MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Peireira Stops Prochazka | Aspinall KOs Pavlovich | UFC 295 Results/Reaction | Morning Kombat Ep 514

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

On Episode 514 of Morning Kombat Luke Thomas and Brian Campbell react to UFC 295. Which fight would we rather see Alex Pereira take next, Jamahal Hill or Israel Adesanya? Should the UFC give up on Jones-Miocic and make Tom Aspinall vs. Stipe Miocic or Jon Jones? Can Mackenzie Dern fix the holes in her striking game? What is the upside of Benoit Saint-Denis? The guys break it all down in episode 514. As always we close with Dm's from Donks and HYSTS. (00:12:30) - Alex Pereira  (00:53:00) - Tom Aspinall (01:19:00) - Dern's Development (01:33:00) - Benoit Saint-Denis (01:39:40) - UFC Co-Promotion (01:59:30) - Dm's from Donks (02:11:50) - HYSTS Morning Kombat is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts and wherever else you listen to podcasts.     For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit:morning kombat.store   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This is our life. This is our passion. That's the spirit we bring to this show. I'm Luke Thomas. I'm Brian Campbell. This is Morning Combat. Oh, it's the 13th of the month. Cash your checks and get up, everybody. Hi, how you doing?

It's episode whatever the fuck number here on Morning Combat combat i am merely one half of your hosting duo i join you from the capital of estados unidos right here in washington dc as always though i am joined by my editorial hetero life mate my friend and yours he is the king of connecticut in all likelihood no you know what it's not anymore now it's the other guy alex pareda but he's the honorary king of connecticut it's brian campbell hi brian campbell how are you i'm fired up luke fired the hell up uh look before we get too deep into the show i mean you know we do take some big swings in these parts luke you know what i'm saying are you um are you referring to the big old you you took your balls out last week you laid them on the table and you were like yeah well minus 450

when you have the balls to speak what you feel regardless of whether whether you feel is accurate you're gonna have a cleanup on aisle eight every once in a while. So Luke, not every day is Woodley till day, right? Not every day we can call Francis will wrestle, but I do want to tell you very quickly what I did call correctly. Okay.

That Aspinall would win due to hand speed by knockout. And that Poitons counter left hook would be the difference between him and Prohotska. But I get that. We have be the difference between him and Prochazka. But I get that we have to read the headlines first, and Luke, minus 450 is one hell of a headline after that biting that Andrade gave Old Bern. I was very surprised about this because I said this on the post-fight show on Saturday night. I didn't even really remember that you had said it, but boy, the fans did, the viewers did, the listeners did.

If my mentions were full of, dude, you got to kill Brian on Monday, what were your DMs and mentions like about that? Oh, they were great. They were mostly humorous and sloppy, but people were definitely coming for me. I see friends of the show, haters alike. But what I really got hate for, Luke,

and I did want to address this right off the top, this pay-per-view this weekend, UFC 295, was freaking fantastic from start to finish. Five KOs in the five-bout main card. And I did get a lot of people going, hey, BC, how's your sky is falling about 2023 with the UFC theory now or hey BC I thought this was an awful year hey guys just as happy as you all were that this pay-per-view was absolutely brilliant because I get to cover it for my work because I enjoyed it as a fan

uh doesn't mean there weren't other issues going on this year but if this is what we should expect for the majors for MSG for NYC this is inject me this is what we should expect for the majors for msg for nyc this is inject me this is absolutely what we needed luke true or false and i do this a lot in boxing because to be a full-time boxing fan you have to cope with a lot of absolute bullshit it's cards like this that make all those apex fight nights with all uh on wikipedia paged dana white contender series graduates worth it right it really is luke i don Dana White Contender Series graduates worth it, right? It really is, Luke.

It really is. I don't know if it makes it worth it, but it just goes to show when the UFC both flexes its muscle. They did go to New York City. They did try to bring Jon Jones. They did book some other interesting fights on this card. So I will say, like, you know, they tried to do it, at least for the main card. The whole card delivered, but the main card really delivered.

So when they flex their muscle, and listen, even the very best promoter, it's like being a surfer. You've got to catch the right wave. You can't control what wave you're going to catch. You've just got to put your best foot forward, and the best ones seem to make it work. So when they put their best foot forward and they get a little bit of luck in the air, dude, who can compete with that?

Who can compete with that? Nobody can. That's why they're the best in this space the thing is we want them to stay the best in this space and deliver stuff like that we want them out of the apex in front of live cards so you can get magic like that obviously this was msg this is a higher level but i want to say one final note we lamented a lot about the lost star power of Jones and Miocic from a crossover big event level. What it brings you the opportunity to do, though, when those fights fall apart, is bring in hungry young people looking to, you know, make early career-defining step-ups. Dude, this is what this card was all about, from BSD to Diego Lopez.

You know, I mean, all the way up to to really to pajita and in aspinall it was about people we know them as this and they just freaking leap through our screen and showed us no where i'm at i'm at another level so in that regard it was it was perfect did i have to wrestle rattle some cages to tell some truth on the way there well i did whether i did whether i had to or not i did but yeah i enjoyed it here here's what was so interesting about this we'll get the show started here in just a second i promise but i want to you know i often re-watch fights on sunday and then monday before the show you know just to get a second third fourth look whatever it is i was able to watch the whole pay-per-view

today obviously skipping past not i watched just the fights right the fight time i watched the whole thing in like 15 minutes it was great how often can you say that i watched a great five fights in about 15 20 minutes no problem i even went back and watched a couple of replays in that time dude that was great that was about that run time too i think it was like 11 20 when we only had you know we were already in the co-main event yeah i mean it was great yeah so there's a lot to get to here all right let's remind folks hey thanks for everyone who checked out their shows last week who tuned in for the post fight show on saturday i am going to have extra credit coming today so that's going to be out as well plus we're here for today's show so thank you very much thumbs up if you're watching subscribe if you haven't it's free we appreciate that when you do of course we got merch bc you

got bc's hat you got my shirt what do you got do you also have an mk shirt on you got a no no no i got a tribute to the great bray wyatt here r.i.p but i will tell you about mk merch though luke if you want me to yes please do uh we're back at it with another great gimmick right the holidays are coming you want a percentage off of our sticker price? How about 10%? How about live 10 right now? That's the code we need you to use. Morningcombat.store. Enter the code L-I-V-E 1-0. You see it there on your screen.

Tell RJ that we sent you that way. He'll hook you up very nice. 10% off everything. Luke, including that disgusting piece of clothing you're wearing across your chest. What's wrong with my shirt? I mean, it does scream some certain things luke it screams now i had a jacket on i had a jacket on unzipped in fact i had the mk bomber i do i don't wear anything but mk stuff anymore so i had my mk bomber jacket on and i took tuki to school this morning in this so that's nice i didn't even think about it yeah that's that's really the real nice message you're giving to the community there in your district but you know that maybe

that's why people are so damn pissed off in that area but uh you know that's neither here nor there you unfunny which one is it wait which part of it they were oh no i think they hated me for a few reasons luke but i'm over it already it's not like i bring it up all the time right also speaking of your nation's capital bc i pick up my uh car today how great is that right oh that is so good that is so good i had comprehensive insurance they paid for everything they rekeyed it they repainted it uh they replaced a couple stuff on the outside and on the inside my deductible for my insurance was a hundred bucks okay what do you think not bad is the grossest thing that happened in your vehicle while you were not in it luke oh i mean so so at a bare minimum unwashed people slept in it what's the movie

where all the homeless people have the orgy in the car it probably is that one i haven't seen that one but i heard somebody reference that the other day about i think it was rj dougal gangbang surely a gentleman of that moniker would know which people are gangbanging in a car and homeless yes um but uh they detailed it they cleaned it they repainted it so like i basically got a bunch of repairs done and missing a car for about a month and uh cost me about 100 bucks so there you go it all worked out in the end how nice it did all work out in the end all right i gotta zoom out a little bit there luke i was eating the screen you know that's okay that's okay let's remind folks as well you want to email the show morningcombat at gmail.com. BC and I will not see it, but the producers certainly will.

So if you're going to show your piece, understand that Mikey's going to see it. Not us. Okay. We don't want to see that. Okay. Keep your pipes to yourself, please. Thank you. And you've already seen all the socials.

Let's just set this up, BC. Before we get to topic number one, if you a long-time viewer of this show or a long-time listener you might know that bc and i and bc in particular is very good about this drinking ag1 for what would you say bc now i think almost not quite four years but a little bit under that something like that right we've been in a relationship with ag1 that's longer than most of your sexcapades luke, to be fair, right? Yeah, a homeless banging in my car probably lasted longer than that. But in all seriousness, BC, we've been drinking at AG1 nearly daily at this point. Has done so much, I can just say on a personal level, for my digestive health. You know I had complications from sometime when I got off the track,

but I have been diligent about it. And ever since I have been, problem problem-free clean bill of health from my doctor, I've been, I've been really appreciative of what it's done for me just from a health standpoint. And it's not so bad to drink. You want,

you want to find out when we started taking it, go watch MK donkey menory number three, where we were at that Bellator card until Ashley got COVID and made us all run home. But Luke, we were fat out of shape disgruntled. But what are we now since then? Not only did I replace my multivitamin every day with AG1, I love that little magic scoop of green powder that I mix with water as soon as I wake up. Why do I love it,

Luke? How about the prebiotics? How about the probiotics? How about the digestive enzymes? I can go on and on with the science if you care, but I love it for even more important reasons for my layman life. It tastes freaking great and it makes me feel fantastic. Luke, how could you top that? You can't really. And in fact, up to this point, I've even got my wife to start drinking AG1. She doesn't do it as regularly as I do, but she does. And whenever she does, she always tells me how much help, how much help she is about hitting both her macro and micronutrient needs throughout the course of the day. And of course, what the body needs in all manners for energy, for recovery, for sleep, for you just name it.

She's got it. So here's what's going to happen. AG1 is the supplement that BC and I trust to support our bodies with our needs daily. And that's why they have been a partner for us for so long. So if you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG one, try AG one and get a free one year supply of vitamin D three K two and five free AG one travel packs with your first purchase.

Go to age, excuse me, go to drink ag one.com slash morning combat. That's drink AG one, the number one.com slash morning combat that's drink ag1 the number one dot com slash morning combat check it out final question before we get into what was a tremendous pay-per-view and we're going to recap every inch of it that matters when we regularly call out the divorced females in our crowd and remind them that you know mk cares if don't nobody else care are we also talking to andrage and dern in that

regard um maybe today we are not normally but maybe today maybe today you're like i don't want megaton problems okay you know i certainly don't uh all right bc with that in mind let's get this party started shall we topic number one as we recap ufc 295 bc I'm going to ask the question in a very open-ended way because there are so many different parts of the story to get to. But let's do this. How do we explain and contextualize Alex Paredes' combat sports success? In other words, he wins on Saturday in the main event, now a two-weight world champion in UFC after being a two-weight

world champion in glory what does it mean to be a double champ in two different combat sports it means something super super friggin special and trying to identify how this happened right was there some levels of opportunistic matchmaking or let's say you know he entered the UFC as he did two years ago only two years ago this month by the way did he enter there with excuse me the idea that wow there is a storyline hook here without Asana could he get to a title shot relatively fast if things go his way things did go his way in that regard he got there fast and oh by the way he knocked out Asana out in round five of a fight that he was clearly losing on the cards and almost finished in round one.

And in some ways, the same thing happened in the timing that he moves up, right? Was it, was it luck? Was it opportunistic? Yes. John Jones was gone. This division's chaos. The openings were there. But the thing is, Luke, he stepped up into those openings and the fact that he is just the

ninth two division champion in ufc history you add that with the fact that he's a two division champion in another credible combat sport of kickboxing with glory they just entered him in the glory hall of fame and then what he did on saturday night i mean he may have just done the exact same thing to his MMA career, entering immortality by joining the two division group, really securing probably a Hall of Fame spot down the road. So how did he do it? What's the, how do we explain this?

Well, there's something super special about this guy and it comes with his warrior spirit. The way that he plays into his indigenous background in Brazil, which, you know, he dressed up for that for the weigh-in and it's scary as heck. The way he comes out with the dance, the way that he just shows himself. He lives this life 24-7 and his intangibles are so damn dialed up past 10 that it allowed a transitional period short enough for him to actually learn the ins and outs of this game and elevate his game in almost record time he has seven ufc fights three of them have been for titles and he now owns victories over current or former world champions

sean strickland by knockout is Israel Adesanya by knockout, Jan Blachowicz and now Yuri Prohotska by knockout. How do you do that? Well, you certainly have to have some already pre-built skills on the kickboxing side that do transition quickly, power, timing, technique. I mean, they're all of those things. But you got to credit that man

standing right next to him there, Glover Teixeira, who just recently was champion like a little over a year ago for when they joined forces in 2020 ahead of Poiton's not only return to MMA after having three fights, but, you know, one quick fight in a student Poiton is to be able to add these wrinkles to his game. If you watched his early fights before the Strickland one, yeah, it's not always perfect. You see big flashes. Who didn't love the flying knee knockout he delivered at MSG in his UFC debut? But, you know, he didn't come ready-made with takedown defense. He didn't come ready-made with a lot of these things. But his ability to just transition in that to cut off

almost a disgusting amount of weight into where it's unhealthy to make middleweight and persevere against Adesanya in their first MMA fight which was just ridiculous to be able to score that knockout late and just grind away as he did with those calf kicks and those short heavy shots to set Adesanya up. This guy is different. He's special. And there's a reason why not only there's only nine two division champions in the 30 year history of the UFC, but in particular, there's very few people in combat sports history. I'm talking like Henry Cejudo, maybe Brock Lesnar.

I mean, look, who can we throw in there? Maybe Ngannou if he keeps having monster success in heavyweight boxing this late but Poiton's 36 he's still getting better seemingly every day and he has accomplished things in a two year period in the UFC that 98% of fighters who step in there will never have a chance to sniff. To me, that tells me that all along, and Chuck Mendenhall was right, heading into the first Izzy versus Poetan MMA fight, Chuck Mendenhall, the greatest line on our pregame preview,

and I love to bring it up, what if we got it wrong? What if this story is really about Pereira? Luke, this story right now feels really about Pereira, and it's crazy to say that, because he just got knocked out by Adesanya this calendar year to lose his title. But he just moved up to face an absolute killer.

He relied on his core form technique, big power, amazing short left hook. And he violently finished one of the craziest, most ridiculous, violent finishers we've seen in this sport in some time. Look at what this man has done in two years. You're not going to see it done this easily for a long time. It takes a very special individual. It's about time we really, really, truly realize how difficult this was just to

begin with for him to make this transition from kickboxing to MMA and be right at the elite level just like that. But to then win titles in two divisions over two absolute killers, including one of the greatest fighters in the history of the sport in Adesanya. I don't know, Luke. I mean, all I can say is this guy has intangibles that are just through the absolute roof. And it really allowed him to be a student in a short time and pack in the knowledge to, to, to really look what I mean by packing the knowledge. He he's taking away the things that he doesn't have all the, all the negatives of his game. He's key. He's,

he's not allowing people to expose that in him. And again, I don't know how he made middleweight. It's even crazy that he won the championship there, but who he is today at 36, I don't know where his ceiling is even to the point luke where do you know how many people dm me over the weekend and say hey bc i know you're always talking about who's going to be the first three division champion we thought it could be connor we thought it might be out of sonia when he was entering that plovich fight look i don't even know if it's

realistic to say it's po it could be poet on but who else could breaks on that but who else could you say is even close right now where you're like, I could see that guy doing it. It's just another thing you can sprinkle on top to what makes what this guy has done in two freaking years insane. Insane. In fairness to another gentleman who we'll talk about later, in a world where Tom Aspinall is champion,

I don't give Poetan a great shot. I hear you. I don't think that's being unfair to Poetan. It's just that Tom Aspinall is champion, I don't give Poiton a great shot. I don't think that's being unfair to Poiton. It's just that Tom Aspinall is very special. We'll talk about him later. Still, I get your point. Who else would be a great candidate for it? I don't know. He seems about as good as it's going to get.

