MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Simone Biles, Doping in Weightlifting, Jon Jones | Luke Thomas' Live Chat, ep. 83

Episode Date: July 30, 2021

Today on the podcast, we'll discuss the growth of mixed martial arts (MMA) internationally, what to make of the gymnast Simone Biles at the Tokyo Olympics, Jon Jones's potential issue with Luke, top movie directors, the effect of doping on weightlifting, how Bellator's Patricio Pitbull and AJ McKee would face off against any of their UFC featherweight peers, how to train toughness and heart, T.J. Dillashaw's suspension and more. Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit: store.sho.com   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat  To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi everybody! I'm actually recording this privately rather than doing one because it's late at night. Well, not that late, but late enough. And I'd rather do the podcast than not do the podcast, but it's late. And I don't know, for some reason it just made a little more sense to me to just record it here and then make it public later hi my name is luke thomas this is episode i'm sure i think 82 83 of my live chat appreciate you guys tuning in uh i will go for about an hour maybe a little bit less and i'll get to as many of your questions as i can in that time you guys know the drill thumbs up on the video, hit subscribe. At least I'm bringing it to you in some form, usually when there's a big event over the week, especially one

for Showtime or CBS. I'm not able to do these, but because I'm at home, I can at least get some version of it in. All right, so without further ado, let's get this party started, and we're back. All right, so let me turn this subscribe off. I'm not going to waste any more time. I'm going to get right to it. And as you guys know, on the community tab on Wednesdays, I put up a thread. You guys fill it up, and then I react to it. So here we go.

All right, question number one. Group of international MMA fighters you're most excited about. Hi Luke, the growth of international MMA has been exceptional these past couple of years, with countries that weren't even on the map before now being represented on the biggest MMA stage. From these teams, if you could pick two out of the five, which ones would you pick and choose? Team France, Cyril Ghosn, Menon, Fioro, Nasruddin, Imhovov. Team Wales, Jack Shore, Mason Jones. Just two out of the five. Oh, I see. And you got some from Georgia, Davalashvili, Tepuria, Giga Chikadze, Kazakhstan, Rachmanov, Zuma Gulov, and then Sergei Morozov.

And then Team South Africa, Dregas Duplessis, Don Madge, and JP, is it Baze? I can never remember how to pronounce it. I'm definitely going to go with Rachmanov. As you guys know, I'm high on Shovkat Rachmanov, so we'll go with him. And then I'll go with Cyril Ghosn. I think Cyril Ghosn is probably at some point, whether sooner or later, going to wear gold, and I think Rachmanov probably is as well. I think those two guys are exceptional. It's funny. Even if the Colombians are not part of your demographic, we Chileans are here representing. One of our producers actually looked into it. There are more Lithuanians who listen to

the show than Colombians. I mean, I couldn't show Colombia more love, and they don't show a lick of it back but what are you gonna do what is the worst as in darkest trash talk a fighter has said in reference to Connor where even Jones and DC didn't discuss dead parents blah blah I mean on the regional scene I've seen everything you know I'm gonna bang your girl uh which isn't like dark exactly but like you know I'll kill your family things your girl, which isn't like dark exactly, but like, you know, I'll kill your family, things like that. I've heard all kinds of stuff on the regional scene. In terms of like high level MMA or even boxing, I've said before, the stuff Mayorga said to a

lot of people, including Dale Hoyer, was pretty fucked up. I'm going to drink your wife's breast milk. That's something. But usually they're all, you know, in Mike Tyson, I'll eat your heart kind of thing, and I'll eat your children. To Lennox Lewis was pretty bad. Those are some of the darker ones that have stood out. On the regional scene, though, I've heard it all. I've heard it all. Why hasn't Bellator ever matched up Michael Venom Page with Raymond Daniels? Now, what weight class does Raymond Daniels compete in in MMA? Is he, I don't know, is he an actual welterweight? Let's see. He might be.

So, in MMA, he is welterweight. Yeah. Great question. Don't know. You know what? I'll ask Bellator. I legitimately, I mean, I think MVP has always been a little bit more contender-ish and Raymond Daniels, you know, I think he, I don't know what he's doing with his MMA career.

He's fought for Bellator four times. He fought in Strikeforce all the way back in 2008 in a middleweight bout, and now has fought four times for Bellator, once in 2019, two times in 2020, and then once in 2021, as early as, or as you said, as recently as April, which was a rematch from his fight in 2020. I don't really know, but they're not closely matched in terms of rankings rankings. So maybe that's it, but I'd have to ask. It's a great question. Do you think anyone at middleweight will be able to keep Izzy down like Jan did? It's pretty obvious that no one else is as naturally big

and strong as Jan at middleweight. Yeah. It's something I've thought about. I think if Vittori couldn't do it, I'm a little bit skeptical that anyone could do it. And you could even say, well, well, if Yoel was still there at middleweight, he would have been able to do it. But Yoel is not that kind of a guy either. He's got great, super explosive takedowns, but he usually uses them for, you know, to introduce chaos into something, to something disruptive, or like to set up strikes off of it. He doesn't use it to hold down top pressure, ground and pound type.

Not a whole lot. Obviously, he finished Leo Machida from elbows, but he's not take you down, pass guard. Typically, that kind of a thing. So it wouldn't have been him. The one kind of X factor out there, and I don't really know if this is even fair to say, because I don't really know where he's at, coming or going. Would maybe be Luke Rockhold? Luke Rockhold's probably

got good takedowns. I know he's got very good jiu-jitsu, really, really good. I know a few folks that have rolled with him have told me he's the real deal Holyfield when it comes to that. So that would be an interesting one to introduce, but like Whitaker, you know, former welterweight, he's probably not going to be that guy. Let me look at the rankings here just to see, to be clear. Yeah, Cannoneer, no. Paul O'Coston, no. Brunson, they already fought. Hermansen would be kind of a maybe there. Hermansen, because you go right for it.

