MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - UFC in 2020, Tony Ferguson, Yoel Romero, Paul Brothers | Luke Thomas' Live Chat, ep. 58

Episode Date: December 17, 2020

Today on the podcast, we'll discuss Tony Ferguson's future after losing to Charles Oliveira at UFC 256, the UFC's overall run in 2020, Yoel Romero and Anthony 'Rumble' Johnson moving to Bellator, Logan and Jake Paul being annoying, Canelo Alvarez vs. Callum Smith, Jon Jones vs. Israel Adesanya in 2021, referee Jason Herzog, Gilbert Burns vs. Kamaru Usman, UFC roster cuts and more. --------------------------------- 'Morning Kombat’ is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Bullhorn and wherever else you listen to podcasts.    For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit: store.sho.com   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat  To hear more from the CBS Sports Podcast Network, visit https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

you hear that paid and done that's the sound of bills being paid on time but with the bimo eclipse rise visa card paying your bills could sound like this yes earn rewards for paying your bill in full and on time each month rise to rewards with the bimo Eclipse Rise Visa Card. Terms and conditions apply. You know, people complain that I have a moment before the video starts where I'm looking around aimlessly, but I'm not looking around aimlessly. I'm actually looking at the feed telling me when it's live. It actually goes live before it tells me it's live, and that's that sort of awkward part where I'm probably picking my nose or, you know, doing something else perverse in society. tells me it's live and that's that sort of awkward part where I'm probably picking my nose or you

know doing something else uh perverse in society but there's nothing I can do about that because I can't really go until it says it's time to go uh hi everyone my name is Luke Thomas this is episode 58 of in fact the Luke Thomas live chat a lot to get to today very excited about everything uh we'll get to let's, the Canelo fight. We still have some UFC 256 leftovers. We've got everything in between. So if you have a question, you of course should have got it in already. And I'll get to the ones that you did on the community tab at youtube.com slash morning combat. And if you want to watch, that'd be great. And give some feedback, that'd be great too.

Alright, without further ado, let's get this party started, shall we? Alright. Hi everybody. Before we go any further, please subscribe to the video, or I should say thumbs up and subscribe to the video. Do all that fun stuff. Bit of a programming note. I think this will probably go on my personal channel, but I may put it on Morning Combat. We'll see. I got a copy, or I shouldn't say a copy but a I got a delivery now I had to pay for these no one

no one gave it to me but I've got some of the Dustin Poirier hot sauce this is from Heatonist Heaton

ist these are the folks who are involved with the show well I should say you ever seen those hot sauces that are on the show? What do you call it?

Hot Ones? You can go to heatonist.com, I believe, and you can get them all there. I'm not exactly sure what the entire relationship is between Hot Ones and Heatonist. But if you're interested in, like, I'm a hot sauce enthusiast. So people are like, oh, I have Frank's, and I put it in my fridge. It's like, well, Frank's is fine if you just need extra salt. But it's not really hot sauce enthusiast. People are like, oh, I have Frank's and I put it in my fridge. It's like, well, Frank's is fine if you just need extra salt, but it's not really hot sauce. And you don't need to refrigerate salt.

You can leave that elsewhere. You do not need to put that in your fridge. You can put milk in your fridge. You can put yogurt in your fridge. You can put meats in your fridge. Hot sauce does not belong in your fridge. Only savages and morons do that. Okay. So anyway, but if you're into like real stuff, like a heat and this sells a, um, what is it? A, it is a, it's like ghost pepper and blueberry jam hot sauce, which is, I mean, absolutely delectable.

There's the Los Calientes, which has been featured on the show before. I've not had this. I'm going to do a full review for it. So I'm pretty excited. I mean, I don't know exactly what the upside is financially for Dustin, but I can say he partnered with a good group. So that should be a lot of fun. And then, of course, we have a show tomorrow. Brian and I will be back doing a regular MK. Yeah? All right. Let's get this going, shall

we? As you can see, I got a fresh haircut. Feeling pretty good. Got my glasses fixed. I was using the other ones too much. Let's do this thing. All right. Okay. First question. Producer, director, musician, landing, spinning back kicks on ranked UFC fighters, which I don't believe. Jay, the Renaissance man, Aaron, has quite the resume. What are your real thoughts on Jay? Does he have any other hidden talents? He hasn't already aired publicly. Let me tell you something. If Jay thought he had a talent in something, he would let you know. He is not too shy about the idea that he's got a bunch of talents in the world. I mean, he's actually probably the best producer on the show, which is why we like to give

him a lot of crap because he had a lot of at all. And I do too. A lot of previously failed endeavors and we like to give him shit for it. But of all the producers on the show, we actually trust him the most, but because we trust him the most and he's obviously been a fame whore, we like to kill him for it. So we kill him on the air. I always love when people are like, you guys are so mean.

It's like, do y'all, I mean, I look at the numbers on the Morning Combat channel. The numbers tell us a pretty clear story. The overwhelming majority of the audience, upwards of 90%, is dudes. I have been in the company of, you know, I mean, I've had my own friendships. I've been around other groups who, you know, they have their own social circles. You know, I've known a lot of different human males throughout the course of my life. What group of guys doesn't give each other a ton of shit for things? And you can probably be like, oh, women do it too. Okay, fine. I mean, I'm not saying it's only a guy thing. I'm just trying to tell you, your guy friends don't give you shit. I always see

people like, oh, it's so mean, man. Fuck y'all. You guys are soft, soft, super soft. Uh, if your friends don't, like if something good happens to you and your friends don't insult you for it your friends are worthless you know my friends whenever they met my she's not my wife when she was my girlfriend they're like you dumb fucking gorilla there's no way you deserve this blah blah blah blah like they couldn't have been more insulting and they were nice on my wedding day and then they were shitty the day after you know this whole thing about like you know you must be really like angry at jay no jay's actually the best producer but because he has you know his own indiscretions which is common in the human experience and also because you know

we like him we're gonna fuck him up on air this That's just how it's going to go. So that's why me and BC give each other shit. It's like, you guys expect us to do a show where we just get along? What's the fun in that? Dana revealed to TSN yesterday that there's going to be a backup for Poirier-McGregor. He indicated it could be Gaethje Chandler. How likely do you think this is? Well, do I think they're going to make Gaethje Chandler?

I mean, I don't see how they don't. About where they put it is sort of your complicating factor. They've been having Chandler on the bench and their reasoning is he just did the weight cut as a backup for Habib Gaethje, which makes this questionable. Fly them to the island ASAP. Yeah, I would agree with the last part. Yeah, I mean, who else could it be in terms of having a pair of elite-ready lightweights who would even be close to this kind of a deserving position? You could have said Oliveira versus somebody if this fight with Ferguson had taken place a month or two ago. But otherwise, you're going to be hard-pressed. Plus, dude, Gaethje versus Chandler, whether it is the backup to that fight or any other fight,

I mean, that has absolute chaos written all over it. So I know, or I shouldn't say I know, I have strong reason to believe that they're going to make that fight no matter what. And when you just think about what would be a suitable backup where you could plug in various fighters into various situations if the situation called for it, there's a fairly narrow range of options at this point. Go-to Christmas songs. What a great question.

Well, it's not really appropriate in 2020, but I am partial to Baby It's Cold Outside. You like what you like. You grow up with fucked up songs, they just become part of your life. So what are you going to do? Let's see. What are some other ones? Noel. Noel.

