MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Fighter Pay Hits All-Time Low | Aljo Responds to Dana | MK Live Chat | Ep. 445

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

On Episode 445 of Morning Kombat Luke and Brian break down Bloody Elbow's article about the UFC's 2022 Finances. Is it true fighters are making less than ever in this era? The guys also break down Aljamain Sterling's response to Dana White saying "He can't get out of his own way". The guys also answer your live chat questions before closing the show with fan submissions. (8:00) - Fighter Pay at All-time Low (43:00) - Aljo vs. Dana (61:40) - MK Live Chat (92:00) - Fan Submissions Morning Kombat is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and wherever else you listen to podcasts.     For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit:morning kombat.store   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Introducing the new McSpicy from McDonald's. It looks like a regular chicken sandwich, but it's actually a spicy chicken sandwich. McSpicy. Consider yourself warned. Limited time only at participating McDonald's in Canada. Reveille, reveille, dogs. Look at us now, tip to tip. This is our life. This is our life.

This is our passion. That's the spirit we bring to this show. I'm Luke Thomas. I'm Brian Campbell. This is Morning Combat. I'm 43 and I have allergies. Hi, everyone. It's Morning Combat.

Hello, hello, hello on this 24th day of May. Look at BC just making faces. Hey, why don't you get a shorter haircut there,ith fair why don't you do that for us in your orange subaru listening to melissa etheridge i don't want to hear it over there i don't want to hear it i don't i don't get down like that she i tried to come to her window i got denied luke okay all right yeah well you were supposed to wait by the light of the moon. That really is the issue there. Hi, everyone. Welcome.

Morning Combat, a Wednesday edition, episode 445, apparently, here on this 24th day of May 2023. Luke Thomas here from the capital of Los Altos Unidos in Washington, D.C. That gentleman over there, he is just pathetic in every way. But he's an all right guy. It's Brian Campbell. What's up, dude? Yeah, Luke, I got my summer haircut ready as a motivating factor to look in the mirror every day

and remind myself that it's skinny face, isn't it, Luke? So I've got to adjust my diet to that. And also, onlypipes.com slash Brian Campbell cameo on fire right now. So thank you to all those donks for supporting the cause. All right. Thank you very much. What did you, any birthday shout outs or what was the deal there? So many.

Sometimes I'm just answering people's personal questions about me. Sometimes I'm shouting out their mother and their father, Luke. You know, hey, whatever it takes, Luke. All right. Everybody's got a scam. You know what I'm saying? We all have scams. Hi.

So what's on the agenda today? Today's going to be a little bit different. We realize that it's a bit of a slow week in the sport. There is no, there is some boxing this weekend, but there's really not any UFC. There's really no Bellator. I don't believe there's any PFL. There's really just not a whole lot going on. So we're going to try something today.

There are a couple of news items we want to get to, but then we're going to have a bit of a Q&A live here on the air. So if you want to leave a question for us, do it right now in the chat. Mikey will highlight it, and then we'll get those over and then answer them, I think, on the air. It should go without saying, Luke, but all you live chatters, if you could suspend the traditional racism and misogyny, which normally fills that cesspool,

and direct comments and questions this way, we would appreciate that. Hey, Luke, if anything, we're interactive, if not anything else, right? Yeah, look, it's going to go more south than Luke on three margaritas. It might. It might.

I mean, it would have to be a sober situation where it could go that way. But nevertheless, it is always on the table. Thank you, JK Puffenspiff for that one. Thank you. Yeah, I've seen some hilarious YouTube names. It's like Poopy McShootfart, you know, clown69. Yeah, yeah,.geocities.com. Yeah, I know it.

I know it. Now, so today we're going to talk about this John Nash report that came out. Not all of it, but a couple of the highlighted pieces relate to how much money the UFC is making. It's just important to know there also is just more bumping heads between UFC bantamweight champion Aljamain Sterling and UFC president Dana White. We'll get to that. We will get to fan subs later, which, of course, is always available. You can send us those morningcombat at gmail.com. Or should we say the house that the Paquettes built, Luke?

Hey, we should say that. They've been wonderful contributors. You know, they have to know that we're joking on the air when we make insults, but, you know, I thought that was well understood. I don't know that it is by everyone, including by you sometimes, fuckface, but nevertheless, I tolerate you.

I think I take this show a lot less serious than you do luke just so you you sent me an angry message last week because you didn't realize i was joking i don't want to hear it oh we're so wrong we all have non-negotiables and you are out of line sir you are out of line i mean i was definitely pressing buttons i was pressing buttons i know i was i mean i was definitely pressing buttons. I was pressing buttons. I know I was. I mean, I was definitely, but you know, neither here nor there. All right. So quickly, let's go through it. Showtime is a label that pays showtime.com 30 day free trial. If you'd like it, you can keep it.

If not, you can feel free to bounce. We have a merch store, morning combat.store. Things are available there. As I mentioned, fan subs, you can do those at morning combat at gmail.com as well as for Fridays dead wrong. BC, if you are ready to get things going, I am as well. Oh, quick note at the top, if I may. Quick note.

Let's talk about this very quickly. BC, there was a report yesterday from Mike Hoppinger of ESPN stating that on July 29th, there is going to be a, as he wrote, the most anticipated fight in boxing since 2015's Pacquiao versus Mayweather or Mayweather Pacquiao rather, uh, between Errol Spence and Bud Crawford. Now let's, let's tell the audience if you can, we, no one has told us anything to our knowledge. Nothing is confirmed.

I certainly hope the report is true, but what can we say? Hey, Coppinger, stop talking about the birthing pain. Show me the baby's head, right? You know what I'm saying? Look, it's been a long road coming. By the way, I actually saw, I think it was John Nash tweet about this, and I echoed it almost like we all got so pissed off and frustrated as Spence and Crawford came together and fell apart

or should have happened but didn't that we all ready to give up on it. All we have to hear is one more time, rumor, it's about to happen, that we all go, you know, came together and fell apart or should have happened, but didn't that we already give up on it. You know, all we have to hear is one more time rumor. It's about to happen that we all go, you know what? That is the best damn boxing fight you can make over the past X amount of years. Let's go on beaten champion versus unbeaten champion for the title of best welterweight of this era. I hope Luke, I hope because, because Luke, as much as we've been shataying on my great sport over the past couple weeks due to judging and referee concerns, could you imagine a calendar year in which we go from Tank and Ryan to Haney and Loma to Spence and Crawford? Oh, by the way, Tyson Fury now wants back in on the Usyk fight to F Fulton Inouye, to Canelo maybe versus Benavidez,

to Charlo Zhu, to insert whatever fight you're hoping. This year still has the chance to be a blockbuster one. So let's hope all of these reports are true. Even though Dan Rayfield did come out with a curmudgeon retort and said, not signed yet, brother. And that's a true fact. If you want to talk about it, leave us a question in the chat. We can talk about Spence versus Crawford or anything else put a question in there mikey's

gonna find it we'll get to them when we get through these couple of topics here to kick off the show all right with that in mind pc let's go first if we can so bloody elbow had a report on their uh i guess this was on their sub stack that the UFC and the W excuse me, the WWE, we know they're going to be put together in one kind of public holding company. That company now has a name BC it's called TKO. TKO is the name of this property that they have put together. And of course to tell shareholders what's going on,

they have to file what's called eight dash K documents in these documents. They found what I would consider to be something of a treasure trove of information about how much the money the UFC is generating, how much money they're making, and then consequently, how much the fighters are making by virtue of a little bit of math. Some of those are estimates. I want to get to them. But BC, here are the three main points I want to go to. There is more to the story. I encourage you to go to Bloody Elbow to get the full details. But the three main points I want to go to. There is more to the story. I encourage you to go to Bloody Elbow to get the full details. But the three things that I wanted to point out here in this report, first things first,

UFC filings show that their revenue, their revenue is higher than ever. To wit, they made, let's see, $1.14 billion in revenue last year. This is the highest revenue the UFC has ever reported for a single calendar year it's more than the quote 1.032 billion that they made in 2021 a lot more than the 891 million they made in 2020 of course during the middle of the pandemic and of course it's way more than they made than the $609 million in revenue reported in 2015, which is the last full year they were owned by Frank and Lorenzo Fertitta. Wanted to start there, BC.

We can get to the profit here in just a minute because that's obviously a little bit more of an important story. But just to sort of set the table here, what these filings show is that the UFC is generating an amount of money that is without parallel, without, frankly, competition. Like, BC, on the boxing side, they aren't making but a fraction of this, even in revenue. The UFC has put together a money-generating operation, and I'm not exaggerating here. You're not doing a bit. The likes of which combat sports... You're not doing a bit. The likes of which combat sports... You're not doing a bit. Yeah.

The likes of which combat sports has never, ever seen. Your first reaction to these numbers is what? I'm not surprised, mother effer. No, look, I am a little bit surprised. Not surprised that the UFC is so financially successful, but not surprised that if they were this successful, and they are, and you got to give UFC and endeavor a lot of credit for the constant

business deals that they're signing that, you know, don't involve giving the fighters a percentage, but it's all about this expansion and using the ESPN deal to build more PIs and other countries and all this that we're seeing that they're not carrying the fighters interests along with that. Luke, that part is not surprising mother effort,

but if there was ever a time again, like the Francis news creates a scenario where if there was ever a time where fighter pay talk was more important, it's now, and it is, but this just puts that, that idea over the top, Luke,

the company is at like record break. And why is it better than every box promoter? Cause UFC has a, not only a Manasa sostick control of the market, as we always talk about, Luke, to be fair, using the right adjective there, but they have all this built-in control that came from the fact that the Fertittas and Dana picked this sport up off the doormat

when it wasn't even allowed on TV or pay-per-view and put all that work in to turn it in what it is today. But they still have a level of control, which just is not comparative to the pro sports market that they are now rubbing shoulders in. They have an ESPN deal. I mean, look, is it wrong at this point? When we used to say the big four, we used to mean the NBA, major league baseballball, the National Hockey League, and the National Football League. I think we all understand hockey has taken a slow burn backseat over the past two decades. You could argue that college football is right there in the big four.

But how far away is UFC right now at this moment from literally being considered a big four? This is one of those Dana projections from 10, 15 years ago that actually came true, arguably, right? Am I not wrong here, Luke? Well, I mean, it's hard to say if they're going to be part of the big four because just of the way that these other organizations are structured. So let's think about it, right? When the UFC and WWE went together to form this new company, TKO,

there was a valuation on both sides, about $9 billion plus for WWE, about 12 plus billion for UFC. Now just let's figure out where does that match up? My Washington commanders are likely going to go to the Josh Harris group for about six billion and change. Now that's going to be a record for teams in the NFL in terms of where they're sold. But what it tells you is the UFC is worth about two NFL teams teams give or take wwe maybe a couple two on the smaller end if you want to do that i mean i guess six would obviously be on the bigger end so it's hard to say that the and i realize you're asking about

nhl not nfl but just to sort of point that out like they're at a level where they're the size of like you know i would consider not two out of 32 a lot, but what could you buy in the NHL for $12 billion? Probably a fair amount, like a noteworthy, still minority, but a noteworthy chunk of the entire business. So for that reason, we can't put them on that level. I don't think they're quite as big, but for an independent entity to be this large, again, without precedent in the history of combat sports i want to add to that if i may bc so you're asking where the money might come from for revenue we'll talk about profit in a second media rights and content broadcast rights fees was the largest source 794 million in 2022 up 26 million from 2021 live event revenues totaled 126 million last year up from 106 million in 2021 so

they added 20 million their sponsorships have risen uh to 50 from 52 million in 2015 to 167 million in 2022 i want to ask any mma fighter or ufc fighter watching this. Did your sponsorship revenue triple in the last three years? Because it tripled for UFC. Did yours triple? Something to ask. And then lastly, consumer product licensing generated $53 million in 2022, up from $19 million in 2015. The point of me asking you that big four question and making that reference is

things have changed. Things have changed where the UFC to their credit have gotten their brand to their power. Look at what, what their brand means to endeavor. Look at how much their success allowed the purchase of WWE for this new super group here in combat sports. The whole point is Luke, the more things change in the UFC, unfortunately for the fighter, the more they not only stay the same in terms of bad percentages on the payout, but they're getting worse because the UFC is making more money, but their percentages are not changing. And why does that matter so much right now?

