MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - UFC 241, Diaz-Pettis, Joshua-Ruiz II Negotiations, Shevchenko | MORNING KOMBAT | Ep. 6 | BELOW THE BELT

Episode Date: August 13, 2019

Today's episode of Morning Kombat with Luke Thomas and Brian Campbell includes UFC 241, Diaz-Pettis, Joshua-Ruiz, Shevchenko, and more. MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL, Showtime's first live digital series, spotlights the weekend’s biggest news from the world of combat sports. MORNING KOMBAT airs live every Monday at 12 PM ET / 9 AM PT. #BelowTheBelt #MorningKombat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Reveille, Reveille, Donks! It is Monday, August 12th, 2019 and this is Morning Combat. My name is Luke Thomas, I am the host of this program alongside my lovely Vanna White-esque co-host, Brian Campbell. Hashtag fired the hell up. Let's do this. Hey, I brought this in for you today. Fetus, bro. Oh, God. Look at that. Fetus. Huh? Got this when they were on tour.

They're going to be on the Monsters of Murder tour with the statutory boys and rough sex. I mean, seriously. Actually, rough prison sex is a real song. All right. All right, we've got a lot to get to from the weekend. There was, let's see, UFC Uruguay, Uruguay, however you want to pronounce it. UFC 241 is coming up. I love that you threw out the however you want to pronounce it.

We had a big debate on my radio show about it. You can go whatever direction you want to go. Plus, we've got some boxing stuff, some odds and ends. Not a moment to waste. So let's get right into it. So first up, UFC Uruguay, Uruguay, however you want to say it. There was a main event. I'm told there was a main event, Brian.

Valentina Shevchenko technically defended her title against Liz Karmush. She wins. There was really not much controversy in terms of who was the winner when it was over, but oh my god, Brian, this was, let's just call it what it was, terrible. So terrible,

in fact, it's up there, in my judgment, with worst UFC title fight of all time. Now, I'm not declaring it number one for a couple of reasons. There are some fights that were objectively just also either as bad, if not worse. Miletic versus Pettinieros was bad. That's bad. Let's see, you could do the third fight between Orlovsky and Sylvia. That one just didn't work out. So there's a bunch of other ones you could pick.

And I'll say this in the defense of this fight. They didn't put it at the top of a pay-per-view where you had to really pay attention. They put it in the bottom of South America. They put it behind a paywall. They said, if you want to watch, watch. If you don't, don't. So in that sense, you don't feel like you got scammed out of pay-per-view dollars. On the other hand, just objectively speaking, you thought it was an okay

fight. We thought it was an okay fight because you're like, well, Karmush had fought her before and it's a bit of a rematch story. And yeah, maybe they're just trying to make cards that wasn't on the top of it, but okay, Karmush is talented and so is Shevchenko. But in the end, I don't understand Karmush's game plan. Granted, I'm not a pro fighter, so I'm saying I literally don't understand. But when I'm seeing pro Muay Thai coaches on Twitter also saying that they don't understand, I can't be alone in thinking what, like, I get that she defensively did enough to not put herself in super harm's way. She never got out of first gear offensively. What was that?

It comes down to intention to me. Like, this weekend I went to the barbershop. I didn't intentionally hope to come out of there looking like Timothy McVeigh. I thought the last three or four haircuts I got would speak to what I want, but I didn't intentionally say, don't give me the military cut. I come out looking like... High and tight.

They're like, what are you, an ex-Marine? I'm like, no, there's no such thing. Here's the point, though. There was no intention from Karmush to try to win that fight, to try to win the title. So her afterwards, to say things like, I'm here for for a trilogy i think i can come back a third time and take this like it's like what are you talking about it's so if you want to go who do you put the blame on here's the thing valentina shevchenko is best as a counter striker when you get somebody like jessica i was willing to go for broke and run into traffic you're going to get spectacular moments like that i don't fully put the blame on her because after the first couple rounds where she

really felt out, Karmush, she did try to win the fight. I'm talking about Shevchenko. She walked her forward with combinations. She dropped her with a spinning back fist. She slammed her to the ground. She attempted some things. At some point, though, they both sort of entered into what Teddy Atlas likes to call that silent contract, which is

you sort of draw a line here, I draw a line here. If neither of us go over it, you won't knock me out, and I won't give you a reason to knock me out, and we'll go to the finish. I think Shevchenko tried a little bit harder, but here's the deal. She had more to protect in the end. Right, right. She's protecting a title. She's protecting, obviously, her status.

And I'll put a little bit, just a little bit of the blame on the matchmakers. Not a lot, because they're doing their job. But if you have a counter-striker versus someone who I think more recently has been to a lot of decisions and doesn't necessarily push the fight super hard, you had to expect not saying you had to know this was coming,

you had to at least expect it as a possibility. So again, I'm not super blaming them. The one thing I would say though is like, okay, Karmouch lost and then was like, I'd be up for a trilogy. Well, I don't think Sol on Earth is other than her. Here's the other part about it, though. Shevchenko did what she had to do to retain her title. Fine.

She didn't take any hearty damage. Fine. All that stuff is what you're supposed to be doing in the fight game. However, if you wanted to create energy and interest around a third fight with Amanda Nunes, this was not the way to do it. She didn't get any, not only did she not get closer to a third fight with Nunes, she got a lot further away, and you would have thought with the absence of Cyborg,

this is your chance. Go in there, put the stamp on her, she didn't. They get to the title level, and they realize that this is the prize I'm protecting. If I protect this title, I'm getting bigger paydays every time out, no matter who I fight. So obviously she still wants that Nunes fight,

but she didn't expect to come back this soon. UFC gave her that opportunity with this fight, headlined this card. She took it in the end. Does she deserve a little bit of blame? Sure, for sure. But Karmush deserves the majority of it. And the real question is what you started out with. How bad is this fight actually historically?

I think it's worse than, let's say, Tyron Woodley, Stephen Thompson 2, which actually had a little bit of chess magic in there if you're a total nerd. If you're on your end of the Professor Salt-N-Pepa scale, I thought it was maybe even better though than like Anderson Silva, Talis Leitis, Anderson Silva, Damian Maia. Let's not forget how awful those were. Those were bad. Anderson Silva, Patrick Cote, but that ended kind of early with a tragic injury. But if we're going to talk about bad title fights, it's nowhere remotely close to the worst title fight in UFC history,

which is also the first title fight in UFC history, and some people don't realize was a title fight. UFC 5, the rematch. Hoist Gracie, Ken Shamrock for the first UFC super fight championship. And I bring that up not to sound hip and hipster and cool. I bring it up because I'm still hurting from that fight. 36 minutes and 6 second draw. No action whatsoever. I had a big pay-per-view party at my house. I had the illegal black

box. Had people over that hadn't seen this before. Sold them on the no rules. Sold them on, what's the dude's name who punched Joe Son in the balls about 80 times. Keith Hackney. Sold them on all that great stuff. And we got two guys in underwear and one in a gi kind of laying around and rolling for 36 minutes. That's the worst title

fight. That's the womp womp in UFC history. So then this would easily be the worst women's title fight in UFC history. I don't know. What would be worse? Nothing comes immediately to mind. I can think of a bunch of... Nunez-Pennington wasn't great, but at least, you know, there was a chance. There was a finish in the fifth.

There was a finish in the fifth. But look, again, Shevchenko at least tried. She got to a certain point where she said, I'm not going to finish her. Again, a smidgen of blame on the matchmakers, but they're mostly doing their job. Some blame on Shevchenko, but again, mostly doing her job. Karmush, I don't know what she was thinking. I really don't. And again, at 35 years of age, are you really going to, this is your second weight class,

are you really going to go that way in pursuit of a title? Okay, that would probably be your last one as far as the UFC is concerned. So that sucked. It was not great now there's another part to this though the co-main event it actually was vicente luque taking on uh mike perry mike perry's face getting rearranged let me ask you first have you ever seen a worse broken nose no that's the worst from a nose category i think it's in the discussion of one of the worst things to go back and watch so one thing that MMA has given us that even boxing really does, boxing will give you a

loose air once in a while, but MMA gives us this extra... Or the Hasim Rahman area. Right, or the things, MMA gives us this extra level of sort of, it all fits under the category of MMA pornography, right? We all have different fetishes. My fetish is to see old guys with names get in there in fights when maybe they shouldn't be licensed. That's my style.

