MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - UFC 274 Interviews: Rose Namajunas & Michael Chandler

Episode Date: May 5, 2022

Luke Thomas and Brian Campbell have you covered with a pair of UFC 274 interviews featuring Rose Namajunas and Michael Chandler. Brian Campbell and Michael Chandler discuss what he is expecting from an aging Tony Ferguson, which fights he is targeting after Tony and much more. Luke and Rose discuss what has changes since Rose's first fight with Carla Esparza, where she expects to be in five years and how the Jessica Andrade Slam fixed her injury. (2:30) - Michael Chandler (19:50) - Rose Namajunas Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit:morning kombat.store   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Oh, yeah, it is your boy bc the brian campbell this is morning combat i'm one half of your hosting duo alongside luke thomas uh you know it's a big fight week so much going on from canelo returning and boxing bellator paris but of course UFC 274 from Phoenix, Arizona this Saturday. So today on the MK, we got a little audio bonus for you as myself, BC, the Brian Campbell, checking in with Michael Chandler ahead of his all-action showdown against Tony Ferguson. You're going to want to check this out were those two defeats for Chandler the equivalent of moral victories for a guy who creates fire and action everywhere he goes fight of the year potential believes a win can get him back in that title picture it'll be

interesting to hear Chandler talk about what could be at stake for him with a big victory he's using some big names including some welterweights that he's hoping to match up against in the future. On the flip side, we've got UFC women's strawweight champion Rose Namajunas chatting with Luke Thomas. She's got the rematch of the inaugural 115-pound title bout, a fight Rose Namajunas lost to Carla Esparza in 2014. Here we are eight years later, circling back. It's a big deal. Again,

Rose will talk about her mental preparation and evolution since that first fight physical, how maybe even a, uh, being slammed on her head by Jessica Andrade somehow medically fixed her in a few different areas. Interesting stuff to check out there. Uh,

but you know, as always, uh, leave a review, maybe even five stars if you like what you hear right here from your MK boys. I don't think anybody does it better, really. I mean, you're looking at an award-winning combat duo that'll hit you up all throughout the week. Live shows, of course, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. But don't forget, after the big events, we are there this Friday after Bellator Paris, live instant reaction on the MK.

Also Saturday after UFC 274 and Canelo B-Vol come to an end. So we are your leaders in combat. We got you covered. Might even have to run and do a live companion show during 274. More details to come at Morning Combat on Twitter, Instagram. Thank you. We're going gonna toss to this audio now enjoy oh yeah the last action hero looking right at me it's michael chandler

i'll take this guy you know you have that yeah ufc 274 may 7th uh three gigantic fights atop that marquee in phoenix and michael chler, you'll be one of them against the craziest man on earth, Tony Ferguson. And I know I've seen some of your comments this week saying, you know, you know, this is going to be a tough fight. Cause nobody knows what that guy's going to do, but Michael Chandler, that guy's 38. He's riding a three fight losing streak. Does that make him more dangerous because he's that wounded animal? I'll tell you what. Yeah. You back, you back someone into a corner.

That's when that's when they really come out fighting. So I think Tony Ferguson, he's primed and ready for maybe a resurgence. I think Tony, Tony still feels like, you know, in his mind, he's still one of the top guys and you always got to remember, you know, you're fighting the toughest guys on the planet at 155 pounds. So you lose a couple of fights. It's not because you've necessarily lost a step. It's not indicative of losing a step. It's, it's indicative of the, the strength of

schedule and how tough these fights are in the top of the division at, in the UFC. So, you know, look at myself, I've got two losses in a row, but I lost to the two guys that are fighting for a title, just two fights after me on May 7th, we can all win or lose on any given night. I was going to say, you are, you're riding a two fight losing streak yet. No one's talking about that because I feel like this is like, you know, there's no moral victories in this fight game, but those are pretty damn good wins. Those two losses you had, do you feel the same way? I do actually, you know, like you said, you know, moral wins don't exactly pay the bills and provide for the family, but, but they do,

they do give you that little extra energy, that little extra significance, man, the, the love and just support that I've had since I came over to the UFC has been absolutely mind boggling. You know, the platform is so big, the stage is so big, the lights are so bright and it's been nothing but action, action-packed fights since day one, since Dan Hooker in January in Abu Dhabi, and then world title fight after that, and then capping it off with the fight of the year at the end of the year with Justin Gaethje.