Noel. Noel. Born is the King of Israel. That one. I like that one a lot. Deck the Halls. I'm kind of partial to. Even though it's a goofy ass song to sing There's some other ones

Rockin' Around Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree I like that one a lot I'm trying to think man I mean I'm not too picky on them The only one I'm like It's tradition and you're supposed to like it

But I think it's stupid Is like You know Four calling birds Three diarr diarrhea is two tip to tips and a partridge in a pair. And then you have to go, it's like 99, nine, it's like 99 bottles of beer on the wall. It's like, ah, at 77, we get it motherfucker. Like you can let it ride, you know, you know, 12 calling Mitch's or whatever it is. You know, six dudes are donking, fucking four bath salts eating the losers or whatever the fuck it is. I'm less partial to that.

Five golden rings. All right. At what age would you let your child start lifting weights? Well, that's a good question I would say It depends what you Okay, to my point To my point about friends giving each other shit This is literally

This is literally This is a picture my friend just sent me and this is the caption. Ready? He goes, I like your latest promo shot. This is the picture. He's always sending me like

a video of a gorilla walking, he'll be like, there'll be like a, like a video of like a gorilla walking. And he'll be like, dude, congratulations on reaching your nearest mile or your latest milestone. This is what I'm always like, dude,

do your friends not do this to each other? I know they do. I've seen groups of dudes interact when they're friendly with each other. And they say nasty, nasty things. So I'm always like people like that. So me and black man, fuck you

toughen up a little bit jesus christ this is what you're supposed if you are straight or gay if you are a guy and you have another guy friend man you're supposed to slash his tires you're supposed to put the whoopee cushion in there you're supposed to prank call his girlfriend and tell him that she's dumped you're supposed to do all these terrible things. And you're thinking I'm making it up about the caption. Let me see if I can cover it without like, you know, revealing his name and everything. Look at that. Hold on.

See if I can do it this way. Look at the caption. I'm not making it up. It's real. It's real. That just came in as I'm doing the chat. For no reason. I didn't even do anything.

I didn't even do anything. So I'm telling you, man. So I'm telling you. Everyone, oh, you're just so mean. Get a life, wimp. All right. At what age would you let your child start lifting weights? So I follow, you guys follow squat university, which is an Instagram account and a YouTube account.

If you're talking about lifting weights where it's like, yeah, we're going to go to the gym. And then today we're going to have a pull session. So we'll do deadlifts. We'll do, you know, we'll do a Pendlay Rose. We'll do upright Rose, you know, we'll do, um, shrugs. We'll do whatever, you know, pull downs, whatever. That would probably be a while before I would let someone do that. But there are ways in which you could incorporate, um, lifting movements with very, very, very light loads, you know, 20 pounds or less. Um, and I've seen them do it starting at age six or seven. So under the watchful eye of an expert with a minimalist load, where really you're not trying to lift weights,

you're just trying to learn motor coordination, certain athletic patterns, because if you guys don't know this, I've said it before, you can train yourself to deadlift, you can train yourself to bench, and you can train yourself to squat, which isn't to say you wouldn't benefit from a coach, but you know, they're reasonably self-learnable. You know, the snatch and the clean and jerk are extremely technical movements, and I don't know how you could do that, much less compete without an experienced coach really walking you through it. It's very, very difficult. Under that kind of a situation they could be probably pretty young but you're talking about heavy loads of lifting

it would be a while you know i didn't start lifting weights until i was maybe 15 or 16 something like that um i have a daughter so I don't know how interested in weightlifting she would be, but if she is, and I hope that she is, under watchful expert guidance of very minimalist loads, she could probably start pretty early. But anything more than that, she's going to have to be a teenager and then some. All right. Does an introduction fight at flyweight for Cody Nolove make sense before a title shot? Yes, except in MMA with its unpredictability, you are introducing a level of risk that could derail your plans in a much more significant way than it could if it was boxing.

So yes, for all the reasons you might imagine it'd be beneficial, you could do that. But if the goal is just to get him there, see if he can do it or if he can't, cut out the middleman, and really in MMA, especially with weight cuts like this, there really is, I mean, you know, I can kind of understand why you might want to go in that direction,

then just go straight to it. Not that it's deserving, but if that's really the direction you're going to go, then just go. Is a. Not that it's deserving, but if that's really the direction you're going to go, then just go. Is a point deduction in a UFC bout always going to rely on subjectivity to the referee? Well, that's a great question. Really smart question,

because that is the crux of the issue. So this person writes, in the Figueredo versus Moreno fight, the ref deducted a point, that would be Jason Herzog, from Figueredo for the low blow because it appeared to have enough of a negative impact on Moreno to merit a point deduction, regardless of intentionality. That's right. This decision seemed to be based mostly on Moreno's physical reaction after the low blow happened.

However, each fighter wears and reacts to pain differently. Also true. I.e., there is no way to objectively know that Moreno's low blow affected him more negatively than any other low blow that previously happened in a fight where no point was deducted. Does this open the door for fighters to exaggerate pain after a low blow, knowing it will increase the likelihood of a point deduction? Sure, as it seems the only way to measure how much of a low blow affects a fighter's performance is based on his reaction afterwards. I mean, here's how the system works.

This already has happened. You've already seen something. I may not even have been able to tell where a fighter got hit. And maybe he even got hit squarely in the bad place. And it hurt, but not as much as he was selling it. And then he got extra time for it. Or maybe even the other person got a point deduction. Like, have you seen the equivalent of what they do in the NBA

where anytime they get a foul, they flail their hands and, you know, they just can't believe it. I was watching Real Madrid yesterday. Who did they play yesterday? They played Athletic Club, Athletic Bilbao. And you had Vinicius who, you know, kind of sucks, but we're going to see what happens with him. He is dribbling the ball and he is trying to come inside towards the goal.

He's inside the box at that point, and one of the athletic players sticks his foot out, doesn't even make contact with him, and Vinicius flails, like jumps in the air, and acts like he was tripped as he was just dribbling the ball straight. Now, he should have gotten a fucking penalty for it. It was, I mean, absolute, undoubted, total, not merely exaggeration. He just invented it out of nothing. The reason why you might see that more in those cultures is, one, I think the whiting sport communities that watch

them are a little bit more accustomed to it. Two, it's harder to police. I mean, now that you have video cameras, it's a little bit easier to police, but the video camera use is somewhat limited, and the referees can be far enough away where it can be kind of hard to tell, even if you have multiple referees. And then by the way, the more you can sell it and the better at it, I mean, that was a pretty shitty attempt at it, but the more you can do it, the more you're going to get away with it. So the answer is yes, you have all the incentives in the world to exaggerate. Some of the things that limit that are, one, it's going to take some skill to do it and most are not going to be very good at it. Two, sometimes maybe you can't quite know for certain, but you guys have seen certain ones that just landed really hard.

There's probably some reason to believe that those might hurt worse than other ones. But the other one is just more important. It's like these guys don't make a lot to begin with. They need to win to get maximum amounts of money, which, of course, sometimes exaggerating the effect of an injury can actually boost your chances of getting that. There was a question about whether or not Diego Sanchez did that against Michel Pereira, but the point is this.

A lot of fighters just have this code of honor where they just wouldn't allow themselves to do that, or at least not do it very much. That's not a rule that prevents it. That is a norm that prevents it. And eventually what I think you're going to have is just the erosion of those norms. Somebody is going to do something where they get really benefited by just outright cheap,

you know, I won't say cheating, but, um, although maybe it's that too, but let's call it working the system. And then other people are going to copy it. Right now there's a bit of a taboo on doing it,

and that taboo kind of limits how much you see it, but I don't know how long that's going to last because there is every incentive in the world to do exactly what you're talking about. But here's the one key about this that you guys should understand, and this is why Nevada keeps making changes that are technically better than the last system that they had, but never exactly what we need. So let me give you an example.

