MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Francis Ngannou Signs with PFL | Morning Kombat Instant Reaction

Episode Date: May 16, 2023

Luke Thomas has you covered with an instant reaction to the news that Francis Ngannou is signing with the PFL. When will he fight? Who will he fight? What are the terms of the contract? Luke discusses it all. Morning Kombat is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and wherever else you listen to podcasts.     For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit:morning kombat.store   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi there. How are you doing? It's the 16th of May, 2023. It's time for some instant reactions. Well, the news broke, I guess, a couple of hours ago, a few hours ago at this point, but we want to react to it as best we could. A couple of introductions. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Morning Combats. I would say supplementary, complimentary program. My name is Luke Thomas. I'm, of course, just one half of your hosting duo. I'm in Washington, D.C. Brian Campbell is being lazy today and didn't want to contribute on his day off. Also, my day off, Brian, what do you think about that?

Okay, neither here nor there. We have a lot to get to today. So here's what we're going to talk about. I know that Francis Ngannou was going to speak later today, I believe, with Ariel Hawane on his program on MMA fighting, but the news is basically already out. New York Times broke it first. We have some already updated supplemental coverage, which I want to get to, but Francis Ngannou has signed with the PFL. That is now official. At this point, I can only discuss the details that have been made public, but they're already pretty big.view super fight division. Now the catch to that is

that won't start until mid-2024. I want to get to some of the good things about this deal and some of the bad things about this deal, but for now let me sort of state the terms. So that is the first part. He'll be fighting on pay-per-view beginning in 2024 for the PFL in what they call their super fight division. Number two, Francis will now sit as the first active fighter on what they call the PFL's Global Advisory Board, which represents the interests of other active fighters. I guess there are retired fighters on that board. He would represent the first of them who's active.

And then last but not least, and this is to be actually one of the more interesting pieces, Francis will become an equity, a minority equity owner and chairman for PFL Africa. You might recall PFL launched a sort of subsidiary brand on a more sort of regional level with PFL Europe. Dan Hardy is heading those efforts. This is going to be something similar to that with PFL Africa, where they're going to identify and sign talent ostensibly.

I think they want to start hosting events there. And then, actually, PFL said something pretty interesting related to that. Namely, they want to have what they call the Champions League of MMA, where the best in PFL Africa fight the best, I'm assuming, of what will eventually be PFL Asia, PFL Europe, and so on. And then there will be some kind of tournament a la what you see with the Champions League, of course, is the best club teams in Europe who play. All right. There's a lot to get to. So welcome. That's the big three-piece overview of it. I want to talk about each of those

deals, what it says about Francis, what it says about UFC, what it says about PFL as well, for better or for worse. And I do think there's both of those to be had here. First, let's do this. Thumbs up on the video if you're here. Thank you so much. Hit that subscribe button if you're here. Thank you so much. Let's do this part. The PFL put out a promotional asset, kind of announcing this deal with Francis rubbing elbows with essentially PFL brass and kind of this sort of like announcement video about how big it is and why it's important. Let's take a look at that from their perspective and then I want to show you what we know about this deal. Hit it Mikey. No one has ever been in this position. Heavyweight champ walks away. We don't know the end result. He could sign tomorrow for the most money

anybody's ever signed for in fighting history. Francis Ngannou is the lineal heavyweight champion of the world. And so we'll see what he does. I chose the PFR out of everyone in order to change the game of MMA. For whoever feel ready, I'm the baddest mother****** on the planet.

I'll be fighting in the pay-per-view super fight division. It has always been my goal to control my own destiny. When somebody feel respect, you get the best out of the person. The reason why I signed with the PFR is because of their willingness to develop this sport. Most importantly, in Africa, I stand for my people, for my community. I fight for them and to get something like this, to bring back home is like a huge accomplishment. Along with the PFL, now that I'm in the position to speak, I fight for those who doesn't have a voice because at the end of the day, it's fighter first. Fighter is the one doing the sport at the end of every accomplishment there's another challenge

that's how you build your own legacy All right. By the way, I like the little predator trilling that they put at the end of his things. That's actually pretty cool. But you get the idea. Hold on, let me pull this back up here. Okay. All right. So, broad overview, right?

