MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - UFC Fight Island | Kattar vs. Ige | Figueiredo vs. Benavidez | MORNING KOMBAT Extra

Episode Date: July 16, 2020

Luke and Brian are back with a special Morning Kombat Extra to break down everything that happened during last night's UFC Fight Island event. They also preview Saturday's main event rematch between Deiveson Figueiredo and Joseph Benavidez. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Reveille, Reveille, Donks! Look at us now, tip to tip. This is our life. This is our passion. That's the spirit we bring to this show. I'm Luke Thomas. I'm Brian Campbell. This is Morning Combat. It is Thursday, July 16th, 2020, and it is time, donks, for Morning Combat.

Welcome, everyone. My name is Luke Thomas. I am one half of your hosting duo, the man on the other side of the screen, you know from CBS Sports, as well as this show, The Conspiracy to My Theory, the one and only Brian Campbell. Brian, I know there was a ban on blue ticked twitter accounts last night but i didn't see you doing a whole lot of tweeting about the fights last night where were you buddy i was uh you know you ever see the movie uh clockwork orange where they have the eyes you know kept open like that luke that was where my hands were trying to

stay up to 1 30 a.m eastern time for that card i know a lot of wine in here from an east coast boy here but uh ufc this week man fight island they got us living life you know a quarter mile at a time like prime dom teretto because uh they're producing the contact content and we're staying up late for it they certainly are a couple housekeeping notes that we'll get this going pretty quickly this is just an episode of Morning Combat Extra. A little bit more relaxed BC. A little bit more, you know, free form. So we appreciate everyone who's watching. Please give the video a thumbs up and hit that subscribe button if you've not already done that.

Send this video to a friend or an enemy. Just send it around. We don't really care who it goes to at this point. Spread it like an STD, Luke, because the deal is we are the combat freaks. We like the girls with a boom. I mean, I would speak for both of us and say we'd be willing to get busy in a Burger King bathroom. No condoms, no masks, just straight, you know, to the point. Also, we always plug it.

We have merchandise. You can go to store.show.com. Morning Combat hats, T-shirts, hoodies, tumblers, mugs, the whole nine yards. If you're interested, please go get it. And of course, if you'd like to try Showtime, you certainly can. Go to showtime.com for a 30-day free trial. If you like it, you can keep it.

If not, you can pound sand. But why would you want to do that, BC? I couldn't imagine trying Showtime for 30 days and saying, it's not good enough for me. At the very least, try it for that outcry, Doc, because I'm fired up about it. You think one day we could get GK in this piece here? I would love to chat with that man. I'll tell you what, we're going to figure out how much, we're going to figure out our standing in this company.

If they can make it happen for us with GK, we'll know exactly where we are. But I guess a discussion for a different time. OK, BC, let's get this going, man. So last night we had the second of two. I think it was the second of four cards that are going to happen at Fight Island. It was Cater versus Ige. Let me just read the result here, if I can, for folks who may have missed it or just to go over it as a point of order. Two scores of 49-46, 148-47, Cater defeats Ige.

I had it 49-46. I gave the second round to Dan Ige, but I'll go with you first, BC. Before we talk about the implications of the fight, what did you make of the fight itself? Look, it had potential to be fireworks two top 10 featherweights you mentioned the implications right you had an opportunity to really catapult yourself to the front of the line in the title picture with an impressive enough performance given the inactivity within that top 10 and you know the overall quarantine reality i don't feel like it lived up to the you know excitement. Neither did the entire main card with every fight going the distance.

But it was still a solid effort from Calvin Cater, who showed us that he's a class above a red-hot Dan Ige, who came in with a six-fight win streak. And really showed us, Luke, I think, with his takedown defense, with his patience, with his five-run stamina, with the heavy striking that we know him for, and the technique, that he's pretty much a complete fighter who's ready for for you know all the smoke if you will uh shout out to showtime

there uh at the top of this division he was the better fighter he didn't push the pace and go for the knockout per se like we've seen and i think both guys were a bit leery not to gas out in their first real five round showcase eg had never gone never gone five rounds. And for Cater, you know, he hadn't been there since like 2009, back in the regional days. So you didn't see the full package of what they were able to do because there was a little bit of a safety being played. But in the end of the day, man, Cater overcomes the middle fingers being twisted in opposite directions and overcame really, you know, getting his nose busted up in that second round in which you mentioned I thought Ige won as well to be the better fighter and I think the conversation is where it is he's a true elite Calvin Cater I don't know if I would

favor him per se against the you know from Yair to Zabit to uh you know Korean Zombie and Ortega in between but he's in that group he belongs, I think he beats one of those guys, maybe even two. Which ones and how, I don't know, right? So to your point, he certainly belongs in that group. Exactly how he pairs with them, I'm not entirely sure. As for the fight itself, you know, I'm with you. It's like, look, man, they can't all be Poirier versus Hooker, and that's okay. It was a perfectly fine, I'd say even good fight. I'm not here to bash it at all. Was it epic? No, it wasn't. It wasn't Clash of the Titans, but it was serviceable. Two certainly appropriate choices, I thought, for a UFC main event. Dan Ige really has just

transformed himself, and Calvin Cater, I think, is now revealing the depths of his game. The thing that stuck out for me was he won the first round, but he was still a little bit of a slow starter. It's something he has mentioned to me that's been a bit of an issue for him. It didn't cost him, I didn't think, the first round, but you mentioned maybe against De'Ara Rodriguez, who's going to come out firing, that still might, right?

So it wasn't a liability here per se, but it could still be a liability going forward, especially against a Josh Emmett. If he gets right right that's another one he's sort of looking like on the other hand by the fifth round he was commanding distance he was dictating the offense he had found his groove uh eagay was sort of just trying anything he could you know spamming him with offensive maneuvers and and at that point he had had an answer everything. Also it was kind of revealing that Ige would get cracked and you knew he got cracked

when he would shoot for a takedown right afterwards. He didn't really kind of have much of a poker face in that regard. I'm not saying that these are easy shots to take I'm just saying it was kind of noticeable. I think the other thing I'd say though is Cater, man, he is talented. He is really, really talented.

If he could get his volume, BC, a little bit higher, get going a little bit earlier, and defense just a little bit tighter, because it seems to me he's still a little bit of like, he's too smart to be a bite down on the mouthpiece guy, but he's still got a little bit of that dog in him. The more he can get rid of those instincts and build upon his smarts, I think that will dictate how far he goes in this division. Yeah, he's a bit of a tweener in that regard, but he's rounding out his game. And look, a little bit of a late starter. He's 32. He only came to the promotion just a handful of years back. He's put it together in a short time. Now four wins in five fights. The only

loss is a beat, but as we know, of of course he pushed him late in that third round and showed you that you know had that been a title fighter a five rounder maybe he's the one with the momentum at that point oh here's what's interesting you know he's not going to blow away i don't think the upper crust like he was able to do to get to this point i mean you know the knockout of burgos the violent finish of jeremy stevens strong wins in between that got our attention. So I think this fight, in a lot of ways, for him to test his five-round gas tank and rely more on his technique will be more helpful for him in the long run, because you can't expect to walk in there against a Max Holloway or Volkanovski and think, all right, you know,

I play my game and I can stop him in a round and a half. It's just not going to happen. I do think for Ige though, he found his ceiling, right? He found out how good he can be. He can rip off six in a row against increasingly good competition. And obviously the Barbosa fight was a tough one. He rallied, he showed us a lot, but look, I saw a guy who was a little bit nervous about the five round distance and didn't want to, you know, have a dangerous situation late that it prevented Dan Ige from doing ultimately what he does best. He had a size disadvantage. He had a bit of a technique disadvantage.

He wasn't able to go full bore and just pepper and bring it with the in-and-out attack that we're used to really from the beginning of the third round on. It's interesting. I look at the rankings here. These are not updated, so these are what they were last night. We'll see how they change. Ige was sitting at 10, Stevens at nine, Emmitt at seven, tied for seven is Edgar, Calvin Cater sitting at six, Rodriguez at five, Korean Zombie

four, Ortega three, Zabit at two, and then Max Holloway at one. I don't know exactly what it's going to do for Cater because he beat someone in the top 10, but it was literally number 10. I don't know if Ige will drop out. He might. He might. It's hard to say exactly because I don't know what the ones behind him are going to be doing, which is Allen, Burgos, Ryan Hall, Sadiq Youssef, and Jose Aldo.

But I have to say, you see Ryan Hall and Youssef move inside that top 10. You've got basically an entire turnover of a division from five years ago, almost. Not quite because Holloway would have been in there and a couple other ones Chan Sung Jung but still uh and for the most part it's incredible how good 145 is it's not as good as 135 and it's not as good as 155 and so I think for those reasons BC gets lost a little bit but I was just sitting back marveling at this I was like wow man look how good the striking is here so I went back and I watched a couple of fights this morning from the very first Ultimate Fighter finale, right?

Sort of the first sort of real breakout moment on Spike TV. Oh my God, dude. It's a completely different sport. So it's just nice to see how good MMA striking has been generally. And I just want folks to realize 35 is phenomenal. 55 is phenomenal. I would argue both are better than 145, but just because they're better than 145 doesn't mean 145 isn't a fantastic division.

