MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - PACQUIAO, LEON EDWARDS, GREG HARDY, HOLLOWAY VS. EDGAR | MORNING KOMBAT | Ep. 3 | BELOW THE BELT

Episode Date: July 22, 2019

Today's episode of Morning Kombat with Luke Thomas and Brian Campbell includes Manny Pacquiao, Leon Edwards, Greg Hardy, Holloway vs. Edgar, and more. MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL, Showtime's first live digital series, spotlights the weekend’s biggest news from the world of combat sports. MORNING KOMBAT airs live every Monday at 12 PM ET / 9 AM PT. #BelowTheBelt #MorningKombat Subscribe to the BELOW THE BELT with Brendan Schaub channel: http://s.sho.com/BelowtheBelt Get More BELOW THE BELT with Brendan Schaub: Follow: https://twitter.com/btbshowtime Like: https://www.facebook.com/BelowTheBeltSHO Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/belowthebelt/ Get more SHOWTIME: Website: http://www.sho.com/sho/home Follow: https://twitter.com/SHO_Network Like: https://www.facebook.com/showtime Instagram: https://instagram.com/showtime/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Rise to rewards with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card. Terms and conditions apply. It is Monday, July 22nd. It's time for Morning Combat. My name is Luke Thomas. I'm the host of this program. I am joined by my co-host, Brian Campbell from CBS Sports. From a lot of different places.

Tell me where he's been. He's been on the road. Back today. How are you feeling? You've had a hellation. Day nine of this rodeo road trip. I'm not responsible for any words that come out of my mouth, just to let you know. You never are. We have a lot to get to today.

So we have UFC on ESPN4. We have Pac Thurman, which he was at in Las Vegas, and a bunch of other headlines. Now this is a live program. A lot of people think we tape this. Dissected is tape. Morning Combat is not taped, this version of it. So there was news this morning, Brian. I don't have a crazy take for it, but we need to get to it before we get to all the stuff that happened over the weekend. Namely, okay, Jon Jones was not arrested, but he was charged with battery related to an incident involving a dancer at a strip club. Cocktail waitress, if you will. Cocktail waitress, something like that. Some of the details are still a little bit unclear.

It was an Albuquerque news outlet that posted the story, and some of the MMA outlets are catching up with it. I first saw it on Bloody Elbow. There's a lot we don't know about it. He took to Twitter this morning, John Jones, the current UFC light heavyweight champion, saying he's still looking to fight in December. Don't believe everything you read, blah, blah, blah. I've been known by John Jones as a hater. I've been known by John Jones haters as a fan of John Jones. I'm kind of in the middle. Very quickly, I don't have the hottest take on this one. I'm wondering if you do. Is there anything to really derive from this, knowing as little

as we do? The only thing I can tell you from it at this point, without knowing the information, John Jones denied it. He didn't know, apparently, there was a warrant out for him. Oh, and by the way, he had a person speak on his behalf, some flack, I don't know. But they were like, he's not only not guilty, there's going to be multiple witnesses corroborating

his side of the story. So innocent until proven guilty, I don't know what to make of it. That's certainly there. Obviously, though, in the court of public opinion, if there's any value in these haters online, you're naturally going to doubt him based on his recent history. So that's sort of in there. We'll wait to see what happens. I just think as a whole, though, there's been some disconcerting things that's come out of John's mouth

since he's gone down this road of sort of trouble, peaks and valleys, coming back, saying he's a clean man. When you interview him, when you actually sit down and hear from him, he does say the right things, except sometimes there's like, I'm no longer doing recreational drugs, but I'm still going out these clubs and staying out late with my friends. And sometimes when you hear some of those things, you go, if I'm a public figure at this level, if they're calling me the greatest fighter of all time, yet I've had so much trouble, maybe I'm a public figure at this level, if they're calling me the greatest fighter of all time, yet I've had so much trouble, maybe I won't go to strip clubs late at night. Maybe I won't go to clubs late at night.

Maybe I won't go out partying. Maybe I'll protect what I have. That's just maybe a little bit of a word of advice, whether no matter guilty or not, you just want to remove yourself from those situations when you have this much to protect. Yeah, it's a question of just risk management. How do you manage risk?

And so for me, it's like, look, he's saying he didn't do anything. By the purposes of the law, he has not been established to have any guilt. So as we speak today, I don't have a hot take on this other than to say, and again, he says he didn't do anything. But just for young men of the world, it's not hard to not get in trouble at a bar. Like it's not hard to go to a strip club and not get in trouble. It's actually pretty easy. And if that's a thing that you have difficulty doing, and again, we don't know that's the case here, but if that is, you don't get to have everything in life, right? There are certain things based on what you ethically believe in based on what you're naturally prone to do or not do yeah you can't get to do everything so we'll see what the courts say

we'll see what john jones says he could this could all be some misunderstanding he could be totally innocent being framed potentially but all i'm saying is if you're the kind of person forget john jones if you're the kind of person that goes to bars and gets in fights that or whatever the issue that's a you issue, man. It's very easy to go to a bar and not get in a fight. I'll never forget. I fanboyed once at the 2001 NBA All-Star Game, Washington, D.C. I don't know if you happened to frequent that at the time.

As a fan, you wait by the alley of the hotel. You high-five Shaq. You can meet the players. There was one player who was not there the whole weekend, Allen Iverson. Asked other players why. Where's Iverson? He's got too much to protect. He wants to stay out of the limelight.

He wants to stay out of trouble. At that point, hey, John, maybe stay away from the strip clubs. Or put a pole in your basement. You know what I'm saying? Bring the action to you. At this point, just stay away from the potential. Big boy style and outcast. He has a stripper pole in his house.

All right. So let's get to the weekend action. We'll get to Pac Thurman in just a minute. We'll start with the MMA side of things. UFC on ESPN4. It's in the books, ladies and gentlemen. Leon Edwards defeats Rafael Dos Anjos. He was 12th ranked, taking on 4th ranked RDA.

Dude, RDA took such a risk with this fight. And you can see why fighters don't do that. Because it blew up in his face. He didn't get mauled. But everything he was working towards, because you had only Colby Covington, only Jorge Masvidal, and only Kamaru Usman as the champion, then Tyron Woodley in front of him. That's it.

So he was right on that precipice. I thought if you won this fight, Brian, you would have had RDA versus Tyron Woodley. Who else would he have fought? And now he lives to someone who's outside the top ten. Oh, my God. So. Funny that you would use the terminology blew up in his face when he did have that 70s adult film

mustache and the only problem in that fight over five rounds, the money shot never came in. You know what I'm saying? Yes, and that's the thing you'd like to say. You certainly may. How does the win, I'm thinking about this out loud, shake up the division? So, before you had a guy sitting at Fort RDA. He's clearly going to drop out of the top five. I doubt he drops out of the top 10, but now you've got this new

entrant at 12 jumping up the ranks. Now, he has said he's called Askren a bum, I believe, and I think he even called out to a degree Jorge Masvidal, although he called him an amateur. Called him a weasel. Yeah, my attitude about this is people are like, Jorge Masvidal should take the fight against Leland Edwards. Why on earth would Jorge Masvidal ever accept the fight? Leland Edwards is good.

No, nay, excellent. No one knows who he is on this side of the panel. That's slowly beginning to change. And he's behind you in the rankings. You just saw RDA take the exact same risk and it didn't pay off. If you're Jorge Masvidal, you've never been this high up on the food chain before. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see them fight. It'd be a good fight. And maybe Jorge even wins. But as a risk right now, it makes no sense. So it's not really clear to me how they're going to do this.

