MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - UFC’s Paramount Era Begins with UFC 324 | Jon Anik’s Ideas for Changing UFC | Eye-Poke Rules Update

Episode Date: January 19, 2026

The UFC finally returns this week and LT and The Iceman are back to get you ready for UFC 324. Also, the UFC announced featherweights Josh Emmett and Kevin Vallejos will headline an APEX event in March. Luke and Chuck break down the fight announcement and what that could mean for Vallejos moving forward. Jon Anik had some ideas to rejuvenate the UFC. Do the fellas agree and have any ideas of their own? Plus more, including a discussion about eye pokes and some boxing news. Welcome back on a Morning Kombat Monday, Donks!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Hey, readily, dogs. Look at us now, tip to tip. This is our life. This is our passion. I'm Luke Thomas. This is Morning Kombat.

We got to get Chuck his own intro. What's going on, everyone? Welcome, welcome. Fights are back. They are back. They are finally back in our life. And we are here to preview them and talk about so much more. Welcome to Morning Combat on this 19th day of January, 26.

My name is Luke Thomas. I am merely one half of your hosting duo joined by my friend and yours. Again, I just can't get rid of these Connecticut Bubbas. But here he is. It's Chuck Mindenhall. What's up, Iceman? How are you? That was true.

I guess, yeah, your last guy was Connecticut, too. I guess that's where all the talents is for this chair, right? That's where all the available talent is, I suppose. I'm not sure else to say it. I'm ready for round two, man. you know that's when I come to life. This is our second show and this is usually when I start to show up. You know that. Yes, of course. So all the feel out round like Bud Crawford. Yes. Congratulations to your Broncos and also sorry about your Broncos. But I was happy, I was happy to see the bills lose because, well, their fan base is intolerable. Let's just be honest about that.

I found that to be the case, but I do know, I feel like I know more Buffalo Bills fans than just about any other like type of fan, right? Like there's, I feel like they're everywhere. So some of those people, I like. And so it's kind of always bittersweet when they, when they get ousted like that. The reason why you know so many Bill's fans in real life is because you see their mugshots on the news and they're also close talkers in person. They are close talkers. You knew the people I know here in town. You know exactly that that's true. Hey, Josh Allen's the best quarterback in the league. Really? Why does he keep going home sad? A little flexing nacho cheese on your face afterward. Yeah. All right. We have a lot to get to today, Chuck. So we're going to talk about UFC 324, which is finally here.

We'll have a bit of a boxing roundup closer to the end of the show. There's been an update on referees understanding the problems with iPokes. John Anick has talked about how he would change the UFC product and so much more. Do us a favor if you can. Give this episode a thumbs up if you're watching right now on YouTube. You can follow us there. Our socials as well for Chuck, for me for the show. If you're listening on the audio platform, give us a nice review.

that certainly always goes far when you do. And let's not forget, morningcombat.shop. We have our current merch that's up there. Remember, the poster is just $25 for this month. They're a little bit banged up in transit. But of course, you can get the Stranger Danger shirts, this design courtesy of average Joe art. Now, Chuck, what do you have going on for planned coverage?

I know you're going to Vegas this week. Yes. And I know you're going to the Zufa boxing event. Are you going to 324 as well? I'm not. So I'll do a column coming out of UFC 324, but we felt like to be at the event, you're like,

well, what could really be different that they're going to be doing? Maybe like some minor things, but really what you want to see is what it looks like on the presentation on television, right?

Like you want to be able to watch and see what that is. So I'm going to fly back on the day of and be back in time to watch and do that part of it. But yes, I'll be out there for the Zufa boxing event, which it just feels huge.

huge as we get to fight week at this point. Doesn't it? Like it feels like a big one to me. Does it? No. No. It's like it's Callum Walsh in a warehouse. I'm like, I don't, I don't quite get that. But I mean, I guess I sort of, we talked about it last week. I guess I sort of get that. I will say this, how does it work for uncrowned? Do you guys have someone that goes to all the events? Like, how do you all apportion that?

No, I think that at some point we realized that the kind of, um, coverage that most the sites are doing, you know, just the way that they set up media week now, the fight week. It's not real conducive. Just you don't really need to be there for it. So I think we have a couple of events that will always have somebody on the ground. But for the most part, they focus their travel budget on other things, you know, like visiting fighters elsewhere. The fight weeks themselves don't seem worth it. I'll say this. And I know we're going to talk about it here in a minute. That 9 p.m. main card start. I just can. I just can. can't say people have been like what do you want out of the ufc on paramount era i'm like don't change

anything 9 p.m start on the main card no pay-per-view just just do that just do that and i'll be i'll be quite happy dude i'd be dying a lot of those times when you got when you limp into 10 o'clock and they're just doing the promos you know they're just doing the intro for the show the cold open and you're like oh my god man we still got like two and a half three hours of this and then you go you do a a post like show right too so like knowing that you're like man we're not even halfway home yet we've got a long way to go and it's you're already dying you know I mean again this is part of the reason why the show I mean we'll be back in studio soon I'm sure but like part of the reason why we're doing this here on Monday remotely is because you know the the just the toll it took where again it was more accumulative over many many years but then you're I don't basically on basically on the nights where I do a post fight show I don't go to bed until roughly 4 a.m because after the show is over there's a bunch of stuff on the back end you have to do to get ready for the next day's amount of work. So all that's done and then you go to bed.

And then I would have to get back up at 4 a.m. the following day to come up here. And it's like, dude, when you're 27, yeah, it's like, all right, you know, you're a little tired. Well, you're 47, which I'm not quite yet, but like still, it's just a completely different ballgame, you know. That one hour really does make a difference. It's critical. It really makes a difference, man. All right. Before we get going here, last thing, let's bring in the third member of our show.

show yet another white guy here to give his opinions it's long island luke the son of a as brian kempel would say many times a horned up australianne it's his birthday today actually it's the horned up his birthday today's a shout out to him who's he going to impregnate for his birthday uh hopefully no one i mean you know long long over those days uh also me and my girlfriend's seven year anniversary today wow congrats she walking around going pretty much yeah yeah she's doing one of those there's a, you know, empty spot there. She's waiting for it. Yeah, yeah. But she's probably listening in the other room, too.

How many live streams are you going to do from, are you going to do the Zufa boxing live stream? No, I'm not going to do Zupa Boxing. I might not even watch it, to be honest, you know, probably try and do something else Friday, but I may watch it. But definitely doing full card Saturday. We back at it. First one of the year, been like five weeks off because I did Jake Paul.

But, yeah, looking forward to it. Yeah. Last thing on this, appreciate you long on. Last thing on this is Chuck, before we get going, I did that. I did the Jake Paul fight on that. I remember it was a Friday night for Anthony Joshua. And then I never went to bed and then just went to the airport and did a two-legged international travel with child. My God. That was a, that was such a stupid idea.

I don't think I could do that. I don't even think I have a, I don't, I don't think I'm capable of doing that anymore. You know, I used to do shit like that all the time. I just, I can't do that. Yeah, I can't either, even though I did. and I could do it again, but probably only at gunpoint. You know what I mean? It would be one of those situations.

Well, it's an exotic life you lead there. Well, it's an exhausting one. How about that? All right, without further ado, let's get this party started here. Topic number one, what else would we talk about? The fights are back, ladies and gentlemen. They are back. UFC 324 is this weekend.

And of course, it's a numbered event. We can't say pay-per-view anymore, as well as the first one of the UFC Paramount Era. A lot of high expectations. As we indicated, we already know this. It's going to be a 9 p.m. main card start. It's been traditionally 10 p.m. And of course, it's not going to be pay-per-view anymore. There still is the paywall to get through with, you have to be a subscriber to Paramount Plus, but not that additional layer to keep you out. So Chuck, as the UFC takes on its maiden voyage here in the Paramount era, the first, this will be the first, as I've indicated, sort of like, top tier UFC event, they're bringing on, CBS is bringing on, Kate Scott as part of the broadcast, does the UFC need to do even more than what we've already talked about to make this first event special and meet fan demand? Or have they already kind of set themselves up nicely to deliver what I think the fans are hoping for? Yeah, it's a tough one. I was thinking about this, you know, when they first introduced the Fox era. Remember they had that bonus card.

They're like, hey, we're going to do a kickoff party before we even get this card going with the Kane Velasquez, Junior Descent. and they had, I remember how strange it felt. Maybe you remember this too seeing like Kurt Minifie, for instance, like hosting that. And it felt like, dude, our small weird sport. Now is Kurt Minifie like sitting here talking about it. And they had, if I recall it was like John Jones. They had a couple of people in the, uh, in the studio. And it felt very like there was a ceremony to this whole thing.

And I'm interested, I guess, to see if there's anything like that. I couldn't remember other than the strangeness of the ESPN opening. if you recall because of the Greg. Greg Hardy was on the co-domain event. They had Rachel Ostevich, who was down on the lower, like on that same main card. And it felt very like tone deaf for the UFC to go into the ESPN era with that kind of dynamic in place. But in terms of like, will they do something that distinguishes it? And I don't necessarily think they have to. Like I feel like some of the promo packages and the things that they're going to run on Paramount Plus already contain a little bit of a different.

I don't know, a different feel. Maybe you feel differently about it, but like they, they seem more cinematic. It seems to fit the themes of what they're normally streaming. And they're kind of like splicing in the UFC to their existing, you know, whatever they've got going on. I just, it'd be interesting to see kind of what they come up with.

But, you know, I don't, to be fully honest, man, because I haven't seen them. Maybe it's because of Dana's kind of enthusiasm factor, like not being where it was. like I don't really anticipate any big changes. Do you? Okay, well, they've already done the big ones already, right? The pay-per-view has been indicated in the start-time. What are they calling this, by the way? So I was thinking about that when you put,

we keep mentioning it's like a premier event or what do we call it. They call it numbered events. Okay, that's what we're calling it. Yeah, numbered events. All right. I think that they do have to do a little bit extra. So again, we're going on the pay-per-view, getting rid of that. We're doing the earlier start time.

They're bringing on Kate Scott. I think if they add a few more. more bells and whistles on the production side. Maybe they hold their cards close to their vest and then give an announcement about some impending fight. Maybe they announced, for example, I think the fans would probably be hyped if they did. I'm just making something up. Hey, we're going to already tell you what the main event is for UFC White House or, you know, some kind of indication about here's what we got going on. Here's what we got cooking. It looks shiny. It looks new. Got that new car smell kind of getting into it. And they're off to the races. But I think

I think it actually be a mistake to try and do too much. I mean, here's the reality. Every time the UFC signs one of these deals, so when they go from Spike to Fox, Fox to ESPN, and now ESPN to CBS or Paramount, one of the biggest things that I've seen is that the in-house teams at these places are not usually fully ready to deliver the UFC product as it's supposed to be delivered, which is understandable.

This is not a criticism. It's just a reflection of reality. You have these in-house teams that, again, they might do NFL, they might do whatever, and they're all very talented. But MMA is, like any other sport, is its own kind of beast. You have to have institutional knowledge to make this work. And I don't think they really built that out yet. I mean, again, this is the first UFC event on Paramount.

They haven't really announced like all the different Paramount shoulder programming that's going to be a part of it. Because I don't think they've even come up with it yet. I don't even think they haven't even announced any hirings exactly for who they're going to keep and who they're going to add and what shows are going to be. None of this has been settled. And so I think trying to do too much in this moment would actually be a bit of a problem. But at the same time, our fans expecting, you know, a little bit of a Red Bull pep introduced them to the whole thing.

I think as long as you deliver that, you'll be fine. Yeah. I really do believe that. Well, I mean, I feel like they have, traditionally I feel like they think some of this through. And I would maybe something like what you mentioned. Like obviously, if they, if they mentioned the White House thing, can you imagine? in the buzz because first of all that when that's sort of like okay now we're definitely pinning the state we know for sure that this is going to happen because i feel like still it lives in this abstract

like we're we're trying to do this we'll see but they're promising it but i feel like that that would actually say like this is happening uh that would be a major buzz in the old days man when when they were like kind of you know doing these cards one of the big moments within the the pay-per-views was they would announce fights do you remember this and we would everybody be on Twitter. This is in the earlier days of Twitter and everybody would be talking about that. It was like this added buzz that you could add to your event and now suddenly you're very excited, not just about what's about to happen, but what's down the road. So maybe they would use something like that. I think it would be advantageous for them to do that. Yeah, there's no question.