Yeah. Look at that top seven. I mean, it's all killer, no filler. And in your point about the evolution of striking well-rounded game, that's why I'm comfortable saying the lightweight group we have right now is the deepest and best division in history even better than that glorious run at light heavyweight when john jones first came on the scene and there were all those hall of famers still around but back to cater quickly you know he did the right thing and sort of said hey uh volkanovsky's looking for a dance partner for later this year you know i'm active i'm ready i'm that guy it's certainly very unlikely but let's look again quickly at that top 10 emmett's not going to be fighting for a while due to injury steven's just

lost frankie edgar's not even in that division anymore and then you have those four or five guys that we mentioned more deserving than cater but they haven't fought yet this calendar year and with the uncertainties of the quarantine it's unlikely of course that cater slides in there but you do never know with injuries and guys pulling out I think the more likely direction the one I hope to see Luke is Zabit in there as the next title challenger against Volkanovski Maybe around December when you consider that caters this red-hot ends a beat just recently beat him. God That's a great matchup. And then if that happens then would you prefer anyone in that grouping of inactive guys for cater?

Would you prefer a year to grouping of inactive guys for Cater? Would you prefer a Yair to a comebacking Ortega? Where are you at with that? If it's a five-round fight, which I think really matters, because as you recall, the Zabit fight, Cater was turning it on late, and then it just ended in the third round. You're like, ugh. I really believe that would have been a different fight over five rounds. We don't know that, but certainly it's worth speculating in that direction. But I like the Rodriguez fight for all the reasons I mentioned

previously. He's got a completely different style of striking, something of a different body type to a degree, and different tempo, different things he looks for. It's a real test for either guy because you have trickery and cleverness with Cater, but more inside the traditional framework of here's what works in boxing and here's what doesn't. Let's add a little bit of individual personality, whereas Rodriguez is just all flair with a little bit more of that center traditional things that work. And so they're right next to each other.

As you mentioned, Emmett would have been the better choice, I think, but because as you indicated, he's out for a little while. So to me, it's a Cater-Rodriguez fight. I think that's the one to make. And the winner of that moves up because they've got sitting, they've got a three Brian Ortega. I understand why Brian Ortega is widely regarded as one of the top featherweights. I'm not saying that in my mind, I don't think of him very highly, but he hasn't fought in almost two years. Calvin Cater has fought what four times in the last year, Dan Ige last night, PC, that was

his fifth fight in a calendar year now igay lost i'm not saying he deserves to be ahead of brian ortega i'm just saying there's got to be something to be said in these rankings for activity and they don't properly reflect that in my view thank you is it about time now i mean this is mk extra there's no rules here that we're stripped this thing down we can i can talk i can talk about anything i want right now luke is it time we get a little nervous about where brian ortega is at this point i mean we used to have a rule at espn we have it now at cbs sports when you're doing a pound for pound or a divisional ranking if a guy hasn't been there for a year and he doesn't have a fight scheduled or there's not you know close to making

a big fight he's out of the rankings i know that doesn't apply to ufcs but every day that goes by we get a little bit more nervous about ortega who who let's not forget, yeah, he lost to Max Holloway in that fight, but man, he was willing to die in there. He brought everything he had, and it was promising as a build to the future. Lately, Luke, I know you hate when I say things like this, but Ortega's gotten more action rolling around with Halle Berry than he has inside an octagon, so hopefully we can see him back soon. Last thing about it, as I mentioned, the five fights that ea had in a calendar year i think his right eye was swollen completely shut

he took a picture for social media and you mentioned cater's nose cater busted that up i actually interviewed him after the jeremy stevens fight and he was telling me that the plane ride home after the stevens fight was completely miserable because one his nose was broken he didn't get it or if not broken just you know badly hurting right whatever the issue was okay both of his eyes were black as a consequence of the nose so probably let's say it was probably broken one he wasn't going to get it addressed until he went back to Boston so it was just bothering him generally two he had to wear a mask over it and kind of breathe through it on a plane so you have the just lingering issue with pressurization issues with the mask on top he said it was truly a

miserable plane ride now i'm sure it healed some before this but this is interesting right you have all these people who were like i wish i could get as many fights as serrani and i'm sure on some level that is true and i'm sure some will perform better if they can get four or five even certain cases six fights in a calendar year but I also think they're beginning to realize you're at the kind of the limits of these things five five UFC fights is not the same as five regional fights very very different both in length and difficulty the training camp that goes into it the lingering injuries that come out of it even Volkanovsky from six months ago was saying that his right leg was still hurt in the fight with this Max. So I'm just pointing out, I wonder when, I don't know if there's a bubble exactly BC, but

yes, I think fighters are happy to have more activity, but I also think they're discovering that can only take you so far. Well, I'm glad you brought that up quickly. Cause I had talked to Dan Ige a couple of days before that fight and he thought, you know, his mindset was what was going to separate him from Cater. And part of that mindset, he says, is I'm an opportunist. I'm willing to fight, you know, tough matchup one after another, a couple months apart, because that window can close. And if you're ready and you're fresh from having just recently been in a fight, that'll help him. But, you know, he almost wondered if last night was a little bit too much of that you still saw the underlying you know bruises on Ige's face from his last outing against Barbosa or maybe they came during training camp hard for me to gauge that but he just looked

look it was a fight that he was the underdog for a reason he didn't win it you just wonder Luke where that limit is on over activity and taking too many hard chances in a short period, preventing you from being your freshest. It's a tough balance, okay? You also mentioned something that we'll use as we move down the card here. You mentioned, and quite rightly, the main card, all decisions, which doesn't mean all bad fights, but certainly all decisions. Prelim card, all finishes. So the guys at Fightmetric have been working on some data as UFC has gone to UFC Apex

about what can we say about the small cage and how it changes things. And what they found early, and again, there's a lot more research that has to go into this, is that there are more finishes in the small cage from the Apex sample that we have already. But it's weird. It doesn't really show up on the main card. It's mostly a function of finishes on the prelim card. And why would that be? Maybe guys on late notice, guys in from the regional scene maybe mismatches but then there's also this problem of well what is the difference between the the first two fights outside of the

main card like the you know the last two prelims and then the main card itself sometimes nothing sometimes there really is no qualitative difference so more data has to show up it's just funny now bc we're back to the big cage and that pattern all finishes all decisions in that order from prelim to main it still showed up so i wonder how much of it is not a function of the small cage per se but rather this weird situation where there's a lot of people like do we watch this sport for a living there was a lot of people i was just introduced to last night and and we're seeing that over these cards, both at Apex and Fight Island. They're giving the nod to a lot of people off the regional scene, and I think it's sort of changing what we understand about UFC fights.

So more study, I think, is needed. Yeah, and it's not lost on me that you can make the same argument, what is too much morning combat at the same time? I know I'm a little washy today and bloated and just feeling like a rag doll. If we ever, you know, if someone ever pays us a lot of money to bring it MK daily style, I may have to turn my life around and get in training camp for this. Yeah. Well, we, both of us are going to have to, uh, you know, uh, kicking it to high gear.

All right. Very quickly. Let's go to this co-main event. Tim Elliott ticking on Ryan Benoit wins 29, 28 across the board. Um, I didn't understand some of the on-screen. I was with Daniel Cormier on this one. They were like, oh, betting to win. Tim Elliott's, or excuse me, Benoit, his chances are looking good.

I'm like, Tim's winning this fight. Like, what are y'all talking about? Well, no, let me stop you because this is interesting. I listened to the Luke Thomas show yesterday for the first time at length. Wow. My lease was up. I bought a new car. I was driving around the hilly back roads.

Why don't you tell the folks what Indigo Girls-inspired vehicle you purchased so you can take the family to Lilith Fair? Look, I've had crappy economy-efficient cars most of my adult life without a lot of money. I didn't splurge on this, but I got a 2020 Subaru Crosstrek. For me, it's like driving a money. I didn't splurge on this, but I got a, you know, 2020 Subaru cross-track. It's for me, it's like driving a Mercedes. I'm cheap, you know?