But he doesn't rate the title shot. And then after that, the next one would be Chris Weidman at 12. And obviously, I don't even know if he's going to fight again, given some of the issues and difficulties that he's had. So the answer is maybe, but not really. It really goes to show, again, when I made the last video that I made on my personal channel, it was about Israel Adesanya's first MMA loss, and it was, of course, to Jan Blachowicz. And then in the course of studying it, I only intended to look at the takedowns themselves,

what takedowns did folks use and did it have success. But then in the course of watching the film about people who did get takedowns themselves. What takedowns did folks use and did it have success? But then in the course of watching the film about people who did get takedowns on him, you know, they were just much less able to keep him down, much less able to flatten him out, much less able to do anything. He was, Adesanya at 185 pounds is a dramatically more dynamic grappler. And I think partly that speaks to the fact that, you know, obviously jujitsu is not his first and primary skill set. He's worked on it diligently. He's a purple belt under Andre Galvan. I'm sure he's a legitimate purple belt and he can handle himself quite obviously in MMA and what he's been able to show. But, you know, there were some limits to that once, you know, there was a big weight or at least something of a weight disparity introduced

by Blachowicz. Plus, Blachowicz, man, this is the thing that everybody sleeps on. And I bring it up for his stand-up, but it's kind of true about his ground as well. When you look at his ground game, you don't go, oh, well, he's just an incredible passer. My God, nobody takes the back like Jan. It doesn't really work that way with him. But what he does do is really the fundamentals. He's a smash passer.

He likes to, you know, he's not a heavy passer in a sense that he's constantly large to say he's not a continuously aggressive passer but once he's on top he likes to flatten he likes to hold he introduces enough damage typically to keep it but you know it's just a very clever smart way of winning rounds and if you can put enough together obviously when you're fighting and you got it there stay out of trouble that way you. There's just a lot of smart things he does that are not, they don't pop off the screen. His power does when he strikes, obviously. Okay, but that aside, there's a lot of elements to his game that don't just grab you, but then when you inventory why he won, you begin to see these patterns of just really kind of, you know, putting a lid on the pot,

so to speak, and letting the fight simmer in there. And he's the one in control of it. It's not, you know, it's not an explosive way typically to win in that way, but it is effective. It's very effective, and he's got it. This is an interesting question. Your thoughts on the whole Simone Biles Olympic situation? Yeah, it's a fascinating one, man, because, well, there's a lot of reasons why it's fascinating, right? I mean, Michael Bisping got, I think, criticized for his takes. I listened to them. I tried to, you know, for people who've competed in sports on a high level,

I try to always give them the benefit of the doubt in the sense of hearing them out. It was weird too. Like, I bring this up. Let me take it. There's a lot of different competing things here. One thing I bring up with UFC all the time, because I see it all the time

and some of the sources that I follow, not sources, but media sites that I follow or whatever, that are right wing. You see the UFC getting a lot of high praise with them in one direction or the other. Either with Dana or their product or their, like, you know, we don't give a shit about COVID attitude. Like, whatever it is, you see them get a lot of that. Obviously, Dana White has spoken on behalf of Trump, and he's a big fan of him, and blah, blah, blah. I'm not here to make, in any way,

make a judgment about the merits of it. There is a conversation to be had about that, but that's not what I'm doing here, so nobody sweat it one way or the other. And then I've noticed that, like, there are some leagues or some players that get a lot of praise in left-wing media. Or I should say, at a bare minimum, if they're not left-wing media or even conservative media,

media whose audiences are either conservative or either liberal, whatever the case. So there's this weird divide that's happening. And some of that you saw here, like your Clay Travises were going after Simone Biles. And then on the other side, and then, you know, on the other side. I mean, this was the part that really kind of bothered me about the media coverage. It's like, look, here's the basic way I look at this, aside from sort of the media angle of it, in terms of, you know, what sources were saying nice things, what sources were saying bad things. Beyond that, though, the thing that got to me was like,

some of the early criticism of her was really moronic. That's not to say there's not a criticism to be made, but the ones that they were making like, I saw some people be like, she's not the GOAT. The GOAT wouldn't do this. I mean, folks, she could have never participated in this Olympics ever, and she'd still, by a wide margin, be the best gymnast who ever lived. That's just a silly thing to say that doesn't really hold up. I think everyone's successes and everyone's failures all get put on the resume,

which I'll get to in just a second. But what I mean to say is there were some of the early criticisms of her that were just totally stupid, and then it resulted in this media coverage all in response to that that was like way over the top you know like she has this uh documentary that was made about her in 2018 or 2019 called like courage to soar you know like when she's out there doing big things it's all a bunch of courage and then she withdraws from the tournament and then they also label that as heroic and I'm like well let me get this straight if she competes and she wins it's heroic if she doesn't compete

and doesn't win that's also heroic I mean folks it can only be heroic if it's falsifiable under some condition it can't be both it can't be that if you compete and you win, you're heroic. And if you withdraw and you don't compete, you're heroic. So, you know, there was just this really over the top, quite literally hero worship built into the media coverage that I didn't, I didn't really agree with. This is basically where I come down on it. Look, man. I don't really judge her for what she did for two reasons, or one basic reason, I would say. Which is that if you're not feeling it, and if you continue to compete, you A, could make your team's chances of winning any kind of medal worse,

