Motley Fool Hidden Gems Investing - Mattel’s Filmmaking Strategy

Episode Date: July 22, 2023

Mattel has 45 films in development. A cinematic take on UNO could be coming to a theater near you.  Mary Long caught up with New Yorker writer Alex Baracsh to discuss his recent piece, “After ‘Barbie,’ Mattel Is Raiding Its Entire Toybox”. They discuss: - How Mattel is becoming an IP company. - Why “The Last of Us” broke the curse of bad video game adaptations. - If big budget movies really need characters that audiences already know. Companies mentioned: MAT, HAS, DIS  Host: Mary Long Guest: Alex Barasch Producer: Ricky Mulvey Engineer: Dan Boyd, Rick Engdahl Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Because we have your number. certainly at Mattel there was a lot of talk of four quadrant films you know you want to hit all of the possible demographics you need it to be broadly commercial theatrical and really hit all the beats and you know even the slogan of the Bobby movie if you love Bobby this is for you if you hate Bobby this is for you it seems like an almost impossible thing to hold in one film I'm Mary Long, and that's Alex Barish, a writer at The New Yorker magazine. I caught up with Barish to discuss the IP to movie pipeline and Mattel's asset-light approach to filmmaking, the new bargain that directors have to make for big-budget movies,

and the potential cinematic takes for Hot Wheels, Masters of the Universe, and Uno? Today kicks off our entertainment-focused weekend of shows. Tomorrow is our next installment of the Motley Fool Money Book Club, where we'll dive into Bob Iger's memoir, The Ride of a Lifetime. Joining us now is Alex Barish, a writer at The New Yorker who specializes in entertainment and culture. Alex, thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. Excited to be here. Of course. We're going to talk about the IP to movie pipeline that seems to be taking over Hollywood these days. But first, let's tackle something a bit more timely. The Screen Actors

Guild recently joined the Hollywood writers on Strike. How might this affect the IP cycle loop? Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. I think, you know, we'll see how it affects what's already in the pipeline. But we've been in this moment of real risk aversion and conservatism in Hollywood generally. And I have to imagine this is only going to compound that as, you know, they try to make up for lost time if and when things do resolve themselves. So maybe it makes it worse. We'll see. But time will tell. Yes. So I would say that you wrote the book or the article on Mattel's plans to rate its toy chest after the Barbie movie hits theaters this summer. Can you kind of lay the foundation for

us a little? How did the idea of turning Mattel into an IP company rather than a mere toy maker come to take hold? Yeah, absolutely. So this is essentially the brainchild of Inon Kreitz, who's the new-ish CEO of Mattel. He came in in 2018 when the toy maker was frankly really struggling. I mean, Toys R Us had just gone out of business. They were drowning. They reported something like 300 million in losses. They've been four CEOs in four years. It was a bit of a mess. So he came in and made this pitch to essentially reinvent the company and say, okay, we're no longer just a toy company. We are now an IP company. We're managing franchises as much as we're managing these individual brands. You know, we have these assets that we've been

sitting on. He came from an entertainment background and he felt that, you know, Mattel's catalog was, as he put it, second only to Disney in terms of children's entertainment and that they had not really capitalized on that. So his pitch was to align themselves with these studios and make films that would then sort of give them the cultural cachet and help them turn the ship around. And so Barbie is kind of the first, the pioneer of this experiment into content creation and building an IP factory, but it also kind of took a while to bring this movie to life, to live action. The idea for this was like first kicked around before Christ kind of took the stage in 2008, right? So what was the path to production of this movie in particular? Oh yeah. I mean,

it's been a journey and I think part of it is Mattel's fear of damaging the brand. You know, this came up a lot in my reporting. There was this real anxiety about the message that the film might send and, uh, you know, how it might reflect on the toys that they have treasured and that they, you know, it's their big moneymaker, you know, it makes them $1.5 billion a year now. So it really matters to them, the reputation of the doll. And obviously it has this very fraught history. So yeah, there was a time back at Sony when it was attached to Amy Schumer. It was attached to Anne Hathaway. And each of those projects, from what I understand from my reporting, were a bit more critical of Bobby and a little bit more making fun of Bobby. I mean, which is

