Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - 'I Just Wanted To Be A Young Mum Who Cares What People Say?' | Phoebe Tomlinson & Kelsey Parker on Trolls, Grief & Raising Olive

Episode Date: June 7, 2026

This week Kelsey Parker sits down with Phoebe Tomlinson for an honest, funny and emotional chat about motherhood, grief and growing up in the public eye.Phoebe gets real about becoming a mum at 20, the trolling that hit the moment she announced her pregnancy, and the "teen mum" stereotype she still battles.Then it goes deeper: losing her mum at 12 and her sister at 16, why she'll always be honest with Olive, signs from loved ones, and the eerie moment Olive recognised her late nan from a photo.Plus the lighter stuff: the Christmas debate, twin life, and nursery fees that'll make your eyes water.Grab a cuppa and get comfy.A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to Mums the Word. I'm your host, Kelsey Parker. Today I'm joined by the lovely Phoebe Tomlinson. Phoebe became a mum at just 19, something she'd always dreamed of, and she's spoken so honestly about the cruel backlash she faced online for it, as well as navigating motherhood after losing her own mum, Joanna. So grab a cupper, get comfy, and let's jump into a brand new episode of Mons to World. Me, welcome. Hi, thanks for having me.

How are you? I am good. How are you? Yeah, I'm all right. How's your year been going? Years being good. I feel like 2026 has gone really fast. Yeah, I think it's gone so fast.

Like it's like summer. Yeah, it's summer and you know before it, before we even know it. Yeah. Sam will be over. I know. And then it'll be Christmas. That's my favourite time of year. Is it?

Yeah. What do you love about? Christmas? Well, I just, I'm a winter girl. So I like love everything that happens during winter, like, like autumn and winter. Love it all. Oh my God. Are you a summer girl? Oh my God. All day long. Really? My twin is, but I just... I hate winter. Do you? I thrive. I hate it is cold. Coziness. Bill's could choose so much more because you've got to have the heat you all the time. There is that. So let's talk about you being a young mum. My favourite, glamorous, youthful mother.

Did you get a lot of backlash online? Yeah, when I first announced I did. And I think like all young moms do. Like it's just like, it's just like... But what do people say? Well, I think they just judge you because of your age and they just assume that like, because you're so young, your baby's like not planned.

But like... You planned your baby? Yeah. But like people don't think that. How old were you when you fell pregnant? I was 19 when I fell pregnant. I was 20 when I had her. Yeah.

Oh, just after you. after I had her. See, but actually, when you look back in the day, yeah, to like our mum's, my mom had her first baby at 19. Yeah, and my mum was at 18. I just think we've actually babied the generation growing up that they actually couldn't cope.

Like I look at my family members, my brothers, I often talk about them on this podcast, and I think, oh my God, you just would not be able to cope with a child. No. But you're like so mature. Yeah, it depends, isn't it? And you, I think, again, you've been through so much that you've had to grow up.

So why wouldn't you? you? Yeah. But what do people say? Give me some... Again, it's just like where they think baby's not planned, going to, oh, you get so much, going to ruin your life. Your life's not going to be the same. And like, actually, my kids are going to be, like, grown when I'm, like, still kind of young. So actually, I'm going to get my life back. Yeah. In your 40s, when people still having kids at 40? Yeah. And I just wanted to be a young mom. Who cares what people say? Who cares what big things? And this is what really annoys me with, having a platform.

Yeah. Because I just don't know who people think they are to judge. Like really, having Olive, has that actually affected them people online that have messaged you? No. Have you asked them to come around during the night and have Olive? No. So what's it to you? Live your life and be happy with what you're doing.

I can't believe it can affect people the way that it does. But that's what the cons are of social media. Yeah. Look, there's so many pros, isn't there? Yeah. But the cons are the judgment and the shame. The outside noise, yeah. But I'm quite good at ignoring it.

Are you? Yeah. It doesn't affect you? No. Although when I did announce Olive, I say it doesn't affect me, but I think when you announce something so big and, like, close to you, it sort of did in a way because I was like,

this is, like, so exciting and happy in my life. And, like, not everyone was happy for me. It's frustrating because you read, I feel like you read, like, the 10 horrible ones. and then like obviously there's thousands of like amazing nice ones. Yeah, no, and it does that way. It doesn't matter what anyone says because you still get hung up. Look, if you went out and I went, oh, I don't really like the top you've got on.

