Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - ANNA MATHUR: Letting Go of Perfect, Asking for Help & Making Good Decisions

Episode Date: August 10, 2025

This week on Mum’s The Word, Georgia Jones is joined by psychotherapist and bestselling author Anna Mathur for an honest, compassionate conversation every mum needs to hear.Anna opens up about how motherhood revealed her hidden perfectionism, the challenge of asking for support, and the inner voice that so often leans toward self-criticism. They dive into the emotional load mums carry, why it’s so hard to be kind to ourselves, and the power of vulnerability when things feel too much.Plus, Anna shares the inspiration behind her brand-new book, The Good Decision Diary, and how it can help you tune into your inner wisdom - even in the chaos of parenting.Raw, reassuring and refreshingly real, this one’s for any mum who’s ever felt like they’re not enough.A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to Mums the Word. I'm your host, Georgia Jones, and today I'm joined by the amazing Anna Martha. Anna Martha is a psychotherapist, bestselling author, and passionate about taking therapy out of the consulting room, sharing her personal and professional experiences online. Anna is frequently called upon as an expert having featured in the Times, The Telegraph, ITVs this morning and BBC Radio 4 Women's Hour. Her previous books include Sunday Times bestsellers, raising a happier mother, and The Uncomfortable Truth. And her next book, The Good Decision Diary, is out now. So get yourself copy.

Go grab a cuper, get comfy, and let's jump in to a brand new episode of Moms the Word. So, Anna, thank you for joining me on Moms the Word. No, well, thanks for having me. I feel like I've escaped for the day. I know. So do I. I've left Cooper sitting on the side of a paddle pitch with Danny. Brilliant.

Well, my kids were livid when I dropped them off at a club this morning. They just want to cause chaos at home. And I think we all need a bit of space from each other. I know we do. I think actually there is something in having like that break. Absolutely. Before we go into any of that, though. So me and Anna already know each other.

I would say we have friends, Anna. Yeah. I think we can call it that. Yeah. And me and Anna have done podcasts before, haven't we? Yeah. Way back when. Quite a long time ago, I think.

Quite a long time ago. And we've both lived a life since then, haven't we? I know, it just feel like that. And then the kids, they just grow and there's different ages and stages. And I feel like I'm constantly just finding my feet. Yeah, every time. Yeah, all the time. Every single month is a new bit of finding our feet, I think.

So Anna, I have given you an introduction. But for anybody that doesn't know who you are, just tell us a little bit about you. Okay. So workwise, I'm a psychotherapist. That's my training. And then, to be honest, over the years, I just share psychology and that insight in every which way. podcast, books, press, literally, kind of anything really. And I just love taking all the things that I have spoken about

and supported clients with in the therapy room over the years and just sharing them and giving these tools to people. And is it predominantly parenting? Yeah, I tend to attract frazzled mums. Frazzled mums. Yeah, that must have been why I got attracted to Anna. I was like, help, help me. I'm on the brink.

We're all, we all feel like we're hanging on a thread sometimes. And I think, you know, the real. real privilege of being a therapist is that I've seen the behind the scenes of so many people's lives over the years. So therefore, when I am struggling with something or trying to unpick something or have a parenting moment that I feel, oh gosh, like really ashamed of, I know fundamentally that I'm not alone. So that means that I often feel kind of less shame than other people in speaking some of these stories out. Right. So I can talk about intrusive thoughts or I can talk about moments where I've totally lost it with the kids. But I can also kind of lay

my psychotherapeutic knowledge and I wish that it meant that I never had those moments. I think sometimes you think, well, if you've got this knowledge, why would you struggle with anxiety? Why would you find these things hard? Why would you lose it at the kids if you've got the tools? But at the end of the day, we'll just... Humans, right? Just got a lot of pressure on us. We've just kind of a bit squished and yeah, no one's perfect. I think that's it. Even though you're, you know, you're an expert in that field, it doesn't mean that your children are absolute angels every single day of the week. No. It's, that is impossible. And that's the whole thing of like, you know, that perfection side of things, which I have definitely had to do a hell of lot of work on.

