Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - JIM CHAPMAN: Opens up about his traumatic childhood to Georgia Jones

Episode Date: September 29, 2024

In this heartfelt and insightful episode of Mum's The Word, Georgia Jones is joined by the one and only Jim Chapman! Together, they dive into Jim's parenting journey, exploring fatherhood from a dad's perspective and how he navigates the challenges of being a modern parent. Jim opens up about his traumatic childhood, where he faced domestic abuse, and shares how those experiences have shaped him as both a person and a parent today.They also tackle your listener questions, offering advice, sharing personal stories, and shining a light on the ups, downs, and everything in between when it comes to raising little ones.It’s an honest, raw, and inspiring conversation you won’t want to miss!A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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new season of Mums the Word. I'm Georgia Jones and I'm so excited to kick off this season with another amazing guest. Joining me today is the non-other than the incredible Jim Chapman. We have got so much to chat about. We hear about Jim's parenting journey. But do diligence. We should sort of do a DNA test and check. Oh you mean in case like a baby's got swapped? In case there's a baby's got swapped but... I was going to say she's going to do herself a disservice there if you're getting a DNA

test. It was a very quiet night in the hospital that night, there's only one baby born and they were Korean. What we often don't hear about from a dad's perspective. My depression and my anxiety and the things that I struggle with aren't, thank God, touch word, aren't kicked off by the things that the kids bring into my life. My children have actually, and this is going to sound really cliché, but they've only brought me pleasure.

And him opening up about his traumatic childhood and how it shaped who he is today. Was he physical with your mum as well? Oh yeah. Very. Did you see it happen? Yeah. He did? Yeah a number of times and I think for my mum she, bless her, she thought she was doing the right thing I think keeping it under wraps to protect us. Yeah. Plus your listener questions. So then she goes, Daddy, I need a poo. So I have to, and it's always me, because she's a daddy's girl, so I have to go upstairs. She doesn't need the toilet at all, she just wants me. So grab a cuppa, get comfy, and let's jump

into this brand new episode of Mums the Word. Jim is here. I'm here, hello. Now, me and Jim have formed a lovely friendship over the last few months, haven't we? Yeah. So we've not known each other that long. No, we haven't, but it feels like an eternity.

It really does. And I mean that in a month's positive. Okay, good, because that sounded slightly negative. It just feels like I've known you for such a long time. But yeah, I met Jim and we really did, like, just get on so well from day one, didn't we? Yeah, we did. I think it's because we are the same age.

Same age. I was gonna say we're old. We're old in our industry, we're certainly the experienced members of the team aren't we? We are, we are, we've been doing it a while. We're the geriatrics of the social media world. So Jim, you shot to fame, your launch into this whole world was YouTube,

right, initially? Just tell us a little bit for anyone that doesn't know who you are, which would surprise me. I would very much say we didn't shoot to fame. It was kind of like, for me it was a creative outlet. I didn't know any of the rest of it was going to happen. And it was slow and really underground and then it Snowballs the nature of the internet, right? It kind of is is exponential one person tells two people and they tell four people and before you know it there's loads of them But it was very like innocent. I had no idea it was gonna be anything I think now people start social media because they want to be famous or wealthy or whatever it is.

Agreed. I had no bloody idea. I just wanted to do something that was more than the job I was doing because I was miserable. What were you doing prior? Well, I always say this. I wanted to be an illustrator. I was really good. I was much better than I am now actually annoyingly Oh, you're a very good drawer and then I Got to sixth form and I was taking art but I also took psychology is one of my options and I ended up being really good at that and I thought you know what there's much more of a job in that so I took that as my degree, right? So I stopped drawing and then graduated and was like right Let's go conquer the world and realized that you don't just conquer the world

because you've got a degree. And so I worked in retail and I worked in insurance and I worked in the magistrates court for a while. Did you? I was the guy that would send the bailiffs after you. Oh, okay. Yeah, if you had a fine for a parking, but also do you know what?

It was the worst job because I am a very empathetic soul and I care and I would be sending the bailiffs, the debt collectors to single mums who got a parking ticket two years ago and have since moved house and didn't know about it. I'm really sorry. The amount of people I let off was well above, you were given a quota of things and I was just like, no, you're all right. You know? I can imagine, you'd have been pretty terrible

at that job for all the right reasons. When you just said it then, I was like, no, you can't have done that. Yeah, I was miserable, because I'd get home after a day of making people who were already on the bread line sell their TV, or, you know, and had no creative outlooks, I wasn't drawing anymore.