That would stick with you. I love it, by the way. I love it. But it does stick with us. Yeah. You just remember the negative ones. Not that you actually care and it's not consuming you. However, it does stick with you.

I had it with Phoenix. Yeah. And it was the same. Like when I put it out there, obviously I was over the moon, elated. it's so happy and then there were people online that have been so negative to all me and hateful and again I talk about this but it's like

that whole time like basically they're talking for your time your time you've been here so you're 19 you've only had 19 years there how dare you have a child because you're 19 we're so hung up on time and what we should be doing like just do what you want in life

like you're happy but especially that you have been through so much Mm-hmm. Has that impacted you on decisions? Yeah, because I feel like you just grow up so much quicker. So when I was 19, even though, like, my friends were in, like, really different situations, I just felt like a little, like, 30-year-old.

So I was like, obviously I'm ready to, like, live, like, move out, have a baby, settle down, whatever. And people were like, why when you're so young? But, like... Why not? Yeah, when you get... When you go through such, like, trauma. events. I feel like

it does alter your brain in ways and also it just reminds you how short life is. So like I think that played a big part in it as well. 100%. Look, we are completely on the same page, aren't we? Because why would you not? Yeah. Have your friends loved it that you've

had a baby? I mean, I've got a really small circle, like really small so I've got like best friends, like a few best friends. And do you feel like you've had to keep your circle small? Yeah. And I feel like that's a really quite a positive thing that happens when you have kids is like you do realise

who are your like real ones because it is the friends that are like in Olive's life now because it changes doesn't it you have to think about who's going to be in their life not just yours so yeah I've got a really select small group of people that are really just there for us but do you feel like you had that because of

your brother and the fame or all of you really I can't leave any of you out because obviously the impact of Louis's success has been the ripple and domino effect for you all. Yeah. So do you feel like? Yeah, I feel like I always had it a little bit

and like during school it's like another thing you have to be quite careful. But I don't know. Have you had anyone sell stories or anything? I don't know. We haven't really had many stories like that where people close to us or like at least I don't know about them. So probably.

but like... And have you felt that people just wanted to be friends with you because of who... I don't really think back, to be honest, maybe in like school's school. Like, so like... You must have been like the most popular girl at school,

you and your sister. Not really. How are you not the most... Because people just... Your brother was in one direction. People just get used to that sort of thing and they don't really care. And also in school, people are too cool

to like like you because your brother's famous. So like, no one can't ask you for tickets? Can you get me VIP? Can you get me when, believe you, I picked tickets? Yeah, I think there was quite a lot of that, actually, yeah. You're like, no, I can literally get them for friends and family. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard.

It's so hard. I'm lucky if I get a bloody A-AA. Yeah, literally. I'm like, no, I can't get you tickets. Yeah. How have you felt grieving in front of the public? I don't even know how to answer that one because it's like I've not got anything to compare it to.

So, like, I don't know what grieving would really be like without them there. Probably better because I feel like there's so much kindness out there these days, especially around grief. Like grief's a huge topic these days, especially around young grief as well, which is amazing. So yeah, probably it's actually helped in a way just because you can sort of like voice your feelings online

and like, yeah, there's like bad comments and stuff, but there's a lot of kindness out there. Do you feel like we do talk about grief enough? because this is a question I get asked and I guess I'm asking someone who has lived the same sort of life as me. I mean, I don't know. It depends where, it depends like if you're looking for it.

I feel like you'll get it. But it's like, I don't know, young grief, I think has come a long way. Because you was only, how old was you when your mum passed away? 12, which is so young, isn't it? And like really, a really tricky age. And I, yeah, for any child that age to lose a parent. Because also when I think of my kids, like obviously you had 12 years with your mum

and that was so special and you feel like well I'm not putting words into your mouth but like as in you know you had that but then it's like what life could you have lived with your mum but with my kids it's like that Bodie was only 18 months when Tom died so for him he's been robbed of like

even getting 12 years do you know what I mean and it's just that's really really really young. That's like my little siblings were like that with our mom. Yeah, and how have they coped? Weird, because it's almost like, doesn't affect them obviously as much as it like affects. I don't know. I don't want to like dismiss their feelings. No, but I know what you mean. That's what I feel like that you've got like, you, you had 12 years with your mum. You know exactly the person who you have missed

and loved and longed for. But obviously with, you know, your brother's, your brother and sister, isn't it? Yeah. They're the same as my children. Like they never. got that with your mum's. They don't know what they've missed out on. Like their life is just, they have not got a mum. Yeah. And it is sad, but like sort of like blissfully unaware of like what it could have been. I think they're just, they've got a nice life. They haven't got a same dad to me. No. They've got a nice life and I'm happy that they've got like a family figure and yeah. When you were 12, do you feel like, because I've obviously worked with a lot of children and really like looked into children dealing with grief.

