Motley Fool Money - Braze Blazes Ahead

Episode Date: April 14, 2024

You know the saying: keep your friends close, keep your … customers … closer.   Bill Magnuson is the Chairman, CEO, and co-founder of Braze, a customer engagement platform that works with some of Business’s biggest names. Fool Analyst Tim Beyers caught up with Magnuson for a conversation about: Braze’s origin story. The power of personalized marketing. The company’s latest results, and its plans to create even more value in the future. Companies discussed: BRZE Host:Tim Beyers Guest: Bill Magnuson Producer: Mary Long Engineers: Rick Engdahl, Tim Sparks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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We've really been, as I mentioned earlier, working on a problem that I think is fundamental to capitalism and important for businesses of all kinds and really connected to some really like human truths of, you know, if you want to build a strong relationship with someone, you should try to understand them as well as you can when you meet them and use that understanding in order to have more relevant interactions with them and that'll build a stronger relationship, right? And so I think that we're kind of in the fundamentals of business and we're trying to work on some. fundamental things about human relationships, which means that I think that Braise's approach to this problem is applicable to the vast majority of businesses in the world. I'm Mary Long, and that's Bill Magnuson, CEO and co-founder of Braise, a highly customizable customer engagement platform that helps some of the biggest brands in business connect with their customers. My colleague, Tim Byers, caught up with Magnuson for a closer look at Breeze's orchestration platform. They discuss the benefits of building relationships around people

rather than channels, why Braes is akin to a high-frequency trading system, and what needs to happen for Braes to become a truly great stock. Bill, good morning. Thanks for coming on to talk about Braes. You just had quarterly results. Good results. Revenue up 33% year over year. Good growth across the board here. But we'll get to those earnings numbers in a minute. I want to talk a little bit about this company that you've built. So let's go back into the wayback machine a little bit and describe what Braise is. But starting from what you saw when you and Jonathan Hyman founded this company, and I think I have it, right?

Is it 2011 when you founded this company? And what was the problem that you saw at that time that informs the company that we see today? Yeah, so I'll actually take a step back a little bit. So I studied computer science at MIT, and I was graduating around 2009. And in late 2008 was when Android was about to launch. And I actually had the good fortune to be able to take a building mobile applications course, my senior year there. And we actually had Rich Miner, who was the founder of Android, he would come into our lectures every Friday, and he would bring his dog in, which was pretty awesome. and we were building on pre-release G1 hardware that,

if you remember that old slider phone with the QWERTY keyboard and the roller ball and everything, that we started building mobile applications on top of that. And of course, pre-release software also means there was almost no documentation. So I'm not going to lie, it was a bit of a struggle. But, you know, that gave me an early lens into mobile and in really early experience with that. I still remember the first day that I was actually in the middle of a phone call on my Blackberry Pearl. and the battery died on it.

And I actually, I was like, oh, I bet you that I can use this dev device that I've been given for this class to be able to finish my phone call. So I moved the SIM card over. And of course, it worked. And I've been an Android user ever since, actually. Wow. And so went from that, you know, graduated and then moved out to San Francisco and worked at Google and Mountain View. And I was working on a Google research project around Android, which is called App Inventor for Android, which actually still exists today. It's a visual programming language for building mobile applications.

And I was on a team with a number of professors and their former PhD students that they had collected around Google. And we worked with a bunch of institutions to be able to help these introductory computer science classes build mobile applications as part of their career. And so I was working on that project, had early exposure to it. And then I finished my master's and graduated and went back into the finance industry, actually. I had worked at Bridgewater Associates, a hedge fund up in Connecticut in 2008, which is obviously an auspicious time to be at a global macro hedge fund. And had gone back. I had some student loans to pay off and everything else. And spent about 18 months there.

