

But even if he doesn't, you know, like, he already won. He already won. And I have a sneaking suspicion, a suspicion, nothing more than that. I have a sneaking suspicion that deep inside he feels that way. Like, I kind of already won. But we'll see. We'll see. What interview that you fumbled do you wish you could redo? I interviewed, I had one moment where my brain just short-circuited once. I was trying to interview, you guys probably never even saw it. I don't even know if we posted it. I did one with Lucas Matisse when he was on, I think Lucas Matisse, for a time,

you guys might not know this, but he was an Argentinian boxer. He might be retired now. I think he had a horrible showing against Pacquiao a few years ago, but who did he fight on that card? He was on the Mayweather, either Mayweather-McGregor, or I think it was Mayweather, not Mayweather-McGregor, Mayweather-Pacquiao, or Mayweather-Canelo. I think it was the Mayweather-Canelo card. I have to double check. But Matisse fought on that. And I just couldn't get going. I just, they were like, we're going to walk off if you can't ask this question. I was like, just, I just, for some reason, I couldn't form words coherently. It was one of those moments where my brain truly wasn't working. I eventually, before they walked off, I got out like, you know, five or six questions and it was fine.

But that was, Jesus, that was terrible. And so that was one. Another one that I fumbled. Probably had a few of those. I mean, in general, I kind of do my homework. I mean, some have been better than others. No, that's probably the worst one. Again, I've had interviews that may have been boring or, you know, eh.

But, like, they weren't, like, calamities. That was a near catastrophe that I avoided. Uh, Luke, what happened when... Was the Latina booty that walked by when you were about to ask Ryan Hall a question of the pre-fight scrum really so good it made you lose what you were going to say? No, I got a phone call from my wife and... We had a rough week last week. I haven't told anybody this, so I'll just tell you guys now.

The day that I went to Vegas, we had to put our cat down. In fact, so, you know, it was two days later, I think at that point. And there was just, my wife was dealing with a lot and it was bad. And it was bad. So when, as soon as I saw the phone light up, I was like, no, I got to take this. I had to take it. So I took it. But, um, but I ended up asking when I wanted anyway. So yeah, sorry about that. Luke, you said this week, then no one is a bigger fan of elder abuse than Brian. Have you forgotten about Kelly? For folks who may not know, Kelly was an assistant producer on my radio show at the time she was on the show, she was like 21.

And we were doing all these tests or challenges to see what she knew about anything other than her own generation in terms of popularity or cultural impact. So for example, she did not know who Harrison Ford was. Harrison Ford, of course, played in many roles, not least of which is in Star Wars. He played Han Solo. But, you know, there's a bunch of other stuff he's been in, obviously.

She had no idea who he was. None. I think she had heard the name the Wu-Tang Clan and could not name anyone in it. It was one of those moments where I realized, like, whoa, dude. Coolness. one in it you know it was one of those moments where i realized like whoa dude coolness you can get people like snoop who can be like cool over the course of generations but for most people coolness is a function of youth you know whatever the youth is listening to like i i'll get on i check youtube trending every day and i'll look on these videos, and it's like, Pooh Shite, like, who's on right now? Is it Pooh Shiesty? Who the fuck is there? Let's see. Doja Cat? It's like, you don't think I, I don't know who the fuck Doja Cat is. Alright, here's BLXT Chosen featuring Ty Dolla Sign and Tyga. When I was a kid, it was Big Tigger who was in the basement. And my friend, he did a DJ show for my friend's high school at the time.

It was years ago. And everyone knew he was Big Tigger. Y'all might not know that. And my friend went up to him. He's like, so you're Big Tigger, huh? He's like, no, no, no. It's Tigger. He's like, oh, yeah.

You mean like from Winnie the Pooh, Tigger He's like, no I don't know who Tyga is Let's see, Polo G I've seen him on here I don't know who he is Let's see who else they got up here DDG, Lakia

Murray And Koi LaRace, 2021 XXL, Freshman Cypher I bet that's terrible Ariana Grande, I've heard of her She's not really a rapper and Koi LeRae's 2021 XXL Freshman Cypher. I bet that's terrible. Ariana Grande, I've heard of her. She's not really a rapper, but you know. 21 Savage, I've heard of him.

He had the whole immigration thing, if memory serves. What else? What else do we have here? Oh, 2C. Don't know him. Here's somebody called Quaddeca. Don't know, NBA Youngboy. I do know Tyler, the creator.

Okay, but you get my point. Like, eventually this will happen to all of you if it hasn't already. I have terrible news for you. You imagine your life and your understanding of trends and coolness and everything as like, oh, I just know it as part of my daily operation of living, right? That will cease to exist. And it will get further and further and further from you. And to a point where one, you'll realize the gap is so big you can no longer cross it.