Do you feel like you were told the honest truth by the people around you? Or do you feel like you and your sister were like shut out of conversations because maybe you were too young? Like, what's your take? How do you feel that? Yeah, I definitely feel like we were shut out during the time when mum was poorly. And then I think when things got really bad and when people started to realise that mum wasn't going to make it, there was no doubt about that.

I think then they had to like, like go, like further in, like, telling details. And I think you have to, don't you? I'm an advocate for being straight up. To be honest, I'm like saying that, but I've never had to be in that situation, luckily. And hopefully I won't have to be in that situation. But I do think if you're straight up and honest with kids, they respond better to that. Yeah. Because that's how I, that would be my advice to any parent that's going through that is be as honest as possible.

Yeah. Because the conversations I've had with children is the fact that they felt like, you know, I wasn't aware of what was going on. And I was shot out of a room and all the adults were having conversation. And I think we underestimate the ability of our children. They know everything anyway. Even by a young age, they're listening to everything. When you think they're not listening, they're listening.

So I think if you're as open and honest as possible, and look, we know the ultimate thing that you're guaranteed in this lifetime is you're going to die. Like, that is it, unfortunately. So I think if you're aware, it was just interesting for me to see if you felt that way because obviously you had older siblings. And I definitely felt at times that they knew more than I did. And still probably now they know. So how old was your brother and sisters?

So two older sisters, one who's not with us anymore. But Fizz was, I think Fis was like 18. I think my other older sister Lottie would have been about 21, which is all 22, which is my age now. And then our brother who is, I think he's like 34 now. My partner will, he lost his dad when he was 21. So I think again, it's like... I think that's a really sad age.

Yeah. Because it's like you're really aware, but you still haven't had that long. And I think we will, but he's suppressed a lot. Yeah. Whereas he's met me and I'm just so open and I can openly talk about grief. But some people do struggle. Yeah. So you lost mum at 12 and then you lost your sister.

Mm-hmm. When how old were you when your sister passed away? I was 16 and that was not harder than mum obviously because neither were like harder than one another. Oh anyway, don't talk about that because you will get criticised by saying you find a deaf harder than the other because that's what they, that's what the press have gone to town with me on to say that I found Phoenix harder or Tom. But it's just different, isn't it?

It's different loss. One's your sister, one's your mum. One was my baby. One was my husband. Like it's completely different loss. And like, yeah, it's just different feelings. And I think where something happens again, it's like sort of heightened because it's like...

It brought them feelings back up. Yeah. How can you live this again? Yeah. So it was one of them. It wasn't like I was sadder. Is that a word? It's sadder.

Yeah. But it was just more of a like not again type feeling. And obviously with your sister, it just came as a massive shock as well. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas we had time to sort of compute the fact that mum was ill. but yeah, Fizz was shot.

But again, I think with that as well, like people were like, oh yeah, but obviously like with Tom and you know it's like, no, no, because you still have hope. And even with mum, you had hope. There's always hope. And I definitely did because of like the conversations that I was left out of until the very end. So like I probably had more hope than anyone. She's going to get better.

She's going to get better. And then it was like, yeah. Your mum's not going to get better. Basically, you need to spend time with her and say, did your mum go into a hospice? No, she didn't go into a hospice, but she... I remember she came home for like two days. And I think even that, like, gave me quite a lot of hope.

But looking back on things, it was probably a coming home to, like, relax sort of thing. And then she actually got a chest infection, which was sort of like... Not what did it because mum was really poorly, but that was what made her have to go back in. And then eventually she ended up passing away in the hospital, but she never went in the hospice.

So yeah, she was relaxed there at the end and everyone was round her. Do you have an insatiable fascination with the paranormal? Are you ready to dive headfirst into the eerie realms of the unexplained? Brace yourself for the supernatural world is about to reveal all of its secrets on the paranormal activity podcast.

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Will you dare to join me? Listen to Paranormal Activity with me, Yvette Fielding, wherever you get your podcast from. This is a question for you. Are you scared of death? No, I don't know how to answer that, but as soon as you said it, I thought no. So I'm just going to go with me. Yeah, that's your gut. Go with your gut feeling. Don't overthink it. I don't think I'm scared of it.