not to say the one that we've arrived at is not mounting its critiques. But in this case, Bobby was the butt of the joke. And when he came in and said, we cannot have that. So let's sort of reclaim the rights, or let's let the rights lapse, and let's start fresh with a new team. And then that's the point where Margot Robbie, who had also been watching those rights like a hawk, sort of waiting for her own opportunity to pounce, decided to come into the picture. Yeah. So, this suggests, like, that lengthy timeline and Kreutz's whole plan kind of suggests that Mattel is really set on this strategy in particular working. You mentioned a little bit, like the phase that Mattel was in when Christ took the reins as CEO. How badly does Mattel

need this pivot to being an IP factory to work? I mean, it's an interesting situation for them because they have what they call a capital light model where they're not necessarily bankrolling any of these films. The studios are the ones who are bringing the funds and they're bringing the IP to the table. So it's not a question of them losing money on this, but they do really need people to think well of the toys that they make. You know, they're very insistent that it's not about selling toys. But if you look at the Burby movie, you can see there are, you know, dozens of brand partnerships that have come out of this. They've released their special collection of dolls to go with it. They've got all of these tie-in products. It's just a barrage of all Burby

all the time. And I think, you know, in order for them to continue to succeed, you know, they did well during the pandemic, but then they kind of plateaued. And I think there's a real sense of we need to revive the brand, we need to change the way people think about these things, or we need to keep it favorable to the extent that it is. So, in terms of reputation management and building a film division that people will take seriously, they really, really need this to work. Yeah. You bring up an interesting point, too. The movie hasn't launched yet, but we've already seen so much media hype and press hype about this. And Mattel has already, like we keep saying, or people keep saying, we won't know if the strategy

works until after the movie launches. But Mattel's kind of already seen some success in like press pickup, but also in partnerships. Like there's a progressive partnership with Mattel over the like random stuff that we wouldn't even expect. So we're kind of already seeing the inklings of success, even if the movie itself hasn't posted massive box office numbers yet. Yes, absolutely. And it is trending to post pretty massive box office returns. So, it seems like it is going to pay off in every respect. But you're right. I mean, it's given them this air of cool and relevance that definitely was not present this time three or four years ago. Like, Xbox doing a Bobby partnership is not something I would have

guessed about. No, never. Your article mentions that Mattel allegedly has 45 other films in development. What does in development actually mean for like a label that is a great question and it means different things you know that is a very capacious uh term of art so you know there are things that are pretty far along at this point they have a he-man and the masters of the universe film that is pretty much poised to enter production they have scripts for a lot of these things but there are other things that are sort of a twinkle in the eye of jj abrams you know there's no script yet for hot wheels. So we'll see what happens there. And it really is, I mean, they are rummaging at the very

bottom of the toy box in ways that may or may not pay off ultimately. So it's been pretty interesting to see the range of IP that they're trying to convert into something with real dramatic and cinematic potential. Yeah. And obviously there's an easy comparison here with what Mattel is trying to do to Disney's existing Marvel cinematic universe. But that kind of came with its own well of existing stories and lore. Mattel doesn't have that same storytelling foundation, but as you mentioned earlier, some of its toys, like Barbie, do carry a lot of baggage. So how does that history impact what Mattel is trying to do here and set it apart from other cinematic universes? Yeah, I think it's a really fine line to walk. I mean,

something like Barbie is appealing because of that baggage. I mean, I think that's kind of something that you can mine and use for its uh cinematic potential but there are other toys in their toy box like you know the card game uno they're trying to turn into a film and i simply don't know how that's going to happen yeah same but godspeed to them uh but it's it's an interesting kind of double-edged sword because the nostalgia is the thing that they're selling it's the thing that is the asset in their minds but it's also kind of a curse like if you have something that people care deeply about, then the expectations are much higher or there are emotions that are already running high about that subject. And so they're, you know, much more forceful as custodians

of those brands. You know, when Greta Gerwig signed on to do Barbie, they brought her in for what they call a brand immersion. They took her to the toy workshop, which I also went to as part of my reporting. And they basically walked her through the entire history of Barbie. And they said, you know, here are the highs and lows in the history. Here are the characters that, you know, have been introduced through the years here are the historical boobies here you know and and she incorporated a lot of that into the plot and in that case it was probably useful but in other cases the the fear of venturing beyond what would be acceptable to the brand might actually be a hindrance or if you have something that's you know lesser known or more inert then it's tough to say