or B, you could cause injury. And the kinds of injuries you can get in gymnastics, in the particular events that she would have to have done literally can result in catastrophic injuries. Like, here's the thing, man. It's about the same rule I apply with fighting. I would apply with something like that, which is you only should be there if you want to be there. If you don't want to be there either before the fight

or in the middle of a fight or before the competition or in the middle of a competition, it's too dangerous to arm twist somebody into trying to do it. A little bit of go-get-em, a little bit of the Teddy Atlas or fireman when he was talking to Timothy Bradley Jr. in the corner, a little bit of that definitely can be valuable. But it looked to me like whatever the case was, she was probably past any kind of cajoling to get back in there. She just didn't have it that day. And that's okay, dude. Some people just don't have it that day. And if you're going to get injured or potentially compete and get really low scores,

when the sub who was there could come in and take your spot and do better, give your team a better chance to win, that is the direction you should go. So, like, in that sense, I don't really have an issue with it. I think the other part I would say is, you know, look, man. We're talking about the greatest gymnast who ever lived. She probably, you know, in terms of the expectation that she was still the best gymnast who could perform, who should have won gold, ultimately the team won silver, you can say that her actions cost that team the gold medal. And I don't know that that's necessarily true, but let's argue for a second that it's true. Let's just claim that it's true.

Even if it is true, again, I'm going to go back to it. This is not an ordinary, even Olympic gymnast. This is the very, like literally far and away, the very best to have ever done it. In other words, you got less than what you were expecting for the 2020 Olympics. But what about all the other competitions where she just blew motherfuckers out of the water and just raked home medals, individual and then lifting her team? In other words, in other words, you know, if it was like sort of like a, maybe you just barely made the Olympic team or you weren't really like a clear medal winner and you were fucking up

mentally and whatnot. Yeah. Maybe the judgment should be a little bit harsher. But if you have her record of achievement and she pulls out in what I would call at least from a sporting standpoint in the way in which she did it before it could have gotten worse, pretty responsible, I think you should let it go. I really do. I think you should let it go. Yeah, we're grading her on a curve. I think you can argue, oh, it's by the principle of it, blah, blah, blah. We're grading her on a curve. Okay, we are. But this is such an extraordinary case with who we're talking about here. Even if you wanted to argue she cost her team whatever the medal would have been. She's elevated their performance for so many different tournaments in so many different ways that I think you can just say,

yes, it would have been nice if that had not happened. We'll add it to her resume. Again, all your wins and all your failures will get added. But in general, the ledger is pretty lopsided, man. There's a bunch of Ws here and, you know, this L. Okay, you can call it an L. And there's some other ones there as well. Probably along her gymnastics career.

I doubt she's had a perfect career, as good as she has been. And so in that sense, I would let it go. I think the only thing I would say is it's like people are making her situation not to be in the media, like above reproach or even praiseworthy. And there are parts to it that are praiseworthy. Like if you don't think you have it, save yourself. If you have a situation that, you know, there's a real, it's regrettable that it took until the Olympics

for it to happen, but there's a certain level of pragmatism once she was in the moment to remove herself. There is a certain amount of smarts to it, frankly. But like, you know, I saw some people being like, oh, well, you know, what about taking care of your mental health? See, this is the part where everything falls apart for me a little bit. Because I don't know that high level achievement in sports, particularly like, you know, Olympic world champion for MMA, UFC belt holder, whatever. I don't think winning at that level really has anything to do with grounded mental health, quite frankly.

Everybody who, not everybody, that's too much of a generalization, but I've seen so many instances of people taking extraordinary lengths that are not good, not merely for their mental health, but like you know, this is the sort of argument I have about doping as it relates to USADA and UFC which is, you know, show me the evidence

that their introduction made fighting any safer. It didn't. There's zero evidence to indicate that fighting isn't, and I don't think the fans would even want it to be safer, but if anything, it's actually gotten more dangerous, I would say, over time. Now, why do I bring that up? Not about doping exactly, but I mean to say that, you know, look, dude, like MMA is a particularly egregious example, but dude, these girls get fucked up from gymnastics. Years of broken tibias and messed up feet and concussions and separated shoulders and cracked ribs,

and they just get injections and keep going. It's constant. I don't know if it's even ethical, certainly given some of the ages of these gymnasts, not Simone Biles per se, but some other ones who are like 14, 16 years old. Do these young girls even have agency about what they can say yes and what they can say no to when they have all these adults kind of pressuring them? I'm like, dude, if you don't want to be there and you think you're going to make it worse for your team or potentially yourself, yeah, you should withdraw.

Obviously, there's a broader question about, you know, if you're going to call yourself the GOAT. I remember NBC did some interview with her. I watched before the Olympics, and they were like, can anyone beat you? And she's like, I don't know. I don't think so. And I'm like, maybe don't answer questions that way.

My only point is I think there's a small amount of criticism to offer about having some awareness about what your competitive limits might be. But at the same time, everyone, again, dude, we're talking about the most decorated gymnast ever who has moves named for her that they had to give her the name because no one else can even attempt them. It wasn't her day. It wasn't her day. It wasn't her day. And I think we should let that go. I think the bigger issue for me, honestly, is the hero worship from the media that make any form of critical reflection verboten. I'd have much less of an issue if it was like, well, there's a little bit of criticism you could offer here or there. But in the old Gransky thing, it's probably not all that big.

