Motley Fool Money - 2 Cutting-Edge Companies in 2020

Episode Date: December 25, 2020

In 2020, Zoom Video grew from 10 million daily meeting participants to 300 million daily meeting participants. How has Zoom managed to scale? How will Zoom maintain its culture? What’s it like when your company becomes a verb? Motley Fool senior analyst Bill Mann explores those questions with Zoom Chief People Officer Lynne Oldham. One of 2020’s most successful IPOs was insurance company Lemonade. Motley Fool CEO Tom Gardner and Motley Fool contributor Asit Sharma talk with Lemonade co-founder and CEO Daniel Schreiber about disruption, data, and the future of insurance. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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which makes it so much easier to stay on track. And you can get unlimited expert help at no extra cost, even on nights and weekends during tax season. Visit turbotax.com to get matched with an expert today, only available with TurboTax full service experts. Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money. From Fool Global Headquarters, this is Motley Fool Money Radio Show. I'm Chris Hill. This week, we've got interviews with executives from two of the hottest companies of the year. Later in the show, CEO Daniel Schreiber of Lemonade, a stock which more than doubled on its IPO in July. But up first, Zoom video. In terms of daily meeting participants, This year, Zoom grew from 10 million to 300 million.

Motley Fool senior analyst Bill Mann talked with Zoom's chief people officer, Lynn Oldham, about the company's incredible growth. I just wanted to start from the beginning because Zoom in 2020 has been one of the most fascinating, important companies in the country, perhaps the world. And it's been an incredibly unique working environment for all of us. What do you think in your role, what even is corporate culture in the year 2020? That's a really, really good question. You know, culture is what you feel in the air, right?

It's, I think the things that drew me to Zoom, when I walked in the door of our lobby, and in every lobby we have across the world, we have two words in the wall. And it says, we care. And that's the way it feels like everywhere you went, right? So I saw the words in the lobby and worked for a lot of companies that those words are a little less meaningful than they are at Zoom. I see, you feel it in every interaction you have with employees, which is fantastic because that tells us all. Culture doesn't live in the walls of an office. It lives in your people, right? And that's, that's a critical thing. that we all have to remember. I think it's going to be harder to make sure that remote employees and I hear that from my compatriots at different companies

to ensure that they feel connected and as important these days. But I think if your culture is pervasive, the pandemic can't keep it down, right? You've just got to keep doing what you've been doing and not let that fall by the wayside. I think, you know,

surveys or we've been doing surveys to find out what people are thinking, how they're feeling. You know, we're being responsive to those. We have this great all hands. You've met Eric. Every two weeks, we have an all hands where people can get on and leave anonymous questions and we answer everything. It doesn't matter what it is. We answer it because transparency, I think, is a big key to that we care. So we're not hiding anything. We're talking about all of it. And then finally, the thing we did culturally for our group is we saw that people were struggling, lots of meetings all day long, back to back, hardly a chance to go to the bathroom. We did Wednesday, no internal meetings.

So no internal meetings Wednesday is our day to get stuff done. I'm a little excited to hear you say because it's fair, right, to say that people who work. work at Zoom, have a little bit of Zoom fatigue? I think, you know, we were best equipped to do this better than most companies, right? So on March 4th, Eric and team turned it on a dime. But meetings in general, you know, you've got to examine your day and its makeup and whether you're getting the things done that you really want to get done. And I think that's what we saw, is that just we like seeing each other. We care about each other. So we're in a lot. lot of meetings and some of them maybe aren't as necessary as other. So we're learning how to

parse through them in a bit better way. How has Zoom managed to scale and how have you managed to scale? I think back to February and March, we, we, I was in firefighting mode, right? Because you're right. In a couple of weeks time, we were doing the numbers that, you know, we were expecting to do a little bit further in the future. Not, not a not. in that many, you know, that short of time period. So firefighting mode from everything from how do we get ourselves to the size we need, you know, to some of the privacy things we were working on. And I mean, there was a lot of work to be done in February, March, April, it continues. But what most important was making sure that we had the people because that's, you know,

with that volume that we were doing, you needed help. You just needed more arms, legs, and brains, right? So the shift over the year now is back on, you know, for me, is back on strategic. And really, what does the next year plus look like? And what is that future work for Zoom and, you know, our customers? And how do we make sure that we can get there? That's, that's, so I see it. I mean, this year was ups, downs, sideways, but for sure, from firefighting to strategic again.

