MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - UFC 249 In Florida, Scott Coker, Dominick Cruz | MORNING KOMBAT | Ep. 40

Episode Date: April 27, 2020

On episode 40 of Morning Kombat, Luke and Brian talk about the latest updates involving the UFC and its plan to hold events in Florida. They also dive into Bellator president, Scott Coker's comments on the plan and break down the potential fight match-ups themselves. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

it is Monday April 27th 2020 and it is time for morning combat hello donks my name is luke thomas thank you so much for joining me i am one half of your hosting duo the other half on the other side of the screen you know this gentleman from cbs sports among many other gas stations across the land it is the one and only 7-eleven cumberumberland Farms connoisseur. It's Brian Campbell. Brian, how are you good, sir? I am fired up, Luke. It's a new dawn. Yo, Luke, do you remember that routine that we used to make spiffy like Mr. Clean?

I'm a tidbit. I'm a smidgen. It's called covering fights. It's back, baby. BC's back. Fights are back. You can take your island and shove it, Luke. I want to get back into that cocoon of normalcy

and let that butterfly start to pop back out again, if you know what I'm saying, Luke. You know where I'm going with that? It's a tortured metaphor, but I'll let it slide just the same. I've had a gallon of Pepto-Bismol, BC. I feel great and ready to go. Your weekend was okay? Yeah, yeah. This was a good week.

Good weather in Connecticut. uh in connecticut a little you know a little little hike in little uh little action with the dogs you know that yeah yeah i'm ready i'm back look i feel like my quarantine soul has been healeth and i see the light i'm coming for it luke i'm coming all right well with that in mind we started a little bit early today because we wanted to make sure that we gave you guys enough time for a fuller show so with that being said bc let's get into topic one all right let's do it we do want to pressure people to uh understand that for this show to continue to succeed as it is luke i mean come on you know sorry i forgot before i get into it first thumbs up uh like the video, subscribe to the channel,

and how could I forget? I'm a little bit rusty, of course. If you would like to try Showtime for free, a free trial, you can go do that right now. Go to Showtime.com and just head over there, all the information you need. If you like it, you can stick around. If you don't, you can bounce. Either way, it's up to you. And this show, it stays free.

So it's gratis. Just watch it. Subscribe. Like the video. Without further ado, Brian Campbell, let's get into it, shall we? All right. Very good. Topic one here right away as I expertly slide to the right of the screen, the graphic comes up. Here we go, BC. UFC announced last week three events in seven days, a Saturday, a Wednesday, and a Saturday. The first of them will be the zombie, essentially, that is UFC 249. Now, let me start with the most basic elemental question about all of this, BC, which is what is the Brian Campbell level of confidence that not one, not two, but all three in that seven-day period take place?

I'm going to go 95%. Luke, I really feel like we are past the hurdle that we needed to get past, which was Dana White and UFC getting in line with a state commission, in this case, Florida, the only one currently of the 50 that's opening these doors. But I believe it will be the start of many more if you're following the news, to do this the right way, Luke. Yes, it's ambitious, three cards in seven or eight days, but it's all going to be in the same city, Jacksonville, the same arena,

the Vice Star Veterans Memorial Arena, and this is the start we needed, and this is the right way to do it which is really the key important part um i don't think that dana white's early ambition was necessarily fueled by the right things like there was definitely reckless tones in nature to what he was doing a lot of the criticism was deserved but i did ask you that question probably about a month ago on this show luke will there become a time during this fight when daniel white kind of goes from like reckless crazy guy i have secured an island to almost like robin hood of pro sports to bring this back now that's a little bit too generous of a statement to put on the guy but he's creating this light at the end of the tunnel to

get our jobs moving again and and i guess provide entertainment for people that are that are sorely lacking it and to get his fighters back in there and again final answer if it can be done safely and correctly yes i'm all in on it i talked to demetrius johnson this week who of course fights for one championship and he summed it up as simplistic as i've heard it luke if you can have people fly in and arrive at a site, if they can all be tested and everyone's safe and they enter a building, well, they should be able to exit that building without contracting the COVID-19. So as long as we can stay in that mind frame and have people flying in and out

and keeping the structure safe, Luke, let's freaking do this, bro. Yeah, well, unfortunately, that's not correct, and it's not that simple at all, which is why this whole thing could potentially become a disaster, but that's a separate point I'd like to make. To answer the first question, what is my confidence that the first three will take place? High, very high. In fact, I suspect that you indicated Florida's open first for business, other states will follow. I think that's true. Now, I also think some states are going to open for business and then close again and then open again and then close again. There's going to be this rolling,

I'm not going to say inability to stay open, but people are going to have to make adjustments on the fly based on how this whole thing goes. And I think whether Florida does it or doesn't, you're going to see some of this, yes, start start but then back up and start and back up again it's just not going to be a linear process but as for those three next week the first one I'd say 100% it happens second one I'm going to say 100% the third one I'll say 99 because lord only knows what kind of complicating factor could happen in those first two shows that maybe captures people's imaginations and leads to scrutiny. It's hard to say exactly. So I'm still saying it's a virtual guaranteed lock. All three happen. I would just be a little bit cautious about the last one. After that, though, it's

really hard to tell. Dana White telling Kevin Aioli of Yahoo Sports, they've submitted a 30-page paper to the governor in Nevada to show all the things they're going to do from a safety standpoint to get that business up and running again if they can end up lifting some of the social restrictions. So do they go back to Nevada after that? Do they stay in Florida somewhere? He said by the 23rd of next month, they'll be back there. But I think for next week, Brian, my level of confidence that those three shows take place is

high the question then becomes a little bit different which is is it a good idea given that we know florida what do you want to say brian not known as one of the better commissions yeah not known as one of the better commissions in the sport now your point is well taken i absolutely agree this is not apr April 18th all over again. This is not some rush. This is not self-regulating when the peak of the virus has hit the country and going outside of the commissions. It's the opposite.

They've got the governor involved. They've got the mayor involved. They've got the commission involved. And whatever you want to say about their level of oversight, that's the state giving their consent to it. That's a brand new ballgame. Plus, they've had more time to refine some of their processes around protocol, although we still don't know much. That being said, Brian, here's my point about this. Do I think something's going to go wrong the first show? No. Second show? No. Third show? Probably not. Who knows when and

how? But my point about Florida is this. They put on a show at the height of the pandemic, or at least the height of the beginning of the pandemic. I'll just say this, the beginning of the pandemic. And they didn't do any COVID testing whatsoever. They did temperature checks at the weigh-ins, and that was really about it, right? So to me, it's like I trust the UFC to do more than I do the state of Florida.

And the two together, maybe that's enough to keep everyone safe but I go back to what Margaret Goodman said I'm not gonna I'm not gonna Hector the MMA world at this point everyone's got their opinion on this you have enough information to make a decision about it but when we get back to like what safe actually is testing someone outside the business and the venue actually isn't good enough because you can get a lot of false positives so or false negatives rather so that doesn't tell you a whole lot so my only point of this is they're going to do i think as much as they reasonably can because the ufc doesn't want this to come back on them but to me that's not the same thing as saying

we've crossed all the t's and we've dotted all the i's there's still risk involved i got two points to say in response to that and i and i think you're right on on all that uh number one is that you know not to get socio-political on you because i largely try to avoid that but i do think it's time for events like this to take place there's a middle ground now i don't think the state of california or florida should flood with thousands of people on the beach which we're seeing i don't think that's safe but i think a in between sort of setup where you could go to your barber and have one person in there at a time or get your nails done or sit at a cafe four tables apart, whatever the middle ground is for regular life, it's time. The economy cannot hold this up. And obviously it's harder to do that in inner cities as it is in the suburbs where

things aren't as uh insane at the moment i think this level of no crowd fighting perfectly reasonable to fit in the middle of that but it goes back to echo that first point about doing it right and a couple weeks ago i thought dana wright was wrong right now i think he's nine tenths of the way there to doing right that one tenth though is potentially troubling and what that it constitutes luke i'm sure you saw the instagram live he did with brett okamoto vspn and then the follow-up with kevin aioli in both he purposefully dodged or outright decided not to answer that direct question will you have covid testing on site for the fighters and staff and the purpose of that is really what,

what questions you of why, right? I'm not going to say he's not answering because the answer is no. And he's trying, you know, he's trying to pull one bias. I think it's more of him just holding his ground and being like, I'm blaming all this on the media. So I'm going to continue to stiff arm you, but we got it. If long as the testing's going on and everything's safe, I don't actually want the details or care okay i do i'm a journalist i want to know but i'm not going to be pressing and getting it at that point but why wouldn't you say yes why wouldn't you nod your head even yes and just go like look i'm not giving you the details but yes obviously the fact that he's been very hard

at that edge and saying nope not going to answer that not going to quote feed the media anymore i've done that before i'm not going to do it anymore this ain't feeding the media this is answering the most important question in this entire equation so dana's reluctance to actually confirm covid testing and instead use it as a generic look we're all about health and safety we've always. That's a little bit troubling at this point, obviously. We're watching the fights at home. We're not there. We don't have as much of a stake involved. If you're telling me this is just his response behind the scenes, it's all buttoned up, then that's cool. But this was weird, as was his reluctance in telling Brett Okamoto in that same interview where the site was, even though A, it was already reported,

and B, the UFC put out a press release during that interview. That's a little bit bizarre behavior. moto in that same interview where the site was even though a it was already reported and b the ufc put out a press release during that interview that's a little bit bizarre behavior if we can get away from that and jay's wanting me to get away from that right now because he feels i'm holding down the show um we'll be in a great spot luke and i'll have really no criticisms well guys here's the thing i i don't think there's any way they have that show without COVID testing. And I would say multiple layers of it. I'm sure that, again, the UFC does not want blowback on themselves. I am certain that in their minds, they're doing everything possible. The question is, are they right?