So it's been nothing but fun, and I think I've proven myself and solidified myself as a lot of people's must-see TV fighters, and that's what I've always wanted to do, want to make people feel something. And it's going to be no different on May 7th. Vintage Michael Chandler, bite down on your mouthpiece, go out there, put together a performance that hopefully puts out Tony of Tony Ferguson's lights. You came really freaking close to winning the UFC lightweight championship. And I know that you can say the right things in the interviews,

but I also know you're a freaking competitor, man. You live for this. Do you sometimes wake up in the middle of the night and be like what the hell man was that close to being the champion no i think uh no not really because man i i don't even remember who the referee was um it wasn't dan murgulata no merherb dean who knows but i don't remember who the referee won so it was a big time ref and in the sport of mixed martial arts, it's left up to, you know, human interpretation and human instinct inside of, inside of there. There's been numerous times where a ref pulls me off of them. And I'm like, well, that guy had had a little bit left in him.

You didn't need to stop it that fast. It just happens to sport of mixed martial arts. So, um, I, I got no regrets. I really don't. I, I sleep well at night knowing that I'm putting my best foot forward and the cards have fallen how, how they have fallen in my couple of losses, but, um, no matter what the fans know who I am, they know how I fight. They love watching me fight May 7th. People will tune in on pay-per-view and people, and they we've already filled and, uh, sold out the, the arena there in Phoenix. So it's going to be fun, man. I can't wait to make that walk with the draped in the American flag. Uh, is there any negative side to being an action star at this point in your career? Meaning is anybody from a coach to a family member to a promotion official go, Hey man,

your fastball is great. Maybe, maybe take a little couple miles per hour off it. And I'll see what's going to happen here. I mean, the fans love it, but you know, strategy wise, is it always the best move for you? Not always. It's definitely not always the best path to victory. You know, I mean, granted, you know, when we talk about the Justin Gaethje fight, which went down as fight of the year and hopefully makes it into the hall of fame in the fight wing some, sometime soon. Um, I think I was caught up in the moment, man, you, you, uh, you put any human being at the middle of Madison square garden with that many screaming fans. And you look at your opponent with cross-eyed and on roller skates.

After you get them hurt, you start smelling, you'd start smelling blood and, uh, you throw caution to the wind. I couldn't hear my coaches. Couldn't hear anything. Um, don't remember much about the fight. Um, so it just, uh, I was an autopilot and luckily for. And luckily for me, autopilot is wildly entertaining and indomitable. But, you know, I think you'll see, I've shown shades of a, you know, a smart and sharp, composed and confident, more veteran.

And I think you'll see that on Saturday, next Saturday night, May 7th. And, but when I smell blood, I'm coming for the finish. I was going to ask you, is there any way a fight between you and Tony Ferguson in the year 2022 could be anything but a war? And you're saying maybe, you know, maybe it can be a little strategic. Yeah, definitely be strategic. I think I, I think I just out, I think I outclass them in, in all, all facets of mixed martial arts. That's my personal opinion, but obviously everyone has to have their own opinion. And my opinion of myself is, is high. I have to,

I got to go out there and fight a guy in a cage for crying out loud. So my confident in my skillset, my confidence in my, my preparation is second to none. And I think we go out there, touch gloves and, and I, I go out there, look for, look for a finish, but in a calculated manner. And if, uh, if the, the, the leather starts flying, we'll, uh, we'll enjoy that as well. Uh, what, what do you look at as what's tangibly at stake in this fight for you? Honestly, I think there's a couple of different, uh, I think there's a couple of different options after this fight, obviously with, with a win, I think I'd go out

there and beat Tony Ferguson, but I think there's not a mixed martial arts fan alive, a combat sports fan alive that doesn't want to see me rematch Charles Oliveira or Justin Gaethje. So either way, the winner of the main event on May 7th, I think everybody wants to see me fight those guys, especially Justin Gaethje in a five round title fight. You kidding me? That is must see TV is going to be a huge pay-per-view. Um, and if that doesn't happen, I think Connor's coming back. Um, there's some other, other big fights in the division as well as some fights at one 70. But for me, I'm just excited about continuing to find my best self. You know, that's, that's what, that's where I've continued to, uh,

endeavor and tried to become. And, uh, Tony Ferguson is the perfect next opponent, I think, for that. I'm going to go out there and do what I always do, put on a show and put his lights out. I don't assume you're a guy that spends much time looking in the rear view, but when you see your old stomping grounds in Bellator produce a fantastic two-fight series with A.J. McKee, Patricio Pitbull, and we're kind of saying, look, the two faces of the franchise, you know, the one of old and the one of new squaring off. I don't hear a lot of Michael