But I got the satellite radio, the sunroof, the leather seats, windows down. I'm driving through some mountainous back roads, and I'm giving Luke Thomas like 90 minutes of my time, and you almost were getting BC conspiracy theorist level on the Max Holloway-Volkanovsky rematch over the weekend and the timing of those tweets and who they were favoring. And I appreciate the radio argument you gave that they were so overwhelming in the favor of Holloway early. You mix that with Michael Bisping's commentary, which was very Holloway heavy,

and maybe that's starting to seduce the audience. It's no different than you're watching boxing on tv and the in-house scorer on the network has it in one direction and that leads you to believe that's who's winning are you trying to go a little bit further though and say there's any potential conspiracy there at all Luke no I mean the argument I made you got it mostly right but you missed the key detail it wasn't merely I was arguing that this being and by the way Anik too and by the way listen's the thing. Why were people really upset that Max didn't get the nod? Well, number one, it was a close fight, and he won the first two rounds, so

it's understandable they would think that he won, flat out. Number two, I thought the commentary, not in any kind of conspiratorial way, was just really complimentary of Max's efforts, and I can understand that. It just, it is what it was. And then, as you indicated, the tweets, if I looked it up, they did not put up a positive tweet praising Max's effort until 3.42 of the fifth round. So for every moment before that, sorry, a positive of Volkanovsky's effort. So for after rounds one, two, three, and four, and through parts of five,

it was just solid, oh my God, Max looks great, blah, blah, blah. And then the part you missed was that they kept showing data on the screen about the striking totals. And literally every time they did it, every single number was wrong. And not just wrong,

wrong in really important ways. Conspiracy alert? No, no, here's the thing. I talked to Fightmetric about it. What they said was they score fights in real time. Then when the fights are over, they go back over them and pick up on all the things that they missed

because it's hard to catch everything in real time. Fair enough. But that should give you pause. I don't think the UFC was trying to be like, oh, let's make a case for max to win because if they did what good does that do everyone got pissed all i'm simply saying is you have to be really careful when you're on these broadcasts because between the tweets and the numbers and the commentary and by the way max doing really well

at the end you there's been all this messaging about how well he's done and i wonder what the response would have been if those numbers had not been shown and the tweets were a little bit more balanced and the commentary a little bit more in between i don't know but i can't believe that that had nothing to do with people's impressions i think that's the argument so here i thought you were a little harsh on bisping though in terms of his mean, look, the guy's got one eye at the end of the day, he can't see everything, you know? I thought Bisping did a phenomenal job in the Poirier and hooker fight to the point where to me, I'm not saying he made the fight, but I would not have been able to enjoy that

fight as much as I did were it not for Bisping. And, but here, the reality about this, we're getting a little bit sidetracked, which is dude, Volkanovski and Holloway, when they fight, it is extremely difficult to understand what they're doing, even for the most advanced person, which I am not. And so I understand why the commentary went the way that it went. It's not, I don't know who could do that job much better. Maybe Cruz and DC, maybe. But even that is, they're going to, go back and watch the first fight. It was Joe Rogan and DC.

They missed a ton of stuff, and that's DC. If even DC is going to miss a ton of stuff, nobody has a prayer. So it's less about that. It's just more about the occupational hazards of calling elite MMA. Dude, it's hard. It's super hard. And we have to sort of take inventory of what those limitations and unconscious biases may mean in terms of on-screen messaging. That's all I'm saying.

I thought that was a fair debate, not to rehash your radio show, but I thought that was a fair debate you had where it is difficult in real time. that I have certain blockages that make my score, whatever that matters, my score as a journalist, easy to be criticized because somebody watching at home is watching replays or closer angles and all that. We've debated a lot about how you fix scoring. We did it on Monday's Morning Combat. I'm wondering after hearing lengthy debates if the easiest quick fix without blowing up systems is just going to five judges for title fights only, right?

Or main events. Title fights and main events only. You go to five judges. You throw out the two outlying scores. And you stick with the three in the middle. You should get a winner. Is that that hard? So I don't think that's crazy.

Here was my idea. I don't know if you heard this part. But what I think is I've often said I think we should judge fights as a whole versus the 10-point must system because i just don't feel like the the the criticism the 10-point must system is that it's not accurate enough to reflect what's going on and i don't think that changes with the way we score fights which is to say the following look at fight metric their numbers they put out after a round they know are not accurate it's the most accurate that they can be but there's clearly a huge gap between that and what they find out after the fact. And what sort of occurred to me when I was

going, because I have a dissected coming out on Volkanovski and Holloway, ABC, and what occurred to me was I was going over the tape over and over and over again. And I'll tell you, in the process of that, the case for Volkanovski became a lot stronger but then I thought what does that even mean like what does that matter if it takes this much tape examination for me to understand something how could I blame the judges you know and I know they've I know they got it for Volkanovski but I'm saying in a case where maybe you disagreed with them how can you blame them because they don't have access to any of this stuff so when folks are like I'm gonna fact check the judges I'm gonna get on my computer I'm gonna look at this in slow So when folks are like, I'm going to fact check the judges, I'm going to get on my computer and I'm going to look at this in slow motion. I always think to

myself, I'm not saying you're not finding a more accurate picture, but you're not using any of the tools that judges have. Like, what are you going to, hold on, let me make this one point. It's like, hold on, hold on, hold on. My point is this. If you find that the judges made a mistake to me, that's like, yeah, of course they did. Fight metric makes a mistake real time. They have to go back and fix it later. My idea is as follows, BC. For title fights and any five-round main event,

judge it as normal. Don't change anything. If you lose in either of those cases via split, you should ask the commission to have one person expertly review it. They will review it and then give their recommendation to either uphold or to vacate the call. What do you think? Who wants to have sex with Mutombo?

No, no, no, no, no. Look, what we don't want is any... Look, you know what I hate about the modern NBA? A lot. A lot about modern NBA. I'm sorry. I've got to be the old guy over 40 who wants to post up basketball and pick and roll and doesn't want to see 103 shot per game wow that sounded really old didn't it anyway what i hate about the modern game is you can have this crazy buzzer beater moment

and then we all have to pause and wait 10 minutes for you know the referees to get under the hood and re-watch it and make sure the right team won and i know everyone's going to argue in that spot and say don't you want the right team to have won? No, I want the moment. I want that big moment there of, you know, look, they got it wrong. They got it wrong. We'll check afterwards.

I think that kills the excitement. It kills a lot of things. What you're pro, uh, what you're, you know, suggesting may have more elements of fairness to it, but nobody wants to watch a a fight have an outcome and then know it potentially can change and then there's elements of you know political connections and all that um you need to have a winner confirmed when it ends you know look my idea with an extra judge extra judges just for title fights would at least protect the sanctity of a title fight i think at the very least whatever change you make let's get it right on title fights first but i don't like any idea of let's delay and have an appeal and maybe it can change or maybe there's an

automatic rematch if it was a split decision i don't want anything to do with that well so here's why i i understand that the need to do it quickly so my other idea would be on top of that any review would have to be done within 30 days and again that doesn't solve your problem specifically but it at least you know puts a timeline on it, which I think would be better. But the reason why I'm doing what I'm doing is I understand the impulse to say, well, we need a decision there and it has to stand, right? It's so weird in the Olympics where someone gets a medal and then you find out, you know, eight years later, BC, they got a medal in 2008. Where was the games in 2008? They were in, was it London 2008?

No, Beijing, Beijing. Beijing. So, you know, you find out someone gets a gold medal in the Beijing games. Here we are at Rio and they get stripped because, you know, they tested positive for something they discovered later. Justice for Ben Johnson, please. It's still real to me. Well, you can't go back and undo that medal ceremony. It all still stands, right?

So I understand that point. I think it's a fair concern. But here's what I'm saying. Two points. One, I don't think you can treat these things as glibly as saying, well, the result should stand because we need integrity of results. I get it. But that consequence for Max is utterly enormous. It is so huge that now he may never be in another title fight again. I'm not saying that he won't be. It's impossible. But he has a tough road in front of him, promotionally at 145, competitively at 155. I think that should matter. The second thing I would say is you can't treat these results

like an umpire calling balls and strikes in a game. People in baseball will say, listen, every umpire has their own strike zone and a certain call can be consequential, right? Bases loaded, tie game, but, or, you know, what they're up by one or whatever. And you, you know, full count and you get called a strike when it was actually a ball, that one call could be consequential, but how many pitches are there in a game? A hundred, 150, 200, right? So it's just an aggregate. You just say, let it slide. Dude, there aren't enough of these in fighting to just treat it like an umpire calling balls and strikes on some level. They've got to get it right. And here's my thing. You are telling

people to just look at something with no data, no ability to review. They have to turn in their scores immediately. You can see that fight metric gets it wrong. You can see judges after you review it get it wrong. It's a terrible way to adjudicate dispute. It's awful. You have to have some kind of method to make sure they get it right when it's the most serious. I'm with you. I'm all for

adjudication, but let's have a winner when the night ends and it stands. Maybe we've got to go Dana White, Cave caveman and say no decisions in title fights. You can't win the title unless it's a unanimous decision. I don't know. That's all bullshit too. Look, Luke, let's just get the title fights right.

All right? Two more judges, maybe one in front of a monitor backstage, blindfolded, smearing peanut butter, watching it in black and white on the screen. Whatever it takes, let's get this ish right. All right. And then any thoughts on Tim Elliott's win? Nice win by him at flyweight. Yeah, he needed it, dude. I know he signed a new deal, but recently, but you know, no one wants to lose four in a row and he's better than that. He was in those fights that he lost.

I thought, you know, you could have scored this for, for Benoit. He landed some heavy punches and you know, he was the, he wasn't the aggressor, but he was the, the bully in there when it mattered most, but look, they, they rewarded Elliott's activity, and especially when that fight would go to the ground. You know, he's forever trying to get a submission. I don't like the choice to cut the mullet. It was very on brand for him to be that wild man. I don't know if he ever gets back to the title level. We saw him, you know, he gave a good effort against Demetrius Johnson at the tail end of that run.

But he's going to be a tough out for everybody. He fights reckless. He's got a weird style. A good win for him. He needed it. I don't like the mullet thing. I'm not down with it. So I like the haircut. All right. Here's an interesting one. I feel like the fight took place at featherweight, but obviously it's between two bantamweights. Jimmy Rivera taking on Cody Stammen wins two 30-27s and one 29-28. Man, if there is one person at Bantamweight who is elite and kind of forgotten, it's Jimmy Rivera. And I get it, right?

