MORNING KOMBAT WITH LUKE THOMAS AND BRIAN CAMPBELL - Zuffa Anti-Trust Case | UFC Sao Paulo: Almeida vs. Lewis Picks | Dead Wrong | Morning Kombat EP 510

Episode Date: November 3, 2023

On Episode 510 of Morning Kombat Luke Thomas and Brian Campbell break down the latest news in the combat sports world. Zuffa was denied appeal in the UFC Anti-trust case. What does this mean? Eric Nicksick wants UFC & PFL to work together to make a Francis Ngannou vs. Jon Jones fight. Is it possible? Next up the guys make their Ok, Bet picks for the weekend. As always we close out Friday with Dead Wrong. (00:13:00) - UFC Lawsuit (01:21:20) - Ok, Bet (01:41:00) - Dead Wrong Morning Kombat is available for free on the Audacy app as well as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts and wherever else you listen to podcasts.     For more Combat Sports coverage subscribe here: youtube.com/MorningKombat   Follow our hosts on Twitter: @BCampbellCBS, @lthomasnews, @MorningKombat    For Morning Kombat gear visit:morning kombat.store   Follow our hosts on Instagram: @BrianCampbell, @lukethomasnews, @MorningKombat Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Reveley, reveley, dogs. Look at us now, tip to tip. oh yeah get it it's friday november, 2023. You ain't got shit to do. Stop acting like you do. It's Morning Combat, the award-winning best damn combat sports show that they ever frigging assembled. Hey, it's Friday. I'm your boy, BC Brian Campbell, that beige bastard. The BBC with that BDE. You stay for me, but you arrive for that gentle man right there. He's 44 years old. He's from India. It's Luke Thomas. Luke, we've got a great show of Morning Combat today that,

oh, by the way, is presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. Make every moment more with FanDuel Sportsbook. Luke Thomas, how in the hell are you? I'm all right. I'm all right. It's a Friday show. It's a weird time in the sport. 2024 is going to be a weird year. I feel pretty confident saying that. But, yeah, that's it, man. Not a whole lot going on. Got some fights back at UFC.

Got some fights back this weekend. They're pretty decent. We're going to have more on that to come with OK Bet. Look at how many fighters have missed weight this morning in Sao Paulo. Yeah, fair amount. Also get into such a huge topic here. The books have opened

up in the Zufa Antitrust UFC trial that's expected to go to trial come springtime. So we've got a lot of leaked information, Luke, that's gone from redacted to john s nash approved in a very short period of time yeah well they actually have the payouts now we know exactly what people were paid uh this is not just the flat fee this is pay-per-view points this is any other

cut that they might have gotten this is what they got paid flat you said any you said any other cut any other disclosed cut, correct? Yeah, I mean, again, I don't understand the theory that it's like we're going to overpay guys and then not report it so that we can get fucked by the Ninth Circuit. Very simple. People will float any theory these days, I suppose. That's true. We'll have a lot on that today.

Also, Luke Thomas, have you chosen any sides in the great ariel versus chael war and what do you think happens if ariel should be non-intelligent enough to enter the luxor over the next 12 months i don't think he's ever stayed at the luxor certainly not anytime recently um because you're about to you're about to get some of that smoke that you keep asking for that's what i'm saying you know i'm a little surprised he gets he talks a little greasy to some of these pro fighters but uh i i don't you get the sense that chale is kind of ratcheting it up a little bit for like oh chale's been on a full-on like politician like stretch lately of communication that it's entertaining but you do have to fact check every piece of info that's yeah yeah i mean i just feel like he's out there i'm not saying that there

wasn't real beef between them there might have been a little bit but i definitely feel like there was a lot of it that was you know it was a lot of vitriol you know yeah there was a that was interesting uh ariel's like we won no francis won wait francis didn't even win luke all right he fought great though right he felt great okay that's the story there uh this is a great show that coming at you so like and subscribe special thanks to mikey more miles cbs sports on the ones and twos there's our info below and hey merch season luke thomas i mean i got it on under this great sweatshirt check this check this i don't have any on today oh you got the old classic wow look at that one hey why don't you go to morningcombat.store right now folks and you can

check out our new merch that's available this great hat um i don't know average joe art the crossover that people have been itching for hey it's all here go to morningcombat.store uh tell rj that uh you don't want to pay full price and maybe we can work out a deal on the side no i'm kidding here oh we had 10 off the other day, Luke, but come with the full price option here. You won't be disappointed. I will say so much of our merch is extra thick. I don't mean like 3C, if I could C-clamp you a little bit here, Luke. I don't mean like C-clamp thick, but like it's like, it's warm. Like, you know, some of these sweats sweat do you have the tie-dye mk sweatshirt that thing will keep you warm in the arctic circle i think i gave that to my wife to wear uh when she's like watching tv under the blankets yeah you know what i'm saying yeah oh yeah that's

so for you you've seen that onion article it's like it's like uh area woman plans to spend entirety of winter under the blankets watching TV or something. And people get on me for not showering when I work from home. It's a lifestyle choice, Luke. When did you shower last? Let's check in. I did shower this morning. So my new lifestyle choice is that because it's now cold in Connecticut,

and this morning was the first time all year I put the heat on downstairs, I am now taking showers in the morning pretending they are hot tubs,ke so my hygiene has been escalated only by my coldness okay did you brush your teeth before today's show today i did most days as you can tell by the pale the the uh the shade of yellow that i uh employ luke i don't normally okay i don't know either i definitely use mouthwash this morning although i have not showered but that's only because i'm lifting right after the show yes this hygiene update has been brought to you by fans dual sports book there's no i'm wearing my toe spacers got my toe spacers my ali brie hose luke what i do want to tell people about wow okay that's a lot of leg that you're showing here. I didn't expect.

Dirty ass feet. I didn't expect Luke Thomas in shorts with bare feet, all right? This is like you try to lure me into your hotel room under the guise of hugging that this is usually where it ends up. I had to take Barbas outside. I got dirty ass feet. Yeah, you do. Luke, here's what I wanted to tell people, though. Something important.

What was it? Was it merch? It was, oh, how about this? We got maybe, maybe the best bonus content in all of the combat sports game if you go to youtube.com slash morning combat right now later today luke i've got a fantastic chat with david benavides he'll be he'll be of course headlining the november 25th final showtime boxing pay-per-view uh against demetrius andreid he's got very interesting comments about Canelo Charlo

Caleb plan and so many more you can check that out Luke your chat with uh Kareem Zidane was incredible but then you brought out one with good old uh Dewey Cooper the lead trainer and Francis Ngannou's boxing transition here that I just thought was incredible Luke Thomas so well done Dewey is um Dewey is a smart guy. He's an accomplished guy. He had a lot of interesting things to say. Like I said on the interview, I said it to him, I cannot believe it has taken this long for us to sit down and speak with him,

but better late than never, I suppose. Did you hear his passion for saying how much he enjoys the show? But he kept saying your show. So I wasn't sure if he meant MK or if he meant the Luke Thomas Thursday live chat. It's like, Dewey, how much extra income have you been willing to throw down? Or maybe he meant MK and he thinks of you as co-host. You know, there is that as well. That's an oldie but a goodie in the MK lore.

That is an oldie but a goodie. No doubt about it. So please check out all our great bonus content chats with Oscar De La Hoya, Ryan Garcia, Kieran Fitzgibbons, Luke. Still available. Kirian. Like, Kirian Alazon down the road that I must travel. Kirian angel down the road that I must travel.

Right? Yeah. Kirian Alazon. And Kirian is actually not what they say in the song either, but it kind of sounds like it, you know? Yeah. You ever see Ishtar? That's a banger.

That's a 1980s banger. People don't know that. Yeah. I don't love 80s music, but there are bangers within that there are i mean i grew up out of like 80s music 80s music is like i won't say decidedly better than 90s because that's definitely not true but like if the opposite of love is hate i don't hate it i love a lot of 80s music i grew up with it i got mtv the first day we bought a house in 1984, Luke, May 1st, and I turned it on, never turned it off. But as much as I can appreciate a new wave jam, that that is the precursor to the indie rock genre, I wouldn't say the 80s had, even for artists that span multiple decades, the 80s is often their weakest material. It was very adult contemporary. It was very, now it's tough for me to say, coming at you from the Yacht Rock 70s here, but look, it was very soft, keyboard-esque, hollow.

Would you say? A little hollow until GNR came in and started. No, first of all, that's just definitely not true. Second of all, you had just a lot of really interesting creativity. I mean, the early birth pains of hip-hop came from the 80s, number one. It took off in the 90s, but the birth pains were there. But more to that point, BC, like bands like Tears for Fears, Talking Heads. Yeah, New Wave was great.

The first two R.E.M. albums will change your damn life, Luke. Dude, the first two R.E.M. albums are just something completely different. Some of the best 80s music, man, I really love. I'm old as old as shit you know but i was a kid in the 80s so what are you gonna yeah you were you were maybe back in black's the best 80s albums maybe maybe or maybe that's appetite for destruction or maybe you're gonna say kill them all did back in black come out because here's why i asked that 80 80 back in black was 80 i believe so i would put money on it luke okay you might be right. Here's what happened to me.

Tookie wanted to hear music from when I was a kid. That's what she said. Oh, she's great. So I put on 90s rock, like a playlist on YouTube music, and Thunderstruck came on. When did Thunderstruck come out? I believe that was in 87 or 88 off of that comeback album they had that was really good. You know what I'm talking about?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I thought all those hits were like for sure 80s hits, not 90s hits. But Ball Breaker came out in 96, right? Thunderstruck was off of Razor's Edge. 95, 96? Yeah, Thunderstruck was off of Razor's Edge, Luke. That one came out in 1990. Damn, Luke.

I didn't know that. That's what I'm saying. It came out. I was like, I don't remember that know that. That's what I'm saying. It came out. I was like, I don't remember that being a 90s hit at all, but I guess it was. Also, Crystal Pepsi came out in the 90s, BC. Crystal Pepsi, which is really the worst shit ever. Yeah. Do you know what?

Razor's Edge had that great hit they had. Come on, come on. They do the money. Money talks, right? That was badass. Yeah. That was a pretty good song. Yeah.

Hey, what a long intro. ACDC makes hits. I love Friday intros, Luke. We just roll out the balls and pretend that there's anyone waiting for us to get into combat sports, right? We're just talking about our life here. It's really my favorite part. Most people can't fast forward fast enough.

All right, let's transition here. Here we go. We're going to get into the news right now, the news that fits. It's topic number one on this Friday. Okay, Betts bet still to come all the breakdowns of this week's ufc some piu card sao pao card but topic number one is an important one in the mma space i was like i get emails about you saying sao paulo wrong like i get people getting bitter at you to me about it well get it take a number like the deli counter and get in line behind potato we're still working on transitioning off of that one, Luke.

I mean, what is it? Pareira? What is it? Padera? What is it, Luke? Again, not a Portuguese speaker, but the Portuguese speaker I ask is it's Pareira. You have to flip the tongue, but there's no Paday. There's no Pehe.