Maybe the Diaz of, winner of Pettis Diaz, but I don't think they're going to do that either. My sense is they're going to have a hard time finding this guy an opponent because no one knows him. His style is not action oriented. And he's really, really good. How do you think it shakes up the division? I think he's got a problem. You just nailed it. He's really, really good. How do you think it shakes up the division? I think he's got a problem. He just nailed it. He's really, really good.

Leon Edwards is almost too good for his own good in this bubble. And the fact that he's in the wrong division right now. He's got an eight-fight winning streak. He's been fantastic. He minimizes risk. He's efficient. You could do a long breakdown in front of this blackboard teacher and really go nerd-heavy on that like you like to do, which is fine.

I mean, you're more of a masculine nerd. You're beating at gas stations. Anyway, my point on this is, look, he's really in the wrong division. He's almost getting to the level of where Tony Ferguson is now, 12 straight wins, or Max Holloway was at featherweight where it's like, when's this guy going to get it? Right now there are marketable players in this division, and it's very deep. And there's one thing he does not do, along with not really being a big personality and call himself rocky He did the problem is he doesn't fight like Rocky Balboa or even Rocky Pennington

He fights almost like a Floyd Mayweather or a champion version of Tyron Woodley and that's smart and that's efficient But he's not markable and he doesn't finish and that is a problem in a Dana White promoted Entertainment era UFC where we are right now, where in his last 10 fights, he only has two finishes. It would be a great story for him to one day get that Usman rematch, because Usman was the last time Edwards lost, what, four or five years ago. Problem is, they're both kind of the same fighter. Not extremely marketable, very good at what they do, and they don't finish.

So he's not getting that shot anytime soon. Edwards' best case scenario on a marketable fight is Masvidal, like you mentioned. I don't even think he sold it enough in the cage afterwards. No, he did not. Like he should have or could have. I mentioned on last week that the worst case scenario for Masvidal is to get that Edwards fight. Because you can show the footage

of them fighting and talking trash, whatever. But, again, if you're Masvidal, like you said, why in the world would you ever sign up for a Swiss Army knife trap fight against Edwards where he can do a lot of things to expose you when you are trying to cash in on a title shot or big money? I feel bad for Leon. If he was anywhere else, you'd be knocking on that door.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Did you see, and I may have missed this, so if I did, I'm wrong. Did you see the UFC showing any of the footage between Masvidal and Edwards? Dude, was that not a crime, promotionally? Promotion of malpractice? How do you not get that right? Well, I think it shows you what their thoughts are.

This is not a fight they're looking to promote right now. Right. But that's the viral moment that that guy had. I said this last week, and you were like, or maybe it was the first week, and you told me I was wrong. That guy, Leon Edwards, was involved in the viral moment that that guy had. I said this last week, and you were like, maybe it was the first week, and you told me I was wrong. That guy, Leon Edwards, was involved in a viral moment and got virtually no push from it. All the push went to Jorge Maslow,

which, of course, he's the one that said the three-piece and the soda. So it's more about the interview with Brett Okamoto than it was the actual stealing on him and then gliding out, as he liked to put it. But nevertheless, I would have sworn that's the way to get this guy ahead. I also have to say, I don't know whose PR people are,

but they might want to rethink their strategy. This guy does virtually no interviews. Now, maybe he doesn't want to. Maybe he doesn't like it. Again, nobody owes the media anything. But if you want to get ahead, you want to get the right opportunities, okay, you got this RDA one. Everybody in that division is going to look at that RDA, the lesson here,

and say, yeah, thanks, but no thanks. What's the upside for me? I don't know what it is. And there's two ways to sell yourself on ability and marketing. And we just sort of examined how Leon may be a step behind in the marketing. But Jorge Masvidal, by lighting you up with the three piece, kind of gave you a chip. He gave you a chance to sit at that table.

Another guy who doesn't like doing media, but he does just enough of it to get ahead. But he does media in his own way as well with his online personality and how he carries himself. And I'm not saying, look, if you're Leon Edwards and you're not a trash talker and you're not flamboyant and you're not a jerk, I'm not saying you have to be one, but I'm saying if you want a title shot in this division or you want a marketable fight, it would help to sell the idea of I'm really mad at Jorge Masvidal and I deserve a chance at him right now. Is Leon Edwards a boring fighter? There's a lot of people who say that over the weekend. I have my own thoughts on it. I'll give it in a second.

To a casual fan, yes. But obviously to a fan who understands his game, no. I guess here's what I'm asking. Is he boring enough that it's a problem? It's only a problem in this division right now for his chances at big money in title fights. Yes. I mean it. If he was in a more shallow division, how would you deny somebody with eight straight

wins who looks that good? I mean, look, Dominic Cruz did a great job on the broadcast on Saturday night, sort of explaining. He always does. But explaining to a donk like me who can't do the math on the screen like Professor Salt and Pepper over here, and I sort of started to see things. I was only listening to Leon Edwards' fights before, but because of Dominic Cruz, I was hearing Jimmy. You know what I'm saying? You know where I'm going with this right now? Yes. Finish your point. I was only listening to Leon Edwards' fights before, but because of Dominick Cruz, I was hearing Jimmy.

You know what I'm saying? You know where I'm going with this right now? Yes, finish your point. I just did. All right. Well, nevertheless, here's what I would say. Is he a boring fighter? To the audiences that might help him get ahead, yes.

It all depends on what your combat, sports, and fighting palate is. Do you like sophisticated fighters? Do you like MMA fans like fighters who are... They like RDA much more than they like Leon Edwards. Not necessarily as people, although maybe that case too. But I show in the math, speaking of the math, RDA numerically lands just a little bit more than he gets hit. That's exactly what they love.

Leon Edwards is vastly a part. He lands way more than he gets hit. He slows the fights down. He puts it all at his rhythm, and he's sort of circular. He's so smooth. He's so poised. He doesn't take chances, and that there might be the problem. To an extent, here's the thing.

If you're a casual fan, and you want to say Leon Edwards is boring, then these people are so far removed from understanding the fight game, I'm not really going to argue with you. What you can't say is, I'm a hardcore fan and he's boring. You can say, I don't prefer that fight style. You could say, it's not one that's going to really, it's not as exciting as other ones. But boring isn't a description of low activity. Boring is a claim of, this is a lesser than, than the alternative.

No, it's a greater than the alternative. It's just one that's much more measured and considered. But true or false, in 2019, if you're going to be a risk-averse fighter who's efficient and minimizes the danger coming at you, you better talk. You better be able to talk. You better be able to sell yourself. You say that, but Tony Ferguson, look at him.

He is all action all the time and has been since 2012, which is the last time he lost, and he can't get a title shot. Okay, but he's in the most historically deep division in UFC history. Fair enough. And, by the way, he tripped over a cord and he's had some... Fair enough. I'm just saying by itself, being action-oriented won't save you. All right, nevertheless, we now go to the...

Well, it wasn't the co-main event. Walt Harris had a nice win in the co-main event, Brian. But we saw Greg Hardy get back to action and just absolutely mollywhopped Juan Adams. What did you learn about Greg Hardy? Not much. From a fighting standpoint,

not much. This wasn't a fight. What the heck is Juan Adams doing? By the way, stoppage you're okay with, right? Yeah, when you're not fighting, when you're doing nothing, when you're holding a leg and you're getting punched, you're asking to be out. So maybe he was a little bit more looped out than we thought at that point based on the takedown and the punches that started.

