MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Max Holloway on Volkanovski Trilogy, Khabib, Brain Health, Legacy, Aldo, and Adesanya

Episode Date: June 30, 2022

At UFC 276, Max Holloway will face defending UFC featherweight champion Alexander Volkanovski in a trilogy fight of historical significance. In this interview with Luke Thomas of Morning Kombat, Holloway discusses his view of what happened in the first two meetings with Volkanovski, how the rivalry has changed him, what might be different the third time around and why this fight is ultimately about legacy. Holloway also discusses the grueling win over Yair Rodriguez, whether he's experienced any neurological symptoms from damage, why he still believes Jose Aldo is the best featherweight of all time, the beating he handed out to Calvin Kattar, Khabib Nurmagomedov's comments about this trilogy bout, having a third fight with Dustin Poirier and what the difference is between Volkanovski and Israel Adesanya. Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit:morning kombat.store   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Well, in just a few days, arguably the most important featherweight fight maybe in UFC history, one of the most important trilogies in UFC history will take place just down the road when Alexander Volkanovski defends his title against this man, the former UFC featherweight champion and the guest here with me today, it is Max Blessed Holloway. Hi Max, how are you blessed holloway hi max how are you i'm good how you doing how's your flight in long yeah how long was the flight from uh hawaii to here uh like five and a half it's about what mine's five five yeah but i had to fly coach did you fly coach i know yeah i didn't fly coach but i knew i knew i was like are you or is max holloway

flying private no no not private not yet not private. Not yet, not yet. I mean, I think I'll be, I'm never ever going to be too bougie to go get a private. I like my money. I'd rather spend it on something like a dinner or something than a private plane, to be honest. That's fair enough. How are you feeling? I feel good. I feel, I feel like a champ.

You've done this so many times now. I wonder, like, do you still get the same feeling pre-fight every time? Does it matter what the stakes are? I mean, I'm on all every fight. I told you this before, you know, we approach every fight the same, you know. This is my first fight and this might be my last fight. So at the end of the day, we just ain't belt, no belt, whatever it is. I carry myself as a champion every fight I think I'm doing is a championship fight, you know, and this is what you got to do in this game, you know, to be the best, you got to beat the best and best is blessed. Are you going to trot up those lines with

me again? No, all the time. All the time. Let's back up a step. Before we even talk about the fight, you're, you are in a different place in your life. You're now 30 years old. You've been fighting the UFC for 10 years now, which is a long time. You got married recently, congratulations by the way. How is married life? My life is good. I mean, it's awesome, especially when you got a wife like mine, man.

She makes sure everything is good. She makes sure Minnie is good, so I mean, life's good. I love married life, you know, and she does everything. I mean, life's good. I love married life, you know, and she does everything. I mean, it's amazing. How is it when you have, like, your wife is a professional athlete as well? Like, is that challenge? What does that do for time and how your needs need to be met as well? I mean, time is, she figures out.

She's amazing, you know, and then she actually gets what i need to do all this and what comes with it and then the eating habits it's just been much better when she which with her around you know with her around and been much better so i mean she's just the greatest where does someone from hawaii go for honeymoon that's what I want to know. I don't know. I'll let you know. You didn't go yet? No, we didn't go yet. Okay. Because I told her I can't.

I was like, knowing my luck, we're going to go on top of a honeymoon, and UFC is going to be like, hey, look, you're fighting in two weeks. So I was like, I'm just going to wait. Let's just wait. And she said, yeah, let's do it. So as soon as we book it, I'll let you know. Because I keep telling her wherever she wants to go, and she just keeps telling me wherever I want to go.

And then when I say where I want to go, she's like, no, I don't want to go there. So it's like, it's where you want to go, then. You know, choose it. Happy wife, happy life. Yes, 100%. Where do you want to go, curiously? I wanted to go to Japan and stuff. But she was thinking, like, she wants to go to Japan,

but she wants to go as a family with Rush and stuff. And with friends. So my wrestling coach, he pretty much does it all. He's my cameraman. He can translate for us. He's my wrestling coach. He can be a body for me. So that guy's the man.

All right, how do you feel this time? I know you say you're feeling good, but relative to how you felt when you had the title the first time, and then the rematch was weird because it was during COVID and it was in Abu Dhabi and there was no crowd. Do you feel exactly the same in terms

of how you, a few days out ahead of this one that you did for the second or the first one? Nah, man, I feel great.

This is the best I ever felt. You felt bad for those ones? No, I just feel greater than what I felt then. Then I felt great.

I felt great the first time. I felt greater the second one. I guess I feel the greatest this one. I got five title wins. You know that. To get my sixth title win here in the ninth island against Alex,

where the first one went down, I'm back in crowds for two years. I never had a crowd. We're back here. It's going to be amazing. Go get that dub. Like I said, I've been saying, man, I just have this feeling. I've been in there with this guy for 10 rounds, Luke, 10 rounds.

I really feel like we're not going past three in this one. Why? What's so different? He's different. I'm different. I just think the training I've been doing is going to pay off in a big way, in a very big way, I think. So the training I've been doing, my game plan, the recipe that we're cooking up in this one is going to be finger-licking good.

