MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Resume Review: Israel Adesanya's Path to Jan Blachowicz | Morning Kombat

Episode Date: March 2, 2021

Luke Thomas and Brian Campbell are here to do a deep dive on Israel Adesanya's resume ahead of his UFC 259 fight with Jan Blachowicz. The guys go fight by fight through Adesanya's UFC run and discuss everything leading up to his chance to become champ champ on March 6th. ---------------------------- 'Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit: store.sho.com   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat  To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Rise to rewards with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card. Terms and conditions apply. At UFC 259, one gentleman is looking to become the first ever undefeated champ champ. The other one is looking to not really defend his title, but get the long way to respect that maybe he's been due all this time. Hello, everyone. My name is Luke Thomas and welcome to our resume review of sorts for the gentleman aforementioned when I set this all up. 259, great fight no matter who wins, but there is one guy, Israel Adesanya, he is the only

one of the two participants looking to get two titles, or at least add his second one anyway, and he is doing it from a position where if he does it, he not only becomes the fifth in company history to hold two titles simultaneously, but he would be the first one to be undefeated. Pretty interesting. To help us talk about how he got to this position is a man you know quite well. He is my co-host on Morning Combat. We are both from CBS Sports. He is down in the rich port known as Puerto Rico. It's Brian Campbell. Hi, Brian.

How are you? Yeah, from San Juan with love here. Thank you. We've been able to figure out the technology to make this work, despite me flying all the way here without my laptop. But, Luke, we will not talk about that because I have had to make a blood pack that I will not linger for more than an hour on all things Adesanya so can we get down to brass tacks here brother all right so as everyone knows UFC 259 it'll be the first fight for Adesanya in 2021 but let's rewind we did this with Conor

McGregor BC but now I want to do it with Adesanya he takes on Jan Blachowicz now Jan has had a much longer tenure in UFC and frankly frankly, not as altogether distinguished, losing four of his first six UFC fights. But what makes Adesanya so interesting, BC, is that he is undefeated, not merely in UFC, but in MMA more generally. Do you recall the first time as a MMA reporter that Adesanya crossed your path, so to speak, not maybe literally, well, it could be that as well,

but the first time you heard of him in a memorable way, or was it the first fight with Wilkinson, which we'll talk about in just a second? Yeah, I mean, look, we're talking about a guy who's only been in the UFC for three years, and this has been as ridiculously impactful, a three-year run, more critically than commercially, although he's catching up fast on there.

And I think it was that Wilkinson fight where you heard people saying, oh, this is that badass kickboxer. a three-year run more critically than commercially although he's catching up fast on there and I think it was that Wilkinson fight where you heard people saying oh this is that badass kickboxer there may be the kind of big long-term potential people weren't talking about you know a John Jones level whereas you know John Jones first couple UFC fights you were already getting people going man it's early but I feel like this could really be the guy. This was more of just an interest in somebody coming from another, you know, realm of the combat game and, and having that kind of potential to,

to be, to be a star that will, that Wilkinson fight, which we'll get into is certainly a hell of a hello, but I did, I did not follow his glory run. I had not heard of him until the buzz ahead of that debut, where I remember specifically him

being a betting favorite now his debut came in the 11th of February 2018 by the way the point you alluded to I think it's quite interesting if you look at his uh level of activity he had four fights in his calendar year inside 2018 he had three in 2019, only two in 2020. What's an interesting observation, I believe, heading into Saturday is that you're watching Adesanya's workload slowly taper as he gets higher and higher up the game, which only makes sense. You can only do so much at the highest level in terms of activity once you get to the championship level. And by the way, six of those fights took place in a full-on calendar year so from February to February be that as it may let's talk about that Wilkinson debut because what was interesting

about Adesanya BC is that my recollection is I even worked for Glory I think I got out just before Adesanya got there and what's interesting is he did not necessarily have the pedigree of a champion it wasn't like a guy who had held a glory title, although there's some dispute about maybe he should have, depending on how the fights have gone. But he didn't have the ADCC champion, the kickboxing champion. But the hardcores kind of told us that this was a guy to pay attention to. And what I remember from that fight was he looked good on the feet.

He stuffed the takedowns. When it went downhill for Wilkinson, it went downhill quickly. But the thing I really recall was afterwards, on the mic with John Anik in the show in Perth, Australia, and saying, I'm the new dog in the yard. I know all of you are looking at my Instagram. You know exactly who I am. Really being confident and calling out basically everybody. Yeah, basically saying, yeah, you know, I'm the new dog in the yard and I just pissed all over this octagon. Luke, it was February 11th, 2018 UFC two 21 from Perth. If I didn't have the buzz coming in besides knowing him as that kickboxer guy

who could be flashy and good, am I wrong in hindsight? In which I did go ahead of this, this video, go back and rewatch this Rob Wilkinson fight. This looked a lot more than like Anderson Silva versus Rich Franklin or Anderson Silva versus Chris Lieben than I remember. Now, it wasn't as quick as the Lieben, but in terms of just one fighter coming in and just kicking the shit out of the other fighter in such an impactful way.

Maybe Jon Jones, Mauricio Hua is another considerable, you know, examination there, even though that was obviously for a title. But, I mean, it was one-sided. It was brutal. Yes, Wilkinson gave Adesanya some of the necessary challenges that you would want to see from him because, you know, what became a theme over his first, you know, half of his UFC run so far was the whole idea of what if a true wrestler gets

in there and puts him on his back. Same thing Conor McGregor had in that initial rise as well. So I thought, you know, even compared to the fights that took place after this, his grappling ability, his ability to get up after taking down, his ability to work the standing clinch against a six foot three strong fighter and Wilkinson was all very strong, but Luke, it was that sustained ass kicking, just brutal, violent, busting open the face. You're just waiting for the referee to jump in. That was my lingering, you know, feeling at that time going, Holy crap. Like there's some Anderson Silva like feelings here watching this guy do this.

It was interesting to go through the first two fights. When you hear him compared by the commentators, both either Cormier admitting the Vittori fight, which we'll talk about in just a moment, or asking to bring in Adesanya for the Jones fights before Adesanya was a known commodity to MMA or UFC fans, and then saying he bristled at the idea that he was the next Jon Jones. You can see now the Jon Jones comparisons actually in retrospect seem kind of silly.

They're very different fighters. Obviously, there's some similarities with their frame and whatnot, but in terms of how they fight, not at all the same. You could see early then where some of the tension might come from, but I certainly share your enthusiasm for how the Wilkinson fight went. For some reason, that didn't capture my imagination as good as it was. You could see he moved so well, good footwork, good defense, slick, the whole nine,

but that by itself didn't capture my imagination. It was more the total package. And so it brings us a little bit, unless you have more to say about the Wilkinson fight. It didn't happen. It was on a UFC card, but it was more of a let's get to know him. But what's interesting is BC, he turned right around from February to April. He goes

into the Vittori fight. Vittori is now known as a guy who is obviously a force to be reckoned with at 185 pounds and did good work, but had a bit of a stumble in the third round, getting taken down and kind of held down for a long period of time what do you remember about this fight well i remember that's why i brought up the whole point about the wilkinson fight being such a like oh shit like what do we really have here and it wasn't just the you know the violent nature of walking him down and then you know what you mentioned was that call out in the cage after the wilkinson fight i mean look that that's about as bold as you get for a guy making his debut in the UFC. And so I had such a high feeling coming into the Vittori fight

that this was the, hey, reach out to the other guys in your friend circle and say, you might want to tune in and check this guy out. I certainly had those moments ahead of the Vittori fight. And I remember specifically, Luke, being almost disappointed. Not that he didn't, not that he wasn't the rightful and deserving winner and not that all in all, he didn't have a plus performance, which I think he did despite that third round moment, those moments on the ground that you're talking about. I just kind of

expected based on the performance in the first fight that we may be onto something extra special. This slowed that role. But I think as we're going to find out with not only this fight, but some of the others that followed, he needed this one. He needed to kind of find out exactly where he was, Luke, because you go back and watch this. I got a couple of things to point out. One, I mean, Vittorio in that first round was alive. He was cutting off the cage.