And two, you'll look at what's across the gap and you'll realize, I don't even want that shit anymore. That is the elderly position at which I have arrived. Luke, I loved the live show you guys did last week. Any chance of taking that type of show on the road? Well, I mean, it was on the road. I know what you mean though, other places. If yes, can you come to Toronto so I can see it live? Yeah, this is why I try to explain to you guys. It's like, and you already know the deal, but anytime that we do something like that,

we need the kind of support that shows the execs that there's something worth investing in, that there's something worth doing more of. And that was a bottom of the ninth Grand Slam. I mean, that's about what that was. That was extremely well-received at CBS. You guys know how I felt about what happened in Miami. I mean, the stupid fight, but what Showtime was trying to do for us there and how we were able to handle those various tasks. I think that they loved all of that. On the CBS side, which were the ones who

made that desk and everything else and made the arrangements and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, man, like they loved it. They loved it. So Toronto, I don't know. I mean, especially with immigration and all the COVID stuff, I don't know. But yeah, I think you're going to see plenty more of that. Very happy to see you treated well with Showtime and CBS, but why did you decide to do MK under the Showtime banner? Today it seems easy for anyone to start a podcast, and some of them become successful. I ask because you've mentioned paranoia about being fired,

and you've got equipment to do independent content, as well as a decent amount of technical savvy, so it would make sense that you would want your dream MK with lots of potential to be yours. Was it because your vision for MK is beyond the scope of just doing a podcast? Yes. And partnering with Showtime CBS would better help you achieve those things? Yes. Or maybe the terms of the contract were good, no compromises on your end, so why not go under Showtime? Correct. Also, if you're able to specify, if you happen to part ways with Showtime CBS, would you be able to continue the show independently,

and would it be with or without BC? Well, here's the funny thing. I don't have any designs on not working with BC anytime soon. In fact, to that point, imagine we did get fired for saying something on Room Service Diaries or something. Dude, the MK is me and BC. Like if you subbed me out, BC's entertaining,

but I don't think it would be the same. And conversely, if it was just me trying to do MK, I don't think it would work. Now understand, I think BC could thrive if you wanted to with a different vision without me. And I think if push came to shove, I could find a way forward as well. But like, obviously uniting our strengths is big. And I think everyone knows at this point,

the, the, the brand is me and him. You can't, you can't substitute that. You want MK, there's one way to get it. It's me and it's him. So like, um, you know, I think the, the, the bosses upstairs understand that, but also like, But also, the thing you mentioned was, and I've said this before, I was living a life pre-pandemic, I think a lot of you were like this, where I was just trying to do as much as possible, and then everything hit, and you were forced to take a reset. And then some of those things you have to get back to, but some of them you don't. And you're like, well, you know what, I don't have to get back to that.

I don't really want to get back to that. So that's been a bit of a challenge for me. But the other part is that, like, number one, first of all, CBS Sports came to me with, like, an offer that no one else had ever come to me before. I already knew someone on the inside, Brian Campbell, who was like, dude, I think this could be really, really good. Like, here's the lay of the land, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then because Showtime had such a senior role in it, and I really knew and trusted them, plus, to your point, MK is not just me and Brian doing the podcast. That's a big part of it. But, you know, again, it's me and Brian.

It's when we host weigh-ins. It's when we host media days. It's when we get to go do stuff at a desk. It's when we get to go do, sometimes he gets to do stuff independent of me, where he gets to go and fill in for Jim Gray. And believe me, there's been some offers thrown my way as well, too. Could we do MK without CBS and Showtime? Yeah, I guess you could, in theory.

But the level of investment, like what you don't want to be is in a place where you have a project that you believe in, that you know is good, that's not getting investment. Or if it's really important to you to never have any corporate influence whatsoever. Okay, that's a thing you could do. But if you're going to go the independent route, it's a lot more work on your own to make things happen. You're right. I do have the resources to, in theory, potentially pull it off. But I think that the things Showtime and CBS have... I mean, dude, does it not

look like to you that they're all in? I mean, dude, just from all of the social assets, we don't do any of those. We don't make any of the graphics. We don't make any of those videos. Nothing. Back where I used to... other jobs, you had to make... Like, dude, for this live chat, the previous iteration, the promotional practice live chat, understand something. I took a shot at vox media two weeks ago I'm happy to take another one of them now dude they never like they gave me the opportunity to like hey you can have the site

on whatever days it was Wednesdays at one I don't even remember to do the live chat, but they never lifted a finger. They never even did a logo for the show. Nothing. Like that logo I had, that was the black and yellow logo, a user made that. That podcast feed, I established. It's actually in my name. In fact, to the point when I left the site and they made the successor to it, I remember Sean El Shhaughnessy and Mark Ramondi, great guys. I saw Mark in Vegas doing well. No beef with them. But they hit me up

and they were like, hey, we need the login for the podcast feed. And I'm like, gents, I got bad news for you. That's mine. That's mine. I made it in my name

because Voxer as fuck wasn't going to do anything about it. You know what I mean? And listen, the live chat itself probably has a limited ceiling. I think even you guys understand that. But the point being is like, nothing was done. Nothing. Zero investment.

