Motley Fool Money - Navigating the Housing Market’s Mixed Signals

Episode Date: September 25, 2025

Investors looking at housing and homebuilders are probably wondering what to make of the seemingly contradictory messages out of the housing market. In this episode, Tyler, Matt, and Jon drill down into the confounding numbers in the housing market and some recent homebuilder earnings reports. Also, they react to Starbucks restructuring and serve up some stocks on their radar. Tyler Crowe, Matt Frankel, and Jon Quast discuss: - Starbucks unveils a $1 billion restructuring plan - The good, the bad, and the outlook for homebuilder stocks. - Stocks on our radar. Companies discussed: SBUX, CMG, KBH, LEN, MIAX, FND, TTD, ICE, SPGI, NDAQ, HD, LOW, AMZN, DHI Hosts: Tyler Crowe Guests: Matt Frankel, Jon Quast Engineer: Bart Shannon   Advertisements are sponsored content and provided for informational purposes only. The Motley Fool and its affiliates (collectively, "TMF") do not endorse, recommend, or verify the accuracy or completeness of the statements made within advertisements. TMF is not involved in the offer, sale, or solicitation of any securities advertised herein and makes no representations regarding the suitability, or risks associated with any investment opportunity presented. Investors should conduct their own due diligence and consult with legal, tax, and financial advisors before making any investment decisions. TMF assumes no responsibility for any losses or damages arising from this advertisement. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A housing market deep dive with predictions and more. This is Motley Fool Money. Welcome to Motley Fool Money. I'm Tyler Crow, and today I'm going to be joined by longtime Fool contributors, John Klaus and Matt Frankel. Now, I know we call it earnings season, but earning season never really ends because there's always somebody reporting something.

And we've actually had a couple home builders report recently. So we're going to use this as a chance to dive into the industry, and we'll also wrap up today with stocks on our radar. But we're going to start the day with a fresh serving of news that Starbucks is planning a major restructuring. The company announced it will cut its North American store count by about 1%, lay off about 900 employees, and it's all part of a $1 billion restructuring program to hopefully recharge a brand that perhaps people thought that the coffee had gone a little bit stale at Starbucks. Now, guys, I have conflicting thoughts about this. On the one side, not throwing good money after poor returns is always preferred, hence

the store count reduction. But I don't think contraction was really on people's minds when they brought Brian Nickel in over from Tripoli to write the ship. So where do you land on this news? And bonus to the question, what is your preferred coffee spot and preferred order? I think that Starbucks, optimist. had hoped that we could keep all of these Starbucks stores and just simply get better efficiency out of them.

I think that was the hope bringing in Nickel that it would just be better operations for all the stores. Nickel is basically saying that some of these stores don't fit into the vision for the company going forward, so not all of them can be saved. They really want to promote this coffee house vibe where you come in, you stay a while, and some of the stores he's saying are not conducive for that.

So they're going to go. this is a pricey move, a billion dollar price tag. Much of it is going to happen this year, but there's going to be some ongoing expenses into next year. So not exactly what we had hoped for, but maybe a thing that has to happen. And they are saying we're going to get back to net unit growth next year. So maybe it all is a net positive in the end. I'm generally a fan of this move as a Starbucks shareholder.

Brian Nicol, he previously has already said that not all of Starbucks stores have a place in his new vision for Starbucks. For example, there are a bunch of stories that are drive-through and pickup only and don't have anywhere to sit. And that's not what he's going for with the back-to-Stabucks plan. And it's also important to mention that, yes, it's contraction, but this will only reduce the North American store account by about 1%. So it does appear to be very targeted.

And I can tell you myself, there are about 10 Starbucks within a 20-minute drive of where I'm standing right now. And there are a couple of them where I go in and I say to myself, how does this place make any money? So I'm totally a fan of if there's no reasonable way to turn it around to get rid of a location. The company did say that its store count will resume growth in fiscal 2026, so this does seem temporary. And to me, directing the company's resources at parts of the business that have the most potential is a good thing. Now, about my coffee order, admittedly, I was sipping a Starbucks cold brew while I was prepping for this show.

But I generally prefer smaller independent coffee shop. I was in New York City this weekend. And I went to a place called 7-8-7 coffee and got a horchata latte that was delicious. So generally, I mean the independent coffee person. And we still don't know what John's order is. Man, y'all are way too fancy for me. What is black coffee at the gas station? Well, I mean, my preference is a double espresso black, so I'm not that far off from you.

