MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - UFC 265 Recap: Gane Beats Lewis, Aldo & Luque Win | Ep 190

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

Episode 190 of MK is here and Luke Thomas and Rashad Evans do a full recap of UFC 265. Ciryl Gane easily defeated Derrick Lewis in the heavyweight main event. How impressive was the win and can he beast Ngannou next? Also, Jose Aldo defeated Pedro Munhoz in Saturday’s co-main event. Is Aldo still a viable title contender despite already losing to Petr Yan? Plus, Vicente Luque made short work of Michael Chiesa with a first-round submission. Does he deserve a shot at Kamaru Usman’s belt? Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit: store.sho.com   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat  To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Rise to rewards with the BMO Eclipse Rise Visa Card. Terms and conditions apply. Reveille, reveille, donks. Look at us now, tip to tip. This is our life. This is our passion. That's the spirit we bring to this show. I'm Luke Thomas. I'm Brian Campbell.

This is Morning Combat. Well, my daughter's not in the house, but we're ready to make some noise just the same. Hello, everyone. On this 9th of August, 2021, welcome to Morning Combat. My name is Luke Thomas. I'm one half of your hosting duo. I'm from CBS Sports and Showtime. I join you from the capital of Los Estados Unidos right here in Washington, D.C. And I have a different co-host. BC got a tan, grew a beard, changed his hair, just changed everything. No, I'm kidding. Of course, it's Rashad Evans, the winner of the Ultimate Fighter, former UFC light heavyweight champion, and many other accolades.

What's up, Sugar? How you doing, man? What's going on, LTA? We know BC can never be this cool, man. Come on, man. Come on. I know. He always is like, oh, I've got BDE. I'm like, dude, you are the last candidate. Whoever would have that, and people would recognize it. But okay. He is missed. He is on vacation. Where are you? Are you in sunny South Florida? How's South Florida these days?

Yeah, sunny South Florida, man. It's beautiful out here. The weather's still nice. It's been a little bit of a rainy summer, but I'll take it, man. I mean, it gets hot in the summertime, so these showers actually cool off the day pretty good out here. You know, for people who live close to the beach, you don't go to the beach very often, do you? No, I don't. Sad to say it, I don't. And every single time I go, I bring some people in town, I say, man, I need to go to the beach more, but I just never do, man. By the way, do you ever get back to like Niagara where you, are you from, from that area or like, how does that work? Yeah, I'm from, from Niagara Falls, New York. I haven't been back since everything with COVID. It's just been kind of crazy to go up to New York since that, but I was

going on a consistent basis. I home you know as the older i've gotten you know i've grown to miss home a lot more now so it kind of holds a lot more of a sentimental value than it did before yeah fair enough well listen we got a lot of stuff to get to here we have ufc 265 results to go over and a whole lot more so thumbs up on the video if you're new here or whatever and subscribe if you haven't done this already. We have a live show Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and we do a lot of stuff in between. Thursday live chats, Saturday post-fight shows, and interviews galore. You can see how you can follow us there on social media. If you want to email the show for dead wrongs or for fan

submissions, morningcombat at gmail.com is the place to go. If you want to try Showtime to catch the next Bellator show or the next Showtime boxing show or anything else Showtime offers, go to showtime.com. You get a 30-day free trial. If you like it, you can keep it. If not, you can go pound sand. And Rashad, I almost called you BC. Rashad, can you hold up your shirt just a little bit for us

because I believe you have an official MK shirt on. And I do not. Yeah, he does. See that? Yes, I do. I finally got one in the mail the other day it's a little bit uh a little bit big for me but you know what i'll rock it i normally like my shirts extra medium just to kind of show off the the vegan cuts but i guess i'll make do with this one they had the you know they were they were watching old tape of you fighting uh the hillbilly heartthrob what was his name brad

imes brad they were getting that size Rashad some t-shirts. That's exactly what it was. Hey, I'll take it. You know how long it took me to get this shirt? I was thinking about making some of my own, but that would be bootlegging. I'm not for any bootlegging. All right. Fair enough.

Let's see. Did we miss anything? Oh, I think we have some interviews. I believe BC spoke to Manny Pacquiao and sings karaoke with him which only bc would ever elect to do you can catch it on the youtube channel i think he's got one with errol spence jr if you want to check that out as well so youtube.com slash morning combat where you're watching this right now just dig around we don't just do the episodes we do a lot of supplementary content and bc is doing a lot of interviews on the boxing side. Okay, Rashad, you ready to get this going?

Let's do it. All right, point number one is where we start. Let's talk about the main event for UFC 265. Now, I did a post-fight show, but I've not heard from Rashad, so obviously we'll give him the floor first. But, Rashad, I don't think it's unfair to say that Cyril Ghan easily defeated Derek Lewis in the final there. But let me ask you this.

What impressed you most about what Cyril Ghosn did? I mean, his movement, to me, stood out. I knew going into the fight, his movement was pretty good, but I didn't think it was that good. And when you start to break down his movement, it is, it's something to behold. And it's really something that, you know, a lot of people take note of, especially fighters, um, you know, the way that he's able to stay light on his feet the whole time at a nice consistent bounce, but at the same time, never allowing his feet to leave the ground. So he's not without you know feeling the ground but

then at the same time he switches his stance and he operates at this length where the guy has to reach a little bit extra to reach him but he gives the illusion like he's a lot closer and that illusion right there it makes it so that he can dart in and out and just pop you with the jab and then once the jab starts going he he starts breaking down the leg, down the foundation. But his transitions from southpaw to conventional is so fluid because he does it while he's striking. So the opponent never really sees that he switched stances. And now whenever a guy switched stance in front of you,

you have to come with a different defense. But when you don't realize a guy has changed a stance on you, you're still in the same defense and that opens you up for other things. So, I mean, it was just picture perfect, great movement, showed very high IQ just because the simple way that he didn't get greedy with one of those areas of exploiting Derek Lewis. He took his time with it. You know, he really took his time with it. You know, he really allowed the fight to unfold. At the same time, he avoided those big strikes.

You know how hard it is to absorb the power from someone who has that kind of power of Derek Lewis without grappling, without locking up in any kind of way. What he did was just completely just drawing Derrick Lewis to the point where his, you know, with the in and out, the stops and starts, it ruined the timing that he needs for that big, powerful shot. But more importantly, it just kept him in a position of just kind of holding that shot until it was pretty much ineffective.

And then the fact that he took the legs out of Derrick Lewis so then he didn't have the base to land that big overhand right, he really just took them apart systematically. He shows an IQ in the heavyweight division. He shows some wrinkles in the game. And after watching him fight Saturday, there becomes a point when you realize that a certain division has changed a bit. And watching him fight, you realize the evolution of heavyweight has definitely changed.

So let me ask you a question that's going to sound a little odd, but it's something that I think a lot of people might ask. And I've got a couple of things I want to read to you here in just a second. But first things first, we all agree that Gon has a high fight IQ. We all agree he's a very good athlete, and we all agree he's well-trained. But there are a lot of fighters who are good athletes that have good coaches and have a reasonably high fight IQ. Why don't we see more people employ some of the distance management kinds of things that he does?

Why is heavyweight still so rock'em, sock'em? It's a hard thing to master, to be honest, and especially in the heavyweight still so rock'em sock'em? You know, it's a hard thing to master, to be honest, and especially in the heavyweight division, because, you know, it doesn't take too many punches to really disorient somebody where you want to go in and go for the finish. So a lot of times as heavyweights, you're battling with yourself. Do you want to get the quick finish off of rocking somebody, or do you want to take more of a patient approach, you know? And it becomes hard because you'll find yourself in a patient battle. But then you hit him with that one shot and then you see guys jump in.

You know, my boy Greg Hardy got caught with something like that when he fought Tai Tuivasa. Caught him with a good shot, rushed in and got caught with the left hook. So it happens over and over again in heavy division. Now, the difference is just being patient and understanding the fact that, okay, I have the gas tank to keep this pace going. I have the gas tank to take my time. And that's where Serial Gone just kind of takes it to another level

because he knows that he can go at that pace forever. He knows that he's not going to get tired. So there's not that whole impetus to go out there and try to destroy once he feels somebody's just a little bit hurt. You know, it's interesting. I want to read you some numbers here, Rashad, that I have found to be incredible. One of the things that stood out to me, I wonder what you make of this. Everything you said, certainly I would no position to challenge and I wouldn't, I echo all of it. But there was something else that really could have, there's another side to

the equation. It's one thing to sort of focus in on all the things that Gahn does in terms of movement you can measure or punches that land or what punches he's going for. The other part is he is obviously doing things to set himself up for offense, but it has this way of also neutralizing his opponent. He's not neutralizing them just through the strikes, just through the movement. It's a lot of the fakes and the feints and the angle change and the smothering and whatever else.

Derek Lewis couldn't get going. Do you know how many strikes he landed, Derek Lewis, in the first round? Total. Man, I mean, probably maybe two or three. Yeah, three. Three he landed in the first round. Gone 26. Derek Lewis landed five in the second round.

Gone 23. Now, okay, Derek Lewis got a little bit better in round three. Eight. But Cyril gone at 49. 49 to eight, 26 to three. I'm being dead serious. I cannot recall the last time a interim or otherwise a UFC belt was up for

grabs. And there was that kind of striking differential in all three rounds. Can you, I know I can't, but you know why that, that happened was because, you know, it was that he caught him.

