MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Resume Review: Stipe Miocic's Path to Francis Ngannou 2

Episode Date: March 23, 2021

Luke Thomas and Brian Campbell are back with another resume review. Stipe Miocic will be the focus this week as the guys revisit all of his UFC fights leading up to the Francis Ngannou rematch at UFC 260. --------------------------- 'Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit: store.sho.com   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat  To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

TD Direct Investing offers live support, so whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, you can make your investing steps count. And if you're like me and think a TFSA stands for Total Fund Savings Adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. on March 27th 2021 at UFC 260 UFC heavyweight champion Stipe Miocic faces for the second time Francis Ngannou he'll be defending of course his title there and we thought here at Morning Combat you know what Stipe Miocic has had an interesting run he's had a nice long run and he's had a real pivotal moment here could this be the moment where the apple car gets turned over or is the goat in the UFC's heavyweight division going to maintain order? Hello everyone. My name is Luke Thomas. This is your Stipe Miocic resume review, but I am just one half of your hosting duo today. The gentleman who is joining me as always and I am is my friend, king of Connecticut himself now Puerto Rico I suppose

Brian Campbell hello BC yeah thank you so much for the introduction Luke a lot of people wondering if I've been working out here or if this is a shmedium shirt it would be the latter but I am fired up just the same to talk to a guy who I'm going to be very honest I've picked against have underrated historically so many times but yet to go back to the beginning of his UFC run something like 10 years ago and see how he became the champion and the great fighter he is today. It was a wild ride.

And I'm very much looking forward to share that with the people. As long as, Luke, we put it out there, we are not behind the resume review curse. So there appears to be a curse of brewing. We've done two of these. This is now the third the first two we did we did one for Conor BC before the rematch with Poirier he got dusted

then we did one for Israel Adesanya now he didn't get knocked out but he did lose his fight within Jan Blachowicz here we have a case of Stipe Miocic facing Francis for a second time now I'll say this whether we did a resume review or not Stipe has his hands full on Saturday night. But if he loses BC, you know, two strikes, okay, you're still in the ballgame. Three are out. At that point, it's a confirmed curse. Yeah, then we've got to check your office for crystal balls,

maybe give it to you by Tony Ferguson. But, hey, look, let's get into it. What a career. What a decade for the great Stipe Miocic. And it kind of makes you ask yourself what when you first knew the guy when when when he first imprinted it in your brain yeah so you mentioned it's about a decade he's been in the UFC his debut October 8th 2011 we'll talk about that in just a second so this coming October will be 10 years in the UFC for Stipe Miocic which is

hilarious we see in many ways because I think part of the reason because I have consistently underestimated him too I think part of the reason for that is BC we now know and we knew for some time that obviously you could be a little bit older at heavyweight but he made his debut at 29 that's not especially young and while he did appear to be good right away he was just competing in an era with Cain Velasquez and Brock Lesnar and Overeem and JDS at first it just never really occurred to me BC that he would ever be that good when do you think you begin to have a eureka moment about him I think it was really like two years into his run when he had that last minute

pay-per-view co-main opportunity against Roy Nelson which by the way was the fight after he suffered his first UFC defeat we'll talk about it the sort of surprising Stefan Struve KO I know I did not watch that fight card live even though Stipe was in that main event it was let's say two years in when he fought Roy Nelson that it stopped being just a name on a Wikipedia page and it was a guy I could match name with face. And really for the first time, start to say, do we have a future contender on our, on our hands here? And let's be honest about a couple of things. You know, Stipe is certainly more lunch, pale blue collar than flashy. He leans on things like intangibles a lot more than specific one

skill or there. And that certainly can lead to him being underrated. Maybe his personality, his very relaxed demeanor, his firefighter side job makes him not really seem like a matinee idol. But when you go back and see this, man, starting with his UFC debut, I was surprised at how much he was a complete product from the beginning. Obviously,

he grew and added certain things and improved elements to his game, but everything from his physical frame to sort of the foundational aspects of what he does as a boxer, as a competent wrestler, you realize he kind of had it early. And maybe a lot of that was stuff we overlooked, the college wrestling background, the college baseball background, the fact that he was sort of a sneaky plus athlete coming into a division where obviously you have a lot of heavy hitters, but a lot of slow plotters. It kind of makes sense looking back how he would sneak in under the radar. And even as he was getting better and becoming really a legitimate contender, we were sort of quick to say, isn't he just another name?

It's very interesting looking back. Yeah, it certainly is. And, you know, going back through McGregor's resume in preparation for that and then Adesanya's, those were kind of fun. But Adesanya's run has been only about three years, so there's not a whole lot of, like, looking back at MMA at that time with it. And then with McGregor, there is a little bit of that, but there's just not a whole lot of fight film.

It actually, you can go through it pretty quickly. Man, this was a real walk down memory lane of where the heavyweight division was, of where MMA was, of what guys were doing and what they weren't, of who was watching and who wasn't. Seeing Steven Seagal cage side for the Dos Santos, the Dos, excuse me, the JDS first fight and a whole lot more it was actually

kind of fun so we start BC as you mentioned October 8th 2011 this was UFC 136 the Edgar versus Maynard three card Steve Imeochich made his debut over Joey Belcher and we both went back and watched this this was actually a great first fight for him BC this is when I went back and I watched I was like wow he was actually to your point a lot better early than I remember him being for some reason not that I ever thought he was bad but he did look like he had a lot of bases covered but you could tell raw unpolished need a bit of a cardio dump in this one got it done though because he was just well-rounded and he did almost whatever he wanted to to Beltran well to put your well-rounded point the boxing was very technical

I mean even for the ufc heavyweight division that jumped out the ease in which he took takedowns from beltran jumped out as well but i think this was the perfect first opponent because beltran is durable can take a lot of damage but more specifically luke he's dangerous within that durability he can he they mentioned on the broadcast he loves to be in a brawl He sort of does his best work after getting hurt. So it was the perfect early test for Stipe, who came in, Luke, at what, 6-0 outside of the UFC, but had never yet gone the three-round full distance. This was that first test for him.

And there was also the test within the test in round two, when Beltran, who was kind of getting beat up, was bloody already, had that sort of surprise explosion in which he took Stipe down, landed some legitimately hard ground and pound. But after Stipe weathered the storm and stood up, Rogan screams, my ouch, it looks unfazed. And Luke, that was sort of an early, I don't know, wake-up call that part of what made Stipe become what he is now was certainly his ability to take punishment and survive and

adapt but you're seeing early I mean he does not get shaken by getting hit flush he does not get taken off of his game plan he's very able to adjust to the danger coming his way and you were looking back on this it was really nice to see some of those early foundational aspects jumping through the screen yeah and a little bit of adversity he wins this one via unanimous decision uh 30 27 on one of the judges scorecards 29 28 i believe on two of them great first fight and he followed up pretty quickly then going to february 15th 2012 by facing the england's philip defries this is with ufc on fuel tv see what i mean bc by a trip down memory lane on the Sanchez versus Ellenberger card which if memory serves was in Lincoln Nebraska Omaha Nebraska I was pretty

close and he wins this one 43 seconds into the first round a good taste early I would say BC of his power for Miochic he didn't get a chance to really showcase that against a guy as durable at that time as Joey Beltran, but really good power. And if you make mistakes against them, they'll be very, very, very costly. That's the key point right there. You know, Beltran was too durable to fall victim to the KO, but DeFries was 8-0 coming in. He had just won his UFC debut. I know it's a name we forget now. He's from Great Britain, but Luke, he came out way too reckless. He tried to make it a slugfest early on, and it didn't take long before he paid with a perfect counter right cross that essentially ended the fight. And I think we realized right there that Steve Bacon box, he can move. Those are maybe his, you know, calling cards, but he'll get you the hell out of there if you make him so this was certainly an early eye opener in that regard now we asked bc what was the first time this guy came across your radar this wasn't

the first time that i thought wow okay i need to rethink my understanding of this guy which by the way i have several of those moments with steep amyotis which tells you how wrong i've been about the guy forever but this was the first time I remember being like okay um this guy's probably good he's worth you know keeping an eye on there's this third fight we go to May 16th excuse me May 26 2012 UFC 146 Dos Santos versus Mir why is this one? Well, the reason why it's important, BC, is because he fought and defeated Shane Del Rosario. Rest in peace to Shane Del Rosario. He later would tragically pass away.