I didn't know what my degree in psychology was gonna lead to. And at the level I had as an undergraduate, or as a degree, I could only really do like social work or quite general things. If you wanna do one of the specific kind of cool things like forensics, which sounds amazing, or criminology or the big ones,

you have to go back and like double down. So I started doing a masters. I was doing it part time over two years because I couldn't afford, I was paying for myself. So I was working full time in order to pay for it. So I was doing it part time over two years rather than full time over one. And on the weekends I'd make content on YouTube because it was my creative outlet. And then it got to the point where I didn't go back to my second year of my masters because I was getting enough traction.

Yeah. And I was earning peanuts, but my mom was saying, well, you can start paying rent. I was like, if all I can do is pay you rent from my income from social media, then I'll live with you forever, but it brings me joy. And at this point, I was about the lowest I'd ever been. I was very depressed. Right. And so I was about the lowest I'd ever been. I was very depressed.

And so I was like, I'm gonna quit. I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna live with you forever so get used to me. Was that depression a new thing? Had that come from? I think it's always been in me, but I think that the circumstance of my existence really brought it out.

I think I've always had the tendency and I also think that I didn't know what it was for a while because this was nearly 20 years ago, maybe what, so I started doing social media like 15 years ago. So we're looking like 17, 18 years ago and men didn't talk about mental health then at all. And so I didn't know what it was,

but I just knew that I felt fucking miserable. Yeah. All the time. And not just miserable, but like heavy. Yeah. Like stuck. Yeah. And so I was like, I have to get out. So my mom was really worried about me, to be fair.

She was buying me all these like herbal remedies for- Oh bless her. I know, and no one knew what it was. No one understands. Because no, yeah, right. Or not back then so much, did they? No, yeah. Especially parents, our parents' right. Or not back then so much, did they? No, yeah. Especially parents, our parents' generation.

When I told her I was quitting my job and dropping out of university in order to ask you this social media, she was like, you are mental, but okay. Because I think she would rather a son that enjoyed what he was doing with his time. Yeah. And so, and then, yeah, 15 years later.

And then all this happened but now your social media has is quite different because you're a daddy yeah and you've got two children now yeah who feature on your social media which is really super cute Cooper's online yeah and you've got Margo yeah and Jessie and they are how old? So Margo's just turned three, Jessie's just turned one. And they, I think something happened with the milkman because they- Right, they look like they've never met each other. They are not from the same g's to all those kids.

Margot looks like me without a beard and with curly hair. She doesn't like you. She's got Sarah's skin tone and Jessie looks like you. It wasn't me. He's got bright blue eyes and he's got like really really bright blonde hair and me and Sarah are often like are you sure? Yeah, I know isn't it funny? And I'm not exaggerating she truly was saying recently do you think we should get him tested? Whatever happens

he's our son now but do you think out just for due diligence we should sort of do a DNA test? Oh you mean in case like a baby's got swapped? In case there's a baby's got swapped but... I was going to say she's going to do herself a diss. Oh, you mean in case like a baby's got swapped. In case there's a baby's got, but. I was gonna say, she's gonna do herself a disservice there if you're getting a DNA test. It was a very quiet night in the hospital that night, and there's only one of the baby born and they were Korean. Right, I don't think it happened then. I think you're all good.

And also, I saw him enter the world, so it's definitely, he's definitely the one. Is it, is it? But I don't know where he came from. It's so funny, isn't it, when they're so different? Yeah. So obviously, you know know you've talked about, you are really really vocal, which is gorgeous,

about your mental health online. And I feel like so many more men need to do that. Like we have so many mums, come on mums the word, you know it's called mums the word. But it is not just, parenting isn't just the mum, it's the dad too. And we talk a lot about the mum's mental health and post-natal depression,

but we don't often talk about the dad's mental health in all of it. And obviously you've suffered prior. So how was that when you had, well, Margot first, did it change how you felt? No, just increased pressure to make sure that I can provide for them, you know, and to make sure they have an upbringing

that was not like mine. And also, doing what I do for a living now, my life has totally changed. You know, I live in a nice house in London now, and I get to travel the world and do really, really cool things. Growing up, it was just my mum after my dad was gone, looking after four kids on benefits and making ends meet, right? I can give my kids a life that I could only dream of, but that comes with the pressure of continuing to earn and work.