Because I didn't realize I was a perfectionist until I had a child. And I couldn't believe how imperfect that world is. It's so tough. And we have to kind of navigate that. And you talk quite a bit about that in terms of parenting and that how everything isn't perfect yeah how would you advise a parent kind of navigating that and not being able to quite understand that it can't be perfect all the time yeah i think finding some compassion for yourself i think starting to think about where the bar and what the standards you're expecting of yourself and i think sometimes stuff happens in life that just completely strips us of the ability to kind of try and scrabble to have it all together So, for example, my first son, he was, it was like he read the parenting books, right?

He was so straight down the line. He was really typical. He kind of did things as expected and learned how to sleep in, you know, a similar amount of time to my mate. So I felt really confident. I thought that that was down to me doing a good job. I was like, brilliant. I've nailed this. Let's crack on, do this again.

And then I have my second. And none of this stuff worked. Like nothing worked that had worked before. He had silent. flux which weren't undiagnosed rages and I honestly I thought it was my fault I thought it was something that I wasn't trying hard enough or I wasn't trying the right things or I wasn't giving enough of myself so my response was just to try harder so to push up the bar instead of just thinking you know what actually this is just really tough and I need people it was this sense that I was somehow failing

because my baby was just crying all the time and I couldn't I couldn't help him and I couldn't make it stop and I couldn't help him sleep and I think what ended up happening is that I and this is so common is that we just put more pressure on ourselves right we've got to try harder dig deeper do more do more read more try more and it all has to come down to us and I think I've got to a point where I couldn't even try anymore I was so depleted and so low and so desperate that I had no capacity to hold up that mask of like I'm fine I've got this and actually that was one of the most kind of of painful moments where I couldn't, I needed people. And that was such a challenge of my identity where I was like, I've got this. This is about me being a good mum. You know, that was

really broken down and it was so humbling where I had to kind of wave the white flag and be like, I haven't got this. I'm not okay. I can't do this on my own. And I think, where did you get your help from? When you did wear of that white flag, what got you out of that situation? just people that were already wanting to be there for me people like my husband for example he at that point i wouldn't let him sleep in the room with us because he was working and i was like it's my role i've got to look after the baby my husband's working these long hours i need to kind of enable him to do that so he would sleep so we lived in this little three-story cottage and there wasn't even a door on the upstairs room it was just like a you know an attic yeah like a little

attic so i couldn't stand him seeing how desperate i was would be in the night, you know, because my baby would be screaming, sometimes I'd get maybe 45 minutes a night, sleep, and I had a toddler. And I was just besides myself. And I felt almost ashamed at him seeing me in that way, because I'd always been so like, no, I'm good, I've got this. So it felt easier to just send him away and like push him away. And same with my family and friends, you know, people that would be like, are you all right? And I'm like, yeah, fine. You know, and just, I think the support network was already there. It was just a case of letting people actually love me.

Why do you think we're so, so against letting people in? Like, do you think this is something that we've, are we born this way now? Or do you think it's, are we learning to be like that? Like, what's going on in women's heads for us to think we have to do it all alone? Yeah. So I think sometimes it feels like a really personal failure when, you have to let people be there for you. And I think there can be, you know, this is what we're exploring therapy.

And it tends to calm down to the fact that when we're children, there is a point where we feel we have to internalize stuff. So for me, when I was a child, my sister had cancer. So, yeah, she had a brain tumor. Did she? No, she died when she, yeah. She died when she was just nearly seven. Oh, how old are you?

I was 10. I was 10. Yeah, so I was 10. And this is the wild thing, right? My kids are those ages now. So my daughter's the age, my sister was when she died. And I look at my son and I look at the three of them and I think, well, you have had a wildly different life

to my experience of life by that point. And I think because there was so much grief and loss and pain and everyone dealt with that in their own way, my way to deal with it was being like, I'm going to be the one that makes it easier for everyone. So you're the strong one? I was the strong one. At seven.

