MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Ray Longo Explains the Secret to Making UFC Champions | Room Service Diaries

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

Room Service Diaries is Back as Ray Longo sits down on the couch with the boys to break down his legendary career. Ray discusses the potential of an Aljamain Sterling vs. Merab Dvalishvili fight, How he got into coaching and shares some INSANE stories.  (2:00) - Aljamain Sterling vs. Henry Cejudo (5:35) - Aljamain Sterling   (8:50) - Henry Cejudo (12:11) - Merab Dvalishvili   (20:00) - Aljamain Sterling vs. Merab Dvalishvili  (24:10) - Who is Ray Longo?  (26:00) - Coaching in Combat Sports  (31:00) - Whitey Ford Story  (32:00) - Back to 1980  (34:50) - Matt Serra  (42:15) - Insane Matt Serra Story  (46:30) - Matt Serra vs. GSP  (53:20) - Chris Weidman  (57:11) - Bigger Celebratory win   (61:40) - Key Factors for Coaching (64:00) - Matt Frevola   (66:30) - Long Island  (71:00) - Coaching Hall of Fame   (73:50) - Power Slap League  (75:20) - TRT Vitor vs. Chris Weidman (76:40) - Douglas Crosby   Morning Kombat is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher and wherever else you listen to podcasts.     For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit:morning kombat.store   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Rise to rewards with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card. Terms and conditions apply. Hey, how you doing? I'm Ray Longo. We're here in Jersey City to chop it up with Luke Thomas. It's nice to see you. How are you? Brian Campbell, it's a pleasure to meet you. I was actually told absolutely nothing about the interview, just if I would do it.

This might be the weirdest thing I ever did. Here we go. It's obvious, guys, actually. You know what I mean? He just won't stop. Let's go inside and do it. You know, we talk to all kinds of people on this show, and today we are as excited as ever

because sitting with us on the couch is not just a winning coach or one of the most winningest coaches in MMA history. Truly, I mean this, one of the very best to ever do it and still going strong. Wow. It is Long Island's finest. Why don't you just make out with him already? Why don't you make out with him? It's Ray Longo. I'll tell you, we're certainly close enough.

BC, true story, before the show started, he wanted to sit and raise laughs. It was like, you know, we just met. Can we establish boundaries before we move forward? The producers do this to us. They turn us into absolute goons. It is nice to see you, Ray. How are you? It's nice to see you, too, and nice to see you.

Thank you, Coach Ray. I already like him. I listened to him for the first five minutes. This guy's a pisser. The next five will be terrible. I feel like, wait, is it me? I feel like he's Tom Hanks in big. Yeah, yeah.

What am I doing here? Talk to these people. Talk to them. I did this thing because Luke's an intelligent guy. I like listening to you guys talk. And now I feel like, I don't know what the hell. I don't know. I mean, look, is this going to be the worst decision I've made?

It's going to be one of them. It was either us or the schmo. But you could get lost in that couch, Coach. Do you have something like this in your basement today? I hope the answer is yes. Definitely no. Definitely no. I have a couch. You're like, it's actually my upstairs living room. It looks like this. No, you matter of fact,

in the basement, there is a couch similar to this. I take that back. How are you feeling now? We're just days removed here, but not even, I guess a week now, a week since UFC 288. You've got to be feeling pretty great. I feel great, man. I feel great. I feel blessed. I'm

grateful for everything, you know, but hey, I want to brag, it ain't my first rodeo. He does his breed champions over there, as said, Sarah Longo. It does get crazy as it goes on, but I'm really so happy for Aljo because I watched this kid mature from the first day he walked in the gym into where he is now, and I think it's just great to see. And, you know, over the weekend, Sarah was there, Weidman was there.

So, you know, we took a couple of pictures, all three guys are champions. All their towns connect to each other. They're all within three miles of the gym. It's crazy. We've got a good little story going on over there, and I'm just proud to be a part of it, and that these guys still

haven't thrown me out yet. Not yet. Let me just ask, when they went to the judges and they had it split, how nervous were you? I was more mad than nervous. I thought it was unanimous, and in my head I'm saying, please do not fuck this kid. You know, look, I could tell you from being in the corner, we never felt any danger. You could go back to talking. The only thing, like matt made a

great correction optics were bad on the ground but no damage i mean he out the the uh stats are all in al joe's favor like i think it's decisively unanimous and you know so i'm by to answer your question i was i was i was pissed that that was my first emotion i was like please don't do this to this kid and thank god the right guy won it. Could you see the argument for Henry Cejudo in this fight? It was a technical masterpiece of close back and forth. I'm going to say, look, it's one of those fights where the rounds are close, but you can't give it to Henry.

I just, as a coach, like when I was looking, I haven't even looked at the fight again because I didn't want to look at it. I wanted to just keep whatever I had in my head, you know, so I could talk like from that standpoint. But during the fight, I thought Aljo was ahead. I think maybe that's why I was mad. I would have felt like a complete idiot if he didn't get that nod. I'm up 3-0, and I really felt like there were a few obvious close rounds,

which is why it ended up being a split decision i do feel like so hudo came on late there just wasn't enough overall yeah 100 look i think so hudo was completely confused right i mean let's just go back he said he would stop him and within three he said if it stood up he was going to knock him out he didn't come close to anything so you could see him mentally he was breathing heavy but the competitor in Henry Cejudo which he's an unbelievable competitor kept him driving and pushing forward but he had no answers to what was going on I thought he was reaching with his punches he looked slower than he did in the previous fights I thought he was going to be quicker on the entries he He had trouble getting near Aljo.

He just, I think he says it. I really admire Henry. I love the way his reaction was to after the fight. He doesn't look like a guy that won. He definitely doesn't feel he won. I don't believe, you know, he even said like, well, if it comes down to the fifth round, then, you know, I guess I won.

Like, you know, he's like, you're maneuvering everything. But what about the guy that scored it for you? He's completely wrong. We're attacking Derek Cleary. Oh, Derek Cleary, yeah. Right, right, you know, he's like, you're maneuvering everything. But what about the guy that scored it for you? He's completely wrong. We're attacking Derek Cleary. Oh, Derek Cleary. Right, right. You know what I mean? But the only guy that scored two and three for you, I totally disagree with.

And you love judges. You have this long history of just getting along. Oh, yeah. Before we get to that real quickly. Oh, yeah. What is it? Because they're, so Al Jermaine was one of the top prospects. And then like anyone else, he had a couple of road bumps in the middle.

But then since then, he's had this incredible growth and reinvention. Tell me from your perspective, what makes Aljamain great as a fighter? And then secondly, why do some people fail to recognize that? Okay, so I'm going to say what makes Aljo great is Aljo.

Aljo is his own person. He's got his own style. He walked into the gym. He was the funk master right away. I think we really did a great job on enhancing his attributes that he had and making him better. But, you know, Luke, a lot of times it comes down to just confidence, right? And I think what you're seeing now is a real confident guy.

That's why he's a problem. Technically, he could do things nobody could do. I still say this. There's things I see a problem. Technically, he could do things nobody could do. I still say this. There's things I see in the gym that he still hasn't done that if he does them, he's got to get comfortable with doing them, you know what I mean, in the fight. But I think Aljo is Aljo. He's his own person.

I don't even want to take any credit for anything, but I think I've been a good mentor to him and mentor to him and, you know, guide him in the right direction with a couple of things. And, uh, but technically, man, we tighten up what he could do really good. We worked, I do that with everybody. What are your attributes? You know, like people talk about game plans. What's the game plan if you have to take a guy down, but you're not a wrestler, that's the game plan, but you can't do it. So you have to know your athlete, what he can and can't do. And I think that's where we did a great job with Aljo.

Why I think the people don't like him, they just don't like his style. They don't get it. But here's the thing, Coach. Yeah. His opponents keep sleeping on him. They 100%. They keep sleeping on him. Yeah, it's nothing for us media donks to miss out,

but the opponents at this level. It's like I'm honestly shocked that every time they're like, wow, that was tougher than I thought. I'm like, okay, why do they keep saying that? I think because when you look at him, he's not a conventional boxer. You know, he's not Sugar Ray Leonard. You know, he's got his own thing. Not getting knockouts at the hand lift, right?

And I think from the outside looking in, it looks like you could capitalize on a lot of things. And I told this to Aljo. Henry will go back to that fight and go, man, I could have did A, B, and C. He knows it. But he didn't, you know, for whatever reason. But then Aljo would have adjusted to that. You know, that's the point we leave out.

But, yeah, he just doesn't look, he's not a conventional fighter. He's his own guy. That's what I say. That's what makes him Aljo. And actually, man, he's way harder to hit. And they were telling him, you know, why isn't he just elbowing? You know, he's way harder to hit. And they were telling him, you know, why isn't he just elbowing? You know, he's moving his head. Like all of that stuff that optically looked bad in the fight,

and I think Sarah did a great job with, like, the old force thing's got to go. It just doesn't look good. You're not getting hurt. And Aljo, you know, so I think optically, you know, like, again, it didn't look good. And Henry kind of said, like, I couldn't do nothing. Like, I see him do that shit in the gym all the time. So to me, it's normal.

Like, to other people, when he's down there moving his head, it looks crazy. You don't see that a lot from people on all fours. So I don't know. I don't know if I answered the question. But I think that's, he's just not a conventional-looking fighter. And I think he's always going to have problems if you don't know what you're looking at. And I think people look at him. He's dipping his head.