Because Francis Ngannou just made one of the biggest free agent moves of all time. Immediately after Nate Diaz made a monster flexing free agent move. It's a ripe time right now, Luke, in a lot of ways. Yet, guess what the immediate fallout of the Francis situation was? Even more restrictive contracts. So, you know, you could tune into MK today and be like, guys, freaking enough of this. Enough of this. Okay. shut up and enjoy the fight shut up and dribble luke shut up and enjoy the fights i just can't bro i just can't yeah with that in my mind vc that moves us to the part that i think is one of the more interesting ones of the entire thing although we'll talk about what the fighters are getting in just a second which is their profit so revenue

was 1.14 billion how much are14 billion. How much are they actually keeping? How much are they actually keeping? Listen to this. So their net income profit, this is again, everything they keep, grew from 119 million in 2015, again, the last full year that the Fertittas owned, to 177 million in 2022. So that was the year of the pandemic. Then the year after the full pandemic, 2021, they made $272 million. And then last year, they made $387 million, a margin, ready, of 30. Excuse me. I have bad allergies today. A margin of 34%.

So this is what John Nash writes. In other words, for every dollar they see in revenue, roughly one third of it ends up in profit. That is an extraordinarily high amount. We have talked about this before. This likely makes them bigger than every MMA and boxing promoter combined. And listen to this. As I mentioned, Matchroom Boxing, one of the three biggest promotional entities reported 11 million pounds last year or 14 million US dollars which of course is just a fraction of what the ufc had made but more to the point the other promotions the duopoly uh rivals of the ufc so we're talking like your pfl and your bellator here um they're i don't think either bellator or pfl make any money at all i don't think one makes any money at all they generate revenue but in terms of profit i don't think one makes any money at all. They generate revenue, but in terms

of profit, I don't think they generate a dime. So I want folks to understand something. We went from a situation where during the pandemic, they were making in pure profit, 177 million to now 387 million for this year, they're likely to be well over 400 million. The other major promotions in MMA aren't even making a profit at all. Somebody has to take a step back and be a reasonable thinking, rational adult and say, is that system where one entity makes all the money quite literally, essentially, and then the other one can't make enough money to survive in the case of Bellator, we don't know what's going to happen with them.

PFL is trying to go all their chips in the middle, all that stuff. Is that healthy? Is it healthy for someone to be making that much and for none of the other promoters to be making anything? I would humbly submit to you, it does not take a genius to look at that and go, hmm, that doesn't necessarily seem all that great for the industry. Okay. Let me counter that though, because we are in america luke and we you know

grew up in the affluent 80s and it was all about slick your hair back and you know hang out with kel brook later on and uh you know where i'm going if you were gordon gecko yeah yeah so it was all about profit success capitalism i'm here for ufc financial domination your Your boy BC all for it right We love our our our promoters Our sports leagues that we cover to be healthy For our own future You know financial security And all that But right now Luke

When there are whispers Of the idea of real Competition in the market and I say Real I don't mean like hey UFC's got to be careful this potential number two, whether it be PFL with Francis and Jake Paul and their, and their new pay-per-view division. I'm not saying, you know, coming for the top spot competing for number one. All I'm saying is I would say this is probably the most, probably the best time for MMA ever in

terms of health across the sport for, you know, four, five promotions, meaning there's real competition. There's real disruption in the news headline market about fighter treatment and all of that. Why would now not be the time if you're the UFC? Forget taking those percentages, which we used to consider to be about 18% of the year paid out to the fighter, as opposed to what, like 52 for NFL or NBA, give or take. But now we're going down as they're making more. Why would you not do the type of throw a bone things that would not only keep the fighters happier to prevent them from going, how do I follow Francis out? But to prevent guys like us who are trying to tell the truth in this

business, where a lot of times your voice is affected sometimes by your, your corporate alignment and extension, why would they not send out a press release that goes, Hey, good news. We just had the biggest financial year ever. We just raised fighter pay by 5% across the board. You're right. Why, why not only are they not doing that, but why are they going to the extreme opposite end of making it even harder contractually in a draconian way to get out of your deal, paying you even less, doing more work publicly to stomp on people that aren't playing ball in line and taking what they're given. To me, Luke, I need an answer to that question to fully understand what's happening here.

Is the answer to that question, whatever endeavor needs, an endeavor right now needs as much cash flow as possible to pay off the larger debt of these large purposes. Is that the easy answer, Luke? Why wouldn't this promotion, which is so affluent right now, take even minor steps to repair both their public image and the confidence of their own athletes make the promotion what it is? Well, in terms of what they owe for the debt that they've incurred to take on these properties, I mean, they're paying them all on the amortization schedule that they have. So, like, you're asking maybe why don't they get ahead of that and get some of that out more quickly. I mean, they were paying dividends back just two years ago to, you know, the top shareholders.

Like, they just don't have that. They're making their debt payments and they're able to enrich folks who were in a position to be enriched by virtue of the buyback. Not the buybacks, excuse me, the shareholder dividends. And so as a consequence, they just, I mean, listen, you're asking me to speculate onto their mindset. I can't do that. But I just feel like as a rational adult, if they're not making efforts to meaningfully increase fighter pay in a world where they're making just enormous, historic, unprecedented levels of money for any promoter at any point in the history of fight sports over the last 200 years,

then it must be because they don't feel that it's important. Because here's what I can tell you. I watched the UFC bend to pressure around drug testing. The UFC used to be able to... Dude, you can go back and find old scrums where Dana White was like, you know, we ran towards regulation and we believe the state commissions are, you know, the best suited to test folks. And, you know, this is a good system. It's a solid system that we have here. We believe in it.

We should do it. Something what Scott Coker would say today. And at the time, maybe he believed it, maybe he didn't. But what ended up happening was the TRT era hit, and they got a lot of bad press. And I think it wasn't just the bad press. It was what the bad press could lead to, which is additional regulation or scrutiny. So they took the initiative. I think they overreacted, but they took the initiative to then seek out the help of USADA.

So it's not to say that bad press doesn't spur them into action. Or for example, this lawsuit that they have ongoing, that itself produced for that period, 2017 to 2022, some pretty significant changes to UFC contracts for that window. Although as you indicated, we now know they have rolled back some of those protections since then. So my answer to all of this is, in a world where they're making money, why aren't they sharing more of it? I don't think that they feel like they have any reason where they have to. Their money keeps going up more and more each year. There is a lot of question about this. There is a lot of bad press, but it never really amounts to any particular change.

There is no lobbying effort in Congress because there's no bill introduced right now to get the AALIAC extended to MMA. There's zero effort around unionization. They've closed now avenues related to joining up to any potential future class action lawsuit. They have now rolled back some protections that fighters had in getting out of their contracts. Their contracts are, for at least the upper end, going to be very difficult to get out of. And again, they might make it worth Sergei Pavlovich's time to stay. They might make it worth Almeida's time to stay. There might be a few winners on that end. But the overall picture is they don't do it because

they don't feel like it's important. I don't know how else to say it. If they, if they honestly felt it was important for their business, we've seen them react. They're not reacting. It must not be a priority. Probably because their reaction is more intrusive to try to prevent like, like I'm saying, why don't they do things for PR reasons saying why don't they do things for pr reasons why don't they do things for morale reasons within their own pool of fighters because listen here's the reason why hold on a big chunk of fans the vast majority are either not aware of these issues or mostly don't care in other words it wouldn't really affect their purchasing decisions and let's just be honest the fighters are not it looks like all evidence indicates that they are not going to do anything

to meaningfully improve their situation. And so that's the reality that here we are. We always say Dana's reaction to fighter pay or this to these type of topics when he does get asked in person, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's these weird responses. Like they eat what they kill. They're just fine. You know, essentially leaning towards, you know, I pay them it's, it's these weird responses. Like they eat what they kill. They're just fine. You know, essentially leaning towards, you know, I pay them more than I announced secretly. And I want to keep it that way. Right. But I always say the only way you're going to make that,

you know, changes by obviously coming together. And Dana is almost outright telling you, go ahead, the moves on you fighters, the balls in your court, do something. But now it's like, even with, like I said, the potential competition, a free agency, all the bad PR, which I know they don't care about. They're straight up. Like, here's what I think they're ultimately saying. They know the advantages that they've built again, because the sport was dead and it's a credit to them for how much money they were willing to commit to save it. And all the great decisions they've made across the way, but they've been absurdly shrewd as business leaders. Luke, I mean, what would, is there like a military or political term that sums up the amount of control and the

heavy handedness with which they run this? instead of doing little things, like I said, to fix PR or to make fighters a little happier. So this isn't an issue. They're straight up telling everyone, we don't care. We know we have this built-in advantage and this built-in advantage is what allowed us to have this much financial success. And we are going to continue to make it harder for the fighters so that at the end of the day, it is on the fighters to do something. And we know they're the fighters to do something. And we know they're not going to join up. We know if a couple did, we would just freeze them out and throw a little bit more money on everybody to come forward to try to cross the picket line and prevent this. So it's like they're telling you straight up their intentions, Luke. They're

telling you straight up what really matters to them. To me, even in an understanding of corporate business, this is mind blowing to me. Maybe it's because we're used to successful team sports in which the athletes do have a say. They do have a union. They do have a players association. They do have a system in which they have managers or agents working for them that are actively trying to create, not conflict, but disruption to fuel the fiduciary responsibility that they have in their roles to constantly help the athlete climb even more, get more money, get more years and all that. Damn, it's tough on a UFC fighter right now when the entire system, especially the manager relationship, is built upon being more of a middleman to keep brass happy so that they don't lose their jobs. There could not be more things against the fighter

right now. And it's almost as if publicly UFC is saying, we don't care and it's on you. We're going to continue to build up more sandbags to prevent this eventual flood that they know is coming. Look, they know that, I believe they know that in this modern era, they cannot keep this up forever. This is considered, even though UFC and the sport of MMA is out of the dark ages, it is mainstream. It's on ESPN. They want to keep this dark ages way of handling fighters for as long as

they possibly can. Dude. I mean, just do the math. Just do the math. Let me ask you this. I want to ask you this key question. Is that not good business?

Is that great business in the corporate life? Well, a lot of times people talk about how, hold on a second. A lot of times you said it here too, where like you talk about how shrewd the UFC was. And I'm not here to say that they haven't been shrewd. Please, please don't walk away from today's show being like Luke Thomas says UFC's business practices over the last 15, 20 years have not been shrewd. They have been shrewd. They've been, they've been at times very effective promoters. They've been at times, um, you know, they just really were good. I remember, you know, part of the reason why

Dana's called this a vuncular title of uncle Dana was I remember when he was really just like, I mean, hammering the boards in terms of going to radio shows, sitting down with editorial boards, going out in person, handing out tickets, doing everything that they could to make a promoter or at least brand fan connection. I think that's why they do still to this day have a special bond with the fans. And I could go on much further than that. They've been forward thinking in a lot of interesting and novel ways. That is true.

And you cannot take that from them but on the other side they're they're dude people who are like don't have sympathy for the fighter they're like the guy or for their pay they're like the guy who goes to the casino and roots for the uh roots for the house yeah like that's who you are do they have structured these deals with fighters to make it impossible for free market, genuine free market competition to actually happen? I will not sue you. I will not be part of a class action lawsuit. Right.

And I'm going to extend your deal and extend your deal and extend your deal or hold you or matching rights or any number of different tools possible to make the free flow of talent, which exists much more nimbly. Devin Haney finished his three fight deal. He's off to the next one, right? And he played his situation, you know, uniquely well, but you get the idea. Canelo two fight deal, three fight deal. You, you, when you get to that level, you have that kind of fluidity. And what does that do? Devin Haney spends a little bit of time under ESPN, a little bit of time under the zone. Maybe he goes to Showtime. Who knows? Who knows where he ends up going after all this time? But you get the idea. There's a free flow of talent that promoters then bid on these services, and it changes the equation

in a dramatic way. The UFC has, again, on top of all the very commendable, no BS, they won situations, they've gone the extra mile, so to speak, to make it very difficult for anyone in the space to do business. And again, I'm going to go back to that same consideration. There is basically, in terms of the upper end of MMA, there is one fucking promoter who's actually making money. And to that point, BC, I wanted to say something. It was 387 in 2022. It's going to be over 400 million in 2023 here coming up soon bc they're not far away

from half a billion dollars annually in profit profit i just want folks to know what is the excuse gonna be when they have take-home pay after all the expenses all the athlete expenses all the live event expenses all the running fight, all the live event expenses, all the running fight pass, all the you name it. Everything is paid for and they still have 500 million sitting there to take home. What is the argument that not only could fighter pay meaningfully go up, but that guy sitting out because they want more aren't fair to do it? What would be the fucking argument at that point? That's why I say there's an unanswered question here. Is it because all this money is owed to Endeavor to pay off their debts or not?

