MrBallen Podcast: Strange, Dark & Mysterious Stories - The Bouncer (PODCAST EXCLUSIVE EPISODE)

Episode Date: July 20, 2026

One early morning in April 2012, a man hurried through some woods in coastal France. He lived nearby, and had seen a column of smoke coming from this area. So now he was there to make sure it wasn’t a brush fire or something. And when he finally found the source of the smoke, he relaxed. It was just the smoldering remains of a bonfire. But as he approached, he smelled something that wasn't just burnt wood. And when the man finally saw what was in the fire, he felt sick.   You can WATCH all new & exclusive MrBallen podcast episodes on my YouTube channel, just called "MrBallen" - https://www.youtube.com/c/MrBallen If you want to reach out to me, contact me on Instagram, Twitter or any other major social media platform, my username on all of them is @mrballen Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

One early morning in April of 2012, a man was walking through the woods in coastal France. He lived nearby and he had just seen a column of smoke coming out of the trees in this area. And so he was just coming out here to make sure there was not a brushfire or something. And so he walked through the woods and eventually he reached the source of the smoke. It was in this clearing and right away he felt relieved because what he saw was just the remains of a bonfire. And it was just smoldering and now there was just some smoke coming up off of it. He was about to turn around and go maybe get some water. and douse it out completely, but he smelled something.

Like it was a weird smell that clearly was coming from the fire. And so curious, you know, there's nobody else around. He just began walking to the fire to see what was making this smell. And as he got close enough, he realized there was something in that fire. But before we get into today's story, if you're a fan of the Strange, Dark, and Mysterious, delivered in story format, then you come to the right place because that's all we do. So if that's of interest to you, please offer to make a story. the follow button a nice fresh burrito. But don't tell them, instead of using ground beef,

you used cat food. Okay, let's get into today's story. On the night of April 26, 2012, a 39-year-old bouncer named Lionel Veronese opened the door of a nightclub in Chamboree, France, and he led a woman inside. And as this woman came in, she stopped and made a point to look at Leonel and smile at him and thank him by name. So, Chamboree, was a small city up in the Alps. and Leonel, the bouncer, was a fixture in its nightlife scene. Pretty much everybody in town who went out to the bars and clubs had either seen Leonel standing at the door outside or partying inside when he was not on the clock.

And it was not just the locals who knew who this guy was. Leonel was also well-known among the rich and famous tourists who often vacationed in Chamboree, and even sometimes he would pick up sidework as a bodyguard for these rich and famous people. And for Leonel, I mean, his career as like sort of this fixture in the nightlife scene was fun and pretty glamorous at times. But it also could be dangerous. In fact, just a few months ago, he got into this huge fistfight protecting one of his clients,

and in fact he actually got arrested for it. But tonight, Leonel was just trying to get through a shift without any trouble. There was this long line of people who were waiting outside the club, waiting to get in, and Leonel checked their IDs one by one and let them in. And then finally, when the line started to clear, Leonel saw a familiar face walking toward him. It was his good friend, Mike Boof, who Leonel often went drinking with, multiple times a week. And at first, Leonel was just really glad to see Mike. But as Mike got closer, Leonel realized that Mike actually looked really mad. And so by the time Mike actually reached Leonel, Leonel just said to him, like, hey, what's going on? You look pretty upset. And Mike would tell him that he had just been

at his friend Philippe's house, and Philippe had told him that seemed really, really weird. So Philippe Perrier, Mike's friend, the guy who's house, he just came from was extremely wealthy because his family ran this world-famous winery near Chamboree. Now, Leonel had never actually met Philippe himself, but he knew of him. His family was incredibly well-connected in town because they're so rich and they had this winery. And Mike was friends with him and often talked about him. And so now Mike explained to Leonel what this really weird thing was that he heard when he was visiting with Philippe. So apparently, Philippe's house had been robbed the day before, and Philippe believed Leonel, the bouncer, was the one who had done it.