But while I was there, mobile kind of kept like haunting me and luring me back, you know. And I felt like, well, the finance industry was an interesting place to be that there was a massive transformational change underfoot and that I really wanted to be a part of it. And so John Hyman, actually, who is the Braes CTO today, and we can talk about that a little bit more. But actually, when we first started, I was the CTO. John was our CIO. And we had a third co-founder named Marker Mason, who was the CEO. And the three of us together, you know, I think what we saw was that there was tremendous potential in mobile, but that wasn't being realized to really build businesses. And so there were two parts of it.

Their first was this conviction that huge businesses would be born and business. built to be mobile first. And of course, that seems laughably obvious now, but in 2011, you know, most of the popular apps in the app store were things like prank calling soundboards and, you know, compass and flashlight apps because nothing could have been built into the operating system yet. You know, toys, gimmicks, little utilities, et cetera. And those mobile applications also didn't have business models. In fact, ironically, the fact that you would buy an app for $0.99 in the early days actually was working against us. You know, we were trying to build a toolkit to help mobile app developers be able to engage their audiences over the long term, you know, help

kind of cement habits and relationships, understand how people were using their mobile app so that they could drive additional engagement and help avoid churn. And I used to pitch it at mobile app meetups in New York and San Francisco back in 2011, 2012, with the tagline of, you know, help turn your app into a business. And I remember someone coming up to me at one of those meetups and them saying, hey, I want people to stop using my app as soon as possible because after they pay me the $1.99, that's all the money I'm ever going to make from them. And the sooner they stop using the app, the sooner I can stop paying the server bills. Right. And so this was kind of the feedback environment that we launched into in 2011. But, you know, we just had that conviction that mobile was

going to become more and more a part of people's lives and that you'd be able to build, you know, real sustainable businesses on top of that by providing, you know, digital services and products and such. And then that the second part of it, which came, you know, which came into fruition later, but was always part of the plan as well, was, of course, that the wide-scale adoption of mobile by consumers would transform existing businesses. And so you actually still see that, you know, to fast forward all the way to today, that early provenance still exists in our customer base where our revenue roughly breaks down 50-50 between commercial, what we call commercial and enterprise, where there's small young businesses that are trying to

quickly acquire a new customer base. They want to be able to retain those users as they spend dearly to acquire them. They want to be able to understand how their customers are using their product, especially as it's evolving quickly in the early days, or as their user base is expanding into new countries and regions or new socioeconomic groups or what have you, and the personas that are using their product are changing over time to be able to really stay ahead of that so that their acquisition and their retention strategies can keep pace. And then, of course, we've seen mobile really show up and disrupts every existing

vertical in industry. And about 50% of our business comes from the enterprise. We're highly diversified across verticals. You know, we really tried to work on a problem that I think is core to capitalism, which is just if you want to build a sustainable business, you know, how do you keep connections with your customers over the long term? How do you engender, you know, the advocacy and loyalty and really having people make your product and service a part of their day-to-day lives or part of their routines so that they can

have long-term loyalty. And so, you know, over the last, I guess, what, almost 13 years now, we've been building toward really servicing those two major categories of these like born and built-to-be mobile first and then the enterprises that are being transformed and disrupted by changing consumer behaviors around mobile. I mean, it's really interesting. And I want to describe how how Braes works here. So if I can give you, it seems like the core innovation was just to build off what you just said there about building customer relationships. One of the key innovations with Brace, if I understand it correctly, and I want you to correct me if I don't, was this idea that if you are going to engage with customers, particularly in mobile first, you have a lot of channels

you could build around, and most of the existing technology was built around the channel. I have an email marketing thing, and I have a messaging thing. And what Braves was built around, again, if I understand it correctly, was the idea of you got a customer. Let's let the customer choose what channel they want to use, and we'll build you a platform that allows you to engage with the customer, and then you can kind of fine-tune it. And then however, they want to engage with you, then you can. set it up to engage that.