He got him watching. He got him watching. You you know when you have somebody like cereal gone and that's another thing where his great movement comes into play is because when a guy has movement like that and he's constantly switching stances every single time they move every single time they switch stance that's an adjustment that you have to make and you can sit there if you're a counter fighter like derrick lewis and just be waiting all night to land that perfect punch but never see it coming because you adjustment that you have to make. And you can sit there if you're a counter fighter like Derek Lewis and just be waiting all night to land that perfect punch, but never see it coming because you don't see a look that you like, you know, and that's where it comes where you're the opponent like Derek Lewis, where you have to go and then start to create something, start to just touch here,

touch there, and then eventually land that big shot. But I don't think Derek Lewis is in that stage of his development as a fighter. Um, but it was just truly just the fact that he just got caught watching so i was gonna say that i mean part of it like when this fight was over i was like you know what i don't even want to bag on derrick lewis not merely because you know it feels mean to do that after somebody loses but like just in the reality of things he was asked to do stuff here that I don't think he was really he didn't have the skills to necessarily do to like corner gone or or shorten the distance or you know put the fight on his range what were the skills that he has shown in previous fights that would lead you to believe he could do that against gone especially

in the big cage not the small cage there was really nothing but you mentioned something I want to go back to here and I always bring it up whenever you're on the show, Rashad, because it's one of my favorite KOs in UFC history. You're KO of Sean Salmon. So you hit him with the big head kick. It closed the show. How many times did you see a look that, in your words, you liked before you threw that?

I didn't really see the look that I liked for a while. I threw the head kick a few times before that, but it just wasn't at the right timing. And I knew I kept getting it wrong, but I felt like it was there. So it took a little bit before that timing was there.

Like I lost the whole first round because I was looking for that kick, because I was looking for that big shot. And I felt it was there, but I just couldn't, I didn't see the look that I like. And every single time I rushed it, I found myself getting taken down or found myself, you know, defending something that he was doing. And that's where you just have to, you know what, you have to go at some point. You just have to be like, you know what, I'm going to anticipate, I'm going to feed him the movement that I want in order to anticipate the reaction that I want to have.

I want to ask you about the bouncing style of Gon. So when he's further away, not when he's right in front of you, obviously, but if he's a little bit further away, let's say kickboxing-ish, long range, and he's bouncing up and down, he's deciding what he's going to do, he looks a lot like Wonderboy, a little bit, right?

I mean, there's some similarities, obviously, between that, oh, his hands will be down. But when, you know, first of all, he doesn't have a karate background. He has a Muay Thai background. And he does a lot of things differently once he decides to get going. How would you say Gon's style is similar to Wonderboy, but then also maybe a little bit different? I would say it's similar in the fact that they do something with their feet, which is keeping their feet live.

Like if I keep my feet flat and stationary, that's dead. You know, they're not dead. They're not in motion. But if I bounce on them, I keep them live and I keep them ready to react and move at a moment's notice where I don't have to get them going again, you know? So that's one thing that he does really well. But he also does the same thing with his hands too. He keeps his hands live too. They don't just stay up here. They're kind of live, kind of in motion. That way when you see something coming, he can just catch it like he's holding mitts. So that's one thing that he does so well. And you don't really see a lot of fighters do that effectively, but he just has a great knack for it because he's got a nice rhythm,

a nice pace with that rhythm, and he throws people off with the timing that he has with that rhythm it's almost like he's is he's jump roping you know and he's getting a time he's getting a time and then he sees the guys off beating them but there's a jab but there's a kick but there's a stand switch all those different things he can do at a moment's notice because his feet are alive and his hands are alive and i gotta say this is something that stands out to me about him, Rashad, and I don't know what you make of it. You see some guys who come up and, listen, everyone loves a big knockout. Everyone loves the, or at least you have to respect anyway if you don't love it,

the 13-second KO Conor had on Jose Aldo where it's just immediate impact, boom, sleeps him. But what is so a little bit terrifying about Cyril Ghosn is that, one, he doesn't take hardly any damage, as we mentioned. Two, when he fights at his pace, he can do it for 25 minutes, no sweat. But the other part is he's just so patient. Like, in the first round, okay, I read you the numbers. And there's a big gap in the numbers. But it wasn't like in the first round Derek took a beating or something. Even in the second round, he didn't take, he lost, don something even in the second round he didn't take

he was he lost don't get me wrong but he didn't get like really hurt he didn't get dropped he didn't get cut he didn't get you know he didn't just you know he was shaking on his foundation he just kind of got out pointed a little bit you know I'm sure the strikes hurt but it wasn't tremendous now he took a beating in the third round obviously but this is my point it's like the frog in the pot uh not allegory but theory Rashad right which is if you put a beating in the third round, obviously. But this is my point. It's like the frog in the pot, not allegory, but theory, Rashad, right? Which is, if you put a frog in the water, but you turn the heat on, it's not boiling yet. The frog's like, I'm good to go. But by the time it's boiling, at that point, you're too late.

He doesn't give away rounds. He won the rounds gone. But he doesn't immediately try to put you in trouble. He makes a ton of reads. He takes his time. But once he's got the information he's looking for, dude, the avalanche comes downhill a million miles an hour. And there's really nothing you can do at that point because he knows where he should be. He knows what you're going to do.

He knows what you're going to react. And he opens up with many different kinds of strikes that he's kind of kept sheathed through the first and second rounds right very true very true he's very disciplined in that respect you know very very simple with the ones and the twos but not even throwing combinations just kind of like picking you apart just getting him in there really fast and just looking for reactions you know he's just just gathering all the data that he can from everything that you do and it seemed like he has such a great vision just a broad vision of of when he sees his opponent and what needs to go next. And then once he gets a guy a little bit, any kind of way, not throwing up, shelling up too hard against the fence, then he allows the combinations to start to come in. And then at

that point, when the condomations come in, it's already over because you're like, man, this dude is all over the place. I feel like there's three people in the octagon with condemnations come in, it's already over because you're like, man, this dude is all over the place. I feel like there's three people in the octagon with me. You know, he's kicking my leg. He's up here. He's in my body. He's on the side of me. I don't know where to fight him.

I'm a cover up. I can't do anything about this. You know, it's really, really rare to see such an athlete, such great movement, and I mean, just IQ. IQ that you don't really see with somebody with the experience level of a gun. One last thing, and I want to move to a different point here, but you had mentioned that he keeps his feet live. Okay, but someone like Adesanya is like a step and slider. Now, he's moving. He's managing distance. He's making reads. But he doesn't bounce. So how does he get away with it?

Because he does the leans and because he's got good eyes? What would be the difference there? Well, I would say the difference is, you know, with both of them, they never allow their feet to totally leave the ground. So as long as their feet is on the ground, rather you kind of have that bounce, you have the slide, your feet are still alive. But with Israel, he's more of a trap setter. And that's what the slides are used for. You slide

out the way, then you go on the other angle, the guy doesn't see you at the last minute, then it's a trap that you set for him. But with God, he's more of a fainting, I guess, of controlling the range type of fighter with the way that he uses his bounce in and out. And it also plays in there with the stop and go. You know, when you have a guy that fast and athletic, now not only using a bounce, but then he has to stop and go. Now you don't even know in a counter when to counter because when you think he's going, he's not going.

And then you find yourself punching in the air. And we all know a punch that you swing in the air that does not connect drains more energy than a punch had it connected. So that's the thing that that's the biggest difference between the two of them. But it's just, you know, the traps at the set. Adesanya is more of a trap setter, whereas in the headway division, Ghan is more of just a sparker. He's going to get the jump on these guys because he's giving them the illusion of range. I saw some people criticizing the effort from Derek Lewis,

and I get it. It's high-level pro fighting. It's high-level sports. If you come up on the big stage, this was something he had won four fights in a row. He had knocked out viciously Curtis Blades to get to this fight. So if you

fail on that stage or if you don't win on that stage, there's obviously going to be some critique, some of it fair, some of it unfair. But to me, I said at the beginning here, Rashad, he was being tasked with something to win in this fight that previously he had not shown that that was a part of his skill set. He's got big power. He's patient. He's experienced. Fair enough. He's got definitely potent weapons. But I didn't expect him to win this fight. I didn't expect him to make it even all that close, and I still think that the things Derek Lewis does well will still be viable against a range of other opponents. Just not Cyril Ghosn, not right now. Did you feel like, again, he didn't win. He didn't look all that great, but did you feel like, I don't know, Derek Lewis could have been better?

I don't really buy that argument. No, I think that he was the best that he's going to be. I think that there's a level that he still needs to gain in skill. I mean, you know, he's grown so much and we've seen him grow and develop right before our eyes. And it's been phenomenal. But we still have to remember there's a lot of growth that he still has to gain. You know, he's just now, you know, really starting to unleash some of his athleticism.

I think that, you know, once he gets more comfortable releasing the athleticism that he has, because you see some of the amazing kicks and amazing jump spins and stuff like that with Derek Lewis. But it just doesn't seem like he has a methodology behind throwing those big techniques. It seemed like they're just big techniques out of nowhere

without having a rhyme and reason setting them up. When he understands the rhyme and reason and why and how to use those big techniques, those athletic movements, then he's going to transform his game. But he also has to learn that every punch doesn't have to be a knockout punch. Sometimes, and especially in the heavyweight division, you don't need to throw the punch to knock him out. Just touch. If you touch him and you can touch him, pretty soon you'll be able to land that big, powerful shot that they don't see.

