Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - DANAE MERCER RICCI: Travelling as a Mum, Dealing with Trolls & Living in the Moment
Episode Date: January 13, 2025In this week's episode of Mum’s The Word with Georgia Jones, we’re joined by the incredible Danae Mercer Ricci – journalist, body confidence advocate, and mum! 🎙️✨Together, they dive into... the realities of traveling as a mum, sharing the highs, the challenges, and the unexpected joys that come with taking little ones on the road. Danae also opens up about dealing with online trolls, how she handles negativity, and the importance of setting boundaries for mental well-being.But it’s not all about the tough stuff! They also chat about the beauty of living in the moment, embracing the present, and finding joy in everyday motherhood. 💕This is an episode full of honesty, wisdom, and a whole lot of mum-life realness – don’t miss it! 🎧A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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Welcome back to another episode of the brand new season of Mums the Word. I'm Georgia Jones
and joining me today is the most inspirational woman, Denae. Now, Denae is not only an incredible
journalist who has worked as the editor-in-chief of Women's Health Middle East, she's also
a content creator and public speaker who looks to inspire women across the world to love
themselves a little bit more more and that she does.
As well as all this, Danae is a mother to a beautiful little girl.
So grab a cuppa, get comfy and let's jump in to a brand new episode of Mum's The Word.
Welcome Danae! It is so lovely to have you on the show.
Well it's so nice to be here. This is a very beautiful studio.
I know, Denae's been admiring my studio. I feel very proud of it, actually.
I feel like a professional for once.
I mean, it is very professional. There's a lot of lights.
There is, isn't there?
I'm glowing, yeah.
I am shining. I always forget to put powder on before I come in,
and then I watch it back, I'm like, oh.
No, but it's a thing, though.
Like, this kind of... They call it, like it like deuskin don't they? Glass skin
glass skin yeah so you have glass skin I need a bit of glass skin because I'm tired
and so you're here you're in the UK because you live in Italy now don't you
well kind of I'm sort of based between Italy and here and Dubai and the US so
it just sometimes it feels like I live on an airplane.
You're a well traveled girl, aren't you?
So is my toddler.
You're well, which is quite nice actually,
to have a toddler that's used to traveling at that age.
I'm lucky that she's always been a really good traveler.
I mean, it's not a relaxing flight.
No.
She likes to run up and down the aisles,
which is mostly okay, except once she,
she did almost knock over someone's glass of wine.
So that was a little, you know, you're like.
It's when you get somebody that doesn't like kids on flights
and they just don't understand that's what kids are like.
And it's hard, isn't it?
Cause you're trying, you're like almost apologizing
for them, but then you're also like,
no, you're a grown up.
You're the one that's acting like a kid here.
Yeah, I've been really lucky.
I've always been sat next to really good people,
especially when she was smaller,
people who would help me or hold the baby
if I had to get, I don't know, a wrap or a bag
or food or something.
So I've been really lucky.
But also I'm quite merciless when it comes to,
if anyone judges any mom for bringing their child on a flight
I get so angry because it is a world where children exist and we if we are so positive
towards women and childhood then we need to allow those women to exist in that world.
Yeah we need to be able to function as working moms in this world don't we?
Yeah. Actually we always talk about it's not massively set up for us yet. But we're getting there aren't we?
Well I hope so, I hope so.
We're on the way.
So for anybody that doesn't know who you are, which would very much surprise me, just give
us a little backstory on you and who you are, don't you?
Oh alright, gosh well when I was six years old.
Yeah, I was born on these.
I know exactly, under a bright moon, shining stars.
No, look, I have a background as a journalist.
That's sort of like my professional bio.
I was a journalist, I'm a journalist.
I went viral during COVID for talking about body image,
mental health, self-love, all the stuff
that I think us women really struggle with
and things that are on my mind.
And now I'm lucky enough that I think us women really struggle with and things that are on my mind. And now I'm lucky
enough that I get to talk to over 2 million women a day about things very close to my heart. So
whether that's about cellulite or my fertility journey or being a mom. Yeah. And you are a mom
to Aurora. Yes. And you are a mom to another little one in your tummy. Congratulations. In my tummy, yeah.
So we're gonna have two soon.
We are.
And then I nipped into a bookstore this morning
and there was a book that was, it's like,
where do babies come from?
Or like mommy's tummy is a house or something.
I don't know, something like that.
Oh, to explain.
Yeah, because I've been trying to explain to my toddler
that there's a baby growing in my body.
I think she thinks, I don't know if I'm allowed to say boobs.
You can say whatever you want.
You can swear.
You're not a sweary though, are you?
But yeah, you can say whatever you want.
I think she thinks the baby's growing in my boobs.
Oh, okay.
Why?
Because your boobs have grown.
Massively.
Massively.
I have gone from like, kind of a non-cup to, they're pretty sizable now.
And they grew much faster than my tummy.
And so when i'm like oh
you know adora there's there's a baby in mommy and mommy there's a baby crying where's the baby
and she'll touch my boobs she'll be like baby baby i love children for that innocence
like even now to be honest in it even now koopa's nearly seven and he still doesn't quite
understand where babies live or how they're made.
That's an interesting conversation when you get to it, definitely.
Well, I saw some books, there are some books about that too, like The Birds and the Bees.