Was that the idea that like this is broken and we're going to build it around the customer instead of around the channel? I am so, so that's exactly right as a characterization, except you need to sprinkle a little bit of, I'll just say ignorance on our part because we didn't, we didn't actually know what the marketing landscape looked like at the time because we weren't marketers. And so we were actually just solving it more from first principles. And the problem that you described with how. the existing landscape worked is really this classic, if you've got a hammer, everything looks like a

nail problem, which is that, you know, when a marketer sits down, if they've got an email marketing solution, they're not asking themselves, like, how am I engaging with the customer journey holistically? You know, how do I match together, how the customer wants to interact with me and what my business's goals are and find like a harmonious way to be able to connect those two. They're just saying, what email am I going to send today, right? And that leads you to, you know, the wrong, it leads you to the wrong solutions, these problems. When we started, we actually, as I said, we didn't have marketing backgrounds. And if you go back to that anecdote I have from the meetup, it's clear that mobile apps actually didn't have marketing teams in the early days because they didn't have

business models and you don't spend money to amplify a business model when you don't have one. But over time, of course, this problem of maintaining, you know, strong connections with your customers, doing it through communication and through, you know, understanding the data that drives that drives the customer behaviors, that ended up becoming owned primarily by marketing teams or by growth teams, which are these interdisciplinary teams that bring together marketing, engineering, and data science usually.

And that evolution over time and kind of this move from the activity of sending messages and silos to, you know, what we refer to as the craft of customer engagement where you're really connected to what the customer wants, how they're trying to interact with your product and service, you know, the kind of the arrogance of even calling the prior generation of tools, these journey building tools as if the email marketing was in charge of the customer journey,

right? It kind of made sense 10, 15, 20 years ago where most of your email was being read when you're sitting down, probably sitting down at your desk at work, which is where most people had computers, right? When Exact Target and Responsus and Neolane, which are the email service providers that make up the marketing clouds of sales force Oracle and a business. Adobe today. They were literally founded 1999, 2000, 2001. It was a very different world, very different technology environment. Most people didn't even have computers at home yet. And they would read

their email in a relatively uncuttered inbox. They were probably at work. They were actually focused on it. You know, compare that to our digital journeys today where it's completely nonlinear. It's moving from channel to channel and platform to platform, you know, very fluidly. You will show up to interact with a brand at any moment of the day. You do it on your terms whenever you want to. And that is a tremendous opportunity for brands to be able to both understand the customer much more holistically as well as to be able to communicate with them. But it also creates this strong responsibility that you're beaming yourself directly into someone's personal device at what could be some of the most important moments in their lives. And so that is, I think, a tremendous

responsibility. But also there's a lot more noise in there too, right? And there's a lot more competition for their attention and their focus. And so you need to be compelling and relevant and engaging as well. And so those, you know, that kind of tension between that huge opportunity, but of course, the high bar, both from a responsibility and from a performance perspective, you know, from our standpoint also meant that we just needed to take a much more sophisticated approach to this problem than had existed before. And so, Braise is actually architected much more like a high frequency trading system than it is like marketing technology in the sense that if we think about the problem of a high frequency trading system, effectively what you're trying to

to do is you know you've got new data points that are constantly stilling in whether it's like every single tick of the uh you know of the stock ticker throughout the day uh maybe it's the new jobs report as it flows in you know new macroeconomic indicators etc those new data points come in and then what you're going to try to do as quickly as possible is you know take the new data point to update your current view of the world right the model that you're holding for a particular equity or particular market or what have you. And then you're going to take your trading strategy and apply that to the model. That's going to then output an action that or, you know, one or more actions that you want to take. It might be a buy or a sell or, you know, might feed into some other model to then be a need to

resolve that sell. And then you want to execute that trade as quickly as possible. And then there's kind of two feedback loops that happen. One of them is the synchronous feedback loop of actually watching whether the market moves and the trade is still available and maybe you'll make the next. Right. And then there's the asynchronous one where the report reporting goes out and you analyze that over time in order to then simulate new strategies and you kind of feed those back in. And the same analog exists in customer engagement. So a customer is using your product or service, right? When Bray's deploys in our customers, we integrate directly into their mobile apps or into their websites. And so someone or their connected fitness products or connected TVs or what have you, right?

