Motley Fool Money - Motley Fool Money: 07.05.2013

Episode Date: July 3, 2013

We celebrate Independence Day with our “Financial Independence” special, featuring encore interviews with two of the best of the business: Dave Ramsey and Clark Howard. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to Motley Fool Money. I'm Chris Hill. This week, we are celebrating Independence Day with our financial independence special. We're going to revisit two of our favorite interviews. We'll talk to consumer advocate Clark Howard later in the show. But we kick things off by talking with Dave Ramsey. My guest this week is the author of three New York Times bestselling books and the host of The Dave Ramsey Show, which is heard every week on more than 450 radio stations by more than four and a half million listeners. Dave Ramsey, welcome to Motley Full Money.

Well, thanks, Chris. It's an honor to be on here, man. This is cool. It is an honor to have you on because our show like yours is on a lot of radio stations if you back out like 420 or so. So it's just, if you use some creative Wall Street accounting and you just sort of back it out, we're on roughly the same number of radio stations. Well, we still securitize and sell it to a hedge fund, though. Exactly.

Now, I want to talk about your radio show, but first, I want to go back to earlier in your career. By your mid-20s, you had a net worth of more than a million dollars. How did you do it? And what happened? Well, stupidity. It was a house of car. I started from nothing and I started buying and selling real estate. And this was back in the early 80s, you know, before there was people on cable TV telling you how to buy real estate.

And I grew up in the real estate business, so I was flipping houses before they even called it that. And we had started from nothing and ended up with about $4 million worth a real estate, a little over $3 million in debt, in translation of a million dollar net worth. But it was all in real estate and it was go, go, go, go, buy, buy, leverage to the eyeballs. and so it sounds very impressive, but it was pretty stupid the way I did it truthfully. And you ended up having to declare bankruptcy, didn't you? Yeah, that's the stupid part. That's where we had borrowed so much money, and then the bank got sold to another bank, and some guy in another city freaks out because a kid 26 years old owes them a million and a half,

and they call our loans, and we spent the next two and a half years of our life losing everything we own trying to pay our bills. And so we had a, you know, a meteoric rise and a meteoric crash. and learned a lot in that process. When you do something with that kind of intensity and that kind of result, even if it's of size, of scale like that, there's always some very valuable lessons that are literally seared into your soul. So what was the turning point for you in terms of turning your finances around?

Well, I've got all these letters and licenses and degrees after my name that says I'm supposed to know something about money. And there I sat broke and bankrupt and couldn't feed my kids. And so I kind of had this really. revelation that maybe some of the things I had learned were wrong. Maybe. And possibly this plan isn't going to work and have that Dr. Phil moment. How's it working for you?

And so I really went on a quest spiritually, emotionally, academically, intellectually, to determine how money, personal finance really works. And I started talking to old rich people. I'd been young and rich. I didn't want his opinion. People that had made money and kept it. And I found a completely different spirit on them, a completely different mindset. And I found this disturbing thing called common sense.

Which, as the old saying goes, is actually not all that common. Exactly. You're listening to Motley Fool Money. We're talking with Dave Ramsey, host of the Dave Ramsey show, heard coast to coast on 450 radio stations. Dave, what is, in your opinion, the single biggest mistake that people make when it comes to their personal finances. Not paying attention. They're not, as Stephen Covey says in the old book,

seven habits of highly effective people. The number one habit is to be proactive, to happen to things. If you will listen to Ramsey, listen to Ormond, listen to the fools, you know, and not concentrate on the nuances of little tiny things

where we might bump heads or something, but instead just be learning and growing and thinking about money, you'll win. The average millionaire can't tell you who got thrown off the aisle. but a bunch of broke people can. Now, do you think the whole notion of paying attention to your money?

Because it seems like money, for all of the information we have at our fingertips, money is still kind of a taboo subject. It's kind of right up there with sex in terms of taboos. We're not really supposed to talk about it all that much. I know in my house growing up we didn't really talk about money. Is that one of the challenges that people have to overcome? It is. And, you know, it's kind of like when you're growing up,

Your parents didn't talk about sex or money. You didn't think they had either. And it turns out they had both, you know. And so I think it is. And I think the other thing that happens is so many of us, I always tell audiences, if you've made mistakes with money, that makes you over 12. And so many people have made mistakes with money, and they seem to think everyone else doesn't. And so there's a tremendous amount of shame and guilt around the subject of money. And then there's these twerps who run around ripping people off.