He was quick and explosive. He didn't fear anything that Adesanya was bringing back at him. So you had to see an Adesanya that could not, you know, get out to a lead, control distance, and kind of do Adesanya things. You saw him in sort of fight mode right off the start. That was as key, Luke, as I think the third round where he had some legitimate challenges on his back. And I think it was Dominic Cruz on the call who really kind of called him

out for it in a constructively critical way, but really was sort of like, if you're that guy, you've got to be able to get off the mat because what you're showing us in response to being taken down, these are not wrestling moves you're trying to get up. You're just trying to, you know, panic and get up. So I think the one other point I want to make is you've, in recent years when we bring up this fight and we mentioned, hey, split decision, man, it was close.

Vittori was able to do things against a young adesanya at least young in his ufc maturity that no one really has been able to do and you are always the guy going look it may have been a split decision but i think i think izzy had that comfortably you know i go back luke i almost got this 37 27 across the board from i mean I mean, look, in the end, you can give, you can give a Vittoria the last round because he did take out of Sonia down. Luke, he did nothing offensively when he did have out of Sonia down. So I'm really not trying to turn this into a city cuck boxing fan fest, but I will tell you this on out of Sonia in hindsight, this win looks a lot better.

They may end up rematching one day down the line, especially if out of Sonanya stays at middleweight because of the storyline here and because I do think Vittori has, you know, reemerged after some hiccups to really find out how good he could be. But go back and watch this fight, man. He was in it from the beginning. He showed he can swim in these waters. And even with those wrestling deficiencies, Luke, he needed it.

He needed to sort of, you know, figure out what he needed to work on. And we never have seen these moments that we saw here in round three again. What was interesting about this fight is, I think you adequately summarize it. Listen, if you want to give the third round to Vittori, I think you can. Certainly there were moments in the first two rounds. It was interesting for Vittori. He was not totally out of it. But in general, the story heading into the third round,

Cormier was talking about it as the commentator. There was hardly any takedown attempts from Vittori. And more to the point, if they're fighting at this range in general over time, it was Vittori who was going to get pieced up. It was a reminder of what Adesanya could do. But I actually think that the legacy, BC, of the Wilkinson and the vittori fight at that time is what it basically did was set up the next chapter of his career from a narrative standpoint

and by that i mean there was a lot of hype from among among combat sports insiders about adesanya coming to ufc he beats wilkinson in a drubbing but you know no one really knew how much uh how good his opponent was then he goes against Vittori, and at the time, I don't think people really understood how good Vittori was. So the first two fights set up a bit of a narrative, if you wanted to buy into it. Mercifully,

we saw around it, but there were plenty of people who didn't, suggesting that, you know what, this guy might be a little bit overrated. No, no question about that, Luke. I really want to echo that I was straight up from almost a just a fan point of view almost disappointed in this you know like when it happened again in hindsight I don't think it actually looks as bad in that moment I thought he was gonna you know gonna have to walk this guy down why and do it spectacularly because

he just said in the cage the fight before that I'm here, I'm going to piss all over you guys. And I don't think one thing we set up this Vittori fight was April, 2018. It was on a key UFC on Fox quarterly, you know, post-up card, Poirier and Gaethje in the main event, which was good. God must see. And you had this as, you know, the third fight on the main card, a very featured slot. I think UFC just the same was like, oh shit, do we really have another Anderson Silva who kind of reminds us of John Jones, who talks a lot of McGregor like shit. They only had one fight to sort of see what they had there, Luke. That was spectacular. I think in a lot of categories, this was sort of a, in the moment, a very muted performance, which adequately set up that narrative that you're talking about that, oh my God, you know, this guy may be flashy,

but take them down and you're going to see a different story. Right. So I think it's set up two different realities. When I say realities, I shouldn't, maybe two different, one reality, one narrative, and they were in contrast to one another. The narrative, as we've established, was coming out of these two fights, okay, he's obviously skilled on the feet, but, you know, not so skilled. He didn't have any one hitter quitters.

You know, Wilkinson just kind of folded when he folded. Vittori was there all the way through. So it's like, how good is he really? Plus, you have these wrestling deficiencies it was imagined heading into now the Brad Tavares fight. Still 2018. In fact, just five months or so beyond his initial debut. But now he's in the main event so a couple things are happening

here bc one he's turning around very quickly two he is escalating up the card now in the main event slot now this was the card that was the day before cormier miocic won ufc 226 in fact i know that because the day after that fight on a saturday morning i was there in las vegas we covered that fight that night for Sirius XM and then the next day after he won which we'll talk about uh he actually came and did our post-fight show I think it was me and Misha Tate he joined us for like an hour at this bar where we were having a show and he was as friendly said he would accommodate the entire show if we wanted it was an interesting moment but the reason beyond just that that it sets up those two things that i mentioned earlier is because here's what the tavarez fight revealed on the 6th of july in

2018 number one bc he won it and he won in spectacular fashion over a proven uh battle tested veteran he styled the entire time dropped the guy multiple times and more to the point it revealed that the concerns about him being overrated were just ramping up more and more as well as the narrative that he is getting better very quickly yeah and i and i like you i didn't i didn't realize you had you were at this fight luke this was the ultimate fighter card as you said the night before this was also the main event five rounds so this was certainly you know a bit of a double down UFC going, what do we have in the sky? Let's put him in the main event here.

And Luke, rewatching this broadcast yesterday, I was surprised. I didn't realize that this was basically a virtual pick-em fight, odds-making wise. So that shows you how much sort of the momentum was muted just to a degree in how close the Vittori fight was, where even the oddsmakers are saying, look, I know, I know Brett Tavares was at a different point in his career, but you know, they liked him a lot in this fight. So to have Adesanya come in and do what you said, he masterfully controlled distance. Luke, I was sitting cage side. I actually was two seats over from his parents. And it was kind of a kick because, you know, we just getting to

know Adesanya as journalists at that point, maybe only known a few fun soundbites. And then you see his, you know, his older aged parents sitting there, very distinguished looking and proper. And then the moment they announced his name in the cage, Luke, they went ape shit. I mean, they just went crazy. It was great to see sort of the pride that unfortunately Rob Thomas does not show Morning Combat in honor of you, but you know, shout out to the Thomas family, just the same. And what Adesanya was able to do in there, I mean, just pick apart, focus on the face. I mean, just busting up the eye, bloodying him. It was masterful.