And when you throw in a punch with that kind of power that you don't see, it's a knockout KO every single time. Yeah, which is what Gon does, right? Touch, touch, touch. a punch with that kind of power that you don't see it's a knockout ko every single time yeah which is what gone does right touch yeah touch touch and then once he feels comfortable that's whenever anything else comes yeah yeah absolutely absolutely that's when you drop the bomb and that's how you should do it and at the heavyweight division you you can go a lot further your gas tank will a lot further you can be more uh efficient if you're a little bit more economical with the pace that you throw your punches.

No doubt about it. All right, let's go to point number two here. We stay with Cyril Ghosn, but now we know what the stakes are. Whether you agreed with it or whether you didn't, this fight, the one over the weekend, was for the interim heavyweight title. As such, Cyril Ghosn becomes the official interim UFC heavyweight champion, which means he is now on a collision course for the existing weight class champion, which is Francis Ngannou. Now, BC, it's funny.

I texted the coach of Francis, Eric Nixick, over at Extreme Couture. And when I had texted him, this was, I mean, I don't know, midday my time. So he's three hours behind yesterday. He has said he'd already watched five hours of film study or so, spent five hours anyway, with film study on Gon. So they've got a great team over there. They know what they're up against. Nevertheless, what is your early impression about how Gon versus Francis might go? And in particular, what do you see within Francis's existing skill set that leads you to believe perhaps he could make it competitive or retain his title? Well, I mean, you know, the power for one, you know, is something that,

you know, cannot be understated. But more importantly, I think that, you know, Francis has such a high learning curve. You know, this guy learns so fast. And, you know, to think that, you know, we're going to have the same Francis that we had last time we went out it would be it would be false for us to say that because that's how fast and that's how many tools he's putting in his toolbox at all times this guy learned so fast and um it's going to be interesting how he approaches this fight because after watching the film sparring the film footage between them sparring, I've seen a couple rounds and whatnot. And granted, it's training, right? You're not going 100%. And even the way

that they were moving, it looked as if like they were working with each other. They had like a nice flow. You know, that's the kind of, that's a perfect kind of training partner you want. Somebody that you can have a nice flow with and get some really good looks at and work the timing. But more importantly, work that cardio base, that base that fighting you know that you don't normally get to work on in the live sparring session so after watching all of that sparring I kind of noticed that you know yeah they kind of had some you know techniques here this one had better than that one but what I paid attention to and Keaton was who had to come out of their fighting game more.

And based off of what I've seen, I've seen Francis having to come out of his fighting game more. And granted, he was able to do so in sparring. But in a fight on a in a five round fight, when, you know, there is hard blows being thrown and he's throwing hard blows and he's exerting energy how can you keep that pace you know what i'm saying so that's one thing to me that kind of spelled that you know francis you know could be in a little bit of trouble this fight not saying that he's going to lose but at the same time this fight is something different than he's ever had to prepare for because I don't think anybody he's ever trained with is that comfortable with him. You know, Mike Tyson used to beat people before they got in the cage just with the anticipation, the fact that, you know, this Mike Tyson, he can knock me out.

Well, because these guys know each other, Francis doesn't have that advantage over Cedro Ghosn. He's going to go in there feeling comfortable with him which can spell another problem for him because he people make mistakes when they're afraid and if he's not making mistakes and he's cool calm and collective and he's moving like a cat out there stances and this i mean it can be it can be a hard one here's something else that sort of stood out to me when i go back to those numbers okay so maybe derrick didn't land on him a lot three five punches around but here's something else rashad none of those were really clean like dude gone doesn't get hit clean very often now the good thing about francis is as you know he doesn't necessarily have to hit you clean to send you to the land of wind and ghosts but

still if your numbers are down and within those those numbers, those aren't clean shots, boy, that's a hard way to try and win a fight. How much of the development of Francis after leaving training with Gon, because obviously he's had several camps at this point with Extreme Couture, is there enough of a difference there? I think there may be enough of a difference, you know, because it's all about the way that Francis approaches the fights now. You know, he's a lot more cerebral in his approach.

You know, in his last fight with Stipe, he showed that he can have the patience. He showed that he can, you know, touch, and like I was saying before and not just try to throw every single power shot you know every single time throwing a power shot those are the things that's going to be able to help them in a fight with Serial God where you can't unload on every single punch where the guy does a good job of making you miss a lot when a guy does a good job making you miss a lot okay fine you're gonna have to implement your own fakes, feints, movements, but at the same time, you're going to have to touch and then be economical and see that big punch and land it when you can. But I mean,

it's going to be a tough one. You know, this guy, Cyril Ghosn is phenomenal. And here's the thing about it. He's with Francis, his old coach he knows you know what francis does his strengths his weaknesses you know there's some things that cereal gone bring to the table that's just better than francis from from what we've seen his whole ground approach everything he does on the ground you know it could be higher than francis francis probably has most definitely grown on the ground but is it going to be at a rate that can compete with somebody like serial gun yeah um i i don't know i don't know if you were if you were training francis you know and you were thinking about how to program the training camp where would you be spending majority of your interest you got to work on everything i get it but like you know for example we'll talk about

vicente luque here in just a few he was saying for this camp with michael chiesa he was it was his worst camp only because he had to wrestle constantly constantly constantly constantly so how would you program a camp for francis given what he's up against with zero well the first thing you got to go for that movement you know you really have to make him pay a price and you have to try to tax those legs as early as possible or make them think that you're going to tax those legs as early as possible so you know whenever he's in position throwing leg kicks uh you know throwing fakes and faints of your own but without you know with the fact that you know this is francis right and you know you got to be careful with his gas tank and stuff like that so you don't want to make him go too far out of his way but at the same time every single time

serial gone switch his stances that's when we're attacking. We're not allowing him to get comfortable for a second. The minute he switched stances, we're throwing. The minute he kind of settles in front of you, we're throwing those John Jones oblique kicks right to the front of the knee. Those are the kind of things that you need to put a halt on Cyril Ghosn because when he gets going with that movement it's it's it's over so in other words it's okay true or false true or false

if you don't attack the movement of cyril gone basically he can't be beat i mean from what i'm saying i don't i don't think so i don't think so just because i mean he he makes guys he leaves guys in such a bad position when they're trying to punch him trying to chase after his movement they're they're out of position their head is over their feet they're stretched out they're just not in a good position to land anything so yeah they have to take care of his movement right away and the other sort of X factor here, as you well know, we were talking about it, is that these guys used to train together, and then Francis had a falling out with the guy who was the trainer,

Fernan Lopez. Again, I'm not sure exactly what the nature of that is, but Rashad, you know falling outs and fighting old teammates better than most of us. Who would it wear on more? Would it wear more on Francis, who would it wear on more? Would it wear more on Francis or would it wear more on Cyril? It wears more on Francis. Francis is the one who's severed from the relationship.

And you always remember the people that you came up with. You always remember the people who was there with you when you didn't even know you were going to make it, but believed in you. You always remember those people, and they always hold a special place in your heart. And when you feel as if like you've been wronged by those person, wronged by that person, then that's just, that's, that's something internally that's hard to get over in yourself from that standpoint. And then you put on top of it, you have a fighter who's now trained

with that guy. And, you know, it does, it does play with your mind a bit and it does bring you into the fight a little bit more emotional than you would be had not that situation occurred. So, you know, Francis could be coming in there like, man, you know, feeling a certain kind of way, emotionally speaking about it. How long did it take you before you were able to, like, talk to, I don't know, Greg Jackson or Mike Winklejohn after everything went down the way it did? It took some years. It took some years and it took a lot of introspection, you know, to see where where I was wrong. You know, you really can't forgive anybody until you're able to kind of, you know, see where, you know, see the part that you played in it. And it took a while for me to be able to see the part that I played in it. But once I was able to sit back and just see the part that I played in

everything and just kind of, you know, really just appreciate the relationship for what it was, you know, because granted, no matter, you know, if they, you you know screwed me over or not I won a lot of fights I was able to achieve my wildest dreams off of the work that they helped me achieve you know they were there for me and that can never be taken away so I didn't want to tarnish those memories by being mad at them because in a sense it would have decayed a piece of myself you know did they ever come back and be like yo rashad we kind of fucked that up sorry did they ever do that nah they never they never did that they never did that but you know we remained uh remained pretty cool they they asked me um you know mike winkle john asked me to you know to sign and put a picture up on the wall

at the gym at jackson gym so i kind of felt like that was, yeah, I felt like that was a way of making amends, you know, you know, with, with the great story that, that we've been able to, you know, achieve at Jackson gym and a legacy that we, you know, we built, you know, it just, it made me feel proud that I got a chance to, to, to be in such a program like that, you know, from the beginning of it. So, you know, it's something that happens in growth, and in time, I think Francis will get there. Before we move on to the other fights on this card,

and there were many good ones, one more thing about Jon Jones. Let me give you a theory, Rashad. I don't know that what I'm about to say is true, but I don't want to dismiss it either. It goes as follows. If you look at the last few fights well more than that even sort of the last chapter of John Jones's run at light heavyweight and there may be many factors that explain this there was a pretty big drop off in

performance he looked really good in the second Gustafson fight I'll give him that no doubt about it I mean he iced that one in a vicious way. But against some of the other ones, you know, your Santoses, your Reyeses, your Smiths, and I'll include some other ones as well. I actually went through and I measured his takedown accuracy and takedown performance. It dropped off a cliff relative to how it was in his early UFC reign.

