Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - CAITLIN AND LEAH SHEIL: Finding A Sperm Donor Is Like A Dating Website

Episode Date: February 23, 2026

This week on Mum’s The Word, Kelsey Parker is joined by Caitlin Sheil and Leah Sheil or a powerful conversation about modern motherhood.They open up about their IVF journey, the emotional highs and lows that came with it, and what it’s really like navigating life as a two-mum family in today’s world.The trio also talk honestly about grief in motherhood, how loss can shape you as parents, and why they’ve made the intentional decision not to show their children’s faces online, protecting privacy in a digital age.Plus, they share all about their debut children’s book, Wonder Mums, a joyful, action-packed celebration of LGBTQ+ families that’s already capturing hearts.It's a beautiful reminder that there’s no one way to build a family.A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to Mums the Word. I'm your host, Kelsey Parker, and today I'm joined by the amazing Caitlin and Leah Schill, the same-sex couple who were brought together by their shared experience with mental health. They have welcomed two children via reciprocal IVF. This process has meant that both Caitlin and Leah have been biologically and physically involved in their pregnancies. For their first child, a son, called Oakley born in 2022. Caitlin's eggs were used and Leah carried the pregnancy.

This month, Caitlin and Leah have published their first children's book, Wonder Mums. So grab a cupper, get comfy and let's jump into a brand new episode of Mums the Word. Welcome. Thank you for having us. Right. Tell everyone about yourselves and your journey and who you are and where you can from, you know, I've given you an amazing intro there. Right. I want to hear from you.

Go on, Caitlin. You can start out. Okay, so we are Caitlin and Leah. We met almost 11 years ago now in Westfield, Stratford. Very specific. Very specific. On the 3rd of September, 2050, very specific. Yeah, we're two moms, two little kids, Oakley and Lila.

And yeah, we're married. And how do you know about your journey? Oh, yeah. We went through reciprocal IVF to have our kids. It was quite crazy. So I carried Leah's egg, which made Lila. Leah carried my egg, which made Oakley. And a lot of people get so confused by that.

And how and why was this decision made? Because we're both very, very maternal, especially me. I think if we done it the other way, I would probably have struggled a little bit more if I'm being completely honest. In what way? Like what if I carried first?

Yeah, Leah was like really wanted to be pregnant. If you carried first with your own egg. Yeah. I think I just have it in me that. I just needed to, one, get pregnant first and two, do reciprocal. So you carried Oakley. First, yeah. It was like the comparison, who's pregnancy, but.

I know. But so, but what made you take each other's eggs? We just both wanted to feel really connected in the pregnancy. Like, I think we overthought it at the beginning, because I feel like now we probably wouldn't even care, like which way we did it. But at the beginning, we thought, oh, we'll both feel part of it. Like, we'll use my egg, so then I feel part of it. And I also induced lactation.

So I also. I was so breastfed Oakley and I wasn't even pregnant, which was crazy. So we both breastfeeding. Right, left. This is a minefield. So when you had Oakley, you breastfed. And I couldn't even breastfeed. She'd done the breastfeeding in job for me.

Yeah, we were both going to breastfeed, but Leo wasn't able to do it. So anyway, I ended up breastfeeding and I'd never even been pregnant before. But why? Because it was your reg. No. No, I just wanted to, like, be involved. You had to induce it by, like, medication. and pumping, didn't it?

Yeah, I had to pump every three hours in that time. But this is what I say to people now. You know, like, when, obviously I think breastfeeding, I love breastfeeding, and I think it's the most incredible thing that you could, you can do in the journey. But people don't realise that you can actually bring it on. Yeah. It's crazy, isn't it? Even if you've had baby dry for however long, do they say dry?

Yeah. When it's all dried up every year. But even before, like, Oakley was born, so if you had a baby crying, Yeah, my boobs would start leaking. It was crazy. I can't see your boobs. I have no, no, I have the flattest boobs. I don't know how they make milk.

I was saying that the other day. I was like, I don't know where the milk is. And I've got big boobs. My boobs can't even produce milk. Well, they could, but I could latch onto mine. Yeah. Which I struggled with at the beginning. I'm going to do it.

I mean, from like the outside, I would have just loved to have been there. It does sound crazy. What did your family think? She's had the baby. No, they've got the baby. Maybe on the boo? Say what happened when Oakley

when they moved Oakley away from him because I had a C-section so they were stitching me up and we both said I would breastfeed Oakley first like she would do the first feed. She didn't she had a boo-back read it. Yes she did. No I didn't know.