Yeah.
Yeah, so.
It's a learning curve. It's all such a curve, isn't it?
It's cute though, like the way their little brains work.
Oh.
It's beautiful.
It is, it really is. So when you got pregnant,
because obviously you do all this work
on self-love of your body,
did the way people reacted to you change at all
when you became pregnant and then after you had the baby,
did they look at you in a different way and go,
well, you know, well, you've had a baby,
oh yeah, it's all right for you
because you've got a baby in your tummy
and did you get any negativity?
Did things change?
Yeah.
Do you know, I think first off, being pregnant,
as anyone who is listening and has gone through this,
it is such an interesting and complex time
for your body image, for your mental health.
I loved slash I love being pregnant.
I have never felt so beautiful and so confident.
I never wore so many fitted dresses.
All this, you know, I love it.
I love it.
And before being pregnant, I wasn't sure,
because I've spoken about this in the past.
I've struggled with body image when I was younger.
I had disordered eating.
So I was like, okay, well, what will being pregnant do to me?
How will I navigate that?
Will I struggle?
Will it be a hard time?
Yeah, well, you were worried.
I was worried, yeah.
I was like, well, you know, because it's
such a huge change in your body, and one you can't control,
and you can't explain or predict, really.
But it wasn't.
For me, it wasn't.
I loved it.
One of the things that did surprise me personally
is I was not prepared.
And looking back, I'm like, oh my gosh, I was just so naive, but I was not prepared for,
after I gave birth, for just, in a way,
your body almost looks like it's pregnant still.
Oh wait, I mean, it does.
I was exactly the same.
I thought that as soon as you had the baby,
that the tummy would go.
It just kind of.
I don't know why we would think that.
I don't know. we would think that,
because obviously it's grown for nine months,
it's not going to go back in a day.
But it's a shock, isn't it?
It's a shock, and I was like,
well, it kind of looks like there's a baby there,
but there's not a baby there,
but it's, and I was like, what is,
this is so different than what I expected.
That really surprised me, because I was like, wow, is this
my body now? Like, is this what I'm going to navigate? So I found that, like, I found
the postpartum to be a very kind of difficult time. And at the same time, I was dealing,
you asked if there was negative comments, I was dealing with a real huge influx of kind
of online negativity.
Really? That you think was linked to having a baby?
Oh, a thousand percent. They like, I remember, because there's a, there are forums and websites
dedicated to hating on influencers. And again, I didn't know this until like, because I'm
a journalist, I have Google alerts set up to catch.
Oh, no. Did you go out? Did you look?
So I was there. I remember I was a new mom. I was struggling with breastfeeding. I was really sick. I had, like, fever. I was in bed with my baby.
Yeah, mastitis, didn't you?
Mastitis, yeah. And I had it. It got really bad to the point I was getting, like, shots in my butt twice a day.
Oh, my gosh. Really bad then?
Yeah. I didn't share this partially because I remember around this time when all this
was such a difficult time for me and I got this ping on my phone and it was like, oh,
Google alert, Danae Mercer, whatever.
So I clicked on it and it took me to this forum, this thread.
And the opening sentence from one of these women was like, oh, Danae Mercer has gotten
so annoying since she's had a baby.
And I remember like, I was so shocked. And of course you read it because human nature.
Of course you do. Yeah. Yeah. It's very, it's like a car crash, isn't it? You can't stop.
Yeah. And it was, it was just the most awful stuff. Like she's an awful mother. Her baby looks
miserable with her. Like her baby hates her. And you're sat there with like,
I got like one swollen boob, I'm getting shots in my butt.
Like I'm-
Your hormones are all over the place.
Oh my God, everything's, I feel like, oh my God.
Everyone hates me.
Everyone hates me, my baby hates me.
Like what is it?
Yeah.
I'm the worst mom ever.
And you can't rationalize it, can you?
No.
No matter how many people say they're just trolls,
their face is trolls,
they're probably really unhappy with their own lives,
you still go, oh, you feel it.
You feel it deep, don't you?
Yeah, well, I read something once that said,
as human, human beings, we are designed,
we evolved in small communities.
So our instinct is to take in the feedback
of these small communities to be safe, to exist, to live. We are not meant to handle the feedback of these small communities to be safe, to exist, to live.
We are not meant to handle the feedback of thousands
or hundreds of thousands of people, just like evolutionary,
which is one of the things that makes social media
so complex.
It's like our brains cannot deal with that,
especially if it gets overwhelmingly negative,
which, you know, this forum was like five women,
but it was just the most
horrific vitriol. I think that it's the worst time to get negative comments as well when you've just
had a baby and you don't know what you're doing. It was your first. It's just, it cuts in a different
way doesn't it? But you know I've thought about it a lot since then. And obviously, I'm now pregnant with my second and onto the next journey.
I think it's made me more empathetic to all the women.
I think there are so many women, not influencers,
women just existing in their lives, who in one way or another
have just had a child or are pregnant or are new moms
and are dealing with that kind of negativity,
whether it's from someone on the street
or a mother-in-law or I don't know, a bad family member,
whatever it is, and they have to learn how to navigate that.
It just, it makes me feel for them.
You know, and feel very protective.
I'm like, I wanna go fight them off and tell, you know,
new moms, you're doing great.
