MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Oleksandr Usyk vs Rico Verhoeven Stoppage Controversy | PFL Brussels | Johnny Manziel MMA Debut

Episode Date: May 26, 2026

Luke Thomas and Chuck Mindenhall are in the house on a special Tuesday edition of Morning Kombat. The biggest news story of the weekend came unexpectedly when kickboxing heavyweight great Rico Veroheven gave boxing champion Oleksandr Usyk a serious run for his money in their DAZN PPV main event. However, the bout was marred by what many observers are calling a premature and highly questionable stoppage. LT and Chuck share their thoughts on the Veroheven-Usyk bout. At PFL Brussels, hometown hero Partick Habirora made extremely short work of former UFC lightweight champion Benson Henderson. The guys break down the fight and the rest of the PFL card. Plus Johnny Manziel made his MMA debut...See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Revely, revelry. Look at this now. It's what 11 a. I'm back. Oh, there I do. You fit in seamlessly in this weird MK environment.

Do you want a Margarita? We're going to do it to me, choose, choose, this is. Hey, Air Marks get set and go on. Hey, where are my glasses? I can't see shit. Ah, look at that. Super prepared. Hello, everyone, on this 26th day.

Wow, this year is flying by. Oh, I thought I said, wow, but you could see me now. Oh, shit. What did I like? I'm like, Brian Campbell, you have aged. 26th of May, 26th. It's time for another episode of Morning Combat. Thank you guys so much for joining me. I greatly appreciate it.

My name is Luke Thomas. I join you from the capital of Estados vanitos right here in Washington, D.C., joined by my Connecticut brethren with the Tilty camera. Yeah, I got a fix it. Is that a Tommy Hearns hat that I see there? We could look at it that way, but the pink doesn't tell you something that there might be Brett Hitman Hart.

Oh, is that? Sorry. I don't know about wrestling. Sorry, I don't. I read books. I apologize. Hey, it's a roots of fight thing. I sent it to me in as like hot pink.

It makes the black come out. You know, honestly, it does look pink, but it's, I couldn't, I wasn't sure if it was like a light orange from here. Oh, yeah. I see what you're saying now.

Yeah. Anyway, check out. How are you? Yeah. I'm good, man. Just a long weekend, had plenty of time to think about what we saw on Saturday, right? Like digest everything, read all the angles. And yeah, man, just kind of enjoyed myself this weekend.

I was watching that fight because I was supposed to be with my family. And we took our, my brother and I took our kids to like an indoor playground. But then there was a bunch of adults watching them. So I just posted it up in the corner and I was just like looking at it, you know, when it was going on. And I was like, dude, uh, what's that? happening here, you know? You didn't have commentary, like on at the time? Like, uh, not really, no. Okay. Because that's a little bit different, right? Because you probably didn't know exactly how, what was happening there at the end of that. No, I mean, even then. Well, at the end, I couldn't quite tell,

but I missed, uh, no, no, sorry. So I missed parts of the fight, but then I caught up by the middle of the 11th round. Okay. But, uh, I, you know, there, there was no clock that was on the thing. Right, right. But I kind of immediately intuitive. that something was wrong because I didn't think the stoppage made any sense. And then when I went to Twitter, people were like, oh, the bell, he went after the bell. He was like, oh, well, that's even worse, you know. Yeah, yeah. Well, I know we're getting into this, but yeah, that was unique.

Every weekend, it feels like we're dealing with some new terrain that we haven't seen before, but that was definitely weird. Yeah, it certainly was. Let's bring in the third member here of the show. He is questionably sober, but unquestionably happy about his New York Knicks. Oh, boy. Sweet. their way to the finals. How are you, Long Island?

Not only sweeping 11th Street. Not only that, but what was it? Game clinching games winning by 20 plus points and all of them. I mean, Chuck, I see you like, 30 plus points, right? I mean, it's just ridiculous the way they're dismantling these teams in the end. I was thinking back to like 2007 when like the Knicks, maybe it was like, oh, wait, Knicks were supposed to get LeBron, something like that. And then they get fucking like Zach Randolph and like, you know, and like, I'm like, dude, it's just like, you see. come such a long way. It's nice to be here. Do you all realize

that Luca Donchich, Jalen Brunson played on the Mavericks together? How did they fuck that up? Jalen was still coming into his own first few years in the league. Dude, the Knicks gave Jalen Brunson a $100 million contract that year and everyone was like, myself included. I was like

way too much money. I know. Who the fuck is this guy? Now he's like and then he takes a pay cut to get the extension. I mean, it's just everything. I was giving away SGA as well. It's almost like these finals are going to, it's just, it's kind of nuts, isn't it? Like these teams giving up on guys like that? Way too early.

Well, let's set the table here if we can. As you indicated, Chuck, we're going to talk about that Ussick-Verhoeven fight, which was absolutely insane in a number of different directions. What it actually says about kickboxing, we'll have a conversation about that as well. Plus, there was the PFL this past weekend, and then a series of news and notes. So thumbs up on this video. Hit subscribe if you have, and you can follow us on the various social media platforms, whichever one your heart desires.

We also have an email, MorningCombat at gmail.com. We'll get to Dead Wrongs and fan subs. I don't know if we're doing Dead Wrongs today. We're doing fan subs today. So that's going to be a great place to get them. It's going to be at Morningcombat at gmail.com. Then we have our merch, morningcombat. Dot shop.

We still have these for a few more days. If you were kind of teetering on the edge of getting them, now is the time. Renegades of Donk is the first one that's available to you. Then we have the DC 101 kind of inspired design. and then last but not least, Wippets in the parking lot, what else could be better than that? Might have to re-up the D.C. one.

I mean, going to the UFC, going to be there next month. So, I mean, that makes sense to keep running that one, right? Yeah, but people from, not from D.C. Don't care about D.C. That's the difference. All right, all right. You got to be from here to care about it.

That's the interesting part. All right. With that in mind, Chuck, we got a lot to get to. So let's talk about it. Topic number one, man, I don't even know where to start this conversation. The biggest new story, we did not think it was going to be anything like this. I'll put my hands in the air and say, didn't see it coming, not by a million miles.

But, okay, the biggest new story of the weekend came very unexpectedly when kickboxing heavyweight great, which is really what he is. Rico Verhoeven, he gave Oleksandra Usik just about everything that he could handle. In my opinion, he was winning that fight heading into the 11th, where he is ultimately stopped at the end here. You can see the stoppage. He gets dropped with an uppercut, and he's hurt. He's eventually going to, he spits,

his mouthpiece out and I think he spit it out on the way down, but eventually he gets up, they restart the action and Usik is all over him. The round expires kind of in the middle here, but he's still punching and the referee stops it. Okay. The bout was marred, Chuck, by what many observers are calling a premature and highly questionable stoppage. So like, let's just kind of ask, there's bigger questions to ask about the two fighters and what it all means, but like kind of starting with where the controversy itself begins. Where does this stoppage in the Usik-Verhoeven fight rank for you all times in terms of bad stoppages? Or maybe you don't think it's necessarily that bad.

Where do you come down on it? Well, I wonder about your thoughts on this, too, because in my mind, and you have to, you have to let, this is why I said maybe it's good that we got this extra day to kind of process this because you don't want to have like a recency bias. You see something like this. But I think it's got to be, at least to my mind, it's got to be one of the worst stoppages I've ever seen. in the sense that when you look at the stakes of it, right? Like you're fighting for lineal heavyweight championship, WBC, you've got that on the line. You've got Yusik, we've had debates on this very show about should he remain the number one pound for pound goat in boxing?

Like he's that high up there, you know, and we're trying to see if these guys like, you know, Shakur or Bam or Benavides or any of these guys coming up can overtake him. We've had these discussions. And you're like, nah, because we've just never seen him. compromise yet even in an older age he's still rolling at a at a very you know high clip he's still winning the fights convincingly so then you put that into it you know you got this historic event where it's a pay-per-view 60 bucks it's at the pyramids so there's this magnitude of that being weighed in and also when you when you look at it in the context of like a heavyweight fight i don't

remember what the mike tyson buster douglas you know odds were at the time but it weren't this crazy. Like this was, wasn't it, this was something like, Verhoeven was something along the lines of 20 to one underdog, right? Like he was way, Long Island might have those numbers, but like he was a huge underdog. And take that away. What was he? He was like plus 1,200, but not only that, Chuck, halfway through the fight when he was probably clearly winning, he was still plus a thousand, which is just crazy. Okay. And I mean, they just showed that it was a 42 to 1 for Buster 2. So it wasn't that but but this but given the context of what we're talking about you're you have a guy

and what is what is boxing other than this what the whole thing about the rocky drama was that he's taken a guy has no business taking into the to the deep water you know what I mean and this is the human drama of this thing that's what we had we had a human drama unfolding at the biggest stage possible a heavyweight championship on the line and you took a guy

who had that chance and you took it away from him and that sucks I I couldn't think of a Can you think of one that rivals this in terms of the stakes in magnitude? I had a hard time coming up with that. In terms of that, I mean, I think this is where the rubber meets the road. I've seen worse stoppages in the sense of a guy not being hurt and then the referee intervening and stopping it. But to your point, Chuck, when you factor in the other components here, namely how much of an underdog the guy was, how ridiculously overperforming they were.

And also, you know, you're in the championship rounds at that point. This is for a championship series of belts, to be honest with you. Yeah. Stopping it in that case just seems so beyond the pale of anything else I can recall off the top of my head. So it's not like the intervention itself is like, wow, I've never seen an intervention this premature. I've seen them worse than that. Sure.

But given the backdrop, I'm not sure. what the marriage is between the two that would be it just felt like the boxing gods were like, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to stop this incumbent, this, this, this is upstart from, you know, challenging the incumbent in the way that he is. It felt like that to me. Yeah. And I mean, what was it was it? Was it the, remember the Meljcich Taylor fight, uh, with Julio Cesar Chavez back in the day. And this is, I remember like for the longest I even talked to, uh, Richard Steele about the referee who stopped it with two seconds left. was going to go the one way.

You know, and I I feel like we don't get this a lot in MMA, but you will see this occasionally with A side, B side boxing, where it's just like you feel like the B side, especially a deep B side like this, a deep cut who probably has no business in there,

just doesn't get the benefit of the doubt anywhere in this fight. You know what I mean? I think that the, I don't think it was just an MMA it felt like a very big boxing audience was watching it, and most people I saw, really thought that RICO was winning that fight. I thought Chris Algeri made a great point about he's fighting,

he's kind of fighting him big when he's inside, and he was fighting like a small fighter when he was on the outside. I felt like that's what he was doing, you know, just kind of charging forward, bounding in, getting his shots, countering the shots. I just, I thought that RICO was fighting. It wasn't like this brilliant masterpiece, but it was confounding Ussick, who we hold in very high regard.

And yet when they said that they would go to open scoring, I think in the ninth round, and they said it was 76, 76. I was like, it almost made everything we saw after that academic, right? Because you're like, well, I don't know if he can win on the scorecards. If this thing goes down to a scorecard, I bet you were going to be talking about a controversy here. And so it felt like, it felt like in the end that Rico was up against more than just the best pound for pound heavyweight going. It felt like he was going against the system itself and like just the, you know, the boxing institution itself, didn't it? I mean, to me, like the major takeaway that I had from this, I totally.

totally agree. I mean, but the, but the reason why I felt like this is because I'm glad you kind of underscored it. It was something I was on my mind as well. It's like, dude, if you're the B side in a boxing match, you have to overcome quite a bit. Now, this was, what do you want to call it neutral territory? Neither guy is from Egypt. So in that sense, it was, you didn't have to overcome that. But as a B side, you often do. You often have to fight in the other guys backyard. That's the first thing you have to consider. The second one, though, here is Chuck, like the odds to me almost make the judge. and the referee kind of infantilize the B side. Like so for example, like if you were to try and argue, like, what would be the reason why the referee might be willing to step in? And the answer is he gets dropped. He gets back to his feet. And then he just covers up. He doesn't really swing back.