Before it was, okay, the referee can stop this at any point that they want. That's better than if you stop the fight and use instant replay, the bout's automatically over and you're using it just to review whether or not there was a foul in the ending that was intentional or not or something like that, right? And then they really expanded use to like, you can stop whenever you want and then the fight could resume afterwards, okay? And then they even added another one where there'd be another referee using the replay technology as a means of assisting the, call them the B referee, as assisting the A referee.

Okay, that sounds a lot better. But the problem is if a foul happens and the A referee just Okay, that sounds a lot better, but the problem is if a foul happens and the A referee just decides he doesn't need the B's referee's help, what good is the rule? And that's exactly what you have been seeing over and over and over again. What they actually need is that you need what they have more in other sports. If you are going to have a team of officiants, meaning more than one, in many cases three, four, depending on the sport,

then one is the dominant referee, but he's not the sole referee. And the other referees not only have an ability to make a call, but then have this ability to have a sort of a congregation at times to work out other issues. What I mean to say is that B referee, the one with the referee tech, the replay technology, they should be empowered to enter the cage in between rounds or whenever, how you want to work out the rules.

But the point I'm trying to make is to the extent that they are useful only insofar as the A referee deems them useful, they're not all that useful. They can only be useful to the extent that they have clearly identified some kind of wrong that needs to be righted, and they have the power, however you wish to define that, to then assert that over the fight. It would have to be in conjunction with the A referee, and maybe you have a rule where

the A referee can and should overrule him if they feel uh or her that that's not a thing that they agree with okay fine but they have to have the ability to get their attention you know if if uh all of these problems are only problems if i open door number one i'm not going to open door number one i'm just going to keep them all closed and go about my day. So I think that's how the other referees see it. Oh, I don't need a replay. I know what I saw. But you don't know what you saw. That's the whole point.

You think you know what you saw, but you don't. You're human. How could you? So that's really what it comes down to for me. This isn't the first time Jacare was finished by an opponent who was on bottom. Yes, but this is very different. And you're right. Musashi Kedom with an upkick in Dream in 2008.

Believe me, I was covering the sport then. I'm totally aware. After what Holland did this past week, is it possible Jacare is so comfortable on the ground that he leaves himself open and commits costly errors as a result? Dude, this is a major, major, major, major difference between what happened on Saturday and what happened in 2008. KO upkicks are not exactly common, but they're not exactly rare either.

That is a tremendously hard shot. That is the heel of someone's foot being driven across, in the case of Jacare, across his jaw, and it knocked him out so that when he fell down, he basically collapsed on top of Mousasi. That's a very, very hard strike, and one that we've seen others replicate over time. Now, I guess maybe Holland has opened the door

to other forms of striking where positions that you didn't think were conducive to effective striking will be reconsidered because of his success. I think that's certainly a thing we have to think about. At the same time, how many times have you seen a guy knocked out the way that Jacare was knocked out? Yes, he's been knocked out on top, but A, from a harder strike, and one that you've seen much more at scale.

That punch, I'm sure it was hard, but it's not going to be as hard as someone's driving up kick with their heel. And especially from the initial position that he had it, where he wasn't even, there were two strikes that basically stunned him. One that partially stopped him, and one that really stunned him. And the one that really stunned him was, he had done sort of a halfway technical get up. But it was one before that where he was not in a position

to deliver a tremendous amount of power. Now I don't think Jacare was expecting it, and I do think Kevin Holland hits hard. But even if you hit hard in a position to deliver a tremendous amount of power. Now, I don't think Jacare was expecting it, and I do think Kevin Holland hits hard, but even if you hit hard in a position where you're not able to really bring the full bearing of your weight on it, how hard could it really be? I'm sure hard, but, you know, I think even he would tell you that's not even close to his hardest punch. So that, to me, makes it categorically different.

It looks similar. Wow. He gets finished while being on top. Okay, fine. But it's not the same. You know, I don't think I've ever seen someone finished like that. Uh, and I, you know, I'm not Kaposa or Gravaca hit man, but I watch a shitload of MMA and that is exponentially rare. Getting up kicked is rare, but not exponentially Would Tony have been stopped by Charles If the arm bar happened earlier in the round What would the outcome have been I doubt Tony would have ever tapped

But do you think Charles would have broken his arm And caused the ref to stop the fight Yes that to me is what would have happened So you can see Oliveira achieves mount And I went through it on my last episode of technical difficulties. You can see that Oliveira takes Mount and then basically throws an elbow. And if you watch my explanation, you'll see, I can't tell if he throws the elbow as a decoy to

help him chair sit closer to the back of Tony's head so that he can sit for the arm bar without much more movement because it places him exactly where he needs to be. Or if there was somehow it was obstructed, it's kind of hard to tell. But in any case, he does in fact move closer. He kind of chair sits halfway, puts his knee behind the back of the head of Tony. So when he wants to swing for the arm bar, he doesn't have to swing from Tony's hips. He's now behind the head. So he has to do as a corkscrew. It's very, very, uh, economical motion. And then he does it, but he did it towards the end of a round so that if it failed, how bad could the consequences be for it failing? Not too bad, right? That's sort of the thinking there. Well, what would he have

done if it had been sooner? My thought is, um, you know, I watched Tim Sylvia versus Frank Miralive, and that was different because when Sylvia got his arm broken, it was broken here in the middle of the forearm. Not here, not here, but here in the middle of the forearm, like this space. And you can see the bone. It doesn't come through the skin, but you can see it. How do I explain it? It's like if this is the skin of a shirt, or this is the skin, right? So I got a beer shirt here. This is the skin, but you can see it. How do I explain it? It's like, if this is the skin of a shirt or this is the skin, right? So I got a beer shirt here. This is the skin. Do you see the arm bar? And then you see, uh, Sylvia's bones go like this, like they punch through, not through, but

they push on the skin and you can see referee Herb Dean, see it. And you can see him freak out and intervene. I mean mean this is sort of what happened between Ronda and um Misha Tate right where the arm she may have tapped or something but the it was at least one or one either the first or second time I can't remember where the arm is so badly mangled the referee just intervenes when he's when he tucked it behind the head like that behind the arm excuse me that that there was only one way that was going to go. He had tight control over Tony's face. He had tight control of the arm.

I tend to think it would have kept going and the referee would have intervened. I have a hard time believing he would have survived. I also have a hard time believing that Tony would have tapped. So, yeah, if the referee sees that it has bent to all kinds of a fucked up degree and he thinks it's, you know, medically this is a time to intervene, he can. And I think that's probably what would have happened. Am I wrong in thinking the UFC's welterweight division is overrated? Probably.

The top three made their names off of wins over Woodley, Maya, and RDA, and to a certain extent, Gunnar Nelson. To steal a Luke-ism, if I may, in my opinion, and I don't suggest that this should be your opinion, just to be myself, what I would say is that these wins have not aged well. Um, no, I'm, I'm, I would need you to flesh out this question a little bit more. I don't quite, I mean, I sort of know what you're getting at, but there's missing pieces of the argument to make. So I'm not exactly sure how to answer it. I don't think that what you have asked me in the way that you've asked it is sufficient for me to conclude that 170 is overrated.