They think they could get him. And then when they're in there with him, they can't find him. And then that causes frustration for them. And I think that's what you see. Oh, I thought it was smart that you guys jumped all over Cejudo off the start in the first round. Like, if there's any— A hundred percent. If there's any ring rust, if there's anything that needs adjusting.

Yeah, let's find out now. Let's go right at him. A hundred percent. You know, it's a five-round if there's anything that needs adjusting. Yeah, let's find out now. I'll just go right at him, 100%. You know, it's a five-round fight. You're in good shape. He has, you know, let's not let him get his feet wet and, you know, start building up. And what I told Aljo after the first round, I was like, Aljo, he doesn't want to, he wants to fight at his own pace. Trust me. He doesn't want to come at it because he's, you know, Henry, if you study like Henry, like he really believes what he's saying, which is a good thing.

But when it doesn't happen, right, then you have that cognitive dissonance, I think what they call, like where you're expecting something to happen. It doesn't happen. Then what do you do? And I think that's what happened to Henry. But I think in Henry's head, he was beating Aljo, he was beating O'Malley, he was beating Volkanovski, 100%. And he deserves that. He's a gold medal winner. He's got a great mindset.

I like the guy. Respect Henry a lot. I think who I respect more than Henry is his freaking wife at this point. Are you talking about Eric Albarracin, the captain? No. Because that's what I'm talking about. His real wife. No, that guy. Look, he seems like a nice guy, but I don't understand one thing the guy's talking about Eric Albarracin, the captain? No. Because that's what I'm talking about. His real wife. No, that guy.

Look, he seems like a nice guy, but I don't understand one thing that guy's talking about. Just don't talk with him on WhatsApp. Oh, live messages. His clothing is very loud, although I have a lot of respect for the captain. He'll send you drunken messages. They're fun. That's crazy. No, but you point out effectively so that you knew you were going in there against a mental giant.

Yeah, yeah. Who's got a track record of adjusting. That final adjustment never came out to never let him. And I think that's the key. And that could have been the three years too. You know what I mean? And I do think as good as he is, and I want to see the guy fight, I think he's going to have a hard time as each month goes by or each year goes by to be the Henry he thinks he is.

Look, I deal with these guys. They never think they're done. Not that he's done, but he's not the Henry he was five years ago. And that's where, in his head, that's what he sees. He sees the Henry of five years ago, and then when you get in there and things ain't going as good, you're not steamrolling Dillashaw or Cruz or Marlin. What do I do?

Now I've got to figure out this puzzle, and then I'm getting fucking kicked, and then he's going for a takedown, and God forbid he takes me down. I'm the Olympic medal winner. You got to play to those mental games. I go, Aljo, if you buy into this gold medal shit, you lost the fight already.

I don't give a shit, you know. You can wrestle. You have jujitsu and wrestling. He's got a funky style of grappling, man. You make one wrong move and he's on your back, he's a major problem. He's one of the best guys,

him, Charles Oliveira, two of the better guys in the sport where maybe they get a takedown, but if they don't, they just create

back exposure and it's curtains for you after that. Yeah, he's a major, major problem, you know? And as much as we respect, I mean,

we definitely respect it, Henry, but you got to take the fight to him. You got to find out. Let's just, you know, three years is a long time. Especially at 135. Yeah, oh, 100%. The little guys have, you know, it's not Dan Henderson where he's always got that power up until he hits you once at 50,

you're going out, you know. He still can hit you. But the little guys, no, they don't have that luxury, you know, because the speed and endurance. For sure. I give Henry a lot of credit, but I still think he can operate at a very high level. But speaking of operating, you operated on him game plan-wise for this fight. Are you going to do it again with Murab?

I mean, what's going on here? No, Murab, you just, you know, you wind him up. First off... Because you might be seeing Suhudo a second time coming. Yeah, true. I see the difference. That fight will be, first off, Murab will fight him in the pocket, too.

You know what I mean? He doesn't give a shit. And he's going to, you know, he might stop the first 10 takedowns, but there's another 40 coming. That's why I say the biggest thing with that fight, which I told, I think, his manager, five rounds or he doesn't fight.

Forget the three rounds where, you know, you could eke it out. This guy can go, he can go seven rounds. So give him the five rounds, let Henry deal with that pressure. I don't think he's, it doesn't look like, I mean, you're a boxing guy. It looks like he lost a step on the boxing. A little bit, yeah. Right?

Because I told Al, I go, you're a boxing guy. It looks like he lost a step on the boxing. A little bit, yeah. Right? Because I told Aljo, I go, you're seeing this shit, right? Because when I was caged, I go, wow, he's struggling. He's reaching. But you've got to get the footwork patterns on Aljo, I think, took him, threw him off. I think he thought he would have more success on the ground. The range, too. Aljo's changed the range.

Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I thought Henry caught up late, but the adjustment was late. It really never came, so would another camp and him staying active make him sharper? I would guess yes, but that might not matter in a match. Do you think Merab can take down the Olympian consistently? No, but he could try to take him down consistently,

and eventually he will get him down, or he'll just have him so, just like he did to Jan. Jan just wanted to get the fuck out of there. Serious question. Have you ever in your life... Never. I don't even know what the question is, but never. Have you ever in your life seen an athlete who has the kind of conditioning

that Merab has? I've never... No, I've never seen it. And I tell you, people... He's always got access to his A game because he never has to ration offense. Always. Right. It's like, and I tell you, he's always got access to his A game because he never has to ration offense. Yeah, I mean, always. Right, and the thing that people don't see, he's always in the gym.

Like, he missed his flight the other day. I forget where he was going. So he missed his flight, so he came to the gym. He's like, I thought you were, I thought you were, no, no, the plane got canceled. I'm going back later. So he's going to work out in the gym and then probably catch a 9 o'clock flight. I don't know. He just doesn't stop.

The guy, it's not like he's, you watch him, he's crazy. The guy's crazy. I mean, I did have to have a talk with him, so you got to get off the ledge of the building. Because I go to your, the only guy that can stop Marab is Marab at this point. And, you know, I've known guys that have lost their life, you know, doing that shit. And it's like,'s crazy man he is just nothing i love this guy nothing bothers him his

cardio is interesting to me because it kind of reminds me of someone who's got huge power and here's what i mean by that sometimes you'll see guys with imagine like you know just like francis inganu power like just absolutely crippling. They don't always work on their game a lot in terms of refinement because they usually don't need to. But Merab steadily has. I mean, that was the big part of the Jan fight. Everyone made a big show about the amount of takedowns and the amount of strikes. And, of course, that was ridiculous.

Please don't misunderstand me. But there was like the level of detail he's putting in his game. I thought he turned a corner in that fight it got much cleaner much sharper so now he's putting the two together 100 i agree with you 100 you know a lot of these even with aljo um beating yon the first time the momentum that both of these guys are on it's going to be hard to stop them and rob you're gonna have to kill that guy there's no question about it all right it's almost to be hard to stop him. And, Rob, you're going to have to kill that guy. There's no question about it. All right, it's almost dated in that first round, Marlon.

Oh, yeah, imagine. I mean, I don't think Marlon gets enough credit for walking him back from hell. Somebody just played, like, the corner shit with that. But I told, before the fight, in my head, I knew that was going to happen. I knew it was going to. I just knew. That's why I said, there's going to be a point in this fight you're going to have to walk through fire. I mean, this is before the fight.

Yeah. Because Henry, I mean, Marlon hits like a mule. And, you know, Murab's not the most sophisticated guy. Ballsy is a motherfucker, but not the most sophisticated with that. So I figured he was going to get hit. And, you know, God, you know, and it happened, and he survived it. And I knew after that it was 100% over. He even came back and might have won that round with the takedown

after running around. Hats off to Keith Peterson. Did a great job with that. No nonsense. No nonsense. Dominic Cruz said that Peterson smells like bitches and hoochies, and I like that. I like that in a man, right?

I think he smokes, but he's definitely not drinking. Dominic gets a little crazy with stuff. You know, what's interesting is, well, actually, let's stay with Murab for just a second. How did you meet Murab? So I met Murab. His friend fought Eddie Gordon. Remember Eddie Gordon in the UFC?

So they fought at the Ring of Combat. Ultimate fighter guy, right? Ultimate fighter guy. Truck. Truck, 100%. So they fought at the Ring of Combat. And then I had, me and Weidman were going into Henzo's to spar every Saturday. And that guy saw me and said, hey, you remember me?

They didn't really speak good English. And I go, yeah, I remember you. I didn't even know who Merab was. But Merab tells me he was there that day, but I was unaware of it. So he, I go, oh, shit, how you doing? Where you live? And he tells me Garden City, which is really like an affluent area. And I just opened up a gym in Garden City.

So I go, I thought it was weird. Like, really? And I said, why don't you come to the gym? I just opened up a gym in Garden City. And him and Murab walked in. And the rest is history, man, really, with that. Yeah, but how did you know, like, I got to coach this kid?

I got to... You know, there was such a language barrier. I'll tell you what happened. He wanted to fight, obviously. You could see the way he was. He's like a little, you know, that kid that needs, like, out of rule in class or something. He's running around.

You can't stop him. So he wanted to fight. He lost a couple of fights. But I remember him coming to me with an interpreter because he felt awful. He says, Ray, I think I have to leave because I can't communicate. And there was another gym maybe like 20 minutes away, half hour away, that had a couple of Georgians that he could communicate. I go, Marab?