He didn't spend the fight on his back. And, oh, by the way, he went five hard rounds at a high pace and looked like, you don't want to say championship ready because that's still so early in his rise even though it would be just a couple more fights before he would fight for an interim championship but I think he rounded out some of those edges really uh really profoundly in that fight and just how dominant he was that was the first fight BC tell me if you agree that was the first time you not only got a real good look at his ability like oh right when he's when he's doing his thing he's gonna be a lot better than a lot of his

contemporaries at this that you that was the first time i got that and that was the first fight where i began to really imagine possibility that was the first time where i was like okay wait a second to your point i don't know if a title is to be a thing or how soon or what. Because those things are just so hard to really piece together. But I did begin to think, BC, after this fight, when he had his hand raised, that was the very first time I was like, dude, this is somebody who can do things in a very, very special way. I did not necessarily have that exact same feeling after the Vittori fight, despite how good the performance might have been.

That's a great point. And just to back up on the odds and Tavares, Luke, he was coming in on a four fight win streak. So he was pretty hot there. He'd been knocked out by Robert Whitaker. And then Tavares went on to beat Magalhase, Teodoru, Leitis, and Jocko. So, you know, some solid wins to get back to that point. But even though he caught Adesanya's chin a couple times, I mean, there was almost nothing negative to say about this fight. I mean, it was just completely, complete dominance. So, well done, too,

when they give you the ball in a, you know, in a fairly strong position as a headliner. And even though that fight card, I don't know if you remember being there, Luke, that dragged on deep into the night. That was a long-ass night at the office there, but we got to see a little bit of the beginning, Luke, firsthand. Well, to the point, I mean, some of the numbers in this fight are remarkable.

Brad Tavares won for 12 on takedown attempts, won for 12. Only landed 40 significant strikes. Adesanya landed 120. You know, doing multiples of what he was doing. I have to say also at this point, BC, you got to give credit to UFC where credit is due. We'll criticize them when the time is right. We'll give them credit when the time is right as well.

We had the same conversation, slightly different terms, obviously, with the McGregor resume review. But here with this one, one of the key, obviously McGregor had the injury with his leg, but in terms of getting him out there as much as possible, when the moment was right, they did that here. They kept this guy in very quick rotation. He wanted to stay active and the matchmakers, if they want to favor you in this way, they will. And they allowed this guy to get better very quickly. Obviously he did the

work, but what I'm saying is to showcase it and to build him into a star in a very rapid fashion. They recognized that they had someone here and they kept him in frequent rotation as a consequence. Last note about the Brad Tavares fight, BC, before we move on. When he won

this, I believe that is when, as I mentioned before, the before the echoes of oh he might be overrated were were a function of the pre-fight build into the tavaris fight but as good as he looked stuffing takedowns landing at will styling on him the whole nine yards that is when his next fight which by the way we're still in 2018. Remarkable to think about this, was the Derek Brunson fight. This one was at Madison Square Garden, New York City, UFC 230. And I'll never forget, I had, I'm sure you talked to him many times that week as well. I had Brunson, I spoke to him.

I had Adesanya on the MMA Hour, which I was hosting at the time. And I remember that the anti-Israel Adesanya is good crowd. This was not saying their peak BC, but this was when they became quite noticeable. Well, it's not only was it their peak, this may have been their last stand. Now look, there's still haters out there that'll tell you, look, I hated a little bit after the Anderson Silva fight.

You know what I mean? There's haters that tell you, how'd you go five ridiculous rounds with Gastelum when he hasn't done anything since then. So's always going to be haters but luke i think this was the last stand of where the adesanya haters not only rose high quickly but were clinging to the idea that a wrestler is going to come in and solve them and that derrick brunson would be that guy you know with the mix of the striking and just the old school grind specifically mentioned uh remember excuse, being at media

day, you know, interviewing both guys. It was a New York card fourth fight in nine months. I mean, this is just a hell of a way to kick it off. But I also, that was the first time I interviewed him to specifically write a feature about him, Luke. And in the one-on-one without a sign, he really just blew me away with the, uh, the quickness of his way. You know, he did the whole ready player one stick about how they're still loading. And I'm, you knowness of his way. You know, he did the whole ready player one shtick about how they're still loading. And I'm, you know what, I don't know his, he was speaking video game code, Luke, I would need my kids to, to really be able to, uh, you know, break that down for me. But you saw that, that look, this guy has on the mic, some real long-term potential

here. He just gets it and sees the game a different way, just the way he was talking about how this fight was going to go. And I think the biggest takeaway I had was that Luke, he was doubling and tripling down on the idea that, oh, you think I'm going to get solved by wrestling? Watch this fight on Saturday night, watch what happens. And I interviewed Brunson a few moments later in that media day, and he said the same thing. This guy's not going to be able to live on his back. You're going to see what happens. Luke, when we got into the cage that night at old MSG, which was a little bit of a muted MSG card, you had DC and Derek Lewis on top. The other big fights they had been trying to didn't really come to fruition. So even though Derek Lewis definitely brought in some B-side love and people love seeing Cormier,

you know, by the time this fight card came around, you know, it was almost like Adesanya was certainly the people's main event, to quote a Canadian. But this was certainly – he was becoming the star of this show and the lead in Luke. Like this was going to be his close-up moment. And everything he freaking said about takedown defense and wrestling was on point.

Luke, the control he had in this fight was just next level. Watching him, this was the second time I'd seen him in person, but you know what it's like when you get a great seat, or maybe you don't, Luke, knowing your history, but when you get the John Morgan seat, Luke, and you can see not just the owning of distance, not just the way that he was just manipulating Brunson emotionally and talking trash in such subtle ways. But, Luke, that was like, you know, a maestro at the opera. I mean, the control he had on everything that was happening in that cage, I think that's the moment, whereas the Tavares one was so solid

and thorough, we're like, man, I mean, how quick can we get him in a title shot because we're getting there. This was the moment where I was like, we're seeing something super special here. We're seeing somebody who understands this game at a different level. And that was something, again, that I saw teases of in the destruction of Wilkinson, but hadn't really seen again. And maybe for the benefit of Adesanya, Luke,

maybe, again, he needed to go five rounds with Tavares. He needed to get his wrestling checked against Vittori because it all came together against Brunson in a way that was like, show me this guy's holes. Please show me it, Luke. Do you have any holes? This was the first time where I could look at his resume and I was like, dude, they keep giving this guy tougher and tougher challenges. And whatever backsliding you want to say happened in the Vittori fight, start from there. From Vittori to Tavares to now Brunson, the challenges were escalating and his performances were getting better each time.

He wasn't staying level like, oh, I can keep up with the UFC's demands of me. He was beginning to exceed them even as they didn't even get the same. They got much more difficult. He went five rounds with Tavares. He ran through Derek Brunson like a freight train, perfectly timing the knee. You even saw a certain moment in the fight, as short as it was. And remember, this one did not go very long, only four minutes and 51 seconds into the first round.

I'll never forget, there was a moment Derek Brunson was desperate to get a takedown on Israel Adesanya and was holding his shorts to do it, and it shows up really quite badly, like desperate to get it. And I'm not saying that Derek Brunson is some kind of known cheater. What I mean to say is he may have been feeling the pressure. He may have not – I mean, they may have locked up up once or twice and he realized, oh, this guy is stronger or not what I thought or something. Something went through his mind that I think instinctually made a guy like that

want to grab the shorts of a guy who was a kickboxer. There's a bigger narrative here too, BC, which is that not only did Adesanya shine through escalation, got a huge stoppage on a major card, right? So now you're answering the, not just a call of what the challenge is in front of you, but the promotional call.

We're going to give you bigger stages. This is your chance to make a big statement. And he kept doing it. There's something else though. It's a little bit unfair to say that the history of kickboxers coming over to MMA is not as decorated as the amount from wrestling, in part because there's not the same amount of populations.