All right, let's talk about it. So after the first fight, obviously you probably had conversations with your coaches, but did you ever have a meeting after the first fight and been like, okay, what went wrong? I know you probably feel like you may have showed your hand raised, certainly in the second one, maybe the first one, but what were you and the coaches saying? Like, why didn't it go your way? What was the assessment? I mean, the first one, I think we had a meeting in this room. I think right after the fight. I think we sat down, we talked a little while, and we wanted to figure out what was wrong. They all talked about it.

We all had ideas of what we think went wrong and where went wrong. That's what it is. That's how you get better. You confront your demons. We was confronting what we think went wrong. It was literally maybe like an hour after the fight was back here, we was at this table in this hotel, sitting down talking about like,

what we can do different, what we did different, what he did great, what I did great, what I did bad and we went from there. What makes him good? I mean, he's just a well mixed, well rounded, you know, he's well rounded, super good. I mean, I's just well-rounded. You know, he's well-rounded, super good. I mean, I might give away too much if I tell him what makes him good, you know? How about this?

What did you learn about him through the process of fighting him 10 rounds? I mean, it's not, I would say learn. I think their camp and him, they're just smart. They're super smart, you know? They played the system, especially the first fight, really good. You him, they're just smart. They're super smart. They played the system, especially the first fight, really good. They played the system really good. Kudos to them. We're here for a third time. If the first two were so decisively, we wouldn't be here for a third.

Let's talk about the second fight. You had the meeting after the first. You get the second fight. And it looked to me in the second fight, to my amateur eyes, but that is all that I have, that your stance changed. You got more upright. You didn't chase him as much. You let him come to you. In fact, I think the way you knocked him down was by virtue of that, by his forward pressure. And a lot more linear attacks up the middle.

And it worked really well. I thought you won the first round. I thought you won the second round cleanly. And I noticed after the second round, you did the bit, which was, I was like, okay, Max is cooking right now. He's in his kitchen. But the third round, things began to change. He was able to make adjustments in the middle of the fight.

I know that you probably think that you won the fight. There is certainly a case for you. But in the end, the judges didn't agree. What happened from the third round on? I mean, like you said, I mean, when you find the best, you get the best, the best two guys in there, you know, the best two teams in there. It's not only us. We've got eyes on the outside. I think he did adjustments, you know, and I guess so to the three guys seeing judge Octagon side, those, those, those little adjustments got him to fight you know so it is what it is you know it is what it was actually

I'm not gonna sit over here crying about spilled milk you know there's three guys three not guys or it could be girls whatever three people sitting ringside that decision count the most and they went the other way

so you know why get mad? You know, we cleaned it up. We, you know, we cleaned that up, the mess up. We went on and I knew we was going to find our way back somehow to the title. You know, if I had to fight two times, three times, four times, whatever it was,

we're going to be right back here. And you know, two years later, you know, year half actually, we're here and ready to go. Candidly, when the fight went to the decision and the second one, what was your level of confidence that you had won? I was like, I thought I won, you know? Like if you-

Did you think he had won any rounds? I thought maybe, I thought maybe, maybe the last round or the fourth round, I'm mixing up my rounds, I forget which one it was, but one of those rounds, for sure, I thought he won in the later rounds, you know? And, but it is what it is, you know? This shit didn't go my way.

I'm not gonna, you know, why I'm gonna pout about it or cry about it, you know? I had Dana White talked about it, you know? Like a bunch of, like a hundred UFC fighters was saying that I won the fight, so, you know, why add more fuel to the fire when you don't need to? I guess the question I'm trying to get at is, it's weird that, again, I want to be very clear, there is certainly a case for you to win, especially the second one.

The second one, the first two rounds, I don't think there's any debate that you took those. All you had to have was one more in the next three. But the judges kind of keep siding with him. What do you think they're seeing? And I know we don't know, the judges don't talk to us, but there's got to be something, right? They keep kind of orienting themselves around what he's doing is it the amount of activity he does all the fainting all the footwork all the movement what is it I wouldn't

know you know I wouldn't know I I couldn't answer for them I guess what do your coaches tell you I mean we're all kind of dumbfounded the situation to to be honest you know like we all don't know like we all looked and we're like I don't know like even after seeing the strikes after sometimes I'm like what like I don't even remember getting hit that much times you know and then I guess

or not hit that much times it's significant strikes is the thing that tripped me out I'm like how the hell is he keeping up with me in significant strikes but it's significant strikes is the thing that tripped me out. I'm like, how the hell is he keeping up with me and significant strikes? But here's what it is, you know, I'm not the guy who's counting what is a significant strike, what is a strike period.

So, you know, it's something that I think so we gotta ask them. Was your feeling after the first fight the same as the feeling after the second? Or did you have, was there a difference between the way you processed what had happened no i felt like i i felt like they both did they was both the same i feel pretty good i mean the second one had to be a little bit bigger because i even though it

didn't count as a knockdown so like i i felt like i had knockdowns in that in that second fight you know so i think what in the second was a little bit bigger, but again, it is what it was. I'm not going to complain about something that happened two years, a year and a half ago. What do the city kickboxing guys do that you call them smart? Give me an example of what makes them smart. And by the way, to be fair, I want to be clear, Volkanovski is not just a city kickboxing guy. He's a freestyle fighting, I think his academy is the name of the gym. Please forgive me if I get it wrong.

