MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Morning Kombat’s Next Chapter | Dana White Rips Boxing Sanctioning Bodies | Fight Announcements

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

It's Monday morning Donks, and LT is in the house with a major announcement about Morning Kombat's next chapter. After getting through MK updates, it's time to get into the latest news in the combat game. Dana White has done some media interviews recently that are worth taking a closer look at - including telling Stephen A. Smith that he plans to "get rid of" sanctioning bodies in boxing. Plus, there were some recent fight announcements to go over. Also, text message exchanges between UFC matchmaker Mick Maynard and MMA manager Marcelo Brigodeiro were revealed in a court case in Brazil. And Jon Jones says it's unlikely he'll face Alex Pereira on the UFC White House card. That and more on an MK Monday.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Revely, revely, d'alks. Look at us now, tip to tip. This is our life. This is our passion. I'm Luke Thomas. This is Morning Combat.

They showed me that intro before the show, and I died laughing. That was very, very funny. It won't be the permanent one, but it's the one we have at least for today. Welcome, everyone. My name is Luke Thomas. How are you doing? I am merely one half. of the hosting duo here at Morning Combat on the 12th of January,

2026, a new era in Morning Combat. Obviously, you guys know why you're here. There's a lot to get to in Combat Sports. We're going to talk about that today. But it's the first show, well, we did a show last Monday, and that was the last show with Brian Campbell as the reigning co-host. Of course, as we've said, a million times, Brian Campbell will be back.

That is not the end of Brian Campbell on Morning Combat, but it was the end of him as sort of like a regular full-time. host. So this is the first show without him. And what we said was after, or I should say during last Monday show, we had said, expect announcements during the week. And I only gave you on the live chat that it would be announced today. Well, the good news is everything is going to be announced today. There is a full slate of announcements about the future of MK, this new chapter. And before we get to it very quickly, I just, you know what, I'll save it. I'll save it. I'll save. for when we do it. So here we are beginning of the show. You might have been wondering who's

going to join me in that other seat. And I think I'm finally ready to show you who it's going to be. So there's a lot to get to more than actually just this part of the announcement. There's some other pieces that we kind of have to share. But you've waited long enough. No more delays. There's actually a lot to talk about here. Who's going to be joining me on Mondays here when this seat opens up. It is this gentleman. Oh, there you is. It's funny how you only call when you need something, Luke.

How's everybody doing? Good. Welcome, everyone. This is Chuck Mindenhall. This is the great Charles Mindenhall. Chuck, I am delighted to see you. No, Iceman? What?

What's all this? I'm usually the ice man in your eyes. Yes, you are the ice man. You're actually in my phone. You're as the ice man. The other day I was like searching for Chuck. I'm like, how does Chuck not? Oh, because it's Iceman.

Also, let me just say before we go any further, it is very, very nice to see that I'm now not the only person in MMA media with books in the background. This is actually quite nice. Real books. Yes. No screen. I mean, these are books that I have cracked open and read the bulk of them.

I always tell people, Chuck, I be like, oh, have you read every book? book on there? The answer is no. However, the reason why is because many of them are textbooks, and I only read like, oh, you know, certain classes like Geology 204. You have to read chapters five through seven or something. But other than that, I've written. But let me give the floor to you here, Chuck. There's a lot of different pieces about this that we have to discuss. I'll get to that in a minute. But let me just give you the floor. You're the new host. How do you feel? What would you like to say? What's on your mind about the future of MK and your role in it? Well, I feel like

it's kind of like a little bit of a homecoming, because I've been involved with you guys and you specifically, since 2012, we were talking about this a little bit with the MMA beat and kind of just going back to different iterations of shows that we've done over the years. And then, of course, Morning Combat, and I know you've mentioned this before, I believe I introduced you to BC. Like when we were doing a, when we were doing the MMA beat, you're asking for East Coast journalists who might be able to fit in in the role. And I said, have you ever talked to Brian

Campbell? And I think you got in touch with them or something like that. And then that's kind of the development of that friendship. So I feel like I've had a weird hand in kind of helping orchestrate where we've ended up. So in a weird way, he was keeping a seat warm for me, the whole way. And here I am back, kind of with you again. First time, I think

we've done a regular thing since probably the MMA beat, right? So it's been a little while. But it feels like coming home because I've been with you guys through a lot of the pre-games. And I know I've sat in a couple of times and co-hosted when Brian was on vacation. So I think you're on vacation a couple times. So it's cool.

And, you know, I won't try to be BC. I won't try to do anything like that because I don't eat hot dogs from 7-Eleven. And I certainly don't know too many 90s songs. But check this out. I even work for the occasion in my morning combat. And I wanted to show you that mine is like Leverne from Leverne and Shirley says Chuck. they actually put Chuck on it. So I feel like this was always destined to happen.

Yeah, dude, even I don't have one that's got my name on it. That's what's great. That's what's great. RJ Dunkel Gangbang used to, he used to make some great merch back in the day. Yeah, one thing if I may that you mentioned, and this is kind of topic number one, because we're just sort of rolling into it here in an informal way,

part of the rundown. I'm glad you said it. And it's something we've talked about before. And it's something I want to stress to the audience as well. Listen, there is no replacing Brian. in Campbell. It's just that's not a thing that exists. It's not a thing that's going to exist. It's not a thing that can exist. And even if there was some kind of way to maybe try it, I just think it'd be a mistake to do it. And so we're not going to. Now, that being said,

some of the things that Brian brought to the show are things that we, in a certain spirit that he, I think, helped in crafting the brand of MK. We're definitely going to keep that alive, right? There's going to be to a degree, you know, obviously, for example, I mean, it's more than just this, but, you know, Brian brought an air of laughter, of frivolity in a good way. Like, that's absolutely something that we're going to keep here. I mean, I know that Chuck and I both have books in the background, but we also recognize that there is an element of showmanship to this podcast as well. And so we're going to lean into that.

But I think the other thing that we just have to do is lean into our own strengths Chuck and I have together. It would be a mistake, for example, to not do that. So we want to keep alive the things that made M.K. great under BC and part of the way in which he crafted that brand. But we want to do it, you know, in a way that we see best fit and in a way that's in keeping with our strengths. And Chuck, I'll just say this to the audience and I'll say to everyone here on the show, which is, listen, I'm not going to make any promises. Oh, it's going to look exactly like this. And it's going to be exactly like that.

I think it'd be a mistake to even try to do something like that. What I can make a promise here today is that the show is, in terms of the production side of it as locked in as maybe as I've ever seen it. And we're just going to give it our best and or I'm going to give it my all. We're going to make every show as good as we possibly can. And that's the only commitment I can possibly make. But I think in the end it'll be something that I'm pretty confident, actually. This is give me something that they're really going to want to enjoy.

Yeah, I agree with you. And, you know, you guys, from what you've been able to do over the last few years, is create kind of an irreverent. truthful platform. None of that is going to go away. And obviously, like, the frivolity that you mentioned and the, I mean, that's just the natural cut of me. You know what I mean? That's always going to be kind of my approach. Obviously, like you said, I don't think you can, you should not try to replace a guy like BC who's very much his own individual and you guys had great chemistry. But so do we, man. And like, I've said it a million times. Like, it's a very natural fit.

And I think that when we were talking about this, being a potential move and all of that good stuff, I had no reservations about that. It was like, I think you and I were both on the same page that the key would be for us to do the show the way that we would do it and not try to mimic anything, right? But to keep kind of the spirit of the show alive, the whole, you know, I think the format remains the same. You can talk about this a little more. I think maybe it's going to steer a little more MMA-centric and things like that. For the most part, it's going to be the spirit of the same show. I think that that's what we're going to uphold here. We have an opportunity here.

We're not affiliated with any particular brand in the space in boxing and an MMA. And that gives us the same thing that it's always given us, which is incredible license to just be exactly who we are and say what we want to say. And the reality is that is becoming short. There's not a lot of opportunities like that in media anymore. And we have got a great one here and we're going to use it. And there's a couple of other details around the future of the show that I want to make clear about. So this is kind of where the twist comes into play.

Number one, you're noticing that we're not at home, excuse me, you're noticing that we are at home and that we're not in studio. We will be back in studio. In fact, we'll be back in studio next week and we're going to be back in studio the week after that. So we've got a lot of studio time coming up, but we're not going to go as regularly on Mondays as we normally have done. I could say many things about that, but let me just tell you, what the honest to God truth is from my perspective here. And this will not come as a surprise to all of you, but it is quite the truth.

I honestly don't know if I could have done another year. In fact, I'm pretty sure I couldn't have done another year traveling the way that I had been before. And if that had been a requirement to do MK, then MK would probably be over. I've been going up to New York and down to D.C. And even further than that in Richmond, basically since 2003.

And I can't do it anymore. I just can't do it anymore. I can't. I mean, yes, I can do it on occasion, right? As I mentioned, you know, on a little bit more of a restrained schedule, which I'll be doing this month. But as a general rule, I can't. It has worn, it has ground me into dust.

And I need to have my, I made a commitment to myself at the start of 2026. Now, I knew this was coming before that, but as part of that mission, I made a commitment to myself to take my health a little bit more seriously in 2026 and to take, you know, spending more time doing things that bring me less anxiety. And the first thing I'd have to cut out in order to do that would be the Amtrak visit. So I want to be clear. We'll be back in studio multiple times this month, for example, but probably not quite as much as we had been in the last year. And I don't think that's really going to matter for the show to be perfectly honest of all the things. that I have, you know, some, that I have my focus on. This is probably the bottom of the list.

And in fact, I'll be honest with you, when it was finally decided that we were going to be cutting back my need to come into studio as often, I'm going to tell you exactly how I felt. It was a relief. I felt relieved. I felt a weight lifted off my shoulders. I just 20 years on Amtrak, I just can't do it anymore, not like I was before. So there's that. The other part that I think is going to be kind of interesting to all of you is that

Chuck is going to be here, well, for a lot of things. There's a chance you might see him on Fridays, but the reality is he'll be here for all the pregames, which we, of course, he's been doing that for the most part anyway for a while. And of course, these Monday shows as well, he'll be a pretty consistent presence. But for the Friday shows where Chuck is not here, for example, we're going to be rotating in other people. Now, Chuck has to travel, you know, for example, we'll be talking about this later in the show, Chuck. You've got travel coming up for for Zupa Boxing. Don't spoil it because I want to talk about that in a minute. But on instances where that is happening, we're going to rotate other

people in. So other familiar names that you've seen, you know, and I can't speak for anybody, but certainly a name like a Jed or like an Oscar or whoever, we'll start rotating those names in. And Chuck, as we indicated for most of these pre-games again some travel might get in the way of this but in general it'll be you me and then a third person in studio in new york city i think that about coverage you me and jose quervo i'm pretty sure that all previous will be there yes um and long island luke will be there as well let's bring him in the third member here essentially of the show who uh has been i got to say intrepidly building its future behind the scenes we've got a couple of things to show them today do we not long out like what are your broader what do you what do you want to say to the audience

with the opportunity that you have well first of all you guys always called me a producer back in the day but i never actually produced anything on this show i am now officially producing this show or co-producing this show so going to be some new segments coming in look forward probably at least one new one new one every episode obviously we're keeping some old ones we got dms from donts today you know the usual stuff uh one thing i want to just touch on luke because we didn't touch on it on the top we got new january merch let's bang to it stranger danger merch uh you can get the raglan style t-shirt or the regular t-shirt and you can get the autograph l t-poster morning combat dot shop if you're a fan of uh you know

that show what's that show stranger things you know stranger danger there you go uh yeah appreciate that but yeah i'm looking forward to the new era guys bro can you come back for a second can you tell the audience the merch sales that we did at the end of january it was fucking insane we sold over 500 t-shirts 50 something posters i mean it was the support of bc is ridiculous but yeah we pretty much like tripled quadrupled any amount of merch we've ever sold in a month so collectors items now you know yeah for real i'm gonna give those to starving kids and developing kids are you kidding who the fuck means that shit um like those starving kids need to suffer anymore luke yeah exactly here's a brian campbell teacher eating a hot dog go fuck yourself

Last thing I want to say, and I said it on Monday show, the one last one we did with BC, and then we'll really move into the rest of the topics here for today. One thing I really want to point out here is the guy who recruited me to join Showtime all the way back in 2019. His name is Brian Daly. You saw him in the docs. We talked about him here a number of times. He brought me in, NBC, of course, at that time, to do morning combat as a Showtime property.

And then he worked out a deal with our bosses at CBS and they wanted it to make it a co-CBC. CBS and Showtime property. And then he wanted to make it, obviously, when CBS got rid of combat sports, this is long before the Paramount Skydance merger and they got rid of Showtime boxing, they got rid of Bellator. They were just cutting all ties to combat sports. He saved the program and made it part of the All the Smoke family, which is where it resides today.