There have been thousands of wrestlers who have come over. I don't know if there's been thousands of kickboxers from a high level who have matriculated over to MMA, but the lesson was kind of, I was like, those guys can do well, but they tend to not often do as well. And he was beginning to really show that that was something of outdated thinking. Other ones before him, I want to point out, had done that. But you go back to the pride days, like Stefan Laco, these are just guys who are not built to do well.

You fast forward 15 years, and all of a sudden, kickboxers, again, Adesanya's quite special, but part of that larger narrative as well. The last thing I'd say about this fight, as I mentioned, seeing him backstage, and to your point, BC, after the fight was over, he came out to the media lounge. We had a slice of pizza next to each other and talk for a little bit. That was a time just like you. I was like, dude, this guy knows how to fight better than his contemporaries.

At least many of them that he's faced so far. He's meeting all the challenges promotionally. He's meeting all the challenges inside the cage. And then when you talk to him, you really got the sense like this dude is smart. You know, he yeah so than the average bear it's i'm glad that you brought up that situation in the media room afterwards at msg because it was the post-fight press conference there and he owned it luke you know again look above dc and lewis even though they were the main event adesanya held court for a while and i thought

what was interesting in this luke was you know this was his fourth fight and it still hadn't been a calendar year. It'd been nine months. So he hadn't really made a giant commercial impact yet. I mean, they'd given him the main event spot against Tavares and he certainly was starting to deliver incrementally from a marketing standpoint. But even now, Luke, to be really honest with you, even three years now, he hasn't had his bust out crossover moment yet. I think it's been a little bit more of a slow burn and he can get there. Whereas McGregor and Lesnar and even Rousey were like so instantaneous and it just became this snowball that just got bigger and bigger. His had been a slow build and it is still a slow build,

but specifically in that room, I don't know if you remember, he was, he was showing his weird side for the first time. He was also kind of pissing on fans, pissing on critics. At one point, he even kind of pissed on the UFC. He was like, I don't give a fuck. Take away this microphone. There was almost like this defiance that showed me he's different than sort of the traditional trash talker and like a McGregor who did it better than anyone.

And, you know, maybe different than somebody like a Chael Sonnen who's more of a funny guy or different than a Cormier who's a lovable bear. This guy's got this kind of changing skin that I can't really tell if he's hero or villain, but what I can tell is that he takes no shit. He understands his role and his place in this. And he, if somebody can be a global superstar, whereas, you know, representing different countries and kind of, you know, being this giant thing, very few have that potential, Luke. And even though he hasn't fully reached that yet in the first three years, this was the opening for me. This is when those doors open and you're like, you know, this guy could be main eventing pay-per-views for a long

time. Now, to be honest, even at that point though, Luke, one year in 4-0, I wouldn't have guessed he'd be the champion this quick or have this many, you know, uh, thorough victories where we're now talking light heavyweight leap, heavyweight and John Jones down the road. It's really been, you know, even to go just from that one year mark to now, it's been pretty incredible. Yeah. I mean, this will be a thing that we get to as we draw closer to the end of his resume, or at least the moment we're at right now. But I've been a big believer of his for a long time, and he's even exceeded my expectations for what I thought was not so much possible

as an ultimate achievement, but the schedule that he's done it on has been absolutely remarkable. So now, BC, we're out of 2018. I want to remind everyone, he had six fights, or five fights, excuse me, in a calendar year. So we're still within 365 days. But now we move to 2019.

And this was a really interesting fight, BC. They brought him back to the oceanic region. So Australia and New Zealand. Now, this was initially supposed to be the co-main event for UFC 234 in Melbourne, Australia. Melbourne. But it ended up being the main event. Now, you'll recall it was supposed to be Robert Whitaker versus Kelvin Gaskellum, but I will never forget, BC. It was fight day. I certainly was not in Australia. I was eating

at this, I think this Indian place near DuPont Circle here. And I looked at my phone. It's like Rob Whitaker. This is like 3 p.m., dude. And I looked at my phone, East Coast time, and Rob Whitaker was out because he had the stomach issue or whatever it ended up being. And that whole thing was off. And I was like, wow, you've got to be kidding me. So they elevated Anderson Silva versus

Israel Adesanya to the main event. This is a weird moment in his career, BC, because I'll tell you what it meant for me, but I want you to go first. What did you learn from this fight about Adesanya, about this moment? When you think back on what the relevancy is to the resume of Israel Adesanya, what piece of the puzzle is Anderson Silva? I think it's a lot bigger than we realized because what I did focusing on looking back here was the emotional journey that Adesanya kind of went through.

And it was kind of surprising to see. Remember, he was crying. You know, he had tears in his eyes at the weigh-in because I think Anderson Silva was trying his best to get in Adesanya's head and plant any kind of seed through love and respect, but also through, you know, don't forget, I still got something for you. And I really love the stare down between these two in the cage during the referee's instructions, because I think Silva kind of bit down his bottom lip and gave an

evil glare. And it was like one more gut check time for Adesanya. So I think in hindsight, Luke, he learned a lot about himself. It was a weird circumstance. It was a three round main event, yet it was a number one contenders fight. And it didn't really deserve to be one because even though Silva was coming off the only win Luke he's had in seemingly the last decade, uh, that Derek Brunson win for Silva was, uh, questionable in terms of the decision. Then he was out for two years, Luke, right? Didn't he have the, the, you saw the situation. So Silva's first fight back two year break is out of Son in a three-round pay-per-view main event. No, no, no.

He had fought in 2016 against Cormier and Bisping. The break happened between 2013 and 2015 before the Nick Diaz fight. Okay, so was this break the injury one, right? He may have had one after Cormier. I don't think so. I think this was just the first one back. But to your point, by the time he was facing Adesanya, his last one was Brunson, which was February of 2017.

Fine. But before that, it was Bonner in October of 2012. He had a five-year gap between wins. Yeah. I'm just trying to look it up real quick. Yeah, I was right, Luke. He was supposed to fight Gastelum after Brunson, but then is in the moment, and I know you and I argued about this and differed on the MMA beat, I thought this was a lateral to step back performance from Adesanya because he was expected to blow away Silva,

obviously. And what was Silva was what, 43, whatever he was at that point. I'll give Anderson this credit, whatever he had left, and this is in a stretch, Luke, where he's got one win in like 10 fights for all different various reasons. He poured out whatever he had left, right, to avoid getting into too much trouble. And in some moments, including that second round, Anderson was kind of competitive. I may have in real time overscored that. Not scoring it on the scorecards, right? It was a clean, unanimous decision win for Adesanya. But thinking to a certain degree that Anderson had gotten in his head, and maybe that was a gotten in his head

to where Adesanya wasn't going to bite down and go for it and try to hurt and, you know, take down his hero. Because when you're seeing these two start off in the beginning of this fight, it's the Spider-Man meme. I mean, you know, it's the old master against the new one fighting kind of the same style, a lot of head and hand games. And I think in that moment, I thought that not only did he let Anderson off the hook a little bit, I think he was a little bit afraid to get countered. I think he didn't want any trouble. He got to a certain point where Anderson was having more success than Israel thought he would. And then thought, you know what? I'm not going to fuck around here. I'm going to get, I'm just going to get the win, and that's going to be okay. I don't know how much I support that in hindsight from rewatching it, Luke,