And I don't know if that makes me a preferred or a hated customer at Starbucks. So decent ideas, some good, some bad here. Let's put some actual conviction behind these views here, guys. based on Nichols' plan here, some restructuring, some of the vision for bringing back that third place vibe that Starbucks kind of really wanted to achieve early on in its vision of the coffee house and may have strayed from that. Are you bullish on Starbucks the stock over the next three to five years after Nickel gets to implement this plan? Or if not, are there alternative coffee or restaurant stocks that you think we'll do better than Starbucks? Well, I'm certainly not bearish on Starbucks. I mean, Starbucks is such a great brand. It's been a great brand for a long time. And then in Brian Nicol, you have a great operator. So I think it's hard to be bearish with that combination. That said, it's hard to be overly bullish, as in market beating bullish for Starbucks right now just because of how many unknowns there are still with the business. There's still ongoing inflation with coffee prices. It's trying to make moves with its China business. But what exactly that's going to be? We still don't know. And maybe. there's still some pricing adjustments that need to happen on the menu. That's one of the

problems from previous management that Nickel might be still working out. So it's hard to know for sure how much upside there is with Starbucks, but certainly I wouldn't bet against it. Yeah, I've bought Starbucks in the time since Nickel joined, generally on price drops and corrections. And I'm generally bullish. I don't think he'll replicate his Chipotle returns. That wouldn't be a very realistic target. But I'll go on record years predicting Starbucks will beat the market over the next five years. The early results are strong. Yes, same store sales declines are continued. They've moderated nicely and all the numbers are trending in the right direction. So I'm very optimistic. All right. Well, we got one person on a record say we got a market

beating stock in Starbricks here. Coming up next, we're going to make sense of the really mixed signals we're seeing the housing market coming up after this ad. The old adage goes, it isn't what you say. It's how you say it. Because to truly make an impact, you need to set an example and take the lead. You have to adapt to whatever comes your way. When you're that driven, you drive an equally determined vehicle, the Range Rover Sport. The Range Rover Sport blends power, poise, and performance. Its design is distinctly British and free from unnecessary details, allowing its raw agility to shine through. It combines a dynamic sporting personality with elegance to deliver a truly instinctive drive.

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And home builders tends to be a hidden gems-esque type investment out there with a couple, certainly in the Hidden Gems universe, there's some homebuilders. So we get permission to do that since they're in the universe. I think it's fair to say that housing has been giving a lot of mixed signals lately. I mean, there's persistent reports about shortages of homes, somewhere in the millions, but then we look at existing home sales that are at the same seasonally adjusted pace we saw in the depths of the Great Recession or in the early 1990s, when there were like less 100 million fewer people in the United States. You know, there's a lot of factors here. We got interest rates,

we got employment, wage growth, home price inflation, et cetera. So we really wanted to get into a deeper dive of this topic. And it gave us a really good time because we've had a couple of recent earnings reports from Lanar and KB Home really before earnings get to kick off. So we get to focus on this a little bit more than we normally would. So Matt, I want you to kick us off after reviewing KB and Lanar's most recent earnings report, what were some of the things that stood out to you in these earnings reports? And did they send any, like, significant signals to you about the broader market? You know, first of all, I love these companies that have irregular fiscal years.

They keep us busy between earnings season, for sure. Overall, the market environment still seems to favor new homes versus existing ones. John's going to talk about some of the incentives in a minute that are in the market. Although mortgage rates are still relatively high and are keeping things, generally slow overall. But while existing home sales were virtually flat, month over month, and year-over-year in August, new home sales soared by 20 percent from July to August to a three-year high, much better than was expected. Now, the recent results are mixed. You mentioned KB and Lenar. KB just reported earnings in revenue. They exceeded the company's guidance, although

home sales declined by 7 percent year-over-year. The company's been a great capital allocator. They bought back 11 percent of their outstanding shares this year. That's pretty remarkable. On the other hand, Norah reported a 12% increase in new orders, although they're using more incentives so their sales prices were down significantly. Yeah, I wanted to give a little extra context on that new homes booming, existing home sales kind of stagnating. You know, this is one of those. Today, I'm this year, many years old when I found out, like, according to the St. Louis Federal Reserve, homes owned without a mortgage recently hit the highest recording since they started keeping track of it back in the 1980s. That will mean that somebody's probably been in the residence.

and for 30 plus years have paid down that amortizing mortgage. Downsizing something that used to be more common for older homeowners isn't really happening. And so we have all this owned homes out there. And that's really, I guess you could say putting sand in the gears, excuse me, of the existing home market. And new homes have to fill the void. So, John, like, how are the home builders doing when it comes to filling that void? Yeah, it's interesting. You do need to bring new buyers into the market.

