A Couple’s Financial Manifesto, Revisited
00:00A couple's financial manifesto revisited, and the Dowdy Dow has its day.You're listening to the Saturday Valentine's Day, personal finance edition of Motleyful Money.I'm Robert Brokamp, and this episode I'm going to do something I've never done over my 14 years of podcasting.I'm going to have my wife on as a guest as we look back on a plan for how we'd manage our finances that we wrote together 26 years ago.But first, let's discuss some items from recent headlines.On February 6, the Dow Jones Industrial average crossed 50,000 for the first time after crossing 40,000 less than two years ago.Plus, as pointed out in a recent Wall Street Journal article, it has been the index to beat over the past few months.Since Halloween, the Dow has returned 5.9% compared to 1.8% for the S.P 500 and a loss of 2.6% for the NASDAQ.
00:59The Dow, which was called the Old Man Index by a 30-year-old investor quoted in the journal article,has benefited from a lower allocation to the recently lagging tech sectorand higher allocations to surging sectors like industrials, materials, and energy.It is admittedly a quirky index, waiting its 30 holdings according to each company's stock priceinstead of their market capitalizations.Currently, the top holdings are Goldman Sachs at 12%, Caterpillar at 9%,and then Microsoft, Home Depot, Amgen, Sherwin Williams, and American Express,each come in at around 5%.
01:32That makes for a diversified mix of holdings,at least currently, is working out pretty well.Next up, mixed signals from the job market.Let's start with the good news.February 11th, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statisticsannounced that non-farm payrolls increased by $130,000 for January,more than twice the number economists were expecting,and the unemployment rate dropped to 4.3%.
01:53Also discouraged workers,and those holding part-time positions for economic reasonsdeclined to 8%.That said, most of the new jobs came from health care and social assistance.In fact, without health care, the economy would have lost jobs over the past year, according to Moody's chief economist Mark Zandi.Last week, the Bureau of Labor Statistics announced that job openings in December were at the lowest level since 2020.And Schwab's Lizanne Saunders posted on social media a chart from Arbor Data Science, which shows that the 12-week moving averages for Google searches on the terms unemployment,filing for unemployment, and job boards have reached levels not seen since 2021.
02:31And now the number of the week, which is $5.8 trillion.That's how much more of the U.S. government will spend this year than it takes in as revenue from taxes and tariffs.According to a report published this past week by the Congressional Budget Office,that amount of annual overspending is projected to grow to $6. trillion by 2036.Of course, this just means that Uncle Sam will just have to keep on borrowing money.According to the CBO, federal debt will increase from 101% of GDP this year to a hundred and120% in 2036, surpassing its previous high of 106% of GDP in 1946 right after World War II.How a couple of young, newly married fools agreed to manage their finances when Motleyful Money continues.
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04:25It's Valentine's Day, and there's nothing more romantic than talkabout money with your significant other. Well, maybe not, but it is important because the evidenceis clear that financial acrimony can lead to marital disharmony. For example, a study entitledexamining the relationship between financial issues and divorce found that, quote,financial disagreements are stronger predictors of divorce relative to other common maritaldisagreements, end of quote. Soon after my wife and I got married 26 years ago,we decided to make sure we were on the same financial page by writing what we called ourfinancial manifesto, which we then published as an article on full.com. Here to talk about what was in it
05:04and how much we actually stuck to it is my wife, Dr. Elizabeth Brokamp, who is a licensed professionalcounselor, a professor of clinical mental health counseling, and the mother of four wonderful kids.Welcome to Motley full money, Elizabeth. Thank you so much, Robert. It's nice to be here. It's kind of liketake your wife to work day. I guess it is. All right, so let's set the stage. It was the year 2000. We'd have beenmarried for less than a year at that point, and we both worked at the Motley Fool. We decided towrite our manifesto, and then we turned it into an article, even though neither of us were actuallyofficial writers for the Molly Fool at the time. What do you remember about how we came up withthe idea and how we wrote it? Well, what I remember is that we weren't totally aligned with our
05:46financial outlook. That had been less of an issue when we were dating, but it seemed like definitelysomething who should deal with as a married couple. For example, I was used to really living on the edgein terms of finances. So I was cool if I had, you know, enough money to live off Kraft,macaroni and cheese for the rest of my paycheck. And you were you. You were, you know, very interestedin financial stability and creating a safety net and things like that, not so interested in livingon the edge. So at the time, we were working there at the Motley Fool, which is just a greatthriving place of young people who are all interested in and talking about money. And I think,you know, through those conversations, we realized that we really really,
06:27needed to get on the same page. When we were dating, we were poor elementary school teachers. Somoney wasn't much of an issue because we frankly just didn't have very much money. Then we gotmarried. Eventually realized that there could be some problem areas, maybe being a little less comfortablewith how far a bank account could go before we panicked. So once we combined our finances,we figured it was time to get more aligned and formalize our financial manifesto. I don't remember howwe got the fool to publish it, but it did end up taking on somewhat of a life of his own. It ended up beingamong the most popular articles for the year 2000,which then led to an online webinar
07:01and then a book that we contributed to,which I think just goes to showthat many couples recognizethat some sort of written financial planis probably a good idea.All right, so let's move on to the manifesto itself.It had five components,each of which had, I guess you would call it a title and a subtitle.