Now, Leonel immediately acted, totally taken aback and began to ask Philippe, like, why in the world would even think that? But Mike, you know, his buddy here, just cut him off. And he's like, Leonel, don't play dumb. Like, Philippe knows you're sleeping with his wife, Natalie. And Natalie is actually the one who's blaming you for this robbery. Now, at this, Leonel went from this sort of shock and awe reaction to actually just feeling really nervous. He actually began to sweat because, you know, he knew it was true. He had slept with Natalie. He'd met her at a club one night a couple of months ago, and they'd hooked up in the Coat Check Room. But Leonel, realistically, had a lot of flings with a lot of different women. And he'd actually pretty much

completely forgotten about hooking up with Natalie, since it had just been like a casual thing and he hadn't seen her in weeks. And so he had no idea why now, some of the suddenly, she would be accusing him of theft. Like, it doesn't really make any sense to him. So Leonel, I mean, he was genuinely stunned. I mean, he knew what he had done. He had slept with Natalie, and that's problematic. But he told Mike very truthfully that he did not break into Philippe's house.

Like, there was nothing going on between he and Natalie. That was just a fling. It was nothing. Like, I really didn't do this. But Mike, despite, you know, being friends with Leonel and knowing him quite well, did not appear to believe him. He just sort of narrowed his eyes and nodded and said, okay, I'll pass that along to Philippe. Three days later, on the night of April 29th, Leonel sat in a chair in his living room in Chambris, finishing up a phone call. So he lived in a

small apartment with his mother and also his nephew, Julian. However, Julian was just four years younger than him, so in many ways they were more like brothers. And so as soon as Leonel hung up the phone, Julian, who was sitting in the room with him on the other side on the couch, watching TV, he immediately asked Leonel, who were you talking to? Leonel got up and he walked over and sat down next to Julian on the couch. And then he said to him, oh, that was my friend Mike. And he had just called to see if I wanted to go out tonight for a drink. And so Julian's like, okay, cool.

And then there's a little bit of silence. And then Leonel was like, actually, I want to tell you something. And then he filled in Julian on the weird conversation he had had with Mike just a few days before. where basically Mike was saying that, you know, Leonel was being accused of robbing this rich guy's home, Philippe's home. And so Julian, when he heard this, he was sort of like, this seems like a big deal. But Leonel, despite being the one to bring it up and being the one to indicate this could be a big deal, he quickly downplayed it when he saw the reaction and was just like, you know, it is what it is. I didn't do it.

And, you know, me and Mike were back on good terms. This whole thing was just, you know, a misunderstanding. Everything is back to normal now. just a weird thing that happened. And so Leonel and Julian, they shifted the conversation and chatted about whatever for the next couple of minutes. And then Leonel's phone buzzed, and at the same time, he saw there were headlights pulling up outside.

So Leonel grabbed his jacket, and he told Julian he'd be back in a few hours. Then he went out the door. Two days later, on the evening of May 1, 2012, Leonel's nephew, Julian, walked into the Shamboree police station. He had spent the past two days very worried and stressed because Leonel had not come home after hanging out with Mike that night,

and he now was not answering his phone. And Leonel was never gone for this long without giving Julian or his mother a heads-up. Julian had tried to convince himself that he was just overreacting to this whole thing and that Leonel could take care of himself. He was an adult. He was a tough adult. He could handle himself. However, when he found out that Leonel also hadn't been at work for the past couple of days, Julian knew something was wrong.

So, Julian, after getting inside the station, he walked right up to the front desk and told them, I need to report somebody missing. The following afternoon, so May 2nd, 2012, Captain Floran Mazarin walked into an interrogation room at the Chamboree police station. He was leading the investigation into Leonel's missing person case, and sitting inside of the interrogation room at the table was so far the only suspect they had in this case, Leonel's friend, Mike Booth, who he had gone out with on the night he had disappeared. So it had only been a few days since anyone had seen Leonel. But Mazarin was already sure that there was foul play involved.

Shamboree was a small town, and a lot of the officers on the police force there knew Leonel. And a couple of them were pretty much adamant that Leonel was just not the kind of person who would just leave town with no warning. Julian, Leonel's nephew, had said the exact same thing when he reported Leonel missing. He also was the one who told police that the last person Leonel was with was Mike on the night he went missing. And Mike also, they found out, had recently accused Leonel of robbing someone's house. So Mazuron was really eager to get in there and hear what Mike had to say. So into the room he went, he sat down across from Mike, who seemed calm but also definitely curious, like he wasn't sure even why he was there.

And when Mazuron started in by asking him about the robbery, that supposedly Leonel was involved in. Mike just nodded and explained that the break-in had happened about a week earlier at the home of his good friend, Philippe Perrier. And when Mazarin heard that name, he sort of raised an eyebrow, because like basically everybody else in Chamboree, Mazarin knew who the Perrier's were.

