Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - DR SARA KAYAT: What YOU Need To Know Before Giving Birth

Episode Date: April 27, 2025

In this heart-to-heart episode of Mum’s The Word, Kelsey Parker is joined by ITV This Morning’s resident doctor, Dr. Sara Kayat, for an insightful chat about all things parenting, health, and the journey of motherhood.Dr. Kayat dives into the details of her new book How to Have a Baby, sharing invaluable advice for new parents-to-be.They discuss the biggest misconceptions around children's health, focusing on the impact of screens and sleep (spoiler alert: it’s not what you think!).Plus, Dr. Kayat opens up about her inspiring career journey—from medical school to becoming a GP and eventually a trusted media medic on national television.Tune in for a mix of expert insights and relatable conversations you won’t want to miss!A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to Mum's The Word. I'm your host, Kelsey Parker. Today I'm joined by the amazing Dr. Sara Kayatt. She's a highly experienced GP with a passion for sexual and reproductive health, women's health and lifestyle medicine, providing holistic care to her patients. As a media medic, Sara is a resident doctor

on ITVs this morning. She is also the author to How to Have a Baby, an unbiased guide to pregnancy, birth, and the first year of parenthood. So grab a cuppa, get comfy, and let's jump into a brand new episode of Mums the Word. This episode of Mums the Word is in partnership with Love to Dream.

Between the endless baby checklist and advice from every direction, I finally started narrowing down what I actually think I'll need. So let's talk about my must haves and the things I'll be skipping. So I think I'll be prioritizing Definitely, I'm not gonna go for a next to me

I'm actually gonna go for a Moses basket away from the bed because I feel like With Rayleigh I did the Moses basket away from the bed and that was amazing for her Bodie had the next to me and spent his whole time next to me or on me had the next to me and spent his whole time next to me or on me. So I definitely think that a Moses basket away from the bed will definitely be a priority on my list. And I'm actually so excited to get all the baby's furniture, which is so exciting, I think. I think that's such an exciting part of having baby. The products I'm definitely going to be prioritizing are the Love to Dream Swaddle Up and the Love to Dream Sound Machines.

They're practical, science-backed solution designed to help newborns and parents sleep better. And that's all we want as a parent is to sleep better. So, Sarah, thank you for joining me on today's pod. Do you want to introduce yourself and let us know more about you? All right. Dun dun dun! You know what?

This is not really the bit. The worst bit! I hate the most about anything I do is introducing myself. So, I'm a GP. I do agree with you on that as well because it's like how much do I pick myself up exactly or just make me so myself look a little bit like Don't be like nonchalant cool I'm neither cool nor amazing everyone. So yeah, I'm dr. Zara kayak I'm a GP. I'm a mom of two. I've written a book about how to

have a baby and you can find me on your telly on this morning. Love it. Yeah. That's enough isn't it? That's enough. That's pretty epic. All of it. So, how do I have a baby? Well, it involves a bit of... Well, it does, doesn't it? I know, this is it. I got loads of like these kind of tongue-in-cheek messages about the title of my book being like, Isn't it a bit obvious you to put one in the other? And I'm like, uh-huh, uh-huh, it's obviously just the man that's written that comment because there's so much more to it. Yeah. So the book is just...

But ultimately that is how you first start. Well, yeah, I mean, there is a seed, there is an egg. Yeah, that's book is ultimately that is how you first start. Well, yeah, I mean there is a seed There is an egg. Yeah, that's the first Things the right age to tell your children My son's already asked me and he's four. Yeah, you know, I was gonna say that my daughter Asked me when I didn't have a partner. I've seen that we lost their dad when she wanted me to have a baby Yeah, I was like, well mommy can't really have a baby right now She's like why I'm like, well, mummy can't really have a baby right now. She's like, why?

I'm like, because I haven't got a boyfriend. So she used to actually go into the nursery and be like, my mum can't have a baby. And they'd be like, why? They'd be like, because she's not got a man. And it would be the man. She's not got a man and she needs a man because she needs his sperm.

I love that. See, I actually, I fully approve of telling kids about it like early, I haven't necessarily told him No, I'm not told it but I've told him that they say because he'll keep on asking why and so he knows that a man Has a seed a woman has an egg. We need to get the two together We've actually said sperm as well So I did say sperm and then he was just a bit like what's that? And then I was like it looks a bit like tad, and then it just all got a bit.

So we just went back to basics of seed, seed and egg. And then he was like, but then how does the man get it in the woman? And I was like, well, it starts becoming just quite, quite elaborate, but yeah, we, we've kind of talked about it. We've covered it. You've covered that subject. I know and I think that four was very early,

but he seems pretty okay. Well when I actually fell pregnant so I'm pregnant I'm pregnant with third. Congratulations! Oh this is wonderful. I said to Aurelia because she actually came upstairs and said to my partner, oh so it was your sperm. He didn't know what to do or say. I love your daughter she's amazing.