Yeah. What is the big work for you now? So obviously, you have added on hundreds of employees. Yes. Few of whom have set foot into the office. So they have been meeting and interacting with each other in the same way that you and I are interacting right now over Zoom. How do you go about getting.

them integrated in such an unbelievably dynamic environment as we've seen. And I think the word unbelievably is somewhat overused, particularly by me. It's one of my top five words. But I think in this case, it really is unbelievable. Yeah, sometimes I wake up and I don't, I don't know how we, how we got to where we are. But for sure, it's been a lot of sweat equity. I think the, let me tell you, that's about 40% of our workforce has not seen at four-step foot in a physical office at this point in time. And we're, you know, it starts, all starts at the beginning, right? How do we recruit and making sure that we're speeding? But in that speed, we do not want to compromise quality. That's pretty critical for us. It always has been. And it's even more so now.

So we've instituted a values interview where we're asking very deep questions about how folks, and experiential questions around how folks feel around that we care value. We ask a bunch of different ways across the interview panel. Then once you get here, we've got a whole onboarding set up for you that really gets you from day one, understanding and feeling like, one, you join the company you thought you joined, and two, giving you a sense of how we all live that value. So it's very experiential. We do a lot of breakout rooms. We don't talk about much at all, actually, about the products. We talk a lot about delivering happiness and joy to our delighting our customers. That's what we talk about for the day and through experiences that come with these people into the room. So it's a very visceral feeling that first day. And so between the interviewing and the onboarding, we're, really trying hard to get everybody to feel like a Zumi from a minute one. So on your LinkedIn page, you set out as your goal that you're trying to deliver

happiness to both your employees, the Zumi's, and to customers. I don't know if you've met him, but we have spent a lot of time over the years with Laslo Bach, who was the chief, he was the chief people officer at Google. I imagine that he's someone who you know or know of. And I love how he talks about employees at the organizations and the importance it is at the outset for both these employees and the end customers about finding and bringing the right people in, right? The identification from the outset.

How do you go about doing that? Yeah. So I think there's a couple of things we're looking for in people who join Zoom. We're looking for people who have lived or feel that value of care. However, it shows up. I don't mean it always has to show up in a customer perspective. It can be community. It can be your family.

It can be teammates in your last opportunity. So it's seeing how they demonstrate that. You need an empathy gene, right? Exactly, exactly. The other is we're very logical thinkers. So our way of doing things is what's the problem, what's the roots cause, and what's the solution? If you bring a solution to the table first, that's not going to work. So you have to be that kind of a thinker. I think the other thing is we're looking for voracious learners. Eric instituted this benefit long before I got here, but I love it. It is, we pay for books of descriptions. We want people to read and learn and keep going. So somebody who's got attention for that is someone who would do well here. And then I think finally,

just somebody who would like just wants to get after it. You know, when I say speed, we don't want to compromise and quality. We are speeding. We can turn on a dime. So I think that's, those are the things we look for in people who, who really thrive here. And we've been really lucky. We know what we, what we are and who we are,

and we find it in people, which is fantastic. More after the break, you're listening to Motley Fool Money. Welcome back to Motley Full Money. I'm Chris Hill. Here's more of Bill Mann's conversation with Zoom video executive, Lynn Oldham. What are some of the things that you realized as, as May moved into June into July, as you're growing very quickly, as we're realizing, that this is going to go on for a while, were there things that you suddenly needed to pivot and get into your tool chest to be able to operate most effectively

during this period in time? Yeah, I think if I think about it, Bill, I think about it and sort of three big things that any and every company should be doing. One is listening. So whether that's a survey, whether that's this little thing we did called connecting conversations where we put intact teams together to talk about how they were doing

and not the work per se, but how they're doing. We just did bite-sized gratitude in the month of November. So we're trying to get people talking together because we think listening is mission critical as we progress through and now the curve deepens again. I think the Second thing is making sure that you're, wherever your employee sit, wherever they sit. And now I know we're all remote, but when it is time to potentially go back to a different situation to make sure that they feel a part of the company. So that bleeds into my third thing, which is around leaders. So at this point in time, we're building muscle in our leaders to ensure that they can be

deliberate, that they have the ability to be empathetic, like we said earlier, right? Because that's really critical. If you're empathetic leader, you're hearing, you're figuring out how to unite the workforce, you're kind of get the best out of your teams and making sure that they can deliver on results. I think those are the things that I think about as we move through this are the essentials. I think a lot of people would probably describe thinking about Zoom as a cultural phenomenon this year as something that they came on to scene. On the one hand, fairly reverential. Like if it is lucky and yet unlucky that we're going through the pandemic at all. But if we'd gone through this five years ago, a lot of the tools

that are in place now, and I think Zoom is at the top of that list, we're not ready for us. But at the same time, there's been some psychological cost for people being isolated. So you can go with this question anywhere you want to go, but what would you or would your company say, what do you want things to look like where Zoom is most helpful in a society that's healthy as we come out of this pandemic? Yeah, no, I think I think that's what we're thinking about all the time now, Bill. I think We want to ensure that, you know, companies, that there's enhanced communication, collaboration, because those are the things that really, you know, make companies, right? We're trying to really, whatever remote working trends that we can, you know, assist with,