She did without me knowing. Poor Oakley was crying his heart out really wanting milk. Oh look you've had the baby. You've had your moment. There's my time to shine now. No, do you know what? When Oakley was born he had the loudest cry

that anyone had ever heard and the nurses, I think they wanted him to shut up and they knew that I'd induced lactation. They was like, can you just get your boob out and just feed the child? But I was like, but I bet you do it first. Like their minds were just blown with all. I think they were.

Yeah, they were. I think they were. I think people now, sadly, still today, are a bit mind-blown that with two moms to our kids. Yeah, it is. We get all the time on. Are your sisters? Are your cousins?

Women's a real mom. Yeah, but you know what? I think people were fascinated. Like I said to you guys before we started this, I was birthing partner with one of my best friends. Well, actually, I've been biring partner to two of my friends. two of my best friends. That's so cool.

And when we was in the hospital, we had lots of questions like that. Really? What relationship are you? Yeah. Like, it was like, what? Like, who are you? What is this?

What is this? I'm like, literally, I'm just her birthing partner. Like, we're just really good friends. Yeah. Her mum is a nervous wreck behind me. And she asked me to be a birthing partner. And there's, the dad's... So I'm guessing you're a good birth in partner then.

The dad wasn't there. I was... Yeah. To be two birthing partners, you must have been good. I was horrendous as a birth in. I'm very spiritual though and very, we're all sort of on the same page. So I knew as well what they wanted. And I think, well, even Kelsey and Dean are my best friends.

But I think even with Kelch, she was like, I know that you will say, you'll speak up for me, you're not Dean. Yeah. So like at one point I came in and Kelsey was like on the gas and then I was like, right, you're stopping that. This is what you're doing. She was like, oh, okay. That's better though.

And even with Rosie, I turned around and was like, look, I can hear them talking behind me and they want to get involved. And she really wanted a natural birth. So I was like, get this baby out now. I was like, because otherwise they're going to come with foreseps and whatever else. And did she get to have the natural bath? Wow. She really researched those. So she knew actually, she said that all of a sudden she just moved her hip into a certain position and then he came.

Wow. You think that the doctors and that would know to be like, maybe if you try this instead of. But you wanted to have a water bath, you couldn't even get out of the bed. I was in so much pain, I couldn't move. I was just silenced sat there for like hours. So you had a C-sections, she couldn't really have a pain off? No, I had an elective C-section because just as I was about to give birth, basically the whole time when I was pregnant, I said, I'm never having a C-section.

That scares me. And then I had an induction. So, because it's IVF, they tell you to have an induction. So as I was sitting there, I was like, Caitlin, I don't know how I'm going to get this baby outside of me. Like I was having a panic attack so bad that the doctors told me you're going to go before twins and everyone else because you just can't cope.

They put her first of the list for the C-sections because they obviously could see how she could cope. I literally was crying my eyes out panicking. I don't know what it was. Do you know who you needed there? You. You? Yeah.

I'm like, right, this is what you're doing. Literally, they probably couldn't wait for me to go home. It's like, bye. Let's just car open. Literally, just let her go first. Let her just go. Yeah. But luckily I did because Oakley was 9-1.

I would never be able to push him out. He was a really big boy. He was a really big boy. We don't know where he got it from though. Because I was only £5 when I was born. Yeah. I had no idea. And then how much did the donor? I don't know.

They don't tell us that. They tell us a lot about the donor but we don't know. Oh yeah, oh for the donor. Yeah. How much did you drive a little one way? Yeah, 715. Yeah, 715. Really random number.

Really random number. I didn't even know it could go to that. 715? Yeah. I was about to give birth and Leah was like, I'm going to guess you weigh £7.15 and I was like, you're joking. Everyone said to me, that's not a number, you're so silly, yeah. I was like, it goes up to 14. Where are you getting 15 from?

She was right. We just had that instinct. She was 7.15. Yeah. So when you have a donor, they don't tell you. No, they do. It's like a dating website. Honestly. Finding a sperm donor is like a dating website. And I'm not joking. So what did you pick? What was you? When you was going to be honest with you, we said it's our friends yesterday. You didn't have these on the question.

You get dumb. The first thing we did, which is really bad, but I think it's just your natural instinct. We were saying this to a friend. We looked what they looked like. Yeah. You can see what they look like, but I mean, you shouldn't judge just by what they look like.

But I mean, you kind of do like, if they do, some of them looked a bit unusual, and we were like, maybe not that one, which I know is awful. Yeah, not unusual, but like... One of them looked a lot like one, Leah's dad, and I just was like... And it feels a bit weird.

That's the one I actually liked as well. It was like you're not using him. Yeah, but you're probably naturally drawn because if you didn't like your dad, then you've been naturally drawn to. But you literally get to know everything about them. You get their whole history, their mum's history, their dad's history.

