Motley Fool Money - The Unsinkable Shopper

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

Black Friday showed consumers are still ready to buy. (00:21) Jason Moser and Deidre Woollard discuss: - Black Friday’s strong results. - The rise of mobile shopping. - If anyone can challenge Amazon’s reign as the holiday leader. (17:03) Ariel Adams, founder of aBlogToWatch, talks with Alex Friedman about the luxury watch market. Claim your Stock Advisor discount here: www.fool.com/mfmdiscount Companies discussed: AMZN, SHOP, WMT, PYPL, AFRM, AAPL, RACE, CFRH.F, LVMH, SWGAY Host: Deidre Woollard Guests: Jason Moser, Alex Friedman, Ariel Adams Producer: Mary Long Engineers: Dan Boyd, Rick Engdahl Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It's Cyber Monday. Are people clicking Add to Cart? Motley Fool Money starts now. Welcome to Motley Fool Money. I'm Deidre Willard here with Motley Fool analyst, Jason Moser. Jason, how was your Thanksgiving? It was wonderful, Deidre. It was wonderful.

Lots and lots of food, lots and lots of football, lots of rest. It just was the trifecta of winning there. How about yours? Pretty good. Thank you. And now it's like the holiday part is over. Now the shopping part has begun or began as soon as the stores opened on Friday. At least they're not opening on Thursdays anymore for the most part.

I don't know about you, but I mean, I get kind of skeptical about Black Friday and Cyber Monday. It feels like these made-up holidays to promote consumerism. But man, the deals are tempting me this year. There are some deep discounts. How about you? Are you tempted? There are some deep discounts. You know, I have been tempted, and I actually already made at least one purchase because my wife explicitly told me what she wanted this year, which really took a lot of stress off of me because I'm every year trying to figure out exactly what do I get her.

Thankfully, this year, it sounds like I've gotten her exactly what she wanted. But, yeah, I think that, you know, it feels like Black Friday and Cyber Monday were certainly more meaningful several years back. Like, if you go back and you listen to Market Fullery, for example, right? our podcasts that we used to have here for many, many years. And every year with Market Fullery, we certainly watch that trend play out in real time, right? We talk about the fact that these holidays just kept getting longer as opposed to just being one day. Now it feels like every day is almost Black Friday, Cyber Monday. And you've got Amazon pulling levers with Prime Day every year right now going into multiple prime days per year.

So it does feel like it's a little bit less meaningful. Just in regard to the specific day, I mean, if you look at that Shopify data, you know, you mentioned people shopping earlier and earlier. Shopify data survey they did in partnership with Gallup found that Americans in particular, actually, are starting earlier than ever. 41% said they started shopping in October, and another 39% said they're going to be shopping at the beginning of November. I mean, this is for the holiday season, right? So there's no question that the consumer is starting earlier and earlier, and that just is a trend

that keeps continuing on. I find it funny that they still call it Black Friday when it's already starting way, way ahead of that. They're still attached to the name, but yeah, it is very interesting because you mentioned Amazon and Prime Days. Those are in early October, so people get started now. And yet there's still this need to continue to juice the results. And it, you know, it kind of works.

I mean, Adobe Analytics, they had their data that came out on Black Friday spending. People spent almost $10 billion online up about 7.5% year over year, which really surprised me. And so much of that now, just over half of it is coming from people shopping on their phones. Like people aren't even going. I mean, Cyber Monday used to be you go to the desktop or the laptop. Now you just whip out the phone. It's a whole different world, isn't it? It is.

It's a much different world. And we've been very critical of businesses that have sort of put that mobile strategy on the back burner. They're really paying the price now. I mean, remember years ago, that was one of the big question marks in regard to Facebook, right? I mean, making that leap from desktop to mobile, and there was skepticism that they could do it. Who's going to want to fiddle with all of that stuff on such a small screen? But what we've seen very quickly is the companies that were thoughtful about this that started early

really have been able to capitalize. And it's everywhere from retail to social media to pizza, right? I mean, look at Domino's and Papa John's. I mean, you know, I mean, probably not number one or two on my list if you're giving me the choice of pizza, but they're perfectly fine options, very convenient. And their apps make it so easy to buy, right? I mean, just the mobile experience is one that has really taken front and center. And I suspect that'll continue. Well, and this relates to your war on cash, too, because it's the fintechs that are making all of this happen.