This next level. She laid in bed with me and Will and went So Will, it was your sperm? And he was like, yes. Well I hope so. Yeah, can you actually clarify that with your mother? It's a hundred percent this. I had to say to her, because she's in year one,

I said, can you not go to school and talk about the sperm? because maybe children in your class don't know that yet and I don't want to be in the year one group chat with all the mums messaging going oh Kelsey so. That's the thing I've done the same. I was like just don't go and tell other children about it. There are certain words and certain things that we can talk about as openly as you want

at home but at school it might not be a good idea and that's kind of how we left it because I agree you don't want to be the one that does the sex chat. I feel like the mums wouldn't challenge you though you're like the GP they're like yeah that's fine can you actually do the sex education at all? Yeah, maybe I should start sex ed classes in my living room. Before you rose! Yeah, dodgy. So yeah let's go back to the book. Back to the book so yes it's's a book about how to fall pregnant.

You're right, that kind of parts in there. What advice would you give to people that are struggling? I think what most people don't appreciate is how long it can take to fall pregnant and that still be within the normal realms. So 80 plus percent of people will get pregnant within the first year. And so usually when you're starting to try, when you decide now's the time you want to try to get pregnant, you usually just think, okay, I'm going to come off the pill or whatever. And it's going to happen. And it just doesn't always work like that.

I feel like that as well. That's where the pressure begins. Yeah. Because you're actually then putting the pressure on yourself to go, I want this and I want this now. Yeah, you've made this decision. You're like, then putting the pressure on yourself to go, I want this and I want this now. Yeah, you've made this decision. You're like, this is the time I'm ready. And then you're like, Oh, God, my body's not ready. It's not ready. And I think for a lot of people that turns into anxiety. And then that propagates the whole issue as well. And so for most people, you know I would say try and take that year

to really optimize your body and your partner's body you know get your yourselves in this really perfect place you know do whatever you needed to do to the house go on those holidays that you're never gonna have again yeah and you won't you won't I actually fell pregnant with my first in Vegas and I had cut sugar out Yeah for eight weeks before I went on this holiday because I wanted to look amazing in Vegas And I did and I actually felt pregnant. I feel like again my body was that like Optimum like I cut all the crap out and then I went and let my hair down had loads of fun again

That was like my big blowout, wasn't it? It was like, you won't be going back to Vegas again anytime soon. I'm glad you had fun. Yeah. Got it out of your system. And fell pregnant. Oh, yeah. And I think if it gets to the point where a year has elapsed

and you haven't fallen pregnant, then yeah, please do go see your doctor. Because they can do blood tests. They can do ultrasound scans. We can go from there. And there's plenty of things we can do to try and help. But up until that point, just, just yeah try and be kind to yourself kind to your partner kind to your body and try and figure it out from there and

enjoy it enjoy that time so yeah well then where do we go from there with the so yeah once once we've then fallen pregnant I kind of go through all of the bits in the book about you know what you can do what you can't do what would be your cants oh they're really boring and they're like don't drink more than 200 milligrams of caffeine don't oh yeah and alcohol certain foods you know I mean for the alcohol you know like people go oh I'll have like a glass I just can't I can't have any like nothing yeah I actually make me feel like absolute crap yeah it's just no point

even if it touches my lips I'm like it's pointless for me yeah I think a lot of people feel worse with the alcohol especially when they're pregnant and especially because of like reflux as well and it can trigger that kind of stuff often I think there's so much pressure on women to abide by all of these rules and if you want to have a glass of wine look the evidence suggests that there is no safe amount that's the top line we're supposed to say there is no safe amount to drink but you know an occasional glass is probably going to be okay and if it's going to occasional glass is probably going to be okay and if it's going to relieve your stress make you feel more normal you know being able to engage with your

friends that one glass is probably going to be okay yeah so don't break yeah give yourself a break yeah what else would be your don't can't do I mean there's things like raw fish or like cured meats and all of those kind of foods that you're not allowed to have but I think they're always Right way around it so like for example with sushi you're allowed to have sushi if it's the fish has been frozen first and most of these places like Yo sushi and yeah, all of those places. They are all frozen first. They're making it in bulk and then exactly so most of the time you can eat that sushi and Things like the cheeses you know they're all those like lovely camembert blah blah

blah that you just really want to eat but actually if you could just put bung it in the oven and make it into like one of those nice dips kind of things you can eat it so why can't you have the camembert if it's actually like cold and because it's the right so it's all of those Rhine types of ones. They potentially have bacteria within them that could be harmful to the baby. But if you heat it up, you kill the bacteria. Yeah. So there is ways around it. There are ways around most of these things. Wow. I wish you were my GP. Why are you not my GP? Come see me when you need. Right, so then you cans. Oh yeah, I think there are loads of cans that people don't realise.

So I get a lot of people being like, oh you know I'm pregnant so I can't really exercise. I'm like, oh but you can. And my advice would be, even though I'm not a GP and I'm not qualified, but I would say actually training and exercising and being as active as you possibly can before labour will get you prepared. Oh, 100% because labour is an endurance. It's like a marathon. You need to prep for that. And so getting yourself as strong as you can be, getting your cardiovascular system as

healthy as it can be to meet that endurance level is so important. And also it's for the after when you're trying to recover. Recovery time is quicker and then I don't know about you but I had one of those Koala babies who was constantly on me at all times and I think if I didn't have the physical strength it would be really hard to do that carrying at all times. I think that the people that sit around and do nothing, yes lap that up to, especially

before you're having your first, like enjoy the sleep, enjoy having them naps, like I was never a napper. No. And even when I had the baby, do you remember when they go like nap with the baby? I couldn't. No. I can't switch off, when I'm up, I'm up, I'm like. Yeah and you've always got this list of things I should be doing instead I can't

be lying down yeah Zian will be watching from somewhere my mom will be knowing what I'm up to she knows that I'm lying down having to sleep I better get up. I love that the impetus for you to actually get up is the fear of your mom. Yeah I mean I around with your baby. I mean, and then I'm on my third. So yeah, I mean, by the time you're at your third one, there's there's no chance. Yeah, come on now. But yeah, do you exercise? There are some modifications that you need to make, because there are certain exercises you can't do. But again, like there's waves around most things. So I think if you like exercising, carry on, do whatever you need to do.