Right? That would be the argument. But the, but the counter to that would be, well, number one, you're at the end of the round. The round can't save you, but he wasn't going back down. The bell can't save you. But he wasn't going back down. He was still taking it.

And then more to the point, this is a guy who's arguably one of the best heavyweights ever to do it in kickboxing. This is an experienced fighter. I understand this is a second pro boxing bout and that should count for something. But this idea that like,

oh, he's never been in bad spots and tired like this, it just, you're, the weight of the B-sides expectations make the referee jumpier. Like, for example, a referee who's, you know, a good referee, who's refereeing an amateur bout versus low-level pro versus high-level pro versus championship high-level pro, they're going to intervene on a hurt opponent much quicker the further down that food chain you get, Chuck. If you got an amateur out there and the guy, two guys zero and zero, they're making their pro debut,

you don't let it go very long, right? If guy gets really hurt, you intervene a little bit more quickly than you ordinarily would. And that's done by design. It felt to me like they were doing that to Rico. Like, because the other argument, Chuck, is that it's just corruption. And so the argument is that it's not corruption. If we want to say that there's actually like a good reason for this, well, then it has to be that you were infantilizing one of the kickboxing grades of this era.

And that to me seems just untenable. Totally. I guess that's what bothers you in the end is because you do hear. Like, but of course, we get the advantage of kind of watching it afterwards and listening closely for the bell. And then him waving it off. So this is the first stoppage at the third. 301 mark of the 11th round that we've probably ever had, right? Like, where it's like they said

259, but clearly he starts to wave his hands right after it. But besides that, I guess what bothers me is exactly what you're saying was just that you got the sense that Rico needs saved there. And I understand, like most people

you know, that I've seen kind of defending, you know, what was happening like, well, he's going to lose in the next round anyway. But I'm saying if you live in a world where you definitively just rule out whatever's going to happen and say, well, this was gonna, you would never fight in the begin with, right? You're just like, this guy would just kill this guy. It would all be theoretical. We don't know that, you know, and I felt like he deserved after fighting that fight, the chance to survive that round. Like, we've seen people saved by the bell in boxing for a century, you know, where there's just

the bell saves them. Sometimes they go down in the next round. Sometimes they don't. But he deserved that. And I felt like he got short shrift maybe because of what you're saying. It may be that they were looking at as an amateur when this guy has fought so long in the sport Not in boxing, but so long in combat sports That he just didn't need that When these kickboxers come in and there are MMA fighters and they're gigantic underdogs

It's a cool story if they overcome it Which they typically do not But to me it adds to the problems that they already have Seeing things like that And you can say the referees of the judges don't know that But I don't really believe that I mean, maybe they don't know the specific odds, but they know, they have a sense of what the, what the lopsidedness of the odds are attempting to convey. And yeah, when you, when you are Rico Verhoeven or if you're any of these fighters, you just have to realize at this point, Chuck, this is just the reality.

You're going to have to stop that guy. Right. They're just not going to let you walk in there and beat one of their champions. They're not going to give you credit round over round. They might intervene early if you get hurt. You know what I mean? Like there's just going to be this. this inertia within boxing itself to not even again even if it's not corruption it's just purely

there's just these biases or incompetence or some fluid combination of the two they can't let themselves even begin to see a world where that would be the case you look at the score and put up the scorecards if we have now if we have those here so I had it six to three after nine I think of my recap video I said I gave Rico the 10th which is crazy I should not have done that although I suppose you could if you really wanted to. I thought he got hurt badly at the end of that one, but whatever, it didn't really matter.

He certainly lost the 11th and was going to lose it by double digits. You know what I mean? So that was going to go probably pretty poorly for him. Do you recall how you had it scored? Yeah, I had it at 7.3. And I know that, like, I don't know if you were paying attention, like they had the Chris Mannix kind of popping up the score. He had it something like one round only for you sick for the longest time.

And I mean, obviously like I just want to chime in. It was actually Luke's boy, Mike Coffinger, who had the Oh, I'm sorry, you're right. God, I say that I always mix those two guys up. It was Coppinger, yes. So maybe this discounts everything for you, Luke. But he had like one Yusick round.

And, you know, I think that most people could have been like, well, it's probably not that one side, but it feels like it is because I thought RICO was doing, like he was just doing more. Every round it felt like he was doing more. I think I gave him the third and the first. fourth for Usick and of course the 10th

going into the 11th round. So like that's that's kind of where I was at on it. But I knew full well when they came on and they mentioned the open scoring thing that I heard people using the word fuckery man because it's like we've seen it too often in boxing right and you just you just feel like

that type of thing is just it's like it's always going to be part of the event and it felt like it was heading there. So it would have been interesting in a slide north sense. Just watch what happens at end of the 12th, like what those scorecards would have been, like how this would have ended up. Because I feel like we'd have a controversy one way or another. I'm Luke Wilson.

Join me each week for Film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind. And now, I've got my own show. If you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversations, join us each week. Film Never Lies available on all TSN platforms in the IHeartRadio app. We're going to talk about why Rico overperformed in question number two. But let's talk about kind of like what this does now. So he has been expected to be taking a fight with Ajit Khabayo.

You could see that they were trying to agitate for that. But then Turkey himself was like, well, Rico should get a rematch. Rico says, by the way, he's going to appeal this loss. He says, so the bell went, then they stopped the fight. So I think we might just go and appeal it because this doesn't make any sense. If the bell goes and then stop the fight, why? Of course, mistakes can be made, but looking back at it, the referee should admit his mistake. What do you think?

Are they going to run this back? Or are they going to give Kabayel his mandatory? Or like how's this going to go? This feels like, I mean, we've dealt with this type of thing in the UFC before where a guy's waiting. He's in the wings of the mandatory. I prefer, honestly, that he just takes care of the Kabay-O fight because I'm, that's kind of what it was set up to do, was like to lead into this fight.

And this was supposed to be kind of just, I don't know, would you call it a warm-up? It's just like a novelty fight. Like it just was supposed to be something. he'd get through kind of perfunctory almost. And it didn't end up being that way. But the greatest thing about it is he says he wants two more fights, right? Yusik, I mean, you could still do this fight again after that.

Presuming, I guess, that he's going to get by Akabio, right? Like I, but I think it's a great one, too. He was already kind of, we're already in the business of like making dual appointments. I don't know why you couldn't do something like this. If he wants to, if he wants to keep the belt, if he wants to vacate the belt, I would be all about them running this back right away. the only problem is you know when you get like a guy like francis and gano he comes in nobody there's no real tape on him right like you can just watch his mima fights he goes in there he knocks fury down and all of a sudden we're like what are we watching here By the way, it was very similar to this fight because even the commentators are in this kind of transmote of like, when is this guy going to wake up?

Like they're pointing out that Ussick is just not finding a rhythm and then there's no answers. And then that starts to become astonishment. And I think that that's always where boxing gets at its best is when you're like, what are we watching? This is crazy. But there wasn't a lot of tape on Inganu like to really understand. But when Anthony Joshua watched, I'm sure he could just go back and watch the tape with Fury. and obviously Stiles kind of make these fights and Joshua had no problem, right?

Like he went right through in Gano. You wonder, now that there's some tape on Rico and how he's going to fight in a boxing match or how he's going to do this, you wonder if this will be the one big moment he had and he didn't get it. And that's where it's like, I guess where it gets a little tragic, right?

Because I don't know, if it ends up being that way, where he gets another shot or he loses to another guy and never gets that shot again, you're going to look back on this one and a whole with a very like big what if attached to it. and we see this in boxing all the time. Usik, for his part, claims he just didn't want fans to be bored. We've got a graphic here.

Let's take a look at it. He says the following. I'm not sure. I can't read this from here. Can you see this? Does I read this? If I put on my glasses. He says, they say it was tense watching my fight with Rico.

Guys, I just don't want you to be bored. Come on. Yeah. I got to tell you, for me, in a way, just beat Nakatani. and Usik barely scraped by Berhuvian. In a way is your best pound for pound boxer. It could have been Crawford. He was still around, but he retired.

So it's in a way. How do you understand, do you think Usik took him lightly? Do you think Rico was just, we just don't understand how good Rico is? What happened? I don't know how you feel about it? But don't you feel a little bit for Usik in the situation? I know he gets paid a lot of money, but he's talking in post-fight about talking to his daughter in a bomb shelter. Can you imagine trying to, you know, work through this kind of situation and keep your mind.

And then you put the complacency component because this is what you're mentioning about, like, how the boxing world views it, how the judges may have some inherent viewpoint about the odds, things of this nature. That would be very tough. If you're supposed to just roll over somebody, you're just, there's a, there's a strange, especially if you really feel like, hey, this guy's more dangerous than the public is acknowledging. it's just very difficult to meet the intensity of a guy who's coming for you has nothing to lose when you have everything to lose. And I think that that psychologically might have played a big toll, but just his personal life too combined with this.

I felt bad for him, man. It was an uninterviewable situation that he still survived. And honestly, he did nothing wrong. He did, it took him a long time, you know, the 10th round really, for him to come to life and start to find some rhythm and some answers to things and start like his uppercut, you know, get things rolling that we've seen from him in the past where he looked a little more like his vintage self. But, you know, it took a long time, but he did find it. He did find it. And it's like, you see what it meant to him. Like he gets on his knees afterward.

And I was like, man, you feel good for him. You just feel bad the other way, you know, it was nothing to do with Yusig. I think it's just really the referee that made this more complicated and maybe other stuff. But I think he had to overcome a lot, don't you? I mean, I just psychologically, this was probably a lot on his plate to go through. I think that I mean, I don't Ussick didn't look the best to me that I've ever seen him

I don't think that he completely slept on Rico I don't think that's right I suspect he maybe have slept on him a little bit you know and to what extent that affected training or prep or strategizing or whatnot and I have some theories about this that we'll get to in segment two but like let's just entertain

the theory for a second Chuck that he did sleep on him little bit and you may have seen that from Tyson Fury to sleeping on in Ganu. Yeah. What I will say is if that is the case, right, that both guys, you know, they didn't completely fuck off, but they didn't take it as seriously as they did, but let's say for each other, right, when, when Usik and Fury fought each other twice, if you do that as an A side in boxing, if you take an MMA guy or a kickboxing guy lightly, the difference between you and them almost becomes negligible.

If not, disappears altogether. If you take your foot off the gas as a top boxer because you just, you think you're automatically better. And then the MMA guy or the kickbox, this is kickboxing. I'm going to give him the MMA label, but the kickboxing guy in this particular sense, they will make you pay for that. You have no room. If you're on top of your game and there's, a difference will emerge. But if you let that shit sleep, sleep or slip, excuse me.