Now, there could be a lot of factors that explain that. Did he train enough? Did he care about wanting to beat those opponents enough? Did he kind of phone it in in the middle of the fight? I don't know. All I'm saying is, I don't want to assume automatically that he goes to heavyweight and then just runs the table. I certainly take it possible he could do just that,

but rather than just assuming that's exactly what's going to happen, I have a bit more of a wait and see approach. I want to ask you how he matches up first, but before I do that, is that a fair, do you think my trepidation about automatically assuming he's going to kick everyone's ass at heavyweight is right or wrong? I think it's right. You know, when you look at John's last fights, as you said, you know, it was it was very close.

And it was, you know, due to the fact that, you know, his cloak of invincibility has been shattered. You know, people weren't afraid of him anymore. And they were really challenging him in places where they weren't before. And they were really pushing the pace and, you know, all these different things that John just wasn't used to before from a challenger. And now he's going up to heavyweight, you know, and before I was like, OK, he's moved up to heavyweight. And these guys, you know, he had the advantage because he moves really well. He has a fight IQ and, you know, he has all these intangibles. But he's given away a lot of those intangibles. You know, his reach, he's given away.

He's given up, you know, his size advantage. He's given up his power advantage. He's given up a lot of things that he didn't have to worry about at light heavyweight. And then now with a guy like Cyril Ghosn, he may be giving up the movement advantage. You know, a guy like Cyril Ghosn, he moves better than Jon Jones. He's more creative with his movement with Jon Jones than Jon Jones is. So those are those are things that Jon is going to have to come into the heavyweight class renewed. He can't be the same Jon Jones as he was at 205. And I think maybe this is why it's taken him so long to kind of make this jump to heavyweight

because he has to reinvent himself. But from watching John Jones hit mitts recently as a heavyweight, he doesn't look as fast as he used to. He actually looks like a legit heavyweight with the speed now. You know what I'm saying? So he doesn't have that speed anymore as it seems from just watching him hit mitts

that he did when he was a light heavyweight. So Jon Jones is going to have to come into the heavyweight division totally a new fighter. Yet again, I don't know how he'll do. He might go in there and win the belt. But Stiebe, Francis, Cyril Ghosn, these are unique challenges that didn't exist like this five years ago. Something four years ago even. Stiebe was obviously there.

But in this sort of polished modern version, it's a, this is a, it's not, it's just, it's a tough climb. It's a tough climb. I mean, I'm going to tell you this. These challenges didn't exist when John Jones made the decision to move up the heavyweight. That's how fast the heavyweight division is changing.

Fair point. Okay. So let's get to that co-main event, which just unbelievable. So Jose Aldo defeats Pedro Munoz in the co-main event. I have to say, I'm so just impressed by Aldo Rashad. And I said this on the post-fight show. He's got a little of what happened to Rich Franklin.

Now, Rich Franklin is a different fighter, different era, different career, different skill sets, different realities, even on why he got pushed into certain divisions at the time that he did. But basically, when he found out, Rashad, as you remember, I'm sure, he realized after two fights with Andy, he was not going to be a middleweight champion as long as Anderson Silva was around. So what did he decide to do? He took some tough fights still at 185.

He took some tough fights at 205. Sometimes he won, sometimes he lost. But he was committed, and he beat some good guys even after it was clear he was never going to beat Anderson Silva. I feel like Jose Aldo is doing something a little bit similar. Now, this is the question to you, though. I thought he was just going to take tough fights at 135 after losing to Peter Jan and be like, hey, he still wants to just do this because he likes it but after beating Pedro Munoz the way that he did thoroughly I would argue do you think it's fair to say he might have another title run in him yes yes yes yes um Jose Alda turned back

the hands of time on Saturday you know and it's very rare to see a fighter at that stage of his career to do such a thing but what he he did, he went back to the basics. Went back to the basics. Straight punches right down the middle. None of those looping punches, but straight down the middle, fast. When you see a guy who's getting older, you notice that his legs are the first to go. The legs are the first to go. Then his ability to absorb a shot takes a hit.

He's not able to absorb a shot, but then even the ability to recognize when the shots are coming, they start to fade. But Jose had an A plus on all of those scales. And then his IQ is showing more and more as he, you know, as a fight goes on you know because the first couple rounds he wasn't kicking he waited systematically until he had Pedro Munoz broken down with just his ones and twos and just a simple movement and then he started dropping that leg kick in now the the leg kick that Jose Aldo has has been something that's been missing out of his game on a consistent basis since his reign as the Dominate Featherweight Champion. You know, he just kind of stopped kicking. But it seemed like he's found that rhythm again to start kicking again.

He's found the time again to start kicking again. And he's got himself in a position where, honestly, beating a guy like Pedro Munoz the way that he did he shows that he's right up there man he's right up there two things that stood out to me about uh this fight one good thing about Aldo one thing that I thought Munoz just didn't you know listen I'm not gonna sit here and be like Pedro Munoz did this wrong but I can make this argument first thing I would say is this Ald Aldo immediately, when they first faced off in that first round, just checking everything. Not allowing Pedro Munoz to get any kind of lead, any kind of, you know, rhythm going with the leg kicks, first of all. That, I think, played a role for some of

the things later on that you had pointed out. The second part is, BC, if you go back and look at the tape study on Max and how he fought Aldo, one thing he did, he did it different ways in the two fights, but he was pretty consistent about it, which was you got to make Aldo turn, constantly turning, turning, turning, turning, so he couldn't set and throw the way that he wanted to. Man, Munoz was right in front of him and not, I mean, he would angle off a little bit, but not really. I just feel like if you don't, if you don't make Aldo uncomfortable or to bare minimum challenge his ability to anticipate and throw and then get out of the way, right? Because If you don't make Aldo uncomfortable, or at a bare minimum, challenge his ability to anticipate and throw and then get out of the way, right? If he can just stand right there and wait on you,

man, he's going to be a hard guy to beat. He's going to be a really, really hard guy to beat. I feel like Munoz and the game plan they had, once the leg kicks weren't there, they didn't go to any movement-based sort of strategy, and that made the fight more or less, I'm not going to say unwinnable, but pretty close to it. Yeah, I totally agree. You know, another thing to add to your point, you know, Jose Aldo, he fought like the bigger fighter. When he fought against Peter Jan, he didn't fight like he was the bigger fighter, you know, but in this fight, he fought like he was the bigger fighter. He looked massive in there against Pedro, just the way that he was holding the space.

He was really doing a good job of holding the space, but more importantly, just kind of backing Pedro down and just doing so in such a fashion where he looks so much bigger than Pedro. And if he fights that way, he fights and be the bigger fighter at 135, he can do to other people at 135 what Max Holloway did to him at 145. Interesting. Now let me ask you about this because I found this stat. It's not even really a stat. It's just a fact. And it just blew my mind for a couple of different reasons. Okay, first things first.

So since Jose Aldo fought Conor McGregor, his record is 5-5. I mean, I think he had like one loss prior to that. It's kind of amazing how, and those aren't chumps, by the way. I mean, those are good fighters. He's fighting every, two of the five losses are Max Holloway, right?

So, you know, he's not fighting Scrubs by any stretch of the imagination still. You know, he's got a 500 record since then. But let me really boil your brain. Conor McGreg, he's got a 500 record since then. But let me really boil your brain. Conor McGregor has a 3 and 4 record since then. So neither of them have distinguished records in terms of numbers since they fought each other.

But even Conor has a worse record, at least numerically, than Jose did. In both, actually won titles within that 5 and 5 and 3 and 4 run. Is that not just the wildest sort of factoid you've heard in a while? Yes, wild, man. It's really wild. It just kind of shows you, man, the sport is just the rate that it's going.

You have two top dogs like that scratching and clawing just to stay relevant, just to keep winning. And they're trading one for one. They're going on streaks where they're losing and uh that just goes to show how fast this game is changing you miss one or two seasons of this fight coming back forget about it you're coming back to a totally different ball of wax and you have to almost start over again um in terms of who you'd like to see aldo fight next he had mentioned Dillashaw. Now, Dillashaw got the win over Sanhagen somewhat controversially, but okay, he got it. He obviously looked good despite the difficult circumstances that he was facing. But he is going to be off for a little while.

I don't know exactly if Jose wants to wait for him or not. Let's assume that's not necessarily in play, that you could matchmake whoever you wanted in that division. Do you like the Dillashaw-Aldo fight? And if so, why? And if not, who else would you like to see him fight? I like the Dillashaw-Aldo fight. You know, I think that it would be a good one for Aldo to really show that he's there. You know, he's a legit contender.

But I also like, you know, the Rob Font fight. I think the Rob Font fight would be a good one. You know, I think that, you know, Rob Font brings some challenges that would really, you know, show if, you know, if Aldo's really serious about the second round. Because here's the thing about it. If you put him in there with a T.J. Dillashaw, then you kind of fast track him, you know, to, to being to that championship title contention, which would be good at his age. But if I'm the matchmaker, I want to make sure he's ready. I want to make, I want, I want to kind of build it up again, you know, and going against a guy like Rob Font, that'd be huge. There's no loser in that situation because Rob Font is phenomenal.