And so there's cynicism. So you've got these three. big negative barriers, cynicism, shame, guilt. And you don't want to talk about it because you don't want to look foolish or you don't want to get sucked into something where somebody rips you off. And so it just causes people to really draw back into their own self and they don't have enough information then to win. So how do you break the ice with someone? How do you talk about it in a way? Because, you know, there are some people, some of our listeners, some of your listeners who probably have a pretty good handle on their personal finances, but maybe there's, there's someone in their life, in their family, a good friend or something like that that they think might be struggling. What's a way to break the ice and actually talk about it? Well, remember that they feel guilty or ashamed about having made mistakes. And so a real good

place to meet them is right there. Instead of coming in and saying how smart you are and wagging your finger and how dumb they are, why don't you talk about all the times that you made mistakes? And then they look at you and go, but yeah, you've got money. Yeah, I know. But I overcome the mistakes. I overcame the mistakes. I used to never do a budget. I used to never have an emergency fund. I couldn't even spell Roth, you know, but here's what I did. But I've done all kinds of dumb things too. And so don't be, don't let the dumb things freeze you and paralyze you. And gosh, if I could ever help you in any way I would, and if you'll just go in there and be comfortable enough in your own skin that you don't have to impress the people in your life, and instead just love

them where they are, they'll start asking you questions about money, and you can start answering them then. You're listening to Motley Fool Money, talking with bestselling author and radio show host Dave Ramsey. Dave, looking at America over the last couple of years in the wake of the financial crisis, do you think that we're becoming more responsible in terms of managing our money, or is it sort of back to business and credit card debt as usual? Well, this last crash was the emotional Great Depression for some people, meaning that I remember my grandfather from the Great Depression when we would go to his house. When we were taking something apart, we had to pull the nails out of a board,

straighten them out and throw them into a coffee can. He learned his lessons, and he was emotionally changed by the Great Depression. This was obviously not the Great Depression. It was a deep recession, which is a lot. of difference. So was 82. And I was around then too, so I'm not impressed. But, but, but, but this is the first time a whole bunch of 36 year olds have ever stubbed their toe. They've ever been in this kind of environment. And so it's changed the way they view things. And for some of them, they learned their lessons and have become more fiscally conservative in terms of, you know,

now I'm going to have an emergency fund. Yeah, I'm getting rid of the stupid credit card debt. And then there are some people that don't ever learn their lesson and they're just going to go right back to it. Now, we talked about how you managed and mismanaged your money earlier in your life. What about now? How do you invest your money now? Do you still invest in real estate at all? I do. I love real estate. Particularly right now, I think it's on sale. I think we're at Kmart and the blue lights on. And I'm buying it. I bought more real estate in the last year and I bought in 10 years because I just think it's a great. This is awesome. And I'm going to look like a genius in a decade. And of course, but I pay cash.

I don't borrow money. So I just, you know, that limits me on how much I can buy and what I can buy. I was looking at a deal the other day that was outside my realm and I just, I still wanted it, but I'm not doing it. So, and then I buy mutual funds. You know, I'm just a boring guy. What has been the biggest shift in the way that you think about money? From earlier, I quit looking for the magic beans. I quit looking for that one thing, you know, that, that, that, that, that, that,

that deal. And as I've met with wealthy people for two decades now doing this and literally thousands of millionaires. And you guys have to, I'm amazed at how simple their lives are. I always thought it was going to be so sophisticated and so multi-layered with some kind of weirded out estate planning tools or something that I wouldn't be able to grasp. And, you know, there is some of that that you need to do and understand. But most of the people that I know that have $10 million or more are very simplistic in their lives and in their investing. They don't have a whole bunch of things they do. They don't have some kind of weird corner on something that no one else knows about. They're just the tortoise. They're not the hair. And every time I read the book,

the tortoise beats the hair. Coming up, more with Dave Ramsey. Stay right here. You're listening to Motley Fool Money. Welcome back to Motley Full Money. We're talking with Dave Ramsey, bestselling author, and host of the Dave Ramsey Show, heard on hundreds of stations all across America. All right, Dave, it's time to tap some of that personal finance expertise of yours. I want to spot you up with a few different areas of personal finance and just sort of get, you know, one or two tips on what we should be doing. Let's start with a tip for buying a house. Make sure you're out of debt, have an emergency fund in place, and have a good strong down payment.