and I do agree with a lot of what you said, that there are some sophistications to Adesanya's game that you really have to focus and understand all the traps and mind games he's setting. And in some ways, again, this fight was kind of cool because they're both constantly trying to trap each other, but I don't hold it against Adesanya as much for the fact that it was very tactical for the fact that he didn't finish him or really have Anderson in a ton of

trouble, despite, you know, swelling his eye and kind of damaging him there. Um, I just remember afterwards and tell me again, if I'm wrong, and it's weird that we've had a few of these, not just the Vittori fight, not just the Romero fight, which we're going to talk about, but I felt that he came out of here a little muted from what he should have been, which is he just, he was just put away a legend and is now going to get that title opportunity. I almost felt like there were some, some holes you could pick. Well, this was the fight that you got. I think the Vittori fight, it's a little hard to make this claim, although you could, if you wanted to, but certainly this fight and definitely the Romero fight will show you the limits of Adesanya's game from a um from an I don't even want to say

entertainment standpoint but from an a consistently deliverable entertainment standpoint you know there are some guys like you know who could you pick you know Edson Barboza you know it's going to be pretty hard for Edson Barboza to be in any kind of a fight that's win or lose, you know, a little bit on the muted side. That's just not his game. You know, you can find a lot of guys who are like that, but that can on occasion be Adesanya's game. This one did not live up to the hype at the time for many people, not so much me. And I'll tell you why just a second, because, you know, to your point, was it super thrilling? There was some back and forth moments. There was Adesanya doing the taunting where he was doing like, you know, Keanu Reeves from the matrix and there were some tricks and both guys had a

couple of nice moments. And in the end it was, well, one guy was probably a little bit better than the other guy from the way it looked in terms of damage. So let's give the, the nod to Adesanya. It was supposed to be this like at home in front of Australia and New Zealand crowds. It was supposed to be this like at home in front of Australian New Zealand crowds it was supposed to be this like torch passing the guy who used to do what Adesanya is doing now let's have Adesanya beat him in front of his home audience and you didn't quite get that clean you know baton relay that I think UFC was looking for but I will tell you what the eureka moment was for me this was a fight to your point three rounds I usually like it when fights are three rounds or less because it's actually less time it takes for me to do any kind of fight

breakdown so I was like great just 15 minutes perfect I'll never forget I was going through the tape and this was the very first time I was watching a fighter and I couldn't understand what they were doing I'm like he's obviously got, he's moving with intent. These are all parts of a strategy, but I could not unwrap the language that he was trying to speak in as a sort of a way to put it. And it only took me multiple viewings. And then like, I had to take notes

and then I began to piece together what it was. And then I finally got, and I'm like, this fight was close in the sense that one guy won two rounds, one guy won one. Sure. Okay. Fair enough. But this fight is not close in the sense that one guy won two rounds, one guy won one. Sure. Okay. Fair enough. But this fight is not close in the sense of who is doing something.

Generally speaking, that is not just outside of what his peers at 185 are doing, but the entire sport. If you can build on that thing, he was showing, man, you're going to be able to do a lot with it. The Silva fight was not the best showcase because all that skill is also married, BC. If there is any kind of knock on Adesanya from an entertainment standpoint, it's that

sometimes he'll give you Whitaker, but he also doesn't take any kind of perceived unnecessary risk. So I did pick up on the sophistication, but you also can't lose sight of the fact that he will trade. He will absolutely trade. He's a striker by trade, but he is not going to do something risky or what he perceives to be risky in pursuit of a goal he's going to keep things on his terms as much as he can right and even though he was able to turn back a little bit of that or a lot a bit of that in the next fight against Gaston that we're

going to get into next um again that's Gaston coming at him so that is to your point you know Whitaker coming at him Silva not really coming at him right I mean you remember that that great moment in round three what you were saying where Silva's got his back against the cage thinking best thing I can do is you know slower the distance here and just try to counter this guy and he's trying to lure Adesanya in and he wouldn't take the bait. And so he's not going to go out of his way to go after it when he has the advantage, right? And I think in this one, there was certainly more to lose than gain. So, cause he was expected to win. So I still think to some degree, Luke, there was a reason he had pause. Was it a combination of love and respect?

And you know what? I'm just not going to get caught with something? Like, was this fight harder than it should have been? Than he thought it was, certainly. Because let's not forget, two-year break for Anderson. We had no idea what we were getting from here. Right. Was it harder than it should have been? He put more

safeguards into it than maybe he needed to, which I think slowed it down. I don't think he thought it was hard in that sense, just that he was only going to work within a very, relatively speaking, a narrow set of parameters. I think that's really what ultimately limited him. But it's been part of the story where, again,

every time you think he's going to have that dagger in the heart to his critics about, oh, he's good, but he's overrated. He has one of these moments that's kind of perceived to be, whether that's fair or that's not, a bit of a hiccup. Now, BC, we got to go to you on this one. Let me just say the date, 13 of April, 2019. It's Atlanta, Georgia. This is the co-main event, main event, Max Holloway and Dustin Poirier for the interim lightweight. Your co-main event, Israel Adesanya taking on Kelvin Gastelum for the interim middleweight title. You were there. Imagine someone is not. They're hearing us talk about

Adesanya. Set the stage. Set the stakes for this epic matchup. Well, I could not set the stage any better than wearing this ridiculous orange pullover, Luke, which was the same shirt I wore cage side that night. And you can go watch the tape and see me there. So I bring it out whenever we talk out of Sonia to remember. Yeah, this is where where was I UFC 236? It's a it's a you know, where was I sitting? What do I remember? This is the greatest fight I've ever seen in person boxing or MMA or even greatest moment considering I've sent been to some insane pro wrestling shows, which I know you care nothing about. But look, this is it. This was the crown drool. This was a freaking war, but it was a seesaw battle. There were ebbs and flows. There

were near finishes. There were huge amounts of courage shown. And again, just the co-main event. I actually packaged this, of course, with Holloway Poirier in the main event which was a thriller itself that doesn't get the respect because of how great this co-main was uh Whitaker had pulled out of that Gastelum fight which of course allowed Adesanya to be the main event in the previous pay-per-view and now we just didn't know when he went or if he was coming back Luke so this was dialed up for the interim title and you know what we got here the best version of Kelvin Gastelum that there ever was, and maybe that there ever will be. And Gastelum had been so up and down, inconsistent, a lot of what he still is today, Luke. This was the night he put it all together. He had a hunger and a fire that he wasn't going to back down no matter what was

thrown his way. And he had angles and quickness on that explosion that he does to come in and set up the left hand where he was finding success. It was early that we realized, Luke, that this is brewing into something special. This is an absolute war. And you want to talk about the questions that Adesanya has to answer. It wasn't just enough to have the hiccup against Vittori, but really prove it against Brunson that you're not going to take this guy down if you're a wrestler and manhandle him and have your way. Okay. Then he had to prove right against Tavares that he can go five rounds and be a headliner and control a fight. Then he had to prove against Silva in a lot of ways, Luke, in his pay-per-view headlining opportunity that he could go out on a

big stage and carry it. And that's something we thought maybe he did a little questionably. And now we had to find out if he can go to hell. And what I love about interviewing Adesanya since this fight is I always ask him about this fight. And the gist of what he often says to me, Luke, is that he didn't actually know how much he had in the tank in terms of, you know, can I go five rounds in a life and death battle until he got there? And I think that's realistic. None of us really know how tough we are until we're absolutely tested. There's certain things that you can't fake or, or recreate in training camp or whatever. And he says that, you know, when he got to those fight or flight moments, he was shocked at how much gas he had in the tank and how much just focus he had at how much killer instinct he had. Luke, when he was tested to the ultimate degree here,

he realized he was even better than he thought he was. And that sounds like some, you know, sports movie Rudy bullshit, but it's a real key into figuring out how great this guy is and what his potential is and why we can favor him against the light heavyweight champion and why we can talk about things like going up to heavyweight and not laugh at it. It's moments like this in this fight when he had to raise the bar several times because Gastelum, who somehow doesn't get the credit he deserves in this fight, Luke,

he fought like a world champion and kept coming. And there was that scare with the near submission attempt late. I mean, there was a lot of drama going on in this fight until that last round, the second half of it, when Adesanya was putting it on him. Very few people, Luke, can go through a war like that and be in that much control at the end. And very few guys who are known more as artists or strikers in the sense that they can only be at their best when they're controlling the terms. And in a lot of Adesanya's successes like that, this wasn't like that. This was one of the fights where he had to dig in and absolutely fight for his life. And to find out he's better than we thought he was in that moment, Luke, like there's many aha moments of what we have here in this guy.