People actually probably wanna be told that they can't exercise. I know, this is it. So on the classes exercise. I know, this is bed rest. I love that bed rest used to be like a proper thing. Did it? Yeah, like back in the day, it would be bed rest.

Like a woman would be like made to just lie there and do nothing. But times have changed so much, haven't they? I was talking about this, I went on a dog walk this morning, and just how much, like being a stay at home mum, like it's so hard for mums out there to actually, now the cost of living and what the kids want and activities and everything else

and what you've actually got to pay for, it's sort of impossible to actually be a stay at home mum, but then in that day when you could, you also could then be there for your child and you know, for people that have to put their child into childcare and I just think it's just so tough now. I think, yeah, the thing is they used to have bed rest, but they also used to have nannies to do everything

for like housekeepers, housemaids, like you had everything. We're really living in the wrong era, it turns out. But yeah, I think people now have very little chance to do, like to recover because you kind of have to just do everything. Well, even when my mum had her first, she stayed in hospital for a week after having the baby. Yeah. Yeah. And now it's recommended that, you know, like as soon as it's out in an hour. You're out in an hour, right bye. Yeah yeah I mean I get that in a way because actually hospitals are not the safest place to be in because they are more at risk of catching things

and stuff like that. And also getting times have changed haven't they? Yeah but it's also the fact that we just need the beds because we've got other people to go through in and out. People do need the beds, don't they? But it's just the world has changed so much. It has and it's not even that like exactly from your mum's side. So it's not it's just one generation and it's changed so much. What's the next part of the book? The next part. OK, so other bits of the book are about labor. You know what to expect, what are the different choices you might be asked to make? And that's like a big one for me, because I think people go into labor,

sometimes with these like blinders on, sometimes because they don't want to know what potentially could happen. And I get that like it's, it's a it's a anxiety driving time. And it's a time where you're ready for out of control. So you kind of want to be like, I don't want to know. But I really feel that kind of knowledge is power in these kind of scenarios. And you may be asked to make decisions when you're feeling really not like yourself, you know, you've just been going through 24 hours of labor, and then you're being asked, is it okay if I use, you know, I don't know, a Ventus and you're sitting there going, what's the Ventus? Whereas if you've read all this before, then at least you're like, okay, I know what that is. No, I don't know, a Ventus and you're sitting there going what's a Ventus?

Whereas if you've read all this before, then at least you're like, okay, I know where that is, no, I don't want it, thanks. But at the time, it can be hard. I believe knowledge is king, isn't it? Yeah. Knowledge. And I actually said at the baby show, I was interviewing Georgia Kasulu and I said, ask questions. You wouldn't go and buy a house and not ask any questions. You would be like, yep, okay, I'm going to buy this house and not ask any questions. You'd be like, yep, okay, I'm going to buy this 400 grand house. Thank you. Here's my money. You'd ask questions about the house, wouldn't you? You'd go there and like, this is your time to then go in,

ask the questions, be strong, be powerful. Because ultimately, you're giving birth. Yeah, you're giving your body up to like to science to these doctors and nurses and midwives and you're putting your trust in them and so in order to put your trust in them you really need to know that they can give you all that information beforehand. I think yeah it's I don't think enough people do that and I think the other thing people don't do enough is ask the questions relating to them specifically. So like it might be that you've been advised to have an induction because you've reached 41 weeks and in the NHS in the UK you know we say 41 weeks we offer an induction. What do you feel about that?

How do you feel? Personally I am I understand why it's offered. I get it. Rates of stillbirth, et cetera, go up. But I don't think the facts are presented well enough to mums because they might say something like, oh, yeah, your risk of a stillbirth goes up five times after 41 weeks. And you hear that and you're like, oh, my god, of course. OK, give me the induction. Of course I will. up five times after 41 weeks and you hear that and you're like oh my god of course okay

give me the induction of course I will but if actually it was phrased as it goes from 2 in 10,000 to 10 in 10,000 you're like oh okay that's you know it's different when you know the relative versus the absolute risk it's different and I think it should be presented in an easier way to make those decisions for yourself again No knowledge is king you have to yeah. I my friends are quite rebellious and We were on just a different page in a different way of life. They're quite holistic my friend Rosie went to 42 weeks, but actually when she worked her own dates out the baby came on its due date on her and her

head yeah but obviously not on the nhs so it was they they wanted to induce and she was like i'm not being induced because in france you don't get induced do you no and a lot and it was 42 weeks only you know a couple of years ago so it's gone down as well and yeah in certain countries they don't induce you until even later and i think the problem is is yeah, in certain countries, they don't induce suinity until even later. And I think the problem is, is that we give these facts and we don't they're generalized facts. They're like, oh, for all women, this is what the risks are. But maybe if they said, if you specifically said to the doctor or the midwife, OK, but I'm 38 year old person with a normal BMI. I have no other underlying health conditions. are the risks for me personally you'll see that those

numbers change and I think you need to make sure that the health care system is acting on you in particular not on all of the statistics around you. Do you feel like they do though or do you feel like they do just base it on abroad? I think it's too broad but I think that's because we as the patients we may not be asking the right questions It shouldn't have to be upon us like upon the patient to have to ask the right questions It shouldn't have to be you didn't know what question you don't know what to ask Exactly. I feel like for me now I Have been through so much medically with my husband