Because it used to be, I mean, if I had to sit there and plug in my credit card every single time, that I wanted to buy anything on my phone, I would not do it. No. No. I think most people would agree with you. I know, I certainly would. Payments is clearly a big point of focus in any mobile strategy. What we've seen as this is evolved, it's companies that are putting all of their eggs into one payments basket. That's likely leaving money on the table. There's plenty of evidence out there that shows that customers who get all the way to checking out, right? They've got their shopping cart full. They're ready to check out. If their preferred payment option is not there, right? Or if there's too much friction in the payment process,

those shopping carts are often abandoned. I mean, there's plenty of data to support that. And so these companies are going back to the drawing board and saying, you know what, we're not just going to saddle up with Apple pay. We're not going to just saddle up with PayPal. We're going to do it all. And then what's even more interesting is to see things like Apple with Apple pay bringing more partners into their ecosystem, right? I mean, bringing PayPal and Venmo into the Apple wallet, right? Google Wallet doing the same thing with PayPal and Venmo. And you got Venmo on Amazon, right? You see companies like Shopify really benefiting from building out that payment solution. They talked about Shopify from the third quarter alone, right? This doesn't even have anything

to do with the holiday season. 32.8 billion dollars of gross merchandise volume was processed on Shopify payments in the third quarter. That was up 31% from a year ago. Now, Shopify payments is powered by Stripe, but the point remains, right? Providing that frictionless payment solution makes all the sense in the world. Etsy doing the same thing. Etsy payments reaching into new international markets in offering every payment option under the sun. And so it really does feel like the companies that are focused on giving consumers as much choice as possible are likely going to benefit the most. Yeah, Etsy is one of those that, boy, I saw a lot of Etsy ads.

They're trying to make it this time. Let's steer it in on Shopify a little bit because they put out some data, a good Black Friday for them, new record, $4.1 billion in sales. They also have this fun tool on Shopify. It's like a Black Friday, Cyber Monday thing where they have a globe and it shows you all of the sales pinging back and forth. It's fun. But one of the things they reported that was interesting is that 15% of the sales are

cross-border. Black Friday and Cyber Monday traditionally sort of a year. U.S. thing, but it seems to me like it's, we're exporting our consumerism, aren't we? Yeah, I think so. I think that's fair to say. Part of the goal with retail in general is to open yourself up to the largest market opportunity possible, right? I mean, it's a big world out there. And I think phrases like fire sale and deep discounts translate universally. But, I mean, look at it from a global perspective in sort of steering away from our Black Friday, Cyber Monday stuff. Look at Singles Day across much of Asia, right?

That has obviously been a very popular event in Asia, but it's starting to work its way more and more into Europe and here in the U.S. Cross border. I mean, that phrase right there, just that term, cross-border, always a big point of the conversation with Visa and MasterCard earnings all year round, not just the holidays, but all year round. Those companies are witnessing tremendous growth in transactions and dollar volume being spent cross-border. And then just sort of a funny little story I found in sort of digging into this a little bit. The story I found on Slate earlier, there's this Plaza Lama. It's a home goods and grocery store in the Dominican Republic. They're pushing these sales all November long.

Now, the founder of this superstore, right? It's a Dominican superstore. It's what's called the CEO, I'm sorry, of Plaza Lama, said an interview. They started hyping Black Friday back in 2013, right? when that term was not something that was really used across retail in the Dominican at all. But the reason he sort of saw around that corner was he realized the popularity that it was gaining here in the U.S. in recognizing that sort of following the U.S.'s lead in regard to retail consumerism, there could be some benefit to that.

And certainly Plaza Lama is witnessing benefits from that as well, is participating in this holiday season. Let's talk a little bit about Amazon because, you know, we can't talk about all these holidays without talking about Amazon. We already mentioned that they started, you know, they started it off with prime days. Now there was a report in the Wall Street Journal. They are, they're basically the biggest shipper in the country now. You know, it's not UPS or FedEx leading the charge. It's Amazon. Is there anything do you think that could ever stop the rush of Amazon?