I think the idea is that given the world that has embraced Zoom technology, along with changes in behavior, we think these trends are going to continue. you in a post-COVID world. We think the future of work is hybrid, regardless of where your users choose, you know, our users choose to work. Zoom is going to be there. We're going to have exciting portfolio products to, you know, fit the work from anywhere world that we're going to have to experience.

I think some of the things, if you were able to attend Zoomtopia, we saw something that I think is the coolest. It's called Smart Gallery. And basically, once we're back into an office setting, the office is equipped. The conference rooms are equipped with additional cameras so that when we're on a Zoom meeting, even if there are three people or four people in a conference room, we all show up this way, rather than that picture of everybody sitting in a room and then one or two faces that are remote. And that's what I love about what's happening now is we're all the same.

size. We have equity, right? And I think that is what I want to preserve of what has happened through pandemic into the future. And this smart gallery is just such an awesome addition to that. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. I'm sure at some point you have to pinch yourself for where you are and what you're doing. Because I think about where Zoom is and what you all, you've literally saved lives this year. You think about telemedicine. My best friend in the world is a cardiologist. And a year ago, none of his patients and none of his fellow doctors would have accepted the thought of having evaluating sessions through a Zoom call. Wouldn't have done it. Research has been done over Zoom. Medical appointments have been done over Zoom. All of these assessments,

have been done over Zoom. What your company has meant to society over this last nine months has really been incredible. And I want you to hear it for me. But do you ever think about this, what it is that you all are doing? You think about it all the time. It is almost a two-sided coin. It is the thing that keeps us going when we're not feeling like we want to keep going. And it's the thing that gives us the most joy about just what we do every day. We have Bill, a cool and inspiring stories chat in our chat tool that is just full from day one. people just keep putting things in there. And if you are down, you don't have, you know, you're like, it's just too much work,

too many meetings, you go to that and you just get all jazzed up all over again. It's got to be breathtaking. Yeah, it is. It really is. I'm hoping somebody takes it. I think we, you know, put it together in almost like a, what do you call that, like an anthology of the year at some point. Yeah.

But it's great. Yeah. I think that's what keeps us going. sure. Well, here's the degree to which Zoom has been to society. I actually did some work, and I figured out that you are one of the few companies that is now a verb. And in the, you know, in putting together a spurious correlation portfolio, I was thinking of other companies that are also verbs. And it's not many. There's Uber. There's Google. There's FedEx. You're Xerox. You can tweet. You can use bubble wrap, both of which are verbs, but it's a pretty

special place to be. It really is. Even when you're talking to people, and they're talking about the other guy, they're saying they're zooming. Up next, a conversation with Lemonade CEO, Daniel Schreiber. Stay right here. This is Motley Full Money. Welcome back to Motley Full Money. I'm Chris Hill. On last week's show, Ron Gross said that outside of the ripple effects of the pandemic, his business headline for 2020 was the return of the Blockbuster IPO. And by far, one of the biggest of the year was Lemonade, a tech company that is disrupting the insurance industry. The stock rose 140 percent on its first day of trading back in July.

Recently, Motley Fool's CEO, Tom Gardner and contributing analyst Asset Sharma talked with Lemon Lemonade CEO, Daniel Shriver. Let's kick things off with Tom asking about the problems that Lemonade is trying to solve. So it's foundational to our lives. It's got a tremendous variety of entrance into the game that even by having a few percentage points of market share can become a Fortune 100 business. And yet, with those qualities, foundational, many entrants. huge potential. It's a category that very few people like as customers. It has very low,

let's say, net promoter scores or very low regard in the world. Probably you as a 13-year-old weren't dreaming about being a salesman of insurance. And I guess we know, and I certainly from watching some of your great presentations on YouTube, we know some of that is the conflict that exists between the company and the individual when it comes to a claim. So it's very important, I think, for the understanding of all of our members to hear clearly from you how that claims process is different at Lemonade. What is the problem that Lemonade is addressing? That I would say clearly the data is showing like the younger demographic is buying,

and the older demographic has been working with these tall building insurance companies in the center of town, gives them comfort that they exist. but overall, they have some questions about how they're being treated as individual, and they don't like the process very much. Now lemonade emerges. They hear about it. Maybe they're a member of Motley Full Service. Now they've heard about it and they wonder, so what are they doing differently? What's the alignment that they're trying to create between their stakeholders that doesn't exist in this very large category that's 100 plus a couple hundred years old? Yeah. Well, it's certainly something that's new and dear to our heart and we've given a lot of thought to.