But of course, that was with myself and Brian Campbell. And now, you know, Brian's back to CBS full time and we can't wait to see what kind of stuff he cooks up over there, but it's a new iteration. And Brian Daly is still. supporting this project. Let me, let me give a little bit of, it's not even career advice, but it is maybe a career truth

that I need to share with everybody out there. You don't need a bunch of people in your career to boost you or to buoy you. It's nice if you can get it, but it's unrealistic. And the good news is you don't even need it. You just need one. And if you're lucky, really lucky, I mean, get a couple of Brian Daly's.

But honestly, I've had one. and I don't need any other one. It's like you get one guy like that in your life and it can change it. It will change it and transform it. What you want to find, if you can be as lucky as I have been, is to find someone who believes in the project, believes in the vision, believes in the opportunity for the future, and is willing to put his money where his mouth is to make it a reality.

Big thanks, gigantic thanks to the continued belief and support of Brian Daly in the show's numerous iterations to bring us to this point. Chuck, I know you've dealt with BD as well, right? Even before MK. So you were talking about it's like it's a little inside baseball here, but like I think even before you knew Brian Daly, I had been introduced to Brian Daly through Jesse Katz at Roots of Fight,

who's a friend of mine. And Brian has always been kind of a, you know, a big time advocate for not just you know combat sports but obviously like guys like us and at one point like i even we pitched an idea this was before morning combat came together it was in that time period though when they were kind of putting together some properties and uh corey graves the wwee um commentator and i he lived in my town and we're like we should do a podcast we'll talk about combat sports and the entertainment side of it we talked to brian daly and he was he green lit it he wanted to do the show and uh what ended up happening is I don't think that

Corey or Matt as his real name could get the clearance in the end from the WWE to make it happen. This is before obviously like TKO and that whole thing. So Brian, but Brian was advocating for it and he wanted it and we were going to do it. It's just I've been working with him

peripherally with you guys for all of this time. So he's always kind of been there for me too in a weird way and it's kind of cool to end up back in this iteration of the show and kind of we're still, we're still, We still got Brian Daly as our card of guardian angel at the top here. So I just wanted to point that out.

The guy has been there for me as well through this whole process. So there you have it. This is what we're going to do. This is the plan for 2026. It's going to be pedal to the metal. We've got tons of new stuff to try each and every time. We're sorry it took as long as it did to finally get everything out in the open. But we are here now.

We're ready to go. We appreciate everyone's support. Thank you very much. And without further ado, let's fucking. and bang. All right. So let's do it. Point number two, UFC president, Dana White, has been out making the media rounds recently. He has stopped by a number of places, including Spitting Backfist, the Barstool podcast. He even talked to Stephen A. Smith. Now, he's talked about a number of issues,

some of them not even related to the other. We're going to talk about all of them. But let's actually start to me with one of the more interesting parts about what he said. Namely, he told Stephen A. Smith on his show that he plans to quote, get rid of sanctioning bodies end quote chuck let's start with you what do you make of this but appears to be some kind of threat or a bare minimum of promise anyway and more specifically to what extent does this cohere with what other tk o execs have been saying about the broader tk o i should say zufa boxing project well they have framed it the whole way as an or right like they've said that they want fighters to have the option uh to continue the way if they like

the way that it's that set up, they can continue that or they can go with the, you know, the UBOs and they can end up with basically the ZUFA formation and like and become part of what he envisions. So I guess the funny thing to me is, you know, Dana, through these new outlets, like he seems to be, he's very reclined. They're talking to Stephen A. Smith and he's, he's had these moments with other people. He kind of lets out, you know, he gets relaxed and I think he kind of lets out like what he's really thinking. And sometimes it is at, odds. We all know what they want to do here, right?

With the revival act, we all know that they want to make the UFC a box. They want to bring the UFC model to boxing and have the best, fight the best and all this stuff. But it hasn't really been expressly said. In fact, you were pointing this out to me too,

and I know that you've been on top of the story the whole time. You know, the direct messaging through this whole process is that they're not trying to get away of the saying she advised, right? It's just more of an and or through this whole process. I felt like this was the first time Dana or anybody from, you know, from that side of things, worded it quite like that, even though we knew what was going on, right?

Let's see, let's see what the audio is. Let's play this clip if we can't long on. I don't know if we need to play the whole thing, but let's start it off. This is Dana talking to Stephen A. Smith. Talk to us for a second about what you're doing in the sport of boxing from start to finish, your promotional arm and everything else with in between. So I've been talking smack about boxing for a long time, and now it's time to put my money where my mouth is. And to get rid of the sanctioning organizations, the best will fight the best.

We're going to sign all the young up-and-coming guys. If you break into the top 10 and you're still undefeated, your undefeated record means something. You know what I mean? Everybody's undefeated in boxing because nobody fights anybody. Right. Everybody will fight everybody. and when you're undefeated,

like John Jones. John Jones is under, nobody has ever beat John Jones and he fought all the best in the world. You know? Then he moved up to heavyweight and walked right through the guy. Yeah.

So your O will actually mean something in boxing in the next couple of years. How are you going to? Boy, I got to tell you, Chuck, he just can't quit John Jones, right? John Jones was, brought up multiple times in part because Stephen A. Smith, I watched that entire

thing. I don't know if you sat through all of that. But man, Stephen A. Smith would return to John Jones like you know, like that was kind of the default fighter that he knew the whole way through that conversation. Long Island, do me a favor. So I was at the congressional hearing, Chuck,

where it was the Education and Workforce Committee, I believe, and it was my understanding is what I found out after the fact was that was basic. So obviously any kind of committee is going to have members of the left party and members of the right party. And depending on who's in control is of the broader Congress, it will often be a consequence, therefore, who's in charge of these various committees. So therefore, it was a Republican basically committee meeting. Now, they don't totally exclude

their colleagues on the other side of the aisle. There is a nominal outreach and they work together to bring it there. But it was basically, as I understand it, it was not, my understanding is there's a different kind, right, where you can have a sort of a fact-finding congressional hearing where both sides invite an equal number of experts, and it's much longer, and it's, again, you go into a sort of a discovery process. This had four from the Republicans and one from the Democrat, and that was Patrick English, one of the original architects of the Ali Act. But anyway, all the witnesses, when they eventually speak, have to have an opening statement.

And it's very short, it's not super long, and then they submit their comments into the record. And I was sitting there listening to the way in which this was being sold to Congress, because as you rightly point out, Chuck, I mean, how you tell Congress and the world that this works is actually pretty critically important. And of course, how the legislation is drafted to match that just as much. And the message over and over again was choice. And in fact, the word that was given over and over again was choice.

Put up on the screen here, these are the comments from Lawrence Epstein, who is Harvard educated, by the way, very bright guy. It's not a stupid guy by any stretch of the imagination. and on top of that, you know, has been involved with the organization for quite some time. And you can see, he says, quote, they're going to offer boxers more freedom, choice, and opportunities. Next slide, please. And here again is it later where he says, again, the act, the one they're proposing is simply going to provide boxers more choice and opportunities. If the sanctioning model is beneficial for certain boxers, they can choose to stay in that system.

Next one. And this is the last one, but although there's other ways you could point to in his statements that this would be the case, where he says UBO, this is the parallel system that they're trying to implement in boxing, would produce additional boxing events and give fighters more choice and opportunities to compete. Now, Chuck, you and I are old washed POSs. We've been around a very long time. And for that, we know what the truth is.

My response to this, Chuck, would be, is there a possible interpretation of what Dana is saying as merely being a function of, hey, we're going to get rid of them in our version of boxing. Like, we're not going to use them at all, not a sense that we're designed to like stamp them out. Yes, I suppose that is one interpretation you could take. But this is where I come down on this, Chuck. And I would love to get your thoughts. Namely, if you know anything about the UFC's DNA and now TKO's DNA,

because it has kind of transferred up, they don't do anything to share power. that's not what they do. What they do is they want all of it. The number one feature, their corporate DNA, is control. The idea that they're, oh, well, this is really about choice by itself is, you know, hard to believe. And more to the point, when the guy says we're going to get rid of them, clearly what they want is for their system to undermine the existing order, which they see as so disastrous that they don't even want to get into boxing until they have a work. around. That's exactly the way I see it, Luke. And, you know, it's funny, you mentioned that because what Dana is putting out there is exactly that. It's that they want to coexist,

but that has never been actually a term that they ever want to do. And that's why, you know, we've ended up in, with lawsuits and everything else. Remember when they purchased Strike Force, whatever year that was? And there was like this line of, yeah, 2011, which is, God, that's crazy, has been that long, but just the business as usual kind of comment that comes out of Dana White. And I mean, obviously, we've seen multiple versions of this over the years where there's a softer kind of entry to the language of what they're doing, and then it just comes down to the hard facts of what they're going to do.

And this just seems to me that they're trying to present something. And, you know, if this revival act goes through and they're able to kind of accomplish, it's just I think that they look at it as like a funneling into their way of thinking. and that everybody will come to their way of thinking in the end. It's a long play, right? Like over the next couple of years. So I think that that's kind of where we're at. And especially when you look at, I guess the soft launch,

I don't know how you see it. And I know we're going to talk about this of Zufa boxing and what they're doing. But they just don't, they don't want to coexist and play nice with competing companies. We've just known that for years, right? It's who they are. That's it. I just think it's so naive to be like, oh, you know, hey, if boxers want this opportunity, yeah, for now. While it exists for sure, that might be a thing.

And again, boxing is a worldwide sport. I don't know if there is a world where all of the sanctioning bodies go away. But the model is not, hey, we want to put on non-sanctioning bodied boxing. And he'll treat it like a, like an abusive relationship. It'll just be keep reiterated that boxing is broke and he's there to fix it. And it's going to be this reiteration again and again, you know. This is why the legislation, by the way, independent of this comment. And we'll get to Dana's other comments here in a minute.

But like, this is why the legislation to me, Chuck feels like so like self-contradictory. It's because you've actually read their fuller comments and also just like how they answered certain questions that came to them from, you know, the various congressmen. Their answers are all like, yeah, this model that exists is a fucking disaster. and has ruined boxing, but we don't want to change it. We just want to, why would you not want to change? If what you're saying is all of these pieces created disaster, don't you want to get rid of that? Like I don't, oh, no, no, everyone else can have the very conditions that created disaster.

We don't want. Yeah, if you want the remedy, though, they come to us. I mean, it's like this is, and they've done this the whole way. I mean, Dana, since he's talked about boxing, has been planting these seeds, right? like it's been a constant you know a constant kind of reiteration that boxing is broken like that everything's a fire like you watch the big event it's a fire sale those types of things it's all kind of geared up to this moment but do you think they're going to stop henpecking the like you know they're going to keep doing this until they win in that sense because that's what

they've always done is like it's always been a kind of larger shaping of perception right and I think that if you get enough boxers and they're able to kind of get a foot hold on it. It gets very interesting because I don't know. I don't I don't they don't lose right. Have we seen Dana lose in these situations? It just feels like he's always won. They always went. That's the other part two is that they consistently win. So they whether or not it's good or bad, it's inevitable. Now there. Eddie heard stuff is interesting though like just like they have been playing nice, right? Like kind of. They've been respectful of each other. I feel like if that's a facade like it's kind of ending at this point. Don't you think? I mean, I feel like, I feel like

they're kind of sniping now more than more than anything else. And him and Oscar, obviously, Dana, that's been burned for a while. But with Eddie, you're right, that they kind of played nice. But I mean, Eddie is not, Eddie is not an idiot.

He has to know that they're coming for him. What I think is kind of funny is the sanctioning bodies were all like, yeah, we're not worried about Zufa boxing. You fucking idiots. Well, and in a way, indirectly, that's part of the problem. That kind of stubborn, like, idiocy. You know what I mean? I'm like, dude, you should pay attention to what's coming at you here.

They just, the reality is there is, I mean, Turkey is obviously a very big and powerful force in boxing. I don't want to minimize that. But what I want to say is boxing has no power player like the UFC. They don't exist in boxing. You are allowing an entrant to the market, assuming that the laws get changed, which I suspect that they will. But to put a bow on this, you're allowing. someone into boxing that heretofore has not existed, you motherfuckers have no concept of what you're up against. But you're about to find out. Trust me. All right. It's a simplification too, right? Like I always said, the barrier of entry in boxing has always been a little bit complicated. The alphabet, all the different belts, the different weight classes. And so if you looked at the UFC's model, you always say like,

oh, I get it. You know, that guy is 135 pounds. He's the champion. It was a much easier approach to get into. And I feel like that's going to be a, uh, something that the UFC tries to bring to boxing, which is the simplification of what you're looking at. So like the barrier of entry is way easier for fans to get into it and understand exactly what they're looking at. Yeah, the problem is you've got to watch Callum Walsh. We'll talk about that in a minute.