I love a 20% down at least because it avoids PMI and never buy a house where your payment is more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed. Where do you come down on leasing a car versus buying a car? Tom Stanley in his book, The Stop Acting Rich, has discovered that 87% of millionaires have never leased a car. So why would you? Works for me. One tip for creating a will. Do it. 78% of Americans die without a will.

That is so rude. 78%? Is that bizarre? That's a lot of people left behind with a mess. A bunch of hillbillies fighting over Mama's China. One tip for, and this is obviously a huge problem for many Americans, one tip for paying off your credit card debt. The first step to getting out of debt is quit borrowing more.

plastic surgery, get the scissors out, chop the puppies up, draw a line in the sand and say, that's it, we're grandmother, we don't buy anything unless we can pay for it. If you'll start there, then the other stuff for getting out of debt of work. And where do you come down on term life insurance versus whole life insurance? Term life insurance completely. I don't do any investing inside of a life insurance policy. Never seen one where the numbers work. One question that we get here, Robert Brokamp, who's our retirement expert here at The Motley Fool,

the question he gets a lot is about people who are trying to decide between saving for their kids' college education and saving for retirement. Where do you come down on that challenge for people? What's your advice for people in that situation? Having done literally hundreds of thousands of budgets, if you get rid of all your debt except your home, you can do both. People that ask that question are people that still have a $500 car payment. And they're choosing between their kids' college and a car payment. They don't want to frame the question that way. But mathematically, that's where it'll come down.

If you actually could put me in a corner and create this bizarre circumstance where you really did have to choose between the two, I'll choose retirement over college. because 100% of the time you're going to retire and not everyone goes to college. And by the way, while kids are in college, they can work. That's not child abuse. What a novel idea. Working while you're in college? Yes, see why I'm not popular right there. That just throws it.

You're listening to Motley Full Money. My guest is Dave Ramsey, best-selling author and radio show host. Let's talk about your radio show for a couple of minutes. What is the most common question that you get? I get a lot of relationships. and money questions. And I guess that's just because that's what we've become known for. And so husbands and wives that are not, you know, able to get on the same page. I don't get a lot of the technical questions about investing in those kinds of things. If I do, I generally get behind

that question and go into their life somewhere and find out what's going on that's causing that question before I answer it. Now, you've been doing this show for years. You're on hundreds of stations across America. What is the strangest question that you've ever gotten? And you don't have to choose just one. You can pick a couple if you want. Oh, man.

One of the ones that I just, I absolutely, we had to go to a commercial break because I lost it, was this guy who wanted to put a pay phone in his house because he could then make, he could make his calls for free. He saw that episode of the Brady Bunch too? I guess. I'm like, dude, who's putting the money in?

Dude, who's taking the money out? Who's paying for the phone line? And he still couldn't get it. And I said, if you don't pay for the phone line, there's going to be an air gap. I just started laughing so hard. I lost it. I had to go to commercial. I couldn't breathe.

Now, the big news over in England this week is obviously the royal wedding of William and Kate. Personally, I'm not too worried about the prince's financials. But what advice do you have for couples who are just starting out in terms of how they can manage money together for the first time. Well, money's the number one cause of divorce. Money fights, money problems, money stress. It's the number one thing. And if it's the number one thing, you've got to really concentrate on it. And the dreaded B word, the written budget, when you can agree on your spending monthly, that means you've agreed on your savings goals. It means you've agreed on your dreams, even in some cases identified common fears. You create a level of communication, cooperation,

unity through working together. The preacher says, and now you are one, that nothing else will do. A lot of marriage counselors use a household budget as a technique to push couples together and to make them learn to compromise and to give and take together. And so that dreaded B word,

as a part of your pre-marriage counseling, you should learn to do a budget together. This daughter of mine that's getting ready to get married, One of the ways he got his blessing from us was they agree to go through our class. And it's not just because it's our class. They need to learn how to handle money, you know, and they need to be on the same page. Even if they're going to disagree with Dave, that's fine, but they need to do it together. All right, Dave, time to wrap up with a round of buy-seller hold.