And so it's a different kind of worry now. My depression and my anxiety and the things that I struggle with aren't, thank God, touch wood, aren't kicked off by the things that the kids bring into my life. My children have actually, and this is going to sound really cliche, but they've only brought me pleasure. Apart from when they've been sick, and Jesse was sick when he was born, and Margo had Asper and ended up in hospital a few times. But when all is well, they are, again this isn't gonna sound like bullshit, but they are like the cure to all of my worries. Do you know, I think it goes one way or the other though, I do think.

And often what I've noticed with people that have, already have problems with their mental health or issues, I feel like it can be the making of them. My sister-in-law, completely the making of her, she's always had depression. When she had her two little boys, it was the making of her, whereas me, never suffered with a single mental health issue. Had Cooper, well that was the start of a long spiral downwards.

Yeah, it must have. Yeah, and it was tough. So you don't want to sort of like start identifying them as the reason for your, you know, that's tricky. But that's where therapy is so important, because I knew he wasn't the reason, well I mean him coming into the world was, but it was because of how I had to have everything so perfect yeah you know in

order that's not why I'm like as a parent I'm very much like it ain't perfect we roll with it well I am now but I had to learn this because prior to that it was just me I could make sure that I was ready at a certain time be out of the house I was like I was just everything ran I was ready at a certain time, be out of the house. I was like, I was just everything ran smooth. I mean the sacrifices you make as a parent, wild. Even things like I now have to go to the gym at the crack of dawn to get my own time in. Or I have to discuss it with Sarah for ages and work out what the week looks like so I can fit my own time in. Whereas prior to that all my time was my time. Yeah, exactly.

You're selfish when you're without child. We are selfish. Yeah, well I don't think that you're necessarily selfish. I just think that when you have a kid, you have to become so selfless. Yes. In that your time should be yours. And then you have children, you're like,

oh, it's not anymore. Not anymore. Like everything you do, every decision you make, everything you do is actually actually then you have to consider who's got them, where they are, is it in their best interest, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, so you don't get loads of choice and options anymore.

No, and especially when you want to work. Right. Especially when you want to have a career and both of you want to have a career. Right. And that changes a lot of things. You talked about, briefly just then, which I just wanted to come back to,

about your life growing up. So you said your dad wasn't around. He was an abusive father, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So do you wanna tell it, can you tell us a little bit? It's funny, because I was saying to you earlier, I do a lot of these podcasts, and it often comes up, and whenever I mention my dad and say he was abusive, then sort of okay, and they move on I think they are

Maybe maybe panicked or maybe sort of unsure on How to proceed or whether they can probe but I don't wear it as it's not no It's hard to explain it but like it's not trauma for me anymore It's not I don't I don't want him to have that power anymore. So he died years ago now, 2017, I wanna say, at MS. My memory of him is that he was very angry about that. And I also think, and I don't say these words and flippantly, like a lot of people on social media,

like everyone's a narcissist now, and everyone's of this and everyone's of that. And again, my degree is in psychology, so I have a bit more understanding than say most, but I really do think he had a lot of tendencies of even things like psychopathy. Like he had so little remorse and so little, he was glib and like- What does that mean? So glib is like when you are superficially charming.

Oh. You know what I mean? So to everyone else was he? There's nothing behind it, but you can walk in and sort of impress a room. And my dad had that in spades, but he manipulated everybody. Like he was, I didn't know that he actually had hit me.

There's a lot of my childhood I don't remember. Right. Like there were chunks of it that are just no longer in there. My mom told me the other day recently that he had actually attacked, hit me, and I was like, did he? I had no idea. Wow, you totally put that into a,

or it could be in there somewhere, you just don't realize it. Yeah, my therapist is often like, should we unpack it? I'm like, well, if it's not doing me any harm, and she's in agreement, and this isn't the answer for everybody, so I don't want people to listen to this

and take it as gospel, but for me, my therapist is like, if it's locked away, it might be locked away for a reason. And if you start unpacking it, it might do more harm than good. Like your brain is really good at protecting itself. So if it's in there and you are functioning and you're not unhappy, etc, etc, then why go down that rabbit hole just to find out that it was fucking horrible? Yeah, why unlock it and potentially make yourself really unhappy for a while? The thing that I want to do for my children is be dependable, which sounds a bit boring, but actually it's the most fundamental basic thing that children need. One of the worst ways they can attach to a parent, which is what I had with my dad, is