We work across all these different channels. But basically anywhere the consumer is interacting digitally. And so they take an action in the mobile app. That new data point flows into the top of our system. We then update their user model where we combine that new action and the evolving context around them along with our existing view of them. We then take all the engagement strategies that our customers have programmed into Brays and we apply them to the new state of that model. And that might output different actions that we need to take, including sending a message, canceling a scheduled message, moving someone to the next step in one of their canvases or what have you. And then there's the synchronous part, which is that customers, of course, are on a nonlinear journey and they're moving from channel to channel and platform to platform. And so we want to see how they engaged with that message because, you know, doing so might

bring them, they might click on an email and go into a mobile app or they might be going from the web into mobile or they might have now shown up in their SMS inbox or maybe they're chatting with me on WhatsApp or what have you, right? That ability to coherently move from place to place and be able to flow synchronously with the full knowledge of everything going on is. a really important part of that. And then, of course, asynchronously, we want to be able to get people real-time reporting so they can evolve their strategies and, you know, update them and test and experiment. And that's also an important place where our machine learning is able to then, you know,

churn through those results and be able to come up with more predictive matching and other sorts of optimizations. And all of that lives in an event-driven stream processor, where every single data point that flows in is considered one at a time. They're all executed on in real-time. And I think that that's both a technology shift, of course, because, you know, obviously these systems that were built back around 2000 were not built on top of event-driven stream processing. And indeed, the vast majority of the marketing technology landscape, even today, is still being built on top of batch processing and relational databases and what have you. But it's also a reflection of the reality that we live in immobile, which is that if you're going to respond to the customer who's moving through the journey on their terms in a nonlinear fashion showing up in any moment at the digital, day and wanting to be able to be interactively communicated with in a way that's relevant and personalized, you need to show up with really advanced technology in order to meet that

challenge. And so that that event-driven stream processor that lives in the flow of the data and actually understands the context of it as it evolves in real time, you know, that's the kind of purpose-built technology to be able to solve that problem. And that's where Bray started all the way back in 2011. And we, of course, been scaling that all the way to today. Yeah. And the growth has been amazing.

But before I hit you with some numbers here, because there's been a lot of growth in the business. I want to make sure to, I pause and translate a bit for those who are non-technical users here. So what I heard from you, and I think you just explained pretty elegantly, actually, why when I go to the grocery store, every time I go to the grocery store and I come back, the first thing I see on my phone is what? It's a new app, or it's a new pop-up on my phone from Ivada. And I wonder if they're still a customer. I remember when I first research, they are. That's not surprising at all, Bill, because, like, I get, and they're generally incredibly relevant.

Like, now they're trying to get me something that I may not want to buy, but it's, it's adjacent, probably adjacent to something I have bought or I may have looked at, which is very interesting. And so what I heard, if I want to translate this down, is that you call this a high, you know, akin to a high frequency trading system. So Bray's is looking at a ton of data points doing event stream processing. In other words, stream processing is real time. I'm not just taking data, archiving it into the system in the back, the database, and then I'm going to look at it later. It's the data's coming in. It's streamed and I can take actions on it immediately. That's the difference here. So when you talk about on earnings calls, I want to make sure I'm hearing you correctly. You say we have an opportunity to, you know, do these legacy migrations, legacy upgrades. That's what you're talking about. Taking somebody that's had an archival system and say, look at how you can benefit from a real-time system like grades. Am I describing that correctly?

Yeah. And, you know, that's a massive part of it. And the key in understanding that I think, think is just in really grocking event-driven, right? Which is that instead of an event flowing in, and as you said, the first thing you do is you go write it down, and then you have a separate system that goes and looks at it, right? That's batch processing in the sense that you have separated processes that are storing into the database, and then there's another system that's looking at it in the database. And you can make those batches smaller and smaller, right?