And hey, by the way, her career is so distinguished. This is a fairly small footnote. Why can't we just say that? There's this, oh, she let down America. She's a quitter. She's weak, which is just absurd. And then on the other side, no, she's a hero. This was a heroic thing she did. No, it's heroic. I don't know about that. Like, oh, she's advocating for mental health. Okay, that's good on a personal level. I got to tell you, a lot of these people who win medals are fucking sociopaths. Because I don't think you can win medals necessarily. Some people probably can do it and be quite normal.

But I bet there's a lot of people who have driven themselves to absolutely insane fucking degrees. Like, you know, this idea. It's not clear to me, like, it doesn't need to be heroic, but it's also not clear to me, like, what about it would even be heroic? Pragmatic? Wise? Yes. Unfortunate, given the timing? You know, but like, heroic? You know, running into a burning building is heroic. And even in the athletic contest, I think the heroic thing, I'm not sure what the heroic thing would have been necessarily. I think, you know, sports heroism is pretty limited, quite frankly.

And again, you know, Carrie Strug, she did something that was sportingly heroic, but probably terrible for her health, probably long-term consequences for her mental health. Like, at some point, you know, people are asking the Olympics to be something it can't be. Oh, we should really care about these athletes' mental health. Yeah, of course, man. I'm not, you know, I don't wish them ill. They're human beings.

They're deserving of certain care but we're talking about the most elite end of world athletics you know what the fuck does mental health got to do with that not much

but you can't say any of these things because everyone loses their mind and thinks you're attacking her it wasn't her day. It wasn't her day. Even the goats. Even the goats don't have ... What was that play where Brady completely fucked it up because he misread what down it was and he fucked the whole thing up? Dude, even those people have those moments. It happens. It happens. That's different because he was playing the game and messed it up. But, you know,

I just feel like there's a small amount of criticism, a moderate amount of criticism that's probably warranted that wouldn't be a big deal, but for the fact that there's this media war that makes any kind of sober discussion about it impossible

why do you think eastern european and central asian fighters are starting to become really dominant in the main also to an extent boxing they have long histories of of it um pretty obviously right like someone asked me or someone asked us on i think, Monday's episode of the show if Muay Thai really goes through with full Olympic sanctioning, what countries would dominate. And I got some of them right, but I got most of them wrong. And some folks who knew a lot more corrected me on social media very kindly. I appreciate it, actually. And, yes, Russia would be big, obviously. But Ukraine, big.

Kazakhstan, big. Russia would be big, obviously. But, you know, Ukraine, big. Kazakhstan, big. France, also big. But, you know, you add in the Sambo that runs through there. Judo is big in the former Soviet satellite states and obviously Russia. So you've got boxing is big there. You've got wrestling is big there. You've got, you know, Thai striking, Thai boxing big there. You've got wrestling is big there. You've got Thai striking, Thai boxing big there. You've got Sambo, Judo, wrestling, striking.

I mean, everything. Everything is big there. It's no wonder that they do so well, quite frankly. On the last live chat, you said you guys wouldn't be going back into the studio on a regular basis. At the beginning of the lockdowns, you said you couldn't wait to get back into the studio to make the show. What changed? I don't think anything really changed all that much. It sounds like it changed, but not really. It's a bit of a work smarter, not harder kind of thing. Listen, that year I was hosting the MMA Beat, the MMA Hour, was one of the just most difficult years of my life. I would go to New York. I'd get up at

4.30 in the morning on Mondays. I would go to New York. I would do Dissected. I would do MK. Then I would go into New York City. I was in Jersey City before. I'd go to New York City. I would do three hours of radio, and then I would go at like 7 o'clock. I would take a, usually my train was at 645. I'd take a 7 p.m. train down back to D.C. It's about three and a half, four hours each way with no traffic. When I say traffic, I mean on the tracks themselves, obviously. But there would be times where it would take five, six hours. I wouldn't get home.

Then I'd have to go back and do it all over again on Thursday. So I'd have a two-day break between. And then I'd have a three-day break over the weekend. And it was just over, over. I mean, it was so, it was so terrible for me. It was so terrible, and the pandemic obviously has been terrible. Lots of people have lost their lives and their livelihood and everything else, but in the sense that I did not have to keep doing that, and of course, I had left MMA fighting by that point, but I was still going up every Monday. By the time the pandemic

made me stop that, I didn't realize how much it was killing me. And so I definitely wanted to get back into studio, but then when we did, it was like, we don't need to do this every single Monday. But here's what we're thinking. One to two times a month, yes, but not just going up on a Monday, shooting the show, and then going right back down. What we would actually do is go up on a Monday, do the show, and then spend several days there. And in the course of doing it several days, we would spend the rest of that Monday and that Tuesday,

probably some of that Wednesday as well, recording all kinds of extra content. Like that resume review is a perfect example that we did for Pitbull, which like five people saw, but it is really good. We're really proud of it in terms of the work itself. And so what I would say is we're looking to do something like that. So just work smarter, not harder. We definitely still want to go up. We obviously, everybody can tell that the show is better when we're in studio. We know that, you know that, not a secret, but you know, he has kids. I have a daughter now. Um, you know, if there's just a regular old fight night, it doesn't necessarily make a ton of sense to spend the money to go up and, and deal with the

hassle and do the show. Um, pick your spots and then when they're there, make them count as much as you can. That's really sort of the way we're thinking about it. Almost exactly two years ago, you provided narration for a BuzzFeed video showcasing someone with no experience training in MMA with the end goal of competing in a sanctioned bout. Have you seen the video in totality? Yes. And if so, what'd you think of it? Yeah. This guy, this BuzzFeed reporter, he was like making a good faith effort at trying to uh have an amateur fight and he did all the things you guys might imagine he was working on his diet he was training like a madman he was documenting all of it you know and he sucked

mostly for the as every anybody who would trying something new, certainly something as difficult as fist fighting for a living, you know, competitively anyway. And he lost his bout. But, you know, listen, there's no shame in that, obviously. I take my hat off to anybody who tries for the most part. And certainly I take my hat off to him. And, yeah, I thought it was a really honest, difficult take, you know, to go and try so hard for something.