He doesn't have the most scintillating highlight head kick knockout reel. He's not super, you know, calling out people on the mic, BC. That dude can fight his ass off. Cody Stammen is massively improved since relocating to Vegas. I thought it wasn't like Rivera was like way better than him, but you could just see Rivera was able to make better decisions, kind of dictated the offense eventually by the time the third round came around. Great takedown defense when he needed it. Great cage control when he needed it. He's just a complete fighter. And then afterwards,

electing to use his time with John Anik to help out this woman who has been doing makeup, I think. Cindy, I forget her last name. Please forgive me. She's a GoFundMe page, which I donated to BC. If you haven't done it yet, you should do that. Just a class guy. And one of these guys that had Tiger Shulman that people just don't think of when they think of elite bantamweights. That that dude is elite and people should say it out loud his days at the top

of that division are by no means over yeah and that i mean look he needed this win as well along with tim elliott and he got it and the good news for him is that wasn't even the best of him i mean he didn't have an opponent as recently as what four or five days ago he had been out for a lengthy time he had lost i mean look this is why we kind of forget about him his three losses in four fights after that huge start to his career right 21 and one when he looked like he was entering the title picture that'll make people believe you're not elite and then you know what didn't he have a usada hiccup too i'm not making that up right no i don't believe that's right but i can't remember

all right well you know he had things going against him to be the cool guy in the room right he's going bald he's got bad tats and he's got a grinder style but but you know he ground her he did believe me and he got it done the old-fashioned way uh technical work in the clinch uh workmanlike and you know he has to prove to us again that he can be elite and i don't think anything that happened on wednesday night you know goes against that he's only going to get better the more active he gets again. It was a featherweight bout, but it's two Bantamweights. Stamen had the opportunity to make another

good story onto a bad situation with losing his brother, but the better man won, and that's what you want. I have a funny Jimmy Rivera story. You want to hear it? Yeah, come on. Jersey, great. Where was I backstage for? What was the last ufc show at barclays was that the one in january the uh the first that was that was that dillashaw and uh

suhudo that was that was that one right the first ufc on espn plus wasn't what year was that was that was that 2019 dill yeah dillashaw yeah this yes that was the fight before he popped so i had had jimmy rivera on my show literally that week or maybe like the week before, like literally days before. And he comes backstage. He was not fighting. And I wanted to just thank him for coming on the show because I had never been introduced to him in person. And I was like, hey, Jimmy, took my hand out to shake it. He shook it.

And I was like, I really appreciate you coming on the show. And I swear to God, he goes, you are? I was like, I'm the guy whose show you went on this week. My name is Luke. Thank you for coming on. He's like, you're Luke who? I'm like, I'm Luke Thomas. You were on my show.

Just a, never mind. It's fine. Just thank you for coming on. So I was like, all right. I got big time by Jimmy Rivera. Yeah. Well, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Well, that happens. Luke, I know you'd never shaved the beard, but would you be interested in coloring your hair at all? I'm speaking for the people here. No, never. I don't care how stupid it looks. I'm not coloring it. I don't think it looks stupid. It looks educated and, you know. Nah, it looks stupid. I mean, I've got gray, like someone, you know who it was? You know, Paul Lazenby? Like he did MMA and pro wrestling, right? Paul Lazenby, the Canadian guy, right? I hadn't heard about him until you mentioned him like someone you know who it was you know paul lazenby like he did mma and pro wrestling right

paul lazenby the canadian guy right i hadn't heard about him until you mentioned him on a previous show but i know who he is now yeah he said i looked like peter parker's boss you ever seen spider-man's boss yep yep he's got the gray here and then the and then the hair on yeah i look like peter parker's stupid ass boss i look like an idiot and i know i do i just don't care anymore. I'm too old. All right. All right.

Hey, look, you've already secured the punani, so you're doing well. I don't know if we can take that. Exactly. Who am I trying to impress anymore? All right, so women's flyweight. All our listeners are male anyway, all right? Yeah. Have you seen our listeners?

I mean, you, me, and them, we are all garbage pail kids at this point. We should not. We're not prize pigs. Okay. Talia Santos makes her debut against Molly McCann winning 37 across the board. Don't have a lot to say except Santos looked good, dude. She looked like she was in good shape. She was able

to take them out later, physically strong. She looked awesome. Yeah, she crushed that meatball like me you know, for lunch with the footlong sub there. That was fantastic. For real, she's 16 and 1. I mean, I know like me uh you know uh for lunch with the footlong sub there that was fantastic for real she she's 16 and one i mean i know this is you know her she's early in her usc run but um considering that molly mccann was on a three fight win streak and came in in much better shape than normal and was really sort of going for it this was like one-sided this was like you

know professional and almost borderline amateur and that's a compliment to talia here look uh you know women's flyweight is so damn shallow you got a pulse you got 99 a pulse and and you got a job you might be able to get a title shot soon against jeff janko and she showed a lot of those things that like you know i don't want to say things like championship mindset but there was a maturity to her there was certainly length and technique and all that and toughness, but she looked like she belonged. So I want to see a lot more of her in a short period of time. Let's do it. Yeah.

McCann came out with some fire and Santos shut it down. So that was a pretty impressive win. Now the most impressive or at least fun fight on the main card, Munir Lazez against the returning Abdul Razak Elhassan. It was kind of weird in the broadcast. I mean, I get why they didn't want to bring it up, but they're like, you know, Munir Lizez has a really interesting story about fighting in the octagon. I'm like,

yeah, so does Elhassan. For folks who may not know, was arrested and then tried for rape and beat it. Was fully exonerated. And here he is back. I think he lost a couple years of his career. Yeah, he's going to be on episode six of outcry on showtime be on the lookout for it yeah anyway duke lacrosse team got it right i think i'm fired for that right let's keep uh please don't get us fired abdul

razaq alhassan dude as was well known super firepower a little bit you know kind of lets loose with some hooks but major major firepower and dude lezzez sat there and took it and then kept coming and kept coming to the point where he basically overwhelmed him winning 230 27s and 129 28 where he was firing knees up the middle those those lead elbows over the top he was pressing alhassan back into the cage stuffing takedowns dude that kid unbelievably ridiculous chin and he looks like he's got some real ability bc called out mike perry afterwards i want to see it woo ha got you all in check he is a violent mfr shout out to northern africa uh tunisia there but But it sucks for Alhassan to fight, to make it that fun of a fight and not even get the bonus money because he missed weight coming in.

But, you know, he almost had a fin. I mean, he almost took, you know, Laze's soul in the opening, you know, minute there with that barrage. And unfortunately, it sort of gassed him to a degree and that opened the comeback. But to see a newcomer like that, you know, have such vicious strikes with the elbows, have a great chin, have a motor and that opened the comeback but to see a newcomer like that you know have such vicious strikes with the elbows have a great chin have a motor and have sort of a you know uh in a good way like a sadistic level to him and like i was coming for your soul i didn't expect a mike perry shout out um you know you hear that story of how he even got to the ufc with you know they were playing it up on the broadcast with the teenage kid running up to Dana White and showing him the highlights on the phone.

Like that's, that's the stuff that dreams are made of here. I'm ready for this guy. I don't, you know, tough to tell from a matchup like this, really how good he is. But Al Hassan, Al Hassan, Al Hassan, Razak, Al Hassan, what am I saying here? Al Hassan's tough. He's legit. They don't, fighters from Akragana, they can bang. Okay. Let me bang, okay?

Let me bang, bro. And he did, and I want to see a lot more of this guy. That's the best thing you could say, Luke, about cards like this. Not a deep card on paper, getting introduced to a lot of these people for the first time. Even with all these fights going to the decision, there's two fighters back-to-back we just mentioned I want to see more of. I was shocked that fight went three rounds. I mean,hassan was bombing on him in the first and was landing huge shots through the rest of the fight and lazaz was going to the body constantly i thought for sure alhassan was going to gas nope he stuck

it out too although he had missed weight and made 174 so to your point couldn't get the bonus when they got fight of the night from the prelim card b, I won't go through every one of these. The couple that stand out to me, first of all, Hamzat Chimaev, just absolutely running over John Phillips. And then, I don't know, did he call out somebody? I don't know, but that kid looks like the truth. Yeah, he had the sousaphone out there on John Phillips. Fantastic job right there.

I also like my Lithuanian brethren, Modestus Bukaukis. We can't say what his last name sounds like, but he passed it around, Luke, to get a nice finish on Andreas Mikulidis. What did you make of Bisping saying that it was... So for folks who may not remember, michelitis or michelitis whatever was trying to take down bukowskis against the fence and bukowskis was doing those like curving elbows which most of them appear to be legal maybe not all of them but most of them were and then the round ended there so he drops and the referee's like are you okay are you okay asked him multiple

times not sure how many but at least three And then he kind of goes to sit. And when he sits, he kind of falls out of the cage because the door was open. I forgot about that. As I was telling you, I was impressed by the guy getting the win, but that's a bunk finish. And you know that, Luke. Why? He thought he got knocked.