I mean, we're all so engaged in it now as part of it. of our shopping experience. I mean, Etsy tries to take share of it. Everything, Walmart trying to take share of it. Is there anyone, is there really anybody that can ever come for the throne? Well, I, if, I would think at some point or another, yes. Now, I mean, it may not, it may not happen in our lifetime. I mean, I don't think, I don't think you can ever discount Walmart's ability to gain share in the space. I mean, I, Walmart obviously traditionally brick and mortar and something that feels like it was from a generation ago. But if you're paying attention, then you obviously know. I mean, Walmart is making progress in this space by leaps and bounds. So, to me, scale-wise,

it's one of the most obvious threats or competitors out there. Target has done a very good job with its shipped acquisition through the years and being able to focus on that omni-channel consumer. So I guess when it comes to Amazon, two things that stand out as threats. Number one is just regulation, right? I mean, I think we've seen them under anti-trial. trust a microscope and who knows exactly how that's going to turn out. That always is something just to keep in mind. But then I think also, and it's not death by a thousand cuts, but maybe it's just stealing away sales by a thousand cuts, right? It's, I think you've got your Shopify's and Etsies of the world that really enable a small business owner. And I think that's something that

will continue to take incremental share from a company like Amazon. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. we talk about retail, it's just a massive market opportunity. But then, you know, another trend that we continue to see in these earnings calls with a lot of these retailers is the acronym BOPUS, right, B-O-P-I-S. And that is buy online, pick-up and store. And that is becoming a more attractive option for a lot of folks as well, which certainly opens them up to a universe well beyond just Amazon. So, again, not death by a thousand cuts, but there are a thousand cuts here that could

certainly take away some share from Amazon. Yeah, I think the things with Amazon that I watch are that they can't quite figure out grocery. They can't quite figure out fashion. And the other thing I watch is the rise of live stream shopping, which is not big here in the U.S. yet, but huge in other countries. And Amazon is trying it. They've hired influencers to do some of it. They don't quite seem to get it. So I think that's an area that I'm looking at, too.

Yeah. Yeah, I wonder if that live stream shopping thing, maybe that could be a generational thing, where it's just not necessarily in their circle of competence, so to speak. I mean, another space I think that really has proven very resilient is home improvement. You look at your home depots and lows of the world. I mean, Amazon came for them, and it just didn't really work yet. I think a lot of that just had to do with those companies' responses in regard to mobile, in regard to Omni-Channel. I mean, really meeting the consumer where the consumer wants to be met. But Amazon really laid the blueprint for a lot of this, right?

A lot of these companies have succeeded thanks to Amazon. And so I think that needs to be said. Well, I know one of the things that you study is you study the consumer overall. And you've talked before about consumers feeling strained, you know, end of the end of the student loan forbearance. Now you've got, you know, you've got things kind of shifting. people are using Buy Now Pay Later a lot more, and that is worrying me. I don't know. Is that worrying you? I mean, I look at companies like a firm and others like that. I've sort of stayed away from those. What do you think about the Buy Now Pay Later boom? Yeah, you know, Buy Now Pay Later is one of those things. It seems like it's just credit card in, you know, with a different name. I think that it is a sensible offering as long as it's used appropriately. I mean, just like credit card. I think Buy Now Pay Later is something where you can overindulge and put yourself behind the eight ball.

But there's no question. I mean, it is contributing to record sales this holiday season. I think it's set. The projections here for Cyber Monday is that by now pay later, Adobe predicts it. It hits $782 million up nearly 19 percent from a year ago. And so it's clearly an alternative that consumers appreciate. Now, whether that's just the perception that they don't feel like they're getting raked over the coals by a credit card company, or whether it actually is something that helps them structure their payments a little bit more easily. I think any which way you look at it, if it enables customers to spend and retailers to sell, then it's a value, right?

And I mean, from the investing perspective, I don't know that I'd want a pureplay buy now, pay later firm as an investment, mind you. But I do think as a part of the bigger hole, right, it makes sense as a part of the strategy. So you block and PayPal and Visa Mask card, all these companies that are offering by now pay later options. And I think that makes a lot of sense because that's just one piece of their business. And they're not, again, putting all of those eggs in one basket. But do you think that the consumer is going to slow their role? I mean, obviously, Black Friday's so far no. Cyber Monday will know in a few days.

Certainly, then we'll have to wait for the after the after Christmas sales and all of that. Do you think that this is, do you think we'll start to see a little bit of weakness or are people just going to spend until they can't spend anymore? Probably the latter there. I've said it before. You can never underestimate the American consumer's ability to spend irrationally. I mean, it is just, it's almost amusing at times because when you look at the data out there, right? I mean, you've got, as of October, 60% of adults saying they're living paycheck to paycheck. consumer confidence still challenged.