So I want to say a couple of things because I do think it's important to have the right context around this conversation. The achievement that he has produced is extraordinary. because I do think it's important to have the right context around this conversation. I mean, the achievement that he has produced is extraordinary. And BC, you mentioned something that is worth pointing out, which is Izzy lost to Sean Strickland. Granted, the way in which Strickland fought Izzy was very different than the way he fought Pereira,

but okay, he knocks him out. He actually knocks out or stops Izzy anyway, beats Jan Blachowicz, who Izzy couldn't beat, and then becomes the champion, which Izzy didn't do. In some ways, he keeps showing him up, right? It's like Izzy came in with this incredible kickboxing ability and beat a wide swath of the division with his skills overall, and then here comes Captain Ante up

and just kind of Ante's up the whole way through, which is kind of interesting. But what I want to say is a lot of times people say that Panetta has good stand-up or even excellent stand-up, which is true. It's not in any way false. But I really feel like that's an unhelpful way to describe it. There are plenty of guys who have good stand-up who can't do what he does. And dangerous may be a better word to describe it,

but the way I feel about Ibisi is, and especially in this fight, his stand-up is not really good or dangerous or his leg kicks are heavy. They are, one, immediately impactful, and two, they're unforgiving. Unforgiving. The ability for his stand-up and the skills he has,

which I'm going to put together both his natural physical abilities, they call them hands of stone, that's what Poetan means, allegedly, and you add in his great skill that he has developed, you just don't have much of a margin of error with him. There's just very, very little there. His ability with a single strike or a single moment in a fight to immediately turn or end the contest is amazing bc what did he land three leg kicks before prohachka was switching stance and

clearly hobbling three i mean this is what i mean he with with just a single moment in a fight everything begins to change and now guys have to go to b game game plans or c game plans this is such an important ingredient in understanding bc why he is so successful he can turn a fight off or he can turn its direction like that like that and not just with power with skill as well however we should say something to here bc i'm sorry to i just want to finish the point so i don't want to in any way undermine what he represents it's a level of kickboxing that frankly we are lucky to be able to get to watch in mma and the style translated so well from kickboxing i could go on and on about it but there is another reality here

which is how if someone asked a question how hard is it to get two titles in the UFC you're gonna say hey it's pretty difficult you got to be really really good but it also goes to show you the fact that he did it in seven fights someone else was telling me this on Twitter like he had a built-in rivalry already ahead of him that kind of fast-tracked his matchmaking and the disarray at 205 also opened up some doors that probably weren't there. I just want to point out, there are other factors that go into being a two-weight world champion, and part of it is, is how much does the UFC see you there? How much does the UFC want to push that?

How much do they offer that kind of an opportunity? So do you have to be next- level fucking talented to make good on it? 1 billion percent. And he did everything that was asked of him, but it also should be a reminder to us that there's a little bit of capriciousness with it, where if the winds are at your back, you can have so many great opportunities. If they're not, it can be harder. Last thing BC, he has gone through, here's who he's fought in the UFC. Andre Michelides, Bruno Silva, Sean Strickland, Twice Izzy, Jan, and Yuri. He's yet to face someone with dominant wrestling. He's yet to do that.

Like if Jon Jones or even DC were still at 205, I have a feeling they would probably ragdoll him. There is something to be said, not the current Jon Jones, but like the Jon Jones at his peak or something, right? There's something to be said for the state of the division that has allowed him to thread a very unusual needle. Yeah, I mean, I opened saying those exact same things, that it was the timing of the opportunism.

It took this division kind of falling apart and him walking right into it, but he had to beat Jan Blachowicz by split decision which he did brutalizing the calf kicks but you know it's like you mentioned such a key part about him is his ability to change the tone of the fight with one strike either ended or just completely kind of disable his opponent but he can never get to that point and I'm talking particularly about his first mma fight with adesanya if he doesn't have those other intangibles so damn wired up i mean first and foremost luke the amount of people that are going to be able to pull off the weight cut that he does something like what like 45 pounds and be able to go five hard rounds recovering from nearly getting knocked out

by adesanya in the first round of their first m meeting, and to be able to keep his head, his poise, his focus, and to just chip away and slowly build this spiderweb and this trap, that takes something extra, extra special. Because other people can design a game plan like that. Even fewer can execute a game plan like that. But sometimes, Luke, only a handful can execute that amid duress, amid, you know, world elite. And in this case, an all-time great in Adesanya. Not this case, this fight, but what I'm referencing here.

So, yeah, he needed timing. He needed opportunity. So did Henry Cejudo. To your point about the UFC deciding we could see you as a two-division champion. I remember specifically being like, man, I love Cejudo, but that's really early to allow him to fight Dillashaw. Or they didn't end up fighting at Bantamweight. They fought first at Flyweight. But you get my point of what.

They ended up giving him the vacant Bantamweight title shot. And, you know, for a short window, if Volkanovski was still champion at 145 and if Cejudo hadn't just lost in his comeback title bid, he might have been fighting for a third division title too. But he only would have done it even at that point with timing and opportunity because maybe it's a shorter, smaller champion. And Volkanovski and some people like me, not you, Luke, but like me, could imagine a scenario where Cejudo is competitive. Yes, it takes timing, timing opportunity the company to buy in but if you look back fight after fight and see what Poiton has actually done to each of these foes I get your point maybe not a wrestler which is why I'd love to see him against Ankaleyev eventually if he can keep this belt to really solve that side of it but Luke if his ground game

was that awful it would have been badly exposed right by now but the fact that he is so quickly adding to certain key holes in his game like takedown defense like even in that first round against Prohotska when he got taken down late he's got a forearm in his throat no panic though right and he nearly he nearly sinked in also a pretty deep guillotine on on Yuri which also shows the the evolution of his game I want to see what happens now not just three years in with Glover what does this guy look at the five-year mark with Glover now there is a a clock ticking with the fact that he's 36 but he's at light heavyweight it's a little more forgiving than the rest of the divisions not as forgiving as

heavyweight in terms of lingering late and still being a viable player. But it's weird to talk about a 36-year-old fighter just now coming into the full level of stardom and recognition and also know that he's not done yet. He's not done getting better. He's not done getting savvier. Imagine what this guy can continue to do. I said coming into this fight, the one thing we needed in this division, we don't know if we have it now, but the one thing we needed potentially in this division is like some stability, some consistency, somebody to come out

and say, look, I'm the champion. I'm going to defend it a couple of times. I'm not going to get injured by the way, and be forced to strip and be forced to vacate the title. Maybe he's that guy, Luke. We don't know. He's got a lot of potential big matchups to spin out of here. But I just can't believe the same guy that we watched debut two years ago in the UFC is already here. And when I say here, I don't mean on this platform with two titles. I mean more that his game so quickly evolved to this level where this was even possible. Because the guy we saw against Bruno Silva just didn't have the experience,

the, the, you know, the everything who, how could we have expected him to, but he still found a way to win that fight. Right? I mean,

it's like, this guy is super special in areas that immediately don't jump out at you, but yet the ones that do jump out at you, his frightening power, his demeanor, the way he carries himself. I mean, look,

am I allowed, am I about to say this? And I want to know if you agree. I don't know if there's a cooler fighter in the world right now. Like this guy's marketing attack the last like six months to a year, even with the knockout loss to Adesanya in their rematch. Dude, he's like the coolest because he represents a badass to those that only care about that. He's got this funny sense of humor along with Glover and the stone statues and all that he's got badass tattoos a badass dance on

the way in that honors his heritage yeah this guy's pretty much awesome right now I think you're right I think he's probably yeah he's up there he's up there with one of the coolest fighters alive certainly in terms of like his ability to cross cultures and languages, too. That's an interesting thought. Yeah, you might be right about that. He really has kind of earned the respect. Yeah, I think he had the respect of the fan base for some time, but he's really earned their admiration, I think, beyond that as well.

I would quibble a little bit with the ground game stuff. Definitely better since the Brunouno silva fight definitely better i mean dude glover tashara has a great ground game training with him and also i think you're right like pareda is built for combat like he has the mental kind of uh stamina as well as the focus and the predisposition to just whatever you know form of combative sports he would have picked he probably would have been good at maybe not wrestling because of his body type but you get the idea like he is built for conflict he is built for physical conflict and um you know he has definitely gotten better but if you go and watch the way in which he

got up underneath Yuri when he did get up now the way in which he got up underneath Uri when he did get up. Now, the good news is he got up. Like, that was great. Like, getting up and then, you know, I think there was like 20 seconds left in the round or something. That was great. He did have an underhook to start and then abandon it and didn't even use a frame. Just kind of put his hand on top of Uri. Like, dude, Daniel Cormier would thrash you for that.

He would thrash you for that. Like, he would absolutely throw you by, pick you you up and then slam you right back on your back so like you know we have to have some understanding about what the nature is of what he's up against nevertheless nevertheless I think the point you raise at 36 for this division his striking is so fucking formidable I don't know who in that division would catch him we'll talk about that in a second but if he can keep working on the other pieces of his game and remember bc he doesn't really have to attack with his ground game he just has to survive and defend and he's obviously gotten much much better at that dude he's already won a title with what he has i mean just noodle that like it's very to me his ground game is still very green and he won a title with it imagine how good he's

going to be when he gets his ground game to be like decent or even good he'll be unstoppable well if they unless the clock runs out on them but yeah i mean i have yes when he put that choke on yuri and they were debating on on on the broadcast how deep it was and eventually fell apart but it was like that was like a light bulb like oh what if he can start adding, adding viable submission attacks in the midst of it? I mean, it's just, it's wild, Luke. Remember, it's something Izzy hasn't really done, right? We've talked about that.

Like what could he have done different in the Sean Strickland fight? One thing I was like, he just kept playing the same standup game over and over. He didn't have another gear to go to. If Poiton can start developing other gears, because guys either want to be all the way out or all the way in with him and he starts finding space there dude he's going to tear people to pieces now let me ask this question someone asked me this over the weekend

and I was like it sounds crazy to even contemplate it but we have to contemplate it does he belong in the UFC hall of fame yeah Yeah. I say outright, no matter what, if he never fought again under the very liberal rule set the UFC has, he obviously fits it. But I think even overall, if the UFC Hall of Fame, as we always say, was using the same stringent standards of the Major League Baseball or the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio, he'd get in too because there's nine people that have done this, that have won titles in two divisions.

And like I said, if he, you know, decides to retire tomorrow, look at the names in a succession that he's defeated. Yeah, Luke, this doesn't happen. This doesn't happen unless you're, you know, you can only be lucky for so long. This doesn't happen unless you're also, you know, also incredible and also lucky in the timing and everything we got into. Let's not forget one part also about what the intangibles that make him great. Remember that stare down him and Jan had, I'm sorry, not Jan, Yuri and Poiton had on Saturday at the start of the intros that led all the way to the start of the fight. I mean, that's sort of like Yuri's bag.

He does the whole samurai thing but that's who poetan is at the same time like it like i don't know there's something about that that scares me and excites me at the same time not necessarily in a rut in an erotic way luke but more in like uh like uh i'm equally scared and i want to be this man but i know i can't because i'm not i don't have the same blood type as him because he has this blood type that's called fucking badass luke that's what that's staring out they had right right before the you know they even do even when they were opposite sides of the cage but right before they're receiving their instructions insane intensity um i want to talk about what could be next for Poetan. Then we'll circle back to Yuri for just a second. But with Poetan, so here's what kind of surprised me a little bit.

Maybe it shouldn't have. I don't know. I guess I just wasn't expecting it. He wins. They put the microphone in his face. I saw a translated video of what he said. And what he said was he referenced an old interview from, I think, roughly 2020. Yes.

Where Izzy had said, in talking about Pineda, hey, this guy is going to be forgotten. He's going to be on some bar talking about who he was at some point. I fought that guy, but he's going to be... The point being was Izzy was going to be up here and Poetan was going to be down there when all the dust settled. And it really hasn't gone that way. In fact, he kind of joked about it and said, I want to fight the guy who got me out of the bar i want to fight izzy a fourth time and then his first english words were izzy what was it uh come to daddy or who's your daddy you're gonna see it and have you

seen this shit but it's one of the coldest call outs of all time it is it is it's it's very daddy yeah there's no denying it was great uh the translator didn't you know quite get the spirit of it when i read the transcript but But okay, question is this, BC. Now, my personal view is when Jamal Hill is ready, there should be no obstruction. It doesn't matter who the champ is, Jamal Hill versus that guy. But we don't exactly know when that's going to happen. So what's a better fight? Poetan, Izzy, five or or three depending how you want to count it

or Poetan versus Jamal Hill and just waiting for him to return what do we do with him it says Pereira Izzy four in our rundown Luke so depending on the metrics you're using this could be there it would be the third MMA fight the fifth overall but you get the idea all right this is a tough situation because Jamal Hill did the same thing that the company asked yuri to do which is you suffered a serious injury that's going to slow down this division that's already in full freaking house on fire chaos although let me hedge that by saying the chaos has also produced really fun chaos i mean look i can name you the last five six seven light heavyweight title fights and except for that Uncle I have blow which fight, they're pretty much all fricking badass. Okay. This has been awesome, but Hill did what was

expected of him because they made Yuri do the same thing. So what should be his prize when he's healthy, he should get the first title shot. And I'm here to tell you that whether it's Pereira versus Hill, or even if they did Pereira versus Prohotska too, based on that somewhat questionable stoppage that we'll get to, you're still not going to lose there because it's all action. But Luke, let's be really honest here. Yes, there are times, you know, I didn't love Bisping Henderson too when Dan was 46 and they went to England for that.

But there are times when fights make sense, when storylines make sense. I'm not against Chito getting the title shot right now. I'm just not. The storyline connects and it makes sense, even though I understand that's hard for Corey Sanhagen or anyone else in that spot. But April is UFC 300. And I get that Izzy has said, I'm going to need some time. I may not come back for a couple of years.