Chandler in that sentence though. I mean, I didn't see those guys in the Dave and Buster's commercial, if you ask me, all right. Yeah, man, I was, I was a Dave and Buster star, man. No, I just did a couple of commercials. Uh, no, I honestly, I didn't follow those fights. I didn't, I didn't see him. I think I saw the finish in the first one and I think I might've saw a highlight of the second one. Um, I missed them both, but yeah, you know, it, uh, the, the industry moves on quickly, you know, Bellator has moved on quickly. That's great. And I have moved on quickly. That's for sure. So I think I'm in a good spot. They're in a good spot. They're doing their thing and putting on fights, um,

and more power to everybody. Uh, when you look at who you haven't fought yet in your career, and I'm not saying you are not still in the title picture. You very much are. Victory May 7th against Tony Ferguson, like you said, could put you right back there. But who do you crave to fight knowing your ability to make all-time great moments in this cage from Eddie Alvarez back in the day through your last

three? Who are you itching to get in there with? It's a good question. Um, you know, obviously number one goal is, is whoever gets me to the title. You know, I think running it back with Charles Oliveira, running it back with Justin Gaethje, uh, especially with title implications on the line, Connor, the, with, for the, the magnitude of it, it's not the red panning at it. It's not the money.

I want a huge fight in the most amount of eyeballs. And there's a couple other guys with huge names and huge reach inside the sport. Diaz, Poirier, Masvidal, Covington. I know some of these guys are welterweights. I am by no means a small lightweight, nor do I like to make 155. It takes me about 12 weeks of perfect diet, and I'm about tired of it. But all of those are huge fights and big fights. But those are the names on my list, I would say. Um, but ultimately Max Holloway, yeah. I mean, it's hard because he's, I would never ever say anybody's name who

is lighter than me. I would, I would say guys who are heavier than me, but not lighter than me. Um, but that would be a huge fight. Uh, Volkanovski has talked about coming up. He had a Freudian slip and said my name the other day when he met Gaethje, I think. But no, I mean, obviously I want to fight Lightweights and Welterweights. I got no problem making Welterweight because that would be a lot more fun than 155.

Would you have to adjust what you do at all at Welterweight against a super elite, knowing that you're not the tallest Lightweight, although height doesn't win fights? What would be the challenge for you at welterweight? No, I think it's more just the height advantage. I mean, when it comes to strength, speed, power, I am stronger than all those guys in the weight room.

I grapple and spar with all those guys in the sparring room. So I'm not deficient in any of those areas. Yeah, it's just the fact that most welterweights are above six foot easily. But you saw what I did with Dan Hooker. I fought tall guys my entire career. So did Mike Tyson and he knocked them all out. So yeah, I think I'm not talking about a move to welterweight, you know, necessarily and going and fighting for the welterweight gold, but there's some guys who have decided they're not, they're 155 pounders who are fighting at 170 now who just decided not to cut weight. Me, I'll cut weight all day long

when it comes to continuing to move forward in getting a title shot and fighting for the UFC gold. But if it's not online, it's a little bit hard to keep on making that weight. I have to assume cutting weight is a lot like moving. So my dad, who moved us as a kid seven times declared each time this is the last time we're ever moving because moving sucks do you have that same feeling about cutting weight each time well a little bit especially for me because uh i've been

competing in the 150s ish since i was 16 years old i wrestled 152 in high school wrestled 157 for five years in college now i've been fighting 155 for 13 years. It'll be 14 years in August. So, uh, my body has progressively gotten bigger and bigger and bigger. And I keep on coming back down to the 150s, which is not very fun, but, um, I make, I make no complaints. I love my life. I love this game. I love the sport of mixed martial arts and a necessary evil is whittling my body down to 155 pounds or in this case, 156. But, um, you know, like I said, if, if I'm still on the path to winning that title or fighting for that title, I'll make one 55 all day long. I'll make whatever I need to, to do it. I don't know if, uh, if the nine, if nineties music fills up your playlist,

like, like a washed old guy like me, but when I hear, you know, Sublime saying, fucking fight and it's all the same. I've got to believe when you're in the midst of an absolute war, I'm not saying you're having fight orgasms, but I'm saying, is it all the same? I mean, there has to be an addiction level to bring you back to this all the time. Yeah. I don't know. I think I only look back on crazy fights and performances and think, man, okay, that was awesome. But it wasn't just because I loved it. I just, because I knew the reaction from the fans, the reaction from the people have seen me work tirelessly over the last couple of decades since I was a wrestler. Um, and it's more just knowing the future that some fights are going to end up in the hall of fame, or it might even submit me as a hall of

