Morning Wire - The Scott Brown Interview That Changed The Story

Episode Date: September 19, 2026

Tim Rice goes behind his story on Scott Brown’s attempted political comeback in New Hampshire, joined by Daily Wire editor-in-chief Brent Scher. The two examine Brown’s return to the campaign trail, his outdated Tea Party-era messaging, and the contradictions in his pitch to voters. They also explore how the Republican Party has changed from the Tea Party to MAGA populism and why Brown’s campaign against John Sununu fell short. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Cyber attacks have changed. Most cyber recovery plans haven't. Cohesity helps you strengthen your cyber resilience. Knowing what matters to keep your business running and recovering what you can trust fast. More than 12,000 customers rely on Cohesity to secure their data everywhere, from cloud to identity, AI, and now agents. Learn more at Cohesity.com slash resilience. Cohesity, resilience everywhere. Hello, I'm Tim Rice, and welcome to another edition of Behind the Story.

So at this point, we've been doing this podcast for a number of months, and I appreciate everyone tuning in each week as I talk to one of our intrepid Daily Wire reporters, and we get the story that went into one of their big scoops, one of their big headlines. But today, we thought we would do something a little different and turn the tables. I actually did a little reporting myself recently on the campaign trail, and so I'm going to go behind the story. And to help me do that is my friend and our fearless editor-in-chief at the Daily Wire, Brent, sure. So Brent, the show is yours. Wow, this is so fun. Well, Tim Rice, the story is America needs more Scott Brown, says Scott Brown. So I think the first step to getting behind this story is getting behind the reason that we did it. Who is Scott Brown? And I mean, to get already

into a bit of your answer, why is he running in New Hampshire? Right. So Scott Brown was, some of our older listeners may remember, and I loop us into that group. He was the senator. He ran four and won the seat, the Massachusetts Senate seat that was vacated when Ted Kennedy died. Now, this was right around the time of the Obamacare fight, and this was a massive upset because Ted Kennedy was going to be the 51st vote on Obamacare. Scott Brown was this, he was a Tea Party leader. That's very important. Two things that are important there. He was in Massachusetts, and he was a Tea Party leader. And his entire campaign was basically, I will be the last vote against Obamacare. I will be a Tea Party senator. I will be your senator. And he won in kind of a

shocking landslide. His whole thing was that he was in every man. I'm Scott Brown. I drive a truck. That was his whole thing. And then his Senate career sort of fizzled out. He was obviously, he couldn't stop Obamacare and he lost in the next election. He then moved to New Hampshire, where he says that he is from, where he was born and tried to mount another Senate campaign, which was unsuccessful. He was an early Trump supporter and was named ambassador to New Zealand in the first Trump administration, and then went back in the private sector. But he's now running again in New Hampshire,

and the whole reason that this story even started is that he released one of the first AI ads of this cycle. He was in the Republican primary running against John E. Sununu, the son, and brother of two former governors of the state of New Hampshire. And he released this AI ad of him beating up John Sununu in a boxing ring. A different program commented that I thought that ad was a smart use of AI. It got written up in a local New Hampshire paper. The Brown campaign saw it. They reached out to me and said, do you want to interview the candidate?

And of course, I said, yes, I lived in New England. I lived in Massachusetts during the Brown campaign. Scott Brown is a legend. I was excited to talk to him. I was excited to hear for him. And so that's how we got the interview. Yeah, and I remember this, and I actually remember the day that you called me

to tell me that Scott Brown wanted to speak with you. And we were both so excited because Scott Brown was, he ran one of the most legendary Tea Party campaigns of that whole political era. And, I mean, of course you say yes. So we go into the interview. And I just want to make this clear. you thought you were going to write a very positive story about Scott Brown's next attempt at a revival.

And there are a lot of things going on in the country that are, I wouldn't call them parallels, but it was just, it was interesting for you to digest what Scott Brown was doing today. And that's why we took it. Yeah, exactly right. And again, to your point, I assumed it would be positive, not a puff piece by any means. I don't particularly with due respect to the people of the Granite State, I don't really care what happens in New Hampshire Republican primaries. I don't have any skin in that game. But yeah, I mean, Scott Brown emerged out of a massive moment of change in the Republican Party, a moment of a populist shift from the kind of Bush-Ragan consensus to what was then the Tea Party.

This is when we also got folks like Ted Cruz, Rand Paul. And now, of course, it's a similar moment in that, you know, the Republican Party is being. challenged, you know, is it J.D. Vance the future is Marker Rubio. There are these populist elements, but of course, maga populism is very different from Tea Party populism in a lot of ways. They're less suspicious of big government. They're more willing to pay taxes if it's for government programs, like things they support, like incentivizing people to have kids. So I was very interested not just to, again, talk about this man who is still in the arena, this man who really wants to keep running for Senate, really wants to serve an elected office, but also to get his take on

how populism in the Republican Party and conservative movement has shifted in the 15 years since he first ran for the Senate. And then you met Scott Brown, and there's a line I'd like to read from your story. It comes after a description of how Brown positioned himself the last time he ran. He positioned himself as a crisis candidate. elect Scott Brown, Scott Brown will be the one to take down Obamacare. And now he was doing the same thing. He's saying if you elect Scott Brown, Scott Brown will be the candidate in New Hampshire. And New Hampshire will be that pivotal state that keeps the Senate for Republicans, which may be true, but isn't entirely true.