And normally, you know, I'm crazy with the loyalty shit, but I go, Marab, you got to do what you got to do. I just wanted to see him do good. At that point, I really liked him, and I knew where he was coming from, and I could see he was kind of broken up, and he wanted to have the right guy tell me because he couldn't do it himself so I said look go whenever you're ready you know come back so he went he didn't last it was like maybe three or four months he studied English I guess really hard he came back he was talking better and that's it then it was then it game on. Then it was him and Aljo.

He just couldn't get the work there. But he just felt so bad with the communication that I think it was bothering him. All right, if iron sharpens iron, how does Aljo and Marab raise each other's game? They just always, listen, they're always there for each other. Obviously, Marab has the gas tank to push Aljo, right, for his game, and Aljo really technically

really tightened up Murab's wrestling. Like, he maybe was a Sambo guy, but he can wrestle now. You know, they took him to the Columbia room over here. I mean, he's you know, like he's advanced strength against kid strength, but those kids are good, man. I saw the video. He was showing him up. Oh, he don't give a...

Now, is that the Columbia room or the Columbia room? No, no, no. It's the Ivy League University. Okay, okay. Sorry, sorry. Well, whatever. But the coach there was... Luke's wife is from the other Columbia, so that's why.

Oh, I got it, yeah. Columbia, Columbia. Cuban, so we got something in common. There you go. Oh, that means you both like spice in your life. As Luke has often said, Coach Ray, are you really in a good relationship if your wife hasn't ripped off your front door at least once? Well, Colombians and Cubans, I think ripping off the front door might be a gift.

That might be a freaking gift. This man understands. But, you know, the thing about success is, Coach Ray, they're going to try to take your two sons here, Aljo and Rob. They're going to try to make men out of both of them against each other for the world championship. This ain't the Klitschko brothers promising mom necessarily, right, to steal a boxing story.

But it can fracture a great thing, you know. I mean, was DC a great friend or did he know Kane was coming, brother? You know what I'm saying? DC was a great friend, or did he know Kane was coming, brother? You know what I'm saying? DC was a great friend, I think. Okay, then is Aljo a great friend, or does Aljo know it's coming? Or the other way around? What do you say about this situation? How old is Merab? 31, maybe?

Yeah, so Aljo's 33. You know, there's slightly different timelines in terms of their... But you support their celibacy in this situation, right? A hundred percent. No, no, I support it. I'd be really upset if they said they were going to fight each other. Why?

Because, you know, like, again, I don't want to—you know, like, money's not my god, right? I'm not going to pray to money. And for people that don't understand, like, money's good, but money could also be bad the more you have. So, I mean, it's like—I think people don't get like, and Gano's happy. If you're a money guy, you're looking at yourself and you're giving up 15 million. Maybe the guy's happy. You know, maybe he's a garbage man who was just happy doing what he's doing, but a lot of people can't understand that. So I don't think. I'd be one of those people. Which one? With the money? Yeah. I've never gotten to a point where I had so much money it was bad.

Yeah, it looks like I will sell my soul. Show me where to sign, please. Well, I'm just saying, but you see guys have money and get in trouble. I'm obviously. You know what I'm saying. But I think it's good to have principle. And you've got to remember where Merab comes from, he's already a winner. He's a winner.

If you throw him out of the UFC tomorrow, he'll go back, he'll do construction. Like that's what I'm saying. When you're free of that in your mind, you can make decisions. Nobody could play with your mind, right? So, but, you know, look, anything kind of with the UFC, they dangle money at you. That's their carrot. If they can't get you to bite with the money, they have no leverage at all with you, you know?

So here's why I bring this up. It's not that I find this crazy, but just for the purposes of articulating it. What is the problem with teammates fighting? And here's what I bring up. You might have seen this as well. Like, I've seen some of the Dutch guys, now it's kickboxing, but some of the Dutch guys will have the same team and they'll still fight each other and they seem to be like no problem with it.

Is it cultural? Is there something specific to MMA about the damage you can incur? What is so taboo about it in your mind? I think the damage is one of the things. It's a street fight, basically, right? It's a legalized street fight. And should brothers fight each other? If they really were brothers, would that be like, you know,

wasn't there a movie on that, fighting with a brother? Warrior. Warrior, yeah. I mean, is that good? Because they're not really brothers, but they're brothers of a kind. So, look, I always had the culture in the gym where, you know, kind of we help each other. And that's the way I'd like to keep it. Unless something changes.

But, you know, even if they fought, they're not going to fight each other. Like, the fans will lose on that. They'll make an agreement not to do something. They'll try to tell you, I don't like it anyway, but that's not going to happen. Like at the end of Rocky III back in the gym when the doors are closed and it's just closed family, do they go ding-ding? Oh, no, no.

First of all, if they do beat the shit out of each other. So for them to fight each other, that could be an argument. You're doing it already. Yeah. I don't see it happening, no. First of all, if they do beat the shit out of each other. So for them to fight each other, that could be an argument. You're doing it already. Yeah. I don't see it happening, man. They're neighbors. They got house. They're dead.

I think it's like the way Murab was raised and where he came from. I don't think he's going to. I just don't think he's living life, man. You too. We lived through Koscheck and Fitch at AKA. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 170, just refusing to do it. I look at, like, you know, Rashad Evans was with Jackson first,

and then John. So what, you're selling out for the bigger guy? Yeah, because you'd have to make a tough decision there. Yeah, I wouldn't. You wouldn't do it, yeah. I'm not doing it, I can tell you right now. Well, I love that. Me and Matt, when we were on the show, we coached guys, right?

And then, you know, through just that evolution, our team, I think we went 6-1. We went 6-1, but the vote kept going back and forth. Not that we kept it, so I want to say that. Built the accolades even on the show. But when it came time for the guys to fight, I mean, it was like, no, we're not going in the corner. I don't think I could.

I didn't even know these guys. So I'm not going to know guys for 10 years. I'm not. I just. Well, look, I like that you said I'm not about money, so that's not going to be a pull. But I think you set a tone that creates this attitude in your gym. I love the attitude that you bring as a character in this MMA space because there's a lot of guys that don't take shit in MMA to varying degrees of character, but you don't take shit, but you're also like this working class guy who's going to tell it like it is.

This is no disrespect, but if you weren't doing this, you could easily be running that laundromat down the street from me or working at the deli across the street behind the glass because you bring that every man. I know, but I'm saying he brings that lovable every man. I don't give a shit, but I got your back feeling. Is this like faux celebrity thing where you're coaching, you're doing podcasts, you're doing different things? I know you've done acting in the past. You get down with that?

You're good with this? Look, first off, I like money. I'm just saying, but I love money. I'm not going to sell my soul for it, right? I'll give you a million dollars, but then I'm going to go, well, my kids are going to think I'm a jerk off like, you know what I mean? Is it worth a million dollars? No, it's just not. Now, maybe it was the way it was brought up.

I don't know. But I'm very content where I'm at. I think that's even the other thing with coaching, right? If you're not squared away, how could you coach somebody else? And I think that was part of my success is that these guys really, first of all, they all took care of me. They're all great guys. We're still together. Did you, you can't keep two friends like me and Sarah go back 30 years, probably at this point, like that's hard to do. You know what I mean? Like it's hard, like even in a marriage,

that's hard to do. I mean, we know that, right? We have an editorial marriage that's rocky as shit, so I know that. But you know what I'm saying? So the fact that everybody's still together, and I don't know how much longer I could keep everything together, but for right now, it's been going on for 30 years. But you're not chasing the money or the celebrity. Let it come right. Well, reading your back story, you didn't get in this for the money celebrity.

You didn't get in this when the UFC was created. You went way back. Way, way before that. So why did you start training people in a garage in their backyards and just chase this dream that's taking you now where you're this funny, lovable character, Coach Ray, who will kick that ass if you get it right. No, no, no. Well, I wasn't chasing a dream.

I love the martial arts and I still do. And that was it. I was really for the love of the martial arts like I might like you know we've talked I'm a love Kali I love to stick a knife stuff but I had to put it on the back burner because once I started training people I said I really I take this serious they're not going boxing gyms I had a lot of guys that box friends growing up we all box really but and then you start picking people's brains and looking for new ways to

motivate people and it just people were winning I think if I maybe started out and everybody was losing that wouldn't have been good but you know I had guys with the golden gloves kickboxing champs stick fighting champs it was like so I became more of maybe a motivator but I knew what I was doing uh I did have a background but you know i'd love watching people succeed and through their success i feel like that's what makes me happy so it's interesting like we're now entering a phase where mma is a little bit more like boxing in the sense that we're getting coaches who are a older i remember when cornermen were all the same age as the fighters yeah that has changed substantially and the other one is like you obviously have a background in martial arts but not a background in like yeah there was no mma at

the time 100 but you're still one of the very top coaches it's interesting like do you have to have fought you have seen one entitled to be a great coach quite obviously no um yeah so what what what are you able to do that enables you to be in your mind like why do you think the coaching has worked so well for you okay so i think first off i try to understand each guy like aljo comes from 19 siblings damn he didn't get a lot of hugs growing up no i mean so i have to i'm gonna i'm gonna train him as a guy like that you know what i mean which is weird i think to some people wait the other thing i gotta say first off too i'm not here for sar Sarah's if it isn't

without Matt Sarah so I mean I'm like the front man but Sarah being I mean you know that guy's one of my best friends like he was a fighter so we have the luxury of I could pick his brain on that so it's he he's got to take 50 of the credit you know I mean but and he would tell you no definitely not because I'm going to put the time and I'm going to make sure the guys get to work i'm going to watch the spar and i'm going to you know interject what i think will help them and uh i think it's just giving a shit like just really want people could feel when you want to you you want them to succeed i think and it was all for real and organic and it you know you know, like, I think that's what scares me. Second, that stops, I'll quit. Your gift seems, as you mentioned, to be a motivator.