But the reason at the time this was very important was he was a very hyped prospect. He was undefeated. He was a guy that was kicking everybody's ass in Strikeforce. And this was his UFC debut. I only ended up realizing who Stipe Miocic was BC by virtue of my attention and the media's attention more to that point on Shane Del Rosario and to that point BC this was a great fight too because Miocic got pushed

in this one he got lit up with body kicks and a lot of other things that a great striker like del rosario was able to do but the reason why in the end miocic has the belt now is for the reason he was able to win this fight he's got so many different levels he can go to rosario just excuse me del rosario could just not keep up over time great point so here's the deal this fight was the first and what will be many for cp's career where he's facing an opponent lu, who is really at the peak of their powers in their prime career, meaning this was their highest critical moment, where they were coming off their best wins, where they were considered the most dangerous. And the constant theme is the loss to Stipe that ends up happening was typically the derailment. Del Rosario, to your

point, would never win another fight. He got knocked out by Pat Berry in his next one, and then, of course, tragically passed at just age 30. But this was the beginning where somebody comes in looking very dangerous, where I don't know the betting odds at this point, but you can probably favor him against Miocic, knowing Stipe's lack of big-time experience. Yet, man, was he way too tough. First of all, shout out to Del Rosario for wearing the Metal Militia shirt. That shows you how long ago this was, Luke. But also, here's a Filipino-American who could box. He had a fantastic kickboxing game, and he pieced Stipe up in round one, kicking him to the body at will, landing creative lean-in hooks and combinations.

We really got to see,, not only steep base chin, but that stubbornness that we talk about where it's really hard to get me out off of his game to get him so frustrated where he doesn't know what to do next. He stayed the course in this one. I really liked how he was able to eat shots, but still come back with leg kicks. And I think ultimately Luke Del Rosario used a lot of his fuel tank to try to, you know, have his big moments. And when Stipe wasn't going anywhere, it actually didn't take long in round two before he was able to turn the tables. And Luke, I had no idea in hindsight that UFC 146 was an all heavyweight pay-per-view main card. JDS taking on Frank Mir the last minute in the main event. We had Kane and Bigfoot one in the co-main. So a little bit of interesting history right there. But once Stipe

got this to the ground in round two, vicious ground and pound, elbows that bloodied up Del Rosario. And I think, Luke, we'd seen Stipe take guys to the ground, but not be that dangerous from top position. This showed a lot more to Stipe's game also showed Luke he may need a translator in the post fight interview did you understand any of that I didn't I had an issue with that as well yeah it's been a consistent problem of his uh you know you got to cut the guy some slack he just had a a fist fight so he's not going to be uh William Buckley Jr. but yeah it wasn't exactly his strong suit by the way I also want to point out here this fight as you indicated was on the main card of a pay-per-view.

His two previous fights against Phil DeFries, UFC Fuel TV. Granted, it was Fuel TV, but that was also the main card. His debut, UFC 136 BC. Ready for this? Again, Time Warp City. The fight against Beltran took place on the preliminary card, which aired at the time on Facebook. So he made his debut in the UFC on

Facebook which now takes us BC to the fight as we move up the list which is Stefan Struve this is his first loss in the UFC for Miochic and his first career loss he loses at 350 of the second round this took place in Nottingham England and it was the first time BC where he was the main event. The event was called UFC on fuel TV, Struve versus Miocic. So I'll just pitch it to you, BC. What went wrong here? This is still shocking that this ever happened, Luke. And I just want to remind people for Struve who had a very up and down career. Again, this was his mountaintop moment. He came in having won five of six. He had finished Pat Berry, LeVar Johnson, and Dave Herman in succession. And interestingly enough, Luke, it was just steady jabs from Struve that really started to turn the tables, where I think in round two when the finish happened, you saw maybe the only time in his career, a frustrated Stipe. It mixed with maybe some fatigue and certainly constant jabs that started to sting him that Luke, it wasn't one punch in the end that turned the tide or ruined him. It was Struve who

looked awful in the beginning from the standpoint of striking, because that's what he does. He's a very, he fights very smaller than he is. We know he's got a ground game, Luke shocking that this ever happened, but more shocking to watch it happen because it was jab, jab, left hook, jab, jab. And suddenly Stipe's, you know, floundering around. And then when Struve sat down on a big shot, the fight was over. I mean, Luke, you could probably still to this day with very educated UFC fans win a trivia contest saying, Stefan Struve has knocked out which former UFC heavyweight champion? And people forget that this ever happened,

but this was a major early turning point moment for Stipe. How much of it do you feel like was, yes, Struve was doing better in the second round than, I think, supporters of Miocic might want to either remember or acknowledge. That uppercut, I thought, in particular particular for Struve was landing really well,

heard him kind of in the first round to, to an extent, but in the end there, he was getting pieced up as he was getting pushed backwards. That part is true, but he did slip on one of those ads on the mat. And then Struve just found perfect timing behind that to throw a punch and that kind of off balanced him.

And then the fury of the, excuse me, the flurry that ended it happened there. Like, i'm not going to say it's all the way accidental but it's hard to argue that the win by struve is just skill i do believe there was a bit of luck involved there a little bit point to your point yes and let's also add in that struve had a very well-timed low blow that i think did hurt Stipe and sort of set him up for the finish that would come and Stipe was just like no I'm good let's fight through it and I think that hurt him and let's not forget that Stipe had uh it looked like he had Struve hurt and almost out not too

long before the finish happened but Luke even though you're right about the slippage that led to the finishing punch didn't you just see a guy start to crumble a little bit? Something we hadn't seen from Stipe and maybe hadn't seen again with the exception of that quick flash knockout loss to Cormier where he just started to really fade. Okay, maybe fades against JDS, we'll get into that. But man, it just didn't look good heading up to that slippage look. No, it didn't. And this was a serious reset moment.

But it deserves to be noted, BC, that this was a guy who I think caught their attention right away for his upside. Credit to the UFC matchmakers, because if you're in a main event, if you're on the... So, sorry, if you're... This was a different era. So debuting on a pay-per-view card, even if it's a preliminary card, not necessarily the most special thing. But what I would say is if you your first three of your four cards, you're on the main card, one of them you're headlining, that's a pretty big deal. They clearly had a sense that he might be somebody who needs to be watched,

but it didn't go his way then. However, BC, this is when things really began to level up for him this was the first moment you could tell okay the strew fight wasn't a leveling up moment but this one might be we moved to june 15th of 2013 this will be his only fight in that year we're in winnipeg manitoba canada bc could you find that on a map i don't know u know UFC 161 it that the card is headlined by Rashad Evans and Dan Henderson we love Rashad not his most exciting fight and on it Steve Bamiocic returns and fights Roy Nelson and well how would you describe this win by him BC something like beating the brakes off of Roy. This was a absolute drumming. Yeah, there's a lot to say

about this. First of all, let's give Steve credit. He mentioned in the video package before the fight that he had to go back to the drawing board after that loss. That loss to Struve is disastrous. Let's not fool around, right? And I love what he did. He took nine months off. He came back, Luke, you saw a much more muscularly defined fighter his traps were giant you you also saw a guy who let's let's be honest you're going three hard rounds his gas tank improved this was supposed to be a Hennem Burau Eddie Wineland Bantamweight title main event that got canceled at the last minute Rashad gets bumped up and then they call Roy Nelson in off six weeks notice Luke he had just knocked off Jeff knocked out Czech Congo. So there's a lot of elements to this.

I don't think Roy had a legit training camp, Luke. I know he's always bloated, but let's remind you of one thing. This was Roy's mountaintop moment. Like everyone else, seemingly when, when, uh, when, when Stipe fought him, he had been six and three coming into this fight in the UFC Luke, but three straight knockout finishes of Herman, Mitrione and Czech Congo, as I mentioned. And after this loss, including the UFC, Luke, but three straight knockout finishes of Herman, Mitrione, and Cech Congo, as I mentioned. And after this loss, including this loss, Luke, he would go on to four and 12 to end his career. So this was maybe the last of what was left inside of Roy Nelson. And I got to say this, Luke, first round, I forgot what speedy, somewhat explosive

Roy Nelson looked like. He looked scary as hell for about two minutes Luke before I think you realized he had not put in the proper uh training camp and he became a bloody beat-up punching bag for the for the remainder of this fight not only did Stipe show you really everything he had from the striking department but Luke he was using feints to enter in to set up his uppercuts and his left hooks for the first time. So you're seeing what nine months off did for Stipe. A lot of wrinkles coming in. I loved also his elbows from the clinch. He wasn't able to take Roy down a lot, but when he got him in the standing clinch, you see for the first time,

Stipe really brutalizing somebody with some new weapons. I think in the end, Luke, Roy just, he shouldn't have been allowed to go 15 minutes. I mean, this was gross. I have no idea how he was able to take that punishment. By the way, that was the co-main event on the card. So a bit of a reset moment, as you indicated, taking the nine months off coming back in 2013. But again, it wasn't like he fell way back

to the back of the pack in terms of how the UFC viewed what he was bringing to the table. He still had pretty significant placement. By the way, I should also note, these Canadian fans, they had Evans versus Henderson on the card, Jimmo versus Prokajic, Igor Prokajic, which was a terrible fight, and then Jake Shields versus Tyron Woodley, all on the same card. Wow, and they still did a $3 million gate for that.

That's pretty impressive. So to your point, this was the reset moment. Wow. And they still did a $3 million gate for that. That's pretty impressive. So to your point, this was the reset moment. This was stage two building. This was getting to a point where you could say, I can move on from that loss, forget about it, and still drive down the field and get a touchdown. So it takes us to our next fight, a bit of a similar kind of situation.