Well, the door opened up. The guy fell back. He didn't fall back because he was KO'd, right? There was a borderline foul there, the whole situation. It seems a little like it didn't have to end that way. And you know it. Here's my thing. If you're the referee and the guy drops to his knees after that

and doesn't get up and go back to his stool, and you ask him multiple times if he's okay and he does not answer you, and then the first move he makes is to sit and then he falls backwards, I can understand uh bisping's point i think it's a fair one that well if the cage door wasn't open maybe he doesn't fall back but the fact that he went that long being unresponsive and then he does i can understand why the referee was like okay i've had enough here no yeah i mean his body language didn't support a fighter who was ready to fight so it's his fault in the end you know it's kind of like when you're in boxing and you're cornered and you're almost kind of quasi sitting on the

ropes and you're not throwing back they're gonna stop that fight and it's your fault you know even if you're not even if you're not hurt it is what it is out there uh did you see uh poor john annick by the way he was gutting it out on like no sleep everyone there is uh did you see that interview with uh liana jojua that was uh kind of quasi in english but not really and john's like hey you know you can use the interpreter and then she's like no no my camp good he's like no you can you really you can use the interpreter finally he's like okay great fight you know hope to see you again she goes hold on my camp good oh that was that was brutal i i like it was it was you know oh yeah it was a little

borat-esque but here's the thing. My wife, she's dead. She started the interview by saying my English is not so good. So it wasn't like she didn't warn you. Can we get the Apollo Theater hook in that situation and just move on? It has to come to a point where the UFC just makes like an executive decision. Where it's like, you know, you got to be at least proficient in English to get an interview. You know what I'm saying?

That's like me trying to answer. That was like me trying to order food in Spanish in Colombia and getting laughed at by the locals. They're like, sir, you can leave the line now. And I'm like, no, I would like an arepa, please. They're like, get the fuck out of the line. Arepa? Didn't Alh like, get the fuck out of the line. Arepa? Didn't Alhassan get cleared? What?

No, bad South American food joke. Sorry. Yeah, really terrible. By the way, I want to point this out. Lerone Murphy gained the win over Ricardo Ramos. Brutal ground and pound. How about Jared Gordon housing Chris Fishgold 330 26s uh then he mentions all this stuff about you know the personal he i didn't know he had a false positive test for

covid when he got to fight island then of course he tested negative enough times where they let it rock loses his whole corner to covid paul felder steps up. Eric Nixick steps up. We talked about that on Monday. And then he reveals, BC, that I guess two or three weeks ago, his wife had a miscarriage. I said this on Twitter. I don't mind talking about it because couples just don't. My wife and I experienced one several years ago. It is devastating, man.

It is devastating. Obviously, it depends how far along in the gestation process. And I think that probably does make some of a difference to how painful it is but for him to go through all that bc plus the travel and not only win but win 30 26 across the board dude that is an impressive guy yeah that was a feel-good moment there i enjoyed that a lot uh and i enjoyed everybody else as we talked about joining hands you know it's good it's good when we get those feel-good stories in the MMA community and the greater family coming together to support each other. There's too much of a...

I mean, look, Luke, you say it often. There ain't no good people in this game, and people make fun of you for that, and you're a little bit overblown. There are some great people, Luke, okay? Brett Okamoto, top shelf, all right? Top shelf. I don't say that there are none.

I say that there are rare. I'd consider giving him a kidney. I wouldn't go through with it, but I'd consider it easier in his country with the healthcare to make that happen, though. I don't say that there are no good guys, and I don't give a shit if people make fun of me for it. I say that there are very few, and the answer

to whether that's true is absolutely that's true. It's full of a lot of totally deranged people. Okay, lastly, Jack Shore defeats Aaron Phillips. Holdillips did you see the schmo showed up in in uh the uae is he i did coming for morgan's blue shirt should we be on the lookout for this i guess bro you can see his uh his jacket it looks like a like a rug at the bellagio uh all the way in the back there he's out there bro he's making it happen for himself god bless him have a great travel budget shout out to the schmo for making that happen yeah. He's out there, bro. He's making it happen for himself. God bless him.

Hey, he must have a great travel budget. Shout out to the Schmo for making that happen. Yeah, bro. He's out there. I mean, he's got a studio in Vegas. Schmo's killing the game. All right. And then lastly, Jack Short defeats Aaron Phillips

at 229 of the second round of your rear naked choke. Nice win. By the way, I don't know if you know this. You mentioned the JoJua win over Belbita. I think that I read something like, if you're talking about submission wins in men's divisions versus females, that like the women,

I think 40% of submissions for women are arm bars. And I could be getting this wrong. I think it's something like 15% on the men's side. I don't know exactly what explains that, but kind of an interesting disparity there. Interesting. I don't know exactly what explains that but um kind of an interesting disparity there interesting i don't know yeah uh fight of the night went to lizez and hal hassan performance of the night murphy jamaev and then bukowskis i was surprised they didn't give one to cater but what are you gonna do i guess well it it was it was thorough and impressive but it wasn't

overwhelming all right so it takes us a little bit here, BC, to this Saturday. This Saturday is another UFC contest. And at the top of it, they're going to find a way to make it happen, it seems. They're going to do it again from UFC. What was it, Norfolk before? I can't remember which one it was. Where Deveson Figueredo is going to have a rematch with Joseph Benavidez. And it's for the vacant flyweight title.

Of course, Figueredo beat Benavidez the first time but missed weight, so he couldn't get the title. Then he tests positive for COVID, but I guess it was a false positive, so they're going to try to make it happen. What is your sense, BC, about Figueredo versus Benavidez 2? I'm really excited that it's happening. Given the uncertainty, I know they had that it's happening, given the uncertainty. I know they had Alexandre Pantoja on line one.

He's going to be on this card anyway, and by the way, a really good fight. But, you know, no one would have wanted, look, there's an emotional level at stake here. We all like Jiu-Jitsu, right? Benavidez, he has the opportunity here for a biz pinging and, like, late career, finally climbed the mountain, super deserving, all that. And, you know, you add the added wrinkle of that knockout loss at Norfolk when his opponent misses Wade and headbutts him and all that. But I didn't want that to potentially happen against Pandoja.

No disrespect, right? Like in a lot of ways, you know, I wanted Benavidez to go through Cejudo, you know, a guy he had beaten in a fight of the year four years ago. Well, it's not going to happen. I think this is close enough given that, you know, he just got knocked out by this guy under all those circumstances. This is going to be a very interesting fight. Yeah, you're asking a lot of Figueiredo with the whole last minute situation, the false positive, all that, but you know, he's going to come in there and bang and dye weird colors into his hair. So I want to ask you this, Luke.

There's so much bad luck for Benavidez. He's 35, and this is the last of the last of the last opportunities for him. Somebody like Holly Holm, she may backdoor into a title. I mean, if Amanda Nunes retires tomorrow, they're putting Holly Holm in another title fight. That's just how the game works at times. Benavidez ain't getting no other opportunities than this.

I wonder if he should carpe diem the shit out of this fight, Luke, and realize that I can't lose a bunk decision. I can't hope I don't get kicked in the crotch or poked in the eye. I'm going to have to go out there and get rid of this guy. I'm going to have to do this. To do this the right way, I'm going to have to go in there, not reckless, but I'm going to have to go for the damn finish. I wonder if he adjusts to that mindset. I wonder if he's considering that. And I wonder if that could be the avenue to getting what he feels he deserves.

I have a feeling he's not going to do that. I have a feeling what he's going to do is try and play it safer early on. Clinch where he can. Make Figueredo work. Because even if Figueredo makes weight, you know that weight cut's going to kill him, right? You know it is. So if you can just postpone actively going for offense until a little bit later in the fight when it's much easier to manage, that seems like a doable thing. Just make it about workload, not about offense and defense,

and it's a doable thing because, dude, Figueiredo laid them out last time. And I forget who was talking about it. I can't remember. I was watching some podcast. And they sort of think at Benavidez at 35, you know, knocked out several times at this point. Some people can get knocked out a bunch, and they kind of just, it doesn't really affect them all that bad.

And then some get knocked out a few times, and it's like it's a wrap for them. Maybe it was Big John and Josh Thompson. I can't remember. But Benavidez, you know, I'm not saying he's not Lazez. Okay. I don't think he's like Chuck Liddell versus Rich Franklin in that sense either. But Figueredo definitely has the better firepower,

definitely has the better striking, and that's just not something you can play with if you want to maximize your chances. He's going to have to make it ugly and make it late. What about pushing pace on him? What about just making it a track meet? Yeah, make him move. As much as you can make him work.

If you had to pinpoint what advantage Benavidez might have, experience, maybe better scrambler, something like that, but he's probably going to have better cardio. Cardio is absolutely going to be his best. People don't think of cardio as a weapon. They think of it as a condition, but if you know how to use it properly, it's absolutely a weapon. Max Holloway, for example, made it a weapon against Aldo in both of those fights. He has to weaponize cardio, basically, is what I think. Just trying to go bonkers with Figueiredo. I don't know, man.