like an anxious attachment where you have insecurities and you don't know what you're going to get. Some days I would see him, and I have memories of things where we used to get this magazine where you'd get a little cutout thing and each week you'd be able to assemble a figure. Oh yeah, yeah I do remember that. And I remember him making time for me

for a couple of episodes of that, and I was like, oh my God, I got time with my dad, how amazing. But I also remember getting my ass kicked a few times because I asked him for the time to do it with me. And so because I didn't know what I was gonna get, it's unsafe. So as a child, you just avoid.

So even now as an adult, I'm six foot three, I'm a big dude, I'm like a big scary man. Even now, my safety is solitude. I would rather be left alone, particularly when I'm under stress or I'm anxious or I'm feeling a bit depressed or whatever. My safe place is solitude because no one can get me there.

So that's why I sit and I draw. I would never be as good as I am at illustrating had I not spent all that time avoiding my father. Was he physical with your mum as well? Oh yeah, yeah. Very. Did you see it happen? Yeah. You did?

Yeah, a number of times. And I think for my mum, she, bless her, she thought she was doing the right thing, I think keeping it under wraps to protect us. Yeah. And actually it all kicked off one day because my brother and I, we must have been five or six walked in because we heard noises on him just hammering her. And I think for her, she knew that the veil had been lifted. So she had to, so the police were called and he was taken away. And at that point she was like, well, the genie's out in the bottle now. So I think she felt like all that, all

that time. And it breaks my heart to think that she had got her arse kicked for so long. And they're just trying to protect you, mum. Just to keep us safe from it, I think. And I don't think she realized that actually by doing that, one, she was putting herself in danger, obviously, but also kids aren't stupid. They understand the environment. I knew my dad was a scary man. Oh, yeah. I was my mum didn't couldn't protect us from that, you know.

And you know you pick up on feelings. You instantly know. I remember as a little girl, somebody came into my mum and dad's shop and I instantly knew I didn't like that person. Right. There's no reason for me not to. They were lovely, but I didn't like them.

I think now I'm, part of the reason I think I'm so empathetic and so it's because actually I'm hyper aware of people. Like I pick up on things that perhaps others wouldn't like yeah body language and yeah like I adore you we met only only a number of times but I get such I I don't know I'm quite good at reading people I'm an empath as well so we've obviously got drawn to each other because like tell us all about it yeah but there are people who I mean I'm like mmm don't know and this and very rarely am I wrong from that first impression and I don't know if it's just because I'm so now

And this is such a horrible thing to think about what Sarah calls little Jim Is that he must have been on the lookout for danger all the time? To try to stay out of harm's way, but also he was still my dad so when the police took him away and then My mom was that I've got no choice choice now but to sort of follow the protocol. So he was arrested and taken away. And then there's a whole court thing. He wasn't allowed near the house,

but he just kept turning up. Did he? Oh, so he did. I mean, if we were out of the house, he'd come and he'd sort of like trash all the furniture. Oh, wow. He'd set all the fires, he'd do all sorts of things. He didn't stop, even when he got arrested.

One time he turned up at the house and I opened the window, his mum was like, I'm calling the police, why open the window? Cause he was my dad. I said, dad, mum's calling the police. He just took me out the window and just drove off. We ended up in a police, I call it a police jeep. He kidnapped you? Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's a strong word for it,

but yeah, he took me out the window. Well it is, but he did. And then the police were called and it was that we ended up, you know, sirens are going. And he also drove like a maniac. And I remember on many occasions him being drunk and threatening. You know that's a form of abuse. I did a podcast with a therapist and she was saying that a real big form of abuse is people

driving erratically to scare the passenger. Oh, he used to threaten to drive us into walls. Yeah, he would. I remember on a number of occasions him saying things. I can't remember him shouting at my mum and saying, I'm going to crash us into a wall. We'll kill us all. Wow. Truly. I mean, he missed my sister's birth because he was in prison for armed robbery

and he was not. Oh, so he wasn't just a dick in the family scenario. Yeah, no, he was ripping people off and there were people after him because he had stolen or... How on earth have you turned out such a well-rounded man, Jim? Well, because my family protected me as much as I could. Because your mum was gorgeous. My mum did everything she could and I think one of the things that I feel so sorry for