And without any kind of transparency about what they're trying to do, maybe? Yeah, probably. I mean, no one really knows. The last thing I'll say about this is you're right about it it's like when fight island is ready do you think that they're not going to brag about everything that they have on that island about every facility about every t they've crossed every i they've dotted everything they have from a health and wellness standpoint to a training standpoint and everything else in between they're going to brag about every element of it all the way down.

As well they should. They'll have earned it. My only point being is if you want to brag about something like that, why wouldn't you brag about the safety protocol that you've also claimed to figure out? You're not telling Brett or me or you. You're telling the public. And that's what they're denying.

But again, I think it'll probably be fine for the first few shows. After that, who the hell knows? I guess we're going to have to figure this all out and see. Now, there's someone who has dissented BC. I'll go back to you on this. Let me make sure I get my very professional gangster lean on here as I move to point two. Bellator president Scott Coker has, he didn't come out and say he was against it, BC. But what he did say was the following argument.

Let me summarize it, if I may. If you're going to be this ambitious about being first, UFC said they want to be the first ones back. If you're going to do that, you have to be very, very careful. Because if you don't get that right, it doesn't really blow back against UFC. It blows back against the industry. Is Scott Coker raising a fair concern or is this concern trolling because he's going to get beaten to the punch? Maybe a little bit of both, maybe in the middle there. I certainly don't, you know, come

at him for saying that, but at the same time time there were some elements of Dana White's fight this whole time that have been true that in the end somebody's got to be first so let's fight and try to find a solution and a way to pull it off and it just so happens that right now timing wise and the and the methods that UFC is reportedly going to be using do make it seem like the right time at least for me personally and I'm got a microphone in front of me and giving you my take, that it's okay. But it's also very hard to know when it is okay, Luke, whether now is a horrible idea and two months from now is better or three months from now. But obviously, we're all facing our own version of a battle of what will our personal economy

look like at that point. I'm lucky to keep getting checks right now. Some people are getting nothing. But even Dana White echoed, maybe with an evil laugh on his face when he was talking to Kevin Aioli, that a lot of these media people that he hates are going to be losing their jobs too. Well, that's also true. Not saying my job is on the line, but a lot of my brethren are. Everybody's is. It's uncertain. At some point, you got to just take a chance and go for it and do it the right way. Again, I'm echoing saying i feel like dana white now is doing it the right way should bellator and scott coker want to wait and see if they can pull that off that's great and you know full disclosure they're

part of the overall viacom cbs family that we're in right now and if they do that and that's their choice and that's safe that's great but i'm also going to say right now if ufc can do this the way they're saying they can i feel like this is the right time yeah it's a weird one here right because on the one hand when the Nashville brawl happened which I don't blame I mean Strikeforce could have probably employed better security at the time that was the one criticism I thought was right I think Strikeforce in fact did change their security around the cage. What was the upshot in terms of how it affected UFC in the long run? Even the short run. And the answer was not much.

It didn't really blow back against the UFC that badly. But then again, Strikeforce was not the brand leader in MMA at the time. Granted, it was on CBS, a major, huge platform. But it didn't exactly affect the UFC's business. So could you say, well, there's a little bit of concern trolling here. It's hard to say exactly. Here's what I mean. I don't think that the number two having some kind of calamitous issue would necessarily affect the number one. Maybe if it was really bad enough, but probably not. If number two, if number one

rather had the bad enough response, something goes wrong, does that affect everyone else? Probably more likely, but even then, it would have to be really, really bad. So my point being is if somebody catches COVID-19 at this, you know, ESPN staff, UFC staff, a fighter or something, but it's pretty quickly contained and it doesn't spread, I actually don't believe that that would carry really any consequence. Even if a couple of people got it, there would be some damage control that would go into it,

but it would have to be something fairly bad, fairly calamitous for it to trickle down into the rest of the industry, even with the UFC's superior market and more visible position. So I think that Scott Coker is making a fair request in earnest, right? Because he stands to either benefit from the UFC pioneering a way forward, and or he stands to potentially get blowback if they mess it up. On the other hand, BC, I just can't keep... I don't think the UFC... If something goes wrong, God forbid, I'm not imagining a worst case

scenario. I'm imagining something maybe bad, but manageable. And to the extent that it is manageable, I actually don't think it affects Scott Coker, who by the way, isn't even talking about bringing Bellator back till July, August, maybe even September. Yeah, I agree with you. And then short of a calamitous thing where everybody catches it at once and sort of drops, which is ridiculous, but like it's, we're going to keep going on. And I think Dana White will, as we said before, open the door for not only more MMA and boxing to start getting back into business. And it certainly makes sense that the combat sports elements would be first because they don't have unions and it's, it's more, uh, it's a smaller playing field, but that will open the door to pro sports, Luke. And just to close on Dana, while I do have troubles with the whole war against the media thing at the moment, he has said a couple comments that really seem to put a bow on it

to give me some inner peace, which is they're going to spend an insane amount of money to get this right. And also, when talking about Fight Island, and I'm really coming from a point where I'm questioning at times, is Fight Island even real, or is this some sort of public sort of uh uh you know negotiation move

to try to get the doors to open faster but you know he said fighters and himself may need to be quarantined for upwards of two weeks when arriving or leaving Fight Island and that's just going to be the way it has to be I feel like it's time let's do it let's start off this show for once Luke and I know this has been know this has been the most important story. That's why we're hitting it hard every week. But I can't wait until we start off Morning Combat talking about that fight that we just watched two nights before. Yeah, I'm the same with you on that.

Last thing on this, you're right about that. I heard that in the interview with Kevin Aioli, Dana White, saying that people say, I don't take it seriously. Well, they say that, Dana, because you have made comments about the virus itself that was just not very reflective of any kind of public health consensus. However, BC, you're right. On the other hand, saying I might have to be quarantined for two weeks and I'm not planning on having a gate anytime soon, anytime for a while, tells you that whatever he thinks about the virus and whatever he thinks about the government response to the virus, he's planning for a world where people in positions of power, essentially over him, mayors, governors, commission members,

to an extent anyway, they're not going to agree with his consensus about what should happen. So now how do I develop my business in accordance with those realities? That's a shift. That's a level of growth for him that I think he had to mentally take. And I'm glad he did. I'm glad he's going to the state apparatus again. I don't know what's next for us, but I do know that they want to succeed. And I do know they don't want any blowback for their organization or the sport. Will get it right we're gonna have to see but I do think their head is in a much better place though I will recall at UFC on Fox 3 after Dave Meltzer had noted how poor the ratings were uh Dana I won't say yeah kind of mocked him for being laid off from Yahoo so whether or not he's

taking pleasure in the potential misfortunes of journalists, I don't know. But if he is, it wouldn't be the first time. Neither here nor there. All right. Well, he does like pleasure spike with pain. And music is his aeroplane, Luke. All right. Fair enough there. He does love some red hot chili peppers.

All right. Let's move on to our third story here. Speaking of fights, Brian Campbell, let's get into this now. Dominic Cruz. Dominic Cruz is going to get a title shot at UFC 249. Dana White has defended this, saying he's still one of the best guys in the world. However, he hasn't fought in almost four years, and he is currently unranked. BC, I'm in the giving mood.

I would love for you to go first on this one because I know you got ants in the pants about it. Is this the right call by the UFC or is this just strange calls in strange times? Look, it's hard to answer that right now, Luke, because we're in such a strange time. So, no. And we're also, by the way, coming right off of where Jose Aldo was picked for this spot,

coming off of two defeats. Including to the current top contender Marlon Marais. Who's up there in a crowded bottleneck division to begin with. So we're already in a weird spot. Yet it almost feels like Dominic Cruz somehow makes a little bit more sense than Aldo. Even though it makes in reality less sense. And in the overall picture right now. Of course it makes no sense.