You get to hear their voice. Because it is a real big decision that you're making and the children got both the same. That's something that we wished we could have done. It was a whole, so we wanted them to originally have the same donor, but the donor company was like, yeah, they'll donate again so you can use him again, but they didn't, he didn't donate again.

So then when we was going through with Lila's donor. Very selfish. I know, right? How dare he? How dare he do that? So anyway, we chose a different donor for Lila. But thank God we did because otherwise we wouldn't have Lila. Yeah, exactly.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because at first we were like heartbroken. Yeah, but I just think it's a shame. Because in your ideal mind. Yeah. But you're not doing the conventional way anyway. So really does it matter?

No. As long as we always say, as long as our kids, have two loving parents or a loving parent. It doesn't actually matter. Yeah. Yeah. At all. You said like obviously when you were deciding

on the egg situation and who to carry, do you feel like now that you overfought that and you would have done that differently now? You would just had your own eggs. No, you would have just not carried at all. I would have been very happy never to be pregnant ever again. She had the most terrible pregnancy.

I hated pregnancy. Yeah. So I had hypromesis, which is like crazy morning. sickness, but not morning sickness, bloody, every minute sickness. I couldn't eat. I had to go into hospital, like, on drips and stuff. It was just awful. So, yeah, I was so glad to get around with me. Yeah. Yeah, if I knew that going ahead, I would, well, I'm glad I did experience pregnancy and birth and everything, but if I could have avoided that. It was a terrible time. I would have

let Leah do it. Yeah. Whereas I love pregnancy. I'm not a confident person, but for once, I was like, I loved my body. I was just so happy. I loved being pregnant. I would be pregnant. I would be pregnant again if I wanted any more kids. See, some people just love being pregnant, don't they? Yeah. Did you enjoy it? I don't know. Like, I feel like all my pregnancies have been so different that I can't.

Yeah. Yeah. Who knows? I could have hypromesis next time. Yeah, and you could have been absolutely fun. Yeah, and I have preecrancy in my first pregnancy and never got that again. So you just. You just never know, do you?

Yeah. Well, it's preclips. Is it when you can't, I don't know, it's like, the high blood pressure is high blood pressure and literally if you have seen me. Really? I was huge. You blow up with it. Don't you?

Like my legs, my feet, everything. You just wouldn't have even recognised me as the person. I look back at pictures now and I think, how did no one, like, go, I think she's real. Did you go pregnancy nose? You have to show his picture. Kayla looked like a different person. How nice?

All my face had swelled. And I'd messaged my friend and took a, and she was like, I think you need to go to hospital. I was like, no, obviously I've just slept funny. But literally everything was just swollen. Oh, gosh. So yeah, my nose was. So did your nose spread?

My nose. Yeah. When I look back at the photos, I was like, I look like a different person. Who even is that? Yeah. I actually sent a photo to some friends recently. It was the like two days after I gave birth and I'd been sleeping. And where I'd like, obviously had a lot of water attention, when I sat up, half my face was flat and the other half was all swollen. I literally like don't even look like myself. It's crazy. It is just crazy. Yeah. It is crazy. It's what body does. So what was actually quite lovely though, yeah, that once you've both had a baby, babies, that you could understand. how each other felt. So once she had Lila, you must have been the most supportive partner. Well, it was a hard...

Is this the truth? Can that's the truth? No, this is very deep. It's very deep. Can I say? I don't know what you're going to say. Sadly, your mum passed away at the beginning of the pregnancy.

And we used to suffer with, like, eating disorders. And I didn't... We didn't know she had hypnosis, so I thought you wasn't eating because you're grieving. Yeah. So I would be like, to Katie,

you have to eat. Like, one for yourself for mom for the baby and you were like I feel sick but I thought she was just grieving you didn't realize

I was actually like really unwell so at the beginning I just we didn't know how unwell she was and it was like the two lines were blurred

because obviously but do you think obviously from me from a spiritual angle that that might have been the case do you know what I don't know maybe partly

it could have like triggered it maybe or like made it worse are you a sicky person no I'm not a sicker I am a sicky person. Are you?

So like I would, like that's sometimes how I cope with certain situations are throw up. Like it's, I don't think people, they're like, that's weird. Like some people are so scared. Sorry if you do hate talking about sick. We're just talking about it for a second. But I'm like every occasion. If you're quite a sicky person. If I'm tired, it hung over.