So he's got more than just that association. association yeah i just think their game planning is great i mean you look at him you look at izzy i mean the two guys that's actually doing very well with the exception of kai kai you know like kai kai france is a is a guy going out there finishing guys or whatever like and izzy is finishing guys well as well too but izzy and and alex is almost like the same fighter. They just kind of touch, touch, touch, touch, and Izzy actually has the power, the timing or whatever you want to call it, where he puts somebody down and he gets the finish. But the top two standouts of that crew is a lot of guys that touch. They're very smart, know how to play the system.

I touch you here, I touch you there, get away, touch, touch here, make it look like a big stuff that I guess that's what it is, you know. They play the system well. They got a system down to the lock, the MMA system, I guess, with the rules and stuff, and they look good. Like if you guys don't believe me, go run Izzy's and Alex's fight back-to-back. The same thing, you know, go break it down. These guys touch, touch, touch. The only difference between both of them is that Izzy actually lands something

that really hurts you and then finishes you, you know. And then, I mean, Alex finally lands something that actually hurts someone and finishes them in his last fight. But that's what I think it is. I think they're super smart at playing the system. It's interesting. People are like, oh, Alex. Did you see that fight, by the way, the Alex Degan? I saw the clip. I saw the finish, of course, but I didn't watch the full fight.

My coaches watched the fight. I asked them, do they think I need to watch it? They're like, no, it's pretty much what we thought was going to happen, happened. I was like, oh, cool. There's a lot of talk about, oh, he went for the kill. And I'm like, I don't believe that. I just think fighting you, I don't want to be disrespectful to the Green Zombie.

Fighting any of those guys is difficult. Fighting you is a completely different thing. That's why it's harder to do anything to you than it is to him. And that to me accounts for the difference. Yeah, I mean, that's any fighter. And I mean, it's harder to do certain moves against J.R. Rodriguez than it was with Cater, you know?

That's every fight. Every fight that you go to, it's a different thing, you know? Anybody who takes it as disrespect, it's like, it's not, you know? It's no disrespect to anyone. I'm a different fighter from Korean Zombie, you know, and we understand that. So my age is much younger. The miles on me is a little bit lower than Korean zombie. So I understand it, you know In in terms of this fight

Where do you derive? I want to be very clear about this. Where do you derive the motivation? Here's what I mean Some fighters like oh, I hate that guy. I don't I saw you guys shaking hands You're you're been in the game too long for that. That's not you right? Is it is it reclaiming the belt? Is it proving something to yourself? Where is your mind in terms of why you're doing this? I mean, like I said, you know, we approach every fight like it's my first and last, you know? We don't know. I'm asking what's in your heart. Like, seriously, what drives you to make sure that you, I think in your mind, right this wrong?

I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, I said it, I want to bring balance to the world, but you know, one of the main things is my son and my wife, you know, like, I spend so much time away from them, so much time in the gym, sometimes they come, sometimes they don't, so I want to show them, show to my friends, my family, my wife, my kid, this is why your husband or your dad is away from you, this is why we cannot go and watch buzz lightyear in the theaters right now because i i don't want to get sick you know this is why we can't go to the beach or there because i'm not feeling up to it because i'm hurting from training so it's just showing them that like look this this is why i did it this is all the hard work paid off right here now let's go have a honeymoon have a vacation let's go have our honeymoon, have a vacation.

Let's go catch Buzz Lightyear in theaters here. Did you see Buzz Lightyear yet? I did not. I did not. We waited. I've not seen it either. I have a three-year-old daughter. She liked the trailers.

Okay, just the same. Okay, so you have two losses to Dustin Poirier. Now, one was at 145 when you're at the very beginning of the UFC run. And then one was at 155, and he was obviously a completely different fighter. To what extent has this experience truly, demonstrably, made you better? Do you ever think about that?

Like, you've had to problem solve and win. You've had to beat Rodriguez, and you've had to beat Cater. We'll talk about that in a minute. But you had to really problem solve. You and your team had to really kind of figure this out. Do you ever look back on that and say, like, I don't know, like it did actually make us a little bit better? Yeah. Oh, for sure. I mean, every loss, every loss is only a loss if you don't learn from it, you know? Every L to me, I always say, is a learning curve, you know? And even with

the Dustin Poirier fight, you know what I mean? First things first is Alex, of course. But that's one of another fight up there, like, at 55, who knows, or 170, whatever day we might meet again, you know. Those fights wasn't too far off, you know. The first one was, whatever, he subbed me. But the second one was, like, you know, like, even Khabib thought I won that fight, you know. I mean, yeah, Khabib is another story. But, you know, I mean, yeah, Khabib is another story, but, you know, at the end of the day, yeah, you know, at the end of the day, it's,

it's just crazy, you know, I, we learned a lot, you find, you find a lot about yourself when, when you, you know, when you take an L, when you learn, you know, more than a win anytime, you know, when you're winning, and you just keep winning winning winning it's like you don't you don't have the drive to better anything or change anything you know about and if you do it in your that is amazing great for you but when you lose people really sit down and break down themselves and be like oh wow what's going on you know and look we that that that doesn't fight we came back I think we fought Edgar, right? Felt great, felt good.