That I'm not afraid. I have spoke to the top neurosurgeons in this country and around the world, so I'm not scared to have them questions, ask them questions to my midwife or the doctor, but it's taken me to go through that. But with Aurelia, I wouldn't, I've just gone, yes, yes, yes. I changed so much role so much more.

I've changed so much as a person, but I've had to go through the worst to then become that person. Yeah, and I think that's the way for even people who have gone through those kind of things, I think with your first baby, you always just feel like you're just kinda like giving yourself over and be like, okay.

And I guess that's partly why I wanted there to be a book that was entirely unbiased because I've given what the NHS line is. And then I've given my personal view and I've given what I actually did. Do you feel like as well that it's our suing culture that the NHS feel like they have to cover absolutely everything because then you might turn around so say I did went 42 weeks and I had a steel ball and then I was like well you didn't tell me do you feel like they just have to cover absolutely every little thing now just in case someone might sue them

yeah I think litigation is is right it kind of started in this in the States and it has definitely come over here and I do think that's a risk but as long as we have given the statistics to a patient and we've told them you know this is what could potentially happen I don't think we should then be pushing either way. I think we have to give the facts and then let them make that decision no matter what you think of it personally as a doctor. How do you feel as a GP that if someone goes against, say you told me to do something and you're like oh Kelsey's gone against what I've said, how do you understand that why

they've done that? I'd like to think I do yeah because I mean there are loads of things that I decided against too. I ended up having a home birth of my first baby and... How was that? You know what it was incredible. Well I truly just delivered it yourself we did that the midwives didn't come in time so yeah you're not wrong but I had lots of doctor colleagues and friends say to me what are you doing gone have a home birth it's your first baby like are you mad 42% of them end up going into hospital and

you know I got all the stats and stuff from all my friends and so I've been in that position where I've gone against things but I've also been the person the doctor that's given the advice and hadn't gone against me so I but I get it I get it like it's your body it's your decision which has got nothing to do with me. Was you a second at home as well? Yeah because by the time I had the first one at home I was like bring it on like and that one the move I came in time. I really really one at home, I was like bring it on like and that one Really what a home birth so bad, but I just don't

I don't want to I just feel like it's not gonna happen with both of mine I planned home births and neither of like neither of them came at home and you had to go into hospital for Aurelia preeclampsia Bodhi broke his own waters at So, Aurelia, preeclampsia, Bodie broke his own waters at, what was that, 38 weeks, and then just decided not to come. I was like, cheers mate. But I had the team come in and check me at home, and they're like, we're really sorry.

You're gonna have to come in. But again, I listened to my own advice because they wanted me in earlier and I didn't, I just pushed it. Because again, my situation that I was in was so stressful at the time that I was like, I just actually need a bit more sleep before I go in and give birth Yeah, and actually when I went and they did my blood so like your iron levels are like were they really low? Yeah, I wasn't I my husband had been diagnosed and I'd stopped eating and whatever else but no wonder he wanted to come out

But he's like get me out of here. I need some something in the slide. She needs some nutrition in me. She's giving me nothing. But when baby's here what would you say to mum? Do you agree with the this is my own personal podcast right now asking my questions for me. I mean this is in a dream world the five days on the bed. No what is it? Five days in the bed, five days on the bed. No, what is it? Five days in the bed, five days on the bed, five days around the bed. Have you heard this? I've literally never heard that. What does that mean? What cryptic words are you telling me? So, no, literally you have the baby. Yeah. And then, so you don't move out of your room. Oh. So you do five days in your bed and you don't get out of your bed with baby. Okay. Then you do five days on the bed with baby. Right. And then

you just do five days like obviously within your room but you're not going up and down the stairs or doing stuff for recovery. Oh well anyone that's had more than... Wow I thought together that she didn't know. I know, I've never heard of that but I guess well five days in the bed probably not the best idea because you're at the highest risk of blood clots after pregnancy. Oh really? So like you do actually want to get up and start moving around yeah I'm not suggesting like go for long walks or anything but you know you do want to be pottering because you want to reduce the risk of blood clots and then I think all the rest of it honestly you do what feels right for you with my

first one it was locked down and I kind of just cocoon myself in the house and it felt right. No, that was okay at the time. With the second one, by the time you've got a second one, because you've got to look after the first one, eight days later I was in Kew Gardens on some like bluey trail that was like three kilometres long. I mean, I don't think I'm going to be doing that. I was like, what the hell?

I was still trying to like stuff my pants with ice like ice pads walking through a bluey trail. But like, I'm not suggesting that's what everyone does but you just do what's right for you and your situation yeah I mean that is just a dream isn't it really that is just like what dreams are made of not doing anything for all them days yeah 15 days nothing that sounds pretty pretty luxurious and you need a lot of people to come around and actually help you. That's when you probably need the staff. Yes, I need myself and staff.