whether that will be able to translate to something real on screen okay you went to the toy workshop what can you tell us oh yeah i mean there's pink as far as the eye can see you know it's just uh they have the the machines that they use to affix the hair to the dolls they have life size hot wheels they have multi-story tracks it's it's crazy and um and that is a pilgrimage that you know jj abrams had to make for hot wheels we've got tom hanks doing major matt mason which as this toy from the 60s that's actually no longer on shelves. I also sat in on a development meeting, which was very revealing, where these executives are sort of sitting together and talking about the ideas that might work for various properties and trying to match a toy

to a genre. You know, they're trying to make the Magic 8-Ball into a horror comedy. They have all of these ideas in the tank. And that was very instructive in terms of the likely trajectory of this cinematic universe. But it's not quite Marvel in the sense of they're not trying to do any crossover events. And maybe they really only need a few of these to succeed in order to prove themselves, but they're really throwing everything at the wall at the moment. Yeah. There's a moment in your article where you mentioned, I think the CEO, Inon Kreese, talking about Masters of the Universe and saying, there's endless content here. I can see sequel after sequel. And I understand why

endless content is appealing to a studio executive. But as a consumer, again, I think of the MCU, and I think there are 84 movies and TV shows now that make up the MCU. And I can't help but think, there's a point when the well runs dry, even if the well keeps going. And there can be too much of a good thing, right? Are we seeing that kind of play out in this space? Oh yeah. I mean, I think that the exhaustion is real for the MCU and possibly soon for Mattel, even though very few of these things have actually come to fruition yet. And I do, I mean, you know, again, we're in this moment in Hollywood where it seems that on the studio side, these are the things that they're willing to greenlight. You know, there's a real emphasis on this notion of pre-awareness and the

idea that audiences need to know what they're getting into going into the cinema or they simply won't show up and I have to say I don't know if that's uh if that's reflected in I mean it is reflected in the box office in the sense that the top performing films of the you know the last year were all reboots and sequels you know the top 10 at the box office in 2022 but I don't know you know I think that there is a real desire for original filmmaking and I I hope that we have not seen the last of that, but there is this bargain that it seems increasingly filmmakers need to strike, you know, particularly if you want to take a big swing, like if you,

if you want to do a big budget film, uh, you need to marry that ambition to a piece of IP, uh, particularly for an early career filmmaker. Like I, I spoke with the knee brothers who were working on the He-Man film for Mattel or even someone like Greta Gerwig who has this fantastic filmography, but she's never worked with a budget anywhere near this size. And in those cases, it seems increasingly that this is the deal you have to make. Yeah. When it comes to executives sitting in their desk and deciding what gets greenlit,

like what information are they using to make those kinds of decisions? Is it just looking back and saying what's worked well previously? What have been the big hits in the past year? Or is there more of a formula? I was talking to like a friend who works in the tech industry about this the other day. And he asked, is there any kind of testing that happens in this industry? The whole point in the tech industry is to fail as fast as possible. And if you know something's not going to work, you pivot and you actually put money behind what you know with some degree of certainty will land. So how are executives deciding and determining what will land? How are they backing up their bets? Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that this varies from studio to studio and streamer to

streamer but certainly at Mattel there was a lot of talk of four quadrant films you know you want to hit all of the possible demographics you need it to be broadly commercial theatrical and really hit all the beats and you know even the slogan of the Bobby movie if you love Bobby this is for you if you hate Bobby this is for you it seems like an almost impossible thing to hold in one film but there is this desire to kind of play to as broad a base as possible and to inoculate against those critiques in ways that will uh you know draw people to the theaters because we're in this you know particularly we've seen this with the mcu where uh it used to be the case that you had individual actors who could really draw people draw in audiences and at this point it's the

characters who are the draw you know we've had what five spider-men in the past 15 years you know it just keeps cycling through people but it's it's the character and the lore and the storylines that are apparently bringing everyone back, or at least that's the calculus in Hollywood, this idea that we need to lean on what people already know and have been proven to care about. But it also does seem like star power carries huge weight here. Yes, it's the character of Barbie that draws people in, but Margot Robbie is playing Barbie. That's an interesting, how much of it is the IP and how much of it is the existing brand of the actor that's pulling someone in. Yeah. I mean, that's a great point. And I do think particularly for Mattel, because