Let's start with buy-seller hold credit cards that give you frequent flyer miles. Oh, sell. Come on, they're frequent flyer miles. 78% of them aren't redeemed according to consumer reports. and try, and Delta last year published that only 14% of their requested uses of them were fulfilled. You have skills that at least some of your listeners may not know about, buy seller hold, Dave Ramsey's water skiing. Buy, I'm 50 years old and I'm still barefoot.

You barefoot water ski? Yeah. Is that just how you learned and you never stopped? No, no, it's a it's a X game, man. I mean, it's brutal. Let me ask, just because, you know, again, you've been married for a long time. Is that one of those activities that you do that your wife just sort of shakes your head at? Or if she could wave a magic wand, maybe you wouldn't be doing it?

Well, it is 40 miles an hour, and you do feel like you hit concrete when you fall. So, yeah, she probably does shake her head. However, she would have to admit that I did get her up last year on barefoot. So, you know, she can't shake her head too much. She's not addicted to it like my son and I are, though. That's impressive. And finally, it's coming out in September, but it's never too early for me to shamelessly promote something. Buy seller hold, Dave Ramsey's next book.

I am so thrilled with this entree leadership material, how we've grown our business from a card table in my living room over the last 20 years. And all the mistakes we've made, it's really funny. So I obviously, I'm just really. loving this. It's going to be a fun book. And this is, I mean, this is a different. I mean, your other books have really been very sort of practical guides to dealing with money. This is, this is a little bit of a departure for you. Yeah, a practical guide on how to run a business, how to grow a business, how to start a business. He is a bestselling author. He is one of the most popular radio shows in America. He is the one and only. Dave Ramsey. Dave, thanks so much for being

here. Well, Chris, is an honor to be with you. Thank you. This was very fun. Coming up, Clark Howard talk savings tips and travel deals and share some advice that will change the way you shave and trust me, it works. Stay right here. You're listening to Motley Full Money. Welcome back to Motley Full Money. It's our financial independence special. You can call our next guest a lot of things, including cheap. Clark Howard is heard every day on more than 200 radio stations across North America on the Clark Howard Radio Show. It's got a television show on the HLN Network, a website. and he is the author of multiple bestsellers.

His latest is Clark Howard's Living Large in Lean Times. Clark, thanks for being here. Thank you so much for having me, and I wish we weren't in lean times in America. I join you in that thought. All right, let's get to the book, Clark Howard's Living Large in Lean Times. What is something that someone can do in the next week,

the next month, and the next year to improve their finances? Let's go short term to longer term. Well, short term, every time a bill comes in over the next week, see if you can take a scalpel to it. I think that that is the area where almost immediately there's low-hanging fruit. You take all the technology bills that people might have for pay television, for cell phone, if they still have a home phone, high-speed internet. Any of these bills or bills that we just pay by. wrote. And it is amazing how much money you can reduce those costs that have just been keeping on in your life. And right now, in pay television, more than any of the other areas with monthly bills,

you can reduce your costs by easily a third right now. So typical person may be paying a grand a year for pay television. You should be able to pick up three or $400 in savings. Bam, just like that. Because subscriptions are weak right now for the two satellite players, for the cable company, and if your local phone company offers television, they're all hurting, and all they have is the ability to steal customers from each other. You call the other three players versus who you're using right now, find out their best deal, call back who you're with,

and it will shock you the bargains. you'll be offered. Now, Clark, you made your initial fortune in the travel agency business. So, let's talk travel. Give me a couple of tips for getting the best deal on a plane ticket. Well, the first key rule would travel. And I know when I say this, people think I'm kidding. But the first rule of travel is you never pick your destination first. The way travel works with the cycle of sales, you wait for the bargains that pop up. up and then you figure out why you want to go there. And the reason that's not a joke is if you think about, if you ever watch a site like

