MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - UFC 278 Storylines | Burgos to PFL | Oleksandr Usyk vs. Anthony Joshua 2 | Ep 337

Episode Date: August 17, 2022

On Episode 337 of Morning Kombat, Brian is joined by Aaron Bronsteter to preview UFC 278 this weekend. The guys discuss Kamaru Usman vs. Leon Edwards 2, Luke Rockhold vs. Paulo Costa and much more. Brian and Aaron also break down some PFL news and do a quick preview of Kayla Harrison's fight this weekend. Following the MMA topics Brian is joined by Rafe Bartholomew to discuss the boxing side of this weekend. Rafe and Brian discuss Oleksandr Usyk vs. Anthony Joshua 2 and Adrien Broner pulling out of his fight. Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit:morning kombat.store   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Reveley, reveveille, dogs. Look at us now, tip to tip. This is our life. This is our passion. That's the spirit we bring to this show. I'm Luke Thomas. I'm Brian Campbell. This is Morning Combat.

Oh, yeah. Get fired up. It is a hump day it is mk no luke thomas but we are still here to bang you're looking at me the bbc the beige guy brian campbell across from me on this wednesday august 15th 2022 in a loaded morning combat how about awardinated Canadian journalist? His aim is true. He's MMA's answer to Elvis Costello. It's A. Braun himself, Aaron Braunstetter. A.B., always a pleasure, my friend. Well, thank you for having me. And before people email in to correct you, it's actually the 17th of August. So I'm just going to clear that up right now so that you can save yourself from an email on Friday. An early dead wrong, August 17th. I mean, do dates, days really matter right now?

Okay, Luke's somewhere with the family enjoying himself, but we're not worried about that guy at the moment. Great to have you, AB. Great to be here in this award-winning podcast. We'll have Rafe Bartholomew, my old friend in the box, on the second half of the show. It's a loaded week, AB. What a time to be alive, my friend. How is everything in the 51st state up there, Canada?

You mean the 10th island, as Max Holloway calls it. Yeah, everything's great. And you're right. This is a loaded week. Last week was a loaded week with the trifecta, the Holy Trinity, PFL, Bellator, and the UFC. And now we've got this week, you've got the Anthony Joshua fight. You've got another PFL with Kayla Harrison and Larissa Pacheco. Looking to solidify their spots in the finals against one another. The biggest fight that could happen in the PFL right now, in my opinion. And, of course, UFC 278.

We're loaded. Let's go. Yeah, I mean, are we going to forget BKFC? MVP versus Mike Perry? Yeah, we've got MVP versus Mike Perry as well. That's a fun one. Showtime championship boxing. I mean, come on.

Let's put some respect on all the people that passed. Hey, how about this shirt? Maybe the biggest day in combat sports history. Remember this? That's a fun one. Showtime championship boxing. I mean, come on. Let's put some respect on all the people that pay us. Hey, how about this shirt? Maybe the biggest day in combat sports history. Remember this? The WWE crown jewel? Okay. You know this guy right here?

Abron? Yeah. Tyson Fury. I've heard of him. Decent pro wrestler against Braun Strowman. Free Kane. There he is right there. All right.

What a time. Free Kane, yeah. WWE love taking that blood money. That's like the combat sports event of events. They just needed that Mayweather versus Big Show on that card. Yeah, indeed, indeed. A lot of bullshit going on that night. A lot of bullshit going on today, but it'll be important stuff.

As A.B. mentioned, we're going to set the stage for UFC 278. PFL's back. Big news with Shane Burgos. The box side of things. New main event for Showtime. And don't forget about Usyk Joshua 2 this weekend. Going to be good times and great oldies. So please support what we do.

Like, subscribe. You can find the social channels below for one. Aaron Bronstetter. I'm sure they'll appear eventually right about now. There it is. AB, do you like, I mean, look, Adrian Broner, the problem kind of has that AB nickname on lockdown. Do you like this new wave of calling you Abron? It's very Canadian. Yeah, I'll take it. Any nickname. I've gotten LeBron. I've gotten Abron.

The nicknames will continue to roll. Okay. Okay. Great. Great. Great. Indeed. Showtime, the label that pays us, the label that puts on great Bellator events, Showtime Championship Boxing, fantastic documentaries. I mean, that Bill Cosby thing with Kamala Bell is fantastic. You can get 33 free days today by going to Showtime.com. Tell them BC sent you. You're going to like the way that this streaming service looks on you. I guarantee it. And, you know, pound sand on the end if you don't.

But that's your take. Hey, Abron, did they ever outfit you in merch? We're trying to talk to our closest friends here. You know, the Chuck Mendenhalls, the Rashad Evanses of the world. Do you own any MK merch? They said the shipping to Canada was too much, so they wouldn't send me any. No, we have international flat rate shipping now.

We will get you outfitted, but the fans know they can go to morningcombat.store. And today is a big day for our merch house. Not only can you get fantastic mugs like this, but the MK bomber jacket that you may have seen on luke and bc back in the day on the stream it is now available for all morningcombat.store it's probably the best shit we ever put out there in the ethosphere so check that out today but more importantly arguably before we get into the show today it's podcast podcast award season. And as you folks already know, we're going to need you if you want to take us to the next level. It is the World MMA Awards have nominated Morning Combat for Best MMA Programming for the second straight year.

Big upset last year when we pulled it off. Can we run it back? We got Joe Rogan. We got Ariel Hawane. We got all these UFC shows to beat. But you can vote for us by hitting that QR code right now. You can go to world MMA dot com slash nominees. Look, you're a rabid folk out there.

You want us to keep rising? Do your part. And A.B., we ain't the only one potentially getting the rub from this award. Is it true? Aaron Bronstetter is up for MMA journalist of the year. Is this true? Oh, it's true. It's damn true. And you can go to the nominations.

I'd love to get some of that morning combat rub from the feral cats out there, the homeless cats that consume this show. Always excited to be part of this show. And if you guys want to give me the rub, I appreciate that. I'll even thank somebody from the MK staff in my thank you speech if I am successful at dethroning the king, Ariel Helwani, who has won it, what, like 10 years in a row? But you know what? Enough is enough, and it's time for a change. They let John Morgan win it the first year with his blue shirt. Then Ariel's been on a Cal Ripken-like streak. But you got some Brady Anderson vibes coming out right now, okay? So maybe this could be your 50 home run year. Who else are you up against in this award? It's Mike Bond, Helwani, so that's the Canadian trifecta with the three of us. Sean Alshadi, fantastic writer. And I'm trying to remember who the last one is. I think it's

John Morgan, again. So I think that's the five that are nominated this year. So a great group to be affiliated with. Just fantastic, fantastic mixed martial arts media members. Maybe this is the year. Maybe. OK, upsets do happen in MMA, as we've seen. OK. All right. Well, yeah, if everybody from that Barry Bonds era, except for Barry Bonds, can get into the Hall of Fame, I guess I've got a shot. I mean, do you think Piazza and Jeter touched the stuff? Did they touch it? Well, that's the thing. If you're going to take a couple people from that era and disqualify them, because if I recall, I don't think Bonds ever like actually, did Bonds ever actually really pop?

Like, did he ever get suspended? Well, the size of his head popped. And I think his non-realistic stats popped. But listen, if you're going to put people from that era into the Hall of Fame, what are you taking Bonds and Clemens out of the mix for? It doesn't make any sense. All right. Wow.

There it is. AB. AB was going ham on basketball in the pre-show. Now we got some baseball takes. I'm here for it. Aaron Bronstetter, we are here, though, to set the stage for, as we mentioned, one of the bigger weekends of combat sports in some time. Adrian Broner, not in the show time main event.

We'll get into that a little bit further into the show. But UFC 278 is back this weekend. It's a pay-per-view Salt Lake City Saturday night and a welterweight title rematch. Topic number one takes us into this one. Kamaru Usman versus Leon Edwards part two. Now, Aaron, they met a long time ago. 2015, three-round unanimous decision for Kamaru Usman, your defending welterweight champion. Luke and I did a rewatch, and look,

did I try to splinter in some bad jokes in the second half to keep people interested? Maybe. It wasn't a thrilling fight. It was wrestle-heavy. It was Kamaru Usman 1.0 in his second UFC fight, second fight since winning the Ultimate Fighter Tournament. And for Leon Edwards, it was his fourth. But look, AB, this was a preliminary card UFC fight, like early prelim main event back when this fight happened. A lot's changed in seven years. You can hear people say none of what happened in 2015 matters.

What say you? Is there anything we can take from that first meeting, foundationally, that still applies to this rematch all of these years later? I'd say the only thing that applies is the knowledge for Kamaru Usman that he's beaten Leon Edwards in the past. And same with the flip side of that, where Leon Edwards knows that he's lost to this guy before. I think that's really the only thing you can take away, because if you go back and watch it,

these guys are shells of themselves of what they've become. Like, this is the early evolution of these guys. So I think that when you look at what they've become now, it's going to be a completely different fight. But I think the one takeaway for those two guys is the knowledge of what happened in the first fight, because that's always back there. He's going to be standing across the cage from Kamaru Usman knowing, guys is the knowledge of what happened in the first fight. Because that's always back there. He's going to be standing across the cage from Kamaru Usman knowing this is the guy who beat me. And Usman's going to have the same thing. He's going to look across the cage, see Leon Edwards, say, we've been here before, and I beat this guy last time.

That is something that I don't think you can block out. But just foundationally, these are two different fighters now. And I think that's what makes this an exciting fight because we're going to see the best versions of these guys. Edwards hasn't lost since that fight. Usman's never lost in the UFC. So we've got two elite fighters right now going toe-to-toe. And I think that, really, Usman's got a lot to lose here

and not a whole lot to gain. That's an interesting take, and I don't disagree with that, especially considering all the talk seems to be focused on if Hamzat Shumayev gets back by Nate Diaz coming up that, look, this is the fight. This is the defining potential welterweight title defense for Usman. I want to get into Usman and the legacy and all that in a second. He is 15-0 in the UFC, your pound-for-pound king, Leon Edwards, 9-0 with one no contest in the 10 fights since their first meeting. But AB, you mentioned something there.

You said, look, you can't really apply what happened then to now. I wrote a story, you know, looking at the storylines ahead of this card for CBS Sports this week, where I did say this. It's not an apples to apples comparison. They're both different in many ways. The evolution of Usman's striking speaks loudly since joining forces with Trevor Whitman. But isn't that same foundational lesson we learned that first fight still true? Although it depends upon which version of Usman comes out.

What I'm really trying to say is we learned in the first fight that we know he's a better wrestler. We know he can control the terms of the fights should he make a consistent push to take Leon Edwards down. You can counter that by saying that one-dimensional wrestler version of Kamaru Usman, he hasn't come around in a while. So I guess I bring this up to spin the question back at you and say, would it be more advantageous for Usman to dial back into the guy he used to be for this fight? Or do you see him doing the continued trend he's been doing, proving on the feet through his pound for pound number one status that he's become an elite well-rounded fighter? Well, Usman's got a strong fight IQ, and I think

you take the path of least resistance. I think you try to take him down and impose your will, like he did in that first Masvidal fight. But on the flip side of that, since Edwards lost that first fight, if you look at the champions of the welterweight division, even back to Johnny Hendricks, you look at Woodley and Usman, who have been the champions of this division for, what, the last five, six years, maybe even longer. I'm terrible at figuring out how long these things have been,

what the duration is. Since August of 2016 at UFC 201 when Woodley beat Lawler. Okay. Yeah. So, and how many years ago was that? Six. Six. So yes, the last six years, you've had these guys with NCAA wrestling credentials. So you have to imagine that since 2015, when Leon Edwards lost to Kamaru, he's been working on takedown defense, drilling takedown defense every single day in the gym, and making that a fundamental part of his game. So is it going to be easy for Kamaru Usman to impose his will on Leon Edwards and imply that same game plan from the first fight in this one?

I just think they're two different fighters. I think that's something he should attempt to do. He should test the waters there, see if he's able to take Edwards down, because I think if he does take Edwards down, it's going to take a lot for Edwards to get back to his feet. That's why I say it's the path of least resistance. It's the easiest way for him to retain the title if he is able to exploit that, if there is still a weakness there, but we haven't really seen it from Leon Edwards in recent years. No, it's a fair point. Obviously, this is more suited to Friday's sort of X's and O's breakdown, but it is one of those storylines that centers this, looking back at that first fight, how it may or may not affect the second one.

Let's look at Edwards on this current streak since that loss to Kamaru Usman. 9-0, 1-0 contest. It's weird. In the pregame preview we shot with Chuck Mendenhall on Morning Combat that you can check out right now on youtube.com slash morningcombat, I kind of made this weird argument ab that rocky not pennington although it's it's fair fair to argue whether i'm the tisha you know and it's a luke and the rocky uh you know that relationship but rocky edwards he's spent so underrated for so long that i almost

feel like now he's overrated meaning look, look, this win streak has been fantastic and this is not an easy division to win nine out of ten fights without a defeat. But I don't really know if I've seen that one performance or that one name he's beaten that really gives me the confidence that he's a live dog entering this fight. How would you react to such a casual comment as that? Well, I think that you raise a good point, though. Like, if you look at good point, though. Like, if you look at the pandemic starting in March 2020, he was supposed to fight, I believe,

on the card against Woodley that week, the week of the first cancellations of cards. And if you look at what's happened since then, you have the Bilal Muhammad fight with the eye poke, very, very, you know, little clarity as to where Edwards is at, because first round Leon Edwards has always been good, but it's kind of in the later rounds, if he was to be tested against the guy with the wrestling pedigree of Bilal Muhammad, where we would have really seen what Leon Edwards is about, we didn't get to see that, and then the Nate Diaz fight, which I think is kind of lopsided matchmaking, he was, what, a five to one favorite in that, and he cruised in that fight until he didn't, until it was the fifth round, Diaz tags him, and that's the lasting memory in the minds of the mixed martial arts enthusiast. So what have we seen from Leon Edwards in the last two and a half years

that would convince you that he's ready for this step up in competition? That's what this is. This is a major step up in competition from one round against Bilal Muhammad to Nate Diaz to now Kamaru Usman. And listen, I think that he's earned the title shot. But what have we seen that would convince us that he's ready for this matchup? Not a whole lot, but that also works to his favor. Because I don't know if we've seen the full body of work from Leon Edwards. We don't really know where he's at. And I think that Usman is going to

go into this fight knowing that too. I don't really know exactly he's at. And I think that Usman is going to go into this fight knowing that, too. I don't really know exactly what Leon Edwards is going to bring to the table in this fight. And that's what makes it so intriguing for me, because I think that he deserves the shot. But the last two and a half years haven't taught us a whole lot about Leon Edwards. Would you agree when people say this fight should have happened two years ago? Is there any truth in that, AB? Maybe. Not really. I mean, we can call it up for what it is. Edwards isn't

necessarily the most marketable guy. I would have liked to see the Edwards versus Hamzat fight because that would have kind of told us where Leon Edwards was at. If Leon Edwards would have beaten Hamzat Shemaev, imagine how much of a rub he would have gotten from that. I think that a lot of people would have really bought into Leon Edwards. I'm not sure people are sold on Leon Edwards right now. And I think that it's on him to sell us on him this Saturday. And that's a lot to ask of somebody. But at the same time, the stakes are as high as they're going to get for Leon Edwards. So I imagine we're going to see the most prepared and the best Leon Edwards going into this fight. Yeah, ready or not, it's his time. Our friends at Caesars currently have the odds plus 310. The underdog Edwards minus 400.