Like-
You do, don't you?
I think most times I've walked past
like a slightly frazzled looking mom on the street
and I think I would really like to just go up to her
and go, whatever you're doing, you're doing a good job.
You're doing great.
But I always think they're probably just gonna think
I'm a weirdo.
Yeah.
But in my head, it seems really nice.
It seems like a really nice idea.
But I think you should share.
Like I've really started to challenge myself
when I have a positive thought to share it with someone.
Cause I feel like we never know
when someone else needs to hear that.
You never know. I remember one girl came up to me once, I was on the tube. She came up
to me just to tell me she liked my trousers. And honestly, I could have, I think I was
on the brink of tears that day anyway. And I nearly cried. I thought, God, she's got
to think about it. I started crying because she says she liked my jean. But she had no idea the impact that day,
that comment has on me and how nice it made me feel.
Exactly.
Because sometimes you just need to hear a compliment,
don't you?
Exactly, exactly.
But people don't give each other them enough.
Well, because we worry about the reaction,
we worry about the response,
but heck, if they think we're weird, fine, whatever.
But like that is the worst case scenario.
The best case is you have made someone's day,
maybe they needed to hear that,
they needed to hear they're a great mom or, I don't know,
this, the air hostess yesterday had amazing lipstick
and I was like, I really like that and the colors.
Did you tell her?
I did, I did.
I was proud of myself.
And did she look happy?
She looked happy, yeah, she looked happy.
Oh, a little bit, good.
I did then rapidly flee the situation,
but I did tell her. Better for internal embarrassment, but I really, I made someone feel happy. Yeah, she looked happy. Oh, I love it. I did then rapidly flee the situation, but I didn't tell her.
Internal embarrassment,
but I really, I made someone feel happy.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, yeah, if anyone's listening to this,
go and tell someone they look nice today, please.
I'll tell them they're doing a good job.
Yeah.
Spread the positivity.
Yeah.
So, right, I read something,
I'm going off on a tangent a little bit here,
but I really want to start right with this.
I read one of your posts. It hacked off on a tangent a little bit here, but I really want to start with this. I read one of your posts. It harked back to your childhood a little bit and it
kind of made me think that maybe it wasn't like the best upbringing. And I just wondered,
what I wanted to ask you was, was there something that made that little denier then want to
go on and be a self-loving den it? Did something happen when you were little to make
you want to be that person?
No, I mean, I, you're right.
I actually had a pretty rough childhood
and I've kind of like talked about it a little bit
in some of my posts and maybe at some point
because it was just, it was so hard and heavy and complex
and bad in a lot of ways.
Are you in touch with your birth parents?
No, so I was raised by my mom and she passed away when I was 19.
Right, okay.
Which then led to like the eating disorder and me getting really sick and just kind of
all the chaos that happened after.
Did you feel like the eating disorder was your way of like having control of something?
Oh, a thousand percent.
Yeah.
A thousand, which is often what it is.
I think even when we start to control whether we're like, oh, today I'm going to skip breakfast.
Maybe it's not so much about our body image
and more about what's going on in our lives,
what we're feeling, our emotional state, all that stuff.
And they say with eating disorders,
it's so rarely about just the food
and it's more about control.
And so for me, that's a thousand percent what it was.
You know, I was, my mom was like my rock.
We were very close.
She was a young mom.
She had me at 19.
So we were very, very close.
And to lose her was a huge thing in my life.
And my like first boyfriend at the time,
who was like my first love, you know,
and like first loves are so strong, aren't they?
They're like world changing. is like my first love. Yeah. And like first loves are so strong, aren't they? Oh, I mean they really are.
They're like world changing.
It's the worst heartbreak I think you've experienced.
The worst heartbreak, yeah.
The worst, and he ended our relationship
on the day my mom died.
Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Oh, my.
Which let me tell you, no.
That gave it goosebumps there when you said that.
How awful.
Didn't even do it himself.
He had one of his best friends call
because I, I'm such, especially then,
I was such a private person.
I hadn't really told like very many people
about my mom dying.
I just, it was so private and so big.
And so I like told him, obviously,
he then took the liberty to tell someone else,
one of his good friends who then called me and was like,
hey, so-and-so just wanted to say,
he's sorry to hear about your mom and wants to know if he can send a card.
So anyways, it was just a bad time in my life.
Did you time to shove his card up his ass?
Yeah, I should have done, right?
I should have done.
So you asked, you know, it was like baby Denae and the tough childhood, leading to kind of a self-love Denae.
But maybe I'm sure it fed into it
because I think my upbringing has made me so very grateful
for the family I have now,
the life I'm able to provide for my daughter,
you know, what we're surrounded with,
like this big, loud, crazy Italian,
you know, close-knit cousins uncle's hearts everyone so it didn't necessarily
shape more of a self-loving Danae but it made a very grateful Danae yeah
so you are so eloquent when you talk and mesmerize when you're speaking with me and you just said something about this big Italian family now
obviously you are married to the Italian,
which is what you call him on Instagram, isn't it?
I always forget what his real name is
because you call him that on Instagram
and then that's how I refer to him.
I like it though.
I like it too.
I like it when people have these like aloof names
for their partners.
Who's nicknames?
Yeah.
So you've kind of been thrown into this world
of an Italian family
because he's very close
to his family.