I'm not sure. But to talk of the kind of trash that Juan Adams did, Juan Adams sort of made his move to try to become someone that we would know. He wore the tight shirts. He did some weird things. And then to fight like that, he laid an egg. So here's the problem right now with Greg Hardy. And maybe the problem with how we market him here.

I didn't learn more about who he is as a fighter. I still know he's a plus athlete and an ex-NFL player and he hits really hard. What we don't know is what's going to look like and what's going to happen when he finally gets in there with somebody who can take his punch and stretch him a little, stretch the gas tank, stretch his ability in terms of the ground and all those things. So this was just sort of

a keep moving forward, nothing. I don't know yet what Greg... I disagree with that. I don't know who Greg Hardy is yet as a brand in the MMA world. I don't think he knows it yet. And I think he and also the UFC kind of need to figure it out because there's obviously... He's so polarizing in both directions.

I think you've got to pick a way. And there's times when he's sort of talking this reckless trash. You see his comments a week before about how he wants to get into boxing. He's going to be the greatest heavyweight combat sports athlete in history and all this reckless trash. You see his comments a week before about how he wants to get into boxing. He's going to be the greatest heavyweight combat sport athlete in history and all this great stuff. And it's like, slow your roll there. You're closer to CM Punk right now than you are to Daniel Cormier. So slow your roll there. But number two, it's just sort of like

are you going to be a trash talker that is going to play into the idea that people hate you and are not going to give you a chance, but they're damn sure going to watch you to hope you lose? Or are you going to play you a chance, but they're damn sure going to watch you to hope you lose? Or are you going to play the redemption story angle, I'm new at this, but guess what? I'm really good and I got this big right hand.

He's sort of towing that line, and for his sake, I almost wish he would pick a road. This is the exact problem. When he's outside of Fight Week, and to an extent inside Fight Week, but much more outside of it, he's Mr. Manners, redemption story, I'm with my family, I live a private life. Yes, sir, no, sir my family, I live a private life. Yes, sir. No, sir. Right. All that nonsense. And then come fight week, I understand you're much more amped up,

you're more in a combative mindset. And then after the fight, you sound like a lunatic. And again, not him. All fighters do when they're all full of adrenaline and whatnot. And it winds up being this completely confused message where I'm trying to sell you on the fact that this is a different scenario. But it's the second part of the mixed message to me that I think if you're a Greg Hardy hater, and I'm not telling you to not be, I'm not, I think for me, it's like, I have, I don't know what your view on Greg Hardy is. Number one, if you can't fight in a cage in this country, I don't know what you can do. Secondly, here's the thing. That doesn't mean UFC should sign him. So that's a different scenario, but here's the thing he wants to talk about. Like, and his manager, Malky Cobb was saying, oh, he paid his dues maybe in a way that we don't understand's the thing. That doesn't mean UFC should sign him. That's a different scenario. But here's the thing. He wants to talk about like, and his manager, Malky Cobb, was saying, oh, he paid his dues.

Maybe in a way that we don't understand as the public, and I'm willing to believe that. But here's the problem. He didn't make his peace with the public. So the public's not going to make peace with him. So that's the scenario he lives in. And as long as he lives in that, he's going to have this part. People say we didn't learn anything about Greg Hardy. I think on the second part of the confused message, we did. We didn't learn how much he has overcome the stuff

that he's bad at. That part is true. For example, getting to the second round, can he wrestle? Does he have a gas tank? There was no questions answered there. But the parts about what he's good at, he did sharpen the steel a little bit. Dude, consider Mark Ellis, who was this elite wrestler that was recruited to come over into the pro-elite days. He had one or two fights and said, I cannot do this. Greg Hardy, I got bad news for his haters. He seems to love this. Okay, but what did you learn technically from this fight?

Okay, hold on a second. I'll get to that. And in a situation where he's in a division where he is clearly athletically more gifted than just about everybody else, maybe not Francis for combative reasons or whatever, but very athletically gifted. Dude, Greg Hardy is going to be here a while. I think you should, whether you like him or you hate him, and again, a lot of people hate him, and I don't particularly care for him, but he's going to be here a while. You need to get prepared for that. This idea that he was just going to be some kind of CM Punk, flash in the pan, fight a Mike Jackson type and get washed,

no sir, that is not going to happen. This quality of an athlete in this shallow of a division with trainers like Dean Thomas, Mako, and all the other guys, dude, they're going to make him, I don't know how good, but good enough to be around. He's in the right division.

He's going to be able to beat guys he shouldn't just on the explosiveness and the power right so here's what did i learn he had good hips in this in this fight not how much did we really learn about it no here's the point go back and look why did the takedown why did juan adams land in the way that he did because he got forced to the ground by the sheer the hips don't lie luke we have learned that well why would his fate or why was he able to compete as a heavyweight because he had the most mobile hips underneath when he needed to be but the point being is he was strong in that position. He throws damage in all positions. It's not like you, people want some moment where they're like, aha, now we know Greg Hardy.

But he's at heavyweight. Look at Francis. How much do you know about Francis since he came back? How much do you know about Francis since he came back from the loss to Derek Lewis? Okay, you know he's mentally recovered because he looks to be in the zone. Do we know anything about his gas tank? Because that's how heavyweight goes. To solve that answer about what we know about him,

it's going to be interesting how difficultly he's matched moving forward. Because are we going to get sick of, and it doesn't matter really, but are we going to get sick of watching him blow away these bottom feeder level heavyweights in one round because he's just athletically stronger than them? Should they step it up a decent notch now and not care about him taking a loss and being exposed because in MMA you're going to have to learn and grow along the way. Yes. Well, that was the thing about Francis was they were not giving him easy fights, but

they were giving him guys who were strike first friendly kind of thing. But then they gave him the other ones. They gave him Stipe. That didn't go well. But they gave him Cain. Didn't go well. He fought Curtis Blades twice. You're really going to go with the Cain. They gave him Stipe. That didn't go well. But they gave him Cain. Didn't go well. He fought Curtis Blades twice. You're really going to go with the Cain pronunciation?

It's morning combat. I'm just feeling feisty this morning. But the point being is they gave him all the wrestlers short of Daniel Cormier. And they get a rematch with Stipe that they could possibly give him. So we're going to have to see what happens with Greg Hardy. But this idea that he's not going to materialize, I see every time he fights, we're like, man, I can't stand Greg Hardy. You might want to back pocket that because he's going to be around for a while.

At least if he can stay injury free or something like that. It's going to be also interesting to see Brian. Let's say he starts to get really good. How are they going to market him? That's my biggest question because he's so polarizing. I do think you have to pick a lane. And like I said, I think he does too, personality-wise. If he doesn't want to do the sit-down on Barbara Walters,

I know that's a dated reference, and do the deep apology to the camera, I'm not saying he has to. But if you're not going to do something like that, you're going to be a villain to so many people. So when you're going to do some of this corny trash talk after the fight, I'm almost saying play the villain. And I'm not saying every African-American fighter needs to pick this role and play the villain

to get the most out of him financially, but I almost think they do need to make the decision. Are we going with the second chance narrative? Or are we going with, I'm a badass and I don't care, I'm coming after you? Look, I don't like his name, the God of War or whatever. But here's the thing. Prince. He's the Prince of War.