And he was surprised that someone so rich and so powerful would be running in the same circles as sort of traditional working-class men like Mike and like Leonel. However, before he could die, in and ask some basic follow-up questions about how he knows the Perrier's. Mike went on to say that he ran an electrician business and he had a warehouse that was right next to Philippe's winery. So they saw each other all the time. And he said that Philippe knew Mike was friends with Leonel. And so after this break-in and robbery happened, he had asked Mike to talk to Leonel about it because

he was suspicious that he had done it. But Mike said when he actually confronted Leonel just a few days ago and brought up the break-in, that Leonel had sworn he didn't know anything about it. And Mike had passed that on to Philippe. And as far as he knew, that had been the end of it. Like they were not going to continue to assume that Leonel had anything to do with it. Now, Mike was being so earnest as he told the story that Mazarin thought there was a good chance he was simply telling the truth here and that this robbery thing was really just a big misunderstanding.

However, when Mazuron asked Mike where he had been on Sunday night, when Leonel was last seen, presumably with Mike, Mike's whole demeanor changed. He began to visibly shift in his seat and began looking down at the table instead of eye contact with Mazuron, and then he just said that he had been home all night with his girlfriend. He did say at a certain point he had called Leonel to try to make plans with him for that night, but they'd never actually met up and they didn't see each other. Now, at this point, Mazuron was pretty confident that Mike was lying. Not just because of Mike's very obvious change in body language,

but Leonel's nephew had sworn he had seen Mike's car outside their building on that night that Mike is saying he did not meet up with Leonel. Now, it was possible that Julian had been mistaken, but if Mike was lying to the police about having been with Leonel on the night he disappeared, well, that made Mike seem very, very suspicious. And so Mazarin just put Mike on the spot and said, okay, give me your girlfriend's name and her contact information so I can confirm your alibi. And so he did, he handed it over, and then Mazarin got up, left the interrogation room and went to go give her a call. On the evening of May 2nd, 2012, so just a few hours after questioning Mike Boeuf about Leonel's disappearance,

Captain Mazuron drove up to a big house in a quiet, wealthy suburb just outside of Chamboree, France. Now, by this point, he had already spoken to Mike's girlfriend who had confirmed what Mazarin was already thinking, which was, Mike was lying about spending the whole night of Leonel's disappearance at home with her. In fact, she said that Mike hadn't been home at all. She said she had been at home by herself all night. She had watched a movie, and then at some point she'd fallen asleep, maybe around midnight, and at that point when she fell asleep, Mike still was not back from wherever he was. So, right now, Mike was not only their sole suspect, but he was also their best suspect. Mazuron knew that a few days before Leonel's disappearance,

Mike had confronted Leonel about this supposed robbery at Philippe Perrier's house. And so now Mazuron was at Philippe's house to see what he had to say about the whole situation. And so Mazuron pulled his car up in front of the house, he parked, he got out, he walked up to the front door, and he rang the doorbell. And a moment later, Philippe himself opened the door. And he seemed genuinely surprised to see Mazuron standing there. And so he quickly asked Mazuron if he was here to follow up on the robbery investigation. And Mazarin said, sort of. Mazarin said, for now, he just wanted to know if he could come inside and they could chat. And for a moment, it seemed at least to Mazuron that Philippe sort of hesitated, like he didn't necessarily

want to do that. But then he sort of relaxed and nodded and said, sure, and he let Mazuron inside. And so Mazuron, he stepped inside of this beautiful house that was very well furnished and he was led to the living room. And Mazuron took a seat. And then after Philippe sat down as well, he asked Philippe to walk him through what had happened with this supposed robbery. Philippe explained that his wife, Natalie, had come home one afternoon and when she had come into the living room, she saw one of the windows had been shattered. And then Mazuron said, that, you know, after seeing this, they searched the house and they eventually went downstairs to the basement where their safe was, and they found their safe had been broken into as well,

and a lot of cash that had been in there was gone. Philippe said he had called the police about it, and they'd come out to investigate, but so far he hadn't heard anything. And so Mazuron, after hearing this, asked Philippe if he thought he knew who was responsible. And Philippe immediately nodded and said yes. Then he repeated what Mike Buf had said. It was Leonel Veronese. And the reason he knew that was Leonel was having an affair with his wife Natalie, and Natalie

said it was Leonel. Mazuron looked really hard at Philippe, because this was huge. If Philippe knew that Leonel was having an affair with his wife, that gave him, Philippe, plenty of motive to want Leonel dead. And as of right now, Leonel was gone and no one knew what happened to him, so maybe he was murdered. And so operating on a hunch, Mazuron followed up by asking Philippe if he had any weapons in the house. And to his surprise, Philippe said, yes. And so Mazuron asked if he could see them.