Good God. Did this moment tell me a lot about what this man was made of because cage side, it was one of those fights where every strike during that, those chaotic sequences, you're just like, Oh my God. And, uh, this is the guy who's saying, come on, come on, bring it to me. I still love this performance out of him because, uh, I didn't know he had it, Luke. And I didn't know he would have had to have had it in this spot. But Gastelum made him bring it. And you want to talk about activity, Luke?

We are now 14 months into his UFC career, and this is what, his seventh fight? This is insane. And at that point, he had captured a title. Now it's the interim title, but he has a belt around his waist. The thing that sticks out for me about this fight, BC, is you right so gastelum by most accounts won the first adesanya by most accounts won the second and third gastelum won the fourth even rocking him at that point uh but then they go to the fifth and it was between the fourth and the fifth that they get the camera on adesanya's face and you can hear him before the bell rings to start the fifth round he sort of looks over the other corner and says i'm i think i'm either ready or i'm prepared to die you know he actually

mouthed it out loud and that was when it was gut check moment fights up for grabs whoever wins this takes the whole thing and one guy just said i wanted a little bit more and he showed flair finishing ability poise cardio he'd been really busted up in this fight. His face was already swelling. It was a mess by the time he wanted to talk to people, the media afterwards. That is what I remember. When his back was up against the wall,

it wasn't that he was, you know, guys couldn't win rounds from him. They had, Vittori had. But it was, can you really put it on him over the course of time? And he simply did not allow that. It was, that was a truly, I don't mean this in the sense of fire or police, but in terms of the realm of athletics, that was a heroic performance.

Truly a heroic performance. I really, if you haven't seen this fight or looked it up in a while, just look up the post-fight picture that Luke just talked about. Look at his face. He's deformed, Luke. I mean, he went through hell. There's no question about it. And to mention him getting rocked in round four, I thought he was on his way out in those moments. You know, you were like, man, he really showed a backbone for a pretty

fighter, right? He really went in there against Gastelum, but he's going to get stopped now. This is too much for him to take, right? No, he had that extra gear into what you said about round five, man. It was almost a sadistic love for what he was doing. And, you know, crazy enough to say it, you need that. You need that to be able to fend off these sharks at this level. Again, Luke, I'll never be afraid to echo what you just said. Like just a heroic, ridiculous performance that night from him. Now he gets a little bit of a break from that one.

Usually these fights are taking place, BC, every three months, every two months. You know, a crazy clip. But now he gets about six months off, which I think he really needed after that contest. But this time it's back to the oceanic region. We are now on the 6th of October, 2019, back in Melbourne, Australia. And now they're trying to unify the light.

Excuse me. Unify the unified. Or I should say unify the interim. And then the regular titles. But Robert Whitaker was an interesting place. He was the reigning champion at that point BC. But he was also an interesting place just before it. Because he had the two wins over Romero.

But they were from 2017 and 2018. He hadn't fought at all in 2019. He had lost tons of time, and there were two questions basically heading into this fight. Was he shopworn by Romero? What was the time off going to do? But I have to tell you, BC, even with all those questions, I had so many people telling me Whitaker was going to sleep this guy, that this was going to be finally.

All the hype. Okay, yeah, the Gastelum fight was nice, but now you're facing the top level operator in the weight class. This movement by Adesanya is going to come crashing down. And as we said at the Brunson fight, every time they keep escalating

this guy's challenges, he keeps finding ways to do it better and better making this frankly one of his easiest fights in his UFC history yes which is wild and again I don't know if we're fully gonna know looking back how compromised Robert Whitaker was or if this is just how great Adesanya was maybe unless they fight each other again or unless Robert Whitaker continues this run he's on of of of, of wins since that fight. But, uh, it wasn't wrong to consider Whitaker the boss at the end of the video game to say like Adesanya, you had a hell of a run. You run the interim title.

You're showing us so many almost all time, great qualities, right? Yet you're not the real champion yet. And it just so happens that the real champion is an absolute complete fighter and a killer in Whitaker. Luke, I remember Whitaker was the betting favorite. That's correct, right? Because I remember he deserved to be. I would double check that while you ask. I remember feeling at least that he deserved to be. He was a more well-rounded fighter. He was tough as nails from those Romero fights. But yes, the questions about him were certainly there, although we didn't know at this point, Luke, that we knew after that he had sort of lost the love for the game during the stretch. It was a

lot more mental than even it was physical. And some of the, some of his breakdowns from, you know, running ragged in terms of training. Yes. Whitaker was the favorite. Yes. And, you know, look, there were also kind of questions about Adesanya. Luke, for everything great I just said about that performance against Gastelum, there are a lot of people today who don't love Gastelum, who say, you know, you kind of let that guy drag you into life or death, and you just barely beat him.

Does that say something about who he is? Shouldn't he have been able to slice through, you know, Gastelum easier, considering the praise he's getting? So I think there were equal questions coming in, and to see him do it as clean as he did. I still almost don't believe this fight happened because he made it look easy.

Luke and BC. I mean, it was just Luke. He sliced right frigging through him. Yeah. It was tense for a while, but the timing and the setup on those punches and the power being that real huge eye opener for as much as he was already escalating and raising the levels of his, of his ceiling and future Luke, you're talking about a guy who was now seven and O in the UFC and the span of a year and a half going from most people had never heard him to kind of one punch knocking out one of the three or four best fighters in the world to claim that division's championship. I still will go to my grave saying all you media members out there who voted for Jorge Masvidal for your fighter of the year in 2019.

Can you send a fruit basket to New Zealand? Can we do something for Adesanya here? Because you screwed that guy out of what he deserved. Beating Anderson Silva, going life or death with Gastelum for the interim title, and then knocking out Robert Whitaker in the same calendar year. Seriously, show me a better year in UFC history than that. It's like Jon Jones and somebody else, right? That's it. I mean, this is insane.