little me and my little and my siblings as kids is that we didn't get enough time with my mum because my dad was an asshole whatever but my mum then had to work twice as hard because she was working to pay for what she could pay And then we're on benefits and there's four of us and I've got a twin brother two big sisters one's ten years older ones We all needed different things Nick in the middle seven years older than me three years younger than Sam So we all needed different things and she was providing for us all the best she could But I didn't get much time with her no and also like we were talking about before if someone if someone's made you feel a certain way and you're consumed by it,

which your mom will have been with your dad, she can't have been putting everything into your kids mentally. Yeah, she was providing, she was doing everything she could to keep food on the table and whatnot, but I can imagine she would have just been like a shell of a... Have you seen your mom's still alive isn't she? Have you seen like a real shift in how she is as a parent since

your dad? Maybe since your dad died because I suppose that's like he's gone. What's really interesting is that my dad died only a few months before a few months after my stepdad but he didn't come into my life until I was like 15, 16 so he was never he never tried to be a father figure for me. He was the most wonderful man, Brian. I mean, he was just delightful and so good for my mom. Unfortunately, he died of cancer. And I think it was a few months between them. Do I remember Brian?

And Brian's passing was awful. He just went to watch him sort of waste away. And then my dad was not in my life because I actually, as an adult, I was like, I don't need to see you. You've missed all the good shit. You don't get to just sort of turn up now. And also the damage you've done, you don't deserve to be. I really don't believe, a lot of people say that blood is thicker than water. I just think you're born into the family, you're born into it. I'm really fortunate that I would choose my siblings and choose my mum every day of the week but my dad's nothing more than the sperm that made me yeah you know I

mean I don't know him anything you don't have you don't have to stick with a parent if they're an asshole absolutely like I wouldn't accept that behavior from anybody else in my life so why just because they are related to me should I then go okay yeah I'll come back even more so because they're related to you they should be even better with you, right? Totally. So when I found out he died, I was like, oh, for me, it was like finding out a neighbour

who I can't half know passed away. I'm like, oh, shame I knew him. But it didn't have any effect. However, when Brian died, it was heart wrenching. Yeah, did you go to your dad's funeral? No. Okay, good. I'm quite glad.

But talking about your dad, obviously the way that must have been for you growing up, was any part of you when you had kids worried about how that might affect the way you were? The opposite. Yeah. Actually, because for me, he's kind of like a cautionary tale

because he missed out on four great kids. Yeah. And not only did he miss out on them, he pushed us away. We gave him opportunities. It's not hard to be, well it is hard to be a good parent. But it's really hard. But it's not, I feel like it's instinctual.

I mean maybe I'm wrong and there are plenty of parents out there who it's not instinctual for. I mean it is instinctual. You might not find it easy but you do it. Exactly, it's one of the most difficult things you can do. Like I was saying before you sacrifice everything for them but looking at my kids faces is the is I went downstairs I've been to the gym this morning so Sarah got both the kids up I went that I walked in the house and they were both just delighted to see me and all they

want from me is my time. And love they want just. That's it they don't care about stuff at the moment they will when they older, but they're too young right now. Margo in particular, because she's three and Jesse's only one, so he isn't doing a great deal other than just eating and like calling about and stuff. She just wants to hang out. Oh, it's so lovely when they get to that stage though. That's the easiest bit, isn't it? Like you just, you just...

I mean, it's hard in terms of like finding the time and all that stuff, but when you're with them, I don't feel stressed. I don't feel anxious and I don't feel stressed. I don't feel anxious and I don't feel depressed. And my dad missed all of that. And I deserve my kids' time because I give it to them. You know what I mean? It's, and I know that I do good for them.