And that Dustin fight didn't only help us in my fight game. It helped me with doing all kind of stuff behind the scenes. Me and my business manager and my team, we got doctors. We got all kind of stuff figured out after that fight. Just to think, if I ever wanted to go up and get bigger again, then we go do it. We go up and get bigger again, you know? Fair enough. Okay.

So then you had the fight with Calvin Cater, which was just an un... When you look back on that fight, is that, like, the best showcase of Max? How do you package that in all the things that you've done in your career? I mean... Just in the zone, man. Yeah, I career? I mean, I was in the zone. I was in the zone. I think the best package, mixed martial arts package of max had to be the a year fight for sure, 100%, because I got to show different aspects of my game in there.

But the best, that was just striking in the zone max. That was it. I don't know if it's ever going to get better than that. You know, who knows? I mean, Saturday night, not that far. So I get to answer my own question. Did you, did you have not like extra motivation to stick it to people? Cause that doesn't, you seem very family and self-centered.

And I mean that in a good way, not like a selfish way, like focused internally versus externally. But there was a certain fire that came out of you there when you were looking at the commentary table and talking to them. What was that? Where did that come from? People was like, they was calling me a journeyman. I was tripping out. I was like, wow. You know, you lost the belt and I fought the champion and things didn't go too well.

And it could have gone, a lot of people were saying my win. They just forgot about that. Like a lot of people just forgot about that. And I was just tripping out. He was talking, a lot of people was saying that this guy has the best boxing in the UFC. He was talking about it, called me, you know, he called me a freshman or whatever. And I was like, whoa. I was like, this whoa i was like this is

outrageous like this is just crazy you know there's levels to these games i tell people all the time there's there's there's this there's different levels there's one level of getting to the ufc and then there's a level of getting into the top 15 of the ufc and then there's levels of getting from 15 to 10 and a 10 to 5 and then the champion and like the top three contenders in the world you know and people don't know people think it's all the same you know people just like oh you're in the UFC you're you're amongst these guys like no you're not you got to go work your way to the top and you know I just I had a feeling like people got to find out the hard way and I guess he found the hard way you know and it was great you know nothing

but love for Cater he's he's out here doing his thing to see it. So it was pretty cool to have that moment. Was there ever a point where, and I'm asking this genuinely, I have great respect for Calvin Cater as well. I was watching that live and I was thinking to myself, I started to feel bad for him. Did you ever feel bad for him? I mean- Just the amount of damage,

I was actually getting concerned. I know, in the third round, I think it was the third round, I think, for sure. I was against the fence, and I shot him for a takedown. Because in my mind, I was like, my gosh. I was like, I'm just going to. Like, this guy is just too strong. Like, he's just too strong for his own good. So I was thinking, like, I'm going to go to his leg, suck it out from off from on there right now and just grind upon and get a finish from her Dean you know

real quick and when I did it he defended I was like I guess not I guess you want to stick it punch in your head so I was like here it is bro I'm sorry all right so then it takes us to the a Rodriguez fight did you want that fight like did you think after the cuz I thought after you beat cater beating cater one was impressive enough and then the way you did it i was like oh they're just gonna make the third the third alex fight but they didn't they so did you want that fight i it happens you know it is what it is i'm not uh i'm not a matchmaker yeah i'm not a matchmaker i did personally that i wanted to fight your year yes i'm i'm not like Yes. What was planned for me and him?

People have been dream matchmaking us forever. Me and him was like, I remember, I think I fought Jeremy Stevens back in UFC 197. That was Aldo Conor's card, right? I think that was Aldo Conor's card. Whenever Aldo fought Conor, yeah. We opened up the main card I remember running to Rodriguez in the back

and everybody like a lot of people wanted that fight I was like and he's a young kid too so I was like I'm probably going to fight this guy multiple times

that's the way I'm thinking you know so you know took years later to finally make it happen and I was great with it you know

it is what it is would I rather have fought for a title probably but that's not the way it planned out you know we got your year and i got to go out there and uh showcase my mixed martial arts that wasn't impressive right because you gave it to him in the striking he returned the favor but what decided the difference it seemed to me was to your point the well-roundedness did you know you were gonna have to go to that gear or was that like on the fly, like, okay, we gotta, not like, I don't mean to say that, oh, he's piecing me up, I can't fight him on the feet,

but I mean like the smart thing to do here. Yeah, was to turn it up. Yeah, for sure, you know, I mean, that's the smart thing to do every fight is to mix it up. So at the end of the day, mixing up with him made sense, you know, and they said he was working on his wrestling so i was like oh i better beat him to this wrestling game then you know because i've been working on my wrestling so it was super fun it was super good i mean the guy's a dog man you

know he is a dog a lot of people sleep on him uh i will admit i i thought you were gonna not run over him but i thought it would look a little bit like round three, round four, just kind of taking over. He was, he really impressed me. He was in there. He was in the fight, you know, especially being away for, what was it, two years or something. Right. He came to fight, you know, and that hit and not get hit thing with him is hard as as hard as it get man the guy is like his dexterity in his legs his flexibility his quickness his his iq too and his just his overall creativeness is is pretty cool in there so i got to go in there and experience it with him you know i look i look forward to

probably seeing him a couple more times in our career you know i know he ain't going nowhere i ain't going nowhere so that's weird that's what's weird about the volkanovski fight right the cater fight was just basically one-sided. But the Yair fight you won, clearly won in my view, although this is the thing. That was a tough fight, bro. And the Volkanovski fights, you always walk out there and I'm like, he's probably going to go to the club later. It's really weird. Those are the ones that have eluded you, but this really tough fight, that was the one you got your hand in.

