Motley Fool Money - Hurricane Economics

Episode Date: September 8, 2017

Florida braces for Hurricane Irma. Equifax suffers a massive data breach. Disney sells off on earnings concerns. Restoration Hardware raises the roof. And Fitbit gets a healthy boost. Plus, Sports Illustrated columnist Andrew Brandt takes stock in the future of pro football. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And you can get unlimited expert help at no extra cost, even on nights and weekends during tax season. Visit turbotax.com to get matched with an expert today, only available with TurboTax full service experts. Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money. From Fool Global Headquarters, this is Motley Fool Money Radio Show. I'm Chris Hill, and joining me in studio this week from Million Dollar Portfolio, Jason Moser, from Supernova, David Kretzman, and from Total Income Ron Gross. Good to see you, as always, gentlemen. Hey, hey, hey. We've got the latest headlines from Wall Street, Sports Illustrated columnist Andrew Brandt is our guest this week. And as always, we're giving inside-law. look at the stocks on our radar. But we begin once again with the weather. Last week, it was Hurricane Harvey. And now, as of this taping, Hurricane Irma is bearing down on Florida. J.P. Morgan out with analysis Friday morning that estimates the economic damage of those two storms will be equal to

half of the total damage done by every hurricane hitting the U.S. since 1965, Ron. And yes, they did adjust for $2017. dollars. Oh, my goodness. We knew it was going to be bad. I don't think we were expecting it to be this bad. Yeah, and obviously our thoughts go out to everyone who's affected. Having said that, this is a business show.

So I'm going to hit it with the cold, hard facts. I tend to think that, in general, natural disasters do not have significant impacts on a national level, especially when you take into account the demand and the spending that's created by the rebuilding efforts. Typically a short term, I hate to use the word blip, but blip, if it's a short term, if it's anything that comes back later during the rebuilding time. Now, having said that, there are individual companies and industries that will be impacted in the short term and perhaps some in the medium term.

Insurance and reinsurance is the first industry that jumps out at me that will be impacted, although, unfortunately, flood insurance is typically not held by most people. And in a lot of cases, certainly from Harvey, it was a flood event where Irma is more of a wind impact that will be covered. But the industry has a lot of surplus that should be there to pay these claims. So I'm actually not too worried about the insurance stocks, although they might trade lower in the near term. Yeah, you might see some industries impacted more than others. Home Depot and lows might see more business. Use car retailers like CarMax might see some extra demand as people

look to replace damaged cars with a new or used car. And Mac, our producer, he brought up a really I think a cool story that shows some of the better sides of humanity in a crisis like this. Royal Caribbean was forced to cancel a cruise that was going from Miami to the Bahamas. Instead, they're going to take that cruise. They're going to evacuate employees and their families to safe seas until Irma passes. I think that's just a great example of a company being creative to protect their employees and their families, as well as the cruise ship, which is a very important asset for the company. Yeah, and it's interesting to see how different businesses react. You look at JetBlue

and Jep Blue offering really cheap flights for people so that they can get out of the way of Irma. Yeah, and we talk all the time about how companies will go into earnings season and the management teams will bring up weather and all of that stuff. We do make fun of that to a degree. I think when we look at storms like Irma, obviously, this is going to be very widespread reaching. If you look at the map and you can see where basically the entire state of Georgia and South Carolina could be in the the path there, if not both, at least one. But we look at those companies that can't really

necessarily make up for the sales that were lost, like restaurants, I think, are the no-brainer there. Hotels. They're not going to be able to go out there and double those sales that they missed for however long they have to stay closed. And there is the possibility that they will be closed for a long time. I mean, I remember in 89 going through Hugo, we were out of school for a month. And I mean, Irma, and I think is it Jose that's right behind Irma? I mean, this could be a really tough one. to punch. I think it's also worth looking for sort of babies thrown out with the bathwater as well. I mean, Ron was mentioning insurance companies. And the two that come to mind

immediately are Berkshire Hathaway and Markell, two of our favorites here. I know that we're going to be keeping an eye on both of those in a million-dollar portfolio because, as Ron said, this is a business show. At the end of the day, we're trying to generate returns for our portfolios and our members. And it's always worth keeping an eye out for those great quality businesses that just kind of happen to get lumped in with the sort of pain, so to speak. Yeah, and as I said, there will be companies that do benefit from the rebuilding efforts, whether those are construction materials, engineering services companies, even communication equipment companies that are going to have to replace equipment that has been destroyed.