Oh, very close.
Yeah, they live in the flat upstairs.
And very close.
Wow, really close.
I'm not sure how close I would want my in-law living to me.
Love it a bit, but you know, how was that?
Was it an interesting thing to navigate?
Oh, it's, you know, it's still interesting, yes,
but it's, I mean, look, first and foremost,
it is beautiful.
And like, I remember even as a little kid,
because we moved a lot, like we were always kind of swapping
in and out father figures, like I did not have stability.
And I remember if I ever went to friends' houses,
I was so fascinated.
I was like, wait, you sit down for dinner and you eat dinner together.
Like someone cooks your dinner and you sit down at the table and you eat it together.
Like tell me about that.
Wow.
Did you never have that?
No.
Where would your mum be then when you were when it was like, she worked a lot, right,
often working.
And so we would have like cereal for dinner or, you know, it's just different life. Yeah yeah. And so I was so fascinated by it and so I think
having this big family has always been a dream of mine and I remember like you
know being one when you're 17, 18 and people are like oh what do you envision
for your future? I was like oh I would I would love to marry into a big family. Oh, you manifested it.
I manifested it, yeah, I knew I manifested it.
Yes, the new year is coming, this power of manifestation.
So it's been, it's really beautiful.
And it's, I like, I love it.
I think I'm more obsessed with my husband's family
than he is.
Oh, well that's nice, that's lovely.
That's what you want, isn't it?
You know, and I'm lucky too,
because my mother-in-law,
like you hear all these horror stories
about mother-in-laws, especially Italian mamas,
Italian mamas and their sons.
They can be quite forceful, can't they?
And I thought, you know, when I first met her,
I thought we were off to a really bad start.
Oh, why?
Because, because,
because my husband hadn't necessarily,
this was like when we were dating
and he hadn't mentioned necessarily
that they were in the flat upstairs.
But then I saw their surname on,
they were like ringers, doorbells.
Yeah.
So I was already like, wait a second,
I think his mom and dad live upstairs.
Oh my God, but you didn't know.
I didn't necessarily know.
He didn't tell you.
This is like early days, early dating days.
But we're out, we have a terrace,
and we're out on the terrace,
and we're like making out, you know,
getting all fiery, like big making out session.
And I kind of glimpsed something in my corner of my eye.
Oh no, oh no.
And I look up, and the structure of their terrace
actually looks down onto part of our terrace.
And so I look up, and I just see this like,
you know, very elegant older Italian woman
who would just like was looking down at us.
She's like, not watching, not watching.
I think she just like kind of glimpsed us.
And then she looked away really fast.
And I was like, wait,
and I pulled away from Nico, my husband.
I was like, I think I just saw your mom.
Was that your mom?
And he was, he's well, yes.
Well, that's one way to introduce yourself.
There we go.
But I've been really lucky.
I mean, she's so kind and supportive and I'm very lucky,
especially I think Italy can often be,
the culture is very different,
the communities are different
and they've just been incredible. very, the culture is very different, the communities are different. And they've just been, they've been incredible.
What are the, the culture differences that you've, you've struggled with that you found
hard?
Oh my goodness.
I remember you once telling me about the eating, the times.
They eat late.
Yeah.
Oh, they eat late.
Like if I have tried to introduce this to my husband, the earlier eating, because here
you guys,
the UK is like six PM, it's now.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, huh.
Italy, that would be considered like a Peritivo time.
So-
What's if it wasn't a Peritivo again?
Where you have like a drinks
and some little like a tiny little nibble.
Yeah, a little nibble like some olives
or some little crackers or something.
Right.
So they eat probably at, I don't know,
eight 30 would be a good dinner time.
That's when I'm winding down to go to bed.
I am in bed these days.
Yeah, I'm probably in bed.
I mean, you wouldn't make it in here.
I'm probably in bed.
I'm in bed.
I've definitely had a bath by that point.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
I'm in my pajamas.
Make-ups on.
Oh, God, no.
Yeah, make-ups definitely.
No wear the bras on.
I'm ready.
I'm ready for bed.
So that's definitely, like, it's just an kind of existing later culture that's definitely been a big transition
Do you get up later though?
They do things open like things shops would open at 10 a.m
Right things you wouldn't maybe every now and then like a little corner cafe would be open earlier
But it's not like like here places are open what 7? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's not like that, places are open what, seven? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, it's not like that.
Right.
So that's been a bit of a transition, but.
And have you transitioned to the later eating?
No.
Or has he transitioned to early?
Or have you met in the middle?
We kind of met in the middle.
Yeah, it's different with a kid as well.
So do children eat later as well?
A lot of them do, but ours, you know, she wakes up early.
She wakes up with me.
So I've got the excuse. I'm like baby needs to eat it
Yeah, she's ready. She's hungry. She's hungry. Like look at her little face. She's hungry. It's baby
It's not me. It's not me. Yeah
And how do you share your self-love with her? Do you have any things that you do with her that?
Mmm, I going to set her up for life?
Oh gosh, well I mean I hope there are things
that help make her journey easier.
Because I mean if you look at some of the stats these days
when it relates to little girls and their body image,
it's really upsetting and horrific
and they're three years old,
they're already aware of their appearance
and comparing it by six.
Three?