Yeah. At 10, sorry. Well, so an eight, nine, like, I think throughout the duration when you're seeing that, you know, your sibling has so won well and you see all the pain in trauma and I think my response was like, I'm not going to upset anyone. I don't want, you know, I internalised a lot of that grief because- It's massive for a kid at that age, isn't it? It is. That goes on to later life, doesn't it? Yeah, well, this is it. And I think it happens in many different contexts. It might be that your parents struggling with mental health

or it might be that there was a lot of kind of disruption in your childhood. And one response to that is like, I'm going to be the good girl, the good girl, I'm going to be the one that doesn't make anyone cry more. So I'm not going to talk about that friendship issue at school or I'm not going to cry about that because I don't want to upset that parent. So there are so many reasons I think why we step into that belief in that narrative of like our role and what makes us acceptable

is to make things easier for those around us. And it gets applauded, right? Over the years, we get applauded. If you're unkind and make people happy and don't cause a issue and, you know, just everything's nice around you, you get that role of, oh, she's such a nice person. Yeah.

But then it sometimes might be a detriment to you in your mental health. Because you've not spoken up and you've not been upset when something doesn't seem right or someone's been mean to you. And you're like, no, just let it go. Yeah.

And sometimes maybe you shouldn't. But then I think we're also worried about what people are going to think of us. So at what point did you then, obviously, you know, if you've been squashing things down a bit and being the good girl, at what point did you kind of have an epiphany? Was it when you were training to be a... So, well, do you know what? I think it was so ingrained in me and it was such a part of my identity

that actually becoming a therapist was a way of me, making that like that's actually my job now yeah it's not that i'm that role in with friends or family it's that actually now i get to make it my job too so i kind of lived being the supporter and the helper and there were a few things i think over the years that really kind of challenged that and one was going to therapy as someone that was like oh it's fine i can analyze myself yeah i've got really great softwareness i'm here for therapy but i don't actually need it I'm just here to tick the box, so I get my qualification and accreditation. And I remember...

Do you have to go to therapy, to Trin? Right. Well, yeah, it's best practice, right? So I had this therapist, and I would always turn up, like, a couple of minutes early, always just be, you know, it would be 7 o'clock in the morning in the city, and I would have travelled out from Kent, right? So it was quite a way. And I would not, I would not even drink her water. Why?

Because I didn't want to, that was where... Oh, because you didn't want to take anything from anyone that, I would have tried to therapy as her if she'd have told me to think about herself. You know, I would not even drink the water. I just wouldn't, even if I was thirsty. Like, that was the extent of... I was like that when I first went to therapy of going to the toilet. I was like, I'm so sorry, but I really need to need the toilet.

Oh, terrible. Remember I would sit through, like, the first few therapy sessions, so desperate for a wee that I almost wasn't even concentrating on therapy because I was that much needing a toilet. Yeah, so you ended up robbing yourself. Dern inconvenience her by using her toilet. But how sad is that? I don't know. It's ridiculous. When you think about it, it is ridiculous.

I wouldn't even drink the water and once. And this wouldn't happen now because I think for so many reasons I'd be like, why would I subject the world to that? But I even went once with a stomach bug. And I was so, I was such a state. But it didn't even occur to me to cancel the session. No, because you didn't want it to inconvenience. It didn't even occur to me that actually, I mean, now I'm like, I mean, this was a good number of years ago. I were going back. like 15 years. I'm like, why would I even get on a tube like that? Oh, God. That was not okay. Why would I subject other people to that? But I was like, that was just everything about how I thought was just how can I be easy and non-demanding. And so of course, when I entered into motherhood and I had this baby that was just struggling and of course I'm going to think it's my fault. Of course I'm going to try and protect people around me from the reality of how messy I feel. Yeah. Yeah, that is it. That's a really good way to describe it, actually.

You do feel messy, don't you? You just feel like a bit of a mess. Yeah. Yeah. But I was always that mom, you know, right from what I think I got back from hostel having my first and I was in, I was in Sainsbury's. Like, immediately in Sainsbury's, I left the hospital with a full face of makeup and like, but that's just, you know, it was almost this armour of like, you don't need to worry

about me. I'm great. When actually, you know, the gap between what people saw and how I actually felt to start getting so, so big that it was so tiring. hold up the mask. I couldn't hold up for it anymore. I was just crying my way through life. Like, I just couldn't. I remember doing a photo shoot and it must have, I think it was about five days after having Cooper. Do you know what I really, really wish? And I'm not going to have another, but if I did have another, what I would do is do the photo shoot, like literally