Retailers like Home Depot, I'm sure, will fare well as well. So there are companies that could have a short-term positive impact as a result. We were talking about travel and Walt Disney World down in Florida. Obviously, it's going to be impacted as well. Speaking of Disney this week, CEO Bob Iger said that the company's profits this year will be roughly in line with last year, and the market didn't like that, Jason. No, it didn't like it. And I think the big question with Disney has been, how are they going to deal with this sort of shift in the media space as things move toward sort of over-the-top

distribution? ESPN is obviously a tremendously valuable property for Disney. I mean, it is responsible for the lion's share of the company's profits. We always talk about how they're really good at making money a number of different ways, but the question mark has always sort of been, how are they going to approach this transition? And we got a lot of clarity in regard to how Bob Iger is seeing this. He very explicitly stated his two priorities here as the CEO for the next couple of years before he calls it a day. It's to build out this direct-to-consumer business on the Disney side and the ESPN side and then to create a smooth transition for whoever his successor may be.

So we got some good hints as to how they're looking at this. And I personally am encouraged by it. I mean, you're looking at one side of the equation with all of the Disney content, building out this Disney app where you can pull all of that original content and that just stuff that they have that just makes magic for decades. The other side on ESPN, though, you know, they're going to be getting out there. I think a lot of content that is not currently really distributed via their linear channel properties. So that's encouraging. They're going to make an ad dynamic a part of the.

ESPN offering. It's not going to be part of the Disney offering. But regardless, it was interesting to see that they did actually draw a line in the sand there and say, this is the stuff that we're taking back. If you remember when they first announced this, and we were curious to how much content Netflix might still be able to have access to, it sounds like really Disney's taken it all. Yeah. And so, I mean, this is a big deal because we know Disney has been so successful for so long because of that IP they have. And we've seen Netflix sort of make that same move into acquiring their own IP. So I think it's a wise move from Disney. The biggest question is, will they be able to build out a technically sound and user-friendly product? I like their

chances. We've got a lot of good examples out there today as to how to do it. And you just look at Netflix and Amazon, for example, of two ideas out there that have really worked well. So they have what really matters in the content. It's going to take them a little while to build this offering out. But I suspect they'll do okay with it. Yeah, with Bamtech, I think that gives Disney the tech resources that they need to build out a compelling user experience, streaming platform. I think Disney is doing the right decision here. They're not going middle of the ground, doing some licensing, doing some with their own streaming

service. I think pulling all of that into their own direct-to-consumer offering is what they need to do. And the company has so many levers they can pull to get consumers into this streaming service, maybe a free trial for everyone who goes to Disneyland or Disney World. a lot of different levers there, so I think Disney can pull this off. And I think the really neat thing when they're looking at ESPN is they're really talking about going a la carte here and breaking that stuff out so that you can get exactly what you want.

I mean, we live in an on-demand world, and you can watch what you want when you want. And that applies to sports, too. Now, granted, sports does have a live dynamic, but Chris, if you could go in there and purchase just one game or access to your favorite team or a conference or something like that, they're going to break this out and make it a bit more personalized. I think that's really encouraging the right thing. Equifax, the credit reporting agency, revealed a massive data breach that exposed the personal information of as many as 143 million consumers.

And fortunately, guys, one of them is sitting here at the table. Ron? There may be more. You haven't checked. I haven't checked yet. My wife is safe. I appear to not be. This is a mess.

Two-thirds, almost a half of Americans potentially affect. credit card numbers for about 209,000 U.S. customers exposed. This is pretty big deal here. They say the breach occurred between mid-May and July. The company didn't discover it until July 29th. We're in September, though, right? Yeah, three major executives sold stock August 1st and 2nd. The company is saying that it's just a very tiny portion of their overall holdings. I'm not sure the SEC will take. that as a proper argument. This is a compliance issue from that perspective. I mean, the company should have been on lockdown once that was discovered, and there should have been no trading in the stock whatsoever, especially since we're just finding out about this now. It's appropriate that the stock is selling off. It's hard to trust a company like this where everything is really built on trust, and they are offering credit monitoring services

for those like myself who are affected, and I'm even worried about that. So not good. and they're going to have a mess to clean up. Shareholders of Dave and Busters had their single worst day ever this week when the restaurant chain posted week's second quarter earnings. So, of course, we turn to our resident David expert. Mr. Kretzman? Hey, that's what I'm here for. The quarter actually looked decent, especially when you consider the headwinds that restaurants continue to face here in the U.S. Revenue was up 15 percent, earnings per share up 18%.