Because the guy did put in an absolute ton of effort. He really did. He really tried. And, you know, he made a decent account of himself, and he lost in the end, but that's the way the fight game goes, right? It's cruel, and winning is difficult, and it takes a lot of courage to show that kind of stuff to the world. So, he did. Yeah, I was frankly honored he asked me. I was honored he asked me. Who in the UFC's featherweight division would you pick for fun crossover fights with Pitbull and AJ McKee? Dude, it's hard to go wrong with any of those. Ortega, Holloway, Yair, Volkanovski too.

I don't know how rip-roaring those would be, but those three would be easy calls. Josh Emmett, even to an extent Jeremy Stevens, depending on how you want to look at it. You couldn't do it. AJ McKee, whether he wins or loses as a fun fighter in Pitbull, I don't know if he's going to win this weekend or not, but he's an absolutely dominant fighter.

This is like, hey, which of these girls who are 10s would you like to date? It's like, you know, swing a dead cat and get an excellent choice. Luke, you've often noted that you're not sure what you said about Jon Jones that sparked his dislike of you. Whilst I can't prove this, I recently came across your harshest take I've heard you give about him

and I can't help but feel this is what may have done it. The following was taken from a 30-minute mark of your UFC 200 post-fight vid on the MMA Fighting YouTube channel in response to him being removed from the card for an anti-doping violation. I'm paraphrasing the following in good faith. Included the timestamp above so you can verify it for yourself. Okay. So here's what apparently the quote is. I have not, again, I've not vetted this, so this is not real.

I apologize in advance, but I'm going to read it just the same. Quote, He's unbelievable, isn't he? After this one, I fundamentally changed my view about him. For him to be as successful as he was for so long, I wonder if that was just aberrant, and what he really is is what we're getting now, and what we got the last few years. I hope that's not true, but I'm now going to operate under a jaundiced viewpoint of him.

After the last go-round and this go-round, I don't even know what you can say in his defense anymore, to operate under a jaundiced viewpoint of him. After the last go-round and this go-round, I don't even know what you can say in his defense anymore. Even if it's accidental, it's just not okay. Yeah, I don't really take any of that back. In fact, I think it's actually proven to be quite true, at least more recently, less so. But, you know, when he comes back and they have to move the whole event from Las Vegas

to LA for him, you know, you might be right. That may have done it. I don't know. Could be, but yeah, if that's it, then for sure I don't apologize for it. And again, if that means I don't ever get an interview with him again, then that's what that means. Top three movie directors of all time in order. Number one for me is going to be Kurosawa. Forget it. Easy call.

P.T. Anderson, I'd probably put two. Three. Man. That's tougher. That's a tough one. Because Kurosawa and P.T. Anderson, they make movies in the sense of, these are not the guys who are innovating on,

they're not like the Wachowski brothers who made the Matrix, right? They're not doing those Wachowski brothers who made the Matrix, right? They're not doing those kinds of camera tricks. They have other very, including Kurosawa, very sophisticated ways of making shots and scenes look certain ways with all kinds of incredible knowledge of lenses and cameras and lighting and how elements in a scene work together to work with your mind and what, I mean, true talents in every way. Third, I would go, see, okay, you can pick, people have like Kubrick, yeah, I mean, you can't go wrong with Kubrick, Coen Brothers, Scorsese, all of them. I want to pick someone who's like, who's the best director at action movies?

Not just because the movies were good, but because they made the action better with, you know, again, the Wachowski brothers setting up all those cameras and then using everything 360 for things like that. I don't know who that would be, frankly. You're asking me something, I'm out of my depth, but I'd be leaning in that direction. There's a boxing question.

I'm just going to skip it. Sorry, I don't feel like answering it. Sorry. It's a perfectly good question. Dan Hooker, I'll skip that one too, in fairness. Interesting question. I'll answer it one too, in fairness. Interesting question. I'll answer it the best way I know how. Do you attribute your being well-spoken mostly to reading,

or do you think a conscious effort has been made to learn new words and improve your vocabulary to better express yourself? Here's a little revelation for you Up through at least third grade Or so Maybe even like fifth grade I had a speech impediment My speech was really slurred Everything kind of fell on top of itself

And some of the speech issues Were not all that uncommon Even many adolescents experience some form of it. I had a particularly bad one. I wouldn't call it severe, but bad. And I had to slowly work my way through it, partly through reading, partly through conscious effort at getting as many words as I could,

and then partly for years, this is true, years of conscious effort at trying to articulate in a way that was slowed down enough, that was clear enough, concise enough, and I still struggle with all of those things, but all of those things working in concert got me to a, I don't know if I'm exactly well-spoken. I appreciate the kind words. I'll just say got me to a better place is a pretty fair way to put it. Yeah, that's what it was. I had a hard time speaking.

