MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Laura Sanko on Her UFC Ascent, Jon Jones at Heavyweight & Islam Makhachev's Run | Morning Kombat RSD

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

Luke Thomas and Brian Campbell sit down with UFC Commentator & Analyst Laura Sanko on the Room Service Diaries couch. Laura and the guys talk about what made her want to fight early on, What advice they would give to aspiring Commentators/Analysts and how she got her job at the UFC. Laura also breaks down how she thinks Jon Jones will do at heavyweight, How long Islam Makhachev will be champion and what her DMs are looking like these days. (2:30) - UFC 281 Fight Week  (3:20) - UFC Reporter & Analyst Job (10:10) - Dana White Contenter Series  (14:00) - Passion for Combat Sports (15:45) - Deciding to Compete in MMA  (20:30) - MMA Community Pushback  (28:30) - Advice for Aspiring Broadcasters/Reporters  (33:00) - First Real Job in MMA (35:50) - Professional MMA Fight  (38:15) - Laura's DM's  (40:00) - Fighting Career  (41:40) - Goals in Combat Sports (54:30) - Kathy Long  (57:00) - Growing up in the 90s  (59:15) - Jon Jones  (64:00) - Islam Makhachev (66:30) - Adesanya vs. Pereira  (68:30) - Bantamweight Title Picture  (70:15) - Middleweight Title Picture (71:30) - Dana White's Power Slap League  (73:00) - Kayla Harrison   (74:00) - Close  Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit:morning kombat.store   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And if you're like me and think a TFSA stands for Total Fund Savings Adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. I'm Laura Sanko, and I am here for Room Service Diaries with Luke Thomas and Brian Campbell. And I am pumped to be here, man. I'm excited. I've seen this show, always wanted to be on it. So got the VIP treatment today. Hi! We made it! How are you?

Nice to see you. Come on, bring it in. Good to see you. How are you? You know this jabroni? I do. I always forget what both of you are in person. Well, what I know about Luke and Brian is that they are some of the best minds in this sport. What the fuck are you doing? I mean, they're just, they're just good guys. They like having a good time.

I have no idea what to expect from this, honestly. Even though I've watched some of the room service diary shows. I'm just a little concerned about your lack of discretion. Oh, Jesus fuck. Man, this is nothing like what I thought it would look like. Yeah, it's shitty, right? Yeah, it's even sadder.

No, no. You never know, I mean, these two are a little bit of a wild card, they can take it any direction they want and I'm game, let's do it. You know, do you have any lane changes, strategies you wanna, you know, instill before this? No, I have absolutely zero guidance. Did you get the photos already?

I've got my Dahmer glasses on. You know, I try to live my life a quarter mile at a time. Is this the doc or is this the screen set? I'm just trying to figure it out. This couch is crazy. Dude, we want Tom. She's a fighter. She is a YouTube star.

She's an analyst. She's of many things, including the first lady of the Contender Series. And now she joins us in our pathetic studios for a conversation about it all. She's a professional broadcaster, Luke. Official broadcaster. It's Laura Sanko, everyone. Swiss Army Knife. Swiss Army Knife. How are you doing, Laura? I'm doing great. You could not look any bigger than you do right professional broadcaster, Luke. Official broadcaster. It's Laura Sanko, everyone. Swiss Army Knife. Swiss Army Knife. How are you doing, Laura?

I'm doing great. You could not look any bigger than you do right now. Yeah, they do this to me. They fuck with me here on the show. And I want them all to die. I want you all to know. I forget how tall, really both of you, I forget how tall both of you are. Yeah.

Because I'm just used to seeing your little heads on screen. Yeah, that's my superpower, to project fat and weak on the camera. And then, you know, project camera and then, you know, project tall and weak, you know, upon... But he's really taken over this shot, but I like it. I like it.

It's your show. We are here. It's UFC 281 Fight Week. What have they got you doing this week? A little bit of everything. As usual, I've got the weigh-in show tomorrow,

which that's absolutely one of my favorite things to do. I love that show. I feel like it's kind of the first time I've been able to, I don't know, let my personality loose a little bit. And then on fight night, I'll be backstage doing quick hits, which is like the kind of a social media behind the scenes interviews with the winners and celebrities and stuff like that. So I'm a little surprised because I don't know if it's an ESPN call or a UFC call or a combo of both. And we'll talk about more of

the commentary. I'm surprised they don't have you on the desk in between. Have there been any discussions about that? There have. I think I'm hopeful that that's going to be a thing. A lot of it was scheduling. So, like, the quick hits is an important property for them. And they really, Dane in particular, really likes me doing it. So it's kind of, it was a thing that he started with me

in mind. And then I would love to, you know, do the ESPN desk when I can. It's just a little conflict of schedule, but we're working, we're working around it, Luke. Yeah. Well, I gotta say the last, like, I don't know how you feel about it. I feel like the last four years or so they've been good years for you, right? They have. Would you say it's about 2018 where the worm started to turn? Yeah, I mean, I definitely think Contender Series was the turning point for me. In fact, a lot of people think that that's where I started. It's not. Obviously, I was working the backstage Fox stuff before then for the UFC

and then, of course, Invicta before that. So it really wasn't my start. But the fact that most people think it is will tell you how big of a turning point it was for me and how have I mean how's it been like tell me what tell me how your life is different now if you can say something like that it's weird I mean I just never I sometimes have to sit back and pinch myself even sitting here honestly like I not that long ago really not that long ago, really not that long ago, I was a fan at home scheduling my entire social life around when the next pay-per-view UFC event was going to be because they were not that frequent. That's our lives right there. Yeah, they were not that frequent.

And you try to figure out, okay, what bar is showing it? Get all my friends together. So it really is wild to see, I don't know, just to see what I've been able to carve out in the last couple of years. But sometimes it takes these moments for me, like to sit back and really look at it. Cause I'm such a what's next, what's next person. Yeah. And, but you've, you've made not just dramatic movements, which we're impressed by. And we, we congratulate you because it's not an easy business, not an easy business to navigate. You've stuck to your guns of who you are, a fighter, somebody

that understands the game and now you're not the first female analyst in UFC history because didn't we have one at UFC 1? Kathy Long. So that was day one, but it has been a long time. You've made a leap in that direction. So I'm not like, how does it feel to be a pioneer? But really, how does it feel

to represent something a little bit bigger than just, hey, your career is going in a great direction at the moment? It's cool. I have a hard time using that word for myself, but I always appreciate what other people do. It's certainly pioneering work. You know, I think for people who don't understand, and you guys certainly do because you're in this business. I think for people who don't understand the very distinct lanes that exist in television, maybe they don't get how difficult it was for me to switch lanes. Explain what that means, the lanes. So when I say lanes, you know, there are well-trained broadcasters that quite often,

and I'll even go so far as to say most of the time we have a female who went to broadcasting school. She'll become a reporter or a host or an anchor. And it's sort of that person has the TV chops. They are excellent at the flow of the conversation. And they usually went to school for this. And then you've got the rest of us who hopefully are there to hear our opinion. So to take me, so that's your color commentators and your analysts, usually people who have an intimate knowledge of the sport or have something

to say that people want to hear. So to go from, you know, a reporter who very much looks like she should be a reporter to finding a way to have a voice in the sport and just trying to get people to listen to it and respect it. And I, I, I know I tell you this all the time, but I feel like I have to say it again. Like you don't, it's okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna both of you guys. Um, but you in particular, like you were one of the first, if not the first person to publicly and outright say, wow, Laura Sanko has got smart things to say about MMA. And it wasn't just, Hey, she's cute. Or she's, you know, she's got a bubbly personality or whatever. It meant so much to me when you, when you said that, in fact, I like, I remember like laying in bed and I, I clipped it and I showed it to my husband and I posted it because it was, it was a big deal.

And it's, it's taken, um, a lot of time to get to get that that momentum and that ball rolling like hey she's not just this reporter lane because the reporters it's a really tough job like megan is so good at what she does when they when they time those walkouts and she knew i cannot that's that's walking a tightrope yeah walking a tightrope that's like roller skating and taking information down over the phone at the same time. Yes. Honestly, she and John Anik have the hardest jobs when it comes to fight night. Megan O'Leary, John Anik, I mean, they get my applause all day long. It is an incredibly difficult job.

Same thing with the desk host. It's a really tough skill set. They're all different flexings of the muscles. But to touch on what you feel like you kind of overcame, we can't, you know, we weren't the same journey. We're not females. It's a different, but, you know, we're ex-reporters, you know, non-fighters who to some degree are looked at for our analysis.

You know, I call boxing fights. Luke does along with me. Luke's been one of the leading, you know, non-fighting analysts in the game, but somebody who obviously knows his shit. So I think we can at least relate on when you finally feel like you have a little bit of credibility, it does mean more than the money, the followers, the, you know,

at that point when you get that credibility and you got it right away because you could do the job, but, you know, that really matters, you know? It does. It's fuel. It does. And I remember like, I remember sitting next to, whether it would be Paul or DC or Bisping calling fights.