Because look, the question I was trying to ask you before is ultimately, you said they're going heavy handed methods to, you know, to even further eliminate their own athletes' rights. I mean, they are publicly lobbying against their own athletes, you know, leverage and ability to do that. So is that just great business? It's cutthroat and heavy handed, but is that just great corporate business? And we should all stand back and go, look, you know, they did the work to save this sport, this brand to make it work. And at the

end of the day, it's on the fighter. So media shut the frick up and let's get back to enjoying Saturday night fights. Seriously. is this great business, Luke? Or does morality not belong in corporate life? I'm asking sincerely. You get the world that you can create. But here's what I would say, right? I mean, you're asking, is what the UFC is doing legal? Yeah.

Like, it's above board. I mean, I guess someone could try to challenge it in court, but it would have to go through that process. Doesn't seem like anyone's going to do that. And nothing what they're doing is not within regulatory compliance. So can they do it? Sure. Are they going to get away with it? Yep. They already are. Like, that's the situation. But that by itself doesn't prove it shrewd and doesn't prove it valuable. And then the question is, you know, is it good business? Well, yeah, it's good business for UFC. The question is, is it good business for MMA? I want to point to something. So for example,

there are certain states, this is a very different example. And I'm just trying to point out and make it very clear. There are certain States where people try to spy on the agricultural practices of big meat producers like Tyson's and whatnot. And to show that there are, hold on, let me finish to show that there are animal abuses happening at scale, and not just that, water damage to the water systems in terms of pollution, and any number of issues related to how farming is supposed to look. And there's something called ag-gag laws, where various states have stopped people from reporting on what would be considered crimes, but they make the act of discovery of those things illegal. That's legal.

That's above board, at least in those states where that has been practiced. Is it moral? Is it good for the business? Is it good for the animals? Is it good for human society? Are utterly different questions than whether or not it is good for the major poultry producers of the world.

So to point out like, is it good business for who, for who is the question? For UFC? Yeah, it's great. It's great. For everyone else, I think it's a matter of debate. Last thing on this, BC, and we'll move along to get more contentious issues, I suppose. I got one more thing to talk about on this when you're ready, Luke.

Well, I just want to talk about what share the fighters are getting, if I may. So I want to be clear about something. This is an estimate. This is an estimate, but here's where the estimation comes from. They estimated total compensation for fighters in 2021 based on Endeavor CEO's statement as follows on a earnings call. He said the following, Lubin disclosed that fighter pay had increased 26% CAGR. For folks who don't know CAGR compound compound annual growth rate. Essentially how much did you make on an investment yearly for,

for a certain amount of time, right? That's what, that's what, that's what that is essentially measuring at that point. So in 2005, it's gone up 26% CAGR. Okay. Well, they know what they made in fighter revenue in 2005. It was 4.3. So they can just do the math. So for 2021, it put them at 178.8 million for the fighter costs that year. If that is accurate, John Nash writes, then deducting 32.8 million, because that's how much less their costs came relative to last year. This was in their filings. This is where this math comes from. That would make athlete compensation in 2022 $146 million or 13% of total revenue. Now, a lot of that is explained by Conor McGregor not fighting,

but even that wouldn't be the fullest one. A lot of their costs have been slashed on the other side of facilitating this. BC, we're getting to a point where they're near half a billion dollars in profit with 13% annualized fighter costs off of the overall revenue. I don't understand why this is a difficult conversation for folks to have. The math makes it so clear for you to understand that the industry is stacked against the fighters quite plainly. I mean, seriously, dial in MMAI on YouTube, and that's MMA, the letter I. Watch that lengthy manager video and see how backwards this system actually is,

that the people in place that are supposed to represent the fighters are essentially working for the promoter, but that's a separate thing. My final point or question is this loop. We have to ask ourselves like, what's our responsibility to hear this news. If you're a media member and you've got a heart and you care about these athletes that we interview and criticize and praise all the time, I think, you know, what we feel like our role is, at the very least, to just bring it to the forefront, whether you, the viewer, have heard too much about Francis

and this stuff or not, that's our responsibility. If you're a fighter, what's your responsibility? You either keep accepting it, right, in signing, because there's so much against you, or you figure out what to do about it. But I want to ask about the fan. Because, look, if business was as usual right now, meaning what's,

what do we always say about the UFC, particularly in comparison with boxing, dude, you get what you pay for. You know what I mean? Like you get great action. A lot of times these early prelims are great, right?

Like you get what you pay for. They make the fights that you want to see the in arena experience, even though they're gouging up tickets is still incredible. You get what you pay for because they have incredible control. But yet right now, May 24th, 2023, we're talking about that. They're fresh off an absurdly record-breaking year. So I get to some fans. It's sort of like, look, if the fighters aren't smart enough to do something about it, then hey, BC and LT, shut up. I'm a consumer. I love my UFC.

I'm getting what I pay for. But Luke, right now, are they? Haven't we just gone through three, four months of unnaturally watered down matchmaking per UFC's normal standards? So you're telling me coming off a record year, we have week to week routine, head scratching, max making discussions going, wait, why are you making Nunes Pena three again? And it's a pay-per-view main event. Why are you doing all this across the board? You're making this record money. It's a separate argument to say this record money should be going to the fighters, but what about to the consumers who are now getting to some degree a watered down product to what they're used to, yet ticket prices are going through the roof.

There's no slowdown on the amount of events. And you can make an argument that because of how successful the ESPN deal is, which we always make that argument for UFC, that they're no longer in the pay-per-view business. They're in the content, you know, fill what's asked of them business to get that 700 something million per year that you talked about. They do feel asleep at the wheel right now. You and I this morning went on UFC.com. The entire front banner, the main story on the website that hits you is a preview of PowerSnap 2. Then there's a pop-up ad that jumps out on the screen

that you have to X out of. That is what an advertisement for powerslap 2 then you go and stop the show and go on the website right now then you go down the page a little bit more and there's like a new section the first three of four items there's a mcgregor item and then there's three items about powerslap and below that is another power slap advertisement luke what do you say about the consumer right now because it's one thing to be a media member with a heavy heart it's one thing to be a fighter and go yeah you're right we do deserve more are the fans really getting served what they are owed or used to if there's you know whatever that gray area lays out there when we're talking

about constant watered-down matchups, head-scratching decisions, and oh, by the way, they won't stop fucking shoving power slap down your arsehole, Luke. What's going on to the consumer right now coming off of this record-breaking year? Yeah, I mean, I think you're right, right? It's one thing to build a schedule based on what you have and what you can make, which means sometimes it might be booming

and sometimes it might not be, but it generally follows what the available talent is. The UFC's model doesn't do that. The UFC's model says, we have trains leaving the station at these times. We're going to build them for the various reasons the best we can, and then they're just out. They're just going to go because what they've done

is they've managed through their media rights deal, as I mentioned, $800 million in 2022. That $800 million is contracted guaranteed revenue if they just meet their quota for content now of course it's not just all fight nights some of those have to be pay-per-views blah blah blah they have to go to certain parts of the world to get more money you get the idea but it's just a content schedule it's just delivering content as much as possible in in that space the questions are the fans being served well on the one hand yes right i mean like some of these cards are good. Some of these fights are great. They are,

they do have the overwhelming vast majority of the world's best fighters. And so for that reason, the, the, they're going to get the vast majority of the attention on top of it. You know, fans don't really have a great alternative. One gets pretty close because it's a little bit different. You know, PFL, you might have a couple of guys you like their bell towards definitely got some interesting things going, but none of those are a genuine alternative. Again, none of them even make money. None of them even fucking make money. The only one that even makes money truly revenue, or I should say profit is the UFC. And so if you don't really have an alternative and they've got most of the best stuff, you're just going to stick with what you have. I do think, though, that's a very short-term way of looking at it. Long-term, if they keep this up where you see, not what I'm saying, but you just see the fan dissatisfaction in terms of the complaints about the quality of the cards, if they keep that up over time, they will erode the fan base. That will take some time. It's not immediate. But this is another thing working against the fighters.

Fighters will be like, oh, well, you know, the UFC is just kind of mailing it in. Maybe there will be a pushback and they'll pay us to do more fights. But that doesn't really work that way. That could take a long time. They don't have time to wait out that long. We're talking like 5 to 10, 15 years where even something like that would be noticed. So I do think that long term they could not keep getting away with this and keep the same level of business um but as long as they're on this model for now where they have deliver x amount of content collect on contracted guaranteed

worldwide media right revenues it's just going to be what it's going they're too powerful they have too much say in the market for anything to upend it other than undercutting their own connection with their fan base. And that would take some time and some real decline. They're willing to try it, Luke. They're willing to try it. We'll see how this plays out. This is why guys

like us are embracing the idea, I think, of competition, right? You want competition. You want to see... You do, for many reasons. You want to see competition, right? You want competition. You want to see, you do for many reasons. You want to see competition, right? Dude, you're just going to get more. If I mean, you know, all these people who are like supporting, I've said it before, who like to support UFC doing anything,

not just like UFC doing good things, but like anything UFC does is by definition good. Cause UFC did it. It was very circular logic. These are all the people who put in their bios that they're free thinkers and shit like that. I mean, they're the biggest lemmings on fucking earth. All of them, every one of them is the biggest lemmings. It's not about hurting UFC. It's about what kind of industry are consumers best served in. Show me the argument that they are best served in a marketplace where a in a in a marketplace where there

is ineffective or basically non-existent competition that's just fucking obviously not true it's just not true so you know i don't know what to say at this point to convince people i think it's important to keep them abreast of these numbers and so everyone knows it but it's just an absurd there's just no good argument for the dodge other than I like what they're doing and fuck everybody else as a consequence. You just have to say that's what Dana has said at this point. Like, it's honestly, he's telling the truth. Like, it's what we're going to do. Fuck off.

Like, that's what he said. I love when people are like, oh, yeah, BC, I don't see you complaining that that boxing card that was on TV last week had two fighters off TV making only 7,000 each for that for that fight okay good good comeback you're right I should have I should have been uh I should have been publicly parading against that yeah that's it that's a apples to apples comparison right there thank you very much yeah it's ridiculous all right topic number two BC so Dana White is now having a bit of a beef with Aljamain Sterling. This is a situation where they announced that Sterling was going to be headlining UFC 292 in Boston in August opposite Sugar Sean O'Malley. a few days after by the way i'm so glad on this show we gave people a a uh what do you want to say a warning a disclaimer that we don't know if these fights are signed or not you got to wait to see if they're independently verified sure enough turned out they were not independently uh signed

and so basically aljo has got a problem because he has been kind of slammed by dana now we have uh dana responding to Aljo, but Aljo, I'm not going to read all these quotes, BC, but Aljo is pissed and he gets to his podcast and he says, quote, you put me in a situation and you make it sound as if you want me to be the

bad guy. Tell me behind closed doors. I'll play the character, but get me in on the joke, but not when you're going to keep doing this stuff, making me look like a bitch. Nah, bro,

you're not going to keep doing that to me, dog. Get the F out of here. Dana, data get out get out of here with that i've done everything ufc has asked me to do two partially torn biceps went through two training camps like that fought through them beat peter yan former champion beat tj dillashaw former champion which we all know was a weird one but still it's not his fault and then you got henry suhudo the greatest combat athlete of all time i beat this guy also with a partially torn bicep tendon. I got stem cells. Every time they've asked me to put on a fight,

I put my nuts on the table and I showed up every single time in one. At what point do I get credit from the UFC, from uncle Dana BC before you respond, Dana responded to that. I believe on a fan sided podcast. I think we have the video. Let's hit it. I didn't give him enough credit.

Well, first of all, I didn't give him enough credit. Well, first of all, I didn't hear what he said. Um, number one, number two, I'm not the one that set out the one out and said, if my body holds up when I'm promoting a fight, if you're not healthy, don't take the fight. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll have somebody else fight. We'll do somebody else for the interim title. You know what I mean? Don't say you're going to go out and fight and then start saying stuff like, what's the first thing that happened? As soon as I was at the press conference, I was asked, is Aljermaine Sterling really going to fight or not? Is that what you want the fans thinking? How is that me not giving him credit? I didn't say anything. That was a Saturday afternoon. I was home working out, minding my

own business when my phone starts blowing up and Henry Cejudo is calling me saying, I'll take the fight. I'll take the fight. I'm like, why? Is Aljo out? He's like, yeah, he's already making excuses saying that his, you know, if his body holds up and all this stuff, just give me the fight. We'll fight for the interim, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then I walk into the press conference and one of the first questions that's asked me is, is Al Jermaine still fighting? How am I not giving him credit? Ridiculous. BC, how is he not giving him credit?