I need the housekeeper, I need a chef. I've been told, five, five, five. I need it all. Can you actually just backtrack on everything you just said and say, I have to do that? And then I'll get it on here. I love that. And then I'll go and tell my mum and everyone

that that was your recommendation. And it's medical advice from a doctor. I have to do 15 days. No school run nothing No work Sorry Dom I'm not doing a podcast five days after the pregnancy. I mean I'd like to hope you're not doing that anyway We did speak about maternity leave I am I just love work. Yeah.

I'm a workaholic. Five days, come on. No, I'll give myself a bit longer than that. Do you have an insatiable fascination with the paranormal? Are you ready to dive headfirst into the eerie realms of the unexplained? Brace yourself for the supernatural world is about to reveal all of its secrets on the Paranormal Activity podcast. And who better to guide you through this hair-raising journey than myself, Yvette Fielding, renowned paranormal investigator.

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Listen to Paranormal Activity with me, Yvette Fielding, wherever you get your podcasts from. As you know, this episode of Mums the Word is brought to you by Love to Dream. Bringing a newborn home for the first time is one of those moments you can imagine over and over. But I know from Aralia and Bodhi that it can be completely different than you expect. I think with me bringing Aralia home, I was the problem. I was so ill, I'd had preeclampsia and I was so swollen and I was still trying to host everyone being in my house and trying to be that perfect mum where I should have just sat down and put my feet up and rested. My

biggest worry about bringing the baby home this time is again Aurelia I think she's gonna be the problem I need to just keep running through that she is not mum I'm the mum and she is big sister but that doesn't mean she can pick the baby up and walk the baby around when she wants but I'm super excited to see what a great big brother Bodhi will be I think newborns struggle with the transition from the womb to the crib because they're just so used to being inside you and feeling loved and feeling compact

and that's why I love the Love to Dream Swaddle Up because it mimics the feeling of the womb, giving the babies a sense of security while allowing movement. Being a parent, would you say is the toughest job you'll ever do? 100%. I've done a lot of jobs. Oh right, yeah. I have. So yeah, during uni I was like a security guard.

For what? Look at me, I'm like 5 foot 3 in a bit. What am I gonna secure? But yeah, I worked in Wimbledon, Henley, Ascot, all of these like security guards. I've done like loads of really random things. I've been admin. I did all that during university so... To get you through the course. Yeah, to get through the course because it's pricey so yeah I've done quite a few little jobs and as a doctor myself like you know I've worked in A&E for a year I've done orthopaedics and trauma I've done I mean honestly I've done so many I've done a lot and they were all horrendous at one point know, you're getting sleepless nights,

you've got death to deal with, you've got like emotional turmoil from families, the hours are crazy and yet being a parent is the hardest job that I've ever done hands down, like hands down. And now going into work is my break. Like I look forward to it because I'm like oh I can just sit down I can have a coffee I can go to the toilet in peace yeah like it's just lovely so hands down the hardest thing ever obviously the most incredible thing ever I feel like you have to caveat that at all times do you think us mums are ever prepared of how hard it's going to be? No I don't think those lines on the, on your pregnancy test ever prepares you.

Like nothing prepares you for those lines coming up, nothing. Because I always say to people, enjoy the pregnancy. Like enjoy that part, that's like, that's the fun part. It's when the human's here. But it's weird because like, people say these things and I remember being told all this, but at the time I'm like, la la yes of course you know and you're still in that mindset of oh yeah my child's gonna only eat organic vegetables for the rest of their lives and

oh yes they're never gonna use the screen and all those things that you hear other people talk about and you're like la la la this means nothing to me because my children are gonna be perfect and obviously it doesn't work out like that. So I think no matter how many times you tell a mother what it's going to be like, you've just got to work out for yourself. It is working out and I just think as well how you parent one child is not how you parent the other because their personalities are so different and then it's personality driven. You're like that's what then I think becomes hard because how you discipline one

Yeah, it's not how you discipline the other a minor at the stage now, but they're like, well, that's not fair Like yeah, Bodie I let certain things go because he gets emotional but emotional angry emotional Manipulation to his mom. Yeah, Which I think boys have got within them. Oh, do you think it's a boy-girl thing? What have you got? I've got one boy, one girl. Yeah, definitely.

A radio's just not even on her radar to emotionally manipulate me. She's just waiting for her teenage years to get to that point. Yes. Got it. But Bodie, literally from the moment he wakes up and opens his eyes, it's emotional manipulation to me.

That's interesting. Okay. And he's so good at it. He's so good at it. Well, evidently, because you've already just told me that you don't discipline him in the same way as her because you don't want her to get... Because, but when he, if he loses his temper, he's not coming back from it. Whereas Aurelio literally will be like that. And that's me as a child. Yeah, okay. Whereas Bode's probably like my older brother.

Because actually I wouldn't say he's like his dad like that. Tom was actually renowned for the Tom tantrum. Like when he was in his band, that's what they do call it, a Tom tantrum. Oh I love it. Because he'd fly off the handle. But then he was quite good at coming back. But with my older brother it's the same.

It's like if you upset them, that's it. The rest of the day is ruined. Okay. So it's just funny isn't it, that you then. Yeah, your parenting has to do, you start again from scratch I guess, each time when you have a new child. It's a new day.