as I would look, having just given birth. In my comfiz, no makeup on, you know, I could put a bit moisturiser on my face and maybe wash my hair. But apart from that, and I feel like there'd be so much power in someone doing, you know, a famous person doing like a photo shoot for a magazine that way. Yes. Looking completely vulnerable because I was dolled up to the nines. I mean, it felt nice for a few hours to actually have my makeup and hair done. However, it wasn't real life. No. I wasn't sat at home looking like that. And it was not attainable for any mother. And I think something did switch in me there and I was like, God, that is false. Yeah. The way I'm looking. right now is false. It's just that gap, isn't it, between the bit of you that you're putting

out and then how you're actually feeling. And sometimes that gap is just massive. And you think there is nothing authentic in me in this moment. And I feel really far removed from... Oh, completely. That's what I think... Yeah, yeah, that's it. The truth. That's what that is a big reason as to why I did start sharing, like, the truth. Because I was like, people need to see that this isn't all kind of like, what's the word? What is it when it's like fair, uh, oh, like, As it's saying, you can't make good with my saying. Pitchies and fairy dust or something, I don't know. It's not, it's not as it seems.

Sorry, it went off on a tangent. Love a tangent. Yeah, I love a tangent. I always got off on a tangent. So you started therapy, and so you think that was maybe your kind of... I think it took me a while because I think a lot of the reason we put on this front of being okay and we try and protect other people from the reality is that that is what makes us feel safe. That is what we have learned to...

believe keeps us acceptable to others yeah you know and it was almost like everyone in my life i felt like the only reason that they were really my friends or they loved me was because of who i was and what i did for them and how i kind of just had no boundaries really at all i would have done anything for anyone at any cost but cost to you yeah any cost to me yeah any cost to me and i think i ended up burnt out resentful because really i think when you give yourself away until we've got nothing left you end up feeling quite frustrated that other people haven't seen that but then at the same time we don't want them to so it's that kind of like this self-protective mechanism that's only there because we're feeling vulnerable it's so true though because you are you're you're angry

nobody's helping yeah if anyone asks for help you're like no no i don't need help yeah you're your own worst enemy and this leads me into the whole self-sabotage thing so that's quite a common thing in mums, right? Yeah. And we can do it quite silently. Do you have an insatiable fascination with the paranormal? Brace yourself for the supernatural world is about to reveal all of its secrets

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Listen to Paranormal Activity with me, Vetfielding, wherever you get your podcast from. What are the most common kind of like self-sabotage acts that moms do? Do you know what? absolutely, I mean, I say it fascinated me but also it didn't because it resonated so hard was that, I think it was a few years ago now, I put something on Instagram and said, I think might have been in the pandemic.

We had like even less time and capacity. Pandemic? Yeah. Triggering. And I still can't look at the printer. Oh. Anyway, and I put something out saying, you know, what's one little thing that you're going to do for yourself?

Right. And it was, drink water. Like have a shower, brush my teeth. And it was like, do you know what? I think sometimes we find it so hard to ask for support, accept support, take space and we need it, rest and we need it. And often the reason for that is that we are overlooking the basic needs of like, I'm thirsty. You know, would we, like if our child was thirsty, would we be like, oh, later later? You know, we'd be like they're thirsty and getting some water. And they're tired, let's, you know, or they're hungry. And it's just the first. fact that we can so chronically overlook those very basic needs that if we were to do that in our children, it would be abusive. It would be abusive. Yeah. So what you're saying, Anna, is we're basically abusing ourselves as mothers. So often and a lot of the moms I work with, you know, they find it really hard to rest. They find it really hard to take space themselves

without guilt. So therefore, to like go in and be like, you need to go out and have a spada, you need to do this, you need to actually let's get you okay with even just rehydroids. eating yourself. Let's get you nourishing yourself of food. Let's get you speaking more kindly to yourself. Because so often I think if we were to speak to our children in the way we spoke to ourselves, like, wow, like we just so often, we wouldn't. What would it do? You wouldn't. You wouldn't, you wouldn't speak to, I don't think you'd speak to anybody, not even someone you'd really disliked the way that we sometimes internally speak to ourselves. Would you? Yeah, but it's, it's so powerful. like you think what would what would happen to your child's self-esteem and confidence if you spoke to them in the way you speak to yourself yeah because ultimately that conversation that goes on in the side like secret of our mind that no one else sees is the most powerful conversation we will ever have in our lives it can be a really scary conversation a lot of the time as well because you're so I think as women we can be so down on ourselves just for the littlest thing like like I was talking to you before we