Now, let's talk about some of the fights on this card if we can. Obviously, their main event, the UFC interim lightweight title is up for grabs when Justin Gachie takes on Patty Pindler. We're going to look at it from both sides of the equation here. The first one would be a very basic one. And I want to play a video before we get your answer, Chuck. It would be about Justin Gachie's legacy because I think we're going to have to start figuring this out. And here's why he told Aaron Bronstetter, if he gets K-O'd, he's finished. You've always given me a number of how many wars you have left in you.

What is that number today? One more knockout. I went to sleep. Before that, I'd never been put to sleep. If I would go get put to sleep again, I would definitely call quits. Really? So you're drawing a line? that's been my line.

Yeah. It never happened. So I wasn't like, if I get knocked out, I'm quitting. But once I got knocked out, you know, 37 years old. If I was 20, 27, 30, this would be a different story. But this is not the beginning. This is definitely the end of my career.

And it's been such an amazing thing. Obviously, they'll use and abuse you in this sport, and you have to protect yourself, you know, and I obviously have created a team. You know, I got my family and my coaches, and they all have my best interest in hand. And I've always told them that I'm in it till they say I don't have it no more. And or whenever I feel like my younger self, the hunger of my younger self can beat the skills that I've, that I have now, then it would be done.

Now, one more of this. I think we have a graphic from Trevor Whitman. Here's what he said, which is not quite the same thing as Justin, quote, this is our last run. If we don't win this fight, we're not going on. We're not going to go out there and be a gatekeeper and look at money. fights. He knows he's got to be there for his family and take care of his health. Chuck, it's interesting, right? Because he's already been an interim champion. And I guess there is something to be said for being a two-time interim champion. But how would you assess

Justin Gacy's legacy if this ends up being his last fight? Well, I guess it wouldn't be if he won. So let's start with if he loses. What's on the line here for Justin Gagie? And what a swing this would be? Because obviously if you win, now you're the champion and you have fights lined up, right? So it's like this feels very kind of stark. I don't know if you ever talked to Justin way back in the day, but he was one of those guys. He was a bit of a red flag human being because the way he fought was unsustainable because he was this berserker coming in from WSOF.

And it just felt like I don't think that you can maintain this for any amount of time. Like you're eventually this is going to catch up to you. And he would talk about it. He's like, you know, man, I know my style is reckless. I know that I could have CTE. he would talk about this stuff and you'd be like, man, I've just never heard anybody who's not worried about their future. The biggest juxtaposition at the end of his career, first of all, is that he sustained it and he went this far. And like you mentioned, became an interim champion and fought for the, you know, fought for the actual title and has basically fought top five for the last, I don't know how many years is that he's still, you know, is he still there?

And now he's thinking more clearly, it's very weird because he's sort of like, you know what? if I lose this one, I'm out, and that's a very clear-minded way to be. He has won a ton. I mean, and it may speak when you win bonus money like he has, this becomes like a major deal of how you, you know, supplemented your income. He's done a lot of that. And I think that when you mention his legacy, it's going to be, like I was trying to think of the actual, like, he may be one of a kind in the sense of the types of competition that he fought in and the magnitude of event that he fought in. he was always a guy that you could plug in to a major event not not necessarily like a donald seroni where you could just plug him into a main card and he's like anywhere anytime but more of a guy who was

who would deliver on a promise of a card that maybe was lacking and he would bring something to that table that would uh that would fill it in for everybody and everybody would be happy with it because it was just in gauchy and he brought out the best of the other guy and they went to war he's a berserker man i think that that's going to be who is when i think back on uh gaichie let's presume he doesn't win this fight. Like when I look back at his career, it's going to be a guy who brought that mentality, which I think is almost the quintessential,

you know, mentality that the UFC always used to preach in their prep fights or the before the fights where they would say, like, hey, guys, leave it all out there. You know, do not leave it in the hands of the judges and all this sort of thing. This was Justin Gatchie. He was kind of a godsend of the UFC,

stood in a lot of big moments and still was very, very successful in terms of the types of competition he fought because he fought the who's who, man. So I just think I'm always going to think of a wild man. What about you when you think about him? I firstly consider him part of a generation of lightweights that I don't know we'll ever get again. When you talk about him, Chandler, Eddie Alvarez, when you talk about Justin Porrier, when you talk about, you know, obviously Connor, part of that as well, and Habib. And there was that mean, Connor and Habee were a little bit different because they obviously ascended to greater heights.

But there was like this and Eddie was a champion too. But there was like a generation of lightweights who were just fucking war horses. And he was part of that. He made a very, very, very special era of lightweights. You can put Charles Oliva in that as well, who's getting kind of aging out. There's just been a really, really, really special run. And if you look at the current crop of lightweights, I think they're very good. And certainly the guys at the top like Saruky and and Tuporia, I think are really, really good.

and I'm glad that they're there, but I don't think there's quite as much of the same thing. They're not, they're not easily going to be replaced. I think he's part of that. But to your point, he was a guy from World Series of Fighting. Remember James Vick called him the Homer Simpson of MMS? Where he was just, oh, you just get hit a bunch. And then he flattened him and went out and he actually, I think, over it. Justin Gachie has massively overachieved relative to his style.

His style, he should have been finished in the sport a while ago, but because he is a special kind of fighter, he's transcended that. The interesting part about me for this bout is, if he wins the interim belt, is a two-time interim champion equivalent to a champion? I don't think that it is, but it's not nothing.

But if he loses, I don't think it actually ruins his legacy either. It just kind of seals what we understand him in place. It freezes him, so to speak, in the Star Wars universe in Carbonite. And there's really nothing else there to advance. The only way any of this really changes how we understand him long term, is if he goes out there, beats Patty

and then does something special in the fight thereafter. Otherwise, again, it's not to say he's not done amazing things, but this fight doesn't, it's weird. It's critical to change, but by itself doesn't do much, I think.

Oh, you're right, man. And like the fact that he, like, you were mentioning, like when he came over, you're talking about the lightweight field, when he came over, how exciting was that, the idea that you were now putting this guy

who was the champion over there who fought, you remember the leg kicks and everything like with the and Luis Palomino and the guys like he was blowing up over there and you're like you're putting this guy now into the fold of all these guys who are already here it did make for a crazy era but more to your point man like I hadn't thought of this until we were kind of like putting together the show and you'd you'd mention this but like it is a huge hinge moment because if he wins a title I do feel like he wins an actual title and you know we see how everything plays out this year. it does change things for him because you know how it is it's like Dustin Porrier is one of those guys who kept changing you know changing the perception of him as time went on and became like a more beloved figure even if he didn't win everything like he became like this beloved figure I think that you would have to look at like

Justin Gage and be like man the BMF title you know just standing in there even though he didn't win that exchange it became he became like the you know posterized by by Holloway in that crazy ass exchange one of the craziest things we've seen in the sport. But to just come back from that and win a title, I do think that that, you know, that would be something that we would look at. And I think you would have to consider with Justin Gitchie forever after that, man, because that kind of perseverance is also very unique to a guy like him.

This is interesting to think about, which is on the other side of the equation with Patty Pimbley, clearly the UFC has big expectations for him, not merely to help mature and nurture the UK market, but just as a guy that the fans, whether they like him or they hate him, and most people seem to like him, but you can be a lightning rod in a variety of ways, that there's just a lot of buzz around him.

So what happens? Like, do you think the UFC would be bitter if Justin Gichi won in the sense that, A, it doesn't add much to his legacy to be a two-time interim champion, and B, now you've ruined the party on the other side. I guess it kind of tells you what they expect to happen. I don't think they think that Gage's going to win.

They don't book, you know, if it was about Justin Gates, like, let's put it this way. It would be Patty versus Armand, right, if they weren't worried about Patty. If they weren't trying to get him out of it, they would be like, well, you just put this guy who deserves it. Justin's pushed out of the equation. You have these two guys go at it. The reason Justin's in there, I think, is because the new arrow, they want to associate with a guy who is a firebrand who comes in and, you know, like Patty Pimbleet and realizes, you know, he wins a title and he's able to kind of set up whatever next in that division, which could be a couple of different scenarios. So it would be in a very healthy position. And I think Patty is a guy that would

draw casual interest back into the sport right away and all that stuff. So you're right. This is one of those situations where Justin Gachie gets the, like he gets the chance to kind of blow up the plans here. And this is, I don't know how you feel about this fight, but there's no animosity. It's almost like everything's off center when they look at each other. They just have admiration. they've said some things, but it's like, it's mostly like, I like this guy, it's a necessary you've got to go beat him. Meanwhile, you know, like Dan Hooker and Patty Pimbled are like, you know, bad blood brewing like back and forth and you got Aramon out there,

which Patty has commented on and Justin has looked at him as well. It's a very strange setup. It just, it feels like in that sense that you're right, the Gachy's being placed in there basically to get Patty over in the wrestling term, right? Like to get him over and be like, here we go. Now we, now we enter this era. And we've seen this before, man, where whatever that plan is doesn't work. And it would be very interesting if it doesn't. I suppose the worst case scenario, right, is that you have Justin Gaichi, who's never done the UFC wrong. And that's in delivering fight. So if he's

your champion, you'll be fine. But that's not the way they're designing it here. The draft king's odds have Gaichi at plus 190, Pimblet at minus 230. Of course, all of those are subject to change. They can change between now and then, but they kind of indicate, I think pretty correctly what the odds should be, that Pimbley deserves to be the favor, but it's not so, I mean, it's strong, but it's not so overwhelming that you could not imagine a case for Gachy to win. Let's talk about Patty for just a second here. Now, in his case, I will tell you, I did not see him even becoming an interim champion, and his improvement to me has been real. He's filled out dramatically in this weight class. That's another thing I didn't see coming when he was at 145.

someone once asked me like, you know, this was back when, this was back when, um, Tuporia was at 45 and this, even before he was champion, like long before that. And they were like, you know, oh, what happens if, uh, Tuporia fights Patty? I'm like, you might kill him. It's a mismatch. You know, you can't even do something like that. But to his credit, I remember. Yeah.

Yeah, to his credit, he has actually improved significantly. And now I still think I would pick Tepore to beat him 10 times out of 10. But his ascendancy, this was a guy, you know, people always talk about like favoritism in the fight game and like, did he have some coming from Cage Warriors? sure, but it all kind of work. Like favoritism in the fight game can backfire, but when it works, you have to acknowledge it as well. Clearly the UFC favors him.

And an interim title, Chuck, as minimal as we might count it as an award, I think in his case would actually be something of a freaking achievement. It's the same thing that Gachi had and that Poirier had. It puts them in some pretty interesting company. It really does. And to your point, man, it would be fairly remarkable to look back on. because I think with Patty Pimble, he felt more like a novelty that the UFC brought in than he did a legitimate contender. And even in the early fights against Vargas and some of those guys that he was standing in against, they weren't easy for him.

You know, he looked like he kind of, he'd get clipped too easily. Like, it just looked like he was, he would get himself into trouble. And I just remember back in those, like in that time, you're thinking like, well, we'll see how long this goes. But it felt very much like a novelty. like you're just watching this guy who has this, you know, this fan base he brings over and we'll see how long that goes. For him to end up in this position and to actually win a title would be fairly remarkable because this

is a guy who's had to deal with larger amounts of scrutiny, I guess. You know what I mean? Like he's been forced to have to deliver in situations because he's, you know, he talks a big game and when you get in there, if he doesn't deliver, it's going to look very poorly on him. He's been able to do that. And honestly, man, like, yeah, you got Tony Ferguson, and it was long and tooth kind of way past his prime,

and you get a guy like Michael Chandler, this to me, even though Gaichi's pretty old, but this to me is like, if you're able to get through Justin Gaichi, and I don't think you're seeing a hugely diminished Justin Gaich. If you're able to do that to him, I think that that is one of the stories that we have to look at in our sport and be like, wow, man, this dude really capitalized

in a way that I never saw coming. I personally didn't see it coming. And I remember talking to people who'd watched him in England beforehand and just kind of the way he took losses, the way he was almost suicidal at certain points. And they would wonder about his mentality if he was even cut for the fight game in a long-term situation. So you get into this situation now, man,

it's a fairly remarkable. I know he's kind of almost downplaying it. You know what I mean? But this is a big deal for him. Why do you think he's downplaying it? I don't know, man. I saw an interview and it just seemed like he was like, you know, maybe he has almost like,

operific delivery sometimes. He doesn't really feel like he's, you know, fully awake sometimes. But he was, he was just kind of saying like it'd be great to be the champion. But it was almost like it was not the end all for him and all that stuff. But I just, to me it feels like he's not really seeing it like I'm just pointing out. It's not like he sees it as this escalation and this moment to kind of like put a bow on something that, you know, he came from these very hard beginnings and here he is. I just, I didn't get that sense from him.