I mean, probably because your default move in general is to publicly shit on your fighters at every turn. If they're asking for too much money, if they're asking for anything, I mean, look, does this feel similar or different to what, to Francis and Gano beating steep a for the heavyweight championship and then saying, look,

you know, I can come back in four months. They're like, no, come back in three or we're putting an interim title down, which is what they did. Is there a scenario when you really break down the details that we know here where where where al joe could be criticized maybe partially but at the whole point is you

announced a fight purposely in a group of announcements on the same day that francis had his moment you know to obviously jump on that and shut that down why always why always why first of all announce fights that aren't fully signed when your champion is telling you that you know i'm banged up i will fight i'll come back if i say i'm gonna fight i mean you know the extended quotes from aljo on this podcast were essentially if i say i'm gonna fight i'm gonna be there but why come out and in in frame me this way i don't know luke like shrewd business then But to me, shrewd business takes place more behind the scenes. Why is it constant public shitting on your own people?

Why, when Amanda Nunes is hospitalized at a bad weight cut, are you instantly shitting on her, you know, ahead of what was supposed to be that second Shevchenko fight and say, she'll never headline for us again? Like, why always go to that? Shouldn't you be partnering with your athletes, especially your champions rather than, you know, shitting on them and then having an excuse of them not being marketable enough. Why is this a repetitive pattern? In this case, Luke, I don't see enough here to put the blame on Aljo. And I like, by the way, this is why this is newsworthy, not to continue some beef that we have with Dana. I like that an active champion is stepping out and saying, look, enough is enough. Why do this? What does that even mean? I can't get out of my own way. I just won another big fight against another big name. And I'm telling you, I'll be back when I'm healthy. Let's figure it out.

This is probably the most frustrating to me because it's one thing to have a built-in financial structure where there's limits to how much these fighters can actually get paid based on the hurdles in front of them. But then there's always that extra hurdle, Dana getting in front of the microphone, willingly devaluing his own champions by shitting on them. And then suddenly it's a, it's a them against the promotion thing where you're almost thinking of the promotions, probably hoping they lose. So the next hungrier guy that gets paid less can come in here and do exactly

what the promotion says. Is that a, is that a wrong way of looking at this Luke? I don't think it's wrong. I just find the whole thing bizarre. It's like, let me see if I understand this. Okay. He fought in early May. That's second quarter of this year. You want him to fight in

August. That's third quarter of this year is the argument now, such as I understand it. And if I got it wrong, please, you know, correct me me but if you're saying that if you he doesn't fight in August that they're going to put an interim title in rotation which you know I know fans say it doesn't mean anything but the champs don't like it it does challenge their legitimacy because it puts pressure on them to answer for it at a bare minimum right I mean you could say that they're all invented but in these guys you got to remember these fighters live and die in their own minds. And that one floating in rotation, they can say it doesn't bother them.

100% it bothers them. And so all these things are sort of designed, it seems, to trip him up or get him out of there. I mean, I can only speculate on that end. I don't know what's in Dana White's heart or in his head. But if the argument is an interim title should be introduced if you can't fight once a quarter, then there's going to be a lot of interim titles introduced. Dude, it just doesn't seem like they... This is my guess. This is just my portion of the analysis.

My guess is they don't really want him as champion and they're trying to find a way to usher him out. And for whatever reason that could be, everyone else can make their own judgment call. But if you're telling a guy who just defended his title if he can't come back next quarter that that's worthy of introducing another champion into that weight class you have a serious problem with that guy there can be really no other argument it's not like he's had other long pronounced bouts of times off he had the one when he had the the neck surgery but of course that's fucking neck surgery where some guys don't even come back from that right that's how difficult that is a thing to get over.

And he came back and has defended his title subsequently to that. So I just want to point out, you know, he fought two times in 2022. He is capable of fighting two, maybe even three times this year if he gets really lucky. But it's just so nakedly obvious that they have a problem with the guy by virtue of what timelines are introducing for an interim title in this particular context so it's not it's not rocket science would you ever see roger goodell come out and just trashing a fighter who's in discussion about a contract and a return i know the structure is different there you have owners that ultimately report to uh to to a roger goodell and then you obviously have a players associate on top of that. So it's a whole different model, but like,

I don't know. These fighters are a major part of your brand, but you constantly make them so disposable by trying to turn the general public against them by reframing and reshaping what might actually be going on. That's why I always say, look, if they're shrewd business man,

at the end of the day and behind the scenes, the negotiation table, they're just cutthroat, which they are. I mean, how many times do you hear the reputations of Joe Silva? Like, they are. That's one thing. But you've already got every possible built-in advantage. And on top of that, you double and triple down by constantly shitting on your own people. I just, again, question how this is normal practice and or good for business you know

all it does is label certain champions tyron woodley francis now john jones at times it just sort of labels them to the public as you know not being team players or being weak or being difficult to deal and also like layabouts you just lazy guys. Do you know who's difficult to deal with at every turn? You. Dana White, Hunter Campbell, and the UFC. Like how much more uphill does the battle have to be for the fighters at this point? That's really it, Luke. That's really it, you know?

Honestly, like it just looks to me, and again, I don't know this. I don't have a chance to ever interview these guys, but it looks to me like what they're trying to do is create a core business of people in different tiers, like core business in terms of ESPN, core business in terms of who buys pay-per-view, where they're just set to expect to buy the next one, like just get the next one, the next one, the next one, the next one, and we'll just substitute in the pieces they're in, and that's good for them because that creates the fan attachment to the brand rather than the fan attachment to the individual fighters as it's reflected in brand events they're very very

different relationships they're trying to foster the that one versus the other and that's been that's been a long time thing but now they've got a business model to really put that into effect in a very dramatic way again it's do the trains leave the station on time that's the most important question for them and And as a consequence, that's why you get these kinds of responses. So there you go. Wild, wild. All right, BC.

This one's not a full topic. It's kind of a quick one here. I'll let you set this up. So Don Davis is a PFL founder. He's still an executive. He had an interesting tweet in response to Dana White. Let's show it if we can. Well, before you throw to it.

And then I want you to react to it. Yeah, go for it. Okay. So here's the deal. We all know. We all know that Saturday night Dana White was asked about the Francis situation and that led to him saying I'm not shitting on PFL. They've been they've said good things about me, but the deal doesn't make sense and he went on to break down at length why

this is a bad deal for PFL, which by the way that part of it is a fair statement or debate. Let's go back to that tweet to see what Don Davis's response was that you just saw, if you don't mind, Mikey. And Don Davis says, quote, Netflix is not even on our radar screen in terms of competition, quoting a blockbuster CEO back in 2008. And then Don runs the quote from UFC president in 2023, what PFL is doing makes no sense to me, end quote. Luke, I don't present this quote to you as a topic of discussion to try to further

an anti-Dana debate or further PFL's coming. That's not the stance I'm taking right now, believe me. I am surprised, Luke. Does this feel like the first time on a major level you have PFL who is actively in this space trying to compete for the number one there's no question they re-signed their espn deal they got jake paul they got in ghanu they're launching pay-per-view that shows you that they are trying to go to that next level but this is don davis and company publicly saying hey ufc you're gonna come if you're coming on you know come on we're fucking coming on your blockbuster we're negflix doesn't that seem like a power statement doesn't that seem like a seriously you know skits and

bits aside doesn't that seem like a slow the fuck down dude because we are coming so my question to you isn't necessarily is pfl coming we know their intentions is this putting the cart before the horse do you want the potential strong competition of number two to be this vocal how do you react to don davis's comments i think it's just a bunch of bullshit i don't really take it very seriously um blockbusters business model and then some of their business choices in terms of what was like what Netflix ultimately did was yes disrupted the business by virtue of having the capacity to do it PFL is just doing the same thing that the UFC does in practice I mean there's some differences with their season and whatnot but in practice these are roughly similar and not identical but very similar

kinds of entities. There's nothing PFL does in terms of how they conduct their business and what ways in which they engage talent that meaningfully ever disrupts what UFC has done, unless everyone of their own volition chooses to leave it, which we know is, again, highly unlikely to happen. So the comparison is just utterly nonsensical. The way in which Netflix was able to dominate the industry is simply not an avenue that is available to PFL. They're not doing anything different with the way in which they conduct business

to supersede and take over in that market share. Are they with the season? What I think they are trying to say, what they are trying to say is- No, I'm going to ask you. Are they with the regular season and playoffs? Doesn't that fulfill what you just said? No.

Dude, dude. People buy into like their business model is they're going to do seasons and it's going to be different, blah, blah, blah. It's all bullshit. It's all bullshit. It's just that, yes, if you like that, enjoy it. Not here to take it away from you. Not even saying PFL should stop.

But that's got nothing to do with what's happening here. That's just a thing that gets them nowhere. I've said this before. People are like, name five PFL should stop, but that's got nothing to do with what's happening here. That's just a thing that gets them nowhere. I've said this before. People are like, name five PFL heavyweights. Dude, that's the fucking point. That's the fucking point. They want to move away from the situation where they're a bridge to nothing, which is what they've been building all this time. They've been raising significant funds, but that business model PFL has will never turn a profit, the current one.

Maybe getting Francis and a bunch of other stars does. The only thing it signals to me is that they want to be, I think I saw someone else saying this on social media. I forget who, so please forgive me. They just want to be the Pepsi to the UFC's Coke. They want to convince someone else to come around and buy this operation that they're building with the idea that what they've got is this big business that is not as big as the number one rival, but we are pretty close to it it's a good substitute you can do something with it i think all these guys just want to build this up and then sell it i don't think there's anything more to it than that at all and the comparison from blockbuster to

netflix doesn't even make sense when you examine it okay uh do you do you though i mean look this does feel like a power statement. Do I believe they can get there right now? No, but obviously I wish them the best and I applaud going for it, going all in. If you got the money, if you got the celebrity investors, which they have go after it, make a run at it. But does this declare war true or false? Do you think UFC goes back to Disney and goes yeah we love having them on the same network I don't think so right yeah I mean there might be something to that I think you know because the UFC probably will pull any handle that they could I think you know something like that maybe

PFL is engaging in it because they see the writing on the wall with ESPN again I've said this before it's like what has PFL really gotten out of this relationship with ESPN? Like a ton of extra coverage? Not really. It hasn't changed their fortunes at all. And so maybe ESPN wants to move away from it. Yes. On that level, something could happen. I suppose that part is true, but it just in general, like I hope everyone understands that, you know, this is, uh, this is not a real statement. There, I will tell you what can change the industry. And I mean this, the force of law. That is fucking it, folks. There is no way under the current structure and given the power imbalance that someone is going to come along and out-compete UFC to take enough market share to matter.