Hi, Luke. Oliveira dominated Tony Ferguson. People are saying that he is Habib's toughest test and could beat him. But the same are saying that he is Habib's toughest test And could beat him But the same thing was said before every Habib opponent That the fight is dominated by Habib Yes, that is true, mostly I think all the top five lightweights Could each beat each other On any given day, but Habib dominates them all

I don't think that's crazy I said it before man, it was so weird The one thing I can say about Habib And who did I say this to? I think I even said it to, man. It was so weird, right? The one thing I can say about Habib, and who did I say this to? I think I even said it to Dustin when I interviewed him, which is, man, can I tell you how many times I've done tape study on his opponents? They're like, okay, here's how his opponents over the course of their careers have handled certain situations, being pressed against the fence, firing underhooks to stand, hitting peek outs or whatever the situation might be. And they do it against their opposition. You're like, okay, well, these guys aren't as good as Habib, but you know, it might tell us something. And then they go up against Habib and it tells

you nothing. It was as if the competition was irrelevant. Uh, and you know, it's not irrelevant. You know, those guys are really good, but at the same time, I mean, Jesus Christ, man, you know, there's a, there's how you performed in these scenarios before Habib, and then there's how you performed in these scenarios with him up in your grill, and they are just two distinct universes, man. I don't think it's an idle question to wonder how a guy like Oliveira, who has just dramatically improved his submission game. Sorry, what am I saying?

His striking game. Who's got a very willing and capable submission game, both on top and underneath. And then more to that, very strategic sense of how to apply it. He doesn't rush anything. I mean, he might jump on a guillotine if he really likes the moment. But he didn't go for the arm bar on Tony until the end of the first. He didn't really get the guillotine bar on Tony until the end of the first. He didn't

really get the guillotine on Kevin Lee until what, the third or fourth round. He took his time. He took his time, you know? And I think that really gives you, gives me more confidence in his abilities to find the opening when the opening is right versus before where he would maybe kind of force it or try it and it didn't work. And he'd be in a bad spot he seemed to be much more just understanding again when to press the gas pedal when to hit the brake pedal still you're right man it's like every time you watch someone especially the late version of habib he had some close rounds and he's had some tough fights but you know the last run that he was on, he was fucking crushing these guys, man. He had gotten significantly better.

From how good he already was, he'd gotten way, way better. So we'll never know, I guess. But I think that it's an interesting thing to consider. But I'll say it again, like I said at the time, I don't really believe in my heart of hearts. There's a lightweight who can beat him. Dan Hooker mentioned the other day that Tony has been losing because he's a crowd fighter and his only losses have been during the pandemic. Well, not his only losses, but his last two anyway. Do you think there's any truth to that? Yes, I absolutely think there's truth to it. I mean,

folks, you heard Justin Gaethje say how much better he performed because there was no crowd. He could stay calm. He didn't get caught up in the energy of the yelling and the screaming. He had a great connection with his coach. His coach was able to talk to him more readily. Some fighters you can clearly see benefit substantially from there being no audience. Right? Well, why can't the opposite be true? If there are fighters who clearly benefit from there being no audience, doesn't it stand to reason that there are going to be fighters who are the exact opposite,

who are lifted by the crowd, who are more at home with the crowd, who may just be more used to it. I mean mean they've been competing that way all their lives and now all of a sudden it's been taken away i i have honestly i i we should probably talk more about that i mean i don't know how influential role and i don't really think that's why he lost these two last two fights i mean i think the reason why he lost the last two probably just has more to do with the current state of the division and where he fits into it. But am I sympathetic to the idea that maybe these would have been closer fights on some level if there was an audience there? Yes.

Totally. I don't know why that's, that should not be controversial. You know, I think some people might say, okay, it's a little bit, you know, give someone a little bit of a, of an extra nod. You know, it's, it's very hard to debate how much. But I do think that, you know, everyone is perfectly willing to say, hey, there are certain, excuse me, certain fighters who just perform so well when there's no crowd. Well, shouldn't the opposite be true? I do think he would feed off the crowd. I do think he gets kind of amped.

I do think he loves being an entertainer and then feeling all those things. I mean, he came out flat. He even said he came out flat. It's the fact that there's no audience cheering him on. I mean, he also won the Ultimate Fighter, so you have to kind of take it with a grain of salt. But that was also much earlier in his career and blah, blah, blah. So, yeah, I believe it. At this stage in his career, I believe that it plays a role.

I do. I do. Next question is pretty similar. Yeah, it's the same question You spoke about Tony not doing the level changes Or rolling his fists before the fight And he said himself it's not the same without the fans, right? I can't imagine the vast difference of fighting In front of thousands of people compared to just a handful

How much do you believe that can affect a fighter like Tony? I mean, here's the thing you have to think about Tony And this was the lesson I sort of came to when you watch. He did get dominated in that fight. I know he doesn't like for people to say that. And I'm sure he disagrees. And that's okay. Everyone's, including him, he's allowed to have his own take on it.

We're allowed to have ours. And that's just the world. But I said this before. To me, I wasn't, and I'm not going to argue that there is a massive downgrade. I don't, I don't think, I mean, that could be true, but I don't know if there's enough evidence to conclude that just yet. The way I look at it is there's clearly something missing from the high point. Now, the reason why there might have dramatic effects with any kind of decline, even a small one is that the division is so deep and so difficult

that if you're not firing on all cylinders in the way that you're supposed to, any drop-off, even a fairly modest one from your peak, is going to have really profound consequences. That's sort of how I look at it. Because if you watch the third round, he gets taken down and he gets mounted. But he tries a Darce. He nearly escapes a couple of times. He didn't get hit too badly in that third round.

Even after really getting his arm broken, he managed to minimize a lot of the more damaging aspects to what Charles Oliveira was doing. Now, he didn't have much of an answer for the control, but he did have a pretty good answer for not taking a beating. And mentally, what does that say about someone after nearly getting your arm completely fucking broken? Dude, that's pretty admirable.

I mean, it wasn't enough to win the round, not even close, but that kind of hustle, that kind of wherewithal, that kind of determination to fight it out, it's like, I'm not ready to throw Tony away, and I don't think you should be either I'm not even saying it's a substantial downgrade I'm saying just a little tick just a difference like that in terms of the outcome

could be like that I mean there's huge amounts of differences because everyone else is making these incremental gains everyone else is you know is hungry for these opportunities and hasn't been there yet. There's just going to be really, any slight opening,

they're going to take advantage of it. And I think he lacked a little something, something, right? It was Tony in many ways, but it wasn't the full El Cucuy experience. And I think that was kind of the difference there was the dr jekyll and mr hyde uh and you got the tamer of the two which is still good enough to not get finished against charles olivera at his very best but uh you wonder like what the full monty would have been in terms of his overall ability so it's you know it's a hard needle to

thread because you're saying oh there's a real difference and there is. So it's a hard needle to thread because you're saying, oh, there's a real difference, and there is, but it's not so pronounced that you can clearly identify, okay, with BJ Penn you can really identify the differences. There you're talking about an exponential drop-off. You're not really talking about that with Tony. When Tony says stuff like, you know, he mentally broke in the first round. Well, not him, but Charles Oliveira. You know, that's a hard statement to defend.

But when he talks about certain other things in that fight that he saw and that he felt, I watched the video. He wasn't altogether wrong, you know. And he was talking about all that Darcy tried to lock up. I should have gone for the bolt cutter and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, there are reasons to believe that whatever he's experiencing, there's no way for me to say that's the same Tony. But it's still very premature to say exactly where it's all headed. I think that's my point.

Oh, well, that means it's the end. He'll never be a contender again. Well, he certainly has his work cut out for him. That much is true. I would be a little bit cautious in saying that we know exactly how bad it is and we know exactly where it's all headed. That much is still quite up in the air. And do I think that a lack of crowds has contributed to it?