Now you're facing somebody who was certainly on the decline, I think, of their career, but a very formidable test at the time still Stipe Miocic fought Gabriel Gonzaga this was in January of 2014 on UFC on Fox the Henderson versus Thompson card I believe this was the co-main event as well Gonzaga as I mentioned I don't think this was the very best version of himself at that point I think a long pass okay okay so I'll just say that's my opinion but I still think he was a very very tough test one which to your point I'm sure you're about to make Stipe was able to do a lot of good work here as well I'll say this about Gonzaga it wasn't prime Gonzaga right it wasn't head kick to uh Crow Cop but this had been sort of his reinvention within the UFC where he figured some things out.

Gonzaga had won five of six coming in, including recent finishes over Ben Rothwell and Sean Jordan. Every single one of his victories up to this point had been by stoppage, Luke. And again, how we talk about the mountaintop moment and then sliding off this loss would begin a string of five losses in six fights to end Gonzaga's career, including a loss to Fedor's brother, which doesn't always look good, Luke. But with that said, you forget how frigging smart and crafty Gabriel Gonzaga is. I think the biggest, let's say, takeaway from this

fight, Luke, and let's remind ourselves, Gonzaga had the most finishes in heavyweight history in the UFC coming into this, was Gonzaga's defense was on point. And this was the first time Stipe had to really deal with somebody that he couldn't regularly strike clean or strike flush because Gonzaga was settled in as a counter puncher. Yes, the threat of the leg kick was there and he came close a couple of times to hitting the big one. But what I really liked about Gonzaga, Luke, was he found out how to land looping and creative and sort of abnormal counterpunter punches. Again, if Stipe wasn't as poised as the guy that he is now, he could have crumbled under this type of setup. Gonzaga really gave him the kind of test we hadn't seen up to this point.

But one thing that separates Stipe now that I don't think we realized through his whole journey is the foot speed, Luke. Goldie would not stop harping on it. He said, Stipe's got the foot speed of a welterweight. Luke, that's something I never really put into words and thought about, about Majotic. I know that he's a great boxer. I know he's tough as fricking nails. I know he's a competent wrestler, but how much did you see in this fight and really his early run that his foot speed as a boxer seems to be well ahead of every guy he's facing? It's he's just so he, he doesn't plot in that way at all. I mean, it's not quite out of Sonia smooth criminal type of, uh, slickness, but you're right. And I, and Goldie was right then too. It

was, it's just impossible to not notice how fleet of foot he is how he's able to get himself out of trouble on angles he never you never see him throw a punch usually unless it's a really desperate scramble but if he's throwing punches at range how many times you ever seen him off balance himself through the course of doing that everything is centered he's usually in. He's usually out of position when he wants to be. It's true. Again, it doesn't – it's weird. Like, when you watch him fight, to your point,

and you look at his background, he's pretty – he's very clearly the kind of athlete who has tremendous ability across athletic modalities. And yet, for some reason, it took us a while for us hard-headed donks to fully accept the reality of that. But against Gonzaga, to me, BC, this stage of his career, 2013 and then early 2014, so let's just call it that 2013 space, this was very much about rebuilding, recentering, leveling up. Not so much, I need to advance in the so much I need to advance in the media,

I need to advance in the career, I need a title shot. Yes, he was looking to advance in those things, but this was really about building a key portion of his game to ready himself, not for the Nelsons and Gonzagas of the world, but for what might come afterward. That's what this period of fighting means to me for him. You're right. And I talked about, I talked about the lessons he had to kind of learn because Gonzaga was very

credible defensively in the end, Luke, Gabriel didn't throw enough strikes to have a shot at winning this, but I think it was the perfect test too, because let's remember what happened late in the third round. Gonzaga ends up getting pushed down by Stipe, not a takedown, really just a shove. And Gonzaga is hoping to set that trap and welcoming him into his guard. Notice Stipe smart enough never to jump hoping to set that trap and welcoming him into his guard notice Stipe

smart enough never to jump in there into that guard and get trapped yet still figured out a way to leap in and out with big shots and once he was able to finally start landing them he got in there for some serious ground and pound and had a near finish so you're seeing Stipe knowing his limitations yet again never really putting himself into a trouble point outside again of how shocking that Stroop loss was. We never really saw him make a monster mistake again. And it should be noted, good decision-making on this guy. Good athlete.

Yes. Well-rounded. Yes. Good decision-making. He seems to, again, you never see him out in front of his skis too often for the most part. You never see him really get into situations where it's like, oh, you haded why are you taking him down usually if he has a guy rocked he finishes him off like this guy just understands where he needs to put himself to be in the best position

to win now brings us to his next fight which is very much an afterthought bc but i want to set the table here moves to may 31st 2014 this is ufc fight night miochic versus maldonado 2014 this is UFC fight night Miocic versus Maldonado but this is not originally what the UFC had booked they had wanted him to fight on May 24th of that year Junior Dos Santos but the bout was shifted uh and it took place a week later May 31st and Dos Santos had to pull out of the fight with a hand injury so they brought in Maldonado who offered quite literally almost nothing to Biotic. He gets finished in just 35 seconds. Biotic blows the doors off of him, landed eight strikes, and that was all BC. But it was just him staying busy, staying active, looking for that next step up. And let me continue harping on this point. This actually was prime Fabio Maldonado. If there was

a prime three-fight winning streak in the UFC coming in and including this fight Luke he would lose five of six to end it uh immediately after this so uh he did exactly what he had to do against a guy who was looking for a fight if you look for a fight against Stipe you typically get handled all right now this is the part in his career this was the first moment I I had to rethink how good I thought he was we now move to uh his last fight of 2014 we go to UFC on Fox now he is headlining Dos Santos versus Miocic December 13th to be specific Stipe Miocic in the main event loses to JDS via unanimous decision I want to talk about the fight but I want to to talk first, BC, about the lesson you learned here. What I had learned was that JDS probably is going to get badly affected

by the Kane Wars and this fight because Miocic may have lost, but he exacted a heavy punishing toll on JDS, and it really told me this dude is actually way, way better than some of us have thought. Heck yeah. I mean that those most recent fights we just talked about, uh, Maldonado, Gonzaga, Roy Nelson, he learned things. He put some things together, Luke, but he made a massive leap here. And this is the most important fight of Steve Bay's career. And yes, it was a loss, but Luke without question, it was the most important fight. And I know that he's talked to me about this and through the years when I've interviewed him, but also you can just tell watching it, what we learned in this five round fight, which you kind of forget until

you go back and watch it from that night in Phoenix, Luke, this is a war. This is a heavyweight championship type fight, five rounds, ebbs and flows back and forth, heavy damage, high pace. I mean, this was a great fight. What we learned is that Stipe Miocic was a legit heavyweight contender right here on this night in December 2014. But he was missing one thing, championship-level cardio. He faded somewhat. I don't want to say badly, Luke, because I thought he won the first two rounds handily. Although we would go to find out, two of the three judges ended up scoring at four to one for JDS.

I think they missed that. But from rounds three to five, you're seeing a Stipe who just can't handle this style of pace to his credit. He never fell apart. And he actually had moments in which he hurt, bloodied, bruised JDS in rounds three, four and five, where you were wondering if he was one or two punches away from a finish. He never got it. And he took the L here, but one thing he really did Luke JDS coming in off of two losses in three fights, both to Kane, both sort of brutal. They talked a lot in this broadcast. Rogan would not stop saying it, how steep a was using the cane blueprint on how to beat somebody like Junior Dos Santos, give the threat of the takedown, and when Dos Santos backs him up to the cage to avoid it,

where Dos Santos is just not that dangerous with his back there, brutalize him with punches off of the break and really put the pressure on. Seriously, Luke, outside of the stamina dumps which caused him to lose this fight, game plan- technique wise carrying out the best of his strengths this is a championship level performance from Stipe outside of that very large thing he was missing that he would go on to fix shortly after so why did he lose this bout because Miocic early was doing really well and what I actually noticed in this fight because I was in attendance for the rematch in Dallas Texas which I'm sure we'll get to a little bit later.

I ended up seeing in this fight the things that he ultimately did to win the second one. Didn't do enough of them here, but getting JDS tall against the fence, backing him up, and then making him react poorly. And then, of course, catching him on the exit. He did that a lot in this fight. Not enough to win, of course catching him on the exit he did that a lot in this fight not enough to win of course but pretty pretty good so there was you could see right away he was taking some of the lessons that he learned when we eventually get to the rematch but why did he lose this fight I think JDS was a little bit more informed at this time he had a better chin I think his power was still pretty good people were very wary of his right hand and more to the point to me BC

it's really the down the stretch he just couldn't carry whatever good things he was doing he had a decent first round he had a decent second round but he gets dropped in the third round fourth round was pretty close second round great again second round let's be honest here uh yeah it was still it was still competitive it was still competitive it was i still think you know jds stuffed nine of ten takedowns on the first two rounds. He was doing good work, too, but fine. Yes, strong opening situation for Miocic. The problem really came down the stretch.

As I mentioned, getting dropped in the third, fourth, he rebounded a little bit, but he missed a lot on his volume. And then in the fifth round, that's when JDS really took over, throwing 100 strikes, landing 45 of them. You had less than half of that almost for Stipe Miocic. He just couldn't keep pace in those bigger moments. But it was a learning experience. Well, and let's remember one thing.