Yeah. I don't know, like any occasion you could possibly be sick at, there's me like, oh. Really? See, I'm the opposite. Because when I was younger, I had a metapobia. so I hated sick and would like hold it in. So yeah, I don't think. But sometimes like with grief,

you get grief out in a certain way. Yeah. That might have been. Maybe it was a mix of both maybe. Yeah. It could have been. So how did you feel like you dealt with your pregnancy going through grief? I feel like it did give me like a reason to like get up and carry on

because I feel like without that I might have just slipped into like a really dark place which I did slip into a dark place. But I feel like it was like it gave. me a reason to eat, a reason to make sure I was drinking water, like getting on with life. And then obviously we had Oakley as well and I feel like I just tried to focus on that. But yeah, I think I did find it really hard because I couldn't enjoy pregnancy because I was literally going to tell my mum pretty much the day that she passed away before we, before she passed away. I was literally going to tell her that we were pregnant because she knew we had

the transfer. And she asked you that morning, the night before saying, I've got a feeling you're pregnant and you said, oh, you have to wait and find out. Yeah, and then we were planning on telling her And then I obviously never got to So I feel like that hung heavy over me For the pregnancy because I was like Oh, if I just told her on that FaceTime When she asked me, she would have at least known

But she does know Yeah, because she 100% does know Oh yeah, no, you're talking to me here She hadn't seen it. She would have known as well Yeah You're saying your mum knew Yeah, she had a feeling didn't she?

But also when we've had something We go to like psychic readings And on the psychic readings They always mention your mum and Lila. Yeah, which is quite, it's nice to hear, isn't it? Well, I just think, especially when you go through grief, you have to do what's right for you

and what helps, because some people go, oh no, I can't go and see mediums, I can't do that, but if that gives you peace, then I think that's what you have to do. I mean, some of the mediums have been rubbish. Yeah, you try to imagine it, though. She's like, I really hope they mention my mum, I really hope they do, and then they do, and then you get all skeptical.

Yeah, then I'm like, oh, I don't want to, like, put my full belief into it. I don't know if I'm worried about it, like, I don't know, that it will hurt me or I'll get too emotional. So I kind of, like, I've got some good people. Have you? You have to let us know. We've had horrendous people. Some of them have been a bit, but some of them have been really good. Like, they asked me, did I have a special ring?

And I literally am wearing, like, they didn't see my ring. And I've got a ring of my mum's ashes. And then they knew that they said, oh, have you used your mum's name for your daughter? And we did, it's her middle name. And like, just certain things that they said, we were like, that's crazy how they were Get the other people that are like, oh, your husband's downstairs. And we're like, no, we don't have a husband. Yeah, I don't have a husband.

But we don't say it. Because obviously you don't say anything. So we're just like, mm-mm. Yeah. Try not to give too much away. But most of them think we've got husbands, don't know? Yeah. Yeah.

No. You're like, no, we've not. And funny story. Yeah, actually. Yeah, actually. I breastfed. Yeah. Go into the whole.

Yeah. So you actually breastfed both babies then. Yeah. Yeah. You did. Which is crazy. people I heard about it I saw these two girls online

called Ali and Sam who did it they had they had babies and that's what that's what gave me the idea because I never knew it was a thing that you could even induce lactation milkmates back in the like oh yeah

what do they call? Bilt they are wet nurses but short wet nurses that's what they used to actually have in hospitals didn't they yeah and like

well I think it's hemmy the eight that's all time They would go and take the baby off and then they would... But were they pregnant before? Surely they must have induced lactation as well. But you know what's really sad? You kept on having to pump, obviously, to induce the lactation because your body had to think it was pregnant.

Yeah. So we had phoned the doctors and was like, unlike the hospital, saying we have so much milk we would love to donate the milk to babies. They said, no, you can't. It's like medicated milk. Because I had to take John Peridone for to produce the milk. But we're just like, literally, you was like a cow pumping. every minute and then just dumping it.

Yeah, it was crazy. I wonder if that you necessarily have to take that. You don't have to. No, you can induce it without it, but... What do you have to do? Literally just pump every three hours, watch videos of babies crying and stuff, apparently helps. But they say skin to skin straight away

with baby can just bring that on. Yeah. But this was before the baby. You started at what, when I was 12 weeks pregnant? 17 weeks pregnant. Yeah. It was very dedicated. That's why when you were having the seat section, she couldn't wait.

She's like, hold on. This is my time. You've carried the baby. I think you did do the first feed though because I waited. Oakie just couldn't, no, he could not latch on to my nipples. She did try because he was crying. But was you a little bit scared? No, my, this is really TMI, but my nipples are like.

You tell me about your nips. Her nipples are the pointiest things you've ever. Mine are like volcano. No, but my one has a flat. Mine had to be, they suck them down. That's why it would have been the most painful thing you'd ever gone through. But they have to draw, obviously mine aren't like that now. Yeah.

Mine are out. But the baby has to draw the nipple out. My mum is brutal. My mum literally came round and got to my boobs, got the baby. Really? And stuck arralia on my boob and was like, come on. Really? Like, I feel like that so I get it from my mum.