07:17And we'll take turns taking the leadand describing each, the first one being,what's more important, a house or a hamburger,or in other words, prioritize,and post. So this one was our way of saying keep your eyes on that long-term prize. A hamburger todaymay not be a big deal, but all those small decisions add up over time and could mean that you'redelaying something that's arguably much more important to you, like buying a house, for example.I'm going to give us a grade. I would say on that one, I would give us an A. I also want to acknowledge
07:47fortunate timing. So we were able to buy a house in 2000, and we bought a fixture upper thatyear right when the housing market was about to boom. But I would say beyond even that lucky purchase,it's become a way of life to keep our goals, kind of front and center. So I would say that my biggestsuggestion for other people is to make sure that you're checking in periodically and making sureyour priorities are still aligned with one another. And then also just for me, I'm a visual person.So making sure that I have a picture somewhere, whether it's my screensaver or I'm having a visionboard of something that I'm aiming for is really important for me.Nowadays, people talk about the latte factor, which is about how foregoing a daily cup of fancy coffee, and instead investing it can lead to tens of thousands dollars over the long term.
08:35But I guess we were kind of ahead of the curve because we were putting it in context of hamburgers.But that's kind of what we were getting at here.As for the grades, I'd give us a B plus.I would say the B plus for me because I still make a lot of small purchases that I probably shouldn't.But in our manifesto, we did list out our goals, which were a house, starting a family, college, retirement, et cetera.and we're on track to meet those, so I think that's good news.Another part of the manifesto that I think helped is that we said we do an equivalency calculation,figuring out how many hours we had to work to make a purchase,
09:07and I think that helps keep spending in context.And then finally, I like the visual part a lot.We actually had the manifesto posted on the fridge for a while,and I had an abridged version in my wallet,so I had to see it every time that I was inclined to spend some money.All right, let's move on to the second component of our manifesto,which was follow the breadcrumbs.In other words, track inflow and outflow.
09:31And this just comes down to having a systemfor seeing where your money is going.We've been talking about this on the showwith the 2026 Financial Planning Challenge,including last week's episode.So check that out if you haven't.I'd give us a B on this one,but sometimes maybe a C,
09:46because we've kind of ebbed and flowed with this.We start out with spreadsheets,then went to Quicken, then to Mint,then to empower, and now we're back to Quicken.So we're sometimes better at staying on top of this than others, but every time we dig into our spending, I think it's pretty eye-opening.And another component of our manifesto was that we check into this weekly.I personally haven't been able to stick to this of late, so that's room for improvement on my part.And I agree with you, between that B and C, maybe a B-minus, for myself.
10:14I did the work to set up the quick-in.I keep up with all our bills, of course, but I really don't do an analysis of what we're spending that often.And then as we gotten older and more established, we've gotten more things to track.So it's gotten more complicated.I recently decided to try and track one big financial area a month and do kind of an audit.So last month, for example, I did an evaluation of our credit card benefits.And I made these little sleeves that we could put our credit cards in that tell things like, you know, which one is going to save you more on groceries or gas, for example.And then my latest one was tackling new car insurance quotes.
10:48So I think that's the way that I'm going to try.to improve my B minus to a higher grade.Yeah, and having three young drivers on our auto insurance, my goodness gracious, what a billthat has been.All right, let's move on to the third component.Don't eat your money.In other words, put cash in context.I think this one's pretty self-explanatory.