So you keep saying, why did he lose this fight? And I think you made good points that, like, let's give JDS credit. This was his last really great win. Yeah, he would outbox Rothwell. He would knock out Derek Lewis. But this was his last, you know, peak form victory. I want to say he lost Stipe because of this, the lack of five round stamina. But I think what got him there that we're not mentioning is JDS focusing on the body. Dos Santos got bloody and kind of beat up in those first two rounds.

And I saw Stipe taking Dos Santos's best punch including taking that big right hand that people fear and not going anywhere so you got to give JDS the former champ credit for adjusting by going to the body runs three through five it was a steady breakdown of body shots and it really led to that key moment in round four where JDS hit him with that big left hook drop Stipe bloodied him and we thought the fight was possibly going to be over. Look, I wonder if that was a nugget in the head of Stipe Miocic, who is so much smarter than I've ever given him credit or that people tend to do, that he would ultimately use down the road in the rematch with Daniel Cormier.

It wasn't the same type of body shots, right, where Stipe went with the big left hooks to turn the tide, but it was a steady stream of hard jabs to the body from jds that really if you if you want to be real that was why he won the fight luke and i do want to mention one on the exit here how good were these fights back then remember these quarterly cards where they would load up uh this was your main event right this fight card also on the main card had RDA versus Nick Diaz, Overeem versus Struve, Mitrione Gonzaga, and your preliminary main event, Ioana Claudia won.

So looking back, this was a fun night, Luke. Nate Diaz, RDA Nate Diaz, not Nick. Are you sure about that? I was like, RDA fought Nick? Did I screw that up, Luke? Yeah, it's okay. One thing I want to point out too, I went back and I tried to make sure I knew when this was happening.

This is around the point where you're beginning to see Miočić ascend the rankings. Here's what I mean. If you look at 2011, 2012, and 2013, in the top 10, not the top 15, but in the top 10, Miočić doesn't really appear. I'm sure you can find an example here or there where that's not true, but in general, he doesn't really appear. I'm sure you can find an example here or there where that's not true, but in general, he doesn't really appear there. It's 2014, BC, when he begins to appear very consistently inside the top 10.

It is 2015 when he begins to move up the chains, and now the only guys in front of him are your Overeems, your JDSs, obviously your Canes, that kind of a thing. So this wasn't just a moment to see how good he could be. This wasn't just a moment to sort who might get a title shot. This was also a moment to be like, are you going to break up this cane JDS sort of old school monopoly? And at that time on that night, he came pretty close,

but in a good effort, but he wasn't quite ready yet. It also underscores that the, the, the, the handoff hadn't been made yet at heavyweight. Well, the handoff had to be made Luke, when he figured out that missing piece to his game, the five round championship stamina, which he would get to show in this very next fight. Fair point. And I would also argue BC, this guy is accidental or no luck or no in terms of the people who have beaten him when they beat him he comes back so much better so just like he showed roy nelson a bad night after losing to stephan struve we have him losing to jds he comes back

and he faces mark hunt i think this was in in Japan if memory serves I've double checked that but Adelaide Australia Australia that's right that part of the world had the home you know Hunt had the oceanic fans going nuts for him yeah well sort of it just was one of the biggest beatings we've ever seen Miocic defeats Hunt technically at 247 of the fifth round BC I think Mario Masaki reff ref this fight could have been stopped a lot earlier this was an absolute whipping from pillar to post yeah this is why there are twitter and ig accounts called death by yamasaki to your point but look this was rinse and repeat take down beat down all over again a hunt was one two and one in, Luke, and he had gotten knocked out by Verdum pretty recently. So he wasn't at his peak form by any means.

And Stipe, there's nothing to learn here, really, besides the fact that he fixed whatever cardio issue he had. Now, look, he wasn't necessarily tested huge throughout these four and nearly five full rounds. But, man, he had pace. He had everything. And how about Ken Flo on the commentary saying a lot of talk about Stipe's size but he fights like a little guy so we're seeing that consistent

understanding Luke which is a great point that this guy just moves so much better than these bigger old school punch or nothing type fellas and oh by the way Luke if he didn't have those other intangibles obviously he wouldn't be where he is today. Holy crap, dude. Steve Bain was complete this whole time and I missed it, Luke. I mean, it's fun to see this journey he's taken. And yeah, he improved little aspects of his game, but this guy was the real deal from the beginning. But his lack of flash, it fooled me every single time, man. And he didn't make a big show of it in the media either.

He was never really a great vocal advocate for himself, which we'll talk about in just a second. But let me read some of the stat lines on this first. We see Miocic in this fight through 464 strikes, landing almost 400 of them. Significant strikes, 113 to Mark Hunt's 33 in round four. Miocic landed 24. Mark Hunt landed one. A total of six takedowns for Stupin Miocic.

Control time at nearly 17 minutes. He destroyed Mark Hunt. It was never close. Maybe the first round was a little bit back and forth. And then after that, forget it. He put the pace on this guy. Well, Mark Hunt had one moment, Luke. It was a flurry to end round two where he landed three punches off of the break. And if there was going to be a moment where it was going to fall

apart, it was that for Stipe. But good God, Luke, do we ever talk enough about Stipe's chin? I mean, seriously, do we ever? Right. I mean, this is what I mean. He's got so many different things he can rely on, not as like a crutch, but it's just a talent or a skill or an attribute that he has to carry himself to victory. And he's got good defense, but in case he needs that good chin, he's got that one as well. All right. So we move up the line here, BC. So now I'm going to argue that starting with the hunt fight and then ending with the first Cormier loss, that period from 2015 to 2018, we're now in the thick of it against Arlovsky. This is the most dominant period of his career.

It's where he gets the title and he just has first round finish after first round finish. So Andrei Arlovsky at this point was in the top 10, I think even top five maybe at this point. He was two. Luke, I'm going to interrupt you and say this. We talk about mountaintop moments. This was Andrei Arlovsky, including his run through World Series of Fighting, where he worked himself back into being a UFC fighter, Luke.

He had won six in a row coming in, including wins over Brendan Chobb, Bigfoot Silva, Travis Brown, Frank Mir. And this was really the last time Andrei Arlovsky was like a quasi, not quasi title contender, Luke. He was number freaking two in the division. And oh, by the way, this loss would kick off five of six defeats and two and eight over his next 10. So something happens, Luke, when Stipe knocks these guys out. They're never the freaking same.

Seems that way. He wins, Stipe Miocic does, against Orlovsky, just 54 seconds into the very first round. You know he's a good boxer. You know he's got big power, BC. But the guys he was blowing out, the Phil DeFrieses and the Maldonados, you were kind of thinking they were lesser than fighters. They weren't at the top of the food chain.

Here he has a guy who in that moment in the rankings, to your point, had ascended quite highly, and Miocic still dusted him off. This is, to me me when he was building in 2013 on those moments to really put the pieces of his game together the fruits of that labor it was showing before but it was blossoming here is what I would say and I want to make this point to what you're saying earlier where Stipe has never been his greatest advocate he doesn't talk trash he's not a great interview. Really nice guy. You can write some human interest pieces about him, but obviously Luke, he talks too fast. There's not a

lot said there. This moment was uncharacteristic when he put away Arlovsky because go back and rewatch this fight from 2016. Stipe gets the finish. He sprints to the cage like he's Conor McGregor in Boston trying to get to jose aldo he leaps over it he settled celebrates with his team and he looks into the camera and says give me my shot i want it and then he goes look i'm a world champion i'm a world champion you never see that type of emotion i'm sorry the world champion part came against verdum. I was looking ahead. But to look into the camera and yell, give me my title shot, Luke, you don't see that. It's one of the few times he ever lets his guard down,

one of the few times he ever tries to lobby on his own behalf. And it was an incredibly poignant moment after a very legitimate, overwhelming victory there. Now, he followed it up pretty quickly, BC. That was in january 2nd of 2016 now we jump to may so just a few months later he fought fabricio verdum now this was an interesting one this was a stadium show ufc 198 verdum versus miochic in curachiba parana brazil famous home of shoot to box i think you had all the Brazilian legends on this card Jacare Vitor Cyborg was on it Shogun was on it and Demian Maya was on it and on down the list it was a real

showcase of Brazilian MMA but not in the main event BC and I have to tell you I got this one wrong spectacularly because Verdum and and by the way you keep doing it and we've both done it in the past on the series it's not just who they beat it's who they beat at the time in which they beat them heading into this fight with Stipe Miocic Verdum had not lost since 2011 he had beaten Roy Nelson Mike Russo Russo whatever Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Travis Brown Marquant Cain Velasquez he had finished Cain Velasquez and Marquant heading into this contest BC and I thought okay Stipe is great but there's just no way he can win against a guy who's got good striking he's got Muay Thai he's in Brazil on the ground forget it and he dusted him off in two minutes and 47 seconds Stipe Miocic became your UFC heavyweight champion.