And I would definitely have these moments in my head where I'm like, holy fucking shit, I'm calling fights with Daniel Cormier. Like, does anyone, like, are they sure I should be here? You know, I know I should be there. And I know I have things to say. But there's also that, there's a little bit of imposter syndrome that creeps in now and then that I really have to battle. But at the end of the day, I know that they respect me sitting there. It took a while. It took a lot of stuff like behind the scenes, getting their respect and not demanding it.

You know what I mean? Like it took a long time of just sort of being one of the guys, if that makes any sense. Oh yeah. It also takes time to block the haters as Luke knows. I mean, he'll block people for looking at him the wrong way on social media. I don't, I don't tolerate fools gladly. Yeah. I never will. Um, what was the turning point? What was the, what was, was there a moment or a thing that somebody in position of power saw that was like, okay, let's give her a shot. This is a great story. And I have to give credit to this entire, everything that we're talking about, I really have to give credit to Dana.

And I know that that makes me sound like a total homer and people already, you know. It makes you sound like Michael Chandler, but I get it. Yeah, like I understand that. But so it was the first year of Contender Series and he doesn't always wear his earbuds. In fact, he usually doesn year of Contender Series, and he doesn't always wear his earbuds. In fact, he usually doesn't during Contender Series because he just wants to watch the fights

and not be influenced by commentary. And for whatever reason, he threw his earbuds in, and, like, in the middle of the show, he got up from his spot and came in the back, and I was absolutely fucking terrified. I thought I was getting fired for some reason because there were a couple times where when I went to announce those winners, and I'm not an announcer, didn't come out so great.

So I thought it was like, we're done with you. But he came back, and he just goes, you know how he is. He's like, holy fucking shit. You really know your shit. And I was like, yes, sir, thank you, I do. And he goes, literally, everything. He's like, look at my notes. Literally. I do. And he's like, he goes, literally everything. He's like, look at my notes. Literally everything I wrote down is what you asked them. And I was like,

yeah, I know. I like, I like talking about the fight, not just the storylines. He's like, I'm going to watch you, you know? And then I don't know if it was that week or not long thereafter. I always knew I could do more. Like I always knew I could do more than relay information that was given to me, which is largely what being a reporter in the UFC on camera is. It's, again, very difficult, but like I wanted to have an opinion and I wanted to have thoughts. And so I got a little bit drunk one night after the Contender Series. Oh, shit. In my room.

And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to DM Dana. And so I was like, hey, I just want to thank you for the opportunity, like, for putting me on this show. It's been amazing. I fucking love it. And just so you know, like, one day I will be the UFC's first female commentator. Nice.

I had to have been hammered because like who does that? I've been with your company a year and a half now. I had one professional fight in Invicta. But I was just like fuck it. I know I can do this. And I sent it to him

and I don't, I think I immediately regretted it but like he it was like three o'clock in the morning. He responded. He's like, I believe you. And that was the end of the conversation. Okay. That's a good response.

I like that response. I know. It wasn't like a, oh yeah, we're putting you there. But it was like, it was, it was, it was the perfect response. He didn't have a laughing emoji. No, no. And he didn't ignore it. And, and there's been several moments like that since then where he has been very much an encourager of this to happen.

And I appreciate that. I'll say this. This is a true story. Like, it really is fake it till you make it, to be quite honest with you. I called the very first pro show in Washington, D.C. in May of 2007. And I was working at Bloody Elbow at the time. And I remember I called the promoter just for an interview. And he was like, yeah, we don't have anyone calling the, we don't have a color commentator yet. And I've

never done literally zero television work, nothing. And I told him, yeah, I could do it. Like, I don't even know what came over me to do it. He gave me that job. He gave me the job. And then, uh, the guy who was the ring announcer was one of the morning hosts, like the most famous morning show host in DC. They started having me on their show to do UFC analysis. Then I got a show on that station. Then I got on Sirius XM and it just, it kind of all ballooned. Like you just have to create your own future. You have to do it. I've had other careers as well. And it, it, it's a running theme throughout my life that I have been criminally like, uh, I don't want to say unprepared because I was prepared, but under-credentialed to be put in a lot of the spots, but it was

always me saying when someone would ask, I'd say, yep, I can do that. And then in my mind going, oh, well, now I've got to figure out how the fuck to do that. But I did. Whether it was PR or finance or whatever. I think we all eventually hit a crossroads moment, but not everybody goes in the direction that

we've luckily been able to go where we just kind of go all in on ourselves. And sometimes you're forced to do that financially, or sometimes you forced to do that because you're so frustrated that you're like, F it, you have your total F it moment. And then I think a lot of people get to that point and they just go, well, I don't have that in me. So I was going to go the other direction and, and, you know, but you went after it and I can totally, uh, respect that and feel your passion. And, and I mean like passion is the thing at the end can totally respect that and feel your passion. And, I mean, like, passion is the thing at the end of the day that you can't teach.

Yeah. When did you get that—injected with that passion for this fight game that, like, if you didn't have, you would have been, quote-unquote, found out, right? Yeah. Like, sometimes we feel like imposters. You would have been an imposter if you didn't get injected with a passion for the game. That's such an interesting question because it really, this sounds so stupid, but it really started when I was like four. I remember my dad used to travel a lot to Asia and he brought back this little gi and it was right when Karate Kid came out. And I don't know why my parents let me watch Karate Kid

because I was raised in like a super conservative Christian home, but somehow I watched it. I know why because it was the 80s and 90s and there were no rules back then and parents were like, get out of our house for the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go find trouble, yeah.

I just fell in love with that movie. I fell in love with the notion of like, I guess maybe smaller people finding ways to be powerful, if that makes sense. And so I remember like, I put on that little gi, and I'd be on my bed jumping crane kicks or whatever. And then it really just went from there. I did karate all through high school.

I got my black belt. And then I really didn't do anything during college. And I kind of thought, because I didn't compete in karate. I thought it was kind of all in my past. And I just went through a really tough time in my personal life. And it was Rob Kimmons. I don't know if you know who Rob Kimmons is. He's an old.

Yeah, the Muay Thai guy, right? Well, Rob Kimmons, he did do Muay Thai, but he was one of the first UFC fighters out of the Kansas City area. Like old school, old school. I'm thinking of Rob Kimmons or somebody else. Maybe. I think you are. Yes, I'm sorry.

No, it's okay. So Rob Kimmons, he didn't have. Oh, Kimmons. Yeah, Rob Kimmons. K-I-M-M. Yeah, K-I-M-M-O-N-O. Sorry, I misunderstood you. Yeah, Rob Kimmons. I stumbled onI-M-M. Yeah, K-I-M-M. Sorry, I misunderstood you. Yeah, Rob Kimmins.

I stumbled on him at like a normal weightlifting gym and he was working out and I kind of just never let go. At first he was like, no, you can't train with us. You know, like, get the fuck out of here. I just kept sticking around and asking and asking. And I think if I can point to a specific moment when like I fell in love with MMA, it was probably my first amateur fight.

I don't, it's really impossible. So what year was this? Because your first pro, your only pro fight was 2013. When was your first amateur fight? 2009. Okay. And I've got some that aren't on there. It's not, I, you know,

the difference between six and eight isn't that big. I have eight fights, people. I can't wait eight times. Was any at the Lava Shack outside in the parking lot? Oh, I fought in a barn once. I fought a girl on meth. You know, it was wild. At a party or at an official thing?

BC fights girls on meth every Friday. It was an official, unofficial fight? I don't know. I don't know. The first MMA fight I ever went to, this is true, was in a billiards hall. Yeah, it was in the middle of nowhere in Missouri. Okay, but you seem like a very well-adjusted, normal person in a very abnormal industry and sport.

Little do you know. I have so much respect for fighters, but for you to overcome that barrier that prevents me from taking that leap, yes, maybe it helped that you grew up in martial arts, but for you to sign down and say no, I'm going to take an amateur fight, was that an easy leap for you? Because that's the point

where most of us get on the couch and order the paper. What was going on in your life where like, hey, I'm going to have an amateur MMA fight that made all the sense? Yeah, well, I don't really know. I, my, my, I definitely didn't have like a, I mean, I not at all were rough upbringing. In fact, I had a very vanilla, wonderful upbringing. Like my parents were up upper middle class and like, I never hurt for money and never got into trouble and made great grades. It was like salutatorian and Kansas city.

Yeah. I lived, I lived here in New York. You were salutatorian of your great grades. It was like salutatorian in Kansas City. Yeah. I lived here in New York. You were salutatorian of your high school? I was, and I was graduated fifth in my class at college. Like I was always, yeah. And after that, wow. I was summa cum laude. You're more of Luke Thomas area because William and Mary grad.

I'm the community college. Phi Beta Kappa was founded at William and Mary. How about that? Yeah. I mean, but that's people that need those things. Sororities, fraternities, you know. Like people who want jobs. I have a not-so-secret crush on his vocabulary.

Like, there are literally times where I just gush over certain words you use. You know, it's so unlike all my other experiences in MMA where people are like, why are you talking like that? Yeah. I'm like, that's just how I fucking talk. I know.

I love it. If he would be willing to dye his hair one time, I think I'd have a crush on him too. But he likes the old, you know. I'm going gray like it's a contest. I mean, I really, it's just, it won't fucking stop. It just, the gray just is eating me alive. You can fight back though. No.