You can look at it on instead of once an hour, once every 15 minutes, You could even be looking at it every minute, right? But there's a difference between that kind of two-stage process of write it down and then have a system of processes versus event-driven, which is, hey, a new data point just showed up. Now I'm going to execute on it, right? Right. And that's the difference between kind of living in the flow of the data versus having, you know, having those stages be separated. And it's obviously, you know, if you kind of think about that, it's certainly more expensive and harder to scale kind of living in the flow of the data, particularly. Particularly when as a marketing tool as well, you know, we do a lot of stuff that is operational, that's interactive with the user.

But we also, you know, if you look at media and entertainment, breaking news use cases, you know, if we're in the sports industry, you know, big events in major sports games, et cetera. There's also or even just like, you know, your weekly promotional messages that are going to go out or maybe with delivery, you know, trying to get ahead of people's lunch hour in a particular country or region or what have you. There's all these reasons that people would send, even with a, you know, event-driven real-time system, would still send bulk messages all at once. And if you think about the engineering challenge of that when you also are doing in product messaging, you know, we get this request to send out a massive number of messages to everyone in a customer base, which we do as fast as we possibly can. And braise is a very high-scale, highly parallel system that does that quite quickly. And then as people receive those messages, they're all opening the application at the same time as well. And so that's a massive spike in load. And then as they come into the application, we also render content inside the product.

And so we can do surveys. We do interstitials in product. We also have a persistent message feed called content cards, which can be incorporated into an inbox or into carousels or other parts of the product experience. And so all of that also gets personalized as the user is opening the product. And so, you know, really living in the flow of the user behavior in, you know, in ways where you can have unpredictable scale, pretty hard technical challenge. And we actually just last week released some new numbers from our calendar year, 2023 to put some scale around that. We processed a 7.5 trillion incoming API calls last year.

I was going to ask you about this. Yeah. What is what is happening when you have 7.5 API calls? and then you had something like 2.5 trillion. Yeah, there were some ridiculous numbers in here. 2.6 trillion outgoing actions, 7.5 trillion API calls. What is happening there, Bill? Well, the 2.6 trillion outgoing actions are, you know, the vast majority of those are literally messages being sent to customers across all these channels that we've mentioned, you know,

whether it's mobile push notifications, web push indications, email, SMS, WhatsApp messages, or in product. We might be delivering surveys. rendering interstitials, providing like little dismissible side-ups or rendering content cards. And so messaging across a lot of different places. And then when we talk about actions, those can be other generic things. And they're usually either web service calls through something called a webbook, which allows you to kind of generically orchestrate a lot of different things. It might be something internal to your own system.

So maybe you want to generate a voucher code for someone. Maybe you have your own internal inbox system that you've built for a secure. message center like at a bank or in the healthcare industry. Maybe you're people even use it to, to kind of process returns or to ship things to people as long as there's an API on top of those shipping systems or to coordinate with other sorts of POS systems to be able to bring data back to the actual salesperson working in a store. So a lot of flexibility there as well as data manipulation jobs that might be

transforming data. You know, a lot of times when a user takes an action, It actually, if you consider the simple example of a dating application, you might actually want to update information in someone else's profile, not even necessarily just in your own, right? So that ability to then trigger an action elsewhere in the graph of users. Or there's actually also places where people will reach into the PADDAT ecosystem as well. You know, there's been a lot going on with the death of the cookie and the IDFA changes from Apple's app tracking transparency framework. And that ability to actually say, oh, hey, I just saw this person show up in my mobile app. Like, let's stop running ads against them as soon as possible so we can stop wasting money on them.

Like, we've reengaged them. There are some really high ROI use cases in that as well where you take these first-party experiences and you use them to help orchestrate some of your ad buying. And so that $2.6 trillion number is the combination of all of those things. And then the $7.5 trillion is, you know, all of the times that we've got data flowing into the system. So I mentioned that we're integrated into our customers' apps and websites and connected fitness products and what have you. So every time a user is taking an action, opening one of those, you know, clicking on this button, using this feature, all of those things. You know, those are going to trigger incoming messages or incoming API calls to Bray's, which we will then immediately take action on with our event-driven stream processor.