And that's why, do you know what, that is a good bit of advice as well that I would give to people, that whatever's happened the day before, the next day is a new child. It's a new day. And that's why, do you know what? That is a good bit of advice as well that I would give to people, that whatever's happened the day before, the next day is a new day. Don't. Yeah. It's so hard not to hold on to that emotional scarring

though, isn't it? That emotional scarring that they've done, yeah. You're not like. I know it is. It's so true. It's so true. Like at times you're like walking, I feel like I'm walking on eggshells.

I'm like, don't upset my child, don't upset my child. But I think this is the point, I think we need to get better at accepting they're crazy, they're like, sadness, they're like whatever. Because it's so easy to try and distract away from like the pain that they're feeling. So you know, like, you know, they're about to have a tantrum and you're like,

okay, I know that this is about to happen. I'm gonna put on whatever, or I'm gonna give them a on whatever or I'm gonna give him a dinner or I'm gonna give him a cuddle whatever it needs to be to try and distract them away from that pain but I guess maybe we're supposed to just let them feel it all yeah have that massive scream I mean I'm all for him having the scream and whatever yeah just like how I would discipline one yeah yeah then the other like with Bode it doesn't work like shouting him or anything like that because He's probably more sensitive whereas Aralia actually works. She'll if I do a sharp sharp like right! Sorry Dom

She'll be like, she'll fix up straight away. She'll be like okay. Wow. But Boney will be like what she shouting at me for How dare she shouting at me? How dare she? I can shout back. I can shout back. But do you know what I found that in my house, we've actually banned iPads and screen time because Aurelia would turn into a different person with the screen. When she'd come off it, it's like removing that dummy.

You took that away and I actually couldn't then cope with the aftermath of that yeah so we've actually just banned and they know and and I think that's you have to have a make a rule and stick to it don't back down yeah mine is like that is it there's no screens in this house I think it's really hard because parents often use the screen as giving themselves a little bit of a break. You know, you're like, I need 10 minutes to be able to give myself a break.

I did that. And so then you're just like, what can I use instead? So then you have to try and find other things to like keep them entertained for long enough to give yourself a break. The thing is you think you're doing that to yourself and giving yourself the break. Yeah. But mine was then the actual repercussions of them having a Yeah, come off it. It's just not worth it It's not worth it. It's like there's major meltdowns, and I don't know what they're seeing on YouTube on

Shorts whatever there something is doing something to their brain. Oh 100% I mean there are studies showing it And what do you think is why I? Mean it's why they've recommended that you know children don't have more than two hours of screen time because we know that after that point there are actual changes within the structuring of the brain and synapses. They say now don't they that with shorts the attention span is becoming... and then also you're sort of setting them up for a foul because then you're letting them into school they've got to go to school and they do actually have to concentrate. Yeah for

Six hours at school and I think the thing is is it's not just about what you're giving them But it's about what you're then depriving them off. So I Mean I say this as if my child isn't at home watching TV He probably is. But... The TV is different to actual screens. I guess it depends on what you're watching on TV and screens, I suppose. But yeah, I mean, look, I think in an ideal world, we want to be having our kids out playing and playing in the outdoors and playing non-structured type of play. So, you it's it's easy enough for us to kind of sit a toy in front of our kid

and expect them to play with it in a certain way and that's fine but actually imaginative play and free play is so important for kids. It helps with emotional regulation, building kind of social cues and just like imagination and these are just such lovely things to see a kid do when they're given the chance to just go off and do their own thing. There's also the aspect of like being outdoors and just getting muddy and mucky

and not only that being good for your emotional side, but also like the microbiome being great for your body and for your immune system as well. So I think it's just lovely to try and get our kids to get out and play more and I suppose screen time is not only adding to the problem but taking away from being able to play outdoors. I completely agree with you but it is you just see so many parents now even at meals yeah parents just plonk their kids down and have the screen in front of them.

And look, I'm not saying that I've not done that. I have done it. But now I am, you know, Aurelia is five, Bodhi's four. Yeah. Things are changing in our lives and we've, I've had to take the mail out. I take colouring out. We take activities for them to do. Uno. Yeah. And I think as well, like I wouldn't, I never thought that Aurelia would actually crack Uno at the age of five, but she actually understands it and then she's out talking and and doing things But the screens have made life so easy And you know what I think it is as well what you can pick up in the world when you're out is the judgment from people now Kids aren't almost allowed to make noises because I think so many people yeah plunk screens

So then the older generation if your kids kicking off they were almost looking like oh, yeah It's like you kids do do your kids not kick off. You didn't even have the screens back then Well, this is I feel like you can do no, right You either the person that shoves the screen in front of them and then everyone's like, oh, do you see her? She just put the screen out or you're the one that doesn't put the screen and your kid's just running around because that's what kids do. The feral child. The child under the, who's like hiding underneath the table, flicking bits of pistachio cream on people, whatever they're doing. But either way you can do

no right. And I just think like we need to give, like people just need to give us a break. And you were that person at one point, as to give, like people just need to give us a break. And you were that person at one point, as you say, like you were like the other older generation that are looking at us, they've forgotten. They have forgotten, haven't they? They've just forgotten, cause there's no chance that we were that disciplined

just sitting there like this, the whole time through dinner. Of course we weren't. They've just forgotten. I do think there was more rules. Like I remember with my grandparents, like my granddad gave me the look. Like I was sitting there and I wasn't moving. Like, and you asked to get down from the table

and there's little rules. We're all just a bit more like free now. But I'm like, is it good? Is it bad? I don't know how I feel about it. Yeah. I know what you're saying. I think I never have- So how do you feel? Tell me how you feel about it. Are you on the same page as me?