Yet at the same time this is a fantastic story one that's really getting hidden within everything having to do with 249 and covid and tai chi palace as as i would say and luke would get upset about but dominic cruz is a obviously a legend but here's the deal luke he's the most inspirational figure or person I've ever come across in pro sports, interviewing, covering, being around. And I don't think that necessarily, you know, is a free pass to cut the line, which he's essentially doing right now, considering we do have the Maraises, the Petrayans, the Al Jermaine Sterlings, who are certainly much more deserving at the moment, but they're

just trying to cut and paste fights together. I mean, that's what Ferguson Gagey is at the moment. So under that setting, this is a great fight. It's a great story, a great opportunity. Yes. Cruz hasn't fought in two years. Yes. That was a loss, but it wasn't a title fight to Cody Garbrandt. And even though Cruz refuses to sort of put weight on it, he was injured in that fight that wasn't him so to speak obviously he's gonna have to prove four years later can he can he do that but if anyone can do it it's him luke he's done it before this is such a great story and a great opportunity and it really has nothing to do with the fact that uh the cringe master you know is is the champion right now henry

suhudo and a lot of us are just like oh Oh my God, that cringe is killing me. This is just a very interesting matchup to see if this great veteran champion can add a type of almost Paul Bunyan-esque layer to his resume, Luke. I love it. I can't wait to see the fight. Their styles match up so interestingly well. And sometimes you just have to put the journalistic pen down and just cheer for someone from the standpoint of, of inspiration and encouragement and just cheer for someone from the standpoint of of inspiration and encouragement and just loving what who they are and what they bring to the game and in a lot of ways that's Dominic Cruz this one is weird for me because I'm all over the place with it BC I mean let's here's the thing let's just talk about brass tacks which is where is this fight taking place

yes Jacksonville but I, what kind of card? Now, Dana White told Kevin Aioli that those cards on that subsequent Wednesday and that subsequent Saturday, he doesn't know if they're airing on ESPN Plus or ESPN. He just didn't know at the time. I guess we'll have to end up seeing. I suspect it'll probably be ESPN Linear because they're desperate for content, but whatever. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

But he's fighting Dominic Cruz at UFC 249. You're going to sell this on pay-per-view. Let's just say what it is. If you're going to have a pay-per-view, you've already lost Khabib. You need something if you're going to have another title fight that has some kind of intrigue. And unless you're a hardcore,

Peter Jan versus Henry Cejudo does not have that kind of bigger picture intrigue. I talked to Corey Sandhagen. They didn't even offer him the fight. And he beat Rafael Sonsal, who, of course, beat Aljamain Sterling. So you can talk about Sterling and Sandhagen. Neither of them got offered a title fight.

They both got left hanging out to dry, so to speak. They went straight to Cruz. Cruz is unranked, as I mentioned, and has not fought in three and a half, nearly four years. But as you indicated, he came back against Mizugaki after a long layoff and blew the doors of him. He came back against TJ Dillashaw and proved at least he was competitive at the time with the top of that division. You have seen this guy take massive amounts of time off and then come back and be very, very competitive. So between that and his name value recognition and his story about dealing with injuries and how he is known to fans for being a commentator and a brilliant mind who can sort of figure out his way through most problems, it becomes a significantly better fight in terms of intrigue

for the kind of audience you're trying to appeal to. Remember, the biggest audience in MMA is not the of audience you're trying to appeal to. Remember, the biggest audience in MMA is not the hardcore audience. It's the casual audience. Dominic Cruz is the bridge to get to them much more easily. So I think that's a big reason why this fight is happening. In the end, I don't know if he's going to beat Henry Cejudo. Neither do you. We have no clue. What I will say isc is running a risk because if peter yan fought henry suhudo and got the doors blown off you would just say well suhudo is just that much better and we gave him the best guy he could fight and that's that on the other hand if cruz

goes up in there and gets molly whopped i'm not saying he will but let's just pause at a scenario where he does ufc is going to look like they made a craven, craven move to just move pay-per-view units when 20 million Americans were out of work. On the other hand, if he goes in there and at least makes a strong account of himself, or Brian Campbell, can you imagine? If he wins the title, they'll be completely vindicated, even if there were more, let's say, cynical reasons for why this fight should take place. They're betting on themselves to win here one way or the other.

And let's just be, you know, out and open with it. When Aldo was announced for this, I ended up just going, look, how could it be so wrong if it feels so right? The fan in me loved it. But this is all under the guise of this. Look, this is a middle finger to their rankings, but this isn't the first time. So while that's not me saying that's the best way to do your promotion at the end of the day mma is entertainment ufc is

an entertainment business 46 year old dan henderson got a title shot just a couple years ago after elbowing hector lombard in the face viciously a few times like it doesn't always make sense they've done this before they're going to do this again under these circumstances though i don't see how you can really criticize normally yes you can criticize jose aldo in that spot it was a little dicey right i like jose aldo i like the story potential there uh but under these circumstances what are you going to say look what are you going to say we're just lucky to get fights back yeah i mean again beggars can't be choosers that's a big part of it i will say though i do feel for sterling and sandhagen who themselves were supposed to fight and i think that all got

scuttled because of the california commission shutting things down in may now maybe they'll get back to it and the winner of that will then leapfrog into a position to take on the winner of this but again you're in this we're in this time where the ufc is going to have to make decisions about where fights take place and with whom that are just not going to be anything resembling normal and i don't think that we have a responsibility as fans or media to just go along with it on the other hand because of the unique nature of what Cruz has shown, you can't immediately dismiss it, BC. You gotta say, something there.

Outside of the fact that Cruz did lose his last fight to Garbrandt, although, again, it was a title fight, is this remotely, I mean, is this like, what am I trying to say here? When GSP came back and got the middleweight title shot,

never fought in the division before, hadn't fought in X amount of years, I know he's coming off of wins, but that was welterweight it's kind of the same thing stars get extra special treatment normally it is what it is this is a great story all things considered love it embrace it it's going to be great and the cringe era might be over at bantamweight we're going to find out luke yeah if dominic cruz does that he'll be a legend in the sport forever are we move on to point four now Brian Campbell this is some news that you broke I was like look at my man BC out here breaking news like a goddamn champ Amanda Nunes your champ champ says she's not going to fight at UFC 249 originally scheduled to take place against Felicia Spencer at uh what was it

featherweight I believe right if? If memory serves. Yes. I can't remember anymore. Yes. And she said, you know what? I'm not going to do it. I need a full camp. Don't have one. Even though she lives in Florida, not going to take place here.

All right, BC. Again, I'm in the given mood. I'd love for you to take this one since you broke the story. She told you her reasons in basic detail about why she didn't want to do it for those who didn't hear it what are those reasons and then more importantly do you understand her decision making process here uh she said which is what you just said that she's a champion at this point with the uncertainties of coronavirus even though she's been allowed in the ATT gym each day under, you know, one-on-one with a coach for a couple hours to do some drills. She doesn't feel like it's worth the risk in this craziness,

which by the way, to understand her personal situation, engaged to Nina Ansaroff, who was pregnant with their first child, you can understand that that's a different scenario. Add in coronavirus, add in craziness. She just thought it would be better off for me to push it off a little bit. She's not talking about next year she's talking about june most likely in this spot you saw a a huge sort of reaction online i think rightfully so people being like yeah take that stand um i loved it i love that she felt for her sense it was better off to protect to do it the right way to not rush it back under these circumstances. That doesn't mean, though, Luke, that it's wrong to be a cowboy, Cerrone, Anthony Pettis type who, you know, that fight matriculated out of nowhere. And it's a great fight.

And it's in the preliminary main event of this loaded card. And that's who those type of fighters are. They're sort of always ready to go into battle for a payday or just the opportunity. There can be two different kinds of fighters just like when Dana White goes on these interviews and says a few times um there's no penalty if you don't want to fight right now now when we hear that we go yeah right company men and company women always sort of get to the front of the line and they do but they do in every business so I like that there can be two sides of the street and that someone as powerful and famous,

oh, and she's also the greatest female fighter of all time, and a man of newness can take this stance and be like, for me, it's better off that I take another month and do it right. Yes, yes, yes. Doesn't discount the opportunistic people who don't need or want that. It's how life should be, Luke. I love it. I'll say this. You mentioned the fact that her fiance or I guess her fiancé, or no, are they married?

What's their status, Merrilee? I looked that up today. I think it's still fiancé, but life partner, whatever you want to call it. Sure, her partner is pregnant with their child. And so having a degree of caution, I can only imagine, right? Shouts to my daughter. She turns one today. I have to take her this week to go get her shots at a hospital. that's not more than a mile from here. And I'm terrified of what might

happen at that hospital. So I can understand having a strong degree of reservation about wanting to put yourself through this in the middle of that kind of an environment. Totally get it. I'll just say this. I don't question her decision at all.'s just a reflection of of what leverage gets you right and how different the reactions have been inside MMA versus boxing you know this Brian there's like nobody clamoring for these top fighters to get going again in boxing in the way that there has been inside MMA you even had who was it a Bud Crawford this week. Now he gets paid as part of his check from the gate. And he's saying, listen, there's no gate. You're going to have to pay me more. I doubt promoters are going to want to be in that position. So there's a real concern

on the boxing side that while MMA, you might get some of the bigger fights, we're going to lose some of them too. But in boxing, you might get a lot of mid-tier guys who are willing to compete, but not a lot of the bigger ones because they're going to be out financially and they just don't feel like it's worth it to them. Here's the point. When you're like Amanda Nunes and you have built and built and built and built, during that path, you're going to take some risks. Some fights are going to take when you don't feel 100%, and I know she had that one fight with Shevchenko that she didn't take at the last second, but in general, she has taken and stepped on and over every tough challenge that's been in front of her, and I'm sure sometimes she didn't feel great, and sometimes she wasn't appreciated, and sometimes she didn't get the bump, but she had to keep

moving forward until now she's knocked out Ronda Rousey, and she's knocked out Holly Holm, and Cyborg, and everyone else in between, and Raquel Pennington, and she beat Duran Dami. She's beaten every one of her contemporaries. She has found herself at the mountaintop. She is in a place now where she can have a little bit of discretion about, what do I want to do if I'm going to put all of this that I've built, or at least parts of it anyway, at risk? And this was the conclusion that she came to.