Your four to one betting favorite Kamaru Usman. your 4-1 betting favorite, Kamaru Usman. Look, it would make sense. Kamaru Usman is 15-0 in the damn UFC. He's your pound-for-pound king. This will be the third time he'll be fighting an opponent for the second time, although obviously the first Edwards fight was not a title defense. But if successful, this would be his sixth title defense, which would put him three away from GSP's welterweight record.

But I think even bigger than that, this win would tie him with Anderson Silva for that very respected 16 consecutive UFC victory streak. So this all plays into this. I think you made a good comment early when you essentially said for Usman, I don't want to call this a potential trap fight, but it is a little bit of a no-win situation. He's expected to win. Nobody's clamoring for this rematch. We all believe Edwards is more or less deserving, but there's not a lot of natural motivation. Now, if you're a true champion, a guy that can be consistent across

many years against many different opponents, different styles, different scenarios, Kamaru's proven that. He is mentally rock solid. I mean, AB, if you would have told me, you know, the same Kamaru that beat Maya and Woodley would be the pound for pound king a couple of years later, I wouldn't have guessed that. Obviously, the transformation he's made to make himself twice as dangerous offensively has been great. I respect his IQ. I respect all that. But A.B., the narrative entering into this fight, everybody's asking Dana, everybody's

asking everybody is, if he wins this, yes, going to have to climb the Tremiah Mountain most likely. But dude, he's entering, if not the upper room of the GOAT conversation. He's on the outside knocking on that damn door. I want to know if you believe it's time to be having this conversation. And if you believe anything of this topic could present a trap element for Usman, being that it is going to be hard to get up for Rocky Edwards compared to somebody like Chemaev. Well, the big problem for Usman in this kind of

conversation is that he's in the same weight class that George St. Pierre was. And you're always going to have the two narratives. There's the one narrative where GSP lost fights in the UFC, where Usman has never lost a UFC fight. So if you take that and you say, well, I value the undefeated track record of Kamaru versus GSP, then you can be on Team Kamaru. But then if you're on Team GSP and you say, GSP never needed to have rematches because he blew out every single opponent that he faced as champion. He was a dominant champion.

Nobody came close to touching him until Johnny Hendricks in his very last welterweight title defense. Well, is that true, AB? One head kick that he ate from Carlos Condit in a round that I believe he won, or actually, sorry, in a fight that he won every other round of. And we did lose to Matt Serra, okay?

I mean, let's put the facts in front of us, right? Right, he lost to Matt Serra. But after that is when the title run happened. After he beat Matt Serra, recaptured the title, and then went on that run. Like, he didn't, you know, every time he beat somebody, there was no talks of a rematch. He blew them out. Changed their careers. Whereas with Usman, you now have a third rematch for him.

Now, I think this rematch is a little bit different than Masvidal and Colby because those were title defenses and then title rematches, whereas this is somebody who's gone on an absolute run in Leon Edwards where it's warranted not because of a close title fight the first time, but more because of the body of work that Edwards has shown since then. But again, I think you're going to have these two teams. You're going to have the team that likes GSP with the dominant title defenses, no rematches, just a stretch of dominance that was unparalleled at the time versus a guy like Usman who has not

lost in the UFC, who's beating all the best guys, who's cleaning out the division, right? So I think that there's that conversation to have. But if Usman was, for example, a lightweight, I think you could call him the best lightweight in the world. If he was a featherweight, you can call him the best featherweight in the world. But with GSP there, that's always going to be the thing that kind of makes this a more interesting conversation with Usman because I think you could make a case that Usman might be the best to have ever done it. Like, Usman has a tremendous track record in the UFC.

You know, no issues with drug tests, has been completely undefeated, destroyed Tyron Woodley when he was an underdog. Like all of these things happen that continue to add to his resume and a win over Edwards would do that, but it wouldn't add that much. And I think that that's why you hear Usman talking about moving to 205. Because if Usman moves to 205 and wins the title at light heavyweight, you're just a hater if you say he's not the greatest of all time, right? Like he's moved up two weight classes. Yeah, it'd be hard. You would just have to be a hater to not call him the best of all time at that point in time.

Am I right? Yes, you're 100% right. That would be monumental. But let me ask you this. I got a lot of questions to ask you about this conversation. Again, this is what podcasters do, right? They fill time talking about goats, and it pisses the hardcores off who only want to

talk about the fights. But, you know, obviously in GSP's favor, he won titles in two divisions, but that doesn't necessarily matter in the Who's the Greatest Welterweight campaign. GSP, way more beloved. Do you think GSP fought better competition than Kamaru has? Well, it's hard to say, because he made them look so bad. But they got there. They got

to the dance, right? So if they're getting to the dance... Like, listen, when he beat BJ Penn, everybody considered BJ Penn to be one of the top five fighters in the world. And he demolished BJ Penn in that fight. Right? So, I mean, you have to take stuff like that into consideration. So, I mean, like you said, GSP is beloved. I don't know why Kamaru isn't equally beloved. Okay, let me counter you, because I make

the comment from time to time when people give me dirty looks that the only reason why Usman isn't the star level, even though I agree with everything you said, like he hasn't had issues, he's an honest, hardworking guy, he represents his home nation in Africa, but also is like, he's just a great dude. I mean, he's an ambassador for the sport. He's getting

everything he earns and deserves. But he's a little bit of a cornball, personally. Does that hold him back from getting that? I mean, look, it's hard to compare that to GSP because GSP is one of those foundational, you know, tent legs in the ground of UFC history. I mean, he's like Bushido to the core. There are still GSP fans that, you know, never were really MMA fans, but they were GSP fans. Like, he's that guy. Is Kamaru just doesn't have the right personality to be that guy?

Is that fair? Is that mean? What is that? I think it is mean, and I don't think it's accurate. And I don't understand it. Like, if you're going to look at someone's personality, and that's why you don't think they're... Look at what happens in the cage. That's what matters. Dustin Poirier says this all the time. That's fair.

What happens in the cage is the truth. So put all that other stuff aside. How is it a press conference? It doesn't make a difference. Let's just look at the body of work and go from there. And I think people like GSP because he admitted to being scared of fighting. He was very human. He was very honest. And it's not

that Kamaru is dishonest, but I think that there's something about him being scared of these things that people can relate to. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's better than Usman or anything like that. I'm laying out both sides. I think that that's why people like Usman is because he's undefeated. He is still having dominant wins as champion. And that's why, again, people are in the GSP camp is because he completely dominated the competition

for a good stretch of time before taking that hiatus and then coming back at middleweight and winning another title. So, like, there's arguments to be made. And I think, like you said, this is all podcast, narrative-type stuff that everybody's going to have a different opinion on, and that's okay. That's what makes sports fun. Everybody's going to have a different asshole, but we all have one, okay? It's true. Some of us are one.

We're all giving them away. Yeah. Over your right shoulder, is that a figurine of GSP, Boss Rootin, or Dana White? I can't figure it out from this distance. Glover thought it was him when I had him on the show, but it is GSP. Okay. This one over here. And did you go to the GSP? We've got the Silver Star George St. Pierre.

I'll give you guys a closer look at this. The Silver Star George St. Pierre. Old school. Back when there was no uniforms. Wow. I'll give you guys a closer look at this. The Silver Star George St. Pierre. Old school, back when there was no uniforms. Wow. Did you go to that Toronto St. Pierre Shields fight that you have memorably behind you, the program for?

Did you go to that? I was there. I've been to every Toronto event. I was at that one and every other one that took place. Your Canadian brethren showed up for that. I mean, they went nuts. 55,000 plus. There's never been more people attending a mixed martial arts event in North America. And that was kind of this weird culmination. I talked about that. I did this monologue that I do every week on Twitter,

where I talked a little bit about that, how it was really, the hunger in that market at that point in time, Ontario wasn't legalized, and the UFC lobbied and finally got it legalized, and the hunger of the mixed martial arts fan in Canada had never been higher. It was like the perfect time to do an event like that, because it was the first time they did an event in that locale. They'd been hungry for it for years, but it was not legal at the time. Just the perfect storm of events that allowed something like that locale. They'd been hungry for it for years, but it was not legal at the time. Just the perfect storm of events that allowed something like that to happen. And I think that's why they don't do stadium shows

very often. Yeah, I mean, it's weird. For as polite as your people, and when I say your people, in some ways I'm saying our people, because don't forget that I'm half French-Canadian and my descendants come from Quebec, okay? I mean, please. Although maybe you've got an internal Ontario versus Quebec issue.

Your descendants are like the UN. You have descendants from everywhere. I do. I'm also an adopted Welshman. I'll tell you that much. But your people love themselves some fights, whether it's hockey, boxing, MMA. I mean, I've been to Montreal many times. Great fight city.

Yet they're so nice. It's weird. Have you guys fully adopted Brock Lesnar as a Canadian? We'll take him. I mean, he lives in Saskatchewan. I mean, you know, he represented the Canadian flag in his last UFC fight, if you recall.

All right. Final question on this weird goat thing. You mentioned something key. Usman not wanting to fight Israel Adesanya, his buddy, teasing some idea of a 205. Yes to what you said. If he did that,

I don't know what we'd do with him historically. You know, it'd be something. But if he did that without fighting Hamzat first, would he have a scarlet letter on him? No, I don't think so. And I don't think that that would also make it so that he doesn't fight Hamzat. And I personally believe,

if you were to ask me, you know, hand to God, I think that the Hamzat fight's going to be next. Like, the UFC knows that there's an appetite for that fight if Hamzat fight is going to be next. Like the UFC knows that there's an appetite for that fight if Hamzat ends up beating Nate Diaz. Like this Nate Diaz fight is kind of a placeholder. You could put Hamzat in against Usman anytime. Of course, he's going to have to beat Nate Diaz. And if you listen to Dana White yesterday after Contender Series, you're out of your mind if you don't believe that Nate Diaz has a shot in that fight. So let's see it happen

first. And then I think you're going to see that fight between Hamzat and Usman. And then I think if Usman makes light work of Hamzat somehow or wins even a competitive fight, I think that's when you got to start talking about 205 because really who else is there? I mean, you got Bilal Muhammad coming up. I think him versus Sean Brady is an interesting fight. There's still certainly people that haven't fought Usman yet that are working their way up the division.

I mean, you've also got Shafqat. I think he's an interesting name to look at at 170 going forward. But if they gave him the opportunity to win the title at light heavyweight, and again, if he's beaten Khamzat and he goes and wins the light heavyweight championship, he would be in bold, underlined, without a shadow of a doubt, the greatest of all time. And I don't think you could even argue against it. Wow. Wow. You know, I got an interesting middleweight fight for him.

GSP, but that's just me. All right, let's keep the train moving. Look, the odds have, as we mentioned, Usman is a four to one favorite. So that's, you know, that's pretty wide for a titleman, again, has never lost in the UFC. We have a pretty interesting clashing of styles where you've got kind of grappler versus striker, but still a pretty well-rounded game all around for both guys. But yeah, I mean, what is the path for Leon Edwards? I think really the path for Leon Edwards is if A, Usman is somehow unable to take him down over the course of the fight, tires himself out, or B, he decides to test his stand-up against Leon Edwards and fails. But I just don't see either of those outcomes being particularly likely. That being said, I think if Edwards ends up winning, that's a massive upset.

It's a monumental upset. Yeah, yeah, no question about it. How many former Utah Jazz players will be in attendance in Salt Lake City? Because I'm hoping we get like an Adam Keefe sighting or like a Oster Tag or some shit. I just wouldn't want to be sitting behind Yogi Oster Tag. That would be a bad look. But yeah,

I mean, I think that we could certainly see some Jasmine in attendance. I would like to see that. If Carl Malone was there, it would be great. John Stockton, Jeff Hornacek, and anybody from that great era of Utah jazz lore. Mark Eaton, that would be another guy you don't want to sit behind. Wow.

Wow, 7'4", all of that. Let's keep it going on topic two. It's the rest of the UFC 278 storylines. And there's a couple of interesting fights to circle here. Wow, Rafe Boog sliding in. He'll be on later in the show, but he slid into the chat to say Mark Eaton has passed. I feel like Mark Eaton was dead. R.I.PIP to the UFC legend.