Dude, he clearly has an aptitude for the game and clearly likes it. And he's athletic. That alone is going to keep him at heavyweight for much longer than his critics are going to be comfortable with. People like polarizing subjects. They love our polarizing septic core right now, by the way. Did you see the video of Dan Mergliato raising the hand? No. So he had Juan and he had Greg.

And they read the thing and he raises Greg's hand and Greg does the Fortnite dance or whatever. And Dan just shakes his head and walks off. You haven't seen that? No, I haven't. There's a viral moment. In fact, to the point where Abraham Kawa, the manager of Greg Hardy, was like, Dan should never ref a fight again. I'm like, I don't know.

I didn't like the Fortnite dance either, Abraham. So I guess we'll have to see how that goes. All right, so we move along. By the way, we also have referees who have long-ass ponytails coming from their chins. Mike Beltran. Yeah, so, you know. Hey, look, they're a weird bunch, too. No one who is in MMA is not weird.

The fighters are weird. The referees are weird. The media is super weird. There's lots of weird dogs. I'm a boxing journalist. I don't know what you're talking about. All right, so Dan Hooker gets back to the winning circle. I want to go on this one first, if I may, Brian Campbell.

I'm going to start the opposite way, though. Dan Hooker beats James Vick in the first round. I want to start on this one first, if I may, Brian Campbell. I'm going to start the opposite way, though. Dan Hooker beats James Vick in the first round. I want to start with Vick. I had him in my studio in D.C. about a week ago, and he looked in good shape. He had been well-trained, but he had said something to me that really stood out. Namely, he's 32 years old, and heading into the contest before this weekend, he had a 9-1 run, and now he had lost two, but then three now. He was like, you know, all these guys are technically ahead of me

because I didn't start until I was much later. You know, a lot of these guys have been doing this since X years or Y years. I don't know exactly when Dan Hooker got his start in martial arts, but suffice to say the point about Vic for himself was true. He's like, because he was saying, I have to train two, three times a day. I'm like, how do you do that at 32? He's like, I don't have a choice. I have this much time to catch up, and and I got to do everything possible to get ahead.

Okay, fair enough. But to me, that wasn't a choice about skill. Yes, Dan Hooker is better on the feet. No question. But that was knowable going in, which is to say, on the feet, you'd be like, okay, it's Dan Hooker's fight. On the ground, you would think that would be James Vick's fight. Now, how you get Dan Hooker to the floor, okay, I'm not saying it's the easiest task in the world, but I would think that James would be up to it. Now he didn't make that choice. He paid for it. It's three losses in a row. I really wonder what they're going to do with him, because I still think very highly, like, he lost to Paul Felder, but he had punctured his lung, and that was a close fight for the most of its way. The only two fighters he really got brutalized by in the UFC, I believe, would be this one.

Stevens. And then, no, no, would be James. I'm sorry. James. No, sorry. Gaethje. Gaethje. The Gaethje fight, and then this one.

I was thinking Jeremy Stevens. So you're losing to two people who are pretty upper echelons. It's not the end of the world, but nevertheless, three losses in a row. If this was 10 years ago, you'd be on the chopping block. I don't think they're necessarily going to do that. But this is going to hurt his income. This is bad. This is a setback for his stock.

He was rising all the way through the ranks. It's a major, major setback. And it's one that, to me, was avoided. When I look at MMA, Brian, I see so many fighters, good fighters, great fighters. And I'm nobody's coach it just seems to me they don't fight up to their potential look at Juan Adams over the weekend you're going to tell me that's the best of Juan Adams?

of course it's not, you're going to tell me that was the best of James Vick? of course it's not and it keeps happening over and over I don't really have a good explanation for it but James Vick might find himself in Bellator or one but certainly back to the chopping block here I should say the drawing board, rather, here in the USU's lightweight division.

What I said last week, what I loved about this fight, is that there almost was a loser leaves town element, both coming off of big losses, too, obviously, for Vick, where it's sort of like, we're going to find out who's made for title contention and just had a hiccup and they adjusted, and who is more of a pretender than a true title contender. Unfortunately for James Vick, he used that term,

he told you he was technically behind all these guys. Yeah. Yeah. He's technically behind. He has a fatal technical flaw. He doesn't move his head enough or keep his hands up enough. And it's now being exposed the higher he's stepping up in level against the elite strikers.

They sort of nailed one thing on the broadcast. He's great when he's getting off first. He's got the boxing background. And he's got big power. He's got big power. He's got that height advantage. He's got some boxing background. And he's got big power. He's got big power. He's got that height advantage. He's got some striking things that are sexy and valuable in this space. But he's also in, again, a historically deep division where it's all killer and no filler.

And this is a very tough opponent in Hooker who I do think is destined to actually crack the upper echelon. He's in a great camp. He's got, you know, iron sharpens iron, all that good stuff there. But Vick is fatally flawed in that one thing. And if he can't figure out how to grow and adjust. You think he'll fix it? I mean, it's happened before. I accidentally said Jeremy Stevens before.

Here's a guy who was sort of a rugged brawler and had that window where he looked like a real title contender because he fixed some things and polished it off. This is now a giant wake-up call to Vic that when you're on this level, there are no mistakes. Right. And also, it's easy for me to be like, you should take it to the ground. Taking it to the ground is not easy. Getting into range with Dan Hooker, who's got brilliant knees, it's not easy. None of those things are easy. But as long as that fight was on the feet, you just felt like the train was going to

arrive. He got hit early and often in that fight. And he's a good guy and he's a good fighter. I think he can return, but he's got some tough choices to make about what the best place. By the way, maybe you just decide, I want to go to one and compete there and make some more money, and I don't have to fight the crazy super elite guys of the world, or you can go to Bellator and fight still pretty elite guys, but he'd be a huge addition to their roster.

I don't think he's on the end of his contract. I don't think he's. I mean, look, you've got to go back down and beat the guys you're supposed to beat now, but you're going to have to show us some more. Some people criticized Gadelha for wanting it. Claudia Gadelha for getting to a certain point in her career where she's like, I got to evolve and become a complete mixed martial artist. And that takes time.

But you need a wake-up call a lot of times to do that. You hit a certain plateau. He's hit that plateau. I don't want you to roll on before we say how good Dan Hooker looked, though. I mean, is this the biggest win by a Hooker since Heidi Fleiss became a crossover celebrity? I like your super 80s, 90s dated references. I'll say this for hooker. I was really, and I know his corner man, Eugene Behrman, I have total and profound respect for Eugene Behrman. I really, here's what I've

noticed in corner stoppages, going back to the Edson Barboza and hooker fight, you'll get good, I mean, elite coaches, and they still, I don't think we have as a community figured out how to stop fights in MMA as a corner when to intervene on the side of mercy and health. I think even the very best ones, the Jacksons, the Bearmans, the Gibsons, they still don't know. And if you talk to them privately, they'll say there's a couple of fights on their records in which they would have called for their fighter a little bit earlier. But in MMA, it's so really difficult. Like the Tiago Santos one. I actually, as a corner man, I wouldn't have been mad if they stopped that one.

But Tiago Santos, 35, is he ever going to get a shot at the belt again? That's a more calculated call. But you mentioned Raquel Pennington saying, I quit forcing her back out there. She gets smashed. Then she goes back and loses her remainder enemy. She comes back in this one and gets the split decision, only pointing out there's lasting consequences to these things all the time. However, in the case of Dan Hooker, he fought in December against Barboza.