Maybe that all changes with the emotions on fight night, but he's just kind of downplayed it, you know? I don't know why, to be honest. You know, what's interesting is I think he almost sees it as automatic. Let's play this video here. Patty thinks that it's actually fate that he's going to end up unifying the title opposite Ilya Teporia. It's like it's fate.

I don't know what it was meant to happen. Because all that was just over not on for now. We just dislike each other, you know what I mean? I respect him as a fighter. I think he's a brilliant fighter, lad. Up until Armand fought Hukhar, I was thinking Armand was the tougher fight. And then when I fought Hukhur, I've seen so many holes in his game. So, really is the toughest fight out there.

People look at, for me, Islam's par for par number one. He's number two. And I want to beat him that. I want to be on that par for palm list. I want to show everyone why we have weight divisions and that. he's just too small to beat me. As I say, on a professional level, I really respect him. I think he's a very good fighter.

He's a great champion, but I'll be an even better one. You have to love the moxie. You have to love it. It's just a breezy kind of confidence that this is all set up. I mean, maybe you feel that way when you're fighting nothing but dudes in their late 30s and early 40s. Well, that is true, man. I mean, like he is getting the platter of the... You mentioned...

You mentioned, you know, the lightweight division being a golden era through all of those fights. He's kind of, you know, getting the leftovers of that division at this point. People, people, which is true. Like, you have, like, this is one of those things where, like, you still, you'll see this all the time if you watch fights long enough. Where, like, again, this was a similar kind of criticism that was levied against John Jones. Here he comes. And he's beating Rampage and Shogun and Machita and, you know, Bader too. but that was obviously before the title run itself.

And everyone's like, oh, he's just beating all the old guys. I'm like, that's the job. That's the job of someone who is taking out a division and is instituting generational change. Now, I'm not saying that's what Patty is going to do because we're talking about John at the title level doing that, less so at the pre-title level. But, you know, that's the job. At the same time, though, Chuck, the other thing that's one of you come back to is like, okay, it's great to beat all the unks, but that's not the same as beating the Armands and the is, you know what I mean? Well, and it's also that, like, at some point in time, you've seen Gaichi fight everybody, right?

Like, you've kind of seen him fighting everybody. Like you said, it's the job to go in there, but it's also the game itself. The game itself is saying, like, the young guy has to come up and get rid of these old guys, and we do it again. It reimagines everything. We have fresh matchups all over the place. And, you know, the excitement level, or I guess the imagination of the fight game, has a whole different meaning if Patty is holding a lot.

that belt even even for a little while like you're going to have he mentions they have a they have an ongoing you know thing that at some point maybe they can do something about it um it's just you get a lot of he's able he's been very good at just kind of setting the table for his run which maybe it is fate maybe maybe that's how he views it but he's done a very good job and it just opens up the imagination whereas the gaichi you know at some point you're like well what who else do we want to see him fight we've kind of seen him fight the gamut and all these new guys that are coming up doesn't excite you as much. And the truth is, last thing on this, we'll talk about the co-main event, which is, you need people to do what Patty has the opportunity to do. It's not at, I mean, okay, it's

technically at the title level because it's an interim one, but for the sake of argument, it's not the real title level, obviously. Right. You need young guys to beat up the old guys and you need them to be replaced. Like, you, that's good for a division when that happens. And not for nothing, Chuck. He's not American. the UFC could use some stars. Obviously in UK as well, we don't know what the hell's going to happen with Tom Aspinall and Leon's on his way out.

Like Patty would be revitalizing both for the UFC brand more broadly in that market. Now, let's talk about that co-made event with the time we have remitting here for this topic. It was supposed to be Kayla Harrison and Amanda Nunes. That's going to be postponed for, you know, however many months. We'll see how that goes. So they moved up Sean O'Malley versus Song Yadong. Chuck, true or false? I mean, what a turn of events for Sean O'Malley who gets wasted

by Marab de Walsh Wheely twice in basically 10 months or something like that. And you think it's completely out of the title picture. Then he loses to Jan who Sean O'Malley technically beat. He's facing Song Yadong. If he wins, talking about Sean O'Malley, it's a guaranteed title shot. Is it not? No, it definitely is. It definitely is.

It's actually, and it's crazy how this works because you have a guy, I think when O'Malley lost the second time to Marab, you're basically like, what happens now? this is a guy who he's not playing at the top or if there's a possibility of a title does he just go to a different weight class he's kind of cut out that way like as a competitor and like as a as a personality not to just hang around but yet the guy that he gets stuck behind maraub you know tries to make history and loses this fight and all as it does is exonerate you know like o'malley and puts him into this new space where it's like hey man i've got the inside track they would completely give o'malley the title if he's able to able to go in there and do work, especially in the first card of the year like this in a co-main event, they're definitely going to put him against Yon, because that fight, the first fight was very close. I don't know if you remember, like, watching it in real time, but it was very close in the sense that there was a lot of volume from O'Malley, but he kind of outstruck him, but the efficiency went to Yon, and Yon, like, put him on his back, like, a bunch of times.

He had, like, almost six take downs for almost six minutes of control time. You could, you could have easily given that fight the other way. And I think a lot of people, you know, people thought Yon won it. So like you have a controversy to actually it feels unresolved. There's no way in hell though U.S.U would miss that opportunity to put him against Peter Yon again. What happens if he loses? Now this is obviously the biggest win of Song Yadong's career, but would it be fair to say that if O'Malley loses to someone like this, and I know he lost to Chito Vera on his run up, but that was semi-injury related and obviously he avenged that loss pretty convincingly. So he's not really lost to a guy of this level. Does

it move Sean O'Malley to 45? I think so in the sense that what we were just talking about. He strikes me as a guy who if he if he doesn't have, if he can't be at the top of the game, right? Like if he can't be near the top or threatening for the top, I don't know, I don't know if he just wants to play in the kind of more like middle, the middle ground with the other guys. Like he's, he sees himself, even though he downplays it a little bit, like I think he sees

himself as that guy. So I think 145 fresh matchups, that would probably. probably be the way to go. I know he's not super eager to do that, but if he wants to remain kind of vital and also maybe where maybe that's the track, maybe that's where you follow the money a little bit too. I think that that would be the move. I just can't imagine him just wanting to work his way back from, you know, from I guess a three-fight losing streak at that point, right? Yeah, I mean, also like not for nothing, but, you know, people are constantly complain like, oh, so-and-so is an industry plant or they're getting unfair, you know, a boost

And it's like, dude, I mean, on the one hand, yes, he has the winner of a yon, which makes this, you know, it would make a potentially revenge fight, certainly a rematch. And that has a certain kind of appeal. But at the same time, we talked about it, Chuck, like, UFC's going to be trying to find any American they can to push to the front of the line to help revitalize, I think this market to a degree. Like, Sean O'Malley is just sitting in a really great opportunity. Song Yidong is no joke, but it's such a fortuitous position. On the other side, be, excuse me, I'm going to get to. used to it. On the other side, Chuck, I apologize. Yeah, I know, I got a drink. On the other side of it, Song-a-dong, dude, this would be far and away his biggest win. Here's a guy who's been kind of

maturing, kind of maturing, getting better, but I don't think he, in my mind, he doesn't have a real signature win. He's got good wins, but the Suhudo win doesn't count. Do you share that assessment? Yes, 100%. I think that that's his big moment of arrival, right? Like his big moment where you're like, okay, that dude is for real or whatever. It's definitely, this is exactly. This is exactly. the kind of name he needs. It's kind of a, I feel like it's one of those situations. Like we've seen them many, many times in this game where a guy is kind of cast in a position where, you know, if he wins, which is the whole objective, you kind of, you might piss

people off ultimately, right? Because people are like, oh, we wanted to see the O'Malley thing. They're not really contemplating you. They're kind of looking past you towards other things. And that's where he's, that's where he's at, man. He's being cast into this position. He's still a young guy. He's had some great fights.

He doesn't have that signature win. And he goes in there and does business. You can't worry about all that perception. You just got to go get your, you know, secure your own bag, get that title shot for yourself and let the chips hold on the May. But I know in the short term, that would be a bit of a buzzkill for a lot of people. For the very reason that you're mentioning, which is just trying to get, especially with this White House card looming, some American, you know,

some American title holders again are getting guys back. into that space. UFC would probably love nothing more. And as a matter of fact, we have a clip here. O'Malley wants to fight Jan at the White House. Let's see it. Mevers Peter at the White House just makes sense. I don't know what else.

What else? What's a bigger fight than that? If we're going off just pure big fights, if you're going off of what makes the absolute most sense, which is not always what the UFC goes off of. I think Marab deserves a title shot. but if you're going off of what the fuck's the biggest fight you know me versus peter rematch at the white house seems like the biggest fight and we need someone to represent who you were saying that

white house because of what i seen i mean i i i would like to say that i disagree in purposes of meritocracy for marab i don't think that i do i don't think that i do no i don't think also also the first fight was under dispute about who actually won exactly exactly that's the biggest you know thing in his back pocket is just there are a lot of people who thought, oh, Malley lost that fight. And he ends up getting his hand race. So now you have a rematch to kind of resolve that whole issue. And dude, after Yon did work to Marab at the end of the year and put on his master

class performance, that's a huge fight for him, too. So I just can't imagine that they would rush Marab back into that space when you have that kind of fight sitting there ready made. You know what I mean? There's a million other things we could pick from. But in the interest of time, I'm just going to put to you. here. Any other storyline that you kind of have your eye on that that stands out. Well, I mean, this kid, 23 year old, Atiba Gautier, man, like, that's a guy. Have you, if you've been

watching it, man? I mean, like, for the middleweight division, he's completely freaking yoked. He goes in there. It's like every punch looks like it's just going to just drop the curtain on whoever he's aiming at. And literally, that has been the case so far. He's got a fight coming up. I know that they have, he's got a fight on this card. They have him again at something like, a minus 1,000 favorite to go in there and just smash your guy. So it's like these things are always a lot of fun because you're still in the showcase mode. But dudes, like pay attention to this guy. I think that the thing I realized I was, I haven't been to a lot of UFCs over the last couple of years,

but I was at his last one at UFC 320. And it's just like every time he throws, there's something in that building. This is fun. When you get a guy like this, like every time he throws, you're like, oh, shit, here we go. You know, it just, everything is so, has such bad intention. So I'm looking forward. I'm hoping that he's able to kind of keep building because that division could definitely use a monster coming up.

I love that. I can't wait to see how he looks. Also, I'm going to just throw in here, Rosenama Eunice. Now, listen, she currently sits at 33 years of age. That's not old, but she's been, and she doesn't have a ton of fights, just 20 professional fights.