fame guy, uh, what it, what it means to, uh, to create a legacy and make people feel something. But I don't exactly love the, uh, the carnage of it, even though when you go back and watch it, it looks like I am absolutely on cloud nine. I don't exactly love it. Um, but it luckily I have that gene. I think you can't, it can't be taught. It can't be bought. It can't be borrowed. Uh, either you have that savage gene inside of you or you don't. And luckily for me, I have it in droves sometimes arguably too much. Where do you think that comes from? I don't know. I think I've, I've, I've spent a decade visualizing myself as a, as a, as a crazy person inside of the cage. I think I live between two extremes, extreme joy,

happiness, peace, and, and, and servant servanthood and zeal for life. And then the other extreme of crazy psychopath killer inside of an octagon and somewhere in between is who you're getting to talk to right now. Um, but I think I visualized it. I have trained as such. And I think, you know, um, I think it was, um, Ray Lewis said, you gotta be pissed off for greatness. You know, sometimes you're just like, man, I want to, I want to be great so bad that it's so innate inside of me. And it's so coursing through my veins with every single thing that I do every single moment that I'm in the kitchen, eating what I don't want to eat every single mile when I'm running on the, on the road or on the bike, when I don't want to do it, all the sparring sessions, I don't want to eat every single mile when I'm running on the road or on the bike when I don't want to do it. All the sparring sessions I don't want to do, the time

away from my family. It all just builds up and builds up and builds up. And you can only pull yourself out of those really tough, dark, painful scenarios inside of the mixed martial arts competition if you have laid the foundation of extreme discipline and extreme ownership of being able to. And I've done it since I was 13 years old and I'm well-versed in hand-to-hand combat and I love competing against another man with all eyeballs on me. You're a great athlete. We know about your amateur wrestling background, but you are so explosive as an athlete. Sometimes I imagine you had to be pretty damn good across the board. What was your best sport before committing down the amateur wrestling slash fight game?

I mean, I played a lot of baseball. That doesn't take a ton of athleticism. I played a little bit of football, but I was 97 pounds soaking wet my freshman year. So I played left out, rode the bench. But wrestling was my bread and butter, obviously. You're telling me there's no coach that couldn't put you at halfback and put a ball in your hands. I mean, what am I missing here? I just, I wasn't good enough. I really wasn't, you know, I mean my claim to fame was I scored two touchdowns against you city my senior

year before getting a high ankle sprain and rolling my ankle that, that a game and then broke my wrist a couple of weeks later. So I basically quit the team because I was like, I gotta go win a state, take state championship in wrestling. But, um, I think when you watch the way that I work out, I have just continued to push the envelope of what, what mixed martial artists should do or can do in the weight room. I want to be fast. I want to be explosive. I want to be able to jump high. I want to be able to move fast. I want to be able to change angles. I want to be explosive. You know, I'm not into lifting slow weights and getting a pump. I want my body from head to toe to constantly

becoming, be becoming a better athlete. The better athlete doesn't always win inside the sport of mixed martial arts, but you sure aren't doing yourself any disservices by becoming the best athlete that you possibly can. So that's why I train the way that I do. That's why I think I'm so explosive. That's why my power has continued to grow over the years. And my explosivity has been able to grow over the years and to test them at the hard work of training. All right. Final question here, Michael Chandler.

We can't wait to see you back May 7th, Tony Ferguson. It sells itself UFC 274, but I'm looking up and down your, your, your, your fantastic career record. And there's a few that I think could answer this question, but what's your best night at the office? I mean, I, you know, I could easily say when, when you put it on Patrycki, when he had that porn star mustache, it was a pretty good night. It was a quick night though. What's the best version of you that's ever walked into a fighting cage? Stylistically and technique wise and most confidence wise. I'm going to give you two answers. The two part answer. Okay. All the years that built up that I never, um, never quite knew

if I was going to make the jump to the UFC or test free agency, the pressure that was on me, leaving, leaving Bellator, the virtual certainty of Bellator, knowing that I was the company guy, I was the face of the franchise. I had a road laid out to me for the next 20, 30 years after fighting if I wanted to. All that pressure, stepping into the octagon against Dan Hooker in my UFC debut,

and then putting on the performance that I did, I think that was the best version of myself. But I can tell you the single greatest moment of my career was after I submitted Derek Campos years before, because that was my first win in almost two full years, 688 days, three fights in a row. I went without winning a fight and I made so many mistakes in that time, beat myself down. I was downtrodden. I wasn't quite sure if I was ever going to fulfill this promise that was all my life that I was supposed to be a world champion again. But that was the greatest moment

of my life because conquering another man is great, but conquering oneself is worth its weight in gold. Wow. Inspirational stuff here from the great iron, Mike Chandler. Great chat with you, man. Best of luck to you. You know, swing for the fences. You know, you're really good at that. So we're happy to see it. Okay. I might as well.