Yeah. I don't know how much of a difference there is anymore. I agree, man. And, you know, it's not just, you know, even if, you know, you see. was maybe taking this fight a little lightly, maybe, right? Like, it's really just everybody around him. You know, it's

the promoters, it's everybody else, the fans, it's the media, it's, you know, the, obviously, the Vegas guys, there's so many gambling guys now. It's all of them, right, that like to become this chorus of, well, this, why are we even doing this? There's a lot of people that were questioning,

just like they have in the past with Inganu, you know, why would you even put this fight together? This shouldn't be for the title, you know, like there's such a you know this guy has one professional boxing about in rico like you had people kind of pointing all this out and it i'm sure that it adds up to something of a distraction you know i don't know if you're able to just tune all that out and be like you know what man i got to focus this guy's going to give me the best fight of my life you know that sort of thing i don't think you can i think there was just the setup for that was so naturally for him to roll that it almost

the only way it would be surprising at all is if it was competitive which it ended up being so it was It was a tough circumstance. But I'm with you. Did you feel like he wore down? Because I'm like, I saw at least a couple of people who thought that he was wearing down. I thought he didn't wear down at all, really. Usick or Verhoom? Verhoom and I thought a little bit down when we got later in the fight.

But I didn't feel like Usik. I felt like he conserved well. Like he seemed like he still had a lot of pop. And obviously he'd got the knockdown in the 11th round. Did you feel like he was still bringing it at a high level as the fight went on? So, I mean, I don't want to give away my answers for what I think. is going to be a fun conversation and topic. What I would say is, I did not think Usik were down.

I think his approach to the game changed based off what Verhoeven was doing to him. I think it's Verhoeven who clearly looked down a notch. For example, if you notice like, you know, early in that fight, Chuck, he's like, he's circling Verhoeven to the weak side. So to the jab hands with the jab hand. He's going outside to the shoulder of the jab hand, constantly turning, constantly turning, constantly turning. And, you know, he's moving a lot.

And people were making fun of them. They were doing the Jim Carrey, me, myself, and Irene thing. Where he was like, you know, that kind of thing. I can't even do it. But like, yeah, that craziness that he was doing. But there was a real method to the menace, which we'll talk about in just a second. My point is, by the time, you'll notice in that 11th round when he gets dropped, he is no longer bladed.

He's just straight up hunched over and square, literally square to Usik. Usik's still a little bit bladed. But both of Verhoeven's hips are facing him. And he's just bent over. So bah, he gets stuffed with that uppercut because he was just waiting on it. What I'm trying to point out is this is where some of these differences between a very, I mean, we all agree, Rico's a phenomenal kickboxer and clearly a very gifted boxer as well, but not having that 11th and 12th round experience and the extra gear of cardio boxing specific cardio

that it takes. And whereas Ussick has been in 11th and 12 round bouts of consequence. or rounds of consequence, I should say, for decades almost at this point, right? I think it showed up there. I think he fell apart a little bit there. And I think that's why he was a lot more hitable in those places. Yeah. I thought it was interesting.

And I don't know if this plays into what we're going to talk about. But just when he was asked, when Ussick was asked, hey, did you feel like you had to get a stop? Because I think that most of us thought that, right? And I don't know what they know in the corner. If it really was open scoring, if he knows what's going on. but and his you know he's always such a kind of comedic character but he's like oh it wasn't you know just boxy an uppercut you know and he just talks about this but I did wonder mentally I was like does he think does he start to press you know like because you're you're a guy who's not used to

be in that situation you're sick and like suddenly you're the one who's like they're saying you may need a stoppage and you're like what goes to his mind in that situation but he seemed to me you know like he still had the thunder in it all that but he also had his composure um and I mean that to me that you have to look at that too like you have to say like how often he's been put in that position and he still came through. So I, you know, you got to give him as flowers on that, on that part, right? Uh, you definitely do. Okay, I want to move the conversation forward, but to do that, first we got to remind everyone, Chuck, I know it's, uh, well, it's, uh, it's, it's 11th 30 here in the morning, but we know, when you're thinking

about your Friday March, you got a specific way that you do it, a specific way. Quervo, baby. That's what I do. Yes. Yes, indeed. Chuck loves quervo. I love quervo. I do. I do. We all love Cuervo. From face off to final decision, Fight Night delivers the adrenaline and Cuervo, the energy to match it. Whether you're hosting your crew at home or catching the action at a bar,

Cuervo brings the good vibes that turn every round into a celebration. From Margaritas to Palomas, every main event simply tastes better with the world's most iconic tequila. No matter who walks out with the belt with Cuervo in hand like I have right now, you're already celebrating like an undisputed

champion for every round. Keep it fun. Keep it Cuervo. We appreciate Quervo's support of the show, as always. Nothing better when watching the fights. And this one here is the blue agave from Quervo. Yeah. Your boy got into some Cuervo this weekend. I hope that you were you able to. I mean, a long weekend. So, uh, there's a new, there's a new place in town here called Casa Tequila. And, uh, and that's what we went after, man. But I maybe went a little too hard, but it was a lot of fun that day. Yeah. Sorry, this is the, uh, Cuervo a gold, uh, but it's made with blue agave, gold tequila. Great, from wherever. All right, very good.

Now, let's talk about question number two, because there's other parts to this fight, but I think it's part of a bigger conversation around what happened and what we saw there. Namely, like, for example, the UFC has traditionally been a wrestling-centric promotion. Great striking has always been important, and it, you know, and it always will be.

It's not like it's just important all of a sudden, but kickboxers were for a long time kind of, you know, they've been important, but maybe played a bit of a second fiddle to the most dominant fighters that we typically know. But now that we've seen Verhoeven perform well in boxing, kickboxers have become boxing champions and multiple other kickboxers have become UFC champions, especially more recently.

Is it time to reconsider kickboxing status among other combat sports? Has the sport been in your assessment, disrespected unfairly all this time, Chuck? And if I may, this is kind of where I want to put the conversation. So there is, I don't get the chance to do as much breakdowns as I want anymore just due to my schedule. But there are a couple of places that I trust to do good ones, Chuck. And one of them is a YouTube channel called Boxing Gems. And they broke it down. And there, you can go and see for yourself, I won't spoil their analysis. But one basic core insight

that boxing gems came up with was that the difference was Rico came in with a very surprising game plan to Usik. He did not anticipate it. And so that's why you saw him do real well for long stretches of the fight, but particularly early. But he says that the story of that fight is that the in-fight adaptations of Ussick were the thing that, especially later, made all the difference. And, of course, the referee intervening made a bit of a difference, too. But that, yes, so in the end, the difference was the guys who had been doing it longer, Mayweather against McGregor, Fury against Ngano, and now Ussick against Verhuvan.

Granted, those are M.MA fighters as a kickboxer. but the difference was they were able to adjust and the other ones weren't but nevertheless just to be able to do that well that early that long to say nothing of his career to say nothing of what's happening now in in uh m m ms where you're getting kickboxing champions have we been shitting on kickboxing unfairly all this time well it's a it's a big question because we've seen so many iterations too of kickboxers who come into m m ms we see this all the time right because that's a very natural kind of segue and we've seen varied success I know that you know what was it Marie Smith was that the famous one from way back in the day and it kind of beat Mark Coleman right that was always that famous

that famous moment and you're like okay this is something to be looking at but I can remember like I remember having a thought about this a long time ago I was talking to Gaygard Musassi and his manager Appie Echtel I think was his name do you remember this guy yeah I mean it was this was a long time ago when he was in the midst of like a 14 fight win streak. I was in Chicago to watch him against Sokuj.

And I was talking all about this, about kickboxing in DIMA. Like how do you like how do you, how are you so successful at it? And they started talking about, have you heard of like the Japanese term muai like M a MA hyphen AI, which is like a Japanese manipulation of spatial awareness and like closing the distance? And they were talking about like, you know, his his special ability to do this because Gayguard had kickboxed. you know, in his time and there was something about the relation in like in space. They just knew better how to manipulate space and they were starting, they were basically saying you're starting to evolve that into a wrestling component now, at least of the awareness and

wrestling defense. But like the manipulation of space and just, you know, using, knowing how to like get into the right ranges and stuff like that. And so I've, from this time, this was like 13, 14 years ago, I've paid attention to guys who've done this, just like you have, I'm sure, like, how they use the space in front of them. And some guys are really, really masterful at it. And in recent years, it's almost like we've finally seen the kind of blooming of what they were talking about with guys like Israel Adesania who came in, you know, from glory kickboxing and was able to do some like very masterful work with a decent, you know, credible enough, wrestling in there to just like keep it where he wanted it. And then, of

course, Alex Pereira, who comes in, who's a big rival and he's able to do it before then Shevchenko, people like that who had these kickboxing pedigrees who were able to translate. But I think that it has never, like when we think about a kickboxer, we think like a wrestler will nullify that by just taking him out of, get him off his feet, right, and take him to the ground, and then that's that. He won't have any answer to that. That's not where he's good. But recent times, I feel like we're getting a different look at this. And Rico, I think one of the problems was that we were looking at him and you know you're like well you're taking away his big component right like he's not going to be able to kick you he's not going to be able to kick your leg and

he's not going to be able to do any of this stuff um and that will probably matter but i think that that's why it was such an interesting aesthetic to see his kind of in ring you know IQ and what he did that was confounding to usick right like because he still understood how to manipulate the space and i feel like these guys, that's really what the kickboxers inherently take in. Just like, you know, wrestlers have certain native instincts, these things are just built into the muscle memory. I really feel like kickboxers, if you've done it long enough and you've been in enough competitions, you understand space probably as good as anybody. And that would go again, including a really phenomenal boxer like Yusick. I thought that that's what we saw there a little bit, man.

What do you think about that? Like, because we have, I've seen, I've been a little surprised in the MMA space how much kickboxing is translated and how many good fighters now with Pereira trying for a third belt. It's a little surprising to me still that kickboxing is getting the shine now. It's just kind of funny. I think, I mean, here in the States, because kickboxing has never taken off despite multiple attempts at multiple times by multiple different promoters, I mean, people have kind of cast it aside. Also, like the history of particularly in the MMA side, I realize that we're talking about a boxing fight, but in the MMA side, kickboxers have always been. been important, Mirko Kroka, Mark Hunt, you know, semi-shilt, you can go on down the list.

There's just been a million that have done really well. But like, you know, it wasn't really until more recently where you had Izzy and Poetown where they become full-on weight class champions, you know what I mean? Where they were, and I know, there's been some other ones along the way that have achieved at a high level. I'm not saying that they have it. But in general, like, it's just becoming a lot more noticeable how well equipped they are to do multiple different combat sports. And by the way, not for nothing, like Chris Algeri kickbox

at a high level, Vitelli Klitsko kickbox at a high level. A lot of guys started out, Ricky Hatton started out as a kickboxer. And then they kind of transitioned over. There's been some Japanese guys who have been both kickboxing and boxing champions at the highest level as well. White too was like a kickboxer back now. Dillian White as well started out as a kickboxer. There are a lot. And so what you begin to realize is there is something commercially about kickboxing that has kind of limited its growth and success relative to the other combat sports. But at the same time, there's something so, at Holly Holm, by the way, a kickboxer and a boxer, and she was a boxer too, but like both of them. But there is something so applicable about what it

gives you that it has wide distribution such that you can get a guy like Rico who can come up with a good game plan. It wasn't necessarily enough in the end for the forces that be, but look how far he made it. Look how much of a contest it was, which I didn't see coming. And then on the MMA side, Chuck, one of the things that's interesting is like the, like, because defensive wrestling has become, like defense in general, like, if you, in the old days, if I started to attack you with Jiu-Jitsu, you would have to use Jiu-Jitsu to defend. Right. If I tried to wrestle, you'd have to wrestle to defend.