11:10We were really cognizant that a lot of money can go out the door if we're eating out allthe time.I don't even know how to grade myself on this one.I would give us a better grade if either of us love to cook.Luckily, we have pretty simple taste beyond delighting in simple things.We do things like use coupons.We shop at Aldi with a big shout out to the Aldi I Love Shame community on Facebook, which I love.And buying in bulk at Costco, those are things that we do as a matter of routine.
11:35So pretty standard stuff.Dining out has usually been the discretionary category that has sometimes gotten away from us.As I've mentioned in a previous episode, once you've analyzed your spending,you'll find that you just have a few categories that you need to keep a better eye on.And I think we were trying to acknowledge that very early on with this component of our manifesto,that eating out is the thing that we probably have to just stay on top of more.All right, let's move on to component number four of our manifesto, the wacky-cackey.In other words, find ways to save money.
12:08And this name came from my days as a financial advisor back of the 90s.And the CEO of a sportswear company came to talk to us, basically, to get us to sell his stock to our client.and he had a pair of khaki pants.He said, we make these pants for around $10.We sell them to Walmart.Walmart sells them for $15.We sell the same pants as JCPenny's.They sell for $25.
12:32We make the same pants, sell it to Macy's.They sell for $40.And the point being, there are lots of ways to spend less moneythat don't necessarily result in much of a drop in qualityof the goods or services that you're buying.So the importance of comparison shopping,looking for deals, you can find lots of ways to save moneyand it don't necessarily result in a lower quality product
12:53and being comfortable with used items by shopping on Craigslist,Facebook Marketplace, or maybe through estate sales too.Yeah, looking for deals has definitely gotten easier than it was in 2000.You know, there are things like Cracketon, there's grocery store digital coupons,just being able to Google discount codes.And those are things that I definitely do as a matter of course.I give us an A on that category, especially because I think that we often try to buy used.You know, if you look around our house, we call it the house that Facebook Marketplace
13:20built because of all the decor coming from other people's things that they're getting rid of.And the exception for me would be holiday gift giving. I would say that if you call something a gift,I'm much less inclined to seek out a bargain. And that would be an area that I'd love to track alittle bit better. And that's part of what makes you such a great mom, of course. All right,let's move on to our fifth component, the state of the union, and we had in quotes by fellowbrocamps. And the point here is to monitor progress. Yeah, we were talking about finding,a way to commit to some kind of regular touching base opportunity related to our finances. Soin the original manifesto, we said we'd meet every Thursday. But this morphed into what we call
14:01the Sunday summit, which is kind of like a life planning session for the week. And financesoften are a part of that. So we talk about the schedule and who has to do what. And this becamereally important, especially as we had kids who were doing zillions of activities throughout the week.This is probably, Sunday Summit is probably my favorite thing that we've done, not only becauseI like you, Robert, and I like spending time with you, but also because I think that so manyproblems can be avoided if you identify the pain points early and take some steps to deal withthem. So, and then I think that being flexible, learning to be flexible when life gets in the wayso that we're not able to do it, or when we're coming on an issue from different vantage points and
14:40we need to kind of diffuse rather than meet in person, we've developed ways of dealing with that too.So writing each other in email to introduce the topic, for example, is one way we've dealt with that.And then consulting neutral parties to get help with the roadblocks.So seeking out the advice of others instead of directly having a conversation about it at that point.I think those are good suggestions that may help other people.Yeah, one of those neutral parties was a field of financial planner, which may surprise people,given that I'm a certified financial planner myself.But I do think it's important for even financial professionals as well as dedicated do it yourselfers,
15:15like many of the Motley Full Money podcast listeners are,to check in with a fee on the financial planner every few yearsjust to get that objective professional point of view.And I think it could also helpwhen partners don't agree on financial prioritiesas long as both are willing to listen to the professionalwith an open mind.All right, so those were the five components of our financial manifesto,
15:36but in our article, we also highlightedsome of the problems we encountered when creating it.So looking back 26 years later,which one sticks out to you the most?It's really interesting to look at that list because I think by this point, we've really grown up together.We've grown into our partnership for sure. So it doesn't feel the same anymore as when we were newly out of our family of origins homes and we were sort of reacting out of old money scripts.We've mellowed out a bit. We've developed a trust over time in each other's approach and we really do a nice job of balancing each other out.But the one that I think still feels relevant is the one about timing. So approaching conversations at the right time.