Yeah, by six, 80% of six year old girls
think they need to go on a diet in the UK.
Six!
Do you know that is absolutely disgusting, isn't it?
So it starts really young, really, really, really young
for little girls these days.
So I think there are things I'm trying to do.
You know, I never comment on another woman's body. I never comment negatively on my own.
I try to tell her all the things she is apart from being pretty. I tell her, you are strong,
you are clever, you are fun, you are energetic, all the other things that she is apart from
her appearance. Of course, if she puts on a dress and you can tell she feels sparkly
and pretty. She's spinning in little circles. you know, she's quite like at the moment,
she's quite kind of a girly girl. Of course I go, oh, you're so pretty, you're so sparkly,
this and that, but that is not all she is.
No, exactly. Because I think that's it. They do need to hear that they're pretty because
they are. They're gorgeous. I always say to Cooper, oh, you are so handsome. But there needs to be more. There needs to be more than just their looks, right?
Exactly. Exactly. And also, you know, I comment strongly about my own body.
So like, oh, you know, mommy's putting on makeup because I want to feel sparkly.
I want to, you know, I like this, but I don't have to.
Or like, oh, you know, our legs are great. They're so strong.
So I'm just trying to create this a positive base.
Yeah, I hope I hope it helps.
I think it's it's complex.
Well, like, I always feel like each generation, we learn more and we grow more
because I feel like that our parents generation, they all put themselves down
so much and it's only
when you really really delve into it that you realize they do it like I I've
done a lot of work in therapy and when I was talking to a therapist and she was
like did your mom put herself down a lot and I was like no I don't think so
anyway then the next week I was with my mom and I was like wow she really really
doesn't think she's beautiful or good at anything or I'm like my mom and I was like wow she really really doesn't think she's beautiful or
good at anything or I'm like that's where I get it from. Yeah. My self-doubt is learned. Oh it's a
thousand percent. Yeah and you don't realize how easy it is for children to pick up on these things
and they are clever. They're little sponges.
Oh, kids are so smart.
I always say this, I'm like, and they're always listening.
Oh my God.
Always listening.
I'm like, there are things my baby does.
I'm like, how did she learn to do that?
The other day, I don't know,
we were like playing in bath or something
and we're telling a story and I was like,
oh, you know, and that's scary.
And then she turns to me and she starts making like and she starts making like dino dragon arms going scary. I'm like, where did you, I've
never done that. Like, where did you learn this? But they're just little sponges that
you, they're just, which is beautiful.
It is lovely to watch, but that's where you've got to be careful.
Oh, a thousand percent. Especially, you know, I think as women, so many of us, our generation,
we were taught to kind of apologize for everything we are.
We were taught to shrink ourselves,
to be polite, to be sweet, to be pretty.
Yeah.
That is not, those aren't the lessons
I wanna teach my daughter.
No.
And also we were taught not to speak good of ourselves,
really. No, yeah.
Like, God forbid you said,
oh, I look really pretty today.
Oh, I look, I really like the way I'm looking today.
I think I look gorgeous.
Really like my outfit.
My makeup's looking fabulous.
We're not allowed to talk about ourselves like that.
We can compliment other people,
but we're taught to put down ourselves
because we look arrogant if we think we look fabulous.
Which is so silly because it's incredible when women achieve things, when they look
fabulous, when they work hard.
We should, in the same way men can do it, we should be able to hype ourselves up.
Totally.
Men do it all the time in the gym.
Okay.
They're grunting and strutting around like they've got two bowling balls under their
arms. and they do
it all the time. We should be allowed to do that. We should be feeling ourselves all the
time.
I like that. That is a good message to send out.
Thank you.
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One question I wanted to touch on was, so you were editor in chief where you fought,
was it Winners Health magazine?
Middle East, yeah.
In the Middle East?
Yeah, yeah.
Did that come with its problems?
Because obviously, you know, magazines are known for like editing images and all sorts.
How did you deal with that if you would kind of be an advocate for the whole body, you
know, self-love and body positivity?
Well, I would say, first off, I'm, self-love and body positivity.
Well, I would say, first off,
I'm so thankful that I worked with them.
I mean, it's an incredible company globally.
My work with, I was the editor of,
editor-in-chief of Women's Health Middle East
and Men's Health Middle East,
and that sort of preceded my space online.
And I think it planted the seed for a lot of the stuff
that I wanted to talk about.
For instance, how, if you pose, the power of posing, the power of lighting, the power of
shooting at sunrise versus the middle of the day.
Middle of the day is going to show your cellulite, which over 80% of us have, so it's okay.
But if you know you're shooting at sunrise, that's so soft on your body, it will hide
it.
Yeah, golden hour.
This golden hour. This golden hour, exactly, exactly, exactly.
It wasn't that I felt trapped or unable to speak.
I think I was learning as I was there,
and I was learning, okay, there are things that
I think the general population doesn't know about,
doesn't understand, I wanna talk about these things.
And I do think women's health in particular,
they were one of the real leaders in the magazine space
for stepping away from body editing and drastic Photoshop.
And if you notice, even the headlines on their magazines,
they've changed a lot of the language.
So it's not drop 10 pounds on your thighs today.
They don't do that.
Do they not?
They don't do that anymore?