It's Pareira. Pareira. Alex Pareira. There we go go we're back at it topic number one on this friday zufa the former owners of ufc the fortita brothers and danis white denied an appeal in the larger ufc antitrust case which will not only set a trial for next spring, looking like it could be starting, but even more importantly for today, Luke, a leaked, not a leaked report, but a previously redacted report showing a lot of payouts that really came together.

Let's credit Bloody Elbow for the initial launch on this. People like John S. Nash. Who was the guy, Anton, Luke, that works there? Anton Tobuena, yes. These guys do just incredible work. Luke, here's the description from MMA Fighting, which was also early on this. The report in question was authored by antitrust expert Robert Blair.

It was commissioned by defense attorneys for Zufa to counter experts hired by a group of fighters who were suing the promotion for anti-competitive business practices between 2011 and 2016. for Zufa to counter experts hired by a group of fighters who's suing the promotion for anti-competitive business practices between 2011 and 2016. The case is expected to go to trial in April, as I mentioned, but this report was initially redacted before Nevada federal judge Richard Boulware ordered it to be resubmitted to the court without the omissions. Now, Luke, in full transparency, the information does not actually have fighter names linked with the payouts instead it's the what fight in their career path along

with the year and the payout which people like antoine anton john nash have been able to go behind the scenes and really do the work getting the best possible guess we can for who made what during this period 2011 to 2016 which featured so many big stars coming in and out from rousey gsp lesnar to john jones and anderson silva so luke as a whole what's the juiciest thing that have come out of uh this news over the last 24 hours well um so so we, by virtue of this publication, we have not complete payouts for everybody, but we've got a lot of payouts for a lot of your bigger stars. Connor, we do have all of Ronda Rousey's payouts, BC.

John Jones, we have some. Brock Lesnar, we had a couple. He made $8 million for fighting Mark Hunt. No pay-per-view points, just a flat sum. That's not bad work. That's not bad work. Juice to the gills and go wrestle a guy for three, five-minute rounds. We'll pay you $8 million. That's good work if you can get it. $3 million, I think he got for one of the other fights. Maybe Kane or something else. Maybe Frank Mir, too. I don't remember.

So we don't have all of them. We got some Anderson Silva. We got some Mike Bisping ones as well. I know some folks, let me say something up front. I know a lot of folks are like, oh, I don't want to, you know, who wants to have their pay out there in the world? Well, if it meant you got more, I think just about all of us. But to the point, like most pro athletes, you can go to overthecap.com and you can find out what every NFL player makes basically right now. You can just go look. So this is the thing that you got to remember in terms of the public disclosure of these. This is the thing that Zufa did not want, that the fighters in this lawsuit did want. We

should be clear about that. But that in general, when you get other sports, a lot of these are explicitly made public by the relevant union or player association as a way to leverage for more pay. Just want to be clear about that. The second part I would say, which is kind of interesting, is that they had to piece this stuff together, as you mentioned. So it's not altogether complete, but it's pretty interesting. The thing that stands out to me, I would say, are two things. Number one, some of these payouts you're going to look at and you might think they're not that bad.

And I want to be clear, if you're getting paid a million dollars for a night of work, and of course we know it's more than that, or two or three or four or five or six, or in the case of Lesnar, eight, it's not like you're making bad money objectively. This clearly puts you in the top 1% of earners anywhere in the country. So they're not getting completely bulldozed in a way that I think some of the worst case pronouncements had kind of made. Like, oh, they're only going to get a couple hundred thousand bucks or a million if they're lucky. Conversely, there are a lot of people who are like, oh yeah, Conor made $25 million for the Nate rematch. No, he didn't. We know exactly what he made.

He made less than $7 million for that, and that's an event that brought in $61 million. Now, I also want to say something else, BC. You might be asking, what's an appropriate amount to hand out? Well, let me put it to you with perspective. Spence Crawford sold 650,000 buys at a rate of $84.99, let's just say $85, which made that about a $55 million haul. They did a $20 million gate, so about $75 million. You might be wondering how much they would get paid for something like that, right? $7 million each, maybe $10 million each. Try $25 million each.

So if it made $75 million, it went a third, a third, a third. One to the fighter, one to the fighter, one to the rest of the house. That's basically how it would go. So when you look at these numbers, what you have to realize is the UFC is not impoverishing their higher earners. That's really not what's happening. The question is, are they in a space where they're able to fully use the market to negotiate a maximum value? And the answer is quite clearly not, right? And John Nash made a point, BC, and we really should understand this. In cases where, I don't know if it's true in the John Jones cases, but certainly in the Conor

McGregor cases and then the Rousey cases, the UFC made as much as they needed to on the gate to pay back all of the fighter costs. So anything that they actually made on pay-per-view was just gravy. They were actually able to cover and in probably many cases make a profit just from the gate, not even including the pay-per-view side of it. So it's just impossible to look at these and say that they're getting what they're supposed to be getting. However, BC, I will say one last note before we look at some of these on the screen here. You look at some of Rousey's numbers, BC. She was making $4 and I think around $5 million for some of these on the screen here you look at some of rousey's uh numbers bc she was making four and i think around five million for some of her later fights now again again here's 55 575k for the carmooch fight which did really well on pay-per-view and then by the way just to

cut you off on their carmooch's uh payout disclosed by nevada for that date was 12 000 that's the first ufc female title fight in history rousey made 500 000 on paper you can see the 575 total payout karmush made 12 000 on paper right right i want to get the i want to get the gate for that in just a second which we will but i just want to point out i will say this i don't know many female boxers making numbers like this. Now granted, I don't know many female boxers that could pull like Peek Rousey could pull. Peek Rousey could pull as good as basically anyone in the game not named Conor McGregor. I mean, she was a massive star. So she's going to get more than what an Amanda Serrano, even versus a Katie Taylor, is going to get. But of course, in her peak, she was a bigger attraction than both.

BC, I'll pitch it back to you about where you want to go from here. But that's the way that it works. And I want to say one thing about the Ninth Circuit too, if I can. For folks wondering what the deal is there, it's a little complicated to explain. But there's this idea about wage share versus wage level. How do you measure what the appropriate amount is that the fighter should be getting? Should they be getting a share of the total or should it be commensurate as a level and there's levels within the levels but as a level relative to what the larger promotion is getting the UFC

and typically in antitrust cases they do measure off wage level the plaintiffs the fighters in this case argued it should be more measured as a share because MMA is different than some of these other antitrust precedents that we're using and what Z Zuffa said is, you know what, we don't know if the judge in this case, Judge Boulware in Nevada, we don't know if he knows what he's talking about. Let's bump this up to a higher court that is much more experienced with dealing with antitrust because they're going to look at this, they're going to say, aha, the plaintiffs in this case use a methodology that we just don't see in antitrust. Let's see with the Ninth Circuit. And the Ninth Circuit didn't really give us any information.

The Ninth Circuit of Appeals, BC, and by the way, there is a Trump appointee on that court. They didn't give us any explanation. They just flatly rejected it and said, no, we're not interested, which means all of this mumbo-jumbo, what does it mean? It means there is one path left, two paths really. You can either settle or you can go to trial that's it that's it there's nothing else in the way anymore that's what the significance of that ruling means it means it's time for trial all right i got a few questions for you to kind of

put all the pieces together in a layman's sense for my own understanding of white beltness luke but for everyone else as well before we look at specifically what these payouts might mean. This is the Kung Lee lawsuit, right? That gets referred to often as the Kung Lee lawsuit. Yes, Lee versus Zufa. Are there multiple lawsuits still out there that are kind of lingering around the same topic?

So you might see that there's another lawsuit that gets mentioned with this one, which is the Cajun Johnson lawsuit. That one is still in very, very, very early stages. There is some overlap in terms of what the judge might order for discovery or information being turned over or the like. But that one is in a completely different stage. And you might be asking, what's the difference? The difference is the Kung Lee lawsuit, 2011 to 2016, any fighter involved in that case cajun johnson 2017 to modern day so they're essentially claiming the same thing but they cover two different periods one

hasn't had class certification yet one has so they're just in different stages they're they're essentially claiming the same things but for two different time periods. The one we're talking about here, Lee versus Zufa, 2011-2016. That's what we're talking about. All right. Before we get into the specifics again of the money here and what we can piece from that, is sort of the backbone of this lawsuit from Kung Lee and other fighters that have signed on, essentially saying that the UFC made so much money during the run that I was fighting that I, that what?

What's the claim in court? That I was, that I'm deserving of more or that the UFC was obviously operating in monsobstinostic ways that denied me as a fighter what I was deserved? Does that sort of, does that make sense in how this is being framed legally? Yeah, they're not saying, hey, they made so much they should have given me some. There's no legal claim there. They're claiming that they used monopoly powers that they've acquired to limit the ability for fighters to meaningfully be able to use any of their ordinary market power to generate what they should have been generating. In other words, they're basically claiming, hey, we got cheated out of money

because of the practices that this business used, which we're alleging are illegal, and we want you, the court, to weigh in to say that they're illegal so that then we can be entitled to some kind of redress or financial compensation, whatever it is that the plaintiffs are ultimately either going to settle for or ask for in court yeah very interesting stuff here so luke as we look at it do you feel like fighter to fighter payment to payment as we try to match all this up that it was more or less than you thought and assumed uh i had heard a lot of these figures privately for a long time, so it was right in line with what I had assumed. There were some that were interesting I did not know.

So I didn't know any of Brock's. I didn't know any of Michael Bisping's. I didn't, by Michael Bisping, I mean, you just look at what he sacrificed on the altar of athletic glory and then what he got paid for it. He was, you know, he didn't make what he, I think, should have made. But again, he didn't make a bad wage. The question is, did he make what he, I think, should have made. But again, he did make a bad wage. The question is, did he make what he should have made? But when you look at numbers like Conor McGregor and over nine UFC bouts only made $20 million. $20 million is a lot of money. But he probably should have had around $120 million for all of that.

You can really very, very easily make an argument that the most underpaid fighter in UFC history is Conor McGregor. In terms of what he generated, right? Let's talk about that. How do you know what he generated? Well, what were the gates when he fought versus not the gates when he fought? What were the pay-per-view buy rates when he fought versus not when he fought? That's what he generated. Of course, the UFC plays a role as well,

but if there's great variation between them, then the UFC factor there becomes something that's a little bit less noteworthy relative to the star power of the main event headliner well let's start at the top because we're all under the assumption and working theory that nobody it's not an assumption the facts tell you that nobody has moved pay-per-view buys over the course of their career like Conor McGregor who is something like nine of the ten biggest fights in ufc history in terms of pay-per-view buys he's at the top here's some notable payouts from the bloody elbow research uh luke any surprises here across the board because the 6.8 million is a lot but remember that's the madison square garden champ champ fight in which conor exited the arena saying,

you're going to do this big sale? I'm going to get a piece of this company along the way. Yeah, I mean, he got paid less than $7 million for that, which again, that's a lot of money. You might be asking, okay, what did the buy rate? The buy rate that we know of was $1.3 million. You can do the math on the numbers, but how about this, BC? The gate was $17.7 million.