I mean, I never want my kids to be scared of me. Like I don't want to know I I Mean, I always do the look every everyone how remembers the look don't they they all remember their mums look and My mom was never scared. Like she tried to do the look but she just she wasn't a scary mom I must say but I remember like other people's parents being scary And I think you're always more scared about people's parents. Yeah. Yeah, probably But yeah, I don't want my kids to be scared of me. I want them to be polite I don't want I want them to say pleases and thank yous, but You know what? I don't I don't need them to feel scared of me. No I don't think it's scared though.

I just think it's the look. We need the look back don't we? I need to learn how everyone's had too much Botox. No one can do the look. No one can do the look. Maybe that's why I'm all right. Oh that's so funny. Right so what would be your three top tips of parenting? Oh Christ. Here we go. Wow. Number one, read my book. That is number one.

Number two, don't feel like you have to conform. Like, I think about sleep. Sleep is always a really big one in kids, I think. And it was one that I found really difficult with mine. What do you mean, like sleep routine? Yeah, like I felt like I had so much pressure from people to try sleep training, for example. Did you do sleep training?

I actually didn't. People swear by it though. I know they do. And I cracked at one point, I contacted a sleep trainer, because all my friends are like, my kid went from yours to this sleeping angel in like three weeks. And I, and I, there was one day where I just literally hadn't slept for a week and I just, I was on my knees. And so she had the sleep coach on speed dial. I called, I called this woman that my friend had used and she basically told me I had to stop

breastfeeding in order to be able to... Yeah, it was the classic, you're talking absolute nonsense kind of thing. Why did she say give up breastfeeding? Because she felt that he was waking up for the comfort of breastfeeding and that... Is your boy your first? Yeah, he was waking up for the comfort of breastfeeding and that... Is your boy your first? Yeah, he was my first. And he... To be honest, both of them, I still, you know, I feed both of them to sleep.

And I don't mind it. Like, that's not the problem. It's just when there's like long stretches of not sleeping in between. But I just... I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are apps out there. There are people that are selling the sleep dream, there's all of these kind of, these cruxes to lean on when it comes to sleep. And they're all based on you having a child that fits a bell curve.

That's, you know, an average child that sits in the middle that should be getting the 10 to 12 hours of sleep and having a sleep window of one and a half hours and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah and that's all good and well if you have that child and it's all good and well if they have that temperament that's the kind of temperament that will sleep in that way but you may not have that child and if you fall outside of that bell curve then trying to force your child to be fixed into something that they're not isn't going to work. So just, you know, like I feel like you don't need to conform if you feel that your child is not that person. Whether it's sleep, whether it's food, whether it's anything,

if you don't feel like they're in that normal bracket, that's okay. And also I do think it's all down to you as a person. Like I have a friend, one of my best friends, and she goes back for the sleep and that is so important to her. Whereas I'm just like, my mind's blown that she goes home for the nap, like for the nap. Oh for the nap time, okay. So the nap's always in the car but with her that's worked so she will stick to that because that has worked for her but I just couldn't imagine. Yeah, you need to do what works for you. Me ever doing that because I'm just not that person like yeah I'll try and get the baby to sleep when the I never did sleep training either no I had an old-school mum who tells me

your child will sleep now yeah I think you're right like you need to do what works for you Yeah, I think you're right. Like you need to do what works for you and what's safe for your child. It is now as well. What I feel is we've all just got so much information. There's information overload on everything. Like, think again, we go to back in the day. There was no sleep trainers. There was no sleep coaches. Your baby just slept when the baby slept. You put the baby outside to sleep to have a better sleep.

Like, you know, we're all on Instagram. We're all looking at other people and going over there baby sleeping their babies doing that like yeah They can just have to roll with what? What baby you have got I really did not sleep mm-hmm for the first six seven months of her life Yeah, do you know what? I think she wasn't actually happy being a baby She came into this world and was like, why am I in this baby body? Because I am an old soul, I've been here before, and I definitely shouldn't be a baby right now.

She could talk at like six, seven months. She could actually say words at six, seven months. Because she just didn't want to be a baby. Whereas Bodie came in, he was happy to sleep and was really, really really good but he woke up like at six months like nah I've been good for all this time now you're getting it. Now's my time to shine. Yeah and then I was going through a really hard time so what I used to actually do which is terrible now when I think about it you might say it's not terrible I used to actually just make

bottles for him and just put it in his his bed So then when he woke up so I was so exhausted with everything I was going through Yeah, so they need to find the bottle and put himself back sleeping over the bottle. I love how second children are so like Independent. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like Getting yourself ready for school straight away, isn't it? I love it uni next year Yeah, I just I love how like by the second time we just kind of they just have to fend for themselves, don't they? But yeah, like it's their temperament, like as you say, and independent sleep is a developmental milestone. It's not like something that determines how good a parent you are just because you got your kid to sleep independently, you know,