He's going to sit on the Global Advisory Board, a minority equity owner and chairman of PFL Africa, and he's going to fight in the PFL's pay-per-view division. So here's what I want to know from you before we move forward. In the comments right now, give me a sense about how you feel about this deal. Of course, we don't know everything. In fact, there's a lot we don't know, but it's at least worth getting your sense of things.

Are you happy with this? Are you satisfied? Or are you simply saying, I don't really know enough yet. I feel strongly this way. I feel badly this way. You tell me right now, what is your sense about this deal, this arrangement, how it makes you feel as a fan? Of course, your voice is important. That's who ultimately the PFL is trying to please. So let me know what you think about this in the comments. Okay, let's go over a few extra details if we can. I've got four links here, three links up here.

I've got the press release itself. I've got an article from John Nash and Bloody Elbow, which gives some key details. And then, of course, the New York Times report that initially broke the story to begin with. If we can put that up here, Mikey, I want to show you something here. Let's go first through this one as we kill off these ads. By the way, I mean, bloody hell though, just leaning into that stuff. Okay. This is what I'm, by the way, just the ads, just the worst ads ever. Let me blow this up a little bit so you can see it. There we go. Okay. And I'm going to try and keep that out. All right. This I thought was super, super interesting.

So this is what John Nash calls some noteworthy additional features of Francis Ngannou's deal. I'm going to read you what he has. It's for only two or three fights. So at max, it's a three-fight deal. Number two, guarantees a high seven-figure purse for each fight. Three, a split of the event's net profits. So if they make something off the gate, if they make something off concessions, if they make something off whatever, he gets a check from that as well. A signing bonus or salary to serve as a brand ambassador for the PFL. So even when he's not fighting, he's either getting paid on a regular basis or he got paid up front to do that

work independent of anything else. Number five, the right to have his own sponsors in the cage. One only knows how lucrative that could be. Six, non-exclusive with regards to boxing. So he can box no problem if he wants. Seven, no champion's clause or other extensions. And then last but not least, and I think this is pretty interesting, a minimum salary, possibly as high as $1 million for his opponents. Now there's one extra detail that I want to read here very quickly that John Nash provided me saying this is what he writes. Quote, I'm going to read it out loud. It is therefore very likely that this UFC offer would have paid more over those three fights than his new PFL deal will, as the Jones fight would have potentially paid him more than $10 million once his pay-per-view bonus was added and sold as well as most people in the industry assume it would.

That is, it would have paid more as long as he fought Jones and did not lose the title during those three fights for a three fight deal, right? So we'd have to go undefeated. He would make more in that case. However, what John Nash notes is quote, what the UFC contract did not do is allow for Ngannou to box if the opportunity presented itself, nor would it allow him to cultivate his own sponsors by allowing him to promote them in the cage. It also contained a champion's clause that would have added more fights to the deal if he had retained the title. The PFL deal clearly offers more of the freedom and protections

that Ngannou has been asking for himself. Okay, so that's something I want you guys to know. Here is the, look at the website for the PFL. They've got all this, I mean, they blew it out the frame here, so to speak, to get everyone ready for this. They're calling it the most expansive and valuable athlete signing in MMA history. You guys know the other parts. We've kind of already mentioned them. This is what they say about the PFL Global Advisory Board has been established for the league to closely corroborate with the greatest athletes and minds in the sport of MMA to ensure the PFL stays focused

on its fighters' first mission combined with recruiting and developing future global champions. As part of this strategic partnership with the PFL, Ngannou will serve in a leadership role on the PFL Global Advisory Board, making him the first active fighter to serve on the board and represent fighters' interests. And of course, they go on to say something here, which I thought was kind of interesting. This, I thought was cool. PFL has an expansive plan to become the first true global league in sports with international regional leagues spanning all continents, said PFL founder leagues operating by 2026 to form the first ever Champions League of MMA to spark national pride and determine the actual best in the world via PFL sports season format of win and advance meritocracy. And then it goes on from there. This is the official site.