Never cost them a dollar, I don't think. They gave me one time a black magic card that I could use to take on the road to plug in a camcorder that I bought so that I could do it from the road or whatever, and I could plug it into my computer. So I didn't have to use the webcam. I could use an independent camera here. But that's fucking it. That is it.

That is it. So you compare that with like what's happening now, dude, it's not even The whole reason I ended up where I ended up is because I was like i'm only going to go to a place That has decided to make a bet on me Every time I have not every time but in general in general When I have bet on myself to win and to do better and to get what I want, I have been, in general, successful. So what I wanted was a hand. I wanted someone, some entity, to invest.

To say, we're betting on you. That's what I wanted someone, some entity, to invest. To say, we're betting on you. That's what I wanted. And they came with that exact offer in that exact language. So to me, it was like, yeah, sure. Listen, if things fall apart, I always have a plan B. All the stuff I've purchased. You can't even see all the stuff here, everything.

If everything falls apart, I'm okay. I'm okay. But I wanted a chance to be at a place that cared that I was there, that thought that I could deliver value, especially if they put money in, it would deliver even more value on the other end. Welcome to Showtime.

Welcome to CBS. Any chance you can get Brad Riddell back on the show? Would love to. I haven't talked to him in a while, but yeah, Brad's a very, okay, and Ariel is his Joker, I don't think that's quite right in the analogy, but okay, let's run with it. Who does that make you and BC? BC, it would make... I don't think, based on conversations I had in Las Vegas, I don't think UFC dislikes BC at all. And I'll say this again.

I said it on Monday's show. I'll repeat it. Boy, I got to tell you, that UFC media staff, they are pros, man. They are pros. They're honest with you. To me, to me, they are extremely fair, reliable, you know. So, but you're asking about Dana. That would make me, I don't know, a little Harvey Dent-ish Two-Face.

And it would make, I'm not familiar enough with like DC villains to know exactly who's who. That's funny. I'm not sure penguin would it make deep bc the penguin i don't know uh what is actually your favorite discon discontinued food item motherfucker i don't even know any discontinued foods what the kind of Chipotle with the lettuce that had rhinovirus in it? You know. Is that a favorite discontinued food item? Like, does anyone really miss

Crystal Pepsi? Tab? I mean, if it's discontinued, that shit's discontinued for a reason. This is way too long of a question. Could you break down how UFC contracts work? I mean, there's a lot to that. Jesus.

Jonathan Snowden has a big article he did for Bleacher Report. Let me... I'll tweet it out Okay here we go The business of fighting A look inside the UFC's top secret fighter contract And he got a

Contract expert To go through piece by piece This dude This labor law professor, Zev Eigen, or somebody else, to go through all the different pieces so you can see what they are demanding.

Because that's way too long of a question for this one. But I'll tweet that out at LThomasNews when this is all over. Josh Thompson says, a fighter's contract is extended six months every time they turn in a fight. Yeah, that's true. It may be three months.

I've double-checked that, but it could be six. But yes, it does get extended. If they offer you a fight and you say no, the contract gets extended. Are you surprised by the backlash Conor got for insulting Dustin's wife considering Adesanya has mocked John Jones's dead parent. He mocked her dead. I didn't hear him mock his mom. I heard him bring up his mom.

I didn't hear him. And again, I'm not saying it's not true. I did not see that. I saw him bring her up and even that gave me the heebie-jeebies. But no, I don't think he mocked her, did he? And fighters have always insulted each other's families. Well, a couple of things. Conor's going to pull into an audience. Remember, what's the biggest audience in combat sports, numbers-wise? What's the biggest one? Casuals. They're not there all the time, but when they're there, they're there in the largest amount of numbers.

Conor's going to pull into an audience that is not as fight-world savvy or maybe even fight-world numb as you or as I. So I think part of what might be driving that is you've got Stephen A. Smith, who has a large audience and has a large audience of people who are not probably dyed-in-the-wool fight fans. And so when he goes out there and says, this was disrespectful and blah, blah, blah, it's going to hit a little bit different for those reasons. I think that's probably a big part of it. That's probably the biggest part of it.

But the other thing to consider is you and I know the reality here. I don't recall John Jones' mother being mocked by Adesanya. I'll look that up. If I've got that wrong, I've got that wrong. But I don't think that's quite right. But you guys do know the reality here. I remember when Ricardo Mayorga, I bring this one up all the time, he told De La Hoya to his face he was going to drink his wife's breast milk.

I mean, you know, he said fucked up things. And not just in that fight, in a bunch of them. You know, there was a moment there where Chael Sonnen, people were like, oh, is he the greatest trash talker in the game? And for a while, he was obviously making a great run at it with what he was doing. But what he was doing was a little bit like PG-13 to Mayorga's R, R-rated or even X-rated shit. And so there was this categorical difference. But I guess the point I would make is that if you're used to the fight game, Dana White does have a pretty good point about it, which is, dude, people are going to say fucked up shit.