Some people get off on this, and I just don't get it. They get off on the grotesquely broken arm that's just hanging there or the Anderson Silva check kick where his leg flies off in the other direction. This was insanely gross. This was up there with Cyborg Santos in the hole in the forehead. I don't ever want to see this again. I don't need 15 replays. I don't need gifs or gifs on Twitter. I don't need anything. Get me away from this. He was breathing in and breathing out in two different directions. It was pretty disgusting. It looked like he had been launched through the windshield of a car, right?

Where he had cuts all over his face from going through the glass and then landing and getting road rash in his face, quite literally rearranged. I've seen a, I think maybe I've seen a worse broken nose in person from a car crash, but this is the only thing in comparison. It wasn't just like off.

It was shifted over and into his eye almost. I think the nose was gone. I don't even understand what I was seeing on his face. It was broken and then pushed completely out of position. He went on surgery in Montevideo. Okay, great. I saw Mike Bond. I love Mike.

But Mike was like, he's expected to make a full recovery. Yeah, if he never fights again. In other words, I just had no surgery, but by the way, something significantly more minor of all the operations I've ever had, the recovery on that was the worst. That was awful. It was truly awful to think that like, A, how much suffering he's going to still go through. And then B, that the integrity and constitution of the nose is going to be held up forever? Does anyone actually believe that? I don't believe that. Now, the bigger question is, did he get robbed? I don't know how people can still keep doing this, Brian Campbell.

Quickly, quickly, how'd you score it? We're in a hurry? Yes. These dogs are in my ear. I love how we made the people in your ear the biggest heel of the show. I know, they're villains. How did you score it? I thought it was 2-1, Luque.

I did not have a problem with that at all. I'm going to say this once. I'm going to say it one more time. Okay. Probably 10 more times. 50 more times. 100 more times. A reasonably close fight that ends in a split decision is not a robbery.

Especially when you have the potential to do a 10-8 score like you had in that third round. You just felt the damage and the fact that he turned into Kerry, basically, with blood just flowing all over him. It was absolutely disgusting. But how on brand, though, is it for Mike Perry in the end? For this absolute gangster guy to come out here and bleed everywhere, has his nose going eight different directions, have a chance to win this fight, and then give you the social media pictures afterwards with the middle fingers.

And folks, most of the questions I've received were, what's next for Mike Perry? Very few for Vicente Luque, which is, i think in the end he'll be taken care of because he's done so well such a moral victory for my church should not tap how do you not tap in that more in the final minute of that third round with his face literally rearranged pouring blood like that it is an incredible display of human grit he did get the bonus but that bonus needs to be quadrupled let me ask you this we'll move on to the next topic. Forget about all the circumstances. If I showed you a picture of that nose and I said, okay, independent of anything else, how much would it cost for me to do this to you right now? I've had unlimited budget. Not unlimited, but pretty unlimited. I don't get

down like that. There's no price. People are always like, you know. $10 million cash, you wouldn't do it? You wouldn't eat a shit sandwich for a million? No. Because I have integrity. Okay. Ten million dollars cash you wouldn't do it? I wouldn't do it. Okay. He'll do it for probably what? $150,000 before taxes? He might do it for a gas station hot dog. In the end that's what it will amount to. These guys, I'm going to say it again, they are severely

underpaid. Severely underpaid. Alright. Last thing on UFC Uruguay. Which prospect impressed you more? And the heavyweight same finish, by the way. Head and arm triangles. I was going to show them today where you had no time. Okay, so Cyril Gane or Gane. I've seen it with the accent, without the accent.

However you want to pronounce it. He looked tremendous and gets the finish. And then on the other side you had Adolfo Vieira. Couple of early stumbles, but an absolutely textbook Adolfo Vieira finish. Who impressed you moreumbles, but an absolutely textbook Adolfo Vieira finish. Who impressed you more in the UFC debut? I think more Cyril Gane, or Gunn, welcome to the Gunn show, because it was more dominant. And he had a decent, I mean, they both had pressure on themselves to come in there with

the name and really prove themselves. I don't know. He just sort of was systematic in the way that he moved, in the athleticism and the movements and the way that he set up that finish. I was very impressed by that. I'm always impressed when somebody with big muscles can squeeze the life out of somebody with a head and arm choke like that. And I think in the end, he made more of a statement to me that he, and you could speak

to that being heavyweight, being a narrower pool. He made more of a statement to me that he's ready for the big time, that he's ready for big things where Adolfo showed you, certainly he's got his body as Wonderland. I mean, there's muscles behind muscles there, but it's still a longer way to evolve from being a fantastic ground artist to being a complete mixed martial artist. Yeah, he's got some work to do. I'm going to say, though, that the finish of Vieira was way more impressive. They had the exact same finish.

If you look at, here's a little quick one for Cyril's finish, because I'm not sure how to pronounce his last name. If you look at the head and arm triangle when he locks it up, actually he had it like this. Go back and pay attention. His elbow, his far side elbow is off the ground, which means he's trying to he-man it. Go look at the effortless way in which he just finds himself, Vieira, into the

position, has the full triangle down. Hands, elbow, and then the head. The whole triangle's in place. Creates a much more stable structure. And, by the full triangle down. Hands, elbow, and then the head. The whole triangle's in place. Creates a much more stable structure. And, by the way, submitted another black belt. Although, I suppose, in the case of Sillars, he submitted a good... Sorry, I was distracted by the plumber's crack on Pessoa there.

I don't think I've ever seen that. He kind of looks like the love child of Cabbage and Betch Cohea. He looks good getting off the bus there, old Cyril does. In any event, either way, you can't go wrong. Some strong competitors, I thought, from both sides. Quickly, you want to say something about Tisha Torres?

Yeah, four losses in a row. This is bad. This is now, make that decision of, should I still be going in this direction for a career? Something was interesting. On the broadcast, they said, her problem coming in, she'd figured it out. She's too respectful of her opponents. Did you see the quotes?

Who did defeat her? I forgot her name at this moment. I didn't watch that fight. I don't know. She looked great in doing so. Great for us MMA fans here. But the quotes afterwards was that Tisha respected me too much. I could have knocked her out if I wanted to.

Interesting. That's a large statement at where Tisha Torre is right now as a professional. 4-0. Always seemed to have warning track power, always was a great athlete, was able to be in there and look like an elite fighter, but didn't have that extra gear to get over the top. And as you age, that only gets worse, which is why somebody like Claudia Gadelha has so focused on sort of trying to round out her game at this sort of critical turning point age in her career. For Tisha, Rocky's back in her life. That's

great news probably for her personal life. For her professional life, though, I'm not telling her to finish, but where are you going to go from here? Well, this is also kind of interesting, too, because the previous opponents she had lost to were all pretty good, including the next title challenger, Wei Li Zhang. That I do know. And you could say, well, she was losing to really good opponents, right?

She was losing to title contenders or title holders. You're like, okay, fine. And now you're in a situation where you're in deep South America behind a paywall. It reminds me of I don't think the comparison is quite fair. I'm going to say this out loud. It's not quite fair, but you get a little

bit of a vibe of, here's Rashad Evans in Mexico City fighting, was it Dan Kelly or Sam Alvey? One of the two. And you're like, well, it feels a little bit like that. It's a little too early, but it Dan Kelly or Sam Alvey, one of the two, and you're like, well, it feels a little bit like that. It's a little too early, but it feels like that. But here's the thing.

There was no impulse in her to go for the win. And when you fight like that, you're not only not going to win, eventually you're going to get yourself knocked out consistently. All right. So then it takes us now to our boxing considerations. We're going to circle back to MMA because it is UFC 241 Fight Week. I'm very excited. Very excited.

Let's talk about Anthony Joshua and Andy Ruiz rematching. First of all, it's going to be in Saudi Arabia, number one. Number two, they're calling it Clash of the Dunes. Whoever the moron is that came up with that name, fire this loser immediately. Dunes don't even clash. What kind of thing is this? Here comes the juice from my computer. That's not a thing.