Yeah. So where does that superpower come from where you got to a point where you're like, you know, I can, I can help others. Did someone really do that for you? Like Mr. Johnson, the old guy at the seniors. I think my old man was, you know, like we had a restaurant. He'd feed, like, you know, if you didn't have money, he'd feed you. He was just that guy, you know, always, you know, you need help building something. He was over there. So I think maybe watching my dad, you know, be very giving with his time.

Maybe that's what did it. But, no, there wasn't like a coach. There wasn't none of that. I was like, no, really, what am I being psychoanalyzed on? He snuck it in there good. Holy crap. He'll make some fart jokes and then ask you about your status. A hundred percent.

Holy shit. You know, because I appreciate that fact of it because, obviously, you know, X's and O's, you're partnered with a legend and a Hall of Famer. But sometimes you've got to play good cop, bad cop. And sometimes you just got to light a fire under a guy's ass. You've never been afraid to do that, it seems. Right. And let me add another thing, too.

Growing up, even watching boxing, you know, I always, somebody asked me, what was your favorite boxing match? You'll appreciate this. I go, Duran to Jesus. Oh, yeah. I mean, think about it. That's a good ask for. How good is that fight? Yes.

So I'm watching out my old man. And then I'm watching Vince Lombardi coach. And I'm Angelo Dundee, Gil Clancy chirping at each other. And I'm starting to identify, I think, at an early age with the coaches, right? I mean, I guess somewhere along the line I figured I wasn't going to be a good fighter, so I might as well go, what's the next best thing? Let's go to coaching. So I think I grew up watching all of those guys with my dad talking about them kind of more than the athletes,

although all he talked about was Joe DiMaggio forever. But besides that, Lombardi was huge. Joe D must have laid some pipe, though, to be honest with you. Let me tell you a great story. I'm at my second gym, and I go out to the car, and a guy's walking in. Hey, how's it going? Hey, how's it going? I go in the car. I'm like, wow, that guy looks familiar.

I just go. Like two days later, the massage therapist goes over. She goes, hey, man, Whitey Ford wants to meet you. Oh, shit. It was Whitey Ford. I go, holy crap. That's all? And I grew up watching.

I went to Yankee Stadium watching Mickey Mantle playing all that shit. But so the stories he had were freaking, you know, talking about laying pipe, you know, and he's talking about Marilyn Monroe, the time DiMaggio brought her out to here, and everybody's sitting there just staring at her. But, yeah, so I got to talk to Whitey Foy, which was, you know, being a

Yankee fan and coming from that era, as sad as that is to say, was just phenomenal, and he loved to tell stories, so it was great, and then he would always come by to gym, I think his son was into martial arts, and he'd always stop by and say hello, and it was just, it was good, but yeah, talking about Joe D, that struck a mind. Let's go back to 1980, if we can. 1980. Graduated St. John's in 1980. I was one year old.

I think that's when you were two or three. Were you one year old? How old are you now? I'm 43. I'm older than him. Yeah, 43. You're a fucking baby. Yeah, I know.

This sucks, man. Yeah, getting old blows. I don't like this couch anymore. Sorry. I want to go home. Oh, this sucks, man. Yeah, getting old blows. I don't like this couch anymore. Sorry. I want to go home. Mama, mama, mama. I want to talk about it because you kind of like. I love the 80s.

The 80s were insane, especially in New York City. Were you in Long Island or New York City during the 80s? I was in Long Island. Okay, so tell me about Long Island in the 1980s. What was it like, your area anyway? Man, a lot of clubs. Club scene was hopping. That was it.

I came out. I started working for a company called Ericsson, you know, where they have the arena in Sweden. Yep. So it was called LM Ericsson at the time. And then I think— In accounting or— In accounting, yes. I worked for a Swedish company, so.

Wow. And where are we going with this again we're in 80 so I'm doing accounting I mean I don't know if I think I'm on top of the world I'm still doing martial arts I'm training I'm training people on the side as I'm doing accounting um when when were you like man fuck this accounting stuff I think I'm gonna go a different different way. Like 87, probably 88. Okay, so it took a little while. Yeah, yeah. No, but I was always training. I was even training people in the corporate park.

You know, there was my brother worked for a company called El Greco. He was like the VP of finance. It was a big shoe, ladies' shoe. Remember those commercials back in the day? El Greco, you could pull them up. and I started training some executives over there. So I was always doing private lessons and stuff, teaching at my mother's garage. I was still living at home. And then a guy walked in one day and then he became my first kickboxing champ, Mike Ryan. He was a badass.

When you told your coworkers, I'm going to go train kickboxers in my mom's garage, were any of them like, what the fuck are you doing? Well, I was doing private life. No, nobody was doing that. Because I'll tell you, at the time, what happened was Erickson was starting, for the U.S. point anyway, was starting to sink. You know, like that ship was, people were leaving. And I wanted, you know what happened?

We started like taking two-hour lunches. I was like, you know, this isn't even good for my work ethic. Like I got to get out of here. And everybody who was starting a telecommunications company who was doing this, construction. So, yeah, I chose to go to a round of the martial arts. And so from 1987, when did things, you had your first champion. Like when did things take a turn in the 90s where you knew you had leveled up from what you had started?

Let's see, let's go. I mean, I suck at this, and everybody always asks me, and they say you got to write it down, but when do I meet Sarah? So I already have a kickboxing champ, 90, oh, no, no, he won the gloves. Where are we, 93? Yeah, 93, 94, I meet Sarah, and I'm like. How did you meet him? I met him in the city, Craig Cukoc's gym.

Craig Cukoc was Horry and Gracie's first black belt, and he came to the city, and I had a guy I trained with, Paul Vunak, call me and go, dude, you got to get with this guy. I remember what he said. He said, a year from today, you'll be way ahead of everybody. It was the first time Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was coming to town. So I would go in there, and obviously there was no UFC. There's nobody there, and Kukoc's going,

can I even make money as a martial arts teacher? And I'm like, I started bringing my my students so we even had some people there and then I'm gonna say dislocate on my shoulder spore and a faint whatever you want to call it and I'm out and in that time the UFC hits and when I go back that's when I meet Sarah So what is it? Let me let me back up. This is probably boring the shit out of her. No, no, no. I like it. But Sarah, when I had dislocated my arm, I got my nose break.

I took a bit of a beating. But he comes in. I'm in a sling with a black guy. Sarah walks in with his friend. He's 17 years old. And he's talking to me. I don't know how old I am. Maybe 30.

Probably old. Oh, no no I think I'm 35 so he's like you know this kid's got drug problems I want to get him into something he's I'm saying a 17 year old kid bringing his friend you know to help him out I mean it's just insightful so in the course of that you know again I'm there I got a black eye I'm in a sling and I said you know I told him I eye. I'm in a sling. I told him I was doing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. He said he was going to seminars. He thinks I'm lying at this point. Blah, blah, blah.

I get done with my rehab. It's like three months later. Kukak ends up coming to the studio. He was the first guy I see walking in the door at Oishi Dojo. I'm like, hey, blah, blah, blah. I just bought a house maybe half a mile away from where he grew up. So I had gotten married, bought a house. And I said, if you want, I'll drive you in.

So we just start driving in and busting balls from day one. I mean, he was a motherfucker, dude. That guy. You mean this Joe Pesci lookalike? Let me tell you, that motherfucker was, and let me tell you, I don was, and let me tell you, I don't know how he was doing it, but he pissed on every, you ask anybody from that era, that guy was unbelievable.

He was, he just was out of control. You couldn't stop him. His jujitsu was crazy. Are you practicing? He'd always ask, are you looking at the tapes? Are you practicing? I'm married. I got a kid i i really don't have the time i'm trying but he was he had brothers and his father was into it so they could take whatever they got in the city and go home and date i would see that guy 100 on bars at once i'm like i gotta get out of here let's just roll or do something

but i can't the reps were then it was the guy pulls out, we go to a triangle. Just over and over. And then he just started winning. Nobody was touching him back then. And then he technically did win Abu Dhabi, but he had to technically throw the match, I guess

you could say, because the other guy was from Gracie Baja, and that's the way they did things. That I was pissed about. I think closeouts in jiu-jitsu are beyond indefensible. And the prince even said, anybody gets caught doing that, you'll never come back here again. But Serra definitely, look, he beat John Giacomincano. That was insane at that point.

Huge. Insane. Especially for an American at the time. That was unheard of. Yeah. So it's mid-'90 time. That was unheard of. Yeah. I had a bull. So it's mid-90s.

Yeah, mid-90s. And you've got this rising guy in Matt Serra who you're like, depending on what discipline we go in. Right. And I'm training kickboxes and boxes at the same time. At the same time, the UFC is hitting. It's a pay-per-view overnight success. It becomes this edgy thing for teens like us to be like, oh, shit, let's tape a nickel over the button on the black box, you know, in the cable box.