I think, for me, the moment that intervention is warranted is, well, one, as a company, a male fighter, was like openly gay with a boyfriend the whole nine yards and his opponent was calling him the six letter F word? Would they do something about that? Would they retreat to, well, people are just saying mean things in the fight game. I think you have to figure that part out. But absent those particular hot spots, they're just, you know, generally, if quite meanly, disparaging. I think you and I both know you just got to let it rock. That's just the way the fight game goes. Luke, your energy for MK last Friday was epic.

Reminded me of your Donald Trump Jr. Goober video. Y'all ever seen Donald Trump trying to do that masculine fucking deadlift thing? Jesus Christ, man. Okay, like, there's this weird thing. Y'all know which way I lean politically. I'm not here to restate it exactly. But there is this weird thing where you're watching Tom Cotton do these super fucking shitty push-ups. You know, like, I'm going to do performative masculinity.

It's like, dude, if you're'm gonna do performative masculinity it's like dude you're gonna performative masculinity you need to perform masculinity like you doing these half-ass push-ups and getting the job done don jr had a uh a deadlift that was so fucking horrendous i mean he he had the worst backbend ever i mean i can't believe his spine didn't pop out of his back. It was so fucking bad. And the reality is, if you at all were being fair about good and bad deadlifts, there is no way, there is no way you could say anything other than it was a horrible deadlift. Not just bad, really bad.

Like what you would show to someone. Not as bad as Tony Ferguson's first deadlift. That one took the cake. But a shade under that is Don Jr.'s deadlift. And I saw people being like, oh yeah, it's not so bad. I'm like, dude, you're fucking so disingenuous. Because if that was anyone who, I don't know, Chris Hayes or whatever, Hunter Biden or some shit, and they were turning in deadlifts like that, and you were trying to just call it down the middle you could never say anything positive about it but they were defending this guy because they loved him and uh i made a long video being like dude his fucking deadlift is terrible terrible

terrible dude if you're gonna record i mean people like why don't you record your shit i'm not trying to like impress none of y'all or anything. I live an ordinary life. I have an extraordinary job, but for the most part, I live an ordinary life. I don't do feats of strength. I can't rap. I don't know how to cook. I can't sing. I don't really know how to dance, basically, at all. What is it you want me to record you know and so the rule is if you don't record people could say whatever you know oh you're a coward you should record it yeah you can call me what you want i'm not recording it for me the rule is if you record it and you post it it's no longer yours doesn't matter whatever it is if you post it and record it and you give it to the internet they are going to have their say about it.

And, you know. Anyway, you're asking about last Friday. Yeah, last Friday was fucking great is what it was. But that, golly, worst deadlift I've ever seen. Not worst. Okay, that's not true. Again, Tony's was worse. But bad.

It was bad. Scariest moment of your life um when my mom found out i had forged her signatures on some things that was boy that was a long and awkward car ride home i remember um I remember in eighth grade, I had gone to, so I went to, my life's been a complete mess. I went to, let's see, one, two, three different elementary schools. I went to three different middle schools, and I went to two different high schools. And the third of the middle schools that I had attended was a private school. The only year in my life I ever went to private school. And my mom got divorced the next year, so it was like this whole thing.

But I remember, you know, I did well in high school eventually, but there was one semester in eighth grade where I did not. And I had another student sign, like, it wasn't the report. It wasn't the final report card. It was, like, the halfway through mark kind of thing. And you have to show your grades to your parents. You have to sign off. And it was, like, two classes.

I was just, like, kind of just totally gaffing off. And I had someone else sign it. And she was, the teacher was none the wiser. And then, like, fast forward, like, six months, maybe close to the end of the year even, there was a P wiser. And then like fast forward, like six months, maybe close to the end of the year, even there was a PTA meeting and my mom went, it was supposed to be just totally routine. Well, somehow they got to talking and it came up that like somehow, you know, my mom didn't know that earlier in the year I'd had like some bad grades. I had worked it all out by this point anyway. And that I had forged her signature.

And my teacher at the time had kept the copies of that interim report and then showed my mom. And my mom had a very unique signature. And the guy who signed it, the teacher is not going to know because how could they possibly know what my mom's signature looks like? So she didn't realize it. But when they showed it to my mom, she obviously recognized, like, I've never seen this and that's not my signature. And I'll never forget, I was waiting in the car like a dumbass being like, yo, what's taking my mom so long? And I'll never forget, she got in the car, didn't say a word, and then took copies of the old interim report that I had forged her signature on and just put them on my lap just like that, didn't say anything,

and pulled out of the drive, the school's parking lot, basically, and didn't say anything for 45 minutes on the ride home. That was about the scariest 45 minutes of my life. I thought she was going to beat the absolute. I thought I was about to get that Shane Carwin versus Brock Lesnar ground and pound boy. I thought I was about to get worked over. My mom was a code of Hammurabi type, man. I'm not going to hit my daughter. I don't really believe in spanking. I don't think the evidence really suggests it works and it does a lot of problems. It causes a lot of problems. My mom did not share that attitude.