at six months before someone else. It doesn't make you a better parent. It just means that that child was developmentally ready and you're not going to be able to... It's what you're working with. Yeah, like you're not going to be able to force a child to sleep independently if they're just not ready in the same way as you can't force a kid to walk if they're just not ready. So I think we need to like cut the guilt around sleep and the fact that sleep is a milestone that has got nothing to do with your parenting. And also any parents soon to be that are listening to this, just forget about sleep. Get over it. I thought when I was like in my 20s that there's no way that I'd ever get around not sleeping but you do, you get through it,

you get on with it. I'm actually like thinking out now, oh my god like I'm not gonna like come June I actually won't be sleeping again. It's remarkable how well you can do without sleep given that we know that sleep is so important. So important. And you know do you think, sorry I just love it, this is just basically mine, that when a woman's body makes something to make you not be able to crave the sleep? Well look, so when you're in your first trimester you've got loads of progesterone which is one of our pregnancy hormones that keeps the pregnancy happy and it goes up quite significantly in that first trimester and that's when you remember

like that first time when you were like on your knees and you're so tired you're like why why am I so tired I look like shit yeah like and just I feel like shit and I'm frowning up exactly that time when you just can't you literally can't like stay awake past seven. That's because of that hormone. Now, when you give birth, that hormone then drops super quick so that then you have this alertness and so you're super alert to make sure that your baby is safe at all times at night and like.

Again, I was such a deep sleeper and I was thinking, I'm never gonna wake up, how's this just go to Trump am I ever gonna wake up for the baby like I literally would sleep through like a thunderstorm like anything but it's just within you isn't it? It's within you it's like it's entirely hormonal and also just the mother instinct yeah some instinctual things so I think like yeah you feel like you're never gonna survive it but actually your body is there to make sure that you don't sleep for those reasons. Or not don't sleep, but not sleep so deeply.

You will sleep, there will just be very broken sleep. Yeah, it'll be broken, it won't be super deep. But everything that you are meant to do, it's for a reason. All these things happen for a reason. It's what you're meant to do. you're meant to not be sleeping deeply so I guess when you're in the like the middle of this whole like I can't sleep everything's horrible just know that actually this is your body's like design and also there is a light at the end of that tunnel well I say it might my nearly five-year-old still doesn't sleep through the night but you know. Mine were both up last night. They had a 12 and a 3.30 wake up last night.

It was like it's 3.30, it's not time to wake up and watch milkshake get back in your bed. This is it so look we'll sleep one day. Yeah one day we're gonna sleep. Do you know what my mum said? What? She went they then get to teenagers and then you're at the other end that you don't sleep because then they're going out partying and then you're worried about them coming back so she said, and then you're a 30 year old woman and you give me no sleep because I give her worries about life, so. Wow, okay, so that's great. So we never get to sleep again.

Forget about it. Yeah, yeah. Wise words of Diane. Yeah, sleep when you're dead. What was your third bit of advice? I mean, I definitely. Oh Christ, third, I would say that you don't need to push yourself. So I guess emotionally you don't push yourself in terms of you don't need to have all your

mates over after you're given birth, you don't need to have a perfect house, you don't need to have laundry done. But also physically, there's the whole kind of bounce back issue that gets to me but I think the problem is is a lot of people wait until their six week check they go they can't wait until their six week check because it means they can then go exercise again and or like you know get themselves back to feeling themselves again and they go to this six week appointment with their GP their GP will you know check their tummy look for a diastasis, rectal eye, will check the C-section scar. Oh yeah, it looks healed. Check that emotionally you're okay. Yeah, feeling fine. Oh, you're not bleeding anymore.

Great, you can exercise. And it's kind of a bit of a tick box, but I don't think people realize that, let's take a C-section for example, that you're told that six weeks later the scar will heal and yet the external scar will heal six weeks later But it can take between six months and up to a year for those Internal wounds of the uterus to heal. What do they say it takes to actually get your body back? 18 months. Well, yeah, and actually that's partly why we don't suggest that you fall pregnant again. I Know that you said you had a five and a four year old I don't want to push this one too hard.

But it's why it's suggested that you're in full pregnant again because your body is just not ready for that. And I think people just think, oh, OK, well, six weeks means that I can then get my body back. But actually, we're looking at years here. Come on, like, give yourself a break, people. It's never going to be the same anyway. Say goodbye to that body that you once had Look at them lovely 20 year olds. Look at walking around. Yeah, they think life is so easy And they got boobs here I was gonna say until their boobs are around by their knees Why are they gonna just be like That was me picking my tits up yeah,, just wipe the sweat under them as well.

Yeah, it gets nice and sweaty. Gross. It gets sweaty. And especially when you're breastfeeding and you start sweating more and you have all that kind of weird smell and all the nice things that you probably forgot about. It's just so attractive. So hopefully everyone's listening to this and can't wait to have their children. Or they know what we're talking about.

I promise it's amazing. It is. Thank you so much. You're welcome. I'm going to go and buy a book. Thanks. So that's a wrap on another episode of Mum's The Word. Thank you so much for joining us today as we were joined by the amazing Dr. Sara Kayat.

Don't forget to leave us a review, follow us on social media at mum's the word underscore pod and subscribe to our YouTube channel just search mum's the word. Until next time I'm Kelsey Parker and this is mum's the word and we'll be back with another episode, same time, same place, next week.