No. No. With that shoe polish fucking Elvis Presley 1975. I overdid it that time. This fucking guy. Did you do it? Oh, Laura. He was. Is this dye right now? No, no, no, fucking Elvis Presley 1975. I overdid it that time. This fucking guy. Did you do it? Oh, Laura. What?

Is this die right now? No, no, no, no, no, no. He will show up. Like, he won't say shit. And then he'll show up on set and look like a fucking game show host who's in the last stage of his career. I look like Elvis from the 68 comeback special with the leather black. I mean, I was just jet black, but it didn't work.

Why do men feel like that matters? I don't know. It doesn't matter. Yeah, men are insecure. That's why. Well, so are we. But, like, it just, I'm telling you, as a woman of a certain age, I'm a few weeks out from turning 40. Like, it doesn't matter.

Yeah, welcome. Image doesn't matter? Yeah, it does. Well, image does, but gray hair doesn't. Oh, gray hair doesn't. Like, you can't be a fat, giant, like, slob. Image doesn't matter? Yeah, it does. Well, image does, but gray hair doesn't. Oh, gray hair doesn't. Like, you can't be a fat, giant, like, slob. Right. But, you know, gray hair.

I mean, Luke's a silver fox. I'll give him that, right? You're both silver foxes. If you would just own it, Brian. Like, let it shine. Let the gray. Let the gray just take you away. I'm that factory town hero that just realized that the factories are closed.

Every time I look in the mirror, I'm like, how the fuck did I turn into Gandalf overnight? Yeah. Overnight. Overnight. Overnight. When you posted that picture of you as a Marine. Oh yeah. 19 years old in that picture. Yeah.

19 years old. And someone in the comments was like, Hey, don't look half bad. I'm like, I haven't always been a Dodge Omni. I might be one now, but I haven't always been a Dodge Omni.

Fuck you. You always been a Dodge Omni. No, no, no. You know, I'm, I'm one of those guys that you're torn looking at.

You're like, he may have had a prime. It's possible. It's possible. Well, he proved it today on Twitter. Yeah. Post your 19-year-old picture, fucker. I had a goatee that curled under to here. Did you really?

I did. Stop. What year is this? Did you wear puka shell necklaces? This was 1997 and 8. And, you know, those two calendar years, I did not do well with the ladies. So it's not a surprise, right? Laura, let's get back to this for just a second, if we may.

We're talking about him. I thought my transition. I mean, just you describing living in the no fucking section, as interesting as that is. I have to tell you, though, I do wonder about some of the attitudes you might get in the sport, right? Because online, it's just hard to tell what the perception is. I see a lot of positivity around.

Yeah. Hey, look at this woman doing this amazing things. And I had my wife listen to your commentary. And the first thing she said was like, yo, she does her homework. Like it was just obviously apparent. His wife once rolled with Roxanne Montefiore. That's true. Oh, did she really?

Yeah, she did. Oh, you thought I was going to demean her, that beautiful woman. Yeah, if you did, we'd have some problems. But on the other side, I do wonder what it's like because I don't have your job. I don't have your life. I don't have your career. But every time I put out even a video where I'm breaking down something, I always wonder, like, you know, is it going to be accepted or whatnot?

You got a job doing commentary, still with Contender Series, not full on UFC events events before any other female fighters got it yeah I wonder if you faced any pushback for that well for sure I mean there's there there's a whole I mean you don't have to dig very hard on Twitter to find there's a whole contingent of people that love to point out like well even just the other day I did um another radio show and I was you know like you I like, I like, I do, I'm curious about how people are receptive, especially when I do kind of more in-depth analysis and not just, hey guys, here I am. And a lot of positivity, but then there's like someone that's always like, she's a,

she's a Johnny come lately from ESPN that knows nothing about the sport. And I'm like, well, first off, I don't even work for ESPN. Second of all, I mean, I've been, I know I don't have the longest topology. I get that. It's teeny, teeny, tiny, but I've been in the sport, in the trenches of the sport, I'll even say since 2006, like I'm still training. I just got my brown belt. Thank you. Thank you. I, you know, but I just kind of, I try to shake that stuff off because the people that matter in my world, the people that are there to open more doors and the doors that I really want open, they get it.

And so at the end of the day, I just got to shut it off. And I will say this, probably more positive than not. I was a little scared, especially when I first did the LFA fights. Like, the jump from Invicta to LFA felt like a big jump. And then, of course, the jump from LFA to Contender Series also felt like a big jump. And every time I've made that jump, I've been pleasantly surprised

by male and female reception of... But yeah, there's a lot of, like, why is it her? Well, there's going to be sharks, right? If it's a pool worth swimming in, there's going to be sharks. And I'm for sure... Listen, I'm totally, like, why is it her? Well, there's going to be sharks, right? If it's a pool worth swimming in, there's going to be sharks. And I'm for sure, listen, I'm totally like,

everyone knows I'm fucking Dana. And, you know. I wasn't expecting you to break news here. And my boss. And my boss. And any guy I've ever seen with. These are just facts suddenly on the internet. Total facts.

But do you echo what like the pro wrestlers will say when they retire? What I learned in this business is you can either have friends or make money. I mean, at some point in this game, maybe in any corporate structure where people are trying to make their moves, you do have to at some point protect the brand, right? And just not—and be like—I mean, Luke doesn't give a damn. I actually respect it to a degree. I don't get it.

But, like, he doesn't give a damn what people—what his followers—he. I don't get it. Why are you spending it back on me? Damn what his followers He's like $30 to ask a single question, but they still pay it, Luke. But you don't care about them at all. But us normal people, we have heartstrings and we're reactive sometimes. In no way, shape,

or form are you a normal person. I mean, I guess you gotta just, you know. Is there a question there? No, I mean, I guess you got to just, you know. Is there a question there? No, it's just people that, you know, people that have crawled through and made it, Luke. They like to have, sometimes like to sit around and just talk about their success. Yeah, more stories. Successful people.

I will say this. Hearing you talk about this and like, you know, some of the bullshit I've done to get ahead at all. I hate the things you have to do to win in this world. I really do. Like, you got to do to win in this world. I really do. Like the, you have to like, you got to play the game. Whatever, whatever little bit of success I've tasted has taught me.

It's like, now I know why assholes finish first. Yeah. Right. Don't you feel that way? I do. I do. But I'm, I'm genuinely trying to like combat that because I have that converse,

the conversation we're having right now, I have with myself all the time where it's incredibly frustrating when certain things play out the way that they do or certain people have attitudes that are completely unjust and unprovoked and whatever. There's a lot of like, she shouldn't be having the success she's having. So let's, you know. It has been fast. I will say that. Yeah.

Or I know you worked all that time and then there was the turning points around 2018 or so. But it has been meteoric since then anyway. For sure it has. And I've worked my ass off for it. That's probably the part I get. Long time in the cocoon before the wing show. Yeah, fair enough. I love that, Brock.

Fair enough. I'm stealing that. You're stealing. I'm still wiggling out of that cocoon over here. I don't remember what the question was. Yeah, me neither. But I got a great follow-up. All right. So the real drug in this game in broadcasting, in my opinion,

is being able to lay your finger on a fight at the soundtrack. You're not in the cage anymore. I'm not in the boxing ring, but somebody decided it was a good idea to pay me money to put on a suit and help author or throw a dab of myself onto the soundtrack of the call. Being there is a drug separate from the money, the prestige, the, oh, this is all I ever wanted to do, but didn't think I could actually get here.

The drug of me showing up every time is that I'm inches away from a live fight and whatever the hell I react is, is the record of no. You know, I'm not trying to put too much pressure on a call because you can watch it without the volume like Luke and nobody knows what we're talking about. But do you feel that drug every contender series when you go out there that there's an energy, there's something insanely fun and dangerous here

and I'm right in the midst of it? A hundred percent I do. And it's not unlike fighting. It really isn't. And that's probably why I was so drawn to this side of things because when I knew I wasn't going to return to fighting after having my son, I had to stay close to the sport. Like it's too much in me. It's too much in my bones, too much a part of my day-to-day life to just not be involved somehow. I would have been a manager

or an agent, something. But yeah, to sit there and to be able to I think the word you used is perfect to author to communicate the art that someone is is displaying and I think I think for me because of the way that I stepped away from the sport and like there never was an Adam White class in the UFC so they're like there wasn't a reason for me to push on that side of things. I think that I live vicariously through the fighters and I mean all of them, like win, lose or draw. You might even be fighting a teammate of mine. I still like care about telling your stories as properly as I can. And when I say story, like the story of how you express yourself in a fight and doing my best to do it justice.

And to me, because I don't have a belt to point at or a long typology page or whatever, I know I have to compensate. Right. And I do that by doing an inordinate amount of research on everything I can, which let me tell you with Road to UFC. Not easy.

The names alone are hard to pronounce. I, I I'm not overly proud of my commentary on that show because it is, it is so incredibly difficult to keep the name straight and to keep people's story straight. And we don't have any background information on them. It's very different even than Contender Series. We don't get the sit down, kind of get to know them as a person, be able to attach a story to who they are as a fighter. Also, it's a two-man booth, not a three-man, correct?