She came from Beirut, Lebanon, ladies and gentlemen, and she was a strong advocate of corporal punishment. And I think I actually did get absolutely demolished on the way home, but once I got home, but not nearly as bad as I thought I was going to get. So that was bad. Been in a couple car accidents that were a little bit unnerving, you know. But that 45 minutes of just total silence, and you knew when you got home it was going to be a death sentence. That's a long 45, man. That's a long 45, man. That's a long 45.

You know, it's funny. You notice I don't bring up, like, I've had knives pulled on me a couple times. For some reason, I don't view those as scary. Well, I mean, okay, they're scary. But like when I think about what internally caused me dread, those don't. 45 minutes of my mom's silence was infinitely more frightening than a couple times people pulling knives on me. I even had a gun pulled on me one time.

Well, me and three other guys. That was scary. Okay, maybe I'll add that one to the list. They start pulling the firearms out and you're, you know. Dude, this was one time. This didn't involve me. Maybe I've told a story before. I was getting lunch with my wife one time, maybe eight or nine years ago, something like that.

And it was on K Street, close to Foggy Bottom, not too close to like K and 20th, somewhere around there. And northwest in the city. If you guys know, if anybody here knows what that means. It's a nice business area. You know. Banks. And law firms. And steak houses.

And that kind of thing. And. This dude. Hit. Hit this black guy. And. I bring this up. Because they.

Immediately made it racial. Between them. And the other guy was white. But not quite. You could tell. Something was off about him. And. Fuck. So. white but not quite you could tell something was off about him and uh fuck so they start they start jawing and then they start punching each other and um i think the guy based on his accent was

like turkish or something and he took the black guy and he was much bigger than him he took him and then like he threw him to the ground and tried to go back to his car, just to like, well, maybe flee the scene of an accident. I don't really know what he was trying to do, but he wasn't, he threw the guy away, and it looked like he was trying to like,

get away from it, sort of. Again, leaving the scene of a fucking, or maybe he wasn't, maybe he was doing something else, I don't know. What I do know is,

the other guy got up, and I remember I was watching this being like, he didn't immediately get up, and go to the other dude. Like he's gonna get over there like try to open the door like punch him through the door or something like that but no that's not what happened he went to the he went behind and went to his own trunk and popped the trunk and I I'll never forget I took my wife by the collar like I was a bouncer chucking her out of the bar. And there was like this, there was like this, these two half walls and there was a set of stairs between them. And I threw her and me behind this wall because I thought for sure, for sure, he was about to have a moment where it was bone. It was about to have a bone crusher moment. Outside of the club and you

think I'm a punk, right? So I go get my loaded tech nine, that's off in the trunk. I thought it was about to be one of those moments. And maybe it was, but this was the funny part. Then the dude in the front car gets out and now he's jawing. He's like, oh, you want to go to your trunk? Go to your trunk. go to your trunk? Go to your trunk. Go to your trunk. Go to your trunk. Like, he's just egging him on, egging him on, egging him on. And the guy cracked it open and lifted it, didn't look down, didn't grab anything,

then just shut it, got back in the car and drove off. That was a frightening moment. I was like, I'm about to watch somebody just get bucked in broad daylight in a nice part of town. But, it didn't happen. Dude, some of these guys,

I told you guys about the taxi driver. I won't tell the whole story, but when the guy was banging on the thing and he looked up at my taxi driver, hey, don't fuck with me, motherfucker. I'm third world, you know, some of those guys who come from those parts of the world man they're not about your bone crusher games or your threats

alright Brian Shaw has placed first, second or third in 10 of the last 13 world strongest man competitions is he one of America's greatest athletes? Yes, and he got second this time. And, you know, Brian Shaw is older.

I think he's like 36 or so, something like that. He's won World's Strongest Man four times. He's looking for his fifth. Fifth would tie him, I believe, with Pudzianowski, who, by the way, has fought him a bunch of times, but, you know, he was a Polish strongman. And it was him and Tom Stoltman down to the last event, the Atlas Stones. Whoever won Atlas Stones won the whole thing. And he beat Brian Shaw. But for Brian to be this competitive, this long, this consistently a high achiever, many bronzes and many silvers,

along the way to many golds as well. Dude, he is a perennially consistently excellent athlete, man. He is just always a high level performer. I really thought this year might've been his year, especially when Novikov didn't make the top 10. I was shocked to see that. There was a couple of like bigger names who did not make the top 10. It was a bunch, the Stoltman, I don't know if both Stoltman brothers made it, obviously Tom made it, but it was a, it was a slightly, I won't say underwhelming field, but a lot of new names. A lot of new names. Except for the OG himself, Brian Shaw, and he was down to the last event.