I had a hard time making people understand me. And so I wanted to use as many tools as I could, including just making basic language pronunciation or even enunciation easier to grasp, but then on top of that, adding layers of nuance that gave me greater command of the language. According to the New York Times, Olympic weightlifting's days are, quote, numbered due to rampant doping, yes, and corruption among judges, yes. What's your take on this? All true. And why would it potentially be canceled when sports such as pro boxing have had the same issues

without being called off in a similar manner? Well, remember, they threatened wrestling with elimination for a variety of reasons, and then wrestling went through a series of reformations, and they got to keep their spot. Of course, the weight classes changed and were eliminated to some degree, but they've to keep their spot. Of course, the weight class has changed and we're eliminated to some degree, but they've reformed their rules in terms of scoring offense,

and in many ways it's better now. There's a question about whether the International Weightlifting Federation, IWF, is really up to the task in the way that USA Wrestling and other governing bodies were. So that's really part of the bigger problem, but is doping a major problem in Olympic weightlifting? Dude, I mean, I might be even underselling it, but there's going to be a significant portion of people who win medals this Olympic cycle. And then a year, two, three, four, eight or so from now, you're going to see that a bunch of them were fucking cheating.

A bunch of them. You know, and people have been asking me, and I'm not in any way insinuating like I have evidence or proof. Although historically, even in recent years, China has had a lot of problems with doping either enforcement or infraction. But have you seen their lifters? Like, who was it? Was it Ji Shiyi who won 73 kilos, I think is his name? But obviously, like, you look at Lu Xiaojun. You know, these guys are fucking bricked up.

Who was the 73 kilo? This dude, and he was squat jerking all of his finishes in the clean and jerk. Like, you know, he's not splitting his legs. He's just keeping them in place and then just easing the weight down to bottom position overhead in a squat. I mean, I can't even tell you. You have to be so, so strong for that. You have to be so, so strong for that. You have to be absolutely just out of control. Not just like strong, strong, but like you have to have really clear command and balance. Yeah.

No, I got his name wrong just a little bit. It's Shi Ji Yong. Shi Ji Yong was the name. And he is, you know, again, I don't know. I have no idea if he's doping. I couldn't possibly tell you. I just mean to say, you know, the eye test with them, a lot of the dudes who they compete against don't even look a third as bricked up as they do.

But also, you know, China's recruitment of athletes for Olympic Games is second to none. And the kind of resources they provide for certain events, weightlifting among them, is second to none. Chinese weightlifting in terms of best practices is second to none, and the kind of resources they provide for certain events, weightlifting among them is second to none. Chinese weightlifting in terms of best practices is second to none. You know, this is the thing, this is the problem with untangling all of this. Like, I saw The Economist had some fucking absolute zealot in anti-doping, and maybe she would walk it back if I could really stick it to her. was her name god i forget her name she told the economist and the reason i know this is because they put up a like an audiogram on twitter where like the the image doesn't change but you can hit play and you can listen and she said you know with steroids we know that you can make an average athlete a world champion what What the fuck are you talking

about? Are you out of your mind? What a total lie. Look, you don't have to lie about steroids or other performance enhancing drugs. They work. That's why people take them, right? They clearly work. Sometimes they take them in ways that don't work for them, but you know, listen, there's plenty of evidence to suggest the right drug with the right protocol with the right athlete can have a very pronounced effect. But it doesn't make people superheroes. An average athlete could be a world champion in weightlifting. No, the fuck you could not. No, the fuck you could not.

You could not take a strong, good crossfitter, dope them up, and make them win a gold medal. Not going to happen. It's a complete lie to say something like that. But what it can do is, if you have two elite lifters and one of them gets the sauce, they're going to put a big gap on the other one. Yeah, for sure you're going to get that. Yes. That is real. That is very real. And that's the only thing that has to matter. But it transforms average athletes. If that was the case, do you know how much roids would be coursing through my system right now? And how many gold medals? I'd look like fucking Slick Rick with my gold medals just dangling. Are you kidding me? What a fucking stupid, totally demonstrably false thing. And the economist

reprinted this. I couldn't fucking believe it. You know, just crazy. But this is what I'm trying to point out. Like, dude, I don't know if any of the Chinese lifters are on something. Let's imagine for the sake of argument that they are. We're going to imagine that they are, yeah? Again, they've been caught plenty of times in the past. Let's just imagine. Even if you took that away, dude, they're still going to produce elite lifters. Many of them across both genders, across numerous weight classes.

Now, as dominant as they are today, who knows? Again, we're under the pretense that they're using um but you're still going to get they're still going to find out of all those kids ages six and seven they're going to find the standouts they're going to give them best practices for 20 years and then they're going to send them off to international competition and they're going to run over a lot of people and that can be true whether they haven't had a drop of anything in their lives. That's the issue. The issue is not that it transforms fucking abject losers into winners. The problem is that it skews how you understand somewhat the middle of the elite pack and then the elite pack itself. And

again, there's going to be plenty of cases, outlier cases, where someone from a B group will be able to compete and win in the A group. Yeah, I'm sure there's outlier cases where other elite lifters have been able to, even with a big gap, been able to close some significant gaps. But average lifters, what a fucking ridiculous, ridiculous thing to say. So to answer your question, listen, this is the problem for me. I'd rather just have weightlifting where you can compete in organizations and in tournaments and events where doping protocols are enforced, and I'd like to offer the alternative to folks who just like to use. Strength sports is always going to have a lot of people who are going to want to use because the benefits, and there's been some back-of-the-envelope math

that it can fix your lifts about 10%. Now, that doesn't sound like much to the naked eye, but if you bench 400 and then now you can now bench 440, and let's say in your weight class, the guys who are leading are around 420, yeah, 440 is enough to lap them and get big wins. So 10%, again, it's back of the envelope math. A lot more study needs to go into it. But I would like to see alternatives offered. I think that I really, at the end of the day,

I don't really believe you can pull out doping from weightlifting worldwide. You can hammer the Americans with USADA, waking them up at 5 in the morning if you want, but the Georgians are never going to respect, or whoever, they've had doping issues too. The Colombians. The Colombians were going to be fielded. I don't know if folks know this, but in the Western Hemisphere, this is true, the Colombians have one of the better, if not the best teams, especially on the women's side. They had so many doping infractions. They had eight slots available to send to the Olympics.