Of course. Of course. and do I think that the lack of crowds has contributed to it? of course of course do you think Poirier's improved fundamental boxing ability will have effectively closed the gap between he and McGregor, which was clearly demonstrated in the first fight, all other differentials aside? Also, what benefits do you think the stance-witching could have in Poirier's favor here? Teddy Atlas often refers to the straight right hand of an orthodox fighter as the southpaw killer, but as far as that pertains to McGregor, at least in pure MMA,

he seems almost instinctively tuned to react at counter right hands. Right, well, the right hand is the Southpaw killer, but the left hand is the Orthodox killer. Because whoever has the lead outside foot position in that case, in most cases, is the one who's going to do the most damage. Although, as we saw against Poirier and Hooker, you could have the lead inside foot position and still crack him with the left. So, you know, sometimes you've got to play with the rules a little bit. But to me, there's

no denying that Poirier's offensive boxing, and you'd be like, well, isn't boxing always offensive? No. I mean, there's obviously a ton of boxing that has, you know, defense built into it or certain considerations, footwork, trunk movement, slipping, hand trapping, parrying and rolling and all kinds of stuff. But his offensive boxing has just been massively cleaned up. It's so much better. His shot selection is better. His distance management is better.

His footwork is better. But one of the things that got him in trouble in the first one is going to be something he's going to have to look out for this time too. Not nearly as pronounced, but definitely something that has to go into consideration, which is Conor's accuracy is never better than in the first or second round. I mean, he is so dialed in, and his shot selection and his range management and his willingness and ability to set traps,

and to create scenarios conducive to what he wants to do. He's so good and willing to pull the trigger on them early. I would say that Poirier is much more dangerous a little bit later. Now, if you're totally overmatched, Poirier will run your ass over quickly. But I don't think Conor's really overmatched. It seems like it's a pretty even match in many ways. So to me, I also think that Poirier's defensive boxing has gotten a lot better, but the record shows what the record shows, which is against lead opposition, even when he wins, he gets tagged a little bit early and then overcomes it a little bit late. Or at least does his better work a little bit later.

Sometimes as early as round two, but often to me, this one, if he's able to get past the first two, I think that's what he may, you may see the tide turn, assuming he isn't leading from the, I mean, here's how I kind of think it will go. If Connor's going to win, he's going to win inside two, and if Poirier's going to win, he's going to win inside five. Maybe to a decision, but probably inside three or four. And he could polish off Conor late when Conor, if Conor gases. And then, you know, like, oh, Conor's not going to gas. We saw the second Nate fight, right? But I don't think Conor's gas tank is, I don't think it's as good as Dustin's.

I'll put it that way. Dustin's gas tank is excellent. So we'll have to see. We'll have to see. So of the things that he did well, Poirier, in terms of boxing, he's gotten better at them. In terms of his defense, it's so massively improved. But it is still at a level where an elite guy who can pinpoint, who can set up attacks, who is willing to pull the trigger on some of the things that are a little bit riskier early in the fight, Conor is all those things. So I think that fight will be a very difficult one for Dustin early, but if he gets through it, and I certainly think he is possible and capable of getting through it,

I think it'll get interesting later. That's really what I'm hoping to see, because honestly, if you're a Conor fan, you probably want to see him put away Dustin Early. But if you're a Conor fan, there's got to be a part of you that's like, okay, I almost want to see him not put away Dustin Early. Like have a real tough dogfight for three rounds and then late put him away.

You know, Conor showing a new wrinkle. Because Conor puts most people away pretty early. You know, imagine him putting away this guy in the fourth or fifth. They would tell you that Conor is capable of carrying the power late. He's capable of doing damage late. He's capable of doing really impressive things. Not just early in the fight, which you know he can do, but could do them later. late. He's capable of doing damage late. He's capable of doing really impressive things, not just early in the fight, which you know he can do, but could do them later.

You would want to see that if you're a Conor fan, right? There's got to be a part of you that feels that way. It's not just about winning, but what you show in winning. Okay, good question. You often talk about setting traps and striking. I'm somewhat new to MMA. What exactly does that mean to set a trap? Can you give a quick example? All right, let's stick with Connor. Perfect example. So you stand southpaw, right? Southpaw.

Left hand, right hand, right? So what I'm going to do is I'm going to throw from my left side a lot, potentially straight shots, but I might step to a certain degree, and I might throw hooking shots because I want you to move a certain direction, right? And I'm going to let you move in that direction for enough times where you begin to get comfortable moving away from my left hand. But what I'm really looking to do is as you move away from my left hand, I'm going to intercept you as you are now comfortable moving. And I've not really thrown this before, and I'm going to throw a spinning back kick to the head or to the body, right? So all this time, I've been

trying to land on you with the left, but I'm also planting seeds in your mind to get you to think that lateral movement away from the left hand is the way you're going to beat me. But as you do that, you are walking into another weapon that I've been setting up for you this whole time. That is called setting traps. And there's all kinds of ways you can set it up. You can force movement in a direction. You can back up at times, getting them to come into you and realizing that you are a much better counter puncher than they are. And they're walking into the various traps you could set by virtue of angles, by virtue of movement, by virtue of punch selection, by virtue of whatever. But virtue of movement, by virtue of punch selection, by virtue of whatever.

But it's basically, you can steer people into your punches as you retreat. I mean, there's all kinds of things you can do, but you are basically setting up a scenario where the other person, either because they can't help themselves or because they think they have been incentivized by what they've seen to do it, to quite literally or figuratively walk into scenarios where now they're not expecting a certain weapon because you fooled them into thinking it, and then you unleash that weapon. That is trap setting. And it can be a physical, as I mentioned, retreat. It can be walking someone down. It can be a certain combination that you fake and then you go a different way.

I mean, usually it involves somebody more commonly either walking into somebody or walking away and then into something else that they have set up as an accident. I don't know how intentional it was, but I've seen guys do this where I'll be in this stance. Excuse me, I'll be in this stance. So now I'll have my right hand back. I'll be orthodox. And as you walk this way along the fence line, and I've conditioned you to walk that way along the fence line so you think you're fine there as I pressure into you. You do it one more time, and now you don't walk so fast.

You're walking the same direction, but you've done it now five, six times with no issue. You think you're fine. And then what I'll do is I'll switch stance to close distance, which by the way, I forgot to get to it. One of the ways in which Paul Rie uses stance switching is a way to distance close. But like, for example, like Stipe did on DC or who else did it? I think Adesanya may have done it. Rather than sitting here as you walk along the fence line,

I'm now going to switch, which means I'm going to bring my back leg to the front. As I bring my back leg to the front, I've switched stance, so you're not ready for the read. And now I've gotten closer to you, and now I get her. Oh, Justin Gaethje did it to Edson Barboza. And I just turn and walk into you. To the extent that those were traps they set up versus reads they made in the moment,

you go back and look at the tape, see what you think. But those are plausible scenarios of trap setting. It's getting you to walk into something, again, literally or figuratively, getting you to embrace a scenario that I have tricked you into believing is safe for you to do whatever it is you want to do when in fact you have now walked into a scenario that I have tricked you into believing is safe for you to do whatever it is you want to do, when in fact, you have now walked into a scenario that is very advantageous for me

by switching up the looks and now giving you what I really want to give you versus what you had anticipated or experienced up to that point. And there's any number of ways to do it. Which fighter has impressed you the most in 2020? Someone that exceeded your expectations. For sure, Kevin Holland and Figueredo. Chimaev, I think, would probably be on that list somewhere. Let me look. Ah, fuck. Hang on. It's a good question. Let me look.