All right. Chuck, is it, is it, now one thing that BC and I have done to great effect over the years is baselessly speculate like two fucking idiots. So we're going to ask you to do something along those traditional lines. Is it my imagination, or does White not sound particularly enthusiastic or at least maybe optimistic or you'll see about the idea of Tuporia basically fighting the winner of Gae Pimbley on a reasonable timeline? We've got an answer for this. Let's watch the tape and then see what you think.

ERA, so what can fans expect? What are you excited for? Yeah, I mean, it's a great card. Like you said, the main event is fun and title implications. and everybody wants the winner of this fight to fight Ilya to Porea. See how that plays out throughout the year? And then the Kayla Harrison and Manonanus fight

is the greatest women's fight of all time. Now, since this moment, Chuck, Toporia had kind of intimated in Spanish media. He's looking at maybe, I think, end of second quarter, maybe more sounded like third quarter. Yeah. Which, that timing could work. I don't know that would be ideal, but you could do it.

What is your sense now about whether that will happen? I mean, I feel like it's up in the air, right? This is one of those strange atmospheres that sometimes a star will create just because of the gravity that they pull in. And there's a lot of eyes on him. I think that the UFC probably views Ilya at this point as kind of like a, you know, maybe it's biggest star. And if you see kind of the tabloid response like that he got just walking to court and things like that, I think they want to just put their foot on the gas pedal with him and the Paramount Plus era and move. And you can sense there's a big time frustration, right, with this whole thing.

And I think that that uncertainty, I don't think the UFC loves this kind of drama because a lot of times when you get people with personal issues that are kind of keeping them away from competing. When the personal, like if they come and intervene, I just feel like the UFC has navigated that very well. we haven't seen a lot of this type of thing exactly, at least in a person like in this spot that Iliotiporia is in. So I feel like what you're catching there is the first glimpse of some frustration of maybe not knowing and maybe not being confident that something like that's going to have. Maybe it's already planting the seeds that, hey, we're going to watch this fight on January 24th, and it might not be Ilya Tuporia, who's the dangling carrot behind it.

The reality is to, and I don't know how you feel about it, I would love for you to tell me here, which is what it i will honestly say this i am not prepared in any way whatsoever to say i don't because i don't think it's true that the espn era of the ufc was some kind of failure that that really does not seem accurate to me however however you could never get to your damn pay-per-views when you're trying to order them and i you know what the fuck was that i mean you know you've got i wanted to fucking kill those people but okay i mean not really i'm being facetious but what the fuck guys oh man but that's part of fight night all right go ahead but the truth is chuck if i if i'm trying to pinpoint the biggest challenge that i do think that the ufc has in the

paramount era it is that at from the beginning of the espn era to the end of the espn era it is not i don't i do not believe that the evidence suggests that mama got more popular certainly not in the united states in fact i think it declined to a degree now not substantially so but It was not as good as it was when it first started, which is kind of surprising because you would have thought it would have elevated it, which means to me, there's a larger set of forces in play and that ESPN might have been good about minimizing perhaps some of the kind of slide. I think the biggest challenge that they have is in doing it. And so all the points that you raise, Chuck, here's the issue is that they would love to be able to say, hey, this next person gets tophoria, but they don't know that. It's just so uncertain. They can't commit to it.

And so to me, building stars that the North American market can rally behind, even in the absence of pay-per-view, Chuck, is going to be one of the biggest tests of the UFC and Paramounts combining might in the next seven years. I truly believe that. 100%. And was it you, I feel like it was you who's pointing out that you have these Dagestani, you know, grinding types who may not have the most aesthetically pleasing style. and, you know, just Russian, like these Russian wrestlers. And you wonder at some point, because if you imagine a world where all these guys are just able to break through, let's say that, you know, Mossar is able to kind of break through and he wins. And you keep getting these guys who are maybe not your best seller, especially in North American audience and certainly not in the kind of aesthetic of what you want, which is guys going in there for finishes. And you have guys who are now winning decisions one-sidedly, and you have too much of that. you can see it being a detriment.

And I start to wonder in this new model, you know, and we've talked to, like I've been talking about this a lot, like the meritocracy may shift. There may not be a meritocracy. But I really wonder if you're going to see the kind of John Fitch treatment of a lot of these fighters that are coming up, just not getting the shots.

You know what I mean? Because I, it seems to me you could have an era very quickly where it would just be, you have a bunch of Russian and Dagestan champions. And that would not be a good look. for a North American eyes, especially in a new era like this. And I agree with you 100% man. It's kind of been

plateauing in a strange way. And I, you know, you try to pinpoint exactly what it is if it's inundation of cards, if it's just too many events or whatever it is. But I feel like that's where they're going to have to look at this. If they're going to distinguish themselves on a new platform where this is the first time where they're not kind of a flagship, you know,

going in like with ESPN Plus, they were kind of, well, this is the reason to get ESPN Plus. Paramount already existed. Paramount already has programming. and they're just part of new programming. So how do you distinguish yourself and how do you continue to rise? And I feel like that is 100% the UFC's maybe for the first time and a long time, their new kind of challenge in this whole thing. Yeah, this is the reality is, you know, with these Russian guys,

I mean, you've got two problems. On the one hand, you can actually be not one of these wrestler types. You can be an exciting striker type. But if you don't speak English and you're not a dynamic personality, that can hurt you. even if you're a winning fighter. And on the other side, Chuck, the reality is there's always been like ground and pound guys, to your point, like, you know, John Fitch, take down ground and pound types.

But it was never like a situation where there was almost like a regional issue with it, where like so many from one particular part on the map you could circle had similar kinds of skill sets. That that kind of scale problem was not the case. You could find guys who were a Japanese or American or Brazilian who would do it. But, you know, there wasn't a unifying geographical. force in that way. Especially one that the UFC doesn't even visit. Like the UFC doesn't visit these areas. And they're not super lucrative for them as a consequence. They can't even go do business there in that same, you know, normal kind of way. All right, but that's that

part. Getting now to the last of this, this is to me the more interesting kind of question here. Let's talk about what Armin Sarjukian basically at, excuse me, hold on. Yes. We'll see what Let's see what Armand Sorokian basically admits. I want to show you this clip about why he didn't get a title shot, because it's all related to Dana, and then see what you have to say. Some fans thought Armand should have been the one to get a 155 title pound shot. We knew that would happen, too.

Of course. Did the headbut play any factor in the decision to not go with him? It did, right? A lot of things have factored in, you know. Yeah. Yes. Okay. I thought for a second,

the clip was labeled in a way that I messed it up. But yes, you heard Dana there now speaking about Armand. Chuck, I have mixed feelings about this. Where do you come down on Dana's decision to not award him a title shot based on this and the conceivably other factors as well? Well, I'm interested to hear your opinion. But my, you know, my take on it was that this guy has been perpetually behind the eight ball ever since we kicked off last year at this time, I think, what was a UFC 311 or whatever it was. And Armand obviously falls out the 11.

7th hour is not able to uphold his obligation for a title fight. And I feel like he's been fighting from the doghouse ever since. So going into this situation, I don't know how you felt. It was cool to see Armand kind of returning in a big spotlight event, especially kind of given the spotlight of being on TV and stuff like that in a moment that was kind of being dubbed a number one considered to fight like he should be the guy right if he wins. but as soon as he went out there and did that, I was almost like, I bet you anything, if it doesn't, you know, it was a stupid thing to do.

It was a stupid thing to kind of jeopardize the fight in that way to lose, especially given your track record of what had already happened. But I immediately thought this probably factors into the UFC's decision. I don't know how you felt about it, but just because I feel like he's under different kind of scrutiny from the UFC, I certainly don't think that Dana White loves Armin's Serookin right now. it just felt like, dude, you just made another boneheaded thing. And this could, you just gave him reason essentially to overlook you in that next

title shot. That's how it struck me. I do have mixed feelings about. Okay. All right. So when, when, when Armin first did the head, but this was the UFC guitar main event before he fought Dan Hooker, I tweeted, I, like, I quote tweeted, I took the clip of it. And then I quote to you, like, you know, he's lucky that like nothing bad.

happen because obviously if you those of us who've been around a while have seen people do shit like this and then someone gets you can't believe it but it happens someone gets injured on the scales they get a cut you know whatever and then the fight is off i've literally seen this kind of shit before and so i was like this is just stupid to do it dude my mentions were filled with people being like hey you boomer ass bitch it's no big deal and i'm like do you not know anything about how commissions feel. I realize like, you know, the Qatar commission is probably a newish one and operating in a way that's, you know, closely aligned with the promotion's interest. But as a general rule, like commissions, they don't like that shit at all, at all. And I tried to

explain to people, you used to see boxing faceoffs, Chuck, where to be two guys standing there and there'd be no promoter. And then they'd fucking fist fight long before the fights are. Right. They instituted a rule that the promoter had to be there or had to provide security to prevent stuff like that happening. So fucking Arm and Sarukian headbutting people is stupid and dangerous and dumb. And I can understand whether UFC would not like that. You add on the fact that he was punching a fan previously. And it's like, dude, do you need anger management classes? Please stop doing shit that will fuck with the business. So the promotion having a degree of trepidation about, you know, awarding him a title shot, I can understand it on some level. But when you really think

about it, actually doesn't make a lot of sense. Do you really think that? Do you really think that if you gave him a title shot, I mean, I guess you could say because of the, the Makachev fight that you don't trust him to make it to the finish line. But the problem with that argument is Chuck, they've actually never told us what exactly it was. There's been rumors that he'd had something else from, you know, negligence or something. But as far as the promotions, public facing response has been that's never been an answer. More to the point, none of this would ever matter in boxing BC. Or BC, bad habits. Sorry, Chuck. There's the first one, drink. Yeah, yeah, I know. Now I have to get buzzed in my rectum by something as a consequence.

But the reality is this would never happen in boxing. It would never happen. They would just find a way to look past it. And I'm not saying that's healthy. What I'm saying is this. We have allowed the basic concept of the promoter in this particular case, working with independent contractors, which is not the case with Caleb Williams, who, you know, Caleb Williams, who, an employee of the Bears and they're part of the sort of federated league that's a very different relationship. We have just kind of allowed them to say, oh, you are not only the person that makes the rankings, which is not how we work in boxing, but you are also the person who gets to act paternalistically when you don't feel like it. And I think that's just seeding them a lot of power that should be more negotiated, but there's no one on behalf of the fighters who can negotiate this kind of stuff. The last thing I'm going to say is it's also a very convenient excuse to get them to really blow up Patty when they have an opportunity to do it. Because if they

really put Patty in front of Armin, Armin's beating the fuck out of him. That's just what's going to happen. It has occurred to me and I think like, you know, if you're running a business and, you know, you take kind of the fairness out of it and you're saying like, well, what's best for Paramount Plus first card, you're probably going to do that, right? Like, we're talking about it from like a diehard standpoint, not even diehard, but just a person, like people who are used to a meritocracy, like you're being sold something,

which was at Armand Seruka. If he gets by, Dan Hook, he's going to get a title fight. Well, that's not the way it's going to work in the end. And it's understandable in the sense that Justin Gaichi will bring a fight to Paddy Pimbley that maybe fits Patty Pimbleau's to a T and he can actually, now you can kind of build a star you know, build a star, a bigger star in this moment in the very first look at the new UFC on Paramount. So you can look at all of that.

And I mean, this kind of goes back to everything we were talking about. I feel like what they, you know, what the UFC wants, like you mentioned, just kind of on their druthers. Well, let's just do this instead. Could become rampant. You know what I mean? I think that this is one of those new situations where there used to be a larger outcry for this kind of thing. And I feel like people kind of complain about it in their breath. then they immediately accept like, man, can't wait for Patty Pimblit against Justin Gagee.

You know what I mean? Yes, totally. It's just a weird thing. It's just we allow, we've conditioned ourselves to be like, oh, the UFC has, you know, a right to not want to get in business with someone who does risky behavior. And on some level, I don't disagree with that. I think they have, their money and their interest also matters in how, matters significantly in how these kinds of bouts.

I mean, in Diego Lopez, right? Like Diego Lopez and the other fight that got made. kind of skipping the queue there, even though he just, even though Volcanozzi has already beat him and Evalov has already beat, you know, Diego back in a day without losing sense, but I mean, they're going to justify it,

how they're going to justify it, I think, going forward. That's the other part. It's just ad hoc, right? Yeah. It's just everything's ad hoc. We don't feel like it. We've got this reason. We've got that reason. Meanwhile, last thing on this, did you see Armin, like, I think he tech-falled, Lance Palmer,

who. Yeah, I did see that. Lance Palmer has made the most amount of money in North America. for an MMA fighter that basically nobody knows. That's so true. Right? I think he won two PFL tournaments. He made money. In any event, he just, he destroyed him over an R.A.F. So he's staying busy doing that.