They were only allowed to send three. They were only allowed to send three folks to the Olympics, one of which, Luis Mosquera, just won silver, I think in 73 kilos, if I'm not mistaken. That fucking guy's speed under the bar is amazing. Anyway, here's another case of it all the time. I don't really believe, I think it's absolutely foolish to believe you can take out performance enhancing drugs from weightlifting. You can't, I don't, I don't think you can. So the best thing I think you can do is give the folks who want to use an outlet to go use and then make some rules about if you want to go that path, it might limit some options about what you can do on the anti-doping side and then try to adjudicate

the world that way. That is no solution either. That will not fix the problem. You will still have doping. It will still be an issue that you have to contend with forever as long as it's banned. But I tend to think that's a much more realistic one. I think it's better for the sport if you had for-profit. Also, this is something that the anti-doping folks don't want to tell you. If you had weightlifting where everyone was allowed, or at least a lot of dope is different, you just don't test for it, which is what happens in powerlifting and certain federations are tested and untested federations. If you had that, frankly, I think that would be a compelling alternative to the clean, stupid term, product. You know, you now have to compete with folks who don't have to

worry about getting woken up at six in the morning so they can, they can go through and they can use what protocol they have, get through training, compete, um, against everyone else who's got the exact same opportunities there. And I think you'd see some Herculean lifts. Um, and I think that'd be fucking great, actually. So, you know, everyone wants to be like, oh, it's a scourge on sports. Well, you know, it's here. It's here.

I think the best thing to do is try to figure out what to do about it. If folks don't want to use and they want to be with other people who don't want to use and folks want to watch people who don't use, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. That sounds to me entirely reasonable. But it also sounds entirely reasonable to me that if people want to use, know how to use, and the audience doesn't care and the stakeholders don't care,

and we already have evidence of this in Professional Strongman. It doesn't ruin sports. I think it actually makes it better. It creates for an interesting, compelling product. And I'd be totally in favor of it. Although, obviously, if you lost Olympic sanctioning, that would look bad too, right? But, you know, in a different world, that's where I'm at. TJ, I think you mean Dillashaw, has commented a few times he didn't quote forget how to cheat, therefore pseudo proving that he was clean prior to the Cejudo fight.

Do you think that he had a system with EPO that would go undetected in tests and slipped up somewhere along the way? Or how do you estimate that process? I am skeptical of the claim that the only time he's been caught is the only time he's used. But you're asking me to speculate on information, or you're asking me to speculate and make a conclusion based on information I simply do not have, and it'd be somewhat irresponsible to say anything more. I can't prove anything. I'll say this. As a general rule, there are probably going to be cases where someone who didn't use before, tried it, was not good at using. And when I say that, I mean getting both benefit out of it and then not having it being detected,

getting caught, and then being like the only time. And they're like, fuck, man, the only time I used I got caught? Okay. I'm sure. I'm sure there are cases like that but i tend to think that in general when you see cases of someone getting caught it's only after amount of time where they got away with it before but that's a general rule that's not how applicable that is here you know i um someone says mks pitbull resume review has pushed me to get a showtime sub cool man Someone says MK's Pitbull resume review has pushed me to get a Showtime sub Cool man, appreciate that If Pitbull was to come over to the UFC

Which division would you like to see him in? Featherweight How would he look against the top three in that division? I think he's capable of beating any of them I don't know that he would But the idea that he is out of his depth I don't know that he would, but the idea that he is out of his depth, I don't think is true. How did you miss mentioning Alexander Emelianenko, the Hua brothers, and the Inouye brothers on the MMA Civil Corps?

Yeah, I fucked it up. I had not slept hardly at all that morning. I got good sleep this morning, but I was bad. Sorry. Before he's shot at suspension, TJ had talked about possibly going up and fighting for the 145-pound belt. Assuming he is successful in reclaiming the belt at 135 pounds, how do you think he would currently do against Volkanovski, Ortega, or Holloway? Poorly.

At least against Holloway and Volkanovski. Ortega, I don't know. I need to see how he looks against Volkanovski, but I suspect even against him, it wouldn't be a good fight for him. Do fighters and people in general have a ceiling to how strong their heart can be in regards to handling adversity in the cage and in life in general? I've heard many say it is almost completely natural and a product of upbringing. Habib and Faraz have said this, and can only be trained to a specific threshold among different people. Do you think any amount of training gets you Ferguson, Habib, or even Hugh... Hold on.

Hold on, I think this is... Hold on. hold on just checking something oh no actually it's a real person hugh glass okay uh okay mental toughness so i don't know what the prevailing research is on this. Obviously, people who come from, let's say, difficult or disadvantaged backgrounds seemingly have a much higher potential ceiling in terms of grit and perseverance. There is that. Is it trainable? I don't know, but I can tell you only what I've experienced,

which is about a decade on and off in MMA and BJJ gyms, and then five years military service and various forms of training throughout the course of all that. But there is no doubt in my mind that what I thought was an acceptable level of, there's no doubt in my mind that what I thought I could tolerate before all of that was completely shattered by those subsequent experiences, military, MMA, whatever. There's not a doubt in my mind, not even a little bit, that I was able to suffer through greater forms of difficulty by virtue of that.