myself and my co-founder, Shai Winninger, don't come from the world of insurance. We came to insurance after 20 years of entrepreneurship in the field of direct-to-consumer, digital and tech products. And when we came to insurance, we were asking ourselves the exact question that you just asked me. You know, why is this product which is so foundational, which at a mathematical level is a social good? It's about people pooling resources to help the weakest in that. that is almost a dictionary definition of a social good. Why is it so despised? I saw some survey saying it's distrusted even more than politicians in the US. And quickly, we did a Google

survey in the early days, just asking people to classify insurance as either social good or necessary evil, the overwhelming majority of Americans said necessary evil. And did another one ask them, do you believe that the insurance company is going to pay your claims without putting you through a rigmarole? And the answer was no, overwhelmingly. So certainly insurance companies have exactly the kind of association that you were saying a minute ago. And then the question to us was why and how could we do something differently? I've heard you, Tom, quote Charlie Munja talking about incentives and the idea that he says, show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome.

And that was something that preoccupied us a lot to quote somebody else. else, ice tea, he says, yeah, don't hate the player, hate the game. And that was really part of what animated our thinking early on, which is to say, I'm assuming that every person working at every insurance company has wonderful moral fiber. Mine is certainly no superior to theirs. So this isn't about picking good people in order to engender trust. It's about a system and about incentives. And I talk about the game, but I really do think in terms of game theory. And in fact, in founding the company, I reached out to a noble laureate in game theory and spent some time with him trying to think through the elements of the game. And the problem with the insurance game is that it pits insurance companies against their customers.

Certainly in the eye of the customer, this is true. We have the data to support that. And the reason is that insurance companies, one of the ways they make money, is through underwriting profit, which basically means after I paid the claims, how much money is left over, which means that if I don't pay a claim, I make more money, and basically means we're fighting over the same coin. Now, maybe I'll zoom out a bit and broaden the point a little bit more, which is to say the following. It is such an obvious thing. It almost doesn't bear saying that insurance companies' results depend on how many claims they pay out. But there are actually

three problems that ensue from that at a business model level. The first we're talking about now, which is the distrust that engenders. One of the founding team members at Lemonade is Professor Dan Ariely, one of the most preeminent behavioral scientists. And he wrote a book called The Honest Truth about dishonesty. He spent 10 years studying what makes people honest and dishonest. And we conclude that if you set out to create a system with a stated aim of bringing out the worst in humanity, it would look a lot like a modern insurance company, that everything that his research said you should not do is manifest in spades in insurance companies.

Asymmetry of information, I understand the policy you don't, asymmetry of power, I have your money, you want to extract it from me, a win-lose value proposition, if you get it, I don't, zero, all these elements of his research said that that's not a good thing to do, and Ford indeed is a huge problem in insurance. So that's one problem. The second one at a financial level is volatility of results. So one of the beautiful things about insurance companies is that they have highly

predictable, highly recurring top lines. One of the problematic things about insurance companies is that they have massively volatile bottom lines that literally fluctuate with the weather. What were the wildfires like in California this year? What were the hurricanes like in Texas? Answer me those two, and I'll tell you what the profitability of the insurance company was. And the third one, which is a corollary of that, is they become capital intensive because if I've got these massive surprises waiting for me, I'd better put aside a chunk of

change in order to take care of those rainy days. So you end up with a conflicted business model, highly unpredictable bottom lines, and capital intensivity in order to contend with that volatility. So we set out to rethink all of that and we decided we're going to try and create an insurance company where our results are at least that first blush not so intimately connected with how many claims we pay out. And we do that through two ballasts that stabilize our business. And what we say to you as our customers are following, you'll pay us for insurance. Every dollar that you pay us, we're telling you right now we're going to take a 25% fee out of that and we're going to keep it. That's going to pay for our salaries and for everything else.