Same thing. There's the Doombay signing. This is the open first page here. I wonder if more information. What do you get there? Let's see. Oh, I'm not signing up for the newsletter. Yeah, no thanks. And then last but not least, here is the New York Times article, which features Francis right here in the cage, written by Emmanuel Morgan, who covers MMA and NFL for the New York Times. I've met this gentleman, he is a great reporter, a smart guy. And, um, this is sort of like, he doesn't cover a ton of MMA for the New York times. I think most

of his work by far is NFL, but if they have a combat sports reporter and they do, of course, it's this guy. So that if you don't know who he is, Emmanuel Morgan is the guy you're looking for. And, uh, there's just a couple of quotes in here that I thought was kind of interesting that I wanted to go through if we can. These past few months, Francis says, have been an interesting time to understand and see the landscape, but I'm very excited about this deal with PFL because it showed what I was expecting. They didn't just show up as a promotion looking for a fighter, but really came as a partner that sees more value in you as a person. Of course, they mentioned Jake Paul has signed with PFL as well. They mentioned Kayla Harrison a number of times in this article, which is interesting because I don't think she's long for this organization,

but we shall see. They quote Dana saying, you know, Francis wanted lesser competition. But of note, they didn't get a fresh quote from Dana. I don't know if they were UFC refused to speak or they didn't ask him, but they only had an old quote. By the way, in the New York Times, fighters earn less than 20% of total revenue talking about the UFC, which includes pay-per-view sales and other sources of cash flow

like ticket sales and sponsorships. In the NFL, where athletes have unionized, for example, players receive roughly 50% of league revenue. If you're wondering why they put this story in the New York Times, this is why. It's because they get information like this to the public, to opinion leaders. That's what they call the people who read the New York Times, whether you like it or not. They're called opinion leaders. They want to get this information out in front of them. So that's part of the reason why it got leaked to or given to the New York Times as it did. They mentioned one championship here. I want to point something out here.

Ngannou said he engaged in advanced talks with only one other promotion, the Singapore-based One Championship, though executives for Bare Knuckle Championship and Bellator said they had exploratory conversations with Ngannou. Pretty amazing that Singapore-based One Championship was ahead of BKFC and Bellator. I guess it's not surprising. We'll talk about that in just a second. And he says, you know, this was more than just a matter of financial considerations.

And then, of course, Murray from the PFL says, this is not an athlete deal. Francis is an icon of sport. Blah, blah, blah. We're in business together. Okay, I believe there's not much more. Oh, here we go. So listen to this. For the PFL Africa thing, Nganou said he saw Cameroon, Nigeria,

Senegal, and South Africa as early targets for PFL Africa with events hoping to take place in 2025. In the meantime, he said he would like to have a boxing match this year before fighting again in mixed martial arts they talk about the pay-per-view prices and blah blah blah and then last but not least he says the following when people don't understand you what you're doing obviously there's a lot of criticism but when you're confident and certain of what you're doing and where you're going and aware of achievement. You just have to be patient and welcome the time everybody sees it. Okay, that's enough, Mikey. You get the idea. This is a broad overview of the information that we have at this point. So

how do I feel about it? Again, I've asked you to give information on how you feel about it in the comments, or you can, of course, hit us up on social media. This is what I think about it. This is clearly an excellent deal for Francis. As John Nash points out, the way the pay-per-view structure and pay system works in the UFC, had he fought Jones and won, and then of course had two more fights and won them, yes, he would make more money. So in terms of the total possible amount allotted on the fight pay, it's not fair to say that the PFL contract is the most lucrative. It appears that that is not the case. However, it still is quite lucrative. It's at least comparable or at least in the same ballpark from what we know and more

to the point because he can make money off sponsorships and he's going to be having a signing bonus, potentially a salary and other mechanisms of earning event pay based on shared revenue. It's possible he could end up making a pretty comparable amount, and maybe in total when you count sponsorships and everything else, maybe even more in the end. But again, it would be roughly the same, or at least these are roughly comparable deals when it comes to that.

But of course, there's so much more involved in here. He can go now box. He doesn't have a champion's clause. He doesn't have a long-term deal. He's got an enormous amount of flexibility. Let me state this outright. A two or three fight deal that offers you that in MMA is basically unheard of. I mean, Brock's probably gotten something like that and even really not that. Not that much money plus that much flexibility plus that much, I'm going to call it front office slash corporate involvement, integration, and otherwise having a say. This contract is highly unique, frankly historic in certain ways, and for Francis, a clear home run. It would be hard to imagine.