No. But I'm scared. I'm scared it's going to happen like prematurely. are like in a tragic way but I'm not scared of actually dying. Yeah. Because I think when someone has had a lived experience, you're almost not, I'm like not scared to die. Yeah. And even someone said to me the other day, but what about your kids?

But your kids will always be okay. You're okay, aren't you? Mm-hmm. Like you're always, they'll always be okay. And we, it's leaving your body and not being, like, that's what my mum said. My mum was like, but then I want to know what my grandkids are doing. And I want to know what everything's happening. I'm like, but you will know.

Yeah. It depends what you believe in after, doesn't it? It depends what you believe in. But obviously, I do believe in the soul's journey. So I believe your mum is with us now. I believe your sister's with us. Like, they're watching you. They send you signs.

Do you get signs? Small signs. So, like, things that people say are signs, like feathers, numbers. Yeah. I do believe in those, though. I know you do. You love a sign. I love it all.

But I just think you have to look somewhere for positive. So how do you keep your mum and your sister's memory alive for Olive? Oh, that's a really tricky one. And also, I'm going to feel really guilty now because it's not being a huge topic yet. Because Olive's still too. Yeah. And it definitely will be. Oh, it will be for sure because she's going to ask you so many questions.

Yeah, and also, do you know what's weird? And this is why I do believe in what you say about, like, the souls and things, is because I've got a picture of mum in the living room. And although I haven't ever really spoke to Olive about my mum, she said the other day, Nanny. She said that's Nanny. But, like, I've never really said to Olive that, like, that was Nanny or Nanny's not here.

Nanny's in heaven. So I do feel like kids just know things. Kids know so much. You were saying your little girl is like... Oh, beyond. Like, the stuff she knows, I'm just like, how do you even know that? Like, she is a witch.

through and through. Yeah. Kids are definitely. But I was saying this on another podcast the other day that even when like you're pregnant, right, and you take children to the scan and you're like, you want them to be so excited but they're like not, they're just okay with it because they know, they're like,

I don't know what you're getting excited about because we know, we know all of this. Yeah. But when you grow up, you lose that ability to then connect with whatever. that it is what we did when we were younger. Yeah. Like they are so innocent and so in tuned with what...

They are. Like her, Olive knows about her son. Yeah. But you've not made it a big thing. No. But she knows. I know. But you'll get a lot of questions, like, you know, even with...

Well, where's your... Where's your mommy? Yeah. Where's auntie? Yeah. And my older sister's really good at this with her kids. Just like, again, being really honest with them, that like they won't meet them necessarily

but like they're in heaven and whatever but yeah I haven't I don't know why I don't know why I haven't I guess Ollo's still young and if when she asks me about that obviously I'll be like more than happy to tell her about everything but yeah I don't really well the conversation has just not come up yet no but it'll be put that's part of her life and her journey so she'll understand but yeah I was interested to know

if she has asked anything yet But I feel like with Aurelia, I feel like she's always put the pressure on me to ask me questions. About her dad. About, like, absolutely everything. About her dad. Yeah.

Really like, she is such a truth seeker. I love that. She's like, yeah, I want the truth from me. Tell me the truth. So when we try and like, you know. Fluff it up. Yeah. She's like, no, this is not right.

I mean, her dad used to shout out bullshit. I mean, she might as well just shout out, bullshit, moms. Bullshit. a chance me. So yeah, but when them conversations come, then you have to figure away, but I think you'll be honest and straight because like you said,

that's what all you ever wanted really is for people to be honest. Yeah, definitely. Do you feel like, going back, okay, to being a young mum, do you feel like you've missed out on anything? No. I feel like the opposite. Like,

I'm like really smug when people say, and do you know what I hate? Oh, right, yeah, here we go. You know, we're going to get into what I hate now, guys. Someone said to me the other day on Instagram, what's it like being a young mum? And like, I hate that. Like, because it's just so, like, it's the same as being a mom any age.

An old mum. Like, it's... Why are looking at me or an old mum? Yeah, like, same challenges, same ups and downs. I'm actually a geriatric mum. What does that mean? That means, like, I'm... Like an older mum.

I'm an old mum. When you're past 35, like, in this pregnancy, I'm a geriatric mum. Are you sad for me? I'm a Gen Z, Mom, aren't nothing. You're a cool mom. No, you're a cool mom.