Chuck, before we get to topic number three, I noticed in the background there, you have an old school Denver helmet. Is that right? Yes, it is, sir. I think they wore this one from like the 70s all the way to 97 or 98. But yeah, old school. Yeah, definitely old school. They are playing who this weekend in the NFL playoffs.

On Saturday, they'll be playing the Buffalo Bills, a rematch from last year's playoffs. But this time, it's in Denver. So I feel like we'll get a little bit of a different outcome here. Bro, I just got back from fucking Bogota, Columbia. I don't know how, I mean, it's a little higher than Denver, but the thinness of the air, I don't know how y'all do it out there. I know you're not there anymore.

You've been, you were pretty high when you're out there last time. I remember seeing you at, oh, yeah. I went to a dispensary out there. I was, you know, they got me good. I will say that Josh Allen, Josh Allen played college ball at Wyoming, which is at a higher elevation than Denver. So I don't know how much it'll factor in for him specifically.

And he's actually the element of terror for the Denver Broncos going into that game. Well, I got to tell you, Chuck, here's what we need to let the audience know. The NFL playoffs, as we just indicated, have arrived. It's win or go home. And by the way, the Philadelphia Eagles are going home. do love that. And with pick six, Draft King's newest fantasy pick-em game,

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and I'm looking here. Let me get your opinion on this. passing yards. They got CJ Stroud at 228 and a half passing yards. You think you're taking more or less on on that. Gosh, I'm going to say less. And part of that is just Pittsburgh on Monday nights is just ridiculous. Like, it doesn't matter if playoffs or not. They've won like six in a row on Monday nights. And they're tough to play there, man. And their defense shows up in games like this. Aaron Rogers, 203 and a half. I probably would take the under on that. I don't know how I believe about that. Also, for let's see for receiving yards.

How about D.K. Metcalf? Obviously, he's playing four the Steelers against Houston. 44, excuse me, 54 and a half. I might take the over on that. I think the over on that. And I'll tell you why. He is on house money right now.

He got suspended for the last two games of the season. He gets reinstated like because they are in this position. I don't think he thought they were going to make it. Now he's like a man led out of jail. I think he has a big game. I agree. And here's how you guys can get in on the action yourself. course, you can compete against your peers and climb the leaderboard.

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in partnership with Draft Kings pick six. The crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800-Gambler. In Connecticut, call 8887-8-9-77-7-77 or visit DCPG.org, 18 plus in most states, void in New York, Ontario, and where prohibited. Restrictions apply one per new customer, bonus awarded as non-withdrawable pick-6 credits that expired 14 days. Terms at pick6.draftings.com slash promos limited time offer all right uh chuck topic number three so since we were on last there's been just basically a gazillion different fight announcements some more interesting than others let's talk about the ones that appeal a little bit more to me we were doing some digging on the show chuck and we don't have anything to announce but we're just looking at who's available let's put up this

graphic if we can this is women's straw weight so everyone who is in red there has a fight booked, which means McKenzie, obviously, is the champion, does not. Jean-Wi-Li. Lee does not. Yon-Shaun-N-N does not. And then after that, we're not talking about people who are going to be getting title shots. And of course, Zhang Wai Li, Yon-Shaun-N-S could fight again, Chuck, but there would be no point to that exactly. In other words, what I'm saying to you is in a world where Jangeiroba Ritchie has been,

yeah, exactly, where Jangiraburiburich has been made, or Suarez, these are, by the way, great fights. are you interested in Dern versus Jean Wiley if that's the former champions first fight back at Straw Wade? It kind of feels inevitable. And I mean, you get a situation where Jean Waley, she leaves the division,

she goes and chases history, it doesn't work out. We knew that this could be an eventuality. I think that a lot of people were like, does she come back, does she stay there? But to lose the way she did to Valentina doesn't leave her a good reason to stay up and wait. So I feel like the natural move if she wants to continue, which I think the indications are that she does want to continue, is to go back down and kind of rightfully claim what is hers. And let's face it, I don't know how you feel about this, man, but McKinsey Dern, that was a cool thing. It was cool. She got to fight John Derobe. She was able to, like, you know, do work kind of really show a full 180 evolution from the time she started in the sport. And she was so raw on the feet and all that stuff to the time where she's kind of landing good combination. nations and actually looks competent and is able to get it done in such a way and win a title.

But it feels a little bit like masquerading, right? Because I think when you look at with Zhang Wai Li, it's like she was so dominant. It was almost like the Rose Namibunis, those losses galvanized her, like in the way that Matt, Sarah, you know, galvanized GSP. It just put her on another level where she was never going to be complacent. She was only going to be better. She's going to be obsessed with it. And I just feel like at that weight, she's still the best.

So I feel like she's going to come back and get what's hers. And unfortunately, I would take all the pictures I could. If I'm McKinsey during, I'm taking all the pictures I can. I'm shooting up all the vents, all the red carpet with my belt because I feel like it's a short-lived thing that she's got going on there. Yeah, I agree with that she's older. And also, to the point you raise, I mean, was there a skill difference between Shevchenko and Zhang Wiley? Maybe on some level, probably with the wrestling and top control, you could say that. But like, it just felt like the size was insurmountable.

Oh, yeah. And so what and Manofi or O, not for nothing, also big and physical for that weight class. Like what is really the plan? She was kind of working Shevchenko a little bit early in that fight. So busted her face up. Yeah. Yep. But to the point you raise, like, no, if you want to compete, you got to go back down.

Dern's got no one basically. Right. Just kind of seems like that is inevitable. All right. Some other ones we have here as well. Well, one of the great stories, Chuck, of 2025 was Milky Costa. Just an incredible run he had there. He's now making his run up the 145 divisions contendership queue with about now opposite of Dan 50K Ege.

This will be on the main card of UFC Houston. That's the one headline by Sean Strickland and Fluffy Hernandez. Is Ege too much of a challenge for the Surgeon Costa or just exactly the right one? I do think he's a big escalation of talent for a challenge. But I think that's the right move. What is he ranked like something like 14th in the UFC's rankings? I know he's like he's in the rankings. He's in their rankings.

And you kind of need like Danig is one of the guys who I think in the public's mind or at least the fight public's mind has hovered around contendorship. Maybe he's not the guy, but he's always kind of in that space where like he could be lurking. So I feel like you kind of get that veteran juice from a from a ranked guy. who won't overpower. I think Dan Igay's probably a little longer in the tooth and maybe not the same guy he was a few years ago. So I think it's a good escalation

if you're trying to get a guy over and give it and let him prove it against like a veteran who's been there and done that. Dan Igay, as you indicated, I don't know if it's my computer or his, but Dan Igay, as you indicated, still ranked 14th. I just double-checked. He's still ranked 14th. And I'm not saying that this is Neil Magdie territory.

That's not my point. But I am saying, Ege is well-rounded. He is experienced. He's not the best featherweight, but he's a very good one. He's a clear, like, are you somebody who's going to make a little noise? You're only going to be that guy if you can get past damn. Like, you're not going to be that guy if you can't, right? So it's a great opportunity for him there as well.

Okay, another, yeah, by the way, as we indicated, longest active win streaks in the UFC featherweight division with six right now. The only two above him are the guys who arguably have title shots, or at least should be having title shots, I should say, in both story of Loy of and then Lorone Murphy. By the way, don't sleep on Steve Garcia, who also had a great 2025. Okay, now speaking of more Neil Magni types, Walter Walker is going to face Marching Tibera.

This would be at the UFC Seattle card, I believe. Now, here's why I bring up the Neil Magni part, because Marching Tabora kind of sort of serves in that role at heavyweight. In other words, if you can't beat him, for sure you're not going to do shit in this division. But if you can't, it at least gets you. to the next spot. Do you like the matchup? Yeah.

I mean, and I think that because he's such a while, he's like 40 years old. The dude's been around forever. And I think that like when you get a guy like that. Tybora. Yeah, Tybora. And if you're 40 years old, so we're talking about him in that Neil Magnet role.

I think that what he presents is a wileiness to not get caught in a first round heel hook. You know what I mean? Like in the way, it was just basically been Walker's kind of bread and butter through his UFC career. So far, I think that.

I think he's going to force Walker to kind of show us something else. Maybe go into the deeper waters a little bit. We'll see. It could go either way, but this fight obviously is all about a guy who's 28 years old. You have a division where it's just difficult to get guys in their 20s who are ready to kind of take out these staples that have been there forever and just kind of beat each other up at the top. I think that that's where it's kind of the intrigue, right? It's like, Vultz is coming up and he gets this chance to kind of break through against a guy that most people, if you follow the fight, game, you know who Marcin Taboru is. So I think that it's the right challenge. And I think we get to

see probably something new in this fight from him. By the way, this card, not for nothing, is pretty great. It's got the worst name if you're Dana White for the arena, climate pledge. I know he doesn't like that. But the main event, Alexa Grasso, Macy Barber, that's a banger. That's a great fight. Marching Tumbrough versus Walter Walker. That's got some, it's got importance for the division at a very minimum, although I have to say heavyweight is. Yes, bad, man. All the more reason they need this guy to break through. I mean, you need new dudes to break through, right?

They just need Gable Steven. Again, I'm not. He's a troubled figure, but, yeah. As just a guy who can win. Like, it's just, it seems like it's inevitable. Three times the champion is Daniel Corme, I will say that. Right. Whatever the fuck that means.

By the way, a guy who, a University of Maryland guy, Mansor Abdul Malik, who's undefeated, taking on U.S. Re, Bill Garugi. I don't know how to pronounce his last name, but he's, you know, the middleweight. also a pretty interesting about there as well. Okay, going further down the list here if I can. It's going to be Ozzy on Ozzy crime, Chuck, when Jamie Malarky, who's replacing wrong Zhu, takes on Quillen Saul killed, who arguably had the KIO of the year. You can see the tweet here from Bendaman 2001. It's only the fifth time that there's been an Aussie versus Ozzy match in UFC

history. That's crazy. Isn't that wild? They don't really, it's kind of funny. too because it's it's you know it's funny right so they go to brazil and they always book brazilians versus somebody else right and then the crowd is always like you're going to die they love that kind of thing right yes but i didn't know that they i didn't know that they that's obviously a format they're going to take everywhere i just didn't know it was so strictly held in australia as well i will tell you malarkey i'm not super high on i mean he's good he plays a role so killed might be pretty good we don't know that yet, but I feel like this might tell us a little bit more. Well, he's,

Markey's definitely a guy who's been around. I think he's, I think I'd look this up before. Like, he's like, he's perfect six and six. You know, and the Osses. So he's like, he's going to be the middle of the room. Yeah, 500. I think that that's the kind of guy.

Like if you, if you are, you know, Sal Qaeda's like the guy we think he is or he could be, especially after that knockout of halfgrass. I think that he could do work on this and, and make, make his name even that much bigger. I feel like he was one of those guys who carried that intrigue into the new year. And I think it's a fun matchup.

I'm just shocked that this is only the fifth time because they've been to Australia so many times. You think that they would inevitably have to have some Aussie versus Aussie action. Yo, Long Island, I know this one is making your balls itch because it's two Aussies. And none of them have any Long Island connection. How are you sizing this one up? Quill and Salca is going to be a huge favorite in this. I just message you guys both. Jamie Malarki's been knocked out.

and three of his last five. Oh, man. We've seen what Saul Kild can do. I feel like Saul Kilt's putting his lights out, but I'll be watching. It'll be good. Yeah, for sure. I'll be watching that one as well.

And then last, specifically, and at least, again, there were other matchups that were announced during the time off. We're just kind of focusing on some of the ones that stand out a little bit more. But this is the one I'd love for you to speak on because I know you're going out there to cover it.

Zufa Boxing's debut main event is actually going to be the Friday before UFC 324. And it's going to be at the apex. It'll be on January 23rd. of course, just like UFC, this is going to air on Paramount Plus. So if you're a UFC fan and you've got Paramount Plus, this will be available to you.

It's going to be Callum Walsh versus Carlos Ocampo. I asked to BC about this when they, I think a while ago, I think we had known about it for some time on the boxing side of things. And, you know, he didn't seem super high or super down on it. Just kind of non-plus one-wood direction. I don't want to speak for him. I'm just giving you, you know, what I recall from the conversation. He's jaded, you know.

Yeah, well, yeah, of course. He didn't say it was bad. He didn't, he didn't shit on the fight. But he was, you know, it's like, it's, here's the thing about Callum Walsh. And this is what I want to pitch to you, Chuck. Okay. He's not a bad fighter,

but I don't understand why Dana White is so high on him. I'm glad you said it. And I'm honestly, Dana White, I'm going to say this out loud. Dana White is not nearly as good an evaluator of talent as someone like Sean Shelby and presumably Mick Maynard as well. But I can speak for Sean personally.