Yes, and I'm the only, yes, exactly. That was another jump that felt scary at the time because there's a little part of me that's like, well, they'll accept me as this third wheel that chimes in and says things here and there, but you know, which is totally fine. I, I, I don't mind that. I actually like that role. I get that DC, Mike Bisping, Paul Felder, whoever, those are the guys. I just want like a seat at the table. But then when I'm the only one at the table, it's like, well, here we go. You know, for women who want to get into broadcasting and combat sports, what's your advice? What's the,

what are a couple of good lessons you've learned? Um, you have to do a lot for free first and a lot. Um, and, and, and that, and just accept that. Like the first MMA media gig I had was for when Titan FC was back in Kansas City all the time, the old days on AXS TV. I just really wanted to go to the fights because a lot of my friends were fighting on it and I just wanted to go to the fights and sit cage side. So I offered, I don't remember the name of the blog,

but I offered some blog, like, hey, I'll sit there and type out, blow by blow, horrible recaps. Like then he threw a left hand next. Like it was atrocious. Who would, who would want to read that? But it was a reason, like I got a ticket. I didn't make any money, but I got a ticket and I got to sit right next to the action. And that was like, that was 2009. So all those hours mattered by the way, in the end, they all, they all make the puzzle. They're all important pieces. They did. So like, even as an amateur, I obviously wasn't anywhere close to commentating or communicating

what I was seeing, but I was looking at fights differently. I think then I would have otherwise for sure. So anything else besides working for free to start? Okay. So working for free at the start and just accept that that's okay. If you have specific sites that on the UFC or a big promotion, like you've got to figure out what promotion is a feeder to that promotion and try to like, and if you can't get in with a fight pass promotion,

then you figure out, okay, who feeds into those, you know, and then start climbing the ladder and start putting yourself out there and offering to do things. I think that's the biggest thing too. You can't wait for opportunities to come to you. No one's going to be able to advocate for you better than yourself. And I had to learn it corporately, the long, hard way of hard work isn't enough. If the person above you that has the ability to hire you doesn't know that you're interested in being hired,

then it's the end of the conversation right there. 100%. You have to chase it down. You got to call up that local promotion and say, hey, I know you're not on TV, but I could do some interviews and put them on a YouTube page. Oh, we haven't really thought about that. Anything like that. And then just don't know what I thought about that, you know, anything like that. And, and then just don't, don't stop. But in terms of like specifically being a woman, um, I think.

Is the, I have to be twice as good rule. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I, and I'm mortified when I make mistakes, like mortified to the point where it really keeps me up. And I'm running through them in my head right now. And, you know, the guys that do the commentary make mistakes all the time. And it's no big deal because people make mistakes. You're going to use the wrong name for a submission or whatever.

It's really hard to talk for seven hours and not say something that's not perfectly correct. Right. But yeah, every, I do feel the pressure to, to not fuck up and cause it's not just about me. Um, again, I don't, I don't, again, I don't like using the word pioneer, but I do feel like there is a, there is a mantle of responsibility because if whoever it is, but it happens to me, it happens to be me, goes out there and completely bombs or feeds into some sort of stereotype that people might have about a female commentator and everyone's like, oh, we didn't like that. That ruins it for a lot of other women. And there are a lot of women coming up that are going to be capable of doing this job very soon. I feel like, I think I said this to you when we did our interview right after I got the Contender Series gig. I happen to be at a very unique crossroads of having the fight knowledge,

having the actual practical knowledge, the jujitsu knowledge, the striking knowledge, and then having the television shops, enough of the television shops. There just are not that many women who live at that crossroads yet, but they're coming up. And I hope that... The future is female, everyone. I just wanted to let you know that, Luke. Okay.

The future isn't... I mean, it's not exclusively female. Two keys. All right. The future is your daughter. We certainly hope. Yeah. Now to backtrack on your story a little bit here, just so I have all the pieces in place.

You got your, the very first like real gig was what? Like something on YouTube for, you know, fuck face MMA doesn't count. Okay. Real gig would have been Invicta. Okay. How'd you get that gig? Shannon Knapp, the owner at the time, literally called me out of nowhere.

I had either just had my son or I was maybe even still pregnant at the time. I think I had just had my son. And she probably knew, you know, MMA was not ever going to be, I shouldn't say it. I wanted to have an MMA career if it was going to be in the UFC.

But for Invicted to be the apex was not enough for me financially or time-wise. So I think she kind of knew that. And she just called me out of nowhere and was like, hey, Marlos Kunin is coming to town. We don't have a sideline reporter. Would you be willing to interview her on air? And I said, yes.

And then I proceeded to say, but Shannon, you do know I've never held a microphone before I've never looked at a camera before I don't and she's like you'll be fine I can tell you're gonna be good at this so kudos to her too and that led to Fox Sports and that led to yes that led to an audition with uh with Fox Sports specifically for the UFC it wasn't like Fox Sports in general they were okay they audition, actually, they auditioned me as an anchor. And I had never worked with multiple cameras. I had never worked with analysts.

It's not so easy, is it? It was awful. It was so awful. I mean, I have a hard time with it still. If they don't have the trail lights on them, it's hard to follow which way to go. I'd never read from a teleprompter. Like, that's still to this day. That's the only time I've ever read from a teleprompter, which is incredibly—

I mean, I get Ron Burgundy. I understand his pain. They could have put anything in there, and I would have said it. So you didn't do any PBC on boxing with Fox? No. I did not. Just UFC. I did not.

Just UFC. So they auditioned me, and I'm sure they were like, well, she is definitely not cut out to be an anchor, but knows her shit, so let's see how she does as a reporter. And then when it went to ESPN, because Contender Series didn't start until the ESPN era, correct? No, it was

before. It was on Fight Pass only. That's right. Yeah. That's right. Back in the old school, it was 90, I'm not exaggerating, 97 degrees where you see me doing those interviews in this hallway, 97 degrees and full of marijuana smoke in the first few weeks when they were just letting Snoop do his thing. Oh, it was incredible.

What a time to be alive. Reminds me of the studio. What a time. I was hoping for more of a cloud when I walked in, to be honest. Our cameramen have all, you know, vaped and ingested edibles instead of smoking right in front of us. They're very strategic in their intake, you know.

Big fans of these guys. Everyone looks very mellow as I look out. Well, I mean, TikTok is very important when you're filming a show, you know. Yeah. I don't see how Luke could go, you know, Greg, I love you as a broadcaster,

but you did something most of us scumbag MMA media members will never do. And in 2013, was it Invicta three? Invicta four. Invicta four.

You took on, hey, recent BKFC fighter. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah. And I believe you submitted her in round

one. So this, you know, not footnote of your life, this in a lot of ways is most responsible for the work you're doing right now, right? I mean, you lived that life. How do you look back on that as like, oh, that was awesome and I was awesome? Or, I mean, where were you,

where was your headspace turning pro in 2013? You know, at the time, I really, I thought it was going to be off to the races. And just to see, okay, just to see what I could do in Invicted. Because, again, this is pre-Ronda. It's right before Ronda, but it's still pre-Ronda. We don't really know is this experiment of women in MMA going to be a real thing or not. Or is it just going to be like, oh, let's have Ronda and then never mind.

So it very much felt like I was at the apex of MMA for women at the time. Because Piranha and Cyborg had opened people's eyes that it's possible in a lot of ways. Yes, yes. But it hadn't taken yet. I said it before. When I first started covering MMA, they had three-minute rounds. Exactly. For women.

Like, that changed while I was covering the shit. It was, yeah, it was very, very different times. But I did envision, like, oh, I'm going to do this and I'm going to work my ass off and become an Invicted Champion. You know, I was on that card with Amanda Nunes and Paige Van Zandt and Carla Esparza and I think Jessica Penny was on it.

Like, you go down that card in particular, it's just this... All-stars. All-stars. It's awesome to see. But at the time, I thought that was it. And it was an incredible experience, and I'm glad I did it. But it is frustrating at times to not have more fights to point at in this position.

Because that's honestly the biggest critique I get. What happened after that fight, before you started your family, was there ideas for a second fight? Oh, I was already in camp. Yeah, I was already, I think I'd signed a contract. I at least verbally agreed to my next fight. And, you know, my joke that I continue to just beat to death is that I had to pull out because my husband didn't.

Oh, wow. That's a very MK-friendly joke. Luke, to be fair, that's a joke. She's right at home. Let me listen to you. She's right at home. With that in mind, how are your DMs these days? You used to post.

Oh, God. So let's back up a step. You used to post these guys. They'd be sending, like, you know, the worst dick pics and, like, pitches to you. I mean, should we celebrate these? No, no. But then she would take it, then she would like dunk on it and then post it.

I'm imagining they haven't stopped. No. No? No, they haven't stopped. I mean, they've gotten less creative. I was always the creative ones. There's just dongs now. That I could like, yeah, it's just dicks.

That's like his fucking DMs too. I don't think you can prove that. But it is wild to me. Wait, wait, wait, what? He's always telling me that I've got viewers sending me their sticks, and they know our rules. I literally tell people on air, I'm like, yo, send your dick pics to Brian. Just send them.

Just say no, no stick pics. There was a guy for a while, and I absolutely loved it, where he would send me a dick pic every day, but it was a picture of someone named Dick. You're way too positive about the first half of the sentence. He was so charming. I'm going to do this to you. This is going to be great.