I'm sure he was great at volleyball. I'm just going to guess. I'm going to put that out there. He used to block shots without jumping, okay? Our co-main event is kind of an interesting middleweight tilt here as former title challenger and wine enthusiast Paulo Costa takes on former champion altogether in Luke

Rockhold, who hasn't won since 2017, has been extremely inactive. But as you look at this fight, it's hard to say there's not huge stakes. Rockhold has already said, if I pull the upset and win this, I will accept nothing short of a UFC title opportunity against Adesanya. Or I won't accept anything moving forward. You can see Luke Rockhold on the Embedded saying he's found his purpose again. The fire has been relit in terms of why he's back, why he's doing this, why he wants to win. Forget the result for a second. What do you expect to see out of this version of Luke Rockhold here? You know,

40's not that far away. He's been inactive. What can we expect in the first time that, you know, we've seen him since a trio of stoppage there in that four-fight run? This is the weirdest main event that I can remember because I just have absolutely no clue how this one's going to play out. We haven't seen Rockhold in a long time. He's coming off that loss to Blachowicz at 205. He's taking some time away from the sport to recover And focus more on his recovery than on training He said that on the UFC Countdown show And then you look at Costa And what happened in that last fight

He shows up, he refuses to make weight To face Marvin Vittori Comes out throwing absolute hammers at Vittori But Vittori's chin is, I think, among the best in the UFC I mean, it's impossible to crack that guy, it seems So I just don't know what version of these guys is going to show up. I understand why Costa's the heavy favorite, especially after him throwing those hammers against Vittori in that last fight. I think if he connects on one of those against Luke Rockhold,

it's going to be tough for him to withstand more than one of those. So I think that's why you see him as such a big favorite. But I just have no idea how this, I don't know how Rockhold's going to look. It's been so long since we've seen him compete. I'm not sure what version of Costa shows up the fight week. I think I'm going to be speaking with him later today, so maybe I'll get a better glimpse of exactly what's going on. But yeah, it's just a very interesting

time for this fight to take place, and weird circumstances all around. Plus 290 is Rockhold, according to Caesars, your underdog. Minus 370, Costa. Before we get into Paulo's journeys as well, as you just sort of teased his own up-and-down run of late, would that be kosher? Considering Adesanya's more or less cleaned out this division,

somebody with the name of Luke Rockhold, if he comes back and beats Paulo Costa, that's a great-ass win for a veteran, a guy with a name, a muscular guy who's very good-looking. You've got to give him his flowers here. Would you be okay with him cutting the line with a win this big? No, absolutely not. I mean, he needs to win again against someone else. I mean, the middleweight division is not super crowded, but at the same time, I think that a win over Paulo Costa.

I mean, Vittori just beat Paulo Costa. I know he's fought Israel already twice, but... That's not how the UFC does it, AB. That's not how they do it. They don't do it that way. Well, this is the interesting thing, because if you look at Israel and his skill set, if you take the Rockhold that was the champion or the Weidman that was the champion, those would be nightmare matchups for him, but those guys are, you know, they're where they are now at their career. Their best days are behind them.

So let's see how it plays out. But, I mean, if he, like, knocks down Paulo Costa and submits him in the first, yeah, maybe we can start talking about that. But I don't know if he jumps the line. And I don't think Costa, with a win over Rockhold, is going to get another shot at Israel anytime soon either. Dude, I think he'll get the title shot. I really do.

I really think the UFC loves doing that. They love putting, you know, oh, let's give Frankie Edgar another title shot. Let's give Dan Henderson at 46. Oh, that's a good storyline. They love that. I think it's time for Izzy to move up. I don't think there's anybody else for him to fight. Okay? That's just my two cents. No one really takes those shekels, those loonies

if I can speak Canadian with you. No one really takes my two cents that seriously, but that's what I got to say. Well, Satuni, actually, if it's two cents. Okay, there you go. There you go. By the way, you needed my help on the math earlier from 2016 to 2022. Were you thinking metric system in your head the whole time?

Yeah, it was very... We don't use numbers here in Canada. We just use letters. So it was very, very complicated stuff for me. Look, here's how I'm going to transition to talking about Paula Costa. I'm going to go through Luke Rockhold. I think since Luke Rockhold won the title at UFC 194, God, 2015, right? Like so long ago against Chris Weidman.

Never been the same. Knocked out three times against very dangerous opponents. But I think the recurring theme for me, and there was one win in between, obviously, against David Branch, was that Rockhold has fought so arrogant. For a guy with that much skill, and go back and watch his greatest hits, he's incredible. He just finds himself in bad situations, wrong moment, wrong time, hands down, chin out. You know what I mean? There's an arrogance to how he fights.

A.B., there's an arrogance to how Paula Costa fights. A.B., there's an arrogance to how Paula Costa fights. And I think that since that egg he laid against Adesanya, which, you know, contains also his reveal afterwards about being up all night drinking wine and not sleeping and all that, like, dude, what the hell happened? I saw him against Vittori. Yeah, he's still dangerous to knock you out. Yeah, he's still tough as nails. But he's now fighting completely ignorant. Like, I don't have a lot of confidence. Not that Polo Costa won't win this fight or won't potentially win it spectacularly. That's what the odds are telling me.

It's probably what's going to happen. But I feel like he's just a little bit off tilt since that Adesanya night. Maybe you can argue he's always been. He's always been a bit of a wild man. But I thought I saw leading up to the title opportunity a more composed wild man. Now I'm a little nervous for him that he's just going to go out there and be like, yeah, I got in good enough shape. Let's just brawl. That's who I think he is moving forward. Do you get any smell of that? Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I don't think that anybody could comfortably bet him as a nearly four to one

favorite, given what we saw during fight week against Vittori maybe maybe once he steps on the scale you can if he's looking like he's in good shape he makes 186 or below then maybe you can comfortably say okay I think he's gonna beat Rockhold and even if he does come out with a brawling mentality against Rockhold that could work I mean like that could that could very well work and result in a first-round finish for Paolo Costa. So, again, that's why this is a weird co-main event for me because I just have no clue how this is going to play out. There's just so many weird things that could happen in this fight. I think that the thing that is most likely to happen

is that Costa gets a knockout early in the fight. It is. If you were to ask me for my prediction, that's how I predict this fight ends. But, I mean. If Rockhold shows glimpses of being the Rockhold of old, and his body's in good shape, and he's able to land a takedown at some point in this fight,

that's the last guy you want on top of you in the middleweight division is Luke Rockhold, because he's so dangerous in every facet of the ground game, and that's always what's made him such a special fighter. Yeah, I fully agree with that. It's the arrogance. That's the issue. He just ends such a special fighter. Yeah, I fully agree with that. It's the arrogance. That's the issue.

He just ends up in bad situations. You might argue, though, that this is the sexiest matchup UFC's ever put together. I mean, I could probably offer you some women's strawweight fights that could equal that. This is a cologne ad. Yeah, it's an all-body team matchup. You know, maybe we can send Canadian wrestling legend Rick Martell into the ring to spray his arrogance cologne all over because it really sums that up. Look, either way, it's going to be must-see TV. I'm interested.

I'm into it. He is. He is still alive. We've checked that. Okay, we've checked his pulse. Great. Thank you. The model himself.

Look, maybe the best fight on the whole damn card. It comes in the overly loaded Bantamweight division that we all love, and it's the legend, the King of Heo, as Luke Thomas won't stop texting me to prove that he thinks he's right. It's Jose Aldo. But when it comes to Russian, Georgian, Moldovian, Eastern European hammers that I've got in my cupboard back here, it may be time to add Marab Davalish-Wheely, who's on a great run of his own. AB, this is not an easy fight for either man. This is a hell of a fight. Is there any chance this is too much too soon for Murab in terms of like, look, you're going to be fighting a skilled, thoughtful, tough-as-nails veteran in the former champ Jose Aldo.

Is this fight closer than sort of the age and the directions they're going may lead you to believe? Well, if it is too much too soon, Jose Ald age and the directions they're going may lead you to believe well if it is too much too soon Jose Aldo is the guy to prove that we saw that against Chido Vera we saw that against Rob Font we saw that I guess against Jeremy Stevens a couple years ago like if you're not ready

Jose Aldo will expose you but Marab the gum machine for a reason I mean this guy is just take down take down take down like rinse, repeat, make your life miserable. And I think in a three-round fight, that really plays to Murab's advantage because he can win two rounds no problem if he's able to get it to the ground. He's one of those guys where if he gets it to the ground, you are in big trouble and are in major danger of losing this fight. It might come down to Jose Aldo having to go for broke in the third round if Murab is able to implement the game plan early on. But like you said early on, like, you know, when you teed this up for me, if you are not ready, Jose Aldo is going to be the person that

exposes you. And I think that's what could happen here to Murab Dvalishvili. Personally, I think Murab rises to the occasion and gets it done in this one. It's going to be interesting. I mean, not only is this division historically great, there are so many matchups right now where you could talk yourself into the idea that the winner with a spectacular performance can cut the line. Sean O'Malley against Jan, probably the best chance to cut that line. But we just saw Chido Vera get a huge win.

If Aldo wins this one, damn, that's four in a row, and you already beat Chido Vera recently. You know, there's also Sanhagen and Song Yedong. I I mean this is not to mention Dillashaw going for the actual title against Sterling so what a time to be alive um for Aldo damn I mean if he could pull this off against a guy on this streak with this gas tank, with this sort of thing, this would be his greatest and most rewarding victory since what? Wow, that's a good question. I mean, the funny thing is he got the title fight against Piotr Janow off a loss to Marlon Bryce.

It was like a controversial decision. So when was the last big win for Jose Aldo? I mean, the last feel-good great win was maybe Jeremy Stevens, you know, where we were like, holy shit, he's back, right? I mean, the win over Frankie Edgar was a big one as well, UFC 200. I mean, that was another one that kind of got him back on the horse after that loss to Conor. So yeah, I mean, maybe that one, but like you said, if he ends up beating Marab, one of the best friends of Aljamain Sterling, a guy who he's never fought, I think Aldo's next in line.

Is he not at his age? He might be. Trying to get that second title? I think if Aldo wins, I mean, obviously we're going to have to see what happens with Dillashaw, but even if Dillashaw wins, a Dillashaw-Aldo fight, who's not watching that? Right? I know Aldo fell short against Piotr Jan, but I think a win here over Marab, he becomes the frontrunner

for the next title shot at Bantamweight, regardless of how that Bantamweight title fight plays out. Wow, and regardless of O'Malley? You don't think he has the edge in the company's eyes right now? O'Malley's got time, right? And the UFC looks at that kind of thing. You know, if O'Malley ends up beating Jan, it would be a massive upset, and I think that it would show that O'Malley's ready. But if you've got Aldo coming off a win over Marab, you have two great matchups that you can make with Sterling and Aldo, TJ and Aldo. You've got to respect the legend. I think that they give Aldo the next shot if he gets a really strong win here. I mean, if it ends up being a close, contentious decision, then of course the balls are thrown back in the air and we see how they land. But I think that Aldo, especially having a win over Chito,

that also adds to that resume. So yeah, it's a good win. Aldo's next in line if he gets a win. Yeah, it's a clean, good ass win that he had over Chito. Whereas like, I love the Chito win over O'Malley, but you still have half the population telling you that's not a real win. I mean, you still have Sean O'Malley telling you it's not a real win. It's a real damn win, okay? If Michael Chandler Brent Primus won is a real win. You know what I'm saying? You get the point.

Vegas has, at Caesars, Aldo plus 110, a slight underdog, minus 130 for Marab. Final question on this matchup. If Davalos Wheelie cannot consistently take this fight to the ground, are there other paths to victory from what you've seen out of him up to this point? You know, not really. I think against a guy like Marlon Marais, he was able to do some good work on the feet. But I think if you're in any sort of stand-up bout against Aldo, and that's not your bread and butter, Aldo will find openings and he'll pick you apart.

So I think that he needs to get this fight to the ground in order to win. If he ends up winning a decision without getting a takedown, I mean, I will be the first guy to admit that I was 100% wrong on that. I just don't see that being a possibility. It's weird. The more you look at the math, you're like, okay, Aldo, rightful underdog,

but there's a few ways he can win this. I mean, look, if you're on your back for half the fight... It's not like Aldo's an easy guy to take down either. Historically, Aldo, rightful underdog. But there's a few ways he can win this. I mean, look, if you're on your back for half the fight. It's not like Aldo's an easy guy to take down either. Like, historically, Aldo's been notoriously difficult to take down, and that's why he was the featherweight champion for so long. But if he does get taken down consistently, then you're like, his gas tank against Marab's, even, you know, it's going to be interesting. Look, we are really, as the days get closer,

hyping up more of the return here of Alexander Romanov. It's a fight against Marching Tybura that I think it did just get bumped down to the prelim main event. Did I read that correctly on Twitter? I didn't see that. All right. We'll have to check back in on that. But here's the deal. Tybura, always a tough out in this division.

You don't want to use the gatekeeper turn, but he does find out if people are ready. Romanov is just coming off that win over Chase Sherman, where he was the biggest favorite in UFC betting history. Although never forget the line that came out for Shevchenko against Nico Montano. Never forget that. Straight up, easy question. How good is Alexander Romanov? He is great. And I mean, this is why I love this matchup because Romanov can implement his game plan where he takes people down and mauls them against almost any heavyweight. But Tybura is not a fish out of water on the ground. Tybura does his best work on the ground. So this is not going to be a situation where Romanov is going to be able to take him down and roll. I think that this is going to be a tough fight for Romanov. And I know Romanov is a massive

favorite here, but I think that Tybura has the skills to make this a difficult matchup for him. If I were to predict how this fight ends, I think it's going to be Romanov by decision, but I don't think he's going to be able to get Tybura out of there on the ground, because I think Tybura is one of the more well-versed fighters in the heavyweight division when it comes to fighting on the ground. So this is going to be a tough matchup for Romanov, because I don't think he's going to be able to roll in the same way as he has against previous opponents, unless he's able to find an early knockout against Tybura. I mean, we've seen Tybura get cracked before, but I think that this is actually a pretty evenly matched fight where I would, you know,

I still think that Romanov is the superior fighter here, but we're going to learn a lot from this fight. And those are my favorite kind of fights. I mean, you know, we may learn just enough that we need to learn through the first two minutes when he finishes, and we'll see what happens. You could take this guy to Suplex City. I think I know where you think this fight's going to end. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. We'll see. Ty Burrow is a tough out, as I mentioned. This is the type of matchup that's right for Romanov at this point. Let's keep stepping up in increments. Look, this division's got some bodies at the top, so he's not going to be getting forced in anyone's face anytime soon. This is the right fight for him.

You even saw him get in love in the Embedded show, working out in the parking lot of the hotel in Salt Lake City. So they're starting to really see what we potentially have here. Looking forward to this fight. AB, I love hanging out with you in real life because we're vinyl enthusiasts, and you've helped really become my shaman in many ways in this category. And you do a great job picking through the crates at the old record shop. Can you pick through the crates of this undercard and find me,

you know, give me one reason to stay here or I'll turn right back around. What should I be watching on this undercard when I'm calling prelims with Keith Thurman for Showtime Championship Boxing on Saturday? That's what I'm talking about, all right? Yeah, one guy I think is an absolute hammer is A.J. Fletcher. Like, I love what this guy brings to the table. He's just always looking for finishes.