And you had a line that is just very memorable to me. You say like a high school, quarterback with dreams of walking on the college team, Brown is convinced that he's just moments away from reclaiming the glory days that maybe never were. Tell me a little bit about what's behind that. Yeah, I was, I mean, it's exactly what you said. The interview that I had with him, we talked for about 30 to 40 minutes, and I was shocked. Not only did he not have answers to my questions about how things had changed and lessons he learned from his. past campaign, which, you know, is disappointing, but a little bit to be expected, right? He's a politician. He was in a tough primary. He wants to give a polished interview. Maybe he doesn't

necessarily want to ruminate on the shifting Republican Party. He put, he didn't even have a new message. Every single word out of his mouth could have been lifted from a transcript of a campaign rally he held in 2011, which to your point, right? I mean, sure, maybe New Hampshire would be the pivotal vote in that it's a slim majority in the Senate for Republicans, any of these states that have a senator up for election in the midterms could be the pivotal vote. But that was a very unique set of circumstances, right? The Kennedy seat, as they called it, was the Democrats' message was get a Democrat in and we get Obamacare. Republicans' message was get a Republican in and we can stop it. Like, the eyes of the

nation were on that special election. Massachusetts and the junior senator from Massachusetts was going to become one way or the other, an important player in this massive legislative debate. So the two things that I was trying to capture in that sentence are one, that's obviously not what's happening now, right? So Brown kept telling me, you know, I'm going to be that last vote again. I'm going to be the one who stands up. It wasn't clear what he was standing up to, right? If elected, he'll have two more years of a Trump presidency, hopefully a Republican majority. There was no legislative crisis. But the other thing, and I sort of alluded to this earlier, was Scott Brown was actually very ineffective in what he campaigned to do. Now, it wasn't entirely his fault. Obviously, this is how the Senate was. works, legislation gets passed, deals get made, Supreme Court rulings come down. But again, as I said, Scott Brown famously did not stop Obamacare. And he lost two years later that Massachusetts

sent its seat to Elizabeth Warren, whose whole campaign was based on, all right, I know that you were all afraid of Obamacare, so you elected this guy, but, you know, that's done. Obamacare's a thing. Don't you want to pay less? Don't you hate the banks? This is the middle of the financial crisis. So in a way, it's not just that he failed at his stated objective. There's also an argument to be made that he paved the way for an even more liberal senator who is now an even more liberal progressive player in the Democratic Party than if Martha Coakley, the former Attorney General of Massachusetts, who would run against them. There's a universe in which Martha Coakley is now in her fifth term in the Senate,

and Elizabeth Warren is still in teaching antitrust at Harvard, and the Democratic Party looks a lot different. Yeah, I mean, you bring up an interesting point there that I think is reflected well in your piece, that Scott Brown is basically running the same playbook that he tried to run 15 years ago. There's a line here, which is a quote to you after he's attacking his opponent, Sununu, as this Silver Spoon elitist, he says, listen, my mom was married and divorced four times each.

My dad was married and divorced three times each. I'm a sexual assault survivor, a domestic abuse survivor. I was arrested at 12 for stealing records. I was drinking, driving, and stealing at 12. First of all, just incredible pros from Mr. Brown. What a rap sheet. You point out just after that, that maybe he was saying that in 2012 or 2010 and it was a good line.

But since that, he's a former senator now. He spent 2017 to 2020 as the ambassador to New Zealand. and another country, maybe Samoa? I think so. But he's an ambassador, a lawyer, and all he's trying to do is still be a truck driver. Yeah, and there are two things that are odd about that, right? The first is that, three things.

The first is that he obviously is no longer just Scott Brown who drives a truck, National Guardsman, which is fine, right? He became the United States Senator. He was successful. Like that's what happens. Obviously, again, we can list off, you know, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, later folks like Josh Hawley, right? People who are very populist and serve in the Senate. And obviously, you know, look, they're politicians. Every politician has to roll up the sleeves and put on the ball cap and do the cringy, I'm an every man guy. And we all sort of wink, wink through it. But also, you know, when push comes to shove, they're like, they admit that they're a senator. The second crazy thing is that one of the ways that the conservative movement and the Republican Party has changed as the Tea Party is, is that magapopopopulism is much more comfortable with successful people. Donald Trump is a millionaire or a millionaire, right? I mean, it's everything that's covered in gold. Donald Trump likes successful people. He likes businessmen in his cabinet. He likes businessmen in Congress. Like being a yeoman farmer who is running

just because you can't stand the national debt is no longer the way to get into the Republican Party. Being a handsome, successful businessman or lawyer or judge or academic, all of which Scott Brown, or former political appointee, right? This is how you get elected. And the third craziest thing, and that line really stopped me in my tracks. And as you and listeners of this podcast, no, it's not often that I'm stunned silent. This was because he was trying to argue that John Sununu was wrong for New Hampshire because he was part of this New Hampshire political dynasty.