I don't always get it right, don't get me wrong. And I'm sure there'll be other ways where I let them down in my time. But I'll never do it maliciously or intentionally, I'll just fuck up. You know what I mean? But all parents do and all parents will. But what I know is that they have my last pound and my last minute. That unconditional love of a parent. And that's it. I remember when I had Cooper, as much as I had postnatal depression for the first

Probably 18 months. I still see still the thought in my head was How could anyone ever abandon their child like how could a parent choose? To not have anything and I'm sure there are plenty of situations where they don't have a choice and like say mental health can get in the way or you know, there are are plenty of situations where they don't have a choice and like I said mental health can get in the way or you know, there are all sorts of instances where Women maybe didn't want to keep the child in the first place You know, but as a as a parent who knew the child was coming into the world and plan for it Yeah, you know, that's what I mean. Yeah

it's it's like I don't know I think for most parents and it's not the same for everybody you just You want it? Yeah, you know you even if they annoy you sometimes It's like that thing though, isn't it when they go to bed and then you look at photos of yeah Margot's got a thing at the moment where she goes to bed, but she knows Now now which toilet trained and all that stuff toilet trains that we do a dog Now, we're toilet trained and all that stuff. Toilet trained? Is that what you do with dogs? Toilet trained? Is it? Posse trained! Posse trained!

Thank you. She's not a dog. But now she knows, she's still sleeping in her nappy because she's not dry through the night yet. Yeah, yeah. But now she knows to take it off at night time. So then she goes, Daddy! I need a poo! So I have to.

And it's always me because she's a daddy's girl. So I have to go upstairs. She doesn't need the toilet at all. She just wants me. She wants... So she's learned, it's quite manipulative because she's learned to take a nappy off and then just go right what you gonna do about it now because You don't do anything Oh, it's honestly when they start having that independence with their nappies. I'm like this is

Dad Danny Danny did not do a dirty protest Cooper did right? There was one night where he decided to take his nappy off and he did a shit. In the bed? Yeah, in bed. It's low. And it was just, I was like, thank God I'd come in at a certain point because what if he'd have put it in his eyes? Yeah, it smears. He's been blind. It gets around places. It really does, yeah. Margot did this recently where she wasn't doing it to be, because this is before she learned to sort of take the nappy off and manipulate a bit. Right. So she'd managed to take her nappy off anyway and then just did it and she'd be laying in it for a bit. And so it was a shower job and a bed sheet change.

They do get to a point though where they don't like that feeling. No, she doesn't like it now. Yeah, totally. Oh, okay, good. Yeah, this was maybe, we were just at the beginning of potty training. Yeah. So I think she understood to take her nappy off

when she needs to go, but hadn't really thought the consequences of going just straight onto the bed. Yeah, when they just... I had heard so many stories about people who let their kids roam around without their nappies on and found a poo a few days later, around the back of the sofa. There was one on our doormat for a while. I was like, where did that just come from?

Are you sure it was a Margo poo, not a? But it was the right size and shape. Okay, it was a human poo. Oh God, I once stepped in poo when I just had Cooper in the car and it went everywhere. Was it his? No, no, it was a dog poo.

But I had him there and I was trying to clean up this dog poo and I think I was on the motorway and I had to come off. It was an absolute disaster. I'd never, and I was trying to clean up this dog poo and I think I was on the motorway and I had to come off, it was an absolute disaster. I'd never, and he was in the back going, mommy it smells really bad. I'm like, sorry darling, I don't know what to do about this situation.

It's the vomiting for me though, I can't do kids and vomit. I just- I don't mind it when they're really little and it's just milk. Oh milk, milk vomit, fine. Again, now that both of them are- Eating. Eating, it's like solids, it comes up the way it goes out, the way. Oh milk, milk vomit. Again now that both of them are eating it's like solids

it comes up the way it goes down, goes down. Yeah it's proper sick. Yeah. There's a point where it becomes proper sick and proper poo. Yeah. And it's like oh. And Margot's got really curly hair as well and it just gets stark and congealed. Jesse's easier because it's sort of just. He fine and blonde. Yeah, it just prints him down. Yeah, she's fine. But Margot, you have to like pick it out. Do you have an insatiable fascination with the paranormal? Brace yourself for the supernatural world is about to reveal all of its secrets on the Paranormal Activity podcast.

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Visit wealthsimple.com slash possibilities. built for possibilities. Visit wealthsimple.com slash possibilities. I've got a few listens questions. Go on. Are you game? Yeah. Okay, right. Sonia, this is actually quite a cool question. Right. If you could travel in time, where would you go and why? Is traveling time a part of my life or anywhere? Well, let's just go with anywhere. I mean, I'd love to see dinosaurs. Is that really boring answer? No, I mean, I wouldn't because I'd be too scared. I'd love to, like, I really want to go on a paleontological dig one day. Would you?