Took all that time off. He came back looking ready to rock, dialed in. That was like, all right, Dan is back, ladies and gentlemen, and you can pair him up with anybody in that division in the top ten. Now, the very, very top of that is all just this huge bundle of mess, but everything below it, dude, I'm all in. Book whoever you want there. Make it happen. Dan Hooker is all action all the time and only getting better. He looks for real. He looks for real. It looks like you can see that technical strength behind it, and I think he had that heart test against Barbosa. It was a

fight. He was outgunned. He tried to gut it out. That fight probably should have been stopped. But I think that's something he's going to grow from and be stronger. All right. So let's go to you on this one, my friend. Welcome back. How was Vegas? How many ratchet bachelorette parties did you see? Yeah.

Trying to get through where I need to go in Vegas in 109-degree heat in front of all these. Did you walk to the MGM? I did a lot of walking. You cut through the hotels. You get that. You do the land bridge thing. Yeah, you do that whole ride. Look, I don't want to sit here and rip Las Vegas' food game again, although I will

at any point, or their clientele, or the aura in the city. But when you're there, a total of 15 days in one month for UFC 239 and this, yeah. First world problems indeed. I'd rather just die than do that. I would honestly, if I had to do that for Well, I'd rather just die than do that. I would honestly, if I had to do that for work, I'd be like, I'm sorry, I quit this job.

I'm not going to do this anymore. All right, so let's get to it. Pac Thurman. I feel like I had MMA fans reach out to me, Brian, being like, well, I wasn't going to watch that fight. But you and Brian on Morning Combat, you guys were sicing that fight, so I wanted to see it. And then they were like, you know what? It paid off. It was a great fight.

Let's start first with the controversy in the room. You scored it for Thurman. 114-113. 114-113. You took a hellacious beating. I think I had it 115-112 for Pacquiao. Maybe 116-111, something like that. 1512, by the way, because of the point deduction for the

knockdown, is seven rounds to five for Pacquiao. Fair enough. I had it for Pacquiao. You scored it for Thurman. Yes. Tell me why you scored it for Thurman and what you have to say to the people abusing you online. I mean, look, people of the online world, before you take a swing, it's like, I wonder, what are we fighting for here? Was this fight, let's play true or false. Luke, I'll use you as the average donk in this case.

True or false, was this fight a borderline instant classic in terms of fun, drama, and competition? True. And what does an instant classic normally tell you? That it was a close fight, correct? True. In the second half, after a great start, did Manny Pacquiao at 40 slow down just a bit, allowing Thurman to rally? True. Okay, did all three judges in the end score this fight seven rounds to five in either

direction? False. No, that's actually true. Oh, sorry, sorry, in either direction. In either direction. So that tells you that we're pretty close right here. I scored it seven rounds to five. Although, saying I scored it like a Nevada judge, that is not the best evidence you've

got to write. It's all these years into this in my career that people still don't understand what round by round scoring is. Okay, so can we put that out there? I didn't watch this fight and then go after 12 rounds, who do you think won this fight? Oh, it was Thurman. No, Pacquiao won the night. He won the moral story, whatever Max Kellerman deemed that quote that time.

He landed the bigger shots. He had the bigger moments. He was the winner if you were doing it under pride rules. We don't do it under pride rules. So even though Pacquiao knocked him down in round one, and can I teach people online, you do only get one extra point for a knockdown. You don't get 17. People that watch Wilder, Fury, and didn't score it, by the way, bloodied Thurman's nose

in round five, hurt him with a vicious body shot in round 10. But guys, that's still three rounds. Over a 12-round fight, I thought in that second half Thurman made a big rally. I thought he was landing the bigger punches. I thought there were at least three rounds in which Thurman owned the first two plus minutes of it. And then Pacquiao had big moments late. And then you're sort of in that divide, which happens often in a great fight. A lot of times it's the boxer against the puncher. And you're like, did I like the guy who controlled the round for two minutes? Or do I like the guy that landed the one or two big shots? This was a close-ass fight that when I did the math in the end, it was 7-5 Thurman, and that's fine. CompuBox statistics don't tell you who won a fight, but they can help an argument.

And in this case, Thurman outlanded Pacquiao over 12 rounds, connected on a higher percentage, landed more power punches, and in eight of the 12 rounds, landed more punches. Am I trying to argue and say Thurman won? No. Am I trying to argue against everyone on Twitter who's telling me to kill myself? This is not BC Ross or adolescent Campbell over here. Adelaide, sorry. You know what this actually was?

This was a close, great fight. All right. Let's start with Thurman, the gentleman who you think won but who lost ultimately. By the way, this is one of those fights, This is the reason why the round-for-by-round scoring is just perpetually confusing to people. Because if you did watch that fight as a whole, you'd be like, oh, right, Pacquiao won that one. Hurt him with the body shot. He had him sort of hunched over. Caught him with the right over the top, fading back in the first.

You'd be like, oh, right, this is the guy. And the problem is, by the way, that round, you can't even score at 10-8 because Thurman rallied back at the end. Of course. So it's the same score as a close round. It's the same problem at MMA to a degree. You should have a scoring criteria that more naturally coheres with what you're obviously seeing. In any event, Thurman. I feel like he split the difference on us here.

And here's what I mean. We were like, is he going to be the Keith Thurman of old? Or is he the Keith Thurman of new who's not as good? Blah, blah, blah. And my thought was, okay, for now, and maybe he's because he wanted two to three tune-up fights. So this was only the second since coming back from the long layoff. But my thought was, he's definitely not the Keith Thurman of old. Let's say the one who beat Sean Porter.

But pretty dang good. And in the right matchup, it'll be action-packed. He promotes well for the most part. He might get a boost from the Manny Pacquiao halo, so to speak, In the right matchup, it'll be action-packed. He promotes well, for the most part. He might get a boost from the Manny Pacquiao halo, so to speak, even though he came out on the losing side of things a little bit. And he can still beat very good welterweights. Now, how good? Crawford or a Spence type? No, I don't think that that's probably not.

But can he beat really good fighters and give you bang for your buck? Yes, yes, I think he can. He showed tremendous... But can he beat really good fighters and give you bang for your buck? Yes. Yes, I think he can. He showed tremendous. So what are you saying? Was he the old, the newer, or a hybrid is where you're going? He wasn't as good as his upper bound limit, and he wasn't as bad as we had feared. I want to argue that.

Give me a second. He wasn't as bad as we had feared. This was clearly an improvement over the Jose Cito Lopez fight, in my judgment. He's a little bit more hittable than he used to be, although he was always a little bit hittable. But now he's a little bit more hurtable, I suppose. He doesn't quite absorb damage the same way. But, dude, for him to rally back the way he did, he began to split Pacquiao's timing late in that eighth, ninth round and showed heart all the way to the final bell.

People don't think Pacquiao walked through hellacious blows. Some of the hardest punches he's taken in a long-ass time. They're crazy. In fact, Thurman's mechanics late were not that great because he was swinging so wide, but he was landing. Dude, he was hurting Pacquiao. So I thought, okay, he definitely has not reached all the way back into his bag of tricks. But yo, he's far enough back where I take him seriously as a threat in that division.

On the right night, you never know who he could beat. And do I know when I put down my money for Keith Thurman, that provided he's the right opponent, of course, I'm going to get my money's worth 100%. So in many ways, he came out of this looking pretty good. I think he came out of this looking great. Yeah, you thought he won. Let's take that out. If my scorecard in the end is an outlier, that's fine. Pacquiao won this fight.