What can we say about this contest? Yeah, and I screwed up earlier about the jumping over the fence was this fight. The fight before was when he got uncharacteristically angry looking into the camera and screaming for the title shot. Luke, he deserved this title shot. He got the opportunity. And you talk about earning it. Stipe had to go into Brazil, to your point. 45,000 fans going sick for Verdum. So you're in enemy territory. Yet I wonder in hindsight, Luke, right, if this played against Fabricio. He had a full one-year layoff since putting it on. Sea level came there up in the elevation in Mexico

and upsetting his way to the heavyweight title. Although to your point, that run he had leading in was incredible. You saw a Verdum that may be uncharacteristically Luke. Yes. Went for an early takedown and got stuffed, but was looking almost to knock Stipe out. I wonder in hindsight, if Verdum fell in love with his striking because of how brutal he put it on Kane

and maybe just overlooked Stipe, maybe just didn't realize what he had because Verdum was almost uncharacteristic in the recklessness of how he would chase him down, of how he would try to land shots, and then ultimately we know how this finish ended. Stipe backpedaling, not even planted and throwing punches while going backwards. And that sweeping shot knocked out Verdun cold. So Luke, he paid for his over-aggressiveness, yet that's a hell of a knockout from a guy who after the fact in the interview, after screaming, I'm a world champion, going nuts, reminded everybody talking to, I think it was Rogan saying, I don't always throw full power, right? But I have the power. And when I need it,

it's there. Luke, this was a very impressive finish the way he did it. In some ways, it was strange to your point because Verdun was chasing him down along the fence line, which is like no, no city and backpedaling stipe just still found it was a very chuck liddell-esque chuck liddell was remarkable early in his well actually early in mma but during his run because he could back up take several steps back at once still plant and throw and have a serious power a little bit hard to do at times to really get that weight transferred the right way and you could see stipe do it as well um it was just one of these moments have a serious power. It's a little bit hard to do at times to really get that weight transferred the right way.

And you could see Stipe do it as well. It was just one of these moments where it was like, wow, this Verdum that the layoff ended up being pretty critical as we found out. And in the heavyweight, it's like, you're not, it's like a banana. It's like, you're not too old. You're not too old. You're not too old. You're not too old.

Okay. You're too old. Right. You said they go Brown overnight, like the bananas, you know, it's kind of interesting, but in this particular case, to to me it was less impressive how he won although that is you know good timing and everything else but to me it was more like oh right like this is still very much up for grabs if for doom who i thought was going to be the guy can be beaten in this way because he's fighting this way there might be more parody at the top than i even then i wasn't

sure to really to really fully expect what he could do and and and understand what his upside was but I did see at this moment there's going to be much more parity I thought that these figures like Kane and then when Kane lost to Verdun I thought that those were like the ironclad unshakable foundations and when those guys lost you're like well I guess it's anybody's ball game Stipe is pretty good so let's see what he can do but it definitely caught me by surprise there's no doubt about it now this is where Stipe gets to return home we fast forward now same year 2016 he is defending his title for the first time it is September 10th 2016 he fights perennial contender it was so funny BC when I was going through heavyweight rankings from 2011 on verdum is just a top excuse me not for dealing sorry over him top five fixture

every single year it is amazing to see how long he has remained competitive but it would not matter much in this one controversies aside he defeats t, Stipe does, Alistair Overeem via first-round KO at 427 in Cleveland, Ohio. This was the card where CM Punk made his debut, which probably added to some of the sizable sales figures. Oh, it added a lot. It added a lot. But Miocic got tested a little bit early. Didn't matter in the end. And gets on top, essentially, of Overeem and then pounds him out.

Don't even go that fast through the description. It's crazy in hindsight that this fight only lasted 3 minutes and 12 seconds because a lot happened in that time. 4 minutes, 427 is the official stop of the first round. Oh, excuse me. My fault on that.

Let's talk Overeem real quick. We talk about Stipe keeps facing guys at the peak of their power. So look, Overeem's peak of his powers was knocking out Brock in terms of UFC Overeem, right? Knocking out Brock in his debut. But don't forget that Overeem lost three of four after that, Luke. And to be honest, it was Bigfoot. It was Travis Brown.

It was Ben Rothwell. These were fights he should have won. Two of those three, he was leading heavily and sort of got reckless. But to his credit, Overeem had figured out how to be sort of prime second half of his career UFC Overeem. He had a four-fight winning streak coming in to get the title shot. He had knocked out Struve, beaten Nelson, knocked out JDS, knocked out Arlovsky. So he was a different Overeem, Luke. He wasn't the destroyer coming into this fight. And I think I was most surprised early on that he fought very passively. Overeem was almost running from Stipe. And I remember in the moment going, what the hell is he doing? You know, go in there, be the damn demolition man, you know, look to get the Muay Thai clinch.

Yet even with that, he came that frigging close Luke to winning the championship and Stipe having an oh shit moment I know we make a big joke about it I know there's a website I know every time I interview either of these guys I bring it up because I love that bullshit but Luke did if you ever go on record did Stipe tap here let's be honest Stipe did not tap but I can understand why and this was actually a pivotal moment because it was actually after this where Rogan was openly saying things like, I don't think we should be interviewing concussed or KO'd fighters. And that rule hasn't always been adhered to,

but it's probably a decent North Star to kind of guide your actions. But to your point, yes, gave Cleveland what they wanted, even though it got perilous at times. But this is really the reality of fighting at this level. You can be a plus athlete. You can be well-rounded. And more often than not, that's probably going to help you can be a plus athlete you can be well-rounded

and more often than not that's probably going to help you in this case it did being well-rounded and everything else that he has but it's such a thin margin of error at the top really just one wrong move i think slipping against struve probably cost him here it didn't so sometimes it bites you and sometimes it doesn't but in any case you you would have a hard time arguing that over the course of let's say two fights that they had to make one that over him could withstand the accuracy and the power of miyoshis boxing which was really just a frightful thing now especially but in 2016 when he was just mowing people down that was just too much for him so i still think the right guy won yeah and Alistair

did feel it but that's another debate for another day here's what I learned from this in the end Luke is that you talk about the prime run after the JDS loss we saw the absolute prime destroyer run of who Stipe was knocking out all the heavyweight contenders early knocking out the champion Verdum uh and then coming into this fight. This was the first time I learned what Stipe's heart is made of. And that's something, Luke, that he would need to lean on much more in the upcoming fights than he had to earlier. Yes, a big part of his early run was that some of these guys, whether it's Gonzaga or whoever, they'd hit him with good shots

and he'd keep coming. So we knew he had a great chin. But sometimes, Luke, there's a difference between having a great chin and being able to respond when you're hurt and being, cause there's guys who don't have great chins, but you know what they have great resolve, meaning they can get dropped. They can get knocked down. They can get hurt, but they can figure out how to get out of it. I think we learned a steep pace, adaptability and toughness here because he did get struck hard from over him. He did go down. He was in a perilous position. Yet when he figured out a way to win this wild fight

in this wild first round, I think we learned more about his character in the end. And I think this was a wake-up call in a lot of ways because even the knockout of Verdum in which you knew he had power, I think you still rightfully could have said, is Stipe a transitional champion? Is he a workman-like lunch pail champion? He sure ain't Kane, right? And I think that the biggest heartbreak I have, and maybe it's a better conversation for this next fight in terms of the timing, was that Kane never, prime Kane, never got a chance to fight prime Stipe. To really find out whose era it really was. Now it's Stipe's era in the end because to the victor goes the spoils. He's got the records for title defenses. He beat everybody, right? But this was a time where Kane was looking to make a comeback, Luke, and it kept getting delayed. Yes, he finally came

back the following year against Travis Brown and blew him away. But I would have loved at this time exactly coming off this Overeem win to really find out what Stipe was made of against prime Kane. The timing just wasn't right. Kane's body never got prime again, but you would have to say this, Luke, considering he took damage here, there were still a lot of haters who were saying, okay, good win Stipe, you're tough as balls, but you ain't special. You ain't spectacular. Luke, I was in that category. I hate to say it. I still wasn't given this man his flowers,

even with all those fights we were talking about coming up here. Yet in hindsight, boy, was I wrong because all the signs were there. And I probably was one of them as well. I mean, not that I'm hating is a strong word, perhaps, but just not really understanding what you're looking at. Listen, people are poor evaluators of talent. I've been a big proponent of that and we're probably just as guilty when we're trying to be evaluators of talent. Still,

it was a good reward for the Cleveland fans. It made him feel and look bigger than as a popular attractive figure than maybe he otherwise would be as a box office draw outside of Cleveland. So it was just nice to see him bask in the glory of Cleveland. I'm not going to put it on par with LeBron winning the championship with the Cavaliers in the second run, but it did have a little bit of something to that, a Cleveland, this is for you kind of moment, which was good to see.