David Busters has a few moving pieces. Amusements, or their arcade games, essentially, eventually within the restaurants, make up over 50% of those restaurants sales. And when you look at same store sales for amusement, those were up nearly 5% this quarter, but their food and beverage sales or their bar sales were down more than 3%. So you have kind of two different segments of the business here. They actually raise revenue and earnings guidance for the year because they're opening a couple extra stores, but they lowered their comps guidance. So they're expecting same store sales only to go up 1 or 2% this year.

You're seeing a lot of restaurants do that, but they are going to repurchase up to $100 million more stock. And you're seeing a couple other restaurants do this like Pizza Hut where they're going through a tough time, so they're doubling down on their share repurchases. I'm not sure if that's necessarily the best strategy there. So Dave & Busters is still producing positive free cash flow. As far as restaurants go, they are performing better than most. But I wonder how this company will do.

If the economy does hit some harder times, will they be able to keep people coming back to those stores for the arcade games. Yeah, I think these are all good reminders that when you're going to buy a restaurant stock, make sure you buy a restaurant where the food can kind of stand on its own. I mean, I think we're seeing a pretty phenomenal fall from Grace with Buffalo Wild Wings as well. They're not really known for this great food. I mean, they make wings, but they also have these stores with 60-plus TVs in them. Generally speaking, Buffalo Wild Wings, Dave's, these Buster Naves, these places don't really,

they're not known for the quality of their food, it's the experience. And when people aren't willing to pay for that experience, that's a real tough hurdle to overcome. Coming up, the footwear innovation we all needed in college has finally arrived. Stay right here. You're listening to Motley Full Money. Welcome back to Motley Full Money, Chris Hill here in studio with Jason Moser, David Kretzman, and Ron Gross. You can follow us on Twitter. You can join our Facebook group, which is Motley Fool podcast. And next Tuesday, you can join us for a Facebook live video event. That's Tuesday, September 12.

Apple is having their much-anticipated event to unveil the next iPhone. And when it's over, I'm going to be joined by some of our analysts here at Fool HQ. They'll be sharing their reactions, their analysis, and what it means for Apple's stock. And we'll be taking your questions. That's Tuesday, September 12th, 4 p.m. Eastern on the Facebook. Shares of GoPro up 13% this week after the company said third quarter results will be better than expected. What do you think, David? Did the stock pop match the guidance?

Well, they didn't actually raise guidance. They're just reaffirming that they'll meet the high end of the guidance they already gave last quarter. So this really seemed like an unnecessary press release. Like, just wait six weeks and give us a good news then. You don't need to issue a new press release for that. But GoPro is on the up-and-up, maybe. Their revenue should be up almost 30 percent this quarter to close to $310 million. They're being much more disciplined with expansion and managing inventory. And they have their flagship Hero 6 camera launching later this year in time for the holidays. So, company is moving in the right direction, but I'm still not super excited about the stock going forward.

They have a camera called Hero 6, and Disney hasn't sued them for infringement over the movie Big Hero 6? Hey, that might be a story for us in a couple months. On Wednesday, Restoration Hardware announced blowout earnings for the third quarter. They raised guidance. Ron, do I have this right? The stock was up nearly 60%. Yeah, 40 to 60% based on, you know, when you looked at it. This one is one of the one of the is all about perspective, though. Let's put it in context. If you bought this stock at a 2015 high of 100, and now you're at 73, you're still underwater. But if you bought it at the low, the 2016 low of 26, you're a happy camper. The company's kind of been all over

the map. Big deal here is that they've moved or trying to move to a membership model. You pay $100 a year. You get 25 percent discount on all their furniture, all their merchandise. That seems to have been gaining some good traction. They are not releasing any details. on renewal rates or membership numbers, but they're saying the renewal rates and membership growth are, quote, positive. So I guess the street likes the word positive. They're also reducing their distribution facilities to save some money from four to three. So margins are going up, earnings are going up. They say they'll produce $400 million of free cash flow by the end of the year. So things, you know, not dead yet. This company at one point was either

a value investment or a value trap, and they've certainly seemed to have to have to have rebounded, but at 28 times earnings, it's not for me. Yeah, I mean, I guess my perspective here is that I don't understand who shopped at these places. Like, I mean, we just move, for example, so I try to look at sort of where my wife's interest is for stuff around the house. I mean, I've seen Wayfair, I've seen Amazon, Home Depot, whatnot. I mean, restoration hardware just sounds like it, I don't know where it fits in anymore.