This was the way in which she had assessed this. Now, she's going to get paid no matter what because she's a champ. But if she loses this, what happens to that 145-pound division? She would not get paid another time for that. I don't believe it was in that weight class. So there's also some financial considerations in there for her if she couldn't get the full camp who could possibly honestly be against this and the last thing i'll say on this bc is dude if she hasn't earned the right to say yeah yay maybe nay honestly who has well and i hear what you say

you know she she has the leverage that's why she can pull this off well yeah definitely but unless more people with leverage attempt to do this then you're going to have uh you know a deepening on the idea that fighters don't have any rights and they're just sort of you know always have to fight her or always have to be rushed back in so this creates i think the right precedent where if you want to wait a little bit you can and and look again if she's waiting till next year that's another conversation she said let to wait a little bit, you can. And look, again, if she's waiting until next year, that's another conversation. She said, let me wait a month. Like, can we chill on that?

If anyone has any problems with that? I mean, this card is already loaded enough. 249, seriously, it's a fantastic card. Yeah, I'm guessing Felicia Spencer's not thrilled with it, but, you know, she's the champ champ. Sorry, and I'm not sure what to say. I feel bad, but sorry. All right, point five. Let's the champ champ. Sorry. I'm not sure what to say. I feel bad, but sorry. All right.

Point five. Let's get to it now here. This one was really interesting to me, BC. Robert Whitaker broke his silence. I think speaking to the Daily Telegraph was the name. Obviously, he had a fight at UFC 248. He pulled out of it. He may still take on Darren Till in the future.

But there were rumors at the time that he had pulled out because his kids had some kind of bone marrow issue and needed a transplant. And he says, it was crazy rumors, he doesn't know where any of that's coming from. And in fact, what really happened was he was burned out. He was burned out. I want to start with this one in asking the question about how believable we assume this to be. Here's my response to this, BC. I would love to get your perspective, but let me go first, if I may,

which is I completely believe that what he is saying, I have no idea if what he is saying is true, but what he is saying has all the hallmarks of it because we've seen it over and over and over and over again with other champs. I've asked Israel Adesanya, the man who dethroned him, how do you keep up this travel schedule and this training schedule and this fight schedule where you're constantly in camp and you're not burned out?

How do you do it? We've seen it with George St-Pierre. Once I interviewed him, this was before the Hendricks fight, before he took that sabbatical, and I'd never seen George so mean, so rude, which is so unlike him. But I knew he wasn't a mean or rude guy. He was just completely wiped by the whole process. So the things he is saying are true.

And remember, this guy had injury after injury, hard fight after hard fight, time off. And then you get injured and you have to come back and rebuild yourself. And you have a tough fight. You got to heal. You have to come back and rebuild yourself and you have a tough fight. You got to heal. You have to come back and rebuild yourself. And you had last minute cancellations and the, the, the,

the pride of a nation hangs in your hands. And it's just a lot to weigh on for a guy who's got three kids and he wants to be home. That story he's telling is true. And I don't want to give credence to the rumors. They were unsubstantiated. The bigger outlets who usually can, you know, figure out what's what,

they never said anything about it. The only thing I want to caution people against is a lot of times fighters will say things to the media that are not true and they might do it to protect a loved one. Is that happening here? I have no reason to think that it is. I have no evidence. All I'm saying, BC, is I'm not saying those rumors were true or that the story he's saying is false, but rather always keep a little bit, just a little bit, of their comments about things like this. Take them with a grain of salt

because you never know the motivations they might have for saying them, but I believe he probably was burned out, and if that's the case and he's got that under control, he's still young enough, if he hasn't taken too much damage, BC, case and he's got that under control he's still young enough if he hasn't taken too much damage bc to make another run at that middleweight title yeah i tend to believe him because i think there's evidence in there his body constantly giving out was a message that there was an overload this grind was too much and i think if you really read the details of that story this epiphany came to him on Christmas afternoon when he's running hills like

a maniac to prepare for a next fight and you know it he explained how when he transitioned from welterweight to middleweight and really went all in on the sport and his coaches said look if you train at this level if you get your mind right and you get to this level of of warriordom and you live this you could be you know limitless potential you could be champion well he lived that he got that but there's a price to pay for that luke when you're around the clock around the 12 month calendar like that all the time his body broke down i wouldn't doubt uh mentally he was breaking down which george saint pierre was very open and honest about when he did step away from the sport, that, like you mentioned, that pressure of game planning and protecting and defending

is got to be, look, I mean, heavy as the crown. We know that. So here's my point on this. I think the best thing that could have happened to him was that recent defeat and this opportunity to reset. Athletes need this. It's certainly harder in the UFC when you can't just take a year off. You know, there's pressure to defend.

The interim titles pop up. You can get stripped. But when you look at somebody like Floyd Mayweather, who very strategically took off key elements in his prime. I mean, do you remember in 2007 when he beats Oscar De La Hoya, knocks out Ricky Hatton, and becomes a mountaintop star, the biggest draw in the sport? Well, boxing, you have more leverage. He was allowed to step away from the sport and control his own narrative. And he worked on things like WrestleMania and Dancing with the Stars to build his brand. But those next few years when he was already in his early 30s, he's sort of handpicking

fights once a year and taking off the time that he needs to heal his hands, to heal emotionally and physically. You cannot do that again in the UFC if you are champion and have a long reign which is why I think we need to pause more often and look at the kind of streaks that George St. Pierre Anderson Silva and John Jones went on because they're ridiculous and Amanda Nunes is currently going on to mentally and physically be able to retain all that everyone's body is different everyone's mind is different I really respect Robert Whitaker for coming clean about what happened because when he pulled out of that recent fight it was obvious that something out of the ordinary happened and i don't think it's

any harm done should he take as much time as he needs to reload because luke time away from any grind you know especially our jobs when we're going 100 miles an hour juggling you know projects and going nuts you got you got to be able to reload, and that isn't always given for an opportunity when you're on top. You know, it's interesting. Tom Lawler told a story about overtraining as well where he didn't even realize how overtrained he was, and then he went into the weight room for a weight training session

and I think picked up a barbell, and then in a way he can't explain, dropped the weight, went back to his car, sat in his car, and broke into tears. Because his body and his mind was so fried by all of this, and he wasn't even aware of it until you get to a breaking point. That's usually the problem. You either reach some kind of physical breaking point, which you had indicated, or a mental one.

And they're both kind of bad, but at least at this point, he has an opportunity to reset. You know, you think of these fighters as like, they're so in tune with the fight game and what they have to do that they are able to figure everything out about themselves and about the task at hand. And the reality is, what often they're doing is just throwing the book at the wall and seeing what sticks.

And until they have understood that process of trial and error, like, I can do this and I can skip that, it usually is run until the wheels fall off and then they have understood that process of trial and error and like i can do this and i can skip that it usually is run until the wheels fall off and then they make a change i wish there was some kind of way to have an intervention before they get to that point but i guess we'll have to see if training to how it gets better in the future the one challenge i would say to what you said though brian is you had floyd i think you're right in the sense that it was good for him to take time off in the times that he did. But part of that was, one, the leverage scenarios and how important he was as a promotional feature

for any television network or any rival fighter he was going up against. It's a big to-do when he competes. But the more important part is Floyd was ahead of the game. He had time to take off because his peers were not as good as him. And I know at the end of his career, he got a little bit selective about the timing, about when he would take certain fights, under what circumstance, Canelo a little early, Cotto a little late. Okay, fair enough. But you can't really do that in modern MMA, not merely because the promotion won't let you but because if you do

chances are the game will just pass you by we'll find out if that's the case with Dominic Cruz as we indicated with UFC 249 but it brings up something we've talked about a lot on this show and really just privately and then it's a discussion point in the industry people mocked Fedor for having great wins and then cans and then great wins and then cans.

Yeah, but the reason why his streak was so long is because he had those breaks in between. I'm not saying that UFC needs to completely change their mode of business, but what I am saying is Robert Whitaker is not going to be the last guy to be ground into dirt. And if it's a way to avoid that by giving them other potential matchups in the interim that don't drain them in that kind of a way. I don't know why that's the worst idea in the world.

And also what's a really bad idea is fighting Yoel Romero for 10 rounds in the span of like 13 months. That'll break you down physically and mentally. And yeah, avoid that at all costs. Last time before we go to the DMs with Donks, do you like the idea of tune-up fights in UFC or are you against them? I mean dms with donks do you like the idea of tune-up fights in ufc are you against them i mean at face value do i like it no because what has made ufc so successful that there's no tune-up fights unless you're at the conor mcgregor level which even then you know it's so rare but uh yeah i get what you're saying you can't keep i mean it's it's

really luke absurd what silva gsp and jones have done over that long length of time i know anderson silva fought a couple patrick cote's in between but you get my point um it's it's unsustainable absurd what Silva, GSP, and Jones have done over that long length of time. I know Anderson Silva fought a couple Patrick Cote's in between, but you get my point. It's unsustainable for boxing or MMA to take hard fight after hard fight, and that's why so many of the greats from the 80s in boxing that we love had very smaller windows career, you know, careers at the very top. It's hard to do, but yeah, a little bit. If you can lower it just a little bit. I mean, Dominic Cruz for Henry Cejudo right now

is sort of that perfect matchup like we talked about where it hits the entertainment, it hits the storyline, but will it be as much of a physical grind if he got in there against Peoche Yan? Probably not, Luke. And we haven't talked about it. Conor McGregor taking all that time off. A lot of it might be related to indiscretions outside the cage

or whatever other issues are happening in his life. But if that keeps him fresh and he's able to get back and compete, we'll see how things go with travel. It may not be the worst thing in the world either. Yeah, you've taken a lot of time off this show. And look, you're as happy as you've ever been right now, Luke. I've not taken multiple times of time away from this show. What at it. You're as happy as you've ever been right now, Luke. I've not taken multiple times of time away from this show. What are you talking about?