Just the gate alone more than covered all of the athlete payout on this, plus they made a profit from that, plus they got whatever they got on pay-per-view. I mean, this is what I'm talking about. I would love to make $7 million, but if I'm entitled to, I don't know, $30 million or $20 million, I might feel a little bit short changed. People look at these numbers and they're like, wow, I would love to have $ 20 million, I might feel a little bit short-changed. People look at these numbers and they're like, wow, I would love to have 7 million. But what if you generated 20, 25, 30, and you only got 7? How would you feel? Now, in the end, we know the Conor McGregor story.

You see, he made money off whiskey. He got rich for life. Conor's going to be okay. But we're talking about a practice where some of the highest earners that the ufc has conor mcgregor and ronda are like basically the two biggest even they are incredibly underpaid relative to what they could get in an environment where they're actually able to fully leverage themselves their star power and the ability to negotiate properly and i remember that 205 week we were sort of going okay you know what what was

the on paper payout for connor in that fight what at that point i think it was at that point i think it was what second to what brock made against mark hunt just a few months earlier right i think the stated payout was something like one or two million something like i remember debating in that time knowing that the pay-per-view was probably very successful knowing how insanely successful that live gate was, and obviously it's Madison Square Garden. You can jack up ticket prices. This is the first card at MSG after 16 years of the sport being banned in that state.

I remember debating, okay, well, he obviously took home in the end 10 to 15 million, right? Turns out wrong, which is surprising considering the level of star power like when you show me the the mendez payout right there which was connor's correct me if i'm wrong his first pay-per-view main event right i think that's right then you understand that although that's still a lot of money and that was a huge car what was that ufc 189 potentially luke when it was uh mcgregor versus uh chad mend. But as you escalate on through there, I kind of believe that he should have or would have been paid a lot more given to where his star power was after two Nate Diaz back-to-back pay-per-views.

The second one being the biggest one at that point in company history. And then you slide into 205 and he's still only making that much. So Luke, it's really no surprise then that in 2020 john jones would be coming out and saying look you want me to move up to heavyweight i want the money that deontay wilder gets i want a guarantee of 30 million basically and let's not forget that john has only came back after francis and ganu turned down the record money for one night which we thought was around eight million million on paper, not the back end, on paper.

So it still goes to show you, well, A, that John's not a company guy here. He just finally got offered enough to come back after they were assured that Francis wasn't coming back. But I think it shows you overall, Luke, that unless there is a Nelk Boys paper bag, this could be the missing information that we have needed all along when we make these larger assumptions of what people are paid, of whether these, of whether even, forget the 99%, because the 99% in UFC is the larger problem that we have.

What about the 1%? Are the 1% getting paid up to the level that we assumed? Because I've argued long that there's more money that's being reported. Why? A because the companies during these stretches are making money left and right. B I understood the strategy of purposely releasing through the state commission, a smaller amount so that fighters never really know how, how much each other's making.

So it hurts their leveraging power. And then on top of that, why do we never, ever, ever, ever, except for Jon Jones in 2020 when he took that stand, why do we never see the 1% argue for more, stand out for more? I've always felt, Luke, it's because they are getting protected in some form behind the scenes that makes the journey that they went on to join that one percent all the more worth it and to me that is some of the whispers that we hear of oh what and again do i know if all this is has been reported to the irs do i know if all this makes sense or am i an idiot you can come out of that for yourself but do i believe have i heard that fighters will get that nelk boys bag in the back after a job well done. Rashad telling us that he got a bag full of what a million DC has said that

Luke, I think that's a common practice. And I get why you would say BC that's reckless to say they're going to have to prove it. This number we're talking about includes those bonuses. They have them noted in the, in the filings. Yeah. They have the ones that they've noted and put out there. This is less money than I assumed Luke.

This is even for the 1%. That's what's most shocking. But in this 1%, Mikey, can we go to the GSP full screen? I was shocked at how well GSP was getting paid commensurate to Jon Jones and Anderson Silva. GSP was pulling in huge pay-per-view buy-rides. Dude, look at these paydays for fights, Luke, that certainly were big and had interest. The Jake Shields fight was that Toronto card. Correct me if I'm wrong.

They had the largest attendance up to that point, the largest gate in UFC history. Obviously, the Nick Diaz one had a lot of buzz. But these are paydays that I'm shocked they're so big for these specific opponents. This is only $15 million over four fights. What guy do you know is considered an all-time great in boxing that got paid like that? Yeah, but isn't this more than the same full screens we're going to show for Rousey, Silva, Jones?

Like, why was GSP getting paid so much more on average when his pay-per-view numbers were solid? I think the Jake Shields fight did, what, 750K buys? buys I mean some of those were probably close to a million or you know he was continuously in the six to seven to eight hundred range dude that's a huge number like you're drawing a lot like that he's making like five percent of the total revenue that that event I mean remember so the Jake Shields fight was in the what was it called the the Rogers Center in Toronto? Yes, that was the record-breaking night.

Yeah, yeah, and I was there that night. I sat next to Mauro in the upper deck. They sat us both in the upper deck. You know, that gate was enormous as well. There was like 40,000 people in attendance there, which had not been done at the UFC before. I don't remember the exact number. It could have been 50. But, you know, more than the typical 20,000 you would get an arena show give or give or take it was you know about twice that size

so it's like you see these payouts dude i just want to go back are you actually still arguing after all of this that there's still money that these guys are making that is unaccounted for in these numbers after seeing the totals luke and while i I'm surprised that GSPs were so large across the board, specifically comparative to the other stars he was kind of competing against, I still think this doesn't tell the full story. Because even if this was the case, why wouldn't the 1% argue for more, Luke? This is very simple. This is so simple. I cannot believe you won't go to the Occam's razor on this.

Number one, they're trapped in a contract. Cut me, Mick. Gig me. They're trapped in a contract. Where cut me Mick gig me they're trapped in a contract where are they going to go number one number two again if you got cut a 3.4 million dollar check and you didn't get really a look at the financials and you don't you know relative to what everyone else is getting wouldn't you be pretty happy you'd be pretty I did if someone cut me a 3.4 million dollar check I'd be really happy but this is not the central question. It would certainly serve my economic interest.

If you make $15 million over the course of a couple of years, man, you can do a lot with that. It's not the idea that they're impoverishing their number one earner, or I should say their top 1% anyway, top 1% of their earners. That's not the argument. The argument is, are they making what they're supposed to be making people make the fighter pay story about the guy making 10 and 10 and 20 and 20 and 30 and 30 and by the way we got to look at habib's contract and up until the barboza fire that's what he was making 20 20 and

30 and 30 like nothing right and that is part of the story that's true but it the story is different at all the different economic ranges and at the top it's so easy to be like, oh, they're making $4 million. Who gives a fuck about them? Guys, they made a lot more than that. They only got paid $4 million. And if you can't find justice for one side of it, which I grant is the least sympathetic side. I understand that it's not the most sympathetic story for someone who's already making millions but if you can't find the the room for justice there you

can't really talk about the ones at the more working class side of it like all of it is important all of it is part of the story all of it is a bigger picture that needs to be looked at also bc i honestly cannot believe being dead, I cannot believe you think that there's more money out there that they're not accounting for after the fucking Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals told them, like, dude, if they were going to survive that, if they were going to survive the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, they would have had to have every penny accounted for. I'm telling you as your friend, it is not possible for them to have left any money

on the cutting room floor so to speak in terms of what they turned in not possible this is an existential threat to the business make no mistake about it existential they would not leave a penny off of that ledger you can you could take my what is looked at as comedic ignorance for for however you believe it and white belt me and that's fine my my conspiratorial belief shouldn't be the central part of this topic even though i inserted them in there but luke no i still believe in other things and that's fine luke i i believe there is a targeted purpose in keeping the one percent as quiet as possible and how do you do that that's true yes how do you do that luke the same thing other jobs i had where they didn't pay me well but they

gave me pizza every single Friday, right? That little fringe benefit to get me to shut the hell up about my larger roles. This is what I mean. It's like once you're John Jones and you're deep into your career and you've made some good money, like John's not poor. He's

not poor. You've made some good money. You look around and you begin to say, hey, wait a second second am i actually making all the money that i'm supposed to be making it reminds me of these artists who get signed to these record deals and then you know they get they get a big cash advance and they're happy and they're not really worrying about anything and then 10 years down the road they don't have the rights to any of their shit they owe two more albums they know they they can't get this they can't get that and they're like well dude i just signed like a deal that was not, it had some advantages for sure, pulled them out of whatever economic situation they were in, but you're asking

how do they keep them quiet? They made them quiet because in a world where guys weren't making anything like that, they were making, again, according to overall economic standards, very good money. They thought that was good, but then they wise up later like Jon Jones did and did was like wait a second you know and again we should be clear about Deontay Wilder money Deontay Wilder money means sometimes the promoter's not going to make money I mean you could even argue he's a little bit overpaid yes but BC how is it possible John Jones who has brought in millions of pay-per-view buys over the course of his career has never had a 10 million dollar payday it's wild because if you make the comparison to boxing you could make a sort of hipster smart argument and

say well look during the during the mayweather prime leading up to the pacquiao fight where it wouldn't it didn't matter who he was fighting he'd come close to or surpass that one million dollar benchmark and you say okay in these fights if he's doing over a million it's being charged at 50 a pop he's getting paid somewhere in the you know 30 to 50 million when you factor in guarantee plus back end his opponents making usually in that four to five million area maybe double if it's canelo but um but then again you can make the hipster argument that the pbc and al hayman's business model was about for the first time in boxing at that point getting the fighters paid the extra that they would deserve so the fighters

during that stretch at the highest level were probably getting more than they ever have been but still with that said luke yes now that we see these other stats behind the scenes we see how woefully underpaid in comparison and i guess you could argue well these are deeper cards you've got guys in the co-main event the kickoff from the pay-per-view that you also need to pay and that is true it's just that collectively across the board everyone's underpaid comparatively and specifically the higher end guys you just said that thing how many big fights how many big moments has john jones produced can we go to the john jones full screen Yet this is the rundown of payouts that did lead to him.

Let's not forget that three-year retirement was not fueled by arrest or necessarily fueled by it's going to take me three years to change my body. It was about here are the numbers I've made while being considered the best fighter of all time. Here is the number that Deontay Wilder just made, and I think at that point, Luke, they may have been referencing either the Luis Ortiz rematch or the Dominic Brazil fight. Two fights where Wilder got top end money and inevitably blew away the other guy.

What can you say about this when we consider that some of these fights, the first Daniel Cormier fight, for example, gosh, the Rashad fight was over a million buys and was one of those must-see grudge matches these cards were not about the undercard they were about john jones in either grudge feuds or john jones against people who we had you know serious beliefs and threats that they could win luke what do you think about these payouts no wonder he held out i'm gonna say i'm gonna say two things one in response to these payouts you have to understand something when people say oh the cards are different in mma they're stacked you know in the way they are guys the cards are arranged in the way that they are because of the way promoters have arranged fighter pay when fighter pay i should say i shouldn't when, if fighter pay changes where guys are actually

able to leverage what their worth is, cards are going to look different. How different? I don't know, but they're not going to look the way that they look. So folks being like, well, they've got this level, then they've got this level, then they've got this level, and the card is much better top to bottom. That's all arranged by virtue of how affordable it is to do that, relatively speaking. Once that becomes less affordable, you're just not going to get it. So again, people are like, oh, well then that's bad for me as a consumer.