He won the night. We're going to leave it at that. Under those grounds, it takes sometimes a loss to really make somebody appreciate you. Do you remember Evander Holyfield's entire early run as heavyweight champion? Everyone still said, you're a blown-up cruiserweight and you didn't beat Tyson. It was until he lost to Riddick Bowe and showed incredible heart in their first fight and got up off the canvas

where people were like, oh my god, Evander Holyfield's great. I think this was one of those style of moral victories. You said maybe he split the difference? No. This is the best performance of Keith Thurman's damn career. No, I'm not. So hear me out. What we said when we analyzed this fight is there's major questions both are facing.

Pack at 40, can he do this against a prime unbeaten champion who can punch? Thurman, does he have a backbone anymore? Is he chinny? Is he all these things? So how we handicapped this fight was based upon sort of negative characteristics that we thought we were going to implement in. The reason why this fight was so great, the reason why it was high-speed chess over 12 rounds,

looked a lot like De La Hoya-Mosley won from 2000, one of my favorite under-the-radar sleepy great fights, is because both threw their questions out the window and brought the very best of themselves and were willing to duel. On the pay-per-view level, we're coming off the Mayweather era where guys don't let their hands go in the elite pay-per-view level, we're coming off the Mayweather era, where guys don't let their hands go in the elite pay-per-view level. Triple G, Canelo, outliers, most of the time it's more of a safe defensive battle. They went after it. What did I say Keith Thurman had to do in this fight to really prove

that he's back in to win? If you try to box Pacquiao for 12 rounds, he's going to lose. He has to be the puncher, he has to be the bigger man, and he has to go after it. The reason he won the rounds late was because he actually started boxing with Pacquiao. It's actually not the way he won the fight. The rounds he won were the ones where he stuck and moved, not where he stood his ground. Okay, I'm not saying you have to be a one-dimensional walk-em-down and that's the only way to do

that, but the one thing the punch sets did say, Manny outjabbed him like 82 to 11, something ridiculous like that. Because Keith Thurman did not go in there with the mindset that I'm going to outbox him. He went in there with the mindset that I'm going to hurt him and I'm going to finish him. And he got off the canvas to do that. And I saw the adjustments he was making. Around round four, he was losing that fight badly. He made some key adjustments to get back into that fight.

He kept up a hellacious pace trying to drag Manny Pacquiao into deep waters and get tired. And it never happened. So on my podcast after the fight on CBS Sports, we're sort of breaking down, what did Thurman do wrong in the end? And you know what my answer was? He fought 40-year-old great Manny Pacquiao. That's the only thing that happened. Pete Thurman, I don't think, lost this fight.

I think he showed you the top end of what he's capable of. Maybe it can't be to Spencer Crawford, although I'm sure he can be competitive in there. Maybe we found out how great he can be. He was pretty damn great on Saturday night. But as we know, Pacquiao won and stole that night because he was even greater. He was so much better than the Jeff Horn fight, so much better than some of the questions we even had when he's punching Adrian Bruner and Adrian Bruner's not punching back. Pacquiao was willing to eat everything and come back. And they both dug to a deeper gear. Keith Thurman, I hope now,

finally gets any kind of criticism out the window. I've called him part-time, some of the time, all the time. He's one time and he brought it. Pacquiao was just better. I think it's a charitable view, but nevertheless, let's talk about Pacquiao. So to me, the people who are willfully just naive, like, oh, how does Pacquiao maintain this ability at 40? He must get a great night's sleep and eat asparagus. Like, yeah, that's the reason. But okay. What are you saying here, Luke? Where are we going? What I'm saying is in any kind of athletic contest, even under strict testing for drugs,

that's not a great way to test it, but when it's very lax, I don't know what the truth is, but you're not entitled to the benefit of the doubt, especially as you age. Now, that being said, he did win. What's his legacy? 40 years of age, he becomes the fifth oldest boxing champion.

The oldest welterweight champion. Oldest welterweight. He is still the only guy through eight weight classes. By the way, it doesn't look like he's done at all. They're talking about fights maybe with Spence. I don't think they get the Crawford one done, but okay. It was a possibility, I suppose. Now, some of the folks at ESPN, I believe Steve Kim and Dan Rayfield, were like, oh, yeah, Danny Garcia should be next.

I don't really agree. So two questions. I'm going to let you get it. Well, let me get to this one first. Why not Floyd and Manny too? Now, here's the thing. Do I really want to see that fight? The first one kind of sucked, and I was there all week for that.

The buildup was great. The fight itself kind of sucked. But it would do well. Manny looks rejuvenated to a degree. He's hitting hard. He had good output. And Floyd was there ringside looking on.

Do I really believe that if they made that rematch, people wouldn't watch? If you had made it after the Jeff Horn, people might have checked out, but even then they would have bought it. After Matisse, no one really saw it. And then after Broner, getting warmer. Dude, after this, they absolutely would buy that.

There is no doubt in my mind. How much it would do, we can debate. That would arguably still be the biggest pay-per-view of the year. It would potentially be one of the biggest pay-per-views of all time. If they had done it, like you mentioned, in that area where he had lost to Horn and Mayweather was inactive save for the McGregor fight, you're always looking at the idea of, well, the first

one did 4.6 million. If any form of a rematch did half of that, you're still talking about the fourth biggest fight in history, right? Even if it was an old guy money grab and that's all it was, Pacquiao's performance brought it back to being a fight that would truly matter again. Because you're not, look, part of boxing promotion is lying. It's not lying.

It's part, you know, it's fudging things. It's removing the wrinkles. It's basically like a Playboy spread in a lot of ways, right? You know, I mean, you can dip your hand in that. The whole point here is, though, you have nothing to hide, fake, or show here. Just show the footage here of Thurman Pacquiao and you'll learn that. So you mentioned Pacquiao's legacy, and that was one of the things I said coming in. The eight-division champion thing, I mean, he accomplished that in, like, 2010, basically.

And maybe his second biggest thing in his one-day boxing obituary will be lost to Floyd Mayweather in the biggest fight of the modern era. It's interesting what this win, the win over Thurman, does. It doesn't take Manny from, let's say, you had him 19th best fighter ever and you move him down to 6th. It's not anything like that. But it's adding more in the idea of by adding another chapter to his career late. And now he's got the longevity and he's got

the part of his legacy where he's always able to kind of reinvent himself. Is he, in the long range, kind of pushing Floyd? That was Floyd's era. Floyd beat Manny head-to-head. Shoulder injury or not, not going down that road. So let me ask you about your position.

Is the position you're adopting, and it may be right or it may be wrong, Floyd had 50-0. Pacquiao's at, what, like 70-plus pro fights? Pacquiao's like 60-7 at this point. So pretty close to 70 pro fights. So is your argument that enough more wins overcomes the losses while Floyd still had none? Well, it's hard to compare that directly because Pacquiao had two losses very early in his career,

weight-trained, probably like 19 years old. And he took more chances than Floyd, a lot more chances, rose up in weight. But the idea was when Floyd beat him, there was no longer a debate, right? Floyd is the fighter of this era, and historically he's going to be considered a little bit better.

But with Floyd having stepped away, man, he's going to beat a Keith Thurman. And if he doesn't fight Floyd next and he fights another top-end welterweight, and let's say he wins that, we're almost to the idea historically where, okay, Floyd's 50-0 is pretty damn bright, and he did beat Manny, but on a pound-for-pound level all the time. Are we sleeping on the fact that Manny did rise up eight weight classes to do this, and at 40 years old, he's still beating elite guys.