I don't think Bellator could have given him an offer like this. Once you see now what PFL is laying out, I think it's fair to say one more time, BKFC could never have afforded him. I think one could have afforded him in certain ways, but just given what he wants to do, it looks like, I don't know if one would have been the right partner, right? So for a couple of reasons, they probably could have given him a pretty big purse.

I think that part is probably true, but if you just look at what PFL is going to do in terms of this broader international outreach, how much of that is like Francis whacking the dog, I don't really know. But this idea of we're going to PFL Europe and we're going to open up all these other markets and we're going to have PFL Africa up and running by 2025, that was never going to be on one championship's radar. And I think for those reasons, it would be a problem. Who knows what other flexible terms about your opponent getting another million dollars on top of it about, you know, again,

exclusivity and he can box and all this other stuff. It's hard to know what one would have been able to do in that space. But again, just talking about pay-per-view in the United States, PFL has certainly got its work cut out for it, but it's even that far ahead of one in this market. So that is a place that could have given him a competitive wage, but otherwise not the other things he was looking for. So this is a, for, for Francis, for Francis, this is a grand slam. This is about as good as it's going to get. This is about as good as I've ever seen it get. You're just not going to get that much money, that much say that much flexibility, all in the same deal in MMA. It's extremely unheard of. They've given him something very, very, very rare, if by itself almost

anomalous to begin with in the history of MMA. I think you probably, Connor probably makes more. I'm sure he makes more on the upside, but the question is, does he have the same kind of flexibility and whatnot? Again, even Connor's a special case, but you guys know what I mean? Does John Jones have a contract with this kind of flexibility? He does not. Even Connor doesn't have this kind of flexibility, right? So, so for Francis, I think this is clearly a home run. But I've got definitely some questions that deserve to be asked. I think in the aftermath of something like this, people like me who are like, wait a second, let's see what the deal looks like before we can even really make some comments about it.

Here we now have some information so we can. But we're not obligated to give nothing but positive press. I think there is a lot of positive press here that should be noted, but not all of it. I want to say something first, though, before I get to some of the things that give me some pause. We should have a little bit of a conversation about the PFL. Boy, they're going for it. They're going for it. I have been a skeptic of any player outside of the UFC in the current space just by virtue of how dominant the market position is for UFC. And it should be clear, as good as this deal is for Francis, and it is good, it is by no means a guarantee of success for PFL. For Francis, it depends what he really wants and really gets out of it. That's harder to say, but there are plenty of ways this doesn't go well for PFL. They are risking it big time. I'll come back to that in a second. But of all the promotions

out there right now, they're really going for it. And I've combined this news they have today with one, signing Francis. That's huge as a recruitment tool at an advertisement about what they can offer. Number two, everyone's making a big deal about Francis guaranteeing his opponents get $1 million or more, some kind of high guaranteed floor to get paid. A lot of people will be like, wow, Francis is a good guy. He might be, but that's a recruitment tool. That's a recruitment tool. That's not just saying, hey, we're going to pay Francis a lot. And then his opponents can go fuck off. It's we've got Francis. And if you fight them over here, you're probably gonna make a lot

more money than you would. I mean, you should really think about this. How many fighters in UFC history have ever gotten a paid for a single bout $1 million or more. It's gotta be an infinitesimally small amount right some have maybe accrued that over the course of two or three fights but in one fight who got a million dollar check or more it's not many people in the history of the sport it's not many um and i think there's probably a lot of heavyweight fighters who don't have much of a profile who might be looking at this and saying to themselves yeah i could make a lot more money over there than i would here um and they might like their chances of even winning or whatever, but that's

a recruitment tool is what that is. Now that may not work either, but I just want to point out something combined this news with signing Francis advertising that his opponents are going to get paid a million or more or around that. And then on on top of it this news that has kind of gone quietly away but my understanding is still relevant pfl trying to buy bellator folks they are going for it they are going for it here's the reality of the pfl situation again like i remember when nate diaz was getting out i was like there's no way he signs with pfl and i'm still skeptical that although depending on how things go with jake pa Jake Paul assigned to the PFL perhaps it is possible that his fortunes change on the other side or that we will we will see but I just didn't see them as a place because I knew they could get the money but I

didn't think they would ever roll out the red carpet for someone like this or or beyond that that there would be a meaningful way to tip over the apple cart for his respective divisions, which I still think is largely the case over there, but maybe less so true for heavyweight. We shall see. But they have turned out to be quite a good home, I think, for what Francis wants and what Francis is trying to do. And if they can buy Bellator, they are cooking with gas at that point. PFL, in the way in which they have constructed their business with this tournament system, everyone makes it out to be, oh, what's their calling card?