It doesn't exist. Here comes the buffalo from my light bulbs. Sorry, you don't get buffalo from light bulbs. So whoever the clown is that came up with that, fire this loser. Okay, that being said, let's assess the situation here for just a minute. Why are they fighting, of all places, Brian Campbell, in Saudi Arabia? This is so... I want to use the word sad.

Because it's so blatant why they're doing this. Why does anybody go, why did WWE recently sign that 10-year deal with Saudi Arabia despite political concerns and sort of culture contrasts that sort of contradict the things that WWE's tried to put forward? The guy who runs the country murdered a Washington Post journalist. Not just that, the idea that women

can't compete on those shows when WWE's in the midst of this female revolution. So it just makes you look bad because you're doing it for the money. This seems to be the case right now. And this is a major fail for seemingly everyone involved. Here's why. Why is this a fail for DAZN? What's DAZN trying to do right now? Trying to splash the market to get subscriptions, to get people to further put the image in your head that they're killing the pay-per-view business, that you shouldn't have to pay $70, $80 for a fight.

You should pay your monthly $9.99, whatever you're paying, and that's fine, and you should get it. DAZN certainly thought the second half of this year would give them Wilder Joshua, which obviously didn't happen, but at the very least, Triple G Canelo III, which is now not happening, but at the very least, Joshua Ruiz II, which is still happening, but what would that be? That's their last tentpole thing to grab onto to get people to have to see it and to have to subscribe.

And what are they doing? Eddie Hearn, Matchroom Sport, the promoter of Joshua, signed this deal to get all the money, but they're putting it on in the Joshua, signed this deal to get all the money, but they're putting it on in the afternoon, head-to-head with the SEC championship game in a really inopportune time when if you want to draw attention to a fight, especially a fight of this magnitude, you have two options here of what they should have done. Number one, go back to the U.S. First one was in Madison Square Garden. It was a big deal.

How about going to Cowboy Stadium? How about pumping that stadium full of Mexican-American fans to back the first Mexican heavyweight champion, Andy Ruiz, and creating a spectacle, put it on at traditional times, 11 Eastern on Saturday night, that people can watch it in this country. Or go to England, where Anthony Joshua regularly fights in front of 80,000 and 90,000 people in soccer stadiums, and give him the comfort, the benefit of the doubt.

You could argue this would be one of the biggest fights, if not the biggest, in English boxing history. And they take boxing very serious. Karl Frotch against George Groves in the States, decent series of two fights, not that big a deal. In England, 80,000 sellouts at Wembley Stadium, a giant ordeal. This fight would have been massive, and we're at a point right now for AJ as a brand, as a guy who was the face of the heavyweight division, the future face of boxing. He not only lost that fight, but if you hear the whispers, you hear the reports coming out, he was knocked out in sparring a couple weeks before.

Maybe shouldn't have been medically cleared. They push forward with the fight anyway. He goes in there, not in the right head, gets knocked out again. maybe shouldn't have been medically cleared. They push forward with the fight anyway. He goes in there, not in the right head, gets knocked out again. I don't know if you saw afterwards his dad was basically attacking Eddie Hearn after the fight. Wouldn't you want that back in England with 90,000 people supporting him to rebuild him back up, build up his image, build up his ego, get him back there and get him that victory? Now we're going to Saudi Arabia in a 12,000 seat outdoor stadium.

Not even, I think Mike Coppinger reported 7,000. So the promoter can cash in and we're going to put it on a completely inopportune time in the afternoon up against serious competition for American sports. What the hell's going on here? Like this is now taking an event with how hot heavyweight boxing is right now and making it a crossover thing you had to see. That first fight got to people because of the image of a fat man knocking out the muscled heavyweight champion of the world. It got to people.

It crossed over. Now you're basically kind of taking it away from them. You're going, what am I going to watch? College football, the most important game of the year or that? If you're AJ, how do you agree to this? And I know Andrew Ruiz has been making some headlines. He's sort of arguing, I need to get paid more if this is going to Saudi Arabia. I'm sorry, Andy, you have no leverage.

This is what happens when you face the champion. You sign a deal that says, we're going to do the rematch and the price is set. He's going to make $9 million. It's a great payday. You're not going to argue for more. I don't get outside of the obvious money grab why they're doing this. And it also just looks bad. Why is UFC the only adult in the room?

Remember when they pulled out of Saudi Arabia a couple months ago? Remember that in March? Well, the Endeavor guys did, but they're going back to UAE, which has, I believe, their Abu Dhabi anyway. They're having their own issues. It seems fairly shameless, and it seems like your biggest asset, if you're the zone, now they don't have Anthony Joshua exclusively under contract

like they do Canelo Alvarez, but he's arguably their second biggest asset, if you're the zone, now they don't have Anthony Joshua exclusively under contract like they do Canelo Alvarez. But he's arguably their second biggest asset besides Canelo. Don't you want to protect this guy? Yeah. I mean, what happened to the whole thing of let's make Joshua a big deal in the United States? I mean, one fight, the one that didn't go well, and now you're abandoning it. Or at least for the foreseeable future, it's not coming back. We don't know what the plan is with that.

So this whole idea of turning him into some kind of again to your point you can put it in the UK That's great. But this is supposed to be the next big heavyweight Hope this was supposed to be his introduction to the Big Apple They were gonna rebuild off of that and now you're a band and I would have understood if they had gone back to the UK For the reasons aforementioned. I'm just sort of pointing out here There's no overture whatsoever to the US market on this one other than oh by the way If you're subscribing catch catch it at, what, 3 in the afternoon like you would get Klitschko

at 4 p.m. or so. And again, HBO would air those, but it wasn't like a full throated effort. Other story, other reason for those stories. Here's the one that sort of gets to me. It's like, you've got UFC going to Abu Dhabi. You've got this fight going on. You've got

WWE doing their issues with the Saudi government. And I saw John Nash on Twitter make a point. He was like, look, dude, people who make money off CTE don't care about human rights. You've even got the next World Cup, which people have to ask themselves very clearly if that's something they're going to support. I don't know if you follow the story at all. First of all, there's some suggestions that the World Cup ended up in 2022 in Qatar. Qatar, yeah. Qatar, yes. I say Qatar

for the donks. But it's like Uruguay. We try to pronounce things on this show. I used to live in Qatar. No need, my friend. Grew up in Doha. Okay. Point being is this. They got me on my track now, goddammit. The point being is, when you look at the human rights abuses,

these people don't, they don't invest in these considerations the same way. And so it asks you, like, well, what is the right answer in this modern economy? Do you want to go and try to open up these parts of the world by introducing them to westernized forms of entertainment and sensibilities. I can buy that. On the other hand, I'm always sort of struck by what John McEnroe did. John McEnroe, at the height of apartheid in South Africa, was offered, and this is back

in the 80s or so, was offered a million dollars at the time, which at the time was an extraordinary amount of money, to go compete for, I think it was even an exhibition match. And he said no. Yeah, he ain't going to play Sun City, right? So here's the thing. It's like, on the one hand, you know, I had Israel Adesanya on my show because he just did a tour through Saudi Arabia, and I asked him this very same thing. And he takes the former view, which is, look, man, these parts of the world are not going

to open if you don't get in there and open them up. But do we really think that's what Eddie Hearn is doing, is some, like, mission for democracy? No, it's a money grab. And look, I don't mind stealing bread from the mouth of decadence. Come on, come on, come on. All right, but here's the point. I'm not even here to argue the we shouldn't go to Saudi Arabia because this and that. Why? It's a perfectly reasonable consideration.

I'm here more to argue why are you doing this if you're disowned when you're trying to hit a certain market? I mean, they had a press conference this morning without the fighters. It was Eddie Hearn and a representative from Saudi Arabia. Jake Donovan, a boxing writer on Twitter, basically said it looked like a timeshare presentation. It just looks bad. It looks ultimately shameless. And I think you're watering down and moving from an opportunity to continue this heavyweight momentum. Look, the sport gets crossover fans through the heavyweight division.