And he's against Andrzej Lusa in the early prelims. He's just the guy that I think you should watch out for. I think that he's a very interesting name. And I also love watching Sean Woodson do his thing. And Luis Saldana is going to be an interesting opponent for him. So those are two, if you're going to look at the undercard here, if you're going to look beyond the main card, those are two fights I think are going to really deliver. It's Sean Woodson versus Luis Saldana and AJ Fletcher against Andrzej Lusa. I think those are two fights that if you're looking for something, two fighters that, you know, four fighters that don't have a ton of experience right now in MMA.

You know, in the UFC where you haven't seen a huge sample size, maybe Sean Woodson is the exception there. I think those four fighters are ones to watch. Yeah, Sean Woodson, a fun fighter to watch with those long arms, likes to mix it up. Lexi and you pick through these UFC crates. Reminds me of that time in Vegas that I found, you know, Mr. Fantasy by Traffic for $2.98 in, you know, the double Little Feet Live album waiting for Columbus. I mean, I found some gems that day.

I found the store in Las Vegas. It's taken me years to find the store in Las Vegas. And on my last trip there, I found it. So next time we're in Vegas together, we're trekking out to the middle of nowhere to this story. Yes. Yeah, we're going ham on that. Miranda Maverick always jumps off the screen when I see her in the potential. Back on the win streak after those back-to-back defeats there, she's going to have a test here at Women's Flyweight against Shayna Young.

Are you high on Maverick still since it's early? We accept a few losses here. Still going in the right direction now? I think so, but this is the problem. If I recall, Shannon Young is now being coached by Saif Saoud. And when you see somebody coached by Saif Saoud as like a 4-1 underdog, you know, that's a little bit tricky. Because I think Miranda Maverick has all the skills to win this fight, but I don't think that it's ever a wise move to bet against Saif Saoud and his

fighters at that kind of a price. Always giving us, putting money back in our pockets there. It's Aaron Bronstetter, Tyson Pedro, Harry Humbuckler as well on that card. What were you saying? Money back in the safe, pun intended. That's what I'm saying. Let's move over to topic number three. It surrounds the PFL. They'll be back with PFL 9 this Saturday. Get to that in a second, but they made major news just a couple days ago when Shane Burgos arrived on the scene in person with Ariel Hawane at the MMA Hour in New York

City to announce that he has signed a free agent deal to jump to the PFL. We ended up getting a colorful Dana White reaction with Kevin Aioli that we'll get to in a second, but here's what Burgos told Ariel That was the last fight of my deal, meaning his last one with the UFC. I said after that fight, I wanted to test free agency, test the waters. I know what I'm worth. I wanted to see what everyone else thought I was worth. So I went

out there. I tested it. I'm excited to announce this signing. It was not an easy decision. It was an offer I couldn't turn up. I've got two daughters. I've got to go back home. I've got to look them in the face when it's all said and done in this sport. With this deal, I feel like I will secure that. Not taking anything away from my UFC career. 11 fights. That was the dream when I was 14. I saw it for the first time on TV when I was 12, etc.

etc. But in the end, look, he made this decision for the family. He's had no hard feelings to the UFC. Dana categorizes this as an error. We'll get to that, like I said. But how big for PFL, AB, is getting somebody still with a lot of gas in the tank in Burgos?

Dude, not only is it a great signing, it comes at the perfect time for the PFL. Because if you look at their matchups that ended up being the finales in the lightweight division, welterweight division, heavyweight division, I mean, lightweight division is still pretty good. You got two former UFC guys. You got Stevie Ray and Olivier Abon-Mercier.

But let's be real. Last weekend's card was a gong show. You have two guys, Denis Goldsov and Magomed Umalatov, who basically are not allowed to compete because they're Russian athletes and the card's happening in Wales. Have those guys fight at MSG. You're doing a card at MSG. If you know that there's a chance these guys aren't getting visas and they're two of the two favorites, really, in those divisions. To me, I thought that now you have a welterweight finale between a guy who is a

reserve, Dylan O'Taylor, great fighter. I mean, I'm not trying to put the guy down. You have him in the finale, and you look at the heavyweight finale. Juan Adams comes in. He ends up losing. You end up having the protege from CoCop, Ante Deligia. Ante Deligia? I want to make sure I'm getting his name right. Delia, I think. Delia. Delia, yeah. You have him against Mateusz Schäffel. These are finales that are not really turning anybody's heads. And I think that that's really problematic. When you have the

two favorites have to basically bow out because of visa issues. They've earned their way to try to win a million dollars, and now because of that, they're out. So I thought that was a bad look for them. And now they bring on Shane Burgos. Timing couldn't be better because people are going to forget about that and talk about what a great signing Burgos is. And that is a great signing.

Burgos, I think he says that he's likely going to do it at 155. I think that's great for him. That's the way to do it because I think 155 is a weaker division in the PFL than 145. And I also think that for a guy that walks around at like 190, you're going to have to cut weight that many times in concession. I think him moving to 55 is a much better move than trying to, you know, cut off 30 pounds every time he wants to make 45 on so many occasions.

It's just really bad for his body. But I mean, Burgos now has a chance to win a million dollars next season. And I think that you'd have to call him the favorite, regardless of what the field is, pretty much, unless they make some other big splash before the tournament starts. And it was weird hearing Dana White say yesterday, you know, we made a big mistake not keeping him.

But also, you know, congratulations to the PFL. Congratulations to Shane Burgos. He's happy for both of them. That was weird to do the congratulations to the PFL. Is that like an inner ESPN handshake that just happened? That might be the first time he's ever mentioned the PFL. Like, aside from maybe when Kayla Harrison's come up. Yeah, that's interesting.

As you sort of stated, this is a Burgos who at 31 is still right in the midst of the best that he can be. 15-3 overall has won two straight over Billy Q and Charles Jordan since that two-fight losing streak, which, you know, there was some devastation in there going life or death with Emmitt, and then he got stopped by Barbosa. But he's looked good on the comeback, and I think that's what's fueled Dana's very honest, let's give Dana credit, his very honest reaction.

So he sat down with Kevin Aioli yesterday. It was a very expletive-filled rant, as you might expect. Not a lot of comeback from Iola. They're just giving him the chance to rant. But the specific quote against Burgos here was, how do I answer that question? Basically, there were some mistakes that were made here. Some shit that, look, he should have still been here.

I respect him very much and I wish him the best. 100% big mistakes were made over here. What does that mean? Does that mean that somebody tried to bring a contract re-up for Burgos to Dana's desk and it just, the communication didn't happen and he wasn't aware that it ran out? I mean, I don't know. What does that mean? Yeah, I'm thinking he just didn't get that final rubber stamp that was needed, where they go to Dana and say, this is how it's going to be. We either accept these terms or we let him walk. Maybe they just, somebody unilaterally decided to let them walk. I don't really know the details. That would be my guess. But it seems like Dana was pretty disappointed that a fun fighter like Shane Burgos is going

elsewhere. That's the kind of guy you want to have in the UFC. These are guaranteed a fun fight when Shane Burgos is standing on one side of the cage. Quick, quick note on the rest of that dana rant from mr aioli there of yahoo in which it was brought up the comments that dana made on that done that fun gq clip that made the rounds this week that became a a story in fact espn.com our our respected uh fellow journalist mark ray mundy wrote essentially a story using dana's comments about fighter pay from that piece now dana's now saying that piece was completely edited, and you're an asshole if you believe that the things he specifically said were specific about fighter pay, meaning never in my time will we see the changes.

And what he really meant, he says, was that never in my time will you see UFC become like boxing, which he says, overbloated salaries, no shows make money, blah, blah, blah. His quote about that story of ESPN was, I didn't see the story. I don't even know who wrote it, but you're not a journalist. You're a fucking scumbag. A.B.,

what the hell do we do with that? Well, I mean, I think the cardinal rule is, if you don't want to be quoted, don't say something. I mean, you know, I understand that there was a fun tenor to that interview. But again, like if you say something, you can get quoted. Now, was that did they edit it together like, you know, old hard copy where you're like you take a quote, you make it mean something it doesn't. I don't know. I don't know what the tone of the interview was, but I do know that you are going to, if you're going to say something, anybody is free to quote you. That's just kind of the way it works. Yeah. Like you get his argument. His argument is that I didn't specifically say that about that, but the rest of his comments about fighter pay weren't all that attractive anyway. He's like, they get paid what they deserve. They kill what they eat. Do they, do they really? I don't think so, but yeah, whatever, whatever. I'm just a scumbag. That's it, right?

I guess so. But you were in that video, right? The hatchet piece? Yeah, I starred in that video. I got a SAG, I got benefits from that. I understand that he's angry about it, but at the same time, I just don't know what could have been done. I guess what could have been done differently is they could have reached out to Dana for comment. But, I mean, I don't know if they would have gotten one. I mean, who knows? I mean, that's a good point. And you didn't even know who wrote it.

If you say something and you get quoted, that's kind of the nature of the beast. I'm kidding. I love Mark Ray Mundy. Not a scumbag at all. PFL 9 is going to go down, as I mentioned, this Saturday. Copper Box Arena in London as the PFL UK Tour continues. Kayla Harrison

in the main event, Women's Lightweight Semifinals. The other matchup is Larissa Pacheco versus Olena Kolesnik, but Kayla Harrison's going to return against Martina Jindrova. AB, I'm trying to be really honest here. I don't think Kayla wants to be in the PFL anymore I don't think she's all that excited about this

I think she took the deal because they had the rights to match it she's aggressively trying to get Cyborg into a pay-per-view fight next year is there any foundation here built for a trap tournament for Kayla? I mean, she's a destroyer.

She's big time better than the opponents in this bracket. I just don't get the feeling like she wants to be here at this point in her career, even with the million dollars. Well, she's frustrated. I mean, she wants the big fights, and the big fights are unavailable. Now, I think Jindrova's a good opponent. I think that Kayla's probably gonna win, but I just don't think people respect Larissa Pacheco enough. Like, that's the weird thing about it.

Like, I think Pacheco against Cyborg would be a competitive fight. Uh, she's really evolved over time, but at the same time, we've seen Kayla beat Larissa Pacheco already, and the expectation's always gonna be that Kayla Harrison's gonna beat Larissa Pacheco. I just personally think that that's actually going to be a close fight.

Like, I think if that ends up being the finale, I'm excited for that fight, because I think Larissa Pacheco has gotten a lot better since the first time that they fought. Not that Kayla hasn't, but I think that that actually is a very competitive fight. Now, I can see where Kayla's coming from. I think that her coming back to the PFL

was kind of predicated on them being able to get Cyborg to sign on the dotted line, and it doesn't look like Cyborg and her camp has any interest in signing with the PFL. And they've said, if you want to do a cross-promotional fight with Bellator, don't, you know, that doesn't take place on Twitter. That takes place behind closed doors. You call Bellator and you try to set that up. Now, a PFL versus Bellator card would be very captivating. I think that's interesting, but there's a lot of hurdles to clear. You've got different rights holders everywhere.

So here's my solution. I thought about this. I haven't said this anywhere. So you're going to get the... Give it to me. This thought is going to get put out in the stratosphere. If I'm the PFL and I'm Bellator,

what you do is you have a pay-per-view, a bet between Kayla and Cyborg. And each of them gets to back their horse. So if you're the PFL, you say, if you think Kayla's going to win, you order this on ESPN+. And if she wins,

you get $5 back on your purchase. Does it work like this? And if you're Showtime and Bellator, you say, if you think Cyborg's going to win, you order this on Showtime pay-per-view. And if Cyborg wins, you get $5 back off of your purchase. And then you co-promote this pay-per-view with both parties involved, ESPN+, or however PFL's going to be distributing their pay-per-views.

I'm not sure if it's going to be ESPN+, or if it's going to be OTT platforms, or whatever. But do it that way, and then make it a big fun thing. Make it into a big spectacle, and incentivize people to buy the pay-per-view that way, that's the way that I would do it personally, and I think that that is a fight that hopefully can get made, but it seems like Cyborg doesn't want to fight in MMA anywhere besides Bellator right now, it seems like she's made that pretty clear, she's happy, she says she considers Scott Coker to be family, so really the only way you can make that fight right now is cross promotion. But the PFL is planning on launching this big pay-per-view division, and I don't really see a pay-per-view opponent for Kayla Harrison right now

that would bring in any dineros personally. No, unless there's some free agent pickup. I mean, look, they signed Julia Budd, former Bellator champion for this season, and she had some setbacks. It didn't go the way we thought in her building up and getting to this point. I like what you're saying about Larissa Pacheco, though, who's in the other semifinal on Saturday. Just from this standpoint, she's won four straight since her second loss to Harrison.

She fought Harrison twice in the 2019 season, including in the championship. Although she lost those, she did take Harrison the distance in both fights. I got, you know, the second one being a five-rounder, so there's something there. And this season, Pacheco's got two first-round TKOs, so maybe for the final, we'll see. I'm not completely just saying Martina

Jindrova has no chance, but it's like, if Kayla gets to next year, and they can't make that Cyborg fight, and there's no other viable opponents, even with the million dollars at stake, you're going to look at this two-year window and be like, not a waste, but

I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. It's interesting, right? Well, it seems like Kayla wants something that they can't deliver, and that's going to be a permanent hiccup. The way that I, when Kayla signed, I said they should have just done two tournaments. You do a 45 and 55 women's tournament, and you have Kayla do both and just capitalize on her earnings.

She can make like $5 million a year. Is she going to say no to that? At that point in time, you don't worry about quality of opponent. But the thing that just upsets me about it is that I think that Larissa Pacheco is just not getting enough respect. Not enough people know who she is. And I think that that fight is almost as competitive as a Cyborg versus Harrison fight at this juncture. I really do think Pacheco has a moment to that level. You don think that that fight is maybe, is almost as competitive as a Cyborg versus Harrison

fight at this juncture. I really do think Pacheco has it all to that level. Oh, you don't mean that. You don't mean that. I mean, come on. I mean, it's a nice statement, but you don't actually mean that, A.B. I do. I know you. I think Pacheco is that good. I think that she has an incredible amount of power in her striking. I honestly do. I'm not trying to pump the tires of the PFL. If I didn't believe it, I wouldn't say it. I just think that Pacheco is a really solid fighter and is the next best thing to Cyborg that Harrison can have. I just don't think that enough people know it. Does PFL air on TSN in Canada? It does. There's a correlation here. No, I are. Okay, so give me an answer then. Outside of the UFC right now,

because you're not going to get a Nunes fight, there's not going to be a PFL UFC co-promotion, who's the next biggest opponent, the most competitive opponent for Kayla Harrison outside of Cyborg? It's got to be, I think it's got to be Pacheco. She's the best, the next best option in this situation. True. If that's the final, she's the best available opponent. So let's see if they both get there.