See you May 7th. My next guest is in the co-main event of UFC 274. When she defends her title against Carla Esparza, the second time she'll be fighting Esparza. Of course, this would be also be an incredible strawweight contest. It's my friend and yours. It is Rose Namajunas. Hi,

Rose. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing quite well. Rose, it is really remarkable. I was going over your record. You have since 2017 basically been going and fighting the same opponents that you already had. Now, this one is not a back to back in the sense that you fought Esparza previously. Now there's been a gap and you're fighting her again. Have you ever just wondered, like, wow, when am I going to get an opponent that I haven't had before? Yeah, I know. Give me some fresh meat. No, I'm just kidding. But it's funny because that is true.

For the last three opponents, you know, besides Carla, it's been immediate rematches. For me, this one feels like brand new just because it has been so long but um it's technically it is still a rematch but it but in contrast to the last however long it it does feel it does feel fresher yeah I can imagine that I'll circle back to that in just a second but going back to like for example the NJ check camps or the Andrade camps we're we're when you have an opponent you have to fight back to back like that how does it alter the camp from where you would ordinarily go and I guess is it a benefit because you really get to drill

down on I guess on a lot of the same specifics or am I misunderstanding it yeah I think that um you get a lot more like material to work with. And then you go and then you kind of like sort of you have these certain ideas of like, well, they have to try to do this. Or, you know, this is the most likely scenario of this certain situation. And then it's like, well, but you never know. Like you always have that like you got to be prepared for anything type of a thing. So, well, ultimately like, like those are the conversations that you kind of have when game planning and stuff. And then ultimately it's always just about my, my development because it always goes back to that. Like, it's usually like coincidental. I don't know if it's coincidental,

but it's just like, no matter who it is that I'm fighting, it be in a rematch or whatever, usually the next thing that I need to develop in my skill set as a martial artist is what ends up being the game plan for my opponent. Can you give me an example of that to help me better understand the point? Well, for this fight, obviously there's no mystery that, that Carla likes taking people down and, uh, in, um, and that is something that I've really, uh, like just, uh, I'm, I'm a very offensive fighter. So, um, that's something that I've worked on is like self-control and and and my defense really solidifying my defense and and just that um also another thing that i need to to kind of that i've that i've uh had to work on is like my self-control and my my discipline and consistency um and that's always kind of been a regular theme throughout my career but like for this fight in particular that's been a very huge focus and um

that's what carla's good at she's really disciplined really consistent she very very rarely ever strays away from like what she's like her game plan uh whereas for me it's like i can do so many different things so it's easy for me to get like sidetracked and you you know, I can throw a 360 spin kick or I can karate chop you. Like, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't matter. So for me, it's like, it's, it's all about staying disciplined and focused on just like simplicity. What would you say was the biggest thing you got out of the entire Ian J. Check camps back to back and then the fights and then also the Andrade ones when those were over, when you look back on it, what were like maybe the single biggest things you got from those experiences

well with joanna i would say i got um i would say uh even though i've been in a five round fight before then um the the rematch with her i felt like that was like the real first kind of war that I had as far which you kind of maybe categorize as like okay I kind of had to weather some weather a little bit of damage and then with Andrade I mean that was um just a complete total like stripping away of like any innocence as far as like I mean I got my uh I got slammed on my neck and then I got my nose broken a second fight so even but I but I was so like the first fight was so different from the second fight as far as like yeah like I had sustained um I didn't really actually sustain any damage even though I got like KO'd but um my my actually the neck problems that

I had went away after getting slammed in my neck, which is kind of weird. Um, it was sort of a miracle for me, but I came on out of that fight on skates basically, whereas the second fight totally different. Um, I had zero quit in me. I was, I was ready to die in there. I didn't care if she, I didn't care about my face being busted up or anything, even though it hurt. It was like, um, I came out of that fight like

victorious but I was damaged and so um but actually it was also a blessing in disguise too because I ended up getting my deviated septum fixed and that was something that uh was bothering me for like seven years I had like my septum was like pushed up into my nose and it was really hard for me to breathe. I had sinus problems for so long. And so having that fixed is like a game changer for me. And yeah, so it's just kind of weird. I mean, there's a lot of weird takeaways, but I just know that it was all kind of, you know, part of my part of God's plan and, and, and, you know, uh, purposeful. So I guess with the deviated septum being fixed, you no longer snore as bad. Is that the idea? Yeah, I can breathe, man. I, yeah, I'm like, I can, uh, I can, my endurance is so much better.