Ah, fuck. Hang on. It's a good question. I'm going to say... I mean, Nurmagomedov, really... You know, beating Gaethje the way he did was... And Gaethje beating Ferguson the way he did was. I mean, the whole thing. Who impressed me this year? Zhang Wai-Li impressed me. Ioanni and Jacek impressed me. I mean, that fight they had. I don't know how you can walk around not being impressed by that. Aljamain Sterling impressed me. I didn't know how the Corey Sandhagen fight was going to go.

And that he just bulldozed him was unbelievable. And I'm a big believer in Corey Sandhagen. I still think he's got something for the rest of that division. But that day belongs to Aljamain Sterling. Corey will be the first person to tell you that. That was impressive, man. That was extremely impressive, the way he did that. Who else?

Calvin Cater. I always knew Calvin Cater was good, but you were waiting for him to turn the corner, and he did this year. I feel pretty good about saying that. To watch Dustin Poirier get back on top after suffering losses is always a thing to behold. Gilbert Burns, his maturation as a striker has been amazing.

Obviously Adesanya, what he did to Paulo Costa is just legendary shit. Jan Blachowicz, I don't know how you can name somebody who, you know, did everyone see him coming? You know, I know I didn't, and I know I'm not the only one who didn't. I mean, you always knew he was kind of good, but the way in which he turned out to be this good definitely caught me by surprise. So, shouts to him.

He proved a lot of people wrong, including me. Glover Teixeira's resurgence, you know, you already knew he was good from when he had that first title shot back in 2014 or whatever it was against Jon Jones. Here you are all this time later. It's just, it's amazing. Um, yeah. And of course, uh, big Francis, you already knew he had big power, but just watching him do that has been, has been quite amazing. And then, you know, you can go on the list as well. Um, Amanda Nunez,

just making short work of, of, uh, what's her face. I forget her name now. Um, the math teacher, the Canadian, real nice lady. I forget her name. But you get the idea. So there's been a lot of really impressive people. It's been a good year in that sense. As you know, the UFC recently cut some of their more well-known talents. Big John McCarthy recently stated that Tony Ferguson could be next on the chopping block. Which big-name talents do you think are in jeopardy of being cut?

Yeah, I don't agree that Ferguson is on the chopping block. Now, obviously, I'm saying that in a way where I'm not sitting in on the matchmaker meetings. I am skeptical of that. I mean, for a lot of reasons. One, again, he's still, I think, still good. Now, the other ones who got cut, you know, still have some life left in them as well, but two losses, they're just going to cut you like that? I mean, and you've been an elite fighter for eight years or more? That seems awfully hasty. You're sending someone to Bellator that fans love that,

um, is still willing to take fights. You know, part of the issue with your well was that he was like, no, here, no, there,

no, there again. And they just, and he had missed weight. Like with Tony doesn't miss weight. He doesn't dodge opponents, you know, uh, and he doesn't put on bad fights. He has two tough fights that, you know, could signal something more significant.

But for the moment, like, that seems to be not the right read. The other ones that could be on there, I think JDS could be on there. I think Jacare could be on there. I think, again, what went there I think Jacare could be on there I think again we went over this the other week right it was a combination of age fight readiness

your relationship with matchmakers to what extent you're a popular figure to what extent your best days are in front of you or behind you irrespective of age damage, cost. I mean, all of them sort of fit in there. And it's never you have to have all of them or four of them or six of them or whatever.

It's going to be a feel thing based on the matchmakers. But I don't agree that Tony would be a leading candidate for the UFC to get rid of. That seems super hasty. Now, if he goes up there and, let's say, fights. So let's look at the rankings here. So let's go to lightweight. If he went out there and fought a Paul Felder, who was a good fighter, a great fighter,

but he was sitting at eight, eight in the rankings, and he got demolished the way he did against Gaethje, then you might have a problem. Because itished the way he did against Gaethje, then you might have a problem. Because it's one thing to lose to Gaethje, who's the current number one contender, you know, top three fighter in the world in that weight class. Oliveira has now clearly put himself in a similar kind of position. You're not losing to bums, man. I mean, you're losing to really good fighters.

Really good fighters. And there could be all kinds of circumstances that explain that, or at least somewhat contribute to the downswing. I think age is a thing you have to consider as well, which makes, I think, Big John's thought process there not altogether wrong. And again, we'll have to see. I mean, he could be on the money with it. But there just are not enough boxes you can check for Tony

that would make me think that he's on the chopping block in the way that you would for JDS, who, you know, cannot take punishment. It was, you know, has significant mileage on him, who has lost, you know, four in a row or something. Dude, we're not even close to that level with Tony. Not yet. So, you know, if he has another bad year, well, then we can revisit this conversation. But right now, I would be extremely surprised if Tony was cut. Very, very, very, very surprised. How do I get more interesting? Read books. It's always going to be my answer. And then listen to what the fuck I say,

that'll help, I mean, I'm teasing, but you know, if you're that nubs, another question about Olivera and Habib, I will skip it, best spots to train BJJ in the nation's capital, let's see. There is the Beta Academy, which is where I went for many, many years, which is run by a gentleman by the name of Nakapan, who's a Pedro Sauer black belt. There are a ton of Yamasaki academies here, and they're all run by very legitimate people. You can't go wrong at any of the Yamasaki academies.

You know, depending on your moral calculations here, you can decide whether or not to train with any of the various Team Wood Irvin affiliates I mean, let's be real here there are some complicating factors with that on the other hand, if all you really care about is good Jiu Jitsu you know, you're going to get it there's his spot which I've been to for a long time years and years ago

the guy was like 2004 I mean, I was doing that but that was in Camp Springs, Maryland. You got Crazy 88 out there. You've got... God, what's another good spot that's right outside the nation's... It's in Frederick, Maryland, I think.

It's a little bit further away. Oh, what's that fucking place? I've forgotten some of the names. But there's a ton of schools, man. If you watch what used to be called Operation Octagon, it's now called Cagezilla. They pull from all the local gyms. There's a bunch in Northern Virginia now that didn't used to be there.

But if you're talking about like in the city limits and you're looking at, oh, Ryan Hall. I mean, fucking Ryan Hall teaches in Falls Church. What is that, a 15-minute drive from the city, if that? So you can go train at 50-50 if you want out there. There's a ton of good places. There's a ton of good places. So, you can't go wrong, man. Between Yamasaki Academy, between Ryan Hall's place, if the

Lloyd Irvin thing is up your alley, you know, Nakapan or Beta Academy, any of those. Any of those are, you'll get sick rounds, dude. You'll get really, really good training. Judo, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know specifically what would be the best place to get judo.

Man, fuck judo. Like judo's, here's what I mean. Judo's amazing. It's an amazing martial art. But if you're 25, you know, and you've never trained judo, you've never trained martial arts in particular, but you've never trained judo you've never trained martial arts in particular you've never trained judo i don't think it's wrong to incorporate some judo training into your jiu jitsu but you can skip judo you're gonna get fucked up man the injuries in judo are nothing

to play with why would you want to get that injured if you don't have a real competitive ambition and also competitive potential? Like, people get real hurt doing judo. I don't – I mean, I could never be more fucked. Forget wrestling. Striking obviously depends on what kind of striking you're doing and how serious you are and, you know, how much sparring and blah, blah, blah. But, like, I just knew – I just knew that if I went to judo practice, something terrible was going to happen to me. And every, and you're like, oh, well, if you think that it's going to happen, even when I tried to like control my mind and be like,

okay, it's not going to happen today. It's not going to happen today. Blah, blah, blah. You know, and everything will be fine. And then you would just take, oh, you know, one fucking Osoto Gari that you weren't supposed to, and you land badly on your neck or your fucking hands or, and you know, you have to tape your fingers because they would get all fucking mangled grip fighting and shit. I mean, dude, that's a rough sport. That's a rough sport. And if you don't have any real need to train it, skip it.