And come what may, we're going to take 25%. Now, we don't know how many claims are going to be this year. So the remaining 75% may be enough to pay all the claims. and there may be money left over, or it may be inadequate, and there may be insufficient money. We take care of that volatility with these two ballasts. One is reinsurance, which is that residual risk we pass on to reinsurance partners, and you can actually do that. You can trade in risk in insurance companies. So we take an element of our risk, and we say, beyond this, it's your risk, and we pay a fee for that every year.

And that means that if there's excess claims, the reinsurers pay the excess claims, not us. To you as a customer, it's entirely invisible. This is behind the scenes, a financial work that we do with them, but it means that our books aren't hit if there are a lot of claims. And conversely, if there's money left over at the end of the year, we say we're not going to keep it, we're going to give it to a charity. Hey, Tom, which charity is near and dear to your heart? And that really changes everything. It changes, first of all, the relationship between us, because beforehand it was an adversarial relationship, a two-party system where you and me are fighting over the same coin. Now we've introduced a non-profit into the room. It's a trilateral relationship where I don't

make money by denying your claim because my fee is capped and fixed. And you might think twice before embellishing your claim because you're not hurting the nameless, faceless behemoth with whom you have a conflict relationship. You're hurting your church or your kid's school or the soup kitchen you volunteer at or whatever is near and dear to your heart as a giveback. And that changes the whole nature of the relationship from being transactional to being much more meaningful. And it also takes care of the other things that we said in terms of volatility of bottom line results and turns us into a capital light insurance company, which is something of an oxymoron. Coming up, what is lemonade like for the people actually using its service? The answer is next. Stay right here. You're

listening to Motley Full Money. Welcome back to Motley Full Money. I'm Chris Hill. Here's more of our recent conversation with Lemonade CEO Daniel Schreiber, led by Motley Fool CEO, Tom Gardner. You mentioned, well, you've now spoken about kind of the behind-the-scenes system that you all created. We're very big fans of Dan Ariely at the Motley Fool. And we'll dig a little bit in the system with some more challenging questions for the fun of it in the next segment. But I just wanted to end this segment, kind of getting the backdrop of the business by hearing you express what happens on the front end for the users. So somebody who signs into lemonade for the first time and it's going to get pet insurance or renter's insurance. Who are they on average out there in

the world? Who's buying? And what's the difference in the experience that they have when they sign in the lemonade versus a traditional insurer? And this part of our talk is something that everyone can experience for themselves. If nothing else, I'd love to get some sales out of this. So everybody should take out of their phone, download the app and give it a try. So yeah, We do renters insurance, homeowners insurance, condos, pet, and we're about to launch life insurance as well. And the user experience in all of those cases is a delightful chat with the chat bot. So you go to lemonade.com, you're down with the app and you're talking to a bot called Maya. She's the alter ego of a real person.

Maya was one of our founding team members in the early days and runs a big chunk of our business today. But that's a day job. Her alter ego is busy selling insurance as an AI. So you chat to Maya, the median time to buy a policy at lemonade is about 90 seconds. I read some of that the median time to buy a coffee at Starbucks is three minutes. So you're talking about really you can order the espresso and while they're making it, you can enjoy your home. That's the kind of experience.

And generally speaking, you'll find it a fun experience. It's no jargon, no insurance speak. It's a playful. She's kind of impish and she makes jokes and it's just a delightful experience. So you buy insurance without any trouble at all. I think the more striking thing is not so much how easy it is to buy insurance, but how easy it is to make a claim because that's really where the gotchas come in. And actually, it's the same thing.

You do that by chatting to a bot. This time the bud is called Jim, AI Jim, based on our chief claims officer by the same name. And Jim will ask you a few questions. Say, hey, Tom, what happened? And you'll say, oh, was that Starbucks, actually? and I was getting an espresso and I turned around my laptop was gone. But you'll do that by picking up your phone and talking into the app. So you just talk into the app, plain natural language, explain what happened.

And in about a third of our claims, the bottle will handle the entire process, start to finish, and will approve or if it needs to deny your claim without any human intervention. And we pay about a third of our claims in as little as three seconds, quite literally. So it's one of those wonderful things. and hopefully this will be a recurring theme that we'll come back to, but crushing costs, well, delighting consumers, because you do end up with a really fun experience, simple experience, easy experience. So that is that the front-end experience. It's entirely digital. You can call and speak to a human if you want to, but people don't. 100% of our policies are sold through the bot. Ninety-seven percent of our claims are handled through the bot as well,

although sometimes some of those will require human intervention on the back end as well. many will not. If I made just one afterthought because I gave an incomplete answer to Tom. You asked not only about the front end, but about the customers. About 75% of our customers are under the age of 35. I don't think that would be shocking. We do have people of all ages, but since this is such a digital experience and an irreverent brand that has a certain appeal that skews young. And more striking, I think, is that 90% of our customers tell us they're not switching from another insurance company, their first-time buyers of insurance. And that is kind of shocking.