Well, it let Chuck Mendenhall come into our lives. So I didn't hate it, but it gave you the rest you need to put a smile on your face. You're welcome. How about that? Alright, time now. Let's get to it. It's where your questions come into the show. It's DMs from dogs. Let's hear it.

There it is. You know, not being able to hear any of the production elements puts me on mega tilt. Can I say that out loud? Yeah. Alright, let's go first here. I can't read shit. This comes to us from Front Side

Na Comply. What are these names? Do you think that Gaethje will still only fight five or six more times? He said that a few fights ago, but hasn't really gotten hurt since fighting Alvarez. What do you think, BC? I think his fighting style may only allow, seriously, in reality, five to six more times at an elite level if he continues to fight like that. Yes, he's made the really nice adjustments that we've talked about that have made him a title contender and finishing three straight people in the first

round is certainly a way to um not take on a lot of damage but as his um as his skills you know the better you fight competition and the the more you put in there it's going to take a lot out of you at the end of the day the guy's a hard-nosed brawler. Five, six more times, that could last him a few years. Yeah, maybe that's how it goes. That's only two more years. I don't believe that. I think he competes for, I'd say, three or more because it's really going to depend on what kind of fights he has.

Now, I'm expecting that Tony Ferguson fight, win or lose, to take a pound of flesh from both of those guys. But if he has three more fights after that, I'm positing a scenario where it was like the Vic fight and the Barboza fight and the Cerrone fight, where they all three end in the first round, he's going to have a lot more than six. So it really is a function of how difficult the fights are. If it's like the first three he had in the UFC, yeah, he might have only five or six more. If it's like the last three, he could have potentially a significant amount. We'll have to see.

All right, this is from MG underscore MMA. How will UFC acquire new talent with regional shows, likely not running events for the foreseeable future? BC, they're going to become their own regional promoter. They're going to have Dana White's Tuesday Night Contender Series. I mean, I'm not declaring news. I'm giving my opinion. But they're just going to act as their own regional promoter if're going to have dana white's tuesday night contender series i mean i'm not declaring news i'm i'm giving my opinion but they're just going to act as their own regional promoter if they have to yeah i mean they already sort of have in a lot of ways with that contender

series which really has produced nothing but viable contenders right from the launch of it so i think they've eliminated that need to a some degree but um in terms of that the spirit of that question i feel like luke we're gonna have a full year of weirdness when it comes to how this virus affects combat sports. But I have to feel like it'd be business as usual after that. And I'm not saying that year of weirdness won't delay or change things. But I don't know. I feel really optimistic, Luke, that we're not through the hardest parts. But getting fights back is a major hurdle.

Empty arena business isn't the best for consumers or probably for fighters, but that'll be the bridge that gets us there. I mean, if you had to guess right now, Luke, if somebody put a revolver deer hunter style and you put on a red headband, when do we have crowds again and it's like this never happened a year like this never happened no okay forget the last part how about crowds again luke so let's

say let me let me pause the scenario 500 or less right that's not a it's not a great crowd but that's you can get no i'm talking i'm full crowds, Luke. I'm talking not every other row. I'm talking full crowds. Next April? Yeah. Next January, maybe. No. Two, three years.

Easy. All right, Luke. Hold on. Time out here. All right. Two to three years. You're saying 20,000 people in a venue? Yeah, two to three years.

Yes, I am. Yeah, two to three years. I'm not saying that that that the corona quarantine's over by july 1st believe me i'm saying that we probably learned a lot of lessons from this that will apply to our lives luke like you know you and i we i think tip to tips out the window i may never even shake your hand again we may never even do a show in proximity of each other again luke but does that mean a full arena two to three years get the hell out of here look how aggressive dana's been i feel like okay here's a very here's a very simple way

to assess this what are you reading that tells you by not this july but the following you're going to have 20 000 people together in a room because i gotta tell you there is nothing that i am looking at that indicates that's a possibility. All right. I'm saying, all right, let me give you a reasonable. February 2021, 20,000 people in the room. Yes. No. Let's do this.

Ready? They might come up with an antiviral treatment, okay? In which case, that would be a game changer, and then we're all in a better spot. What is the fastest a vaccine has ever been created? Do you know the answer to that? Rubella, 1913? No. Ebola. And it took five years.

Five years. Now, the current level of medical investment is beyond even that. I mean, we're way past that in terms of this arms race, essentially, by pharmaceutical companies and other interested parties to make a vaccine. So let's say we cut that in half, two and a half years. Well, dude, it's 2022 or 2023. It's just math.

And that's assuming that you can cut the fastest rate ever by 50%. So everyone's like, oh, it'll take at least 12 months to 18 months. That's assuming that the very first human trials all go perfectly. Well, what if they don't? So 20,000 people in a venue? Yeah, dude, your kids are going to be in high school by that point. Look, I haven't made many life decisions based on statistics or, you know. You're from a factory town.

We know. But I'm giving you that window. February to April 2021, back in business, baby. I'm telling you. I just have a feeling, Luke, okay? Here's what I will say. Also, here's what I will say. 500 people, 1,000 people, 2,000 people.

I'll keep an open mind about that. 20,000? Not anytime soon. Can the business of the fight game, boxing and MMA in general, from the top to the bottom, get by on a limited to no gate for two years? I mean, maybe the highest level of UFC because the television deal is reportedly, what,

$750 million per year. But, you know, I think... Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. This is why I'm worried about the regional business. There was a great article in MMA Junkie. I think Nolan King had written it. If I got that wrong, please forgive me.

And he talked to a bunch of promoters who are regional promoters. Now, the good news is a lot of those guys who are regional promoters, that's not all that they do. Like, I own a car dealership, and also I promote MMA fights. So, more or less, it's an extra stream of income, but it's not what they build their lives on. So, in that sense, they're resilient. In the other sense, though, they make the majority of their money from a gate. They don't have television deals. And if they do, they're not worth very much. They air on the local Comcast sports net for whatever your small area of the country is.

So without a gate, they can't make hardly any money. That I'm worried about. That I'm really worried about. This is why the UFC and Bellator, you might see them be like, oh, we're going to make all these fights. You're thinking to yourself, how could you do that dude they might have to become in much way in ways they've never been regional promoters because regional promoters can't make money if they don't have the ability to have a gate that is the worrisome part all right well luke let me tell you like this um i watched the news this morning uh movie theaters are opening up like today in some states and i'm not

saying that's smart nor would i advise anybody to go to the movies let alone get in a public plane at this point right now you know april whatever but by february 2021 yeah they're we're gonna have 20,000 people in the arena luke they're probably gonna all be wearing masks or they probably should be and you'll probably see those uh you know those those really well-dressed good-looking people on the front 10 rows at UFC shows. They're probably going to have diamond-encrusted affliction masks and all that, and that's cool. But when Dana White has said a lot of things, right? We talked about that earlier.

The worst of it was, if I had a good run, I had a good run. If Corona's going to get me, then come and get me, Corona. That stuff is just ridiculous gung-ho crap but he has made some pretty strong points about the ingenuity of the american society and the adjustability and the we'll figure out a way to you know to find a new norm and get through this i can't see luke you know march april 2021 that we have 500 people in an arena no it'll it'll be back luke you'll see and then we'll look back on this day. Have you not followed any of the stories

from all these countries who did a... I have, Luke, but you are also... We're finished. You're an extremist in one direction. Dana's an extremist in another direction. You are the extremist. I am not. I'm the dong middle ground, Luke.

No, dude. You're the extremist. You're the extremist. It is not me. All of these countries who did a phenomenally better job than ours at closing this down have, to some extent, in many cases, tried to reopen them and have sports. And in virtually every case, it has backfired. And they've had to stop.

And they've had new outbreaks. And we're going to have another wave of this, probably, in all likelihood, it's what they're telling us anyway, in the fall. And it's going to be a much worse one because that will actually coincide then with the seasonal flu. And that will be a motherfucker of epic proportions. Dude, there is not any expert that I can see, not one, saying there's going to be arenas open with 20,000 people in them

by February. That is just wishful thinking, not in keeping with... I understand you want to have optimism and you want to believe you can do better. And optimism is the kind of way that gets you to a solution-oriented place. I believe that. I'm certain of that. At the same time, you can't figure out real actual solutions until you come to grasp what the challenges are. And until there is a vaccine or some kind of antiviral treatment, dude, it is going to be a long time. Okay, maybe in closed arenas, what about stadiums? Because look, I've seen the news. There's thousands of people on the beach in California right now without masks.

I'm not saying that's safe but what if we took those thousands of people with masks and put them in an outdoor stadium and had big fights that's probably possible by next spring the the they can trace the outbreak of covet 19 in italy to one particular match between valencia and atalanta now that was before everybody knew everything but the point being is they called it, what did they call it? They called it a COVID-19 nuclear bomb because of how much it spread from that one game. I went back and I looked this up. In the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, you can trace upticks in the,

they would have an outbreak and it would go down, and then they would relax restrictions, and they would have an outbreak and it would go down and then they would relax restrictions and they would have public gatherings. You can trace to those public gatherings a re-spike in conditions. So what's about to happen? I don't know. I do think there is a case state by state

because not everybody is New York, for example, where some restrictions and some easings in a carefully constructed way can get us there. But I keep telling people this, dude, what are all the experts, not me, what are all the experts saying we need to have to open up again? We need to have three times per day as many tests as we have now and an army of contact tracers to get there. We have neither of those things. So where is this confidence coming from? Just because you want to be happy? Well, everybody wants to be happy.