came on and saying about how the juggle in school holidays and like I've been with Cooper every day however a lot of the time I've been working on my phone and unfortunately my work's majority on my phone which just looks bad like whenever there's anyone to stay like my mother-in-law was here the other day and I said to her I actually know I am working I'm not just sat scrolling like on Instagram on my phone you feel like you've really got to like caveat when you sat there but yeah and he said to me he was like mommy can you just get off your phone i was like i'm i'm working so it's so blurry isn't it all the boundaries are so blurry because i mean i could be adding something to the online shop and there was so much about work

work being able to work on my phone which enables me to be with the kids yeah because i used to work in office yeah yeah yeah and i'm not now but i'm there and i'm there at pickups but there will be times and it's confusing for them because you're present in body but not in mind I think that's what's confusing for them because they're like, you're here, but you're not playing with me. So, and then we battle with that as well, I think, as working moms.

But in my head, I feel like he's gaining more from me being there with him physically, but also working than me just, you know, sending him somewhere, you know, like a club or something. But I don't know. And that's a battle. It's such a battle. There's a battle.

Listeners, if you were having that battle, you're not alone. Not alone. And sometimes we just want to, sometimes we can't transport ourselves out of the moment. And I think we just want to go somewhere else. Yeah. You know, so we just, if we're stressed or if we're bored or frustrated or anything, like even if I'm having a conversation with my husband and I maybe feel a bit frustrated or something,

my hand, I will feel my hand is going to my phone. Oh, yeah. So I think often when we have feelings, you know, it's just somewhere we go to. And it's hard to put founders around it because, A, sometimes those boundaries are wobbly because we need to get stuff done at some times but also we use our phone for connecting with people like that might be a lifeline to a friend when you use and support and so it's trying to find those things that kind of help the boundaries I've got this app called app block and I love

it because it literally blocked my email my Instagram at certain times of the day and I would say that's been such a life changer have you made it block them at certain times a day where you've felt like you've been almost dependent on it. Yeah, or just really distracted by it. So I block it between 8.30 at night and after I drop the kids off at school. Ah. So at a time that's already quite stressful in my day that I know I will just be multitasking and it will just make it more stressful. So there's that. But also, you know, if I read a certain kind of message on Instagram or an email that's stressful, suddenly my thought process is completely derailed right because you have a stress response and I'm like then thinking

what I want to say back to that email or and you can't focus on on things and that's the thing as well which I think actually massively affects parenting as well like I've had it where you know a message has come through or an email or something that I've not particularly wanted to read because it's maybe made me feel anxious yeah but then I feel like I then become snappy with Cooper and and then obviously the guilt kicks in and I beat myself up and I'm like I know it I know it I know it. know it yeah and I'm like oh my god you don't deserve this something somebody else has done a situation someone else has put me in at 8 30 on an evening yeah or first thing on a saturday morning like has then made me not parent how I want to parent I know I know exactly what you mean I think we all

do you know whether it's a WhatsApp or an email and it's just you've just flicked through right you've just flicked to that and suddenly you're in this like spiral of emotion right where your hearts racing or you're just kind of you're very physically responding to which is really really normal when we feel threatened in any way and I think it's recognizing and having some compassion for ourselves right this addictive like phones are basically wildly created to keep us there like have attention as a commodity that someone somewhere is paying for like we we might feel powerless to it sometimes but that that's because it's very powerful so I think it's thinking all right what boundary can I put here that means I'm less likely to feel robbed. You know, what points in my day is it mealtimes

that I can block certain things on my phone? I love this app block, right? Because you cannot get on it. I'm going to get this. You cannot get on it. It's amazing. Because that's the thing like with, so I've got, I just put my foot at like, I think it's 630 on an evening. It goes into focus mode. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Like no email. Nothing comes through. People can't call me on apart from like emergency contacts. And that's great, but I can turn it off within a second. Exactly. So I know I can do that. Yeah. Whereas this app block, you, you literally can't.