Travel Zoo or Air Guerrilla or any of those, day after day, they have these deals that pop up that are like, you've got to be kidding me. You can go to this place and that place or the other place for like no money. And so if you instead allow the deal to drive your vacation, you will end up seeing the whole world at a fraction of the cost. And I've been to every continent except Antarctica, and that has been my guide all along. In fact, once a year, I take my staff on a reward trip, wherever in the world goes on sale. And we went to South Africa earlier this year. We went to China two years ago. Last year, we went to Hawaii. And it's just wherever the bargain is, that's where we pack our

bags and go to. And if people will reorient that thinking towards the bargain first, what you pay for travel will drop by more than half. So when these screaming deals occur, you don't say woulda, could, or shoulda. You buy it right then, and you go. Now, when you get there, on the hotels, I have the hardest time getting people to go through the steps that will save you big money on hotels. But the price line ads, they're actually true. All that hype was Shatner, the bargains booking on price line are off the charts. I can't believe people would not take anything William Shatner says at face value. I mean, it's William Shatner. I know, I know. I mean, why wouldn't they book? believe it but but they should and I'll tell you I've got proof in the pudding

there's a website called bidding for travel.com and if you go there it's a message board where people post their successful bids on price line and you know what hotel you're gonna get most of the time you know what other people have bid so you never overpay and I've been traveling around the country on book tour and my publisher has given me something they never allow anybody else to do, they've given me the right to book my own travel because they know I'm going to save them so much money. And my next hotel I booked on Priceline, I booked for 42 a night. That is one smart publisher. Is that too much 42 a night? No, no. Okay. Just wanted to

make sure I wasn't overspending because I started my bid at 35 and got turned down and got turned down at 39 and ended up at 42. You're not in some creepy roadside motel out of a horror movie, though, are you? No, I'm at an airport hotel that the reviews on TripAdvisor are pretty good. You're listening to Motley Full Money. My guest is Clark Howard, author of the new book, Clark Howard's Living Large in Lean Times. All right, let's talk about a few of the other savings tips that are in the book. Let's start with don't go for the extended warranty. Oh, man. You know, it's an emotional thing. You're at the electronic store, you're buying the new flat screen, and I love all the lingoes.

the salespeople have been taught, you know, don't you want to protect your investment? Well, let me tell you, the Motley Fool is all about investing. Buying a flat screen television, that is not an investment. That is spending. And it's an emotional purchase, and buying the extended warranty with it is the biggest waste of your dough you could ever do. One thing, consumer reports has found that the flat screen televisions are unbelievably reliable. I mean, just incredibly reliable with a failure rate that has been tiny, tiny, tiny.

So why would you ensure something that is a rapidly depreciating thing anyway? Because if you bought a TV two years ago, you could buy a TV better today for a third the money. And second, you only ever ensure something that you can't afford to fix or replace. And that's a key thing. That's the the purpose of insurance. So extended warranties are all about insuring stuff that you could afford to repair or replace. Another tip you have deals with a company that we're big fans of here at the Motley Fool, and that's Costco. And you say, if you're at Costco, look for prices that end in 97. What is the magical power of 97? Well, Costco is an internal thing. Mark's items with 97 cents that are things they're closing out, that they're clearing out, and they've marked down below Costco's

hard cost in that item. The maximum any item can be marked up in Costco is 14% on brand names, 15% on their private label, Kirkland's signature. So if you see it on 97, they're taking a hit, you're getting the savings. The funny thing is it used to end in 77 cents. And I wrote about that in a prior book and they got upset with me for talking about it. So they changed it to 97. And I talked to the CEO and he said they've given up. They know that whatever they change it to, I'll talk about that too. Oh, and Sam's Club does it a different way. Sam's Club does anything that ends in a penny. So 41 cents, 91 cents, 71 cents, anything like that is the equivalent of a markdown at Sam's Club. You know, I've had the chance to interview Jim Sinigal, the CEO,