You have to decide what you want as a consumer. Do you want something that's really great for you and potentially terrible for the people who are sacrificing their health? Or do you want a more equitable industry? And I know what some people are going to say. They're going to say, selfishly, I want something that's better for me. I understand that, but that's not really the path that I'm on. That's the first thing I'd say.

The second thing I'd say, and I do think it's right, though, when you go back to this argument about the cards are different. I actually don't know what the number would be if Jon Jones had leverage to really negotiate that money, given that some of the business is done differently in MMA. I don't know what that number is. But the point being is, even if it's well short of Deontay, but still well north of what he had been getting, the point being is, at least he would be free to leverage those forces to get something more equitable, something that rewards his effort more generally.

So if we end up being less than boxing, but more than where we are now, I'm completely comfortable with that. It doesn't need to match boxing. It doesn't need to, on a 650K buy, go 25 mil, 25 mil, 25 mil for the house and then the two fighters. It doesn't need to do that, BC. But I guess the point I'm trying to make is, whatever these numbers are, 1.2, 2.3, we know that they're less because they were created in an environment where the leverage that the guy had who signed those deals was minimal to nonexistent. That's what we know.

That's what we're trying to solve for. We're not trying to reach all these guys deserve $20 million every time. No, they definitely don't. They definitely don't. But what does it look like in a world where they have relatively even footing? That's what we're asking. All right, let's go to the Anderson Silva full screen. And Luke, I want to ask you sort of a larger question related to this lawsuit, which could hit the courts in April. And there's some of the big ones. It's a consistent run of multiple millions right there. And you can see as Anderson Silva's name grew through some of those highlight reel performances,

how much things went up. What is the realistic fallout that could happen in 2024 from this trial hitting the courts mixed with the release of this information, mixed with the larger narrative of UFC fighter pay over the past few years? I'm not sure I understand the question. Say that again. How big is this trial launching in April going to be for the future of fighter pay

and what immediate impact could it have? By the way, you see that 4.2 that he got for Cormier on like 24 hours notice? They clearly gave him a huge chunk of that and like an extra bonus to do that. I mean, it makes you wonder what usman and uh who else came in last minute for that recent abu dhabi one uh volkanovski yeah it must have been up in that high level probably a couple high level like this is my retirement egg get the hell off my back people you can understand why they may have taken it in retrospect but um so listen the chances of both sides settling has gone up exponentially.

Because remember, you could get feast or famine for either party if it goes to trial and if it goes to a verdict. I believe it's going to be a jury trial. So there's just a lot of unpredictability with that. So the likelihood that they reach some settlement has certainly increased. Does that mean they're going to reach a settlement? I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. I have no fucking idea what it's going to look like.

And if there is a settlement package, how generous it is, and maybe it's just money in the end and they don't change anything. I don't know. I don't know what that's going to look like. But you have to realize what's at stake in this trial for the UFC, for the plaintiffs too. The plaintiffs could walk out of here, by the way. Those are the fighters. They could walk out of here with nothing. Not a penny, not a change in

contract, nothing. Absolutely zero. And then you got to pay all of their lawyer fees back or something. I mean, they could truly walk out of here having wasted the last 10 years on their life on a pursuit of nothingness. That is absolutely true and it's on the table. What is also on the table for the defendants, that's the UFC in this case, is an existential threat to their business. Make no mistake about it, that is 100% a real possible threat. Is it the likeliest one? I don't know. I have no clue. But what I'm trying to point out is imagine that a trial goes through and imagine if the plaintiffs win handily. You've already seen this judge, Judge Bulwer, the district court judge in Nevada, who has seemed very sympathetic to the arguments

of the fighters in this case. Imagine that they win just like full out in every way. What would the judgment be in that case? Not only would it be in the billions in favor of any kind of financial compensation, which I do think UFC would be able to pay. I don't think that's really that big a deal. But the other side of it, which could be alterations to their business practices, making the contracts two years or less or any number of different changes and interventions they could make, this would absolutely alter the business as you understand it. Not just the Ultimate Fighting Championship, but the MMA industry more generally.

And in some ways you might like, and in some ways you might not like. I'm just trying to point out the scale of what is on the line is like nothing I've seen in all of my years in this business. This is a true, straight up, make no mistake about it, existential threat if it goes through. And more to the point, what's kind of interesting BC is beyond that, antitrust experts are actually looking at this case to see, you know, they don't really care about MMA or whatever. They just want to see what kind of implications this has for future antitrust cases and what kind of doors any sort of settlement or judgment ultimately that you might get here could confer. So the plaintiffs could walk out of here with, you know, the elephant ears in their pockets, like they're absolutely impoverished and nothing and the UFC conversely

could walk out of here with a business that you or I no longer even recognize as the ultimate fighting championship the stakes could not be higher wild wild turn events Luke I want to read to you some other recent news related to this topic and sort of piece it all together at what the future could mean so the other bit of news is from mma fighting is luke the first major financial disclosure for the tko group which is wwe and ufc uh was was filed to the security and exchange commission that's revealed information about the ufc's revenue for 2022 and 2023 uh TKO has to, as a public company, reveal this information. And during the first two quarters of this calendar year, the UFC produced $611 million in revenue

across media rights and content, live events, sponsorship, and consumer licensing. The media rights and content, which is largely based on the deal with ESPN paid out the largest revenue with 22 sorry 224.1 million in the first quarter and 211 million in the second quarter you tie into that the news you sent me I believe from John Nash's recording that essential reporting that basically says the UFC has amended the larger contract situation related to the sunset clause, which is a key part about how Francis Ngannou was able, not easily, but able to reach the end of his UFC deal. They immediately made changes after he left to that. Here are the extra latest changes.

A brand new one is here, and it's even more restrictive. Basically what it says is that if you turn down fights and the UFC doesn't think you have a legitimate enough reason to turn down said fights they can pause the five years period the sunset clause and essentially keep you there even longer luke thomas may be tied into this information may be unrelated i want to get your stance on it is the coup that could be starting within Endeavor. That Silver Lake, which owns 71% of Endeavor, is trying to overtake essentially RE and company through votes and turn the company private. I read you the stats from the first quarter to show you how insanely lucrative this joining of forces with UFC and WWE

has been with the new TKO group. This matters in the larger picture of do they have the money to pay the fighters? They're coming off like record-breaking stretches. What does this potential Silver Lake coup mean to this lawsuit, which is right around the corner? See, this part I don't have a clear understanding of. For reasons I'm not totally sure, this is my understanding. We all know the UFC business is thriving. You could say what you want about 2023, but, and again, there's been some great

fights in 2023. We should be honest about that too. But either way, they've made a ton of money, right? Because it's all contractually guaranteed. And as long as they produce the content that they're basically supposed to produce, they're long as they produce the content that they're basically supposed to produce they're basically going to make the money that they're already sort of guaranteed to get there's a little bit extra on pay-per-view obviously but you can see the media rights fees from espn are just extraordinary for some reason endeavors stock price is doing poorly but we know that the ufc business is quite healthy do you know that interrupt you do you know that the UFC business is quite healthy. Do you know that Ari, to interrupt you, do you know that Ari publicly has blamed Vince McMahon's sexual negative headlines with all the lawsuits and accusations as the reason

why the stock dipped? Which I'm sure it played a role, by the way, but it doesn't seem quite true. I don't get a sense of exactly why Endeavor is suffering the stock price. I'm sure people who have read about it more than I have can give you a sense. But I guess part of it is, listen, when you go public, there's just a lot of public scrutiny that comes with it. And I would imagine that given that there is this other Cajun Johnson trial, which, by the way, whatever resolution. And by the way, the judge wants to have this trial for Kung Lee versus Zufa, the one that's all the numbers we've been talking about here they want to have that trial in april april yo i mean okay so luke what i'm kind of asking you and i know you don't have all the details you know we're trying to pick up

all this information from those who are experts on it but when you go back from public to private is there anything in that strategic that's tied into the larger dollar value the payout the disclosed earnings all of that is that all like should we be should our nose and eyes and ears be extra tinged to that yeah i mean clearly financial secrecy is something that the people in charge were all in any company i mean this is not exclusive to ufc or endeavor any company is to the extent possible going to want to keep a lot of that stuff private. Obviously, there's some benefits to going public and getting the initial public offering and the investment that comes with that and why they kind of tolerate it.

There's reasons why you would want to, you know, there's costs and benefits to either side. And, you know, depending on your situation, you might decide one is better than the other. But it does look to me like there's a premium, let's put it, being put on Endeavor's money being kept secret. The Silver Lake folks, as you indicated, want to bring it back to a private state. And again, I think the larger Endeavor woes are probably not in any way unrelated to that. But how it relates to UFC and whatnot, if the judge orders discovery, even in a case where a company is private, it doesn't matter. They still have to turn over those documents.

The question is whether or not they become unsealed. That's another part of this case. Part of the reason why we got what we got from these numbers and Bloody Elbow being able to piece them together. And by the way, we should say, if you want to take a look at this, go subscribe to their sub stack.

I do. Stop sitting on your arroweroPlan points and get big savings so you can be somewhere you actually want to be, like on a beach. Right now, you can save up to 25% in AeroPlan points when you book a trip to one of 180 plus Air Canada destinations worldwide. So stop sitting on your next trip and start saving on one don't miss out your chance to save in points ends february 23rd book at air canada.com conditions apply um is that the judge ordered full disclosure of these of the unsealing of basically of these numbers they were they were going to be sealed and perpetrated. Like there was a way, BC, that this court case could have gone where the plaintiffs,

the fighters in this case, they tried, they got nowhere. Even if they got through discovery, everything was kept sealed. You didn't get anything as a result. Case gets thrown out and then we're done here. And that could have been a real reality that we faced. It just so happens that the one we got was one where it has progressed to where it's progressed and the judge in this case is ordering a lot of the information to be unsealed that is how we have come to this you can see why financial secrecy is very very important for very very top level executives it's very interesting uh so look tied

into this whole story and it has to be is the biggest story in combat sports, right? Francis Ngannou, right? Because he escaped the draconian nature of these to go out on his own, was reviled by UFC along the way. I don't assume, Luke, that everybody sort of has like a horse in this race of Francis versus Dana or Francis versus UFC, but it showed that there is a way

to leave and get paid more. So I want to ask you on a larger basis, look, Saudi is also part of this topic because Saudi Arabia and by extension, the UAE and the other countries of that area, which are so infused with cash and so badly want to change the public perception, increase tourism, whatever you want to say across the board, even to the level of sports washing, if you want to go there. But it's happening. It's changing. Everyone's taking the money.