So we want those little dopamine hits, right? Yeah. Especially if we're bored or we're frustrated and we want to be transported somewhere else or we want to feel sometimes it's feeling productive. Yeah. You know, sometimes it might be that I'm just going to do two quick emails while some cooking dinner and it gives me that hit of like... I've done something. I've done something. I've been productive.

I've been productive. But I think that feeling that we get of like that ugh feeling, you know, that's the self-sabotages. we know that deep down we are you know we're going against a value that we have that we want to be a little bit more focused and present with our kids and I think we need to be realistic with this like to be fully present all the time like it's just not possible no to feel fully like focused on your kids I don't think that would be that healthy either no but it's just sometimes I think we know that we are kind of plowing through our own boundaries and then we're feeling like either a bit robbed or a bit gross or quite guilty and I think it's having compassion

being like it's a very powerful thing of course it's going to be hard to navigate it and they're thinking okay where's the realistic standard here yeah I might expect myself to be fully focused on my kids all the time is that actually I'm a person too it's my summer too I've got I've got an agenda too I want to have fun too I want to lay in the sun for an hour and get a nice tan not that wouldn't happen in an hour, but yeah, I want to just enjoy myself a little bit as well. It's okay for you to have kind of self-focused agendas, but I think it's when we know that despite ourselves, we're kind of sabotaging, like we picked our phone up when we actually don't want to, or we're applying to something that we know really could wait until tomorrow.

So it's trying to think, how can I kind of compartmentalize those moments and help myself? Yeah, so set boundaries a little bit. Yeah, it's easier said than done because like I do try and then I'm, you know, You need this thing because you literally can't bypass it. Right. So I'm getting that. It's brilliant. You know, I,

and what it makes me do is if say I need to do something for a press piece or I need to, there's something I need to reply to at a certain time, I will go onto my laptop at my desk. So I will walk there and open the laptop up. I'm in a certain zone that they equate with work. So when I'm there and working, and I think that kind of helps.

But it means that it's more intentional. So if I do go on my email in that time, I've gone to the effort out. of my way to go and do that. Do you know what I mean? So it's just more intentional and less impulsive. Yeah, it's kind of set. You've got your set.

Whereas when you've just got your phone there, you never stop. Like, you just don't stop. Like, I do think now with majority of people, it's a habit. Oh gosh. It's just a habit. And it's not our weakness. It's the strength of the internet and the digital world and how things are created. So.

we're wired. So with the self-sabotaging, we just need to set some boundaries and try our hardest to stick to them. Yeah. So that's definitely one. Like see what there is to help you hold that boundary because sometimes our own strength is like it's not enough. And that again, that's not weakness. It's just the power of it all and we get overpowered. But I think also thinking about do I really believe that I'm deserving of what might come on the other side of this good habit that I'm trying to put in place or this value that I'm trying to hold? And I think think sometimes when it comes down to it, if we have low self-esteem, we're struggling with confidence, the answer might be actually fundamentally, if I was to do well in this, or if I was

to get that job, or if I was to build this relationship, then I don't actually feel deserving of that good stuff. Yeah. So I think sometimes that can be the resistance is actually we don't really believe that we are deserving of living in alignment with that value or benefiting from I think sometimes you can even if you achieve something you can go oh but it wasn't that good because this didn't happen or yeah like you know someone might say that's amazing well done you'd be like yeah but it's not that good and it's always that putting yourself down because you don't feel deserving of it because you go yeah but you know you do though you do you do and I think the more you start thinking about how you're talking to yourself you know that that really

it's a president because if we're bullying ourselves from the inside out of course then if someone's kind to us or something good happens we're not there's going to be that difference between what's come at us and what we actually feel deserving of and so the more that we kind of nurture ourselves internally and find more compassion for ourselves and less shame and guilt that isn't really ours to carry it becomes easier to accept nice things and think thanks yeah did too well actually be proud of yourself yeah because it's not so jarring with what you believe you're deserving of? I think we're all just so worried about what people think

and like if you go, oh my gosh, thanks so much. Yeah, I'm really proud of myself for that. You just don't want someone to think you're a bit of a dick and being like, oh, she loves herself. She thinks she's amazing at what she does. And it's like, well, why shouldn't we think we're amazing at what we do? Yeah, we should.