So is the key here? Yair is obviously dramatically different than Alex. really tough fight. That was the one you got your hand on. So is the key here? Yeah, here it's obviously dramatically different than Alex, but is there something to be said for the complexion of a fight looking a certain way

and that favoring you or vice versa? I mean, if I need to have tough fights and have the tough fights to get my decision, then thanks for breaking the

code or something. So maybe we're going to make this one tougher than it has to be on Saturday. I guess what I'm asking is when you went back to the locker room, were you like, holy shit, that was tough?

Yeah, I mean, after the fight out, when they sent us for the year fight, they sent us to the emergency room and I was like begging them. I was like, I'm fine. They was like, no, you need to go, kid. I'm like, I understand I had that big cut, but that big cut was like in the last round, halfway through the round,

he elbowed me, and we knew, we was getting ready. Like there was like three things that I knew he was gonna throw in the fight. If I got him to the ground, he'd throw his back elbow. If I got him against the fence, he's gonna throw his up elbow against the fence. And his spinning kick, or his jumping front kick, I knew those three things was coming.

I was like, I'm not gonna, and i i knew those three things was coming i was like i'm not gonna end in two out of three things land and yeah he didn't land the the jump somersault kick but he landed a stupid punch on me in my face when he got up i was like what is going on like i i knew these three things was coming and the three things landed on me so yeah i was kind of upset about that but the guy is tricky man was super good and uh yeah I was I was trying to you can ask them you can ask my business partner you ask my coach I was telling him I'm fine let me do media let me go talk to me like no you need to go I don't even know how you're walking I was like I watched the I watched it and then I was like I understand where

it is because he was kicking my leg but wasn't wasn't nothing too crazy. His foot took more damage than my leg. So I was like, I can do it. And they were like, no. They insisted and took up two hours of my freaking day. I had a dinner that I was scared I was going to miss with my family. I was like, come on. I got to get out of here, please. And then, yeah, it happened.

What did they say at the ER? They stitched you up? Stitch you up? Nothing. It was like, everything's good. You know, they scanned me, and they look at my foot. They was like, oh, are you swelling? And I was like, you can go.

I was like, really? Like two hours for this? Come on. All right, so let me tell you one concern that I have, and I don't say this. I hope you understand this, and I know you know that I have huge admiration for your career. I do worry about the amount of damage you've taken over the course of your career. Do you? Not really, not really.

And the only reason why I understand what you guys see, because you guys see me in these wars and these fights, right? So in your guys' mind, you guys are not thinking of the training that you guys might be thinking like, oh, if he's having wars here, he's probably, we got scared of people being in the gym talking stories like I have wars in the gym, right? I don't have no wars in the gym. I do no sparring. I don't get my head hit in anything, you know, like personally, like on purpose, you know. Of course, like when you jujitsu and stuff, you can't stop hitting whatever.

But I don't spar anymore. We don't do no hard rounds. Everything is just much more smarter, you know. Like, forget our timing and stuff. We go, we do a little bit of motion stuff, but we're not cracking each other like how we would. Like, before, my training was worse than the fights, you know. We should have been getting paid 50k for the fights

than actually end the fight so at the end of the day I'm not too worried I mean I know that significant strike everybody see it and I heard him talking about it like oh you know I'm gonna crack up and blah blah this and that I'm like brother like did you forget the first two fights we fought

like one I don't ever think so you ever even made me do the chicken dance, and two, like, you was on the side doing the falling down over, you know, so I don't get it. So, again, I'm going to ask this question with great sensitivity, not in the fight itself, like, obviously, if you get hit in the fight, that doesn't count, but have you ever experienced any neurological symptoms or issues? No, not at all. I mean, my business partner is like super big into that.

So everything is, one of our things that, you know, one of our things that we like saying, you know, rushes, we put rush first, no matter what, you know what I mean? Rush is always first. And since rush is first, that I need to make sure that I'm good, you know? So he makes sure we go check up on, we have pretty much our own teams of doctors that make sure that everything, my brain, my health, my cardio,

everything that I'm consuming, whatever I'm coming in, all checks the list. Okay. And I know, again, I want to be very clear, I am asking that of great sensitivity. I know that's a very personal question, so I hope you know it comes from a place of genuine admiration for what you've done. But also, yeah, you're right. I'm just an observer. I don't know how you feel. And on the observer side, even when you win, even when you win, like the Yair fight, just a spectacular win. It was blood and guts affair. And as an observer, it's hard to know what to make of that. I mean, at the end of the day, we need people like you, you know, looking out for. Sometimes you talk to the right guy or a guy who's not in my situation where we are doing all the right stuff for it. And then you ask them the question and they go and be like, you know what?