Everyone's doing it. Luke, Saudi Arabia put $100 million into the PFL. And the people out there that are saying to me in the DMs, ABC, I think you should reexamine the conspiracy of fury taking money to take a fall and i don't believe that luke the only reason why i'm offering that even giving it life to it and this is separate from my own conspiratorial beliefs about big milk boy bags that some of these ufc headliners get john just tweeted you by the way i still haven't heard enough from you and john nash to completely close the door on this. Well, that's another topic for another day. But Luke Thomas, as far as this topic, some people say, Hey, look, it's

obvious fury took the fall because Francis is the face of this new operation. Wouldn't Saudi Arabia want Francis to be looking good entering the PFL, which it's now infusing. I'm not making that case, but Saudi Arabia and by extension, the other countries could could shift the balance of power in combat sports by being able to outbid everybody. So is there any danger to UFC that all of this is happening regarding the public nature of the fight fighter pay issue, which is going in some form to force change? Is it really bad timing potentially for the UFC that it's happening? You know, the same year that boxing has had its biggest year in decades, the same year that PFL with big backing is about to spin off and launch a

pay-per-view division with Jake Paul and, and Ghanu and all of that, you know, PFL just bought Bellator. Like the rest of the industry seems to be mounting up. Should the UFC fear, whether it's through their own greed ignorance or maybe through strategy of trying to let's stretch this out right the competitive advantage they have financially let's stretch it out and use it as far as long as we can

could that could could the ufc in a year not hold the same power they do now by all of this happening at once in your opinion? You say a year. I don't know what the timelines would be. Again, the fighters could go in there and just get absolutely washed in this trial, in which case none of this really becomes relevant. Even if the plaintiffs win, I don't know how long it would take for it. I mean, it's not like they're going to bang the gavel and then all of a sudden everything has to be different tomorrow there is a there is a they would by the way Zufa would appeal any um judgment that would come negatively towards them which would you know uh you know create more litigation and more time so you know you say a year from now I don't think a year from now is necessarily the issue

but let's just posit what could happen. And again, firefighters could get fucking washed. Who knows? But let's assume that they prevail and that they get the contracts changed. Only then do I really believe that Saudi Arabia could be, or let's just say the Arabian Peninsula, because it is Qatar, it is UAE, it is Saudi Arabia. They've all got sovereign wealth funds. They're all using them. I do think in that case, if the UFC has what, 80, 85% of the world's best fighters,

imagine you crack open that and now you can really much more readily feed from there to other places. I do think that would vastly re-alter the landscape. I'm not saying I'm cheering for it from the standpoint of let's break up UFC's monopolistic powers. I understand. You're just asking what could happen, right? So then we water down the sport and put more people in exclusive contracts like in boxing where they can't fight each other. That's not what I'm fighting for. I'm just wondering if this is a really, really, really bad time

for all of this to be happening to UFC. And when I say happening, I mean, they're having record number financial quarters. So it's not a bad time in that sense, but a bad time in the sense that what would be the biggest threat to ufc despite having the top fighters in the world and being the largest combat stage you can fight on maybe only separate from the biggest one per year boxing match what what would be the biggest threat to them how about sovereign wealth that are willing to invest in their partners that if the free agent market opens up more based on these court decisions,

then it's an interesting spot where the UFC could find itself in, where inevitable change was always needed and always coming down the line eventually. It seems like that eventually is now, Luke, and that's exciting. It's a little scary. There's a lot going on at once, but I did want to hit that john nash tweet you reference which isn't a jab at me it is sort of trying to dispel my conspiratorial natures here here's what he said regarding brian's secret undisclosed payments he's correct that the ufc does that but those have now been disclosed chael and dc both got one million dollar locker room payments that were not part of any contracts.

McGregor got 2.11 million. Scores of fighters get 2 to 10,000. Those were included in the data per John S. Nash at HeyNotTheFace on Twitter. Okay. I just, I mean, I know you're going to say you're stupid, you're crazy, you're wasting our time. So you're telling me that this great company has never practiced in any other lanes, Luke, that have never done things that way? If you have evidence to suggest that they've done underhanded shit,

by all means present it. The quick response for that is, well, they could get in trouble. The fighters are, basically what I'm saying is, the fighters have the incentive to never make this public because they're so happy to have received it luke as payment so that they won't fight for more publicly or disclose their payments to increase competition i know you think that's crazy but i've seen some here's what you're mistaking here's what you're mistaking you're thinking that okay so let's take let's take john jones for example who got like one five two two five i know he got more than that for one of them but you know whatever you saw the payouts let's

just say two two two million bucks what you're assuming is that they wouldn't be happy with that and it would require some other kind of uh bonus whatever that number might be another two whatever something to really make them happy aha for this bonus now i will keep quiet but you know a lot of these guys don't have great, some of them do, but some of them don't have great financial literacy. They're very young guys. They're not experienced in the world more generally.

And I think what you're looking at is, oh, there must be some other reason beyond what they're getting, which is a nice payment, but not what they maybe have earned that keeps them quiet. And I think the argument is, no, what keeps them quiet is

they're one of the very few who gets to that level at all they don't have greater financial literacy in many cases and so they're just very comfortable there that's actually doing the work not some mysterious non-traceable amount of milk boy fumbled bag cash well you know you want to keep them quiet you want to keep them happy. You want to keep them happy. I don't know. I've seen some shit, but again, it's going to wear people out. It's a topic for another day.

Eric Nixick, the trainer from MMA Sense, co-trainer or second trainer in terms of boxing for Francis Ngannou, was on the MMA Hour with Ariel Hawane this week. And I think the extension of this topic is, if the biggest fight to be made in all combat sports right now suddenly, or maybe not the biggest, I don't know, you can tell me, Jon Jones versus Zingano in MMA. I mean, that could be in a football stadium. That could be at the Sphere. It's that level of fight.

Here's what you got, Luke. What do you got? Say it. Is it Ismail Bonfim? Is this why you're upset? Go ahead and finish your point. God, fuck, man. It fucked up. Go ahead. I'm sorry. God, fuck, man. It fucked up.

Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We got to share it with the world, Luke. This is something that's really broken your heart. Bunch of fighters fell off the card for tomorrow, and it now has fucked up my okay bet. God damn it, man.

Yeah, Ismail Bonfim missed weight by three and a half pounds. His fight with Vince Pichelle, Luke, is canceled. Yeah, but it's not just that. Daniel Marcos versus victor hugo is also off the card tomorrow as well yeah they're coming after your okay bet future hopes look they want you to do last minute picks till you'll lose and you'll end up jam banding uh here's what nick six said regard to ariel on this topic he said in a perfect world for me i still want that john jones fight hell yeah i do just because i want to compete against

the best and i think john is the best i don't want any more guesses about who the baddest man on the planet is. You can make that happen. Both sides can make that happen. If they really wanted to set your egos aside, let's get a Legion stadium in Las Vegas. Let's give the fans what they want. He would go on to continue to talk up that fight and says, does a PFL UFC deal, uh, put the baddest man on the planet against one another? Yes. Let's figure it out. Everybody wants this. The fighters win, the fans win, the promoters win. Easy for Eric to say, although he's right. It's what the fans want. It's the biggest fight you can freaking make. Luke Thomas, is there any world? Because this would, I think this would

change the game more than any other. Because the working theory is UFC doesn't co-promote. They're always in the power position, but there are a lot of things changing from Francis breaking through and having this big moment, which kicks open the door to the possibility of life changing large paydays from here until he walks away from combat sports. Is there anything that we are naive to? I mentioned a Disney phone call or is the ego and

pride of dana and company behind the scenes always going to be enough to prevent this great fight from happening so as i understand i mean dan hardy had an interesting analysis, right? And Dan Hardy believed that the success that Francis had would not... His theory, his hypothesis anyway, was that the success that Francis had would not make the UFC go, aha, we should really work together with these guys, and that would be a way where we can win, they can win, and they wouldn't want to leave. And his assessment is that the UFC would take the opposite approach, that because he had

success, they're going to say, okay, well, this is now something very serious, and we need to prevent it altogether. And of course, you had previously referenced that they didn't get rid of sunset clauses, but they've added other kind of tolling provisions that make using the sunset clause much more difficult than before for the newer contracts coming out. We already know from before, they're asking you to sign away any participation in a class action lawsuit going forward as well, so things like that. So if that's really the approach that they're going to take, then I suppose it is a bit of a pipe dream, right?

I found out, BC, that a place that shall go unnamed where i used to work that um you know i i had a full-time job there and then i would do some work on the side and then they would get kind of bitter about it i'd be like well you could provide these opportunities for me and then they just wouldn't so i would keep taking those side gigs and then eventually i left that company and i found out that after i left they changed the rule so that the arrangement that i had where you could do full-time then take side stuff, they just completely eliminated that. So it seems like Hardy's assessment that what corporations do in the event that someone

shows their model doesn't work for everybody is just to make the model worse. It's just to make the model worse. That seems to be a direction that they want to go. To your point, BC, is there a way for the ufc to win here without giving away the game i do think so i do think so i think if they really wanted that it is a place they can pursue it just doesn't seem their posture is fastball every time man and i don't know it's like if that's the way in this case i will say it's like boxing there are fights that get talked about hey what if tank fought you know insert guy on the quote other side of the street

that we're always like okay knee jerk that's impossible it won't happen here are the reasons why but what is actually stopping it from happening what is actually stopping ryan garcia and tank davis from fighting this calendar year it took the fighter going back to his promoter to the zone that ryan garcia did in in fall for it no, we got to figure this out. I want this. It took, obviously, at the same time, Tank being interested. We've seen that happen in boxing a few times. So, obviously, Luke, it could happen, but I think the question is, what precedent would you be setting if it did?

Dana White and company are huge on holding those precedents so people don't follow. So the question is, well, what does Dana think about this? Luke, I don't know if you know this, but overnight he appeared with his first public comments on Francis Ngannou on Donald Trump Jr.'s Triggered podcast. I mean, you couldn't make this up, right? Really happened. Here we go. This MMA fighting aggregated it. Here's the quote from Dana. The fact that he went 10 rounds with Tyson Fury is so crazy. Francis just went 10 rounds with Fury. McGregor made it nine or 10 with Floyd.ettis just beat Roy Jones I know Roy is 60 years old or whatever but

I don't know what the hell is going on it's crazy I didn't see the fight White says but the fact that he went 10 rounds is unbelievable Luke I have more to say but I want to stop right there that's a lie right I didn't see the fight that's that's a lie yeah at a bare minimum he saw the highlights at a bare minimum he saw those all right back to show trump asked about trump jr to his credit don jr he asked about ufc fighters crossing over to boxing for big paydays and and whether naganu's infection defection excuse me hurt the promotion white according to mma fighting was surprisingly diplomatic here's his quote in in uh i don, I don't care. Listen, these guys, at some point, everybody is going to move on. Everybody has to do what's right for them and

make money for their families. So whatever they got to do, they got to do. Every time I get on the phone with one of these boxing guys, I say, what the fuck am I doing? Am I out of my mind? These guys are all horrible to deal with. Uh, Dana would close by saying, when asked by Donald about sort of corruption, he says, not even the corruption, you can't build a business off of it. The key to having something is building a business. When you talk about the NFL, the NBA, they took all these sports and created a business of it.