Yeah. But that is how I breastfed because I was like that, oh my God. Oh my God. Once you've been through that, you've been through the seaset. She's been through all that stuff. You've been in juice. You've had all this stuff, don't you?

Literally now and they're like. Yeah. That's what you probably were the better person to do it. Yeah, because it was easier, isn't it? You've gone through all of that and you think, oh, I know you can see why so many people shy away from breastfeeding in the car. Definitely, yeah. It's that pressure of going, I've just gone through all of that.

I feel absolutely fucked. You just want to relax. When the midwife came over and they were like, oh, you really need to breastfeed, it's better to have your milk and all of that. But then I was like, well, I'm obviously not going to do lactation with Lila because, one, I don't have time, I've got a toddler. And two, she's probably not going to latch on to me. But anyway, she was crying one time and Caitlin was in the toilet.

And she latched onto my bloody nipple. And I didn't have any milk. Yeah, you were like, oh, I should have induced lactation for her. She literally lats on to me. Yeah. If you would have sat there for a little while, it would have come. Do you think? It could have done, to be fair, yeah.

Yeah, it probably could have done. Wow. Yeah. I love this. I actually love this. best talk ever. You should give it a go now, Leah. You might as well.

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Like, if we take the kids to the doctors, they always ask us, like, who's the mum? And then we'll say we're both the mums and they look at us like we're aliens. They're like, what? We've heard so, this is so random. And are you both mum? No, I'm mum and your mummy. Yeah.

Mummy, yeah. Anyway, that will change. I'm mama at the moment. Are you? He just, he's like, mama. Really? Lila was calling me Leah at one point, wasn't she? That broke your heart.

Yeah, I was like really upset. Yeah, but that's because, yeah. Because I say Leah, she then heard and was like, Yeah You need to call me mum Because I call Caitlin Mom in the house I'm like go ask Mum

Yeah Mum this, mum that So yeah Do you know what I This was from years ago They were talking about On a TV show

And they were saying Oh do you call your partner Like mum Yeah Or dad Like daddy At home But it's like

Well obviously I'm in a different situation Because there's not a dad It's mum or will Yeah But I feel like Will will go, oh, go and ask mummy, go and ask mum. That's better. But yeah, I guess it's like going ask mummy, go and ask mum.

I always call, you just, it's just a habit. You refer to as Leah. No, I don't say to the kids. We're going to have a debate. You don't say, go tell Leah. No, you don't. No, but if I'm calling you, I'm like, Leah or whatever, and they hear it. Yeah.

Yeah. But they've got out of that now. They've got out of it. Thankfully. Mum. We're trying to teach the kids at the moment that they have a donor, aren't we? Two mummies and a donor. So we keep saying to them like Oakley Lila do you have a dad

And Oakley goes yeah We're like no you got two mummies Yeah Well I guess for them It will all become their story and who they are Yeah I mean growing up I would have loved to have two mums Yeah

I feel like mums are like different aren't they Well in our maybe we've just got daddy issues Have you both got daddy issues Yes That's yeah No, it's just I mean, we couldn't love the kids anymore if we tried and I just think that's the most important thing.

Because, look, even my story is different to your story. Our intention was to have a mum and dad a perfect life and that's not worked out for me. So it's what your truth is. Like my kids, I go in and when they're going to school, I'm like, you have to tell your truth to people. But that's hard for them because it's such like they might as well do a mic drop, especially

around her, she's just like, oh yeah, my dad's dead. And everyone's like, oh, oh, bless. Yeah. I feel like, so far, like, I don't really think it's a norm anymore, is it? No, like every family is so different. I think every family is so different now. But I just think, you know, 20 years ago. It would have been there, yeah, but now.

Yeah, it would have been a taboo subject to even bring up, wouldn't it? Would you say 20 years ago? Probably. Well, it was only legal for us to get married, like, in 2015. Yeah. So that's not that long ago, really, just over 10 years ago. 10 years ago. Yeah.

That's crazy. It is crazy. It is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. About 20 years ago, yeah. So you go to the doctors and they're like, okay, you're both the mums. And then...

No, they're like, well, what ones have you used a sister? We're like, no, we're both moms. And then it takes them literally like a three minutes. It feels like three minutes. It's just silent. It's probably like, looking at us like, wait, what? and then they realise and they overcompensate, don't they? Oh, that's really lovely.

Yeah, and it's where people don't know what to say. So they say too much. And you're like, no, no, no, just get yourself out the hole now. This is our life. Just move on. We're happy, we're fine. You don't need to be like, oh my God. Oh, they get so confused.