He's not beating Andre Berto, Conor McGregor, and Tenshin Nasakawa. He's beating unbeaten Keith Thurman. So if you ran that back under the guise of what I just said, where, okay, the first fight didn't deliver. Delivered money, didn't deliver action, shoulder injury or not for Floyd. And for Manny, Floyd took him out of that and dissected him and won it. But is Manny better at 40 and Floyd at 42 than they were at 36 and 38? That's an interesting proposition.

You think Floyd beats Thurman? I don't know. I don't know exactly where Floyd is at because of inactivity. Not upper limit Floyd. Upper limit Floyd beats Thurman. But Floyd today. That's the whole question of why this rematch would be interesting. If Manny was washed right now, it wouldn't be that interesting.

We'd still watch it. We'd still pay for it. Now that Manny just showed you that he's one of the best welterweights on the planet. Manny just showed you he might be the second or third best. Because we don't know if he would beat Spencer or Crawford. We predicted that the other guys would win because they're younger and they're complete. But I really think in this one you can sell the whole idea of the legacy is back. Whose era is it is back on the line.

Who's better historically if these two are the rivals of this era? I think you can put that back into play. And, of course, you can sell the, well, Manny was injured the first time around. He didn't take enough chances. Manny has his swagger back, okay? And this is important. After he got knocked out by Marquez in 2012, the fights that followed, he didn't take

chances. The decision wins over Brandon Rios, those type of fights. He was a lot more safe, used his speed, stayed on the outside, darted in and out. You saw him take big shots from Keith Thurman. Yeah, whenever he gets into a brawl and then he bangs his gloves together, that's when you know he's like a little bit biting down on the

mouthpiece kind of fight style. I'll tell you this. The shoulder may have been injured. He did have surgery after. I'm more of the subscription that Manny didn't go for it late against Floyd because he thought he might get stopped. Because Floyd was so accurate with those right hands at key points that he needed to that Floyd disciplined him.

I wonder in a rematch. Are you selling a Floyd-Manny two fight based on its boxing value? That's the thing. I'm always going to be able to sell you fights on the gas station hot dog value. We got to try it. This one's easy in that regard. This one actually might be a real fight again with real stakes, including one of the active welterweight titles. It just sounds so implausible given that they're 40 and 42.

But you might be right, actually. This might be the time where they begin to even out a little bit. The big thing that people are going to go to their grave about is, okay, we saw Manny and Floyd, but if you're a Manny guy, and I'm not a Manny guy, but if you're like a Manny guy, you're saying, too bad they didn't fight in 2010 or 2011. Manny was so explosive. He could have done something.

He was beating the Hattons and the De La Hoyas. Beating them with one punch. But by the time they got to 2015, Floyd still had that gap. Floyd, as an age 30, late 30s fighter was incredible. I wonder if that gap is closing. All right. Be kind of interesting to note. So then we now look ahead, Brian Campbell.

This upcoming weekend, UFC 240 is going to happen. It will be a lot of things. Although the card itself, not the greatest. Not deep at all. But the main event, Max Holloway taking on Frankie Edgar. I spoke to Max this week. Have you talked to either of the main event competitors yet? Yeah, I spoke to Max last week and

appeared to be in pretty good spirits about the whole thing. I asked him about the damage he took against Poirier because if you go back to that night in Atlanta, it was Poirier, Holloway, Adesanya, Gastelum. Poirier arguably took more damage than the rest of them, although maybe not so much as Adesanya

and Gastelum, but still comparable amounts. He's the first one back. It's kind of interesting. Poirier arguably took more damage than the rest of them, although maybe not so much as Adesanya and Gaslam, but still, comparable amounts. He's the first one back. It's kind of interesting. I mean, Holloway. Holloway is the first one back. And he's the first one back, and he's down now a weight class that he was in that 155 amount. And I was like, aren't you going to sell me on the concern there?

And he just claims that he has really good recovery. Well, we know him enough to know that there's zero concern in any situation. Okay, fair enough. But the question of what that will mean competitively. Bit of a different one. I want to start here with this one. I was like, what is really the value in an Edgar win? Because Edgar, the controversy here, as you well know,

was why is Edgar getting this title shot when meritocratically, it's probably not the guy who should get it. And the answer was, hey, man, Edgar's 37. He's got some name value. He's available. There's lots of reasons why people get picked to get in title fights in MMA or boxing, one of which is who's around, who has a name. He has both of those. So they put him in there. The value, insofar as I can tell, is Max Holloway is looking to build a resume. And they all are, but he's really looking to say, not super manicured,

but who are the biggest fish I can fry each time? The Ortega fight was valuable not because he had a super name value, but because he was super hot as a prospect, and he got shut out in the way that he did. It really told us a lot. Beating Jose Aldo back-to-back, stopping him both times in the fourth minute of the third round told us a lot. I don't think beating Edgar at this stage, while still a very capable talent,

and by the way, you never know. Edgar has surprised us. Everyone from New Jersey is watching and being like, you're counting Edgar out. Okay, but the reality is this is not 30-year-old Edgar. This is 37. Still, he could win. You never know.

But can we cut to the chase of what this fight really is? Can we slice it right down the middle? It's about Max Holloway adding a name to his resume that truly would be the scalp of all scalps. It has nothing to do with that. The Aldo scalp is valuable. This scalp is him being able to cobble together the kind of thing to say,

look at the who's who on here. That's creative. You should be writing the program for COC. Who was the top for the win if they gave him Josh Emmett? If they gave him, he already lost, but Mirsad Bekti. Do you know why they're not giving him Josh Emmett? Because it wouldn't sell. Right.

And they're giving you a thin card that they need two names that you know on top to sell. You mean to tell me that if this fight was over and he beat Josh Emmett the same way and he beat Frankie Edgar the same way, I'm not disputing that the sales will be different. You mean to tell me that the narrative after the fight will be the same? That is complete nonsense. It would absolutely be different. However much you don't buy into it, we know our media brethren, they're mostly donks, they're nice

guys too as well. They're going to tell the world this was beating a featherweight legend. A centerpiece. Okay, I'm not saying that Edgar's not an MMA legend. I'm not saying that people will say that afterwards and it's wrong. It's not. But that's not what this fight is.

This is a get well fight for Max Holloway. It is. And there are no get well fights in the UFC and there certainly aren't any on the title level. But you and I have had this debate when this fight first came out. That is a jaundiced view of the world. And this is a get well fight because the UFC allowed Max to take a chance that

to be honest with you, wasn't necessary. That lightweight division is so stinking deep, and they took that chance for marketing purposes. Maybe they thought he'd be healthier at that weight. We learned at least against an elite puncher like Poirier that Max may not have the firepower to beat those very elites. I know he still says he wants another chance.

If he trained his body and moved up and did it the right way, maybe. We'll see. What we learned from this is UFC looked at the landscape and said, what's kind of a soft-ish touch, but one that we can still spin, one that will move tickets. That's probably going to be a thin card. We're going to Edmonton. We're not rolling out our own red carpet here. This is an in-between pay-per-view, a classic in-between pay-per-view. I think UFC found out in that Poirier fight that the max 155 experiment

may not be the best move. So let's polish him up at 45 again. Okay, it's not that I'm disputing those things as true. I just don't think those things are principally what this is ultimately about. Yes, there's availability here, and Max was like, I just told the UFC I wanted to fight in the summer, and they put me here. So he wants to stay in rotation. They're trying to find the names in rotation. But I guess I'm just trying to sort of understand. You fundamentally don't believe that this qualitatively improves his resume. Here's what I mean. You get to a

certain point in your career where you lose, lose, lose, lose, lose. Let's use an extreme example like BJ Penn. Beating BJ Penn no longer has the same value. I think that's true. But even Ryan Hall got some value out of that. Now, he submitted him, which was the twist there. But it takes a long time for you to lose such that the value in beating you has been diminished. I know what you're saying. He is coming off of a win. If you beat Frankie Edgar now, whether he deserved a title shot or not, it qualitatively improves his resume. You're asking me, does it do nothing to improve? Of course, because Frankie Edgar's not done.