But how badass is Poetan? He just came out with one of the coldest call outs to a dude who just knocked him the fuck out in one of the most inspirational, dramatic comeback victories after being, you know, stopped months earlier that we've ever seen. Yet he's still like, I know the overall score. I know that I'm up three to one on you yet. You just scored the last one, but look at all the history I'm making while you're sitting out. Let's run it back and do it. You only get so many times to have a card like UFC 300 that I really hope and I do expect

because the UFC, as we saw again here on Saturday, when it's time to step up and deliver in the big moments, they either try their best or most of the time they come through, right? It's some of the other moments this calendar year that we've been unhappy with. But in the big moments they deliver, it's going to have to be the type of fights that are extra special that you wouldn't normally see Pereira versus Izzy four for the or five or seven or wherever we are really wherever we are in the math with the light heavyweight title at stake which is a new wrinkle to the rivalry dude it's the fight to make right now and I and I and I hate that for Jamal Hill

because he's done nothing wrong he came in and filled in right remember they they did that jamal hill versus glover fight less than a month after the ankle eye of blohovich bomb right they're just looking for a champion jamal hill stepped in and filled that but luke sometimes when business is in front of you you could argue there's no rush for pereira and izzy to do it again let's let izzy come back when he's ready or you can say look it's ufc 300 all hands on deck let's let Izzy come back when he's ready. Or you can say, look, it's UFC 300, all hands on deck. Let's call Izzy. Let's tell him the price that we're willing to pay here. And let's ask him to move up and wait. Dana kind of shot it down afterwards and was like, well, no, Pereira's at 205. Izzy isn't. Well, let's be obvious here. Izzy has already cleaned

out the middleweight division multiple times. I know he's not the current champion right now. He just lost it. I get that. But he's already cleaned out the middleweight division multiple times. I know he's not the current champion right now. He just lost it. I get that. But he's already cleaned out that division. He's getting toward his mid to late 30s. The window's not wide open anymore. We've seen him before contemplate going up to 205. He did not perform poorly against Blachowicz and losing that title shot. What if he had time now?

He's not going to have the time to reform his body if they run this back in April. But is that enough time for Izzy to clear his head from the loss to Strickland, which he wasn't knocked out, but he was thoroughly dominated? Yeah, it might be, Luke. This might be the time. This rivalry is so damn great across kickboxing, MMA. And even though this fight on Saturday, in a lot of ways, didn't involve Izzy, the fact that Poiton, in this moment, he could have been like, F you, Izzy, I don't need you anymore. I just lapped you historically. See you later. I'll be getting in the Hall of. This is one of those emergencies where this fight,

this rivalry is just so freaking special. It's got commercial attachments to it. It's got elements of inspirational comebacks needed. And the fact that both of them in the last year have suffered knockout losses against each other that were devastating. Yeah, I'm sorry, Jamal Hill. This is the fight to make right now. Maybe we can guarantee Jamal Hill to get the winner of that.

I'm totally down with that. But if it's going to be UFC 300, this is the fight to make right now maybe we can guarantee Jamal Hill to get the winner of that I'm totally down with that but if it's going to be UFC 300 this is the fight if it's going to be any other date or event let's get Jamal up in the bullpen what do you think about that Luke I I think I largely agree I don't want to make Hill wait again I don't know what his return is. By the way, correct me if I'm wrong. Hill has an Achilles injury he's trying to fix, right? I think so. Yeah, okay. So usually like Durant, it took him like 11 months or something like that. Did you see that Aaron Rodgers might be back in December?

Yeah, are they calling this a misdiagnosis by the doctor? Or are they attempting to say that maybe he was, that he himself was misleading the public on how hard he was? Where's the truth? I don't know. I also know that, or at least what he had presented to the public was that he had some kind of novel surgery from one of the best medical doctors and surgeons in this

particular field. I don't, I don't really know how to explain it because I've never seen somebody who can come back that quickly from an Achilles tear. So the point I'm trying to make is I don't really know how to explain it because I've never seen somebody who can come back that quickly from an Achilles tear. So the point I'm trying to make is I don't know what Jamal Hill's turnaround time is. It's a little bit unclear. Also, we should say I don't know what Izzy's turnaround time is.

He just was like, I need a break. And I kind of agree that he does. At the same time, BC, what is my usual objection when two guys from a different weight class try to have their rivalry in the next one or when someone from a different weight class comes in and then tries to have a rivalry that the rest of the division can't get in on it it you know you're like it's not fair to the rest of those guys like if volkanovski gone to 155 and kept getting rematches or something you'd be like okay but what about the rest of those guys but at 205 they're really like aside from Jamal Hill who's the guy that you're chomping at the bit to see get a title

shot now maybe if Johnny Walker beats on Kalia we can start talking about that and I know they have a fight scheduled I think in February or so coming back up so we can get to that conversation then I'm just pointing out it's not like at 205 there's like two or three or four guys who are like right at the top who are you know you've really earned it you really want to see them you got to see that this thing rotate through 205 just is kind of a shit show and so it creates these opportunities to do these other things i just would say though as a moment of caution bc the fourth or excuse me the fifth or third fight however you want to describe it, between these two, I think would be amazing.

But we don't, even if 205 is in a state of disrepair, and even if I agree a one-time indulgence in this case might actually work, treating this division this way long-term, I think would be a disservice to it. I think you can make an exception for something like this. But I wouldn't want to see long-term absentee landlordism, so to speak, at 205. would be a disservice to it i think you can make an exception for something like this yes but i wouldn't want to see long-term absentee landlordism so to speak at 205 but again is ufc 300 if this is the case a special circumstance a monster special circumstance so you know and i think it's the same thing for izzy even if his intention was to take time off to heal to maybe slow play a a body transformation and a build-up to 205 if he gets that call and it's a certain amount of money it's going to depend on him because i don't know

if you saw but he did respond on social media to the call out from perera and basically put a picture of perera knocked out and from their first fight put the elsa frozen long hair on him and just wrote let it go which plays into the humor that Izzy usually tries to bring to it. But look, this is a unique scenario where even though Poiton's the leader in the rivalry, even though he just secured monster history when currently Izzy is title-less, Izzy owns the most recent chapter against them. Do you think all those facts I just laid out i know that you don't know but do

you think that could lead izzy to say yes to this because even though he's coming off a win the history that poiton just did the attention that he's getting that's gotta eat at izzy because izzy was just we were just calling him and he is he is one of the greatest fighters of all time nothing changes here from this loss of strickland in my mind maybe not upper room but is he's one of the greatest fighters we've ever seen well now he could one-up poiton in the most direct way by equaling his two division championship state historically by taking that second title from him and by taking the lead in their at least in their mma rivalry two to MMA rivalry, 2-1, I guess, you know, he lost the two kickboxing fights before that,

so Poiton still has the larger overall lead. I mean, look, maybe these guys will fight forever and be in BKFC in their 40s and bare-knuckle game-bred MMA in their 50s. I don't know, but for right now, if you're Izzy and you are the true competitor we know that he is, your biggest enemy just had a freaking moment and then he tried to piss on you in the microphone afterwards to lure you back. Where I come from, Luke, you answer the phone and you come back there and you get him back and you ruin his night again. If I'm Izzy, I take this, dude.

I take this. Because this is a unique scenario. You got to take it. For money, for fame, for respect, for legacy, you got to take it. I mean, that sounds nice. It's just hard to know what Izzy wants or what he doesn't. But what I would say is this. If this was just Poiton at 205 getting a big win,

like imagine this was the co-main event non-title, right? And so you're like, wow, he just beat the former champ. That's so great. But there's no belt on the line. Izzy doesn't take it. But the belt being on the line, right, changes the entire conversation. The entire conversation.

It's not about bragging rights at 205 in the same way that it would be under the previous scenario that I mentioned. It would be the belt he didn't get the first time against Jan Blachowicz. It would be, to your point, adding on to this legacy where he would have the edge now in MMA against a storied rival. It would also be another fighter who's not going to take him down. I know he took him down the first time they fought in MMA, but in know in all likelihood it's probably not going to take him down so to create some interesting opportunities there but the title being on the line to me is the one that changes

the conversation again don't know what is he wants we can't know but the fact that he is the belt holder there and a storied rival in a division where he tried and couldn't get there before i think it does change the equation. BC, we've got to move it along here just a little bit. Yeah, I just want to say the argument that Jamal Hill would have to face, unfortunately, was that he won the title in such secondary or almost third manner because Prochaska got injured and gave up the belt, and then there was a fight between two guys ranked higher than him

that ended in a draw. They didn't get a rematch for the title, and then he got to fight the former champion in his 40s and to his credit he won an absolute crazy fight he dominated it but it was a sick crazy fight um but he is somewhat johnny come lately and you gotta take you gotta step aside sometimes for big business it's just how this sport works look it's how this entertainment i mean for a guy who had again not his fault about how he got the title and then got injured. I don't know.

When he's ready, it's him. That's just as simple as I can say it for me. Last question on this. We thought there was, in the aftermath, especially given how the commentary team had treated it, not saying any of us would have done better. It's just they're reacting in real time with good or bad information. It seemed like there was going to be a stoppage controversy. But Yuri Prochocka, to his credit,

has made sure to say not only was I out, he has gone out of his way to say that Mark Goddard was right, specifically in those words. BC, no issue with the stoppage, right? No, I think that that changes it, what he said right there. And I want to say this, though. I'm not mad at the announce team, because if somebody showed you that replay with no context,

you would say what I think we all said in the moment last, you know, on Saturday night, which was, oh, man, that was a little bit quick. Yeah, he was obviously either close to knocked out or just heavily rocked. So I understood the stoppage watching the replay. But watching the replay, it's like, oh, yeah, man, unless he saw something we didn't. That looks too quick. Turns out he did see something we didn't and then you add in the fact that Prochaska admits it which was so by the way so humble of like you love to see that there was a lot of Bushido on this card overall like remember Favola and Santani doing a salute to them over their service I mean

there was a lot of moments like that where it's like damn it's good to see people actually respect each other and get along in that regard um it's not a controversy and i have you seen those videos that some doctors do luke where they break down and show you exactly the moment where yuri was knocked out and you can tell by the way he gets knocked out he gets knocked out and then when he lands on his back, he wakes back up, basically. Yeah, and look, even if he wasn't officially knocked out, the referees have to make a frickin', you know, reaction call like that, and they always have to take the safety of the fighter first. So even if he wasn't knocked out, he was getting hit with about five or six elbows, defenseless, and going down backwards.

To me, that's grounds of stopping a fight, especially if it's Poitani's frick's freaking burying you with those sharp elbows. So to me, it wasn't a controversy anyway, but I'm happy that Yuri did say that so we can move on. Because look, if he didn't say that, I think you could make an argument because that fight was so wild that you would want to run that matchup back. I think there's an argument there if it was a controversy, right?

If we didn't think, after hearing all the facts, that it's the right call. But I'm glad that we did hear all those facts. Yes, yes. I could see a case in the situation you're positing, but in the end, you got great clarity from it. So, great job by Poiton. Unbelievable. I mean, seven fights.

He's probably going to go into the UFC Hall of Fame. You'll never see anything like that again. Great job by Mark Goddard as well. But what do you do you agree when they asked Dana after the fight in the post fight press conference do you think that Poiton is now like one of the greatest fighters of all time he was like no hold on I don't know about greatest and I get the spirit of what his answer is because he has seven fights in two years how could you say he's one of the greatest fighters we've ever seen but again he won a title in two divisions which only nine guys did and the total caliber of the fighters that he

has recently defeated sorry dana he is one of the greatest fighters i'll tell you what he is he's a he's a he's a he delivers in big fights i mean i know he just lost izzy in his last middleweight contest but in general like when the stakes are high, that fucking guy delivers. Dude, he's Chewbacca. He's freaking bout it, bout it. Yeah. Luke, okay, that's what it is. He's a Wookiee.

He's a Wookiee. He's bout it, bout it. Forget about it. I will say this, though. Like, when you look at his resume, and we talked about him kind of one-upping Izzy because he beat Sean Strickland, and he did get the 205 title, and he did beat Jan. On the other hand, the thing that Izzy has over him is that staying power at middleweight. He did beat guys who were wrestler first.

He did have to do it a couple of times with Robert Whitaker and a couple of times with Marvin Vittori and blah, blah, blah. Like there's a certain amount of full auditing in the broad spectrum of his skills that he tests, that he passed, that to this point, even Poiton has still not been tested again. So, um, it's just such an interesting rivalry. They're very neck and neck in a lot of different ways and very similar in a lot of ways. And then different too. It'll be curious to see, um, what happens next.

All right. One final statement on Jamal Hill. I want to ask you a quick question in boxing. We have a thing when you get a mandatory opponent, but if you can't make your mandatory, you don't want to, and you don't want to be stripped of the belt the the sanctioning bodies allow you to make a deal with that fighter who is the mandatory where you can essentially pay him to be skipped for that one fight we don't have that system in the ufc because it's so much more controlled by a single entity but if jamal got skipped do you think it'd be acceptable that

he would be paid step aside money by the promotion and then promise like, Hey, you can come in the cage at 300, whoever wins, you can go up and we'll do a face off and we'll let everybody know that you're next. No matter what.

I mean, that would involve the UFC giving extra money, but Dana did give 50 K to everybody on this card that one as a celebration for the gate. And I don't want to, I don't want to underscore what they did here. They now have one, two and three in the biggest gates in the world's most famous arenas history yeah that's huge that's

monster that's a success uh let's pay this guy a little step aside cash you down with that you work the finances i would say this i've heard various okay so at times for like people to be like the backup fighter where you're cutting weight, which is not what you're positing, but I just want to point this out. I have talked to guys who have been offered to do backup deals for the UFC and sometimes the money is so low you cannot imagine it. And then in other cases where guys took fights on like really short notice, like week of or something like that, they got paid huge amounts of money. So I would say it would really, really, really have to depend on how much money they would pay him to step aside. But if they did that to a reasonable degree,

I would be okay with that too. If Jamal himself was financially compensated in the interim and agreed to step aside, yes, I would not have an issue with that. I would not. If you had a fighter's association a fighter's union could could implement that Luke that is true all right let's get to the topic number two because we have another new belt holder in the UFC and it goes by the name or he goes by the name I should say of Tom Aspinall so BC he within about a minute and eight or nine seconds

just flattened Sergei Pavlovich although he did take one big left hook from him earlier in the round. I want to have the conversation this way again, BC. I'm going to ask it this way. Is Tom Aspinall the best heavyweight in the world? We don't know. We don't know. And a lot of that goes back to the point that I keep trying to hammer home to everyone, that we have no idea who jones and heavyweight really is right now and now you add in the injury additional

layoff time great win for for john over gone but you know that was worst case scenario for cyril but what what stops me from saying no and then laughing because remember this is an interim title fight last minute right i mean i know pavlovich was cutting weight to be the backup, but still, it was a last-minute scenario, is who Aspinall has shown himself to be. And that's arguably already the most well-rounded, versatile heavyweight right now. And I want to take it even further, Luke. When Cyril Ghosn originally started rising, some people were calling him heavyweight 2.0, like this new version of what is possible, right? Like middleweight quickness,

switching stances, footwork, incredible. Well, even though Cyril Ghosn has bounced back from a couple of defeats and had a good win and is still in striking distance, it hasn't panned out for him. I really think Aspin aspinall if anyone is the real heavyweight 2.0 meaning this is what the future of the division will look like the fact that we already know that aspinall is this well-rounded and dangerous and you add that up with the fact that he has the shortest average fight time in ufc history yeah shows you right there how freaking great he is. Sometimes when people, and I'll even use Pavlovich as an example, that six fight first round knockout streak that he brought into this fight, it kind of clouds us to knowing how

good he really is. Same thing with Shane Carwin. When he's blowing everybody away in the first round, I just punched the microphone, Luke. I'm so fired up right now. You don't really know who he is right until you see it i'm actually happy for for aspinall here that he got rocked early that he had to feel pavlovich's power and he adjusted and then it came down to placement timing speed and power in those in the combinations um i don't know the answer to that and none of us can really be confident because

Jon Jones is the greatest fighter of all time. And your interview with Gordon Ryan just got me so bug-eyed to the idea of what if Jon just triples down on his jesuits and just becomes a finisher there. It could still be Jon. It could be somebody else for all we know. But right now, what Tom Aspinall has done, like he did it the hard way. He did it after sitting out a year right when he was about to break through with that big knee injury. He did it by coming back on short notice in this fight. And he did it by walking in there to really maybe the scariest guy in this entire sport now that Ngannou has exited briefly. And he knocked him out at his own game there's nothing

Tom Aspinall can't do it seems right we've got to see him go three four five rounds at the title level and see if the stamina is there but if you listen closely to his words it turns out Luke that injury where he was off for a full year is actually the best thing that could have happened to his career because he identified the areas that he was not giving 100% that maybe he was being a little bit lazy here or there on his fitness, on his training, all that. That was the wake up call that he needed to realize that like, I could be great at this right now and it can all be taken away. Those were his words in the pre-fight interview coming in and look at what he did with the opportunity. It's commendable, but he did it Luke because he's super special. This is the, the, this commendable, but he did it, Luke, because he's super special.