You can put him in a title shot and if Jose gets past him, then you've really built yourself up for, you know, a championship run once again. so I think the Rob Font would probably be the best choice for this one but at the same time that Dillashaw fight would be money too Dillashaw fight would be huge the only thing is I don't know what's the division's a bit of a mess because they got to run back the Aljo and Jan thing there's a lot of different ways you could go I actually feel like a Sanhagen matchup I wouldn't say is unwinnable for Aldo. At this point, I think Aldo deserves at least credit to think he could win the title again, perhaps,

or at least go on a big title run, as you indicated. But a guy like Sanhagen, who moves the way he moves, and I think would be getting Aldo sort of constantly guessing. I don't know that's the best fight for him. Dillashaw might be some of that, but Rob Font's got the big jab. Is that why you would want... What is it about the Rob Font fight in particular that you feel like Jose beating him potentially tells you a lot about, other than obviously Rob Font's a quality fighter?

I mean, just how Rob throws punches in the pocket. Rob's combination striking, the vocabulary of his striking, you know, is on another level. And, you know, he's hungry. He's shrieking. He really wants it. So for him to, for Aldo to beat a guy like that would truly show that he's mentally tapped in

and wanted the same, but more importantly, show that he can go against these guys who are fast who are quick and who really wants it because there's there's something about competing against a guy who's never had a taste of that championship you know in their minds they think it's one thing but once guys have already had it they kind of already know what to expect so competing against a guy who's never had a taste of that championship, it brings a different kind of challenge in itself. Those guys are really, really hungry. And to really meet that intensity, you've got to be as hungry as well. Yeah, which makes what he's doing now just so remarkable.

He looked – that's the best he's looked since what? The Frankie Edgar rematch? Yeah, that was vintage, vintage Jose right there. Yeah, it really was. Unbelievable what he's able to do. And by the way, who said this? I don't know if this is true or not. TJ Dillashaw is older than Jose Aldo.

Did you know that? No, I did not know that. No, I didn't. I did not know that. It feels like, I remember distinctly, Rashad, I remember distinctly where I was when Jose Aldo beat the, I mean, he was a great fighter too,

but when Jose Aldo really put the beat down on Mike Brown, took his back and pounded him out. I remember you choked him out. I can't remember exactly how it went, but he just completely ran the table on him. And, you know, that felt like a lifetime ago and he's younger than t.j dillashaw isn't that wild it's nothing i just think about the wc days and just him just just racking people up and just moving at a different rate and just now

he's still going he's still still throwing punches with that same i mean when he throws punches like you see people throw punches they're moving and they're throwing them pretty fast. But when he throws punches, it looks as if like he's throwing them with a different kind of intensity. Like his intentions are different. They look just a lot faster and a lot meaner when he throws the punches. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's just me. Also, those delts, those shoulder delts, boy.

He's got delts like nobody in the game. Pillows, pillows. Pillows. I'm jealous. All right right let's move to point number four this is a gentleman you know a lot about how about vicente luque he had a at least on paper and certainly we all have respect for michael chiesa but on paper he had a very tough fight against chiesa and i don't know how he did it i mean guess we do, but he just turned the tides right when he had to. He got his back taken, found a way to reverse it,

and then as Chiesa goes to stand, he gets locked up in a bravo or a darts choke, the second one he's used to finish off an opponent in as many UFC fights. Rashad, the question to you is, with that win, is he deserving of a crack at kamaru usman's belt um not with that win i mean it was a good win it was a very impressive win but i will say i mean i would like to see him get one more i would like to see him get one more uh but i mean with that win i mean you know you know how i mean michael kiesa he's he's, and he's shown so much growth in the 170-pound division, and now that he's believing in himself, and he's an analyst, and he's breaking down fights,

and his whole mindset has shifted, so he's growing at an exponential rate, but then to have himself, to go against a you know, get caught up with the feet, you know, get caught with some combinations, then take it to the ground. But then for Luque to survive a really tough test against a Michael Chiesa, Chiesa gets your back and his lights out. You see him do it over and over again. But, I mean, Luque just shown so much growth all over the whole entire, you know, in his whole entire game.

His whole entire game is, you know, his standup is sharp. His, his jujitsu is sharp on another level. His, his wrestling is sharp. This kid is, is on another level as far as, you know, his growth is concerned, but I don't think he's ready yet. I don't think he's ready yet. I would like to see him get one more. I mean, the, the champ with Kamaru Usman, you got to keep feeding him. He's got Colby Covington next. And I would love to see maybe a Luque versus, I don't know, Leon Edwards or something. But then at the same time, a Leon Edwards, you can't leave money on the table with Leon Edwards and Jorge Masvidal.

You got to make that fight happen. If you don't, you're just leaving money on the table. No doubt about it. Now, to what extent have you trained with Luque at all? Oh, man. Well, when we did it, they were all black Zayans. Luque, Kamaru Usman, Gilbert Doreno. They were all black Zayans.

And when we put the team together, Luque came over from Brazil, and he was training with us for a few months before. And they did like a whole training camp before the Ultimate Fighter show. So I really got to know him in that space. And, you know, getting to know him and thinking about him back then, it was a guy who was figuring out his game. It was a guy who really didn't know how good he was. And it's been a pleasure for me to watch him just kind of slowly discover that. You know, he hasn't been in a rush to do it.

He's taking his losses and he, you know, he takes his losses and he goes and he works on himself a little bit. He goes, you know, goes away and quiet somewhere in Brazil. He works on his game. Then he comes back on the scene at the gym in Florida and he's a different fighter. He's added some tools to his game. He worked on his deficiency to have him lose that fight, but he's constantly growing and he's a blue-. He's added some tools to his game. He worked on his deficiency to have him lose that fight.

But he's constantly growing and he's a blue collar worker behind it. He doesn't mind, you know, keeping his mouth shut, keeping his head downque, do what they're doing right now is amazing for me because I brought those guys in. You know? You know, what's interesting, too, was Gilbert was in his corner, and there's video of when the submission was locked up, and then they focus on how Gilbert reacted. Pure joy. Total elation. Like unbridled, absolute

happiness for his countrymen, for his teammate, for I'm guessing his friend. I you know the drill. People want to see teammates fight each other, but for some reason I don't hear a lot of people asking us to see Burns versus Luque

even though they're pretty close in orbit at this point. Yeah, I don't think they would even do it. You know, those two are like brothers. I mean, all three of them were pretty close, but Luque and Gilbert always just had a separate, you know, just a different kind of connection. And I don't think it can be broken. You know, it kind of reminds me of how me and Jardine were,ine were. Me and Jardine were in the same kind of boat. I started training at Jackson's gym because Keith Jardine invited me to go and train there after the Ultimate Fighter show. So I've always had this love for Keith Jardine. Even

on the show, Keith Jardine was like my coach. He was showing me all the stuff that Greg Jackson showed him and making me better. And I ended up facing him in a semi. So it's a bond that these two have that, you know what, fighting isn't worth it. You know what I'm saying? And the strength that they get from each other by having each other in their corner, it's almost as if, like, they're so tight with each other, it doesn't matter which one of them get the belt because if one of them gets the belt, then it's going to feel like both of them got the belt. That's how tight they are.

And I'm guessing because they have slightly different, well, not slightly, but they have at this point, they're all both well-rounded, but listen, I'm guessing, I'm guessing Luke A trains with a lot of people just beyond Gilbert on his ground game. But like, has Gilbert like taken him under his wing as like the ground game guru in his, like, how, how, how does, how does that work? Yeah. Gilbert, uh, you know, um, when they fight and when they train, you know,

uh, Gilbert's always a guy who's, you know, he's, he's showing them this and he's showing them that when it comes to the ground techniques and stuff like that. But, you know, uh, Luque is, has been rolling with Gilbert for a long time. So when you roll with somebody that long, you just kind of like learn things without them even saying. You learn their game. You learn all these different things. But Gilbert's just reinforcement like, hey, watch out for this.

Watch out for this. This can be better. This can be tighter. Because Gilbert has really upped his whole jiu-jitsu level by competing in jiu-jitsu while he's fighting. And training at Fight Sport with Cyborg and those great athletes over there. He's getting better and better. And that helps Luque out because he goes back and he brings all that new knowledge, all those new nuances of the game to Luque. All right.

So in terms of Michael Chiesa, it's not a great loss, right? Sometimes losses can be, you look at him and you say, well, you know, good things to pick up on here or there. Okay, he looked big, he had a great authoritative takedown,

but it was a big mental lapse and, you know, he had I'm not going to say a mental lapse against Kevin Lee mental lapse and you know he had I'm not gonna say a mental lapse against um Kevin Lee but you know it was a referee issue but there's been a few times where he I feel against Neil Magny I thought we got a great sense of who he was and like the how how dominant his control could be there have been a few times where you, I'm not saying Luque wouldn't have won no matter what, but clearly there was an error here about scrambling, not fighting the hands, not being aware that this guy's ability to lock up the darts in a moment's notice is, you know, just next level. I don't know, like he kind of brought the ending a little bit on himself.

How do you judge this loss for Michael Chiesa in terms of how you evaluate his abilities? It was a tough loss for him, but watching Chiesa grow, I felt like he reached a point in his growth where he is right now that there's still a lot more. He needs to still turn the corner, as they say. He's gotten a pretty good grasp on himself as far as, like, being able to propel himself to where he is right now. And he's achieved some things that he didn't even know that he was able to do, i.e. the fight where he fought Dos Anjos, RDA, and he beat RDA. You know, that was one of those growing fights.