It's the tournament system because it sure as hell isn't the smart cage. The smart cage didn't do this deal. If the smart cage did the deal, then we would have to have some questions asked. But I'm guessing it wasn't really involved in the deal, so i don't really know how smart it is but what i want to say was if they could sign bellator or they could get access to their roster and then you could combine that with pfl and then you'd have sort of like this uh more not totally obviously but a more asian-based premier outside the ufc promotion with one sort of competing against a more uh different side of the world kind of concentration focus with PFL combining with Bellator's roster. I think that would be a dynamic competition outside of the UFC, which would create much more interesting and genuine alternatives for

the marketplace. Now, these are a lot of ifs and none of them are guaranteed, but I just want to point out like the way to look at this, it seems to me is PFL doing the tournament thing and just going on ESPN plus that is a path to nowhere. They cannot stay in business doing it this way. If you want to stay in business, you have to have access to the pay-per-view side of the business and you have to have access to the more premier side of it. Francis in theory is at least one step in that pretty big one, but one step in that direction to get to that end of the marketplace that can actually generate long-term sustainable revenue. Now, as I have said before, I am skeptical that in a world where the UFC is, in my judgment and the judgment of other economists, not all but many, a monopsony, just another version of a monopoly, instead of just one seller, one buyer. And as long as that is the case, I think any promotion,

even if PFL were to be able to acquire Bellator and then compete against one, even in that equation, I don't know exactly how much the rest of MMA can succeed. Obviously, certain versions of it can, but I mean, just outside the UFC, how big is that market and what does it have to look like to thrive? In a world where the UFC has control of almost 80% of the world's talent and makes 90% of every dollar earned in the industry, there's a broad question here about even if Francis does well for them on pay-per-view and even if he's able to recruit a couple of interesting heavyweights along the way to make for some fun fights, as long as the UFC has most of the talent under lock and key and they have changed their contracts

again to keep guys under longer terms, not as long as they once were, but certainly not as good as they had been up until 2017 or so, that is going to be difficult. Francis is a great, amazing signing for them, and he might be able to pull a couple of interesting guys onto the PFL's roster in service of a big paycheck that could make for fun and dynamic content. That's by no means guaranteed, but I just want to point out Francis by himself can't solve the UFC's, excuse me, PFL's problems to really make a sustainable run going big in the way that they are. They have to recruit a fair number. I don't know exactly what that would be, but I'm going to guess bare minimum, you know, eight to 10 reliable, maybe six to eight reliable figures who could draw on pay-per-view in in a noticeable full way now can Jake Paul do that I think it depends on the audience Jake Paul

does bigger numbers than MMA fans realize so that would be interesting to see if he can pull that crossover audience in Francis I guess we'll see but they've got you see what I'm saying it's like Francis is a is a noteworthy key gemstone, but the infinity gauntlet doesn't work unless you get all, all the stones, right? He's got the time stone and PFL has the time stone and they've got the, I don't know, whatever the, um, the other, the other, the other stones, I don't forget their names at this point, but you get what I'm saying? It only only makes you powerful but it doesn't really work for what you want it to do unless you've got all of them together um they don't have that and there's really no guarantee that they're going to get that even with francis and in fact what could end up happening is they sign francis to this deal

and they put out this advertisement but they for one reason or the other, they can't get someone to come over to that aisle. The fights themselves are not that great or big or interesting. And this all goes for not like it actually just blows up right where it is. And it doesn't lead to anything that is absolutely on the table as well. Cause here's one thing you should expect. You may not remember this, but I distinctly remember when Cowboy Cerrone and TJ Dillashaw and I think Cain Velasquez and Tim Kennedy and George St. Pierre, they all had that MMA, the MMAAA with Bjorn Rebney. And after that, it was sort of noted that even between fights, I think TJ and Cerrone got new contracts in between and you saw the support for that kind of thing. I mean,