It's always been the gateway drug. And now you're just kind of cashing in. It's typical boxing. Okay. Taking away a piece of the pie rather than having the potential to share it with everyone and make the whole sport great.

Okay, but I don't want to diminish this part of the conversation about the moral implications here. And again, people think because the answers are difficult that therefore not worth pursuing. The most important questions in life don't have simple answers. The most important questions in life actually have really difficult ones, and they're worth trying to work through.

The point I was trying to make about Qatar was this. The stadiums required for the World Cup in 2022 could only be built on what is basically the modern equivalent of slavery, and dozens, dozens of imported workers from South Asian countries have died trying to make these stadiums if you watch the World Cup of 2022 and many of us probably will I don't know how I feel about it you're watching things that like I mean the amount of human suffering that had to go in to make that possible is extraordinary and so dude these questions are relevant these questions are relevant as a consumer

what role do you play in facilitating this? And also, you know this too, because this is true on the MMA side of things. Forget just boxing for a moment. Combat sports, and I would include in this particular case pro wrestling, they attract a certain kind of person, often normal. They also attract another kind of person who has a real fluid, if not sometimes bankrupt, morality. Yeah, I was really going to question your often normal comments. Hold on.

There are normal people, and the normal ones get co-opted all the time. And I don't know when you're supposed to draw the line. Maybe this actually isn't the one where you're supposed to draw the line. I'm not suggesting that it is, but rather, I don't think that the predominant concern here is about DAZN. To me, the predominant concern here is, is this something we should be supporting? Yeah, and if you're a fan and or journalist and you are excited about the potential of going to this fight, are you going to go no?

I don't know. By the way, this is a legitimate question. If you're a female journalist, are you allowed to go cover this thing? No. So there's much deeper hooks to this and branches. You're right in terms of the social justice of it. But look, if you're Anthony Joshua, again. I wish you wouldn't use that term.

It's not a social justice issue. It's a basic decency issue. It's a basic decency issue. That's a politically loaded term that's going to steer the conversation in the wrong direction. It's a question of what kind of thing are you going to tolerate and be a part of. That's it. Right? Pretty fair, I think.

Anyway, they're going to do it. They're going to make a boatload of cash. And we're probably going to watch because we're losers. Okay, let's get back to the UFC if we can for just a second. UFC 241, Brian, is days away. I'm very excited about it. Pay-per-view is back in our lives. And let's start with a fight that has been i think i would say under

the radar up until this week a little bit the return of nate diaz taking on anthony pence we talked about it last week but then they reframed the conversation brian on saturday's show they're pitching it like it's a diaz brother versus the guy on the wheaties box okay that's now that's now in fairness to the UFC, those are kind of words from Diaz. Not kind of. Those are words from Diaz's own mouth. I just find it funny,

because it is an interesting contrast to draw. It's a hell of a fight. But also, Diaz has always kind of wanted to be the hero, and keeps being presented, if not the villain, certainly the iconoclast to a degree. And it's like, wow, they just keep marketing this guy in a way he doesn't want to be seen. It's still pretty effective.

I wonder what you made of it. No, it was great. You said it was a change. It's the first time this fight's really been marketed since it's been announced. It was almost as if... With a clear shape. Yeah, it was almost as if it was certainly hot on the underground levels from fans that couldn't wait for it from a corporate

presentation and it hasn't been pushed out there. It's almost oddly ironic because it's got this old narrative of the guy in the Wheaties box, but that may be the last time Nate Diaz was a consistent, regular fighter looking to stay active and be part of title contentions. I mean, it really feels like it's been that long, but I love it.

I love that when this fight was announced, they both sort of, in their first initial interviews, offered that, I care about this fight a lot more than you people realize. I really want to beat that other guy. I really seem to have personal issues. It kind of has a retro feel to it, even if this storyline feels a little bit dated, but I want them both in there with that type of focus and that type of mentality. It's interesting. I can't figure out whether this fight, and maybe you can tell me, is just what it is. It's just two really good personalities that we love and exciting fight styles and, hey, let's meet them together right in here. Or if this fight actually has super big importance as to where the winner will go from here.

I think it's, well, it's a little bit of both, right? Let's say there were no implications for the division. Would you in your mind? But you mean the division. It's almost like they're in two different divisions at the same time. Hence the brilliance of the whole call, right? Let's just be lightweights masquerading as welterweights so we can cash in whichever way the wind blows in our favor. It's smart, actually.

I don't mind it at all. But, okay, I mean, if you had to ask yourself, is that going to be an action fight? I mean, you would have a hard time presenting it as anything other than that. But is it an attraction, or is it a super important fight that fits into the narrative of both divisions? So I think if, let's examine here. Let's say Pettis wins. Pettis wins in a way that is, I'm not saying they have to win by stoppage,

but dominant. Let's call it dominant. Right? So now he moves up to welterweight. He beats Wonderboy Thompson, finishes him, and then say he would beat Nate Diaz. This would certainly put him in, I would think, the catbird seat, right, at welterweight he beats wonderboy thompson finishes him and then say he would beat uh nate diaz this would certainly put him in i would think the catbird seat right at welterweight he would be in

an enormously strong negotiating position he would be have boosted his brand appeal this would be the guy who was in the weedies box who maybe he did have a bit of a hard time in his career kind of changed some things up i went over this and dissected he's a little bit more he's always been a bit of a creative risk taker but but I think he's much more now of like, I'm going to take that big shot and not a lot of in between. I'm going to take that big punch if it doesn't land. I might fade a little bit. He's a little bit like riskier with the

all-in on this shot or that shot. He became Robbie Lawler. A little bit. A little bit like that, but he's still beating good guys. In fact, if he already beat Thompson and he beats Diaz, I'm not saying he gets back to that level where he was on the Wheaties box again. Like, let's put him right back on there. But I would say it would be a recapturing of something that I think people now I thought was lost, but maybe gone forever.

He gets all of that back. In the case of Diaz, if he wins, dude, he's cooking with gas. Because the last two guys he fought were the same guy, Conor McGregor. Before that, Michael Johnson. Long time ago. I said two guys. Well, two fights, but, you know, one guy. Anyway, you get the idea. So it's a Michael Johnson, long time ago. I said two guys, well, two fights, but, you know, one guy. Anyway, you get the idea.

So it's a bit of a long time ago. This would be the first guy he beat since fighting Conor McGregor, right? Think about that for a second. So it would lead to a question of where he would go from there. Now, that's where it gets kind of interesting. That's what I was going to say. What were you going to say? It comes down to basically our interest in this fight.

We love Anthony Pettis. But our real interest in this fight is the return of Nate Diaz. And the idea of if he wins this, which road is the UFC going to allow him to take? Is this just let's get Nate Diaz back in there and re-shine up his brand and then prep him up for crossover monster star through riding with Conor through those two fights, which are what, like two and four in terms of the biggest pay-per-views in UFC history and done nothing with him? If Nate wins, again, is he just an attraction that UFC still doesn't know what they have? Or you could make just as big of a case that he becomes an instant title contender in both divisions or that he becomes Tony Ferguson's consolation prize if Conor slides in there and gets the

winner of Dustin and Habib. So there's too many variables to know. Partly, we're going to have to see how Nate wants to lead this. In fact, dude, look how this fight was made. Duke Rufus told me it was Nate's people who called up Pettis' people and said, you want that smoke? They said, we want that smoke. Took that smoke to the UFC.

UFC signed off on it. My only point being is Diaz is a guy who likes to call his own shots with a smart team behind him. They might be able to get on the mic afterwards and say, we want X or Y. Maybe it's Tony. Maybe it's Conor. Maybe it's a title shot. I don't know.

I don't know. We're going to have to see how that all goes. But I'm not too concerned. I think if he wins, I'm not going to say carte blanche, but I'm going to say anything he can effectively sell. See, I can't believe that the UFC would give him that type of leeway based on the recent history and how Dana White handles and talks about it.

This is a thing that they'll deny. I know it is true. They offered him a title fight at 170 with Tyron Woodley. That is absolutely true. What do you think in your heart of hearts happened? Nate turned a tone? Or was it not enough money? I know exactly what happened. They offered X for money. Nate asked for 2X. They told Nate to go pound sand. That's exactly what happened.