We're going into an election year next year when you know this stuff is going to be a big point of focus. Credit card debt tops $1 trillion. You get 96% of shoppers still say they expect to overspend this holiday season. Half of consumers plan to take on more debt for these expenses, right? 74% of consumers are stressed about their finances. I think that's kind of a funny statistic because really it should be 100. I feel like finance, we all stress about our finances. But the point is, it just seems.

seems like one of the greatest examples of cognitive dissonance and the history of mankind, right? I mean, everything is working against you, and yet you're still going to go overspend and take out debt to do it. The American consumer is just a, the American consumer is a unique, unique being. And it just seems like once the holiday season rolls around, sensibility and logic just kind of flies out the window, and we want what we want to figure out a way to get it. Yeah, absolutely. Well, the holidays roll on. Thanks for breaking it out. today, Jason. Thank you. The analyst you hear on the show have a whole other day job, providing premium coverage and recommendations for the Motley Fool's suite of stock investing services.

We're giving our listeners a discount on Motley Fool's flagship service. It's called Stock Advisor. If you're interested in more analysis from our team, two stock recommendations per month, and access to Stock Advisor's full scorecard of companies, visit www.fool.com slash MFM discount. These days I'm all about quality over quantity, especially in my closet. If it's not well-made and versatile, it's just not worth it. That's honestly one I love Quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful, and the pricing actually makes sense. Quince makes high-quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics like 100% European linen, silk and organic cotton poplin.

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and Apple's impact on the industry. So I'd love to go into depth with you about some of the changes we've seen in the luxury watch market. But before we do, I think that we can't talk about the Elxie watch market. in the room when it comes to watches, which is Apple and the Apple Watch, which they released in 2014. And since then, I know Tim Cook has talked about how they're now the largest watch producer in the world. So I guess I'm curious for you, REL, where you said, how do you see the development of the Apple Watches impacting and changing the watch industry? When the Apple Watch first came out, it caused a lot of fear in the traditional watch industry. They were very fearful that it was

an attack on them, that people were going to be buying Apple watches and not traditional watches. A lot of the way that happened, but what I quickly identified at the time, that it was going to create a new level of awareness of watches in the mainstream, and that level of awareness always opens up for a luxury segment. So the popularity of the Apple Watch almost guaranteed a thriving luxury segment. I wrote about that years ago, and that's actually turned out to be very true. Why do you think that so many people have gotten into watches over the last couple of years? Well, the short answer is it's a hobby that you can enjoy almost entirely online. You can learn about watches online, chat with other people who like watches online,

can buy watches online, you can sell your watches online, and you can basically participate in a lot of media, thanks to myself, my company, a blog to watch, and some others. So because everyone's sort of stuck at home during the pandemic, and a lot of people, not everyone, but a lot of people had extra income to spend. It was really sort of the perfect thing for that type of lifestyle. And then on top of that, you had some watches that now were being perceived as assets unto themselves in a world where traditional investing was very boring. There was not really good gains on a lot of equities and bonds.

People were looking at what I guess you could call alternative investments. And some watches, not all watches, but some watches were definitely the focus for that community. So when you hear people talking about wanting to buy watches as an investment, what are your immediate gut reactions just as a watch collector and then maybe taking a couple steps back? What are your thoughts just as a watch blogger, too? The thing that's the most challenging for me as an enthusiast is when more money and attention goes into it, all that really ends up happening is you have to spend more money for the same thing.

It doesn't really make the watch any better, but since there's more demand, you as someone who's accustomed to what legacy pricing or demand is, are now shocked with how much things cost because more people want the same thing. And what you essentially do as an enthusiast, you have to shift your attention to less common watches, less common brands, things that just aren't in demand. And it's easy to pivot if you're a sophisticated collector, but a lot of collectors were, of course, very annoyed that the Rolexes that were relatively easy to get, that you could get a discount, now we're not only unavailable at a retail, even with retailers you had good relationships with,

but we're now commanding premiums. And I think the other thing I was thinking is that this was sort of a classic bubble, and you knew that it was only sort of temporary. And all the wise economics wisdom out there said, if you participate in a bubble, chances are that you're going to be left with a hot potato, right? Like if you don't hand it off before the bubble bursts, then you're going to be in a problem. And I think a lot of people were in that situation where they bought Rolex watches for above retail, hoping that somebody else out there will want them for even more above retail, but that trend is decreasing.