But you know what? Tom Stoltman didn't make it close. He won that event fair and square, and God bless him. He's a hell of a competitor, and it was his time. It was his time to win. So I do want to see Brian Shaw get that fifth. I really would like to see him get that fifth, especially because he's come so close and he's had to eat disappointment a lot. When he was

dominating and he was on, they couldn't touch him. But between Thor doing well and between Eddie Hall doing well, and then you had Martins Lisitz and you had Novakov, and I'm probably skipping somebody else. But yeah, he's a beast. He's a freaking beast. He's like 6'9", 4'20", or something. I mean, he's just a giant human. Best war of attrition that I've seen. Gotti Ward's going to be up there. I'm going to put Condit Lawler. Condit Lawler. Because both those guys are still fighting, but they're not the same anymore. And obviously you don't want to overly state the importance of one fight over many, many years of competing. But yeah, that was a big one That was a turning point in both of their careers

Illustrious ones, but a turning point just the same Can you share which are most and least popular Based on YouTube's algorithm of audience retention From UFC, other MMA, boxing, DMs From Donks, have you seen this shit? Tip to tip, fan submissions, wheel of death Well look, not everything is designed as an algorithm play Other MMA boxing DMs from donks. Have you seen this shit? Tip to tip. Fan submissions. Wheel of death. Well look.

Not everything is designed as an algorithm play. Like we don't do wheel of death. Or have you seen this shit as like. Oh this will do well later. Same with DMs from donks and everything else. So those are just show elements that by themselves. Are just designed to make the show better. Okay. If you're asking about UFC and other MMA,

there's no real competition. I mean, I hate to put it this way, but we could only talk UFC. It's not quite true. It's not quite true. Generally speaking, if we only talked UFC, the audience might not like that, or the hardcore might not like that,

and we would not be fair to other promoters or fighters who are just as good in terms of skill or you know promoters who are putting on good shows but like if we just talked UFC and nothing else I don't think we'd feel a hit in our numbers we have to adjust some things but that's how dominant a force that they are now obviously it's a little bit different when you've got a Mayweather competing or a Logan Paul

or something like that. Your routine boxing is really not going to be on par. This is not the case that it used to. Folks, this is so funny. When I was 2007, 2008, 2009, dude, boxing was way more popular than MMA, way more popular. On top of that, you had two guys at that time, Pacquiao and Mayweather, who could both themselves do two million or right at it, pay-per-view buys. Massive appeal

at the time. UFC didn't have anyone even close to that at that time. You had Brock, but even Brock couldn't really hang like that. And boxing was just way more popular than MMA. Dude, MMA is more popular than boxing now. I'm pretty confident in saying that.

What did not used to be that way. So if you're just getting into fights now and you're like, wow, MMA is more popular than boxing. Dude, in my own career lifespan, it's been the reverse. So listen, some things you cover as an algorithm play, of course. Some things you cover out of just duty to that fighter or in fairness to that promoter or whatever. But it's basically like UFC content and then everything else after that, honestly. And then big name boxing, like when a Gervonta Davis fights, we get a pull from that. Floyd or something like that. When Pacquiao fights, we'll get a pull from that.

Or Fury and Wilder. That kind of a thing. I heard about MK after Izzy Adesanya shared some clips on his IG page. I was wondering if there were any other moments in particular that boosted the show's popularity. One of the first interviews I did with Dustin Poirier on MK hit big. A lot of the dissecteds were good for that, yeah. But yeah. I mean, that's really the way to do it, right?

Is to get fighters who are famous to talk about your stuff. That's really the best way to do it, right? Is to get fighters who are famous to talk about your stuff. That's really the best way to get attention, right? You have Conor on your show or something, and then he says nice things about you, and he promotes he's going to be on your show. I mean, I'm stating something theoretical here. That will blow your show up pretty quickly. But we made a pretty...

Brian does a lot of interviews, although not many recently, if you've not noticed. But on MK itself, we don't put fighters on there like it's not what we do like we're gonna make or break based on me and him yeah we'll do a youtube play we'll do some you know we'll play the game a little bit that we have to but i think in general whether we succeed or whether we fail and so far so good it's been because of me and him like we invited a couple of fighter here's a little story for you we invited a couple of fighters to come out on friday's show and they turned us down and um we didn't miss them at all you know what i mean like i even told brian we don't need them

and brian was like at least try so i said okay i'll try and uh you know one had a scheduling conflict and then one said yes and then said no at the last minute because whatever whatever you know but like it didn't didn't hurt us at all would it have helped to have one of them there maybe a little bit maybe but you see what I mean like I wanted

a vision where there's so many of these media folks who and they're good folks but like they've just got this lamprey mentality where it's like, I've got to attach myself to these individual fighters and then use whatever trickle-down effect that they have to boost popularity.