But then in certain situations, we just don't say anything. We just can't be bothered to explain it. Yeah. But then I feel like, I don't know, like when the kids are older and doctors and stuff or whoever are like, are questioning it, I feel a bit sorry for them because what are they going to think?

Like, will they feel like abhor? Does it even need to be a question? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So I don't want the kids to know every time they go to the doctors, like they know where their mums. It's annoying for people to say,

so what one are you? I think they have to write it on their system who comes in. But also, I do think even say if they were looking at their history, mm-hmm, surely it's on there. It's on there. But also that would be different as well.

So say they needed medical history. Yeah. Well then they would go to... It is like that though, isn't it? Yeah. So it's your medical history. Yeah, they do get confused. Especially when they were first born

because they would say, so what one of you carried? And then they would ask so, say, it was me that carried. They would ask about my history. I'd be like, no, you need to ask about her history. I feel like you two did it to be like, right. We just wanted to confuse everyone.

Yeah, absolutely everyone. Yeah, and then obviously their other history will be the donors history. Yeah, which we do have. Yeah. So, yeah. It's complicated. It's unique, but it's also your life, your journey.

But to us, it doesn't feel complicated. It just feels so normal. It's normal, isn't it? To us, yeah. That's your normal. But what is normal now? What is other people's normal? Exactly.

Everyone's different. Everyone's got their own normal, haven't they? Yeah. And I think it's each to their own. Exactly, 100%. So you. you ladies don't show the children's faces online? No, no.

What's your reason? AI, what is it? Literally, everything, I feel like. Everything, yeah. I feel like, we always were like, oh, we don't really want to show our kids. And then when they were there, we just looked at them and like, we sometimes get hate because obviously we're a two-month family, we're gay, whatever. And we're like, if we can help it, we don't want to subject our children to any of that.

So that's one reason. Yeah, then also, again, yeah, AI. Like the stuff that can be done with people's faces now that it's just, it's scary. Like we were on TikTok the other day and we saw this mum like showing a kid potty training and stuff and the amount of shares and saves that these videos have like you just don't know who's watching.

We don't judge any parent that does it but I do think you can do it in a respectful way. I feel really judged right now. No, I show my ketosis. But it's so different. Naked and like potty training. I do not naked. Yes, they do.

In their underwear, yeah. In their underwear. Like, I think there's a line, isn't there? There's a line. Yeah. But also, again, it's how you see that line too. Because at the same time, it's like, why should I have to protect my kids from weirdos on the internet? Like, you know, like, why are they weirdos out there?

You shouldn't even have to think about that. Yeah. But there always has been and there always will be. And I think will ever change. It's sad. Yeah. We just know too much now. We do.

Yeah. I think we know too much. That's why the world seems so scary. Yeah. But I don't think the world has changed. That's true, yeah. I think the same weirdos. It's just new avenues for them, isn't there? New avenues and we just thrown it all the time and we're so aware of everything. Yeah, it's true. I think we overthink everything with the kids, don't we though?

We do, we do probably overthink it. I think you're because your children are so precious to you because you've gone through such a journey to get your children. And I think when you, you know, a lot of people that come on here that have been through IVF or been through a journey to have their children, and they are so precious to you. You know, we was talking about them going to preschool. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I will literally be one of them parents that are at the gate.

Should be like him. Through the windows. I've gone like five times and say, is he playing with anyone? What's he doing? What's he eating? Because Lila's not going yet. I would literally be a nightmare.

Yeah. But it'll be Lila. But when Aurelia went full time, Bode was in his element. Was he? Oh, he loved it. He only went to reception in September. and he was gutted when he had to go five days.

Was he? He was like, because Mondays and Fridays were our day. Obviously he did preschool. But they were like the days that we would spend together and do stuff. I bet he loved it. He was like, so we're not going to have that. I'm like, no, but you're going to go to school. You're going to be with your friends.

Like five days a week. He was like, yeah, but we do stuff without Arania. That's so cute. We were actually talking about that. We don't know if Lila will like it or if she'll miss Oakley. No, she's their siblings, but when they've got you. When she's got you to herself, she will love it. And she's never really had that.

You're going to have to be like, I can't say what we've been doing. Yeah, because it'll be jealous. He's going to be like, what? I've been doing learning. You three have all been out. I'm the lovely time. So true. Oh my gosh, I can't believe the kids are growing up.

It feels like just yesterday we gave birth. I know. But you can imagine when they both go to school full time. We don't know what we're going to do with ourselves. What will you do? We've never done it in our life, but we're like, we're going to start Pilate. She's never done it being as fast. We're going to go to the gym.

And normally we hate the gym. Yeah, we're going to just do all these things that we can't do. We'll have to actually talk to each other as well. Yeah, that's the worst. It's weird. We only talk about the kids now, don't we? No, you'll still be talking about the kids. Don't worry.