I'd rather understand what I'm up against. All right. If that's the case, you're just giving me a lot of murder is the case you're going to give me. And I'm going to give you a middle ground, Luke. And that middle ground begins between February and April of next year. I'll see you at the fights, Luke. All right. Very good.

This comes to us from ks no k stew bp1 what non-combat sports do you find best increase fight iq for example bouldering rock climbing parkour gymnastics soccer diving etc what do you think bc the best increase fight iq yeah that's a weird one huh yeah i don't i don't i don't know if i'm smart enough for that luke i don't i don't you know i didn't go to the college of william and mary all right i was a janitor at stop and shop during those years all right maybe hey dude i'm not i've burned feces for the united states military whatever jobs you've had they've not been as bad as mine um could parkour increase your uh strategy i don't know luke gymnastics could right body awareness all right that's fair that's fair i'll give you that okay we're figuring this out um could soccer yeah i guess there's footwork elements dominic cruz has

a very soccer like fighting style right i guess uh dancing luke i know you met your wife at a shooting gallery but how about dancing luke that could probably help right yeah i've known i knew a guy who was a black belt who had a school and he also was a competitive salsa dancer oh hey is there a connection maybe maybe uh i don't know i don't think i think all the other ones they can help not so much with fight iq which is like decision making ability in the middle of a fight i don't know that any of those help you i mean maybe bouldering does because you have to make you know but that's slow decision making too so i i don't know about those i mean maybe there's an answer there maybe there's's not. But the other ones like gymnastics, dancing, I don't know,

any sport that requires you to develop certain sensitivities to how your body moves and weight is distributed and balance and footwork, that can have a carryover benefit. But fight IQBC, I don't know. You know what sport will F your body up? You ever play racquetball, Luke? Yes. Dude, I played racquetball uh competitively

for a while oh wow that thing good lord there's muscles you didn't even know you had that are pulsating after that luke yeah you ever played squash no that's rich racquetball i don't you know i don't i don't know okay i've only played hold on hold on i had a single i had a single mom growing up i don't want to hear it, okay? But I played squash a couple of times with friends. Racquetball is fun because the ball, did you play with the blue ball or the green ball? Well, I had a long run with blue balls, Luke,

but I'm not really sure. I knew that was coming, you fuck. I knew it. I knew it. Did you ever play with the green ball i don't i don't remember the color luke i don't see color right you know come on yeah yeah you love to racism bro it doesn't matter if he's black or white luke all right come on the green ball is thicker and heavier so it doesn't travel with the same kind of velocity typically it slows the game down and it's a

little bit different in squash the The ball is like the size, not even of my, my Samsung case for my earbuds. And you have to smash it to get any kind of balance. It's actually, the court is narrower. It's a different game. Obviously it's actually really,

really hard to play a racquetball. I found obviously very hard to play, but a little bit, a little bit more fun squash is just intense too intense for me okay i'd like to play you in racquetball luke yeah i haven't played in years but i was good at when i was 16 uh won tournaments in the whole nine yards here we go um i could see you into only solo sports knowing your personality this isn't a solo show you don't really like to rely on others

you're very abrasive towards jay my ex-boy band friend listen and what are you complimentary yeah i'm a big no escape fan you know all right cha underscore underscore vita better rivalry wiley coyote and the roadrunner or Tom and Jerry BC. What do you think? How about itchy and scratchy on that one? Yeah, the Coyote and Roadrunner are timeless. They're the cowboys and the Indians of rivalries, Luke. Yeah, they're fantastic.

All right. Let me ask you about this, though, about Wile E. Coyote and the Roadrunner. Are we really going here? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, holdner. Are we really going here? Okay, yeah. Well, hold on. Is it really a rivalry? Like, do, let me ask you, do lions and gazelles have a rivalry?

That seems like one-way traffic to me. Yeah, globetrotters and the generals. I hear you, Luke. I hear you. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Who writes this shit, right? I mean, come on, you know? Yeah, who picked these questions?

Was it Gaff? Fire Gaff immediately. No, Gaff's my guy. Okay. All that shit you see each week, Gaff gets his hands dirty and sets it up for me, all right? All right, Gaff's rehired. Let's go to this last one. Billy Big Wheels with a z in light of trump suggesting the possibility of injecting

disinfectant into your body to kill the rona what what is the biggest on-air slip you've ever had obviously you got to go first um i have thankfully thankfully i have not had a a major but on-air slip of any kind i think one time recording a podcast, uh, I had, you know, you've had moments like that where you're not live or anything and you're just sort of like, you know, a word combines with another word and suddenly you said something bad. But let me tell you this slip I had one time. All right. Um, you know, Twitter, Luke, it makes the world smaller. I didn't grow up like knowing boxing fans when boxing Twitter got created on Twitter. It was like, Oh my God, all these crazy weirdos they're they're my people right all these people that read my work i can

dm them we could talk box there was a guy on twitter whose name um was like at triple g lomachenko or something like that and regularly would would type at me all the time and he would post pictures of himself and he was one of those corporate dudes who would do boxing matches and he was kind of Ripped and in like even though he was 40 and one time late at night I was about to go to sleep and he posted a picture of himself in some corporate thing So I added him and wrote We were having this conversation earlier today that you're definitely on the juice that you've been writing for a long time Only I didn't at triple triple G Loma chanko i added gennady golovkin and the the middleweight champion remember that guy luke and i tweeted at you actually love kin

i actually tweeted at gennady golovkin we had a conversation today that you're definitely on the juice and then put my phone down and went upstairs to go to sleep and something stopped me on the way up the stairs like wait was that did that go through did that actually happen and it wasn't that random boxing fan who who i was heckling his picture it was at gannati golovkin i could not have deleted that thing fast enough and then thought i was gonna end up on deadspin luke uh i've not had anything like that but i've had boogers fall out of my nose on air. I've absolutely farted on air. Probably had two, three dozen times. What else have I done?

That's gross. That's pretty gross. Yeah, it's gross. It's gross. I had Pepto-Bismol for today's show, so I'm good here. But yeah, probably that. Probably just like the SBDs I just leak out on set.

I did a bunch of those when you and I were on MMA beat together oh come on that that's disgusting I once went on a date with the girl Luke I should have brought this up during the worst date segment last week she had told me of this story on the first date that in college um somebody threw a cat an empty keg after a rager and it hit her in the head and knocked her out, and she lost her sense of smell from it. She had that rona.

I later tested that out in the car. She was right. She was right, Luke. So wait, did you take her out to eat? Yes, yes, yes. But if you can't smell anything, doesn't that affect your ability to taste as well? I didn't go that far in the conversation luke all right i wasn't in it for that okay got some real winners there you pick up

huh yeah those were good yeah you're like you're like carol baskins you know the husband she allegedly murdered just putting a handgun in the car and telling people to get in yeah so uh yeah all right this is already i'm sure i'm sure i'm sure she's the weird one. I'm sure it's not him. No, no. All right. Then I think that's it, right? I think that's it for the questions. Yeah, it's so weird to do a show without you rushing me through it so you can get to your

next job. This is a great pace, Luke. Yeah, well, I got bills to pay, my friend. I don't know about you, but I certainly do. With that in mind, take it away, BC. Your chance to steal the show. Yeah, look, you know what we do each week. We scour the globe for the good, the bad, the ugly, the in-between.

It's have you seen this shit, Luke? And I've got some great-ish this week that don't involve dongs, that don't involve weird stuff, that just involve fights, Luke. I got a trio of insane MMA finishes to kick us off. You ready? have you ever heard of a fellow named samuel ilnicki neither have i luke but check out this amateur ko on golden ticket promotions good lord luke tell me a better head kick ko than this and watch the tooth come out oh dude oh wait what was the soul come out what was he doing he just bends over at the waist

look at him oh oh god i mean that's about as good as i know this is amateur regional mma so anything can happen like a fan man could drop in the the floor could open up and they could fall into a sinkhole but look at this oh god dude i that is regional i tell people all the time i don't know what's going to happen with it now so it's a little bit i guess it doesn't matter anymore but dude 20 bucks for a regional mma card that might be the best money you can spend in mma dude did you have all seriousness you ever cover a bellator card and they have the post limbs after the main event dude they're just dragging bodies in and dragging them out those are some mismatched ish you want to see dead bodies go check that out but this guy oh man luke i thought

we weren't allowed to show death on the show all right let's roll this might be the this might be the greatest submission i've ever seen since uh demetrius johnson and uh in that that other guy uh what was that guy's name ray oh the old flying armbar yeah who did my and he maintains it and he crossed his feet wow luke that's i think i've seen this one before that's fan freaking tastic luke yeah that's good body control uh and then to go back to your back like that is better and the guy fell out of the ring, too. That's amazing. Ray Borg. That's who I was thinking of.

Ray Borg. Thanks for helping me out with that, Luke. All right. I was not listening to you. Sorry. All right. Well, Luke, here is actually, I think, the greatest knockout I've ever seen. It's from 2013.

Somebody sent it to me. This is Colin Reuter against Gerald Fike. Watch this. Oh! Oh! Boo! Arrgh! London Bridge is falling down.