And I can see the boobs through the squiggly lines. But, no, this time I can convince dad to buy me UFC 4. How much does the growth of UFC there change your martial arts direction in your mind of what you're doing, training people out of the garage and then escalating to, hey, I got this great guy in camp now? You know, I think it was everything, you know, but I was considered successful with the promoting kickboxing and kickboxing at the time. So, you know, so I think that's why people came. I was the only guy around with the standup, if you think about it, you know, a lot of people weren't doing that. So I already had kickboxing champions, you know, guys doing Thai boxing, guys boxing. So it was, and plus Sarah's from Long Island.

So, you know, I guess I was the guy to go to. So, but that, the UFC changes everything. I kind of put whatever training I'm doing, I got to be almost 40 at the time, right? So I just concentrate on training people, you know. When did you, at what point do you and Sarah begin to team up to train both either, I guess, him? Yeah, let's talk about that. Sarah Longo wasn't a thing until his career is mostly over? I'm going to say yeah.

I'm not 100% sure. I'm going to say yeah. So as he is moving through the ranks past the Shoney Carter fights, and then eventually we're going to get back to the Ultimate Fighter IV, he wins against Chris Leto. Where are you during this whole time? Oh, I'm right with him. Oh, no, no, we're hanging out together.

Yeah, no, no, I'm close with him at this point. Not like today, but the relationship is, Bill, I like the guy. For a young guy, I felt like there wasn't even an age gap. He was way mature beyond his years, and he was funny, and he was a fighter. Look. What's the first fight you cornered him for? Do you remember? In the UFC?

Yeah, Shoney. It was the Shoney fight. Yeah, yeah, Shoney. Which, for folks who don't remember, he actually lost via one of the earliest ever spinning backfists. Yeah, one of the reasons I love him, too, because, you know, it's funny. And when we looked at Shoney, I remember I had a kid who won the gloves with me. He said, we're looking at Shoney's spin backfist. I'm like, eh, he'll see that coming.

And then he did get hit by it. I swear to God. And then, you know, Henzo was the guy in the corner. He only let one guy in. I'm screaming, man, he's going to set you up again for it. And then, look, here's why I love him. He could have left me at that point. I'm the striking coach, so I'm screaming, man, he's going to set you up again for it. And then look, here's why I love him. He could have left me at that point. I'm the striking coach. So I'm getting attacked by everybody. And he'll do the interviews. Ray never told me to keep my hand on my ass. He never said

that. And he's, you know, look, he made a mistake. He grew from it, but that's what all the other generations of guys get. You have a guy that lost his first UFC fight. Plus he just beat John Jacques Machado. So he's basically getting immortalized, right, on that level. He loses. He's got to look at that for 10 years. He becomes a champion. That's a strong-willed guy. That's a strong-willed

motherfucker, man. He really was, what a badass he was growing up. Did it change you being around somebody that hungry, that mentally strong? I think so. I think it all adds. I think we all play off each other. You know what I mean?

Like, you know, I'm trying to think. You got to remember, too, like, not many people know this story. So when I meet Sarah, my gym was down the block from the courthouse in Nassau County. And he's in court because he had bit a guy's ear off in a fight. He doesn't mind me saying this now. We never really talked about this. No, no, seriously. So he's at the pizza parlor.

He calls his girlfriend up. I could get this story a little wrong too, but he calls his girlfriend up. The brother picks up the phone, basically tells him to go fuck himself. Matt tells him to go fuck himself. The guy's a juice head. He runs down.

He breaks his boss's nose. He grabs Sarah in the back. This is before jiu-jitsu. He'll always say, if I knew jiu-jitsu, this would have never happened. I would have been able to. It's almost like what he did in the restaurant. Right. Would have been a little different, but he bit the guy's ear completely off.

That's nice. So he beats the, you know, listen. But, you know, as a coach, I'm like, I got a fighter. This is the shit I'm looking for. Yeah, I may have a champion here. You know what I mean? Once you got the balls, it's easy. Like, if you got a guy who's gun shy,

you can show him all the boxing you want. He doesn't want to get hit. There's nothing you can do about it unless you can, you know, figure out a way to make him at ease with that, which obviously there's ways to do. So he's coming to the gym in between. No, he beats the criminal case. Then they sue him for like $12 million civilly.

And he's coming to court every day. We're hanging out talking, you know. And the guy, like it was total self-defense, but the guy was saying that Sarah knocked him down. Then he bent over and bit his ear off. And I'm like, dude, if you did that, I want you to get the fuck out of the gym. That's a different level. Self-defense is one thing.

That's just cannibalism. No, that's cannibalism at that point. But that's what the guy was saying. But Sarah, you could see his personality now. Because I talked to the defense attorney. He goes, I never had a better witness than this guy. You know what I mean? That was for another problem we had. But so that one, so he's coming to the gym and we're talking about the case every day and he beats the civil case, you know, and then he moves on. And at that point we're fighting. That was always the weird part. I go,

if they know you're fighting now, but you know, it wasn't, you didn't have the coverage like today. I think it would have been a problem. I don't even think it ever came up, but he was already fighting. He beats that. Introducing the new McSpicy from McDonald's. It looks like a regular chicken sandwich, but it's actually a spicy chicken sandwich. McSpicy, consider yourself warned. Limited time only.

At participating McDonald's in Canada. Yeah, that was, how'd we get on today? Did that guy ever sew an ear back on or he just went like? I tell you, Sarah tells me now he's up there. He had a prosthetic ear. He was screwing it on and off for the jury. And I'm like, dude, this is, this is insane. Dude, 80s and 90s prosthetics. Oh, I don't even know. But he said the guy

was off the juice, so he didn't even look big now. He goes, holy shit, he was half the size he was. And he's got this fake hair. But now you got another guy who's 5'6", so he's not a big guy, Matt, so and he speaks well, so he's doing good. He beats that case.

And then we just, from there, we just got tight as shit. I don't know. He's a good. He beats that case. And then we just, from there, we just got tight as shit. I don't know. He's a really funny guy. Like, there's times I'm driving, I'm on the phone, I got to pull over. Like, he's just a great guy. Yeah, but what fuels him having balls? Because he's got balls, Matt Serra.

You know, it was a lot of fights as a kid, man. You know, I would talk to other guys from his high school. And when I was promoting him, because he would fight on whatever the ring of combat was back then. Me and Negley were doing the shows at the Vanderbilt on Long Island. He'd pre-sell like 200, 300 tickets, which is not easy to do. He was a real likable guy. And he was that guy in school. He was the badass, but he was the badass fighting the bullies. He wasn't a bully,

and he still would never do that. If you're a bully, he's going after you. Same with like Weidman. You think you're alpha male in somebody in the club, Weidman's, he's ripping you right out of there. That's what I love about these guys. And I don't come from the easiest environment, but these guys, I think, took it to another level. Who gave Sarah the nickname The Terror? Man, no idea. Probably just rhymed, I guess. Yeah. It wasn't you or anything?

I don't think so. I mean, I'm having the argument. Because now I'm starting to under, I mean, I knew it all was rhymed. Oh, yeah. But now I'm like, oh, shit, now it's. Oh, no, that guy was a terror. Yeah. No, I even come out of jujitsu one time.

He saw a guy sitting on my car down there. He started to, I had to grab him by the shirt. Like, I don't—what is it? So what? They're sitting on—the guy was going to go crazy. Now, he's— All right, well, he goes crazy and becomes a legitimate title contender. I think we drifted off.

Well, we could drift back in here. You've got GSP in front of you. It becomes kind of the go-to on the biggest upset in UFC history, although Matt's also a Hall of Famer. So we know that he had the ability to pull that off. But did it go exactly in a best-case scenario of what you would have hoped there?

What do you remember about game planning for GSP the first time? Game planning for GSP, you know, he tells the story like I made him believe in his right hand, right? He did have power, but I'm like, made you believe. You broke a guy's jaw with a headgear on. I seen you knock down three or four guys.

One guy was GSP's sparring partner. Like, he thinks, you've got to remember the relationship. I was a ball buster. So, like, what he's doing to me now, he's making up for what I did to him when he was a younger kid, right? So, you know, I'm like the father now, so so I got to take it, like, you know, whatever. But so he would always think I was bullshitting. I'm like, where do you see the bullshit? I'm just saying, like, if you hit this guy, he's going.

That's it. And I thought I just did a great job with getting him the right sparring looks and everything. And I knew, you got to remember, too, at the time, Serra is a legend at Hanzo's. He's beaten everybody. He's just, you know, and GSP was training there with Dana. So he's here in this shit. I don't care who he's rolling with.

The guy's going to go, no, Serra kills me. You know, so he thinks we want to fight to the floor. We never intended to that fight to go to the floor at all. And for folks who remembered, it was supposed to happen, then GSP gets injured. And that was huge, too. And I gave you guys another, like, two months of sparring. You're good.

That was huge. Yes. That was huge. I don't even know, before the two months, that two months really let us dial in 100%. That's a great point. When he landed that first right hand, that absolutely landed flush, what went through your mind?