I'm not jumping through hoops with excitement. I will say the statistics, the recent memory show she would be the – look, she's got knockout power. That's a big thing. She'll be the underdog for sure. But she's got knockout power. So you have an avenue. But Tate was like a plus 500 underdog.

I mean, that's good value. Okay. We'll see what happens. They both got to get past it. In the featherweight bracket, it's going to be Chris Wade versus former Dana White contender series. Uh, Brendan Loughnan, who famously didn't get the contract when he wrestled, but has really starting to become something on this side of the fence. You also have Ryoji Kudo against Bubba Jenkins. Are any of those four jumping out to you as the favorite entering the semifinals? I think it would probably be Chris

Wade. If I had to pick a winner in this bracket overall, I think Chris Wade ends up winning the million dollars. Ryoji Kudo is interesting, though, because that guy's got some pretty sick power. Like we saw that in his last fight and he's kind of come out of nowhere. He's the dark horse of this tournament, in my opinion, because I think that guy can sling. All right. There it is, PFL 9 this Saturday. I think it's going to be in the afternoon. I mean, look, that just adds to the craziness of this weekend. We got Usyk Joshua in the afternoon.

We got PFL. Somewhere in London, they're doing bare knuckle with Mike Perry. We got boxing at night. We got UFC. What a time, AB. What a time, right? What a time to be alive right now. Combat sports is just en fuego.

I mean, you could have put some of this stuff next weekend, but that's just me talking right? What a time to be alive right now. Combat sports is just on fuego. I mean, you could have put some of this stuff next weekend, but that's just me talking. But what a time to be alive. A.B., we hope that the fine people that watch this show believe in you the same way they've believed in us when we're talking about the World MMA Awards. Reminder that A.B. is up for Best MMA Journalist. Your favorite show's host's favorite show, Morning Combat, also up for best MMA journalist. Your favorite shows,

hosts, favorite show, Morning Combat, also up for best MMA programming. You can vote for both by going to the QR code below or worldmmawards.com slash nominees. Aaron Bronstetter, where can people find you

if they want to connect with you in a much more intimate way? At Aaron Bronstetter on Twitter is where most of my content ends up. So, you know, please feel free to follow me there. And if you want to go and see where all of my platforms are, you can go to www.aaron.report

and you can find all of my work in one spot. You weren't turned off by my suggestion that the listeners could get a little bit more intimate with you if they wanted to. Well, I haven't launched that website just yet, but, you know, it's called OnlyPipes.com. It's going to be a massive Canadian OnlyFans. Yeah, there it is right there.

Aaron Bronson of TSN, a man of the people. We love you in these parts. Thank you for sliding in today, sir. Yes, sir. My pleasure. Anytime you need me. I'm only a direct message or text away. Yeah.

Am I allowed to text you under U.S.-Canadian texting laws? Yeah. You know, it's iMessage, so the SMS fees are no longer an issue. You have an iPhone? Yeah. Let's go. Team Blue.

Okay. We should be hanging out on that level. Now, no stick pics, though, but there you go. Aaron Bronstetter. No promises. Thank you. Topics four and five this week

are going to dip heavy into the box. So, you know I had to go to the bullpen and call in one of the most educated, brilliant, and frankly, crustiest boxing minds I know. My former co-host in many podcast iterations, many times from, you know, the ropes on Grantland through our snapchat bonanza through in this corner and state of combat on cbs sports he's uh my brethren in the box i don't even know if he still even likes boxing but i am interested in talking to him just the same we got a big fight this weekend he's been a day one ish usic fan can i bring in from detroit with

love the new york York Times bestselling author. He's not a ginger, although he may play one on TV. It's Rafe Bartholomew. Do I have him here on the magic of Zoom? Yes. I am feel, I am here. It's great to see you, my brother. It is great to see you. My brother Noomspa is great to see you. Does anybody else hear him? We are having issues. All right. I mean, I can delay this a little and talk about athletic greens. We good, we good, Brian.

Oh, we're off to that great start. You know how we do. I am here. Yeah. I don't hear you anymore. This is on brand. This is really on do. I am here. Yeah. I don't hear you anymore. This is on brand. This is really on brand. I've been doing this.

I've been unmuting, Brian. Okay. Okay. You remuted for a hot second. It wasn't me. Thank you. You saw it on the counter. It wasn't me, Brian.

I saw the apple pie with the hole in the middle. It was interesting. Bugs, you know I love you apple pie with a hole in the middle. It was interesting. Bugs, you know I love you. Do you still love this game? That's what our old podcast people want to know. Brian, of course I still love this game. It's impossible to be, I don't know, quite at the level of hardcore. My

hardcore card isn't as shiny maybe as it once was, but there's nothing like boxing. And beside that, we got Usyk this weekend. You know that I have been deep on that bandwagon for a long time, and I'm excited about this fight. We've also got Lippin yet, so you know he's one of my guys right there as well. Big week for the Kazakhs, just the same.

We'll get into that. You've hurt yourself. Are you all right? I mean, Tyson Fury said before the second wilder fight that, you know, you masturbate seven times a day. Okay. This is, this is what happens when you go for a new record. When you go for eight, this is what happened. No, Brian, they call it a boxer's fracture. And then when you go into the hand surgeon, they say, but real boxers never get it because they know how to punch right. So don't punch doors. Don't get into fights with FedEx people on the phone.

Don't be like me. Wow. Wow. Okay. Just the same there. I hope you're recovering. Detroit, do you still work for Texas Monthly? Yeah, I am.

I'm editing sports as well as narrative features for Texas Monthly magazine. Working on a narrative podcast, too, about the Texas Rangers. The law enforcement outfit, not the baseball. Not Juan Gonzalez, two-time MVP. Not after Chris Woodward. It'll be all right. I've been there, bro. Rafe, you're, you know, I mean, I've got a lot of, I'm in a few marriages.

My lovely wife, Jennifer, Luke Thomas, you know, but, you know, you're one of my favorite people in this world. Can I introduce you to another partner of mine? I would love for you to do that. You know it's all love here. We're all in the family. It's the green miracle drink right here. It's called Athletic Greens.

And Rafe, you've known me a long time. I don't eat clean. You eat very dirty, disgustingly dirty. I'm trying to make a change. Because it's up to us as a people to start making some changes. And here's something I use literally every day. It's one scoop of the green magic powder because I wanted better gut health. I wanted more energy and I hated taking those pills and vitamins, bro. Well, Brian, you know me. I mean, I, when it comes to the athletic greens, I am not only a client. I'm the player president here.

All right? We love it. It doesn't taste too healthy. And, you know, it's got this little tropical zing, this taste that I look forward to when I wake up. That's what. Look, I got it. I got it on hand. I paid for this with my own money, and I'm enjoying it.

All right. You know what I like best about the price? Yes. So what is this stuff they say? How about one delicious scoop every morning, and you'll be absorbing 75 high-quality vitamins, minerals, whole-sourced superfoods, whole food sourced, probiotics, adaptogens, all the stuff you can't pronounce, but it helps you start your day right.

Doesn't it? Oh, yeah. I mean, that special blend, forget the Folgers crystals. I mean, this special blend of ingredients supports my gut health, nervous system, immune system, energy, focus, recovery, and aging. And boy, I'm 40 now. I'm washed, so I need it. Coming soon, libido help. Just the just the same yes uh look it's so easy to use that i take it with me on the road i use it during my live streams to stay you know up and ready i mean look people have said rafe hey bc you can keep hawking this product but we know that you're slowly dying maybe it's the ag1 that's keeping me alive though. Okay. Think about it. Think about it. Yeah. Look, I mean, our back in better days, triple G said I eat steak every day. Well, me,

it's, it's so convenient with these athletic greens. I'll start traveling with it. I, I eat green every day. Okay. All right. It's lifestyle friendly, whether you're keto, paleo, vegan, dairy-free, gluten-free, whatever you got going on, it contains less than one gram of sugar, no GMOs, no nasty chemicals, no artificial anything, while still tasting good. And it costs you less than $3 a day if you're investing in your health and it's cheaper than your cold brew habit. I mean, who really has a cold brew habit? You got that soda pop habit. I know, I know what you've been doing with that red drink. I know it, okay, but here's the deal. Taking it every day is

a small micro habit with big benefits. It's one thing that you can do right now to take care of yourself, but don't just ask me, right, Rafe? Athletic Greens has over 7,000 five-star reviews and is trusted by leading health experts such as Tim Ferriss and Michael Gervais. Amazing. To make it easy, here's the deal. Go to athleticgreens.com right now slash morningcombat. And AG1 is going to give you a free one-year supply of immune-supporting vitamin D and those five free travel packs that I use all the time on the road. All you have to do is hit that website, athleticgreens.com slash morningcombat. There it is.

Okay? Again, that is – again, again, Brian, that is athleticgreens.com slash morningcombat to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. I follow directions. Thank you very much. Verbatim, there it is. Thank you to our partners.

All right, look, the big fight this weekend goes down late afternoon on the East Coast on Saturday, but it's going to be over in Jeddah. It's like the Red River shootout. What are they calling it, Rafe? What are they calling this fight? I mean, I always go back to the road to Jeddah. To me, it's just Usyk Joshua 2 or Joshua Usyk 2.

There you go. There's some theme name. Who cares about it? All that matters is inside that ring when Alexander Usyk, the former undisputed Cruiserweight champion, makes the first defense or looks to of his three heavyweight world titles that he won in 2021 on the road in the backyard. Tottenham Hotspur Stadium there against Anthony Joshua, AJ. Rafe, the beauty of you and I doing this podcast today is it was more you than me, but I certainly came around. You're looking, if people are watching, they're looking at a day one-ish Alexander Usyk fan.

And you and I got so high on this man that I once walked up to Eddie Hearn. You remember that in New York City? I told you about it. And I said, Eddie, I love you, but Usyk's coming and he's going to beat your boy AJ. Well, Rafefe it happened first how surprised were you 2021 when this actually all went down no Brian I wouldn't say that I was surprised but I also wasn't someone who was like so high on the Usyk hype train especially at heavyweight because that was a big leap we had seen him look incredible at cruiser

weight and unify all the belts and just you know win incredible like putting great performances against morad gassiev in the world boxing superstars all that but then fighting up that high in weight against such a larger man who in aj you know, I think, unfairly rated, especially here in the States. The Andy Ruiz performance, that first loss, and just AJ's attitude, he comes off as a little too happy-go-lucky. He's got that golden boy. And I mean that as an intentional Oscar de la Hoya reference. When he loses, the same way after Oscar lost to to trinidad it's like oh you know great for him i'm so i'm just happy to be here and people fans don't like seeing that especially

here in the states um but still i thought it was a dangerous fight for usik as much as i believed in him i didn't know if he could pull that off and watching it that it was just it felt like everything was coming together the the you know the the fighter that we believed Usyk could be as a heavyweight, he actually executed it. And no matter how talented a fighter is, it doesn't always work out that way. No, absolutely. I mean, this was a brilliant performance.

I think to your point, like you mentioned, everything came together. And the everything also includes not getting screwed on the cards, right? The everything also includes, and Luke Thomas and I re-watched this fight that people can catch it on youtube.com slash morning combat and get our you know in the moment reflections looking back but i think you look back on this the problem in my eyes for aj was that he came in thinking he can outbox the smaller man and he didn't necessarily make the right adjustments or playing into the role as the bigger man,

the bigger, stronger, you know, leaning, doing some of that Vlad Klitschko versus Povetkin type of stuff. We didn't see any of that out of him. That it did sort of make for a perfect storm that if Usyk could come in, dazzle in the way he did, not get stopped because the one thing we said about him, we know he doesn't have top-end heavyweight power, but does he have a top-end heavyweight chin to get to this point? Well, look, his heavyweight debut was kind of, you know, late

replacement was a snoozer. Then he fights Derek Chisora, where there's a lot of good, but he also had a deal with a physical, real heavyweight in Del Boy and dealt with it. I don't think he in the end fought what would have been the best showing of AJ

for different reasons it created a perfect storm it was a brilliant performance but would you agree with me that you exited that first fight going man shout out to Usyk because damn was he brilliant because he had to establish early that he could hurt AJ

and I think he did establish that but I never saw AJ just like in the Andy Ruiz rematch go into that gear that said no matter what I'm biting down digging in and winning this fight is that an accurate portrayal from your eyes of the first fight yeah look absolutely Brian especially I mean you mentioned it that first round Usyk the southpaw comes out and landed what three really right on the button straight lefts that that made that made the fight play out especially over those first four rounds that Usyk really really dominated I think he swept them I don't

think that's a controversial opinion um and I think that it you know it said that he was going to dictate and he really did uh control the action in terms of you know ring generalship the best punches landed through most of the fight, especially that first half. And that is where I think AJ probably made a mistake. Now, we could all, maybe he had it, maybe AJ intended on coming out and being the boss that night last year,

and it just didn't work out that way. So we, but it didn't play out that way in the ring. So Usyk either took it for him from him or AJ made that mistake. And I think what we've seen the people who've had some success against Usyk has come early. They haven't let Usyk establish his rhythm right away. That was who Tony Bellew. Bellew did it by being more cagey, counterpunching, fighting off the ropes. AJ can't do that. That's not, AJ would be insane to do that. That's not going to be this.

Chisora showed something that maybe AJ can implement in a more athletic, less sort of wild man Chisora fashion, where he used his bulk and his strength and bum-rushed Usyk. And really, although I don't think Usyk was in the kind of trouble that, like, if you listen to the British broadcast of those fights, they're like, Derek Chisora might pull this off again all right mates chill um but you know he was he didn't let Usyk bang it full of cortisone and get on with it okay he didn't

let Usyk get his get his rhythm going Usyk it took a little longer for Usyk to sort of weather that storm wait out Chisora let Chisora uh, you know, shoot a little bit of his load watch. Whoa, whoa, whoa. We know what we're dealing with here, Brian, don't we? No, and look, I think AJ will, I think it's likely that AJ will try and do that. He'll try and be more aggressive. He won't give away those early rounds or he won't want to.