That is a fact. Pound it or smoke it. Whatever's easier. That's what happened. So he didn't say no. He just said, if I'm going to fight this on these terms, you're going to pay me. UFC said, we're not. All right.

Well, what I love most about this matchup, outside of this celebrity returning factor and all that, we get these fighters back. We get Nate Diaz back. How do you have any confidence in what each guy's going to look like? Because certainly there's the three-year gap mixed with the sort of mercurial nature of the Diaz's where at any point on the highest level sometimes they can sort of not mail in but give you a weird performance. And then Pettis, I can't figure out, Luke,

if he was better than we thought against Tony Ferguson and almost won that fight and almost had a hard luck loss, or it's a fool's gold win against Thompson because he lost basically every second of that fight and then comes through with the monster finish at the end. So I don't know how... Okay, so I went back and I watched the Tony Ferguson fight. We went over it on Dissected.

He had an interesting first round, and he dropped Tony in the first... Oh, sorry, the beginning of the second. But if you just... And I'm not saying he dropped him because it's nothing, but I'm just saying, if you just watch the fight generally, Tony took over that fight with about two minutes in, and then never really looked back, other than getting the drop,

which he pushed through. In other words, I'm just saying, Tony mows through most fighters at 155 in about two rounds. Look at Cowboy Cerrone, same kind of thing. I would say this, I think this is the way to look at it. Diaz coming into the Michael Johnson fight.

I went back and I watched that as well. He'd been off over 370 days. And the narrative in that fight was, wow, look at how refreshed Nate Diaz looks. Look at how great he looks. The time off did him good. I wonder if the time off will do him good. It's been much longer than 370 days this time around. So maybe it was too long.

We're going to have to see. Here's the part with Pettis. I mentioned he's a little bit more, he's always been creative and a risk taker. Now much more so. Here's the other part I don't think people pay attention to. He's taken a lot of damage in his career. To the part where it's just like things like his hands break,

he separated his rib against Pettis, stuff like that, all the cuts. But also he's taken a lot of abuse. He now, in his striking stats, if you look at them, he gets hit more than he lands per minute. That is crazy. This could end up being, in some ways, kind of a perfect matchup for Nate to come back to.

I think Nate and his team saw that Tony Ferguson fight and said, hmm, we can do something with that. All right, gun to your head if Nate wins. Does he get a lightweight title shot? Does he get Tony? Does he get Conor? Does he get Jorge Masvidal? Because we have a fun group of what I call

celebrity fighters. Guys that don't necessarily fit in the title contention ladder but could splash the pot at any point. I'm going to say he will look for a title shot based on some conversations I've had. But no one really knows. Now you bring up something. I'm going to put it back to you.

There is the Jorge Masvidal X factor out there. Diaz versus Masvidal, which, by the way, you could do at 155, but you don't need to. You can do it at 170. Okay. I have suggested this as a fight for people. People are like, he needs to fight Leon Edwards. Brian Campbell. No.

No, he does not. Please tell the people why that is one of the all-time worst suggestions I've ever heard. That's the worst default possibility for Masvidal because they have that connection. But we talked about it on the show a couple weeks ago. Edwards just didn't take advantage of his moment to sort of wave that flag and say, I'm on that level. I need to be in that matchup. You need to capitalize and cash in on what you have here in Jorge Masvidal.

And the big question is, where is he going to go? He did that scrum in Uruguay? Uruguay. Udegay in Uruguay? Uruguay. Udegay? Uruguay. Uruguay. You can say Uruguay. Sorry, in Uruguay.

And, you know, he called Leon Edwards a bitch. It was fun and games and all it was. But what he said, if you piece through the words, is UFC has presented him a sexy-looking lineup of potential fights. There's title opportunities and there's non-titles. And he says if it's not going to be a title matchup, which a lot of people are saying, Colby's saying the same thing, if you're not going to give me a title shot, then give me title shot money to make up for it. He's got to be talking about Conor

because Dana White's done that weird public dance where we know he come out at first and says Jorge and Conor will never happen, Jorge's too big, of course, that makes Conor McGregor get upset, he comes out and says, I'm not scared, I want to fight him, and now what, Dana kind of came back and said almost the other thing, they're setting it up, right? They have to be setting it up.

I can't believe. The reason this keeps coming up is because I keep getting pushback on this. And, okay, when I bring up my attitudes towards doping, I expect people to push back. They are brainwashed by 60 years of government propaganda. It takes time to unravel that. All right. However, this is one to me that seems like a bit of a no-brainer. It's like, fellas, this isn't just somebody who's been

in the UFC two years who's ranked eighth and doesn't want to fight number 11. This is a guy who has been in the trenches at two different weight classes and come up short on times where you could argue he shouldn't have in close split decisions. He finally, finally breaks through when you thought maybe he was never gonna. He gets to a spot most fighters will never get to, certainly that you thought he might not get to, and you want him to fight someone whose team

doesn't require him to do much media, who didn't take advantage of a viral moment, and has what I would call, look, he's a phenomenal talent. I covered him on Dissected. It's not that I don't have profound respect for the abilities of Leon Edwards, but as a public entity, his visibility with the casual fan base is nil. It is nil. You want Jorge Masvidal to fight that guy?

What kind of clown would ever recommend to Jorge Masvidal, that's a good idea for your career? And folks say, what's he supposed to do, sit out a year? Well, no, no one is suggesting it. And if it comes to it, I guess that that's the last choice, make it. But people fall out from injury all the time. Leon Edwards can fight Tyron Woodley, for crying out loud, who's still sitting at number one in the rankings for no good reason.

Or he can fight Nate Diaz. He can fight Nate Diaz if he wins. That's a perfectly good way this could go. He can fight Conor. Fighting Leon Edwards is the worst idea of all of them. If you were in the UFC matchmaking room and you're having this conversation about a potential Conor-Masvidal match, and you're saying, well, look, do we want Conor to take two losses in a row? And then somebody raises their hand and says, well, we could do it at welterweight or a catchweight where there's an excuse.

Do you have the confidence that Jorge would play ball and strike with Conor? That would almost keep him in it. Yeah. Yeah, an excuse. Do you have the confidence that Jorge would play ball and strike with Conor? That would almost keep him in it. Yeah. Yeah, I would. And the last thing about this, because in the back the villains are telling me to move on. Last thing about this. I don't, I would just overrule. I'm about to take my earpiece out and be like you know who runs this show? I run this show.

Alright. People would be like oh, it'd be an exciting fight. I'm sorry. Why would you think that? I'm not saying it would be a bad fight. It would be a very, very tactical technician's masterpiece because Jorge's very technical and good, and Leon's very technical and good. It ain't going to be Mike

Perry versus Vicente Luque. That's not how this fight would go. It would come down to the wire. It'd be like one guy winning a jiu-jitsu match by advantage. That's what everyone's clamoring for? Take that shit to another sucker, please. Okay. Wow.

I just can't believe that. How do I have to convince people about this? On your t-shirt here, Dying Fetus, what is the needle injecting? It's injecting the magic of the music in the earth, bro. If that was a child's skull, I would have shut the show down right now. I don't know how far you go with your metal hair. I go to where it gets good. You should try it sometime.

Alright, last but certainly not least in terms of our topics of the day here, Brian, another fight at UFC 241 that's important is Daniel Cormier taking on Stipe Miocic. I'll pitch to you this one. If he beats Stipe, Brian Campbell, how much closer does Daniel

Cormier get to becoming the best heavyweight of all time? And here's why I ask that. He would not have Stipe's record of winning the title and then defending it three times. This would only be his second defense, I believe, since winning. Nevertheless, to be as good as he was, take time away from the division, come back, beat the guy who had the three, then beat him

again for the second title defense, I don't know, it puts him pretty close. What would you say? Yeah, he'd be really damn close. And it would really make us examine what our standards are for this type of conversation. Because there's almost two conversations in one. There's accomplishments and there's the eye test. Accomplishments, it's probably Stipe.