Because I'll never forget where I was. I was at a Hard Times Cafe in Fredericksburg, Virginia watching this. Because of course he had to come off the Ultimate Fighter, the season four redemption season. They brought all the guys back, including Shoney Carter, by the way. They brought Shoney Carter back for that. And Matt wins it against Chris Lytle in a fairly boring-ish fight.

100%. 100%. That fight could have went either way. I thought Matt won, but again, I just got... You know what it is? I got really tough guys that are good guys, which I think is always the best combo. You don't want to be a fucking lunatic

where you just always, you're never off. These are good guys. Like, he really felt horrible for Lytle. Lytle had four kids. I remember him telling me, that sucks, but, you know, I got to do what I got to do. But I think that's why he gave him that fight in Illinois at the end. He wanted that in the worst way

for Lytle. As crazy as that sounds, this is why I love him. I really and those guys ended up having a great friendship. Him and Dean Thomas, super close. And that's what I love about fighting. You fight a guy and then you're friends with him. And then you know a guy. And then you know a guy, man.

So when that right hand landed, you could see GSP is in trouble. Yeah, I kind of knew it was over, you know? I kind of knew it was over. And we went through it because the funny part was, so that night I had Lou Como, Drago, Pete So, and Matt fighting. I remember when Como hits, who was the kid that Bisping fought in the finale? Was it Cowboy maybe? No. Who'd Luke beat in Texas? I can't think of his name. Come on. Bisping fought him. I don't even think Bisping got rid of him in five rounds. He was on the show

with Bisping. Nice guy. Can't remember. Oh, but anyway, so Luke knocks him out and the guy grabs the ref's leg. Right? So I go to Matt, I go, listen, if you get him hurt, you got to maintain distance. The guy's going to look to grab you.

I'm just pacing it off of what just happened with Luke. And after he hit him, you, you watch Matt, he's lining them up. He's looking for very patient. And then when he got him on the floor and got him in trouble, just finished it off but yeah that was that was great to this day I mean a lot of people don't like GSP tapped to strikes he did tap to strike which I actually don't even

blame him for because he was getting bombed on but that was the ultimate surrender was it not to get that guy to tap to strikes without a doubt well GSP GSP's a great guy he's a nice guy I'm not saying it to besmirch him. No, no, no, definitely not. But I'm saying he'll even tell you. That's what I'm saying. Sarah bit a guy's ear off. I watch some of these guys in the street.

You know what I'm saying? GSP's not biting anybody's ear off. It's a sport. You know, to me, Matt was always street fighting. You know, and then we have to sophisticate that. But when you have that type of mentality and you've been in a hundred street fights, look, the difference back then was guys were fighting for nothing. They fought because they love to fight. It wasn't about, they weren't

negotiating money. Now, which allowed Dana to build that thing up. And I think that's why he takes care of Matt today. You know, he's always, he really takes good care of Matt. So, you know, those guys fought because they love to fight. So GSP, I don't think was ever that guy. I think he's an athlete and he's a sportsman. You know, he's just a nice kid. But, you know, you put him out, you know, whatever. I'm just saying. All right.

In hindsight, Coach, in what ways did that night change your life? I don't even know, man. Everything was just good. Look, I'm riding a wave that hasn't even stopped. That gives you a critical stamp that this camp, this coach, this fighter, that this is a moment in time. You know what's weird? Back then, I was just telling this to people in the gym.

I might have did one interview after. I didn't want to talk to anybody. I didn't even care, you know, the social media wasn't a thing, maybe, it wasn't a big deal, I never really was, wanted to, you know, glom any of the limelight, because it was Sarah's the fighter, so, you know, I mean, he always did a good job, you know, pushing me out in front of everybody. So that was it. It wasn't until he retired and I got with Weidman, I started getting a little more, you know, the relationships were different. So, you know, I started stepping out and talking more.

People forget, Zara had good wins after that. The Frank Trigg win. A hundred percent. Bombed on Trigg, too. And he used to be a hundred percent bombed on Trigg, big time. Trust me, I hear about it every week I see it. Yeah, that one was a bit acrimonious. Oh, no, no, that's his favorite fight to talk about.

Okay. And in the U's fight, I thought he 100% won. I thought he stole it at the end with that inside leg triple. Hip toss, I don't know what he did, but he took him down nice, and he didn't really get any damage in that fight. I thought that was definitely 1-one going into the third. What a crazy talk about split decisions. And both guys' names are Matt.

You want to fucking have a heart attack? I think we won Matt. I mean, it was you, not Sarah. It's like, ah, that was a bummer because I really wanted to win that fight. All right, on the Ray Longo coaching journey, Matt, Sarah has a moment. It establishes you on the elite level, on the top level. Maybe, yeah. When does Chris Weidman walk into your life?

Yeah, so there's a guy that went to school with him and called me probably ten times. You got to see this guy. He's a wrestler. He said, I don't care. You know what I mean? I'm just happy doing my thing. I got my little gym.

I'm doing good. And I must have blown him off. I guess I never, I always blow him off. And then he walked in the gym one time. He walks in the gym and I was watching sparring. He sat on the ring with me and everything's over. And two o'clock in the morning, we're still talking. Now I go, man, I really like this guy.

What a nice guy. He's asking the right questions and blah blah blah and then i see this guy and i'm like man i never saw wrestling like that i wasn't really the wrestling guy i always let it somebody else do it but weidman was off when was he a different i saw in weidman what i saw with matt with the jujitsu these guys are unstoppable And then if you look at even his collegiate ones, he had a couple of, you know, flops, but he beat Phil Davis, he beat Bader. So on any given, I think he lost to Rochelle, right? And probably a bunch of other guys.

But on any given day, he could beat anybody with that. But it was a level that I never saw before. Man, did he take, he took to the striking really well and um you know again we've i don't know if you heard the story about when we went out to dinner the other night but um you know he wanted to spar right away i'm like dude listen you have a shot you're not jumping in there right then the guy called up people he was bringing a wrestler do you have anybody from the spa? Whoever was supposed to spa him doesn't show up in Weidman's there. He goes, I'm sparring.

He's with me like three months. This guy comes from a wrestling family out east. And I go, you know what? Okay, you can spar. You don't have a mouthpiece, though. I figure I go that route. That's when you hear this story. Now, there's a concrete floor under the octagon.

The mats, there's no mats. He sees a mouthpiece, this shitty with the fucking fuzz on it. He goes, I got one. He sticks this fucking mouthpiece. I go, I got another winner. I don't even have to see him fuck. It sounds like the script to a movie right now. A movie where Billy Blanks would play the high school janitor

and he'd kick ass, you know what I mean? He picks up the mouthpiece and he beats the ever-living shit out of this guy who was a wrestler. I mean, but the guy now came from a wrestling family. He was older though. He's probably like 30, probably 34, which is pretty funny because that doesn't seem old today,

but Weidman was probably 23. He just beat the piss out of the guy. He'd go, holy shit, we gotta just fast-track this guy. That was a fast-track. That was a fast-track right to the title. That really was a fast-track. I'll tell you what the turning point was for me with Weidman was the Mark Munoz fight. Unbelievable. When he slashed him with the

elbow. What timing on that, too. I was just like, holy fucking shit, this guy is going to do something crazy. Dude, he was, I seen him just leave people laying dead in the octagon. He was vicious. Weidman now, he's a fucking family man. He's a great guy, but I think it came with a price to him not being as hungry as he was coming up. You know, he was living in his mother's basement.

He was still getting in street fights I mean I've been with him a couple of he's he's pretty I mean they're all nuts but they're all great guys but I can't tell you like they're all insane is like like I like honest I don't even think there's anything you could do to that guy you have to either knock him out or you're just getting ragdolled like if you don't know what you're doing he's just he's a he's huge and he he was just killing everybody i have to know yeah which locker room after the win was crazier sarah beating gsp or why i've been beating anderson silver the first time i don't know let me just say i'm gonna say i'm gonna try probably say wideman because everything's bigger at the time media and like the the other thing, I'm telling you, Matt,

it was just like we were going to a fight. Like people said, what was it like having three guys fighting on the same cut? I don't know. Like they all were equal. Like, you know, even though Serra was fighting for the title, he's just telling his story. I'm staying with a friend of mine in Houston at the time, and he's going, we're going to see 300.

Like, I'll pass. The movie. The movie, 300. So you could go back. It was 2007, right? They come in. He's walking down the hall. They're coming down the hall going, you got to go to the press conference.

Like, he doesn't even, like, this is where we're at. He's not even, no, he goes, no, I'm going to the movie. No, no, you got to go to the press conference. This is where we're at. Like, everything was, we weren't putting a big emphasis on things. And again, this is my standpoint. He could be different. But he calls up, he goes, you got to get over

here quick. Luke and Drago already left. I'm by myself. He's got a whole entourage. By the time I get there, they're already in midstream. He's making jokes up on the podium. But that's kind of the way it was. So it wasn't – it was big, but Sarah's grounded, man.

He never – like you were never worried about him going out and wrecking his car or, you know, sleeping with 10 hookers and getting snorting an April. Now, they're all really good. I even had that conversation with Aljo. I'm not even worried about you. He's such a nice kid, and he's got a great girl, and he just does the right thing. Do those wins, they're so different, different guys, different times,

do they mean the same thing to you? I wonder if they mean slightly different things in their own way. You know? Two of the greatest upsets in MMA. Yeah, I take it like Favola's fight to me was as big as Aljo's fight the other night. Like, I think that's what I love about the UFC. Each fight is like a—they're all—they carry such heavy weight with them for a variety of reasons. So I just think that, you know, with Weidman, you know, I got Serra in the corner with me or whatever.