Now, we move to the part of his career, BC, that I find kind of interesting because they were never going to let him just beat the very top of this division once if you did it once you were going to have to do it twice if you did it twice you might have to do it three times in certain cases so he lost to jds the first time but now it was the rematch although the tide had turned a little bit you have here the date may 13th 2017 we're in dallas texas i was there with uh for sirius xm with that i remember i got to interview jorge mazdal on that card bc at media day because there was no one in line to interview him i'll never forget that he was

wearing all black you can go back real quick on that i was in the cbs sports studio in fort lauderdale because i just joined the company and we got satellite interviews with the fighters and i interviewed jorge and i remember remember telling everybody in the newsroom, if this guy could only win some fights, he could be the biggest star because his interview was hilarious and out of control. That was one of those moments I look back on and I'm always like, I cannot believe how far he's come.

But okay, we're talking about Stipe here. He faced JDS UFC 211 main event. I remember I went to the Open Workouts BC and they had Ioana there. They had JDS there, and they had Stipe. Ioana got the biggest pop of the three. JDS got the second biggest one, and Stipe got a decent one, but it wasn't as big as the other two.

This was one of those moments where it's like, wow, is it going to be like Demetrius where people just realize he's good and no one cares? And you want to talk about a reflection of where they were going in their career this fight ends bc at 222 of just the first round jds did well early with some calf kicks but basically stipe no sold them and knuckled him into the dirt your reaction so okay first of all this was uh the performance it should have been right it was stipe having learned all of his lessons from the first loss to junior and having put it together, win the championship, come back against Overeem.

But, Luke, tell me if you remember this. I remember thinking, why are we doing this fight, okay? Because let's be honest. It was three months before, before Stipe fought Overeem, that Kane had come back and destroyed Travis Brown. So you're looking to build towards Stipe versus Kane. Unfortunately, Kane's injury didn't make that possible. And I think at that point, Luke, 2017 May, there just weren't any big names in the heavyweight division.

It was going through a little bit of a reset. Although Junior Dos Santos was fresh off a win that bought him a lot of time and got him back into this title shot, which was that five rounds against Ben Rothwell, where he just boxed his ears off. Luke, he didn't take damage. He was quick. It was sort of like a, Oh, JDS fountain of youth. But you know, he had just gotten knocked out by over in the fight before you mix that with the brutal fight with steep, a, the two brutal KO losses to get, or one KO loss and one decision loss to Kane and the title bouts. Luke, I remember the talk of the town, at least in my circle,

was that JDS is shopworn. This fight is a little bit unnecessary. We're only doing it because of the story of the rematch, and JDS is a name and a former champion. You could argue that then or now or whatever, but it doesn't really matter because Stipe went in there and sent him to help very quickly. No, your recitation of what the narrative was was correct.

No one really thought JDS – I'm going to say no one. The casual fan probably thought JDS had a real decent chance or thought it was going to win outright, but insiders were a little bit like, this may not be exactly what the first one was. In fact, it probably won't be in it probably in in steve's favor and played out although you know again jds made a decent account of himself in the first couple of minutes but it just didn't when it went when it went south on him it went south

like that it was almost instantaneous and so in that sense it all all the same pronouncements did come true but it kept the chains moving it kept the chains moving. It kept him as this champion. It kept him as this guy who was the figure. There was really no one else you could put in there that was going to beat him, except maybe, maybe big Francis could do it. We fast forward January 20th, now 2018. This is Boston, Massachusetts, BC UFC two 20 steepipe Miocic fought and defeated Francis Ngannou over the course of five rounds. Now it was a little bit dicey early at times. There was a couple times throughout where maybe Francis would land a shot or two, but this was a fight where Stipe really proved his worth in the division using well-rounded skills showing that chin showing

his own punching strength great cardio he commanded that octagon in a way that Francis was simply unprepared for uh and that was I think the first time folks were like wow dude Stipe is really a force to be reckoned with when I say people I mean long-standing skeptics how about that and let's remind this constant theme I'm butchering, you know, hitting you over the head with, that C-base fighting guys and their absolute mountaintop moment. Only this time for Frank Ngannou, right, Luke? He fought him at the top of his first mountaintop moment.

Now he's fighting him this weekend in the rematch once again. But let's remember where we were right here for Francis Ngannou. He was 6-0 in the UFC, and he was fresh off just over two months ago one of the if not the most brutal knockout in ufc history when alistair overeem had started to reform himself after that loss to stipe that we mentioned and he just got brutalized in round one so So Luke, it was a little bit controversial, a little bit controversial that UFC had allowed Francis to jump the line, that they rushed him back two months after that over in KO to give him this title shot, that they were essentially saying we might have the next Mike Tyson of MMA or the first, you know what I mean? Like we might have something crazy, super

special to the point, Luke, francis was the betting favorite and i remember interviewing stipe ahead of this i remember the narrative going are we really gonna gonna give the keys to nganu i mean look they kind of rushed this fight into existence after nganu knocked out over him really the company saying this is our guy let's pick him up so not only do you have critics, media guys like us who maybe missed how great Stipe was during the stretch, you almost had the company against Stipe. Now they're not really, right? You get how marketing and promotion works, but I remember interviewing Stipe ahead of this fight and him saying, yes,

I believe the UFC wants Francis to win. So let's not forget that narrative coming in, in terms of how often Stipe has been forgotten, overlooked, the underdog. And then, Luke, what I love about this fight, yes, we remember that he exposed Francis' lack of a ground game, and Stipe showed all of his intangibles to win this and win this handily. To your earlier point, he got hit. His face was a mess. He had to walk through the kind of hell that every other Francis opponent doesn't hasn't survived. Right.

Except for that weird fight with Derek Lewis, that when you get hit early by the Francis and Gano clean bomb, you don't come back. Stipe came back, bro. And he kept wrestling and he was smart and he adapted and he made adjustments oh man do i do i kick myself for not only missing it missing out this entire run but probably going to kick myself in advance luke because if you're going to ask me this week who i think's winning on saturday i'm probably going to tell you francis and ganu will i learn my lesson on steve bay luke i don't

know but can but this was a hell of a victory I mean the the first round you had Francis probably believing all I got to do is touch this guy and he will fall and a couple times getting through landing 15 of 62 significant strikes so he had a moment by the way Stipe only 16 so they were just off by one strike in terms of who landed on each other but you did see Stipe getting out of spaces, ducking and dodging, seeing things coming for the modest success that Francis was able to have in the first round. And there, BC, it falls off a cliff. Francis landed just four strikes in round two,

just one in round three, zero in round four, and one in round five. Meanwhile, you've got takedowns, two in round two for Stipe, one in round four, one in round five, and he had two out of five in round one. It was just a dominating performance. Now, there was, to your point, it was interesting. On the one hand, you're like, dude, Stipe can handle this physical beast, still win, has good cardio, shows all the things you've got to show,

but I do remember some of the narrative being like okay but Francis was a fish out of water his corner maybe should have thrown the towel this was going nowhere for him he took a beating unnecessarily and I do think it affected Francis after this who had the Derek Lewis fight and just could not show up there at all had to have a real reset moment in his career I guess I bring this up to say BC there was a lot of really positive talk about what Stipe could do and what he represented there was still also a bit of yeah but he fought either an old guy in Overeem or a amateur not really an amateur but you know someone who had some amateurish tendencies in. There wasn't quite the sense of, I'll say this,

unanimous fan belief that he was as transcendent a heavyweight figure as we now know him to be. And I know that not everybody believes me, and I've already said it, but I'll say it again. Because you didn't get the natural handoff of him beating Kane, there were people like me who still to this day believe Kane's the best UFC heavyweight I've ever seen. We just never got to see them get together.

That was held against Stipe even at this point, Luke. You got to remember that. So now we go to a very interesting turning point in his career. Again, he defends his title, Stipe Miocic does, in the first of three bouts with the same, excuse me, first of three consecutive bouts with the same guy, January 20th, same, excuse me, first of three consecutive bouts with the same guy. January 20th, 28, excuse me, huh?

He loses the title. He doesn't defend it. Well, I should say it's being defended all three times. How about that? One way or the other. Excuse me, not January. July 7th of 2018. This was UFC 226 Miocic versus Cormier.

This is interesting for a couple of reasons, BC. They had just come off a season of The Ultimate Fighter. They were the individual coaches for the respective teams. That had been announced or even debuted sometime around January or so. And they had six or seven months to promote this. I distinctly recall going into detail on this fight with Dan Hardy and other ones on the record, off the record, talking to coaches. Got a lot of different looks.

And in the end, Cormier makes pretty short work of him, winning at four minutes and 33 seconds, pulls an underhook away from Stipe, and as they separate in the clinch, drills him with a right hand he never sees coming, drops him, and then finishes him off with a series of punches I hate to say this now BC but I will tell you what I thought at the time at the time I thought well some of this is some of this is true I thought Cormier his power was better at heavyweight than 205 I still think that is true but I thought aha you see Cormier has now exposed, not exposed,

Cormier has revealed that there is a larger truth here, which is that Stipe had a chance when he was playing with the old guys and he was playing with the young guys. Yeah, it's fine, but the ones who are right in the middle, that porridge is just not right for him. He can't have it. That's where the real big dogs go to play. Cormier is that big dog, not him.