I know him a little bit better. Like, he keeps, He doesn't have an eye for talent in that way. You've seen that meme? You're not that guy, pal. Yes. Like, Calum, you're not that guy, pal. Yeah.

How are you feeling about all of this? I mean, the atmosphere is going to be lit. You know what I mean? Like going into that Atex show. But in fact that they, like, they didn't even announce it until like, what? I don't even know when this came out. Like for the longest time we didn't even know. I know exactly.

So like the fact that it's, this feels very much like a soft opening, you know, like a soft launch for, for Zufa Boxing. I will say, man, I was at Callum Walsh's fight at Madison Square, the theater over there during St. Patrick's Day. And I think he was fighting. Dean Sutherland was not the one the kid. But anyway, I was at that fight. And I was trying to figure out exactly what you're talking about,

which is, okay, who is this guy and what is, you know, what are they seeing? I mean, who am I sitting right next to? Other than your boy, Big E, by the way, who came up and said hello and he said to say hello to you guys, was Dana White and Hunter Campbell. and they were just rap. You know, they were watching it. They were mooting. And I felt like they were more into it than anybody in that fan base.

And there was a lot of Irishmen there. So it was a very interesting kind of thing going on. And obviously you got the Freddie Roach connection. And you've got like, you know, the Irish connection, which Dana has had some luck with. I don't know if he's looking to kind of catch lightning in a bottle a second time. But I feel like this kid, he's so far from that. right now. I know they're high on them, but this seems to me like for the first Zoufa face, like it feels a little risky to me. You know what I mean? I will say that you do like the

matchup in terms of, I know that this is a guy who's stood in there against some champion spot for belts. Do you like the matchup for Callum in this fight? I think it's a reasonably fine matchup for a next thing to do. It doesn't blow my skirt up, but not a disaster. It's not a backwards step as best I can tell. It's fine. I think to me, I don't mind that Zufa boxing is doing a soft launch. I actually think it's pretty smart to like not out there. We're just going to, we're going to spend all the money in the world together.

I think that part is fine. Apex is okay. You don't mind that either? Well, okay. I mean, it would have been nice at least, right,

for like a little poems or I know they don't go to the poems anymore, but you know, one of those small 1500. So I call, so I call, speaking of Biggie, I still call fights for XFC. Yeah.

Or I did last year. I'm not signed a new deal yet. I think I'll get one. But, you know, Well, anyway, I called one of the fights in the Virgin Hotel right off the street. It's like, it teabones the strip. It's not on the strip, but it's right by. Dude, that fucking theater ruled.

Yeah. It was amazing. And there was, you know, this is for not a UFC event. And the atmosphere was fucking great. The Vegas crowd was great. I don't know. I don't understand why they couldn't do something like that. I don't quite get it.

Just because, I mean, honestly, the one thing you probably want is some kind of infectious thing about it right where you're like watch it and you can kind of feel some kind of magnitude to it like or some meaning the apex shows and i mean maybe maybe this is a different audience i don't think so i think there's going to be kind of a crossover audience but the apex shows man i don't know if you like it takes something away from the action um i tried to get passed for a long time but over the last year or two i mean it takes something away from the action for me you need that live atmosphere you need that energy in the room and that's hard to produce at the apex let me ask you are they going to be having the expanded seating available for this event?

You know, I've heard almost nothing. In fact, I mean, I don't know if I'm given too much information. I'm trying to just apply for the credentials and they haven't even put that link up yet. So it's like I feel like a lot of this is just kind of a makeshift operation. I would assume since it's the first one that they are doing that, but that's just an assumption. I haven't really been told anything. Bro, they got to hire more people at that organization, which I can't believe because it's already so big. but like I went to the media room so I was in Vegas for um I think I was there to do a podcast

with somebody else but I was there long enough where it was the fight week of Canelo Crawford I told the story and have you have you been to the fountain blue the new hotel there no I haven't been there it's so it's it's so nice I don't know how they make money like I don't know who can afford shit like that but it's really really nice anyway we go up the the floor where they were having all the the ballrooms or all all the events were in the media area was like the seventh floor. So we go up there and I was like, you know, because the way I criticize UFC,

I was like, I don't know if I was going to be let in. I, you know, I just don't know how that's going to go. And I get up there and I'm like, I'm looking for the media room for blah, blah, blah. And the UFC staff are like,

yeah, it's over there. And I'm like, do you want to see my ID? They're like, we don't care. It's like, that's hilarious.

And they are normally very like security is very tight. I think they were so overrun. Yeah. With trying to, because remember, Canilla Crawford took place the same time there was a UFC Noce, right? Not the sphere, but I think it was in San Antonio.

Oh, you're talking about the one. Yes, yes, yes, yes, the one that just happened. Canela Crawford, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think they were so overwhelmed that they were just like, you know what, you can go. Like, we don't care. You know, I was like, God damn, that's highly unusual. Long Island Luke, any other matchups I did not include here that have tickled your fancy since we're in this bit of this UFC hiatus. I don't know when they announced it, but I saw Sergey Spivox fighting Ante Delia. I feel like that's a fun heavyweight fight, top 10 guys. Not bad, not bad.

But yeah, they did just have a slew of announcements. I feel like besides those women's strawweight fights, which we didn't really go over, Swares versus who she's fighting, Lupi Godinez, and then Tabitha Ritchie taken on Fearna Jandrova. Those are, you know, top ten matchups. Are you going to hold real quickly? Oh, go ahead, good. One more time here, Long Island.

Are you going to watch Zufo Boxing 1? I'm not going to make it like priority. Like, you know, if my girlfriend wants to do something that night, I'll go do something with her. But, you know, if I happen to be home and bored, I'll turn it on. Well, I think, I feel like counting on MMA fans to watch your boxing in the apex. That's, you know, again, I don't mind the soft launch, but that shit ain't going to work long time.

I know. I mean, it's almost like they've set the expectation fairly low. So for them to exceed the bar that, you know what I mean? I feel like they've set the expecting low. So maybe that's maybe that's part of the strategy here. Last thing on this, I also think in terms of what Zufa boxing is doing, I think they're just running out the clock.

Like top rank still has no TV deal, no real TV deal. PBC, I don't know. I mean, it's obviously a better question for BC, but I have no fucking idea of their health. It does not look great. You know, I think they're just kind of waiting for all of it to kind of. And then by the way, obviously, but one thing I'll say too is I do know that I was told by, you know,

a very, very reliable source on Capitol Hill that TKO wanted this legislation passed last year. They didn't want to get to this point because you may not know this. Budget negotiations are coming up again in the next month or so, and that will just preempt everything as a consequence. And so stuff like this can just kind of get pushed way down the legislative priority, and they didn't want to do that. That does not mean I'm saying that it won't pass. What I am saying is Zufa and TKO wanted to get in front of this.

and now they're not, they're going to get behind it. So that could impact the timing of the wind of this passes. All right. Let's go to this. Topic number four. So this is a fun little one. We have always talked on this show like what exactly does an MMA manager do? And in certain cases, for example, MMA managers can also have law degrees.

So they have the ability to go through any kind of offer you're made, whether it's for a sponsorship or even from another promoter, and at least see some of the language to prevent you from being totally taken for a ride or otherwise agreeing to potentially unfair terms, except, well, the nature of how the MMA industry works has kind of always made us wonder, are they really managers or are they more brokers? We got some kind of answer to that, or at least part of the beginning of an answer, I suppose, depending on how you want to look at it, based on some text messages that were released. Now, credit goes to John Nash of Hey, Not the Face, and if you don't subscribe to his substack, you should. I pay for his substack because he does journalism.

I don't know that it's the most listened to podcast in the world, but who cares? What it does is provide information you basically would not get anywhere else. And so I pay for it. I recommend the rest of you do it as well. So here's the scenario, Chuck. there are text messages between UFC matchmaker Mick Maynard and then MMA manager Marcello Brigadero

and the reason why we have these is because in Brazilian court Tila Santos who you might recall former UFC fighter she got her ass kicked by Dakota Ditch of NPRFL She was in Valentina though Close fight Close fight

Took her back, had it for a while Didn't do fuck all else with it but did do that she sued Brigadero in Brazilian court for breach of contract. This was some time ago. Now, the resolution to that case is that Brigadero was not held liable. The breach of contract, according to the Brazilian court system, was not established. But nevertheless, in the process of this court case, these documents came out. Now, we cannot show you all of them.

Let's take a look at some of them here. But there are two kind of interesting ones. right where here you have Mick Banner being like a four-fight new deal 23 and 23 up threes Brigadero says let me speak to him but I'm happy with that is the fight confirmed yes Brigadero beautiful Mick is there any room for improvement

on those numbers I wouldn't do it but Sue is friends with Song Yadong and he found out he renewed his contract after his third fight for 4545 and is pushing me for something better than 23 23 mick says it should be 2020 but I was trying to be nice Mick, one win against a flyweight who is 0 and 2. And then Brigadero says, you are nice.

By the way, if you see the letter K a bunch of times, I'm told that in Brazilian Portuguese, that's similar to LOL or ha, ha, ha. Okay. And then Mick says, let me know if he wants this new deal or prefers to fight it out. Right now he has faced the lower level of the division, one person in the division, in fact, that is 0 and 2.

And then Marcello, without really much of any kind of pushback at all, just says he will take. take it. Also, there's another point where he asked for Tila Santos to get, or somebody else, I should say, to get, maybe it was Tila, to get a 12 and 12 contract and they only got a 10 and 10. Oh yeah, Arnea, here's that case. And it's only 10 and 10. And then he says, you only get 12 and 12 if you fill in on short notice. Otherwise, it is 10 and 10. Throw that back up her one more time. And then this is them discussing.

Mick says, Ariane, Carna Losa, we'll take the fight versus Talia. Brigadero says, okay, Mick's like, good to go. That's a fun fight, I think. Brigadero responds, you know I don't turn down fights. Let's go. Mick says, awesome, thank you. Brigadero says, buy me a drink this time, deal.

Okay, Chuck. Yeah. I don't think that this is the sum total of how all managers speak to all UFC matchmakers, but to the extent that this is at all representative, your major takeaway is? I think it's more common than you're saying. I mean, I really feel like a lot of

a lot of the correspondence probably goes along these lines. And the first thing you notice is that the manager is ceding any kind of leverage just, oh yeah, well, you know, we'll take it, whatever. Like he just so over-eager. And I mean, this is what they would tell you in any kind of negotiations you don't seem over-eager, right? Like when you're trying to talk about numbers and it just steers one direction. And I mean, were you ever in a situation, Luke, where like you were, you know, at the, you're at the UFC event, like, and you're at the bar and who would always be there?

There'd be Joe Silva and there'd be Sean Shelby. They'd be hanging around late night. And I think they really loved times to, like, hang out with a couple of journalists and, like, shoot the shit. And they would just kind of tell you. I mean, it was off record. I mean, you're not interviewing them or anything. But they would just tell you shit. They would just tell you what's going on.

And a lot of common, and you would see occasionally the managers come by and they'd have these conversations. A lot of it was like this. It was just kind of very casual, hey, what are we doing? What's the word on this? Or, you know, and kind of assigning the values. And it's not wrong. You know, when you look at the kind of negotiation, it's like, I'm being nice to do 23 because the comparisons there. It's not wrong, right? Like you're saying, like, well, that is kind of an absurd comparison. The two guys are not really in the same situation there. but it's funny because it's just like this very delicate stepping on you know the the kind of hope there the kind of and i think that that's i think it's common i think that these are like i remember talking to joe sylvan he was like people think that we just make fights you know and they're like oh what an invious job wish i could do that and he's like they don't see these negotiated where you have to be a hard ass you know they don't see that you have to like you know set these uh you know

set these guys like and tell them what's going on not just that but then you have to call them and cut them and tell their managers that they've been cut from the UFC and all this. It's interesting to look at it, though. You know, it's like, it's interesting to see two guys kind of talking like that, especially with the kind of buddy bro like, hey, man, you owe me a drink this time, though. You know what I mean? It just threw me right back. Seeing all this threw me right back to those days when you'd see Sean Shelby and Joe Silva

hanging out and, you know, they would just kind of talk like this. I, I don't know. There's some MMA managers that I know, and there are some that I know, well, there's a bunch that I don't know at all. Yeah. Like, for example, I don't know if I've ever had a conversation with Jason House. Like, genuinely, I don't know if I've had two words of conversation with him, if even that. But, you know, because he's right.

Big Zach Brian guy. I went to a concert with him one time. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. He brought Diego Lopez. I did this piece on Diego Lopez. Oh, that's right.

And then he was, he, he's like good buddies with him. And they got us like some VIP areas. It was crazy to watch a concert like that. Yeah. but there's other ones that I've known for a long time and I know pretty well and the better ones that I know the real job that they do is securing the fighter's wealth outside of fighting. Yeah. Like so for example, getting them the best medical care, they're their help with that. You know, saying no to some things like putting some guardrails on it.