That's a recipe to get laid out again. If this ends up as an unhappy ending, where are we going to put Joseph Benavidez, a great fighter, in the ultimate list of the greatest bridesmaids? I consider Dan Henderson the greatest UFC fighter to never win a UFC title, although when you add what he did in Pride and strike force it almost cancels that out even mr faber you know at least was wec champion and you know the best in the in the world in the small weight classes for a short period there uh is joe benavidez next in line after those two for

greatest fighters to never win a ufc title would you put him ahead of a Demian Maia, a Jacare? He is probably ahead of them. I don't think he's ahead of Overeem, but he is up there. Listen to the names he's beaten. Juicier Formiga, Dustin Ortiz, Alex Perez, Henry Cejudo, Zach Makovsky, Ali

Bagoutinov, John Moraga, again, Dustin Ortiz, Tim Elliott, Formiga again, and then sort of an old school guard. These were the top guys back then. Darren Yuyanoyama, John Moraga, again, Dustin Ortiz, Tim Elliott, Formiga again, and then sort of an old school guard. These were the top guys back then. Darren Uyenoyama, Ian McCall, Yasuhiro Uru-Shitani. You could argue he should have beaten Demetrius Johnson the first time. We all know the controversy there.

Eddie Wineland, Ian Loveland, Vagni Fabiano, Miguel Torres, Hani Yaya, Jeff Curran, Danny Martinez, and so on and so forth. Dude, he's beaten a ridiculous list of guys. That was back when beating Miguel Torres was a, you know, that meant something. That was 2010. And he submitted him at that in only his 13th fight. Like, dude, Joseph Benavidez, if he does not win a title, is absolutely one of the best fighters ever to never have a UFC title.

So it's him, Yoel Romero so far, although, you know, Joyce allowed on that one, I suppose. Hendo, Overeem. Who are some other ones that I had thought of that I put, you mentioned Maya and Jacare. I'd probably put them on that list as well. There's a bunch you could pick, but dude, he's at the near top of that list. Not really on it. It'd be a shame. On the other hand, if he wins, he wins of course you know he becomes sort of like what happened with michael bisping where your last chapter you know you beat a guy who previously beat you and you get the title and um it would transform his career i don't think it would put him in the hall of fame because it's not enough for that although one never knows but it would absolutely if you're a nice guy you get in the hall of fame all right if you try if you you know

if you've played poker with dana you get in the Hall of Fame. Come on. Yeah, but it depends what wing. By the way, you're going to live down. Did you try to make a take last week, and I didn't hear it in real time, that Aldo wasn't already a Hall of Famer? Because Twitter was ready to steal your daughter from you. No, people don't understand anything because they have poor reading and listening

comprehension skills. The argument that I made was not that he was not a Hall of Famer, although it may have been packaged that way, the way it was cut up for the show. The argument is he's probably a Hall of Famer. I mean, he's not in there yet, but it seems like he will probably go in there. The question is, is he like a Mount Rushmore?

Hold on, hold on. The question is, he is probably close to, if not already in, the conversation for Mount Rushmore all-time great. And I made the argument quite explicitly, it's not difficult to argue that case. The argument I was making was, let's just presume, for the sake of argument, he's on the bubble. If he beat, had he beat Jan, there is no argument at that point so either you

could make a case for him or you could say it's a little bit somewhere close the whole point about beating jan was it is so ironclad at that point you couldn't even argue otherwise it would not even be possible whereas now i think there's at least a little bit of a debate to be had all right but but the way that you presented that and obviously the headline uh tricked people it led people to believe you were trying to make the case that he wasn't already and then i got thrown in like like i'm responsible for you as if like you said the n-word or something and i didn't stop you you know what i mean like come on yeah well listen if people read headlines and they don't watch videos i don't give a shit about their opinion and neither should you yeah and by the way if if you say the N-word, you're off the show

and it's me and the schmo moving forward, okay? Understandably, but good news for you, I don't do that. Alright, so also on this card there's a couple of interesting fights, but the co-main event Jack Hermanson is back. Jack Hermanson taking on Kelvin Gastelum at middleweight. Dude, what a sleeper

fight this is, BC. It's going to be really interesting. I want to talk to you about Gastelum, okayweight. Dude, what a sleeper fight this is, BC. It's going to be really interesting. I want to talk to you about Gastelum. Okay, Luke? I was there at 236. People remember me in the orange pullover. Weird outfit choice that night. But I was front row to the best fight I've ever seen in boxing or MMA in person against Israel Adesanya.

Look, I don't think you can argue that night that Gastelum was elite, title contender, potential. Like, he was everything, right? That was the best, in a lot of ways, distillation of who that man can be and could be. And there's, you know, it was important because a lot of his career had been missed weight, show you flashes, but never really give it to you in that regard. There are people, my colleague Brandon Wise at CBS Sports is one of them, who's like, you know, y'all been drinking the juice of that performance against Adesanya in which he fought his balls off, poured it out in the middle, almost rallied for a submission win. I mean, everything was great, but that I'm drunk on the idea that he is and has always been who he is in that fight.

And I like to, you know, aggressively say, you know, argue that and be like, no, like he is that guy. But if you are going to, you know, he's only 28, by the way, too. But if you are going to look at his recent run, you do have to be honest that he is two and three with one no contest in his last five. One of those wins was the knockout of Bisping that shouldn't have happened, right? That's your fight shouldn't even been booked. And the other one was a split decision when I think over Jacare. Yep. And, you know, yeah, he just lost split decision in a tough fight with Till.

And he got submitted by Weidman for the other fight. I think you could make that case when you look at the recent resume. I do personally believe that there is elite talent in there. He hasn't always been able to put it out. But I will tell you what this fight offers him. If he loses this, Luke, and it's three in a row against very good fighters, but a step down from the fighters he's recently lost to, he will be no longer in that elite conversation.

But if he wins it, good God, he's right there on the title doorstep again. You know, yeah, Costa's in line. Whitaker, you know, Till winner will be right behind that. But he's not going to be too far, especially if there ends up being a potential to rematch him if Adesanya still has the title. So I get that debate, but I'm not buying in completely.

Yeah, it's an interesting one. Hermanson sitting at six, Gastelum sitting at seven. You're right, in his last six fights for Gastelum, won three, lost two, won no contest. That should have been a win. It was a win over Vitor Belfort, but... No, won two, lost three, Luke. Won two, lost three, is that right?

In his last 6, you're right. He beat Bisping and Souza and then lost to Weidman, Adesanya, Till, and then the Belfort one. By the way, that Weidman loss is now kind of a bad loss, right? Yeah, he got submitted. It's only one of the losses where he got stopped. He nearly got stopped by Adesanya in the 5th round,

obviously before the buzzer, and there was a split decision loss to Darren Till. But you're right. I can never tell whether he's coming or going. There are times where I count him out and he totally exceeds my expectations. And then I'm like, okay, all right, well, I was wrong about him. And then he goes in there and he'll lose or he'll be uncomfortably close in ways I did not anticipate. I have a hard time sort of gauging. And to your point, like, I remember the day he was supposed to fight Whitaker, and then we found out, you know, Whitaker had the stomach issue,

and the whole thing was off, and it was a terrible night for him. That was the Adesanya versus Silva night, right? But, you know, back then, he was like, you know, we all thought, like, I don't know if he's going to beat Whitaker, but Gaslam's going to give him a run for his money. Gives Adesanya toughest fight he's ever had by a million miles in terms of wins.

And then he goes against Darren Till. I thought that was a terrible fight for Till to take. Till showed tremendous growth, and it was close, but I thought Till should have won outright, not immediately split. I don't know what's going to happen here. Because Hermansen, if you look at the way which he lost to, who's the guy who wears all the rocks, the crystals? What's his face? You know what I'm talking about?

The rock, Dwayne Johnson, yeah. I got it in front of me, okay? Jared Cannoneer? Jared Cannoneer, yes. Jared Cannoneer. He got stopped after that four-fight win streak where he looked like a quasi-contender, and then he got sent to hell.

Yeah, well, here's the thing. How did he do it? He stuffed all the takedowns, out-scrambled, and then on the feet, it just turns out Hermanson is probably, he might be elite if he can use the totality of his game, not if he has to just rely on his striking. And so you have to think, okay, if Cannoneer can do that, shouldn't Gaston be able to do that he can wrestle he should have

good cardio or good enough cardio and it's only three rounds and he can obviously strike with the best of them he's got a big heavy punch even at 185 but like I can't tell whether he's coming or going man I really don't and you're right about all the consequences he loses it's terrible

he wins he's probably back in the top five again. I'm lost on this one. Dude, seriously, he's right there. If Adesanya beats Costa next, and then if Whitaker wins, he probably gets the rematch. If Whitaker doesn't win, and Gastelum does on Saturday, you could argue he gets slid

in for the next opportunity. So we'll see how that one goes. By the way, what are the odds on that one? Let me see here very quickly. I it i gotta uh i use best fight odds they don't pay me anything it's just a helpful resource oh they've got it as a pick them bc her manson minus 105 gastelum minus 115 wow if yeah it's about right keeps that fight on the feet luke he can win it he can knock him out um There's a couple of interesting fights on the main card. As you mentioned, Alessandro Pantoja is back. He's taking on Askar Askarov. There's like a woman's fight on there from women's flyweight. Also back on this

card, BC, Joseph Duffy. Joseph Duffy is back against Joel Alvarez. he has lost two in a row, Joe Duffy has. He lost to James Vick via TKO and then to Dia Casey. Hasn't fought since March of 2019, so he's been off for over a year. Probably should win this one, but I remember when Duffy first came to the UFC, he's like, oh, this is the guy that submitted Conor McGregor. Boy, his stock has dropped a significant amount since then. Yes. Yeah, significantly. So this is a significant amount since then. Yes. Yeah, significantly. So this is a good opportunity to bounce back there.