No, no. If you look at the magazines pounds on your thighs today. They don't do that. It's- No, no, no, no, no.
So if you look at the magazines,
like the communication has changed.
And I think it's much more,
it's a place where if you do have health goals,
you know, you can be supported,
but it's not ripping women down or belittling them
for how they show up.
So I think it's great.
I like them.
Did you see a difference between the,
obviously, because you did both men and women.
Did you see a difference between those magazines of like you did both men and women, did you see a difference between those magazines
of like the way?
Oh, of course.
Really?
I mean, I think the language you use for men,
it's very different, right?
It shouldn't be that way,
but the men have kind of a different mindset usually
and different goals.
And I don't know, I would never,
I never said this with women's health.
Let me just throw that out there. But like, say, I don't know, say you never, I never said this with women's health, let me just throw that out there,
but like say, I don't know,
say you're a product trying to advertise to men,
you never see men's products being like,
oh, get your perky peach and slim down your thighs.
Whereas we wouldn't like fat lashes
if they did that for women.
It's so true though, isn't it?
And when you finished working for that,
for the magazine,
did you change all kind of how you spoke to the public?
Did you ever feel like you were, what's the word,
muted a little bit?
Because you had to be careful about how you spoke
at being the editor-in-chief.
Well, so while I was at the magazines,
I didn't do loads with social media.
Because partially, you absolutely
do represent the brand.
And I think it comes with, any time you're
in a position that kind of high profile at that level,
like you are, you're an extension of the brand.
Like companies would look at me and they don't see Denae,
they see the magazine.
And I was very aware of that.
And it's an honor,
but also a huge responsibility.
Yeah, of course.
But my social media, like I had done some posts,
I think in myself, I always felt a huge pressure
to show up very perfect online, very curated, very-
And did you use to?
Did you use to?
Yeah, oh, a thousand percent.
Yeah.
A thousand percent, yeah, and I definitely,
it's part of what informed my early self-love post is I got
to a point where I was like, well, wait, wait a second.
I'm not, I'm not this girl.
I'm not.
What clicked?
What changed for you to think that though?
It was this kind of gradual filtering in of just thoughts, the realization that I wasn't
feeling like myself online, I wasn't being who I am
because I felt like I needed to be a certain person.
I had to have the perfect body, the perfect life,
the perfect shot, the perfect backdrop, the perfect,
what we see, what we saw on Instagram.
And I was like, oh, well, that's what I have to do.
Especially I think being in Dubai,
where everyone,
it is very image conscious place,
everyone shows up very beautifully.
I was like, oh, this is what I, to exist,
this is what I have to do.
And by the time it was April 2019,
I did my first self-love post.
I had already resigned from the magazines.
I was just freelancing, so I was my own boss.
And at this point I was like, okay, well, I want to show who I am.
And for me, that isn't just having a flat tummy
and whatever hourglass curves.
I also have cellulite.
I have cellulite on my bums and hips.
And I have been ashamed of that since I was, what, 13 years old.
And so I decided to do a post with two images side by side,
one showing my cellulite, one very posed and curated.
And I remember I was so nervous when I posted it.
I was messaging my best friend.
I'm like, oh, should I do this?
Should I do this?
What's going to happen?
And I posted it.
And right away, for the first time ever,
I had other women saying to me, Oh you have that I have that too
Yeah, oh, I'm not alone
I think it makes makes people realize because you do see all these photos and you have no idea like I'm sat down right now
If I didn't have these trousers on and somebody took a photo of my legs my cellulite would be rife
But you don't see me see that and. And a lot of people would go,
well, just take a picture from here up
so you can't see my cellulite.
Or if you get the photo and you look and you're like,
oh God, you can see my cellulite, you don't post it.
It's normal.
Like we wanna show our highlights,
quote unquote, highlights to the world.
So that's a normal human instinct with social media.
The danger is when we, the consumer,
when we are
seeing a thousand different people's thousand highlights, and we think we start to drink
it in and we start to think that is their life, that is the truth.
Why doesn't my body look like that?
Why isn't my house so clean?
Why don't I have a beautifully organized makeup cupboard and a spotless toddler and
a husband bringing me a thousand roses every day?
Yes.
And all these beautiful home-cooked meals that I've prepared throughout the day while
looking after three children and working a full-time job.
Exactly.
While I wear my luxury gown and make my organic.
My husband delivers an Hermes bag to my birth room,
which I saw the other day.
It was like a really big account.
And they were like, oh, my wife has just given birth
to our beautiful daughter.
I've got her her birth gift.
And it was like a $30,000 Hermes bag.
Oh, wow.
Wow.
She must have pushed really hard.
I mean, she must have pushed really hard.
To be fair, I mean, birth is pretty complex.
To be honest, we should all be gifted houses, I think, after we've given birth.
Exactly.
I'll take one.
Yes, please.
I'm allowed a house, a holiday, a car, everything.
I think I got a really good cup of tea.
That toast after you've had a baby is the best, isn't it?
Any food after.
Any food.
But to be fair, I spent, because in Italy you're allowed to like eat during labor.
I don't know the rules here. Oh, are you?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know.
It's hard to say I wanted to eat during labor.
I was like, handfuls of Reese's Pieces. Were you?
God, yeah. I had this whole bag, handfuls of them.
I think I felt a bit sick. I think I was...