But can he, can he, but can he take them? Can he be more aggressive and successful in that early in the fight? And if he does, AJ has stamina problems. Is that going to come back to bite him later in the fight? AJ doesn't have the—it's weird. You started off saying an interesting statement of, like, maybe the American fans won't fully give AJ his due. And I think that's right. We are we naturally skeptical to begin with of that big UK star always right.

Come to Vegas and prove it. But also, look, he's he he learned on the job. Right. He came into that title opportunity against Prince Sir Charles Martin early. Then suddenly he's the champion learning on the job. The fact that every single win had sort of these pockets of vulnerability going back to the first Dillian White fight, even the first couple rounds against Carlos Tackham of all people, he got rocked. He is going to be who he is. He's going to be vulnerable, but not a direct comparison to Lennox Lewis. But what did Lennox Lewis do that at the end of the day made it hard to to play that same american stereotype against

he got up off the canvas after being stopped by two guys in title fights and came back and knock them both out now aj didn't do that in the reese rematch he safely boxed him from distance and maybe that's part of why he still carries a certain level of criticism whereas like we all know fury's better if he could just get in the ring with him. Maybe all that's true. But AJ still has really tried to round out his game and become a good boxer. He gets up off the canvas like he did against Vladimir and kept coming back and found a way to win. I think when he looks back at this fight, all the things that we said are true about what he didn't do or couldn't do or should have done. And we'll get into the change now in trainer that has become a dominant theme in this rematch but one thing we cannot overlook Rafe is that Usyk and I harped on this when we did the

rewatch of the fight with Luke he had to take some bombs of his own especially in those middle rounds when AJ came on in order to stand in there and win this fight the way he did and Usyk did he not in the post-fight interview after the win say, you may have not noticed it, but I got hurt. There's a couple of those counter shots, especially that straight right hand when AJ figured it out in the middle of this fight, where Usyk had to bite down to get there. Maybe he's a better poker player than people realized.

But in theory, as we head into this rematch, if we get a more offensive and dangerous and confident aj who at the very least is saying i can't outbox him i now know that but i might be able to outfight him this fight could be an entirely different story and i think that's what fuels the intrigue the second time around no absolutely i mean and you saw in the middle left by rounds five and six when aj found a home for that right hand those were serious punches and forget what Usyk says after the fight yes he admitted it himself but it's not just that Brian look at him in that fight I mean he was cut above the eye I think that

one was not from a punch but still he was roughed up too and and that's just what's going to happen fighting 12 rounds with and giving up the amount of size that he was to just a much naturally bigger heavyweight in Anthony Joshua, who can punch. And when he lets his hands go, has a lot of power. All right. He didn't always in a position where he has to survive a couple rounds, tread water, figure out some way to get through and catch a second wind. Because if he doesn't take that risk, I don't know if he's going to be able to do something else that throws Usyk off, that gives Usyk a reason to just go out and fight his fight. Yeah, no question about it. Now, look, this rematch will take place Saturday afternoon

on regular DAZN, not on DAZN pay-per-view, and it was a last-minute sort of contract securing. You saw some reports that ESPN tried to make a bid to get this fight. I'm sure there's a big site fee. If we remember, AJ went to Saudi Arabia for the Ruiz rematch, and didn't he make like $80 million just to show up up it was almost like Floyd Mayweather Pacquiao here's with the 100 million dollar check just just to step into the ring not bad work if you can get it now look the Robert Garcia thing is going to be big Rob McCracken out the old AJ team out he made a big change here this

could change a lot but even before I get into that, some Fight Week comments spilling in. AJ says it was ultimately the southpaw nature of Usyk that gave him trouble. That if Usyk was a righty, he would have knocked him out. You buy that?

Does that make sense? AJ says I've always had issues with lefties and it really just came out in this fight. Brian, I don't buy that, BC. Like, this is the thing with AJ, and I think this goes back to, this is another sort of quiet reason why fans here have a hard time,

and just a lot of fans have a hard time really believing in AJ, because for all of his attributes, for all, for his size, his, you know, his power,

the, the just clear natural athlete that he is. The fact that he is a good guy who seems to want to learn all of that. He has a little bit of the, and the longtime boxing fans will know what I mean. He has a little bit of, I hate to say this, a little bit of Victor Ortiz in him, right? The welterweight one-time champion. Not all the way, right? I mean, but the way you

could put a microphone in front of Victor Ortiz and have no clue what universe the words that were about to come out of his mouth were emerging from and what sort of thin like sense of reality he was pulling it from and and AJ has that where he will just say something that sounds so clueless and crazy like oh it's because it's because he was a southpaw get groceries delivered across the GTA from real Canadian superstore with PC express shop online for super prices and super savings try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit Superstore.ca to get started. You think that was the idea?

I hope he's watched that fight more than like the three, four, five times most fans or we have. Because I think you could watch that and be like, it isn't just because this man is left-handed that he, you know, his movement gave you trouble, that his face gave you trouble, that he out-thought you, that he came in and sort of took the fight from you early on, that his motor basically wore you down, even after AJ really stood up a little bit and had a little bit of a comeback. First in the fifth and sixth when he was landing the right, upstairs, and then later nine and ten had some some body shots that looked like they they also

got to Usyk a little bit but eventually Usyk had more in the gas tank to close that strike fight strong and have AJ really looking almost out on his feet in the 12th um you know if you think it's just because of the left hand you're you are you hand, you need to get a VO head check. Put some face lube on that thing. Well, that's a perfect transition here, which you mentioned the body shots. When I rewatched it with Luke Thomas, he kept saying, not enough body shots. He was right. There were little moments when he had success there, and you're like, that's how you slow down in Usyk.

Since joining forces with Robert Garcia, the great Mexican-American Southern California trainer, who is, if he has one great skill, along with being an offensive style of coach, I think it's taking someone who's talented but a little raw, think Marcos Maidana heading into those Floyd fights, and just carve, you know, almost what Trevor Whitman's doing on the MMA side, and you may not be as jived into the skinhead. What are we talking about here i like it though yeah but going to the body with a robert garcia as your trainer sounds like a great idea did you

see the promotional videos or whatever that are coming on social media of robert holding the bags and aj just digging for gold it's like you, you know, Emmanuel Stewart, what's up? To the body, son! This could change everything if you are getting an aggressive AJ who's looking to set the pace and tone and is willing to get not dirty but grimy. It's got to fuel your advice that really this second fight could be completely different, your perception of what it could be.

It could be, Brian. But if you look back at that first fight, why do we think that AJ managed to have a little bit more success to the body later in the fight? I don't think it's because he had no idea that he might want to try and attack the body of a much faster-footed opponent. I think it's because Usyk was just way too fast

and was in and out before AJ could really do much to him in that regard I don't know if that's really going to change in that fight in in this fight I he I think that AJ should try if he you know if he like that should be on his checklist but that but that's a tall order to ask against one of, I mean, one of the best movers at heavyweight we've seen in this era. And just has, Usyk's got quite a, just a beautiful set of wheels on him. I mean, what a, you know, just, he's got legs and he knows how to use them, Brian. Yeah, he's got, you know, he doesn't have Pacquiao-sized calves, but as Triple G once said, I like beautiful guys, and his style

is certainly one of them. Look, stakes couldn't be higher. Three of the four belts. In theory, the winner's going to advance on to face Tyson Fury. In theory. We'll find out. We want an undisputed champion, one face, one name, all that stuff.

For AJ, it's another chance at redemption, and it would be a big one here, especially if he can make it a different fight. Is there any part of you that looks at Usyk and says, okay, AJ didn't, in all reality, AJ did not have enough success or enough sustained success in the first fight to really have a chance at one of those robbery scorecards,

or if not robbery, one of those robbery scorecards or if not robbery one of those man did they give him the benefit of the doubt in every round i mean look coming into that some of our some of the predictions i predicted usic would win but some of the predictions are like your eyes will tell you usical one but typical boxing aj will get a majority decision win i have to believe things will be closer in the rematch. I think AJ will fight better. I think the Robert Garcia relationship is a smart one. Is there any part of you that would advise Team Usyk to come in here, not looking to get 12 rounds in a second win, but to come in here and find out whether that chin of AJ will be up to the level of the balls that he'll need to win this? Because you wouldn't outright call AJ chinny, but he's vulnerable and nobody hits more direct.

As we saw early in that fight, then, then, then Usyk, whether it's a straight left, whether it's the looping variety that he took Bell you out with, what if Usyk just says, I got to go out there and get it. Is that in play? I don't, I don't see Usyk going out there with that exact mindset, but I think that he won't be afraid to try and seize an advantage if he really sees that AJ is hurt.

And I think that, I mean, look, I might call AJ chinny. He's about as close to chinny as you can get without being out and out. Like, I don't know about that guy's chin um he does not and even when he isn't hurt by a by a shot it seems like he is discouraged every time he gets punched and it's it's boxing right it's boxing at the highest level you're fighting an olympic world champion a guy who is undefeated who is who is unified at cruiserweight who already beat you he's gonna touch you all right so AJ kind of I don't know if it's more mental with him or he's just or if it's mental in the terms of he gets discouraged when he's not having success when

he feels a guy starting to hit him or if he's worried about the chin uh because of the Andy Ruiz fight and some of the other times we've seen him rocked and shaken by a by a shot here and there whatever it is he doesn't uh react respond well when he gets hit and and and you could see like AJ no matter how all the things that he brings into the fight there's this as a fan there's a sense that watching him he's going to like oh over the course of 12 rounds he can find a way to like the let the wheels come off almost no you know like like by hook or by crook which is unfortunate because he's a very very good fighter um i think that usik uh i could see him getting that stoppage you're talking about bc if aj really really steps on the gas early which might be something he has to do to win but the risk of that you know along with the questions about AJ's chin whether he's chinny or just a

little bit chinny uh his stamina right we've always seen AJ get tired at points in a fight and when he gets tired he then he really looks chinny and that is when I could see you know Usyk not rocking him with one giant shot that ends a fight, but, you know, dragging him into deep waters and tiring him out where, you know, and drowning him there and getting a TKO stoppage like that in rounds, you know, 8 to 10. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. And AJ's going to have to lean all over him to try to slow him down. That's got to be, you got to, if you're the bigger man, be the damn bigger man, okay?

Don't be fighting like the Figueroas, although it's exciting to watch, by the way. But they give away that height. They get inside. Lean on that fellow. It's interesting, Rafe. You're just saying, AJ's not chinny, but he lives close enough to the chinny district that it spills over a little at times.

Is this like you in Detroit? Like, you're not in the, like, crazy area, but, you know, you're close enough. Look, let's not call any area crazy. I live on Nine Mile Road, so I live a mile outside of Detroit proper. Wow, that's like Mom's Spaghetti area, right? Well, there's actually now a restaurant here

called Mom's Spaghetti that Eminem owns, and that is further downtown from around 8 Mile. But yeah, this is I think Eminem's studio is is further downtown from, from around eight mile. But, uh, yeah, this is, I think Eminem studio is pretty close to where I live. All right.

I take back. Not crazy. I mean, aggressive. I mean, inner city. That's what I mean. Yeah.

You know, it's a city. It is. No, I mean, they're obviously, you grew up in New York city. Okay.

But you're like from, I mean, is it, do people not give you the street cred and respect when you're like, I grew up in Manhattan? I'm a, I don't care. I'm 40 years old.

I injured myself punching doors. Luckily, I am tall and grew up in the 90s when New York was a little grittier and you just didn't have to be quite as, you just learn how to be quiet and stay out of the way. Okay. All right. I'm trying to give Manhattan the respect it deserves. I mean, it's not the Bronx. It's not Staten Island. Okay?

Against who? Against who? What do you want me to do? I mean, Teddy, you know, Staten Island, hey, there's a lot of New York's finest out there. All right. I don't have a pick yet. I'm really teetering here. I've gone back and forth. I've had picks all over the place.

I am interested in yours. Our friends at Caesar Sportsbook right now, Usyk has a minus 210 favorite. I expected to see AJ in this spot, but instead Joshua, a plus 175 underdog. Rafe, it's a Wednesday, but give the people what they want. Give them that Friday prediction right now. Look, I think my pick to win the fight is Alexander Usyk. Easily. Not easily, but clearly, that is what I believe. I think that he has enough ways to win this fight. I think that

even if AJ does come with a better strategy and executes it, Usyk is a good enough fighter to adjust to that, figure out a way to weather the storm, and maybe make AJ pay for the aggression that he's going to, that he might show in trying to sort of reverse his performance from the first fight. So I would pick Usyk to win. If I'm a better, I like the value on AJ because I think people are overlooking him. I think people are overlooking the success he had in in the middle rounds uh the fact that he like wow I think I would have scored the fight about 8-4 I mean that's only a couple rounds away from a draw and I think that if we want to put on our tinfoil hats and start talking what the business wants conspiracies all that stuff and I'm always happy to go there I do think there are dark forces in the world of boxing, Brian.

A man in the black hat may exist. Would you connect it to the European banks and the Rothschild family? Look, you tell me what's going on underneath the Denver airport. I know that's where you go with this. One day I'll find out what's really going on under there all i'm saying bc is that it's uh that aj doesn't if he can make it a little tighter i think the judges you know there's a good chance they could see this fight going in his favor and we've seen that happen in rematches and trilogy you know i mean if we're projecting out a possible

trilogy here there's always that one middle fight where you're like, really? I didn't, like, they gave it to him. I didn't think he deserved it. You know, like, and the business is going to want him to win that fight. He just has to do a little bit better. And that is not a crazy thing to imagine happening. I think that Usyk will. I think Usyk is better.