That's not nothing, but that's not a huge amount necessarily. But she's been fighting kind of for a long amount of time, Chuck. She's gone through a lot of ups and downs and journeys and titles and big wins and big wins and big. losses. She is coming off a win over Miranda Maverick, which is nice. But if she loses to Natalia Silva, I just don't know what this does to her title opportunity. She still will have a big name. I'm not saying that she would be rendered ineligible. But she's been up and down. She beats Hebas. She beats Cortez. That's great. But then loses to Blanchefield. She rebounds against

Maverick, you know, but to keep some kind of winning streak alive to get back to an opportunity, which not for nothing, this division feels wide open. It might be a strong word, but still available for the taking, I suppose, in some ways. No, that's not quite not right either. But I don't think a title's out of reach, I guess, is the way that I would put that, given how things can change at the top. And so a win here is not like,

oh, it's win or go home. But it's not far from that. It feels like this needs to be something she can put together convincingly. And it's also weird because I think that she's one of those fighters who you're like, in a condensed version, you look at her career and you're like, she did so much.

she did so much we first saw her coming at 22 years old you know coming off the ultimate fighter fighting carlos spars uh losing her first thing getting compared to you know the next ronda rousey all that stuff so big time um kind of expectations probably unfair placed on her overcome all that have a career where she you know wins titles twice beat some of the best i mean the very best women in the straw weight division uh with jeng wali and also uh yuana a couple of times just fights that you will always think back on a big oh my god i remember when that happened it was already to the point where it's like well the title doesn't even mean that but she was almost talking about it like who cares about the title anymore like i've kind of done everything

this is her years ago so now in the weight class that she's in i think that the hunger to kind of hold the belt again is still there even though she uh you know i don't think that she necessarily went there specifically to win it again i think she was just wanted to do the new weight class but She's right there, man. And I feel like that's actually like a huge legacy defining thing. If you're able to go up weight class, kind of persevere with the loss you mentioned, like to Blanchfield, like, you know, put yourself in a position where you win another one. The Rosenamiuna's story is a wild one in the end.

So, you know, her path is right there. I agree with you, though, if she loses, it's one of the situation you're like, I don't know where that leaves Rosanamiunus. I don't know if she, I don't even think, I don't even think she has interest in going back down. I've never heard her really talking about. Maybe you've heard mention of this, but like obviously she could if she wanted to because she owns, you know, she's beat the, I guess, what I presume will be the champion again at some point in Zhang Wali a couple times. So like she could maybe still do something like that.

But ultimately, it feels like for 33 years old, it feels like she's been in this game forever. And I'm not sure how much she would want to do any of that stuff. And again, I don't, I don't, count her skill and I don't think she's over the hill. But Natalia Silva, I'm just going to say this, probably has a much greater degree of hunger. Oh, yeah. At this point, than Rose does. And that doesn't mean, again, that doesn't mean she's better, but that could make the difference in who gets their hand raised. If we can, we've got to move this along here, Chuck. Let's go to topic

number two, which is, I got to say, I saw this news and I was elated. How about this for a UFC announcement? The UFC announced featherweights Josh Emmett and the Argentine. Kevin. I'm trying to, how did B.C. pronounce it Kevin, Vachajos. Like the most gringo pronunciation ever. Kevin Vachajos will headline an That really how it's pronounced.

So I'll explain to just a second. We'll headline an apex event in March. Now, obviously, the UFC believes in the Argentine here pretty big. They're pairing him with an aging slugger. Is the answer to this pairing as simple as it puts him in the top 10 or do you read a little bit more into why they put these two together? No, not really because and also the other side of the equation, Josh Schmidt, like 40 years old, right? Like what are you supposed to do with him?

It's kind of like what we were talking about before. You've kind of seen Josh Schmidt and you kind of know at this point what his ceiling is. Obviously, like he's 40 years old. He's not going to do crazy things. So you put him against the guy, like a way younger, generationally younger guy who's coming up, you know, smoking everybody. and is kind of making his move, and you take whatever juices left of Josh Emmett's name. And, I mean, it's still a fun fight because Josh hits so hard

and always his game to go in there and mix it up. It makes for a fun fight. But I do think that it's another one of those situations where, and maybe I'm reading way into this with the Paramount Plus thing, but like on a card where you're kind of introducing a new error and you're kind of pushing these new, you're kind of pushing guys, like, you know, you're trying to push guys over who maybe we weren't paying close attention to before, that makes sense to me that you'd want a guy like Kevin, you know what I mean,

right into that top 10 because he's the one who's going to bring excitement. He had that fight. Was it, Chikaze that it was his last fight? Yeah. And, I mean, it was fairly, to me, I was like, all right, you know, I'm convinced that this guy is now going to do exactly what it looks like they're trying to get him to do, which is kind of bust in the top 10 and be a problem. And I kind of like it, because I think that you're still saying to Josh Schmidt, like,

hey, we're going to give you a dude who you're not supposed to beat, right? And sometimes that can speak to like a competitor's like, not on my watch, you know, that sort of thing. And from his motivational standpoint, you're like, well, I want to, I want to prevent this guy from taking my spot. But we know how the, we know what the UFC is thinking when they booked this fight. I don't think there's any question. By the way, on the pronunciation and again,

by the way, I don't know if I told you this. I'm now taking Spanish classes. Are you really? Yeah. Like I'm an adult learner showing up and being like, Ola, me, I'm old Luke. You know. Cuidad, abigo.

me, me, me, me gusto, Taco Bell and all that's in a bullshit or whatever, you know, like, I have to do a bunch of that and it's very embarrassing because I'm not very good at it. But the pronunciation here, I've had this like conversation a million times with other folks. There's just a million different regional accents in Spanish. And because he's Argentine, they do two L's next to each other like the letter, like the sh sound, like that's how they do it. So like, for example, the word street in Spanish is, is spelled C-A-L-L-L-E. And they would pronounce that cache. That's how they say it. So it's so it's Vashei host. That's how they do it. But I mean, you might hear his name. Like in Mexico, they would not pronounce it that way. I would pronounce it by Yehos or something other words.

Anyway, dude, I love this fight for any number of reasons, not least of which is they're both sluggers, as you indicated. The other part, too, is not for nothing. If you look at the numbers on for Sheehos, he lands 5.78 strikes per minute, which is very, very, very high. But he also absorbs 4.71. Like he puts himself right in the line of fire. Emmett is limited in his weapons, but the limits are he's either got nuclear weapons or nothing.

You know what I mean? Yes. So the consequences of getting that wrong against him can be catastrophic. To me, it's not just a place, but inside the top 10, it's a, they're asking him a little bit to problem solve. Because if you can work behind a jab, if you're patient, if you can pressure, if you can set things up rather than I, you know, I kind of just bite down and go, you, you, this is a winnable fight. I'm not saying it's a scrub, but I'm saying it's winnable for someone who is able to do those

kinds of things. And we've seen that he's got, you know, incredible acrobatic, you know, that spinning shot he landed on, on Giggochikaze was incredible. But he, you know, he takes a little bit of punishment to get there. Sometimes he takes a little bit of time to get there. This is to me, the UFC asking him graduate. Also, not for nothing, recall that you heard Laura Sanko being like, you know, there's going to be kind of like a violation, I'm paraphrasing, but that there's going to be kind of like a violence premium put on who the UFC promotes going forward. And it just feels like, look at this pairing. I'm not saying that that wouldn't have happened prior to her making these statements

about the future of the company. What I am saying is it fits directly in line with that kind of a thing. Long may it rain for the future. Yeah. I didn't see this Lorisenko thing, but that does seem semi-accurate to me, right? Doesn't it seem like that's kind of. of the that's maybe the unspoken thing with the UFC's like I even with just I think those last

year started to cut you off truck but I think I don't have the same opinion about both but I think there was enough consternation around the Hamzat fight and the Islam fight exactly in addition to other stuff too that UFC was just like what the fuck I mean so so a guy like mobs mozs are you know I just feel like that's you know the kind of treatment of a guy like that right is is in that fight in print. It's just kind of like, well, we want guys who are going to deliver again. I don't know if you ever sat in. I don't know when the UFC basically

stopped doing this, but Dana used to always gather all the fighters on a card I think around the weigh-ins essentially and tell them, you know, encourage them to go for broke to, you know, die on their shields, all that stuff. Obviously that has changed over time, but I get the sense

that that kind of mindset is returning. You know, I don't know why I said that exactly, but there's just, it's, the indication is mostly within the matchmaking. And, uh, and some of the guys that they're promoting and how they're promoting them, it just kind of gives you that indication. Like this is like, like violence at a premium is the way to say it because I feel like those kind of guys, if you're going to go in there and that's your mentality, it feels like you're going to get, uh, the rub and the guys like,

Mubstar who's been how many fights, I don't know in the UFC and doesn't have any finishes, is going to have a hard time, man. You know, I think that that's going to be the new way we look at the roster. It's not an odd. thing if you put string together a bunch of wins. It might come down to, are you, you know, Carlos Proches and like, or, you know, those guy, Michael Morales, are you going in there to destroy the guy in front of you?

And the UFC loves those guys right now. Yeah, again, I think they like both sides of the Voshejahos equation. They love the high output. And they kind of like, you know, that he fucking gets banged up a little bit, at least statistically speaking. Now, Long Island Luke, he put this in the asset rundown ahead of the show. He, long, let's bring him in. Set this up for us.

Look at the self-satisfaction. I mean, I said it was an optional clip. You could play it if you want, but I have to play this clip. I think it's more roasting BC than it is me, right? It's not roasting anyone. This was just my bold prediction for 2026 at Featherweight. All right, fair enough. Let's go.

I'm done, Rudy, against Long Island Luke's predictions. They're very good. Yeah, he's on fire. Let's go for our bold prediction. Let's go right to Noseeta. What's your bold prediction at Featherweight for the new year? this was similar to my women's ban and weight last year when I said about Holly home. Josh Emmett will headline a UFC event in 2026.

Okay. They milked this guy for all he's worth for the head. He has lost like top of my head three in a row, maybe even four. That ain't that bold, brother. That ain't that bold. So BC calls me out. It wasn't that bold of a prediction. But I mean, it did come true.

And we're only, I mean, bold or not quite accurate. I have to say, it's bald. I mean, that dude is not, but it is at the meta apex, right? And I wonder sometimes do we consider these main events still.

I know it's a main event, but like, I don't know. Whenever I see an apex event, I'm like, oh, good. I can hang it with my family tonight. That's unfortunately. That's, I'm not kidding. That's if they're on the road for a fight night, that's different. Obviously, you know, numbered event, totally different. Yeah.

You know, and I'm not saying I won't watch the apex ones live. But like, I can look at them and be like, oh, if I want to hang out with my family tonight, I can do that because ain't nobody fucking watching that shit. I will say this. You see the jet you know jack slack the uh yeah like yeah he had a hilarious tweet when dana was like yo now it's going to be the meta motherfucking apex and uh he quote tweeted and he goes genius business strategy to uh what did he say it was like a genius strategy to you know uh give naming rights to the thing we all hate you know what i mean it's so true now we got to say meta apex come i'm not i'm not

you're not going to play that game i'm not saying meta apex yeah i'm not i'm not i'm not i'm not know. That's just nothing it's going to happen on this on this show. The stadium there in Washington will always be R.FK. No, fuck RFK. It's gone. I want to know my first, this is true. My first date with my wife was at RFK. It was a DC United

game. Wow. And it was raining. And you know, I don't know if you know if you know this, but the stadium, the seats, they would bounce. And in fact, this is true. You might have seen the renderings of the new stadium they want to build on that same property. And one of the things that, has been not this is not a joke one of the things that's being requested is that they find a way to make in a safe like you know engineering controlled way to make the rows of the seats bounce and i'm like

guys i don't need that at all oh it was some of our fondest memories in uh going to games no the fuck it wasn't you were close to death stop stop promoting this shit all right oh my lord i never got to go there but that the renderings by the way just look beautiful that's one of the few stadiums I'm like, okay, they might get this thing right. They might get it right. That thing was, it was a mix between the Kennedy Center and the old RFK, you know? Yep, yep. They actually did get it right.

Oh, last thing I'm going to say on this, too, was I've seen the Nats play there. I've seen concerts there. I've saw the old Redskins play. I've seen, well, the commanders didn't play there. DC United, I've seen played. I've seen like every, I've been in every version of that stadium for however long it lasted. Dude, I lived down the street. I grew up on East Capitol Street.

So, yeah, anyway. It was a big deal back in that because those teams are so good, the Redskins teams, they were so good that you always thought about, like, their home field advantage. This is a true story. There was no, there's a metro station there now, like right next to it is what's called the Stadium Armory, which is like a facility that the National Guard runs there. In fact, I saw on Spike TV, I was there. I saw Adrian Broner on Spike TV fight Ashley Theopane.