I will tell you that I stupidly thought that at the time. What did you think at the time? Yeah, sadly, in hindsight, Luke, this was a justification in the moment of all the under rating of everything that that Stipe had done good to your point of saying, OK, finally, he went in there with somebody super skilled who could expose the fact that yeah he's a hard hitter and he's got a great chin but there's something basic too basic about Stipe right he doesn't the big you know there's again there if you weren't looking close enough and that's why this project is fun because it forces you to go back and look close enough you could miss some of the things that make Stipe great and that he does great

let's also remind ourselves this was a magical moment. I was cage side. This was the international fight week. This was Daniel Cormier who never was able to beat, win the big one against John Jones. And John had the drug test and John had all this. Cormier getting the ultimate redemption moment to kind of put himself either in or right on the outside of that upper table of the greatest of all time. And the fact, Luke, that he did it by noticing something in the tape, that Stipe exits with his hands down off the clinch. Just a beautiful performance from Cormier.

His speed and power were there and moving up in weight. But, Luke, he did have a pretty serious eye poke early on Stipe. That may have played a big part let's not let's not forget that but sadly Luke yes I sort of looked at it like okay Stipe had his run but I'm sorry guys just because nobody in UFC history had defended the title three times in succession and Stipe had a chance to do that doesn't make him the best heavyweight ever as you can see here Cormier is really the best heavyweight ever. Or maybe Kane.

It's just that DC was in the wrong division because he's too good of a friend of Kane. I don't believe that stuff now, per se, Luke, because Stipe has shown us time and again and he would show us in fights two and three against DC. But on this night, Luke, you had to feel bad for Stipe because every, I mean, they tried to rush Ngannou in there against him, and now he loses. And, Luke, if you remember, he wasn't supposed to get the rematch with Cormier. He had to wait 13 months to get it.

And during that time, they were trying to get him back in there, and he kept turning down fights. To Stipe's credit, he stayed a shrewd businessman, and it came back around again again the opportunity to try to get his belt back no doubt about it and i just remember i i had talked to marcus marinelli who was the coach of stipe i remember i talked to dc in the in the when the rematch was announced and i'm like dude you had seven months to get to that place what could you add at this point in your career to get ahead of Cormier I really

thought that then of course he would go on to beat him twice but I'm just sort of pointing at the time you're it's weird dude myopia is a hard thing to shake a worldview about someone is a hard thing to shake and change it takes time it takes big events it takes big changes and at this moment I obviously if you can have three title defenses as a ufc champion you're really good fighter i mean there's that no one's really debating he was very very good we're just debating about what the pecking order and the sorting was and honestly bc some of the bullshit media narratives who's the greatest now who's the greatest now who's the greatest now these perpetual conversations we try to have after every few months when in reality

it's just gonna have to be a long time before you can ever really assess these questions. Stipe was something of a victim to that. And I also remember, BC, I think he wanted like an immediate rematch and it took forever to get one. He did not get one because Cormier, I think, would stay busy during this time. Didn't he fight? He fought Derek Lewis, I think.

Not soon after, not long after this, correct? Well, he fought they offered him big money when the original New York main event for that MSG card kind of fell apart they offered DC big money to fight Lewis he was injured Luke but he decided to delay the surgery until after fighting Lewis so this kind of had Stipe as the odd man out right just sitting back saying shouldn't I get a rematch didn't I have the title defense record what the hell's going on here and to again to his credit he sat out and he waited for it and I think I think I was actually against the rematch because I was like you didn't just lose you lost quickly you lost inside the first round you should go and get another win

and maybe he would have had to if things hadn't shaken out the way they did, but lo and behold, we continue, and we fast forward to August 17th, 2019. This is UFC 241 Cormier versus Miocic 2. I believe we are going to be in Anaheim, California for this one. We're now into 2019, and in this one, I thought it was going fairly poorly for Stipe he had his moments but in the end of the fourth and towards the end of the third too but really in the fourth he begins to hammer home left hands to the body to the to the liver to the ribs to the solar plexus it eventually brings the hands down of Cormier Cormier by the way this whole fight not listening to his coaches, not listening to his corner, just doing whatever he wanted to. Having success for the most part,

but just ignoring them about some of the deficiencies that were there. Miocic lights him on fire with those body shots, finishes him with shots over the top, and reclaims his title. And then BC dances the jig. And I have to say, for the first time, even if I thought this was accidental, I again had to take Stipe more seriously than I had before. Luke, for us, Stipe deniers, and believe me, I was the fan club and organizer of this. This was our final chance to dig in and make one last stand. Do you remember when you and I did a show called the MMA Beat Together for a short season? I viewed the theory that Stipe didn't win the championship back in this fight. DC lost it. Luke, I don't know if my opinion has a hundred percent changed, but when you have that opinion,

you're certainly not giving Stipe any credit for toughness, making the adjustment. But what I saw in this fight at that time was DC dominate Stipe with wrestling in the first round. It did not even look competitive. And I saw a guy to your point, stop listening to his corner and ran out of gas. I think to this day, DC's issue in the second fight along with, and he admitted it to me afterwards, maybe not being in as good of shape as he should have been. And that's on him, Luke. That is

on him. He takes the L in that regard. I think the key part about it was he did not have respect for Stipe's power. And what he ended up saying was in rounds two and three, as he's eating shots from Stipe, he's saying, I'm not getting knocked out here. I'm taking these well. So he kept trying to walk Stipe down. The problem with Luke was, as Stipe has shown us so often, you're not going to knock him out like that, right? He can go into those deep waters. And this is where ultimately I took the biggest L. The fact that Stipe was able to make an adjustment, a key adjustment in that moment to go to the body and get rid of DC. Luke, you could argue this is his best win just for what it meant

and for how deep he had to dig and make the change to do it. It's not the most dominant Stipe we've ever seen. It's not the one without error, right? He was on his back the whole first round, but everything that Stipe is actually about was on display in this fight. This is a beautiful victory that I missed in the moment maybe being a dc super fan with rising at luke i do think dc did things to let it slip away but holy crap between the finish of this fight and what would happen in the trilogy should we just admit it luke stipe is a better heavyweight all-time than dc and just get it over with and stipe is the best heavyweight ufc's ever had in terms of accomplishments and consistency and longevity.

He's the guy, bro. He is, in fact, the guy. There's no denying it at this point. And by the way, I should be clear about this. It doesn't matter if he wins or loses at UFC 260. It's got nothing to do with his... Everything we've gone over is enough to cement him in that position until someone else can come along,

and then in that body of work, show purpose and ability but you're right and all the way there but it should be pointed out here too there are eye pokes in this fight as well and they played a bit of a role how much it's hard to say exactly we don't really know he continued with the fight although we know either after the first or the second fight he had to get some kind of eye surgery and repair for some of the corneal abrasions but it was kind of interesting about this contest for some of the corneal abrasions. But what's kind of interesting about this contest we see is, despite the fact that Stipe won, he was at least numerically outstruck by a pretty considerable margin.

Significant strikes landed for Cormier, 181, just 123 for Stipe Miocic. It really wasn't until that fourth round where things began to turn a little bit. In fact, in every other round, he was numerically outstruck, 37-7 in round one, 56-46 in round two, 57-34, and then only then 31-36 for Stipe Miocic. But they both got one of three takedowns. That was also pretty key here too, BC, was how, yes, he got taken down obviously in this fight, but over time you found that

steep A's wrestling. I mean, he didn't make it to the Olympics. I'm not saying he's as good of a wrestler as DC, but in the end, his wrestling was good enough to handle DC's wrestling. I do think that is true. It was among the, the very things DC did wrong in terms of being cocky, Luke, his double slam that he had on Stipe in round one, it probably gassed him. It was probably unnecessary. Luke, for anybody hanging on to the DC lost it thing that I invented, it's probably not sustainable, especially at his size, that you can wrestle like he did in round one over a five-round championship fight. So that was probably a window in which he dominated, but you really can't sustain that. And Stipe is also not going to let you sustain that because he is a big guy and a credible wrestler.

So again, what a performance from Stipe. And Luke, people forget this was a war. This was an actual war, a war of attrition. It was sloppy at times, but it was a two men going out there and slugging in those last couple rounds and it was a performance of the night bonus for both of them as well so not only did you get your title back you won the main event and you did it capturing a belt and you got a little extra money for it on top which takes us now bc to uf UFC 252. This was August of this year during the pandemic, Las Vegas,

Nevada at the apex facility. It was UFC 252. As I mentioned, the number there, Miochic versus Cormier three. So back to back to back, the only opponents that he had fought Miochic was Daniel Cormier. And in this one,

BC, it just was never really there for Daniel Cormier. He won the first one. No controversy. Well, I poke controversy, but otherwise not that big a controversy. Second one, controversy, even though Stipe won, excuse me. But the third one, he was just better. Nearly dropping him in the first, controlling him throughout.