I didn't think a body could react like that. Oh, my God. Did he break his neck, too? Dude, he looks like he got hit by a car. Oh, Luke, seriously. No, like, in all seriousness, that's the greatest knockout I've ever seen. Tiger uppercut. Colin Reuter, move over, Terry Adam.

This guy's been sent to hell, Luke. Wow. All right, all right. Let's roll on. Let's go to the pool, Luke. Let's see some water slide action. You ready for this, Luke? You ever wait at the bottom for your kids to come down?

Ooh, nice duck right there. I guess he's going to get hit by a big old fat. There we go. Boom. Oh, yeah. That's damage, Luke. That is damage right there. This was like my mentions three weeks ago.

Yes, your ducking flying knees. Look at the head go. Oh, that's a KO. That's a KO. Indeed. Get the deep sea divers out. Well, I'm really sad you don't have anything today from CTE Society. Well, we'll see.

We could be. Remember I gave you that barbershop clip last week where you can go get the fire haircut, Luke? Check out this. Would you be down for this? I mean, it's primitive, but it works. Dude, is he like, is that what I think it is? Yes, that's a hammer and chisel. This is very CCCP.

I like this. Dude, where do you find this shit? Have you seen this, Luke? That's got to hurt, though. I don't know. Is that hair? It looks like Spanish moss they're just getting off getting off yeah i don't know if it's racist showing this but this is interesting all right uh let's roll on here luke uh you ever been to a

wedding and there's a pool involved and then somebody's got to make a splash and steal the day take the attention away from the bride it's always probably some old hag grandma had a couple too many uh gin and tonics well grandma no grandma does she not understand that she's not jesus yeah yeah yo jesus can walk on water i am am with Jesus. She has no idea, Luke. No idea. Oh, God. That's got to be embarrassing. Wow. All right.

Hey, you know what's embarrassing? I was at a wedding where Grandma started to dance, and I think she had a heart attack. That was terrible. Ouch. You know they put blindfolds on kids at parties and give them a bat and let them hit a pinata, Luke? It doesn't always go well. Let's check out this Christmas party. Oh, God.

That kid got it right in the pills, Luke. That's fantastic. Oh, yeah. Well. All right. That was like, this was like my mom when I came home with a report card that didn't have A's on it. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

You disgraced old Marietta, Luke. Now you must pay cutter style. Yes. Yeah. All right. All right. Let's go to part two on this. This kid's got a death wish. Everyone uh this kid's got a death with everyone at this party's got a death wish check out this kid in the orange shirt luke

bro that is the stick dude they gave this kid like dude they gave this kid a legitimate weapon from kung fu they give him like ninja turtle shit why don't you just hand him some nunchucks while you're at it is that girl in a wooden wheelchair look what is this dude where the fuck do you find this shit honestly all right let's go to the new hero of this segment that hold on hold on lit fails is the name here's your buddy luke here. Here's the MVP of this segment. Check out his latest trick. There's a drone and a balloon, and that's a hot cup of coffee on his crotch, Luke.

Can he pull this off? It's not like he's got much to lose. Oh, well done, Luke. How many takes, bro? How many takes? I hate you. All right. Let's go to Celebrations Gone Wrong in MMA as we wait for the decision here, Luke.

Let's see if this fighter... Check out this guy. You did not win. Oh wow luke oh he's better because he didn't get the decision he didn't get the decision he's so mad he could slap a b oh he did he just did luke wow yeah that's uh wrong place wrong time like turner here yeah this guy billy joe saunders over here wow all right luke let's roll on to coffee a lot of people forced to make their own coffee at home trying different things luke i've got a uh additive here if you're out of cream would you try out tesco's nut milk

i hate you okay i guess not guess not. Rolling on, Luke. I have to give credit, though. Do you ever go and get a high-priced coffee and these baristas? They can do magic with this, Luke. One time they did a flower for me. Another time they did, I don't know, looked like a bird of some kind. Check out this fantastic artist at work here.

Looks like a heart. Maybe an arrow. Maybe. Oh, God. Oh, God. And it has jizz, too, you sick fuck. Look, you got to represent art when you see it. I mean, what is art?

Are we art? Is art art? That's fantastic right there. Look, wow. Okay. Dude, and you've got the nerve to be like i can't believe people think i'm the dick guy you're the dick guy in a you're more the dick guy than the guy who wanted to blow people to get uh water at the fire festival

first of all don't don't ever disparage andy king's name on this show because we have a staff full of andy kings as you found out hey luke um check out this over the weekend there's there were actually some fights. There was boxing in Nicaragua. There was MMA somewhere deep in Asia. Check out the COVID policy here. Are we going to see this at UFC 249? We'll just spray down Tony Ferguson before the fight?

I don't think fumigating fighters is the way to do this. It could just be me. I mean, Trump did say just drink a little bit of that that uh that lysol you'll be all right right yeah about that okay all right hey luke let's close with this i had oh check out this um a lot of a lot of people doing these uh tandem videos see husbands and wives are like flipping each other over but you got to be careful check out these two ladies luke ball rest in peace tombstone pile driver luke boom bro you gotta flex your core fat lady you gotta flex that core speaking of pro wrestling luke let's close with this i had no idea until this quarantine

that there's a thing called pancake art. Are you aware of this? Again, another hit from Lit Fails. Okay, check out this pancake artist, Luke. This is incredible. Can you taste what this guy is cooking right now? That's Fast and the Furious star Dwayne The Rock Johnson. Look at that brilliance, Luke. You can go down a long rabbit hole on Instagram looking up pancake art.

Do you respect this? I mean, I know once you eat it, all that work has been worthless, but check out the flip on this. No? You're not in on that? I mean, no. The pancake just needs to taste good. I don't need portraits of Jesus in them.

All right. Well, there's different kinds of pancake art. Let's go to the next one. Check out this kid. This is the type of pancake art I would do, Luke. I respect this kid a lot. Shout out to this guy right here. That's the kind of stuff I would do when I'm small.

But that's crazy stuff. Let's go to more traditional pancake art. Check out what we got going on here. Is this going to be some lady's flat ass or something no no no no no this is just uh so you gotta flip it and all right hey dude you have you are you seriously i don't know who you are. You will text me how upset you are and how unbelievably weird your DMs have gotten. And then every Monday comes around, I'm like, is this the Monday where he figures it out?

And then you just lean right back into it. Bro, I have no sympathy for you. Oh, look, look, there's no fights. There's not a lot of content, right? You know what I mean? We're getting the shaft often, so why not just go with that, right? Dude's got a tripod going on. Well, that's that guy that's that that adult film actor that's all

over the memes lately he passed away but he left a a very big impact on the world luke i see that he did hey by the way i had aaron pico on my podcast the other day i asked him about that horse you know you know that you know you know the guy I'm talking about? Yeah, what'd he say? He's like, yeah, he puts us all to shame. But he's been doing it. Look, he's been taking care of horses, mucking the stalls, riding them, dancing. That's how he's been getting through this time.

All right, shout out to Aaron Peacock. How are you like, yo, I know you're going to try to come back in Bellator and fulfill the promise of being the most touted prospect in mma history yo how big is your horse's cock is that what you asked him i was like look if he's got a big d let let me search it right you know wow okay yeah yeah yeah all right hey look i think it's time for your other job right i mean come on right not exactly just yet uh with exactly just yet. With that in mind, it's time for Odds and Ends, BC. What do you got for Odds and Ends? I do want to quickly shout out this.

Luke, did you ever hear of Contenders Clothing? They're doing something right right now. They make all that old Rocky paraphernalia and Karate Kid. They're donating 10% of their profits to a fund that pays for fighters' bills. Not Terrence Crawford, but know undercard guys walkout bouts those guys obviously not getting paid now if you order this t-shirt luke you can see going the social distance 100 of the profits go to the fighters they're looking just really to like pay somebody's uh cable bill for the month or their heat or their whatever i respect that shout

out to contenders clothing odds and ends this week, Luke. The hell was I going to talk about? You remember? Oh, yeah. Sergio Martinez. Sexy Sergio. The Argentinian king. The former middleweight champion of the world. Hasn't fought, Luke, you might remember, since that 2014 stoppage loss to Miguel Cotto when his leg fell apart, his career fell apart.

Well, there's been rumors of him coming back for a while. He finally did an america uh an out an interview with an american outlet current batia's ask the experts podcast they had a translator sergio's 45 luke and he not only wants to come back he wants to rematch julio cesar chavez jr and he went as far as saying that they're adversaries but they could be business partners in this where he thinks if he can get Junior, who's had plenty of trouble outside the ring, to commit to no drinking or drugs during the entire training camp,

this might be a turning point in Junior's life and would get them both back in the ring at the highest level. Luke, he came to the sport late at like 19 or 20. He held up very deep into his 30s. He relies on quickness and athleticism. Would you buy in on a Sergio Martinez comeback at 45 he had one of the he had a spectacular career for how short it was no because at the end there he couldn't take a bunch of a punch anymore right I mean it wasn't chinny per se but no he wasn't I mean he got dropped in every big fight but he wasn't chinny

his knee fell apart his knee fell apart he was physically frail as well just about to say I don't think he was the same. So do I believe in his 40s he's got some kind of a comeback in him that is reasonable and worth taking seriously? No, I do not. I love that man, though.