That's what I, learn a double leg, which you can do in judo too, the Marote gari, but there's one thing I would do over again, I would just skip it altogether and then just take more wrestling. Which, you know, you'll get injured doing that too, but fuck that. Fuck that. Here's a stupid

question about Jake Paul I'm going to skip. Luke, have you, is there a touching your glasses drinking game yet? There needs to be. These fucking things are slippery, man. How do you guys, because here's what happens. It gets down to here and then I can't quite see right, so I have to kind of just put it back here, but it doesn't take much for it to go down to that level. Do you think the UFC or the commission will ever require that fighters must also weigh in on fight day just to show the exact weight differences when they actually go to the cage there are

commissions that will weigh fighters right before they walk out I think New York has done that before there might be some other ones as well, including California. I know for a fact New York did it. But in terms of like, you have to hit a certain number on fight day for the entire card. I mean, there's going to be situations where there's only so much you could rehydrate by virtue of any kind of complicating factor. But as a rule, oh, we don't want you putting on this much. And we've only got like two weigh-ins. I mean, if you've got like 10 weigh-ins where they're measuring you several weeks out and they can see what your hydration levels are, if there's extra screening like they might do in certain situations in California, you can get away with certain versions of same-day weigh-ins.

But the remaining problem is basically that if you only have two weigh-ins, the one the night before and the one the next day, someone will not properly rehydrate enough to make a certain limit, which will cause potential health complications if they have a really tough fight. They've not fully rehydrated themselves, and that gets to a problem. And you're like, oh, well, they do it in jiu-jitsu. Well, yeah, well, jiu-jitsu is not nearly as rough as MMA. So that doesn't seem like as much of a problem. Who would sell more pay-per-views? This is an interesting question. Mayweather versus a Paul brother or McGregor versus a Paul brother?

I think if McGregor wins his next fight, and especially if it's for the belt, I'll say McGregor. But if he loses his next fight, it might end up being Mayweather. Luke, do you think TV streaming sites like Netflix are a waste of time when trying to be successful in all aspects of life? No. Part of being successful in life is making enough time for recreation. There's good things to watch on Netflix. There's a lot of dumb shit to watch on Netflix too But there's a lot of good things to read

Or excuse me I should say to watch And getting joy and entertainment And relaxation Is part of a journey towards Both self fulfillment and self improvement So no I don't think that at all What's the saying All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

Don't be a dull boy. Uh, let's see. You've mentioned that you were born in India where I was born in new Delhi. I was born in new Delhi. I was actually born on the British embassy of all places. That was the way in which the hospital system worked at the time, is the way it was explained to me, in terms of Americans over there who had pregnant wives. But yes, yes, I was born in New Delhi, India. My sister was born in Beirut, and my brother was born in Paris.

All of us, all over the world. My dad was born in Oklahoma. All of us all over the world. My dad was born in Oklahoma. Let me tell you something. If you need a bail bondsman or a pawn shop, you're in luck in Oklahoma. Uh, actually there's great parts of Oklahoma. I'm teasing. I got mugged in Oklahoma, so don't be fucking getting all self-righteous on me. People from Oklahoma, but Lawton, Oklahoma, I mean, Oklahoma city getting all self-righteous on me, people from Oklahoma. But Lawton, Oklahoma? I mean, Oklahoma City's quite nice. Tulsa's quite nice. But Lawton,

Oklahoma? Woo, buddy! Crazy Steve's Pawn Shop next to Outrageous Bob's Bail Bonds. Like, it's just that for fucking miles. Mm-mm-mm-mm.

A lot of questions about Tony that we've kind of gotten to. This is a good question. Do you think 2020, does 2020 rank anywhere near the top of the list for best years to be a UFC fan? It's a good question. I mean, you would have to define what it would mean to be a UFC fan, and this is why I say that. Does that mean somebody who, because if part of being a UFC fan is like meet and greets and going to shows and blah, blah, blah,

well then obviously this has been a fucking horrific year for that. If it means, you know, just what was available as a television product, it's been an exceptional year. If it means, you know, we need to define a little bit of what it means to be that experience. But let's talk about the last one. The last one, which is, you know, to the extent you were a consumer of the television product, what does this rank in years for UFC? It ranks extremely high.

Extremely high. You've just got to give them credit. They made some mistakes early on, I think, in the pandemic, but they fixed them. It seems like they fixed them relatively quickly, and they got to a good place to have a sustainable sort of assembly line of content, and you got a lot of it. And, you know, what's kind of funny about these complaints is, you know,

is there too much MMA? And there's – it's a complicated way to – years and years ago, right around 2010, 2011, 2012 or so, there was this major debate in MMA about oversaturation. And the part that got weird was that all of the arguments that were made to suggest that oversaturation

was a problem were true. Which is that it was forcing generational turnover with fans. People were just leaving the sport. All the bars in my neighborhood that used to show up stopped. There was this hot point in MMA in 2008 and 2009, right around UFC 100, let's say, that burned out as there was this turnover. And you were like, shit, man, the ratings were going down.

There was a lot of bad signs. But what ended up happening was you had this... I'm not going to attribute it strictly to Ronda and Connor, but it just came around the time that they were beginning to develop into hot commodities, where this new group of fans came in. I mean, one of the theories, you know, one of the things that people who were arguing on behalf of oversaturation, and I raised my hand there, not on behalf of, but like as a theory to take seriously, that we just didn't see coming was that like, okay, all the people you say are leaving, they're definitely leaving.

And all the ratings you see going down, they're definitely going down. But the consequences of them didn't quite materialize in the way that we thought they would, which was like the networks didn't give up on it. And a new generation of fans came in. Obviously, some have retained, but a new generation of fans came in obviously some were have retained but a new generation of fans came in and maybe more than ever and so there was this moment where you had um you know this this this uh growth through change and then also like through that process i would say after that 2016 or so you got to this point where, the best practices have really gotten good.

You know, I see a lot of complaints about the homogeneity of these cards, and I understand some of those complaints, and I think they were very valid when oversaturation was happening because a lot of the fights were stale. There wasn't nearly as much creativity and inventiveness. And when it comes to, like, unique styles, there's not as many as you might imagine relative to how they used to be in terms of, like, identifiable ones. But But today you can turn on a random UFC card and man, you can see the jokes

on Twitter about the names and blah, blah, blah. I don't even know who the fuck these guys are. And then you watch and you're like, dude, the fights, you know, some bad ones, obviously there's some shit ones. There's some bad cards and you know, and these arguments like, Oh, the ones people pay attention to the least, those are the ones that do the best. That's just a line promoters tell you to buy into the product they've put into the least. Just don't ignore that shit. But what I will say is, I can't recall a time where I could turn on any random card and see as much just thorough skill level as I do today. And so you're talking also about big fights that they were able to make and interesting moments.

And you had this Joaquin Buckley knockout and what Adesanya is doing and, you know, Poirier versus hooker and, um, you want any J check versus Zhang Wiley, like this, you know, this globalized sport with all this

other stuff okay that's all true too like the high water mark is is incredible but sometimes the best way to measure a sport is not just by its high water mark but or at least by an organization's level anyway but by the low water mark and the low water mark is fucking high it's high man if what you really care about what you really really care about is fights and skills and and two elite fighters male or female scrapping at to the best of their ability and you know assuming that the mix works out where you get something kind of reasonably entertaining about it dude there's just never been a better time there's never been a better time. This is the time. So I would say 2016 was very special, but 2020 is up there.