When they start of school, there's plenty more to talk about. Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah, we do everything together there. You both are you in the group chats? Is there a group chat? Wait, what? Because it's a WhatsApp group chats for school.

Come on. Is there? We're not in that. Come on. We're not used to that well. You won't be. I don't know. Does it get a bit too?

It depends what preschool you get to do. Because I was in a WhatsApp group chat for preschool. Really? Yeah. What? The teachers make it or the parents? Oh. I guess that's quite good because then if you have any problems or whatever. But we'll both be in it.

We'll both. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, both. Oh my God. Yeah. It's going to be a whole new world. It will be. It is going to be a whole new world.

What are you like when you drop them to school? Do you just go in like your pajamas or do you have to like get ready? Oh yeah. I literally have the, Longest coat in the world. Yeah. And I sometimes just keep the pajamas on. That's what I would do.

I've hardly ever, I never have makeup on. Really? Like, yeah, I never do the school run with makeup. I'm literally. There's no point. I sometimes will go straight to the gym and do polo. That'll be our new routine. I see TikToks with people like get ready with me to go on the school run.

I'm like, I don't think I'm going to be a... You'll be going in your Halloween pajamas in summer. I still wearing Halloween pajamas. Yeah, I love it. They get, especially a regular shoe, we'll get excited if I pick her up from school and I've got makeup on. Really? She's like, if I've done like TV work on,

and she's like, her mom! She's like so happy because she's probably like, my mum just looks a state all the time. Oh no. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not the mum that dresses up for the school round now. No, I don't think I would be. That would not be us. So going back to when you two met,

so I'm interesting, so you both met at Westfield, you just, like, because that was quite like a brief. You didn't explain that really well. So it's quite a weird, story, like all of our stories seem to be weird. I like, I love a weird story. So we both struggled with eating disorders and there was this online community sort of thing

on Instagram where people would like talk and stuff and like help each other through it. And then Leah made like this arrangement with people. Basically it was a thing where you do meetups and you would go out to eat and like go. It sounds weird. It sounds weird. But you'd go out to eat and sort of like support each other and stuff like that. With actually eating whilst you were with X-P? Were people really quite severe?

Some people were really severe, yeah, and we would all just kind of go out, like, chat. It just felt like, because we were all going through the same thing. We had that sort of thing in common. We could talk to each other about it. So anyway, Leah made a meet-up sort of group thing, and I didn't know, I didn't follow her or anything then, and she tagged me in it.

I was like, is anyone from Essex or London, and then tagged me? So did you know about me? I didn't think I was gay at the time. No, she thought she was straight. I was straight You've been with girls before So you were, I knew you were gay So you were 100% gay

Yeah, and Leah was straight But I think you must have Subconsciously had something going on So she invited me on this meetup And then it's literally As soon as we met We just had this instant connection And we just kind of just was by ourselves

The whole time for the thing, weren't we? So you'd break me up and blanked everyone else Yeah It's really mad, isn't it? Pretty much. We made me up for all of you But I'm just meeting, Caitlin. Yeah.

That was you. And then ever since that day, the 3rd of September 2015, we have literally been inseparable. Yeah. One day we've not spoken. Yeah. Nothing. So it is lovely that we've gone through like,

we met each other at hard times of our life. Yeah. And now we've got our two kids. And we've got our own little family, which is really lovely. Yeah. But it's been a roller coast, obviously. But I think sometimes when you meet people in them circumstances,

that you've gone through so much to get to where you are and then we run the journey together. Yeah. Our families thought we were like best friends for like six months to a year. Yeah, we didn't tell them. We were too scared. Yeah.

Yeah. But they were really accepting, which was nice. But obviously not from, did your parents know that you? It's kind of complicated. So I wasn't like 100% short because we're both, we would say that we're like pansexuals.

So I liked boys and girls and there was like one girl that I liked before Leah, which my mum knew about. Can I talk about this girl. I'm joking. I hear it. So I still wasn't like 100% sure what I was

until I met Leah. Yeah, so my mum knew that I liked this girl before but I was kind of like, yeah, not 100% sure. So I still was sort of like a bit scared to tell anyone so we still didn't tell our parents. So when you first met you just spent a lot of time together and they were a bit like... Everyone was just...

Yeah, and then when they knew we were together they were like, oh, you're not sleeping in the same bed and we're like... We have been... We have a bit late now. Yeah. We kept that a secret, didn't we? Yeah, yeah. I love that, actually. You can actually get away with more, can't you?

Yeah, which is best friends. Actually, the only person that expected it was my neighbour. Do you remember? Yeah. I thought something was going on there. I thought I saw you two slogging by the car. Maybe they did. I can't remember what happened.