So is it fair to describe Braise then? And then I want to pivot to the just completed fiscal year here. It sounds like kind of an orchestrator that's ingesting a bunch of data and also executing a bunch of actions for the purpose of doing a better job of using every dollar that you put to work to engage a customer. Just getting better ROI out of every dollar you're going to put to work. for engaging a customer or a prospect. Is that a good way to think about what Braise is fundamentally?

Yeah, I think that's pretty spot on. We're trying to just do a better job, deliver better relevance to customers, help them, you know, explore the products and services on offer from each individual brand that we work with so that they can do, they can make it more a part of their lives, they can become passionate advocates, they can develop habits around it,

you can avoid churn, you can help drive additional purchases, You can help cement subscriptions. You can have people, if we're in the health and fitness or the health and wellness area, you know, helping people adopt those habits they really want to to learn a new language or learn a new skill or, you know, keep themselves healthy and be out, you know, hiking trails or riding their pelton bike or what have you. And so a lot of different places that this comes into play. But fundamentally, yeah, I think you've nailed it. So let's talk about the financials here.

So I'm just going to give some numbers about 472,000. million in revenue for the year. That's up 33%. Gross margins hit just about 69%. The operating margins still negative 31%, but that's about 10 points improved year over year. So it does look like you're getting some efficiency there. The remaining performance obligation up significantly. So I kind of think of remaining performance obligation as a backlog. That's now close to $640 million. About 64% of that is current, so within the next 12 months. So really interesting stuff here. You now have, Bill, in terms of your overall customer base, you reported 244 customers for the fiscal year and the current quarter. 202 are now generating at least 500,000, about half a million,

at least in terms of annual recurring revenue. So that's a little under 10% of the customer based. One of the ways I've thought about, just from an investment perspective, what has to happen in order for Braves to be a great stock for, you know, members here at the Motley Fool is those big customers have to get more and more fervent about Braise. They've got to make bigger and bigger commitments to Braise. How do you think you create value? Like how does Braise create value such that shareholders are going to see it over the next. 10 years? Is it cultivating that bigger commitment to the Braz platform? Is it growing the overall pie? Is it a combination of both? How do you see it? What's the growth look like? Yeah. So there's

a there's a few different dimensions. And one of the things that I love about the Braise business is just how diversified we are and how we've already proven that diversification. So Braise's history is not one where we like found a nice little niche and we, you know, we milked it for all it was And then we, as that one started to run out, we had to like jump to the next one. You know, we've really been, as I mentioned earlier, working on a problem that I think is fundamental to capitalism and important for businesses of all kinds and really connected to some really like human truths of, you know, if you want to build a strong relationship with someone, you should try to understand them as well as you can when you meet them and use that

understanding in order to have more relevant interactions with them and that'll build a stronger relationship, right? And so I think that we're kind of in the fundamentals of business and we're trying to work on some fundamental things about human relationships, which means that I think that Braise's approach to this problem is applicable to the vast majority of businesses in the world. And so when you look at our customer base, we have, you know, mid-40s percent of our revenue comes from outside of the United States. It's a pretty high number for a company of our age. And it's actually been relatively true through most of our history because mobile has been such a broadly deployed technology. We also have no meaningful diversity or no meaningful concentration in any given vertical.