You can argue it's Randy Couture having won it three times. You definitely can't argue it's Randy Couture. I think you can. You could argue Fedor. I think you can. He never was in the U.S. Well, okay, but I got it. I saidouture having won it three times. You definitely can't argue it's Randy Couture. I think you can. You can argue Fedor. I think you can. He never was in the U.S. Well, okay, but I got it. I said the greatest heavyweight of all time.

You can definitely argue Randy Couture. But there's the eye test factor. And right now the eye test is still telling me Cain Velasquez is the best heavyweight I've ever seen. Unfortunately had the back-breaking string of injuries, and we never really found that out. And this poses an interesting question in there. And right away when you see DC come back and beat Stipe the intelligent way that he did and didn't go five rounds in wrestling, he knocked him out, and we're suddenly going, damn, what would it have looked like if DC just stayed in heavyweight the whole time?

Like, what would he be right now? He would have to be slam dunked the greatest of all time. And then there's that cane factor in that question. So I ask you this, Luke. Is Daniel Cormier the folk hero? And by the way, I got a chance to be

a talking head on his E60 piece on Sunday that Ariel did. And fantastic work by the folks there. Need a little bit more Campbell in it, though, just between you and me.

I didn't watch it. But here's the deal. Great American folk hero. The career bridesmaid who finally broke through. But did he go down to 205 because he's the best friend ever? And I'm not doing this to call him out, but this is an interesting topic.

Or did he go down to 205 because he knew he was never going to beat Kane? That Kane was the equivalent of Kale Sanderson for him in college wrestling and Jon Jones for him in light heavyweight fighting? I don't think he did that at all. I think that he was part of a scenario where he had a choice to make. There was one person ahead of him in terms of tenure, that being Cain Velasquez. Cain Velasquez said, this guy can train at this facility. We all know the story. But basically what my argument is, is I think Cormier looked at the scenario and said, okay, I have a choice to make. I can go

somewhere else and I can compete at heavyweight. Or I can stay here and I have to compete in an unnatural division or something like that. Let's say not my peak division. But what I get to do is I get to preserve this harmony. That's what I get to do. I get to learn from the best. I get to train from the best. I get to keep my family here. All the things that I want to do, I have to make that weight class sacrifice.

But I don't have to do anything else. You have a hard time convincing me that he ran from Cain Velasquez into the arms of Jon Jones as this was some kind of a safer scenario for him. Did you hear those same whispers, though, that Cain would handle him at the gym? I mean, DC says it himself, but you never know, though. I've heard a lot of different scenarios. There should be some reason to believe that Cain might handle him, especially early. Cain had a much more of a head start in terms of that. So that wouldn't necessarily be all that surprising, but also it's a bit of a long game here too. Just because you can beat

someone early doesn't mean they don't catch up late. Let me ask you this. Had Kane in his comeback fight against Ngannou, which went disastrous before it really started, we never really got to know how good Kane was in this comeback. Let's say he had out-wrestled Ngannou for the three rounds and won that fight cleanly. 5.

That was a five round fight? Was that the main event? That was the main event, okay. Would we be banging the drum right now? Would we be forcing ourselves to bang the drum to have a Jon Jones, Rashad situation and have them finally fight to declare Kane and DC right now? Because we get to this point when we have two active guys who have a claim to the GOAT in that specific category, kind of like when Nunez and Cyborg just recently met. You sort of have to see them meet.

Because you're asking me, if DC beats Stipe a second time, can you make that case? No, I still have the eye test of what I've seen from Kane. And I'm not saying you necessarily solve that debate by seeing an old broken Kane get in there against DC and sever their friendship, but I'm sort of asking you, would we have been beating that drum right now to say, we need to find out who's the greatest heavyweight in history? We might be. It would be a different scenario. All I know is that Cormier has smartly played his situation for harmony, for long-term growth, took advantage of heavyweight when it was there.

And the other thing I would say is, you ask about the eye test, I don't know. Cormier meets the eye test pretty well for the most part. He does. And the part is about accomplishments. Well, yeah, you're not going to have as many accomplishments if you spent a huge chunk of your career not even in that weight class, right? So all the things he could have been doing at heavyweight, because yes, he did get accomplishments at light heavyweight, but let's say he never left. How many accolades would he have at heavyweight? Would it be so overwhelming at this point that we wouldn't be having this discussion? So, like, just by the process of subtraction of time, okay, he doesn't have as many title

defenses, but he wasn't even competing in the same space, so of course he can't. And he manhandled every heavyweight he faced. Right. It's not like, I mean, the only guy who ever really gave him the tough fights were Jones, obviously, and then Gustafsson. And he beat Gustafsson, so it's like, I don't know what to tell you all, folks.

What about this, though? You mentioned Fedor before and that's why I countered you and said maybe this should be a UFC-only discussion. I'm sort of still of the belief that Fedor is separate from this conversation because he is the greatest heavyweight of all time and is at that upper room table with the five greatest fighters of all time, regardless

of weight. Yeah, the issue is he kind of peaked around 2004. I mean, he had some good moments after that. So you're saying time will remove him from the equation the same way that time obviously removed Hoist Gracie when the sport evolved and removed Ronda Rousey as well. I don't think we're near that because he still competed in what is commonly known as the modern era. He had a modern skill set.

He wrote the blueprint on modern ground and pound, especially without elbows. Since then, it's been updated, but some of the early things you could do. So I don't think the eras are so far apart, and as they get further and further apart, the gradients between them get finer. So the difference between Ken Shamrock versus Hoyce and even Rousey versus

Karmush is enormous, but the difference between Rousey, Karmush, and Fedor, it's much, and Fedor versus, let's say, Krokop 2004, it's a little bit narrower. Although you could actually argue that those guys were even better, actually. I take that back a little bit. Not the best comparison. Suffice to say is that, look,

2004 MMA is not the same as 2019 MMA, so I think the gradients are finer. I still think that his overall body of work puts him in a position where top five all-time fighters I don't know, but the best heavyweight I've ever seen, probably, probably. I just

think Cormier, if he can just stay healthy and keep doing what he's been doing without significant drop-off at 40, which is a big task, it's like, well, maybe that conversation needs to change. Real quickly, last thing on this for Miocic. I got one more on you. Make it fast. Make it fast, because we've got to move on. All right, from the idea of legacy, when Cormier, who has never beaten Jon Jones,

moved up to heavyweight and beat Stipe, we all wrote basically the same thing, that this was DC's chance to cut the line and basically reach immortality without having to have beaten Jones, because he won titles in two divisions, and you could make cases of the two Jones losses that won, they threw out because it's a no contest, and the first, DC also believes Jones was dirty, whatever, it's a side conversation for another day. So it's almost as if DC entered that upper room, that table of the five or six best fighters ever.

Does he potentially still have a chance to lose that spot, though? Should he, let's say, lose to Stipe, or should he lose to Jon Jones in a trilogy? Can you lose what you've gained at this point? And I have that same question for Demetrius Johnson, who I thought got to a point where he reached that category, but if he's going to linger in one and do this sort of off-American TV, does he also fall out of that category? It's sort of the BJ Penn conversation in a different way,

which is if you've done all this, how sterling is that still after all the stuff that comes after? This is a much more narrower subset of success and failure, or at least certainly failure side. I would say I'd have to think about it more. I don't know. The only thing I'm certain of is that if he beats Stipe, the claim to best heavyweight of all time gets significantly better

because he would have beat the guy who had the most tile defenses twice. No questions asked at that point. Last thing, though. What if Miocic changes the script a little bit? What if he comes back and beats Cormier? So you're talking about the Cormier side. Well, hold on. Flip it a little bit because then you could say, well, I don't know if the first fight was a fluke.

I don't think it was a fluke. Then it makes the third fight very important, like historically legacy. And that becomes the fight for at least in the modern era of post 2010 the best heavyweight that we've seen of our lifetime i fully agree that's what it would be interesting all right we need to move on to the fan questions here uh as always we put them up on instagram i'm luke thomas news on instagram what is yours uh at instagram brian c campbell brian can't just be brian campbell no there's a lot of brian campbell you gotta you gotta all've got to make things hard.