He was rich. And so he was trying to say, don't worry about the fact that I used to live in Massachusetts. I'm actually the most New Hampshire candidate here because, and then he read that rap sheet. So his argument was almost, look, guys, I'm just like you. I'm also a criminal who survived abuse and had a hard life, which you kind of get what he's going for, but it was a really weird move to basically be like, no, like I'm a dirtbag, just like the people of New Hampshire, which is essentially what he was saying, though I don't think he realized how it came off.

Yeah, and to enter some of my political expertise here from my background before being an editor was a campaign reporter and especially Senate campaigns. His attack on John Sununu, who, by the way, the election was last week, which is why we're doing this today, won the race over Scott Brown. he more than doubled his vote. Sununu got 69%. Scott Brown got around 27%. Sununu is a Republican who because of his history in the state and his family's history

in the state is able to compete in New Hampshire with Democrats, a state that Democrats traditionally win. And I'll give you the headlines today, the headline in the Boston-Glaughts from Lean Democrat to toss up.

Here's what's happening in New Hampshire's Senate race. What's happening is that Sununu ended up with the nomination, and Sanunu has incredible name recognition and value to voters there because they've seen what he's done as a governor. So it's just interesting that Scott Brown's one attack on John Sununu may in fact be the biggest reason to nominate John Sununu if you're a Republican in D.C. who's just looking at it as another vote in the 100 and towards the fight to get 50.

And that's sort of what I was trying to get out with the whole piece and certainly with the headline that you read at the top, right? because that's the thing. Again, we already said it's not entirely accurate to say that the fate of the Senate and the country rests on who gets elected in New Hampshire. But that was the argument that Scott Brown was making. And so if that's the argument that you're making, wouldn't you want to clear the way for the guy who was obviously going to win?

I mean, there was never a moment when Scott Brown was ahead of Sunudu in these polls. I don't think he ever broke double digits. And he in our interview tried to, you know, oh, you know, America is tired of the clitons and the kennedy's and the bushes the sununu family isn't that kind of political dynasty they're a dynasty because they work in new hampshire and they serve new hampshire and people in new hampshire like them because of that like it's a very different thing and he wasn't you know he wasn't trying at no point was was john sununu trying to say you got to give me the seat because you know my dad was the governor i mean he's you know he's an accomplished politician in his own right um and it was

just a very there was so many contradictions too the other thing you know new is, Trump is not very popular in New Hampshire right now. We've seen Sununu actually handling this. So for Republicans, right, it's sort of a hard, New Hampshire Republicans have to try to square that circle. How do you, you know, not run as a Trump guy while not seeming like you're going to distance yourself from Trump, both to avoid incurring the wrath of the national party, but also to not seem, you know, kind of cowardly.

Sununu has been doing it great. And he actually just last week had kind of a moment that really, really. he encapsulates how great he did it. So Trump endorsed Sununu, we should also say that, right? Trump endorsed John Sununu. And, you know, someone, he was giving at a campaign event, and he was talking about how, you know, he likes the president, he likes what he does good things, he doesn't like what he does bad things. He'll support the policies he agrees with. He'll push back on the policies. He doesn't agree with. Very political answer. Someone said, well, how can you say that when you're so proud to have his endorsement?

And Sununu says, what is the president of the United States? He's the leader of my party. Of course I'm proud to have his endorsement. But I'm not like a Trump lackey. I've never even met the guy. And he laughs, and he got a big laugh. That's a great way to handle it. Brown was trying to, I'm the most MAGA guy you've ever met, but I will never agree with the president. But the president tapped me to be his ambassador, but he endorsed John.

And he was just sort of saying these things the way I'm saying them now. They were never connected to each other. There was never a period on them. There was never a therefore. There was never a final point. It was, again, almost like he didn't know what argument he was trying to make. he was still trying to process this stuff live on camera. Like, he had not thought about any of these contradictions previously, which was crazy.

I mean, I interviewed him two months before his primary election. And again, this guy's been in national politics for 15 years. This is his third Senate campaign. You think he would be ready to answer, like, pretty expected questions from a reporter who was certainly not setting out to write a critical piece. It was, again, the whole thing was very, very strange. You know, John Sununu is like a political Jedi knight to me. He really is incredible.

Let me just run down some stats about Sununu for you. Sununu managed to outperform Donald Trump by 150,000 votes in 2020. Independent voters in New Hampshire favor him over Democrats. this was back the last time he ran 84% to 8%. Donald Trump loves John Sununu. People that hate Donald Trump love John Sununu. It's why there's been speculation that John Sanuno himself should maybe run for president. And they've talked about it in both 2016 and 2020, and it came up in 2024.

So just again, the idea that Scott Brown would need to be, the guy to rescue New Hampshire from the chance of having John Sununu at the top of the ticket is just spectacularly delusional. Tim Rice, this piece was just such a joy to read. Again, it was America Needs More Scott Brown, says Scott Brown, and it was so fun going behind the story with you for once. Thank you, Brett. Thank you for taking me behind the story. And thank you, everybody, for tuning in.

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