You know, our top five or six verticals are all kind of in the high teens or low 20s percent of overall revenue. We've got another, you know, half a dozen verticals that are meaningful and up and coming. And Braves has really shown an ability to solve use cases across. businesses of, you know, all kinds across the entire consumer experience. We also successfully sell the same piece of technology to the world's largest global multinationals. And I mentioned, you know, one of the, that we had our first eight-figure customer in this most recent earnings. And so, you know, we're talking about $10 million plus air our customer with one of the world's largest conglomerates all the way down to one-person teams that are at, you know, young like, you know,

e-com, Shopify startups or newly launching mobile apps or what have you. where we have a one-person marketing team that's successfully using Braes in order to drive their launch. And so I think you look at that, you've got tremendous diversity of use cases. You have a platform that's proven an ability to sell across a wide array of verticals. They've got a massive global footprint and one that continues to grow. We just announced that we've expanded with new hiring of new go-to-market people in both Korea and into Latin America as well, as we continue to build on our international success. And you're also have a technology platform that is enterprise ready, but not in the negative sense of that word,

in the sense that it's like, you know, heavyweight and clucky and can only be used by enterprises. It's actually something that can be utilized by the world's, you know, largest and most complicated multinationals and is also, you know, very, you know, well wielded by these small but mighty marketing teams that often are, you know, can only be one person. And so I think that when you look at our growth potential, it's important. to realize that we've actually proven an ability to sell into a substantially larger market opportunity than we are currently penetrated. You know, when you consider the potential number of customers we have across those three dimensions and then you take a step back and you say, wait a minute, that company only has 2,000 customers today. Obviously, there's a huge amount of future customer growth that we'll continue to sell into. The other side of it is the continued

expansion of the product surface area over time. And so when we first started out, you know, we were focused in mobile. We sold a product that had the different mobile channels as well as email. And that was the kind of starting set in 2011. And that was mobile push notifications as well as some of the end product stuff that we've been talking about. Over time, we've expanded to, you know, include other channels. We added web push and we ported our in mobile app products all the way into websites as well. We've then since expanded those in connected fitness products and connected TVs. We've also expanded our messaging options from email to include SMS. More recently, we launched on WhatsApp. We're working on Line right now as well, and we'll continue to move through

the premium messenger market throughout the rest of the world. We look ahead to additional RCS adoption and certainly anticipate that we'll be expanding our SMS product to SMS and MMS products to include that in the future in product. You're seeing continued expansion there as our content cards becomes more flexible and powerful. We continued building on top of surveys. We also launched feature flags last fall, which is a product primarily used by product and engineering groups in order to drive additional experimentation or to be able to do various things at release time to modify the product's experience as a customer is using it. And so you're seeing an expansion of the messaging channels that we're interacting with as well, all of which provide not just an ability for us to

kind of upsell existing customers, because of course they're going to want to these new channels as to become available. But they're actually also really great starting points for new customers. So Braise actually has a lot of customers that don't have mobile apps at all because we have channel sets that are highly relevant. And if you go back to your kind of synthesis of everything that Brace does, you know, ultimately being an orchestration platform that helps with personalization and relevance, and then can can do that across whichever channel set makes sense,

means that, you know, we are able to sell to and work with companies that, have a wide array of different digital touch points for their customers. And that's been an important part of us being able to expand and do additional verticals as well. So when we look at that, you kind of said a few things. It was like, hey, do we need to grow existing customers? It's like, yes, and we do and we will, you know, both because we are not fully penetrated in our full product surface area across the vast majority of our existing customers, but also

even in those customers that have been with us a long time and have been, you know, using us to our fullest. and I bought it as a great example of that that you brought up, that we continue adding new channels every year as well, that they can continue to adopt and grow into, as well as additional orchestration capabilities. I haven't even touched on our interconnections to the data science ecosystem that we've been building and working on quite a bit over the last couple years.

And so, you know, a lot of growth opportunity as well as a lot of great new starting points. And I think that when you look at that kind of growth path for Braise and say, like, hey, what makes this a great stock, what makes this an opportunity that, I believe we're still very much in the early innings of. I think you look no further than just how diversified the business is already today, and then that 2,000 customer number and imagine how big that gets. As always, people on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about.

And The Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against, so don't buy ourselves stocks based solely on what you hear. I'm Mary Long. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.