16:15It's definitely important to know your partner well enough to know when a conversation is going to flop like a lead balloon.And when sometimes waiting just a little bit is going to lead to a more productive talk.Right. And I think we've developed a good sense of that.And when, as you mentioned previously, you know what, maybe I'll make us an email first to introduce the topic and then see how it goes from there.The one problem that we highlighted in the article that I think is interesting now, looking back on it, was the initial disagreement about the manifest to itself, right?So I wanted this extensive document that was several pages long, and it was more like a constitution, right?Dealt with every little thing about our finances, which I laugh about now because soon after we did this, we had kids and all that nitty-gritty would have gone out the window.So you wisely convinced me that the manifesto should be more about, shall we say, like, guiding principles than like a company's audited financials.
17:09So let's close here with some parting final advice.Is there anything we didn't discuss?but you think is important for couples to consider when coming up with their own plan for managing their money.I thought about this. I came up with three things. One is that I would definitely suggest to define winning as when you accomplish a financial goal together, not as when you get your personal way.And I've noticed this even on our conversation today that when we talk, we're really careful to own our own part in problems or, you know, in situations that we've created financially and not really quick to blame the other.person. That's something that in my work as a counselor, I have seen definitely that pointing fingerscan be really destructive. Last, I'll say that it helps to be married to a retirement expert,but since there's only one of you to marry Robert, I'm really glad that people get to hear
17:57your advice on your show and in your articles. Well, that is very kind of you. I'll add to somethingthat you hinted at earlier in that, I think doing the manifesto early in our marriage was importantbecause it set the ground rules early, and we've mostly stuck to it, which has led to a lot oftrust so that, you know, 26 years later, we don't have to be quite so vigilant about things.And I also point out that we've never been perfect with our money. And there were times thatwe didn't do everything that we laid out in our agreement. And I think that's to be expected.So any couples out there who spend some time creating their own agreement, but then somethinggoes awry or you or your partner don't stick to the agreement 100% of time, that's fine.
18:37It's never going to be perfect. But the process of creating your own manifesto and then occasionallyrevisiting it. We'll do all kinds of good things. Gets you talking about money, figuring out what youagree on, identifying potential problems, and then, you know, hopefully talking through solutionsand compromises, and ideally setting your family up for a better financial future. Well, Elizabeth,this was fun. Thanks for joining me. And happy Valentine's Day. Anything for my favoritefull. Thank you. Happy Valentine's Day. And thank you so much to all your listeners.In a world full of noise, long-term thinking stands out. On the Capital Ideas podcast, Capital Groupleaders explore the decisions that matter most in investing, leadership, and life. It's a rare look
19:18inside a firm that's been helping people pursue their financial goals for more than 90 years.Listen to the Capital Ideas podcast from Capital Group, published by Capital Client Group, Inc.It's time to get it done, fools. And last week, my colleague, Stephanie Marini, joined me to discusshow you can calculate and automate the amounts you need to pay off your debts, build a safety net,and save enough to accomplish your financial goals. And you just heard me and my wife discuss how we'vemanaged money as a couple. Now, I'd love to hear from you. What have you done to make sure yourfinances are on track? And how have you and your partner found money harmony? Send your tips,tricks, and recommendations to podcasts at fool.com. And I'll share a few in the next episode. Again,
19:59that's podcasts at fool.com. Also, in case you wanted to read the article my wife and I wrote way backwhen, it's still on the web, just do an online search for it. And if you're looking for a more fun articleabout couples and money that has my byline but had plenty of ideas from other fools,including my wife, do a search for the Foolie wed game,which is a list of questions you and your spouse can answer to see how much you're aligned on money.And that, my friends, is the show. Thanks so much for listening.Thanks to Bart Shannon, as always the engineer for this episode.And as always, people on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about.
20:33And the Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against.So don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear.All personal finance content follows Motley Fool editorial standards and is not approved by advertisers.Advertisements are sponsored content and are provided for informational purposes only.To see our full advertising disclosure, please check out our show notes.I'm Robert Brokamp.Pull on everybody.
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