And so Philippe got up and led him over to the stairs that went down to the basement. And when they got down there, there was this huge gun safe with a few plastic firearm cases stacked around it. And so Philippe, once they got down there, he sort of stepped out of the way so that Mazuron could look around. And almost as soon as he did begin walking around Mazuron and began opening up these cases, he discovered that one of those cases, which had space for two weapons in it, was empty. And so Mazuron asked Philippe, like, hey, where are the two guns that go in this case? And Philippe said, actually, those were stolen during the robbery. However, after hearing this, and as Mazarin is staring at this empty gun case,

something just was not adding up. Philippe clearly had a motive to want to hurt Leonel as he was having an affair with his wife. And he happened to have two missing guns? Now, of course, at this point, Mazuron did not know if Leonel was definitely, you know, dead and therefore couldn't know if he had been shot or not. But still, this was really suspicious. But at the same time, Philippe was from this very wealthy and highly respected family. He didn't really seem like the kind of person who would go around murdering or kidnapping people in revenge.

And if he had, let's say, done something bad to Leonel, it was just odd that he would just so readily admit to clearly having a motive to harm Leonel and to show the detective a basement full of weapons, including a gun case that was missing weapons. And so basically, until Mazuron was able to figure out what actually happened to Leonel, until that's, time, he would have a really hard time proving that Philippe had anything to do with it. The next morning, Captain Mazuron was in his office at the police station, going over the notes from his interview with Philippe to see if there was anything he missed. At this point, Mazarin's theory was that either Mike or Philippe, or maybe even both of them, had gone to confront Leonel about the affair and about the robbery, and then things had turned violent. But just

then there was a knock on his door, and Mazarin turned, and he saw his door was open, and there was this woman standing there, and her face was stained with tears, and when she walked into the room, she sort of was heavy and stumbling, like she was maybe on drugs or maybe drunk, or maybe on heavy medication, and she sort of stumbled into the room and then introduced herself as Natalie Perrier. So Mazuron had actually earlier called on her to come in and speak to him, both to verify her husband's story about what happened, the robbery, the affair, and also to see what else she might know about Leonel. And also, since she clearly was involved in this whole potential love triangle here, he had to also consider her as a potential suspect in whatever

happened to Leonel. So he gestured for Natalie to take a seat, and then once she had, he asked her to tell him all about how she had met Leonel. Natalie, at this point, really clearly could not sort of keep herself together. She kept apologizing and kept explaining that she was on prescription medication that made it really hard for her to keep a grip on her emotions, and this whole situation had really rattled her. But eventually, after this sort of set up about how sorry she is and what a mess she is, she eventually tells Mazuron that she had met Leonel at a nightclub and that, yes, they had hooked up a few times, but since the last time, they hadn't seen each other, and it had been quite a while, like it was nothing. When Madeson, it was nothing. When Madsler,

Mazuron asked her about the robbery. She said that Leonel had told her about having serious gambling debts from playing poker, and so because of that, she had just sort of naturally suspected that he must have robbed them. She also added that, just to be clear, her and Philippe were both at their home all night on the evening that Leonel disappeared, and that if Philippe had gone to confront Leonel at any point, she did not know anything about it. And so at this point, Mazuron sat back in his chair and just considered what he was seeing and what he was hearing. Natalie seemed genuinely devastated by this whole situation. To Mazuron, it seemed like she was believable that she was coming in here telling the truth.

And so he really doubted that she directly had anything to do with Leonel's disappearance. However, while Natalie's emotional state certainly made her seem less likely as a suspect, Mazuron wondered if maybe her tears were a clue. By her own account, she had only had a fleeting relationship with Leonel, not some passionate relationship or something. So maybe the reason she's this upset is because she actually knows that her husband was involved in what happened to Leonel. A few days later, Captain Mazarin walked through a wooded rural area near the coast,

220 miles away from Chamboree. An officer from the Marseille police was walking a few steps ahead of him. This officer had called Mazarin yesterday to take. tell him that a body had been discovered in these woods just after dawn on April 30th, so less than 10 hours after Leonel was last seen by his family. And after running the body's fingerprints through the database, they had identified the victim. It was Leonel. And Mazarin was baffled by this. Marseilles was more than a four-hour drive from Chamboree. And as far as Mazarin knew, Leonel didn't know anybody in Marseilles and did not go there with any regulations.