If you watch more than five minutes of TV, you'll know that the TV commercials bombard you with I-switched and I-saved messages. I switch to Liberty Mutual and I saved 913. You know, all that kind of stuff. 15 minutes can save you 15%. And so the whole business model of insurance is predicated on this I-switched, I-saved and eliminated, we're not actually. playing that game. We're competing with non-consumption. We have become, I think, in terms of

market share, probably the lead market chair in terms of first-time buyers of insurance. And perhaps nothing is more predictive of the ultimate market share than new new market share. Where are the new customers who are joining the funnel? Where are they going? And they're going in droves, thankfully, to lemonade. So we are seeing this skew of younger consumers, first-time buyers of insurance, It's not limited to them, but a big part of our business is predicated on capturing customers at a time that they're not really attractive to large insurance companies because our cost to acquisition, our cost to serve with the digital experience, just changes the whole economics in a pretty fundamental way, which allows us to offer insurance at about 50% the cost of a traditional

insurance broker for these first-time buyers of insurance. And then so long as we delight them, they stay with us as they go through lifecycle events and maybe we'll come back to that a bit later. One of the things that everyone is excited about is your commitment to charity. There is something great at the end of the day. If the company does well, it's got something left over in the kitty, you make a donation, and I who paid in my premiums can select some of that for charities of my choice. But what do you say to the skeptics who remember Etsy's early Stumbles?

It's a great example, another B-Corp, a company that everyone really loved, in terms of melding a great business model with a sustainable bent, a commitment to its space of artisans. I remember so vividly that the very inspiring CEO, God forbid, this should happen to you, Daniel. Chad Dickerson eventually had to leave. And Hedsey has done enormously well since then. I think they would have succeeded anyway. What do you say to those who say, look, the commitment to charity is a distraction, and in fact, it may be harmful to your business model. I can't talk to your Etsy example. I haven't followed them closely enough to be able to do a compare and contrast. But I think the most costly problem in insurance is distrust.

People estimate that $40 billion a year goes on fraud in insurance, which is staggering and stunning, and it's not hackers from the Ukraine. It's people like you and me who consider ourselves law-abiding citizens and other aspects of our lives. And when it comes to insurance, something, apropos what Dan Ariely said, something about insurance triggers us and makes us feel it's okay to embellish claims, to level the playing field.

And it also means that it's a category with incredibly low loyalty. Most people can't even name their insurance company. So the brands don't matter. The insurance companies don't matter. Perceived as a necessary evil. I mean, just think about it. If you're trying to change insurance,

and bring it back to being a social good, and for people to have an emotional connection with a brand, something's got to change. And then you start asking, I said, well, what is it that needs to change? And then I go back to the business model and the game theory. And I think about what we're doing with charity as enlightened self-interest.

And I say to you and through you to our investors out there, I'm not apologetical fine for our charity. Now, I would be if I thought I was being charitable at their expense. I would have a problem with that. I don't think it's real charity to be charitable at somebody else. To take your money and give it to charity is nothing admirable about that. But I think we've created a business model, and this was so important to China and I in founding the company,

where we think this is a win-win-win. We think that we are solving a real problem that the industry suffers from, which is distrust, using game theory to restructure the business. business model so it becomes a trilateral relationship rather than a bilateral one, keeps you honest, keeps me honest, takes away temptation, and makes it more fun to work at Lemonade, makes it more meaningful to work at Lemonade, makes it more meaningful to have a relationship with Lemonade as a customer, and you start getting to a virtual cycle of instead of distrust and tit-for-tat, you get to a place of pride and then word of mouth spreads.

And Tom, you asked about NPS. We've got NPS that, you know, is Apple and Tesla level, 70 to 80. percent, whereas the insurance sector struggles to get into positive territory. That's going to do it for this week's Motley Fool money. As always, people on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about, and the Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against. So don't buy ourselves stocks based solely on what you hear. The show is mixed by Dan Boyd.

Our producer is Matt Greer. I'm Chris Hill. Thanks for listening. We will see you next week for our preview of 2021. So be safe on New Year's Eve.