But really like, for example, if they do street. or something like that, you know, making sure that that money gets invested the right way. And they take care of like their media opportunities. But when it comes to dealing with UFC, they don't, they don't, they don't do anything because they can't. Right. There is nothing to. I mean, I get.

I mean, that's not quite true. I mean, you, you always have a choice. But in the sense of if you wish to maintain visibility and life in the industry, this is what you do. It's more like shaking a can. Help me, sir. Because if you, if it's not like that, what is he going to say? We'll accept 30 for 30.

30, 30, right? We'll accept 30. McManor just saying no. I mean, they don't need. There's no leverage there. It would just be like, no, that's not worth it. And that would be the end of it, right? I mean, there's only one side of that that has any real say and what's happening there.

I know. The guy's like, oh, I wanted closer to 45, 45, 45, on 23, 23. He's like, you're lucky it's not 2020. I know. But that also tells you is that they just have a formulation. system 100% you know what I mean like oh they'll give you a bump but the bump people think like oh like I've seen managers be like yo I secured my guy a big bump you secured your guy a bump in a system where the people giving the bump already knew what it was going to be like you didn't

you know you didn't like you know ring out extra dollars from the you know from the proverbial washball thing run out or something like that it doesn't it'd be tough man like imagine negotiating with the UFC's right imagine like you're because even in like these the bigger concern obviously is if you really believe in Sue, right? Like you think in four fights, this dude will be, you're going to, he's going to make Song you don't look like nothing, you know. But you're just, you've just signed a contract. What was it for four fights where you're going up in increments of three?

I mean, like, you're, you're, you're going to shoot, your value's going to shoot right past your contract just like that. So it's a tough spot. But they should, I mean, literally it should be in the, in that kind of interest fighting for their fighter. But we know how it works, man. I mean, I think that certain managers get. certain privileges and, you know, there's certain guys who get, like, there's the guys who manage

and they play the game end up maybe in, you know, their guys get title shots a little quicker or stuff like that. You know what I mean? Like, it's all par for the course of what we know about this sport and how these things work. I'll just say, like, this is, again, is this the sum total? I don't know. Probably not. But is this, does this match your experience and my experience? Yes. This matches it exactly. Just something to keep in mind for the future. All right. Last but not least, if we can, because we're fucking loser degenerates on this show.

Let's talk about John Jones. So John Jones did, has done a bunch of interviews recently and he sort of had a lot to say, Chuck. And he recently revealed in an interview that Dana White was unlikely to book him versus Alex Pereira at the UFC White House event. Of course, to be on Trump's birthday in June. Now, this comes after by him very publicly. pleading by Jones to be booked for that fight, certainly on that date. What does it say and mean for the future of Jones's participation, Chuck, in the UFC, for however long it lasts, that Dana appears to have waived on this opportunity?

You know how we're talking about Armand? There's something there. We're like, well, the UFC's just pissed off at him in general. Like, he's, don't you get, I know that we were just talking about how, you know, Dana's, he's on Stephen A's. So he's talking about John Jones. He mentions the goat status all the time. And I think he keeps that as a backpack because I think he genuinely

believes that. And I think he's telling the truth in his mind like this is a guy who's the goat. But I think he's pissed at him, man. You remember when this, when it came out, and I was obviously after John retired and then like, what was it, 10 days later, two weeks later, he unretires, he starts talking about the

White House and Dana White said something along the lines of, that's a one and a billion chance. So he wouldn't, he wouldn't give him that fight because the implication was he wouldn't be trustworthy in that sort of situation. And yet John Jones, like you mentioned, was kind of publicly, you know, he was even at the, whatever it was like the awards term, was it the espies or something. He was talking about it. He's saying, I really want that card and kind of lobbying for it.

So there's a little bit of a surprise that Dana didn't see, like, kind of come around a little bit more and say, like, well, listen, man, this guy seems, this seems to be what he's circled. And if this is the best way to rope John Jones back in there, given that I think he's the goat and all that stuff. then let's do it. It's a little surprising, but I get the sense that he's just pissed at him. Like, what is your sense on? I feel like he's kind of, I've seen other interviews where John Jones's name is brought up,

and you can tell that all's not as rosy as it should be with that guy. This is the part where I'm weird on. It's like, okay, look, I mean, how can anybody trust John Jones to do anything other than fuck things up, either his opponents or himself or, you know, three times and vacated twice. I mean, five times he's lost his belt without losing the belt. He's, you know, he's irredeemable.

But the reality is if you're going to be in business with him, you do have to use him. So how are you going to use him? I'm not saying, Chuck, that they have to put him on the White House card. It's really not my point. And again, I totally, in this particular case, I mean, if there is a reason to have trepidation about the ability to be professional of any fighter, it's John Jones. and I certainly understand Dana White and the UFC team's trepidation about it. But if you're going to use him, that's true of literally any card. Okay, the stakes of the White House card are a little bit higher for a number of reasons.

Fine. But what I'm trying to point out to you is, is John Jones versus Poetan at the White House, if you're going to stay in business with him, is that a good use of your time? in a non-main event setting, yes. And like the truth is, again, am I clamoring to see it? No, what I think UFC should have done is after he retired, like, go fucking pound sand. And I know he'd go make money for PFL for a little while. How many times would he fight with PFL?

How much of a difference would that make? It'd make virtually no difference. But it's not the game that they want to play ever. We know the story. So I'm just pointing out, like, if you're not going to use him for that, what are you going to use him for exactly? That's the part I don't like because they're going to suck up a bunch of the championship fights on the calendar for that June slot.

Maybe they're just thinking we'll just put up what you know, we're going to save one big fight for after that or something like that. Because it does create and I have no idea if this is legitimate or not. But when you hear John Anick saying that there could be as many as six or seven title fights on the, on the White House card, we've seen how this works. That then becomes like a board. vortex, it's like all of the, all of the meaningful fights that start to take away from each other because they're stacked on one card expands out three months either direction and you're like,

wow, you've left a wasteland where you can't fill up cards. It's very possible that they're kind of looking at it like that's what they're going to do, but you're absolutely right. If you're not going to use him in a context that he wants to do business in, I don't know what else it would be. I don't know if he would, and again, like of his whole, the way he retired and was protecting his legacy. I don't even know who he'd be willing to fight. And then if you're the UFC, do you like, you know what I mean? Do you find like a guy who's going to make sense to that, another steep and meochish type?

I mean, it's a mystery to me, like how this plays out if he's not just fighting like Poetton or some guy that he wants to fight. I'm not sure you can twist John Jones's arm in any other way. He just doesn't seem interested. The other part, too, it's like John has talked shit about Tom Aspinall, because I've see the way his fight against Cyril Gahn went. And, you know, I'll get, okay, that's the fight game. Somebody needs to ask John, oh, okay, so then now are you willing to fight Tom Aspinall?

Right. Because I'm guessing the answer is still fucking no. That's what my, that's my feeling. I feel like he would. The way he's doing is like, well, see, he's, you know, as if the eye poke and the way that anticlimatic thing went down, like, he's kind of almost using it like, see, he told you he wasn't ready for a guy like, which is ridiculous. It doesn't even make sense.

but there's no indication that he's like soften his stance on it and he's like well all right I'll fight Aspin on when he's ready this has never been like I've got no indication that that's the case so if it's not Poetton you're like I know fight gone again you're not going to fight Gable Steveson where we know that so it this is what I this is just so it seems to me

that like they might do the Poetton fight but they're just going to save it for a part of the calendar that's going to be rough as shit absent absent that I guess I can lower stakes in the end. Now, John had a lot more to say during our little hiatus, Chuck. For example, both John Jones and Daniel Cormier have filmed a Russian version of the ultimate fighter.

I do not know what it is called. There were coaches here. You can see the face off. And Jones is upset that Cormier refused to bury the hatchet. Let's take a look at what he said. And then I cannot wait to dunk on him. Let's play. This season is going to stay here, Cormier.

Oh man, what a, what a stuffy. Just dighead. Quirmei really is. I think if you really get to know Daniel Quarmer, he's really not. Yeah, what's a man? He's an asshole. He was an asshole. I mean, he didn't really connect with any of the fighters here.

He's just an asshole. I tried to make peace with him many times, and he made it very clear that he wants to be enemies for the rest of his life because how lucrative it is. And he's just a, I don't know. There was moments where we got to laugh, you know, but for the most part, he's a dighead. You know, you look at the,

the way that he treats his staff members. He brought like 10 yes men out with him and literally, go get me my water. Where's my this? Why is that this? He just bosses guys around. And the times we weren't filming, he wasn't very sociable with the people on set.

He's just a dickhead. I think people that really work with him knows that. If I wrestled against Daniel Corrie, it'd be really interesting to see what happened. But the one thing I do know is that I made him cry in front of the world. I took him off of the list

of being considered one of the greatest fighters of all time. He'll be even, lower in the rankings of the greatest heavyweight of all time because my prospect gable steveson is going to be three times the champion dammed daniam cornea ever was and so he'll just always be in my shadow one way or another yeah he won't be here's the interesting part about it number one he did not remove him from the list of greatest fighters of all time he's absolutely still very much part of that list second of all chuck here's what drives me fucking crazy about sociopaths like this they they do this bit where what they want you to do is like, oh, let's you and I together, let's bury the hatchet,

right? But what they're really doing is I'm making you forgive me for my transgressions. I'm making you be okay with all of the horrible shit that this person has done. They're making them essentially bring them to heal so that they can have a public interaction together where that's never really at issue and you don't ever really have to have that, you know, worried about. way of getting someone coerzing them to to to whitewash all of the nasty horrible things that you've done to yourself and other people and I good for Cormier yes for telling him to buzz off it is sociopathic by the way to expect somebody to forgive and forget who's had that many like you know what I mean like to even ask him to do that is is is very and to expect it to

happen it's very play acting at human being right there that's not that's not a real thing you know it's just it's just so it's so it's like it's like um like like you know how bullies are pushy at the same time too even when they're not expressly bullying they're still being pushy you know as characters sometimes in movies it's what it is it's just a way of being like oh you know listen i may have uh there may be in a horrible 911 call where i may or may not have engaged in, you know, a number of acts that are despicable, even if, in certain cases, the illegal. But, you know, I got away with it.

I want you to be my buddy so that we don't have to worry about that anymore. And Cormier was like, go fuck yourself. Which he has a 100% should do. There's no reason for him to like, yeah. Cormier owes Jones, nothing. Yeah. Have you ever worked with D.C. in any kind of capacity? capacity, like, in a media sense, like, he's very, like, so I did, there was a draft

king's thing that we did back in the day, like a couple of times. And he was one of the, one of the guys with John Anick and I sat in with them, dude, there was nothing of the prima Madonna. I mean, if he's, if he's treating John that way, it's because it's John. This is had, this was not the way he acted. In fact, he knew I had a son. He was like, hey, you want me to to sign, you know, he signed a, like a hat for him, like, which I was like, thanks, man. you know, like, and my son loved that because I don't think he'd ever had an autograph from a fighter and all that. He was nothing but graceful the whole time.

And I'm like, I just, I find it hard to believe that that's actually who DC is. Even at this point in time, I just think that it's who John is and DC is still reacting to who John is. Yeah, I mean, again, I don't know what DC's motivations are. They might be absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying, but I know what John's motivations are because it's always what the sociopath wants. Like just think in your mind, what would something that was, someone who's like that want, they would want something like that.

Okay. And then last but not least, Daniel Cormier wants another bout with John Jones only in pure wrestling. Here's this call out. Then we'll react. I'm telling you, Real American Freestyle Wrestling is going to see me and John Jones at some point. And I'm going to kick his ass.

I would never believe. Because guess what? I still shoot because I still train wrestlers every single day. Thrill American Freestyle Wrestling. I love it. Because the job that you guys have done, to me, is amazing. You have literally created a professional wrestling for us. Yes.

The diehard wrestling fan. My fear, right? Yeah. Was that Henry was going to end up wrestling Bo Besson. No. That's scary. No way. For Ben, I'm D.C.

Ben is nice to have you back, my brother. Great to see it. My boy, Ben Ascran. What do you think, Charles? Oh, man. Well, let's put it this way, man. In the sense that when rivals kind of come together in any way that's kind of beyond the vital essential thing that played out before, this one makes more sense to me. Like when they were trying to put together Anderson Silva and Chris Wydenman in a boxing ring, I don't know. I don't know how you felt about it, but I was sort of like, ah, whatever, man.