It's up there, pandemic and all. All right. Oh, there was one here about the Paul brothers. I'll do this and I'll probably end on it here. I love the channel and how objective you are, usually, but your take on the Paul brothers. I'll do this and I'll probably end on it here. I love the channel and how objective you are, usually, but your take on the Paul brothers, mainly Logan,

seems pretty immature. Just saying how terribly horrible they are as humans. And going on and on while also saying you don't know much about them. Just comes off a little hypocritical. No, I'm not hypocritical.

Excuse me. No, I'm not their biggest fan either, but come on. All right, I don't know about Jake, but Logan actually did a little research into to understand this better. He is a Vine star that when vine went away you guys remember vine was it like seven seconds or some shit whatever it was 15 so i don't even remember what it was

anymore but it was the sort of technology that was like the it was almost like a long form gif uh for for a moment in time jif whatever it's pronounced and then they got rid of it and uh a bunch of those people moved on to Instagram. A lot of them, like Lele Pons, who is just a creature from the Black Lagoon, they moved on to YouTube, and some of them hit it big on YouTube, Logan Paul being one of them. Basically, this dude got famous doing bad comedy. Skits and bits.

Then I checked out his podcast, Impulsive, which is a very good name. I'll give them credit for it. We came up with a name. It podcast, Impulsive, which is a very good name. I'll give them credit for coming up with a name. It's, you know, morons having moronic discussions. I mean, obviously the guy is, you know, it's the same with Tito Ortiz. Like, Tito Ortiz can, you know, there's not much you can say in the ways of praise of his intellect at this point. But he is a capable self-promoter. I mean, some people are not altogether very interesting or deeply thoughtful

or whatever, but they'll have these certain instincts that translate into abilities and certain lack of fear or whatever that makes them very capable self-promoters. Well, the Paul brothers are quite capable of this.

Again, if what you're asking me to measure is their economic impact, I will not deny it. And if you're asking me to say, is there a market for the kind of thing that they do, quite clearly, and it's a lot bigger than the one for my market. The best I'll ever do will not be as good as they do if what you're measuring is the overall market potential. But I don't make content for donks. It's not what I do. I'm not trying to. It wouldn't

even occur to me and I would be bad at it if I tried. I make content for people who are trying to do a little bit more than that. I don't make content for the for you know for fucko and piso which i'm saying in a very pedestrian and immature and frankly um you know vulgar way i understand that but that's no one watches technical difficulties for for who lacks deep interest in the nuances of combat sports. That's not who the audience is. And so as a consequence, it will always be narrowed. Listen, if you guys want to give praise to the Paul brothers for hustle,

I am certain that they have hustled. And if you want to give them credit for what they have turned themselves into in terms of their financial returns, I won't get in the way. That's not what I do. I couldn't do it if I tried. The objective fact is what the objective fact is. They are massively successful. But they do it because they appeal to fucking idiots.

And there are a lot of fucking idiots out there who are into bad comedy and bad shtick and bad conversations. Dude, that's a lucrative fucking market. And apparently if you like watching him fight, you're into bad fights too., and bad conversations. Dude, that's a lucrative fucking market. And apparently, if you like watching him fight, you're into bad fights too, either one of them. I go, the Nate Robinson knockout was not bad, you know, for what it was. It's fine. Good even, maybe.

But, you know, if you're into the refined things, even remotely refined things, like if you really like fights, why the fuck would you watch that? You know, if you're really into good conversation between intelligent people, why would you watch that? If you're really into good comedy, why would you watch that? That's not to say that you don't want to let your hair down at times and find something that's a little silly and not over the top. And not everything has to be masterpiece theater or a criterion collection, you know, or beion Collection or be recipients of honors at the Kennedy Center.

Okay, fine, sure. No doubt about it. But in general, it's just low-level crap. And God bless them, dude. They made a ton of money off of that. No doubt about it, man. They are the American dream. Good for them, dude.

I'm not here to stop what they've got going on. Couldn't do it if I tried. But you guys want me to dignify it because there's a large audience for it? I'm not doing it. The size of the audience, to me, confers respectability in terms of maybe what their ambitions have been. But for the product itself? It's fucking stupid. It's for mouth breathers.

You know, okay. You can fucking vote that down. You can do what you want, man. No one in life ever wants to be, like if you're at all discerning, oh, you're a fucking hater, fine. Call me a hater. I'm a hater. I don't give a shit. I don't care. I don't care that there is this kind of label being put on people who have the temerity to say some things are better than others. Some things are way better than others. And there comes to a point where if you like some of this stuff, there's a taste level involved. There's a taste level involved if you like that shit. So, you know, you can say what you want about all my stuff too. It's fine.

We're all entitled to our opinion. I will respect their hustle till the day I die. And as I said before, dude, people are tragically underestimating them in terms of the scalability of what they're doing, like how long they're going to be able to keep this up and how deep-seated that YouTube popularity can be

with Kimbo Slife as a rough, but somewhat approximate measurement of what they're doing. That will last, man. That will last. But am I the consumer for this? No. I read above a sixth grade level.

Most of you do too. You're probably a little bit more like me than you are like them. Probably a lot more. So like what you like, dude You're probably a little bit more like me than you are like them. Probably a lot more. So like what you like, dude. It's a free country. But you want me to confer respectability upon this? Don't wait for that bus.

Maybe there's one more I can end on a nicer note. What would you like to see President Biden do in his first 100 days? I'm like Jim Carrey in a dumb and dumber. Don't you go dying on me? Huh? Um, that'd be the first one. Don't die.

You know what, man, you know, I got my focus on and you're starting to see it now, which is, um, let's just get the country vaccinated. Let's get the world vaccinated if we can so we can get over this nonsense and get back to our normal lives because until this is under control,

nothing else really matters at this point. So there's a lot of things I'd like to see, but the most important one is, can we please, can I tell you, think about this for a second. Can you imagine the day where, you see how many people died from, I'll end on this,

3,400 people died from COVID yesterday. I'm not here to do a whole COVID rant, I promise you. Join me in my COVID optimism for just a moment, which is, there is going to come a day where the news will report that like

five people died of COVID. That will happen. I don't know how far into the future, could be a while, but it will happen. Do you know how glorious a day that's going to be? Not for the people that lost five, you know, families that lost loved ones, but what I mean to say is

what it would say about our ability to combat this and how things would be open again, gyms would be open and, uh, you know, in ways that they're not here. Like, for example,

like here in DC, gyms are open, but if you run classes, the classes are closed. So like if you have an orange therapy or something like that, like they can't open, you know, and it's a fucking nightmare.

It's a nightmare for every, everybody is, it's a nightmare. I want that to be over. So God bless him. I hope that he can figure that out, provided that the things are in place to get us to a rough approximation.

I don't think you can get to the benchmarks I'm talking about within 100 days. But you're asking me what I want him to spend 100 days doing? Yeah, unfucking this problem is what I want him to spend 100 days doing. All right. Tomorrow, 11 a.m., Morning Combat, BC and I, we're going to get you ready for the Triple G fight, for the Canelo fight, for the biggest and last,

well, not biggest, but the last UFC card of the year. Dude, by the way, there's a big lull. After this weekend, you're not going to see a UFC event, I think, if I'm not mistaken, until what? January 16th? So you better enjoy it while you can. And yeah, lots of stuff coming your way. All right, so as always, give the video a thumbs up. Hit that subscribe button.

And I will be back With BC tomorrow To get you ready for all the greatness And Thank you guys so much for watching Until next time, stay frosty