And I guess I kind of, I mean, I have to ask you, at least you feel like comfortable if not willing to release those renewal rates or member numbers. And the strategy is centering around that. That seems to be a little bit more nebulous than we like in our investment. It's potentially a red flag. They're claiming it's for competitive reasons. There's only a few companies out there call it Costco, Amazon, that really have this membership model. They don't want to release too much information to the competition. Interestingly, they're the second most shorted furniture stock in the market next to William Sonoma. So this big pop might be somewhat of a short squeeze. You know what? Good for them. Good for them, because that's right out of the

Jeff Bezos playbook. Like, what are our renewal rates? We're not going to tell you. Let's go to our man behind the glass, Steve, Broido. Steve, you're a restoration hardware guy? Yeah, I signed up for that deal, Ron. You did. I did. Yeah, we needed two mirrors for a bathroom and they would look great. What do you blame me? Like, Ron. I'm sorry, it was Jason that said. Can you feel Broido's smile? Can you feel it in here? It was a good deal, 25% off. I just have to remember to cancel it. Did you hit a store that? has the food now, they're offering like hospitality? Missed that. Missed that.

Fitbit is teaming up with medical device maker Dexcom to develop products to help people with diabetes monitor their glucose levels. What do you think, Jason? Yeah, I think this is the direction that they need to pursue. They need to do it with a sense of urgency, really, given where the company is today. Diabetes affects worldwide, around 400 million people or so. So there's a tremendous opportunity for them to do something very meaningful for a lot of people. But with that said, I think this new device, the I on,

is facing an uphill battle still. I think all things equal. If you put an Ionic next to an Apple Watch, and I can't believe I'm actually pumping the Apple Watcher, but I think most people are going to pick the Apple device. So it's the right thing to do. Apple's doing the same kind of stuff, though. I just don't know how far Fitbit can really take this. Yeah, interesting to compare Fitbit and GoPro to down-and-out harbor companies trying to gain some traction. In the case of Fitbit, they have $675 million in net cash, which is 45 percent. of their one-and-a-half-billion-dollar market cap. So, potentially a value play there if they can stop burning cash. Over the past year, shares of Adidas have outpaced Nike by more than 45 percent.

And given their latest product, it's clear that Adidas is innovating in ways that Nike just isn't. Right on time for October Fest celebrations, Adidas has unveiled a new version of its classic Munchen sneaker, which has been updated to be vomit and beer resistant. I mean, haven't we been waiting for this forever? Pizza Hut gave us the shoe where you could actually order a pizza, right? And now you've got this vomit and alcohol-resistant? Beer-resistant, yeah. It sounds great for fraternity parties.

I mean, you just put them together, and you've got it all figured out right there. You can order a pizza, and you have to worry about puking on your shoe and spelling your beer. Well, and great timing, because let's face it, October Fest celebrations, both here in the U.S. and abroad, you're going to run into that. Steve, can I interest you in a pair of these sneakers? No, thank you. Sounds filthy. You don't want to go to an October Fest celebration? Not no.

I do not. Not no. All right. Jason Moser, David Kretzman, Ron Gross. Guys, we'll see you a little bit later in the show. The NFL season kicks off this week. Up next, we'll dig into the business of football with Sports Illustrated columnist Andrew Brandt. Stay right here. This is Motley Full Money. Welcome back to Motley Full Money.

I'm Chris Hill. The NFL season kicks off this weekend. Time to talk about the business of football with Andrew Brand. He is a columnist for Sports Illustrated, and he hosts the Business of Sports Podcast. Andrew, welcome back. Always good. So in terms of off the field, because there'll be plenty to watch on the field, but off the field, what are you going to be watching this year to gauge the economic health of the NFL?