Yeah, I think there's so much. That's another thing I think that causes us to kind of self-sabotage and not go after the things that feel right is that we're fearful of what other people think. And talking of people that should be proud of things that they do, Anna is a very, very established author and you have your six book called The Good Decision Diary. Now tell her, and this is out now, available now. Where can we find it, Anna? Everywhere. All the usual places. All the usual places. And if you really stuck, go on Anna's Instagram, which is. It's all there, just at Anna Martha. Inventively. And there'll be a link in your bio, I'm imagining. Yeah, it's all there. It's all there. So tell us a little bit about it. What should we expect?

Yeah, it's kind of like part, book, part journal, just talking about decisions and talking about, it actually came for a moment in the shower. Well, I was just stood up. Well, I'm going to share anyway. You go. So I was there in the shower. And I was just looked down and I thought, I was to look to my body and I thought, I've been so kind to you and just so horrendously mean as well. Right. And I think there are so many habits over the years that have been really destructive, really kind of harmful. But then there have been so many times I've really tried to do good things myself, you know, and really battled with that and really had to put a lot of time and energy and effort into trying to be kind to myself. And I just thought, gosh, like, you're still here after all of this like tug of war. And I thought, I'm an all or nothing kind of person, right? I'll be like, right, so I'm making a plan and on Monday, so I'm going to be doing. and this is from now on and this is and I've got a really addictive kind of driven personality. So when I make a plan, I'm normally, you know, I can be quite good at the plan. Yeah. I feel really good when I've got a plan.

But I just realise that so often I like tussle with those kind of minute by minute decisions of like, I know that doing this or doing that is actually going to be harmful, but then I'll just go ahead and do it anyway. And I think the pressure that I recognise I often put on myself and lots of other people that I work with is like this is my plan. and if I fall off it, then I've failed, like, forget it. You know, I might as well just crack on and self-sabotage or go back into that old behaviour because I'm a failure and I can't stick at anything.

And I just thought the way that we approach growth and change and habit formation is so often that kind of all or nothing. And what if we just aimed for more of the time, not all at the time? What if we started understanding about self-sabotage and why we do it and where that comes from? And what if we started adjusting our aims really and the pressure that we put on ourselves to just more recognising of our humanness, right?

That we have limited resources. Sometimes when I'm hormonal, I am like, I have no impulse control. Like I literally, I, no matter how strong, I cannot fight with myself. Like, I just... Hormons are a powerful thing. They are.

They are. And I think, you know, things can fall by the wayside and good habits can just go completely off-piece. And then I go into a spiral of like, I can't, you know, just meme. So I thought, why don't we just build all of that into what we're expecting of ourselves and we're growing? And how can we see it as more of a bumpy line and just accept that we have limited resources and sometimes less capacity? And how can we aim for more of the time?

So is this book then explaining how we can do that then, how we can allow ourselves a bit of grace and not expect too much, even. even if we set a goal that then flops. How can we make it realistic? Yeah. How can we embrace kind of that imperfect route to growth? And I talk a lot in there about like guilt and self-sabotage and internal dialogue and like the standards that we set for ourselves. And yes, it kind of guides you through really.

Oh, it sounds, I mean, it sounds incredible. I'm going to read it. I need to read it actually. 100% I will be. Anna, it has been so lovely having you on. I'm afraid that's how it's coming to an M. but I could sit and chat with you forever. But I can't.

Oh, I love that too. We've got places to go. People to see. Kids to look after because it's the flipping summer holidays. But thank you. It has been wonderful. And go and buy that book because it sounds absolutely flipping incredible. Thank you, Anna.

Thank you. That's for having me. That's a wrap on another episode of Mum's the Word. Thank you so much for joining us today as we were joined by the amazing Anna Martha. Don't forget to leave us a review. Follow us on socials at at Mums the Word underscore pod and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Just search Moms the Word. Until next time, I'm Georgia Jones and this is Moms the Word.

And we'll be back with another episode, same time, same place next week.