Yeah, my sister and I were talking about it because we're both really into dinosaurs. And you can actually pay to go on as a holiday. Can you? Yeah, but the chances of you finding anything are really slim. because they're both like really into dinosaurs and you can actually pay to go on like as a holiday. Can you? Yeah, but the chances of you finding anything are really slim and you are just sort of using a paintbrush to sort of. If you find something,

do you have to like hand it over to them? I don't know, I guess you get to name it what you want it to be called. It's the gym bone. Yeah. This. Yeah, and also the chance of finding anything because everyone goes, oh my God,

you just find like a whole dinosaur. You'd find a fragment of a jawbone or something. Yeah, like a tiny fossil yeah so I don't think the juice would be worth the squeeze but I like the idea of it that's quite a good one though and what about in your in your life back to a time in your life back to time my life have you ever seen the film about time and he travels back in time before his kids were born but then when he goes back to regular time they're different kids because he's on a different timeline so different sperm-mates

All I was going to say to you then was burn his watch! I was like no I'm not basking in the wrong tree there So I would be really reluctant to go to a time before my kids were born which only gives me a year So I don't know if I would I'm also really conscious like this sounds I don't want to give like a really wank answer to this question, but I'm conscious of like not living in the past, in my past. I'd love to go see dinosaurs, but I want to think forward and like be more appreciative of now and no regrets and all that stuff and also for the first six months of Jesse's life he was really sick so it only takes me to six months back. Yeah. Nothing's happened that time. No, just time no just life just parenting life right this is an interesting

question I don't like this question okay I'm gonna ask you it and see what your actual thought of this question even is how do you stay and they've used the word so skinny I first of all don't like the word skinny because I don't think I don't know I just I just don't like that word skinny because I don't think I don't know. I just I just don't like that word I would say you are a slim man, but you I mean you post about your your gym That's what I wanted to do I look like I was staring apart I was trying to do a bicep curl Oh, clearly I don't go to the gym enough do I? You know you're obviously muscular you should we can see that on Instagram. So what how do you how do I stay in shape? Yeah?

That should be what the question is right? Yeah, I mean language barrier or may or may be hate. I've no idea I'm gonna I'm gonna bear with language barrier. I just eat well, do you know what? I'm quite fortunate that I can eat I can get away with more than most because I've got speed metabolism and also I think I Forget to eat most of the day. Do you? I get so distracted and again this I think this goes back to my solitude being my friend and that I'm really happy on my own space at my own time. I love busying myself and as a result like I can get stuck into something and I won't come up for air for hours and I go oh my god I'm starving. So I tend not to eat and this is not is not health advice. It's the worst advice. I can possibly give you. I don't eat much during the day

I forget well you're maybe so you're without realizing you're doing I'm basically yeah I reckon I'm I my calorie intake is not as high as I think it is I go hours without eating and then I get starving and I just demolish food But I work out the gym is my happy place because I'm not dad, I'm not husband, I'm not working, I'm just there to get sweaty. So I work out four, five days a week. Yeah. Do you ever find like it gives you room to think as well?

Yeah, exactly, I got my music playing in my ear, I don't have to talk to another person. In fact, it really annoys me when other people talk to me when I'm in there. I'm like, can you not? Yeah. This is my time. In a way, the way my body looks is almost a byproduct of the fact that I

make the most of the time where I get to not have to do anything else for anybody else. You know what I mean? It's my time for me and it just so happens to come with abs. Yeah, well that's marvellous. I always have a bit more on me time. And then I might get some abs. So, how, right, this is an interesting question. How do you express your emotions and feelings through fashion? Like, you're very into your fashion. Yeah.

Do, does your emotion come out in your fashion? Erm, yeah, I guess so. I always think that fashion and style and the way you dress is really, I think a lot of people kind of Minimize the importance, but actually it's the first way you get to show who you are to people, right? It's something you get to do, it's creative every single day because you have to get dressed and you get to Express yourself and show a little bit of something about you all the time. Yeah, because you do have a style. You're one person that I follow on

Instagram that I would say has a style. Yeah I dress the same-ish. No not the same-ish just it's very gym. It's very you the way you dress. I feel like you... You even said today you look nice. I was like I just don't know. You just look like what I normally wear. It's nice, it's smart, it's smart. Yeah, so I think it's, since there have been clothes, people have dressed, if you look back through archaeological times, people have always made effort in order to express who they are. So I think it's fundamentally one of the easiest ways

to give a little bit about you. Yeah, no, I know what you mean. I always envy the girls that are like in really bright colours and clashing prints. I'm like, I would like to do that. I just. Yeah, I don't do that. I just don't.