of Costco and I really wish I had been a fly on the wall for the conversation for that conversation between the two of you. Well, he's a great guy. He doesn't quite get me, but he's a great, great guy. And he really does have that spirit that I hope survives his retirement, which is that everything they focus on, everything is the employee and the member. And the stockholders, interestingly enough, the stockholders come in third place in that mix, and that's always upset Wall Street. In fact, Wall Street refers to Costco cynically as the world's largest co-op. But the truth is that people know that Costco has integrity, they trust it, and over time they've grown and grown and grown and grown

and ultimately been a good investment for stockholders in spite of the fact that the stockholders come in third. Another savings tip from your book, Reuse Disposable Razors. Yeah, I'm on the same razor since March. It's a 17-cent razor. And all you do is you dry the razor after you use it each time because the only thing that degrades the razor is moisture, not the active shaving. My last razor lasted a year. and I had a photo shoot this morning, and the makeup artist knew I did this with the razors, and she says that this razor's done. Her opinion was, I wasn't going to make it a year with this one. This one's only going to make it, what, five months or whatever, that I needed to bail on it.

But I'm not quite ready to give up on it. I'm kind of in pain just thinking about this. I think I trade out my razor every couple of weeks. Yeah, and you're probably. probably using one of those way overpriced multi-blade razors, right? Yes, I am. All right. So try it my way.

This is like an intervention. Dry that blade for each time after you use it. Just dry it with the towel. Okay. See if you don't stretch that two weeks to four or six without any nicks or cuts. I bet you that I'm going to save you money because where I pay 17 cents for a blade, you're throwing away $3 a blade. feel really bad for you.

Yeah, but I'm not cutting myself like I'm sure you are. I do not. As soon as I hit the point that I'm going to nick or cut, that blade's done. Now, that may take seven or eight months for that to happen, but at that point, I'll give up on that blade. More with Clark Howard coming up. You're listening to Motley Fool Money. Welcome back to Motley Full Money.

It's our financial independence special. You're listening to Motley Full Money talking with Clark Howard. his latest book is Living Large in Lean Times. It is already a New York Times bestseller. Clark, what do you think is, I know there are a lot of mistakes that we all make when it comes to personal finance, and clearly I'm making one with my expenditures in the realm of shaving. But what do you think is the single biggest mistake? Cars. Really?

Running away from the pack. You know, being like having a Kentucky Derby where the first horse wins by 30 lanes. because cars are the second biggest expense in our lives after housing, and we tire out of a car before the car wears out. And cars are incredibly expensive part of our lives. If you think of it, when you buy a new car, the typical person cycles out of that car after it's three, four years old. Many times, they're not even done with the loan on the car they took out. And so it's like flushing money down the toilet every single month. If someone can change the cycle and keep a car longer, and the ultimate goal would be with a new car, keep it 10 years, you totally change your long-term

financial future. What do you do for yourself with cars? Do you own a really old car? Do you lease? Well, I... Did you just cuss at me? Are we allowed to cuss? I think I heard the word lease. We do not, in polite company, use that word. Wow, that's, the next time I'm at the Howard household, I will keep that, I'll keep my tongue in check. Yeah, we're going to wash your mouth out with soap on that one. But I'll tell you, the people who do lease are doing a giant favor for the next buyer. My thing is I like to buy used cars. My wife and I, we have very different values in cars. I have an old Zion X-B and a Prius. and my wife, my Prius, I converted into a plug-in hybrid, so it's a battery-powered car completely. My wife, though, likes really, really fancy cars, but she buys them when they're three years old after somebody's lease them.

And so the first buyer covers half or more of the value of that, the lease, the person leases it at first, covers half or more of the value of the vehicle. My wife picks them up for a song. So if you like really nice cars, especially, buying them used is the ultimate bargain. Now, you and your wife have children. Three. What are some things that you've tried to teach your kids about money that parents like me can pass along to our kids? Well, I'll tell you, kids pick up a lot.