That's why she actually ended up telling her parents, because you heard from a family member that this neighbour had suspicions or something. So she was like, we better tell people now. Yeah. And what was your parents' reaction? So I tell my mum. And you head under the covers to tell your mum.

I was like 19 at the time. I was absolutely petrified. So I like, I text her. And then she come downstairs and I didn't know what to us. I just put the covers over my head. And she was just like, she was so lovely. She said, as long as you're happy, I'm happy. And I've never seen you so happy.

Which was really lovely, wasn't it? Yeah. And my mum, I texted her as well and she was really happy. I don't know why we both felt like we had to text our parents. I think why I feel like to text him. Sorry, but I think when you tell your parents anything, you just don't know what they're gonna say. Obviously, they were really lovely.

Whatever news you're telling them, you're just like, oh yeah, by the way, I'm doing this or, I don't know, I don't even know what you're scared of your parents. Yeah. Even when you asked my mum, if obviously you can marry me, you text my mum. I texted her first, yeah, and then she phoned me and was like, yeah, of course.

Did she phone you? Yeah. I don't know that, yeah. Everything's just on text. But my dad found out because Leah decided to add us as girlfriends on Facebook as a joke but she didn't realize I had to accept it so she like requested me as a girl like back when you had to accept it. Hey girlfriend. Yeah and then my dad rang me up going congratulations and that's how he found out. I felt so bad but normally you have to accept it. I mean I can't just say it just

yeah but who even puts their relationships on Facebook? Well who haven't you did that? You're not official until you put it on Facebook. I don't know that that was it back in yeah 2000 when did you say 15? 15 that was what we did yeah and all your friends. I don't know even have Facebook anymore. No, same, literally. Same. Right, tell me about the book. Show me the book.

You can lift the book up. We've got the book. We've got it right here. Finally, this has been like two and a half years in the making. Yeah, go on, you have a good look. Thank you. It's literally got Oakley and Lila

and Caitlin's mom and us in the book. Yeah. So it's basically about a little boy because when we first started writing this book we didn't have Lila. So the main character is Oakley and he's called Oakley wonders.

You've got to write another book then. We're going to write another book. Lila's in it. Lila's in it, but yeah. Oakley's the main character. He's got two moms that have superpowers and then it's his birthday and he wishes that he also had superpowers. But so many things go wrong on this birthday.

So his mums are out fighting aliens and stuff and he's home with his sister and his Nana Anna, who we added into the book after my mom passed away. And yeah, they have to defeat these balloon unicorns and cake monsters without superpowers. But in the end, And he has superpowers, doesn't he? Yeah. He gets his wish. And the kids absolutely love it.

Like, you literally just show them the book and they're like, Lila, Mommy Caitlin, Eaukely, Lena Anna. And they just, it's just so wonderful to actually have. It is. And we really wanted to bring out sort of an inclusive children's book without it being like in your face, that it's sort of, that they have two moms. We wanted it to just sort of be a thing.

It's fun, isn't it? Yeah. So that was the inspo behind the book. Yeah, because. What made you both think? You're going to write kids' books. Well, we've always loved books, especially me. I've loved books.

And both our kids, their favourite thing to do before bed is to read a book. But all of the books have a mum and a dad in, which obviously, like, you know, most people have a mum and a dad. But we just found it so hard to find a book that did have, like, our family in it. So we just wanted to bring one out so that even other families that maybe have, like, two moms or two dads, they can feel a bit like more included. Or even just any family that just are more. open to different types of families because obviously as we said the world's changing it's not

always just that stereotypical family so that's why we're doing it and also it's pretty cool to say to our kids you've got a book you're in a book you're in Anna Anna and your mum well that's it well book day yeah yeah you two better be at the school gates in your outfit oh we will be gosh I need a A picture of that a few years time, right? We're going to have to get the kids' little clothes like that as well. Yeah, but they can. That's literally one bookday right there. I know.

And if they ask, we'll say, you just say you're you in your book. Yeah. I'm Oakley in my name book. Yeah, exactly. We actually, for Oakley's second, third birthday, gosh, bird birthday. He wanted a Wonder Mom's little birthday cake and everything, so we got him one. It was so cute. Yeah.

And all the kids were a little superhero cake. Yeah. And that's a wrap on another episode of Mums the Word. Thank you so much for joining us today as we were joined by the amazing Caitlin and Leah Shield. Don't forget to leave us a review, follow us on socials at Mums The Word underscore pod and subscribe to our YouTube channel

where you can watch our episodes in full. Just search Mums the Word. Until next time, I'm Kelsey Parker and this is Mums the Word. And we'll be back with another episode. same time, same place next week.