it kind of blew up pretty quickly anyway, but the point I'm trying to make is the UFC, I think to make it worth their while, gave them a little bit more money. And coincidentally, they didn't have any participation in this effort anymore. I bring this all up to say, it is possible that by virtue of what Francis is doing, if they do have guys who are close to being done with their deals or working, they may offer them more lucrative terms than they otherwise would have to keep them under lock and key. That is possible, in which case this doesn't work for Francis either. This is a great contract for Francis, but that guarantees that it works. All they did today was they got, it's not all, they signed an enormously important figure,

but the rest of that is an advertisement for the future of what could be, not what will be. And it requires a certain amount of industry compliance that they can't manufacture or guarantee in order to reach that goal, a lot of which is going to be difficult to come by. I mean, I just think we should be realistic about that, right? So, but PFL, man, make no mistake, they are absolutely going big, hardcore. They are trying to be the unequivocal default destination for premier talent who don't end up in UFC. No question about it. That's what they're looking to do.

And then to take some of that talent away from UFC, that's, they are going for it in the way that will either expedite their growth and their future or expedite their decline because they're having to raise substantial amounts of money to get to this point, you know? So that's another thing to sort of consider as well. Um, another thing I think it's worth considering is a part of the deal that I guess I just don't understand is they're saying that Francis is going to be on this board and a minority owner in PFL and then this or excuse this global advisory board and then he's going to be a minority owner

and then chairman of PFL Africa it's like okay but if the deal is only for two fights and he wins both of them or even say loses them but what my point being is what happens when that deal is over now i get the ownership minority stake in pfl africa that doesn't change but is he still going to be chairman of the pfl africa if he is gone back over to ufc like him i know we are sort of saying he would never return to UFC seems unlikely but I wouldn't rule it out it'd be foolish to do so or even if he goes to Bellator or even if he goes to one or something does that does that what happens with that also the the global strategic board what again like he's an active fighter on the, on, on the thing. If does that

just go away? If he's not on the raw, I'm guessing he just goes away. If he's not on the roster anymore. Also like, what does that board really do? What kind of binding power does it have? I mean, I know it sounds nice for him to be on there. I'm not, I'm not declaring to you that it's not nice. I want to be clear. I'm only, I'm just genuinely asking the question. I don't know what its broad and actual contractual authority is in situations like this that, that remains to be seen. So it's kind of cool that they've integrated him in this way where like, Hey, we're going to make you part of this equation. Um, but I don't really know what that means exactly in terms of when they say something, when they say jumped, who says how high? Um, I don't really get,

I don't know what the answer is to that. I guess we'll have to see in time. Also, you see from that video we played at the top of the instant reaction, one thing that stands out about this deal, you see this in boxing all the time, is they don't approach deals like, I'm the promotion. I'm going to sign a fighter. They say, Hey, I'm a partner. I'm looking for another partner. Let's be partners together. So for example, you'll often see that, like for example, Canelo's mandatory that he just had with John Ryder in Guadalajara, Mexico there. It's really, it's a match room kind of event, but they'll co-promote with Canelo promotionsotions. So he actually not only gets a check as a promoter, but it makes the fighter feel like, A, we're going to find a way to enhance

your revenue, but also like we are on equal footing, not I'm up here, you're down there. I think Francis was looking for a deal that just mimicked what we saw in boxing in terms of that a side relationship with promoters. So, you know, Gervonta Davis has a relationship, um, uh, well with Al Heyman,

but you know, with all of the various parties in which he does fights with. And you saw with obviously regular, he was the a side, any top a side gets treated like that, where they get a promotional company. They also get a check for that and they get treated as we are equals, we are equals, not, you know, you're just a plumber. I'm hiring to do work for me.