You know, he's now part of that end of it. So the dynamic changes, I think, a little bit. But they're all great times. But I would never say this was better than that. But Weidman's definitely was more monumental based on where we were. It was another 10 years future. So, you know, all the media, you're going here, you're getting interviewed here. It was different.

Back then they didn't even have that. But you would know better than me. but that's my recollection of that. But also, when you upset GSP, no one knew at that moment who GSP necessarily would become. Right, that's another thing. When you knock out Anderson Silva to end the 16th fight, he was already up there, right? A hundred percent.

That's a good point, though. I mean, because I want to say, what did you feel? It's a huge moment for you guys, but it was a weird ending. Anderson kind of did it to himself. He did spider things. Weidman just kept punching, and you got rid of him. Yeah. What are your emotions then in that moment beyond the whole?

The first part, it was just unbelievable. I couldn't believe he did it. I mean, it was one of those, because you've got to remember, at that point, Anderson Silva's got a highlight tape from hell. I mean, look at all the knockouts that guy had and all this stuff. Did you think Weidman was going to wrestle him? I thought Weidman was going to wrestle him more than knock him out, but I know he had power in his hands. And even that thing with the punch a hole in his chest, which that was really like

emotional for me in there. So like, again, people try to get me to say it. I never have said it ever. I'll write it, but I won't say it. But the goal was to put a bullseye on his chest because he had the good head movement. So I wanted him to at least make contact, and then the second and third punch find his head. So it wasn't like it came out of left field. He knew what the fuck I was talking about. See, I was hoping, as a wrestling fan, Ox Baker, you were going for the heart punch. That's what I was hoping. People don't use that enough in MMA.

I'll tell you what, no, the punch under the high rib up here, too, that's a problem, man. You could puncture a lung. You break that upper rib, you puncture a lung. So Durant was big on that punch, too. You know what I mean? So, I mean, I do, you know, I've always gone over with my fighters, but that wasn't for that. That was just to stabilize them.

I want them to hit something. I don't want him to get frustrated missing. No, sometimes, you know, it's like I'd rather hit a guy at 50% than miss him at 100%, you know, that type of mentality. We don't have a ton of time left, but I want to see if there's a through line. So you had this incredible run with Sarah, this incredible run with Chris Weidman, which is not over, but certainly I think, you know, he is probably closer to the end of his career

than the beginning. I think it's fair to say. And now with Aljo doing these incredible things, imagine I'm a coach and I'm like decent, but I haven't kind of got it figured out. And I asked you, coach, what, what can I do? What, what has been the through line that has enabled you to take guys from Long Island who, yes, are special athletes, but to really turn them into something great. What do I need to do to put myself in a position like you have?

What is the common denominator there? I'm going to say the first common denominator, and, like, again, I should be thinking about this more, but you have to give a shit about them more than yourself. That's it. It's got to be selflessness at its highest. No matter what it takes, where you have to bring them, what you have to do for them, what trouble you have to get them out of, how you have to be there for them,

what christening you have to get. Just you got to immerse yourself. We really, I never liked that word family, but it is kind of like a family, you know, at this point. And I think it's not a technical thing. I think everybody, go to YouTube. Everybody's got technique now, right? I mean, you know, another conversation we had the other day, like I listen, you know, sometimes even with you guys, like I listen to, like if you're looking at one of my fighters,

like sometimes I don't even know what you're talking about. Like, you know, like Favola's laughing. He's like, they said I put up my hands to draw out the low attack. It looks that way after the fact, but, you know, if you're telling me that during the fight, like, look, I think he's trying to draw him out, that's different. But it's always easy to go back and look. Yeah, we just talk bullshit into these microphones.

No, it's just a fight. I listened to somebody one time with Ia Quinton. I'm like, I don't even know what the guy's talking about. Like, you know, I think when you look at it after the fact, you could come up with, look, he must be setting them up. It makes sense, but that's not really what's happening. You know what I mean? We did the thing with Frivola, just to go back on that.

I said, if he beats you, he beats you with his right hand. We're not letting this guy win with his left hand. That's all he throws. That's where his power is. I go, you're going to lose. You lose to the other hand. And that's what we just focused on taking away is his cross. And I think that's what happened.

So I would even, and I would tell Favola, you get punched in the head with that cross, you fight your right hand back. He can't get his hand back in time. So I'd smack him in the head. He comes back with the right. So now Dober's going low. I go, oh my God, he's setting him up. You know, he's going low because he wants to fake him out and go high.

And that would have been the first adjustment I made. But he throws low. Favola follows that cross back with a right, and he's got power. Dude, he's got balls. He's got balls. You know this. He's got balls. Look, he's your fighter.

You're ready to bring this kid to a title. But, like, what do we not know about Matt Favola up to this point? The thing we don't know is he's still growing, and he's still understanding the fight game. Like, after he lost to McKinney, he'll tell the story, but I grabbed him because I probably wasn't giving him that much. I'm not letting you go out like this.

You're too talented. Now you just go right back to basics. Do you understand? Can you lead a guy into punches? Can you walk him around? You can't just go running in with your fucking head and think that, you know, he's the guy with the bayonet you know the first guy getting killed you know what i mean so now he's starting to think you see he's moving a little bit yeah his awareness he's

looking you know timing got his timing got better i make him i go look i start a boxing class a guy you guys are all boxing right i mean where does everybody get knocked out with is it anything special it's a good one two or hook cross i mean it's not rocket science that would be the next are all boxing, right? I mean, where does everybody get knocked out? Is it anything special? It's a good one-two or a hook-cross. I mean, it's not rocket science. That would be the next thing I would tell the coach. You know, it's not really

rocket science, man. You could just stick to the basics, you know? But, and I made Frivol, he didn't like it. He hated the boxing class. Not only box, but, you know, I cut off the octagon in fours.

So there's no place to go. You're going to deal with getting hit, sitting in that fucking pocket, and then coming back. Well, we're going to have a problem. You know, even Aljo, he hates the class. But he does do it, and I think it made him better, you know, because they can do everything. Favola can do everything.

Aljo can do everything. You know, Favola can wrestle. His jiu-jitsu is not bad. He's a good kicker. He's a good puncher. But if you're not using your head, what good is it? You're wasting your tools. Do you work with Billy Q as well?

I don't. I mean, I've had him in the gym a couple of times. But no, I'd love to work with Billy. We love that guy, Billy Quarantillo. You cannot dislike Billy Q. He's one of those guys. I'd love to see him in the gym. I think he would benefit tremendously because that 35 to 55 were really deep. Where'd we go with that one?

I want to ask this question because I feel like it's really important in this way. Like people who are very associated with a certain part of the world. I've one time heard Jerry Seinfeld explain what he loved about New York. And he meant New York City and probably more Manhattan than anything else, but he's a Long Island guy. He knows the story, but he was explaining what he loved about New York. What do you love about Long Island? Tell me about what is great about Long Island, man. I think, uh, I just love the people on Long Island. Um, you know, I think, uh, you know, where I went, I grew up in a real blue collar area. I just,

I loved the grit of Long Island dealing with like Hurricane Sandy and, you know, 9-11, everybody banding together. I guess it's just where I grew up and I don't think I could leave, you know, like, you know, Al Jazeera, you got to come to Vegas, you know, Weidman, you know, North Carolina. I don't know, man. I think I'm stuck in New York. I don't know. Maybe it's, you know. Here's what I mean. I one time asked, like, Greg Jackson, like, why does Albuquerque work for you?

He was saying, like, the desert kind of steals you. You know, over time, you have to have a biological answer for the harshness of the desert, and they would immerse themselves in that. And that's what he believed was a part of his success. But, of course, you don't have a desert in Long Island. You have wonderful beaches and all kinds of things. So, like, what is it that makes you guys what you are being from that area? It could be, like, you know, because half the year, you know,

you get out of your car and you're a foot deep in snow. It hardens you. You want to kill somebody, you know. You deal with, you know, adverse heat. You deal with adverse, you know, coldness. Everything's aggressive. Everything is. Everything's in your face.

But where I disagree is I really, and when I'm out, like if I go away, I, look, I try hard to be a nice guy. I don't, you know, I mean, you got to work at it too. But you're not, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't like when I hear like New Yorkers suck. I don't feel that at all. No, New Yorkers don't suck, but their method of communication, people who don't know it, seems rough. Yeah, because here's what I'm going to say.

So I'm in a gym. I got Dagestanis. I got Georgians. I got guys from Israel. We could all get along. They're all great guys. That's one of the things I love about coaching. I get to talk to different cultures.

And, you know, one guy's father was just telling me, like, even during, like, the Cuban Missile Crisis or whatever or something, like, they were shitting in their pants. They thought we were going to bomb them. We think, you know, we're shitting in our pants. And you get to just, you know, meet different people and culturally get to, you know, see where they're coming from. That's what I love about it.

It's a melting pot, you know, and you get all these combinations of, you know, cultures coming at you. And I think, you know, you grow from that. You evolve from that. You know, even, you know, my wife being Cuban. I mean, I love it. You know, I mean, I love, you know, embracing, you know, her cube. I really respected her parents. They came here with nothing. They had to escape. They made a great life

for themselves and were very successful. I might not agree with them, but I 100% respected them. And I love the immigrant mentality. You know what I mean? Almost like talking to my grandfather years ago. I loved that. That's the culture you brought. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's not an insult.