This is the blueprint of what the future of heavyweight, the slowest division in terms of connecting with the future and evolving. This is the evolution right there. And he's a real good guy, too. When he put the title around his dad's shoulder, his trainer, and dedicated it to him, dude, if you didn't tear up, then you're made of stone, Luke. Or maybe you were just really stoned and you were laughing at it. But, you know, Chris Weidman is still my boy, and Mr. Aspinall is still my dad, apparently.

I don't know if the math adds up. My point is, Aspinall, very, very freaking special. We don't, you have not, tell me the heavyweights off your hand, off the fingers on your hand that have the well-rounded ability in the history that this guy has watch out luke and i wasn't fully on board i know eric nixick was we've been playing that clip from march all over the place where he said on our show that aspinall is going to be the next champion he was right yeah he was i mean i i did know and i think we all knew that aspinall was more well-rounded than pavlovich but i just didn't know if he was going to pass that remember I did take a flyer on Pavlovich for okay bet um on the on the underdog line yes because he's been doing really well and you know there's some questions

about you know listen he beat he beat Tybora recently uh Aspinall did but it's like this is a very different can of worms but then you watch them lock up and again he did take a bit of a left hook from Pavlovich it's something you see and we talk can of worms. But then you watch them lock up. And again, he did take a bit of a left hook from Pavlovich. It's something you see, and we talk about in boxing all the time, dude, the foot speed of a guy like Aspinall. It's, I mean, Pavlovich looked like a polar bear trying to ride a tricycle to find him. Like, it was so awkward and weird.

Meanwhile, the fleet of foot, quick movement, and then his ability to cover distance with that one, too, is ridiculous. But you said something that I thought was kind of interesting, I don't think it's wrong but I want to update it you called him 2.0 I'm actually going to call him 3.0 and the reason why I'm going to do that is because to me like someone asked me over the weekend who can you think of a heavyweight rise like Aspinall's which has basically been since he got to the UFC more or less flawless on the way to winning a title. More or less.

Right? And there's no perfect comparison. But the closest that I can think of. And I've really kind of thought this through. To me. Aspinall is basically the second coming of Cain Velasquez. Like when Cain came through. He was like this guy.

Big for the weight class. Like a real true heavyweight. He had knockout power. He could strike. Velazquez. Like when Kane came through, he was like this guy big for the weight class, like a real true heavyweight. He had knockout power. He could strike. He could obviously wrestle from his days at Arizona State. Now he didn't have like the submission aspect of the game at that time, but at heavyweight, you didn't really need it necessarily. So he was for his era, very well rounded and solved for a lot of key problems that no one else did. Now, he did have the fight against Chet Congo where he had to kind of wrestle him even though he won, which he didn't look great. But then he rebounded against, you know, when he fought Noguera and whatnot.

And then he beat Brock Lesnar. And I remember when he beat Brock Lesnar, I was like, dude, that's the next generation of heavyweight. I got a very similar feeling watching Aspinall do what he did. He is so well-rounded. He is so athletic. He's young, which I don't think we should really ever stop having a conversation about.

Um, I mean, obviously until that changes, but I mean, how real, how young he is relative to the rest of this division. He is a guy who is the heir to what Cain Velasquez was during his era. This is the new version.

This is the guy. And to answer the question I asked you, BC, is he the best heavyweight? By the way, Francis had a great rise as well up until he fought Stipe and then kind of first time and kind of fell apart. There's lots of guys you could put

kind of in that story a little bit. I don't know if he's the best heavyweight. I don't know. But I would say this. Would you like his chances to beat Jon Jones? I think I would. Would you give him a decent chance of beating Big Francis? I think I would.

Certainly, I would want to see both because it is unknowable, but at a bare minimum, you would agree, highly intriguing at this point. Yeah, I mean, look, the jiu-jitsu aspect of it changes a lot because we've seen big punchers who can also wrestle, but he can do it all. You said Kane. That's an interesting comparison. Do you agree or disagree when people say he's the next evolution of Stipe?

So Stipe was not the guy we had Grand picked from the word go to be great. I mean, this is so funny, right? Because Stipe ends up being this great heavyweight. We just talked about Poiton being this great like two-sport two-weight world champion and I had said over the weekend like in 2014 I was at the Glory Last Man Standing tournament and uh Alex was in it but like let me tell you he was not the star of that show at all he didn't win the tournament he wasn't a big name he was like a good guy that was on the roster but like no one was pegging him in 2014 to be great and I saw people saying oh Rogan did not in 2014 he didn't I interviewed I saw people saying, oh, Rogan did.

Not in 2014 he didn't. I interviewed Rogan at that tournament. Nuh-uh. Not true. It wasn't until later that that was the case. So Stipe was never kind of pegged as that guy. He fell short against Stefan Struve. Stefan Struve stopped him.

So this is what I mean about the rise. Just to the point where they get to the UFC, to the get to the title. Who does Aspinall's rise most closely mirror? I would say it is Kane. Now, what you're talking about is that well-rounded ability overall. He might be more along that line in terms of the actual kind of game that he has,

but Stipe is also a bit of a wrestle boxer too. Like how many guys from cross body or from half guard is he hitting the straight arm bars on not many but Tom Aspinall can do it so he's a bit of an update there as well he's great so I think it's time to talk about the future Luke all right so in that particular sense BC you have been kind of have been ants in the pants about it they were saying it'd be disrespectful I think think UFC president Dana White will say it'd be disrespectful to even offer Stipe a fight against Tom Aspinall. BC, after Saturday, is it still disrespectful to offer Stipe a fight against Tom Aspinall?

No, it's actually the fight to make. Look, Sergey Pavlovich was in this discussion. He just got knocked out. He's out of the category. Jouto Almeida is still in the discussion of potentially next, but I don't see how you could have watched that dominant performance, though, and not think to some degree took a step back of our larger expectations. And look, I still think I'd like to see him against a Curtis Blades or whatever.

But here's the deal on Aspinall that the UFC just fell into. I get people on our show from the UK, where we don't live, by the way, who tell us, hey, when you guys say he's got this future star potential, you do have to pump the brakes a bit. I live over here. We like him, but he isn't that dude. Well, he's not the heavyweight champion. Okay, so that does change things. And the UFC has yet to try to capitalize on that combat sports boom in the UK from the standpoint of stadium shows.

I know Dana has always been hesitant. And I get sort of where he was coming from all along on the idea of, will it be the same product to the fans, the same entertainment experience in a giant stadium? But this is the dude. So here's what I got to say here, Luke. If we're going to strip Yuri, I know it's Jon Jones, but if we're going to strip Yuri Prochazka and Jamal Hill consecutively right after they're injured.

I know Jamal's like when Yuri did it, he vacated it and it was it. I know in this case, technically Jamal was still champion, which I didn't realize until the fight started on Saturday. They identified him as that in the front row, but that doesn't really matter. But both guys were essentially forced to give up the belt because their injury was so serious. You can always say, well, yeah, the rules are going to be different for Jon Jones. And I think that's kind of what UFC is saying because as Saturday night, Dana still said, no, we got a chance to make Stipe Jon next.

We make it. Well, here's what I got to tell you, Dana. Aspinall might actually be this 3.0 that Luke just said. And you add in the UK side of it in the growing expansion of Europe, right? Imagine if Toporia becomes champion. Look what they could do there. Look what they could already do with Benoit Saint-Denis, which we'll talk about. You can have the heavyweight title there and you can do stadiums like Anthony Joshua does.

It's time. And if you look across the landscape of saying what's the right opponent to give Aspinall first to try to take his critical and commercial success to the next level. It's actually Stipe. Now look, they may have to pay him, Luke, because Stipe is very picky, it seems. He identifies a fight that he wants. He's willing to sit out over a year at times regularly to eventually get that fight. Remember, he had to do that to get the trilogy with Cormier.

He does that. That's what he does. He fights once a year, if that. But he's the greatest heavyweight they've ever had. He just had a camp to prepare for Jones, and we know he's relatively in shape, it seems, Luke. Although there was a video of him limping. We'll get to that later. But this is the best name you could give credibility, in my opinion,

to Aspinall right away of who's available. Jon Jones is not available, and Ganu's not available. Everybody else seems to be a decided step down. If you ran him back against Curtis. Ngannou's not available. Everybody else seems to be a decided step down. If you ran him back against Curtis Blades, it's not going to do commercial numbers. Could it be an interesting fight? A rematch of the only loss in the UFC for Aspinall by injury?

Yes. But if you want to go big, and it seems like all UFC really wants lately is to swing really big and maximize profits. How about Tom Aspinall in a UK soccer stadium against the greatest heavyweight in the history of the sport and a guy who is maybe an earlier version of him as

we're just identifying and a fight that Aspinall should win and would be favored to. It would be a fun shootout. Imagine if Aspinall walks out of there. Here's what I say. You make Stipe next. You pay Stipe for it. And Luke, you put the undisputed title at stake oh why would you do that bc you're just asking john jones to retire well if john

jones is right now only going to come back for stipe and maybe nothing else this actually would be kind of a power move by the company to say okay john we're ready for you whenever you come back you get the next title shot. But you're injured in a serious way, no different than Yuri and Jamal, even though you're different because you're the GOAT. But we got this guy that we're going to build up. We're going to run him into Stipe, and guess what?

You're going to face the winner at International Fight Week next week. Is that a bad idea, Luke? Where I come from, that's a fantastic idea. You take Aspinall's start at the next level. You put a hell of a great name on his resume that starts off this run, and you start to bang that drum for John versus Tom. And you tell John, look, if you want to retire now, that's great. We love you. You're the greatest of all time. No one's ever going to take the two divisions

away from you. But if you want to get healthy and come back, you're facing the winner of Tom versus Stipe. Because Luke, as good as John versus Stipe would have been for this window, MSG this past weekend, a perfect crossover fight. It stamps John on the way out. If he retires, it's truly the greatest of all time. The window's closed, dude. He got hurt. The window has closed. You run that back next year. People aren't going to care. And they're especially not going to care on the level. If they think Aspinall is potentially better than both of them, Aspinall is going to have to fight again before John comes back. You're not going to keep him on ice. Do it against Stipe. It's the fight to make right fricking now. Okay. Let me ask a couple

of questions because it's an interesting idea. I don't hate it. I don't hate it. I don't know how the fan base feels about it, but I don't hate it. The question I would have is a couple of things. What's the difference between a fight where John fights Tom Aspinall in however it was when he gets back in terms of pay-per-view buys versus what it would do with John versus Stipe whenever he gets back. Now let me posit something. The more that Tom Aspinall goes out there and does Tom Aspinall things, there's no denying that the value of a Stipe-John fight,

even as a box office attraction, will take some kind of hit. Probably not a substantial one, but I do think there is a tax to be paid there. So give me a sense of what you think the difference would be in terms of the return for the UFC on these, because obviously that's going to factor into any decision-making that they have. We're in a new era where UFC's pursuit of big pay-per-view buys, it's not the same as it used to be. They're not as, you know, they don't need to build up pay-per-view buys, it's not the same as it used to be. They're not as, you know, they don't

need to build up pay-per-view stars as a necessity like they did in the past. We've been over this a million times. It's the ESPN deal. They get a guaranteed minimum. So what have they done in the Endeavor era, but in particularly the past year, year and a half to figure out how to truly maximize profits? Well, they've done weird things like allow you to put your name in the middle of the octagon for a lot of money. But you know what, Luke, they've done? They've tried to focus on live gates. They try to go to big areas, cities, countries,

where there's a local fan favorite there. They put those people up in the main and the co-main events. They put tickets on sale for a lot of money, and they cash freaking in. The pay-per-views don't matter as much. So if you potentially have a a monster pawn in aspinall to open up europe in a big way no he's not connor he's not patty if he ever figured himself out but he's a little bit more solid in a way a little bit more like we might be we might

have something here for the long haul the only difference between the success that the UK has in combat sports, in filling arenas and doing pay-per-views and stuff in the US is that the US charges a buttload more. It's why for years, when we talk about pay-per-view buys in the boxing space, we're only talking about the US or in some cases like the US and Canada or North America. And you ask why? Because the price range, the price that they put on pay-per-views is demonstrably different based on the country. In the U.S., right, on the real big boxing ones, we're now used to paying $75, $79, $100 for the two big Mayweather ones

that went that high, Pacquiao and McGregor. But in the U.K., they're still charging $20, $30. When they fill soccer stadiums when it's george groves versus carl frotch one and two or it's anthony joshua there how are they able to fill 80 to 90 000 oh because the demand is there well the demand is there they've done a great job since the 2012 olympics and the launch of anthony joshua making the uk not just for boxing obviously for ma2a a hotbed but they put the prices affordably. Do you know what's not affordable? The ticket prices that the UFC are doing this year now when they're maximizing

profit, when they put John Jones and MSG originally scheduled and they say, okay, how about $915 for the worst seat regular price? If they go to a soccer stadium in the UK where they're pretty much setting themselves up for 80 to 80,000 potential here, they raise the prices to American levels and they put the homegrown boy in there against John Jones or against Stipe or whatever in a stadium, the pay-per-view buys won't matter because you'll be raking in that gate at such an aggressively alarming pace in ways that in the past they haven't done in those markets. So you say, okay, well that market react and respond and pay that. Well, the UFC had no problem finding out if people will pay that Madison Square Garden. Guess what they did,

right? They did. They were still there. Even though John was off the card, that place was rocking. I think that's what you do, Luke. You ride the wave of how quickly can we build up Aspinall? They don't know if he'll ever beat Jones, but wouldn't you want Aspinall's star to be as big as it possibly good? If Aspinall goes out there and beats Stipe in the next six months, I believe that Jon Jones versus Tom Aspinall in the UK in a stadium, or heck, at Allegiant Stadium in Vegas in a football stadium, is bigger than John versus Stipe can ever be. John versus Stipe at MSG this weekend would have been big. The window is now closed, Luke.

The next direction is the next big thing, and that's Tom Aspinall. So ride that. Take advantage of that. And if we can't do Francis versus John, and we can't right now, Dana said, we'll get to that later, too. You know what we can do when John comes back? John versus Tom Aspinall if he beats Stipe. So, Luke, I think I just answered your question right there.