So what you end up having is a lot of people, some maybe very unfortunate situations where people just spent too much, so to say. Obviously, when people think of watch brands, usually the company or the brand that comes to mind first is Rolex, What do you think it is about Rolex as a brand as a company that has really allowed them to endure the test of time in the watch industry? So a good example I like to give is with the car industry because I think that's a little bit more understandable for most. Very, very often the watch industry is compared to the car industry and there are a lot of parallels. There really are. And I think a great parallel goes with a car like a Ferrari. And although very few people own a Ferrari, you would say the Ferrari has done an excellent

job educating so many people around the world as to what the Ferrari name means, and in a lot of instances, what a Ferrari looks like. And you could be driving in a Ferrari past people who cannot afford a Ferrari, and they'll be like, hey, that's a Ferrari. It's a similar situation with Rolex. The popularity of the brand, which is really one of the assets of the company, is such that people around the world know the Rolex name. And when you have that type of popularity, you have increased demand, and that is really sort of directly related to some of the higher prices. Most of the other brands, because they don't have that popularity, there aren't as many people out there who can readily appreciate that you have a nice item.

So that's really more of a niche luxury item where the right groups, the right circles of people will know what it is. And so a lot of people, when they're choosing a watch, I think one of the most important things to decide is, do you want to wear a luxury watch that many other people will recognize, or are you more interested in a discrete purchase? So when it comes to the popularity of Rolex as a brand in particular, is there anything that you think that they've done to position themselves in such a way that makes them so admired by so many people who are interested in watches?

Absolutely. Rolex, in a lot of ways, as a business entity, is almost an eighth wonder of the world. I mean, it is a very, very fascinating thing that probably needs to be studied more, really just sort of how the business entity was created. In regards to marketing, a long time ago, Rolex decided that a very large percentage of its revenues would be rolled back into marketing. And most companies have to make decisions each year. How much are we going to spend into marketing? Rolex has really sort of made a lot of those decisions in advance. So a lot of their decisions are how are we spending on marketing? And Rolex got started with this decades ago. And most people know

the Rolex clock at airports. The Rolex name is the sponsor of really what the world's biggest sports events are in a lot of ways between tennis and racing. So Rolex has engaged in sort of a multi-prong marketing approach for many years to be positioned as the watch of winners, to be positioned as the watch worn by the most successful people, to be positioned as a watch that has the most sort of historical relevancy with important personalities and things like that. And they've been pushing these message for so long that many of us grew up with them. And I think that that's sort of really the simple thing is Rolex has been actively doing it and doing it for long enough that people have developed the desire for Rolex over their entire lifetimes. Many other brands people are

learning about merely as adults and therefore their relationship just takes longer to develop, if at all. For people who might not be too familiar with watches, they might not be aware of the challenges of getting especially sought after pieces from a retailer. So I guess I'm curious, you know, for our listeners, can you explain why you think that is? And, you know, if there is anything that these watch companies can do to try to make it easier for customers to get watches? I'm going to answer that in a slightly roundabout way, but I think you'll appreciate the way I go about it. Luxury companies learned a long time ago that there's a very effective strategy with consumers who can otherwise afford pretty much everything that they sell.

And remember, when you're a brand, a luxury brand, really what you're trading in is desirability. Most people don't really think about it that way, but the desirability of Rolex is what's going to get you to spend the money on it because you can get a nice item that tells the time for far cheaper. You desire the Rolex brand, and that makes you want to buy it. And what they've found is that when a wealthy consumer can just go into a store, and buy whatever they want, that doesn't create as much desirability when that thing is hard to get.

And what has ended up happening in a lot of different ways is the luxury industry has found that if you manipulate availability and create some tug and pull with otherwise wealthy consumers, you trigger insecurity in them. And these are individuals who are used to having shopkeepers, you know, fawn over them and bend over backwards. But then in the watch industry, it's like oftentimes they can't get the time of day. Now, some consumers rightfully walk out and be like, I'm going to go someplace that values my money more. But too many buy into it.

And that insecurity makes them be like, I need to be on the list. Can I buy some other watches to get higher in the list? Can I be nice to you? And sometimes they'll pay over retail. So this idea that you can trigger the insecurity in a consumer who would otherwise take their business elsewhere has been a manipulative, but very effective strategy for a lot of Rolex buyers. And that's sort of the context within which you see, it being very, very hard to get, especially now where a lot of them are more available. But because this is such an effective strategy, brands even play this up.