And what Francis wanted was the respect that comes with that. I think this deal, at least in theory, seems to satisfy a lot of those conditions. I will say the thing that gives me the most pause about this deal, and there are many wonderful things about it, but the thing that concerns me most, I guess, would be twofold. One, he doesn't fight in mma until 2024 i gotta say that feels not optimal not optimal um if he ends up getting a boxing fight this year that is huge i mean that by itself would make leaving the ufc worthwhile to say nothing of getting a boxing fight and then walking into this mma deal i mean you hit the lottery hit the jackpot he might do that all i can say is on the boxing side there's

not a lot of discussion about this like the heavyweights were all trying to make interesting fights so there was a potential between fury and Usyk fell apart and then there was you know you heard you've seen Joshua say he's going to fight Wilder in December we haven't heard anything about that more than that there was a time where Wilder was going to fight Ruiz that kind of fell apart and so there's really some discussion now about the Saudi Arabian thing that they could make happen, but we don't really, like, that seems to me very pie in the sky. And even if that does happen, it doesn't include Francis. Like, none of those iterations include him.

So I don't really know what to make of Francis's fortunes in terms of securing a boxing fight in 2023. When he first was kind of getting out of the UFC and then linking up with Fury it seemed much more possible there have been discussions I know about him potentially fighting Wilder it's not to say I want to be clear about this I'm not saying that there's not interest in those not merely from the fans but from the actual people who pull the levers of the sport of boxing. There is. What I'm saying to you is, I don't know if it happens this year. It might. It just appears at the moment very unclear. And with that, it could work out really well for him in 2023

on the boxing side. It could work out really poorly for him on the boxing side. Meanwhile, delaying things till 2024. So obviously that would be what? A two-year absence? Let's see when he would come back so let's look up his just uh be clear about the dates here so he's he'll turn 37 in september yeah it would be 37 so that's not too old that's not too old his last fight against cyrilil Ghosn was in January of 2022. So yeah, we're all, I mean, you know, you're going to be gone two and a half years potentially.

That seems unwise to me. Now again, if Francis is baking it into his contract that he wants the space to get the fight in 2023, what he might be saying is, you know, I don't know if I'm going to get it either, but that's too big an opportunity to pass up by focusing on mma like there's probably a lot of reasons why he wanted to include it as a carve out all i'm saying is a two and a half year mma absence assuming he doesn't get the boxing fire or combat sports absence i won't call that a death sentence i don't think that's true but that comes with a lot of challenges about getting the fan base enthusiastic about your return. In certain ways, absence makes the heart grow fonder.

But in this case, what he's trying to do is show proof of concept. Like, I can leave the UFC and I can still do these things. And I think part of doing that and making this departure is not acting hastily, but striking while the iron is hot. So I think if he gets the boxing fight, it'll probably be okay in the end if he doesn't. And then he risks being gone more than two years, uh, two years of, by the way, you know, 35 is not exactly your prime, but 35 to 37 as a heavyweight, those are still good years for you giving them up by sitting on the sidelines I you know we just have to call balls and strikes that's a huge risk that's a huge risk so I don't know what to say

about that beyond it I mean I really think he is undertaking a very very significant risk doing that were it me and again I don't know I'm not privy to all the details that he has I'm sure he has talked with Tyson Fury's people I'm sure he has talked with Tyson Fury's people. I'm sure he has talked with AJ's people. I know for a fact he's talked with Deontay Wilder's people. So maybe he's got information that makes him more comfortable making this decision. We shall see. We shall see on that. The other thing is, and it's worth having this conversation as well,

which is could Francis end up bankrupting PFL? There's going to be a lot of people telling you that i'm not as convinced by that i'm not as convinced by that here's what i mean it's not that i'm arguing that francis's deal is not insanely expensive to them i'm sure that it is like i'm sure that that deal is an absolute backbreaker for them however uh and it's not i'm also not arguing that they have to sign francis right it's like it's if you don't sign francis it can't be done that's not my point but my what i would argue is the way in which they've been signing talent and doing these shows on regular television this is this is not a sustainable path i know they've been on tv for some time now but that doesn't

work it will eventually it doesn't return the amount of money long-term that you would, in theory, need to make that operation successful. So they can buy time with the amount of revenue that they have generated. And we should also know, dude, PFL can raise a lot of money. To even be in the conversation to buy Bellator, you know, I doubt that's a billion dollars, but that's probably, what, between 500 million and up? I mean, you're buying significant assets at that point, right? It's a lot of money.