Yeah, go on, carry on, sorry. What was you saying? You feel what are I? Yeah, so I was like, it's just the same, I hate that question because it's like, it's the same as being any mom. Like, you still have to be a mum, you're still raising a child,

like, you still have the same challenges. Like, it's not really different. Do you know what I mean? It's the way people, view you though and I find myself a lot overcompensating so like being ripped like

yeah trying to like prove that I'm an amazing mum because I feel like people naturally doubt younger moms for whatever reason do you feel judged when you even walk down the street of being a younger man I did when I when she was a baby and when I was like pushing her in a pram because I feel like there's such a stereotype and they're like oh she's like a teenage mom teen mom

like that show but like now that she's bigger I don't know what shifted I think when I'm like, because she can walk in things, I feel like people don't judge you as much because it's like, I think people think maybe she's older so you have to be a bit older. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I know what you mean.

Like when you've got a newborn and then like, oh my God, she's just pot one out. Yeah. And she's like a teen mom. Even though I actually wasn't a teen mom. I just missed being a teen. You just missed it. So my mum had my brothers when I was, obviously,

I was a teenager. And I used to obviously love taking. them out. Yeah. And I once took one of my brothers out in a buggy and was pushing him around at local high street and someone actually said to me, that's disgusting.

Because they thought you were the mum. They thought it was the mum and I was like, because obviously we look alike too, because he's my brother. Yeah. I was like, no, it's my brother. Like, it's not my child. I'm not really...

But also, if it was your baby... Who cares? But there's just such a stigma around it. I mean, like, you couldn't be smashing it anymore. Like, as well, like, you have lived your life and you've all... so created a career that suits you to be a mum.

Like, it's not like you're having to work your way up the ladder in a nine to five job trying to get to the CEO position because you probably wouldn't be having a child at 19-20. No. Because it's maternity leave, it's, you know, having childcare. Yeah. You're actually so fortunate. You've built a career and a life around Olive that you can be there and be present. Yeah, it's so circumstantial. And I do genuinely think sometimes these shows like, I know we were joking about it, but like teen mum,

I think they sometimes can like do it for their young moms in like a negative way as in like they make the stereotype because on the shows they don't pick like moms that are successful and it sounds horrible. But they could have had you as a teen mom and been like. Yeah, but they pick like the ones and probably not now but like the ones back in the day where they're like no job, they're still in school.

And I'm like that's not what teen, moms are. Do you know what I mean? But like what I'm saying, in our mother's generation, it was actually, and our nans. Yeah, it was normal. You had a child at 18, 19, 20. It's what I'm saying now, the pressures of life are so tough for us that you can't, you can't even think about, like, look at nursery fees. People can't actually afford nursery fees.

So basically, you've got to be with someone that can even financially support you so you can have a child at a young age. Yeah. And not work. Or take a little bit of maternity and go back and then put your child in nursery, but your monthly wage is not even calculating to your nursery fees. They're insane. I mean, yeah.

Does Olive go to nursery? Yes. A few days a few days a week. Two days at the moment. But we are like government bonded at the moment. Well, yeah, because you get to a year and then you get your hours. Yeah. Which I think is great.

Yeah, it's great. But for mums that actually need to work, obviously you're putting her in two days. For mums that actually need to work full time. It's just, it's not feasible. Feasible, feasible, feasible is the word. Not feasible. I've heard the nursery fees are insane.

See, I was lucky as well because obviously I wanted to be that mum that was present and I only put my children in Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and I always had Friday and Monday off with them. Obviously if I had to work, then a family member would step in, like my mom and my auntie. Do you feel like you have the village?

Yes, but I have it with a real select tiny group. But I still feel like I have it, which is amazing because, yeah, we don't have loads of people around us. But in terms of like my baby's dad's parents are amazing. Like, they're like a whole village in one. And then my twin, she has, Olive a lot. So yeah it's like

really small amount of people. It's nice for your twin because she takes her out, she does all the fun stuff and then she gives her back to you. Yeah and Olive loves her just like another me. Yeah it is. It's like another mom. Does sometimes she get confused? She's never ever... This is what I mean again like with the probably with the soul thing. She's never

got me and Daisy confused. Like she's never even said like mom or like I mean we look the same. Literally the same. Yeah. Like when I first met you as I actually couldn't tell you the part and you were like yeah look um I do think we look at my head shape yeah I always take go to head shape yeah how is your podcast Gavin yes good we're on a little break at the moment oh because we did a we did a season of like 12 apps then we're having a little break then we're doing another season what's your podcast called tea with the twins tea with twins thanks with a little plug no we've got to plug it away

plug it's away and what do you talk about on your pod so it's a mixture of everything really It can't be like all mum's mum chat because obviously Daisy's not a mum. Yeah, poor Daisy, she's like, oh, boring. Yeah, we do talk about grief a lot and just all things, twins. What would be your advice to anyone that's going through grief right now?