Shout out to KB. Holmes. It seems to be doing pretty. well in that regard. It said that half of its homebuyers are actually first-time homebuyers, so doing a good job there. But one of the things that these home builders are doing is incentivizing these purchases for a new home. And this is according to the National Association of Home Builders, more than one-third of builders cut their prices in August, and two-thirds offered incentives. And that incentive deal was actually the highest in five years. So we're seeing an uptick there. Let me give you a real-life example of what that could look like.

This is from real literator.com talking about a Dallas couple. They got a DR Horton new home, and they got a lower rate at 3.9% versus 6.3% is what they should have gotten at the time. Their down payment was reduced from 20,000 to 13,000, and the final price of the home was reduced from 370,000 to 332,000. So, essentially, they were able to save $50,000 up front, and then hundreds of dollars per month on an ongoing. basis because the interest rate was lower. So why are they offering incentives? Well, they're trying to get people into the homes. And it's interesting. I don't know, Matt, maybe you have thoughts here on whether or not this is a signal of weak demand counterintuitively. New home sales are going up, but it's through the incentives. Another thing to note here is the Census Bureau

noted that new housing starts were down 6% year over year in August. So what's going on here, Matt? Yeah, well, you don't have to tell me about DR Horton's incentives. I'm actually standing in a DR Horton home as I'm recording this, and it was because they incentivized us to buy it in a few different ways. To Tyler's point, home equity is at an all-time high. It makes sense that a lot more people are in their house is free and clear. But I push back on the demand thing. It's not necessarily that demand is weak.

The demand for housing, especially entry-level homes for the younger generations, is off-the-chart charge strong, but affordability is what's keeping people on the sidelines for now. Affordability and lack of inventory. Builder incentives are a great tool for competing against the historically low levels of existing home inventory, giving people an attractive alternative like those incentives you mentioned. In a normal housing market, about 10% of sales are new homes. Right now, it's closer to 30. Lanar even said in its earnings release that, quote, achieving these results required additional incentives. So it's definitely a big part of what's driving the growth for a lot of home builders right now. Look, I'm just going to throw this out there. Yes, it looks like they,

you know, big price cuts, but, you know, there might be a possibility that the initial price that was given was perhaps a little bit high so it could look like we're giving somebody a great big cut. So let's keep that in a little bit of context here because, you know, every once in a while you do things to grease the skids like that. So it kind of, you get that. to really lay the background of what we're looking at, the housing market right now. Existing home sales are slow. New home sales volume is okay, but demand is really high. But it's taking a bit of greasing the skids in the form of incentives, maybe making it look like people got a great deal, just to get them to sign on the dotted line. Home builders are doing mostly

better than expected. And look, if we're looking at stock prices, a lot of these trade for really cheap valuations. We're talking price-to-earnings ratios in the single digits. which is quite low. So let's put our necks out there. Do you two see the home builders as a sector going to outpace the market over the next five years? Tyler, I won't comment on the entire sector. Maybe I can just comment on KB Home symbol KBH.

And so you talk about greasing the skids. This is a company that doesn't seem to be greasing the skids, at least not as much as some of its competitors. It's not really offering those incentives, perhaps because it is more of a customized home builder, and it's actually trying to get those customizations up, those build-to-order homes. And so that's helping it with its profit margins.

Yes, demand, perhaps, or at least revenue maybe is a little bit down. But you look at the valuation of the stock, as you point out, quite cheap. It's been able to take advantage of this with strong profits and reduce that share count by 25% in recent years. And it pays the dividend. I like KB Home here. Yeah, Tyler and I have talked about this. this on previous shows, that it's a really good profit environment for home builders. I think

Tyler's put it, you have to be an idiot to not make money as a home builder right now. The reason is that home prices in general or home values have risen a lot faster than the cost of constructing a home. So builders have, not only, you know, are they pricing some of that into their normal price, but they're also, you know, there's a lot more room in the margins to kind of wiggle around with. So it's still a good profit environment for home builders. As far as the next five years, I'd give that a big yes, with the caveat that over the next five years, mortgage rates are going to be significantly lower than they are today on average. If that's the case, and we see some of this pent-up demand for especially entry-level homes come back into the market, there's a lot to like

about the home-building space right now. I'll put mine out there, too. Look, as you said, I think that profitability has been great, and even the dumber of my two dogs could be a home-builder CEO and probably make a pretty good return in this business. But I don't know if I want to put my neck out for the whole home builder industry because there's a couple of them out there that are run by my dumber dog. So I think there's a lot of great companies in this industry. And I think picking some of the group winners is going to do incredibly well. One company I have followed for a long time, and I know it's in the Hidden Gems universe is GreenBric Partners, ticker GRBK. But to stick my neck out there for a lot of the bad operators in this industry that could drag it down. I don't. I don't.