And a lot of that is still in play, but like, they would kind of fight fire with fire, whereas now people are fighting fire with water. And they're just saying, I'm not even going to play this game at all. And so it's just made the premium on stand-up ability that much more important. So like it's just kind of all of a sudden having this moment, Chuck, we're in multiple different layers in multiple different ways in multiple different countries. Kickboxing is showing itself to be a sport that if it had the kind of fan enthusiasm globally that MMA or boxing had, man, there's no telling how many champions it would produce across numerous weight classes.

I know you used to work with glory, you know, and I remember going to some early events, the Broomfield when we brought this up before, because Israel Adesania was on it. I saw that an early fight of his. I don't know why. I mean, it's a weird thing that it has just never really caught on. But I will say this, the guys who come over to MMA, and, you know, if they, if they're kickboxers, they're very good kickboxers, and they get into the right gym, I feel like they have a better, a better shot at adding the tools. I live very close to share as MMA and like so I've seen Poton in there

you see kind of how they train and one thing that Glover just kind of it's a lot of that it's a lot of on fence wrestling it's a lot of wrestling in the middle it's a lot of that just kind of like finding a natural way and having a you know an answer to it to keep it in your realm like you said fighting fire with water is exactly what they're trying to do right you're just doing enough basically to keep it in your realm

within like a, you know, a fluidity of the way that you want to fight. They work and work and work on that. And I guess because of the natural evolutions in the space, like this is the thing that some of these kickboxers are able to do now. I mean, it used to just be there was a full-on kryptonite, right? If you were just, if you wrestle them, that was it. You could beat a kickboxer. But that is just not the case with a lot of these guys anymore.

And I think the more kickboxers come up and look at the guys who are succeeding, the more you're going to see it. More people are going to be like, I'm going to fight like Poiton. I'm going to adapt just like he did. Right. So I think maybe this is the beginning of something in that realm. It's kind of funny, you know, like, what was I going to say? I lost my train of thought right before you started talking because I'm a fucking idiot. All right. Well, I don't have that long.

I'm going on. I know. No, it's okay. Long Island, Luke, we haven't really sort of tapped you in here. What did you make of what Rico did? And do you have any thoughts about like why kickboxing is all of a sudden, not all of a sudden, but more recently having a lot of interesting shine? I don't really have thoughts on the ladder.

I just feel like it makes sense to me, obviously. Like, it's one of the few disciplines where you're both boxing and kick. You know what I mean? Like, naturally, I feel like kickboxers should be really good translating to MMA. Boxing a little different. Like, I am a little surprised how good RICO looked. And, dude, like, I was listening to the commentary. I know you said you weren't, but like round four starts and they're like so clear as day,

Rico's up three nothing. Like they're all saying it. Coppinger's chiming in. Like, I got it. Three, no. Okay. I look at the odds. Luke, he's plus one thousand.

And I'm like, dude, I'll take him plus one thousand. He's only got to win, what, four more rounds to win this fight? You know, as it goes on, round eight, he was still plus one thousand. Is that insane, man. Sleto, shout out Sleado. He brought this up on submission radio in the comments. He's like, I'm convinced because of the corruption, even the sports books kind of knew RICO was never going to win because of the score cards, all that shit.

And they were like, yeah, go ahead, bet on a plus month out. Like it was never even like getting lower. It's just kind of crazy to me. I noticed that. I didn't notice that the odds stayed crazy the whole way through. But for me as a watching standpoint, it was totally from a betting perspective. I had it on in the side. I was just kind of like listening.

Oh, shit. They say it's 7.1 now. Oh, shit. And then I obviously saw the finish around 11. But yeah, I got nothing to really break down on the fight. I just think it's, you know, we all thought that like, oh, MMA is going to make wrestling popular. And on some level, there was, when I say blowback, I mean good blowback.

Like it led to, you know, increase, for example, in women's wrestling. It's hard to divorce the idea that that came, that MMA played no role in that whatsoever. But in general, you know what would be great, Chuck, is if things like this could actually help kickboxing. I get asked so often, you know, what can a promoter do to make kickboxing work? And honestly, here in the United States anyway, and I don't know what the answer to that is, Dude, Glory and Spike and Viacom, they tried. And it wasn't perfect, but they tried.

Chuck Norris tried his own times. K1 tried previously in the 90s. Scott Coker tried with Beltor. People have tried. And I know people are going to say, well, this effort, that effort was ham-fisted. And some of it was, Chuck, I understand. But like, a lot of MMA has been ham-fisted and kind of stumble towards the finish line.

Kickboxing just hasn't had that. But it'd be really, really cool to live in a world, Chuck, where kickboxing all of a sudden just ballooned in popularity. such that it produced a wealth of new champions. One of the amusing things about this fight was the amount of people who really had no idea who Rico was because of this, right? Like they just hadn't paid attention to his kickboxing career. And I mean, we've covered it. I've watched him fight plenty of times.

I know you have too. Todd Grisham, who was on the calls, was also like, hey, this is unusual to watch Rico, because usually he's a slow starter. In this fight, he came out, you know, kind of guns blazing and showing a completely different look to it. But if you had never watched Rico, what a great, like, if you were a boxing guy who just ignored kickboxing or if you're an MMA guy who's peeking in because this is in the novelty world, the MMA people like to look in on this stuff. Like, you're probably thinking who like this is awesome. Rico, what a what a what a stud. But dude, he's been like this the whole time. So to your point, I mean, if you watch kickboxing, you're going to see guys like him, man, who are.

And I mean, he's absolutely the best. But like he's been doing it a long, long time and a lot of big events. It's mostly held in Europe, but like he has been, he's also a guy with tons of charisma. Like he should be a big star in America. He stars in movies. He does. He's in doors. Like he's a national hero over there.

I mean, he's just, he's that big. But yet there are people here who are just like, who's the kickboxer going, you know, they just don't know them. And it's completely, it was fun to see them like all of a sudden turned on to a guy who was just cameoing in the other world. It was kind of fun to watch that, you know. It was kind of interesting too because there's a lot of boxing people. who are pissed that Usik didn't fight Kabayel and they were rooting for him to lose almost as like

like this is what boxing gets for not acknowledging its own needs, you know, and making these bullshit-ass fights. But, you know, congratulations to Rico Verhoeven, man. That, I, you know, I wish I could say I saw it coming. I just didn't. I absolutely just didn't. And he came in with a brilliant game plan and it wasn't quite enough to beat, as we discussed, chuck all the forces that you have to beat but it was enough to certainly earn i think a healthy dose of respect and that's not nothing in this and from turkey right like turkey's always when he comes in there and they're talking and he's like no no it's almost like a kid who's like you know has the final say at the dinner table type thing is they wait no you know he always comes out there

it does i was it's just funny that he is he wants the rematch obviously like so that's kind of uh that works in his corner because rico as much as he's a star he's made a ton of money too but like i don't know in the in the actual ring i don't know how much he's doing if he's cashing in at the tail end of his career, good for him. And he should be able to even more now. Yeah, no kidding. Before we move on here very quickly, we talked briefly about it on Friday, Chuck. So there was the American, Frank Sanchez was, he's the Cuban, I believe, going up against Richard Torres. Richard Torres, Jr., anyway, he was supposed to be the next big thing in American heavyweight boxing.

Long Island, do you have, I mean, here's the guy on the left. And he just gets viciously, co. here in the worst way possible. This is him. Frank Sanchez plus 300 on draft kings, by the way. So the guy who won was an underdog, and this was supposed to be the big breakout moment of Torres's career.

Chuck, I'll just say this. I'll just say this. I have a very brief take on this. I think people were a little too hard on Deontay Wilder, you know, in terms of being the vanguard of American heavyweight boxing. Is it the great era of foreign? and Ali for American heavyweight boxing. No, it is certainly not that.

But he broke through when, for example, Gerald Miller, or Jarrell Miller couldn't break through. Here, Torres couldn't break through. And I don't know who on the scene at heavyweight boxing in the United States is supposed to be breaking through. Deontay Wilder actually did. And he got shit on the entire time for it. I kind of feel like, you know, this, like I'm not saying this.

He got his back spit on, you know, it's like, yeah, it's like, maybe put some fucking respect on Deontay Wilder's name. No, you're right, man. You know what I, you know, another one of those alternative, you know, storylines that comes out of this. And I saw somebody, somebody was ranting about this, like, that you sick would have just been a regular fighter in the 90s, you know, that he would have just been, do you, I mean, where do you, where would you?

Like, the 90s obviously had some, like, some great heavyweights going, but do you think he would have stood out in that era, too? Yes, I think he'd be good no matter what. Okay. That's my take. But I was like, you know, there were people that were, you know, they're talking about Evander and all the guys that were going on in the 90s and how he wouldn't be as, you know, as competitive against those guys.

And I'm like, man, we rewrite, like, all it takes is 25 minutes of five, whatever that if I ended up being like 30 minutes of fighting and for whole narratives to change in the sport. I mean, Ussick definitely at 39. That's the first time I was like, yeah, this might be coming to a close here relatively soon. That is true. which kind of makes you want to, that's why you don't want to have Cabell. Like you want to get the fights that he's supposed to have, right? Like it's on some level.

I don't want it to go away where like that guy waits that long and then doesn't get his shot. But it was also weird. I don't mean to keep laboring on this. You were talking about A side, B side. You know, they're talking about, talking about Cabell like in Germany, right? Like, why should it? Wasn't that what they were saying? They want to kind of do it in Germany.

I'm like, Germany is a huge boxing market. It is. It is. But I mean, Ussik, to his. His credit is just like, I'm cool. Let's go do it. Let's go do it. But, you know, it seems like for if you really are at the tail end, maybe these things should be more tailor made to you as the champion.

But, but I love his attitude. That's all. I just think he's cool for being like, okay, let's do it. Again, I think the big win. I will say this. Last thing. Last thing for me. It's almost better that Rico got cheated, almost, right?

I mean, I'm not saying it's good he got cheated. That's really not what I'm saying. But I am saying, imagine that they don't stop the fight. And maybe Rico wins the 12th. But maybe he gets stopped. If he gets stopped into 12th, this looks like less of an interesting effort. That's a great point.

Because people are going to be like, well, he got cheated. Well, you know, well, he was, he did well early, but, you know, class showed up at the end. Here you can say, hey, he did well, and they took it away from him before he had a chance, you know. Close on this. If it's reversed, Rico's taking it to Yusick at the exact same sequence.

Bill sounds like this whole thing. Does that fight get stopped right then? Do you think that they take that's what I'm saying, right? Like that's really what that's kind of the one thing that you could look at and be like, well, that's not a fair shake. If you really don't think Yusick and I guarantee you they would not have stopped that fight. I'm telling you, they're just, they infantilized him. Oh, this is his second fight in boxing.

We have to be, we have to protect him. You know what I mean? It's like, motherfucker, what are you all talking about? Okay. Anyway. Before we get to topic number three, hey guys, you know about what time it is. the NBA playoffs, man, I think we're about to get a championship. How about those Knicks sweeping yesterday?

You know what? The good news about Knicks fans is they're definitely not annoying. That's what I love about them the most. It's very quiet, you know. But in any event, Celebrity Row and Mike, look at all the dues. Just yellers. Just constant yellers. All right, the NBA playoffs are here and the, and Draft King Sportsbook and official sports

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pardon me. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino in Kansas, wager tax pass through may apply in Illinois. 21 plus in both states void in Ontario. Restrictions apply. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance for additional terms and responsible gaming resources. See dkng.com slash audio limited time offer. I'm Luke Wilson. Join me each week for Film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind and now got my own show. If you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversations, join us each week. Film Never Lies available on all TSN platforms in the IHeartRadio app.