Okay, Luke? I love him. Oh, he was great. He was great. When he was around, he was awesome. But, you know, no. All right. For my odds and ends, Campbell,

did you watch episodes three and four of the last dance did you see it uh i did luke and it's freaking fantastic like seriously i didn't put out 50 tweets like everybody else but it's freaking fantastic it's it's the best one that ever happened to our quarantine i want to talk about episodes three and four where they talk about the pistons first of all lifting weights in the weight room, which I liked. But really, it was Rodman that stood out to me. And what I loved about what they showed with Rodman was, here was this guy who a lot of clubhouses and a lot of organizations are going to want to try to make somebody conform to something.

And to an extent, you can get that from some people some people can buy into a program can buy into a way of living can buy into what you expected to behave like that's not altogether a bad thing but when you've got somebody who that's not going to work with and they're a tremendous talent there's no point in being it's not going to work and what i loved about what the bulls had was they kind of had their own vibe. They kind of had their own way of doing things. They certainly had the triangle offense as a strategy on the court, BC. But they recognized, look, Rodman's going to be his own guy.

But when it comes time to produce, he can produce, especially after that turning point he had with that one bad game when he came to Michael's room and he smoked a cigar together. And they just, they let him be what he was going to be. And it turned out that was the best way to make it work. BC, I liken it to you where when I had plans for this show, showing dicks was not really a thing that I had at the top of the list. But you come along and you're like, we need to show more dicks. And I'm like, I don't know.

But I realized, BC, like Rodman i if i let you let your creative vision fly it actually makes the whole show a lot better and casts a wider net and together as a team we can go further so thanks for the dicks so are you jordan in this scenario or are you phil jackson and who is jay i'm like the rest of the bulls organization i don't know i'm just sort of saying i don't know what place I take. But just to be serious for a moment, the best organizations are the ones that find ways to get the best out of their players. And they do it together.

You do have to conform a little bit, right? They let them go on a 48-hour vacation versus a full vacation. Vacation slash bender. Slash bender. But at the end of the day they found ways to just let rodman be rodman and it worked well like rodman luke when when i when we turn on this microphone my life may be mayhem in the seconds leading up to it but when that red light goes on luke it's championship level that's what i bring to the table that's what he brought to the table during that um this stock is so fantastic and you know it's just we all lived it it's like i'm i knew all of this

but but it's just the the way it's constructed the way it's presenting it you didn't really realize what a traveling carnival that team was you know you thought of them as just the super elite team yeah they got crazy rodman but to see all those machinationsinations and breakdowns and everything Scotty went through emotionally during that season of trying to ask for a trade and all that is so interesting. But the best part about this doc, by far, Luke, is the fact that Michael's allowed to say the F word every three seconds. And shout out to Ron Harper, who dropped a very good F word. And it's not just swearing for the sake of swearing. Michael Jordan legitimately thought he was going to be looked at badly if you remember heading into the stock he actually did a little bit of damage control and did some public interviews talking about it Luke I think he

actually looks better off than we ever could have thought he doesn't necessarily look like what he probably was back then and I read the Jordan rules great book that really outlines that 91 title season where he was a dick to people like Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, almost gotten fights. We know the famous fistfight with Steve Kerr that happens later, but I've also read a fricking fantastic book called when nothing else matters by Michael Leahy, which chronicles Jordan's two years with the Washington wizards, where the management of that team used him just as much as he used them to get back on the court and live out his dreams once more but in those books i mean he's a maniacal you know

just perfectionist leader in this doc he's just a really honest inspiring guy and i know that might sound crazy for a dude who's sitting there with whiskey and a in a cigar just ripping people but i feel like he's coming across as so transparent and real and everything he's saying is always backed up by what he's trying to do make everybody better get the best out of everybody and win i know we're not seeing the video of him destroying people although he took scotty brow to the woodshed there in episode four publicly but um i somehow respect him even more and i was never a jordan lover or hater in terms of a fan i'm a boston southwark's fan so i never really fell into that but this really like i come out of each episode

look not even kidding like where are the where are the free weights i think i need to get back into uh finding out how great i can be something i think i'm already doing yet i could be even more i think i need a michael jordan in my life that's all i'm saying look okay i think my marriage would better i'd be a better father michael are you free let's do this thing okay i could use some of you see a second wife i could use some of that too i loved how they got into the weight room and how it transformed everything and toughened them mentally and physically dude is it me or does michael jordan's liver is it ready to quit on him his eyes are so jaundiced and yellow have you noticed that?

Yeah, there's some mileage there, Luke. My man, and I love to drink, but my man must absolutely get busy on the bottle. His eyes appear to be totally just, I mean, glassy at all times, yellow. Wow. Michael Jordan must get, I mean, sauy at all times. Yellow. Wow. Michael Jordan must get, I mean, sauced up chilling in the cut.

Unbelievable. Do you think it's weird that they're not talking about his first wife at all? Like it's not even a topic of conversation in the show? I bet some stuff. All these documentaries, like there's nothing that's off limits. If the dude is participating in the documentary,

there's going to be some stuff that's off limits. It's just know you can say what you want to the audience but it's not true do you agree though that what makes this doc great is that michael's performance as a talking head in the doc is a 10 out of 10 like they gave him the opportunity to to roast isaiah and he crapped all over him and horace grant calling all all the 91 Pistons straight-up bitches. Or was it the 90? I forget which one. Calling them straight-up bitches. And then showing how they wanted to interrupt the bird to magic to Michael sort of destiny that the NBA had set out.

But more than that, I just love, like, this is one thing you don't get out of MMA in the same way. You get a little bit of it, but not nearly the same, which is when you can build the right team and, you know, Kraus deserves some credit for that. He got over-aggressive with it, but some of the decisions he made were great. It's like Jordan had to take us, Jordan had to have a realization with a triangle offense that it can't just be me winning the dunk contest and the scoring contest and defensive player of the year. That's fun, but it's really not going to get us to the next level. I have to make everyone around me better. And so there was a sacrifice there.

But also, Jordan figured out how Pippen works. Pippen just needs someone by his side to cheer him on and to be a team player with him. And he needs to see that and feel that. And then his level of play comes up. And he had kind of figured out what each person needs to get the very best out of them and to get that chemistry working together.

We've been telling this to MMA fans. Like, if you don't watch other sports, man, you're really missing out. Pick one that you want. Maybe it's basketball. Maybe it's not. But watching him think through the process of making that chemistry work people always talk

about team chemistry in the news as something that either they have or they don't and what you see when this documentary is it can be hard to produce you have to figure out how to do it and the very best ones find ways to make the workflow easier but they really they really pay attention to the context that have to be in place and what they have to do to make it possible for everybody else. I've really enjoyed that part too. Yeah. And for as crazy as Rodman is, and you love the Carmen Electra stories and all that, they perfectly identify and encapsulated how smart he was and how hard he worked watching video, studying angles. And, you know, for for michael who is as you saw is willing

to drop a load on anybody at any point sorry drop a deuce load would be gross um his respect for rodman's mind and uh focus when it matters uh you saw the re-endorsement that it constantly was for michael to to allow some of that eccentric eccentricity and craziness wow jay jumping right in not only wanting us to move on but he thinks that that doc is awful i'll say this dude dude carmen electra is 48 and a 10 out of 10 are you not blown away at how how aging just does not apparently seem to affect her i wish i was blown away luke i wish yeah i mean that's just that's just, that's frigging fantastic. Yeah. Wow.

Any other takes? Any other takes for episodes three and four? I had other takes about this, but Jay just got in my ear and, you know, I don't know. Yeah, whatever. Hey, Jay's got a new documentary out. You know, you want to plug it or just plug him? What's it called? Jay, you got a new doc, right?

Jay? Jay? Okay, it's being edited right now. It's called On Board. It's about, you know all those people like Jay Luke who have like platinum executive status on every single thing ever and they like fly around the world for free?

That's what this is about? Rich people? That sounds like a great idea when there's 20 million unemployed Americans, Jay, to feature the lifestyles of the rich and famous. Jay, how are you going to defend that, bro? All right, all right. They can't hear him.

They can't hear him. I get it. People, yeah. Nobody cares. All right. BC, we should tell the folks, number one, if you want to get Showtime, very simple. Go to Showtime.com.

You can put up the, figure everything out. If you like it, free trial. You can keep it. If you don't, you can bounce for 30 days. It's all yours. Lots of great stuff there. And in the meantime, you can follow and subscribe to us. We're on Instagram.

That's where the questions go on Sundays. We've got the YouTube channel. Like the video. Subscribe. Any other messages, bc you want to get to the audience we don't have a uh you know live boxing yet hopefully it'll come back after the ufc but showtime this friday night 10 p.m eastern on showtime going to show some errol spence junior classics you know him luke the badass unbeaten unified welterweight champion remember when when he went to England and took down the great Kell Brook? Remember when he defended his title against Lamont Peterson? You can relive both of those.

Do you want to relive those with me? Maybe crack a cold one, Luke? I don't want to put you on the spot here. I don't know what you're doing Friday night. We'll see. We'll see. I have to figure my schedule out. But it's certainly a possibility.

Okay. But that will be on Showtime, I think, what, 10 p.m. on Friday, if memory serves? 10 Eastern. Memory serves you well, if memory serves? 10 Eastern. Memory serves you well, Luke, okay? All right. Well, BC, one of us has another job to get to. Another one of us doesn't. So I'll just say this.

Great show. Good talking to you. We've got a little something planned for you guys in the middle of the week. We're still trying to work out some of the details. So stay tuned for that. Yes, very good. And for everyone on the show here, thank you guys so much for watching. Like the video,

subscribe to the channel. Until next time, may all of your gains be loyal. We'll see you next time.