My recovery, uh, really, you know, yeah, I'll, I'll race anybody in the UFC. Let's go. That's interesting. And then the neck problem, I'm curious, did the doctor ever look at the neck and be like, yeah, you're better. But like, what, what would explain how the slam did it? I, you know, I'd be curious that that's actually, I never thought about actually getting it checked out like afterward. But before I had a, I had a fracture in my C6 and then I also have had a spinal stenosis and, um, it would like make my arm feel weak sometimes, like just lifting up my arm.

Uh, it would, um, I would get these terrible headaches and stuff. And, um, you know, sometimes if I'm wrestling a lot or grappling, like maybe my neck would get a little bit sore, but that's just like muscles. Like, it's not like this, like terrible headache. Like I used to have to like put my head in the ice bath, like backwards, just cause like my headaches would be so bad. Um, and that was leading up to the first fight with her. But afterward I experienced none of those symptoms anymore. And, um, I'm like so so i i should probably i should probably see it see if i still have those problems that's crazy i've never even heard that but i'm glad to hear that you're in better uh condition uh how no matter how crazy the circumstances all right

yeah so talking about carla esparza we know that the first fight uh and then the second fight as you indicated are going to be very different right this? This is not back-to-back, even if it is the same opponent. Yeah. Without giving away too much, though, how would you identify this fight being so different? What stands out to you about why this one will look perhaps quite unlike the first one? Well, I mean, I don't have hair anymore.

No, I'm just kidding. I will be, well, one, I'll be the champion, you know, so I'm going to go in there and I'm going to be like, even though she has like on paper, maybe more fights than me. I don't even know what our records are, but I feel as though I have. Stop sitting on your aeroplane points and get big savings so you can be somewhere you actually want to be, like on a beach. Right now, you can save up to 25% in AeroPlan points when you book a trip to one of 180-plus Air Canada destinations worldwide. So stop sitting on your next trip and start saving on one. Don't miss out. Your chance to save in points ends February 23rd. Book at AirCanada.com.

Conditions apply. The more depth to the experiences as far as like just being on the bigger stages, dealing with the media, having that pressure on me. I feel, I mean, I don't know what she has to go through I can't walk in her shoes but I do know that um there's a total difference between preparing for a five-round fight and a three-round fight especially um uh you know main eventing or co-main eventing or really big cards and some of the biggest cards that um and most memorable cards so so I think that's probably the the hugest difference as far

as like the first fight and and i'll take it like the first fight that we had was a big deal as far as like just it being in this historical you know first strongweight championship title fight um so like you know she had that experience but i mean but the experience that i had going into that as opposed to her experience i mean um mean, it's totally different now. You know, what's interesting is Janjacek and Andrade, they're dangerous, but in not entirely dissimilar ways, but in pretty dissimilar ways, right? They're not, they have very unique skill sets. And Carla has her own unique skill set relative to them. And I don't mean to suggest she's not dangerous.

I take her as she earned this opportunity and she is quite dangerous but I guess my point would be would you agree that relative to you and Jay check and then relative to Andrade as dangerous as she might be her game is somewhat more conventional I know what you mean um I think that, uh, when facing, she's not as intimidating, let's just say that. Um, but for me, it's like, because I know better, I know that she poses like different types of threats. Um, not just, I mean, she can obviously in her last fight, she showed that she can, you know, cut you up and, and, and, uh, crucifix you. And you know what I mean?

Just make you, um, not look the same, like obviously, and, and, uh, crucifix you. And you know what I mean? Just make you, um, not look the same, like obviously, but historically speaking, obviously her fights, um, she doesn't inflict as much damage as say like a Whaley, um, you know, fight, but, um, psychologically, I think that, uh, she messes people up really bad because they go in there, um, sort of overlooking her, maybe not seeing her as much of a threat. And then they all of a sudden are trying to figure out why they're on their back, you know. So for me, it's like I'm taking this I'm taking this just as seriously, if not way more seriously than than those other two opponents, because it's it's all about controlling myself,

and then I'll be successful. This is something I'm asking all the high-level UFC fighters I talk to. I spoke to Alex Volkanovsky recently, and I asked him this, so I will ask you this as well, which is when you think about your style, how did you get here? What I mean by that is did you purposely say, I want a certain style, I want to look a certain way, I want to have certain weapons or did it form more organically? Oh, yeah, I think it's always been sort of it's been pretty organic, I would say.