You get the hometown guy, you raise the prices. Okay? You raise those prices up, brother. I would say this. You know what's kind of interesting? I do think there probably is a tradeoff negatively in doing John versus Aspinall versus John doing Miocic, even with the amount of time it may take to get to that point. I don't know that for certain, but I feel that way now.

But what I would say is this, BC, if Tom Aspinall really is the guy, and it looks like he could be, but if he is the guy and he goes and beats Miocic, which then sets up the John fight, and then he beats John Jones, and I realize I'm getting very far ahead of myself but I'm just talking about a world where the UFC treats their next attraction as their most important priority rather than a separate attraction because they're still talking about how oh yeah the winner of Stipe and John is going to fight you know the eventual interim champ in this case Aspinall I don't believe. I don't believe that they're going to do that unless there's really no other option. But what I wanted to say is, BC, that would blow up Tom Aspinall, the future of the division, in a way that nothing

else could. I don't know what kind of star power in the UK Aspinall has now. It does not appear to be substantial, but time will change. He is now a champion, albeit an interim one, but I think that will boost his fortunes. But I guess the point I want to make is, BC, if you really wanted to boost his fortunes, if you really were believing that's the guy of the future, that's the track you would go to because nothing would make his resume and star power look good like beating those two guys on his way up to getting the championship on their way out the door i just don't know what the likelihood of something like that is however much you might believe in the idea right um bc question for you on this one

we still don't know a lot about tom aspinall right i mean we haven't seen him in the third round we didn't even see him in the fucking third minute of this fight. He's clearly very talented. He's clearly very athletic. You don't get to where he's at if you don't have a lot of ability. But, like, what's it like when he gets tired in the third round? We don't know. What does his IQ look like when he gets tired in the fourth and fifth?

We don't know. There's still some unanswered questions. I don't know who's going to pull it out of him. But do you feel like we still have a little bit of fact finding to go about with him you know i had mentioned that earlier as sort of a hedging comment to say look you know we still have to see him in those later rounds but i think when you marry together as i said before the fact that we already know for a fact that he's the most well-rounded heavyweight today among the elites and you mix that with that early stoppage time the quickest average time in ufc history and you look at the names that he's starting to step up against he may look he may not get there he may not get to that

third fourth and fifth round soon i mean against john jones probably right but like he may not get there we we have to judge with judge this guy with what we have. And he's a finisher. And he's showing himself to be tough, too. He took that big punch from Pavlovich and didn't have issues with that. Let's give him time to do that. But I think what we're seeing, and look at how he looked on short notice, right? It's like, okay, it was only a minute plus.

All right, I get it, right? So, like, okay, it was only a minute plus. All right, I get it, right? So, yes, there will be certain elements to his game. We're only going to know about it when we know about it. But what do we know about him? What we do know is pretty damn impressive. I want to find out what you know about his tats, though, Luke. What's with the solid covering cover-ups? Does he just have some?

They're not great. They're not great um the problem with what he's got going on is a few problems but one of the big problems is one he's trying to do a bunch of cover-ups for stuff he doesn't like and then the other problem is he's got a bunch of different tattoo styles from his chest to his arm to his back that don't really easily connect like it's not to say that you always have to get one tattoo style no matter what but if you start getting a bunch of different tattoo styles it starts to look really weird and disjointed and that's what he's got going on so um don't love him don't love his tattoos if i can be honest with you yeah look i had to i had to make a couple one time where i

had to you know apologize for that dale junior dale. joke that really hurt middle America really badly. Do I owe you the same apology about the commandant? Has his heart recovered, Luke? I'm asking with sincerity. I think the commandant's doing okay. But yes, listen, I know you're box cutter, Brian. I know you undermine the fact that I actually did serve the country, and yet you think that somehow you're just living in Connecticut is equal to that but it's not it's not well Luke near far or wherever you are I really

hope that the commandant's heart will go on all right yes me as well he is the he is the highest ranking officer in the Marine Corps and a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff so that's kind of important you know yes have you met him does he know you Luke have you met this man no I've not I've not met a dude I I only ever was in a room with a two-star general. You just don't get access to three and four-star generals. That just doesn't happen. Now, when you see the generals with all those accommodations and stars and stripes,

do you know which one means the amount of trains they've run during boot camp, Luke? I don't know to what extent the officers engage in that kind of behavior. I can tell you the enlisted apparently do it with regularity. Oh, okay. All right. Thank you. I mean, just given the opportunities that were floated my way, albeit repulsive,

seems quite frequent. Okay. All right. Let's get to topic number three. And BC, you know, listen, we're here praising. And by the way, Pavlovich, quickly before you put the graphics on the screen, Pavlovich, I don't think his stock takes a dramatic hit. No.

He's still young enough. He's still going to beat a bunch of guys too. We should say that out loud. He may KO everyone else, Luke. That's just the truth. By the way, I think he'll get a, not an immediate rematch, but I think he'll get in a rematch down the road. Like, I don't think this is his last title shot by any stretch.

So we shall see with him. All right. Now, BC, here we are talking about the greatness of Poetan, the sportsmanship of Yuri. And, you know, here is a case where we don't think Pavlovich's stock took a hit. And Aspinall could be, you know, the next coming of God knows what. I mean, or saying nice things about a bunch of people. And I don't want to say a bunch of mean things about Mackenzie Dern I just don't I don't want to get up on here on a on a Monday

and be like she's so awful but BC we gotta talk about what the fuck that was man that was not a great performance from her she's had 12 UFC fights BC 12 UFC fights she's's 30 years old. I don't think that we can say, Oh, well that experiment failed. That's not what I'm saying. But BC, I am going to ask you this. Can her development be fixed at this point?

I don't know. I don't know. And this is the same conversation we've had after like a lot of, I mean, she's three and three now in her last six, we've had this conversation all bunch lately, but I think the difference in this case, when a lot of people I mean, she's three and three now in her last six. We've had this conversation all bunch lately, but I think the difference in this case, when a lot of people were, look, rightfully hammering me out.

I mean, minus 450, Luke. I mean, minus 400 would have been a much better refrain for me in this case. But let's be serious here. A lot of people are like, ha ha. Obviously you should have saw that coming. The odds makers did. Don't you know that Jessica is this or that? Don't you know that McKenzie looked like this in previous fights? Yeah. But I watched the Angela Hill fight and it looked like a move toward the future, a move

toward ironing it out. So when you ask me straight up, like, can it be fixed? Look, she's a nine lives fighter. She has become that. Adrian Broner was that for a long time and that means that no matter how many losses setbacks poor performances and a win sidesteps outside the you know ring or cage sometimes you just have this confidence in this athlete kevin lee for us that eventually they'll put it together she's only 30 so can i nine live her and say, you know, she hasn't used them all yet, Luke. But did I? The reason why I'm not like, man, I was so stupid is because that performance that we saw on Saturday wasn't supposed to be the performance that any of us really expected. That doesn't mean she still couldn't have gotten beaten or even stopped by andrage but luke her striking defense her i don't say knowledge but i mean i mean look her her natural reactions to the placement of her chin i mean like it regressed aggressively it fell apart and it sucked that like i want to praise her

for what i do a lot she's got a a great chin. She's willing to fight. Even though this fight was stopped and I'd have a problem with it, she was willing to get up and keep going. She didn't even look that beat up afterwards when she put a video on Instagram apologizing to the fans and just trying to come to terms with it. But how she lost it was like the whole, all four wheels falling off the wagon at once, Luke. It just completely went out the window. So now I've got even deeper questions than I've ever had.

You could tell me all you want before. Well, BC, statistically, actually not that great of a takedown person. Or statistically, or the technique she shows here is wrong. And I'm not saying it wasn't. I just see somebody who's physical, aggressive, powerful with her right hand when she does line it up. And she did a few times against Andrade where you wondered if it was going to go in the other direction. But the key foundational elements that need to be there. I mean, you heard Joe Rogan almost embarrassingly say, I'm not sure I've seen somebody this far into their career, like react that way to strikes.

She fell apart. So if we have to ask ourselves why, I think you do have to look at the chaos in her life, her gym closing, her coach, Jason Perillo, no longer there, which I didn't ever find out the story. I know Ruka closed, but could Perillo have continued with her? Did they have a falling out? I don't know.

But she brought her dad into a higher place in her team. She brought in some new voices and it went disastrously. So can she fix this moving forward? I guess I have to echo the answer I used to say, which is it's up to her, Luke. It's up to her. Is it too late at 30? If you're only focusing on those foundational elements and how bad they looked on Saturday, it actually might be too late.

But it really comes down to how quickly can she be a student of this and aim directly at those areas that are vastly not up to par. And yes, change up the team again, find the right fit, and get after it. Is it possible? Yes. But did we lose for even me, who was nine-living her and saying, don't worry about it, She'll figure it out. I don't know if she figures out anymore. Luke take.

Okay. Bet out of it, right? That's all for fun and games and concerts. I was really disappointed as a journalist and fan for her. She put it in the work. It was her time. The promotion was ready again to anoint her.

And you got to give obviously Jessica Andrade credit for resetting her own career within this disastrous year for her, but the combination of the divorce, new new team all of that for Dern she just wasn't who she needed to be for for a fight this dangerous and this important and that was hugely disappointing I don't know she fixes it Luke I'm very interested to hear what you think because you've been uh you know more hands-on critical in some of the more technical ways but the disconnect got wider it got freaking wider how does that happen i mean i do believe she regressed a little bit here uh people say she regressed a lot i don't think so are you saying just that it was andrage's power that that kind of brought out a lot of these things where maybe

angela hill couldn't do that to her i I think that's part of it, for sure. You know, no doubt about it. Like, Andrade would relish a situation where an opponent is charging into her, even if she's landing a little bit. And by the way, Dern did land a little bit in the first and second round. She punched her head back with a good jab. But then she squared up. You can't square up against Andrade.

Andrade squared up against Whaley and got handled in a heartbeat. Luke, you can't do that at this level. I said this last week. Do you remember when one of my criticisms of her was, have you ever noticed how much she loses her balance? Did you notice how much she lost her fucking balance here? I just can't overstate to you, it's a different sport, it's a different reality, but guys

do yourself a favor. Go back and watch, I'm going to just pick something, go back and watch the Bud Crawford-Errol Spence fight. Watch how Bud is never off balance, even when he gets hit. He's never off balance. He always has his balance underneath him. Go watch Jon Jones against whatever you think one of his best performances, even in the stand-up.

Go look at how he never loses his balance. The very best people people almost irrespective of style because balance on top uh for grappling or you know how your weight is distributed in any kind of capacity for combat sports it really matters she's still 12 fights in at age 30 she loses her balance in combinations and blitzes and throwing punches like what does that tell you it tells you that like the very basic mechanics of punching, not even just full-on striking combinations, but just punching still is a problem for her.

Like, I just don't understand how that's possible. I mean, think of something like this, BC. Alexander Hernandez, he obviously had those two great wins to start his career against OAM and then Benil Dariush, and he obviously faced a regression. But you can look at his game, whether he wins or whether he loses, and you can clearly see technical improvement. You can go back and look at what he was doing when he got those losses

versus now where he is. And it's hit or miss, but look at his game. You can clearly see defensive responsibility. You can see him setting up things from takedowns. You can see what angles up things from takedowns. You can see what angles he's trying to achieve. All of these things you can get a look at. And now again, it can not necessarily guarantee him a win, but you can see the difference. I can barely see differences with her. Barely. She does have a nice jab. And I said this on Saturday night, BC,

if you had told me you would have a jiu-jitsu prospect who at the black belt level won basically everything she could at in gi and no gi and didn't mind taking a punch and that person at 30 would still not have their balance underneath them when they struck I just wouldn't believe you I wouldn't believe you I just would not believe something like that you know it'd just be hard to hard to noodle you would think these are the ingredients you would want not just for success in mma but to be able to tolerate some of the difficulties in making that change from jiu-jitsu to mma um guys i mean i i would say that some of this is fixable it's it's incomprehensible to me that by 32 she could not

be a lot better than she is now in part BC because she has so much room for improvement. Right. We're not talking about minor fixes. We're not talking about minor adjustments. We're talking about maximally important things, foundational skills that give life to so much else. So much of that is missing, which is really a problem. But that means so much of that can be achieved under, you would imagine, better circumstances. So for that reason, I do think some of this is fixable. However, BC, it really gets to the point. I mean, listen, she started with the MMA lab on a UFC developmental contract

when she was in LFA. She trained with Jason Perillo. These are like, you know, John Crouch and Jason Perillo. Dude, these are proven names in the sport. So when someone asks me, like, what is the problem? I honestly don't know. How could, I legitimately do not understand, and I'm being serious, like, I don't know how you can have the raw ingredients for success

with the kind of tutelage around her, and it end up 12 fights in here. Yeah, we questioned in the past if it was work ethic and but you know she was in great shape when she came in is it just not grasping the sport or being as much of a student of it i don't know i'm not in the gym i'm not seeing that but i mean would you would you recommend luca move to las vegas and call the two most important men in her future which is uh eric nixick and Chef Kaz. Just completely start over, right? I mean, is it time to go that aggressively to just flip the script and start over, no stone left unturned?

Yes, yes, yes. This is the four-alarm fire. This is it. This is it. The UFC has been really eager to put her in a title position for a very long time which i can understand i totally get the fight business it all makes sense fine but they've been kind of waiting for her and waiting for her and waiting for her to turn the corner it's 30 it's 30 this is not the end nor am i suggesting it is but

if she wants to become what i think is still possible whether that's champion or just a much better version of herself there has to be a complete overhaul of what has happened up to this point right now right at this moment because 33 is too late your prime is I mean dude she should already be where she needs to be at age 30 or pretty close to it, right? 30 to 32, 33, those are your best years right there, and she's this far behind. It is just very hard to comprehend how we got there, but you're right. She needs, it seems to me, BC, a dedicated hand,

somebody who really understands, find ways to make her game blend together, can give her the dedicated attention, and then also wouldn't you agree it seems like the competitive fire of being in a big gym with hard sparring days you know there's a right way and a wrong way to do that but under the better circumstances it really does provide benefit to a certain kind of fighter and the in this particular case and i can't believe i'm saying it but one this, one this green could really benefit

from a dedicated head coach and an environment where she gets pushed competitively by UFC or Bellator, you know, those kinds of peers in the training room. Shoot the box? Or, again, there's good teams in Brazil, too. You know, I wouldn't want her just, you know, getting... Hey, call up the Noggs, dude, right? Call up the Nog dude right call up the

nogs go old school it's your favorite middle nog yeah yeah no one talks about him enough little nog living off that legacy of the big one right uh but but bc i i it like if she really wants to do something with her career i i legitimately think it's still possible right i do believe that yeah it has to start today. Today it has to start. Final question on Andrade. She was, like, celebrating on the cage, did the title shot thing. The problem is that she just got finished recently by Shaonan and Suarez, who are ahead of her in the rankings.

But Jessica came in at No. 5 at Strawweight, whether she deserved that or not, fresh off three losses. Will she fight for a title again at 115 in your eyes? She's 32 years old. She's got almost like 45 fights, I think, Luke. She's got 14 defeats or something. She's been around, but this was a resurgent win when she needed it most. Does she fight for a title again?