What are those called? DMs from donks? DMs from the diggities. All right, so let's do this. Jerem 1010 says, Demetrius has spelled it wrong, is Valentina the next Demetrius Johnson? What do you think? No, no, no.

What do you think he means by that? He means Demetrius Johnson, despite having a string of very exciting victories during his flyweight title reign, became known for somebody who couldn't draw ratings, who was boring on the microphone, who was ultimately a stale champion, who wasn't as marketable as he was great in the cage. I think Valentina definitely needs people to come after her to bring out the best in her. But I think at the same time, in figurative and literal ways, she's

a little bit sexier. Well, you made her awkward in the room. You don't like midriff gun tats? I will say the gun tat is pretty cool. The gun tat's pretty cool. Alright, let's just move on, because I don't know how you top that. You've got to be able to counter that. Come on, you've got to give that to me.

MonkeyBase68 says, if you had a time machine, oh I wish I did, and could take a prime GSP and bring him into the current landscape of the UFC welterweight division, how does he fit in? Would his skill set combined with his gentlemanly demeanor still be sufficient to be a star in the current state of the entertainment era? We answered the former last week. Actually, if you bring a prime GSP into the modern welterweight division, I think he's your champion. All that goes to tell you is when you see people being like, oh, so-and-so was ahead

of their time, that's what they mean. George St. Pierre was in every way far ahead of his time. At his time, I would argue, I wouldn't call him his peers today, but he had the best crop of welterweights we have today. A prime GSP was better than them, too. He is that just transcendently good. Now, the interesting part is how would his gentlemanly thing fit in? The funny part is about this entertainment era, Brian, we think it's kind of new.

It's only new in its ubiquity, which is to say the UFC had asked him after Matt Hughes had reclaimed the title, I forget, or defended whatever the fight was when St. Pierre goes up there and says, I am not impressed by your performance. And everyone was like, oh shit. He was wearing jorts John Cena style. Yeah. Okay. So he didn't

want to do that. The UFC had kind of asked him to and at the time he was a bit of a company man. And he did. So there was all of this manufacturing of beef ahead of time. I actually feel like being as good as he was and as gentlemanly as he was, the two worked in concert. He was on-brand Canadian, friendly. He had an interesting accent. He was, again, transcendent as an athlete and just set a great example.

He was more beneficial to them at the time when they were trying to get mma regulated they were like look at our cleaned up athletes that's less relevant today but as someone you could take to sports center and put in front of if needed be charlie roe well charlie rose has actually had his own issue that's daniel um i'm just sort of pointing out someone you could put in front of the mainstream and he's the model of bushido yes you could do something what you're it he was martial arts not MMA you're asking in 2019 would he be in Dana White's crosshairs just from being too vanilla no he's asking would he what with his gentlemanly demeanor still be sufficient to be a star in the current state of the entertainment era it would be if he had the same level of dominance that he had back

then with the consecutive title wins the he became a foundational pay-per-view brand because you knew what you were going to get from him. And he would respect the sport and make you happy and clinically defeat the guy in front of him. Yeah, I believe Amanpour, by the way, has replaced Charlie Rose. Jesus Christ, I forgot that dude had his whole Me Too thing. Charlie Rose, you gross! All right, let's do this next one.

This is from, I think this is like an Irish name, Ocean, you gross. All right, let's do this next one. This is from, I think this is like an Irish name, Ocean, Ocean McCarthy. Do you think DC will and should adopt the same approach to this fight as he used in the first fight? I have thought about that a lot, actually. You know what's funny about that? It's like DC has the same strategy for every fight. Now, individual tactics and scenarios will change up a little bit, and the end game might be a little bit. Do I want to work from the back? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Single leg, high crotch, double. Those kinds of choices change. But dude, here's DC. He comes right out, and he gets right in your face, and he wants to push into you enough where he can either

get the takedown, or you just wilt from the overwhelming force of the waves crashing into the rocks again. I did a live chat on my own YouTube channel, and someone asked me, well, if you look at the stats, he was winning ahead of time before the finish. But that's a little bit deceptive. Yes, Stipe is obviously quite good, but the reason why that's deceptive is if you have an opponent and their objective, and you know that's the objective, is to get in your face and make you wilt, setting the tone early is extremely important. Pumping the jab, firing

shots at them, making them back up. You have to get them to respect it. So that early part of the fight with DC is in many ways the least representative in certain capacities. So we'll see how the second one goes, but I would be a little bit hesitant to look at that one and say, oh, for Stipe, it's a model of what he could do. And at the same time, for Cormier, the game plan doesn't change much. It's walk you down. I think the second fight's going to go the distance. And the reason why is I think what happens in a lot of rematches,

the guy who won figures out how to be a little bit safer, and the guy who lost figures out, I need to be better. I need to be a lot better. And I think Stipe's better than the performance he showed the first time around, and I think DC's going to go back and watch that fight over again like we have and kind of realize he got lit up a few times, and you really can't take those shots from somebody like Stipe Miocic. Yeah, but actually I asked him about that.

I go, who hits harder, Stipe Miocic or Anthony Johnson? He said Anthony Johnson hit harder. I believe that. Much harder. I believe that. He said Anthony Johnson would rattle his teeth. Anthony Johnson has rhinoceros teeth. It's just ridiculous. He's a super villain. He was a freaking welterweight. It's just ridiculous.

I saw him fight Kevin the Fire Burns, I believe, in DC. Or even, no, Charlie Brenneman. Do you agree with that? That DC has to be safer this time around? Yeah, I think that's right. Plus, it's going to be more of a chess match. I think wrestling will be a big factor. We had talked about Shevchenko, she's protecting something by virtue of being a title holder. He is the title holder, and

we don't know how many of these he's got left. No one ever wants an L, but you want to be very careful. If he loses to Stipe, he may never end up getting the Jon Jones fight, because you would think the promotion would want to go into a trilogy for that heavyweight title. Or that pushes him down to light heavyweight. It could go a couple of different ways because people would still pay to see it.

But point being is, yeah, I expect Stipe to be the one to make the adaptations here. Does he go for takedowns? Does he pump the jab? Does he use push kicks? Or what does he do? I expect DC to do the same thing he always does. He's going to walk him down. Who wins?

We'll see. Okay, this is from Javi EDLC. Luke, do you think McGregor gets Poirier if Poirier beats Khabib? In other words, would they give Conor the fight, or would they give Khabib the immediate rematch? They would 1 million

percent give Conor the fight. I'm going to walk right over you and step in on that. Yeah, I don't think so. I think Khabib would get the immediate rematch. They would 1 million percent give Conor the fight. I'm going to walk right over you and step in on that. Yeah, I don't think so. I think Habib would get the immediate rematch. Hell no, would he? Why? I understand the argument. Conor's all powerful. Do you know what a dream it would be for, not even Conor's all powerful,

do you know what a dream it would be for the UFC? Because you know they want to do a Conor-Habib rematch because the first one broke the pay-per-view record and the second one would add on to that. Do you know how lustful they would be to get the rematch with Conor as the champion? Are you kidding me? Yeah, that's a good point.

Still, part of me feels like to be the first person to beat Habib and you don't get an immediate rematch if you're Habib, that seems a little crazy. What would Dustin Poirier make more money with? A rematch with Habib or a title fight against Conor in a rematch? I think he'd make a lot. Well, yes, he'd make more with Conor,

but he would make a metric ton fighting Habib. Has the UFC proven that they're in the Habib business? Do they see him as a company man? I don't think so. They're taking the fight to Abu Dhabi. I know, but I think overall they realize he's a little bit of a loose cannon and somebody who will sit down on his own principles and somebody who's willing to... He's a loose cannon? a loose cannon and somebody who will sit down on his own principles and somebody who's willing to.

He's a loose cannon? A loose cannon from the standpoint of. He had one incident with one fighter. He's never. All right. You're taking my loose cannon thing to mean brawling outside the cage. I'm talking about loose cannon from the idea of threatening the UFC on multiple occasions before he was champion and after.

That's true. That he would retire or sit out. He actually did it on my show one time. So you get the point. You need to eat an Omerta sandwich after that. I do need to eat an Omerta sandwich. Yeah, that's a good point. I'll go with that.