But this, I believe, is really the type of bad blood thing. It's just going back to what we were talking about that, I don't know. I'm kind of intrigued. And the other thing is because it is kind of Daniel Cormier's world, right? Like this is his world. Like if he goes into that and I really like the RAF product, I think it would be a lot of fun and it would actually bring like a lot of people to view that and to maybe understand the wrestling aspect a little more.

But dude, I'd be intrigued. If it happened, I'd seriously doubt that John Jones would ever entertain this, but I would be intrigued. I don't know that RAF can afford it real American freestyle. That's the problem, yeah. I will say I do love. what RAF is doing. Their rule set is easy to follow. It's got some MMA

architecture where they've got rounds and belts and way-ins and face-offs. Well, I mean, there's way-ins on real wrestling, but you know, in the way in which it's commonly done in fight sports. And so I feel like it's great, but they got people still wrestling in singlets. Like, it's a fun little thing that they're doing. I like what they're doing. I'll be, I'll tell you, though, I don't have any interest in, no, none. I mean, Cormier, I listen people bet to your point people bag on cornea and listen everyone as as someone who has commentated much lower level m m ms it's maybe the hardest thing i've ever had to do professionally commentating m ms is really hard in part because it's not a replay sport and so

it's just really really really difficult to get those kinds of things right and so i'm not saying there's not criticisms you can make of his commentary but in general i think he gets it pretty right and i also just more generally as you pointed out like his asses attitude. But dude, I mean, he looks like a footlocker salesman at this point. I mean, he's, you know, God bless him. Like you, he's done fighting his wrestling careers over. I know he's still coaching and that's great. You want a big fat wrestling coach. Like, that's a thing that you want. It's a good thing. You're a dad. Like, you don't need to be those things anymore. And also like, getting back to UFC White House, people are like, who do you want Connor to fight in the

UFC White House card? I'm like, nobody. I don't give a fuck if he ever comes back. Same as I'm there as well, man. I'm there as well. Like them fighting again is not a thing that I think about in a way where it's like, won't this be great? No. No, it will not. Is there anybody though, like say if you could put any old rivalry or two guys together in the wrestling ring like that, would you be interested in anything like that? Would you be interested in anything like that where they're both in the world of MMA?

And you could put them together in a wrestling, you know, in the wrestling ring like that. So we're talking about people like, I would put a match together in 2026. Yeah, that you would be compelled to. see what would happen. That's a great question. Yeah. That's what I was I guess in that sense there's a little again I'm more of this guy. I'm more of

the guy who like if there's bad blood kind of still lingering then there's there's something to that right? Like you could put it together and you there would be something to it but there's other times man I mean you're more analytical when it comes to this where you're just like I'm I'd be fascinated to see how that plays out just because you don't know whose skill set would trump the other

in that realm. Unless we're talking like Bernard Hopkins or you know Randy Coutre 15 years ago or something. Yeah. Like if you're old, I don't give a fuck about your life anymore. Well, that's,

I mean, just go ahead and just go ahead and die. I mean, it doesn't, you know, but in all seriousness, like it doesn't mean the same thing to me. Yeah.

You know, yeah. I will say, do you know, like, I cannot believe I'm saying this because if you said this 10 years ago would have sounded kind of humorous,

I suppose. Maybe the most forgotten man in all of MMA, who would, I think, be a good fit for RAF is actually Phil Davis. Phil Davis left UFC for Bellator and it briefly worked out, but then Ryan Bader came and that kind of messed things up. But he still had a nice career there in terms of like, you know, wins and losses, Chuck, Division I, one national champion out of Penn State. But nobody talks about him anymore. Nobody talks about. Last I talked to him, he was talking about a book club that he was in in San Diego. Like he was, you mentioned in my books, this is a guy who actually would get together with other dudes and talk about books.

Isn't that crazy? I've never heard that from an MMA guy. I'm going to have a book club on my substack. You can join it. How about that? That'd be wonderful. At any event, I don't care if John ever comes back. So please don't.

That'd be great if you didn't. All right. And those are our top five topics. It is now time where you get to ask us questions. every Monday. We put out a call on the old socials. Put the social graphic up. I don't think we put that up at the beginning of the show, Long Island.

We'll get you one here. Oh, we all right already for Chuck. Excellent. Great. You can see Chuck socials. You can see my socials. And then, of course, at the very beginning here, you can see the MK socials. We put out a call on IG four questions.

You guys fill it up. And then the producers pick the very best ones. It's time for a donkey to ejaculate. It is time for DMs from dogs. By the way, we're getting back to the last one here. Long Island Luke is asking, would you watch Islam Armin in R.A.F? The answer is yes, of course. Like, why would you not watch that?

You know, I just don't know. I wasn't posing it as would you. You said, what's a good matchup? Yeah, that would be. That would be a good matchup. Oh, I see. That is a good one. For sure.

All right. Question number one. This is from Fernandez. As I say it like a dog, TM 93. Speaking of which thoughts on RAS. as a fan of wrestling, I want to see Valencia. I think it's Zahid Valencia versus Bo Nickel. How much of it have you actually watched beginning to end?

I have not watched any of them the full way, but I did talk to them, you know, to the guys running it and did a piece on when they were launching and I paid attention. You know, I paid attention and I tried to catch up on things that matter, like that have happened. But, dude, I got to say, I dig it. They're going to towns that will. appreciate wrestling.

They have strong wrestling communities. They went to Penns, it would have been great if, when they did that, the Bo Nickel would have competed on that particular card. But I'm like, but I do dig that they kind of tie it into the communities and they've got the right of ambassadors.

And I do feel like there's like this been held back, this bowstring that's been let go from this wrestling community. It's like, thank God, we finally got some kind of, you know, outside of collegiate and Olympic, you know, professional realm to focus on, which is fun. because a lot of these guys, you know what I mean? I feel a lot of these guys, this is kind of, this is what they want to do.

This is what they were born doing. This is what they've been doing the whole time. This is what they want to be doing. Wrestling to me is, I mean, the comparisons are not equivalent, but they face similar struggles where it's like with kickboxing. It's like, why can't kickboxing be more popular in the United States? And the reasons why it's not, are not the reasons why wrestling is not more popular. It's actually quite different.

But it kind of still faces the same can't penetrate. into more mainstream consciousness kind of challenge. I will say, Chuck, I did a little bit, again, on my substack, I did a little bit of story about this. The growth, the fastest growing sport, I don't know about in the world, but in the United States, do you know what it is? The fastest growing sport.

No. Women's wrestling. Really? Yes, on the scholastic level. So high school, that kind of a thing. That is by far the, I mean, their numbers are, exploding. Wow.

I don't know how palatable that would be to grow RAF's audience because it seems like most of their cards are for the most part pretty male-centric. But nevertheless, something to pay attention to. Why doesn't, you know, I've probably talked about this in best, but briefly, like, why doesn't kick pocket? You worked with Glory back in the day, right? Like I remember you were doing some stuff, but like, why doesn't, why hasn't that caught on? because I think ultimately

it does not feel like something Americans understand as their own and they have no frame I mean even if you like oh I can go and train moitai at my local gym but it's still Thai boxing right you know it's still some it's still like cultural import and by the way I don't say this is a thing to reject I say it's a thing to embrace but I'm saying between that

And between, like, there's no scholastic programs for it so people aren't coming up in it. Whereas they do, there is scholastic wrestling, for example. Obviously, you know, you just don't have a lot of American names. You don't have a lot of American gyms. You don't have a lot of American shows. It's like it's just not a feature of the American imagination. I think it's because it doesn't have any real, like, hardcore roots here, you know? Yeah.

And I guess that like when people are like, well, knockouts are what they translate for everybody. it's that's the one example where I'm always like well maybe not sort of yeah sort of you know I remember when Israel Asanaia and Broomfield weren't you at that card like when uh Adasanya won he knocks somebody out in Colorado then oh yeah he um yes I know you're talking about yeah yeah it was uh but I remember at that point

just noticing that like there's a couple good fights on that was that that was the one card I was that and just being like why doesn't this translate but I think you're right I just feel like there's a detachment there somehow for American audience uh from Mike Lyndon WX, excited for the new chapter of MK and the pay-per-view list Paramount era. Which current UFC champion or champions do you predict will end the year as champion? Interim, by the way, doesn't count.

I mean, it kind of counts, depending on how the divisions go. But Chuck, who do you think is going to have some staying power? So this is a person who will still be champion at the end of the year who's a champion right now. Probably, hams up because you probably only fight once. You know, it's tough to say, I think Islam. That's what I was going to say. Islam, it's tough to say Islam because that's a monster division. But I'm not saying he can't beat those guys because it feels like if you were to pair up him with any of those guys, I think I'd still favor him.

But dude, that's the one with all the monsters mashing their fists ready to fight him. And that's, it's going to be tougher if he fights a couple of times this year. Long Island, Luke, who do you think is going to last? We did this kind of with the prediction episode. Got to say Kayla Harrison, assuming she gets past Amanda Nunes. Tom Aspinall, just because we don't know how long he's going to be out

and maybe only fights Cyril gone once, you know, like maybe they do that rematch late in the year or something. McKenzie Dern, no. Yeah, Dern, no. Val, I'm skeptical on. Volk, I'm skeptical on. Yon, I'm skeptical.

Van. Yeah. There's just a lot of competitive. Yeah. It's usually the women. divisions and then the heavier divisions where there's just like you know where it's just again the divisions are buns all right point number three Lawrence of hampton what's a new trend you could see popping up in mma in 2026 what's something people need to start combating you know it's uh it's not

new chuck it's not new but i've been actually uh i don't know if you saw over the uh holidays Craig Jones put out the updated octopus guard instructional and I know that might sound, oh, this is so esoteric. I don't think so. I actually think reaching over the back behind the opponents, elbows and shoulder, and then using that to either create a scramble, reverse position, go bottom top, or to get the back, I actually think is going to be a key component of how scrambling evolves in M. It would be kind of cool to see some evolution that way.

You don't usually see, I mean, it's been kind of, It's difficult for the, for the sport to evolve. You know what I mean? Like guys could get very good at certain things and they just keep doing it. So if that's the case, is there an example of somebody already doing this? Bro, BJ Penn did it 20 years ago. I mean, that motherfucker was well ahead of his time. But JDM has done Octopus Guard in previous bouts.

He tried it against Islam. Islam was too good. But you're already starting to see other people beginning to use it. It's actually growing. Here's how you know what's going to grow more popular in MMA is because you're starting to see it a shit ton in Nogee grappling. Yeah. And not everything that is relevant to nogie grappling goes up a level,

but something where you can create bottom to top scrambles is absolutely going to bleed through, and I think it will. Interesting. All right. Eric Bolden asks for question four, what UFC fight that has been announced are you most excited for? Jesus. Oh, man.

do you have one at the top of your head? Honestly, I'll tell you. Patty Gaichi, the problem with it is, it's the other parts about it that are not part of this question. You know, does it deserve to be the fight that should have even been made? I don't know. It's a debate we can have. Should there be an interim title? Once again, that's a different debate. But just as a fight, it's a good-ass fight.

Like, it's a great fight, right? Yeah, yeah, 100%. Is it Hooker and Binwa-Saint-Denia? they've been booked, right? Yes. To me that there's a lot of intrigue to a fight like that. You know what I mean? So I think, I mean, I would have to,

they announced so many fights, I feel like I'm not giving it justice because I don't have them all in front of me, but I know when they announced that one, I was very intrigued by that. Fair. Anything else to say now? I like the Arnold Allen John Silva fight coming.

Oh, that is a good one. Yes, that is a good fight. Yes, totally. I mean, there's some good fights on the, on 226. We used to go crazy. ape shit whenever they would announce fights like people on Twitter and stuff. I feel like these days they could name a dozen fights

over the course of a couple of days and you barely hear about it. The only time that I've noticed now that people go apeshit Chuck is when they do like Dana's going to go live on IG and then they announce like the main events of like three cards all right like people go apshit for that one for sure. Yes that's true. All right.

Last but not least from John underscored Winkle Fred, worst name I've ever seen in my life. If LT had to spend 14 days on a remote island was one of the following. Who would he pick? Burt Chrysler. Do you know who Burt Chrysler is?

Yes. No, no, no. No, not. Burt. Burt. Is that what it says? Yeah. Burt Chrysler is what we call Burt Kreischer. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what I thought. I can't see the same thing. The fat off who's never been funny a day in his life, but somehow I've seen you get him. Okay, yes, yes. It's like, dude, he's a fat drunk and he's rich. I'm like, he's not funny. Like, he's not funny. Takes a shirt off a good deal.

That doesn't entice you. It's literally. his only bit and I, you know, is he going to die of the gout at some point? Probably, right? Joanna Champion, that's a no, or cake

lady. Do you know the cake lady? I don't think so. See, we got to get you steeped up on some MK lore. Yeah. So BC during, have you seen this shit what this fucking absolute dirt bag would do? He found, I think what is she French or French Canadian?