We did that with fighting, and it just can't be done with boxing, end quote. But Luke, Dana's saying, I can't get anything done with boxing because these guys are all horrible to deal with i mean isn't that the same thing every major ufc fighter that says about dealing with the ufc so basically he's saying i can't get done the strong-handed tactics that i'm used to because these people have leverage and are also strong-handed so listen we're we we we have worked in boxing you much more than me you, we have worked in boxing, you much more than me.

We've worked in boxing. When Dana says that there's people that are hard to deal with or old school or don't get it or whatever, BC, I'm not saying about people we've worked with, but certainly in the industry, he's not wrong, right? He's not wrong about that. Are there dinosaurs in boxing? Yes. Are there people who don't get it yes are there people who hold stupid grudges and don't want to do business the right way

yes are there selfish absolute you know cretins corrupt people in the business yes yes all of that is true but like let's take for example our experience with showtime boxing in the last year they had three 20 million dollar gates and i'm not here to do the whole bit where it's like ufc didn't have any. I'm not even going down that road. I'm just saying they got that done. Like, yes, it is difficult to do business in boxing. That is true.

But it can be done, and it can be done quite lucratively with the right kind of posture. I think what he's talking about is, you know, dude, there's a reason why Zufa Boxing never got off the ground and Power Slap did. One is very cheap and easy to control, and one is not. is you know it's dude there's a reason why Zufa boxing never got off the ground and power slap did one is very cheap and easy to control and one is not and one especially when you hit look to the to the detriment of the fighters and some except for the one percent but to the enjoyment of fans and journalists alike the UFC has succeeded through complete control by purchasing a sport that was banned from television for a couple million and putting in a lot of years, a lot of ups and downs financially, but turning it into something major.

You're not going to walk into boxing and have that same control, especially during a time where the control is kind of being lessened. And the athletes like Ryan Garcia that I said are starting to realize their worth and coming out and say, no, I'm fighting for what I deserve. Luke, would Francis versus John have to reach the anticipation level financially that Mayweather McGregor was, which was the last time Dana White co-promoted with anybody? Does it have to reach that for Dana to give in or will is this too is dana too entrenched in i can't have francis succeed because it sets bad precedents that why would he then go and set in an entirely new precedent by being willing to co-promote with promoters that he feels he's above in that regard it's

never going to happen right never i mean i i don't want to say that there's no level that i mean imagine john versus francis was so popular that we were theorizing realistically I don't want to say that there's no level that, I mean, imagine John versus Francis were so popular that we were theorizing realistically. I mean, I don't think it's this close, but let's just imagine, right? In a hypothetical scenario, let's imagine we thought with good reason that John versus Francis could do 10 million buys. Again, I'm just saying, I'm just speaking in the most absurd terms. Don't go absurd. I want to interrupt you. Not to make you upset, Luke.

I just want you to say, what do you think is the justifiable expectation for Jones versus Ngannou in the UFC's octagon for pay-per-view buys in 2024? You mean with a co-promotion with PFL? All that stuff? Yes. Yes. I think 2-5 is realistic. Damn.

Yeah. Damn. all that stuff yes yes i think two five is realistic damn yeah damn probably closer to two but i think two five is on the table okay so are we nearing the money where where if you're saying no to this you're not being like we always say the problem with ufc managers not named markel martin and i'm sure there's other exceptions but maybe we don't know about it because you never hear from these people may diaz's manager is an exception. Everyone is sort of playing ball with the UFC to keep the UFC happy, to keep their own relationship flowing, to keep their own future pay.

Like, we know that. Watch MMAI Analytics for more on that. But in this case, we always say it's the fiduciary responsibility for these managers to be fighting the UFC to get their fighters' biggest paydays. Right. Isn't it Dana's fiduciary responsibility for these managers to be fighting the UFC to get their fighters biggest paydays right isn't it Dana's fiduciary responsibility to his own company and stockholders to put on this biggest fight possible that actually look if it's true that in the streaming

era that this fight could do two million two million buys and if it's true that you could put this in Allegiant Stadium Cowboys Stadium Stadium, whatever you want to say, and sell it out and make maybe the largest gate in UFC history. When does that phone call come that says, hey, Dana, we love you, but you got involved in Mayweather-McGregor because there was stupid amounts of money available to the UFC for just saying yes? I don't think it does.

This is why the control is kind of interesting right and people have made this point to me my argument about advocating for john versus francis with pfl ufc co-promotion bc we should say one thing about that that doesn't mean that they're going to be in the smart cage or that the pfl commentators are going to be on tv no no no no no no we had Tank versus Ryan, which was technically a co-promotion between PBC and, you know, I guess Golden Boy and then DAZN and Showtime. But Showtime 100% controlled the production of that event. That wasn't Al Bernstein, Mauro, and Abner Mares on the call. It was Brian Custer at the hosting desk. You had called the prelims, like,

right? That was a Showtime thing. So it could be a co-promotion and it would be unrecognizable from a UFC paper. You could even make them wear UFC gloves. You could do any number of things where it would be utterly indistinguishable if you wanted it to be. Because there is such a completely different level of ability in terms of who can promote between PFL and UFC. I understand that completely. Fuck, now I forgot the question because I went on this goddamn tangent. Oh, the call. The call from Disney.

This is the problem with Monopoly. This is why the market is broken. It's true that they are giving up on the biggest fight you could maybe make in UFC, frankly, MMA heavyweight history. It's potentially that big, right? Francis is now a star among the stars, and Jon Jones is certainly a very well-respected, known drawing entity. This is a monumental clash, a historic one.

Yes, you're punting on that. But dude, we just read their revenues. 600 plus in two quarters. In two quarters. You know, yes, they'd be giving up a pretty significant windfall. But they're going to get a different kind of significant wind windfall because they control of every dollar the entire industry makes they make 90 they make 90 cents of it so when you have that control your incentives are utterly warped my only argument about advocating for it is very basic if you're a fan is it in your interest to ask these two

entities to work together to make not just a fight or a good same network this is actually harder to do versus ryan bc literally i don't know if it would be but john versus francis is certainly on the short list of one of the biggest fights you could ever make in mma and certainly certainly MMA heavyweight history. You are not wrong as a fan for asking promoters to make this. Do it. It's just crazy that the stance Dana and the UFC has always had, you can now use against them the stance that, oh, boxing's fucked up. They never work together.

They can't get out of their own way. They can't make the biggest fights because nobody, everybody's so greedy they don't want to work together. Well, now we surprisingly have the biggest fight you can make. And who's being greedy they don't want to work together well now we surprisingly have the biggest fight you can make and who's being greedy and doesn't want to work together it's interesting it's just it's interesting right i'm not trying to make you take sides in this and i know sometimes people are getting a little too caught up in the okay you guys are getting a little too anti-ufc rhetoric i just want what everybody wants the best fights available luke you called up with dewey Cooper and had a great chat that we talked about.

Go to youtube.com slash morningcombat to watch it in full about how they did it, but also about what's next. And that's what you asked Dewey. What would he prefer? What does he believe should be next for Francis Ngannou? Let's listen. You think Francis fights MMA in 2024?

He said he's going to do both. So we'll wait and see. let me actually let me let me ask this coach let me ask this if i may so you're just a coach right that's that you're not on the business side of it they come to you they say a name and you got a job to do however however if they did come to you and they say hey who do you think francis matches up well with the most in heavyweight boxing? The answer is any of them. We're going to devise a plan and be ready. But I definitely love an Anthony Joshua fight.

I definitely love that fight. You know, Deontay Wilder, that's a good fight also. But honestly, real champions see no faces. They're willing to fight whomever because they believe in themselves, they believe in their abilities, and they know they can make the adjustment to defeat anyone.

That's what this Tyson Fury fight was about, to show the world that Francis Ngannou can make the adjustment to defeat anyone. And we felt like we accomplished that task. Unfortunately, two people felt like we didn't, and those were those two judges. Luke, I want to ask you this, because one great thing that Dewey said all along was, this is my opinion on what could be next for Francis, but

I'm the trainer. I'm not the promoter. I'm not the manager. Markel Martin is the agent, manager, whatever you want to say, and he was on the MMA Hour with Ariel this week, and it looks like he framed it as they are expecting francis to come back in the first quarter of next year in boxing before an eventual pfl debut whether that's a hybrid fight with wilder or whether that's a real boxing match

uh they talked about with markel wanting big names what do you think is most likely what should be next for francis right around the corner to kick off because you what should be next for Francis right around the corner to kick off because you got to be you got to play on the momentum you got to get right back in there you got to play in the momentum so boxing should be next first or second quarter and then I would say MMA third or fourth quarter dude Anthony Joshua could be the perfect opponent at the perfect time right like this would be a man we're saying what about like Chisora or White and I'm like I mean you just did that to Fury i don't need you in there against chisora yeah exactly and also it just wouldn't it be more fun to see him go up against joshua even if he got washed it'd be more

fun or it'd be great wilder but if he gets what if one of those guys gets ko'd inside three rounds you'd be like holy shit let's do that again like they're just more fun they're more fun the only thing i want to say here, I support Markel. I support Francis. We've been all over this. But I'm looked at as sort of the boxing protector who's like, great job, Francis, but sorry, didn't win the fight under these specific rules that everybody hates, even though these are the universal judging rules we all deal with. Markel made the argument to Ariel that was like, I knew they wouldn't let us have it. I knew they would screw us potentially.

And then I thought maybe they would, because of the knockdown, give us the nod. I want to tell everybody who's fighting against boxing decisions, who doesn't come particularly from boxing. That's the wrong argument to take on here. That's suggesting that the judges at the end of the fight do one pride score over who won the whole fight and that they would actually be in a position to go well francis had the bigger moments and scored the knockdown he's got to win right once again folks it's a round by round 10 point must system francis did not throw enough punches per round to guarantee us larger argument on friday you want to make the argument that boxing screwed francis at least make the argument

about the actual scoring system make the argument that look i thought francis won two more rounds than the judges did and here's why in round this he threw this many like have an argument don't do the generic oh boxing had to screw the outsider that's not even how fights are judged okay like we got to get past that all right can we get past that luke um i mean i have a pta meeting at the end of this so i'm past it all right let's keep going that's that topic let's move it on here luke uh we do have okay bet right around the corner and a breakdown of this weekend with so many fighters missing away but before we get there luke i want to know are you on the hunt for a new guilt-free snack by any chance uh i'm always looking for guilt-free snacks you know me you know me i love my like um you know

zero sugar fruit punch or things like that i'm always looking for a way to get a nice taste but you know helping some of my bigger diet goals right especially when you're sitting in the eighth row luke and you know it's hard sometimes to make the smart choices after that. But how about this? How about KUDO? K-U-D-O, the official protein popcorn of the UFC. KUDO's popcorn has a revolutionary cooking method that allows each bag to have 10 grams of whey protein isolated in each bag while still tasting absolutely delicious. Yes, you heard that right. Ten whole grams of protein in every bag. And, Luke, people say, oh, BC, it's great that you can come out here and read this ad, read and act like you're all into it.