I would predict for him to win the fight, predict for him to be ahead on my scorecards. I don't know if he will get that nod because it's boxing. This happens all the time. You said that Usyk was a clear enough winner in the first fight that no one really feared the robbery score. I feared the robbery scorecard. Are you kidding? I've seen worse robberies than that. Half of Omar Figueroa's biggest wins are robberies worse than that. I mean,

this happens in boxing. It's an effective robbery. It's still a robbery. It's still a robbery. You were there. You saw what happened to Tyson Cave at the Night of Champions and Temecula, Brian. You know. Escondon did enough. Teddy can relax, okay? I mean, seriously here. Rafe, closing out Usyk here, you and I were day one-ish, but that's because he wasn't on American TV in his initial rise. I mean, his WBSS, World Boxing Super Series tournament win, is some of the best consecutive elite stretch of hard fights that we've ever seen. AJ, number one, is probably going to end up being, up to this point,

the fight for many reasons of Usyk's run. But would you recommend any other performance for someone that didn't follow the rise to find out how great of a cruiser weight he really was oh man I mean there's so much to choose from there I think that uh really the WBSS uh you know three fight stretch at cruiserweight when he unified the titles those are the most wow performances and the most challenging closest fight of his career against you know our the the you know latvian uh our lot well your baltic brother right uh yeah i know you're lithuanian but it's right

next door maires briades i mean that one i thought was i when they were reading the cards it's like i have no clue who's going to win this fight. It was super close. And he beat him, and like Usyk has made a habit of doing throughout his career, beat him at home in Riga, Latvia, you know, right on his doorstep. Anyway, those, the two, the whitewashing of Glowacki and Marco Hook at Cruiserweight, who were both very good fighters at that time, Hook a little bit washyhy but still a big uh aggressive you know crazy turkish german man uh and then the the close fight with brietus who was you know

probably the closest we've seen to an athletic great fight he had a stand-in fight in that one that was great yeah and and that's the thing he was able to keep up with who's six feet and stay close to him and really get rough and dirty in there in a way that made it effective. But again, he ran out of gas a little bit at the end and Usyk closed strong. The guy, Usyk, of all of his attributes, and this is a fighter who outside of not having great pop as a power puncher, has almost everything else. The thing that might be number one on that list is just his mental strength his his ability to uh to to hang in there arise to the occasion find another level when good opponents like briatus or aj when they find a little success in the middle of a fight or

push him early or when chizora comes out like a house on fire and is just doing you know wild like like some of the things chizora talks about with the donkeys and the anal beads in his interviews. Like that's the kind of action he was bringing in the ring to Usyk. And Usyk weathers that, comes back, adjusts, and takes over the fight. And that's because, you know, how strong he is mentally. And that's also another under, like we haven't talked about it yet it's been a big theme of this build-up you know Usyk is gonna have this is probably gotta be the biggest mental test of his career with every you know having been recently on the front lines of

the war in Ukraine and and fighting I mean yeah he fought for his country in the Olympics he probably feels as if he always fights for his country. But this is a whole new level of that. And I think he can rise to the occasion, but I guarantee you if he loses and we're Monday morning quarterbacking the loss, we're all going to be saying, well, you know, of course, Ukraine had to play a role. Interesting stuff right there. More surprising boxing turn of events.

The second half of the movie Million Dollar Baby or Myra Spritis getting the Jake Paul tattoo and putting out the Raisin Balls music video to try to attract him in? I mean, what the hell is your guy doing? Seriously. Never, never, never follow through on the promise to get the tattoo, all right? Vanis Marderosian taught us that. He said he was going to get a Charlo tattoo if Jermel Charlo beat him. Jermel beat him. You know what? Jervanis hadarderosian taught us that. He said he was going to get a Charlo tattoo if Jermell Charlo beat him. Jermell beat him. You know what Javonis had the sense to not do?

Get a tattoo of Jermell Charlo or Lions Only or whatever it said he promised he was going to do. Don't do it. Just don't do it. Topic five takes us to this weekend. Showtime Championship Boxing still with the Adrian Broner withdrawal. Going to have a four-fight card. It goes down Hollywood, Florida, 8 p.m. Eastern Saturday, only on Showtime.

Omar Figueroa Jr., the former lightweight world titleist who's made his own comeback from mental health setbacks, still in the main event. Sergey Lipinyets, the new opponent, the former 140-pound champion who was on this preliminary off-TV card, maybe as a potential, you know, replacement if something happened.

Well, it did happen. We'll get to that fight in a second. But, Rafe, you and I have covered AB's wild up-and-down career, really, from the beginning. It coincides with us getting into the boxing journalism game on this level. I mean, you and I once went to New York City and interviewed AB in the back room ahead of the Mikey Garcia fight. And it's like, that day he was professional. I'm going to turn it back around, AB. But you can catch him the next day and it's a whole different one. He ends up pulling out of this fight for mental health reasons, despite Omar Figueroa's sort

of aggressive slander after the fact. Do you look at this as almost a good thing that he who has obviously battled mental health things throughout the years very publicly kind of knew himself enough to step aside or being so close to the fight is it just another weird occurrence in the life of adrian broner as a professional boxer yeah i don't know i mean look i i hope that he does uh that by missing this fight uh and pulling out a b you know it benefits him in in the way that he needs it to whether that means uh you know seeking help or just you know getting getting away from things whatever it is he needs to get himself right you want to see that happening it's hard to say is it better because on some level

I imagine everyone, you know, needs the purse that you're going to get for fighting, you know, in a main event on Showtime. That's a lot of money. And we've seen that, you know, unfortunately, AB, at least publicly, has said that he has had money issues before. It's not hard to believe that perhaps he overspent it some, even though, you though you know i mean knock on wood i would be very happy if that were those were all lies and he's sitting on a nice pile of cash um but uh you know it's hard to say like what's if it's just one night maybe maybe mental health can take a break and you can get that money and work on yourself later but look he did what he

had to do uh and and hopefully it works out for him in the end. Strangely enough, I know this is the exact opposite of what the boxing industry probably is saying about AB right now, but this makes me want to see him come back and get another fight somehow, some way, someday, although obviously when you pull out at the beginning of fight week and leave a whole promotion in the lurch, it ain't easy. And that's why Omar Figueroa kind of accused him of just, you know, not being in the best shape and kind of looking for a way out. But let's be honest. Look, the mental health narrative has become a real thing in boxing and

probably rightfully so. I mean, we've seen Ryan Garcia take a step away. We've seen Danny Garcia, you know, getting emotional in the post-fight interview and revealing his battle through Teofimo. I mean, it's... Look, it can hit anybody at any time. We also saw on Twitter,

Tank Davis kind of makes some comments and Ryan Garcia coming back at him. I don't know if you saw this. Could we throw it to the tweets right here? Tank says Boxer's got to stop using mental health to get out of stuff. Then Ryan Garcia says, Tank, we can go back and forth what happens in the ring all day,

but taking a shot at someone's mental health is out of line. I hope that deleting your tweet is part of your journey. Blah, blah, blah. Ryguy would then come back. I believe we've got a second tweet card here. There it is. Being honest about mental health is strength, et cetera, et cetera. Educate yourself. And then Tank says, look, we're just built different. We come from different places. I want to show it. there it is uh being honest about mental health is strength etc etc educate yourself and then

tank says look we're just built different we come from different places i want to show it i want to show it by putting the pain on you that's how i'll fight my mental health now look i mean we all want to see that fight we'll see what happens uh in that regard but but boxing is as macho a game as we know could someone use it as an excuse to get out of something yes but i also like that for the most part we're starting to look at this as like you shouldn't be in the ring unless you are in a spot where you're safe because of how unsafe this game is at the very least i gotta be happy that people are taking this seriously it's look it's of course this is a great it's for the greater good of society that we are taking

this seriously it's difficult in a sport like boxing where you know there are reasons why fighters might want to pull out of a fight uh usually i i look my what i my my suggestion instead of mental health let's all just go back to the uh to the to the old school way of of you know pulling out of a fight and say that, just come up with an injury. Boxers are always hurt. There's always a legit injury for every fighter after they go through a training camp and are going into a fight. That way, I feel like it puts people, it puts fans,

it puts the industry in a really difficult spot to try to sort of fight the human nature to judge. Whoa, do I really believe this now all of a sudden and like nobody wants to be skeptical of something like that but i look i those thoughts do cross my mind sometimes and that doesn't mean that i think that my mental health is perfect or i haven't struggled too um i also think that on some level fans you know i mean some fans really believe uh and want to support. Some fans, you'll find a lot who are kind of like, yo, I still got to work tomorrow. Nobody cares, you know, what's going on in my head.

And it's, you know, there's no right answer, Brian. Look, I want AB to be fine. I always say he's great for the sport, even though I don't, you know, I haven't always danced with every song he wanted us to. Loyal though, that's good. Loyal, that was a bop, right? though I haven't always danced with every song he wanted us to, but he's a nine-lives guy. That's good. Loyal, that was a bop, right? Yeah, remember we had those rap tracks on the old podcast and we were playing them, man? That was something.

He's 33, and I still think if he wants to, he can make fun fights. I thought this would have been a fun fight. We can argue, though. This might be even a more fun fight. Sergey Lipnets is not that far removed from losing his 140-pound title to Mikey Garcia. Retiring Lamont Peterson in a legit fight of the year contender fought Castillo Clayton to a fun draw. Yes, lost to Jerron Boots Ennis when he stepped back up, but he's in his early 30s looking for a big opportunity Sergey Lipnets versus Omar Figueroa Jr. Rafe at the very least how can this not be a phone booth fight this could

be some fun business Saturday night oh yeah look for the boxing fan who wants to see a good fight this this isn't an argument this is definitely a much better tv product to watch on Saturday night. I mean, in terms of a fan-friendly TV fight, good lord. I mean, they're going to go in there and bang. That's the best version of both of these fighters when they're being aggressive, when they're not having to deal with someone who can make them miss and sort of make them look like cavemen. Just let the cavemen bang um

i think that uh you know so so in that and ab i mean look as much it's weird because we feel like we we root for ab almost in spite of the fact that he has not been a good tv fighter he's a great box office draw and that's a good reason to keep you know giving him these opportunities brawl uh that draw that was a good reason to keep you know giving him these opportunities brawl uh that draw that was a good fight occasionally yes but it has to be brought out of him and more often than not we see when he got the big fight against manny pacquiao what did he what did ab do he basically just survived wouldn't let his hands go he still has the reflexes and instincts and defensive ability to make a fight to slow a fight fight down, prevent himself from getting hurt, but do nothing to win.

And that has been the story through so many of his fights in the last, you know, five years almost. And I think that we would have seen some version of that again. Maybe he would have been good enough to nick a win over Omar Figueroa. Maybe not, but it would have been that kind of fight. Instead, we get Lippin Yates stepping in, who is still, look, Lippin Yates, I am not always, there have been times,

and you know this, you make fun of me about it, I sometimes can be a little dismissive of Lippin Yates as a legit championship level contender at 140, 147, any of these weights. I don't think he is, but I think he is a world-class B-plus fighter, whatever in the world that means, right? A championship-level gatekeeper. And you see what happens when he steps up.

He looks like he doesn't belong in the ring with the likes of a Mikey Garcia, even though I know, oh, he pushed him, he pushed him. No, he made that hard. See, this is where you and I differ. He gave Mikey the business for a while, okay? He was bigger than Mikey. It's true. Mikey should have stayed at 135.

Maybe the 147 elites are a little too big for him, so you get somebody with huge skill like a boot. They're also just way better. The 147 elites, Brian. No, you're right. All right. But Omar Figueroa Jr. has got a chance to kind of put his train back on the tracks. We wish him well.

Have you been, you know, you and I are not podcasting anymore, but, dude, Brandon Figueroa at 122, now 126. Like, I think we're done saying, hey, dude, why are you giving away your reach and height? Because he gets inside on you and he knocks people out, man. I mean, this is becoming a thing. Have you enjoyed the Brandon Figueroa experience? Absolutely. I enjoyed it really early on.

I think whether it was on Showbox or some of the early PBC undercards I caught him on before he was fighting for titles, he came in. I remember back in the day coming out with a hot take that definitely went nowhere that Brandon Figueroa was the, you know, was the sort of like the cool hipster Ryan Garcia,

you know, like handsome, but in a much sort of, you know, much more indie way, you know, come in with his baby face outfit. And, and at that point in time, I thought he could fight a lot better. That might still be true. We haven't really seen Ryan Garcia fight many, you know, high level opponents, but, you know, yeah, Brandon Figueroa is real good. And even though he lost that fight close, you know, to Stephen Fult he lost that fight close to Stephen Fulton Jr., good lord, Stephen Fulton Jr., good lord. I mean, that was a really, really good fight, and he showed that he isn't like just another sort of hardworking,

put your lunch pail hat on, what is it called? That ain't it. Whatever it was, it has to be your bull, Brian. I buy all the cards from that guy yeah yeah he's not just uh just uh just a tough you know hard-working guy who likes to get in the trenches and bang he he has a lot of craft he's a really strong inside fighter and and he really gave stephen fulton jr you know a great test and and one that you know uh they're not in the same division anymore but i don't think any of us would have been upset to see that again.

Exactly. But get it right. It's Steven, but cool boy Steph, but now they call him Scooter. I mean, he's blowing people away, too. He's fun as shit. Don't forget the third boxing Figueroa sibling, O'Myra, the strength coach, also really making a lot of waves and bringing her career to the next level. And also AB did it for the hood against Pacquiao.

Okay. Yeah. AB did it for the hood against Puck. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. AB did it for the hood. Okay. So back off. You know, I beat that boy, Brian.

We closed today's show with a fun segment. Rafe, you never done this type of fun stuff with us. I debuted it last week with Rashad Evans. It's a new segment. This is a box edition of yes, no, or GTFO.

I got you. So here's the premise rafael i've got 10 or so provocative statements about boxing and beyond you will respond with yes if you agree and tell me why no if you don't agree and tell me why or gtfo bc if you think this is just ridiculous or what have you. I got Rashad to GTFO me three times last time, so we'll see what happens. Oh, I think I can exceed that. Number one, hey, all of this Tyson Fury every other day retirement talk is actually gypsy traveler code for we ain't fighting Usyk if he beats Joshua a second time.