You better let me finish. It was a picture of someone named Dick, so it would be Dick Van Dyke or Dick Traney. It was hilarious, and I really genuinely looked. I'm like, oh, I wonder what my dick pic is for today. That guy I appreciated. Was that you, BC? Was that you?

That was not. Was it your burner account? You know what's interesting about the dichotomy of our characters, Luke, is the me on screen is the exact opposite of me in real life, and the you on screen is the exact opposite of you in real life. That's true. You know what I mean? You're unbearable in real life.

I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I have to tolerate you, too. Yeah, that is also true. So you got a first-round submission against Cassie, Rob. Did you take on any damage? What happened?

How much did that, like, shit? I'm a badass. It's weird. You know, I have some very clear memories. I'm probably more proud of the fight before that, the amateur title that I won, because it was a war, and I had my elbow popped but didn't tap and the ref didn't see it

and kind of like continued on. Very Noguera of you, I like that. Yeah, I almost knocked her out with a body kick, but she managed to, she did the whole like, ah, and I just wasn't, you know, 105, I don't pack a lot of heat in these hands, so I couldn't quite get her out of there, but it was an absolute war

and it was the first time I'd ever fought or even had a Spart or whatever, someone taller than me at 105. She was 5'7", 105. I'm very tall for 105. Yeah. And I was like, oh, this bitch is huge. Not huge, but why are her arms so long?

Did you, who cornered you for that? That would have been, let me think about this. James Krause and Tim, maybe? Elliot? Tim Elliot? This is a long time ago. But I know James did because I remember hearing his voice, like, in certain times. Oh, giving instruction.

Yeah, and like when she had me in the arm bar. And yeah, it was cool too because like it was right as he was transitioning from a teammate to kind of... He wasn't yet a coach on the team, but in that camp in particular, like he helped me figure out some strategy for what would work against her.

And the body kick was something that he and I worked on a lot. And so I remember him saying, like, that was a really cool moment for him because he was like, it was the first time I, like, kind of had a game plan for someone. And we worked on it, and then it played out in a fight. So what's the goal here? You're trying to get on UFC pay-per-views?

I mean, that's the ultimate goal. But the immediate goal is to be on UFC Fight Nights. Yeah, I would like to do that very much so. How realistic is that? Very. Oh, it is? Yeah, very. Can you share to what extent you've gotten feedback

from the folks who are in charge of production about how you've done with Contender Series? I think they've been pleasantly surprised. I did an audition, because this is the part of stuff that people don't realize. I've had a lot of failures. Outwardly, it's like, oh, this meteoric rise or whatever,

but there's been a lot of stuff that's happened back behind the scenes where people have been like, oh, we're never going to do that. We would never do that. Or like, why would we ever, you wouldn't fit in that position. Or, okay, we'll give you an audition. And then I fucking bomb the audition or whatever the case may be.

So it took a lot to get that spot on the Contender Series. And I knew that first show with Paul that I had to like, it couldn't just be pretty good it couldn't just be like oh she was she was okay you had to throw a no-hitter I had to I had to I had to I had to and I'm not saying it was perfect but I feel like I achieved what I wanted to achieve and uh yeah I think as a result of that, they've seen me grow. And I think them giving me the road to UFC, I don't want to say it was a test, but to be the only color commentator, now John Gooden, he knows as much as any, you know, so in many ways, like he provided a lot of support.

Seems like a gentleman too. Like if I was in a foreign country and got shit blasted, blackout drunk, and I committed a felony, I would want him to make sure I got back to my hotel room. Yes, he's that guy. But also, I will say this about him. If you're out there drunk. He's a little bit more

he's less of the bow tie in person than you might imagine. He's a little saucy. He's a little saucy. He's a little saucy. In a good way. Does this mean in 2023 we'll see you doing fight nights? I can't make any

declarative statements at the time, but I feel very optimistic about it. Take the over on that? Yeah. That'll be fun. Holy shit. Wow. That would be truly a monument. I don't know. What does that mean to you?

It's hard. It's certainly an upgrade to what you've been doing, although you've been doing great things. What would that mean to you? Is that fulfillment? What is that exactly? I think about that a lot, and it's a weird question. Did you ever watch that movie, the kids' movie, Soul?

Oh, the Pixar one. Yes. Yes. With Jamie Foxx. That movie made me weep. And it actually made my, he was probably six or seven, six at the time. Even my son was crying. Like it's, it's, it's a beautiful movie. It's a beautiful movie. And it really made me think about like, I'm going to get choked up here. If I, if I get to this thing that I think is the apex that I think is like everything I want going to get choked up here. If I, if I get to this thing that I think is the apex that I think is like everything I want it to be, am I, am I really going to feel that way about it? You know what I mean? Like, or is it the moments like this, the journey and getting there? That's really the thing that I love. And that is the truth.

So it doesn't, it depend on what your why actually is. Have you been able to look inward enough and realize like above all else, what is the reason you're willing to knock on doors, have the belief that things that haven't been done in a while can be possible or have never been done can be possible? Like what at the end of the day is your why in this game? My why for what I'm trying to do

started out very, very much about myself and my self-drive. Like I'm an incredibly driven, A-type, perfect grades, summa cum laude, like I've always been ridiculously, annoyingly like that. However, once I started doing it and started seeing how much it meant, like I just, I didn't, I had no idea how much it would mean to not just women. Like I have so many, just the other day, and I always cut them out and I have like a little folder in my phone that I stick them in. This dad texted me and he's like, or messaged me on Instagram and he said, you know, I'm from Ireland, like you don't know me, but I just,

I love what you're doing and being able to do it in such a male dominated industry and do it with grace and have a sense of humor and like, just be one of the guys. Like I just, I would give anything for my daughter to grow up and be like you. And I'm like, when people, when someone says something like that is,

that's mind blowing to me. So now, and for a while now, for a long while now, my wow really is to, I'm not saying I'm going to, like, shatter some sort of glass ceiling, but I want to fucking, I want to crack it. I want to put a big old crack in it if I can do that so that someone with a UFC title around their belt and with, you know, the credentials, whatever, can smash it. I've actually never asked you your why.

What is it? Not only is that inspiring, but that's how my dog acts. As soon as she gets outside, like, to someone else's mailbox, she's like, I want people to know I was here so I can relate to that. That's a great question. And I think your why has to be absolute. Obviously, there's other factors. Like, we all want to get paid. We all want people to think we're cool.

The money is nice. All that is great. And look, at the end of the day, taking care of my family is the most important thing above all. But what's my real why for working this hard is because in my 20s, there were times in my life that I punted life and said, okay, I understand now that I have underachieved, that I gave it away. It's my fault. But I know at the end of the day, no one needs to tell me, I know at the end of the day I could have been a contender.

I know I could have done something. This, no, never could have guessed this. Calling fights, never could have guessed that. But even if it was just being a nationally known writer, I knew I had something to give. And my backstory is all crazy like every one of our stories are. But, you know, at some point, you know, the good Lord decided that I could be pulled out of the muck and that there was a second chance. And I am forever driven not to let that chance go.

That from hell or high water, obviously it helps when you're fighting to keep the lights on, which at times in our careers, that's what it's been, right? Fighting to pay the rent. And that all is a great motivator. But I cannot let this thing end without giving everything I had. And even if it means getting as close to the flame and getting fired or, or fucking up or just straight up proving that you can't do it at the end of the day, when you think you can, I'm willing to stand out on that, on that, uh, on that ledge and do that because, um, something was birthed and I think it's inside of all of us, which takes a while to figure out,

and sometimes we don't get there. But I got there, and this thing's going to fly. It's like, you know, it's been a wild ride, but I'm Sully Sullenberger at the end of the day. I'm going to land that fucking plane right in the Hudson, like right there. First you're going to drive it into the geese. Absolutely.

Then you're going to put it on the Hudson. Yes. So, you know, Luke, that's what it's about. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's the thing. It's like, I'm not looking for a fight. I don't even have a fight in my, if I had a life box rec page, I don't even have life fights in that regard.

But, you know, I've been fighting my whole life, Luke, okay? And if you corner me like a wounded a wounded animal i will fucking kill you all right and that's that's actually not a message to motivate anybody that's a threat to you directly okay you cross me and i am okay all right that's the escalation fucking it's the same thing yes no seriously but can you identify with that a little bit i can't yeah if i had to you know to the extent i have the similar kind of feeling. Yeah, yeah, I would just say I didn't. I had a weird childhood. You know, I didn't have like the worst childhood, but it was not awesome.

I never felt like I was good at anything. I just want to be good at something, truly. And I don't know. I've often found the things I like, I can be better at the things I don't like. It's hard for me to swallow and do work that I'm uninterested in. But if I like it, I can tend to just pedal to the metal. You want to feel like there was a purpose,

Luke. You want to feel like you lived for a reason. Yeah, I want to produce things that people find value in. Truly, that's really about it. I want to entertain people. That's all it is. This is another angle. I could be doing community theater instead of doing this bullshit podcast, but I. I want to entertain people. That's all it is. This is another angle. I could be doing community theater. Instead, I'm doing this bullshit podcast.