He's also not necessarily deserving of the title shot. So he's sort of in the middle. It's an active enough name where it's a legendary name. Of course it improves that. I'm just saying that's not the story here. That's not the narrative here. This is about Max getting his mojo back. This is about Max reestablishing himself.

Okay, that loss happened. I took a chance. That's over with. Let's get back down to business at 45. I know I got some names that are kind of figuring it out who's next. In the meantime, let's sell a few tickets with Frankie. I'll look great doing it. I think the one thing we're not talking about here is what do we do with Frankie's legacy if he wins this fight?

Oh, I would say it transforms it. It transforms it by a lot. Rook is right because he beat the guy that beat him. Aldo beat him twice. Second time UFC 200 quite badly. Edgar stopped him. Sorry, what am I saying? Holloway stopped him twice. Second time UFC 200, quite badly. Edgar stopped him. Sorry, what am I saying? Holloway stopped him twice and then beat Ortega, the other guy that stopped Frankie Edgar.

So to go back and beat that dude, it would show you that, number one, we already know this, but MMA math is garbage. But also that Frankie Edgar, like we always kind of knew, A, I would be guilty in selling him short. And also, on the right night, even at 37 years old, he's still capable enough of doing great things. It would also tell me, though, that Max came back too quickly. I still have concerns. But you agree there's a difference between being a legend, which Frankie is now, and an all-time great, which I think if Frankie became a two-division champion and beat a prime Max Holloway, or a somewhat prime, then you're kind of an all-time great now by default, right?

Look, if Holly Holm had beaten Duran to me, she would have been a two-division champion, too, and didn't deserve that shot. So there are sort of qualifiers, but... Let's see, if it's a lucky shot, no. If he goes in there and just audits him, then yeah, you'd have to have that conversation. Alright, before we wrap things up here on Morning Combat, Episode 3,

Brian Campbell, any odds and ends from the weekend? Anything else you saw? Yes. UFC side, boxing side, worth a quick mention? From boxing side, let's talk about unbeaten lightweight prospect Teofimo Lopez Jr. Are you woke to this guy? Yes, I am. Top rank on ESPN.

He has some swag. Oh, he's got big-time swag. He's got sort of a John Jones, I'm sorry, Roy Jones ability. Excuse me, Roy Jones ability in terms of he can get these freakish, spectacular knockouts by leaping in from the right angle. He's a swag. His dad and his trainer in the corner is talking about big things. So he had a title eliminator on Friday night

that would have made him the mandatory for Richard Kami for one of the lightweight belts. And had he won that fight, they were talking about it, Vasily Lomachenko versus 19-year-old Teofimo Lopez early next year for all four lightweight belts. So we're talking about a monster jump, considering he says, I can only make 135 for a little bit more. My body's growing.

He went out there on Friday night, kind of pitched a, kind of dropped an egg. Tried 12 rounds for spectacular knockout, was unable to get it, and it sort of brought you back down to earth. He wins a decision, basically 10 rounds to two, 10 rounds to two, and nine rounds to

three in a fight that was basically a draw or a pick-em, so he got the good end of that one, but we're slowing our roll in the moment from the idea of this 19-year-old was almost on like a Fernando Vargas plane. Remember at age 19 and 20, he's fighting De La Hoya, he's fighting Trinidad, and he got stopped by both. I think you're slowing your roll now with the idea of Lomachenko, Teofimo, but he's got swagger. It's all about the takeover.

We'll see if he can bounce back. I mean, he's going to still getachenko-Teofimo, but he's got swagger. It's all about the takeover. We'll see if he can bounce back. I mean, he's going to still get the title shot against Kami, but he's got to go in there looking to box if I can't slug and not spend 12 rounds trying to get the highlight knockout. Right, interesting. So I'm going to go the other way. We mentioned her before in the broadcast, Raquel Payton, getting an absolutely critical win.

Remember, she had time off before the fight with Amanda Nunes where she had this terrible accident. It reminded me, no one ever made this comparison that I'm aware of, or maybe someone did and I just missed it, in which case I apologize. It reminded me of Frank Mir. Frank Mir had that terrible motorcycle accident. And then when he came back and he fought the Dan Christensen's of the world and whoever else, and Pepe Pano, he didn't look like himself at all. It was terrible fights. And so it was the Anthony Hardonk fight where he finally came back, and that's when he was like, this is me, this is me.

Now, she did not have quite the triumphant moment in that sense. But after losing to Amanda Nunes, then not wanting to come out for her fifth round, her corner was like, get back out there, champ, inadvisably. Then she goes against Jermaine Durand-Ami. People were saying, oh, this is her first fight since Amanda Nunes. They forgot that fight even happened. But when you think about it, you're like, wait a second.

He had a terrible accident. He lost to Amanda Nunes. Okay. And he lost to Duran-Demis, who's a good, great fighter. You come back. You get this win at UFC San Antonio. Split decision. Skin of her teeth.

Had to rally late to do it. That's exactly my point, Brian Campbell. She rallied late. She showed absolute grit and determination in that third round. This was, to me, a must-win scenario for her, and she did. And Instagram seems to say that her and Tisha Torres are on the outs. I don't know if you follow MMA dating at all. I assiduously avoid it.

There's power couples in this world. I ignore them. So the point being is, she did everything she needed to. She looked good. Barely, barely. She got it done. She got it done. I don't want to get away from San Antonio

without bringing up Gerald Harris officially, though. Is he a heavyweight title contender now? Walt Harris. I'm sorry, Walt Harris. Yes, possibly. Also, Alexander Hernandez, I did not think he won that fight. I thought that...

It was close. I thought Masa Rendubo won that fight. But Walt Harris, look, he had that journeyman era of his career where it was trade wins and losses to guys that he may or may not have heard of. Yeah, now he's putting them away. I mean, there's this word, Luke,

that the old scholars used to use, like 18th century English, evolvement. This is Walt Harris. It turns out that actually is a word, by the way. This is Walt, obviously, this is Walt Harris' evolvement period because you've got to take him seriously.

All right. Well, that is it for us. Welcome back, my friend. I will see you next Monday. Well, I might see you later on this week. Oh, and by the way, Greg Hardy licking the blood off his gloves, I could do without that, too. Yeah, look, man.

He's going to be here for a while, so you're going to have to figure out where to get used to it. I got all my hot takes out. They're all on the table. We appreciate you guys watching. As always, subscribe to the channel. Give the video a like. Share it around. Let folks know. We rely on you for word of mouth, so we appreciate you guys watching. We hope you enjoyed. By the way, people are asking, are there podcast links?

We'll put some in the description box or hit us up on Twitter. We'll give you guys everything you need because we are everywhere. We are live and in charge. So for Brian, I am Luke. Until next time, may all of your gains be loyal. We'll be right back. We'll see you next time.