GTFO, Brian, GTFO. Why? Because I think that Tyson Fury would absolutely take that fight if Usyk beats Joshua a second time. Will there be as much money in it as an AJ fight? Maybe the guy would have beaten Anthony Joshua twice. On top of that, as much as Tyson Fury likes

to go back and forth, I don't see that as the implication, the idea that Tyson Fury is avoiding Alexander Uzi. Well, I don't know if he's just trying to raise his price, but obviously his message changes every day, but on the odd days, his message is, I'm going to box the guy from the Mountain Man,

what show is that? Game of Thrones? I don't know. Thorne? ThorneStore?, I'm going to box the guy from the Mountain Man, what show is that, Game of Thrones? I don't know, Thorne Store? Or I'm going to go back to WWE. So is he just doing that to get more money? I mean, dude, do I believe the fighting heart is there and he's going to fight for the Undisputed Championship? Yes. But it does make me nervous that he's constantly playing this game,

which is now just tired ass game. I see. I see. You need let me let me translate that that traveler talk for you. It's not that he is he he has any doubt in his mind, whatever whatever Tyson Fury has decided on. I believe he already knows what he's going to do, but he loves to play games with the press. Imagine I think he just gets a huge kick out of this this reality he lives in where whatever nonsense he comes up with, oh, I'm going to fight Big Bill Kazmaier from the 1970s World's Strongest Man competitions. Oh, I'm going to fight Derek Chisora. Tomorrow I'm going to fight Francis Ngannou. He gets a kick out of the idea that he basically can say, you know, jump and the press says,

how high, Tyson? Like, we'll report anything that the man says and treat it, take it at face value truth when he's just, he's just, he's just playing with people. He's just a cat playing with a mouse. Yeah, I'm the old podcast because I asked about him, his dad removing an eyeball on a bar fight. All right, number two here on Yes, No, or GTFO. Hey, Teofimo Lopez Jr. looked good in his 140-pound debut, but the reality remains that what was lost in the two years since he upset Lomachenko might not be able to be properly ever restored. I think no, Brian. uh look he is still so young he was 24 right now 25 just turned just turned 25 if he goes on to have a long career which

he could then he has plenty of time to erase all of that he fights right in the the wheelhouse of of weight divisions where he will be able to get legacy fights if he looks good enough and achieves and earns the right to do them, wins belts. I mean, he's in a position where he could be fighting, you know, at top rank at 140, Jose Ramirez, you know, Josh Taylor. I mean, look, if he wants to pick up some scraps of Jack Catterall, good for him. You're just pro-great. Pro-great. I mean, if that Ryan Garcia fight happens, I think you remember, Brian, years ago on that podcast we used to host, we jokingly asked Tao,

after I think he had just slept, Mason Rockhard Menard. Rockhard Mighty. Yeah, Rockhard Mighty. Well, we asked Tao what he thought of Ryan Garcia, this pretty boy. He laughed at you. He was like, that boy does not want any peace with me. I think he still thinks that's the case. Look, he has to keep himself on track. There are all the obvious questions about whether the trainer relationship with his father is good for him. And he's going to have, but he's going to have every opportunity to either correct that if it's a problem or prove the world wrong.

And if he doesn't, then it's not because of these last two years. It's because he didn't. One more to answer from you. Is it more likely of really hard fights to make that people think they can make that Ryguy faceso or gervante oh god i don't neither more is the most likely i don't i don't know if ryan garcia wants to fight a fight like that against either here comes spectacle skeptical i hate the sport bartholomew again let's go to number three here while While playing mythical matchmaker with the Four Princes, as Karen Mulvaney calls them, and that's, of course, Teofimo, Haney, Gervonta, and Ryan Garcia, it's fun to do, but dude, Shakur Stevenson would beat all of them at 135 or 140. the brakes on that one a little bit brian uh so no uh not yet i see where you're coming from i might

favor shakur in all of those fights but let's really i mean like has devin haney done anything to to to to like lose his luster uh has and and teo while we we know the drawbacks with him i could still see him we've seen him rise to the occasion and win an incredible, you know, have one of the best wins of the last five years. I mean, that is like a Rigondeaux over Nonito Donaire type win in terms of like the opponent in front of him. And he deserved that W over Lomachenko. He was so dangerous that he convinced Lomachenko not to fight his own fight for six rounds to start halfway through the fight. That's what Tao can be. So do I think, do I understand why

people would reasonably favor Shakur, who seems to really be putting it all together right now? Yes, I might favor him too, but to just say, oh, he washes all of them? No. Well, I didn't say wash, but God, he does Floyd stuff. Nobody does Floyd stuff, okay?

Devin Haney, all he does is Floyd stuff. I know, I know, but I think Shakur has that second gear that people question if Haney really has. Is that the gear where he holds his opponent's head the entire fight and punches behind it? Yes, but also, you know, Shakur's proven in the parking lots, too. Tough guy outside the ring as well. Hey, let's go to Renonito Donair, as you mentioned. His recent public tease of eschewing retirement following the Inoue rematch loss in favor of cutting more down to 115 to fight either Chocolatito or Kazuto Ioka.

Look, it's noble. It's ambitious. But the dude's 40. This is a really bad idea, Rave. Yeah, I don't see why he has to. All right, so so yes i don't see why he has to cut weight for that why won't one of them come up to him i know he's bigger than them he probably that would probably benefit him but why not don't you know this this reminds this is like the classic chad dawson promising to go down and wait to fight andre ward and then getting his ass handed to him mistake don't don't give

that up right away don't give that up right away. Don't give that up before you're at the negotiating table. If they end up at 115 and he thinks he can make it, I'm okay with that. I like the idea of one big legacy fight for Nonito on the way out. Yes, he got just washed against Inoue, but that's what, I mean, Inoue can do that. That's what we thought was going to happen in the first fight before Nonito pulled out that inspiring performance um I don't think that the results of their latest fight mean that Donaire is just done and I think that he can't like especially I love the Chocolatito fight one because I think Chocolatito is a really really

advantageous style matchup for for nonito with his counter punching and and just you know his power and that left hook uh and also that is an incredible legacy fight both of them way at the end of their careers they hopefully aren't going to hurt each other that bad that is one to retire on for whoever wins it i mean that'd be great but dude i thought he was washed after the Walters loss at featherweight and the fact that he's moved down two divisions in the late 30s. Were you right or wrong about that? But the fact that he's already done this has been mind-blowing,

that he fought Inouye on that level in the first fight. Dude, there's only so much you can bite off, though. He's got a beautiful wife. Do it for Jaron, right? Jaron is practically a grown man now. He's fine. He can be the man of the house i mean risk it all at home don't risk it all in the ring you know what i'm talking about all right the next one for as much as we glorify steven seagal's portrayal of detective gino felino in the 1991 action thriller out for justice his mildly search for Bobby Lupo was actually a sad portrayal of police brutality, reckless use of force, and about 78 other illegal acts the last time I checked.

Brian, this is maybe the strongest GTFO you will ever earn in the history of this segment. I don't know how many more times it's coming up, but this is G-T-F-O-F-O-H, everything I can come up with to that, Brian. It's a movie. It's a great 80s movie. All right. Are we worried? What is it? Was it 1990?

91. Get it right. Okay, please. Sorry to offend your lord and savior. But, Brian, it just, like, this is crazy it's it's a movie it's so much fun it's hilarious it's it's classic you know action movie star but admit it in our great debate of what is the best prime era seagal flick dude it's marked for death because it's grimier and more realistic just admit it bro i won't admit that no because i i know you did it i won't admit it brian it's grimier and more realistic. Just admit it, bro.

I won't admit that. No, I know you did it. I won't admit it. Brian, it's because Alfred Justice just has nonstop action. The dialogue is ridiculously terrible. There's the subplot with the guy who abuses the dogs. No, no. Okay, okay. Few are mentioning it because of triple g's age but

there's at least a 25 chance that he can lure canelo into an angry brawl and win the trilogy in marquez pacquez pacquez for fashion just like many pacquiez got knocked out in december 2012 uh brian no i look i'm actually with you on this. I say yes to this. Not necessarily that I see it playing out as Triple G luring Canelo into a brawl, but just that there could, even with Triple G's advanced age, the fact that he hasn't looked nearly as good as he did, you know, five, six years ago in his recent fights. All of that, we understand that.

Canelo will be favored big, and he will deserve to be, given their recent form. But there's always that chance, and you're giving me a chance to quote my favorite Roger Mayweather line, which is from an interview before Mayweather Pacquiao 3,weather before Pacquiao Marquez 3 and he says sometimes guys are just made for each other and I hope that that's the case with these two because they've given us two

incredible fights and if it's the case again then fans are gonna win no matter who comes out the victor in the bout. Yeah, Yusef Mack used to say that as well. This Saturday, it's going to be that quadruple header, 8 p.m. Eastern on Showtime. But if you tune in 6 p.m. Eastern on the YouTubes,

it's your boy BC and Keith one-time Thurman calling some prelim action from South Florida. So I set that up to ask you this. While both are a bit removed from their fighting primes, a Keith Thurman-Danny Garcia rematch at 154 would still be nostalgic fun. Absolutely. Yes, yes, yes. And also, let's not undersell the real main event here, which is that prelim call that you and Keith Thurman will be on.

I mean, it's going to be a tug-of-war of kindness. The fans cannot wait to see you two make beautiful music together. Will you be bringing flutes? Oh, man. He said he doesn't play it anymore. I'd love to see him grow back the long ponytail and do-do-do-do-do. Yeah, I should. I should bring a flute, okay?

Not a wooden variety. All right, we've got to keep it rolling here to round out this super show today. Andy Ruiz's decision to tat up his ass cheeks might actually have more to do with his post-AJ upset decline than all those chicken wings he famously ate at Downey Pizza that time. No, no. Get your Ruiz timeline straight. OK, the ass cheek tattoos did not appear until after the loss to AJ. All right. He just had his regular destroyer script across the back.

The same tats we knew and love from Andy, as well as an extra 40 pounds. And also get the meals right. All right. It was pastrami pizza, which Andy wouldn't eat because he was trying to watch his weight for the fight. But he was eating healthy with a giant plate of chicken Alfredo pasta. I don't know how you come. This is how you have a performance like Andy did in that rematch. Yeah, that was wild how big he was for that. I mean, you've got a Luis Ortiz pay-per-view coming up,

which, you know, I could talk myself into, even though it's extra sloppy. We'll see what happens. All right, a couple more to get out of here. Unknowing Showbox executives would probably allow me three Loadwatch references on air before having a talk with me about public decency in the year 2022.

One, Brian, do you think... So I think yes on this because this this comes out in boxing all the time it comes out unintentionally now people might have an issue with you trying to uh to slide it in there uh knowingly but i mean i've heard uh you know i've heard commentators and analysts on Showtime Championship Boxing broadcast, let a load watch slip here and there. It's part of the sport. He's tired.

He blew his load, right? That's what they're saying. Exactly. So, Brian, if it happens, if the load comes out, you know, you can't hold it in. There's not really anything you can do. That's the whole point of the exercise. There it is. There it is.

All right. Here we go. Forget Tommy Fury or Hasim Rockman Jr. Hardcore boxing fans know the real fight for Jake Paul has been, and still is, unbeaten troll, Charlie Zelenoff. No. No. I've killed once fighting Deontay Wilder in a gym. Do you realize how dangerous that could have been? How awful it could have been for Wilder's career? It could have been awful. Charlie Zelenoff, I hope you are well wherever you are.

And I never want to think about you in the terms of professional boxing again. Okay, there's a bonus one here. This all-female boxing card headlined by Clarissa Shields and Savannah Marshall is a really nice idea, but there's no chance Rafe will be watching. All right! It was great!

I'm speechless! You're not a misogynist. That's a joke for the old school podweezers. There it is right there. Rafe loves him. Hey, by the way, that video feature you guys did for Texas Monthly on Ginny Fuse, U.S. amateur star turned top-ranked fighter, was good. Yeah, Houston-based Ginny Fuse back when she was going into the Olympics a couple years ago, last year, I don't know, whatever it was.

She, you know, I mean, it's, you talk about someone struggling or managing a mental health issue. God, her OCD, seeing her, you seeing her clean dozens of toothbrushes every day, it gives you this really vivid idea of the challenges that she goes through. No question about it. Rafe, you've gone through some challenges with that left hand. We hope it heals. I'm sure we love your work on Texas Monthly if we see it, but it's a close here. If a boxing

fan said, hey, Rafe, you're a New York Times bestselling author. We've read your books on basketball, Pinoys, Fathers and Sons. When are we going to read that boxing book? Bro, when are we going to read that boxing book? If I'm being honest, I would say never. I would love to write several books on boxing. There are great books about boxing, but you need to be able to sell it. I mean, put it this way. I got a lot of love for the Hamilcar people. I ain't going to be writing no Hamilcar books.

Okay, there you have it right there. I would love to see you more in the podcast game, maybe as a guest on this show. I don't know. You know, Brian likes Tyson Fury. You say jump, I will ask how high. I'm always up for you, bro. Always.

Indeed. Big fan of yours out there in Detroit. Hope you're doing well. We should hang out in real life sometime, too. I mean, maybe. Please. Alright. Rafe Buggs, enjoy the fights this weekend. Usyk, Joshua, too. Do you have anything to plug on the way out?

You know, shoot, check out. If you've never seen me before and don't hate me by now, you know, I did write three books that I'm proud of. Pacific Rim's 2 and 2 and Basketball Love Story. And if you want to check out my name, I've written a lot of stuff online about boxing and basketball, a lot of stuff in between. So I'm out there. Yeah. And I couldn't plug your second book anymore. The two and two of McSorley's my dad and me. It's a hell of a story. There's a lot of people that I wouldn't expect that have heard of that book because they

love McSorley so much and have like a deep personal connection. Right. Okay. I'm very lucky to be part of that special tradition as well as this one. I hope Mark Kriegel one day does an ESPN feature on the experience between your father and you. You know, we're good friends. I love your daddy, but we gotta

go. That's Rafe Boogs. Thank you to Aaron Bronstetter for filling in. Hopefully Luke Thomas enjoyed the vacation. We'll be back later this week. You're going to see me Saturday night. South Florida. Me and Keith Thurman. 6pm Eastern Showtime Championship Boxing Prelims. Don't miss that. You can stream Showtime right now. 30 days

free. Go to Showtime.com. You're not going to want to miss Figueroa versus Lipignet. It's going to be a banger this Saturday night. That's all for now. I've got two words, Rafe, for the people. You want to say them? No, it's on you, baby.

Okay, we out. What are you going to do about that? I love it. I love to hear it. Over. Close the show already. It's over. I don't want to do this anymore.