All right. Let's transition to MMA if we can here, Chuck. Over at the PFL, they had a stop in Brussels, Belgium, where hometown hero Patrick Hebbiora made what can only be called extremely short work, a former UFC lightweight champion Benson Henderson in their main event. Now, here it is you can see right here. He just gets polished off, Chuck, in 20 seconds. Like obviously, look, they put him in the main event.

He's got a big name on his resume. Chuck, this is the third UFC vet. He stopped in a row, all of them in the first round. Like, I get what they were trying here. I really do. But what is the point of this fight if Henderson is so completely shot at this point? Well, it was clear that they tried to give him the old legend sheen, you know, like, okay, this guy, he's a former champion.

He's coming in here, 42 years old. I think most of us would have probably predicted. did something along these. I thought maybe Hindo, I've been to whatever they used to call him, would put up a bigger a front than that. I didn't think you'd go down that quick. But honestly, this felt to me almost

like the Cedric Dumbay type thing in France, where it's like, we want to put together a showcase where there's a guy who has juicy looks good on the billboard. He has a name that people might recognize, all that sort of thing. And we get our guy across. And I mean, if that's the case, I think that that's basically what they did.

The only problem is, I think this was Henderson's first fight in like two years, right? I mean, it's just at 42 years old, this is a guy, I don't know, do you remember when he back when he was, he was the champion in the UFC or like, but in those days. And he was like, he had a plan. He kind of detailed it. He was going to do these things and he was going to get out of the game at like 32 years old or 33 years old. He was like, he was definitive. We all talked about it like, well, he's got a certain shelf life. This is what he wants to do. And here he is nine years later still fighting. And that's never a good sign, man. It's never a good sign

when they drag it on this long. And his record, obviously, down the stretch is not very good. Like, his belt tour, he had a couple of good wins. But, like, I just, I feel bad for these legends because you know they're just kind of being set up in these situations, you know, and 20 seconds, though,

that was, it made it. First, basically took the first big punch that landed. Yes. Did him in. I mean, the crowd goes crazy, and that's great because you're in Brussels like, that was, I have to say, did you watch this card? Like there was, uh, I watched the main card.

So I mean, the atmosphere there seemed awesome. I was like, this is cool. It's like you reminded me of Paris like when they were, when the PFL was there with Dume Bay and just all of anybody local, you know, was just kind of like they were getting the king's ceremony there. I thought that that part of it was really cool. So in that, in that aspect, it makes complete sense for the hometown guy. But boy, that was like serving, you know, serving up a guy on a platter.

as far as I concern there. Long Island, what was the betting like on this one? Patrick Habirora was minus 1850. Benson was plus a thousand. Wow, that's even nuttier than I thought. What's annoying with PFL too, this goes for like all sports books. They don't offer any props.

They just offer the money line. So like I took Habirora. I won like $3. You know, like it was like barely any value on that. I would have taken like Hobby Rora K.O. Hobby Rora around one, something like that. But it was a fun card all together. Like you guys were saying, the crowd was awesome.

The crowd was one of the best I've seen. PFL stands for props and for losers, buddy. So that's, uh, that's right. That's right. I mean, I feel like I don't want to sit here and bash PFL as like, oh, they can't get anything right. It just, which is not the way I feel like, actually, they're getting a lot of things right. I would say, I can't recall a year in PFL history that started like this one where they did as good of a job, packing out venues with enthusiastic crowds more than this year.

I don't know if I can think of one, to be honest. I mean, they're being smart in this sense because the Dubei thing, I think, was a revelation. And they, I mean, I'm a little surprised they're not doing this with Dakota Dacheva. We were just talking Long Island. Luke just said she got a fight in Long Island coming up, which is kind of a great. And Oostman, Nurmira Madoff. Yeah. I mean, so like you're kind of like, I felt like they could have kept that going in a big way in the UK over there.

but, you know, Castello Van Steenis, for instance, fighting in Madrid. Like, this is one of those types of situations. The UFC has not been over there, and you're bringing a guy home who has the storybook kind of, you know, title run. So you're bringing him home for Fabian Edwards. I thought that that was a smart move. Like bringing guys like Logan Storley to South Dakota, right? Like where they're from.

That to me, it's smarter. It's almost like, I mean, we've seen this in boxing a ton, right? Like they might have a Keishon Davis going to Norfolk or something like, that they have guys who are going to fight in their their hometowns, but I haven't seen effective MMA do this. Sometimes there's big events to UFC would do this, but this seems if you're on a scale like that, it at least

adds electricity to the building. And we've had a lot of talk recently about like the soul of MMA, right? Like these Apex shows and the corporate vibe of UFC kind of missing the point, the larger point sometimes of the passion and the fan base. This to me is keeping it.

Like I was watching that event and I was like, you know what man, part of what you want is just to see that kind of passion wherever it has in the world. And I certainly felt that in Brussels, man. And so like to give their guys a showcase like this, it felt like they were on to something. You're right. They're they kind of zeroing in on these markets with the guys that were available to them. And to me, they feel like, you know, kind of high energy electric events. I also feel like a secondary story here is the smaller one. I don't really know what the future is of PFL Europe. And I don't know how they view it as,

I don't know under what terms it is or isn't successful for PFL Europe. But what I will say is, Chuck, like they're clearly trying to get these PFL Europe guys tested up a level. And we saw in South Dakota, for example, that did not work really well. And okay, this is also a squash match in the other direction. And that to me also doesn't make it work necessarily. all that well. But the attempt, Chuck, the attempt by PFL to graduate these guys in what should

be a better system than this, but still just the pushing up in this particular direction that they keep doing, I actually really appreciate from them. I actually, I actually think this is a great thing that they're doing. I just wish there was a more competitive main event that they could have booked him in Long Island, put up the welterweight rankings. These are the welterweight rankings for PFL. So Logan Storley, they say he's not even with the promotion anymore. So you can just kind of put him out. You've got Kura Megamadov as your champ, Shemil Musayev. And then you get Well, wait, Kermagamadov just retired and they're doing Musayev Thad Gene for the vacant. That's right. That's right. That's right. So pardon me. So you got two of the top three guys

already gone. Umal Atulatov, Thad Gene. Uh, Abdurragimov, that's the lazy king. And then the guy, Florims and Delhi who just lost to Logan Storley. I can't read the, Omar last, his last name. And then Patrick Habi-Rora is sitting there. I mean, there are names he could be fighting. The lazy king would be an interesting one. He could be French, Chuck. I mean, he's obviously, I think Russian by nationality originally, but he's French.

And, you know, they could make it, they could do something like that in Europe. I don't know. But I just wish that like, oh, you beat a former UFC champion. That should be able to graduate you to a more obvious place. And I just feel like of all the good things PFL might be doing this year, This ain't going to do that, you know. No, I mean, but it didn't seem like that crowd. I mean, maybe the broader audience is thinking this,

but the crowd there seemed to enjoy it rather much. I mean, if MMA is hot, any place on earth, it's, it's that's what it told me, man. And I think the PFL, that's the one good advantage they have is they seem to hit these markets over there and, and generate a lot of enthusiasm. And it just reminds you, man, we're so used to events, like kind of taking place on a week, you know, weekly basis, wherever they are, you know, and,

but these European markets, when they go over there, it just feels like a whole day. They're chanting, they're singing. I mean, it's just, it's just a whole different vibe,

man. And I, I, it makes you want to go to one. I've never been to a European event. So it makes me kind of want to attend one at some point, just to kind of feel that again. European sports fandom is both better and worse than American sports

fandom because on the one hand, the level of like, you know, jovial community that they enjoy is higher but at the same time they've got people stabbing each other over fucking Arsenal and Tottenham

it's like all right lighten up hooligans so like that part is not the NFL thankfully Luke we do not have that going on in professional football here in America we don't have any we do but like the people who ride or die like soccer hooligans are much more ride or die than American fans

that is true it's just like there's just so fucking toxic I can do that. This is true also in South America too. They'll fucking stab each other up over a team whose budget is like whatever pocket change you have in your fucking jeans at that time. You're like, you're killing each other around this team. Yeah. All right. Anyway, you get the point.

All right. So let's go down topic number four. Let's talk about some of the other features from this card, including but not limited to the absolute goddamn weirdness of the Joe Schilling fight. All right. Look at Joe's face. Okay. Let's set this up here. Let's set this up. So Joe Schilling, who by the way had also been off for basically a long-ass time, was fighting Donaghi Abena, okay? And he gets taken down.

He's underneath. Abena is on top, and he obviously tries to headbutt Joe Schilling. There is really no argument about it, a clear-as-day attempt to headbutt. Now, the headbutt itself, if you didn't see it, it doesn't land full impact. Joe moves a little bit, so it still touches him. But, I mean, to be clear, like, you know, we have talked on this show and all the MMA podcasts have talked how stupid it is to have intentional versus unintentional foul because it's like either you fouled them or you didn't, you know?

Right. This was like clearly intentional. Like, he clearly tried to headbut him. So Mike Beltron, the referee, stands him up. He takes a point from Abana. All right. My understanding of the rules, Chuck, is that if you take a point for something like this, you can either take a point, referee discretion, or you can stand them up.

You can't do both. So if you take a point, you have to return the guy to the original position. Now, I've seen some people claim that even from there, there were some complaints that Joe had about how that position was set up. I'm not entirely sure. But he quits when they put him back down. He just kind of objects to this thing even happening, and he walks off. What the hell do you make of all this?

I couldn't recall a situation like this. Have you ever seen like a situation where a guy's like, you know what? No, I'm done. I'm just not going to fight. Just that one guy on Fox who was supposed to box FAA Ajabba, they start the fight and he immediately walks out of the ring and walks up the ramp. I remember that. I mean, sometimes I've seen, you've seen like guys who have just some kind of disturbance or emotional breakdown and they just kind of check out. Like I've seen, you've seen this over time.

But like, this particular one was like, hey, man, this guy doesn't know the rules. And then when they reset them to go again, it was like he was, it occurred to him like, he was. might just do this again or something, you know, and he just didn't want any part of it. I just have not seen anything like that. I found it very strange. This was the, this was the guy. Schilling was fighting a guy. The dude was in his first, is this his first MMA event?

Was in that right? Like it was kind of his debut or something. Yes. So there's a very good. Pro-MMA debut. Okay. Because I mean, like, there is a big possibility, obviously, that the guy just doesn't know what he's doing in there.

And obviously, as a veteran, like, you can see how that would piece. you that you're like, I'm not going to get my face caved in on something I'm not even prepared to defend, you know, if this guy doesn't understand what he's doing. But I would, I felt like, you know, in that situation when they clearly take a point and the situation was delineated, it was clear what was going on, that it probably wouldn't happen again. We've seen similar things where a guy just straight up kicks a downed opponent or something like that. And you're like, whoa, whoa, what are you doing? And it's almost like the guy's like, oh, Jesus, I I forgot that that's not legal or I didn't know.

And sometimes those are no contests, but the problem is, and I know he'll probably, Joe will probably appeal this, but it's just going to be an L, isn't it? Like this is, he just gets an L hung on him for refusing to fight, and that's not a very desired outcome. I know that he's not trying to win a championship at this point, but that seems like a weird thing to concede in this situation. I just seems like, listen,

I don't think it's a great rule that if they take a point, point they then return them to the spot where the original file occurred. I don't like that rule either. And I, so I want to be clear, I understand Schilling's frustration completely. It's not that I don't share that. But I guess what I would say is if you're going to be this bothered by the rules, you know, and I'm not, I'm honestly, I mean, I'm being serious. I'm really not trying to judge them.