And there was just plenty of other wooded areas closer to Chamboree. So why drive all the way out here? It just didn't really make any sense. And so Mazuron continued following this officer, and at some point they stepped into this small clearing and Mazuron saw there was a pile of burnt logs and branches sort of lying in the grass right in the middle. And the other officer said that this was the spot where Leonel was found. And then the officer pulled out a folder that had photos of Leonel's body.

And so Mazuron was being brought here just to see exactly where it had been found. And so Mazuron looked down at the photo and what he saw was, you know, in this spot that he was standing near, there was this smoldering bonfire. It was clearly out, but there was still smoke coming off of it. And then in the middle of all these logs was clearly a charred corpse. The officer that brought him here explained that the medical examiner had found a gunshot wound in the back of Leonel's head. So it did appear that he was actually killed. before he was set on fire. And so as Mazuron was taking all this new information in,

everything just started to make sense. So this was exactly how drug trafficking gangs in France typically disposed of bodies. The police even had a name for it. They called it a barbecue. The gangs would shoot their victims in the head and then burn their bodies over a bonfire to make them harder to identify.

Mazuron had assumed that Leonel's murder was a revenge killing. But now it actually looked more likely that this could have been a gang execution. None of Leonel's family or friends had ever mentioned that he was involved with a gang in any way. But Mazuron knew that Leonel worked in nightclubs and had a history of breaking up fights. So it was definitely possible that he might have crossed paths with the wrong person. Also, there was the fact that apparently Leonel had these huge debts from gambling. There's just sort of a seedy underworld that potentially he was around, that could have led to him being killed this way.

Also, if this was gang-related, it would sort of explain why he was all the way out here in Marseille, because Marseille was a city that historically had a lot of issues with drug trafficking and gangs. And so Mazuron realized he could have been wrong about this case basically from the start. Maybe Mike and Philippe actually had nothing to do with it at all. Around 10 p.m. on May 5, 2012, about 100 miles from the spot, where Leonel's body was found. Captain Florent Mazarin pulled into the parking lot at a gas station. He got out, he walked inside and told the clerk that he needed to look at the security camera footage. So during the four-hour drive from Marseilles back to Chamboree, so after Mazarin

had gone out and seen where Leonel had been found during that ride home, he had been going back and forth between his first two suspects, Mike and Philippe, and this new theory that a gang had killed Leonel. And so he wasn't really sure how he was going to navigate, like what to do here with running these two sort of simultaneous investigations. But as he's driving, as he's on his way back home, he realizes there might actually be a way to prove whether or not either Mike or Philippe were involved in this killing. There were only two roads that connected Chamboree to Marseilles. And so Leonel's killer or killers must have driven down one of them at some point during the night of April 29th. So Mazuron had been checking the cameras at every toll booth and every gas station that he

passed on his drive to see if any of them had captured a glimpse of Leonel. So far, he'd just been disappointed because most of the cameras didn't even work or the footage had already been erased or written over. And so now, as he followed this clerk into the back room and was shown to their computer to go ahead and look at the footage, Mazarin was expecting that this stop would be the same as all the others, a big disappointment. However, as soon as they fired up the computer, right away Mazuron saw that they did have footage, and the footage did cover the time period he was looking for. However, when he began scanning the footage around the date of April 29th, April 30th,

at first nothing stood out. However, when he reached the early hours of April 30th, where he would normally stop and say, okay, I didn't see anything, it is what it is, for whatever reason, he decided to just keep on scanning the footage, just keep on watching more of April 30th. And eventually, he did see something of interest. At 5.43 a.m. on April 30th, a black Volkswagen vehicle pulls into frame. And it actually parks in the gas station parking lot.

And this car, its license plate, ended in 73, which meant this car was registered in Chamboree. He's watching this car, comes into the lot at parks, and the driver gets out. And right away, Mazuron pauses the video and he zooms in on the driver's face, but the video was just too grainy. He couldn't tell who the driver was, but then something in the passenger seat of this car catches his attention.