My six-year-old has just turned six. said to my wife when he got a birthday card from Toys R Us, he went straight to my wife and he said, Mom, can we go to Toys R Us? Because I know Daddy will only let us go to Dollar Tree. So my kids, he knows which parent to work. Exactly. Exactly. Kids learn that. But all three of my kids, I have a 22-year-old, a 12-year-old, a six-year-old. And at their various stages of life, all of them have picked up stuff from me and more or less in ways to handle money differently than maybe their friends do. And I remember my 22-year-old when I got her first cell phone, her friends would say, what cell phone company are you

on? And she'd tell them what company. They'd say, what is that? And it was funny because I'm always looking for the best deal. And my kids, piece by piece, bit by bit, learn that. And they learn that the benefit of that is that you have money left at the end of the month. But the thing I do for my kids that I think is something any parent who can afford it should do is the daddy match or the mommy and daddy match or whatever you want to call it, that if your kid is working in the summer, working part time at school, that, every dollar he or she saves, you match it with a dollar into a Roth account. And you use it as a bridge to teach the concept of deferring wants, saving money, and teach what a mutual fund is,

an index fund, an investment account. You're listening to Motley Full Money? I guess is Clark Howard, author of the new bestselling book. Clark Howard's Living Large in Lean Times. Before we wrap up with a round of buy-seller hold, I have to ask, if Clark Howard, Dave Ramsey, and Susie Ormond go out to dinner, who's picking up the check? Oh, always me. Always you? Always me. Because then I would make sure, since I was picking up the check, I would make sure that we went to a very affordable restaurant. Hopefully one that I've got a coupon for. Fantastic. But, you know, I I would ride, let's say we were in New York, I'd arrive on the subway, and they'd each arrive by limo. That's the difference.

All right, let's wrap up with a ride of buy-seller hold. Buy-seller hold the future of Social Security. Buy. Social security is going to require nips and tucks, but Social Security's with us for the future. In spite of the fact that people under age 50 don't believe it's going to be there, it will be there, just not as generous. Buy-seller-hold debit cards. Sell, sell, sell. Debit cards are garbage.

I call them the piece of trash, fake Visa and Fake MasterCard. They're poison for your pocketbook. You don't have good consumer protections with them. Either use credit cards or use cash. Don't sugarcoat it, Clark. Tell me what you really think. I'm sorry. You want to be more opinionated on that?

And finally, buy-seller-hold, a movie based on the life and extreme savings of Clark Howard. Sell, nobody wants to watch that. Really? Nah, pretty dull guy. There are many, many, much more interesting people than I am. Look, we've got multiple Transformers movies. I'm pretty sure we could make a movie about the life and extreme savings of Clark Howard.

I don't know. Let's say on the same night, a movie about the Kardashians opened and I opened. And you know how you might have a 14-screen multiplex? Yes. They put the little art film on the little screen, and then they take as many of them as they need for the others. It would be Kardashians 13 and me in the little art room screen. Who do you think your wife would like to see cast as you in this mythical Clark Howard movie? Oh, absolutely, without question, Jerry Seinfeld.

Really? Yeah, because it's funny, when I walk around New York, he and I look enough alike that I get all these headings. turns. Do you ever get asked for an autograph and just sign it, Jerry Seinfeld? I had the worst thing happened. This couple came up to me and said Seinfeld. And I said, no, I'm sorry. I'm not him. And so I'm still shopping. And then they come back and they start screaming at me. It would have been a perfect thing in a Seinfeld episode. They're screaming and yelling at me that they know I'm Seinfeld and I'm the rudest guy ever that I'm trying to pretend I'm not. So that would be who my wife would want to play my part. The book is Clark Howard's Living Large and Lean Times. It is already number three on the New York

Times bestseller list. Get a copy. It will change your life for the better. Clark Howard, thank you so much for being here. Thanks. Have a great day. Thanks, Clark. Sure. By the way, you should tell people to get my book in the library. Then they don't have to pay for it. Clark's shaving tip really works. I have been using the Razor for about six months now. That's it for this week. Our show is produced by Mac Greer. Our engineer is Steve Broido. I'm Chris Hill. We'll see you next week.