I'm not. Yeah. But if you're going to be this bothered by what the rules are, and even if I agree that the rules don't make a lot of sense in certain cases, you probably shouldn't fight. You know what I mean? Like if the way in which it has to go is this bothersome to what you feel like

what fairness should be, well then the rules can't accommodate you. The rules, you know what I mean? Like they can't give you what you need. And if that's the case, then there's a question about whether you should be doing it at all. You know, it's kind of, I feel.

I mean, Joe's kind of, he's the guy who knocked out the guy in like the Buffalo Wild Wings or something wasn't he remember that like the past Florida where it looked like I thought he was going to be a goner because you know yeah usually when situations like that happened they they don't they're not too discretionary but I guess Florida's got like a

stand your ground laws where oh that's right closely the guy yeah the guy bows up on him very quickly like this yeah and chilling just bah just knocks him out super quick and he got off completely you know um so there's something to be said for that I suppose but also Florida Florida is like you guys want to duel

to the death I mean just do it in the parking lot. Long Island, it seems to me you can point to Taylor Lapulis is a big winner on this card. But our boy, Boris Atangana, I think stole the show, stopping Jared Gooden at 105

of round number one. This dude also looks like he's ready for a big time leveling up of opponents, huh? Hell yeah, dude. I was going to say, I don't know if it's just because this fight took place before the Hobby Rora fight,

but it felt like the crowd was way more invested. Even when this dude's walking out, they're like, it's like people seeing the Beatles for the first time. They're like, holy shit, it's Boris. And then he does this. And then you're going to see it in a second. He jumps into the crowd like he's fucking Jose Aldo. And it's just an epic moment here. But yeah, man, this guy looks like the real.

I want him to headline in Belgium next. I mean, shit, man. Get up you're a real opponent state side. And get this. No, you're right, man. A main event. Like, look at that crowd. I love it.

I love this. He beat Bruno Santos. But it's not the Bruno Santos that anyone knows. It's a different one. There's probably like 50 Bruno Santos's. So in terms of opponents, you may know, this was the first one. I mean, he beat Guillermo sores. Depending who you are, you might know who that is.

But in terms of like a, you know, relatively identifiable figure, Jared Gordon's the first one, but he blew the fucking doors off of him. And the crazy thing is that dude had seven, he had seven UFC fights. You remember him from the UFC? Nobody put him away. No. He lost fights, but nobody knocked him out. So, like, see him get knocked out in a minute.

I mean, sometimes you have to do. that math a little bit to be like, all right, this dude is like, he's packing power and he knows kind of what he's doing in there. Also on this card, Noki, in a way, the rising veteran, he scored a win, a split decision one, a hard fought one. As I mentioned, Taylor Lapolis in the co-meant event, I mean, completely outclass Jake Hadley. There's no question about that. We got to talk about the Taylor Lapolis fight quick, because on Friday's MK, when Danny Seguro was here, we were having the conversation that maybe the UFC cut Lappalus because he was a little boring. And Danny was trying

to defend it. Danny texted me right after the Jake Hadley fight and he's like, yeah, you were right. He's boring. Yeah, because he went three and one in UFC Chuck and then they cut him. And then you're like, why? It's like, eh, it's going to do you know. I mean, when he's on the ground, he's like, come on, you know. Yeah. That crowd was not appreciating it. And then literally, Long Island Luke bet on Hamzot Abayev to beat

Luke Apoclet from Bellator. Didn't know anything about him except his name was Hamzot. So he bet on him. But it worked, Chuck. Good. It worked twice on this card, by the way. Also bet on a new A, because his name was a new way. I know. Both of them underdogs. Isn't it funny how...

Gustavo Rivera. I got to give Gaff credit for Gustavo Oliver, because he's the one who put me on to him, but he also cashed as a dog on this card. Good, good PFL card for dogs. Yeah. MMA in general is pretty good for dogs, right? Yeah. He's got some moments recently, yeah.

I had a decent boxing night, too, because I cashed Frank Sanchez plus 300, and then I had a parlay with Caterall, Shiraz and the over in the Usik fight. Bro, can you imagine if you had put money on Rico and he's just beating the bags on Usik? How fucking bitter you would be about how that went? I mean, I wasn't bitter. I did it live in round four, but

I did put money on RICO. And I still think it was a good bet, you know? Given that he was probably winning the fight, like it was a good bet. It was a great bet. I mean, there's no question about it. So that was the PFL card in Brussels. You've been to Brussels? Never been there. Never been there. People shit on Brussels?

I had a fucking great time in Brussels. I love that place. There's so many European cities I'd still love to hit. I just haven't been extensively traveling through there. Everyone's just like, oh, you know, you got to go to London. You got to go to Paris, which yeah, I guess you do. But like, there's a million other smaller cities that are, in my opinion, a little bit better. All right.

With that out of the way, let's now talk about topic number five, which is just an assortment of news and notes. All right, Chuck. UFC's going to Serbia. Why, no one knows. They don't go to Germany. They don't go to France. they barely go to England but now they're going to go to Serbia.

Why? The answer of course is because the Serbians are probably paying them a huge site fee in order to do that. In your main event, Erosh Medich Medich, taking on Daniel Rodriguez. Now listen, I don't think the fight is a bad fight. But as

a fucking main event, what is this? Plus, we've been booking Medich into like five other fights without this one. I mean, like I felt like there was better options for him. But the bottom line is, I mean, it's a fine fight, you're right. I mean, it's not going to blow the doors off of a

as a main event. But maybe that's a, maybe for the Serbian audience that it works. I will say that Medich, then the thing, the crazy thing in 16 fights, he's just never read to, he's never went to the scorecards. To me, that's like, you know, it's going to, like, you're getting

some kind of action from him, right? And he normally, like, or he usually knocks guys out. So I'm intrigued by him. I've always been like intrigued by him to see how far he can take this thing but yeah it's kind of i didn't really look at this full card did they kind of like put like a comane on it or something that kind of like gave it they added they added two more bouts they didn't say if they're comane okay but alexander rackich is moving up to heavyweight to fight marchion tibura weird okay and then

johnny walkers also moving up to heavyweight to fight anti delia heavy weights baby what do you think how are they skipping the major markets of europe to go to the and nubbers and then putting on number fights to do it. It's like, people like, oh, I don't, I wouldn't want to have fewer UFC events. Really? Really? You wouldn't, you need more of this? I don't need more.

Yeah. I'm good on that. I didn't look at the venue. I didn't really get a chance. I saw the matchup, but the venue itself, I wonder if it's, you know, a big venue or, because the place they went in Brussels was a 15,000 seat occupancy. That's pretty big. I mean, that's legit.

That's legit. NBA arena basically. All right. Chuck, by chance, did you catch what people are calling the worst fighting event ever brand risk from racist streamer Aden Ross who had here's Johnny Mansell, Heisman Trophy

winner in the red, fighting like he's outside of a wah-wah. He kicked him in the ass at least once, like in the ass. Who was he fighting here, Long Island? So we have this discussion. Bob Mennery is the guy's name. I don't actually know who that is, though.

thought it was a sports broadcaster. But he's just some influencer. Yeah, I had no idea who it was. They were talking about that he was at the Red Rock completely like blotto drunk at 4 a.m. the night before this or the morning of this. I mean, this was Dana White, you know, over there talking about because they were making fun of it. But yes, I did have the unfortunate of watching this. And I don't know why.

Yeah, I mean, I got to tell you, if you want to hear white commentators use the N-word and or other, you know, pleasantry. of the great unwashed. This was an amazing event for you. Here's Ray J. Ray J gets knocked out, but he did bang Kim Kardashian, so isn't he really still the winner? He is the winner here. Here's Lance. Who is this? Lance Stevenson beating up

Michael Beasley? Yeah, he's going to sub him right here. I didn't see this one. Rear naked with no hooks in. Two NBA players. Michael Beasley from PG County, no less. Boy, that's the worst rear naked choke I've ever seen. The guy's like, I'm out, I'm out. I'm out.

also Beasley to me a better basketball player one on one than Lance but uh I suppose dude like it's one of the best that way I've heard Dana White appeared on this stream Hunter Campbell appeared on the stream again I was kind of interesting here on the stream was hearing Hunter Campbell because he almost never appears he's like the the Solinger of that world he never gets a mic on him you know yeah I mean the the UFC brass is all in on streamer promotion like they're I mean they're probably they're correct about it yeah but the problem is the audience you attract with that these are people that throw their feces at bank tellers. I mean, you know,

we're not talking about it incredibly dissert. People who are like, you know, how did you drown in the rain? How fucking stupid do you have to be to do that? Well, stupid enough to enjoy brand risk. How about that? That's what I would say. Dana being attached to this slap fight and all that stuff. Like it's like power slap where the fight. I know. I don't think

your palate is all that. Well, that's what, for all those years that, you know, in these kind of, you know, restaurant settings where you're explaining to people like, no, man, you don't understand. It's all based on respect. And these guys come from these different disciplines. And like you sell the sport and you're trying to sell the sanctity of it,

like back when Dana was just the UFC and all this, just to end up in this dystopian future. I know. When I realized that all of that aspirational shit was just a lie to get ahead. And then this is the true essence of what they actually kind of want to surround themselves with. You get a whole different vibe about like, dude, did I contribute to this product? of just like making America dumber. I think I did.

I think I did. I've thought a great deal about this. Speaking of Dana White, we have a quote here. Put it up on the screen, Long Island. Dana White is denying Chuck that the timing of the Connor McGregor return announcement coinciding with Francis and Gano's walkout is in any way coincidence. And what he writes or what he says, excuse me, is quote, not a coincidence.

I had an effing fight here that night. Anybody who thinks that I gave an S, what was going on anywhere else is out of their. effing minds. He's saying it is a coincidence in. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We announced it as soon as we got it done and we were

in the middle of our event. I don't give an F what those guys are doing. Are you kidding me? Chuck, are you kidding him? Come on, man. The dudes had nothing but a record of manipulation of, you know, things and intervening and

you know, doing stuff. I'm like, you tell me that he had no idea this was going on. Come on. That's ridiculous. I say this to everybody, particularly people in D.C. When, you know, they bring up like the White House event to me or something like that. And sometimes they like Dana White and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they don't have an opinion about them. But they'll ask me to react to things he says.

And I'm like, guys, do you understand that whether it's Dana White or literally any other fight promoter? Any fight promoter never under any circumstance. ever accept a single thing they say at face value, particularly if they're like Dana and they're a successful promoter, right? Successful promoters have mastered the art of not merely lying, but not even knowing where their lies began and their truth ends or vice versa. It's all just part of the wash, Chuck. And when they're right, they'll hammer at home. Again, it's not to say that they're not right on occasion or even write a lot in certain cases, Chuck, or right about big things. It might be wrong about a bunch of small things, but they got one big thing right.