I feel like you could be the guy working at my local diner, and I'd be like, you know, that's Ray. You know, you bring that to high-level mixed martial arts because it's who you are and the only way you know. And I think there's, you know, it's a refreshing. Thank you. Yeah. I guess, you know, like, again, every Sunday in the Bronx,

that's a different animal altogether. My father was just born and bred. He couldn't get, you know, he Sunday in the Bronx, that's a different animal altogether. My father was just born and bred. He couldn't get, you know, he loved the Bronx. And all my relatives there, those Sunday dinners were insane. People are getting stabbed, reaching for an extra sausage. I mean, I don't know. And I guess that's what mold you and builds you. And as you grow up, you start associating with like people, I think.

So, you know, I always said, like, Sarah, Sarah was funny. He was an Italian guy. He loved all of that shit. You know, whatever. You got any cool Studio 54 stories? You and Andy Warhol in the shadows? No, no Studio 54. What was that?

White Lightning or what? I used to love, what was it? Cafe Iguana was big. I don't know if you remember that place. That was a smaller place. Where else did we go? Infinities, I think. I don't know. Whoever the good narcotics were.

I was never a big drug guy until more recently. I started smoking just to get to bed. Hey, hey, hey. You're a weed guy? I love it. I think it's... Boy, look at you on the OG Kush chem dog.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. You never catch me during the day doing any of that shit, it's... Boy, look at you on the OG Kush chem dog track. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Whatever. It's only, like, you never catch me during the day doing any of that shit, but I want to sleep. I really value sleep as, like, a huge factor in good health. Especially as you get, like, you know... 100%.

Yeah, but... That's it's you. You're a baby first of all. Hey. I'm telling you. I'm a poorly maintained baby. Yeah, okay. His white hair is all over, though. This is a mess over there. Well, I got to say, Coach, I want to wrap up here. It's one thing that's kind of funny.

I will say that we talked to you for a while, but something was circulating recently on social media about you, which was, you know, it's kind of unfortunate we don't have an independent MMA Hall of Fame. We have a UFC Hall of Fame, which I'm not bagging on. Sarah's in it and deserves to be in it, right? But there's no place for the coaches, man. And I got to say, if there was one, holy shit, Ray, you'd be first ballot Hall of Fame if we had anything to do with it.

I mean that. The proof is in the pudding at that Mama Pop shop you got over there. It's one thing just to get lucky to cross paths with it. The proof is in the pudding at that mom and pop shop you got over there. It's one thing just to get lucky to cross paths with Sarah. You have to say without a doubt. Yeah, that's another good point. But then to get Weidman

and now to get Aljo and all these other guys who also like Al Iaquinto. We didn't even talk about him. He had a great career too. One of my favorites. Yeah, unbelievable. You're doing something right

over there in Long Island. No, that's good. But again, I think Matt really set the tone and I think I put up a post about it, but he set the tone for all of these guys to live and dream big and they could become champions. And I think that's why people came to the, for the, to the gym, partly because of that too. And it just, you know, it kept snowballing. So it's not just me, it's synergistically, it's all the guys like, you know, sometimes a guy will come

to me with a, like he got knocked out. I talk to Matt. He went through it. He'll tell you. He'll walk you right through that. I think that's the beauty of the gym. Anything that has happened to anybody, like even when Aljo suffered that loss to Marlon, you got a guy that you respect that you can go back and talk to. Not some guy chirping in your ear that never did anything or anything.

I think that's all the experiences we have, I think, help everybody in the gym. I mean, that's the way I'm looking at it. So, like, again, I'm the front man, but I would never want to take credit for, you know, like, I'm taking some credit just for being a guy, a conduit of information maybe and steering you in the right direction. But these guys are all individuals, and they all bring something different to the table. And that's other thing i would tell anybody you've asked me after the coaching everybody's different like i heard a guy talking about he was talking about me one time he's like

i just don't know where that gym's coming from you know this guy you know he kicks this it's not like alpha male where everybody has a good front choke it's i'm like you fucking dummy like you know i'm i'm working with the attributes I have in front of me. That's the way I look at it. How can I enhance Weidman's wrestling through his striking? I don't want to change him into a Golden Gloves boxer. It would be nice, you know, to have everything. But, you know, that's the thing.

So everybody has to be trained differently. Everybody's going to look different because I'm not going to cookie-cut them like that. I'm going to go to where I think their strengths are and try to enhance it as much as possible. I love when he says the F word. It's just my thing. We were light on the F word today.

You never know when the next, you know, Chris Weidman's going to walk through your door. So what if next weekend, you know, fresh-faced kid comes in and he says, Coach Ray, man, I want to win season two of Power Slap on Rump. Yes. Would you tell him to get the fuck out of my gym? That guy would get smacked right in the face.

We'd find out how good his smack is, how he could take a smack. That's brutal. Listen, somebody says, look, I had a champ in my 40s, I had a champ in my 50s, I have a champ in my 60s. I don't even know if I'm making it to 70. I told Nas,

I go, you're going to do something, do it now because we ain't I told Nas, I go, dude, you're going to do something. Do it now because we ain't waiting until 70, man. Come on. They're going to have to remove you from that gym one day, right? I think at this point I did want to get out, but I don't know if I can. I do think it's keeping me young. I love bullshit. Freddie Roach is still doing it.

Yeah, I love busting balls with the younger guys, and, you know, everything's changed. I'm just trying to really embrace where I am now, whatever. Freddie Roach is still doing it. Yeah, I love busting balls with the younger guys. Everything's changed. I'm just trying to really embrace where I am now. I'm definitely different. That's why I was trying to tell somebody. I'm not as hands-on as I was 10 years ago because I can't. I got to get a hip replacement or something.

I don't know. I still mentally feel great. I really feel everything, but I thought I was going to beat this arthritis. I don't think it's not. You know, you hold out until as long as you can. You ever see him carry me down the stairs from there? I think that's not looking good. So, but, you know, I do look. Yeah, and that's another thing.

No TRT. I'm trying to do everything natural. I got to cave into that TRT. Yeah, look at Sarah. Hey, I'm on the couch today. I mean, 2013, Vitor Belfort was a work of art. You know, unfortunately, Weidman put him away, but I mean, it was a thing of beauty, right?

We'll listen to that. You know, wait, I know you want to cut this out, but you know what's funny? Before the Belfort fight, Dana and Novinsky, they go, we got to talk to you. We're in the bathroom. I go, this can't be good. We're having a conversation in the bathroom with somebody watching the door.

They're telling me what. Is there an eight ball in that bathroom too or no? They're saying that Vito's testosterone was like 12. I don't even, you know, I still to this day don't know what the point of the conversation was. All I know is we got out there, Weidman was fuming. And then when he got up there, he said, I'm going to fucking make you pay for the testosterone. You know, so I figure that's a little story.

We had a lot of other good stories. He had the same issue before he fought Jones in Toronto or wherever that Canadian city was that they had that fight. He had super elevated testosterone. They moved to fight. It's a dirty business. So what do we think?

Billy Joel, Jones beach this summer you know we'll get out we'll just you know jones beach is a great place for classes yeah are you gonna give an extra ticket to douglas crosby or and uh what a thing of that man let me just ask this one wait let me tell you something with sarah's fight against gsp I'm up on the octagon, and they start flashing the judges. And I see his... This is a true story. I see his name. I look at him.

I go, Matt, you got to knock this motherfucker. So you knew back then of the legend of Douglas Crosby. Well, because he was... This isn't new. This went back to when Matt lost to BJ Penn. I had a buddy of mine go, yeah, you want to talk to the judge that scored it for BJ? I go, absolutely not.

That didn't stop him. He was right in there, and I go, dude, get the fuck away from me. And it just was downhill ever since then. But that was at the BJ Penn fight. But I remember going to Matt, dude, you got to knock this motherfucker out. And he looks up, he goes, I'm airing this shit out.

He was just, he had nothing to lose. Sarah is, you know, once he had nothing to lose sarah is sure he you know once he got past to that point i think and i think that's where round joe's at he doesn't care he's gonna go out and be al joe he doesn't give a shit what anybody says he's got his close-knit friends that's all that matters to him i believe and everybody else can you know take a hike but uh they can suck a d, as Luke Thomas would say. They can suck a dick, yeah, if they want. Well, there you go. I mean, that's the full monty.

Just go for it. Coach, we can do this for another three hours, but we know you've got to get going. But let's get you back here sometime. I'd love to, man. This is good. Now I'm used to the couch. I'm ready to go. Now you're all settled in.

Now I know him, too. I feel bad what I said that I wasn't familiar with him. It's okay. He's a piece of shit. No, no, no. I like that. No, this guy's definitely a good guy. I can tell right away. Thanks, Coach. A hundred percent. Well, I like ball busters. It's okay. He's a piece of shit. No, no, no. I like that. This guy's definitely a good guy. I can tell right away. 100%.

Like ball busters. That's the thing. That's why I get along with Anthony Smith. He could be my head coach. Smith is a great guy. I love that guy. When I open my gym one day, Factory Town MMA, you know, Ray will be like my, you know, I'll bring him in to consult. Fair enough. Here we go, folks.

One of the best to ever do it. Ray Longo. Thanks, guys.