I always say to people, not even just grief, but like, when you go through hard times, I sort of like sit with it. Because a lot of people, a lot of people these days want to just like rush through it and like get out the other side,

but like actually sort of going to come back to square one. at some point. So I've learned that doing things that you love and make you feel like amazing and like make you feel your best. Just like little things.

I like romanticising things like life, like small life things. Do you know like if you've got like... That's why you love Christmas. Because you are that person that's like Christmas, oh we're laid on the sofa with a duvet on watching Christmas films

and having a hot chocolate. Yeah. Why do I feel like you mocking me? Just because you don't like Christmas. Because I hate Christmas. Do you like Christmas? I don't love Christmas. I think it's so overrated.

Yeah, a lot of people say that, don't they? No, but what I'm saying is you, like, that thought is absolutely wonderful and beautiful. And I probably had that many years ago. I do think for me as well, going through grief, and I feel like I've been robbed of things. Yeah. Like with Tom and Tom waking up Christmas morning with the kids and stuff like that. I feel like I've had a lot. Like I am so in awe that you could actually make beauty in all of that.

Oh, thank you. Daisy, my twin, she's a bit like you though. She's a bit like can't enjoy it now. But our mama loved Christmas. So I think that's what makes, and that's why Daisy doesn't like it now because obviously mum's not here. But I sort of went like the other way with it.

And I was like, Mom loved it. Yeah, Mom loved it. Let's carry it on. Yeah. And it is an amazing day for us. Like we all get together, obviously, family's so big. I know. Where do you all go?

We all, Nan hosts every year. So we all go. Yeah, she's the, she's the best host. Yeah, and your nan and granddad have been amazing, haven't they? Oh my God. Let's not, let's give them a shout out. Let's get them a shout out. Because when we were talking at the event, I was like, wow, you're, they really had to step up.

Yeah. And at a time in their life where they were, like, retiring, ready to, like, relax. they literally had to take on like me a dais. They've got the biggest gifts of all, do you? Yeah, they did. But yeah, my nan, both of them, but my nan is hands down the best woman on the earth. Like she, and everyone says it. Like, you meet her once and, like, you think it.

She's crazy. Do you ring your nan about everything? No, because she's a warrior. Oh. Like a crazy warrior. So if I rang her about everything, she'd probably just be worrying 20%. But is she always been a warrior or do you think since losing, your mum, she worries about you all more.

I think she's always been a warrior. Yeah. But that is interesting. She's probably become a bit more of a warrior. But then, yeah. But again, I think because she was at retirement and at this stage where she was like going to settle down and then she's like, right. I think your worries are so different. Yeah. Like, and some people do just worry, don't they? Yeah. And I'm a warrior as well. But some of the things I'm like, Nan, you've got to stop. Like we've got two, two life. family dogs, every time I go, she's like, the dog's not well. Like, there's something wrong with the dog.

I'm like, why? And she's like, he's just walking for me. But like little things, she's like such a little warrior. Yeah, and she's not hyperfocuses. She's a carer as well, like feed her, carer. So she's like, I need to go and see your now. Yeah. I need to pop out and go, can you feed me?

Yeah. Show what my nan's like that. If you dare go around there and say you're on a diet, it's like. Are you not hungry? Yeah, you're not hungry. It's like, well, do you mean, you must come to my house and you must eat. And it's not going to be what's on your diet. It's going to be wherever she wants to be, Joe.

No, that's the best. I like taking olives to my hands. Well, this has been a lovely, lovely chat. It has. And I have loved everything that we have spoken about. And just, I think we're quite similar on how we have dealt with grief. Yeah, definitely. Thank you for coming.

Thanks for having me. That's a wrap on another episode. episode of Mums the Word, thank you so much for joining us today as we were joined by the amazing Phoebe Tomlinson. Don't forget to leave us a review, follow us on socials at at Mums the Word underscore pod and subscribe to our YouTube channel where you can watch our episodes in full. Just search Mums the Word. Until next time, I'm Kelsey Parker and this has been Mums the Word. And we'll be back with another episode, same time, same place next week.