Still, though, I don't know. To be undefeated in the most talent-rich division, frankly, this is not just the best division. This is the best division ever. Yeah. It's the deepest, the most dangerous. And it's the most crazy at the top, and you're the first guy to dethrone the champion, and they don't give the

champion a reason. That seems a little hard for me to believe. But, you know, Connor changes things in a mysterious way. Oh my god, Dana would be drooling off the side of his mouth if Dustin won this. You think so? Yes. Yeah, you might be right. I don't know. You know what? I'm just holding on to this sense of justice

for... Social justice, would you go for? No, for meritocratic norms. Like, you would think if you actually accomplished something that significant, the UFC would... Well, you know what? I'll say this, though. And then Dan Henderson gets a title shot at 46.

Let's say he defends a takedown enough and then knocks out Habib. That's one scenario. What if he gets a wonky decision? The wonky decision brings that back in. They have to run that back. They have to run that back. They have to run that back. So if it's like the point where you're like, oh, Dustin won that before they go to the scorecards or he knocks them out or something. Does he exit that arena in one piece if he gets a wonky decision?

Yeah, I don't think it would be. He used to live there apparently. I never lived in Abu Dhabi. But Dustin is not the kind of guy to like antagonize people in that way. He just wants, it was his words, 25 minutes to make life fair. There you go. I love that. I love that.

All right. Last but not least, I am not equipped to answer this question. Rich P. Top Tier says, what fighter has the best Instagram account and why? I don't follow a lot of fighters. Well, there's two kinds of Instagram accounts and two kinds of answers to this, right? One answer that we can give on this show. Oh, let me guess, the TNA answer? And then an answer we can give on the Patreon after hours.

God. Wow. So basically he's asking me, do you want to know my male answer or my female answer? You really are a simple man. I guess, yeah, go ahead. Give us what you got. That's all right. He's asking the question. You brought it up. Do it. Well, first of all, I'm Team Shevchenko on Instagram, okay? All right.

They give you a lot of interesting things. They travel a lot. They'll shoot weapons. They're kind of sneaky hot. Your thoughts? Is that your answer? Yeah. You got to give that to me.

What about on the men's side? See, you're not a social media guy, are you? Reluctantly. Jon Jones is actually a great follow because of his willingness to talk trash with fans and other fighters. Is that right? Oh, yeah. Just completely respond to things that maybe if you were his PR consultant, you'd say maybe you shouldn't. Don't do that, yeah.

I don't follow either of them. I would say, who's a good follow that I follow? You know what? He's not a fighter in the MMA sense. If you love beefs with just feuding all the time, dude, Gordon Ryan over at Henzo's. My man, first of all, he is coming back from knee surgery, and I don't know if he's competing at ACC or not, but just constantly beefing, dude. Beefing with Robert Drysdale.

Beefing with Andre Galvan. Beefing with people at the gym. Beefing with gym ownership. Like, all the time, he is lighting somebody up. So there's a lot of drama. You a big Sage Northcutt Instagram fan? No. It's like, here I drove through the drive-thru at McDonald's shirtless.

I follow, like follow World's Strongest Man on Instagram, Ben Pollack. I follow Kaler Woolham, Unleash the Weast. I follow Johnny Candido. I follow all the weightlifting donks. Lashitella Hadzi. I'm a big Zack Candido fan.

Yeah. So anyway, I just follow the weightlifting donks. I don't follow a lot of fighters on Twitter. I would give you Gordon Ryan. I don't want to take what you can't give, all right? Gordon Ryan is my answer. Are you going to L.A. or Anaheim for the fights this weekend? I will not be. No, you're skipping this one?

Well, you know, July was a busy travel month. I've got to kind of see my kids before they get old and move out. Yeah, I understand that. I am not going to go to this one either. I think the last time they were there, if I'm not mistaken, was 2014. No, 2014. When Jones came back and fought DC, but then had the issue right afterwards. So that is going to be the place where... Where was the site when Jon Jones said he didn't like you? That was that.

That was that? Yeah, that was that. So that fight was a Saturday, and that presser was like a Wednesday. So we actually passed the anniversary, was it two years? No, more than that. When was that? Was that two years ago or four years ago? That was the summer of 2017. So it was two years ago.

Yeah, two years ago. Got a lot of social media follows out of that. So thanks. Alright, alright. There's no such thing as bad press, right? I won't say there's no such thing but bad press is overstated as bad. I'll say that. Are you going to give us any Epstein comparison theories here or no?

Let's move on. Let's move on. I think that's the end of bad. I'll say that. Are you going to give us any Epstein comparison theories here? Let's move on. I think that's the end of it. We're done here. Odds and ends. What's your odds and ends for this week? Boxing this past week, anybody that caught on to zone, Golden Boy welterweight prospect Virgil Ortiz Jr. is for real. 14-0 with 14 KOs.

Stepped up in class against Antonio Orozco, a guy who just gave unified junior welterweight champion Jose Ramirez the business a year ago. When you're trying to gauge when you're watching a young fighter who's climbing, are they the real? Do they have it? I look at the instincts to finish. This is a kid who can knock you out with both hands.

And when he had Orozco on the ropes, after a couple rounds in which Orozco had battled back in, that sixth round, he put him down three times. Vicious uppercuts. Just the, you know, it's a hometown fight, which boxing is starting to wake up, Luke. They're starting to go, oh, we got a guy who can draw a crowd? Let's put it in his hometown if it's not a pay-per-view fight and get the heck out of these casinos.

And this was one of those where you get that feeling that Golden Boy may be in trouble with this Canelo situation like we talked about. This is a good guy to hang your hat on though And afterwards he had a little bit of a speech Basically it sounded a bit like Remember when Suge Knight came out there at the Source Awards that time And was talking about people Producers dancing in the videos

It was kind of like that Where he's like Oscar De La Hoya and Golden Boy You know like yeah So it was interesting this is the guy you can build around So keep your eye out for him Last but not least if you guys are not following one of the most successful promotions in sport jiu-jitsu is something called fight to win Pro and the reason why I like it is because at the top of the

card will get legitimately good they had a one bout that was amazing they had Travis Stevens who was a he's a black belt in judo and a black belt in jiu-jitsu and jiu-jitsu under John Danaher he was the silver medalist in the Olympics and he went up against one of my favorite grapplers, Yuri Samois. And it was an interesting battle back and forth. Long story short, they'll put a nice bout at the top of the card, but then they'll have local black belts and local browns and purples all go against each other. What about you?

He has a communal feel. It has a communal feel. So I've had friends compete on Fight to Win Pro. I had a friend compete this last week in the one in Austin, I think. The long story short is on this one, at the top they had, I always get her name wrong, it's Natalie DeJesus, I think it's longer than that. She took on Gabby Garcia. You know Gabby Garcia?

She's like 250 pounds, all bricked up. Yes, yes, I do, yes. She beats up old ladies in Japan. Gabby lost. She lost at Fight to Win Pro. Natalie, I guess, I'm probably mispronouncing her name. She didn't get the submission, but she went for submission, submission, submission, submission. And all Gabby did was just stack her on top.

And they gave a judge's decision to old Natalie. So congrats to her winning at Fight to Win Pro. Again, hugely undersized. All right. Hey, Mackenzie Dern's coming back, by the way. UFC Tampa? Yeah, that's what I've heard. Tough mother.

Also, you like that main event, right? Karate hottie and boogie woman? Yeah, it's okay. Really? Yeah. Doesn't move your needle a lot? Not much. Maybe I don't know you that well.

You know what? Fetus, bro. Fetus. All right, we've got to get out of here. You can follow me on Instagram, LukeThomasNews there. You can follow him at Brian C. Campbell. Yeah, at BCampbellCBS on Twitter. Hey, check out my weekly podcast with Rashad Evans,

A State of Combat on CBS Sports. How's that for a plug? It is quite good. All right, we've got to get out of here. Thank you guys so much for watching. Like the video. Subscribe to the channel. We'll see you all next time.

And until then, may all of your gains be loyal. We'll be you next time.