That can all happen. It's not to say you can't believe them, but like they'll just take what they say at face value. And I'm like, I don't care if it's Bob Aram, Dana White. I don't care if it's Jonathan Martin, Scott Coker, Eddie Hearn. I don't care. Whatever they say, dismiss it at face value until it is double-checked or until you've had a chance to really assess if it's got any value at all. Everything, everything, everything they say is one billion percent conditional until further review. You know what I mean? And it's like, you know, you're right about the ones who are most successful are going to be the better liars. I remember having a whole column about like these promoters back in the day that was that you're basically saying like they're, they just don't lie well

enough. They don't try to control the narrative enough. They don't have that. They don't have that think on your feet, you know, feel big picture feel to just tell the public what you need to to believe. Like, Dana has always had that, you know? And he knows he's got a, like, an echo chamber, you know, social media. And it's been, it's been there the whole time, um, that Twitter's been around, you know, so like he, he knows that a certain amount of people run with it. So he's just going to say whatever he wants to get across there. Yeah. And the answer is, obviously they did it. Yeah. On purpose. I mean, you've got to be a fucking moron to think anything other than that. All right. Uh, Jake Paul this last week, took some shots, Chuck at Scott Coker's new

return operation. You can see the tweet here as he says, quote, need to see the investors backing this and let them know that they're going to lose all their money. I feel like Superman trying to help them. Wow, Jake, such a good guy. I mean, the tweet kind of trailed off there at the end. But Chuck, who long term from this day forward? That's such a thing. Nothing had happened before from today on. Who's going to have a greater impact on MMA? That's such a great question. I saw that you put this. I would still say Coker, but only because he's had the experiences as a second go through,

and if he has the 60 million, I think he will use it effectively and maybe have a better game plan as to what to do here. But that's the only reason. You got to remember that Coker was the one who had the original insight into women's MMA. You know, like that heavyweight Grand Prix

that he had at the time was a big deal because the UFC didn't have those guys. They were castoffs from UFC or affliction and all these places. pride and he was able to do that. I just think he has a little more foresight and like a more of more skin in the game, I guess, over the long haul. So I would pick him.

And I just don't know. With Jake Paul, it's like you want to believe that now he's in this fight game kind of for the whole time. But he still seems like he just kind of drifts off where he wants, right? Like the way he's, his career has gone this point, I just haven't seen enough evidence that he will stick around MMA for a long period of time. I see it the opposite. I think Jake will have a bigger impact.

Yeah, I think Coker did a great job at Strikeforce. This is my personal opinion. I mean, here's the thing. I had to watch a lot of those Bellator events because I was at Showtime at the time. And I just can't tell you, like the very, very end of Bellator had some good events there, like the last couple, a few months, I would say they had some good events. But in general, dude, the last couple of years of Bellator events on Showtime, I mean, I used to joke with this to Brian all the time.

It's like the official. sound of a Bellator event is the crowd booing the main event. I cannot tell you how many times they got booed out of the building on their main event. And this would happen month after month after month after month. Yep. I think he's lost his fastball. And Jake, dude, I mean, just think about Jake's fights. Like how many good fights has he produced? Basically none. And how good he is at promoting them like very good he's very good at promoting if he sticks around i mean he should he should have the bigger impact because he's he's way more in touch too just with the audience right way more in touch with the audience which i'm not saying is necessarily he's going to make a version of mb i'm going to

like better i'm not saying that i think cocker will probably create a version of right i like better you know the one the one defense of cocker as ben folks had talked to him last week and we were talking about this little bit is just that you know rich chow who was the who was the uh the matchmaker at Strikeforce and Koker. I think that they felt like that wasn't their best version because that was something they inherited, you know, like the whole Bellator thing. I think they're looking at it more like Strikeforce.

You know, like they're looking at more, this is their baby. They could do what they want. They don't have to run by anybody. You know what I mean? Like, so I guess I'm being optimistic by giving him the benefit of the doubt there.

But I guess we wait and see. I will say that you're right. Like Jake Paul, as long as he stays. in it. Like as long as he's doing some with it, he's always going to resonate with the fans. It's just going to happen. Either we hate him, we love him, but we're going to pay attention to it.

I'm Luke Wilson. Join me each week for Film Never Lies. Since retiring from the NFL, I've had a lot of my mind, and now I've got my own show. So if you're tired of lazy takes, if you want honest conversations, join us each week. Film Never Lies available on all TSN platforms and the IHeart Radio app.

Fair enough. All right, last but not least, photos are showing Darren Till, Chuck. Look at the shape that Darren Till is in. He's got his BKFC debut coming up. Let me just say this. Do you have high expectations for this movie? We've seen guys leave UFC and some bottom out of BKFC. But Chuck, look at Mike Perry. Right. He's having the fucking time of his life. It's not just BKFC, but that was like a big, big part of it. Yeah. What are you expecting for Darren Till here? I kind of expect similar things, man. I talked to Darren Till yesterday. Like just about, yeah,

I talked to him. And he was, uh, I, I asked them these very things. I'm like, you've seen guys like Mike Perry, you know, go out there. He called him a Mongoloid recently. He called Mike Perry a Mongoloid for going in there

and fighting another Mongoloid and, and Nate Diaz. But he's setting these traps because he knows that this is kind of the road he's on. Like he can almost touch down and whichever promotion he's in and make a big fight and start to make money. I think he understands it. He's relatively young still, like 32 or 33,

but he's been in the game a long time. I don't think he's going to go back to MMA because his knees just won't hold out he'd have to get like a procedure that would put him on the sidelines for a year so you know the bare knuckle you know if he can i think he's got three fights on this he looks in tremendous shape you'll probably get a if if mike perry comes back i could see them putting this together and that'd being a big deal for for bare knuckle and then i could see him going back to boxing um i think he's going to do exactly what you just said just kind of be one of those guys who's able to you know one-off kind of bounce around he might end up uh i even asked about zuba boxing as like never say never type

thing, you know, like he could end up in that situation. So, um, I think he's going to be that guy. Like he's, he's set up to do it and he's, he's not afraid to speak his mind. And that's always been his strong suit, right? I'm kind of curious. Yeah. I don't know if he's on peptides that were made in a bathtub somewhere in China. I don't know, but I don't really care to be honest, one way or the other. That's the first thing that does come to your mind when you see the physique change that drastically, uh, but, you know, what do you think about Aaron Chalmers though? I mean, that. Jordy Shore.

I mean, that's like, I should have been the poop sound or whatever we do. It should have been the crickets. I fucked down. I should have been the crickets. I'll just say like, I don't know. If they,

if they murdered everyone who's ever starred in a reality television show, it's hard for me to imagine that the world genetic stock would not improve. You know, so. Well said. That's kind of how I feel. Yeah.

All right. Before we get to DMs from donks. Got to let you guys know about something fun that's coming up for the summer. Nothing is off limits. Scary movie is back. Yes, indeed. And the Wayans brothers are bringing the R-rated comedy chaos with them.

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June 5th, go see scary movie. All right. With that out of the way, Chuck, it's time for the audience to ask us questions. It's DM. Okay, let's see here. From David underscore Kirsch 55. Do you think what the performance Rico showed, this now prices the UFC out from signing him,

as they likely won't want to pay him that much? Honestly, he's got some options, Chuck. I'll put it that way. Plus, MVP wanted him too. That strikes me as a place he might do, because he's going to get paid there. And I know that's the kind of thing they want to capitalize on, right? Like they would,

they like to capitalize on a guy who's, or, you know, just a situation where they're at some kind of big time curiosity moment in their career. and I feel like he's there. I don't really think that he goes to O.C. I mean, they would have seen the value in him already, I think, and paid him. I don't think they're going to come correct now.

Do you? I mean, I would like, it'd be great if they did. It'd be great if they did, you know, but I don't know if they like spending money anymore. What if they came after him for Zufa? Ooh. Like, because that seems to be where they got money to play with.

I mean, but I don't know if that's the right place for him for, if you're going to take gimmick fights, are they going to want to do that with Rico? No, but I could see a world where they gave Connor Ben 10 mil or whatever, where they gave Rico 30 mil to just come, yeah, one main event or something. Yeah, I mean, probably he's going to take this Usik fight and or get me, I mean, who's to say, who's to say, but I think he's got options. All right. From Train How You Fight 979, although Usik was well off the pace.

he pulled it out when he had to again. What other fighters have had the greatest clutch gene in your opinions? Anderson Silva had a good one. Oh, yeah. He had a couple of big ones. You know, I, do you remember UFC 165 when Jones came back on Gustavs? Essentially,

he had to come on late to win that fight. And that was, I remember that was a big moment because he answered so many questions. What does he do when he has adversity? Does he have a chin, all those things? So as much as, you know,

as much as Jones has been a complicated figure, I think he's got that. I think he has that clutch gene too. I'm looking at greatest comebacks of all time or guys who had clutch jeans who show up a lot. I'm thinking maybe not the highest stakes except this first fight I'm about to mention, but Yeree, he was losing the Glover fight,

arguably, he gets the finishing round fight. He's losing to Khalil, he gets the finishing round three. He's losing a racket, she gets the finishing round two. Like, that's three comeback. That is true. You did have that. Matt Hughes against Frank Trigg was a big one. But was there somebody who was like always down

who rallied late. I'm not sure who that would be. Frankie Edgar is a great example. Remember the Graham Maynard? I mean, that's still one of the craziest comebacks. And it was a draw, right? Like it ended up the best answer, yeah. They fought three times. And I think he like it was, he lost

draw one, something like that. I forget exactly how it went. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He is the answer. All right. From question number three, from G. Malick, any words of advice for a jaded combat sports fan who is tired of of the BS, RICO versus Ussick stoppage.

I don't, Chuck, what do you got? No, because we've been through. And I feel bad, too, for the boxing media that has to, I feel like every time, like, you could see the ones who are like, this fucking support is corrupt and they go crazy because they've seen it so many times, either scorecards or weird shit like this. We see things like this in MMA, but I feel like boxing, they're the only ones that comes with corruption over the years, right?

And they have such a history of that sort of thing. So I wouldn't know what to tell you. I mean, either you accept that that's part of the sport or you don't be a fan of it, you know? Yeah, I don't. I don't. Every time you watch, it's like, it's not to say that there's no progress on anything that ever gets made that's really not true. But at the end of the day, boxing is simply, and combat sports generally are just too unreliable to expect, like, consistent process. It's just not going to happen.

All right, question number four, from flannels and jits. What are your expectations for Gable Stevenson? It's Steveson, everybody, everybody. Gabriel Steven and his UFC debut. What do you think, Chuck? I think he'll be fine. I mean, like, just the brief stuff we've seen of him so far, he looks pretty good. And he's with the right guys, right?

Training with John and guys in Albuquerque. I think he's with the right people to get his mind on it, correctly and approach it the right way. So I think I think he can be as big as uh, as big as he thinks he can. You know, I think he, but I, I would like to see them take him a little slow until you, you know, you don't want to just see him get like murked early on because he just wasn't there yet. But, um, but I do think he's probably further along than people realize, too, just given the amount of competition he's at over the years. Um, I don't know what to make of him, you know, like, on the one hand, he seems like,

like can't miss prospect. On the other hand, he seems like a horrible human. Now, that would put him in great company. I mean, he would hardly be the only one here within the ranks. But like,

even in that fight he had the last time, did you watch his last fight, Chuck? I think it was in Mexico. Yeah. And he nearly got clipped with like a wheel kick. And it didn't end up affecting anything in the end. But it's like,

yeah, up a level, that might. I mean, he's green. He's fucking green. He's not green as an athlete. He's not green as a wrestler, obviously.

But he's green as a fighter. And like, on the one hand, I do believe that the amount of wrestlers going into MMA has diminished. And I think that's diminished MMA overall. At the same time, the natural advantages that even a high level wrestler like this would have enjoyed 10 years ago are not the same now. Yeah. And so I think it's okay, you know, putting aside his personal life, such that you want to, but just for the sake of argument, if you're just assessing him as an athlete, I think it's, it's okay to be excited about what he could do.