And that was true for sort of non-physical tasks, but I think you're asking more about performance in the cage and how it relates to perseverance. Even there, and especially there, what injuries i thought counted um how much extra energy i could show turning off the parts of your brain that even from an evolutionary standpoint are quite rational but are getting you like if you're if

you're very very tired it is rational for your brain to kick in to say, hey, maybe you should stop doing this stuff. You're tired. Quit. You have to learn how to turn that off or at least minimize it as best you can. Not a doubt in my mind. Not a doubt in my mind that I got way better at that relative to what I was before at all. The question you have to ask yourself is, okay, you, through training, were able to reach into a deeper part of yourself to get more out of you. Fair enough. But maybe there's just an innate limit that, yes,

you had to get work. You had to put in work to get some of that out, but you can't fundamentally alter what you are born with or what's there by, let's say, a certain age or something. Some kind of ceiling that you don't think there's a ceiling because, oh, I was here, now I'm here, right? But the ceiling is kind of just baked in. Is that the case? Or is it going from here to here to here to here proves that there is no ceiling? So the question is that.

Yes, do I think mental toughness can be trained in certain people who might need it? Absolutely. Do I think it can be refined even in people who have it? And that even they can be pushed to extra limits. No doubt about it. I have zero doubt that's true. I just don't know what the answer is in terms of how much we actually have and how static that is before the part where we go in trying to make use of what we think is there. I don't know the answer to that. In regards to some of the Olympic sports you mentioned you would be watching,

what have you thought about Japan's dominance in judo this year? Fucking every year, but okay, yeah, you're right, this year in particular. And Shohei Ono coming back from almost a two-year break in international competition to just dominate again. I haven't seen him, but I saw the two, I think it was the Abe brother and sister combo, and them two Bamas were running over everybody. Yeah, I don't know what would explain why Japan has having a particularly pronounced Olympic cycle. Obviously,

folks who don't know the story, I believe this is right. They re... I think Judo was first introduced to the Olympics in 1964, and that was the first time that they had welcomed Japan sort of back into the sporting international community following World War II. And obviously, Judo was the big one because it is a Japanese, it is definitionally a Japanese

sport obviously it has spread far beyond. The Koreans are good at it, the Russians are good at it, some Americans can be good at it, the French are very good at it, the Georgians are good at it. But it is at its, a Japanese invention. And there's the Kodokan there, which is like a judo university, really. It's the hollowed, I mean, some call it even the birthplace of judo to a degree. They're always going to be really good. That's how important judo is to them. As it relates to this particular cycle, I don't know.

But when you understand the historical gravity of what judo means to the Japanese, you begin to realize that they put a ton of resources into making sure that people win there. Okay. Joey Jordanson, the ex-drummer of Slipknot, died recently. Do you like any of their songs? I was never a big Slipknot guy, but for sure I've definitely headbanged to a few of their songs along the way. And 46, ugh, terrible. 47 maybe. Very young anyway. Luke, what would your walkout song be in pro boxing or MMA?

For years I would have said Big Mouth Strikes Again by The Smiths And now I don't know You know what song I heard today? It wasn't all that great But it was perfect for lifting It was I'm not like the biggest ill bill guy I could take it or leave it

But this song It was him And Immortal Technique And I think could take her to leave it but this song it was him and um immortal technique and i think um the lead singer of not soul fly but um it was max cavalera fuck jesus my brain is not working. The Brazilian. Well, I guess no. Soulfly is actually right on the money. Sorry.

I got it right the first time. Yeah, Sepultura. It was the one I was thinking of in my head. But yes, I guess he is with Soulfly. Anyway, War is My Destiny. Again, it wouldn't be my walkout song, but it's fucking good. I kind of like the ones that are understated a little bit. You know, like Robbie Lawler and Dustin Poirier's walkout songs.

I don't know, man. I'm really enjoying going through Vinny Paz's catalog. Cheesesteaks is a fucking great one. What's another song I'm really loving? Oh, Pistolvania is a great, I fucking love Pistolvania. Who the best motherfucker in the streets that you never heard. Was it the four-fifth? Separate your head and it severs nerves. Call me Coco Beware. I carry several birds.

I love that shit. But I still like the understated stuff. I don't know. I guess I would stick with that for now. But I am looking for like an updated how do I answer that question kind of song. All right, we'll do one more. Here's a good one. If Tyron beats Jake, do we see, I think you mean Tyron, do we see him headlining a Bellator card near the end of the year? I don't know if he wants, I don't know, I don't know. He had said something in the run-up to, I think he told Fight Hub TV, Tyron did,

that, you know, he just wasn't feeling MMA by the time he lost those four, and he was trying to train, and he was trying to, like, will himself through, but he just really couldn't. And the results speak for themselves. Plus, he was fighting really good fighters. He wasn't fighting chumps. I don't know if he goes back to MMA. I really don't. And if he beats Jake,

does he have a couple of other big names that he could get big money off Showtime with? I don't know. I don't know. If he gets flatlined, which seems unlikely but possible, I tend to think he might hang it up. If he performs ably but loses,

that's where he gets kind of dicey. I think if he wins and looks good, I think he'll stay doing boxing, to be honest with you. I think the training's a little bit easier on him. And again, not easy, but in terms of injury load, it's easier. And the money is sick, at least in this particular case for him. So I tend to think that's probably more of a direction he'll go. All right, let's call it a day here. I appreciate everybody who tuned in. Thumbs up on the video. Hit subscribe.

And yeah, I would like to do this more at a regular time next Thursday. But for now, next Thursday, by the way, is my birthday. So we'll do one on my birthday. How about that? Until then, thank you guys so much for watching. You want to reach me, email me, lukethomasnews at gmail.com. And until next time, stay frosty.