But I just want people to feel something. Isn't that feeling? You've got a very community theater vibe. That feeling may be that they don't respect me and they never will and I'm just that clown to them. But I don't know if I'm insecure enough or driven enough, but I need them to feel what I'm offering, okay? Now, that may sound like I need a restraining order, but I'm not necessarily going that road. Is that road open? It's possible, but I'm not going down that road.

Okay, glad you clarified that. Thank you. Thank you. I will say, though, you know one part about the— and no one gives a fuck about our troubles, but I just will say one part that is quite the downside, the travel. I was just going to bring that up. The travel is being away from my daughter.

I fucking hate it. My dogs, I feel that. I feel that when I'm not with them. You're a mother. What about your kids? You feel that. I from my daughter, I fucking hate it. My dogs, I feel that. I feel that when I'm not with them. You're a mother. What about your kids? You feel that. I love my kids and my wife. You're like, I'm a motherfucking cat, bro.

I'm saying the whole, you know, Reggie Jackson, my cat. Reggie Jackson's the man. I wondered why you went with your dogs. Because I love all of my people. His dog is extremely sweet, though. It's an unusually sweet dog. Do you feel that same? The travel?

Yeah, no. I hate it. The travel's insane. In fact, truth be told, like, I always wondered what my limit was, you know, because another thing that I would attribute to my success is I just, you ask me to do it, I'll do it. Like, opportunity presents itself, yes. Just say yes to everything.

Yeah, that's a problem. And then you find yourself, like, wow, I'll do it. Like opportunity presents itself. Yes. Just say yes to everything. Yeah. And then you find yourself like, wow, I really, this summer during contender series, I found my limit. I found my limit and it involved me in a puddle of tears on FaceTime with my husband. I can't do this. I just want to come home. Why am I doing this? What is this all for? Am I just following a selfish lead? Exactly, am I doing this for me? Right, or am I just telling myself I'm just feeding the family when the family would probably be just as happy

if I was selling insurance, right? That's the hardest part for me is I'm not feeding my family with this. My husband is the breadwinner. I mean, I make a great living now and I'm proud of that. And that means more to me than I thought it would. Like I hadn't been an earner in a while before I got married, but the reality is that if my job

went away tomorrow, it wouldn't matter. So it all, it automatically feels more selfish because it's not financially necessary for my family. So then I really have to sit back and say, why am I doing this? What is it about? Is it ego driven? Is it not ego driven? What will it mean to my son and to my family? And how can I make sure that I don't forsake one for the other while I go down? And by the way, getting that right, figuring out when you can do that. It's not so obvious sometimes. It's not so, it's not so easy. It's a gray area and you would try to make it white or black enough to feel good at the end of the day,

but I don't know if we ever can feel good, but I think as long as you got your things balanced and you got your priorities right, which you seem to have, then you'll be okay, but what you're saying right there, I definitely feel that. My son makes all the difference.

He's eight, and he'll be nine in December, and he always talks me off the ledge. He's such a, he's such a smart kid for his age. He can be a little shit. Like all of them can, but he, when he,

he's very emotionally in tuned, especially to me, I think. And he can tell, especially during contender series, when it gets to be like that third, fourth week, I always like this analogy.

You know, when you go in the ocean, the first wave comes and you're just like, you go in the ocean, the first wave comes and you're just like waiting in the ocean. The first wave comes and you're like, whew,

this is so fun. We're in the ocean. And the second wave comes and you're like, ooh, this is still fun. This is cool. And then that third one

comes a little sooner than you thought it would. And now you're trying to get your balance. And then you're like, oh, okay. And then that fourth one's there and you're just like,

whoa. This is like, you're describing doing mushrooms. I can relate to that. I don't know about that but it's definitely contender series like the first couple weeks are fine and then week five and then I'm doing my youtube channel and all it like it it's too much but point being my son sat me down uh he literally pulled me aside and he's like come here he pulled me into his room and he shut the door and he goes, I'm going to choke up. He goes, he goes, mom, he's like, you don't need to feel bad about being gone. I know what you're doing is super important. He goes, you're the first female commentator in the history of

the UFC. I need to tell him about Kathy Long. Even Kathy Long would be like, you're fine. Just let them keep talking. I actually had a great conversation with Kathy Long. She's great. Yeah. She's amazing. Oh, I, right after it happened, she and I talked on the phone. We'd never met before. I just hit her up. I was like, our names are getting mentioned a lot together. I want to know you. We talked on the phone for three hours.

It could have been seven. Three hours straight. I love that woman. Could you illuminate us? What does she feel like she gave to this weird business? Because she was a fighter before that, right? It is. I like to think of her as like the female Chuck Norris of the 80s and 90s.

She was doing stunt work in movies. She was a multiple-time champion kickboxer. I mean, she was a badass way before women were badasses in combat sports. She is a real pioneer. Like, that woman deserves that title. And I kind of sheepishly called her up because, honestly, there was a part of me that felt bad that some of the headlines kept reading first.

And I wanted to be like, listen, I know that you're the first, and I am not taking away from that. And she was really sweet. She's like, listen, they only had me on one show, and I barely talked. She's like, and then she just ran me through. Bill Wallace wouldn't stop burping. That's why. She's like, listen, they only had me on one show and I barely talked. She's like, and then she just ran me through. Bill Wallace wouldn't stop burping. That's why. She did.

What was the, Jim, my brain doesn't work anymore. Brown, the greatest ball player of all time. She has sworn me to secrecy on many a story surrounding that one show which I want to say declaratively was not under the Zufa banner.

Right. SCG. It sounded like quite the experience. And the one thing- Well, when we do our Only Pipes after show, we can tell the rest. Yes. Yeah, fair enough.

The one thing that I will say that never really crossed my mind, and she was like, Laura, you have to understand, this was so far before the internet. The sport did not exist exist so ask me as a striker when I'd ever even been exposed to jujitsu and I was like oh my god you probably she goes no I had no idea what I was looking at none of course I'm a striker of course I can call shots but like

it was this weird freakish thing and like I'm expected to say intelligent things about it and she's like I didn't know I had no idea what they were doing on the ground because no one knew what jujitsu was and I thought oh my god that must have been absolutely terrifying to be this well-respected martial artist just be thrown in this situation like here talk about this and you're like no one's ever seen it before. How are you supposed to talk about it? The 90s were fucking wild. How are you supposed to talk about it? There's nothing.

You know, when my kid was born, I went on like, because you know, you'd be up at 3 a.m. just doing whatever the fuck. And I would started watching movies. I was like,

I'm going to watch early 90s movies. They're violent as shit. Yeah, Bloodsport. Right? There was something happening in the early 90s. Don't you feel like that? I loved it.

I lived it. I loved it. I mean, you're not that much younger then. So your Christian parents let you watch blood sport? Oh, yeah. My Catholic parents let me watch. Yeah, so you were what? Middle school in the 90s

at least, right? Yeah, but I had an older brother and I was like his shadow. So really, I lived the life four years older than I am. What year did you graduate high school? I graduated 2001. 2001, okay. But I lived the music.

I lived the MTV, the fashion, whatever, from four years ahead of me. For your life and your feelings, what is the most 90s song? For me, Semi-Charmed Life by Third Eye Blind is the most 90s song. I hate that song so much. I know, but it is so 90s. Curse that word that came out of your mouth. I'm going to go sublime. What I Got.

What I Got is a great pick. Alanis Morissette. It's like rain. Jack Little Pill sold a lot of records. Blind Melon. Oh, yeah. No Rain. Oh, yeah.

What's his face? He died, though. Shannon Hoon. Shannon Hoon, yeah. Wow, that was, yeah. What's his face? He died, though. Shannon Hoon. Shannon Hoon, yeah. Hoon, yeah. You know, I got a lot of swords. You know what I'm saying? A lot of them were dull, though, but a couple times.

Did you go to concerts in the 90s? No, I was too young. I was too young, and I had protective parents. I did go to, like, I went to a concert that was, like, a festival before festivals were a thing. So Bon Jovi was there and I was front row and I thought that was really cool because he like winked at me. And I was like 17.

But no, no, not a big, I went to Dave Matthews. I take that back. I went to Dave Matthews. How was that? A lot of white people there, right? It was a lot of white people. And I was not enough of a Dave Matthews like died in the wolf fan where I was like yes bring on this 11 minute you know it's depraneous jazz solo this fantastic violin

my brother went to UVA when Dave Matthews band blew up yeah he was always like oh I see them out in town in Charlottesville I'm like I, I don't care. Yeah. I really don't care. Okay, well, back then, though, they were good. Yeah, they were really good back then. If I'm being honest, I didn't like them. Hey, while we still have some time left, let's talk some headlines. All right. All right. Jon Jones, you think he's going to come back at all?

I do. You do? Okay. I do. Now, with that caveat in mind, does he actually win the UFC heavyweight title? Whoever that's against in whatever order, but by the end of whenever he comes back, does he have the title? It looks like if you're a magic eight ball, what would you be saying?

Yes. You think so? I do. Tell me why. I do. I think that his skill set was extraordinary at light heavyweight, and I think that it's been such a long process. I would have been more worried about him rushing to heavyweight.