So one of the things we do at the Motley Fool when we're looking at businesses is we look at who are the people running these businesses. and the face of the NFL, in terms of its leadership, has been Roger Goodell. He's the commissioner. He recently renewed his contract through the year 2024. And if all you did was listen to so many fans around the league, it doesn't appear to be concentrated in just one particular fan base. But so many fans and also so many people in the sports media are down on Roger Goodell and his stewardship. of the NFL, and I'm wondering, first and foremost, if you think that story is overblown. To be the face of the league.

That's unrevealing, that's somewhat bland, to the task of the park. That's going to... But I think we have to dig in and say, why is this hapsch when I teach classes as I talk about a commissioner and not only gets a paycheck from them, but really is functioning as their front guy, whatever way he is. and people are upset with him for a lot of different reasons. I don't think it's something that ownership, I think there's a reason for it.

The other part of it that I'll leave here is that $30 million extent. The job description is to take the heat. Well, the Ravens didn't discipline him at all, in fact, supported him throughout. It comes down on the commissioner. I think commissioner is just that rely on him to be. So when you think about, as you indicated, You've got the owners. And even for his good standing with the owners as a group, there have been points of time

when one owner or another, one powerful owner or another, has really got Goodell in his cross-sites. Robert Kraft, who owns the New England Patriots recently. Jerry Jones, who owns the Dallas Cowboys. Look, not all owners have the same level of influence. And so those are two of the more powerful. owners, and yet Goodell gets this extension for fans who are hoping that Godell gets shown the door someday. What does that look like?

Does it take a number of powerful owners sort of banding together, or does it look like something else? Well, I think the important for Roger Goodell has what business models suggest. What he's doing is, and believe me, you, Ezekiel Elliott, treat other teams better than and they treat them. It's a universal pair of what he's dealing with. The game of football in the NFL is largely the same, the way the game is played as it was, say, 30 years ago. Yes, the players are bigger and faster. There have been some modification to the rules, but the nuts and bolts of the game of football is the same. Given that we know so much more about players' health and

safety now, particularly when it comes to concussions. Where do you think the game of football is 30 years from now? Is it still going to look about the same? Or do you think the more we know about health, the greater the likelihood the game will change? The safety issue in the game is thereby eliminate to its logical extension in 30 years. We probably won't have kickoffs. Now, we'll have a segment of the population that says, wait a minute, that's the most playing football. I do think this. I think whenever you hear about stuff, I mean, I see the violent draw to people. We lament the con-cath, but we watch. And the numbers suggest, you know, maybe with youth football, I know what opposed, but maybe on that level, I don't see any diminution

of a talent base for the NFL, and I don't see any diminution of interest in the foreseeable future. And certainly the same can be said for the money, and all you have to do is look at the online streaming rights for Thursday night games, which are typically not the marquee matchup of the week. A couple of years ago, it was Twitter paying $10 million for the online streaming rights. Amazon has up that to $50 million this year. And I'm curious how high you think this can go. And I will just add as context, Facebook just tried to pay $600 million for five years worth of rights to stream Indian cricket matches. Now, they lost out to Rupert Murdoch on that deal,

but Facebook is certainly willing to pay up to stream sports. Yeah, this is either CBS NBC or NFL network, but just streaming rights, 10 million last year. Notice a couple things, one, the increase, which you talked about, but number two, with major media company, I would not be surprised. YouTube. And then when it comes to Tet 2021 and all these network deals, they've handed out crumbs to all these mega companies, and they will be lining up at the trough. Maybe for complete rights,

but more likely, again, from Fox, CBS. Again, I just see the NFL, now media companies are having issues, social media, but I see this as a win for the, as you know better than I do. Do you think the fact that the television deals are up in 2021, do you think that makes it more likely that we will see Apple and YouTube jump in in the next couple of years for streaming rights? Yes. Why wouldn't they do more than we? We know those companies. We'll set in 2000. Give them a taste. See what programming does for them. See how many people jump on. I'd love the Twitter football because it was a one button. Think all these kind of things. And as you said, Thursday night are not even marquee games. What if you actually have?

All right, let's wrap up with the players. And obviously, beyond their salary, the opportunity for players in the NFL to make money revolves around endorsements, sports drinks, athletic apparel, video games, all that sort of thing. There is a rookie tight end for the Denver Broncos named Jake Butt. And I'm sure it's not easy growing up with your last name being but. However, he signed an endorsement deal with Charmin. You've studied the business of sports for a long time. Where does this rank on your pantheon of fantastic endorsements? Love it.