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All right, Luke, get popped into this week's head-to-head battle. So last week in OK Bet, we only did three picks for the Tyson Fury and Gano fight. But we do have an update. This is the head-to-head five-picks-a-piece loser goes to a concert that they have no want to. This one's called OK Bet. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention here, Luke,

that this OK Bet segment is brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. Make every moment more with the fine folks at FanDuel Sportsbook. Download that app right freaking now. Last week, Luke Thomas went 1-2. BC went 2-1. And the key here was predicting that Fury and Ganu would go the distance. So your updated scoreboard,ke thomas 74 78 and 4 under 500 like a bach bc 76 80 and 1 luke i'm not so good at math as we've learned from that

sat question you snuck in that time when i was h as f um who's actually winning percentage wise who's actually in first place right now uh i don't know how we're are we not counting the draws because that's the part that i don't get well you're you you have two less wins than i do yes but you have two less losses as well and three more draws so i think i don't know mike do you have a calculator can you work out we have never figured out exactly how we're counting the overall total. If we're counting total fights minus, or I should say divided by or whatever, minus the losses, then it would be me.

But if we're not doing that, I can't do the math quite in my head for this. Did you ever find yourself counting blue cars with the Shwalla, Luke, as a 90s throwback jam? They only had that one song. They were not that great that great no they really weren't they really weren't uh anyway we're pretty close and the real the real takeaway here is bc we suck we suck ass i mean we are really the most pathetic pieces of shit you could literally flip a coin and do better than we're doing but that's the name of the game boys that is the name of the game it's we're picking underdog bets we're picking a lot of different ones so our percentage isn't the key luke it's who's better than the other man in this event so i will offer you although i don't have

the statistics of who actually has a better winning percentage i will offer you the chance to go first or second here this week as we focus of course on ufc sapal we gotta figure this out a little bit because i think two of the guys I picked are no longer eligible, and I'm not going to pick one on the fucking fly. I get time to do it. So I can go... Look at angry right there.

I lost one of my fights. I'm going to go second. I'm going to go second. Okay. Actually, I didn't lose one of my fights because I didn't bite down on the bone-themed fight after all. So Luke's going to go first. The main event here is UFC Sao Paulo, Brazil, Saturday, a fight night card.

And it's, of course, a heavyweight tilt with the rising Jelton Almeida, 14 consecutive finish victories against late replacement, but big power, big name in Derek Lewis. And Luke, before we get into these picks, didn't Derek Lewis just prove Sammy Hagar's song lyric true? Which one of Sammy Hagar's song lyric? Drink Cabo Wabo, it's my tequila. I love my lady's pound cake.

Homegrown. Sorry. Sorry, Luke. I'm talking about speeding. Do you care about this at all? He went 3x the speed limit in his fucking car so derrick lewis was arrested for driving 136 miles in a 50 50 mile per hour zone in harris county for that outside of houston the 38 year old was charged with reckless driving which

is a misdemeanor charge uh he was driving an fm 2100 red lamborghini and he passed a member of law enforcement while weaving in and out of traffic making unsafe lane changes yeah that's definitely that's definitely a safe way to drive uh that's interesting he's also in this fight on saturday and before i give you my main event pick derrick lewis caught up with one shaquille majori of cbs sports.com and mk contributor fame to talk about his new contract and in a lot of ways his newfound up-motivation, upscale motivation here with the new deal at age 38. Let's hear from the Black Beast.

Oh, more motivated than ever. The UFC put their faith in me and gave me another contract, a very lucrative contract, and I appreciate them for that. So it gives me more confidence to put all my work into the gym and into the octagon to make them not regret their decision. Yeah, I mean, physically, you know, looking lean, I know a lot of people have been talking about it i just want to nip this in the bud because i know i had fans asking me about it you signed a new eight fight deal with the ufc safe to say you're here for the long haul yes for sure i'm here for

the long haul and it's crazy that 2017 that i wanted to give all this up and now it's like this i i don't even want to tell people how much i'm making now because i don't want no one to get jealous i'll get mad at the ufb for something you know they did for me so i'm not gonna luke smart financial decision to sign a uh elongated job security like deal at this age although job security is always with an asterisk because they can cut you for losses at any point or should he have entered the francis sweepstakes knowing that it could have disassociated him with the brand for a while i think um listen if we were living in a more open environment more generally, then I would say definitively he made a poor choice in terms of his financial upside.

I still think he made a questionable one. But again, I think he probably is going to make, according to how we measure the top 1%, he's probably going to make good money in that sense. So do I think he maximized his wealth? No, I don't think he maximized his wealth. But I don't think he's going to be impoverished either. And if he likes the security and he doesn't want to – I mean, listen, a lot of these guys don't want the mental headache

and the difficulties that come with carving your own path. Look at how hard it was for Francis. Everyone shit on him the entire time. He got the last laugh, but that had to be hard. A lot of guys don't want to go through that. I understand that, but that's the whole reason why you want a more, you know. Can you imagine, like, well, Canelo left Matchroom. I guess Matchroom's going to be done with him.

It's like you couldn't even fathom something like that. And, you know, Derek is not Canelo, but you get the idea. Guys go in and out of promotions all the time in boxing. It's a little bit more simple that way. All right, the FanDuel line on this main event, plus 370, the underdog Derek Lewis, minus 520, the red-hot Almeida, who's supposed to face Curtis Blades, last-minute replacement. Luke, the comments you made about the fact that as good as Almeida is on the ground,

his entries, his takedowns, maybe not always clean, seamless, and you brought up the prospect of Lewis potentially being able to time him, find that big moment, use that power that has produced the most knockouts in company history. I saw a lot of people in my DMs going, Luke was right, upset city. But Luke, it's okay, bet. I live and die on the vibes. And I love me from Derek Lewis, but I don't love him that much, dude. I'm taking Jelton Almeida as a solid-ass favorite.

I'm going to need him to be careful. I'm going to need him to be boring. I'm going to need him to drag down, exhaust Derek Lewis. And if Derek Lewis gets back up, you drag down and exhaust him again I do think Almeida has to show us in every fight from here on out a constant escalation in his striking to enlarge in the idea that we have a title you know challenger here and waiting but I think he gets it done all things considered that's my pick against the Black Beast I'm going to share your pick I'm going Jalton Almeida as well. I recognize that his entries are weak.

Wrestling from a distance is not that great, but he is athletic, and then once he gets guys down, that's when he becomes a real nightmare. We talked about it. Half guard to turtle to mount to back. He's got that whole sequence down better than just about anyone. He should be able to get this done, especially in Brazil. Give me Jalton Almeida.

Just a reminder, though, that Lewis did come back in that 33-second knockout of Rogerio de Lima. He tipped the scales in that one, Luke, at a crispy 263.5 and looked in much better shape this morning in Brazil. Lewis weighed in at 265, right on the limit. Almeida coming in at 236. So those guys are both in. We are both picking Almeida, but Luke, we teased earlier, a lot of weight issues up and down. Nicholas Dalby and Gabriel Bonfim are both in for the co-main event,

coming in under the 171 allowed limit. But Gabriel's brother, Ishmael Bonfim, missed weight by three and a half pounds, canceling his bout with Vince Bichelle. Victor Hugo, who came in on short notice to fight Daniel Marcos, weighed in at 138.5 for their Bantamweight bout, which was also canceled. Jacques Enrique was the first to report that. And also, Eduardo Moura missed weight by four and a half pounds for her strongweight clash with Montserrat Ruiz and was fine 30%. But it does appear as if she'll be able to fight.

Luke, your reaction here to a big day of missing down in that lower America? Don't know the circumstances. I believe Eduardo and her team said she got her period this week and it really fucked everything up. So I can understand that. It was a huge weight miss. Should there be allowances for menstrual cycles? I'm being serious here. Should there be allowances for the damn thing?

It's actually a good question. I really, really honestly truly don't know what the answer is there, but it doesn't make it easy for him. I do know that. Dude, I'm being serious. If I was in Ruiz's corner i would decline the fight financially she probably can't but i would not accept it under these terms you would say yo cornejo take the money and run only there's no money as wonder boy proved after michelle potato missed there's no money look just run thank you let's go to okay bet my favorite pick i'm going

to stay on this ufc card i'm going to stay in a women's matchup because I tend to do very well in these, Luke. But I'm going to keep it at the women's strawweight division. Angela Hill trying to bounce back from the loss to Mackenzie Dern, going to take on a Denise Gomez, who is coming off a big knockout of horror guy, Luke. And if we look at the updated odds of the moment from FanDuel, Gomez minus 134 against the plus 110 Angela Hill. So a very close matchup on paper, but Luke, I feel like there's just this ceiling above Angela Hill that she's a gritty, gutsy veteran. Yeah, she can push Dern, take big punishment, and not stop trying to come forward for 25 minutes,

but that was also a wide loss. I'm going to expect the younger, the more rising Denise Gomes to get it done here as a slight betting favorite in what is my pick for favorite overall. All right, so for my pick for favorite, I'm going to go against your native Lithuanian. Give me Vitor Petrino, 26 years of age, obviously Brazilian himself. He's coming off of wins against Anton Turcali,

who, you know, the pleasure man didn't exactly stand out all that great. But he beat Adolfo Bellato, who did have a good run in Contender Series in his second try. And then Marcin Praknyo, he sent him to the land of wind and ghost with an arm triangle in the third round in his last contest.

Bukowskis is certainly a grinder. I respect that he got back to this far, but I think they're putting him up against a young Brazilian phenom, but riser in this particular case, and I like Petrino to win. See, now you're getting me nervous here. You're picking the opposite of me, Luke. Petrino is a minus 245 betting favorite in this matchup, but Bukowskis, who has won four straight, including two in cage warriors after leaving and being cut by UFC and then two straight back in the octagon as a minor sorry plus 194 underdog Luke I gotta back the yellow and green and red here and I'm not talking about the Jamaican flag that'll probably get dead wrong for saying from the last episode based on

that same color pattern I'm talking about Lithuania I'm talking about the Grateful Dead sponsoring the 1992 Lithuanian Olympic basketball team Luke I had that tie-dye shirt in the late 90s, okay? I represented my people. My mom's maiden name is Vickauskas. I mean, I think that's enough. You're always like, how Lithuanian are you, BC? Luke, I'm actually more Lithuanian than I am anything else, all right? Except for French-Canadian.

I'm more of that, actually. So there you go. I'm going to go Modestus Bukauskas on vibes on flag vibes luke on loyalty to get the job done as a small betting underdog i've done the vibes thing on picks i can't hate too much who do you got for an underdog here uh i had victor vitor hugo but he is no longer going to be competing so here's what i'm going to do i'm not going to just pick one right this second and fuck my shit up. You're just going to make rules up as you go along, Luke?

Well, I mean, we don't have a rule for what happens when they fall out after you've already picked him in the middle of the show. I'll talk to Mikey. I'll get him one that he approves according to what the fair rules should be, and we'll get one in. So I had Vitor Hugo. Instead of heckling you for being a bitch, I actually am impressed by the commitment

you are now showing to this segment and the idea that at the end of the day, whether you care or not, whether I live or die or this segment does, you don't want to be around that many hippies at one time. And that gets me excited that you would push it to this level where you're like, you know what?

I'm going to order off the menu with Mikey because I can't be around these folk. I just don't want to do the scary amount of drugs I'm going to have to do to tolerate that kind of experience. Says the guy who watches a big, large man with a house filled with machine animals that he pulled out of a diner's lobby, telling me that this is the song where I pee blood and I shoot it. I cum blood. There you go. Thank you very much.