I mean, understand one of the narratives that came out of the fight with Gastelum at UFC 236. It was that, okay, to your point, BC, all right, all right, my man can go long. He's obviously got some skills. Okay, fair enough, blah, blah, blah. But that he was hittable. He was hittable in this fight. And to be fair, this was a fight in the fight with Gastelum where he did get tagged a bit. We're referencing how deformed his face was now it turns out in the tenure of his UFC fights that is the outlier but that was the most recent one at the time and you're like aha okay so as he you know moves up the chain he does have some nice skills but eventually someone's going to put it on him and Robert has this blitzing style with sophisticated timing and you know he's fresh and you know they're going to be in Australia and

and by the way we're sleeping on the fact that this fight did take place in australia you know when adesanya is sort of the hometown guy although he's from new zealand i get you know but the oceanic region shares a little bit of brotherhood from what i can tell he would get cheered he got cheered in his wilkinson debut for example but he was the enemy here he was the one and by the way we're not even talking about it this is the one where he came out and danced in front of a crowd at marvel stadium in front of what 70 000 people or something he had a crew of dance or dance guys with him they did a short routine then he walks out there and does this like incredible performance dude you know he wasn't that i when i was thinking about that i was like dude that is one of the most incredible performances.

Before the cage, the cage, the whole nine yards. This guy is unapologetic about who he is. Totally unapologetic. I have a style that I fight in. And sometimes you might get an Anderson Silva or a Yoel Romero, but sometimes you're going to get this, and I make no apologies for it. I have the things that I like, anime and blah, blah, blah. And then dancing and then to be at ease BC to then go and execute it.

That was that moment. You were like, dude, okay. Now he is he the champion now? Is he the face of the UFC? Is this the new hotness in MMA? I love that you said that because it was so surprising that he did it with that level of ease. Nobody, nobody does that to Robert Whitaker. Like it's insane that you had to recalibrate. I think this was the fight he started to get the idea that he could be your pound for pound king and there'd be no argument. Despite Habib and Jon Jones still being there because he just made such a freaking leap.

But yeah, to the global superstardom thing again, something he still hasn't fully walked into. This was a major moment forward. And I like Luke that he's always able to live on that line between from a marketable standpoint, hero and villain, just by being himself, not caring if you like me for this part of my game or my personality, but this part of it creeps you out or annoys you. It's like when I send you those videos of him with his dogs on Instagram and he's touching their Johnson and you're like, bro, he's a different cat. All right, what do you want me to do? What do you want me to say about him?

He's a different dude, all right? Luke, he don't care. And maybe that's the key for your long-term happiness, Luke Thomas. Just be free in front of the camera. Don't care anymore. I see that. Certainly it's something I aim to emulate. But don't you agree with me?

When he won that fight after the walkout, being the villain, dancing in front of everyone's face, and then just, by the way, remember, he dropped Whitaker in the first round and then just finished him off in the second, the fight ending at three minutes and 33 seconds of the second frame. Did you not have a sense of like, okay, dude, this guy might be the face of the UFC. Now, Conor's still around, but I'm saying like the next truly big thing in MMA from a global superstar perspective.

A hundred percent. And this is where, you know, he went back to the oceanic region and they made a giant pay-per-view out of it. And he, I mean, look, to have the balls to do that kind of dance before it, Luke, and then back it up the way he did. I mean, it was like perfection where you're not only saying this guy could grab a mantle and be the face of the company. I think, again, maybe that window started to crack open where you're saying it's only

seven fights in and we're a year and a half into his career. But is he already putting the foundation together of a truly all-time great special career? And that's still an argument we're having right now. Two fights after this, Luke, where you're sort of like, man, what he has done in this such a short period of time is insane. What if he doubles down on that? This again was another major step up in that where I don't know where the ceiling is and how good he could be. Even going through hell against Gastelum, Luke, we still thought with the hit ability, right, there's still a ceiling. We've seen it, but that ceiling's high.

It's incredible, but we've seen it. This reminded us that we don't know how good this guy is, which is what made the fight that followed Luke all that. I would like to forget it. I think most people would as well, including the guys who fought in it, which brings us to our next fight. Now we're in 2020. This was just before the pandemic started bc march 7th we're almost a a year removed from it ufc 248 um this is an

interesting fight bc because yoel romero did not deserve the title shot but he kind of had this view of him where it's like you know you can make a claim that he won the second of the two whittaker fights i have watched the fight with paulo costa a can make a claim that he won the second of the two Whitaker fights. I have watched the fight with Paulo Costa a number of times. I thought he won. This was supposed to be, you know, Costa originally. They couldn't do it. And, hell, a guy like Adesanya, you have to love. He goes and beats Whitaker and says, I'll take on a guy who doesn't deserve the title.

If everyone thinks that guy's the man, I'll fight that guy. I'll fight the man. No problem. And we were like, yes, okay. We recognize that Yoel romero doesn't deserve this opportunity but we're not going to say it's a bad fight we're not going to say we don't love it we're not going to say it's not a thing we don't want to see we can't wait to see it this guy the cuban muscle crisis taking on this new amazing champion and bc boy did that one fail

to live up to any of the expectations. I think this is in my top three of fights I was most excited about in the history of the UFC. I failed on this one, Luke, to really look at the idea that we're talking about two counterpunchers, right? And counterstrikers don't always make it work if neither one will take the lead. But talk about the magic.

There was so much magic coming off of the back-to-back Gastelum-Whitaker fights, Luke, that when Adesanya came out there and said, you know, Kosta's hurt. There's no kind of number one contender that, like, is jumping out and deserving it. I'll grab the guy that nobody wants to fight. Dude, to me, that was like, I mean,

that's Dare to Be Great stuff. That's catnip to people like us, Luke. I was like, not only is this guy everything, he's dare to be great stuff. That's catnip to people like us, Luke. I was like, not only is this guy everything he's trying to be everything. I mean, and then to come out and do it this way. So look, this fight was a, was a sleeper in the first round. Romero surprised Adesanya with that kick to the face. I think it, it kind of, I don't think it shook him up in the standpoint of making him on queer street or wobbly, Luke, almost in the same way, I think, if we examine that Anderson Silva one, were there moments where Silva landed strikes

that Adesanya thought he couldn't, where he started to say, you know what? I can do this differently and safer on the outside. I think from the moment Romero landed that kick in round one, it got Adesanya thinking, there's probably a safer way to do this. And then I think here's what's unfortunate, Luke. The unfortunate part is Romero can't argue the fact that he thought he won,

that I thought he won, and that even though it goes down in the books as a shitty performance because it's the equivalent of a basketball team holding the ball in college basketball in the four corners and then trying to get a last-second layup to run out the shot clock every time. It's totally a backdoor style to win the fight. Yet in that backdoor style, I thought Romero pulled it off three rounds to two. He just doesn't get the chance to argue about it because he refused to come forward. And then when Adesanya refused to answer that refusal,

you had a shitty five-round fight that I think was a major step backward in that moment. Now, look, he redeemed that like he's redeemed all of his step backs in monster ways, Luke. But in that moment, this was a wake-up call that maybe your hero Adesanya, you know, maybe he can't do all things. No, he didn't lose, but he basically said, judges, it's up to you. What did you see? And champions should not ever do that, Luke. They should never say, you know what, instead of making sure I'm just going to give this to the judges and see what they thought. He did that with this performance, Luke. He did not do enough to demonstratively say that he should have won this fight. In some ways, no one should have won it.

You know, as much as I just gave Romero credit for backdooring him, it still was a shitty fight at the end of the day. I'm still disappointed that Adesanya didn't show us who he was in that fight. Well, the thing is, I didn't mind that he did that part because my view is if you're going to do that, you know it's eventually going to bite you. So if you want to roll that dice, fine. But if you get a bad decision, don't complain about it,

especially when it's really tight and it's really close. And yeah, we can argue Romero won this run or Adesanya won that one, but there was never really a round where you were like, okay, that guy put it on the other guy. It never happened in either direction. So if those guys want to roll the dice and you want to go to the judges with that,

do not complain with what result you get in the end. That's usually my view on this, but I, I agree. I think this was one of those moments where again, what he had shown in the gasoline fight and then the Whitaker fight, this was not, this was very much a backtrack in the worst kind of way. But I also do feel like he was the champion. He didn't have to take on that risk. He did it anyway. And you had enough.