I think you went a little bit too quickly, Luke, over that Pantoja, I guess. Yeah, I guess. Luke, I keep doing this today. I can't speak. Wow. Pantoja against Askarov. Tell me if I'm wrong here on Askarov. I'm seeing a future title contender there

I know he had that draw with Moreno that was fantastic and then he came back with another win after that I'm seeing that Russian toughness I'm seeing a wrestling game but also a willingness to go in the deep end in the striking Pantoja's ranked number 3

and while he's a tough fighter he's certainly not a guy that I look at and go, oh yeah, that guy could be a future champion. I'm not sure if Askarov doesn't win this and win this impressively that he might be the next title challenger. Well, to your point about Pantoja, he only has two losses in the UFC, one to Dustin Ortiz back in 2018, and then one to Figueredo, who's fighting for the title, and be unanimous, but after the Figueredo loss, let me actually back up a step. Before that, he beat Wilson Hayes.

And then after that, he knocked out Matt Schnell. Matt Schnell is easily one of the most improved fighters on the UFC roster. He is very talented. I know a lot of folks forget about that MTV show he was kind of on because he's so distinct from that. And he had a couple early stumbles in the UFC, but he has absolutely, totally transformed his game. And he got knocked out inside of the first round by Pantoja.

So you're right. Probably winner of this one takes on the winner of the main event, right? So, or yeah, flyweight to flyweight. So we'll have to see what happens there. If you don't know Askar, you better ask yourself. That guy's fantastic, Luke. You never talk about Askar Askarov. I resent you for that.

I don't, I guess. The other thing on this card that has my attention, BC, and you're going to make fun of me for it, I don't care. It's Davi Hamos taking on Armin Saryukian. This is the second fight on the prelim card. Davi Hamos won, I want to say the last or the one before

that at the 27 ADCC against Lucas Lepre via flying armbar as Lepre was sitting trying to play open sitting guard and Davi Hamos did a flying armbar on him and won ADCC he is an absolute monster on the ground Armin Saryukian

had that fight against Islam Makachev and he lost, but he showed he is an unbelievable scrambler, has Merab Davalashvili kind of cardio, maybe not as good, but pretty good, and is a workhorse. He is outmatched technically against Hamos,

but he puts in the kind of effort that might save him. I'm desperately looking forward to that contest. And also Saryukian's Armenian. Is Saryukian might save him i'm desperately looking forward to that contest and also so you can's armenians sarukian uh you're armenian brother did i guess that yes are you can is armenian yes that's why i will automatically use your friend i'm sure you him coach edmund will be fired up for this fight yes but he is i think he's part of like the uh parts of armenia that are a little bit more russia influenced so you, that wasn't exactly my

mom's upbringing, but you know. Hey, head movement just the same, Luke. Shout out to your people. Shout out to Vanis Martirosyan of the Armenian culture. Manouk Akopian from the LA Times and BoxingScene.com, another Armenian star in the

combat game. So, I'm here to support you and your people, Luke. I don't know what Rob Thomas comes from. Probably like English or angry or German or something. It is. Thomas means twin in Latin, I believe. Okay. As long as you support my Lithuanian people,

including Rosnami Yunus, then I'll back you on this, all right? What is your connection to Lithuania? I'm 50%. My mother's family are vitkauskis so uh my your mom does your mom she has she ever been to lithuania she has not but uh three of her four grandparents were from there came from there and uh uh yeah you know i think it explains my baltic toughness you know offset by my french canadian side which is probably more of my you know personality and and and softer side you know but uh you know i i look at aaron bronstetter as a brethren in this even though i'm from quebec

my people but uh yeah you know that's the history of me luke it's a great show we got right here you ever been to montreal oh yeah i've I've brutalized French there and got yelled at uh I spend uh actually uh New Year's Eve uh 2000 I spent uh in a in a back room in in Montreal wait 99 to 2000 or 2000 to 2001 it was 2000 into 2001 I was watching that Rams playoff game with Kurt Warner when they lost and then you know you go in the back room and then you regret telling that story in public all right things happen uh Luke um then you go in the back room and then you regret telling that story in public. Alright, things happen. Luke, are you going to buy the pay-per-view this weekend?

There's a pay-per-view this weekend? Yeah, it's coming to you from a fairgrounds in Iowa. It'll cost you $29.95. Kickboxing is the main event as 57-year-old Michael Nunn takes on fellow ex-boxing champion takes on fellow over 50 pat milotic in a kickboxing pay-per-view main event you just need to see your thoughts no

no i won't be watching that unfortunately or tell me you're not watching that uh no no i like gross things but not that gross okay thank you very much didn't milotic just get arrested for dui i don't i don't have an answer for that but he is he's a strong conspiratorial fella you know i've heard a few he goes deep though i gotta guess remember vince carter in the in the elbow deep he goes that deep for on on the conspiratorial what are you if you? If he's the Vince Carter elbow deep, who are you in this slam dunk contest of conspiracy theories? I like to believe, you know, because here's the thing. You're Isaiah Ryder just kind of doing this number, you know?

I might be Brent Berry from the free throw line in that awful 96 dunk contest. You know, because the 2000 dunk contest is the best one of all time, and, you know, Vince's performance is the best but people don't realize luke that t-mac and stevie franchise had performances in that same 2000 dunk contest that would have won every other year so maybe i'm one of them in this discussion or maybe i'm that weird guy chris anderson with the yeah i'm probably that weird guy you remember that guy who's who is the biggest letdown in slam dunk history? In other words, a guy who could dunk, great player, people like,

just really shit the bed in the slam dunk contest. Oh, I think Sean Kemp. He was a finalist like four times. But that was back when you'd get one replacement dunk. So if you missed in a key moment, you were done. That's it. It wasn't like the – remember when the slam dunk contest got shitty again around 08, 09? Yeah. moment you were done that's it it wasn't like the remember when the slam dunk contest got shitty again around oh eight oh nine yeah remember uh andrea gadala and nate robinson got like 40 chances

to do a dunk and by that point you know it's like hey looks good in the highlight it took you 37 times to bounce it off the top of the backboard though um look i'm a i'm a slam dunk contest historian i'm very passionate about it they've ruined that contest many times uh sean kemp came up empty a lot and i think the great one was LeBron James never, never doing one because he didn't think he had a creative enough arsenal. Although if you go back to his McDonald's all American contest win, he didn't have flair, but he jumped like off the ceiling. He was, you know, he's a freak. So I think he could have won as well, but you know, it stopped being cool for stars to enter that because they didn't want to take the L. It's really the

modern day issue. You know, back in the day, I mean, Dominic Wilkins was doing it into his 30s because it was about, you know, respect and no one wants to be looked at as a dunker anymore. Where are you on Zach Levine as a dunker? Fantastic. Fantastic dunker.

He's actually become a complete player, too. I'm getting back into the NBA scene, playing video games with my games with my kids i'm deep in on xbox one now luke and i actually was was wondering if you wanted to have a discussion about uh mortal combat xl because i play the crap out of that game yeah it's a i didn't oversell that game it is fantastic who are your characters that you play with that's what i wanted to ask you yeah so look i'm an old school johnny cage guy back from sega genesis in the arcade he sucks at roller magic um i do like johnny cage now because look he's kind of got the mma vibe he'll break bones when he goes for the big finish and stuff but i found that you know my kids are pretty good like i'm already kind of

becoming the old guy with a slower trigger finger now and when i use this fella called kwan chi do you know this devil looking fellow he looks like the inquisitor who is the bad guy in star wars rebels he's got a white head with some red paint on it that guy can create like holes in the ground and throw you in it he is a bad mother effer that's the only guy i use that i can compete against my kids with who's your guy i used to be back in the day a baraka guy i'm not a baraka guy anymore my guy right now in this game i found i had a lot of success with raiden who i know is the old school one and among the new school choices because i tried out everybody

surprisingly spawn i get a lot of fun and yeah spawn spawn has a surprising amount of flexibility and use that is so those are my two go-to spawn and raiden uh one of my sons is really good he can use all the the mid-sized guys and destroy me but i've got a son who's a masher he's like the uh john lineker of more of mortal combat and he uses that dude ferritory you know the big fat guy who has the little guy on top on his back yeah you know that guy yeah and he corners that dude ferretor you know the big fat guy who has the little guy on top on his back yeah that guy yeah and he corners me against the wall and i i dude i can't do anything against it it pisses me the hell off i have to throw the controller at the screen but uh i'm in on this did you play with the terminator or joker yet no i didn't get there yet i didn't get jason vorhees unlocked yet or anything like that uh do you use that weird reptile looking guy that guy's

real good uh i've played with everyone i don't know you use that weird reptile-looking guy? That guy's real good. I've played with everyone. I think it is reptile. I don't think I've used him routinely. I also am a bit of a... Not Liu Kang. Kung Lao. I like Kung Lao a little bit as well. I like some of the older ones that have just sort of

stood the test of time. It's like a tuxedo, BC. You don't have to really change up a tuxedo.'s just kind of classic you know i think ken she might be pound for pound the best guy there hardest guy to beat um he's mid-sized he's got the blindfold over his eyes he's got the sword he's got the combination of speed and power wow we are nerdy having this discussion but i'm in on it okay i'm in all right did you figure out if did any of our listeners email you or message you about whether we could play each other me on the pc you on the xbox i i i've i've crossed past the age where i can figure that out without you know without uh

i would like to hopefully we can okay i can play on the xbox live let's do it please i don't know can those can those paths cross can we get it on the show luke can i play you on this show i don't think so. Maybe we'll do an edition of MK Edibles, and we'll play each other in a championship round, all right? Very good. By the way, I'm told that we have some viewer art. What do we have, VC?