Maybe that's a little high. Nevertheless, it would require, how about this? Let me back up a step. It would require hundreds of millions of dollars to be able to make a transaction like that, probably, right? In conjunction with getting Francis. We're just talking about a substantial amount of money. contracts are structured elsewhere that they're going to be able to recruit enough players to make all of this valuable the truth is it's what is the alternative yes they could not sign francis they've got cedric dumebe coming and they could sign in other ways but again like you you have to have access to the end of the spectrum that someone like francis occupies in order to make what they're doing in terms of the amount that they've generated and what their vision is. You have to have that on the other side.

You have to be able to have access to that corner of the market. So it's this real, very difficult, rock-and-a-hard-play situation where if you don't sign guys like that, you don't have to sign every one of them, but if you don't sign guys like that, you won't get there. But even if you do, there's absolutely no guarantee that you will. So you might see some folks saying this deal could cost PFL and it might be bad for them. Again, I'm not suggesting to them it's not financially burdensome, but they are in a really weird predicament where they either have to push their chips to the middle or they can just slowly do

what they're doing until it just runs out of money and never really get to any other stage. There's no version of growth, what they do that doesn't happen without signing that higher end. That's it. It has to happen. So for me, great contract for Francis. For me, a bold one for PFL, a huge chips in the middle kind of moment for PFL, it seems like to me, especially with that Bellator news. I'm happy for Francis. He's going to get a lot. I think he will be able to get a couple of interesting fights.

But once again, there's just a lot of, and again, with PFL Africa, that could be huge depending on how that works. There's a lot of stuff here built in that gives Francis not just flexibility, but investment in things he cares about, giving back to places that he came from, creating opportunities for others, not just the PFL Africa, but his opponent. Again, it's a recruitment tool, but sharing wealth in that way or forcing promotions to share wealth more favorably.

It's an interesting moment, and I wonder what it might mean for future free agency if we ever see something like this again or soon. Tons and tons of interesting questions related to that. I've got more, I'm sure, but I think it's a great deal for Francis. I do. I think Francis got what he wanted. I think the people telling you he was fumbling I do. I think Francis got what he wanted. I think the people telling you he was fumbling the bag. Let me end on that. These jamokes telling

you that he was fumbling the bag, they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. They're just saying shit. They're just saying shit. If you want to say, well, I don't know if this kind of investment is worth it for PFL for X or Y reasons, I think that's not unreasonable or they can invest all this money and it goes nowhere.

And that deal blew up in their face. That's not necessarily unreasonable. But that Francis was fumbling the bag. Show me the fucking evidence of that. They're just saying words. They're not. Or he should go back to UFC. They're just saying words.

They're not saying. They're saying something just based off of a worldview that doesn't match reality. It doesn't match reality at all. He didn't fumble a thing. Francis, it seems to me, constructed perhaps the most interesting and potentially most he gained concessions as an a side in MMA that makes his contract look like a really good boxing contract just a level of impossible that he was able to put together you just don't see contracts like this this is this is a I mean the PFL they met his demands like Francis did this one very well and to do that with no manager extremely impressive extremely impressive so the good side to me

Francis is going to get paid his opponents are going to get paid he has a flexible deal he has a fighter friendly deal in the most in like truly historic ways he got things that allow him to take care of himself people behind him people where he came from people he is doing business with at the same time we should be very clear about it not any of that guarantees success for pfl not any of that They still have a lot of work cut out for themselves. Chips in the middle moment. We will see what the turn card on the river ends up being.

I think that's it for me, folks. Got you about 43 minutes of instant reaction. I know he's going to speak later today. Let me set up tomorrow's show on Morning Combat. We'll get some reactions from the extremely lazy Brian Campbell, but he'll have a good take for you guys for tomorrow. On top of that, joining us at the top of the show tomorrow, Eric Nixick.

Because of this two-and-a-half-year absence, I really want to know what his MMA coach is going to do to keep this guy ready in all that time and how he feels about all this potential time off. So Nixick joins us 11 a.m. at the top of the show tomorrow on MK. Further reaction to this, we'll have clips from Francis' interview on MMA Hour. You guys can check that out

at 1 p.m. But that's it for me. So thank you guys so much for watching. I'll talk to you and Eric Nixick and BC and everyone else tomorrow, 11 a.m. in the East, 11 a.m. in the East. This has been our Francis Ngannou signs with PFL Instant Reaction. I'll talk to you gents and ladies

tomorrow.