I'm going to say yes. I'm going to say yes. This was, again, dude, half the predictions I get wrong, half of them I get right. But I do think that my reasoning on this one pre-fight was vindicated, which was if that performance against Lauren Murphy was from 2021 or something, I'd be like, yeah, this streak is real bad. And the streak was bad.

It was a bad losing streak. I understand why the oddsmakers had her as the underdog. But that win over Lauren Murphy was from this year. It was from this year. a bad you know it's a bad losing streak I understand why the odds makers had her as the underdog but that win over Lauren Murphy was from this year it was from this year and given the mistakes that McKenzie makes and that I was like I don't know man like this one I think Andrade is probably going to take this and so I do believe that panned out I think that she's still got so many things that elevate her game now she's 32 it looks like this was a really restorative win for her emotionally. I hope it is as well financially.

You know, I think the division has changed, and her grip on it is certainly weakened. But you asked, will she fight for a title again? I'm going to say yes. I think she's got the ingredients to do it. If Whaley holds it, and that's no guarantee given the names that are coming up, but if Whaley holds it, it would be a nice rematch considering how quickly Whaley took the title off Jessica.

Right? Yes. If she gets to that point and she earns it, I wouldn't hate running that back. Also, look, she just lost to Tatiana Suarez. They could run that back if it ends up making sense a little bit later down the road depending on how things go if one gets the belt and the other one doesn't.

I guess she's lost to enough big names of late that we could run back all these how about a rose trilogy luke all right we'll do it at 125 not bad exactly uh all right let's get to topic number four here if we can which was how about this fucking frenchman boy he is on fire these days benoit saint-denis he ices matt frivola with a head kick in the very first round we felt bad for friend of the show, Matt Frivola, but that's the brutal game that these guys are in. BC, my question to you is, based on what we now know, what is the upside for Benoit Saint-Denis?

Yeah, the world title. That's the upside. Wake up. This is it. It's time. 27 years old. He's putting the big wins together. The way that he handled for vola who's

always dangerous and explosive and as i expected he came to msg for vola did to go for the knockout win that head kick was just beautiful brutal ground and proud right after it the poise that he showed throughout i mean look he he calls himself the god of war. He's got the military background. He has not a Poeton-like stone face, but he's got the kind of look that lets you know he's battle-tested, and he's ready to go all the way to the top right now. Crazy that BSD comes in unranked, but I love, love, love his post-fight interview. It wasn't, hey, UFC, give me top 15. I'm ready. It was, if you're willing. I'm ready. It was, if you're willing, I'm ready to fight Mahachev now. And if you don't want to, I'm ready to fight Gaethje for the BMF now. And if not, how about Gamrot or Poirier? I mean, that's what you want

to hear after a big moment. You tie in with that the untapped potential of the UFC in France, which is they're just starting, right? It just got legalized, MMA in France, just a couple of years back. This guy, along with Tepuri, if he wins the belt in Spain and along with Aspinall, could be a major, major player in the short term for them in Europe. And Luke, he looks to be the goods. What is my white belt eyes missing about this guy? Is there anything that doesn't, any box that doesn't check because you luke are the real simon cowell of mma you tell it like it is well you know again there's been times with with his fight iq kind of got in the way but not this time this time he looked to

make great decisions for vola looked to me like he had like happy feet and it was ben washington he was kind of calm and waiting and focused. And I have to tell you too, like here's a great example. Great example. We mentioned previously Poetan firing the underhook and then getting to a hand and then just gave it up when he was trying to stand, which you would not want to do.

You don't always have to have the undertook, but like you need to have the underhook basically to get that process started. Right. In general, um, inside control matters, but like you'll notice that people who aren't very good at grappling they'll know what the

process is like it's like okay i gotta fire the underhook i gotta get to an elbow i gotta get my hips back whatever they're trying to do with the underhook but it might take them a couple times and a little bit of a not just that it takes they think in stages right first i do this and then they kind of wait and they go to the next stage and they kind of wait. So the process is slow. I want you to pay attention when Benoit Saint-Denis, he gets an underhook twice underneath on Matt Favola because he gets him taken down. When he fires the underhook, he immediately goes for the sweep and then he fires another underhook and he uses that to stand. Why do I bring this up? can wrestle he has comfortability even underneath he has offensive urgency everything is a smooth one movement for him it's not fire the underhook then plant then

turn right this very mechanical way of grappling he doesn't have a mechanical way of grappling everything is smooth right everything is one motion all the way through to get up or to do whatever he's trying to do he doesn't wait around he doesn't sit and wait to get to a position and go okay now that i'm here now what do i do it's quick and they're all good correct decisions right after the other so it all looks like one motion that to me by the way is grappling competence and you saw that from ben wa saint denis in this particular fight so when folks talk about like you know the difference between like poetons grappling where it needs be, it needs to look more like

that. That kind of thing is better. And then on the feet, BC, look at the great decisions he made. Did he take one big punch in this fight? I don't even know if, I mean, it may be a couple because Frivola was throwing in combination, but not a whole lot. He kept good distance and dude, he always finds offense. Always. He finds offense at range. He finds offense underneath. He finds offense on top. He finds offense on the clinch break. He's just always attacking.

And if you let your guard down, quite literally, for just a minute, he'll just send you to the land of wind and ghosts. Those kicks to the body paid off, BC, because he had Frivola thinking it was going to come here. Hit him with a head kick because he's always looking for offense. Kid's got ability, man. He's got real ability. Give me a fight for him.

He just named everyone that matters at lightweight. What do you want? What do you want from this guy? I still think he needs to think 10 to 14-ish, depending on where he lands. I don't know exactly where he's going to land. Favola was at 14, so he might take that place. But know you could go RDA if you wanted who's sitting at top 10 I don't think RDA wants that fight but the fight I don't want that fight for RDA dude I don't want

to see RDA get hurt anymore Luke okay fair enough but I like Jalen Turner I like the Jalen Turner yes Jalen Turner is sick on his feet he He has been battle-tested against tough guys like Mateusz Gamrot. He's got offense everywhere. It's a clash in styles. It's a guaranteed action fight. And a real kind of test about who's got the power to move into the top 10. I'd love to see that contest. Real quick, people on Twitter are saying we are forgetting Gon

when talking about Aspinall's future. If UFC still wants to do John versus Stipe, which it does seem like Dana still wants to, do you think Aspinall versus gone, hey, maybe with BSD on the undercard, is the right next fight? And which country would you put that in, France or the UK? You could put it, well, because Tom's the champion, I would not want to put it in France. I would want to put it in England. But would I cry if they did it in France?

Certainly not. Nurturing that market, I think, is important. You're right. We didn't talk about it. In part because I'm not sure if they're going to do that or if they're going to make him fight Almeida. I don't really know what they're going to do. It's going to be kind of weird to see.

But I'll say this. I love that fight. A real test of his ground game for gone. If your ground game isn't up to par yet after the Jones fight, Aspinall is going to find out. So we shall see if they end up making that contest. But okay, BC, do you like the Jalen Turner idea for Benoit Saint-Denis? Yes.

Yeah, I'm in. I mean, I take camera too. I know a lot of these guys have fights, but give me any one top 15. I want to see how good this guy is. Let's do it. All right. And last but not least for topic number five here there was a question asked about ufc are you two ufc president daniel white at the post-fight press conference and someone a reporter i don't they

someone tried to identify as alex bahunin it's not him for mma mania it was somebody else i don't know who and they asked a question about whether they would co-promote with Francis. And Dana gave a very, you know, I would say not nice answer to it. Now, I got a question about it for you, BC. But to set the context, let's see what Dana had to say. Let's promote with the PFL for, say, a Jones-Ningano fight. And is there anything specifically stopping that from happening? Is there any way to stop it from happening? Is there anything that's stopping

that specific fight or a specific cross promotion with the PFL from happening? No, I'm not interested in that. We tried to make that fight. They didn't want to do it. And he doesn't fight here anymore. I'm not interested. So no fights with the PFL

just in general? Should I? Possibilities. We got one, two, and three. They can't sell a fucking gate. Talk to me. It's a stupid question, but go ahead. Talk to me. Why would I do that?

I tried to make the fight here. They didn't want to do it. But I should co-promote with, you know, with like a Bellator or a PFL. Why should I do that? Talk to me. I guess it's just, I guess, a partnership with ESPN or anything like that, just in general with just co-promoting at MMA to make, I guess, MMA fans happy just for everyone to be involved with each other.

Because of ESPN? As a partnership, yes. You win the dumb question of the night. Congratulations, sir. What did you want to say? Did you want to chime? Yeah, okay. BC, he didn't give a great response there,

just a sort of antagonistic one. My question to you is, he says that they have no interest and they tried, it doesn't matter, with Francis and John, but isn't right now actually the very best time to make this fight? It is. It's hard. I give that journalist, and I don't know who that is, a lot of credit for asking it.

These are the kind of things that we're regularly challenging those. And look, I understand why those who go to every single scrum and press conference maybe don't always ask super hard questions because their employment. How about never? How about never? They ask super hard questions because their employment. How about never? How about never? Yeah. They never ask hard questions. There's a precedent set if you keep asking difficult questions,

but it's still important. I just don't like that. Whoever said that wasn't ready to, because look, this was a rare time where Dana opened the floor for a brief second. He said, okay, talk to me. And I actually, I'm not against Dana having that sort of fucking attitude in that moment,

because if you're going to debate, you want Dana on the offensive. You want to have it. That should have been that journalist coming back with facts or, you know, them saying, oh, maybe for ESPN doesn't look good. Because why did Dana react so negatively? Because PFL is not going to be on ESPN next year. We already figured out this, right? We already pretty much know that we're just trying to figure out where they're going to go. So it wouldn't make sense. But couple things first and foremost no it's rewriting history i understand the stance he's saying we tried to make the fight and he did for a short season but it was under distinctive rulings it was we'll make this fight francis and we will pay you one-time fee of eight million like the most we've ever paid anybody uh but you

have to sign a really long contract with that's going to be more restrictive than the one you just got out of all your pay days after that john fight will not be at that level you know all the things that come with this you're not going to be able to box on the outside and oh by the way we're not even willing to hear the demands you might want to have of working with us to make this promotion more fighter friendly so that first and foremost then you add in the oh wait didn't francis want this fight for the entire three years that john was out and you could have made it except for it was john who was holding out wanting dionte wilder money and never got it but the biggest thing i would have said if i was the

one offering that and then was in a little back and forth with Dana was, Dana, what do you always say about boxing? That these motherfuckers can't get out of their own way. These greedy promoters that won't let me into their sandbox with Zufa boxing, right? Dana thought he would just walk in and everybody would partner with him. He always says, look, these guys can't get out of their own ways. They can't partner together and do what's right for the sport and make the fights that the fans want. Dana, it's no different in MMA. It's no different. I understand that there's not a great precedence in history of

co-promotion with the UFC because when you get to a certain level, that becomes, let's just say, like not always the best move. If you want to act like you're above everybody, then not working with them and making everybody come to you, you have that luxury. Well, let's at least tell the truth. Yeah, you tried to make it, but you tried to make it exclusively under your own terms. All those bad people in boxing that you talk about, even though boxing has made more of these type of fights in the last couple of years than we've ever seen, from Wilder Fury to Ryan Garcia and Tank Davis, right? People literally crossing the streets.

How about Sean Porter, Terrence Crawford? Like, literally crossing the streets. But in general, here's the deal in boxing most of the times the big fights don't get made because it's really hard financially but it would get made all of them if the b-side was willing to basically say goodbye to my own promoter and and network i'm just going to cross the street and do the fight on the a-sides terms because that's what dana's saying he's saying yeah we'll do this fight tomorrow but the pfl's got to send their fighter to us and we're going to sign them under our terms meaning francis and we're going to do this so yeah dana you tried to do it but you tried to do it under the old draconian controlling system of which francis

would never agree to come back to after he worked as hard as he did to win a fight with a torn ACL and PCL or MCL or whatever the hell that was and wrestled gone and crawled through the Shawshank Tunnel. So it's disingenuous for him to say that that's the exact criticism he has of boxing, yet he's now doing the exact same thing when he has the fight to make Francis versus John. But like, I think the biggest thing is, Luke, he should just say what the truth is, which is we're not willing to do one-offs with anyone else because they're not going to sign Francis to one fight and bring in the PFL as the co-promoter

and just let what happens. If it's going to happen, Francis has to be under contract with the UFC for a long-ass time under restrictive rules. So if that's your stance, where we're only going to do it, if it completely benefits us, I'm not going to necessarily rail against you, but at least tell the truth at the end of the day, kudos to that, to that guy for at least asking it. I wish he was a little bit more armed and ready to kind of go back and forth and bring up fighter pay and bring up the real reasons why we didn't see that fight.

But, um, yeah, I mean, look next year, this PFL is probably on another network. So it's not going to be just like the ESPN thing where you just snap your fingers and Disney calls and makes it happen. It's not going to be an easy fight to make. And look, I'll tell you right here, unless Francis goes on to win the boxing heavyweight title and just become like the most famous crossover combat sports athlete that we've ever seen, you're not going to see him in the UFC again. You're not going to see John Jones versus Ngannou.

So just at least be honest about that, Dave. Yeah, I mean, I was, listen, as somebody who got dunked on once at a press conference and wasn't prepared for it, I have some sympathy for this reporter. Because if you notice what he does, BC, what he does is he's answering the question. And part of it just gets messed up because I guess Dana's hearing is messed up. So it kind of just interrupts the flow of conversation.

Who knows how he's understanding what people tell him. So that part's just nobody's fault, just the way that it goes. But he turns it immediately confrontational. Rather than you just asking a question and then this person's answering it, now it's you versus me. And I don't think that reporter was prepared for that, and so he kind of got derailed. So I give him a pass. I understand that.

Hold on. We get a lot of people that rip us and say, it's easy for you guys now with your own show. You're not dependent upon going cage side. You're not dependent upon going to these scrums. Oh, would you guys raise your hand and do the same thing? We've done it. I've done it.

Look, I was there at that press conference in New York when I asked Gustafson, the head of the Jones rematch, hey, Alex, you got any issues fighting John knowing his proven history of failing PED tests? I remember you looked over at me across the road. You're like, hey, good luck getting credentialed in the future. You're never interviewing John again. I also, on the, remember the phone call they had when Mayweather McGregor was announced that night?

They had a teleconference? Vaguely, vaguely. I was the one who asked Dana the really hard questions on that about how you said that you would never co-promote. And all that stuff. And you already told me that's the most fucking stupidest question I've ever heard. So I've been up and down the road before here, okay? You know what I'm saying? We've been there.