Okay, that was a rowdy crowd. but that metro didn't exist for the longest when I grew up there. So people would just walk down East Capitol Street and throw trash in your yard. So after every Redskins game, we had to go in the yard and pick fucking trash out. Oh my God. Because there'd just be like thousands of people coming in and out. It was crazy. All right.

Let's go to topic number three if we can. UFC commentator John Anick saying something I thought was very, very interesting. Namely, well, we'll play the clip here in just a second. But how he would change the UFC product. if he had an opportunity to do so. Now, I don't want to, I don't want to spoil the answer. So let's do this, Chuck. I'll have a question for you.

Let's play this clip and let's react. Do we think that John Annex ideas are what could improve the UFC product? Where do you think the product is at this moment? A lot has been made about that. I think that just comes with the territory of getting more fans. But sometimes people say, oh, it was better 10 years ago. Or is that just something that we are going to see there'll be people in 10 years that say right now is the best moment.

You know, I think our biggest challenge is the fact that our events are way too long. And we should have 10 or 11 fights instead of 15. And even if you want to make this broadcast five or six hours and Hunter, I love you, even if you wanted to make this five or six hours instead of eight, I'd be okay with it. But we ask a lot of our fans, even fans as rabid as yourselves, eight hours times 41 Saturdays, right? So if I could affect change in one way, it would be to, and we have a lot of masters to serve, right? Television partners in different countries, a lot of different things, a roster north of 600, getting 50 fighters signed on the contender series every year, which I think is

less than ideal. But if I could affect change in one way and perhaps it's selfish because I'm a broadcaster that doesn't understand how we do back-to-back Super Bowls every time we crack a mic, I would just shut, I would cut 150 fighters off the roster. I would do 10 fights a card and just make it a much more ingestible, palatable sporting event. I don't hate these ideas. What about you? No, I don't hate them at all. And in fact, what he's asking for, Luke, is basically to go back to the way it was.

Because if you look, I can remember very specifically doing a piece on this when they started to kind of boost the cards up to 1213 fairly regularly a few years ago. And if you went back to the UFC before UFC 100 kind of going backwards, there were a lot of cards that were 10 fights, nine fights, sometimes 11 fights. And I felt like from 100 to 200, 11 was kind of the goal. You know, you'd always have like the prelims would be listed and there'd be like that one kind of outline, then there'd be five prelims and then there'd be five main card type things. Very, very easy to kind of watch all of those. But I find it extremely difficult to sit and watch 15 fights. And especially alive at an event, like from his perspective, man, God bless him.

because what they're doing is just such a herculean thing. Every time there's a 15-fight card to go for eight hours of, you know, backstories, eight hours of information, eight hours of reads, all the things that they do. That's just such a marathon. But it's a marathon, too, for us who are just spectators. Sometimes you'd get to that main event, and they would mention some of the prelims,

or you'd try to think back of the first fight on the prelims, and it would feel like it was like a fortnight ago. It felt so far away that didn't even belong to the event. that's a crazy thing to feel, you know? So I'm all about it. I just, I don't think that even the passion, like sometimes you're trying to create a passion in the room.

You want people to build towards a main event and feel like, there's times where I feel like by the time they get to the main event, people are like, it's like a marathon. They're just barely getting to the finish line. That's not ideal. You want people to be like at that point brought up to the highest moment. They've been anticipating it like in the old days.

And I think that is one way to do it. 10 fights to me is ideal. You'll do five on the prelims and five, you know, do five main card. And that's still a very long show and you get everything you need from. You don't need 15. You don't need 15 at all, except here's the problem. Every time I see one of these things, it's like, and you heard and it kind of allude to it, which is it's not hard to imagine ways in which you can make, you could, I don't know, revolutionize the product,

but certainly I think the way he put it palatable. There are ways in which you can make this more palatable. what he had recommended was going from 8 to 6 or 5 hours, reduce the number of fights to a card for 10, and then sign fewer fighters from the Contender Series. Now, I want to point out something here. Contender Series, season 1, signed 16 fighters, but in the last three seasons, season 7, 8, and 9, respectively,

they signed 46, 42, and then 46 fighters. So, like, it has taken on an outsized importance as a feeder operation to then staff the ranks of what they have. this is the problem to me. It's that the product as it currently exists for as good as it can be at times is it's not designed to be maximally palatable, right? It is designed to fulfill a variety of content delivery needs, right? So they owe partners content to begin with.

Like how many events do they owe 35 nights, they owe 13 numbered events. That's part of it. They owe for when they're on linear television, certainly this was a component and they've kind of kept the same thing, which was, yes, we've got the main card component, but then we also owe the prelims, the four-fight prelims, we owe that to a component. And then you might say, oh, you can just cut off the other part,

but you can't because those guys, you have to kind of keep active as a way to staff the larger operation to fill nearly every weekend with fights. So, like, it's built in a way so that it can be scaled maximally. That's why it's as big as it is. That's why the events are as long as they are. That's why they have as many events as possible, because they're trying to take something

and then pull it apart as much as possible to sell every piece of it. So like when he says, hey, wouldn't it be better to go from eight to five? Yes. Wouldn't it be better if we signed fewer contender series guys? Clearly. Wouldn't it be better?

By the way, he says, cut 150 guys from the roster, no doubt. But they can't do that because the contractual arrangements they've made around content length and delivery preclude that possibility. That's kind of the,

issue. It's not designed to be like, what can we do to make Fight Night a more, you know, fast-moving but cohesive experience? That's not really what it's about. It's about how do we stretch your shit out and sell it? This is why, Chuck, this is why like people like, oh, what do you want from the UFC product? The question is less about what I want and what is just even possible. This is why the move from 10 to 9 is actually a pretty big deal. It is actually one of the few things they can do without disrupting the larger ecosystem. Yes. Well, 100%. And you know, it's funny that you mention it because, yes, it's the arrangements they've made that puts them into this situation where they kind of have to hold this many fights. But it is funny because the way the UFC kind of, I guess, hatched their ideology on what they were going to do as a brand, what they were going to do as an event and as a sport was be different than boxing.

They were going to eliminate some of the ceremony of boxing. They were going to be way more efficient streamlined and how they presented it. And I feel like back in those days when they did that, that was one of the reasons it was so great. It was almost like they, you know, get those guys out of there. Let's move on to the next. But it was all within a contained amount of time. And I guess you get into whatever they were trying to avoid with boxing from before, you know, you get into your own burden, right, like of having an eight-hour event. And I mean, it's just not ideal.

Even given all the situation, even all the things that you laid out, which is absolutely true. it's just not ideal for a fan base it really isn't like you can't even retain the like you can't retain if the passion for that amount of time right like whatever your love of the sport that's a long time to be um watching an event it's just too much time it is too much time um to the point you raise about the way they used to do things back then it was them trying to solve for like how do we make this better. Oh, boxing has, you know, press conferences, for example. Like, why are, I mean, the UFC press conference

has changed over time, too. It used to be mostly just for the press. Now it's just a pep rally for the fans, which, you know, I don't like that, but whatever. It is what it is. But the reality is, Chuck, like, back then boxing used to have, like, this guy would get up there and then his manager would get up there

and then everyone takes turns of the days, and it's slow and it's painful. And then Dana was like, you know what we're going to do? I'm just going to come out there, be like, who's got the first question, right? It was this way to streamline against what you consider to be boxing's inefficiency. But because they are now, you know, I said this before, I made this, I made this point on a recent interview I did on, on, on, on, on, Josh Nason. I don't know if you know, do you know Josh?

Yeah, I didn't. I know Josh. Yeah. Yeah. And I was talking about this point, like all content, like, all content, if you go to on Spotify, uh, if you are on Netflix, the goal is just to keep you on the platform as long as possible. It's not really about like, is Netflix trying to give you the very best programming that they can develop?

No. They're trying to give you the kind of. of programming and the kind of use of the app that just keeps you on the app spotify's the same thing the design is that you just stay on the app what you listen to to them is frankly immaterial whether it's podcasting or not but the whole point is that they're going to try and find ways to keep you on the app Twitter and all the other social media apps are the same thing what they measure is time on app is not is not how much you look at any one reel it's how many reels you look at during one kind of sitting it feels like sports leagues are now trying to

do a lot of this too, where the NFL is expanding into Europe and now they're going to Brazil. And it's cool to see some kind of internationalization. But now you're starting to stretch that product in ways that just feels a little bit less palatable. And if that's the way you're going to arrange your product, it makes some of these considerations about how do you fix fans sentiment or address fan sentiment on the back end, kind of remote to me, it feels like. Now, do you still watch an event that's 15 fights deep?

Do you still watch from the very opening prelim on? I feel like you kind of do because I'll see sometimes when I'm not able to get there, I'll see that you're one of the people who actually tell us what's happening on those early prelims. Yes. So what I'll say is if it's a numbered event, I definitely watch the whole thing. Like, no question about it. If it's a fight night, I might watch the whole thing. If it's an apex event, I'll catch that motherfucker than that.

Fair enough, man. I mean, dude, I can barely, like for a for a post-fight show, I can generate a pretty respectable audience. Yeah. For fight night stuff, you know, it depends on where it is. like that UFC Qatar one, it was fine. Yeah. For an APEC, no one's watching, the Apex cards. Like, no one. The only people watching

those are degenerate, you know, dogs. And then that's it. It's true. Yeah, exactly. It's the main card minute and his friends. That's who's there. Fucking hilarious. Before we get to topic number four, let's talk about Mando. Let's talk about

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And this is something that I saw fall under the radar. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. we got to talk about it on this show. And I was so glad I put it on the rundown and you were saying if you didn't put it in the rundown and you were going to add it. Thank God you did. There was the recent in Las Vegas,

I believe, the 26 Combat Sports Officials Summit. This was hosted and I think run by legendary referee, Big John McCarthy. And during the course of this, they were talking about I poaks in MMA. And there's a couple of different things I want to reference. Put the screenshot of the, this is the article here. I screwed up is what it says,

inside the room where MMA referees sort through the good, the bad, and the chaotic. Of course, this comes from your co-worker, Ben, folks over there. We love Ben at Uncrowned. He went to this event, and there was a bunch of regulators there, including Andy Foster, the head of the California Athletic Commission. We'll talk about that in just a second. But basically, basically, Chuck, during the course of this, what Ben reports is that, A, the MMA referees recognize that the, that I poke,

in MMA are not only a long-standing problem, but an even worse problem today. And that on top of that, shouts to Big John McCarthy and others apparently along with him, he basically told the referees, you're at fault on here. You won't penalize anything. And as a consequence, we now have a culture of impunity that makes no sense. So does this prove, Chuck, that belly aching from both. donks like you and me, as well as the fan base, as well as the fan base, ultimately plays a slow but critical role in how regulatory change happens in the sport. I do think so.

And part of that, obviously, is like with social media, like, we'll see things. We've seen this for years where, like, something will happen. Like, we'll all talk about it and it moves on. But the iPogue thing is one of those issues that we've had in our crosshairs for a long time. They went through the gloves change thing where they're trying to like solve it this way. People have had different theories as to what you can do. Most people are, I feel like we've got to the point now where people are like, hey, man, you've got to penalize it. If you're not going to penalize it, it will never change.

We'll just keep doing the same things again and again. And I feel like during this particular one, that's what showed up. And it is, I think it is kind of like a peer pressure situation. Fans, media, the media talks about it. a great deal. And, you know, people are asking fighters about it more and more. And I thought it was very telling or not, maybe not telling, but it's funny, I guess, in its own way that one of the one of the great examples within the series of videos they showed at that summit was of John Jones just constantly, you know, using his hands, kind of thrusting him out with the fingers out and, you know,

how this goes unpunished and that sort of thing. We're at that point. When you have a guy like Cyril gone who puts two fingers into the sockets of, you know, Tom Aspinall, who's the champion and represents big business for you. And you're putting him now on the shelf indefinitely that it probably needs to be addressed. You know, you don't want to like, if you have a hazard, if it was any other sport and there was a hazard out there that could be avoided or at least be taken, like made to be punished a little more severely, this would be the moment, right? Like where you have a guy who we don't even know if he'll return. I know that sounds kind of like, you know, an exaggeration, but we really don't know if Tom Aspinall will return.