I should go and figure this out or whatever. And you might actually help them. You might save a life. So it ain't't i ain't taking this with a grain of salt or anything i understand that you care and people do care you know like like you said you've been covering me for like 10 years now it's almost like it's almost like your family kind of look how gray i am max yeah i've gotten gray covering you that's what it's done to me unbelievable but it's true like do you see you know you're in the gym obviously and

you're on the sport. Do you think fighters in general take enough care about that kind of thing? And personally, like, 100%, if you ask me, I would say no. I say no. And I say this to all the fighters out there, everybody, protect your chickens. I mean, the great, what the great Marshawn Litt said, protect your chickens. You guys only get one. You guys want to be around. Like, I want to be able to throw balls with my great-grandkids, you know?

Like, I know it's far away from that. Rush is only 10. But even my great-great-grandkids, I want to be in great top shape whenever I need to do life. You know, I don't want to be in a wheelchair. I don't want to be able to not put a sentence together for my son or my great grandkids. At the end of the day, it's do your job,

protect yourself, and don't be scared to ask for help. I mean, the only person you're hurting is yourself. Never ever be scared to ask someone for help.

Let's talk about your team for a second. I have a theory. Let's see what you think about it. Not a theory, just a claim. talk about your team for a second. I have a theory. Let's see what you think about it. Not a theory, just a claim. I think your team is maybe the most underrated in MMA in terms of a lot of things, but most notably, you talked about how city kickboxing is smart, and I agree. Eugene Bierman is smart, and there's some other folks in there that are obviously very bright as well.

Ivan Flores and the guys around you, in my judgment, are just as smart. And they don't get a lot of the credit. Why? Not at all. You know why? Ivan Flores, Rylan Lazarus, Michael Nakagawa, Darren Yap, Christopher Daggett. These five names, you guys not going to hear nothing about. You know why?

Because I got to hold a freaking gun to their head to tell them to go do an interview like they don't want to do interviews every everything is me me first they're like no we're just doing everything for you and and they don't want none of the light they don't want none of the shine and that's why i love them you know these guys don't want nothing you know this there's a point where i had to hassle them to actually pay them too i was like bro come on guys like you guys just take your pay them too. I was like, bro, come on, guys. Like, you guys just take your time. Yeah. These guys, I was like, you guys, these guys take time out of their family and friends.

Like, they got kids. Both of them got two kids. You know what I mean? It's like two of them. And one of them got four kids, you know, or three kids. So, at the end of the day, it's just like, that's why I love the team, man. They don't want none of the look at me i'm the guy i'm the reason why i'm actually like this they're like nah he's the

reason why we're here to help him and he's doing it because of him so i mean find guys like that find guys that they just want to i mean i guess so i guess they're like they're almost like the avengers but low-key you know i mean the low-key avengers like then they're almost like the Avengers, but low-key. You know what I mean? The low-key Avengers. They're not popping their chest out and being like, oh, I'm doing this, doing that for him. And that's why I got nothing but love for these guys, man. They'll do anything for me. I mean, when I first started training with Ryland,

I didn't have a job. I had nothing pretty much. And he just said, come to the gym. Don't worry about paying nothing. Just make sure you show up. We'll figure it know and um that's the same thing with Darren yeah I had no money it's pretty expensive to train with him and he was like you know just just come we figure it out as we go and and we did so this guy's just amazing you know like I said I really gotta hold a gun like no bullshit like I'm like you guys need to you guys need to do this interview they're like to do this interview.

They're like, UFC needs this interview. I'm like, come on, really, me? Or, like, even embedded trying to interview, like, the guys, I got to use the bathroom. And they're, like, gone forever. I'm like, these guys, come on. Actually, I had Ivan one time on my radio show. And I'm saying this as a compliment to, like, what he does for you.

That was the worst interview I ever had. He wouldn't tell me anything. He wouldn't tell me anything. He wouldn't tell me anything. He was so friendly the whole time. He was just whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop, just ducking and dodging. I'm like, okay, all right. So I want, I'm going to try with this.

You got to give me his number because once you're retired, because I know he ain't going to tell me shit while you're around. Once you're retired, he owes me an interview, man. He owes me an interview. I mean, once I retire,

you can probably ask him about me, but he got his little son coming up and his son really wants to be a fighter yeah yeah his son's name is aries so his son is like really wants to be a fighter so i don't know if you're gonna get anything i'm just giving a heads up i don't know if you're gonna get anything because like i even told him because his son his his son is like oh my son's age they're 10 they're same age and uh his son said oh i want to fight he wanted to fight uncle max for for his belt you know when he can so he don't know the kid don't know but when he's like 16 or 18 i'm gonna put up the belt one of the belts in the house i'm gonna spar him i'm gonna fight him

in the gym i'm gonna that's how i'm telling him i'm gonna like bro i'm gonna fight you in this gym finally you've been running your mouth since he's a little kid we're gonna do it now the thing about ivan and again it's not just him I'm just using as an example because I had him on the show once okay but they're generous souls they're kind people they're hard working but I do want to focus on that one thing that I said about how smart they are when did you realize oh wait a second these dudes are real dialed in they're real bright I mean I I did you just luck into a situation? Exactly To tell you the honest truth I just kinda Lucked out man