I feel like he's been sitting in this heavyweight body for a while now, and the dynamism of his striking at light heavyweight, bring that into a heavyweight setting, and I feel like it's going to be really difficult for people to get... I love thinking about him facing a Cyril Gaughan, but then you're like, well, Jon Jones can wrestle. I mean...

What do you make of the... Okay. What is your best explanation for the relative decline of his performance at light heavyweight towards the end there I think for him it has always been about stuff that's outside of the octagon I really do I think that to some degree you're naturally going to have competitors that start to learn how to fight you better right over time people are going to get smarter about how they approach a john jones fight so i think we saw dominic reyes at the peak um really understanding how to not you know get fast get past that force

field that he puts up and shout out majetta Heta as well as well. Yes. Yes. Tiago Santos, another, I think part of it is, is people figuring John out a little bit, but I really attribute most of it to just him not being fully dialed in. I will say if he can take that much time off from the sport and while the game has moved on and evolved, it will be extraordinary. And to just jump right back in and claim a title, it's not just that he did it in a different weight class. All the time he's missed, and to be still ahead of the game, it's not that I'm skeptical of his abilities, but just that alone is difficult for any human mortal to do. Do you, in your mind, see, I'm taking some, I'm an interviewer.

Here we go. I'm going to ask the questions now, Luke. Show us that skill set. In your minds, if he comes back at heavy weight and we feel confident that he is clean and this it feels like a fresh start in some ways cleanish i mean look yeah i mean am i confident he's clean no no i'm not but i don't care i mean you know at least one of our hosts might be on delta eights at the moment it's just it's just the way of the world i guess my question is and i, because I have this argument slash discussion with DC sometimes,

it's a hard one to have with him in particular, and I can understand why. I understand that, yeah. Do you allow him to remove the asterisk from his GOAT status if he does it at heavyweight? To me, he doesn't have an asterisk. I don't buy it. To me, even with the picograms, he's the GOAT.

If he wins the heavyweight championship in any form, short of a robbery or something, he's not only going to already be the GOAT, it's with a bullet. It's where, unfortunately for guys like Habib, GSP, Anderson, I mean the greatest of the greats, they will now look up at the finest of the farm animals, that giant-ass GOAT. You know, Honey Boo Boo Wild Thing was on to something when she was calling him.

She certainly might have been. But, yes, I mean, if he comes back and – don't you remember that was on his phone? No. When he got pulled over. So he got pulled over and, like, if you look at – That was who was on his phone? That was how it was listed in the phone, yeah. Okay, I've got a better question for you.

That's a good pet name. I pull. I got deep pulls, all right? You remember, of course, what was it, October of 2018, when Habib and Conor set a new UFC pay-per-view record, I believe at 2.4 million buys, besting the 1.65-ish that Conor and Nate had done in their rematch. The next great pay-per-view fight that could beat Conor versus Habib

are the two fighters in question even in the UFC and active at the moment? What's the next great crossover slam dunk pay-per-view that's going to rock the records? Do we even have those fighters right now? It's John and Francis to me. That can do over two mil? We have argued together. I think heavyweights, people love heavyweights.

Exactly. I mean, don't get me wrong. I think it would sell gangbusters. Raiders Stadium, bro. Put it in the Raiders football stadium, okay? Go about 80 grand to fans. I think the not having John for a long time creates this, like, buildup of anticipation.

If it was any John, if it was the second John Jones fight after he was returned, no. But the one where he was returned, where he returns, and if it's with an opponent like Francis, I don't think it does that with Stipe. But if it's Francis, I think it could. It's a huge fight. I mean, there's no denying that.

All right. How long do you think Makachev holds the belt? In other words, who is his toughest contender? These are difficult questions. Yeah, of course. Well, we have a UFC commentator here. All right, I'll challenge her. Who's smashing through glass ceilings.

She's trying to climb out of this couch. She can't answer these questions. You can get lost in that ass cushion right there. Based on what I saw in Abu Dhabi, I think he's going to have that title for a while. He might, right? He might have that motherfucker for a while. A while.

I couldn't. You know, it was funny. I was telling him there was this YouTube channel that was taking people's predictions pre-fight, and we both picked Makachev. But, like, even us, we were saying things like, you know, Charles has much better striking ahead of time, which, again, ahead of the fight, that was, all the evidence indicated that.

And then he goes in there and then just pulls all the pins out of the grenade. Yeah. I just could, I was like, what the fuck? When he lit Charles up in the first couple of seconds, I was like, oh shit. You know what? Javier Mendes, who I

love, he'll say things like, dude, Makachev's the most complete fighter ever. And you're like, Jav. And you're like, Jav, I love you, but that's crazy. And then he goes and does that shit. You're like, that fucking guy Javier might be telling the truth. So that's when I start to really

get on these hype trains with people. When you get the gym lore, it's like the Bo Nickel thing. I know we have virtually no footage on Bo Nickel, but it's the stories that people from his camp tell you behind closed doors,

off camera, in sheer honesty. Like in his own way, he's a one of one like Brock Lesnar. Like in his own way, he's a one of one like Brock Lesnar. Like in his own way, he's something just potentially extra special that we haven't seen. Could that possibly happen? Could Bo Nickel be that new hope? Episode four?

Young Luke, that absolute bitch. Young Luke Skywalker. And so was his father. Have you noticed how Star Wars made the most important figures whiny bitches? Anakin Skywalker? a hoe. A complete hoe. Yeah, completely. Luke Skywalker won't stop crying.

But when Luke put on the black in episode six, though, he was a bad. Now, when he turns into Darth Vader, the whole game changes, right? He becomes like the real one. But dude, did you notice the both? There's a lot to unpack there. Anakin and Luke are two absolute whores. Like, I feel like I'm more man than Luke Skywalker Yeah, you are

Do you think they did that intentionally to make it less intimidating? Like, oh, the average man can identify with this bitch Yeah, but isn't Anakin supposed to be all fucking special on his midichlorian levels? He's got so many midichlorians He outsmarted that absolute bitch, Waddle, that flying bug Hold on, let's go through this I'm so out of my depth right now on this This will come out after the fight, so there's no way to get it up before then Bitch, why all that flying bug? Hold on, let's go through this. I'm so out of my depth right now on this.

This will come out after the fight, so there's no way to get it up before then. But for 281, your thoughts on the main event, who's going to win? I mean, this is not timely content. It's not. I just want to hear it for the record. Okay, for the record. I can ask.

I, this is a fascinating fight to me for so many reasons. And I, I mean, I could geek out about this fight forever. When you watch their kickboxing competitions, you have to keep in mind a couple of things. First of all, and I had not really put two and two together about this. And this is not, someone's going to turn this into a headline like Laura Sanko thinks. That's not an indication of my prediction. It's an interesting thing to take into consideration. When Alex Pereira fought Israel Adesanya, Izzy had, in Glory Kickboxing, Izzy

had close to 100 kickboxing fights. Alex had around 20. So when you take into consideration that a relatively green Alex Pereira put on some really good performances, although I do actually think he lost the first one, but regardless, very close.

It was competitive, yeah. Very competitive. When you think, man, his camp told me, because his coach, not Glover, of course, but Plinio Cruz was my coach when I lived here in New York City. No way. So I called him up and I was like, bro, give me the scoop here. And he said, Laura, people don't understand

how green Alex was when they first fought. Now, obviously, he's very green in MMA, and we can all agree that this is a different sport, different, to me, range. Range is the key in this one. Izzy has got to keep this where he's comfortable in the range. But I think Alex is going to pressure him in a way that not many people have had the psychology to do.

Or have been ballsy enough but can can sell it like where, I mean, if you cross that line against Izzy, normally he's going to counter you and make you pay. And that's why people don't tend to do that. Alex does seem to have this villain at the end of the video game type of feel to him that he's like, he's a motherfucker. He is. Right.

I mean, you see that style and swag he's putting out, you know, Poetan, Poetan, right? Luke, I think that means stonehands. It means stonehands. All right, 135. Yeah. Let's assume Aljo's out until June, and I'm going to make something up here.

UFC wants to create an interim title. They might not. But if they did, who should fight for it? Oh, God, that's so difficult. Yeah, that's the name of the game. It's an unforgiving spoiler. I don't hate, I don't hate, I'm going to get absolutely crucified

if I put Sean O'Malley in it. No, you're not. He's the fucking number one contender. First of all, that's the pick, okay? So, yeah. I think it's Sean O'Malley. You can pick who he, I think it's a monster fight.

Monster fight. You wouldn't go Cejudo though. Is he really? He's though. Is he really? He's cringe. Is he really? I love Henry. I actually, off camera. I respect him, yeah.

I love Henry. He is so different than his personality off camera. He's the greatest. But I guess, is he coming back for sure, for sure? He's in the testing pool. He seems like he, I think he probably would for the right fights yeah so i don't want to see him versus sean necessarily why not

why don't you like okay so let's back up a step you didn't find what sean did against peter yan all that convincing oh no i i i was one of the few people who thought he won the fight i had no problem with him winning that fight, largely because I have a deep understanding of judging now. But obviously a very close fight. I guess I get more excited personally by Sean O'Malley Cheeto, and that's probably my bias toward, like, I want Cejudo to actually be back

before we start putting him in title pictures. You're right. You make a great point. I would love that fight. Okay. So then let me see here. At 185, if Izzy wins, he almost certainly goes to light heavyweight. He doesn't even know who else would be there. But if he loses, it creates an interesting kind of conversation.