Obviously, there was a horrible eye poke on Daniel Cormier late, but at that point you're like, dude, you kind of been raking the other guy's eyes for 10 rounds. Like, I don't know how much I feel bad about it at this point, to be honest with you. What's your takeaway from first, let's talk about what we're talking about the trilogy, just UFC two 52 and what that win meant. It's just the ultimate answer to any critic, including me,

because, you know, he didn't come back in this third fight and dominate in wrestling. Like we thought maybe if he changed his game plan and got in shape, he could, and he wasn't able to outstrike or hurt and drop Stipe. This was just a solid performance in which Stipe, who again, had moments in which he showed great adaptability to change his game plan in key spots and figure out a way to win, he had an answer for every single thing DC tried. And this was as thorough and solid a championship performance in arguably one of the

most important fights in UFC history, really. I mean, there was a lot of historical lineage, or not lineage, but legacy elements at stake in this one. And Stipe was great, Luke. He was great. And he didn't boast afterwards and say, hey, B-C-F-U, but he could have, Luke, because a lot of people had counted him out each and every time. Yet even in his advancing old age, this was such a thorough

and beautiful performance that it's rightfully so that what was at stake was the GOAT title for heavyweight, and he clearly wins that now. such a thorough and beautiful performance that uh it's rightfully so that what was at stake was the goat title for heavyweight and he clearly wins that now yeah so the scores were 249 46s for steep a 148 47 that one came from judge junichi real comedian was a very very good judge so what i would say is here you know i contrast this with the first the first JDS fight that Miocic had because in that one you had a it was you know competitive early with Stipe very good for him early kind of faded down the stretch a little bit and then that fifth round really gave the fight away that's what happened here for DC it was a bit of a back and forth between them Stipe coming out strong I think the fourth

round was a decent one for Cormier in terms of the numbers itself. He had maybe won one or two rounds. But let's say you had to at least assume it was 2-2 going into the fifth. That's not necessarily what you had to do. But if you wanted to be very, very forgiving of the scores and you wanted to really put yourself in that position to win, you could do that. And the reason why I bring that up, BC,

is because he put his foot on the gas in the fifth. He gave it away the first time against JDS in the fifth he did not make that mistake this time he had more output he was highly accurate landing 77 percent of his significant strikes he did attempt two takedowns they didn't go anywhere but he was at least controlling and he had two minutes and 27 seconds of control time overall so he put in just more work what tells me i i i don't mind seeing the zeros up here for the failed takedowns i don't mind seeing that because what it tells me is if i can look across the stat sheet and you're just doing more every time than your opponent chances are

if all other things being relatively the same you're going to win and that's what he did he put in just more work against the guy he had barely beaten before, or, you know, whatever you want to call that lost to before leaving. No doubt. I remember when this fight was over BC, I said to myself,

whatever the stakes greatest of all time, blah, blah, blah. Stipe is going to win this. And the right guy wins. It's like Leon Blahovich. Everyone knows I love how to sign your BC,

but the right guy won that fight. liam blahovich everyone knows i love how to sign you bc but the right guy won that fight right guy won this fight too and you know what i love about this trilogy win for stipe is that he didn't like outlast dc he didn't uh you know he didn't lean on certain intangibles where you're like okay stipe is really tough but is he really the most skilled heavyweight he had a great game plan he showed great iq I mean he really showed you everything of who he is in this fight he out thunk Daniel Cormier I mean that's a I mean look it shows you that Stipe learned his lessons Luke whether it was the stamina dump against JDS whether it was the the way that he needed to be more focused and in better shape from the loss to Struve I mean each step or even the fact that DC in the first fight against him had figured out a hole in Stipe's game.

Well, guess what, Luke? By the time this third fight came around, there were no more holes. And that's that's crazy that it all came together so late in his UFC career. But could you make the case that he's a fine wine, Luke? He gets better with every fight, every lesson learned. And given that heavyweights can age late and Randy Couture can be so competitive in his 40s in the modern era, I don't know if Stipe's going to beat Francis on Saturday. But I also am against counting out the idea

of him being one loss away from going away. I don't think Stipe's going anywhere, Luke. He is still pound for pound level in this sport at this moment. I really love this trilogy, BC, because I love the adversity of it. Obviously is a big one. I love the finality of it. You know, you, you lost once to this guy, but when it really came down and everyone had two tryovers,

you won both of them. That's a big deal to me. And I think more to that point, it's like the thing I take away from this trilogy is this was the one like how do you know this was impactful bc yeah it was recent so there's a recency bias but more than that you and me have been to varying degrees wrong about this dude way more than we've been right and after this one we were like where are you supposed to go with the skepticism now where do you put it where do you say he doesn't have good cardio nope he can't beat the the guy the big guys and the big ones nope he doesn't learn from his mistakes nope you don't have anywhere to go anymore and no one's the

perfect fighter and again he might get the fucking his shit rocked he's fighting francis and ganu on saturday dude you know as well as i do it doesn't take a whole lot for that guy to win but i'm just pointing out when you look at the body of work in this trilogy it tells you everything you ever needed to know about stipe miyoshis character ability perseverance tactical smarts and uh in the end you just have to look at your skepticism and say it was fucking wrong it was wrong it was wrong and this guy is the best heavyweight that this organization has featured can you imagine if he does what is is not the most likely outcome on saturday but knocks out francis and gato that is the ultimate ultimate final answer right i mean we thought the dc trilogy win was the ultimate sort of, you know, are you not

entertained? What else do I have to do? But this could be incredible as it all comes full circle and leads back into this Saturday at UFC 260. I'll make one more comment about Stipe. It's something on a personal note. BC, I wonder if you feel the same because you've had to interact with him in the same way I have. When I've interacted with him and

to an extent his management and people, I found them to be quite nice, normal, friendly you know professionals fine uh but you know it's you can't really argue that he was a media darling ever even when there were people sort of singing his causes or defending him getting a title shot it was never like yeah he always had a core group of supporters yes and especially now but there were times where that was not necessarily the case. And I would get very frustrated with him because I'd want to interview him and you would put him on the air and it would be terrible. It would be a really bad interview, either because he wanted it that way or that's just

not a skill. But I have come to really appreciate his approach to the game. You know, he makes a ton of money and then goes back to his normal life the way that he is always intended to. He knows that this is short-lived. He has a direct line through Twitch and other things to his core group of supporters, and that's not insignificant. And this whole thing about like,

we always wanted him to play a bigger role in MMA. And so we had to lobby on his behalf in the end. But just realizing that I'm going to keep MMA at an arm's distance and I'm going to keep my life and I'm never going to play those games I'm not going to be a part of the clown car I'm just going to do what I have to do and then that's what it's going to be you can like it or not I have come to really appreciate that I've come to find that that's actually a much more wise way to approach things it's really refreshing and to your point we held it against him for so long yet. What I noticed in rewatching all of the post-fight interviews here is how often he says, when they say what's next, he says, I don't care. I just want to get back to my family

and my friends. So here's a guy who does have his values in order. So that that's certainly a cool thing, right? I mean, look, many UFC champions would have given up their side job as a fireman and paramedic, right? But here's a guy who, like, loves giving back to his community and being a family guy. And you could say, okay, that's cool. That's great. But, Luke, that has possibly been his secret sauce in the fact that I'm sure he loves the money and what he gets to bless others around him with from being this. But he's not caught up in the lifestyle at all, Luke.

He don't care about trash talk. He doesn't care necessarily about legacy. Losses have never seemingly held. They motivated him to get better, but he's never been destroyed and distraught, Luke. And how many times have you seen him get a big win and deliver the most ho-hum post-fight interview because he understands what role this is.

It's something he's really good at, Luke. Some of us are good at some things on the side, maybe old man basketball or the freaking paddle ball league down at the YMCA. He has that same attitude, but yet he's a UFC champion. It's wild, Luke, all right? This is just something he does as a hobby, and that has been, I think, a real secret in him able to stay in his lane he hasn't always been best friends with dana white and ufc brass

right yet he stayed in his lane worked hard got better and look where he is today i mean steep i'm sorry i'm sorry brother yeah i'm sorry very much a guy who did it his own way for the long if not entirety of his career long stretch and it takes us of course now BC UFC 260 takes on Francis Ngannou we're going to cover that more on morning combat but I really more than the other two Connors obviously got the size of the the grandeur of his career Adesanya has the incredible speed and the and the the wowing you with technique and for we were kind of you know you realize Conor was important pretty early on I realized this you know Adesanya was important early on and you got on that pretty

quickly as well both of us fucked this one up but I'm glad I really enjoyed going through this guy's resume watching the old fights fight pass was very helpful in that way. Of the three we've done, I actually had the most fun doing this one. What about you? Yeah, I would agree with you on that regard, definitely. All right, so with that out of the way, we have to call it a day. We have Morning Combat coming to you all week. We'll have a post-fight show for UFC 260, whether it's Francis or Stipe wins. I promise if Stipe loses, we're not going to bury him again.

But we hope you enjoyed this walk down memory lane. This has been the Stipe Miocic resume review right here on Morning Campbell. So for – or Morning Campbell. Morning Combat. Soon to be Morning Campbell. Let's call it Morning Campbell. Yeah, yeah. You know what?

Just call it Morning Campbell. This is fine. All right, so for Brian Campbell, I am Luke Thomas. This has been the resume review. We will see you all next time.