I just I just get I get lucky with a bunch of things Or not even luck I think I guess it's a nickname I just get blessed man I was like

The way The way me and Me and Rylan came I got Rylan Rylan is the one that I found Rylan first And Rylan is the one that Threw me to Darren Rylan is the one that I found Rylan first And Rylan is the one That threw me to Darren

Rylan is the one That bring in Ivan Into the camp And Rylan's wife Is friends with With Christopher Daggett So it's like It's this small little thing

Like Rylan was the Rylan was the root And his little branches He grabbed everybody So I just I lucked out in it man I just got lucky It wasn't like oh wow this

guy's so smart he's doing this and that blah blah it's like no i needed jujitsu ryan was the man on the island i got i ran into him and then he did everything else amazing now you mentioned uh going forward we will see what happens on saturday win or lose does 1555 hinge on that? Is the 155 plan such that it is one? Is it contingent on a certain outcome on Saturday or not? No, not at all. Not at all. But there is history there with the guy that he's not the champion, but he should still be the champion in my eyes. Charles Oliveira, there's history between him. Like I said, Dustin. We're always on the short short list for connor so there's a bunch of things but you know first things first we got business to handle i know my name ain't dana white hunter campbell

sean shelby or mcmainer i don't meet up with those guys on tuesdays that's their job so i'm gonna go in take care of business on saturday and uh see where it leads us. Are you surprised by Olivera's maturation? Like, he used to be the guy who was always real good, especially with jiu-jitsu, but then, you know, he would kind of flake out certain times. But now, like, he just walked into Justin Gaethje. Was that surprising to you that he's become so formidable? Whatever he found, he found, man. Whatever he, I don't know what he's putting in his acai nowadays,

but I want a cup of that acai, Charles, because he's been killing it. He's been amazing. And I'm kind of pissed for him that he kind of got history taken away from him. His next fight is going to be fighting for a title, not a title defense, which rightfully so be. So, you know, he, he looking scary. The dude been looking good. He'd been cracking people. He'd been, he'd been making people quit that's calling him quitters. So it's, it's an amazing thing to see. Right. Uh, you mentioned Habib. I would be remiss if I didn't mention it. Were

you surprised? So what Habib said was basically he tried, in Habib's defense, he did try to be respectful about it, but he did say he thought Volkanovski would win the third meeting between you two.

Did that annoy you? No, not at all. He said something about, I heard something about fire or something, right? Like he said, I don't have the fire or something.

Oh, that's right. Yes, he also said that. He said, I don't have the fire. That's why he went that way. So I just think he must be a fan of Alex's cooking show. And he saw the fire. He literally saw fire.

So that's what the thing is coming to his mind. So, yeah, I'm sorry, Khabib. I don't cook. I play video games. Maybe that's why he thinks. I mean, the fire in the video games is pretty fire, bro. I dropped some pretty fire content with the video games, guys. So make sure you guys come to Facebook Gaming and show your boy some love.

But, you know, all jokes aside, I don't know. I don't know what he's talking about. You know, he's not with me in the gym. He's not with me the day-to-day. You know, I don't post nothing training. The only thing I really post is, like, gaming, my merch, you know. Don't forget, shopmaxholly.com. Pick up that merch look look

look would look fire in these look at this you look really fire in these in my foreign shorts you're 32 you're 30 years old and in shape i'm a 42 year old wash dad that's yeah you get the floor shorts and you want a tank top that say daddest man on the planet we can get you that we can get that you gotta send this guy that you gotta get on it get on that. We can get that. You gotta send this guy that. You gotta put a picture. Get on it. We'll do that. Still though, speaking of sort of all the things you have going on, do you ever does the acknowledgement of your peers,

how much does that matter? Because you sort of noted that, well, before the cater fight, they were calling you journeyman and this, that, and the other. And the Khabib thing kind of, I can tell it at least slightly irritates you. Does the acknowledgement of your ability and accomplishments from your, and the other. And the Khabib thing kind of, I can tell it at least slightly irritates you. Does the acknowledgement of your ability and accomplishments from your, let's say, fighting peers, I'm not saying it drives you, but it does seem to matter.

I mean, it's cool, you know? It is what it is, you know? Especially when, I mean, someone like Khabib saying something, it is what it is, I mean. By the way, it's not all criticism. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And a bunch of it is praise.

Like I said, you know, after the second fight, like I had like more than half the ufc roster saying that you know i should be the champ whatever so at the end of the day i love the peers you know i love seeing everybody i love being the guy that everybody's cool with or whatever you know i'm i guess the best way to sum it up is like i'm i'm your favorite fighter's favorite fighter you know and that and that and that feels great you know do you ever think about what role you want to play in the history of hawaiian mma like specifically that particular lane uh you know not really you know but but when it when it's all said and done now you said it i would i would love to be i guess the dc you know how dc is to me and like like If I ever need anything I call DC

Pick his mind about something Or whatever So Yeah Any Hawaii guys Just reach out You know I would love to tell you guys

How to do it And tell you guys the recipes And tell you what works What doesn't My criticism on stuff It's It'd be cool You know

It'd be cool But even for all of All of MMA period You know That's the DC DC is that guy He makes so much friends with everybody. He helps everybody try to be talking.