There's been. I've had to I just been kind of like like i think a lot of fighters i would say we're all just kind of figuring shit out on the fly as far as like uh there's no rule book to like this the sport is still evolving and still you know new things are coming up all the time so um i think that just with my taekwondo background it sort of evolved and then and then along the way this journey I've I've come across just I've um uh crossed paths with so many different people that has like sort of just it's like it's like making gumbo you know what I mean it's just like you just kind of make it as you go along and you just kind of add new flavors to it and so this is kind of what I came up with it's like, yeah, so there's a certain

structure to how like, I know this works for my style. I know this works for my body type. And then and then it's just like kind of trial and error and like adding things as we go along. When you think about it, if someone had never seen you fight and they wanted you to describe how you fight to them, what would you say? I would say that, you know, my game plan is pretty much the same every time. It's punch them in their face, take their back and choke them out. However that manifests, it manifests in many different ways. Kind of like a jazz song.

Like, you know, you have your, this is the song, but each time you play the jazz song, it's a little bit different because you know you feel different that day so you might improv and add a little different note but ultimately the the structure of the song is the same punch their face take their back and choke them out the back is like obviously it's an important position right because it's one of the few positions where you have total asymmetry right you have control they have they have next to. Is that why you went for it? Or did it just going for the back early in training was successful? You kept doing it. I mean, how, I guess what I'm trying to get is how intentional was designing, getting to the back and choking

them out a part of what you were doing? Yeah, that's a good question. Um, I think, well, I think that whole strategy, well, just getting the back in general, this is, I think, what I realized along the way was, even though I have phenomenal striking, and I've been around, I've been blessed to be around so many great strikers, I realized as a martial artist, you have to have really good jiu jitsu, because jiu jitsu makes fights fights it does two things it either gets you out of really tough situations um it helps you survive or it um makes the fight a lot easier you know what i mean and so um so you can have the best striking ever but somebody can just take your punch and maybe you just can't take them out you know what i mean so having that choke having that and and i feel like green naked choke to having that back position i feel like you're a naked choke to having that back position. I feel like that's the ultimate way to dominate somebody because you had to have made so many

mistakes before then, you know what I mean? Like you ultimately controlled them. And that's just the ultimate checkmate in my opinion is taking their back and choking them out. You know what I mean? Because a lot of the time, yeah, go ahead. Oh no. I just, uh, I was just saying that, like, the last thing I'll say is that in order to take somebody's back, you either have to be really, really masterful or you get somebody in that position to where they give you your back and they kind of gave up.

So so that's one of the two things you're either really good or you made that person. You broke their will. Yeah, there's a famous video from Half Gracie Black Belt, Kurt Oceander. I don't know if you heard of him, but he has, there was a video like, how do you get out of a triangle? And his first point is, let me explain something to you. If you're locked in a triangle, you fucked up a long time ago. Sort of the point you raise.

In terms of back attackers, who do you like out there? Who's somebody whose back attacks are like, God, they're good. I mean, shoot, Aljamain Sterling, like recently, I mean, he's so masterful with it. Like when he gets you there, it's just really, really hard to get out. I was going to say, yeah, obviously Damian Maia. He's, you know, I would say probably the best out of everybody in the whole UFC. Charles Oliveira is really, really great as well. He has, you know, some of the coolest submissions in the whole UFC. Charles Oliveira is really, really great as well. He has some of the coolest submissions in the UFC.