It's like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. What's the endgame for morning combat? I don't know. I haven't thought about the end game. By the way, some of the things that we have thought about like as like being four or five years down the road have been laid at our laps here already. I don't know that we're in a position to take some of those stuff yet, but like, dude, we're doing good. I'm telling you. Internally, like what we have shown them, they're very happy with. And I think it will lead to a lot of opportunities.

But the reality is this, man. And BC and I have had a discussion about this in particular. Like, I don't want to take any job where I can't make MK what it is. Where to start at the beginning of the show, where, you know. Oh we need you to not say stuff like that. Well okay.

Well then go fuck yourself. Because I'm out. Like if you know. If any outside. MK might get. It might do well enough. In certain capacities. That other opportunities come around.

Because of it right. But I don't want to take those opportunities if what it means is that in order to take that, yes, doing the MK stuff raised my visibility and made me a leading candidate for a potential other thing I could do. But if I take that, it requires me potentially, not in every case, but in some cases it might require me to be something I'm not, and then that will then affect MK. That's what I'm not going to do. So you ask about the end game, I'm not entirely certain because I don't know exactly what's coming. All this is to say is if you build something big enough, I'm not too worried

about it. And we've got a long way before we've done that. I mean, we're not in any position to declare victory, but you know, again, steady as she goes. Colby Covington has not really developed a ground and pound game or a submission threat he uses his wrestling to drain opponents. Do you think he needs to develop one of these in order to beat Usman? Yes. Yes. If the majority of what you do is control, which that is what he does,

he has obviously volume punching on the feet and he has some ground and pound, but really what he likes to do is just hold people through a series of positions in order to get them to just sort of have to constantly answer for the speed chess that he's playing with a positional game without a whole lot of ground and pound. I mean, what was the last top, maybe the Demian-Maya fight? I guess some of the Tyron Woodley fight too. But in general, go to the Lawler fight.

There's hardly any ground and pound on that. And the submission attempts are pretty weak. But I think they're weak by design. I don't think he was trying to like, I'm going to submit this guy now. Yeah, I think to beat Usman, you're going to have to add something like that. Yeah.

Have you had any more contact with Rogan? We text now and again. On your appearance, Joe mentioned the idea of having you debate in the subject of PEDs in sport. Yeah, yeah. I've not heard anything about that. I don't know if anyone really wants to do that.

We've not talked about that. We've just talked about when we text. Hey, did you see this thing in the news or something? But no, we're not like... I don't want to undersell it and say, I don't know who the fuck Rogan is. I know who he is. I was on his podcast.

He's cool. I consider us friendly. But we're not like friends in that way. I think that would be overstating the case a little bit. Luke, do you have any insight as to why the UFC stopped doing the fight for the troops events? The cards themselves were often pretty lackluster on paper, but I remember them raising a hell of a lot of money for the Fallen Heroes Fund. That's a great question. I do not know.

And there were some good fights on there. Jorge Santiago and... Jorge Santiago and... not Tim Kennedy but the guy with the Johnny Cash tattoo who beat Husamar Pelhares Alan Belcher there's been some good fights on there how about the first

Durand to me and Amanda Nunes was a fight for the troops card what do you think of Rafael Fizaya I think he is a fucking animal do you think his exceptional striking but apparent? I think he is a fucking animal. Do you think his exceptional striking but apparent lack of wrestling will be enough to get him the gold? I don't know if his wrestling is all that bad. I do know, though, that I've had a couple conversations with his manager.

One of the few managers I have a good relationship with. And, boy, they can't get this guy fights. I think that there might also be some issues about getting him to the US, some piece of issues maybe, but you'd be surprised who's turning down fights with him. They don't want any part of that guy. Which fighter has the most liable, nervous tick or

mannerism that could get them in trouble in a fight? For example, Dustin wiping his hands on his shorts and hair. Whitaker wiping his foot on the back of his leg. Cheers from down under. You know what? Let me give a shout out to a guy who I guess I found him during the pandemic. He has coached UFC fighters before. I think before Dan Hooker ended up at CKB,

he was with this guy. And I think he mostly trains boxers. Barry Robinson. He has a page called Get Great at Boxing on Instagram. I don't know if you can see that or not. It's a little washed out because of the lighting. Sorry. Get great at boxing on Instagram. His name is Barry Robinson. I don't want to make a claim that I fully understand his views and all the different things that he teaches. I'm not making a claim about that, which it might all be great. But the one thing that he has really opened my eyes to is something that he has dubbed. It's something he has called the rhythm step. Basically, this idea is taught.