To be honest, I had just had a big, big plate of fish and chips.
Just before my water's broke
Okay, okay
Which in hindsight was a really good idea because I was being induced the next day and then my water's broke
I was like, oh god, I've got a really really full stomach. You're gonna full tummy
But they say you do you need the energy right? That was my plan. That was your plan. Yeah
My other plan was to go and shave my legs and wash my hair
But there was no but there was no time.
Do you know, I think by the time you're done and you're kind of wearing that little
dipey and like, but you also have the most beautiful little present in your arms or next
to your bed, like none of that matters.
When you had your little one, how did you feel?
Did you have the instant love?
Oh God, yeah.
You did, you did.
I remember, so my very first pregnancy,
which ended in a miscarriage,
it was so fascinating to me,
because as soon as I found out I was pregnant,
as soon as that happened,
it was this instant mind shift,
this instant adoration of what my body could do,
this instant love for this tiny little thing inside me. And that's, for me, that's always been the case
with all my pregnancies.
It's this kind of, oh my gosh, this is wonderful.
I can't wait to meet you.
And yeah, the, you know, that tiny little,
teeny tiny baby Aurora, like having her there,
having her in my arms, it's just, you know, it is-
It's a miracle.
It is, yeah.
And I think as a parent, it's always so bittersweet and beautiful
to see your child grow because you mourn for,
Yeah.
For what they were,
but also like every stage in a way
is so glorious and beautiful.
Yeah, it is, isn't it?
It is, yeah.
It's funny, it is a really mixed immersion
watching your child grow.
Oh, yeah.
I just don't want Cooper to get to the age
where he doesn't want to cuddle me anymore.
That's what I'm not looking forward to. I think little girls are different though.
I think little girls always love a cuddle. I don't know though. I remember being a teen
and you get those big feelings. Yeah well yeah when you become a teenage girl like we have
big hormones so I don't know I'm really loving the cuddles right now. They're good aren't they? So I'm like little baby cuddle.
Oh my god.
And you had a bit of a tough journey to get pregnant this time, didn't you? Just tell me
a little bit about that because I don't think I know the complete ins and outs.
Yeah, sure. So my first pregnancy, which just happened, you know, very organically,
ended in a miscarriage.
How many weeks were you?
I was seven and a half, but I found out at eight and a half.
It was a miscarriage, which I didn't even know those existed.
And I remember going into the doctor, I was feeling nauseous, I was feeling very pregnant
because I get really bad first trimester symptoms.
And I just remembered the complete shock of him saying,
oh, well, unfortunately, it's not viable,
it's not alive anymore.
So you had no idea.
No idea, no idea.
And I remember just being like,
are you sure, because I feel this way.
And you just got him for a routine checkup?
Yeah, just like a checkup, yeah.
Just like a little checkup.
Oh, gosh, oh, God.
So that, I think, was really shocking.
And then after that, we did some fertility tests.
We just wanted to kind of understand
what was happening in my body.
And some of my hormone numbers were pretty low.
My egg reserve is pretty low, especially for my, you know,
I was 35, 36 at the time.
So kind of the numbers were concerning.
My doctor suggested we do IUI,
which is, it's like a precursor to IVF.
Oh, okay, right.
So it's kind of what you would do prior.
Yeah, it's like step one.
So you do sort of hormone shots
to help make everything healthier and stronger.
And then you do a trigger shot
and you have some spicy time on a very specific day.
Spicy time, yeah.
When it sells you to on the app.
Which makes it a little less spicy.
No, no, no, they controlled all that.
They're doing blood tests and stuff.
So it's like a very, so we had gotten the medicine for it.
We had prepared everything.
We had to get numbers under a level.
So we were in a process of that.
And then we were meant to start in like a month's time.
And it was in that month that I conceived naturally
with Out Order.
Right.
Do you think it's cause you were
almost not thinking about it?
I think it was.
I think for me, it probably was.
But also, you know, I was doing all the things
that you're supposed to do to like make your body as healthy and relaxed as it could
be. The best home. The best home yeah because we were leading up to this IUI
so it's I think it was a lot of factors yeah but then after her you know again
we had started trying that we weren't successful we were trying trying trying
we started thinking about oh should we do IUI should we were trying, trying, trying. We started thinking about, oh, should we do IUI?
Should we go down that route?
I conceived in December last year
and then had a chemical pregnancy.
And what's that?
So that's when it's below four, six weeks when you lose it.
So I think I lost it like five and a half,
which again, it was so complex
because it was still early days.
So physically, it was much gentler
than the first loss for me physically.
Like the first loss physically was a lot harder,
but it's still mentally, you know,
you envision yourself a mom,
you love this little baby and then it's gone.
And you connect to it kind of instantly.
As soon as you know you're pregnant,
you kind of, something shifts, doesn't it, inside you? Absolutely. inside you and you go okay I'm a mom now, that is there.
Exactly, exactly and I knew I wanted two babies so I was so excited it was a very
wanted pregnancy so after that loss we were told to wait two more months before
we try it again. That's hard as well isn't it? You're desperate, you know,
and as much as you shouldn't put pressure on yourself
because of time, you do, and you go,
you know, my biological clock's ticking,
and then they go, you've got to wait two months.