It cannot be done. That's what it means to have a monopoly. It means it doesn't fucking matter what all the minnows in the pond do if the big fish is still sitting there and has the control that it does. They cannot wrestle away control. The only thing that can wrestle away control is the force of law backing what a union requires of the employer or Ali Act or this lawsuit requires some kind of change. That is it. That is it. So any promoter who's going out there telling you

we can compete enough to really shake up the industry, dude, you are lying to yourself and you are lying to the industry maybe strategically but you're lying you know interesting interesting i wonder if their goal long term is to get bought out and merged by the ufc yeah they want to get bought out by somebody else i mean they want to get bought out you know and that's this thing about like going to getting middle eastern money is definitely true um you know i was exchanging some texts this morning for sure that is true so you know i don't know i don't know how that's going to go and what it's all going to mean again it feels like the world right now is in constant flux with all this with bellator

who knows but you know this idea like we're going to take over dude like if the if the rubes believe that that's cool man but um yeah i'm not hey ufc hey ufc why don't you get a cage that has more than a community college education you know what i mean why don't you you know what i'm saying why don't you step up your game all right your cage is looking like bc right now well well that that damn smart cage just graduated from william and mary you know what i'm saying yeah the smart cage so smart it can't even tell dude you know what? I swear to God. You know that they're going to do some AI integration. Like, there are real useful AI tools out there,

and we're seeing more and more of those day to day. There's a lot of bullshit AI tools, but there's some good useful ones too. But what I've noticed every brand wants to do, whether or not their AI product is ready for this, is the new thing is every brand has some kind of ai integration have you noticed that like dude you know pfl is going to be like yo we've equipped the smart cage with motherfucking ai in this bitch it's going to be like skynet and set off nuclear fucking weapons and and st petersburg bitch i would just be happy if pfl

was willing to show leaked celebrity nudes in the cage during the fights look that'd be great like wow who ordered roast beef right you know what i mean get that goalie out of there right you know what i'm saying look wow yeah are you talking about uh a certain athlete whose nick whose initials are hs i hope luke i hope i am you know what i'm saying wow all right with that in mind let's try something new let's try something here i don't I hope Luke, I hope I am. You know what I'm saying? Wow. All right. With that in mind, let's try something new. Let's try something here. I don't know how this is going to go. Cause we're trying to keep these shows shorter, but here they go. They keep being long. Let's do a bit of a live Q and a call or live chat, Q and a,

whatever you want to call it. We'll do it for a little bit for a few minutes and see how this goes. BC, what is your hope out of this segment aside from not getting fired? Cause Mikey picks someone who's got like the n-word in their name or something i know that you and i on big issues tend tend to align more than we don't so i understand that there is another opinion out there we just spent almost an hour talking about the state of the ufc the future of the finances future of competition you know If you've got something that challenges that, if you need to roast us, bring it.

Bring it. All right? All right, Mikey. Let's hit it. Let's have an honest chat here. Let's do it. All right, from Blue Indian. How do you guys... I don't know if that's racist or not, but I'm going to read it. How do you guys see Poirier-Gaethje 2 going, and do you think the winner will be next in line for a title shot? BC, what do you think?

I think it'll be a great action fight. I don't think it'll be as good as the first, but how do I think the winner will be next in line for a title shot? BC, what do you think? I think it'll be a great action fight. I don't think it'll be as good as the first, but how do I think it going? I think we'll see. You got five rounds there. I think we'll see a stoppage. At the end of the day, I can't count Dustin Poirier out anymore

after that great performance he had against Chandler and the way he was able to dig in. If he can dig in on that level again, Luke, I kind of still on the surface, like the idea of him doing what he did the first time around, which is, you know, getting dirty, getting in the puddle with Gaethje because he kind of forces you to, but having the ability to outlast him, not only by having a great chin, but, you know, Dustin puts together off sustained offense so

well and can snuff out your attacks with with giant responses that at the end of the day he is more technical and a little bit more skilled um i mean do you see repeat here great fight but repeat right i will just say this i've been wait are not waiting but i've been wondering i think is a better way to put it like when dustin poirier's durability is going to fall off a cliff because that man has been in some rough contests and he has been surprisingly very durable so it's like if i mean he's been like not just durable he's been like durable durable like in an unusual way and so i've just kind of wondered like if that guy shows up yes gaichi is improved but i don't think gaichi is actually wearing the damage at this point as well fight to fight like i can notice

a little bit more of a decline on what he can resist and uh although it's still pretty commendable as well so i actually still feel like dustin is more skilled and uh might be more or i should say much less shopworn even though he's been in insane wars. And I love this fight, which is why bring the BMF BS. Bring it. I love it. But this is the first time Dustin will be fighting the 2.0 version of Gaethje. But, you know, this is also Gaethje a little bit longer in the tooth, even though he did have a very gutsy win to get into the spot.

Will the winner get a title shot? I think they'll be, look, the winner is going to get a huge fight. The winner could just as well fight McGregor or something like, you know, we don't know, but the winner, I think will be in line for something big, whether that's title or whether that's continuation of this BMF thing. I mean, look outside of McGregor, who we think will fight Chandler at the end of the year. Is there a scenario where you think this fight's great? And then Dana and company go, Hey, wait, we need to fill more main events. Let's keep BM Is there a scenario where you think this fight's great? And then Dana and company go, Hey, wait,

we need to fill more main events. Let's keep BMF going. Who do you think would be next in line for a BMF shot? Who I couldn't tell you. This plays into Robert Raleigh's question here of how do you guys feel about the BMF title? Should it continue to be implemented? If so,

should it be defended? Look, I'm actually, I don't have a strong i don't have a strong feeling about the bmf title one way or the other it's there or it's not there like me it's like it doesn't change anything for me if you're gonna do it and they've already done it then go all in with it uh is it does it mean anything no but the whole idea of i've always said is go back to like rashad versus rampage you don't need a title on the main event. If it's a great matchup, you don't. But that title does tell you that we expect this to be a badass brawl.

It's not necessarily going to lead either man to the title, although it could. Let's just let's just recruit great brawl. So, Luke, who could potentially be in line there? I mean, you think Jorge has fallen out of that picture as well, Luke Luke or do you think they could resuscitate Jorge again for a BMF fight he's retired right yeah but he's already hedged that and said he would come back for a big one my whole question is would you be interested in seeing the winner of this BMF fight against Jorge in a BMF fight no I don't care about that at all no okay uh trying to see what you care about I just I mean again like the reason why they have that title

is because the UFC internally feels like they need to have one for a pay-per-view. They have a schedule they have to keep. They didn't have a title fight available. So they resurrected one out of nothing to give them this leeway, which, you know, is fine. Like if people care about it, cool. I'm not hating on the fight. The fight's incredible.

So like, great. Like I'm all about it. But it doesn't change anything for me like maybe it changes something for dustin or justin in which case good for them like i'm not i'm not telling anyone else how to feel about it i i just can't come on the show and then proclaim i've got strong opinions about what they should do with the bmf though when it is quite literally just there to service the business ends of the needs to sell more pay-per-views or sometimes make the product look a certain way sometimes i have good ideas luke do you like this idea let's say justin gaethje

wins and he is the best arguably the best representation of what a bmf champion should be if we're taking this wwe belt and making it kind of actually i think dustin's a better representation having people chandler alvarez and gaeth, he's the guy. They both are, to be fair. Okay, so bite your tongue. There's a reason, though, why I say Justin and not Dustin. If Volkanovski beats Yair and decides to stay at the 1-4-5, how about Max Holloway versus the winner of that for the BMF title? Do you get down like that? Again, you keep making it for the BMF title.

I don't know how to explain it. It's like if someone said, dude, would you want to see Max Holloway fight the winner of blah, blah, blah, and then it's for the lint in your pocket. It's like, the lint in the pocket doesn't sell it to me. The fight itself is phenomenal. To answer that man's question, if they're going to have it, and it's comical, right, that they brought it back because Jorge retired, like it's comical. But if you're going to have it, then I think it should be defendable.

I think it should be a lineage. I don't think it has to be on the line for every subsequent fight to the winner. But when you have a badass all-action matchup between big names and it's not a title fight and you want it to main event or co-main event, you want to add a spice to it put it on the line consistently i think people would like it luke and i think it does play into the synergy of wwe for whatever that means this larger conglomerate now of one big company i kind of like that bullshit i'd let that in i'd let that in my house okay i'll just point out this for all of my like issues with one or i should say their management you know

doing four ounce muay thai yeah well whatever but doing four ounce muay thai is to me a much more novel idea of doing things than just throwing a fucking silver belt in there called bmf like it's not like which one is which one is inherently more interesting. Four-ounce Muay Thai is just a new category almost. Throwing a silver belt on there that we didn't even know existed because we thought it was a one-time thing because they told us explicitly over and over it was a one-time thing. What does that mean? It means whatever you want it to mean.

That's honestly what it means. All right, let's do the next one. All right, question. With Spencer versus Crawford, what do you think the biggest x factor oh good question for each of them and what is their biggest flaw that the opponent might expose thanks thank you trevor mahoney um you have to love this matchup southpaw against orthodox fighter although crawford can switch and does regularly i think when we've looked at this over the years the one thing we ultimately say is although spence is a southpaw

and although he can do it all he is to a large degree a more traditional boxer yes he like look what he did to ugas likes to get inside on you he can go to the body he can fight from distance but he wants to walk downhill against you he can i think the key to this matchup of what makes it so great along with the unbeaten records and the titles and all that is Crawford's the opposite of that to me. He's the freestyler. He's the free flower. He switches stances. Yes. He's more of a pure boxer, but man, he could be the bully and the puncher just the same. I want to see if that element, Luke, dictates where this fight goes. I know that it's dangerous to frame it that way because it feels like you're putting Spence down

by saying he's more traditional, which kind of screams he's not as adaptive or creative. But is it fair to say at the core that that would create some of the contrast between them and maybe potentially some of the advantage? Whose advantage? Potentially to Crawford because nobody freestyles in this game at the elite level arguably like him, right?

Yes, no one freestyles like Bud, I agree. Boots maybe? Boots is up there, but he's got a little bit more to prove. I think two things stand out to me right now about Crawford on the limiting side. The way BC said it is right, that just maybe the highest fight IQ in the game. I mean, he's in that discussion, right? True or false, he's in that discussion. If you have him as your profit-pound king,

no one's going to be knocking on your door with a burning steak, okay? That's right. I mean, the reality is Bud Crawford is a boxing genius, and you can't take that from him. So that's number one. Well, that's the backdrop. But the two things that limit him in my judgment, BC, or at least could be factors that limit him, is one, he's a little bit old. Now, folks have asked, is he so old that the fight is no longer interesting? No.

He has not shown that kind of decline that makes you think that he couldn't put in an all-time performance. Like Lomachenko at 35, I don't know how many times he could do what he did on Saturday night, but he did that. You know, Bud could have the fight of his life, quite honestly. He still has that level of connection to his game where he could pull it out of himself if he really needed to with a high-volume affair, if that's what his style called for that night. But he is a little bit on the older side. The other thing that kind of stands out to me, BC, and I get pushback on this for saying it,

but in general, you know, there's a lot that happened to him in his top-ranked tenure that to me was not impressive. Like not beating the right guy or not beating interesting guys or beating overmatched guys. Like, dude, what the fuck was that? A mere con fight. I realized that's not Bud's fault. Like why was he even fighting a mere con at that point?

Like the whole thing, Luke. Yeah. Well, here's the difference on the other side. Spence to me has been fighting relatively speaking in that same time, much better competition in general, not totally,

but in general, the only thing that stands out to me on the other side about Spence, BC, is how much did that car wreck fuck him up? Now, here's the thing. He looked terrifying against Ugas, but Ugas is very good, but completely different guy than Bud Crawford. And I want to say this too. Errol Spence, to me, is the most devastating body attacker in boxing today.

I mean, he will punch a fucking hole through you if you don't have the best defense in that fucking division. And Ugas's eye got shut, but he got torched to the body too. He is a bulldozer. But I wonder what that car accident did to him. Is he still the same guy so there's a couple of questions on either end you have this force of nature and spence versus this artistic genius in crawford but one guy's kind of banged up from that car accident maybe and one guy's kind of old maybe that's how i see it yeah they've both been inactive which is why

this isn't best case scenario but they're still both undefeated. They have all four of the titles and this is our generation sort of welterweight summit. Like Mayweather Pacquiao was before like Hearns versus Leonard was at a time, uh, Leonard Duran as well. But look, the whole,

the whole point is ultimately this, that, um, if there's any question, like no one has a bad chin here, but Spence has, Spence has a great chin. Yeah.

Does Crawford. I got dropped by mean machine got right back up kicked his ass stopped him got hurt by Gamboa a couple times briefly um I wonder if at the end of the day like look if Spence can duplicate the type of attack he had against against Ugas and tries to make it an action fight in a war what does that do to Crawford you can make the argument that Crawford won't be in that type of fight because he has advantages over Ugas with movement and distance control and all that, that he doesn't because he is a wizard and he can switch stances.

And oh, by the way, Crawford can dig in and fight you. But if Spence can make it more of a fight than a high level chess match, does that favor Spence? There's a lot of things to look at here. The whole point is either man can win. They're both not only greatss but i think they're teetering toward the idea of all-time greats luke that's why you got to see them against one another um let's just hope that that and i believe they will let's hope that they go after it on fight night when they do make this and i believe spence has no other gear spence has sp 1,000% going to bring the fight to him.

If there's one constant in the universe, aside from space-time getting pulled apart and stretched near the end of the bar, getting pulled into a black hole, it is Errol Spence driving forward, not like an Esau cruise, but very scientifically pushing into you and absolutely roasting the fuck out of your ribs.