I've seen it taught in other places, but he has homed in on something that I find very interesting. It's two concepts. One is this concept, I've talked about it before, of engagement. If you and I are apart, there is a skill to be developed where I can control you, and I can control the terms under which we actually engage one another. We will have to engage each other on some point, but I can control those factors through a lot of different things, lateral movements, feints, and whatnot. But I want to make it in my mind

a concept that I'm going to control engagement. And once you do that, there's a series of skills you can build behind it so that folks understand that you can do a whole lot more to control your opposition without ever actually striking them than what happens now. The second part of that is something he has called the rhythm step,

where you'll see a lot of people physically reset their feet in the middle of a fight, and they do it all the time. In fact, it's extraordinarily widespread, and what you find is that a lot of fighters get in trouble off of a rhythm step. Now, what's kind of funny is I've actually gone to different fighters where their opponent has been attacked off of a rhythm step

where they're bringing their feet together. Like they're doing this, then they back up and they're like, okay, let me start over. And then they get kind of back into it. And it may not even be that big. It may not even be that dramatic. It may just step back a little bit,

bring their feet together a little bit and then go back. You you know just kind of like a momentary attempt to reset and then uh they get laid out for it because remember you're if if you're resetting constantly and it's easy to read because you're bringing your feet together uh you can get timed off of that you can get timed off of that and much more you can get more than just time you can get a lot of bad things can happen to you by off of that. You can get timed off of that and much more. You can get more than just timed. You can get a lot of bad things can happen to you by virtue of that. Now, a lot of times it goes undetected.

What's funnily enough is, I forget which fighter it was. I remember Barry had found a case of a fighter getting rhythm stepped and then the opponent knocked him out. God, who was that? I asked the fighter who it was. No, excuse me. I asked the fighter, did you see them do this? And they said, in real time, no.

But that something instinctively called upon them to throw the punch when they did by virtue of their repetitive motion of their action, the way in which they were able to tell in that little window they were disarmed. And so it's sort of like proof of concept to think of what Barry has talked about, which is if you can pick up on these

tendencies that it's not just one or two fighters have, dude, like most fighters rhythm step, most elite fighters rhythm step, at least a little bit. Now, if you're way far away, I guess it doesn't really, you have to ask Barry, but it doesn't seem like it's all that consequential. But a lot of times guys will do it in close quarters and they get laid the fuck out for it. And not because they're all students of Barry's game, but because they can tell that there's these little windows where people have disarmed themselves because they need some kind of mental and physical crutch to lean on to then restart the engagement process.

I missed a punch. Let me circle out. Bring my feet together a little bit. Let's restart the closing of the distance. And so if you can get closer to that, if you can force them into these rhythm steps, if you can do other things, you can get a lot going with it. Now, again, I've seen other teachers teach about not bringing your feet together, timing off of tendencies. So they've picked up pieces of what Barry has done or they got some of the underlying ideas right. But he's the first guy I've ever seen to kind of put it all together in a name and a concept better than

anyone else I've ever seen now I uh again I don't want to say that I've explained this all correctly like I'm a acolyte of Barry Robinson I'm not I'm not a trained Barry Robinson professional teacher like that I'm just telling you what I've picked up on from I think what I think I've picked up on based on the things he said but like now that you've heard me say this, go to, one more time, what is his, Get Great at Boxing? Get Great at Boxing on Instagram. Go check that out. Go check that out and then watch how often he finds folks doing shit like this and other stuff. So yes, who is the guy that Montiel, that the other Charlo brother fought? He would constantly just touch his legs. He wasn't rhythm stepping.

He would just touch his legs and then bring his hands up. Well, folks, if I know you're going to constantly touch your legs, when your hands go down and you're an elite boxer, you should be able to fucking crack that guy. So you see stuff like that. The more you begin to pay attention to it. Dude, fighting is all about patterns. At the highest level anyway.

The bar fights, no. But at the highest level, they're all about patterns. What someone does over and over and over. And you knew that from dissected or technical difficulties, whatever you want to call it. I've shown you that. Like in a five-round fight, it's something that usually someone sets up early and is just able to continue the process with over the course of time, minor adjustments here or there. It's all about patterns, and those patterns can be good or those patterns can be bad. Those patterns can be quick or they

can be short, and they can be constantly repeating or just repeating a little bit enough, but they're there. They're constantly there in one form or another. And rhythm stepping, where you're bringing your feet together to restart the engagement process as a form of reset. Dude, if a fighter really wants to hurt you for that, they can and they do. All right. With that in mind, let's call it a day on this. First things first. Like the video. Subscribe. Show tomorrow.

11 a.m. in the East. Me, BC, and you. Be there. Also, I think around 2 p.m., 1 p.m., something like that, BC and I will be hosting, digitally anyway, the Charlo vs. Castaño weigh-ins. Charlo, by the way,

trying to become the first guy at 154 to hold all four belts at the same time. Pretty big deal. All right. Thank you guys so much for watching. If you want to email me, lukethomasnews at gmail.com. And until next time. May.

I won't tell you.