And at that point, I felt as if, like, wow, I just watched Kiesa just grow, you know, and he had a certain growth even after that fight. But then it kind of plateaued a little bit, you know, and now he needs to hit that other growth spurt. And that growth spurt needs to be in the arena of his standup. You know, he's gotten himself really good at learning how to take people down with working on his wrestling now he's got the ability to take a nice shot and get people into his world on the ground but he's still missing that other aspect of it which is

a confidence in his striking when he has a confidence in his striking and he's able to dictate to pace on his feet a little bit more and feel comfortable doing so, then that will open up another wrinkle for him. But this fight showed that there's still some more wrinkles that he needs to unfold. Okay, well, let me make a point here. So if you look at his losses, he's got losses to Luque, submission. Anthony Pettis, submission.

Kevin Lee, submission. The Joe Lozon one was a TKO, so that's out. And then Jorge Masvidal, not only a submission, another Darce choke. Now granted, that's going back to 2013, eight years ago. Obviously, we're not suggesting he's the same fighter. Is it fair to say, even though he's got a good ground game, that when it comes to the competitive mindset that brings your skills to life, does he have some submission defense issues?

Yes. 100%. So how can it be that you have a great ground game, you have good submission defense, but then when it comes time to show it, things can fall apart a little bit? Well, you kind of panic. That's the truth of the matter. That's the short answer. You panic in there. Sometimes you get yourself in a position and you start to mentally defeat yourself.

You get taken down and like, oh, man, this can't happen. Oh, man, this position. You start to really have that dialogue in your mind and it can be, you know, defeating at times. And when you're not able to make those adjustments on the fly, then you find yourself in positions and starting to panic because of it. And then making poor decisions, making rookie mistakes because you're panicking in those situations i mean granted the transition from what kiesa had uh luke in and then to that darsh choke was very smooth but at the same point at the same time you know kiesa still has to feel like okay i'm losing position this guy's gaining position. Let me bail out and let me neutralize this before he ends up getting the advantage on me. And he didn't do that.

All right. So then let's go to the last of the topics. It's a little bit open-ended, Rashad, which is just about the rest of the card. There were a lot of other fights on the card. There were a lot of other standout winners. to you made an impact and why miles johns man i mean that that left hook to the body overhand right what the beauty the perfection the timing was just absolutely phenomenal i mean like every once in a while you get to see the growth of the sport, you know, and I feel like in that combination, you got to see the growth of the sport because the, the, the, just the, the sweet science of understanding, boom, when I hit the body, he's going to react to that leaves a head wide open. Boom, overhand right. You don't typically see that.

And it was phenomenal. It kind of made me really excited. Yeah, and there was a thunderous shot, too, when it landed. It landed with all the authority he could muster. What's kind of interesting is I've made this point on this show a few times, Rashad. You're living it in a way that I'm not which is you know when you were coming up back then two things you could say one boxing at the time at least the high end level like the the mayweathers in the pack house that was more popular than mma i mean they were doing huge

numbers when mma was still kind of figuring itself out a little bit a post-ultimate fighter the second thing i'd say is at that time, there was some integration. Remember Jeremy Williams, half man, half amazing? There was some integration between the boxing and the MMA worlds. Now you get a lot more of that. You don't see nearly as many boxing heads talking shit about MMA. You still get some of it, obviously, but it's not nearly as pronounced. There's a lot more of it. And I think a big part of it is because they can look at your average ufc bout and and more often than not they can see some really decent respectable striking that wasn't always the case it's a lot more the case now yeah very much so and you know uh seeing guys like miles johns go out there and do that it just kind of show that um you know

the the competency the competency of m MMA guys and really closing a gap with the hands is just, is getting a lot better, you know. It's so much with understanding, because when we do our striking, we got to worry about kicks and we got to worry about all those different things. So we got to learn boxing. And then we have to learn boxing in a way that we can close the range without making ourselves susceptible to any other facets of the sport. So it's really not just us going in there using the whole technical boxing as we learn it. We just have to learn to make the adjustments for MMA, and these guys are kind of figuring that out, and you're seeing the results.

No doubt about it. All right, so for me, and by the way, that was to your point, Miles Johns on the early prelims, and he's hitting combos like that. There's a few different directions you could go. I'm going to go with Jessica Penne. Jessica Penne was somebody who, and I believe she competed at Adam Waite. She did for a time. She was a force to be reckoned with in Invicta, obviously,

even though she had lost the Michelle Watterson fight. And then she had a really bad run. She fought Ioana Janjacek, who mauled her in 2015. The Andrade fight was just a bit of a disaster. And then Daniel Taylor fight was not great. She goes on a long suspension from USADA, even though USADA had cleared her. It was a medication she had used and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then a bunch of fights fell out. And her last fight, you know, she may have gotten gifted one. And certainly her opponent this weekend, Karolina Kovalevich, this was her fifth loss in a row.

You're not getting the best version of her. But I have always said Jessica Penny has a great ground game. She had vicious ground and pound when she was competing at Atomweight in Invicta. You didn't see the ground and pound, but you saw the submissions. And really just the finer details of you could see that this was a person who knew their way around arm bars, arm bar transitions, transition through arm bars into new positions, how to regroup, how to finish, how to hold. She had it all completely done. And to get a win like that after, again, this is not the very best version of Kovalkevic,

but two wins in a row after being out of the sport for basically four years due to a series of different complications, you've got to feel good for her. You've got to feel good for her. It wasn't smart of Kovalkevic to take the fight basically to the ground or at least invite it on the ground in the way that she did. She paid for it, but I have to say, at least someone finally got to see Jessica included, her shine after all that difficulty

and doing it in a way of high competency for that particular exchange. No, you're right about that. The hardest thing in the world to do is when you are in the middle of your career and you have to stop for a long time and then you have to come back because you're not only facing your opponent for the most part you're facing yourself yourself becomes the biggest opponent and trying to find the rhythm trying to find the timing trying to you know push back those feelings of fear and doubt that you may have, it becomes even more challenging when you haven't been practicing that for a long time.

So as somebody who never found the groove after taking a long time off, I commend her because it's not a given. It takes a lot, and she's doing it. Hats off to her. We didn't mention it, but I've got to get your views on the Fazaev and Bobby Green fight, which was the last fight before the main card started. I don't see how Fazaev won the third round, but wow, what a fight. Was that not a banger?

It was a banger. It was a banger. I mean, Bobby Green is one of my favorite guys to watch fight. He doesn't even have to win. It's just that he's one of those guys who can who makes the guy fight. And when I say he makes the guy fight, a fight isn't always about the X's and O's and all the technical aspect. A fight becomes a fight when there's some kind of emotional trigger. When you when you're when you when you have to when you see guys fighting a bit because the guy hit him in the face and then he wants to just haul off and hit him right back

without even calculating the risks involved in it. That's when a fight becomes a fight. And to see somebody like Bobby Green bringing these technical strikers, guys who are normally pretty even keel, into these situations where they're fighting, fighting with emotion, is a thing of beauty to watch because, you know, that's when he has his best chance. And, you know, whenever these fights end up like this, it's just a pleasure for the fans because we can feel it.

We feel that energy being exchanged back and forth, and the fans win. And by the way, well, actually, you know what? I'll just say this. Before we move on to the DMs from Donks, let me remind everyone, because they reminded me, Morning Combat is nominated for a podcast award for the World MMA Awards.

We have been nominated for Best MMA Programming. So if you would like to vote, you can go to worldmma awards.com slash nominees. Yeah. I have no idea how we snuck in the door either. That's pretty good, man. You'll be see, kill it. Uh, all right, let's get to, uh, where we no longer talk to each other about things we're asking. It's when the audience gets to ask us for shot. It's time for DMS from dogs. So as everybody knows, we put up an Instagram post on Sundays,

we solicit questions, and you can put them there. Alright, again, I keep calling you BC, you're not. Alright, Rashad, here we go. From AtPhillyDent, Dana White says you can't write a better script than Gone vs. Nganou. Is that storyline

really better than Jones vs versus in ghanu what do you think yes yes it is i think it's better than jones versus in ghanu because you know you have jones with the the history that he has and being the greatest of all time in in in the light heavyweight division but there's still a lot of intangibles with that how is john going to be at heavyweight you know we don't really know who john is at heavyweight you know and then all the pre all of the the whole like sitting out and you know the the contract negotiation or whatever he's going through it kind of makes it go cold a bit. It makes it go cold a bit. But with Syrio Gan, you have the fact that they have history together.

They trained together. They had a coach together. And all these things kind of add to it. And then you add to the fact that Syrio Gan is a legit threat to Nganou. He could potentially beat him. So you add in another aspect of it too, and for me it just makes it more exciting. So I'm going to disagree with you a little bit here,

which is to say I agree with you and Dana that the storyline as it is existing is better than the story of Jones versus Francis. Jones versus Francis, and again, we're assuming, you know, we're living in a world where we haven't quite seen Cyril Ghosn do the stuff that he's done, right?

Because there's been a bit of heat between John and Francis for some time. But, like, with Ghosn, he just no-sells every bit of controversy. You know what I mean? Like, and even his walkout song was like, please don't hate me, Houston. Here I come out to Mike Jones, Paul Wall,

and who's a slim thug, right? Still tipping, which was great. But, like, the crowd didn't buy it. And, like, at the press conference, he doesn't really say anything. At the face-off, you know, he does his bit, but there's not a whole lot there. The story of the fight of, you know, almost like Francis being the Count of Monte Cristo and getting revenge and then becoming

the champion, but now there's a second coming of this guy from the same camp. That's a better story. But in terms of what would get the fight community really, really, really buzzing, I think John versus Francis would be bigger. If for no other reason, Rashad, then John's a bigger star than Cyril Ghosn. Just a much bigger name. He would sell more pay-per-view buys. There would be bigger. If for no other reason, Rashad, then John's a bigger star than Cyril Ghosn. Just a much bigger name. He would sell more pay-per-view buys. There would be a lot more attention on it. There's still a huge question, we've tried to answer here a little bit,

but about how John would do at heavyweight. Like, we know how Francis and Cyril would do because that's all they are. So to me, you've got, on paper, better storyline, Francis, Cyril. In reality, you've got a on paper better storyline francis cyril in reality you've got a lot more intrigue i think with the community anyway with john and francis i i agree with that i agree with that 100 all right from the real k carter even with glasses i can't read for shit anymore all right in your test i had perfect vision all my life until the last couple of years, Rashad.