Okay, next question. What do we got there, Mikey? From fuck who? Fuck you. I think that's how you say it. Fuck you. If Umar Nurmagomedov and Aljamain Sterling fought tomorrow, gun to your head, who do you think wins?

Man, that's a great question. I'd still go with Aljamain because I think people sleep on him, BC. I had my thing where I slept on him before, but I have since been like, okay, he is just, you got to give the guy credit. There's still a lot of fans who just refuse to cross that line, even though we've all been on one side of it, but it's time to cross.

But Umar is a motherfucker. Like that one could be could be tough i wonder if that's oddly a 50 50 fight we don't know i mean umar hasn't faced consistently guys on this level yet like he's about to we're about to find out how great he is san hagen hello but if you backed him would it be a bad bet i don't know you'd have to wait and see luke i'd love to see that fight next question for each who is current day mma who in current day mma is your favorite fighter all around why as a fighter and per as a person i mean we're in a sport where every other day these guys are high-fiving andrew tate i don't know if i can answer that question with a straight face can i offer a guy can i

offer dustin poirier, Luke? Yeah. Mikey just said, yeah, I bet you Luke's going to pick Dustin. I do like Dustin Poirier a lot. You've always loved him and backed him and you were right. Other people in my combat life have, I,

you know, I came around to realize that you guys were right. He's an American hero. I'll say that often in the MMA space, Luke, Randy Couture is an American hero. I think Dustin Poirier is too. And,

and I have a lot of respect for how he's handled his life and career in a lot of ways. So is he my favorite MMA fighter? Like, no, like to watch, it might be, it might be Gaethje. But I, you know, yeah, man. I mean, who wouldn't want to have Dustin Poirier's career right now,

even though he hasn't won the full championship, right? You know what? I guess the answer to that question, BC, has got to be Dustin's up there. Dustin's up there. I do think he's done a lot of good. But just in a sport where a lot of these guys are like, yeah, trans people should be shot. I mean, with just utterly retrograde caveman opinions, it's hard to get on board with them when they do that. Not so much as talents, but as people. but there are some exceptions to that rule obviously um max holloway max holloway just seems yes what uh you know what a great dad what uh i'll tell you something man

if someone is a great dad that doesn't make him a great person but if they're a great dad and a great partner to a to a spouse a woman or a man you know whatever the situation is that that's enough cross sections where it's hard to be a bag person while being a great dad and being a great husband it's actually hard to do that and i think max has got to a point where i don't know what his life is like on the inside you know i've seen little snippets here and there he seems to me a a guy who takes that part of his life seriously. And I think the results speak for themselves. I'm also going to offer Luke,

although sometimes we criticize the decisions or comments he makes that lean toward being a corporate UFC guy, which he also is Daniel Cormier as a fighter, as a man I've got, I've got monster respect for. And I always have, I think to this day, he's my favorite MMA interview because he's so honest and so real

and can be self-reflective. I'm going to throw that out there. And Luke, I also, if I always say it, and I thought the documentary on her really nailed this home. Rose Namajunas to me is an incredible, interesting person who has been through a lot in her life in and out of the cage.

And I have a lot of respect for how she thinks and navigates and what she represents you know what i mean like it's also like what are you using your platform for obviously somebody like dustin poirier with the commitment to charity and all that is you know the commitment to family we have a lot of respect for but i like for some of the things rose has stood up for too just the same fair enough all right next someone says gilbert burns a good one from that same consideration yeah i would agree i would agree uh from lone wolf what does luke think of bc's haircut i think he's ready for

lilith fair no but seriously what the fuck is going what the fuck is going on with bc's cut it looks like ray charles got him with the clippers what is wrong with it okay look i've got i've got some bedhead here, Luke, because when you work from home, showering is optional. But, I mean, I said to Kenny, I said, yo, Kenny, give me the summer cut, man. I'm willing to go shorter here. Because, Luke, what's the best way to fight the summertime? I know I have to take my shirt off at the lake.

I don't want to have fat face. It's to trim your beard down and get a tight haircut because every time you look in the mirror, you'll see what you've got to work on, Luke, all right? Turn to the side and hold it. These are confessions of a 44-year-old man. Be gentle with me, okay? Other side.

You know what? The fade's not so bad, actually. Better than the last one you had. The last fade you had was some bullshit. This one is better. $22, bro. All right? Yeah, that's about's about right now do you go to the barber college who's cutting your hair my guy kenny had sport clips luke i don't normally like places like sport clips they're very you know you never know what the quality you're getting they're very you know but you do luke for a total

of like 28 bucks if you want to add it on you do get the mvp which is the massage the face the hair wash the you know you got a lot there's a lot going there's no no one's reaching anywhere listen i'll just say this if this boxing and mma stuff doesn't work out for you you've got a great career going forward with this haircut to be a rosie o'donnell impersonator it's really okay it's not it's not doesn't make sense it's not funny it's disrespectful in a lot of ways but uh i think you you know, this is Luke, are we getting closer? Because look, you and I may have bottomed out of our washiness. If you go back and look at documentary number three, the Bellator one,

the Puerto Rico one, like we may have hit our limits of fatness and just not caring about ourselves. And my skin has different colors jumping out. I might be jaundiced. don't know would you say that right now and yes brian i see your comment there i'm a hip middle-aged guy in a reggaeton club yeah yeah i haven't lost all my money to crypto but look this haircut gets me closer to being prime bc i don't mean 25 year old single got it together for the first time prime bc i mean what's the prime dad husband mid-40s version i can be i think this

haircut is a step closer to that bro all right you should have showered that's true that is true you should have showered all right next uh how are y'all originally selected and paired together for the show what's the origin story we actually have slightly different answers for this i mean in the end it's kind of the same but it's a little bit different um i can only tell you jeffrey kinsey thank you for that yes thank you i can only tell you my answer which was i was in negotiations with vox to do a different show than mma hour i was never going to do that one again it was like i to do that. And so I was in negotiations for a different show. And then I had this fortuitous meeting with Showtime, and they swooped in quite literally at the last minute.

Didn't you run on the subway? You ran into an executive at Showtime who I had previously told, like, hey, you should probably look at Luke Thomas if you're looking to expand into different things, right? So it was so funny. You had told him him that I didn't know you had told him that but you got to remember when BC and I were doing the MMA beat together he had already had a relationship with Showtime developed before that I really did not it was mostly on BC's end that he had had done some boxing work for them in fact you could see him I think his pinned clip I think

your pinned clip on Twitter to this day is doing one of the weigh-ins for a Wilder fight with Mauro and then Paulie Malignaggi at the time. Anyway, so I think it was Brendan Schaub who kind of, again, from my perspective, was like, hey, let me hook you up with this guy, our boss. I won't say his name. And then that fucking day, I ran into him on the New York city

subway. We were in the same car, like two feet from each other. We're like, are we, we did that Spider-Man meme where it's like, are you the guy? And I'm the guy. And then we talked and we set up a conversation and the conversation led to what you're looking at today. I remember when they came with like a verbal offer, I calledc and i was like dude they want to do this like dude i was in a cab i was in a cab in midtown and you were like bc i'm not going to tell you business-wise what decision to make or how to live your life but you're like have you signed because you're forgetting the part where we were going to do a show similar to this but on vox yeah that was the show we were negotiating with vox yeah and you were like before you sign with vox they're gonna call you from showtime take the call and listen to them

that's all you said yeah and then like you know who's gonna give us the best offer showtime by far uh gave us the best offer and uh so that's it like they came in at the end and rolled out the red carpet. And BC already had a relationship. I already had a relationship with BC through MMA beat. I knew we had good chemistry. He knew we had good chemistry. Yeah.

So I knew it, Luke. Well, I didn't know what the first episode of MMA beat 200 when I came on, because I thought you hated me. But Chuck afterwards was like, no, no, no. It was great, man. And I'm like, no, Luke's a grunt. He's just angry. But Luke, the difference in our origin story is you shared to me early on when I joined

the MMA beat that like, look, I inherited this from Ariel. It's great, but it's not the best use of my skills. I kind of want to do something a little bit different because it was already in place in MMA fighting. And I pitched to you. I said, you know what you probably need luke you probably need a a funny partner to do almost like a pti of mma i don't know if you remember this but i pitched to you you and shop i said you need somebody like brendan shop i don't remember that actually but secretly i was also thinking man you know if i could get better and bigger in this place, it'd be great if it was me.

But I wasn't pitching it because I look, you had just taken Ariel's chair. This is, you know, a big deal. I'm not I wasn't established in MMA, even though I'd been working in there for seven, eight years on a high level. And look at ultimately you came back about two months later and were like, BC, I got an idea. What about if you and me just do a two-man show and so you know i was like yeah that's that's exactly what i'm talking about dude okay luke so you know they they went i went from you and job to you and me in my mind well i don't think the shop one was ever real because he's he's on the west coast i'm on the east coast yeah well it just doesn't make any

sense you and i were at least relatively in the same area we could we could meet at the vox offices you know basically once a week to do that i was like okay there's a thing we can put together here you know all right look in hindsight in hindsight did you have about us as a duo in hindsight did you have fears misgivings concerns were you, let's roll the balls out and see what happens? You know, I honestly had, I mean, I had some concerns about what all the big switch would be. Like I was, I was elated to no longer be working at Vox. That was a giant relief. But having to make boxing a bigger priority when I had shelved it for years was a concern. Working with a new person, just you and me, was a concern.

There was just a lot that I was concerned about in terms of the switching. I wasn't concerned that we could deliver an entertaining product. I was never really concerned with that. And to this day, I'm not. What about the MMA space would accept me, Luke? What about that? Yeah, but like... They still have it.

They still have it. They still have it, but like, you know, I get taunted for my boxing takes all the time too. Like, it's a work in progress. I have to be, you know, I know that I have to pay my dues and I haven't paid them enough and I get that completely.

So I knew that there was going to be work for me. And so for those reasons, I had some trepidation. But not in terms of the camera being on and us doing well, no. Yeah. And us going to Showtime made a lot more sense too because I was full-time with CBS, both under now the Paramount brand than ViacomCBS. So it made a lot of sense.

And I do have a question sometimes of like what would it have been like if we had if you hadn't had that fortuitous meeting if we had signed with vox um we would have been mma only we probably still would have built a huge audience but you know you know you never know if it would have gone the same way like we wouldn't have a documentary series i'll tell you that it would not have gone the same way it would not we would just would not have had the same level of institutional support that we've had. I can just say that very, very confidently. All right.

Next. Does Usman versus Hamza get done and does wrestling cancel it out as a standup fight? Who do you guys have in that matchup? BC. Nice haircut. You handsome son of a bitch. Thank you. Thank you very much, sir.

Thank you. My DM. I don't think the wrestling fully canc much, sir. Thank you. My DMs are open. I don't think the wrestling fully cancels itself out. I think they both wrestle a little bit. You're talking about Usman Hamzat at what weight? 185. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of we have to wait and see to see how Usman looks at that weight,

but fighting another blown-up-ish welterweight maybe, but that's probably disrespectful because Hamzat's probably going to be an instant title contender. I want to see that fight look by the way Hamza did put out a video that he said he's coming back and he's going to fight in Abu Dhabi in October and that it's that the UFC is talking about maybe Usman damn I love that fight damn I do all right um I love the fight too I hope it happens I think you get a mix I think you get a mix like the Gilbert fight I think you get a mix. I think you get a mix. Like the Gilbert fight. I think you get a... Gilbert's a little bit different

because he's much more of a submission specialist, but in terms of the apportionment of that, I think you're going to get a mix. Maybe a little bit less striking than you got with Gilbert, but something on the order of that, I think. Won't Usman get into trouble trying to strike exclusively with Hamzat or no? Not necessarily. Not necessarily. Hamzat or no? Not necessarily.

Not necessarily. Hamzat takes risks, man. That's the part, too. It's like, remember, Hamzat sometimes can fight very, very smart. He is very talented. But sometimes he fights well beneath his level. And that opens up opportunities, man. So think about that.

All right. Last, we'll do one more. Then we got to switch. Just timing constraints. Let's do one more then we gotta switch just timing constraints let's do one more give us a good one mikey don't be fucking us at morning combat for bc and luke if they could change three things to help fix ufc fighter pay what would they be and why um captain bc i mean the answers are not that difficult right like greater share of rev um protections for the length of contracts. Like what do you feel about the win bonus? And that if you're in a great fight, utterly eliminate it, utterly eliminate it.