Let's keep it going here. Uh, does it go the distance or not as Luke does not have an underdog pick, but he will, we'll share it on social media for those that care. And by those that care, I mean, K Y K Y not the jelly Luke,

the man who is competing against us in his own mind on Twitter X every single week, uh, go the distance or not. I'm going to go off the menu, go to top-ranked boxing on Saturday. F.A. at Jogba, the big slugging heavyweight, is going to take on Joe Goodall from the U.K. in the main event. I'm telling you that this will not go the distance

between two slugging heavyweights. Jogba has only lost to Frank Sanchez when he was outboxed on that pay-per-view. I think he can get a stoppage here against this white fella give it give me this uh not going the distance all right so for my uh over under a distance or not i'm gonna go don't tell maze versus rodrigo nacimento does not go the distance folks forget this is a rematch nacimento already has a second round um we're gonna choke victory over him now he has gone to two split decisions in his last fights against tanner boser and elire latifi i think both those guys are probably better than dantel maize dantel maize with a record of 10 and

5 i've not been super blown away so i don't think this one goes the distance i'll take the under ko or sub is our final category and luke kayo borajo seems to be well halio seems to be something worth watching you know i'm not talking about the quality of ink on his throat i'm talking about his ability to finish be aggressive come out i don't know what to make of abu smago medoff who has been you know he's been knocked out disastrously in pfl before in the playoffs came back after a long layoff made it to the ufc he got absolutely railroaded by sean strickland could that happen again in this matchup even though boraljo borayo for boraljo has many submissions in his game luke i'm going for the knockout here i question ab Abusa's chin. I'm going to go for Kaio.

I think this is a winning formula right here. I picked a little off the vibes, a little off the common sense, a little off the women's fights. I've got a perfect menu here for success for this weekend. Luke, Kaio or sub, which direction are you going? I'm going to go, I believe I have it for a sub, yes. I'm going to go the person who missed weight, Eduardo Moura, taking on montserrat

ruiz uh ending in sub muda 9-0 sitting at 29 years of age she did miss weight but obviously coming off the contender series when she got a rear naked choke in the first round she had rear naked chokes all through the course of her career she's got some ground pound finishes as well she's the heavy favorite no matter what against Miss Conejo. And so this is a tough fight. I think Conejo's going to lose no matter what. The question is what method. I suspect she's going to get a submission in the end.

So I'll take sub. I'll take sub. Look, the only sub that's going to be part of that fight is the post-fight meal at Subway for Montserrat. I mean, come on. This is great. This is playing right into my hands. What's your order at Subway for Montserrat. I mean, come on. This is great. This is playing right into my hands. What's your order at Subway?

Meatball marinara with spinach and onions and tomatoes, Luke, and Parmesan cheese on top of the regular cheese they put down. I mean, if you have a problem with that. I can't wait to put some Parmesan cheese in yours. As Ariel said, if you have a problem with that say it to my face luke okay i will say that is a the meatball sub is a good subway order but you're putting just like you're like yo can i get some uh road salt and some banana peels and cigarette butts in that bitch too sorry luke to quote ariel directly to chill don't be a fucking bitch say it to my face grow a pair

i give you that same message that the Canadian did. That's a little strong because we're talking about Subway sandwiches, but I'll accept it. Look, if I was going to buy something a little bit more health conscious, Luke, I would certainly. There are options I like. Do you get down with my wife's go-to order every time, which is the teriyaki chicken jam they got going on? You know what I'm talking about? Too sweet for me. Too sweet.

Their teriyaki is sweet. If you're going to go to Subway, you're not going to eat for taste. Let's just be real. You're not eating for taste. You're Sean shirking it. You're Sean shirking it. So I either get the veggie patty, which is actually pretty good, or I get double meat turkey. Okay. There you go. Just a reminder

to all you great folks out there that this OK Bet segment has been brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. Make every moment more. Luke, any other comments about any other fights on this UFC card? No, because everybody missed weight in any other fight we cared about. Yeah, I mean, the fight card should be fine. It's not spectacular.

It's enough to keep your addiction going if you're an addicted MMA fan. That's about it. All right. Do you care about these other addictions that are being offered? I wanted to mention tonight on Amazon Prime or Amazon Video, whatever they were, Prime Video, one fight night 16 from Bangkok, Ray Flores on the call.

And your main event, Bantamweight kickboxing match for the vacant one championship, Jonathan Haggerty versus Fabricio Andrade. Yeah, that's a great, great fight. Great strikers. Haggerty is incredible. That, that's a great, great fight. Great strikers. Hagerty's incredible. That should be really a ton of fun.

That's one of the better things where they've got two non-UFC names. And if you know anything about what Andrade or Hagerty can do, you're probably pretty excited for this one. The inaugural one welterweight submission grappling world title will be at stake in the co-main event as Ty Ruotolo takes on Magomed Abdullakadriov, Luke. So there's that, too, okay?

It's a waste of everyone's time. Okay, also quickly in the boxing space this week, Saturday we got Joe Cordina back from the U.K., Luke, on the zone against Edward Vasquez defending Cordina's IBF junior lightweight title. We've got the Ajagba card from Lake Tahoe on ESPN+. There's another DAZN card with guys and women that you've never heard of, Luke. And then there's another Don King card from Miami, Alunga Makabu, fighting for the vacant WBC cruiserweight title. Nobody, very few people care.

Thank you. Luke, we have one more segment for you today and that's called dead wrong and that's an opportunity through morning combat at gmail.com for the people to email in and say look you guys are decent most of the week but in that moment you suck the horn you were dead wrong so shut it Shut it. Shut your mouth. Shut your filthy mouth. This one's from Skimpy Dog. Hi, Donks. At 3440 of episode 509, Luke Thomas claims that Conor fought Jose Aldo and Eddie Alvarez back to back.

And this is confirmed to be correct by BC. No, it wasn't, folks. Of course, Conor fought Nate Diaz twice between those two. And both of you washed losers are dead wrong skippy so skippy dog i heard luke say that i knew he was dead wrong but i thought you tried to amend that in real time i thought you made a mention that there were ds fights in between am i wrong luke or did you i may or may i may have said i wasn't sure or something but i definitely got the spirit of it wrong so i'll look i interrupt you enough either by accident because i'm a dildo or luke by just like hey i got you know we're in a conversation a

debate i gotta make this point i can't be cutting you off for dead wrongs too on top of that i mean what do they want from me i'm i'm really used to it at this point all right thank you very much let's hear from daz from hawaii mahal he says. During episode 508, on more than one occasion, example at 4130, BC mentions that Francis worked in the, quote, salt mines of Cameroon. I know this is pedantic, but BC, he labored away in sand quarries,

quarries, Nate Quarry, not salt mines. Either way, what an amazing journey and achievement by Francis. I love the watch along. Mahalo. It's Daz. Luke, should I accept that pedantic call out? Yes. I mean, because here's the thing.

Salt Mines is an expression you can use to mean hard labor, and that's what you did. But he's right. It wasn't technically a salt mine. It was a sand quarry. So it's a little bit different. But I know what you meant. Yeah, I mean, get off my back, Daz, all right?

Let's one more for you from Rick. At 148 of Monday's episode during HYSTS, on numerous occasions, you, I mean, I don't know who is this, you referred to staph infections as SARS, which is actually a respiratory illness. That would be me. I believe you meant MRSA, which is the deadly form

of staph. However, the bigger dead wrong was not once but twice you referred to Paulo Costa as Paulo Cruz. Dude, shout out to Paulo Cruz from Naugatuck connecticut who i haven't i might be facebook friends with him look i haven't seen him in decades boy does he get a lot of airtime on this show sorry bc you're dead wrong much love from the middle of nowhere hey dude it's antoine from alaska they say look for six eight he stood that french bastard you're

right antoine um i was dead wrong there merSA is not the same as SARS. Sorry about that. Two more for you, Luke. No, that's it, right? That's it? That's it. I think that's it. That's it. All right.

We went out with a whimper, Luke, but I promise you folks, I promise you folks that we've got great content for you. YouTube.com slash Morning Combat. Check out my interview with David Benavidez later today. Luke, should I share the lineup of names I've got lined up? They're spectacular. Please do. What do you think about a guy named Roy Nelson?

I haven't talked to him in a while. Okay. Mildly spectacular. I got Demetrius Andrade coming up. I got Shakur Stevenson. I got Alexander Usyk, Benavidez. I mean, there's some big things coming the MK way, or maybe big in my mind only.

But check out Luke's incredible interviews with Dewey Cooper, Kareem Zidane, timely shit across the board there. Also, Luke, in the process, Mikey Morms and Shaquille Majorey of getting me Mike Perry again to continue our bromance next week. You into that? I think that's a great thing. I think that's a great thing. I think that's a great thing.

That's what I got for you right there. Luke, would you say this was a good episode or sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit? Will you call Mike Perry the N-word? Just because he can or just because I shouldn't? No, you shouldn't. No, I will not under any circumstance, no. But I will ask him. I mean, we gotta find out more

about that second kid. What did he name? What is Ocean's sister's name? I forget. I forget. I don't remember. Do you think he does like normal dad stuff? Like changes diapers? I'm sure he does. I have no doubt he does.

Dude, dads who don't change diapers, your kid's going to grow up to be fucked up, just so you know. Like your kid's going to grow up to be a mess. If you refuse to change your daughter's diapers, she will inevitably end up on the pole. That's what Luke talks about. No, but just like the kind of relationship you have to be in and all the pathologies that come with it. If you're the kind of dad that's like, I don't change diapers, like you're a bad dad, just so you know. Yeah, thank you uh morningcombat at gmail.com if you want to email in anything dead wrongs fan subs any of that

bullshit luke we got a couple minutes to kill here before you get on with your life you got anything you want to talk hey any any planned interventions with me i'm i'm willing to take it what do you need one typically i i need one in this house usually about once a week from somebody luke okay what do we got going on i i am i prefer this house usually about once a week from somebody look okay what do we got going on i i am i prefer to let you live in peace if i can so that's my plan um like i said i'm gonna go to my uh nephew's baptism this week i'm very excited about that or this weekend i should say i'm very excited about that and um yeah i have a pta meeting to see how my daughter's doing so which oh gosh Got her toe spacers.

Will you get her in on that revolution? Mikey says there's a planned intervention. We can go anytime you want, BC, yeah. Mikey says there's a planned intervention for me running this show to the absolute last minute as possible. All right, why don't we get off early here? I mean, that's what everybody's looking to do anyway, Luke. Right?

You know what I mean? Just get off. Everyone's looking for the weekend, baby. Yeah, just trying to get off all right cameo.com slash Brian Campbell I'm sure on Thursday you could have paid Luke to answer a question too uh there we go um that's all we got Mikey Mormall behind the scenes that's Luke Thomas on BC enjoy the fights this weekend uh check out our great sponsors Kudo Popcorn how about the FanDuel Sportsbook who needs it you do that's all i

got to say we are out of here enjoy the weekend folks thank you