We hope he does. But you get into that situation, you're like, we better address it. And I feel like it had, we, the media and the fans have talked about this fairly consistently since that time. And since it's in the news, I'm glad to see that they're talking about it. And I think a key distinguishing thing within that summit was just getting rid of the intentional versus unintentional, right? Yes. That's, that's the big part of it. because for the longest time, they're like, ah, I was accidental, it was accidental.

Well, most things are probably accidental, but it really comes down to, is it a foul or not? And I feel like that's finally where they're getting down to it. Yes, as you indicated, the head of the California Athletic Commission, Andy Foster said they didn't, I mean, obviously, the stuff has to be voted on and he can't just declare what it's going to be. He doesn't have unilateral power in that sense. But to your point, Chuck, what he indicated was they're just going to get, or they're looking, I should say, looking to get rid of the intentional versus unintentional foul. and for all the reasons that we've already articulated,

which is like if someone fouls LeBron in the NBA, if it's, I mean, if it's obviously egregious, they can add a little bit extra to it. But the basic point is that it doesn't matter if it was intentional or not, for the most part, did a foul happen is the question. And if a foul happened, then it has to be penalized. I mean, we literally

got to the point where fighters were openly saying, why wouldn't I cheat? And then in fact, that they do cheat. I've interviewed multiple fighters, both on and off the record. I've interviewed Corey Sanhagen. And I asked him, have you ever like intentionally done something like yeah, of course, there was a guy that I think he was biting him or doing something. So he like either bit him back or, you know, committed some other. He didn't eye gouge, but it was some

other kind of foul just as a way to like set the tone for someone that was just something that was just going unpunished. Now, to what extent this will have effect regional MMA where you get a lesser quality of ref? I don't know. Also, I'll just say this, Chuck. You know, I do think that the answer is, does the slow accumulation of evidence matter? to MMA regulators over time and the belly aching that you see from folks like us and then the fan base, I do think that that it does, it does affect this. There is a value to it. However, what I will say is it is painfully slow, glacial, and at times insanely frustrating.

And you just can't look at that as like a, this is not an efficient way to do regulation. Yeah. You know what I mean? It has to get to like overwhelming stages before they really act. you tell me too man because like one of the problems with this is uh in a mMA attack you know you need the dexterity of your fingers obviously in the grappling game and like all of that stuff it's been very difficult basically for them to institute or you know to kind of like say like hey guys keep your fingers you know don't don't have your fingers out that sort of thing can this

happen i mean i feel like if you if you're if you're taking an automatic point especially in a 10 point my system where it matters in a three-round fight in an MMA as big as it does. I feel like fighters would instinctively keep their fists closed, don't you? Like over the course of time, even with, you know, the aspects of like maybe I need to be defending,

you know, a single leg, fingers can come out when those things happen, but I feel like the instinct would eventually take hold that you've got to have your fist clench, right? I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure. I,

when I say that, I mean it quite literally. Like, I don't know. I don't know if that's the answer. I have been of the belief that one of the things I really don't like about the way the UFC approaches this is it just seems like they don't take the technology component of it as seriously as I would have hoped, which is really weird for a company that in general, with the UFC PI, for example, leans into a lot of like scientific best practices, you know? Yeah. I think most people would think that the PI certainly at this stage anyway is really good about it.

that and I would largely agree. Everything being state of the art, everything being, you know, a leading cause of this or that. Having a glove geometry that forces it over, like for example, I've made a video about this on my personal channel, the Association of Boxing Commission has looked into it. And what they basically found was that glove geometry where it has, it curves the fingers over. These are the only ones that have statistical significance in showing reduced eye injury. Those are the only ones. And so it's like if you have this kind of evidence and you have the medical board of the, excuse me,

Association of Ringside Physicians, so you have a group of doctors being like that we think this is a good idea. And then UFC being like, yeah, we don't care. I don't get that part. I think that to me seems like a better solution or at least at a bare minimum. You have road to UFC. You have contender series. You have all these things. You have places where you don't have to affect the core UFC product where you can test this stuff out.

I would like to see more of an open, like a better attitude towards using that. Yeah, absolutely, man. Your prediction, like in terms of eye pokes, the amount that we've seen, especially Ipokes, right? Like, do you think that we see people, you know, punishing that in the new year, like, where it's like the first offense becomes a point? Do you think that we see that kind of advancement? I think the first offense thing can be a good tool.

but I think is a little bit heavy handed for most. If you've got someone who has a demonstrated history of either negligence or eyepokes, whatever, or someone who's been a unique victim to that, then I think taking the first point is important. But I think the question is not that one. The question is the second one. That's the one that I think is the most important for most people, again, in most context. If they don't do shit then, then they're doing nothing.

That is really the demarcation line for me, to be honest with you. Okay. I think that one's the most important. But I have to say heartened to be like, well, finally these motherfuckers are getting around to this shit. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's always nice because you don't never hear from them otherwise. Like these types of things or at least they're like, you know, it's like you're like, oh, there is some kind of accountability.

At least he's showing in videos and saying like, hey, we're being idiots, you know, that sort of thing. No, no. They call me when they get mad at me. That's what happens. I'll say something to be like, these people don't care. And then a bunch of regulators will call me and be like, this is totally not fair. And I'm like, I got to tell you. I think that it is.

Yeah. Is Douglas Crosby, one of those guys who gives you a ring? He won't stop fucking texting me. And every time I see it, I'm like, all right. With that out of the way, let's talk about topic number five. A bit of a boxing roundup. And as I mentioned, Chuck is going to be going to Vegas to go to Zupa

boxing number one. We'll talk about some of that a little bit, just a second. Let's start with a bit of an opening piece of news. Jai Opataya has signed with Zufa boxing, as you can see, a cruiserweight, 29 and 0, 6'2 reach of 76 inches here on the graphic. He's got 23 KOs. For folks who are MMA fans and don't really know the significance of it,

Jayaa Pataea has a claim to being the best cruiser weight in the world. I think he's the Ring Magazine and IBF champion. The other one would be Zorda Ramirez, who I think is WBA, maybe WBC, I think WBA champion. But in any event, it'd be one or two of those guys. This is interesting, right, Chuck? Because on the one hand, they're starting in the apex, starting modestly. I don't think Callum Walsh has a super bright future,

but it's maybe fine for like a first event, main event to have him in this particular circumstance. But, you know, on the one hand, they're like, oh, we're signing a bunch of prospects. They're trying to sponsor USA boxing. But on the other hand, Opataya is a no bullshit signing. He is a very, very, very good fighter, still young enough, represents Australia, undefeated as you saw, and arguably is the best in the weight class. How do you explain Zufa's ambition on the one side, signing prospects and starting in the apex? and on the other side, this is a

legit, no bullshit signing. Well, do you get like the sense, like you're mentioning, the production, you know, crew may not be just ready yet to to show everything and build everything at once as they get into a new era? I wonder, especially with the Zufo boxing, if this thing is just harder than they understood and, like, everything has been slower to develop, you know, over the course of getting this together.

Because we were talking about this last week. I mean, it felt like not knowing, the main event just a couple of weeks before the main event was so anti-counter Zufa, you know, like for the longest time we knew everything that was kind of coming up within something because the promo packages were already made.

And this one was very slow to be put together. And then you get Callum obviously is like the main event, which I think a lot of us predicted because the UFC has been behind him. I was a little surprised it was going to be at the apex because you just

mentioned it earlier. Like a lot of people don't pay attention at these events. So it almost cottons closer to like a slap fight or something like as an aside from the UFC than it does an actual unveiling of its new product. But I would say that the signal is that they intend to change that.

And maybe that is kind of where they're at with it, right? They're going to try to start rostering some bigger names, putting on some bigger fights and hopefully they get out of the apex. But that's kind of where it's at. To be honest, I feel like right now it's just kind of

You tell me your sense on it too because right now I feel like it's just been kind of a mysterious unveiling. That was the first piece. Like, you know, signing a big name to some kind of semblance of like, okay, here's a strategy. Here's what we're going to do. I think to me, you know, you saw that we can't play it because of the Rolling Stones thing. But you saw the video that came out with Dana promoting Zupa Boxing. Do you see this with Max Kellerman narrating? Max Kellerman.

Max Kellerman will, what, in the North Korea? I mean, just like. Max Kellerman just, I mean, I don't even know who he is anymore. But the point I'm trying to make is if you listen to the language, it's very ambition-oriented and like big picture and, you know, who can fix. It's almost like who's here to fix boxing, like this big, broad ambition. And I think Opitaya fits onto that side of things. Yeah. But as you indicated, you know, let me ask just a basic question.

Who is the Zufa boxing matchmaker? Who is the Zupa boxing scouts? That's a great. You know what I mean? They don't. Who the fuck are their teams? And the reason why I asked this is because I was there in Vegas, as I think I told you previously, for the Canelo Crawford card, right? And the UFC team who probably didn't want me in there, they were so overwhelmed. They were like, yeah, just go on it. We don't even give a fuck, you know, because they had the San Antonio card and Candela Crawford. Now, granted, that was the same weekend. But so is this. So, I mean, it's different days, but it's essentially the same weekend. I don't think they've even built out the internal infrastructure to make all of this work. And so I think you can see where there are, like, the eyes are on the prize, but on the other hand, this is just the reality in front of them as they slowly kind of inch their way forward. That's my sense of thing.

Did you think that they would be able to do more with the, with, you know, at this point, when they're ready to roll out their first event, did you think that it would be bigger and that they would already have more going for it at this point? Yes. But in retrospect, I don't think that it matters. I really don't. I think that. I think that, uh, One, the Ali Act changes haven't gone into place yet. True. I mean, okay, the legislation hasn't passed. It's not like it's passed. But the bill, by the way, goes to mark up tomorrow. So we'll see if and what any changes take place as a consequence.

So there's that. The other thing I would say is, again, I can't overstate this. Just to get the UFC on Paramount show ready to go, they had to take a 40-day break. you know, just to get that going. And then they want to add in on top of it, the Zufa boxing component.

There was really no way to do it other than this, to be honest with you, given the internal constraints of what they're trying to build. So at first you're like, oh, well, that's it. But then when you think about it, you're like, they're just getting started. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And I mean, the way that he's kind of laid it out, I will say that Dana has kind of, I think he's pointed this out to an extent, right? that it would be a little bit more of a slow build. They would try to build stars within their model. And they would do, I think he said, only one Zufa boxing card per month, right? So that's a pretty, that's a pretty, like, realistic way to go about it. I get, I'm a little bit anxious, I guess, to see if I can find any answers as to what's, what the plan is, all that stuff when I go out there this week and take it in.

We'll see how it all works, man. But have you been in the apex before? because when I've been in there in the past, it's just the events themselves, like without that, like a real audience, they're tough. They're tough to watch. So I'm like, it'd be very interesting now. Like, it's not even MMA. It's a boxing event.

And we'll see the crossover media, like, who's there, like, so are the fan base. It'd be very interesting to check this out. Also, it's like, don't even wrong. I think they've got some legit prospects on that card. You know, there could be some good fights. I don't, we'll see. I'm less impressed by Walsh, but whatever. Like, there could be fine.

But it's like, If you don't have fans in there, which they might, they might have fans. But if you don't have fans in the apex and you want MMA fans to watch boxing, dude, good fucking luck. Good luck. You're going to need it. That's the other thing of it to me. I'm like, it seems to me that there's like this, hey guys, come on over to this side too and check out boxing the way we're going to do.

We're going to build it like the UFC. You're going to love it. I'm not sure that this card or anything coming up in the little bit here, especially at the apex, is going to achieve that. You know, and I felt like that that's, that's another thing we'll wait and see on. But you've, you've done this. And this show is one of the few that touches on boxing and MMA. And as you see sometimes, man, there's two sides of this.