Do you do the rematch if Izzy loses because Izzy has been this undefeated champion, or do you go to someone else? Because if Robert Whitaker ends up beating Paul Acosta, dude, Robert Whitaker's a bad matchup for Poiton. It's funny that Izzy has two wins over Robert, but if it was Robert versus Alex, I would feel a lot more comfortable just picking Robert. 100%.

So what's USC going to do if that happens? If Izzy loses, what do you do? I think you have to do a rematch. I think that that's what they would do. So you said no. No, I think you slide Robert Whitaker in there because then if he beats Pineda, the Robert Whitaker-Adestanya trilogy

suddenly has huge marketability and need when right now I don't think you do need it. That would make you need it. And then in Adestanya, Poetown rematch is always going to be their title or no title. You don't need a title, but you know, I'm, I'm just a scumbag, you know, you know what I mean? A scumbag MMA media member, which, you know, brings me to probably the hardest question I could produce right now that I

don't know if you're going to answer it. Go, go. All right. Bring it. Luke said, I wouldn't ask her this. Bring it. It's a dick move. Dana White calls you up and says, look, you know, you've been doing great work.

Okay. But I'm launching. I need you to do a better Dana impression. You know, yeah. Yeah. This kid, you know, well, yeah. No. You know, hey, what's up guys?

No. You know, he's like, I'm launching the Slapdick League, and it's the biggest thing ever. It's going to take over the world, and I need you to be the face of it. Slapdick? I'm sorry. What's it called, guys? Do you know the title?

Slapwhite. Slap. I think. No, it's Dana White's, because, I mean, this is the worst name. Dana White's Power Slap. Oh, okay, Power Slap. He's like, I need you to be the face of power slap. Like, I need, like, you cannot be seen in public

without a power slap T-shirt or sweatshirt on. You will be power slap. Your life is power slap. You tell him, like, hey, that's really nice of you at all, but that shit's going to fail, and I'm going after real fight calling. Okay, moving forward. I probably wouldn't call him a failure in the conversation

or protect him as a failure. Okay, at the very least, would you say, a failure in the conversation or protect him as a failure. Okay, at the very least, would you say, you know, there's better ways to invest your money. There just is, you know? I would just say, Dana, you know, thank you so much for the opportunity, but I think probably someone else would be better suited.

You know, that was not an easy question. That was an honest rebuttal. Yeah. I respect that. Yeah. It's not my thing. It's not anybody's thing, but that's fine. Okay, that's fine.

I'm also not, like, I'm not mad at, I don't know. I'm not as mad at it as some people are, but it's not my thing. Yeah, I don't, yeah, I hate it, actually. I think it's indefensible, but what are you going to do? All right, a couple more headlines. Hey, what should Kayla Harrison do? Oh, man. It's not a UFC topic, but it is always kind of UFC related with her a little bit. What the fuck is she supposed Harrison do? Oh man. It's not a UFC topic but it is always kind of UFC

related with her a little bit. What the fuck is she supposed to do? I wish she would come here. At 145? Yes. I mean we've got enough. There's an answer that needs to happen first. They need to create the UFC women's heavyweight division which is 135 to 155. Yes. That's his idea.

I think it's actually not a bad idea. And then Kayla comes in because she doesn't have to worry about cutting down. And anybody who knows that they're a flyweight or strawweight is not going to go up to 135. But everybody, 135 is, there's no division anyway, so you just make it one big thing. I've brought that up before. Not as specifically as you stated it, but the whole idea that there is no catch-all for these athletes that can't make 135, because let's be real, 145 is not a thriving division. So really, if you can't make 135, which I'm sorry, but like there are a lot of athletic women who can't make 135. That is not a, that's not a very

big weight. Not body shaming here, that's reality. That is reality. And you already have a small pool to pull from to make competitive fights anywhere. Yeah. So to have a catch-all where you could pull in some, because I remember Invicta had a handful of 55er fights.

It was great stuff. Okay, but with my romantic scenario, and by the way, people say, no way Cyborg would ever step foot in the UFC octagon again. I bet you they would

for a women's heavyweight championship. That's me talking, not her. But here's the deal. How is that too much of an advantage for somebody like Kayla, who's basically a 55er, who said in the right circumstance she can make 45? If she's going in there against people that have been Bantamweights

for most of their life, is that too much? Or is this just what heavyweight is? I mean, look at heavyweight in boxing or MMA. If you're a small heavyweight and you're facing a super heavyweight, it's going to feel like two to three divisions apart at times. It's going to be massive. I mean, that's the game you play in a catch-all division, and they would know that going in.

To your point, we see that sometimes in the men's heavyweight division where people look massively different than their opponents do. Randy Couture versus Brock Lesnar. Sometimes we're surprised by it, and sometimes we're not. That is very true. Okay. You might be surprised. What are you doing?

You're doing Shobb Miss here? It was a comedy special. You're doing Shobb Miss here? Showtime branded. I promote all the great Showtime shows. You might be surprised. Red Shoe Diaries. Like, you know. I did like Red Shoe Diaries. Morning Combat, Strike Force Classics. That was another good show that we did during the pandemic. You got some TV money for that. You did get some TV money.

All right. We have to get out of here. So I'm sorry that you had to endure this, but I think, you know, I think it was wholesome. It was very wholesome. No, I appreciate you guys having me.

What can you plug? What would you like to plug? Well, I definitely want to plug a first and foremost Alta. Cause that I'm super passionate. Right. That used to be called a wimp to warrior. Yes.

Rebrand. Alta is a better name. Way better. Didn't E. Casey Lydon, the great journalist do that? Yes. To me, like I, I love being involved with them because to me it's very similar to my journey into MMA.

I did it for psychological, mental health reasons, the training, and then I sort of just got sucked into fighting. But training MMA can be life-changing on, in, on so many levels and to have them take it where the everyday guy, the accountant, whoever can experience a little bit of what it's like and, and get that benefit of the sport. I love, love, love it. I love it. Uh, what about your YouTube stuff? The one-on-one one-on-one baby.

Yeah. Who produces that? Uh, bet three, six, five. So it's a, it's a sponsored channel. I have a, yeah, I have a deal with them and I couldn't tell if that was a UFC property or not. So I got the connection through the UFC. So they're the biggest betting partner of the UFC outside of the United States. They're big in Europe, right?

Outside of the United States, they are, I mean, by far, they dwarf every other platform. They're like Hasselhoff in Germany. They are like. Pre or post-Burger King. I think they have like 70 million subscribers. It's a huge, I had no idea. I had no concept because they're not, they don't have a presence here. So, yeah, it came through the UFC,

so that's why it has like a UFC feel to it. But thank goodness because, yeah, I can't handle the editing. You'd get nothing from me. All right, I got one more question that Luke said, don't ask her. Do not fucking ask her if you have any respect for yourself. I can't wait. This is almost certainly a lie. It's been a long debate between us.

Look, some people have gone on record and make declarations, and it just becomes fact. Ioana Young-Jacek once said, Brett Okamoto is the best-looking MMA journalist in the game today. I really like Brett, but should we update that? This is so fucking awkward, Brian. Why would you do that to me? That was the point.

I'm sorry. Dude, he just rolls a fucking grenade in the room. One of you assholes jump on it. I try to get my best pitch over the plate, but sometimes it misses. Sometimes it misses, no. One of you assholes jump on it. You know, I try to get my best pitch over the plate, but sometimes, you know, sometimes it misses, right? You know, sometimes it misses, yeah. Let's just sit here and compare all our peers, shall we? That won't get weird.

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure John has other shirts besides the blue one. I'm sure he does. Well, I'm partners with him now, so my career is going great. Yeah, we could run, you know. Glad you're here, Brian. Thank you, though. Thank you for this. And all seriousness.

I love Brett. I love you, and I love you. I mean, Brett's handsome as shit. He is. He certainly is And all seriousness. I love Brett. I love you, and I love you. I'm really glad. Brett's handsome as shit. He is. He certainly is. You know what I mean? Why don't you go bang him?

How about that? Scratch that itch. Can I just be platonic friends with another male journalist? Scratch that itch that you clearly have. He's a great guy. I would love to get him on this show one day. Yeah, you could bang him right here and be good. Okay.

All right. All right. On that note, so there's one-on-one on YouTube. Yeah yeah you'll be back on contender series i will when does the next season start i never know usually summer next summer summer there you go and then maybe just maybe 2023 laura stanko ufc fight night commentator right come on brian bring it in about just maybe she's coming bring it in you know we're not gonna you know when you're when you're coming on you're coming on she's she's going for it she's coming. Bring it in. We're knocking. When you're coming on, you're coming on. She's going for it.

She's making moves. And I don't have to wish you luck because from talking to you, I know what you're made of and you're going after it. And I can appreciate your effort and your hustle in this. So great things to come. I appreciate that. They can't stop the hard work. That's right.

Congratulations. I'll be on the desk next weekend, so look for that. Only up from there. There she is. Laura Sanko, everyone. UFC pioneer. Take that, Brett.