So even when there is more availability, they will pretend that there's less availability because it allows them to have more power over the consumer's mind. The watch industry is pretty interesting because on one hand, you have companies like Rolex and Potech-Philippe that are privately owned, and then you have other conglomerants like Richmond and LVMHN, Swatch Group that own companies like Cardier and IWC and Hubeau. So I'm curious, do you think that there's a difference between how publicly traded watch companies think about the future versus how privately held watch companies think about the future?

Absolutely. And you see an enormous amount of differences in how they run their businesses and the decisions they make. I would say that the biggest drawback of a corporate-owned group is the existence of disinterested third-party shareholders. The share price of the group, as well as the investment interest of those disinterested shareholders and that they want, you know, they want dividends, they want profits, they want things like that, means that the company is always going to have a tug of war between spending on itself and spending on the parent entity. There are advantages. There's sort of a group buying power and the ability to have, you know, some of the best talent. But in a lot of ways, those corporate-owned companies, not in all instances, but many

instances can be hampered by decisions that affect the group and affect the share price. An independent company doesn't have to have those same types of concerns. It can have a longer term vision. It doesn't have to worry about pleasing anyone but the egos of the people in charge. And so what you see during more challenging periods is that the independent brands or the independently run brands are those that tend to be the most agile, tend to be the most successful commercially. But again, it makes sense. The really big ships just take more time to turn, and the smaller ones that have less people on board to make decisions can do so faster. So I think that where you see the luxury brands that are corporate-owned thriving is in more

stable periods where they're able to sort of like understand a 10-year plan, maybe five-year plan, and that's where they're going to sort of be able to deliver the most value. And then, you know, when you're in a sort of crazy timeline today, the smaller companies, the ones that are a lot more agile, that's who are going to be the more exciting. And in many instances, offer the better values. For people that don't follow the watch industry, they might not be aware of the fact that Rolex historically actually hasn't sold watches directly to customers, with maybe one small exception to store in Geneva.

But it seems like that might be changing. Rolex recently acquired Booker, the largest Rolex watch dealer globally. What's especially interesting about this is Booker sells other watch brands, too. So this came out about two months ago. I know it's still being reviewed by regulators in Switzerland, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on this development and what you think it means for the watch industry. This is a very easy story to misunderstand,

and I'm glad you brought it up. There's so much context there. It's difficult to know where to start. But you're right. Essentially, Rolex purchased a major group of retailers. That retailer, I understand, was Rolex's biggest wholesale client. So Rolex sells to wholesale watch stores. you know, sells via wholesale to watch stores all around the world.

But since Bukerare is not only Swiss, but has a bunch of stores, they, I think, were the largest single client. And Bukerrero is at risk of being purchased by a private equity company or someone else. And I believe that Rolex is very, very worried that somebody would get overzealous and think that they can manipulate the market or do whatever is done. And that would have a negative effect on midterm to long. long-term Rolex sales for the biggest account. So Rolex basically said, let's acquire Bukerware for stability, not to earn more money. They don't need more money, and not to really negatively

affect the market for others. I mean, they're not really trying to push other brands out. It is very easy to misunderstand that and look at it and be like, oh, Rolex is trying to capture margin. Rolex wants to push out competitors. The thing is, Rolex doesn't really have too much incentive to do that. Rolex has more incentive to promote stability to make sure that there's sort of local Swiss ownership. Remember, Rolex and Bukerre's companies have been working together closely for, I think it was like 100 years or something like that. So from a cultural perspective, it's not very difficult to integrate, and Rolex more or less knows how their business works. I've spoken to people at Bukerere, including Bukerere, the change of stores as well as Carl F. Bukerere,

which is a watch brand that now Rolex owns about it. And there's not too much they can say because there's not too much to say. Their understanding is that nothing for them will change now or in the long run. And Rolex has every reason to not rock the boat. So again, my understanding from my intuition and the research I've done is that Rolex did this to prevent instability and someone else owning Bukerre that would essentially not have a long-term vision of the market, not, they didn't buy it in order to increase their profits in any appreciable way or to squeeze out others. As always, people on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about,

and the Motley Fool may have formal recommendations for or against. So don't buy ourselves stocks based solely on what you hear. I'm Deidrell Willard. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.