It's been humbling. To be 40. To be 40-something. See how it appears upon you? All right. In your estimation, why has Aldo largely abandoned his kicking game

in this later stage of his career? I think it's because he doesn't want to take away his movement. I think he's because he doesn't want to take away his movement. I think he kicks so hard that he's injured himself in some fights and it's kind of really messed him up as far as being able to have the same bounce with his punches. And I think that we've seen him open up in the third round with his kicks because he figured he has a few minutes left.

He's the last round. He doesn't have to worry about if he injures it and then going into the next round with a hurt foot. So when you kick as hard as he does, it does come with some consequences. And when you're throwing with that kind of impunity, you hit somebody's toe, you hit somebody's elbow, you hit somebody's knee. It can really mess you up. Sometimes you throw a kick in a fight and you're just like, damn, why the hell did I do that? By the way, someone asked me this on Saturday night. I didn't have a good explanation for it. You know, obviously the calf kick is all the rage. But part of the calf kick, part of the benefit, part of the benefit is that you can actually stand a little bit further away than if you could throwing the shin to the middle of someone else's thigh.

So it allows you just a little bit more of a way to cheat the distance. Someone asked me this, why does Gon not throw a calf kick? Why does he really seem to just favor the thigh kick? Why? Because he hasn't really trained the calf kick much yet? He doesn't have much use for it? What is it? I think it's the range in which he operates at. You know, I think that he likes to be a little bit closer with that back and forth range because he knows, typically speaking, a lot of his guys, you know, they're not going to

be looking to kick him. They're looking to throw punches. So he's standing more at punching range versus at kicking range. I think if he goes against a guy like Jon Jones, we may see him implement something like that with low leg kicks because Jon's going to use his legs a lot more and Jon's going to try to take out his mobility. So he probably will implement them then, but at the heavyweight division, guys mostly just strike with their hands.

All right, from Jamelia144 This person writes, I mean no disrespect to Derek Lewis, but is he the most unskilled fighter to ascend this high in the UFC? He has huge power, but he doesn't have any standout skills such as jiu-jitsu and wrestling

and Muay Thai, conditioning, or even boxing for that matter. It's sort of a tough conversation to have, but where do you come down on this, Rashad? I don't think he's unskilled. I think that he may fight lazy. I think that there is a lot that he knows how to do, but I think that he knows what he's good at. And because he knows what he's good at, it kind of makes him not do everything else that he could do or know how to do because he doesn't want to get tired. So he's battling himself all the time because, you know, he's kind of fighting at a pace where he's afraid to get tired because he's been tired. When you get tired out there,

it's the worst feeling in the world. And it's something that just stays in your brain. It's a mental scar that is really hard to get past. You see guys like T. Wood who always fight at a certain pace because they're afraid to get tired. So the same thing is with Derek Lewis. He has a lot of skill. And if you ever watch him just do some of the athletic stuff that he do with his spinning kicks, you'd be like, damn, he can do that? Why don't he do it more often?

It's because he's afraid to get tired. So I think he's a lot better than what he shows. I think if he was conditioned a lot better, we'll see a totally different Derek Lewis. Again, also in this fight, this was a bad matchup for him. I think we can all pretty much agree. It wasn't like you got to see the best of Derek Lewis on route to a loss. You didn't get to see hardly anything he could do well,

which is a credit to Gon, but I'm just saying it wasn't really on display. I'd also add, Rashad, the guy's had a lot of bad injuries not like knees exactly but like bad back you know I've had bad backs I've torn discs in my back that I'm not a pro athlete but man that was it's debilitating it's I could barely move I couldn't even order delivery food because I couldn't get off the floor it's a true story I couldn't get off the floor I tore three discs in my back i couldn't even slither to the front door to get food to order um i had to eat leftover halloween candy because it was on the ground in this little bucket for like a day so bad it was so bad so you know remember he's had a lot of fights where he's either had that in camp or in the fight itself and that's gonna you know fuck up his development and what he can show and also he didn't really start this leaves 25 you know that's going to fuck up his development and what he can show. And also, he didn't really start this until he was 25.

That's not too late to do something with it. Here we are talking about him in a title fight, but that's late to hone a craft. That's late to learn a physical language, which kind of fighting is. And so on some level, I understand what the person's asking. On another level, you've got to be a little bit forgiving. Plus, if you have the kind of power he's had throughout your training and your sparring, you've probably turned the lights off on a lot of people. And you're like, well, you know what?

My back hurts and I can fucking punch through an ox. What more do I need to do? I mean, what more do you need to do? And that's exactly it. Because sometimes your greatest tool can be your curse as well, too. And sometimes for Derek Lewis, we see just exactly that. All right. This is from, I don't know how much of a, are you a soccer fan at all, Rajad? I mean, I watch it if it's on. I watch it if it's on.

Do you have a team? No, I don't have a team. I don't even have a team. You're hating over there. All right. From at YBW SAG, whatever the fuck that is. Luke, what are your thoughts on Messi leaving Barcelona? Do you know anything about this, Rashad?

I don't know anything about it, no. He left Barcelona. But you know who Messi is, right? I do know who Messi is. Like one of the greatest soccer players of all time in our day. Yeah, here's the long and short of it. Barcelona is in, it's one of the great clubs of the world i've been to the city itself i've been to um camp new which is their you know their their uh their stadium and um the basically i mean it's a long story but the short answer is

messi has been with that team essentially he was scouted as early as 13 years old he'd been with him for 20 plus years and um they couldn't afford him anymore in part because of the listen to this with messy on the roster 110 of any annual profit went just to play pay the wages i mean the camp is the the the club is in deep financial peril okay so you take him off and now 95 of all revenue that comes into the club goes to player wages so like they're barely fixing the problem but it was a rule with the league and also with uh barcelona's financial situation he agreed to have his money he was going to take a 50 pay cut now granted in his last contract he made close to $600 million, so you know, we're not talking about a guy who's

hurting for money, but even with that, basically the club and the league weren't able to make it work, so he has to go. Here's what I will say. He's going to end up in Paris with Neymar and some other folks, but I'll say this. I'm a little bit sad about it, because as much

as my team is Barcelona's number one rival, which is Real Madrid. So as much as it's great to see Barcelona in absolute fucking shambles that they are, you need a rival, man. You need someone out there that makes you a little bit worried about missing that workout, about not eating right, about the books whatever you whatever you need to do to beat that rival if you don't have them out there it can make you complacent and lazy and and not motivated so like i'm happy to see barcelona the team eat shit fuck them but it sucks it sucks for the league and it sucks to see to not have a rival that you can really worry about

in that way yeah you know You know, I mean, just, I mean, I got stuck when you were saying like the $600 million, I just kind of like, wait, what, what,

wait, what? Yeah. Not by the way, not including Nike money, not in, but that doesn't include that. That doesn't include sponsorship.

Oh my gosh. I know. Oh my gosh. To be a rich soccer player, can you imagine? You're 20-something. You've got tens if not hundreds of millions in the bank or at least assets beyond whatever you could imagine. You're in your 20s, so you're in your physical prime. I'm guessing it's not going to be too, too hard to attract women if that's what you're into.

And they just live their whole 20s and parts of their 30s that way. And I'll never know what that's like. Wow. I'll never know. I mean, I love fighting, but you know what? I mean, you know what? Oh, my gosh. You know what?

Yeah. It was, I mean, come on. Really? All right. Let me ask you a pop quiz. Just guess. yeah it was I mean come on really all right let me ask you pop quiz just guess how many followers on Instagram does Leo Messi have I'll probably say with that kind of money that kind of influence I'm gonna say probably about 15 million 15 you're close it's 245 million what 245 million oh my gosh that's that's like almost as much as

the whole u.s population yeah but he's basically got every mathematically anyway he's got every adult let's say something Something like that on Instagram. That's why I always tell folks, man, if you don't watch European soccer, and someone tells you, like, oh, these two teams are playing, and you don't know anything, you'd be like, who are these scrubs? And then do yourself a favor. Next time you watch and any club team is on, and it's like a reasonably big one from Europe,

like your Manchester Uniteds and Barcelona's and whatever, look up, like, any random player you see on there on instagram and see how many they have they'll have like 20 million 18 fucking 30 million you cannot believe how popular these guys are soccer is truly that sport it really is that sport bro did you see the video of messy in miami trying to leave a restaurant did you you see that? Yeah, I did see that. I did see that on IG. It was bananas. Bananas, man.