Or, or do this, do this. Remember, there's still a 50 K. This is a sit in a 50 K tie them to revenue, tie them to revenue tie them to revenue so over the years it goes from being 50k to 75k 100k 200k 300k you know whatever some kind of amount like that where you just tie it like tie all that stuff to however much the ufc is making tie it some kind of buy-in where everyone eats in the same kind of growing proportions along that way. So that would be a great way, but that doesn't fix fighter pay that, you know,

I think one of the three things that could fix it is a renewed allowance to some level of sponsorship. Correct. Agreed. Dude, did you see that Octagon for that last fight night? They have absolutely your stomach. Yeah.

I'm so tired of seeing that shirtless weirdo. But more to the point, more to the point, like just the level of like V-chain, the Bert Kreischer thing on the ring post, outside the ring post, there's the DraftKings clock. Then we're back in here

and it's the Monster Energy. Then there's this other movie. Then there's some other thing that's crypto related. And every little piece, every corner has a designated spot and then they're selling even the black line to retail basically folks to just buy a spot that you can't even fucking see it's like dude they are fucking printing money off this fan base man it's insane and guess what it's not going back to the people that matter all right all right with that in mind bc let's do some fan subs all right we open up the emails to to you to the paquettes to whoever's creative here morningcombat at gmail.com for something we call fan submissions let's do it let's do it. Let's do it. You've got mail viewers. Favorite male viewers, Lucas, Saul,

the real Saul. No, not little Anthony and V. We're talking about the real Saul. He says reporting from the 2023 bluegrass pug festival. This was year two of this charity event and was bigger than last year. So hundreds of pugs and my dogs got to socialize, donated to a couple of charities to ensure the great care of these little guys. I also adopted this pit bull mixed dog a month ago. He was abandoned at a park at about four weeks old, and when the alternative was given him to a shelter filled with only pit bulls, I made him a part of our family. He fit in perfect with the pugs, and as always,

I'm sporting the MK merch because it's MK all all day luke keep the picture there mikey luke what do you think of saul's girls leg tap um i don't love it but it doesn't matter don't you dare he boss saul come on don't do that dude you gotta understand something like you do this bit where you want me to like take a dump on people's tattoos you know i i don't mind doing it for strangers but like you gotta remember something number one just put the camera on me for a second here mikey number one this is what bc just doesn't get so bc just doesn't get first of all let he who is without sin cast the first stone i've got bad tattoos in fact most of the ones i have are bad i only got a couple good ones that That's it. Number one.

Number two. Dude, BC, this is what you don't understand. They're not getting tattoos for you or for me. They're getting them for themselves. So, like, do I like that tattoo? I don't know. It's not for me. For example, I don't really like green in most cases. I don't think it actually looks good as a tattoo color

but that's very much my opinion that she's got a rose tattoo something else dude that could have like the most amazing significance for them that has nothing to do with me so like you know i don't want to bag on i don't mind judging the tattoos of assholes i can i'm happy to do that okay but like you know that tattoo could be very meaningful and you know, yeah. Is it my favorite? No, it's not my favorite, but whatever. Would you judge a tattoo on Saul's asshole though? Would you be willing to do that?

Yes. I'd be a little bit, I'd be a little bit more, you know, and, um, I, I, I would have a stronger say potentially on a situation like that. All five of my animals right now are shelter rescues. Luke, I couldn't back this anymore. Shout out to Saul and his lady for, for like that. All five of my animals right now are shelter rescues. Luke, I couldn't back this anymore. Shout out to all of mine for, for doing that. I appreciate that.

I hope that this little, little bundle of joy you picked up, uh, this pit bull mix, uh, brings you guys the same joy. Also pugs are, uh,

full of health problems, but I'm glad to see that. How dare you? How dare you? I'm a soul. And that lady with the leg cat will love that thing for all its days, Luke. That's true. There just won't be as many of them because of their health problems.

Yeah, he loves MK. That's my guy. Let's go to Gary. He says, hi, Luke and Brian. I had the pleasure of repping MK at the largest high school sprint race in the country at the 96th annual Stotesbury Cup Regatta on the Shykill River in Philly on Saturday. My son, Alex Carpentier, was in the DMV powerhouse Gonzaga College Prep High School silver medalist 1v8 man boat. Wow. Gonzaga is the WMIira champs which is dc citywide and now young uh what's the kid's name

young alex goes on to the scholastic rowing association of america national championships regatta in oakridge tennessee this weekend gary says we longtime viewers and loyal followers luke shout out to this dad right here, right? Yeah, Gonzaga is right near the Capitol. It's off North Capitol Street, as a matter of fact, which is the dividing line between Northeast and Northwest in D.C. And you can see all the kids walking there. They always leave the – it's literally like across the street, basically,

from the back end of Union Station right off there on H Street. And you'll see the kids who go there. There's a huge football field right off North Capitol. You can see it right there. And all the boys who go there have to wear their shirts tucked in with khaki pants, and they're all, like, buttoned up early morning. It's like a big powerhouse in the area for that. And, like, in Maryland, DeMatha are some of these, like, bigger programs.

Look, we tend to find a lot of washed white males around our age. Gary looks like he's got older balls than us, but he looks in shape. He's wearing the MK 1.0 merch. Shout out to that guy, right? What I know is our testicles are not impressive, but his probably sag more. They are. They're way worse. But shout out to his son, Alex, who seems to be doing well.

I was trying to get my kids on the rowing team. What do you call that, Luke? Rowing, right? What is it called? Dude, I got to tell you. to be doing well. I was trying to get my kids on the rowing team or the, what do you call that? Luke rowing, right? What is it called? Dude, I gotta tell you, I don't,

I mean, did I go to the worst fucking high schools on earth? Cause we didn't have a rowing team. Let me just be very clear about it. We didn't have a rowing team at Noggy high. Remember that? But my kids do, by the way,

my son yesterday as a freshman, Luke ran in the conference championships and track and field on the four by eight. I was real proud of him for qualifying this year. So shout out to my son, Chris and my, my man, Isaac, just the same hard, the hardest workers on the team, Luke or Campbell's. You better believe that. All right, let's go. Let's go. Let's go.

Talking about, let's go over to Todd. He says, Hey guys, I came out of retirement when I heard that MMA journalists are the standard bearers for the levels of lung damage caused by vaping. Wow. And there's a picture of a teen claiming vaping collapsed his lungs and made his insides look like that of a washed mma journalist doesn't look like a girl is that a girl i think he just has long hair i don't know uh all right but what i would say is uh do these teens they don't vape like you like i mean first first of all, I haven't vaped in a while, number one.

Okay. Number two, these teens vape like it's a toy. You know what I mean? I saw you vape like a week ago. I saw you in person vaping in Jersey City like a week ago. So don't dare you. No, I didn't have a vape. I had the weed pen, but that's not like just.

That's the same thing, right? That's smoking. I consider that smoking. Vaping is like, here's what I would consider vaping. Just pulling all the time, right? Everywhere you go. I don't do that. I don't do that.

I have strategic parts of the day where I might do it, but that's it. But these kids, these teenage morons, they just vape like there's absolutely no consequence to it in the most insane shit you would ever see. And then they blow their lungs out, and they're like, how'd this happen? It's like, well, you're a fucking Darwin Award-winning dumbass, that's how. I'd like to act like I didn't spend a lot of time

in the back of the Arby's parking lot in Waterbury, Connecticut with fresh whippets, Luke, but it happened. It was there, it happened. Let me just say something, dude. If you're doing whippets at the back of an Arby's, park the car and just walk into traffic and stay there. Just do that.

The best part is that's actually where we did it because it was right down the street from the store that sold them, Luke. So it was like, yeah, let's go to the Arby's by the dumpster. We'll just, yeah. I mean, you know, wow. You know, Luke, I regret most of my life, to be fair. Hey, let's go over to RJ. I don't think this is hard. Dude, I want to follow, you know, wow. You know, Luke, I regret most of my life, to be fair. Hey, let's go over to RJ. I don't think this is hard.

Dude, hold on a second. I want to follow up on that real quickly. Like, I know we have to move the show along, but people always ask me, like, hey, what part of your life would you go back to? And I'm like, I've hated most of it. I've found it, like, awful and embarrassing in large, large quantities. Like, I don't know, man. That means you really lived it though, right? You weren't boring.

You didn't stay home, Luke, all the time. You lived that life. I guess the answer is college, I guess, but I don't know. Because then I still have to relive my mom's death. Like, it's all terrible. No, come on, come on. We don't do that. Hey, let's go over to RJ.

He says, sup, donks. RJ here showing off the MK hat at a Wage War and Spite show. Luke, what is wage war and spite is that a band i mean there's a million metal bands that i've never heard of people think people think i have some like encyclopedic knowledge i have nothing of the sort yeah you don't i mean you said you people are still killing you for shouting out med men and touristy las vegas when you should be going down the you know outside the strip hey we go to med men because it's walkable on foot. That's why we go to med men.

If it's good enough for Bob Arum, it's good enough for, for MK. I'll tell you that. RJ says, I got a vid of one of the pits here, and I'm wondering how long BC would last in one of these. When Luke takes him to a show much love fellows. Hey, I haven't lost. Okay. Bet yet, but let's see this thing. Dude, that was pretty good.

A little bit of, I think I was like death core. That was pretty good. Yeah. I mean, you know, of favorite drawn ruzz right now of music luke's uh satan rock is not really that high up there but i'll shout out that rj that's not rj dunkel maker that's a different one but shout out to him wearing our merch in public i represent that and to answer his question i would not last 25 seconds yeah let me put let me be around a bunch of weirdos luke who are doing spinning back elbows as i as i watch somebody screaming yeah i don't i don't stay on the floor when i go to these shows i go to the upper deck i

don't i'm 43 i'm not trying to you know i'm not trying to have extra dentist bills at age 43 like no i'm not doing that shit uh let's go over to balal he says morning luke in bc this is balal pronounced bill all bill all uh here from the pnw by the way of karachi pakistan keeping up with last week's trend of unconventional mk listeners that bc wishes didn't exist here i am a muslim pakistani american about to start my fourth year of medical school listening to you old fucks all day, nearly every day. Being an immigrant and having a non-white name are two reasons why BC wishes Guantanamo would come get me. Wow. But I wanted to take this opportunity to make him hate me further by calling him out on being a total shithead about name pronunciations. I would give him a taste of his own medicine by calling him brain instead of Brian. But unfortunately, his brain is as decayed and battered as his liver, along with the rest of his decrepit existence.

I have been analyzing your personalities and I've been working on an interesting piece, which I will submit soon. Until then, I am sorry my name is not as dull as yours, Brian. If you were food, you would taste as bland as oatmeal all love though you bitter insipid understanding moldy fuck love you guys it's belaw belaw belaw be all bill all it's belaw took a shot of me here i'm not what what did i do here's his meme of luke's uh yeah i mean that's fair luke i don't think the fan subs are for you per se. I like the fan subs. All right.

All right. I don't know why I got roasted by Bill All. Luke, do I look? I mean, I've had issues with Japan, Luke, but I have repaired those. I don't think I've had issues with anybody else. I'm not out here calling him out of Sonia. All right. I'm not out here doing that, Luke.

All right. Again, it's not Red Sonia. It's Red Sonia. Not that luke all right again it's not red soin yeah it's red sonia not even sonia luke it's not even that okay but uh luke do you have any comments about uh bill all put more big booty latinas in the fan subs this is an easy win all right there you go thank you for your contribution sir and your roast let's go over to k hey kengion here or k but i wanted bc to try and pronounce my korean name again just sending in a pic of the mk polo it fits well and it looks nice you have at least one korean mk fan but that's still not going to help bc with that risen karate chop debacle rising so hey hey could K glue more shit to his fridge?

Yeah, but how's his cable management? That's the real question. Look, probably pretty good, right? It's like, dude, is you ever seen that? Like, it's always sunny in Philadelphia, like meme where the guys are trying to create a conspiracy theory on the back wall. And he's got all those papers and like everything's kind of connected to this nonsense idea. My man is just doing the same thing on his fridge, bro. Yeah, but Luke, doesn't he look good in that polo?