You can do it. There is a way to do it. Fair enough. what I'm saying like we've been there you can do it there is a way to do it fair enough um but I just wanted to say like I've seen people being like yeah we know I Dana's right I'm just like I will never understand anyone in MMA constantly bragging about how MMA um doesn't have the same to your point doesn't have the same problems as boxing where it's bad as an MMA fan when I watch boxing promoters and boxers not want to work together to make the fights that people want to pay money to see but it's great when my favorite MMA promoter does it I mean the I mean

it's just so inherently contradictory you can bear it's like gobsmacking that someone can hold both views at the same time folks let me explain to you how fight sports works let me just explain to you how it's because i don't think people understand this at any given time in the through the course of history there have been various champions or a group of fighters that the public knew and recognized as like the best or the ones that they cared about this has changed changed over time. This has changed through sports. This has changed through eras. And a lot of it comes now from the sanctioning bodies who, you know, this person's a champion with this one

or he has two belts, right? There's sort of benefit conferred from status there. But at some point, that's what the public does. And the public now, and I think quite rightly, obviously, the public now looks at the UFC fighters and says, okay, these are the ones that we care about the most. The UFC understands this dynamic, which is why the reason they want to keep it so much and how they do it is by making sure the fighters don't have the ability to open the free market and test it and to go to various places, right? They sign to long

term deals. We're not talking about just any old fighter, we're talking about the high end pay per view ones, the ones that are the real difference makers. They sign up to very exclusive deals that make it very, very hard to get rid of, especially if you're a high achiever. It's just hard to do that. And what happens when they can't do that, when a Nate Diaz gets out or when a Francis gets out? Look at the fucking result. Immediately, questions begin to arise of, hey, shouldn't you be working in these other capacities with other promoters to make these fights? That's why they want to keep it under lock and key. What they want to hold is this general public impression that they have the best. And the way they do that is by making sure the very top tier guys don't have freedom of movement. That's the whole show, folks. That's

the whole game. So when someone breaks free and now the equation is different, because basically no one is asking for OAM versus Islam Makachev. No one is asking for that. There's no market for that. There's no demand for it. But when we ask the question, why should UFC do it? Number one, everyone's going to make money. UFC is going to make money. PFL is going to make money. Francis is going to make money. John's going to make money. This is not a losing venture. But the basic point is this. Aside from the fact that the judge in the antitrust case cited in point number two, specifically, specifically the reason why he certified the class is because the UFC doesn't co-promote.

So already there's an antitrust problem with all of this. But the other point is so basic. Folks, as a fan, as an observer, is it in your interest to watch a historically relevant MMA fight be made? Yes. And if you can't ask the dominant promoter in the space to participate in this, what the fuck can you ask for this is the most meaningful way the most meaningful fight that they should be obligated to make and i've got people

going oh they're not going to do it it's not in their interest that's the best way it should be are you out of your fucking mind are you out of your fucking mind that would have been a great counter question for many journalists to raise their hand say hey dan about that topic like do you feel you have a responsibility as the leading promoter to go out of your way to make the kind of fights that you just can't let pass by i mean like right and he would say he would say oh we tried to make it but bc fairness they did try to do it i understand that there was an attempt made but it was partly attached to a contract that, you know, Francis didn't like, and I can understand why he didn't like. It was a lot up front.

It was not great later. And again, he was trying to get his freedom to test the open market. But more to the point, BC, it's a different fight now. Francis is in a different place now. Whatever its value was when they tried to make it, which would have been significant, no doubt about it, it's much bigger than that now it's a new ball game i understand if people just don't want to see francis versus john if you just don't have an interest in that yeah of course you don't want to co-promote if you're a fan of any level of competence or just exposure to the fight game

this is one of the most important fights that can get made in your whole fucking life and the people going yeah they don't have an interest no motherfucker you're just a slave to to their talking points that's it like look i wrote a column last week for cbs sports that was just putting down to words all the kind of fears we've kind of had about this calendar year and what does it mean for the future and you know i got so many direct twitter responses from the dana psycho fans that love ufc and rightfully so. They're just like, oh, man, look at this guy. He's from a sport in boxing where they never make the biggest fights and he's just so sad.

Yet UFC makes them all. Hey, guys, UFC is one promoter in one sport that built their entire model around what is boxing not doing. Let's establish the control because they bought a sport for a promotion for $2 million at a time where the sport was banned. And to their credit, built it up, but build it up with just insane control, abusive control over the fighters. Yeah, boxing, we don't always see the best fights because it's separate promoters with separate network deals, you know, across the globe, but yet we're going to compare that apples to apples with UFC, which is we're asking one promoter one time to, to, to look into the idea of co-promotion. So it's, if that's your comeback that, oh, you're the boxing guy. So you're, you're, you know, no, that's, that doesn't work, right? Boxing is an entirely different business model and set up.

And yet they still find a way to make the fights on time. No, but they still find a way to make those fights happen. So, yeah, there's a lot that I hope changes across the UFC's landscape in the next few years. Luke, there is a lot. I mean, I would just say this too. Lastly, like, yes, I mean, Francis would put PFL on the map a little bit. But the harsh truth, and UFC knows this, is that because they have so many guys under contract and they have them for a long period of time, I don't know if folks really understand this. I've said it before.

Bellator doesn't make money. It's basically gone now from Paramount or soon will be. PFL doesn't make money. One doesn't make money. It is not because these people have no idea how to promote. You might like one better than the other. Of course, that's fine. I'm not saying UFC doesn't do a good job when they want to.

They definitely do. No doubt about it. But the reality here about this situation when we really examine it is, even if they did a one-off, there's no way the PFL would ever be able to compete with UFC, ever. It's literally enshrined in contract to not be possible. What they could do is have a big one-off together. That would be a momentary boost for their fortunes, but never, ever, ever in any kind of way that would challenge

their place in the market. And so when you realize that is the case and you're not getting the fight, listen, if the UFC wants to come out and say, we don't believe it's in our interest to co-promote, let them say that. As a consumer, that's not your interest. It's the opposite of your interest. It's okay to have interests separate from them. Not a scandal. That's all. All right.

Very good. BC, put that behind us now. Before we get to our DMs with donks i want to tell folks like bc when we talk about working out because we know we're trying to we're trying it's for some folks bc winter's hibernation season for us it's going to be cut them up season we're going to be doing the hard work when no one's looking so that by the time the weather gets better but bc you know this as well as i do you might hit a workout plateau you don't know exactly what the right exercises are to pick there can be lots of problems when you start to get healthy again right yeah it could like it's not unfair to

say you want a regimen that'll keep you on your toes you want something new and fresh that'll you know take away the boredom how about this how about you check out this great app called fit bod f-i-t-b-o-d it's the app that creates a personalized workout routine for you that adapts to your workouts to keep you on track. It takes your goals, your fitness level, everything else. It keeps your regimen fresh. Luke, it's like having a personal trainer in the palm of your hand. That's not a bad deal. It's really not. No, it's not. And what I want folks to know is what you want is something personalized to you. What works for Brian may not work for me and vice versa. We don't have the same needs. We don't have the same injuries. We don't have the

same goals. What I want is something that is personalized to me and then can follow me along where I might be hitting some great progress and maybe not in some other ones. It can get me to both places with individualized routines as well as adaptations for progress over time. And as you make improvements, the app makes improvements to your workouts to help you continue to make those gains with FitBot's powerful technology. It understands your strength training ability. It studies your past workouts. It adapts to the available gym equipment you have. I got a bench and some weights in my basement, Luke, but FitBot figures out the best way for me to take my fitness to the next level. And of course you can track your achievements. You can learn new

exercises. There's so much you can do with this app that adapts to what you have, what you are, and where you want to go. So here's what we want you guys to do. Download FitBod today and get a headstart on your fitness resolutions. Get 25% off your subscription and get a head start on your fitness resolutions get 25 off your subscription and get three free personalized workouts when you go to fitbod.me slash combat 25 off free and personalized workouts f-i-t-b-o-d dot m-e slash combat combat with a k and okay if you're still in the game i always say this to our male listeners out there if you're still in the game, I always say this to our male listeners out there. If you're still in the game and you're not taking care of yourself,

it's one thing to be a washed dad. Luke, I've been married for 16 years. I don't need abs, right? But if you're still in the game, step your game up, bitch. Dude, and also just this. If you don't use the muscles that you need, you'll lose them. And one thing, if I can just be totally serious, I've been researching like what defines quality of life after 65 for men.

And there's many things, you know, did you smoke? Do you drink? Blah, blah, blah. Lifestyle, sleep. But BC, do you know what the number one determinant is for how ambulatory you can be? It is how much muscle mass you have. Muscle mass. So many guys don't take care of themselves.

Then they get old and now you need a cane and now you can't get it back. Use it while you have muscle mass so many guys don't take care of themselves then they get old and now you need a cane and now you can't get it back use it while you have it maintain build be healthy so by the time 65 does roll around you're ready to go you can still hang out with the grandkids the whole nine yards so all right bc with that in mind it's time now for the donks to ask us questions it's time for DMs from dogs. Yeehaw. All right, BC from Joshua Does Jiu-Jitsu. I wonder what his personality is all about. We often ask the question, quote, How would a person's ability translate up one or down multiple weight classes?

In the case of Aspinall, how many weight classes down do you think his skill set would translate provided cutting weight wasn't an issue so definitely down to 205 at 185 I think it would start to slow down a little bit what do you think yeah he'd die at 185 but the question the real question skill set the skill set uh well I mean I think the skill set would be great if he's able to cut down because he's got such big power and speed. I mean, would it be affected maybe to some degree? But I think the question within the question right now for this man who usually fights around, what, the 240s, but he came in high 250s on short notice here. Is it actually possible, not that he even needs to entertain it right now,

but is it actually possible that he can cut down to 205 in your eyes, Luke? Well, that's not what they're asking. They're just asking what if a 205-er had asking, what if a 205-er had his skill set or a 185-er had his skill set? All right, when we're talking about as well-rounded as he is, I think that skill set could do great at middleweight and light heavyweight

if he could physically make it. Yeah, the buck stops at 170 for sure. I think he might encounter problems at 185, but definitely somebody like him could do well at 205 as well, yes. Do you think he can make it, though? He's a jacked dude, right? No, fuck no.

Dude, he's walking around naturally around 260-ish and probably off-camp 270, 280. No, no fucking chance. No more weight cutting. One day somebody's going to perish, Luke. They already have. I remember when the guy from one died, and they changed the whole system they had.

All right, two, BC from Fisher Aiden. I asked a few weeks ago if Alex won the title, would he have a better MMA, I think, career so far than Izzy? After his win on Saturday, whose career is better so far? It's a great question.

Wow. What do you think, BC? I mean, there's so many more names on Adesanya's resume. Are we taking into account... I mean, who's the more decorated kickboxer? Definitely Pereira, right? Definitely Pereira, yeah. and he beat izzy twice so uh if we're talking

about combat sports in general he wins what if we're just talking mma has i mean is he's got more you know he's got title defenses he's got multiple wins over important names i mean he beat winnaker twice what do you get what do you more? His time on top as the pound-for-pound king and definitive champion of a great division? Or are you going to give it to this Johnny-come-lately who has two world titles and seven UFC fights? I don't know. Here's one thing you can definitely say.

Who was a better middleweight? Izzy. Izzy was a much better middleweight. About that, there can be no doubt. I mean, just not the names he beat, including, most recently recently Alex himself. He had multiple title defenses. He beat different generations and types of fighters. He was a much better middleweight.

But it gets complicated BC. When now he's got two fucking titles. And two weight classes. When Izzy failed at that. So the story is not over yet. I want to see how everything evolves. Because obviously if Izzy fights him again and then loses again that would change it but if he wins and he becomes the champ

well then you could just easily say it was Izzy I mean I would still say Izzy because yeah I don't know I don't know the only thing I can confidently say is that Izzy was a much better middleweight about that there's no denying. After that, I don't know. Some fans on X, in response to me wanting a third MMA Izzy fight at 205 against Poet Time, basically saying, and I want to get your reaction to this, Luke, why the hell would Izzy fight this guy at 205? He would have zero advantages at that weight class.

For the glory. It may not be just a function of what the advantages are. It might be a function of, it's a chance for a belt against a storied rival in a fight of massive consequence. Like that alone would get it versus, I do agree. The chances for him are better at 185 than 205, but I don't know what it is he wants.

I just don't know. I don't know how that's going to go. You should him you should text him uh yeah i should i'm sure he'll get right on that all right bc from n stem oh good question what happened to usman nurmagomedov bc so over the weekend uh it was revealed i think reported first by ariel hawani and then later some other places uh picked it up so there was a flag on one of the drug tests for Usman Nurmagomedov, who was up until this point the Bellator 155 champion. The CSAC did confirm that they suspended him. However, they only suspended him for six months. And what they also confirmed was he had a prescription for it.

He just failed to disclose it up front. So they gave him about as brief a suspension as they're going to he can he did lose his title in the fight get against um premise i guess gets overturned to a no contest but he is going to try and get back in the tournament and then um compete all the way through your reaction to what happened yeah the immediate news was that he was what stripped of the title pulled from the tournament premise would move into the finals to face the winner of Chablis against, who's his opponent, Luke?

I don't even know. All right. Ali Abdelaziz, manager of the Stars, did come out on social media and basically say, like, we're going to get this fixed. It's, you know, it's this, it's that. It's not a big deal. He'll be in that fight. He'll be back in that tournament.

So we'll have to wait and see. Is this, though, like a disturbing update on a guy who looks like so ready right now to take over yeah it kind of sucks but luke is this similar is this do you think this is closer to the myra bueno silva it's exactly the same so in this case is this the this is like a new category that we're dealing with where yeah they got popped yeah they made a minor mistake but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're covering up ped use or i mean listen people people are insane right so what they'll do is um for whatever reason i don't fully understand it but the nurmagomedovs are polarizing to an extent they have extreme loyalty among a certain part of the fan base and then there's another part of the fan base that can't stand them the reality is this um

folks if the california commission is giving you a six month suspension for um some kind of drug infraction that's about as small as they can give it like that tells you it's merely administrative in nature um so this idea that like oh they caught him on steroids or something like that there's no fucking way possible that they give him a six month suspension for anything that pharmaceutical high grade not in any way possible um so i don't really think it's that big a deal but folks are going to take any kind of news like this and then then decide oh well these guys are all on steroids because i want them to be because i don't like them already and i'm going to not have reading comprehension in any of these stories hell i'm not even going to read them to begin with and then just decide headlines equal steroids it just sort of i mean basically if

anyone is coming out here and being like i knew it all these guys were blah blah blah but they're just telling you i haven't done any good faith interpretation of this. I just don't like these fucking guys. So this is how I feel. There it is. You nailed it. Yep, that's it. And for some reason, I lost. I hope he clears his name, Luke.

I love that guy. It's true. That's great. BC, I'm going to ask this question. I got to fix my headphones real quickly. So it's Nicholas asks, by the end of 2024 2024 which country will have the most reigning champions across all weight classes male and female currently we have 3x usa 2x uk by the way first time in ufc history we've had two english champions at the same time big achievement for them 2x brazil one australia one china one mexico and one dagasan over to ubc while i fix my

headphones i think dagasan is part of russia last time i checked uh could it be the u.s One Australia, one China, one Mexico, and one Dagestan. Over to UBC while I fix my headphones. I think Dagestan is part of Russia, last time I checked. Could it be the U.S.? Is this a renaissance period for the good old U.S. of A? Because I might start wearing stars and stripes on my shirts again, Luke, and not be afraid at what you think that does to the legacy of the flag. It does. Look, I think Brazil is going to have another rush. Obviously, U.K. is really showing a lot of potential here. France, too, by the flag. It does. Look, I think Brazil is going to have another rush. Obviously, UK is really showing a lot of potential here. France too, by the way. I mean, Faroe, Saint-Denis,

Gannes, and Gannes-Nul. I don't know though, Luke. I don't know what's going to happen. These belts change hands all the damn time. Nobody can keep it for a long time anymore. I don't know, but could this be a, I mean, we haven't seen an american revolution in mma since since rasslin was the main foundation right matt hughes benton north iowa no no no chris weidman was like the update to that a guy who could wrestle and then also strike you know rockhold too yeah uh all right i don't know what do you think luke i don't i don't um i don't know who the next english champion would be i don't think i see that brazil is always going to be in the running usa are going to always be in the running australia australia's got some up-and-comers that's an interesting one maybe i mean mexico's turning it around quick i mean mexico as well china's not ready although yan

shanan but yan shanan would have to beat zhong wiley so you would get an another chinese champion but not at the same time. And then Russia, Russia is always going to be in the fucking ball game. It's the question is not that the question is like, aside from these like, you know, powerhouses.