Some kind of woman who's a cake cake baker she makes pastries but her bit is she makes cake where it looks like real life objects and then her videos is she'd make it and then she'd pick up like this thing like you know

which is like for like you know for plug in your microphone to for your pocket and then she'd just start eating it you know what I mean you'd be like god damn this lady's like eating the wall she's like a billy goat eating cans and it kind of grossed me out and freaked me out So the question is, who would I rather be? The answer is cake lady.

Okay. I'd rather her haunt my dreams than spend five nanoseconds next to the swollen red, unfunny oath that is burnt cry. I'd never seen a more talentless man make money in my fucking life. I would pay to see you on an island with him. That'd be prime TV for me. It would just be Lord of the Flies murder. It's just spear him right away.

It's like Bert. stop crying in falsetto every time you open your fucking mouth. Can you do that? What was the last time you went to a stand-up comedy show? Do you remember? It's been a little while, man. Yeah, it's been a few years. I go to some, you know, occasionally here in D.C.

Comedy's not in a, it's not in a great place. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's not 20 years ago, I went to go see Nick DePaolo and Patrice O'Neill. Yeah. And Nick has turned into a virulent race. and Patrice O'Neill is dead. And so I think that's...

Yeah, it's definitely changed. All right. That is it for the DMs. Now let's bring in Long Island, Luke here, because we got to discuss this, Long Island. We had a lot to figure out about what we're going to do with parts of the show that are like, unmistakably BC, right? Like, do we keep them? Do we not?

And what we decided was, for, have you seen this shit? It's not retired. That would not be. be correct to say, but we're not going to do it as a regular part of Mondays. There might be bringing it back on occasion. Certainly when BC comes back, we'll have him do it. Like, we'll do it again. But we're not going to do it today. Instead, we're going to try out different segments, as you mentioned, each and every time we're here. Why don't you tell the folks what we have in store today? So today, we're playing a little game called high school headbangers. So Luke, you've actually

played this with BC before where you were the host. And it's basically guessed the 90 song lyric. The only difference here is we're going to have punishments if you guys do not get it correct. So I'll play you a video after if you do not get it correct. So we have to guess the lyrics that come next?

No, you have to guess the name of the song. Oh, okay. I'm not going to have to get at this. If I really know you know the band and you just can't come up with the name, I might give you partial credit. But either way, we'll do it like that. But guys, let's just play. Let's play. Let's play. Let's play the damn intro.

I'm proud. LT. you're up first. All right. It's okay. Had a bad day. Hands are bruised from breaking rocks all day. Because you had a bad day.

You take you one. It's okay. Had a bad day. Hands are bruised for breaking rocks all day. Can you tell me what year? 1994. I know the song, but I'm gonna guess

and I don't fucking know Allison Chains, I don't know. It is Allison Chains. Can you guess the name of the song, though? If that's too hard, maybe I'll just give me. Hold on, hold, hold, hold on. We're still working out of the kinks here. Yeah.

Angry chair? That is incorrect. It was no excuses. Ah, no excuses that I know. I think it's only right that we let you watch your punishment video because Chuck needs to learn who cake lady is. Yeah.

You look at this. The car. She can't eat anything normal. Like, just, I hear, I'm going to eat my steering. She always stare at the, yes. That's the other part, bro. She makes eye contact like a prostitute in the red light district of Amsterdam. No.

Pass. All right. Going forward, I'll give you credit for the band name Snyder. All right. But I just needed to watch it. All right. All right, Chuck, this one's for you. Well, I guess I should stick up for myself, but I really think it's better this way.

The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care. Oh, I know this one. Offspring. Yes. Correct. Right. Yeah. You know the name of the song.

I don't. I probably could figure it out as a chorus. I'd have to figure this whole thing out. But no, not off the top of my head. Could I guess? Could I try? Yeah. Go ahead.

Yeah, no self-esteem. Ah, there you go. That's it. 1999. No self-esteem. See, this would have been, I think, this is particularly cruel that you're rolling this one out when BC. All he did is you guys. B.C. is watching right now because he's got nothing else to do with his life. I know that.

And right now he's going, what the fuck? Where was this? I'm just saying I wasn't getting compensated to produce. I'm getting compensated to produce now. You know, with that comes working now. Comes inspiration that I like. Anyways, uh, LT, your second one. Here you go. Don't scream about. Don't think aloud. Turn your head. Now baby just spit me out. They're so familiar. Faruque assault, I'm not sure. Incorrect. It was collective soul.

I know you've seen them in concert before. Put it back up. Put it back up. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Here it is. Don't scream about. Don't think a loud. Turn your head now, baby.

I haven't heard that song. It's so long. It's so easy. Well, now you got to watch this, Luke. It's Jay. Here we go. Jason Aaron working out. How is this motherfucker?

in every episode of the show. Oh, man. Look, look, look at him. Look at him. I like, I like how this is a highlight reel and he's doing banded, assisted pull-ups. Jay, if you have to use rubber bands to help you on the, on the pull-up, stop filming. How about that? Yeah, why don't you drag a chair, fuckface? I'm getting Jay in the show, but I, you know, I know how Ronald Luff gets you, so I have to.

He's not punishment. Guilty pleasures. This is good. Yeah. Chuck, your second one. All right. despite all my rage, I'm still just a rat in a cage. I think that was smashing pumpkins.

That is correct. Can you name the name of the song? Wasn't it rat in a cage? No, it was Bullet with Butterfly. Oh, that's right. I'm horrible with the titles, man. Either way, you did get the band. Okay, I'll give it to you. LT, number three, waiting for a sign to smash the silence with a brick of self-control.

Hmm. Oh, my God. I can hear this in my head. what year I believe top of my head let me let me let me let you 94 if you don't get this right wait wait wait wait wait wait wait

Green day Green day Yeah there you It is green day Oh no hold on like To smash the silence With the brick of self-control Yeah there you go

So that's the one where he's talking to the shrink About the woman No That's it I don't know the name of the song She She Which you claimed was your favorite Green Day song on MK once, so I would have been...

It is, it is. But I mean, I'm not a big Green Day guy, so that's why. Chuck, here's a third. All right, let's go. This land is mine. This land is free. I'll do what I want, but irresponsibly. That's B.C.'s motto.

This land is your land. Is that true? No. Oh, man. This land is mine. It's free. Bring a bell. Like, usually you catch, like, a little.

What year? This is 1998. Oh, all right, so this is a little later. I'll say it's Slipknot. That is incorrect. It might have been too deep of a cut. It was Pearl Jam. It was their single 1998 album.

Do the Evolution. Okay, all right. I never gotten that. Chuck, this one has audio, but here is your first punishment clip. Oh, that is right. That is awesome. I saw you tweet something about Russell Wilson the other day, and I was like, all right, that's perfect.

They've succeeded even paying him like, what is it, $90 million of dead money or whatever. They still succeeded in the last couple of years. So in the end, it's like good riddance and whatever. That did not work. That did not work. Dude, that was a rough couple of years. That's right. Oh, my God, dude.

That hurts. LT number four for you. Crack a smile and cut your mouth and drown in alcohol. Year? Pulling it up. The year was 19. 1996. Damn it.

The cut your mouth part, I can hear it in the back of my head. What you're hearing is Brian Campbell screaming, though. I know. Ryan Campbell is like, what the fuck? I don't know. I don't know. Any guess? You want to just?

I can hear it in my head. Once you tell me what it is, I bet you I can sing it exactly as it's gone, but I can't. Soundgarden, burden in my hand. Oh, yeah. Correct. Put it up again? crack a smile and cut your mouth and drown in alcohol there you go that's a great song great song uh luke your punishment is an update on a ufc power couple i don't know if he saw a poet's on krecy cortez

did break up poet on then ran in the rain you know yelling chama and all this stuff but uh chuck when i saw all this news break and he's running in the rain apparently from a breakup with this whole thing's all staged obviously yeah i know when i was on i was i was i was i was I was on, you know, winter vacation. And the first thing I thought was, oh, man, B.C. is going to have a field day with this year. Oh, man. And everybody did. Like, all the headlines I saw all that day was like, look at her new romance and M.M.A.

It's like, I want to be clear. I want to be clear. I don't care about their lives. I know. I don't care about them at all. Then you got to get some of these questions right, Luke. Uh, Chuck. Number four for you.

Could have been easier on you. I couldn't change though I wanted to. Oh, my God. I can hear this one in my head. God damn, who's this? Because the band is a young. Is it, what year was it? It was 1995.

God, I can hear the song. I can't think of, right? All these songs you heard 10,000 times, you know? I don't know. Nickelback. I don't know. No. Is this like, is this like a live or something?

Live or like sponge or something? It is bush. Glissol. that's what it was. I could have been easy. I could hear his voice. I could hear it. Chuck, your next punishment is,

you got to watch your boy, Yokic hyper-extend. No, no. Dude, you have no idea how traumatic this is. You still don't know his prime table. I mean, let's be honest. No one is happier about that than Yokic himself. Can we be honest about that? He gets to coach.

He gets to put on his suit now. But, dude, it's the scariest thought. If you're a dimmer Nuggets fan, that's the scariest possibility is him going down. He is probably the best player right now. Yeah. L.T.

Last but not least. The sky was gold. It was rose. I was taking sips up into my nose. Third eye blind. Correct. You know the song. The sky was gold.

It was rose. I was taking sips up into my nose. And it's the du-do-do-do-do-do. Semi-charmed life. Nice. Semmy-charmed life. Big time fan over there.

All right. Chuck. Last but not least for you, when everything feels like the movies, yeah, you bleed just to know you're alive. Yeah, you bleed just to know you're alive. Oh my God, I know this. And I don't want the way.

Yes. I just want you to know. Who is it the Goo Goo Goo Dolls? Yeah. It is the Goo Goo Dolls and it was Iris. All right. My first, my first girlfriend at high school, love that song.

I mean, I don't have heard of them. But I would have loved to have seen the punishment video that was coming out. You're hurting me pretty good there. Do you want me to give you another one? Check out this man in the hat at the Rockies game. Oh. Dude, that's hilarious. They're just showing dudes and hats getting decked.

I don't know if you know this UFC power couple, but Dakota Dichiba, Dalton Rasta. Look at them. Celebrating business. They went on a run together. Yeah, listen, I hope they have a great life. I just don't care. Yeah, I mean, it's all right.

Look at them. Look at the happy couple. I'm not hating. I'm not wishing ill. I just don't care. I'm really curious what everyone thought of this segment. So please let us know in the comments. If you liked it or not, either way, we'll probably have a new one by next show. But yeah, we're going to try tons of stuff. Tons of stuff is coming your way. That's it. Chuck, that's it. Any final thoughts here before we. I mean, we did it. That's kind of that's my final thought. I knew it was going to be fun, easy. it's good chemistry and I appreciate you guys making me so welcome here yeah listen you are welcome

here you're now the guy and uh we're going to have a great time we're going to have a good year listen no pay-per-views earlier starts on the pay-per-view or the the numbered card main times i am excited about the year ahead and honestly um as i said before the lack of amtrak travel or that total lack of it but the reduction in it is i think going to save my soul track may go out of business, man. You were, you were like their primary customer for all these years. This is, you know what? Let them burn. That's my attitude. Let them burn. You can follow the show on social in a lot of different places, as we mentioned. There are Chuck's social. Chuck, where do you want people? I get this question all the time. Look, do I follow you on YouTube, on Twitter? How do you describe where you would prefer people to give you a follow? You know, I should be more active on these social handles. But I mean, I shouldn't. I can't stand. being on X anymore, but that's generally where I post my stuff is going to be there. I'm trying to be better about it, but at Chuck Mendenhall on Twitter X is probably the best place. And I'm over at Uncrowned at Yahoo, and that's where all of my work is usually.

There you have it. There's some stuff there below. You can follow on the socials. You can follow my YouTube channel as well as Morning Kombat. You can email the show Morningcombat at gmail.com. Long Island and I, oh, of course, merch, what kind of Can I say morning combat dot shop? Morningcombat. Dot shop. This is going to be the January exclusive. As you see, we have the posters,

as well as now the limited edition tease all, let's just say, stranger things influence, because we don't want them to have us take any of this stuff down, available until the end of this month, January 31st and 1159 p.m. East Coast time. And that is it. That is the first show of the new era.

Chuck, thank you so much for being a part of this experiment. We're so excited to have you. here. For everyone involved on the show, thanks for helping to make today possible. To all the MK fans, cannot thank you enough for being here, for being patient. And like I said, man, I don't know what to promise you other than Max's effort, but I honestly think we're going to have some great times this year. And I'm glad that those of you who are here are here.

And for those who stick around, thank you so much. We really appreciate you. For Charles, Iceman, Mindenhall, I'm Luke Thomas. We'll see you guys on Friday. And until then, may all of your gains be loyal. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.