It would be more apropos for... Yeah, I mean, listen, I was an agent before beyond the super... That is one you can sell. He got hurt in a bowl game. That may be something. You know, it's interesting to me that the NFL has 16 games in the regular season, and the NBA has 82 games. in its regular season. But when it comes to the preseason, they both have the same number of games.

They both have four games. Is there any reason for that in the NFL other than money? And why has it happened? Because they can. They, the owners, can charge it. I think the issue is going to be a bargaining issue. We wonder if the NFL came and said, okay, you're going to get X more money. No preseason. Could that be palatable? So that would be the only way that... You can read him in Sports Illustrated. You can also check out his podcast. It's called The Business of Sports. It's a great listen. Andrew Brandt. Always great to talk to you. Always a pleasure. Up next, we're giving an inside look at the stocks on our radar. This is Motley Fool Monday. Friends are back for Monday night.

I've got two dollars in the chew box. As always, people on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about, and the Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against. So, don't buy yourself stocks based solely on what you hear. Welcome back to Motley Full Money, Chris Hill here in studio once again with David Kretzman, Jason Moser, and Ron Gross. It is time to get to the stocks on our radar. Ron Gross, you're up first. What are you looking at this week? I got Tanger Factory Outlet Centers, ticker SKT, although I can't figure out why. There must be a reason. It's a real estate investment trust focused on outlet malls, which is very important here in the world of troubled real estate and retail. Number two,

two outlet mall operator behind Simon property. They've increased their dividend every year since going public in 1993. Currently pay 5.7 percent yield. Not too shabby. But it's not without risk. A fair amount of cash and competition have flooded into outlet centers. And as I said, retailers are struggling somewhat. So be a little bit careful here. But I think you have both upside as well as a nice dividend. One year away from being a dividend aristocrat, yes? 25 years. Yeah. But that's being the S&P 500 to be. an official aristocrat.

Steve Broito, our man behind the glass. Question about Tanger? Are there any true outlets anymore? I feel like all that stuff gets made for the outlets, and it's just, I just feel like, oh, come on. I want the second, you know, it was at Nordstrom, and now it's marked down, and it just feels like they're making all this stuff for the outlets.

All right, it's okay, Steve. It's going to be fine. You do have to search a little bit. You want to get yourself a deal and not be scammed. I hear you, but just search around a bit. Jason Mozer, what are you looking at? Yeah, one we're looking at for the watch list, An MDP is Hasbro, Tigger AJS. In July, earnings came out. It was a pretty decent quarter. The stock has just fallen off a cliff since then. I think that's for a couple of reasons.

It had had a very good year up to that point. There were some concerns there in the international segment, particularly in the UK and Brazil, and that matters because International does account for a substantial amount of the company's profitability. But all things considered, they still have a lot going for them. Plenty of stuff coming out this holiday season with Star Wars with Frozen. Hey, kids like toys, whether it's physical or digital, and Hasbro is doing a great job on both counts. Steve? What's something in the digital space they can do that would just blow the market away? How about a digital Mr. Potato Head? Right? You just get your kid that digital Mr.

potato head. You don't have to worry about all those pieces lying around your house, a dog eating them, or you step on them. I think that would blow me away. That would blow a lot of parents away. I can't beat that. I'll go with 2U, ticker T-W-O-U. This is a software-as-a-service company that partners with colleges and universities to bring their graduate programs online. They're working with universities like Harvard, Yale, University of North Carolina, Berkeley, and others. And what I like about them is they sign long-term contracts for 10 years or more, and they take

50% or more of the tuition revenue from the students. So, interesting model, one I'm taking a look at. Steve? Favorite course from college? Beekeeping. I got the worst grade in beekeeping, but I enjoyed it. That sounds terrifying. Steve, what do you want to add to your watch list?

I'm going with the beekeeper. All right. Thank you, Steve. All right. David Kretzman, Jason, Mozer, Ron Gross. Guys, thanks for being here. Thanks, thanks. That's going to do it for this week's show.

Our engineer, Steve Broido, our producer is Matt Greer. I'm Chris Hill. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week.