The one side doesn't want to look too deeply into the other. It's just kind of the way it's been. Also, if you're a boxing fan, it's like, oh, it's been Saudi this and, you know, grandiosity that. Yeah. This is not that, you know. Again, it makes sense for the UFC's purpose or TKO's purposes. I get it. but it's a big departure for them.

So big stakes. I look forward to your coverage this weekend. Now, other pieces of boxing news, we should note, Canelo Alvarez has announced he'll be back in action in September for Mexican Independence Day. In fact, before I ask any question, we've got Turkey making the announcement with Canelo. Let's roll that tape. Chan, wait for us in September, 12th September. Big, big, big fight.

And this will be the first card for Canelo promotion. It will be the name of Mexico against the world. All the fighters from the team of Canelo against the world. And the champion in the main event, in world title, and it will be a surprise in Saudi Arabia, in Sharia. Now, the audio is not great. Long Island, Luke, did he say that the fight was going to be in Saudi Arabia? shit i don't know i wasn't paying close enough september 12th mexico versus the world

started canelo promotions i heard all that i didn't hear where i was going i think at the end do you hear that chuck i don't want to say i make it out i just could not make it out but like that would Mexico versus the world from saudi arabia would be very strange wouldn't they're they're fucking killing the american and uk market with the shit i mean they're not killing the uk market with canello but they're killing the american market by having canelo fight over there and i saw his single DeMayo fight. It'll be in Riyadh. Yeah. I mean, this is...

Yeah, I don't think that. What the fuck are we doing? This is so fucking bad for American boxing. It's so bad for the Mexican-American fan base. It's just so terrible. That being said, if he does come back on that day, which, of course, he always fights Cinco de Mayo and then Mexican-Defendise. Anybody you think it would make a good fight for him? Well, if it's Mexico versus the world, does that exclude

David Benavides, like, because I know that David's not like a, you know, born in Mexico, but like, does that exclude? So I think Benavides is going to fight in Las Vegas on that same weekend. Okay. Obviously that fight is one of those ones people have talked about and we'd like to see. But I guess the, the be-vol match, like the rematch to that, because that first fight being what it was and it was the last time Canello lost. Like, if you're really trying to do it up big, I feel like that that might be a, a very good option. I'd like to see that fight too,

like where Canelo is at at this point in his career. And also, I also, I get the sense sometimes with Canello, even as he's getting older, a second look at somebody, you would be very interested to see how he handles himself, right? Any interest in that fight? Like, is that something on

your radar? No. Canelo is washed. He's washed. That first Bivol fight was not competitive, and he's not gotten any better since then. I don't think Bivol's gotten any worse. So to me, it's not competitive. It's funny. I didn't see him as washed in, but I know what you're saying in the last couple of fights. In that fight, I didn't see him as watched. In that fight, I saw him as

honestly, a little bit too undersized, you know? That was the problem. That was the issue. All right. Who would you like to see him face? Okay, so I'm thinking about this. So you can't, like, how washed can he go with the matchmaking? Could they do a plant or Berlanga or Mungia rematch? I certainly fucking hope not. I don't think so. honestly what I think, and this is something that was teased before, I think they're going to go Chris Eubank. Eubank killed himself to get down to those fights for Conner Ben. This would be back at a normal weight class for him.

I guess they could do 60 or 68, depending on what Connolla wants at that point, but a much better weight class for him. And it would bring, you know, it's a big enough name. It's got a UK name. I don't think it would mean much to Americans, but they'll watch Kenno no matter what. to me though it's like I think this is one of those questions about like what is even left

for Canello because I know he was like oh I want to get the I want to get the Crawford rematch but then Crawford retires and so that's really not a place it's like does he go to a place in terms of matchmaking that is I mean if he did a Burlonga rematch I would probably cry to be honest with you but could he go

Jamal Charlo big Charlo that's a possibility you know could he go Hamza Shiraz that's a tough one for me. See, that's why I don't think he does it. I think he goes Eubank, who is manageable. Reckless is a strong word, but hitable. Yeah. And, you know, has a relationship with Turkey, you know?

Yeah. That's, that's to me a likely scenario. It'd be sad, though, I guess, if Canello is, as Washington, you're saying, for that, because, like, if he's fighting, you know, in Vegas, for instance, I've been out there, when Conello is fighting, I've been in the hotel when he's at the hotel. and you see the entourage, you see the people, is such a feeling. If you're going to do a Canelo fight at this stage of his career and, you know, the writing is on the wall,

you really wish that they would put it in the United States because you're just not going to get too many of those, right? You're just not going to get too many more of those types of events that draw that kind of enthusiasm from people in the United States. No. Dude, they're putting this motherfucker in Rio. I know.

Oh, dude. It's... Now, which leads me to my last one, which is that Golden Boy had an event, I think over the weekend, but it was a one-off. And the deal between them and DeZone is off. So let me just set the table here very quickly. Top rank, American boxing promotion has no television deal. PBC, it's on Amazon, but certainly not a linear television and godoline. Like, what has the Amazon deal done for PBC?

Not nothing, but not much, I think would be the answer. And now, on top of that, you have Golden Boy. here it is. Per source, Golden Boy and DeZone have been discussing the extension of the rights deal. The contract expired three months ago, and then the event you saw on Friday was a one-off. There are no other Golden Boy events scheduled way on Friday.

The Barrios-Garcia pay-per-view that's coming up is one of Turkey. So it's not actually a Golden Boy event, and that'll be on pay-per-view as well. Dude, I got to tell you, this is to me why the pitch, I mean, people are like, how much worse could it be if Zufa boxing takes over? And on some level, it's like, how much worse could they do? you know what I mean like no this is so bad the the my retort to that would be like I thought I just can't believe people think it's a good idea to have one company who's the

dominant promoter in wrestling in MMA and boxing that to me seems like you just dystopian to be perfectly honest with you however however and just assessing the situation Chuck could you have imagined even five years ago that American boxing would be fucking erased from the American sporting landscape as quickly as it has been. I will tell you I did not see this coming. No, I didn't see it coming either. And you wonder to, I mean, the biggest issue has been, I feel like if you didn't really follow boxing and you just kind of paid attention when big fights are trying to be made, you would see this kind of like how hard it is for two guys and the same weight class from different promotions

to come together and to actually do it. And that has been, so when you're talking about Zufa boxing, I guess in that sense, if you're able to make fights without all the red tape and you're able to see them, that would be restorative, I think, to the scene. But no, to answer your question, man, I mean, there's no way that I would see, like, you know, you mentioned Golden Boy to Zone and, like, you know, some of these other ones, like a top rank with VSPN, not existing or, you know, not renewing or just kind of being in place with these to have a television deal. no, I could have never seen this coming because boxing out of everything has been kind of the more ubiquitous of the combat sports. And this has kind of been, you know, ongoing well before there was even such a thing as UFC. So to me, you know, especially with the kind of resurgent, maybe you tell me too, but like with the resurgence of the Saudi money and everything that came in, it felt like there was a little bit over 2025, certainly in

2024-25, more of an eye on boxing. Certainly people who, who I know that we're never into boxing, we're paying attention to certain events, which was a big deal in my mind. But yeah, I don't know. I feel like sometimes the fragmentation between the promotions, you know, like makes it so difficult for people to really pay attention and tune in

and somehow that that indifference starts to reach the streaming service or whatever the platforms. And you arrive in these spots, but it's a bad look for American boxing. It's a dark day in that sense. I just can't believe help. I mean, it's true. The older you get, the more you see things like this,

we were like, there's never been a year in boxing where you're like, oh, you know, boxing fans aren't complaining. I mean, 2023 was super hot, but like even then, it's like,

oh, the sanctioning bodies did this and this guy walked away from that. Like the inefficiency, of it kind of always rubbed people the wrong way. But you kind of dismiss it because you're like, you had a hot year. and 2024 wasn't exactly as good, but it was still pretty good. Or it was decent.

Then last year, things really took a different turn. And now it's like a completely barren landscape. What I'm trying to say is like this, it's like, it's very easy to dismiss Chinese water torture when the first few drops are happening. Right. But like over 20 years, Chinese water torture is unbearable. You know, it's like, it's a great point. It's just, nothing ever happens. nothing ever happens and then all of a sudden it all comes crashing down.

I've tried to make more of an effort, honestly, to embrace, you know, because so many of us in this space, there's so much going on an MMA that you just stay in that lane. But I've tried because there's so many dynamic boxers coming up. And so I've been to multiple big events over the last couple of years soaking in the atmosphere, just kind of getting to know the fighters better and stuff like that. And I was at the Boots and his fight with Chucaynesian, I think, when two. 2004 at the end in Philly. And the biggest thing was, you know, now he makes the move, right?

He's going to go fight Virgil Ortiz. That was, well, now you get into 2006. And that fight was being looked at, obviously. It was everybody thought we were going to get it. And now you get a situation where, you know, DeZone and Golden Boy, you know, he's got the lawsuit against Golden Boy, Virgil Ortiz. So it's like, does it happen? And I feel like this is kind of what fans end up dealing with,

rather than getting a fight that you think you're going to get, and maybe the one you kind of desire after watching a guy, kind of come up the ranks and what's the best fight for him next to challenge him? I feel like we're always mired in this kind of thing where it's like, nope, you can't get there. You can't get that fight. Also, like, you know, it's amazing at the beginning of the NFL season where they're like, here's the, here's the calendar.

This is all of your games. This is all the games you're going to play. Here's your by week. Here's the rest of you know what I mean? And so you have this grand anticipation, both about the start of the season. but about each week what each one represents and even for the league oh you know there's a lot commanders by the way this at the beginning of the season had like a bunch of prime time and then they didn't perform very well jaden danels is hurt half the time right and so they flexed a bunch of them but they have that capability to then you know rearrange things in a way that's even more

dynamic given the circumstances and boxing has just never really had that people have said like oh you you know it'd be better to have one dominant brand control it and my answer to that is always the same which is okay I can imagine that to be true in a world where there is significant athlete protections and that same brand is constrained in certain ways about what those protections or what they can and can't do as well as it's not the same ones giving you MMA and it's not the same ones giving you pro wrestling under that circumstance. Yes, sure. I can understand that there might be an argument with it.

The degree of inefficiency in boxing has been absolutely poisonous to it. But I mean, what can you even say anymore? The architects of it, the, what do you want to say? The people tasked with its with its perseverance, they all fell down on the job. They all fell down on the job. Is it just coincidence or is it, I don't know, symptom? Like, so Zupa boxing, we only knew it's going to happen now. It's going to happen in the, in 2026.

it's and then you see these other hubless you know promotion are is it is it one of those things you're like well they're getting into it maybe we don't want to be in it like is it the sum of that exists you know what I mean where um you know certain entities are like we're not getting a bang for the book and you know zupa boxing is kicking a zufel boxing factor into that landscape you know what I mean I'm not sure what you mean like who are the people the who would be punting well I'm saying like you know like for for the zone not to be you know not to have the partnership right?

Oh, I see. Yeah, if we're not going to see the streaming services that were doing it before with ESPN Top Rank, for instance, like they don't have a deal, right? Like, they're just, that's come to an end. But is it, does that have anything to do with Zuba boxing? You know what I'm saying?

Oh, I see. Does that, do there's one plan to the other? It might now. I don't know if it did, you know, back when some of this stuff was less clear. it's a great question for DeZone because now if you you know like do top rank hasn't had a deal for months like if de zone wanted to sign them yeah they could have just done it right yeah you know and they didn't and that to me is like a huge red flag like golden boy if they wanted to resign them

they we could be done with this already you know and it feels like we've been talking like sort of like eulogizing the you know the PBC thing for a long time I mean we'll see how this all plans out, but what a weird day. You've seen this in MMA, whereas where the, the death of a promotion, it actually takes a little longer than you might imagine. That's true. It does. They hang on in ways where they kind of just find a way to put events on and they're cutting half the budget and no one's getting paid, but the shows kind of still happen for some reason. Right. That I think, you know, you might see some of that, but like honestly, these fucking morons, these sanctioning bodies who just created infinite titles and never forced mandatories,

they really fucked up. These promoters who got greedy and didn't want to work with each other's, they fucked up. And dude, the chickens have come home to roost and now they're about to get their motherfucking lunch money

taken from them. Well, at least we got Canelo and Riyadh, baby. Yes, congratulations. Now you can watch Canelo Mungia 2 in fucking Riyadh. So congrats. All right, that's it for our top five topics. Let's transition now.