And then you've got like China listed in there. What other country that's not a powerhouse, like Spain might have Ilya Teporia, France might have Cyril gone or so. Are you going to, but that's just one, just one, you know, if you're going to have multiple Yeah, but that's just one. Just one. If you're going to have multiple champs, look out for Mexico.

Because, dude, people are popping up on a world-class level left and right. Anyone coming out of that gym? Is that the Lobo gym that Danny Segura visited, Luke? That gym's on fire. What does Lobo mean in Spanish, BC? I have no idea. Wolf. Wolf.

Remember Rebecca Lobo? That's right basketball player right yeah she lives a couple towns from me luke i think she still works at espn she was a hero in these parts of connecticut i bet i bet yeah all right from a a ron uh if i could choose a walkout song for any ufc fighter i'd go with, which is by Pantera, for Matt Brown. LT, what slightly, likely slightly disturbing but fitting song would you choose for Pineda? BC, what way too soft song would you choose for Aspinall? BC, you go first on this one. So why does Aspinall have to have a way too soft song?

Can't he have like a badass classic rock song from the UK? All right, pick one. Pick one. Can't he come out to like Hush by deep purple or something luke i mean come on right that's badass hush hush thought i heard you calling my name now hush you don't like that song luke that song i didn't say i didn't like it but i wouldn't describe it as badass all right how about some blue oyster cult no luke what do you want you probably got something and that involves like cult rock and you know you know what um by the way you know it's a punk band i've kind of gotten into a little bit that a bit more like a hardcore band

um uh trapped under ice trapped under ice is legit. I do like Trapped Under Ice. All right. What about, there's actually a Metallica cover of the Misfits song. I got something to say. I killed your baby today and it doesn't matter much to me. I'm really not into that kind of theme, the themes that you're going with there, Luke. Yeah, but like, okay, I don't know.

Oh, you know what? Easy. Easy one for the Brazilian. How about about roots bloody roots by sepultura sepultura was a brazilian uh heavy metal band and roots bloody roots is like a sick fucking song um i like that did you see the walkouts over the weekend uh favola came out to the horn friendly new york mets closer thing yeah you know it was funny i had a bunch of european people asking me like dude what song is that it was so great i'm like all right i guess the mets closer song is hot in europe what about the uh who came out to that canelo uh song oh uh diego lopez

uh it's uh santa fe clan and um um some other fucking guy but yeah canelo walked out with santa fe clan at the germel charlo fight which was sick super sick um i saw that matt brown by the way posted videos he's learning the bass now luke so he posted some some bass videos along with his thrashing on the renaissance man renaissance yeah i love matt brown he's great all right i gotta get through this shit luke because i got a great interview with andre let's roll let's hit it all right i scoured the globe yesterday hi lo good bad all that BS. Here's my shit of the week. I hope you...

Oh, God. Oh. You've got... AIDS. Shitty male viewers. All right, Luke. UFC 295 from MSG. This is dedicated to Poetan.

To the champ goes the spoils. Watch Alex Pereira house this pizza pie afterwards, Luke. Okay? First, he's going to attack one slice. Then he's going to combine them together to make a Brazilian sandwich. What do you think of this? So far, so good. Oh, yeah.

That's the fat guy move. I mean, he's not a fat guy, but that's the fat guy move i mean he's not a fat guy but that's the fact get manly i bet you a guy like him who walks around so much bigger can just destroy food after the fights could he eat a whole pizza in one go i'm going to say yes he wouldn't need my fat guy trip trip trick at the train station he'd just go right through the pie right away luke haired pie right now the 80s were great right yeah okay hey let's keep it going here uh he had the coldest call out let's listen oh god uh luke jamal hill gave an instant reaction to the stoppage of mark goddard

after perera won let's hear it oh well whoever it is y'all know where the crown really is it's right here look that's people got bitter at him for that and i don't understand why why would you get mad about a fighter being confident and believing he's still the champ since he didn't actually lose the title? I'm all in. He survived that really bad bus ride. You see, they ran into protesters Friday night in Manhattan.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Glad it all worked out without someone getting hurt. Absolutely. Also, Luke, Pereira, the scariest MF-er in combat sports these days. Here's the pic backstage at the weigh-in. This is awesome. Luke, what is this? I don't know what this is called or whatever,

but authentic expressions of culture like this are the absolute fucking best. That's what I think. Yes. But it wasn't without catching strays. Jan Blachowicz came at Poetan over the Twitter. Let's see what he said. He said, I know you're a came at Poetan over the Twitter. Let's see what he said. He said, I know you're a slimy one,

calling out Izzy. Great performance and all, but shut the F up. We have unfinished business, you and I. The judges won't give you handouts next time. Pathetic. Wow. I didn't expect that from Jan, right? That's a little strong, the pathetic side. I didn't think it was quite pathetic, but

your mileage may vary. All right, elsewhere at 295, hey, Lupe Godinez, despite that crappy That's a little strong, the pathetic side. I didn't think it was quite pathetic. No, I didn't think so either. All right, elsewhere at 295. Hey, Lupe Godinez, despite that crappy third scorecard from Brian Miner, had a really nice win over Baby Shark. What do you think of the dance, Luke? Yeah, that's how I clean the floor. That's what I do. I don't know what this is called.

I don't know. I like it. I'm guessing it's some kind of cultural dance. I do not know. Yeah, all right. How about the respect shown between Aspinall and Pavlovich during the referee instructions? This was weird.

Did you like it? No, I didn't. But it reminded me of how you refused to hug me. And then these two guys fist fought. And they gave each other a hug, BC. So what do you have to say about that? Yeah, it's weird. It's weird.

I'd love to talk to Dan Marigliata about how many uh small restrooms on foreign soil he's just absolutely destroyed look like big john styles just just just blowing up the commode you know he has those stories in him can we get him on the show you think yeah let's ask him how many times he's taken a shit in a foreign country all right hey jared gordon had an inspirational speech afterwards about heroin in penn station but look at the brutal finish of marco madsen that set it up yeah this was nice with the clinch that left collar tie comes right over the top and then blows him away here bc let me tell the folks a true story about penn station like when you want to know how gross it is yeah

one time walked into the bathroom at penn station and there was a homeless guy shaving his pubes in the sink. So enjoy that. True story. All right, your punch of the week, Luke, doesn't come from MMA. It comes from the Texas A&M game. Oh, sorry, we got one more for you. Here's Diego Lopez's. Let's give him some flowers, Luke.

What a brutal finish. Yo, not only did he get the KO, he got the KO with seven haircuts at the same time. We'll be seeing more on this segment about his chest tap, but that's a great win. He's fun as shit. What a year for him. I love it.

Punch of the week comes from this Texas A&M lineman who was ejected for this move. Oh, snap. Wow, the uppercut to the pills that is lane kiffin did not like that one wow my man kind of stood there a little bit you know what i mean like he could have moved along he he he was all right hey big week for farting luke you ever try this party trick? This man is an American hero, and I can tell he's American because of how disgusting and awful he is. And I love him. I love him.

All right, let's continue this segment. But on the MMA mats with some jiu-jitsu. For a second, but this move is going to work fall into position go ahead and hook turn the arm around getting here now fortunately for me i'm ready for this because last night i had about four cans of baked beans a half pound of curry and a whole side of smoked halibut. So my gastrointestinal system is fully loaded, and he's in perfect position for a little move I like to call in the same studio as you right there exactly like that you're welcome.

Yeah. Let's check in on the old stars and stripes. Look, I want you to just comment. Javier Vasquez siding in the back there, by the way. Oh, really? Is this an acceptable use of the stars and stripes? At this basketball game, they didn't have a flag, so they used that guy's Zubaz pants. You down with that?

Just shut down the whole school and burn it to the ground. I mean, absolute. You know, it's a meeting of Al-Qaeda as far as I'm concerned. Total disrespect to our country and flag. Is this an acceptable use of the flag at this Alaskan festival? What the fuck are they doing? Celebrating America, obviously, Luke. Okay.

All right. You know what i mean i just love how like doing outrageously dumb shit has become like american uh like this this is very american it's like why because they're doing like real dumb shit i don't know yeah pretty much that pretty much well they did dumb shit in jamaica over the weekend 55 year old james tony boxed 59 year old donovan razor ruddick who had some serious moobs going on, Luke. I don't know who sanctioned this. I don't like it at all.

Well, I guess they're still showing titties on pay-per-view, huh? Oh, boy. I mean, they didn't fight that bad in these highlights, but, dude, this is just CTE on top of CTE. People are like, it's not that big a deal. It's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, guys, I'm not saying they're going to go to the hospital. I'm saying they're here because so many things have gone wrong in their life. Yeah.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Well, speaking of sad, let's watch this Uber delivery driver here, Luke. Oh, sorry. Instacart shopping. All right. I'm not. All right.

All right. I'm not going to. Okay. I mean, that was a bad tumble. Okay. That was a bad tumble. I don't want to mock the Instacart shopper that's a hard job bro okay all right luke uh will you mock david goggins at all i like to get a bunch of men together men that are the hardest of the hard and i want to be with these men'd like to get a bunch of men together.

Men. That's right. I guess that explains why he hangs out with Tony. I don't know. Hey, I can't judge. Whatever gets him hard. You know what I'm saying? Wow.

Hey, let's get a wellness check on Teofimo. Are you Teofimo? I thought you was retired. You a garbage man now yeah they pay better oh that's a very funny bit brian that's a very funny bit i don't get it though what is he doing dude his like he'll do these zings on twitter and you'll read it 10 times and not know what he's saying i get you i get you all right we got to keep going here i got a busy schedule no shortage of star power luke at 295 how about opposites attracting here gordon ryan and jeff novitsky of uh of uh usada fame with yes very funny photo i like this one a lot legitimately

i got a good laugh all right some speculation that Stipe entered the arena on Saturday, limping or at least walking like an old man. What are your thoughts? Yeah, just walking like the oldest old man that ever olded. Look at this guy. He's 41, 42. What do you expect him to walk like? All right.

Luke, this will probably be the last time that Bill Burr gets prime seating at a UFC event. Here's his wife, actress Nina Renee Hill, giving the double bird to old Don as Kid Rock walked by. And I saw people being like, I'm never going to listen to Bill Burr again. I'm like, first of all, he didn't do that. And then second of all, you're full of shit.

Of course you are. Stop lying. It was good to see Kid Rock at a UFC event. Last time we saw him, Luke, he was out here shooting up UFC's new sponsor. You know? I got to say, BC, I think he showers as infrequently as you and I do. We both dress the same each day.

That's definitely true. That's definitely true. Do you think they talk Bud Light with Dana or no? They don't talk. No, they just talked a bunch of dumb shit. It probably was the worst conversation ever, but God bless him. There it is right there. All right.

We haven't had any skateboard fatalities in a while let's go to san francisco go fast go fast go fast go fast no oh god oh god oh oh boy oh it's like guys uh you have to clear the road ahead of time yeah yeah yeah that didn't work out all right your regional ko the week comes from uh i think russia it's a promotion called eichel manas fc and that's amanoff asan oh jesus the pile driver wow that's the end of that fight yep is the ref not wearing shoes oh yeah no he's not the ref's not even wearing shoes what do you think of that no no gloves and bare feet luke you're done with that for a ref that is extremely sanitary that's what i know all right t-shirts of the week time would you hang out with this

young lady knowing this information all right well she's a disgusting creature i mean just throw her off the boat wherever she is and just let her sink to the bottom of the ocean. All right, we got one t-shirt better than that. We found it at the gas station. Last night is a blur. I remember sucking titties and then shitting myself. He seems like a classy gentleman, you know? All right, it's time to rate that tat, Luke. Here we go.

Here's Terrence McKinney of UFC fame has a new back tat. It's unfinished, so I think there is something to be said about waiting, but I don't love it. It looks like the Sarlacc pit on Return of the Jedi. I don't know if I like it. I'll reserve judgment when it's finally done, but I just don't love the concept.

But look, if he likes it, that's what's most important. We know you love turtles, Luke. What do you think of this TMNT tattoo? Again, I wouldn't want it, but the color saturation and the overall design is spectacular. That's a very good tattoo. That's really, really, really good. Wow. You know what?

I wouldn't want that, but if they could do that to me during my colonoscopy, I might sign up for it. It would take a lot longer than 30 minutes, my guy. All right. All right. Let's go to a different leg tat, Luke. Is this your sort of thing? Can we advance to the next slide? Again, wouldn't want it, but that is an extremely good tat.

Yeah. I mean, this whole sleeve is 10 out of 10. Wow. I wonder if it hits the ashtrack at all. All right. Here is Diego Lopez's updated chest tat that says, Dream, Believe, and Make It Happen. Yeah, I mean, people are just scribbling on him. This is a terrible tattoo, unfortunately.

All right. It's 3 out of 10, 2 out of 10. You won't find a dad who likes Fortnite more than me, except for this guy. All right. Well, this guy should just lose custody of his children. I mean, he's the worst person in America. OG Fortnite is back for a limited time, okay?

Nothing says Fortnite is uncool more than this. All right. All right. Luke, so you want to be a game-bred, bare-knuckle MMA fighter? Let's listen in with Hick Diaz. To show everybody my face, it ain't quite as bad as it looked last night. I got quite a few stitches.

Broke this bone right here, a little orbital bone or whatever, the bottom part of it, and right around in here from what the CT scan showed. Most importantly, I swallowed a tooth last night, and that's kind of my biggest concern right now, wondering if it's going to scratch on the way out or whatever.

But I'm surprisingly in zero pain, and that's with no pain pills or none of that shit i got up and i walked out of that cage last night unlike some of those pussies that got brought out on a stretcher so i feel good about that not only did i walk out but i drove myself to the hospital to get stitched up my head's held high thank you tough business we live in here, Luke. That's Jason Knight, of course. Game bread MMA. Roy Nelson got robbed.

Looks like he fought a lawnmower. Yeah. Soccer celebration of the week as we quickly exit out of here, Luke. Two more to go. What do you think of this? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I gave him the old honk. This how bc and i greet each other right here

just the old honk oh luke we once had a debate on this program about breastfeeding in public but this gentleman has found a way to win the internet on this day that's a little much that man is a hero to me and all dads out there, Luke. A real family man. And that is your shit of the week. Very good. Well, I know you have to get out of here because you have a big interview, so let's just remind folks.

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everyone who watched today. So for everyone at CBS Sports, everyone at Showtime, everyone at Malka, thank you so much. Thanks to everyone who watched. We'll catch you guys on Wednesday. Follow us on social at all the places that you possibly can. And until next time, may all of your gains be loyal.