He's never played a day in any professional American league. And this dude can't even walk out of a restaurant because obviously Miami's got a huge portion of people who are into soccer. They've got their own soccer team there. But dude, that's a lovely. I'll say this though. I'll take his 600 million. I'm not interested interested in his popularity i wouldn't want to live there no no no i mean you're almost a prisoner in your own success you can't do anything that but the 600

mil i'm gonna buy an island and then just live there my my fight, Highland. Fuck the other one. Alright. Here we go. Last but certainly not least, from Flannels and Jits. Will the four medals in women's freestyle wrestling have a huge impact on the sport across the country? I'm not sure how much you paid attention to the Olympics, Rashad. The men tore it up. The women on the American side tore

it up. Not everyone who we thought was going to get gold got it. Some did so there was you know but in the end a huge huge metal haul and he's asking on the women's side what do you think yeah i think so i mean you know the the women i mean are just you watch them in mma you know they've really found a home in MMA. And I think women's sports in general found a home in one of the most unlikely places being a combat sport. But then you watch, you know, these the Olympics and just watch the standard that these these women are setting and things that they're doing. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And they're really starting to, you know, get the attention that's been, you's been very deserving of them for so long. So hats off to them. Congratulations.

Did you watch the Olympics at all? I watched a little bit of it. I watched the wrestling. I watched the wrestling aspect, and I was very impressed with what I seen with the wrestling. I mean, it was just gold medal after gold medal, but just great, phenomenal performances. I mean, what's his name? Gable Stevenson? Yeah, Gable Stevenson. Phenomenal match.

Bro, do you know he wants to get into MMA? Oh, my gosh. Can you imagine what he's going to do once he gets into MMA? Right. Oh, my gosh, man. I mean, he's kind of got that DC-ish kind of build to him a bit, but just kind of not so barrel-chested in effect. But I mean, he's going to kill it.

He's going to kill it. He does those backflips. I mean, that dude is an athlete. Athlete. Athlete. Okay, so that's it for this part of the show. This is where we just do odds and ends, Rashad. Something small to point out here, but nevertheless important.

What do you have for odds and ends? Ah, Bellator. Bellator 265. You know, we got Gegard Mousasi versus Salter. I mean, first of all, 264, I'm sorry, 264, Bellator. Mousasi, I mean, first of all, 264, I'm sorry, 264, Bellator. Musashi, I mean, jeez, still at it, you know, getting another chance at a title shot as far as defending the title again. And he's going against a very tough John Salter. I mean, Salter, who is just like coming to this fight.

I think he's got a three-fight win streak and very tough grappling, pretty decent stand-up. So it's going to be a good one but bellator is just putting on banger after banger i mean i feel like this organization has found their stride now and putting on some great fights they've they're doing uh they got some good stuff going on for sure obviously after the uh aj mckee and pitbull thing they got some people's attention musashi i do think though has how do I say this I think he's he's about a step or two below his peak which means I think he's a little bit more beatable than folks realize he's still very very good I hope folks understand what I'm saying not saying he's some

chump that's gonna get run over not I mean might even be the favorite guy to win which is fine but I do think like Douglas Lima had a bad performance against him and even in the favorite guy to win, which is fine. But I do think, like, Douglas Lima had a bad performance against him. And even in the end, there was like, maybe he could have turned that around a little bit earlier. And, you know, obviously, Rafael Lovato Jr. is great at jiu-jitsu. But, you know, he kind of ran over Masasi a little bit. I feel like this is a much more competitive fight than folks realize. But the one on that card, now that you bring it up it was supposed to be on the card for the aj mckee and pitbull fight but they had an injury so they moved it

uh ralphie unstats if you pay attention to him i think he's a d2 or d3 national champion wrestler maybe d2 take it on magomed magomedov another one of these russian hammers that comes out of daghestan and just starts running the table on everybody Has a win over Peter Jan, by the way. That one is just, for the bantamweight division. Dude, here's how you know bantamweight has grown up. You can now look at several organizations that have international class fighters in them and their bantamweights are going to be absolutely fucking lethal. That's how good that division has gotten.

Yeah, I mean, I watched medoff uh train over in jersey when i was out there training with uh frankie egger and those guys so you know watching those guys the way that they they train you know it's crazy because they they train with us and then afterwards they have like their own little training afterwards and they do like their like special techniques and you just kind of look like they're playing around and having fun, but they're constantly working, constantly upping the level. So the level that these guys come and they compete at is ridiculous. And you watch them on fight week. On fight week, normally you're kind of tapering off and kind of taking it easy.

Not these guys, man. These Dagestanian guys, they're fighting all the way up until they fight into the cage. It's unreal. It's unreal. Why are they so good? If you had to explain to someone who didn't understand, what would you say? It's their life. They live it. They live every single aspect of life is based in it.

When I lived in Jersey, I lived with those guys in this little apartment that we had. And all those guys would do, they'll come home from training. You know, they'll do their, like, you know, they'll do, like, their prayers and stuff like that. And then they'll, you know, go to sleep, eat, wake up, and train again. They'll just watch and repeat. And that's all they would do. That's all they would want to do.

They don't want to go to the movies. They don't want to watch TV. They're just out getting at work, and they're doggish about it. You know, they stay focused on what they want to stay focused on the fight game the whole time interesting, alright so from my odds and ends it's a little bit

it's you know, less of an issue or I should say less related to the cage Halle Berry's new movie has an official release date, now why do i bring this up well it's an mma themed movie september 12th rashad september 12th is the official date uh well you know i guess that was the 2020 expected release excuse me november 27th sorry i fucked this up royally

i've got the wrong date twice hold on now we have the date uh globally on netflix it's going to come out november 24th november 24th is the date it was supposed to come out september 12th 2020 but obviously uh they decided to push it back for whatever reason partly perhaps due to the pandemic maybe something else i don't know i don't know anything about the movie other than brian ortega was a big part of it and some other mma fighters as well but i did see there was a scene behind the scenes rashad where like holly berry i guess she directed it and was looking at something and in it uh she's wearing invicta gloves she's wearing actual invicta gloves so i'm wondering there it is right there see here where she's looking through the lens

yeah look at her gloves yeah i see i see it i see i wonder if invicta is. So I'm wondering, there it is right there. See here where she's looking through the lens? Look at her gloves there. I see it. I see it. I wonder if Invicta is going to get a big bump. Have you been a part of any movie of this magnitude, even if it's a small part or training or whatever? Yeah, I was in a couple of MMA movies, a couple of MMA movies, but we didn't make it to the big screen. We kind of went straight to DVD. That was back in the day. First of all, I mean, Holly, your boy.

I grew up being a big fan of yours. You couldn't get your boy on it. Here's the thing, man. Seeing Holly Berry in an MMA game and just not being able to... I would love to meet her, man. just you know not being able to you know i would love to meet her man i would love to be able to just sit there just sit just sit back and you know just you know have a conversation with holly like hey holly you know you helped me you know grow up as

a young man you know i appreciate you you know i'll take the movie role for free if she was going to offer that to me you know what i'm saying but i mean that's great i love to see you know she's getting into the whole movie thing with mma and this is her first you know uh first movie that she's directing herself so it's pretty cool that she's making a splash in mma i mean she's a fan and i've seen her even make a comment on like uh on one of the fighters page i believe it was you know she was like uh oh yeah michael kiaiesa. Let's go, Michael. And I'm just like, dang, what if she would have said that to me? It would have changed my life, man.

Changed it. Sorry, bro. That wasn't in the cards. Wasn't in the cards. So normally when BC is here, and you did this last time when I was out and you were with BC, he shows you videos of elder abuse. He calls it, have you seen this shit? You know what I'm talking about?

No one loves watching an old person fall off a fucking skateboard more than Brian Campbell. It's a little disturbing if I can be honest. Oh my gosh. But we're not going to do that today. We're going to skip it. It's Brian's baby and I don't want

to trip up on it. Next time you're on with him, you'll get videos of drunk dudes and old people falling off of motorcycles and skateboards. It'll be fun. It'll be a good time. Rashad, if folks want to follow you, let's put the graphic up. What's the best way to follow Rashad?

But Rashad's preferred method of being followed. Instagram, at Sugar Rashad Evans. You know, you can write me, say what's up. I'll write back. And, you know, that's how I do it. I don't post as much as I used to or as much as I should, but I'm starting to do that a little bit more. But if you write me, I'll write back. I was like, oh, you should post more.

Really? My life is pretty fucking ordinary. Like, why would I? It's hard, man. It's hard to post because I just don't want to post and just be another voice in the echo i want to make it about something when i post you know yeah also like rashad might answer your dms i i probably won't if i can if i can be honest i got too much shit to do i'm not uh if you want to uh, we'd appreciate it. Subscribe right here.

Like the video. One more time on the podcast awards, since I fucked it up off the top as well. You can go to www.worldmmaawards.com slash nominees for best MMA programming. You can go vote for us there if you'd like. Emailing us, morningcombat at gmail.com. You can do that for Wednesday's fan subs, and you can do that for Friday's Dead Wrong.

It's when we always do those. And showtime.com if you want to try Showtime free for 30 days. If you like it, you can keep it. If not, you can go pound sand. And also morningcombat.store for glasses, mugs, Rashad's shirt, things like that. And okay. I think that's it for us today, Rashad. I appreciate your insights, sir.

Thank you. Always a pleasure, LT. Thanks for having me on. There he is. That's Rashad Evans, the Hall of Famer, the former champion, the winner of Ultimate Fighter, and many other accomplishments. I'm Luke Thomas from CBS Sports and Showtime. Of course, Rashad's from CBS as well. And I want to thank CBS Sports, Showtime, Malka. We're going to be out for a while, me and BC, so there's going to be a lot of extra content

coming your way that we've already pre-recorded, so be on the lookout for that. And until next time, may all of your gains be loyal.