We do have a fun segment at the end planned. However, I have a doctor's appointment. So I don't know if we're going to be able to fit it in. We're going to try here. Let's see how it goes. Let's go to it's time now where the fans get to ask me some questions. You and I are you in me? It is time for DMs from dogs.

I hate that fucking sound. It makes me feel at home. It's a Denver Broncos sound. Oh, right. Well, it's a donkey. It's not quite a Bronco. Well, they call them the dogs. Okay, all right.

Here we go. Question number one from Lord Page. That's a weird ass name. What do you think will headline? UFC 327 in Miami in April, this person writes. My pick is interim light heavyweight, so Ulberg versus Prohachka,

and men's flyweight, van versus cop. So 324 is this weekend. 325 will be Volk Lopez 2. 326 is Max and Olivaura. This will be the one after that in Miami. Okay. Yeah, it's tough to predict these ones

that start to get near the White House. because I've mentioned this as a vortex because you're not sure how much talent they're going to concentrate into one thing and what that would mean to the surrounding cards through say two or three months either side right? I would be okay with the fights they've mentioned

there like that you know is Pereira just guaranteed to be out like what's his status right now? I mean I just think until we know if he's going to be on that White House card it seems foolish to add him anywhere else you know. Yeah, that's true.

I mean, to be honest, I feel like, normally speaking, you'd be like you'd have some kind of projection on this, but the way this paramount thing is, and it's kind of the abstract nature of that White House card, it's hard to say who will end up on something like that. And honestly, you know, it's kind of funny is these Miami cards have ended up being something rather important for them. Yeah. I'm looking here on the calendar. So when they last went to Miami, let's see here, that was 314. That was a great card. Yeah. That was Wolf Lopez won.

Here, you know what? Let me pull this up here. Miami. There we go. They've got... John Silva was on that one. Say again? John Silva was on that. There were a lot of good fights on that. Then they had UFC 299. That was O'Malley Vera 2. That had some decent fights on there as well. And then they had UFC 287, which was Poetan Izzy 2, which was a huge fight. Yeah.

So they've had some pretty big main events up there. And Poetan has fought there. Obviously, he's one of the bigger stars in the company. But again, to your point, I think it's the totally correct one. the USC White House card in terms of like sucking up resources both before and out it's like a black hole and it's just hard to know what's going to get pulled into the gravity you know yeah yeah next next one from as ray videos ass ray

what are the man in the hats top five favorite films wow wait you go around like do you go around with the top five like you know like that you're always like I could just cite my top five like top five no but I could go top three maybe okay man well I would have to include if you're talking about just impact right like like your life inside Star Wars the original Star Wars would be up there because that was something that was ubiquitous in my whole life like it was always there um and it's like so if I'm going down different genres too like I love the shining I like the Kubrick

version of that um god that's tough it's so metal jackets full metal jacket is awesome man I don't know if it would be in my top five but see this is what I'm saying I don't really think this way, but God. Here's the question. If you're trying to sound smart to someone, what do you say? Oh, man. The Turin horse, it's the one about Nietzsche. You remember you ever when Nietzsche was like

he broke down when he saw a horse getting whipped and beaten that's what's sent him into this kind of madness. It starts with that and then it just gets darker from there. It's a black and white film. But it was really well done. It's black and white films. They are the most brutal ass ones that they made. It was a good one.

Dude, I'm a little bit, I hate cheap action films, like, for the most part. I can't watch them. Like, I do like thought-provoking movies, you know? So I will say it like that, man. It's very tough for me to distill it down to five, but I do like that. I like movies that kind of have something more to them. And, you know, they have real direction and good acting and all that stuff. Kind of a snob that way.

You know what? I watch, I didn't do it. on purpose but I just kind of noticed over time that foreign films are a little bit the better versions of foreign films not like any old one but like the better versions they tend to have have less American movie making convention built into them obviously yes and as a concert and they tell you stories that you're not super familiar with because it's like oh what does it what does it like to be a person in this part of the world under these circumstances I don't know anything about those things

you know yeah so I've been watching a lot of Iranian movies like they're really good yeah I do They're good. Somebody's just recommended one. I don't remember the name of it. It was an accident. That's the one? That's the latest one.

That's like a dark comedy. That actually does sound right. But yeah, man, I love something. It was just an accident, something like that. Yeah. I dig stuff like that. The last one I saw was Seed of the Sacred Fig, which was they had to shoot it in Tehran in secret. Wow.

It was badass, like really, really, really good. You're one of those people I would actually take recommendations from. There's a lot of people are like, oh, you've got to watch this. you've got to watch this and you'll watch one of them and you're like, okay, I can't listen. You've lost your credibility, you know, like at some point you send me astray the first time. You mean like BC being like, dude, I liked Rise of Skywalker.

Get the fuck out of my life. You know, get the fuck out of my life. It's like the sequels were better than the prequels. Yeah, dude, anyone who's like, dude, the prequels are great. I like Jar Jarjibings. You're a fucking idiot and your parents don't love you. Okay, all right. You've been on that one for a bit.

Here's the thing, because I, this is the funny part. I've said this a million times. I'm old and I know that I'm old. I don't, how could I hide such a thing? But I was 19 when the prequels came out. I was 19. And I remember the entire country being like,

this is bullshit. These movies are terrible. They got mocked on Conan O'Brien every single night for being how fucking bad they were. And then the people who were kids at the time have now grown up been like, no, we love the prequels. You're a fucking idiot and your parents don't love you.

All right, next. from M.T. Bubele, does Chuck have a favorite hat? Well, that's an important question. Yeah, it is. And, you know, most of these are directed toward me because that graphic they did was like Chuck Mindenhaw is like a strong man. It's pretty cool. So, uh, probably, there's like a traveling Barcelona that I bought like the original one like this way back at UFC 107 at the peacock in Memphis. They had like a little hat place. I bought that. It's always been one of my favorites. But I'm not even sure I still have it. But that. At the time, I wore it a lot, and it was kind of the beginning of the man in the hat and all that stuff. So I'd probably say that one. Go full screen on Chuck here for a second. Look on the left side. If you're watching the screen, look at the hats. Yeah, exactly, on the ones over there.

Look at all that. Yeah, that kind of extends over there, too. How many hats do you have? And then there's a few more on my door over here with the Ryan Garcia gloves. I probably, like, these types of hats, I probably got like 30 of them. But I had like a deal with Boston Scali cap. Oh, I have one of those. Yeah, yeah.

So like, so they made like a. myth hat. So I've got a, I've got a, if you count those, I've got a bunch because I sell them. But like in terms of just the ones that aren't that, probably like 30. And then a bunch of ball caps, you know. Yeah. You got to cover up the bald dome.

I mean, you know. Just let it go. Why haven't you flown to Turkey? And then just, this was an Eric Nixick thing. Eric Nixick, I saw him. And it went last year. He's like, dude, you got to go to Turkey, man. You got to go to Turkey. He was all about it. He's just gotten back.

And he's got a nice, lush head of now. That can be you, brother. That could be you. It could be me. Nah, I'm not going to do it. No. I was with Sean Elshoddy, too, is also like, um, he's been bald since he was 21. I mean, it's insane. Yes. That's the only reason that truly it's the only reason I haven't got on TRT yet is that, uh, I know that you can also take medications to prevent hair loss while you're on TRT. But it's like, I don't know. No, you got a nice head of hair there. I wouldn't mess with what I'm saying. Like, I'm just going to punt on this to have some bigger muscles for a little. But it's like, I don't know. I'm just going to put on this to have some bigger muscles for a little. But it's like. I'm saying. I'm just. I'm just. I'm just bit? I don't know. All right. Next one. From Von Beck-Cal. In your opinion, boys, which MMA era would you consider the golden era? Great question. What do you think? Just of the sport. It would have to be around the time of the sale, right?

Like 2015, 2016, because you had the biggest stars at that moment, and Ronda Rousey is still around. You had Connor McGregor, and it felt like it was as big, you know, I don't want to say it was as big as it was going to get. It felt like it was still going places, but it felt so big from where it had come from. And there was just so many good fights that they were making at that time. I agree. And also, like, one thing of my,

one of my issues with the current state of MMA is that, like, in some ways it's got more cultural cachet and relevance than it ever has. But it used to be a broader more, like, it had more subcultures. It had more, it was a more interesting thing because there was more, more to it. And to me, MMA has gotten more homogenized and a little bit smaller, even though it might be in certain ways globally more popular, it's still, it's, it's less of a thing that invites more people, you know? True. But at 2015, 2016, where you're like, Rousie is at her peak popularity and like, do you remember when Rousey as good as it gets, man? Yeah.

Dude, do you remember when Roussey first came around and it was like little girls were going to UFC events? Like a bunch of them. And you were like, I saw, I saw girls crying. when she went up and signed their stuff. I was like the roped off prediction. She went over and signed and they were crying like she was the Beatles. It was amazing to see that. And I think that kind of thing is kind of lost. All right.

I think there's one more maybe. From Bucket of Chips. Luke has had a few embarrassing moments we know well. Jones Fador. I don't recall what that one was. But what have, I've had many of them. What have been some of Chuck's most embarrassing moments with a fighter? Oh, oh, like, you know, where John wouldn't answer my question.

or I had a bad interview with Fador, which by the way, is Fador's fucking fault. I mean, yeah, he's not a good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I haven't had a ton of these, which is, I'm fortunate. You know, like, and most fighters, I feel like have been fairly okay with me. But Tim Sylvia, like, and this was all because his manager at the time money cost called, like he was trying to make a point that when Tim Sylvia came to the gym, he didn't really, he wasn't that good. And he was like, oh, my God, who is this fat tub of shit?

That's what he said to me, right? It says a quote of his, not mine. Like, he's a fat tub of shit. and then as he kind of ascended and the UFC and became a champion, he's like, oh, my God, he was trying to say, like, my fat tub of shit became a champion. Like, he was trying to give him his flowers essentially like saying, like, I was wrong about this guy. He's actually that good, right?

Tim Sylvia saw that quote, a pull quote, and a piece I'd written about Bettendorf and got very, very upset by it, thinking I was calling him a fat piece of shit. And I think he was on some show, maybe Ariel's, he was on some show and he was basically, you know, kind of threatening me. But I wasn't necessarily embarrassing, but it was a little embarrassing that he didn't understand the context

of what he was looking at. Listening and reading comprehension skills are in short supply these days. Yes. But I mean, honestly, not too much besides stuff like that. Like guys getting pissed off over, you know, reasons that you're like, ah, it's not really, it doesn't matter. I mean, BC has

pissed off a lot of people. I've pissed off the whole flyway, or strawway division, right? Like, it's been kind of offended or well, how about the charlos? The charlo's cursed them out. Mike carrying him up on them. Yeah. So I've had a few of those as well.

Yeah. Is that it? Are there any more than I think that's the five? That's it. Unfortunately, we have to punt on the thing that we had tried or we're going to try today because I do have a doctor's appointment. I apologize to everyone about this.

But we'll bring it. We'll get to it either the end of this week or the beginning of next one. Chuck, where can folks find your coverage this week? What's the best place to get what you're? Yeah, I'm going to do. I'll have something in the Zupa boxing. It's going to appear uncrowned. Probably on Saturday I'll have some kind of wrap-up piece there,

and that's where all the UFC 324 coverage of mine will be as well. And of course, you can see the socials here down below. We are on TikTok, we are on YouTube, we are on IG, and then Twitter. Don't forget merch, you can go to morningcombat. Of course, the poster is available for, I think, half off or something approximating that. And then, of course, the Stranger Danger logos on everything, including the two different kinds of shirts they last until January 30. first. We will have a show later this week, but we're going to break down everything. I do have to go.

I apologize, Chuck. Safe travels, my friend. Enjoy the meta apex. That's right. And I look forward to your coverage. All right, man. Very good. For Charles Mindenhall, I'm Luke Thomas. Thank you all so much for watching. We're out of here. Until next time, may all of your gains be loyal. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.