want to do that. I want to pick the good ones. With that in mind, we're going to take a quick break, and then after that, we're going to do stocks at our radar. These days, I'm all about quality over quantity, especially in my closet. If it's not well-made and versatile, it's just not worth it. That's honestly why I love Quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful, and the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high-quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, silk and organic cotton poplin. They work directly with safe ethical factories and cut out the middlemen so you aren't paying for brand markups or fancy stores, just quality clothing. Everything they make is built to hold up season after season and is consistently

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our hosting of Motley Full Money, but we're going to do our best to make stocks on our radar as a regular part of our Thursday Hidin'Jum Show. So we're going to go around the whole. And actually this week, I'm going to start off with stocks on our radar. And the company that's been really peaking my interest lately is Miami International Holdings, ticker MIAX. This is actually a company that IPOed not too long ago, I think a couple months ago. This is a company that has established exchange markets for equities, options, futures, commodities, and all the other things that we love to trade on a given basis.

You know, you probably don't see a lot of stocks listed on the Miami Exchange like you would, the New York Stock Exchange or NASDAQ, but MIAX is a big player in the Options Exchange game, where it's actually the world's third largest options trading platform, actually above the New York Stock Exchange. It's also been making inroads with derivatives and ETF trading through its partnership with Bloomberg to build out indices. And the multi-strategy head funds like Citadel and Susquehanna, some of the largest option traders in the world by volume are 5% owners of the company. I find this company fascinating because exchange market companies like Intercontinental Exchange, S&P Global, NASDAQ, the business, they bet great businesses over the long term.

So I'd like to see if Miami International could be one of the companies that replicates the success we've seen with exchange markets. So with that, John, you're up. Yeah, I love that, Tyler. That one's going on my watch list now. Thank you. I'm going to stick with our home theme. And I'm going to go with floor and decor holding stock.

This is symbol F&D. This is a stock that I think will double in value over the next five years. And that's especially if the interest rates go down like Matt is talking about. So if you look at the stock price as of this taping, it is only up 3% over the last five years. But let's watch the business, not the stock. So revenue has doubled over the last five years, even though the stock price is essentially gone nowhere. You look at what it's wanting to do here. This is a home improvement retailer specializing in flooring products, has just over 250.

stores now. It's looking to double that footprint over the next seven-ish years, let's say. So there's a growth opportunity here, and it trades at essentially the same price to sales ratio as lows. It's much cheaper than Home Depot, even though its growth prospects are much better. I think that as interest rates come down, historically, that's when people can tap into that home equity, take out a he lock, replace their flooring, do these projects. I think this is going to be a boom at some point over the next five years as it grows this store print as well. So this is one that I really like here. It's one that I already own, but it's one that I'm thinking to add to at these prices. I love John's pick because I've said this before on shows. I think as mortgage rates follow,

the refinancing boom we're going to see from people who bought homes at 7, 8% mortgage rates is going to be huge. And there's a lot of companies that can benefit from that. For me, the Trade Desk, TTD, is what's jumped to the top of my watch list lately. Even after its post-earnings plunge, the stock even got worse. Now it's about 67% below its 52-week high. The quote, disappointing third quarter guidance wasn't nearly as bad as it looked. It was really a tough comp because the trade desk benefited from a lot of the election cycle advertising in the same quarter in 2024 that didn't get in 2025 for obvious reasons. I think the fears about Amazon stealing its market share are ridiculously overblown. And it's essentially trading where it was in mid-2020,

kind of like floor and decor, like John said, although the business is far stronger now than it was back then. So that's one that I am watching very, very closely right now. So there you have it, Miami International, Trade Desk, and Floor and Decor for stocks on our radar. Unfortunately, that's all the time we have for today. Check in tomorrow where John's going to be joining the team for tomorrow's show along with Travis Hoyum and Lou Whiteman, and they're going to cover something. But for today, Matt, John, thanks for sharing your thoughts and ideas.

I'm going to hit the disclosure and let's get out of here. As always, people on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about, and the Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against, so don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. All personal finance content follows Motley Fool editorial standard and not approved for advertisers. Advertisements are sponsored content and provided for informational purposes only. To see our full advertising disclosure, please check it out from show notes.

Thanks for our producer Bart Shannon. For Matt, John and I, thanks for listening, and we'll chat again soon.