There were still some haters out there. There always will be, I suppose, BC. But I did think at that point, though, he had built up a lot of goodwill with fans as a known commodity of action or skill or some combination of the two. But it was also that reminder, again, you got with the Silva fight. Dude, this guy is going to assess what the risks are. And he's going to find a way to win no matter what, but you may not like the ways in which he defines the narrow parameters

of what he's going to allow himself to do. Those don't happen every fight. They happen every third or fourth fight with him. But it is consistent enough where you have to recognize it's always a possibility. By the way, I don't think it's going to be a situation here with Vlhovic, but I guess we'll have to see you can never rule it out but you also can't rule out the fact that you know romero just did not give you a very convincing argument to take the belt off of

yeah not neither had an argument really neither had an argument and it's sad and also let's not forget this followed yoana against Zhang Weili, which was one of the best three or four fights in UFC history. Yeah, so this was a double bummer. But Luke, we've talked about how many times old Adesanya has redemptified himself, if I even made that word up in the moment. UFC 253 in September of last year was a hell of a redemption story for Mr. It certainly was.

So let's talk about it. The UFC did everything they could rightly in my view to promote this. This was a guy in Paulo Costa who had just like himself burned through the middleweight division. I mean, let's talk about where he was BC before coming into this. He had beaten Gareth McClellan, Oluwole Bboshe, Johnny Hendricks, Uriah Hall, and then had the decision, the one decision was against Joel Romero

in one of the craziest, most action-packed fights you've ever seen. And you were like, this guy is a force to be reckoned with. He either stops him or he puts him in the most uncomfortable situations imaginable. And Adesanya was coming off the very so-so, very underwhelming,

at least from an entertainment standpoint. Again, I did a whole video. I thought Romero was more to blame, but certainly no one had a good time watching that fight. And he was looking for, not to answer the critics, but to really make sure everyone knew the Whitaker fight, BC, that was not an accident. When it comes down to a game of skill, daddy is home.

And he showed it emphatically in this case. Here's what's weird is we didn't know a couple of things. We didn't know that Costa was going to pull his own Romero, and we didn't know that Costa was going to go through training camp in Napa Valley with Paul Giamatti of Sideways and old Bartles and James, Luke. And, yeah, hit the bag while crunching grapes, Luke. It was a very, in what could have been an epic war, let's not forget, this fight kind of sucked too. It was just a lot

shorter and Adesanya was more demonstrative, there's that word again, in going after the win and when it was time to put it on him dude not only did he put it on and embarrass and stop Costa he rode him Luke he rode him from the rear it's a really just double down and rub it in uh well again wasn't the fight we wanted or deserved let's say as fans and Costa may have frozen the moment or maybe you know there's some other things going on related to that wine who knows but you got to give Adesanya credit for repairing whatever was lost in the Romero fight before. Because this did not take away from the idea that he could be your pound-for-pound king. And he could be, again, the face of this sport moving forward.

9-0, three years. What a freaking three years, Luke. Good God. So just to put it in perspective, the story here was not that the Adesanya-Costa fight, to your point, was like crazy, amazing, back and forth. Oh, my goodness. How much fun are we having?

It was just one-sided. To the point, the significant strikes, total strikes, total, that Paul Acosta landed in this fight, 12. He landed 12. He never got anything going ever. Adesanya dictated the entire thing, where they fought, how they fought, what was going to land and what wasn't going to land, and put his lights out in the second round.

I think the time was 359, like it was nothing. Landing on him in the first a couple of times, there was that head kick that buzzed him a little bit. This was a moment where it was like, dude, one of these guys is winning because he's athletic and he just kind of, you know, was a bruising marauder. And one of these guys is a surgeon. And there's no comparison in terms of skills between them to the point, BC, where we're still to this day having conversations about the excuses.

Literally, in this week the news cycle paulo costa is still coming up with the reasons why he underperformed uh maybe it's just because adesanya is that good yeah well you want some wine with that cheese uh yeah actually he did have some with it okay yes yes he did all right to wrap things up here bc what would you say is the story of israel adesanya heading into Saturday's fight? Last words on this. That, that, you know, there's certainly a next level greatness to him, an understanding of striking and a poise in artistry to what he does,

which is seemingly unique, even though he got the early comparisons to two of the greatest of all time. It's also a guy, Luke, who's not perfect. He can be human, but luckily none of his, you know, very human performances have set him back too badly. He's been able to learn from being on his back from Vittori through all the way to stinking it out against Romero, how to adjust and adapt to that,

that I really believe we are seeing one of the greatest of all time. There's, you know, there's no guarantee he beats Blahowitz. There's no guarantee he wouldn't lose to Robert Whitaker in a rematch, for all we know. There's also no guarantee Lukey doesn't go out there and slice through Blahowitz, become a two-division simultaneous champion, and then one day fight Jon Jones for the heavyweight championship in what really on paper would have to be the biggest fight in the company's history.

It's a special person underneath that because he's adaptable and he's just hard to break, Luke. I don't think we've seen it. I don't think we've seen in any form as it comes to fighting. Okay, Romero held the ball and kind of froze him, but he didn't break him. We've never seen this guy crack yet. And what that means is you don't know how good he is. I don't know if he can pull this heavyweight shit off, Luke. I don't even know if he can beat Blahowitz. But I've stopped being in a position to doubt that based on these nine fights that we went through, because we've seen so many highs and enough lows, like I said, to see how he responds to adversity. This is very, very special athlete here. Yeah. I mean, the thing I want to go back to is how we kind of opened a little bit when we said that you go listen to the first couple of fights. He has

several of the fights actually. And you hear him being compared to the next John Jones, the next Anderson Silva, and really for most things good, but some things, you know, like you said, he's not perfect. He is very much his his own man he's his own man in terms of his story being unique he's his own man in terms of the style that he brings to the octagon he's his own man in terms of the generation that he represents inside the octagon like he's sort of a unique singular feature about his his larger generation he's very much just unusual, both in his level of talent and the way he presents himself to the world and how he fights and everything else.

He isn't the next Jon Jones, and he isn't the next Anderson Silva. He's the one and only Israel Adesanya. And you may like parts of that, you may not. Some things you may appreciate about him. Some things you may wish were different. But in general, that package he has shown as who he is, is, to your point, seemingly next-generational talent. We will know for sure on Saturday, BC, if he goes in there on Saturday,

he wins and gets another belt, he would be just more than a guy who had an impressive 20-fight or whatever it is at this point run. Now you're talking about somebody in the all-time how many you know if you get to count the best fighters in ufc on your hand you have to start putting him into that conversation uh certainly you couldn't exclude him all the way from it that's the kind of history he is upon here and everything he's done to this point has been pretty historical already uh okay, Brian, I wish you nothing but the best of luck and good times in the wonderful island of Puerto Rico. We both represent CBS Sports. We have plenty more coverage coming your way this week. We hope you enjoyed the resume review of Israel Adesanya. So for

Brian Campbell on Puerto Rico, I'm Luke Thomas. Thanks to everyone who watched. Until next time, enjoy the fights.