He stood the second baddest man on the planet. Probably the third now because you're here, Luke. So, yeah, for sure. Well, I guess what I mean is, like, listen, I'm not from Hawaii. I certainly would never even come close to understanding it the way you would, right? I've been one time, but that's it. But what I mean to say is, you know, BJ Penn will obviously occupy a very special place in the history of Hawaiian MMA.

And I know you're probably not trying to learn. I'm going to knock him off his perch. I know you're not doing that. But I guess, do you ever feel like, where do you want to be placed when the story is written about where you are in the history of Hawaiian MMA? I mean, I don't care. I don't mind. I just wanna be that guy to be like,

especially from Hawaiians or anybody from around the world in a little town, just saying like, if I could do it, why not you? Why? If someone like me could do it from a small town on the West side in Waianae, Hawaii, why not you? So I just wanna be the inspiration. You don't need to put nothing around me. I just

want to know and be like, hey, I want somebody to be like, hey, look, he did it. Yeah. So why not you? Why can't I do it? And that's what I want to be to not only Hawaii people, but to all the small town kids that think they don't belong or the world's too big or so on and so on you know i want to be that inspiration be like look he can do it i can do it and you and and not only do it you can do it better than me you know and whatever you can do you can do it better you can be greater and uh keep going you know i'm only only setting these goals and records because records are meant to be broken please break them please somebody break them because uh i'll be cheering you on all the way. Almost done here.

Have you ever thought about taking a boxing fight? I know it's always very, very difficult to do. And it's kind of weird. And who the hell knows. But dude, you know this. From the time you got into the UFC to now, I've never seen the MMA and boxing worlds merge more than they have. Yeah.

Yeah. 100%. 100%. Man, I would love to box somebody, you know what I mean? Anybody, whoever. Dude, are you going to fight Jake Paul? Fight Jake Paul. Oh, my gosh.

That'd be so much fun. That'd be so much fun to fight him. You got to fight with Tommy. Tommy Fury, though, coming up, right? That should be an interesting fight. But have you ever thought about it, like in a real way? Oh, for sure i mean i thought i thought i talked to my manager all the time i would love to figure out a way you know get

usc on board or something and fight somebody for you for a lot of crazy amount of money you know i would love to fight floyd i would love to fight any of the other top guys at the 147 or even you know who see who knows another youtube star whoever wants it can get it you know i'm the best boxer in the fc and uh they can figure that out the hard way all right so on the saturday co-main event what's on the line as far as i can tell the belt is on the line um obviously the the who won the trilogy to an extent really is kind of online even if you win the one some people think obviously and there's a case to be made previously but that's what i think's on the line it doesn't matter what i think what matters is what you think what you think about what's on the line saturday what is

it ah legacy it's just as simple as that his legacy you know um me and him we're on the top on the higher end of the pound for pound ranking list you know i'm number i he's the champ i'm number one in our own rankings in the featherweight. And fights like this don't happen, you know. In the last decade, I only can, I don't know if you can remember, I only can remember one, you know. DC Jones, 100%. So to have this again, you know, this is a huge fight.

You know, the hardcore journalists, the hardcore fans, this is what they want. This is what they need. They earn for this, I'm just excited, man. There's a lot of legacy going there. Hopefully, everything goes good and I can continue on my legacy and go after the GOAT 45. That's Aldo. He got a bunch of records that still haven't been broken. Until somebody breaks them, then they can call themselves the GOAT of 45. I'm so glad you brought that up because some people say this is for the GOAT all the time at 145. And he beat Aldo and you beat Aldo.

But Aldo, the campaign he had at 145, I don't mean to diminish what you or Max has done, but it's remarkable. Yeah, I mean, I trip out whenever somebody say, we're going to find out who is the best 145-er in the world ever. I'm like, are we forgetting about Jose Aldo? Like, this guy with seven title defenses in the UFC? How much title defenses did he have in WEC? I don't even remember. Yeah, it's like this guy's been undefeated for a certain amount of years.

Like, we're just going to forget about him because, okay, yeah, okay yeah i finished him twice but it's like it is what it is you know it's some it's some person time he still has stats you know i mean like he still has records that you still have to beat to beat a goat he has seven title defenses go beat that go get eight and then call yourself the goat you know i mean but other than that i'm not not even close. How much tight defense I had? Like three or something, right? So I got to get like four more or something. So we see what happens. It's a long list. Well, I'll tell you what, Max, I don't know what's going to happen on Saturday. I don't predict the future. You're already a Hall of Famer. And this is about as excited I've been for a fight in a long, long time. They don't come around like this very often, do they? Pretty

special. Thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it. I don't ever say good luck because I don't wish that, but I certainly hope that the best man wins and I know you're prepared and I can't wait to see what happens. Thank you, brother. No, thank you for your time. Right off the plane, straight to this interview, you the man. Thank you. Thank you.