So those are probably the top three. I was going to say, what did you make of your previous foe, Andrade, getting the first ever standing head and arm triangle? Try to explain to people, you have to be insanely strong to even attempt something like that. She's very strong, man. That is pretty amazing, I would say. You know, usually when you get in that position,

you want to like trip them and take them down from there. And it's usually a really easy takedown. But yeah, I mean, yeah, she that was that was super masterful on her part. I always thought that she had really great like defensive jujitsu or like, you know, really great like defensive jiu-jitsu or like you know really great guillotines and stuff um but that she just showed that she's you know truly a black boat all right when you think about you said everything has happened organically to this point right like the the development of your style still what are you 29 years old i think is the right number 29.

you still have time left to further develop I mean you're almost pre-prime in certain ways I don't know if you really think of it in those terms do you think about um the pieces of the game you would like to add or are you still just sort of feeling it as it goes um yeah I'm always uh I'm always looking to add more things um Is there a way to get a charger over here? Is there like a, okay. Yeah, there's a little, yeah, sorry. My battery's a little low, but no, I think that I'm always looking to add new things

and just make the things that I already do better. But I really, you know, other than just like, you know, positional things and whatnot, I really want to get my black belt in jiu-jitsu. That would be great. And then outside of that, I would say I really want to get better at like self-defense type of things with like stick fighting, knife defense, and like gun training. Like those are kind of like my extracurricular things that I would really, and then once I'm done fighting, I would really like to delve into more jujitsu and

things like that, but, yeah, I would say also, yeah, just, just getting better everywhere, I think, would be, would be cool, and maybe like, I think always putting like kind of putting a little bit more, um, just kind of more muscle mass and stuff like that maybe will be cool, but like, I'm, I'm pretty freaking strong as it is, you know? So you, you, you mentioned sort of the next stage we're talking about it. People always talk about five-year plans, no matter what career you're in business, fighting, whatever. Do you have a five-year plan? I guess I would ask you at 34, what do you imagine you'll be doing at that time? Still fighting something else?

What do you think? I would say I'll be, I'll kind of just be doing a similar version of what I'm doing now, but just like hopefully, hopefully, um, ninja farming, you know, like, like, uh, just kind of my goal is to be, to be able to provide for myself, um, you know, my own food and water source and things like that. That's, that's really something that I'm wanting to focus on. And, you know, I've talked about earthships before. That's something that I really want to integrate into my martial arts training. And so I see that in the next five years for sure.

How hard is it to provide your own water? Food I can get, but the water part, I guess I don't know. How does that work? That's very difficult, especially out here in Colorado. The water rights things are really, really weird. I would say the main, obviously getting a well or something like that would be great or finding a live water source would be ultimately the best. But I mean, you're not always that lucky.

And like the best way is to develop a system of living to where you recycle your water and catch rain water as as you can get it um and that's where the whole earthship design kind of comes in because every all the all the water is recycled it not even just like you know the water that you well the water that you drink the water that you wash your you know dishes with and then your toilet water and then your shower water and your um the gray water goes into your plants and that and the plants clean that water and then it goes into your toilet which is your black water and then septic tank you know filters that out and then you have a leach field where um it basically you know waters your non edible plants you know so it's like it's like the ultimate system so that

the whole goal is to like conserve as much and then try to gather what you need you know what's one major difference between you and not just other UFC champions but a lot of other UFC fighters and it seems quite intentional and I have to say I think you're on the right path the entire sport to me feels very online everyone Everyone is online all the time. And I looked at your Twitter account. You've had, you've got one tweet since I think like December of 2021, it was just for a sponsor.

No, but I, you know what I got to say? I, for example, I'll give you any, I'll tell you this Kayla Harrison. One time told me she has a Google alert that anytime any media mentioned,

mentions her in a video or article, she gets a digest email and it sends it to her. And that seems to me, and I love Kayla and I've talked to her about this, but that seems to me like a bad way to get feedback about yourself. You have disconnected. Why have you disconnected? Why is everyone else so online in this community? Yeah, I decided that because, um, it's, uh, sometimes you just, it's just like having that sense of control over yourself, like because you feel like just the impulse to like you feel the pressure to do that. And like, I don't like that. I feel like if I even though there is like lots of positive things that come from social media and things like just opportunities or connecting with certain people or connecting with your fans. Sometimes when you feel that, like you feel like you're like you just start posting things

that aren't really like true to yourself because you feel like you have to. And I never want to feel like that. And then I also want to really be careful about reading what people say about me, because it's like they don't have they don't walk in my shoes. They don't know me. So like they're really going off of assumptions and things that have nothing. They don't they don't know me. So it really doesn't mean no good to to put that into my head. So those are, those are the main reasons. Um, but I would, you know, it, I do recognize that it is good to be online present, you know, but, uh, but yeah, it just, it doesn't really make me happy. Yeah. I can totally understand. Well, champ, we really appreciate your time. We cannot wait for UFC 274 co-main event taking on Carla Esparza.

It is a new fight, same opponent, but we're excited for it just the same. Thank you for your time. Can't wait to see it. Thank you so much.