Doesn't he look like he works? The polo is nice. I have to say the polo is spiffy. Kate or Kangyeon, thank you for your fanhood. Thank you for representing Korean MK fans everywhere. And thank you for forgiving me about the Ryzen debacle. You know what we never have enough of

on the road? I don't think we've ever had Korean barbecue on the road, dude. No, we have not. Korean barbecue is like, living doesn't get much better than Korean barbecue. I'll just be honest about that. Korean barbecue is top of the food chain. Alright, we to do it together because i've had it before and they bring out like 50 different small cups of things that look really weird and then you try them and they're weird am

i being racist here or correct yeah yeah yeah i'm being correct yeah thank you very much all right let's go over to average joe r luke He's on fire. We're bringing these weird things like delicious beef and, you know, kimchi. I don't think it's racist to not like certain foods, Luke. No, here's the thing. You're not person racist. We should talk about this for just a second. You're not person racist. Like, there's nothing in your heart where, based on how they look, you know,

who they, what they believe in, where you're going to discriminate against them. I mean, you work with me, and we have a lot of things we're're not a part or we're a part on, but I've seen you, I've seen you interact with the staff. I've seen you interact with people on the street. Like you have a, you have a heart of gold. And I mean that, but when it comes to food, you're food racist. You know what I'm saying? Like I could never get you to go eat at a West African place. You'd just be like, Oh, I'm food racist. I'm like, you know look let's eat pakistan food you're too food racist for that no no let's put respect on my wife's name luke she took me when i the only thing i ate was like italian food and cheeseburgers and she she molded me into a a cultural man all

right thank you now you're you're a food racist is the issue uh weird shit in korea you mean like delicious food that they're known for motherfucker like yeah yeah i mean that was like 15 years ago food racist try it again maybe you're a food racist you know where do you think k kengion lives luke we should i'd love to go to korean barbecue with him or is that racist even suggest that no i bet he knows a good spot always ask the locals what they know you know what i'm saying like he probably knows uh average joe art says hi brian and luke i guess i couldn't stay away more than a week i've got two ideas for you pulling from the mk vernacular that borrow from brands and may or may not relate to the fan base of a similar age the first is a classic that i remember this guy is turning in grand slams every fucking week can we hire this guy seriously Seriously? What in the fuck?

He says the first is a classic that I remember as a kid before it was redesigned a half dozen times. Skits and Bits is the second one based on the classic 80s Chuck E. Cheese logo. Oh, dude. Wow. This pulls at a level. If you weren't around in the 80s you just won't or 90s even

like you just won't this won't mean the same thing but holy shit balls and and he says the other one luke is based on the champagne of beers miller high life because bud light won't pay me nothing right brock and should resonate with a certain section of the mk fan base that loves them some dub T beer. Not as detailed as the illustrated shirts, but different looks are fun. And if we can't get together and create a morning combat parody T, like Luke is Sub-Zero and Brian is Johnny Cage, featuring a character selection of previous MK guest hosts,

what are we even doing? We can even make a donk version of the mk dragon logo the possibilities are endless luke would you like more morning combat mortal combat that's what i meant to say before crossover would you like i want to buy the new i want to buy the new game dude uh for the pc do you know how big that game is in terms of the amount of gigs it takes up no dude the new mortal mortal kombat that they just advertised that motherfucker is a hundred gigs dude yeah i'm not a hundred gigs i'm into the new fortnite ranked mode and right now luke you know i'm ranked high in silver i mean i'm making moves against a lot of probably punk kids but you know this dad reggie's dad one is my sign-on name you talk shit to the kids on like, do you put the headset on and be like, yo,

I'm going to go. I'm not a headset guy, but sometimes the settings are off and somebody's yelling at me through the screen and I, you know, it gets weird, Luke, but, um, I would definitely, if I had like a 13 year old kid, I would definitely threaten to bang his mom the entire time we were playing. This is getting too far. Um, Luke, I'd be like, you keep, you keep getting smart mouth with me, Mr. And you know,

we got to have to get earplugs later huh we we got to do something with all these average joe r ideas for merch right maybe we can get rj back here too and just collaborate just make it all happen all right we should we should we should thank you uh to close here luke i think i've got two more from some heavy hitters here's david a you know happy right hi guys when b Brian suggested I needed to do a redemption tour following my behavior in London, I really didn't know what he was talking about. But on the recent OG RSD episode, Luke spelled out how Larry I was that night. L-A-I-R-Y. What the hell is that word, Luke? And something in my brain clicked. Much love and sincere apologies for being such an old drunk dickhead the irony is that i came to london determined to prove that i am not an international sex pest but a perfect normal family guy but at 11 a.m that day of the live show i met

up with my old friends pisshead paul and big dick tim for a couple drinks. What could possibly go wrong, I said. I thought. Redemption, though, starts here. Appy, P.S., did you boys ever drink the top French wine I gave you, or did I steal it back off of you at the end of the night? Luke, what happened to that bottle of wine that drunk-ass shit Appy gave us? I never got a bottle, so I don't know what he's talking about. No,

you did. He handed it to you, Luke. Dude, I would have taken that home by the time I got back to my room that night, because we, the show was at night. I didn't have any wine,

so I don't know what happened, but I never got it. Let's see his video here that he's referencing. Mikey, could you play the video? If I asked you to dance, would you say yes? Hello. I don't know what just happened do you do he use one of those shitty AI tools we were referencing

earlier I do appreciate the effort Do you? Did he use one of those shitty AI tools we were referencing earlier? Because that's what it looked like. I do appreciate the effort here. It looked like the fever dream of some computational fucking program. He did bring us wine. I'm trying to think. Did it end up in my room? Mikey, do you have the wine?

It did. I didn't get any. I did not get a bottle of wine. All right. Luke, do you believe him? Because we've had a lot of... Mikey does not have the wine. We had a lot of debate heading into the show there was an international scare when we talk about um interpol you know members of our staff were afraid that appy would show up and be the

drunken sex pest we all assumed he was and i did argue for his reputation luke after meeting him after seeing all of his fan subs and learning of the legend of this Cosby-esque teacher. Is he the character drunken sex pest he portrays on TV here on Morning Combat? Or is he a normal family man teacher who loves to mold the youth of tomorrow? He's normal, but I could not tell you whether or not he's housebroken. That part I couldn't tell you. Okay. Okay. All right uh let's go over to alan w he says the big beige the donk abides oh my god i never thought of myself as the

uh as the guy from uh what movie is that luke it's off the tip of my big lebowski big lebowski that's right uh the dude the dude from big lebowski um that is what is that what is that luke it's off the tip big lebowski big lebowski that's right uh the dude the dude from big lebowski um that is what is that what is that um so he's not wearing a drug rugged this one is more like a jacket or a coat what do you call that i don't know possibly in that category yeah i like that though um then he's got another one that says hey bc you're welcome here's brian's angels holy oh my god it says once upon a time they were usc champs now they work for brian wow that's the dream alan isn't it isn't it luke isn't it this is this is your kind of lady eastern european and uh they could beat the fuck out of you and you have no possible chance with them. It's also three haircuts.

You like the white ladies, dude. Let's be honest about that. You like the white ladies. Luke, I'm an equal opportunity employer in those areas. No, you like the white ladies. You like the white ladies. It's okay to have a specific area of the globe that you trend toward.

That's okay, Luke. It's fine. Hey, listen. I like what I like. You know what I'm saying like i'm not you you just deny that it's true i'm asking you to admit it that's all i married a beautiful irish lithuanian woman luke okay you're gonna have to deal with that all right all right okay yeah that's that's the truth right there uh he alan also says while i understand the propensity to go overboard with the shenanigans during room service diaries 1.0 i do hope you guys do them more often moving forward here is a thumbnail i made for you for your next rsd oh dear god wow that should be a poster in our studio

if we ever go back wow made in france 32 leaves to that these are that is so good i don't even know what to say and you know what alan's got one more for us he says while it was a fantastic chess match last saturday of haney loma i'm confident saying that haney is a placeholder with the undisputed lightweight championship 31 year old loma would have beaten Haney cleanly with that said, the heir apparent to the championship showed up in the ring after the fight. Shakur Stevenson, a photographer took a great photo with Shakur staring at Haney with a pure desire and lust to take away the gold from him. This powerful juxtaposition of Shakur's lust for the undisputed lightweight

title. That is, that is pretty good, Luke. That is pretty damn good. Yeah. These are absolutely excellent. Those are incredible.

You know, Alan W., Luke, I accidentally left him off of the nominees originally for Donk of the Year last year, and you know who fought for him? Mikey Mormile fought for Alan W. Dude, the fan subs, man. People get bitter. Like, Danger Mouse got bitter at us. You know, there's fan subs man people get bitter like danger mouse got

bitter at us i you know there's a couple other people right now who are bitter at us bitter at me maybe i don't even know but guys like we appreciate all of them we might insult them doesn't mean we don't like them actually means like we're just having fun with it and uh that's what we do like i never say anything nice about Brian on purpose, partly because it's true, but also because it's the show. That's the bit. We kill each other. That's the bit, guys. We got one more for you, Luke, from a fellow named 2Changs.

This guy's a grifter. He's the guy that's created some of the most well-known songs in Reddit history, Luke. He's got something about the smart cage. It's their calling card. It's the tournament system because it sure as hell isn't the smart cage. The smart cage didn't do this deal. Luke, you said that at three miles per hour.

You know, if the smart cage did the deal, then, you know, we would have to have some questions asked. How dare you? Smart cage is the smartest of all the cages. We're going to find out pretty soon how smart that cage really is at the negotiation table, Luke. You know what I mean? I mean, if PFL goes bust, I don't think that cage was all that smart, BC. I got to tell you.

Not that smart. You could tell me the miles per hour of that guy's ball bag swinging back and forth. It was five miles per hour. But, you know, you couldn't sweeten the pot on some of this negotiation. You know what I mean? You know, I'm guessing it wasn't really involved in the deal, so I don't really know how smart it is.

Smart cage, the smartest of all the cages. That was South Oregon bird. Oregon. Oregon. Wow. You said that at three miles an hour dude they take the most meaningless fucking numbers and then just litter the screen with them oh god gmail.com shout out to our many successful fan submission droppers this wednesday wow good shit

across the board look do you want to update people on our schedule for the rest of the holiday weekend and what they could be? Yes, we'll have content for you on Friday, and we'll have content for you on Monday. BC, you have an interview coming out today, do you not? Yes, with One Championship's Brent Stover, a fantastic chat about the One product, his transition into MMA, all that stuff.

Very good guy, Luke. I think he's, I think he would hang with us MK wise. Now he'd probably take home more women than we would due to his burgeoning country star career. But, um, you know, he's a very nice man. He is a very nice man. And of course we'll have a mailbag for you guys on Memorial day. We'll also have something for you guys on Friday as well. So the content will keep flowing. Please don't worry. And by the way, if you guys on Friday as well. So the content will keep flowing. Please don't worry. And by the way, if you want to ask a question for the mailbag, go to our YouTube community section where we have a post up there, and we've solicited questions in there.

So you go to youtube.com slash morningcombat, then click the community tab. It's right in there. You can see everything there right one ASAP, and we'll get that for you. So if you don't have family that you like hanging out with on the Memorial Day weekend, you can hang out with us. And also, if you haven't watched Room Service Diaries 2.0 with Ray Longo.

Luke, I am overwhelmed by the fan reaction because I thought Paul Craig, Arnold Allen, John Anik, Rashad Evans, I thought these recent RSDs were untouchable, impregnable, if you will. Right? Some people think this Ray Longo one's the best thing we've ever done it's very good it's very good i really had a great time doing it i could we could easily do another one i i hope at some point in the future we get a chance to do that so please go check that out it's really cool stories from a very unique man who has accomplished a lot in the sport and kept a pretty good attitude about it the whole time.

So a great guy to talk to. All right, let's move this along. So BC, Brent Stover out today, content out on Friday. I'm doing a couple of interviews privately that we'll have up either this week or around Sunday or Monday. So we're going to have content for you continuously. YouTube.com slash Morning Combat are up on the listening platform. So showtime.com, 30-day free trial.

If you'd like it, you can keep it. If not, move on. Morningcombat.store for all of your merch. Thanks to Malka. Thanks to Showtime. And, of course, Mikey Morms from CBS Sports on the ones and twos keeping us locked and loaded here. We're done for the day.

That's it. We're out of here. That's Brian Campbell. I'm Luke Thomas. Thank you guys so much for watching. Hit up the show if you want to see us or hear us. What am I saying? I'm just botching the outro. Hit up the show at morningcombat.gmail.com

to talk to the producers. We're out of here. Until next time, may all of your gains be loyal.