You've got to wait, yeah, and you're like, no,
and looking back, I'm like, two months is nothing.
But at the time, when all you want
is to feel that little baby, you know, two months feels like a lifetime.
It does, doesn't it?
It feels so, so we waited.
And again, we were trying to decide what's right for us.
We started trying, we weren't successful.
And we were in Bali.
And I, like, my husband and I had actually opened up
the conversation about, well, if we're gonna do IUI,
do we wanna look at maybe even IVF?
Because I don't think I could handle, I mean, touch wood,
but another miscarriage again would be so hard on me
mentally.
IVF, you have a chance of a healthier egg.
And it's like, OK.
So we sort of started to talk about, OK, when we get back
in Italy, we're going to do IVF.
Yeah, so you'd made a plan.
We had made a plan.
We had made a plan, and that was our goal, our plan.
And then anyways, I found out I was pregnant.
So it was a similar situation again.
Similar situation, yeah.
You kind of almost like, you knew what you were doing.
You were in control.
Yeah.
So you were ready and then it just happened naturally.
It just happened, yeah.
So we've been lucky.
Oh, I love that you say we've been lucky.
Cause you know, a lot of people would listen to your story and go oh that must be terrible for her
But you've seen it as a positive and you've gone look I have had miscarriages, but look I'm lucky
I've got a healthy little girl. I've got another another one on the way, so that's amazing congratulations
Thank you
And we are nearly at the end of our conversation. But before we finish, if there are any women out there, or men, that are kind of going through that self-doubt, body hating, what bit of advice would you give them to help and make them love themselves. Well, first off, don't feel ashamed of what you're feeling.
I think it's so normal as women, especially modern women.
We're like, oh, well, I shouldn't be feeling this way.
I shouldn't have these, I don't know,
difficult thoughts about my body.
Or, I don't know, being a new parent can often be hard.
I shouldn't have these feelings.
No, you feel what you feel, and that's OK.
That's a valid emotion, whether it's
anger or grief or frustration, whatever you're dealing with.
So allow a space for that feeling.
But at the same time, allow yourself room
to question it, to challenge it, to explore it.
So if you wake up and you look in the mirror and you think,
oh my god, I am a disgusting, horrible, terrible, my body is
ugh, yuck, blah, blah, blah,
all these horrible things.
Okay, I'm not gonna shame you for what you're feeling,
but why do you feel that way?
What is happening?
Did you go to bed and you felt good about yourself?
You woke up, you felt different?
Like what has changed?
Like are there things you can do?
Can you go for a walk?
Can you lean into a sport that makes you feel confident
and good about yourself?
What kind of loving actions can you do
to help navigate that feeling?
Also question why you feel that pressure
to, I don't know, be a size two or a size four.
Where does this come from?
So just explore that a bit.
Put in the work a little bit to see why you feel that way.
On being gentle with yourself. As opposed to, feel that way. Well, I'm being gentle with yourself, you know, as opposed to,
oh, I'm disgusting, I'm horrible, I'm not going to eat today.
There's there's not love in that.
No, I'm discussing I'm horrible.
OK, wait a second.
These are thoughts I don't necessarily agree with, but I'm feeling them.
I'm going to go for a walk.
I'm going to do things that make me feel like the best version of myself.
I'm going to, you know, feel strong and empowered through these actions.
So I'd really encourage that.
A walk always helps.
Oh, I love a good walk.
Honestly, you're getting a bit of exercise.
You normally, normally apart from at the moment,
get a vitamin D.
You get a fresh air,
and I feel like you get time to think.
It's very difficult to walk for an hour on your phone
the entire time.
You can put your phone away and just be present.
Well, and I reckon, I think there's a lot of moms
who listen to the show.
Whether you're pregnant or you have a toddler,
it's something you can do with them.
And it just, the other day I went for a walk with my baby,
with my two-year-old almost, and there were leaves, you know,
and she was so excited by the leaves
and I was able to like sprinkle them on her head
and just see her little joy.
And my gosh, what an instant mood changer.
Oh my gosh, yeah.
But being present as well, being in the moment,
which we don't do enough, we're never living in the moment.
We're always preoccupied or busy with something else
whilst we're trying to, we're just an nation
of multitaskers and we need to just be in the moment
with our one task that we're doing sometimes, don't we?
Yeah, so go for a walk.
I saw there's lots of leaves right now
and it's a sunny day today,
so hopefully it is when you're listening.
I love it, when everyone's listening,
imagine if I'm driving along, I'm like,
they're listening to the podcast, they're kicking leaves.
Yeah, exactly.
They must be listening to what Denae said.
Yeah.
So all go kick some autumn leaves, please.
Right now, right this second.
But Denae, it's been so lovely having you on.
You are always a pleasure to speak to.
Thank you so much, Denae.
No, my pleasure.
That's a wrap on this episode of Mums the Word.
A huge thank you to Danai for joining us
and sharing her inspirational journey.
Stay tuned for more exciting episodes
where we'll continue diving into the realities of parenting.
Don't forget to leave us a review,
follow us on social at mumsoword.com and subscribe
to our brand new YouTube channel.
Remember to keep sending your own parenting stories because we cannot wait to hear them.
Until next time, I'm George Jones and this is Mums A Word and we'll be back with another
episode, same time, same place, next week.