But I would urge caution a little bit right at the state. He's still, he's fucking green. He's green, you know. I will say that, I mean, obviously, like, you can look at this two ways. Heavyweight, anything can happen. One big punch from somebody. It's over. But it's also heavyweight where there's not a ton of talent right now.

And I mean, like, so if he's able to kind of, you know, do it the right way, get a few fights under his belt before he's really tested. I mean, that's probably the way to go here. last but not least from matt shredden he says with aspirin all being pushed back even longer i think he updated his timeline recently after his recent surgery pardon me should they upgrade the gone poeton fight for the actual title or give tom more time chuck what would they do that though i mean at the interim are they saying that he won't be able to return to like fight even the end like for the that title whoever wins that fight

he won't be coming back anytime soon to even face that. You know, it's like, because the interim is basically in place for this very thing. I don't know why you would have to strip a most title if you really want Aspinall to fight the winner, right? Like, you're still setting up a big fight. But, you know, there's politics in this, and I'm not sure that Aspinall is on the best side of the UFC's brass right now. So, I mean, if they did it, it would be more based on that, I think, that they're like, let's just push Tom out of the picture for a while here. I don't think you could do it even with a slightly delayed timeline which we're getting

now if it becomes really delayed I think you could then but I believe that you know I don't know exactly that the fan base would rebel against UFC there's very little that I think the fan base would ever rebel against some stuff I suppose but it would take a lot but I do think that this would cause so many negative headlines where you just the guy got poked in the eye and you know the the argument i'm not

you can say it's fair or it's not fair but the argument is going to be this guy gets poked in the eye and the promoter kind of shits on him which again you can say is fair or unfair but that's going to be out there and he gets you know annihilated by the fan base and maybe he made things worse for himself in the way which he tried to fight and or share every detail but he finally gets on a path to help It takes a little longer than we think, so we're just going to take the title from it because we don't feel like doing it. I just feel like that's going to cause a lot of dissension in the ranks. And they just may at this point,

they're probably like it sucks, but it's probably better to do that than just be assassinated for months on it or something like that. Not to mention you would need like a roadmap to figure out the heavy weight, like all the way back to the lineal champion at that point because that division is such a mess where it would end up if suddenly Aspinol is not, it would be, it's just such a mess as it is. you try to keep it as clean as you can at this point. Yeah.

So I just don't know what else you could do with this one except it sucks. I hate it. You hate it. We all hate it. I feel like we got to wait a little bit more. Let me ask you, before we move on, though, how, okay, so let's say Poetan does it at the White House card, right? How are you going to view him? Are you going to view him as the first three-weight world champion?

Oh, man. I thought I don't mean, because of, we all know the story. It's the interim title, but I'm saying in your heart of hearts. I think I'm going to have an asterisk on that, aren't you? Like, I just, Yes. It's because he's gone to me is not enough. Because we've seen a bunch of dudes do this where they've beat gone.

I mean, and it's not just that. It's just, you're right. It's just not enough. Like Aspinol, obviously, like you would put him in there because that feels like a real champion. I think I'm going to have an asterisk. That's all. I mean, inevitably, he's going to be treated that way. The UFC is going to promote that.

And the fan base is just going to get behind or a certain amount of the fan base is going to get behind it. but in my mind, and you said in my heart of hearts, I would not see him that way. I know, it's going to suck if he goes out there and he, like, even if he just straight KOs gone, I don't think he's likely, but let's just say he does. There's going to be a bunch of fan base. You're going to be like, first three at world champion.

First three way, no champion, UFC. I'm going to be like, well, sort of. You know it's coming. You know it's common. All right. That is it for DMs with donks. Now we do the thing where you roast us and hopefully you make us laugh. The best one each month gets a signed

poster. You can send them to morning combat at gmail.com. It's time for fan subs. You've got mail. Viewers. As we mentioned, best one each month gets a signed poster. So keep that in mind when you make these.

All right. Chuck, this is from Kuja, who writes, Hello, you knuckle dragging Kweefers. Wow, that's quite the intro. All right. long time donk made this bingo card of lukeisms and wanted to send it in hopefully someone gets a laugh out of it it was made in good fun so hopefully LT doesn't pop a coronary much love all right so there's like the worst picture of me everywhere in the middle there and then it's joseph A bank what else we got there land of wind and ghost trash is tk o UFC's a monopoly let's turn our attention to self deprecation fart poop joke gets sanctimonious Jokes that is jokes in quotation that his family hates him. Projects his former hatred of women onto the audience.

Mentioned being in the Marines. I am really one half of the hosting duo. Mileage may vary. Insult someone for not liking or excuse me for liking something he doesn't. That is true. Teases Long Island about hating his girlfriend with that in the end. You know what? This is pretty fucking good.

It's pretty good. is this good, Luke, but I went ahead and I printed it out and I played today. No way! So, unfortunately, I thought you were going to get a clean sweep. You only hit like six of these or five of these, I guess, plus the free space.

It was also like pretty hard to pay attention. So, you know, maybe it's not the most accurate score. Wait, hold it up one more time. So I can see. So I can see. So it's one, two, three, four, five by one, two, three, four, five. So it's 25 in there.

the normal size of a bingo card? I don't know, man. I don't play enough bingo to know that, but I'm going to assume it's accurate. But you know, you did an ad read. You did an ad read. You insulted someone for not liking something that, or for liking something you don't. You did say from the capital of Los Dados Unitos, but you didn't say your one half of the hosting duo. I thought for sure you'd nail both of those. You did get sanctimonious, I believe, when we were talking about the Johnny Mansell card. And, uh, you trashed TKO at least once. So, they're, well, I mean, that's inevitable. it's going to happen pretty good well well played well played all right chuck this comes from jamie i don't if it's a boy or a girl i'm guessing it's a boy i managed to hack the podcast after y'all ended the

live stream and it was just as one would expect and then he writes p s long island i'm not sure how you have your studio set up but i've always pictured your girlfriend in some corner of the room twiddling her thumbs idly misspelled while you decide whether to give her attention or not a bit like hassan hiker and his dog. Let's see what we have here. Until then, may all of your gains be loyal. I got to go find a Joseph A. Bank. I'm so not okay.

I said, I'd be there when I'm doing the crack. Oh, was that the cake lady? Yes. Dude, that was fucking great. I went back and paused that on like my clips. It puts all these funco pop dolls behind me. I don't own one funk. pop, but AI just thinks I have like hundreds behind me.

It was pretty good, dude. I showed that to my girlfriend, too. I was like, this is fucking hilarious. That's great. That's really great. All right, from Colin, he says, Morning donks. When you're reading this, which is Tuesday to 26,

I will officially be one week post bone marrow transplant for my leukemia. Hell yeah. I'm still doing well and still tuning in for the content to give me much needed entertainment. Here's a meme that describes a struggle I've had. every time a nurse has checked in around how I'm feeling after any of my treatments. Thank you for all the kind of words with my last meme.

I can feel the love from Dalk Nation while I heal. Call it. When my nurse asks me how I'm responding to medicines, on the one hand, respond with an honest, straightforward answer, say, I'm feeling these margaritas, Brian. I'm feeling these margaritas, Brian Campbell. Well, I mean, I think you know what the answer is. You've got to tell them you're feeling these margaritas. That's the only way to fly. That's a great one.

Well, we wish you continued, continued great, you know, a path to recovery. We wish you for that, Colin, from wherever you're writing this from. Okay. We send you great, great spirits. All right. Last but not least, we got six memes from Mike. Let's see what Mike has in store for us, Belator. Scott Coker, Global MMA League.

Yeah, I don't know how I feel about the global MMA league part of it either, Chuck. Like, wait, is that the name of it? No, but they claim in that Hollywood report. quarter piece that that's going to be kind of like the structure of it and I don't really know what fuck one of that is. Yeah. That's not promising. All right. Boxing commissions. Rico on the verge of beating Uc. You got to slap on that controversial stoppage to stop that bleeding. That's a pretty good one with the flex tape name. Here is one. Is that the rock at the top? Oh, yeah. That's the rock. Now that you got your house, you can focus on your MMA career. I'm retiring. Oh, it's Thumba,

right? Thumba Garimbo or have you say? Oh, yeah, yes. Remember the rock bought him a house and everyone was like, oh, this is great. And I'm like, you know they're just spying on him and they're going to fucking kick him out the instant they have to get up. Got about that. Retrieve that property. Let's see what we got next. Chuck on morning combat, Chuck on the crack.

Are you? This weekend, I'll be doing the crack. Are you bitter on that thing? Are you different on that thing? It's Friday, man. I don't want to be on these shows. You know what I mean? No, I'm kidding.

I'm the same. I'm the same. I think. apparently not apparently they think you're not all right Long Island Luke is too damn high yes the rent is too high and so is my producer I could tell you that

for a fact and then we have what we have one more Dicks Dicks everywhere Dicks that's a great one as Buzz Light year looking at all the penises and I think there might be one more that's it all right that's pretty good

not bad Chuck not bad Yeah not bad All right Chuck it's already Tuesday. What do you got going on for coverage of the sport the rest of the week? Well, I'll have that Darren Till piece coming out probably tomorrow or Thursday. And then

I will not be on the crack on Friday, but we'll have, I'll have some kind of coverage for this weekend's event, too, probably a column in some form. You're going to do something fun on Friday? Yes. And I mean, I'm going to, I have a writing gig that I got to just do. So, yeah.

I mean, it's fun stuff, but it's like, it still work. Work sucks. Yeah, it does. I just, I told my wife this. I just want to, I want to rugpole the MMA audience, collect like 10 mil, and then just never be heard from again. Like, whatever happened to Luke Thomas, just kind of disappeared one day.

He stole everyone's money in a crypto scam. The leitokito coin. He went and he looked at and we never saw him again. And then just move somewhere and never just invest my money smartly, live, you know, live within my means and then just never if someone gave me 10 million it was like you don't have to work anymore why would these like rich people who are like have made hundreds of millions like i still want to work why why the fuck would you want to start your own promotion luke i mean i would dude if i want here's a question would i rather set my money on fire wipe my ass with it or try to start an m mma league in 2027 i'm

going to pick setting it on fire and or wiping my ass with it no man i i i can't imagine you doing That would be the wrong gig for you. Long Island, what do you got going on this week? I got a bet breakdown for this Macau card coming up. So that'll come out in like two hours. And then what else we got? Prop quiz on Friday. And then Saturday, Macau, watch along starting at 4 a.m.

Eastern, you know, you boy. We'll be there for the full card. Let's go. This man, he loves MMA more than he does a healthy life. That's really not a good thing. Let's see. What am I going to be doing? I got a bunch of shit going on this week.

Stay tuned. I don't know. I've got too many things to even count at this point. All right. That is it. So you can follow us on social. You can see there below.

You can follow Chuck as well. Morningcombat at gmail.com is the email to reach the show for fans, dead wrongs. And anything else you might need to reach the show for. We do have merch, morningcombat. Shop. About a week left, you know, give or take here. To get this May exclusive,

Renegades of Donk, the DC 101 logo, and then the Whippets in the, the parking lot morning combat dot shop go get those now if you can all right for long island for the iceman himself chuck mendon hall i'm luke thomas thank you all so much for watching mk we'll see you on friday and until then in all of your games be loyal this is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human