Hey, look, MK Extra is, look, it's a little bit bare bones. We're giving you a bonus episode this week because UFC is going all out. But we're not going to have have you seen this shit, but we'll have a special edition of H-Y-T-Y-S with some recently expert level fan art that has been sent to us. You may have seen a couple of them retweeted out there. I just wanted to shout out these jokers out because we have some of the most talented people in our stable of weird watchers and listeners. So, Jay, Gaffaff if you could begin this

process of us doing that i mean look this might be the so good this this might be the greatest of all time can you read that handle i cannot can you jay can you read that handle it's dominic it's dominic something i forget his last name i made this my wallpaper on my computer. I'm sorry, Jay. We're live here, Jay. Just to let you know. Okay, that's great. That's great. Well, hey, Dominic, that might be the best.

I mean, that's Simpsons. You got me with the Dedrick Tatum, Mike Tyson t-shirt right there. So good. A little bit of grip to grip. The morning... No, what do you have? The Cannibal Corpse shirt on. Cannibal Corpse, yep.

All right, I got that guy's name. One more second here. Let's give him the love. At Dominic Valando, V-E-L-A-N-D-O on Instagram, so shout out to that. Hey, let's go to the next one here. You may have seen this. This also in the discussion for best we've seen. It could be a t-shirt at this point.

This is at our guy, right? The Greek god of war and thunder at web scream here our buddy christopheros that's uh that's about as good as it gets luke have you seen that show have you seen that dude that is i showed that to my wife and she was blown away she's like it took her a second she had to look at my hands with the beer bottle to realize it wasn't me because that is done she's like did you well here was she asked she's like did you guys do a a shoot like this i said no we have a listener in italy who made it can you believe that yeah that that's that is uh well done there from the graphic designer web

screen uh visit his ish and uh check out this is probably my favorite, though, the next one, from a fellow named Blaze MMA at 420. Be respectful. He's getting all Tiger King on us. And as he tweeted, look at submissive producer Jay coming in crotch high on you there, Luke. Well, I got to tell you, who has better teeth? Joe? No, who was the guy there who was kneeling? What was his name in the show?

I forget his name. He had like six teeth, and they were all just lounging in his mouth. Yeah, John something, right? There was Travis Maldonado who died. There was John something. Then there was that new husband who was a little sketchy too. Yeah, how about this guy? Who has a better smile?

Toothless, meth-infused Joe exotic husband or jay honestly i'm gonna go meth infused husband look if i didn't know any better you know i haven't seen jay with his shirt off but i i could see him looking exactly like that right kneeling you know what are you kneeling bob or is that what you do you know funnily enough both this guy and jay live in a place with an AC unit in the window. Dude, I live with an AC unit in the window. Where are we going? I know. In my office.

My wife has one, too. I just like putting Jay on Megatilt for it. That's it. Sorry, we all can't afford Central Air down there in D.C., Luke. Okay? Thank you very much. Hey, I just got bored. So here's the deal.

You tweeted out the Breaking the breaking bad one that web scream created or you put it on instagram and you used a uh from the wire quote so web scream came back with a second helping luke my favorite season two of the wire down by the dock so what was the name of the family oh god i think you you're nico i'm ziggy right there on the right yes that's right i forget the name by the way this is uh also season two gets a shout out from re-up gang on scenario 2008 and uh if the uh if the album flop till the casket drop we the wire season two bitches back to the docks that's what it's from in my uh instagram post fantastic so here's the deal on the wire we love that show i think it's the greatest show of all time and season two

is their best season and i know it's trendy to one shit on season two or then realize you were wrong the second watch and be like no season two is actually really good it's the best season dude i'm sorry it is i like season four with the school okay i love season three the ending of the uh of the uh avon in uh stringer bell story but uh yeah season two is fantastic and that's you and i right there luke you know i'm always you know eventually we'll both die and lose our jobs but uh hopefully won't be my fault let's move on here um this is from at rodriguez works on instagram works with a z so luke he this is his tribute to me can i tell you a little bit about this character right here yeah please that's a that's a metal

arm and leg i'm written i'm drawn like a 90s comic star i have a machine gun samurai sword and rocket launcher a shitty 90s print trench coat with xl plated XL pleated jorts and Grant Hills filas with that awkward blue line that goes all the way around. And if you notice, the left hand of this gentleman is grip to grip through the zipper with a weapon in his hand. That's creative right there. That's well done. That's pretty good.

That's pretty good. This guy must be our age. Yes. Yes. Shout out to that. And our final one comes in from at Jonah Jape on Instagram. You know, sadly enough here, Luke, why does it look so natural, my face on Fat Joe's body? Why?

Yeah, who am I? Who did I take? Is that the other dude? Are you doing the rockaway there oh is this terror squad is that who that's supposed to be you're fat joe and i'm like one of those maybe it's a alexander hamilton luke i'm sorry i'm not i'm not up on this but i i do appreciate the art and i do appreciate the uh morning combat shirt on the uh on me in the black there. So shout out to all of our people. We appreciate you. We got some big ideas for merch, by the way,

for round two of merch. So I don't know if any of these can make it, Luke. Or maybe we can recreate that cover of you and I with the black thing across our eyes. Remember that one? Oh, yeah. What was the movie? Parasite. Yes, yes. Sorry sorry i have no memory today i stayed up late last night sorry i'll be better next time i see that i see that you know usually you always

come in hashtag fired up today you came in hashtag a little farty a little yeah a little sad i mistimed my caffeine intake i should have considered uh yeah all right well uh luke you got anything else i mean you know i know you got another, you know, I can't go too long with you, but you got anything else? No, I mean, I do have the dissected episode. I have to get it over to the folks at Malka today. So it'll probably either be out today or tomorrow morning. I keep getting delayed on it. But BC, I have to tell you, that is the hardest one I've ever had to do. Folks always ask me whose game is hard to break down. And, you know, any kind of UFC fighter is going to have a degree of complexity to it. Before it was Israel Adesanya, before that it was Max. The new one for me is Volkanovski. Jesus Christ, dude. It is very hard there.

It took a while. It took a while, man. I thought I would have this done by Sunday. And then every time I watched, I'm like, Oh, right. He's doing this. And then I would watch again. would watch again I'd be like fuck how did I not see that and then again and again and again and again to the point where I like now a little scared to put it out because I'm like am I gonna miss something major that he has uh done I don't know I don't know and then Max also BC switched up his game a little bit too so I had to unravel all of that shit because it wasn't like if you go from max from the first aldo fight to the second aldo fight there were changes but not not crazy huge changes uh some important ones but not like bah dude between the first and second volkanovski fight it's you know it was hard dude it was really difficult nobody does it like professor salt and pepper so i hope

everybody checks out mk dissected. Luke, MMA Man Crush Monday. Who's got it firmer right now, me with Joanna or you with Eugene Barrowman? I get made fun of more for my affection for city kickboxing, so it has to be me, right? I mean, because here's the thing. Who outside of New Zealand likes city kickboxing more than me right here my point being is lots of you nerds like joanna uh you know you're not alone i feel like i'm a little bit of a north american unicorn over here right i am alone when i look at the instagram account but yeah yeah i'm with you on that all right that's fair uh all right with that in mind as

bc mentioned they made some phot Photoshopps of us wearing MK merch. You can get your own. You can just go to store.show. That's S-H-O dot com. Tons of Morning Combat merch over there. We got a whole bunch of stuff coming, too, by the way. But the first line of it is there. Give the video a thumbs up.

Subscribe. We are back Monday, BC. I hear and can confirm that it's very comfortable, Luke. You know who was raving about that? You know our mutual friend Chad Dukes, a radio star in the DC area? His producer, man, he's loving our merch, okay? Loving it. So shout out to those fellas down there.

Yeah, shout out to the guys on the fan down there. Yeah, Brock Leisner. I used to work at the fan. Brock Leisner's a good dude. Okay, and then we're back on Monday. BC, I don't want to say anything. I don't want to spoil it. I'm just going to say I don't know exactly what's going good dude. Okay, and then we're back on Monday. BC, I don't want to say anything. I don't want to spoil it. I'm just going to say I don't know exactly what's going to happen on Saturday,

but I do know that Monday's morning combat is going to be huge. Big. Big. It's going to be big. Not a show you want to miss. Just take our word for it. That's all we're going to say. Like Shaq, you know, after hours, right?

Like little Shaq. Sorry. After hours. It's going to be big. be big it's going to be very big okay you may run out of the room uh screaming yeah screaming uh all right so for Brian Campbell I'm Luke Thomas oh by the way don't forget we are on social media you can go to the Morning Combat YouTube channel we have a Morning Combat Instagram just Morning Combat with a K you can follow both of us on twitter as well as instagram and beyond that so until next time appreciate y'all watching for mulca for showtime for brian campbell i'm luke thomas may all of your gains be loyal We'll be right back.