they need to prove themselves in this space and they want to have that air of prestige and show that they're serious contenders in the entertainment realm. Uh, they do need these A-listers and these heavyweights to align themselves with, which is why they're sort of courting people like Margot Robbie and Greta Gerwig and Tom Hanks and Daniel Kaluuya. Uh, and if you, if you don't have those names, maybe you don't go to see a Bobby movie. You know, like, I don't know that I would have seen it if it were not Greta Gerwig and Noah Baumbach and Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling. So, I think that particularly for them as the kind of newcomers in this space with something to prove, they really do need to lean on,

no, we're a serious operation, look at who's working with us. And I think that's part of what started this flood of unlikely partnerships. This isn't such an unlikely partnership, an adaptation that did kind of recently land with viewers came not from toys, but from video games. Late last year, you wrote about the making of HBO's The Last of Us and how its creators were aiming to turn this video game into prestige television. And this spring, Nintendo pairs up with Illumination Studios to make the Mario Brothers movie. How did these productions break what you call the curse of bad video game adaptations? I mean, I think a lot of it, particularly in the case of The Last of Us, was about choosing

the right source material. You know, video games are very difficult to adapt to the screen. They're often non-linear, you know, so much of it is about the act of immersion, the experience of being in it in that way. And all of that is lost when you become a passive viewer who's experiencing these things. You know, if there are branching paths in the game and you went one way and the film went the other, then you as a fan might be disappointed. You know, video game fans are notoriously people with very strong feelings. So, you know, it's this question of fidelity and also of, you know, create an experience that is distinct from what you got in the game because you know that you're never going to have that exact experience replicated in a film as a passive viewer but

it was also about you know to this point about Greta Gerwig being the one to do Bobby it's about choosing the right talent you know having someone like Craig Mason who did Chernobyl and who is a great fan of the game but also has proven himself to be capable of you know something with real emotional heft and uh intensity to it of that type you you felt in safe hands so and now you know it's swept the emmys in terms of these nominations i think they got 20 for just a couple of days ago so uh yeah i i think it really is about finding the right partners and finding the right material that actually does have that dramatic potential so in that regard bobby seems like uh it's going to do well but i don't know that the partnership

around UNO or something else will be as effective, because that is not necessarily the kind of property that has cinematic potential. For sure. I'm with you on the skepticism about UNO, but I'm also ready to be proven wrong. So everyone is talking about AI, right? And super buzzworthy, whatever. And that's also a huge cause behind the writers and actors in Hollywood striking. But all this talk brings up an interesting point. It seems like this IP strategy is based on Hollywood executives almost looking for a copy and paste formula, something that comes from an existing well of content that can just be replicated and is going to bring in guaranteed dollars. But where we've seen success with that pulling from the well

is when you have, like you said, really strong creative partnerships, things that are, yes, pulling from existing worlds, but are pretty wholly original in their attempt at building that world. What do you think this talk about AI and how that could impact the entertainment industry, does that support this IP strategy that we've been talking about, or does it actually kind of undercut it a little bit? Yeah. I mean, I do think that the best results are the ones that diverge more wildly from what you'd expect. And I think filmmakers is having the flexibility to take that creative license is the thing that makes these things great as you're saying like for you know the last of us was pretty faithful but the episode that

everyone talks about is the third episode where you know you have this sort of bottle episode it's a gay love story inside the universe of the game and that was a plot line that was barely hinted at in the game it basically doesn't exist it was created wholesale for the show and it's the most successful moment for one of them so i think it it's if if ai is simply going to be used to replicate what's come before and certainly there is that executive tendency to speak in comps you know if you're in the room with these people they'll often be saying you know okay we want a film that's book smart meets bill and ted you know it's it's sort of about mashing together these sensibilities of these uh previous titles and i don't know that that's a successful

formula. I think you do need the freedom to innovate and to take a hard left turn, which Greta Gerwig has certainly done with this one. As always, people on the program may have interests in the stocks they talk about, and The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against, so don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. I'm Mary Long. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow. Thank you.