And so he zoomed in on the passenger seat, and when he realized what he was looking at, his stomach just dropped. Based on that video, forensic evidence, and interviews with witnesses, this is what police believe happened to Leonel Veronese on April 29, 2012. Around 10.15 p.m., the killer sat in the backseat of a car as it drove through the streets of Chamarie with a gun resting on the seat next to them. Now, the killer had told the driver that they were not planning to use the gun tonight. It was just there for intimidation. However, the killer's emotions were really running high, and they honestly weren't even sure what they were

going to do when they saw Leonel. And so the car kept on driving along until eventually it came to a stop outside of an apartment building, and then a few seconds later, the passenger side front door opened up, and Leonel climbed inside the car. As the driver put the car back into gear and started driving down the road, the killer from the back seat confronted Leonel about something that had really been bothering them, and it gradually turned into a very heated argument, and then, at some point, the killer raised that gun they weren't going to use, aimed at the back of Leonel's head and fired. The driver immediately whipped around and looked at the killer and just stared at them. They seemed completely shocked by this crazy sudden escalation here, but they didn't stop driving.

Instead, they stepped on the gas and sped down the road until they reached a house. And then the killer and the driver both went inside of that house, and they formulated a plan for what would happen next. So the plan was the driver, along with another accomplice who was in the house they went to, would drive down to Marseilles. they would find a secluded spot out in the woods, they'd make a bonfire, and they would burn Leonel's body. That's how they dispose of it. And then on the way back, their plan was to toss all the evidence into the river. As for the killer, the one who actually pulled the trigger, they were going to stay at this house. They were not going to leave. The driver and the other accomplice agreed

that the killer had already caused enough trouble for one night. So the killer just went upstairs into their bedroom, they slipped on a robe, and they watched from the window, as the other two got into the car and drove off. The killer was Philippe's wife, Natalie Perrier, the woman Leonel had had an affair with. To Leonel, their affair had been meaningless, just a fling, but for Natalie, she wanted more. She'd gotten bored of her quiet life as a luxurious housewife in the suburbs, and she'd quickly fallen in love with Leonel and the seemingly very exciting life that he lived. And so when Leonel stopped paying attention to her, she'd gotten so mad that she took revenge.

She went with Mike to pick up Leonel on the night he was killed so that she could confront him. But moments after Leonel got in the car, her emotions got the best of her, and she shot and killed him. And this was definitely not the plan that Mike had agreed to, like he and her had discussed, what was going to happen, it didn't include murdering Leonel. But after the murder, Mike didn't say, I'm going to go to the police. Instead, he and Natalie went to her husband, Philippe, for help. And Philippe agreed to dispose of Leonel's body and cover up the crime. On the security footage from the gas station, what Mazarin saw in the passenger seat of that black Volkswagen was Philippe. He was sitting there, just right in the passenger seat, and it would turn out the driver of the car was Mike.

Natalie was ultimately convicted of Leonel's murder and sentenced to 20 years in prison. Mike was sentenced to six years for kidnapping and destroying evidence, and Philippe was sentenced to three years for helping get rid of Leonel's body. He and Natalie are now divorced, and also, as for that robbery that played seemingly a central role in the story at the beginning, we actually don't know if the robbery ever occurred or if it was simply a fabrication. A quick note about our stories. They are all based on true events. But we sometimes use pseudonyms to protect the people involved, and some details are fictionalized for dramatic purposes. The Mr. Ballin podcast, Strange, Dark and Mysterious Stories, is hosted and executive produced by me, Mr. Ballin.

Our head of writing is Evan Allen, produced by Jeremy Bone and Cole Lacassio. This episode was written by Kate Gallagher. Research and fact-checking by Shelley Shoe, Samantha Van Hoose, Evan Beamer, Abigail Schumway, Camille Callahan, Alex Paul, Ben Fasiano. Research and fact-checking supervision by Stephen Ehrlich. Audio editing and post-produced by Whit Lacasio and Jordan Stidham. Production support by Antonio Manada and Delana Corley. Artwork by Jessica Clogston Kiner, theme song Something Wicked by Ross Bugden. Thank you for listening to the Mr. Ballin podcast.

And just a reminder, every new and exclusive episode we put out on the Mr. Ballin podcast, you can also now watch on the Mr. Ballin YouTube channel that very same day. And trust me, some of these stories you truly have to see to believe. Again, my YouTube channel is just called Mr. Ballin. If you want to listen to episodes one week early and ad free, you can subscribe to SiriusXM Podcast Plus on Apple Podcasts or visit seriousxm.com slash podcast plus to listen with Spotify or another app of your choice. So that's going to do it.

I really appreciate your support. Until next time, see you.