I sometimes think to myself, I look so in my wardrobes today, and I was like, wow, I'm a beige dresser. I realise how little colour I've got. So you've got green on today. I've got a bit of green on today. Well she doesn't know what to do though does she, because she's not an autumn girl so basically I'm stuck in a transition at the moment of I've just come back off holiday and I'm fed up because

it's raining. Yeah it's tough though to be away and like living a wonderful life in like the sunshine coming home to this. Yeah and I was and I was the daughter when I was away because I went with my mum and my sister. So I was the little girl. I was the baby, and I am the baby. I'm the little sister. So I went into full blown child mode when I was away and I do the same thing when I go home.

I'm a terrible princess. That is hilarious. I can see it though. I do. I definitely give princess vibes. It's mum and dad's fault. And going back, we touched on this a little bit, but actually more so with your mental health. Have you ever worried that your children might...

That's my biggest concern. Is it really? Yeah, it is my biggest concern, which is ridiculous because I've got my own shit going on. But my biggest concern is that my children will somehow inherit mine and also Sarah's anxiety. There is a genetic component to a lot of mental health things, but it's one of those things that will only,

the genetic component, but it's often only expressed under certain environmental triggers. So I'm really conscious of the way I am around my children. I try not to be on my phone loads because they are a source of anxiety for everybody of the way I am around my children. I try not to be on my phone loads because they are a source of anxiety for everybody and I don't want to lead by example. But also I try not to rush them everywhere.

One of the biggest indicators of children feeling anxious is when their parents are going, come on, come on, come on. Like, obviously there are times where you need to get out the door or you're gonna be late, but if it's just the park or something, it doesn't matter if we never reach the park it's not that the park isn't the point the point is getting them out and having fun and giving them your time so I'm really conscious and I'll always say to Sarah

where's the fire yeah because she falls into the trap because I'm really conscious of it and Sarah doesn't want to do it don't get me wrong but she's less conscious is one of my biggest concerns of moving at a million miles an hour and I'm like actually nothing is that important. We've got nowhere to be that is so important that it's worth adding pressure to a three-year-old and a one-year-old. And they shouldn't understand pressure yet, really.

No, I completely agree. And so my biggest worry, and in fact, it's something I'm, it's sourced a lot of creativity in me me and it's something I'm working on at the moment in like a different capacity Is cryptic one of my biggest concerns when I found out that Sarah was pregnant is like, oh my god What if I my child my child matter, you know gets Anxious and spends their time why because the thing about anxiety is it's such a waste of time. It really is Yeah, did you cyclical thoughts thinking just think going around in circles about a possibility that might not have and spends their time worrying. Because the thing about anxiety is it's such a waste of time. It really is, yeah. Because you cyclical thoughts,

thinking, just going around in circles about a possibility that might not happen. So you worry twice, right? Right, and if it does happen, then you're forced into action. Yeah, and I always remember that when I am worrying. And you know, it's so interesting, because I talk in therapy, because Cooper's a worrier. And I always say to my therapist,

God, has he learned this from me? I mean, he can only have learned it from me, to be honest. Danny's not. So I do beat myself up about that, because he does have like... But he's also out in the real world now, and it's not just you.

Like, it's more difficult to be a kid than it ever has been. There is more pressure all over. And so I think it's our job as parents to try to, at least at home, to minimize that. To not. I do definitely think I'm gonna be less rushy because my problem is if I don't tell everyone to get out of the house Nobody is going to leave the house because Danny, Mr. ADHD Farts about for seven hours. I'm like you don't need to change your outfit 20 times and your hair looks fine

Right. We're going to the park. Not the outfit and the hair but that is me, I'm either doing 7 things at once or nothing at all. And if I'm doing nothing at all it's not because I'm being lazy, it's because my brain's on fire. I'm exactly the same. I don't understand what a quiet mind is, I never have. And so Sarah's like, Jim, come on!

And I'm like, shit sorry sorry, because I'm busy thinking, but I'm often just sort of stationary. Yeah, oh, same. My brain goes, argh. It's like it paralyzes you. Yeah. Do you find? Totally.

Or I'm just, or I'm doing 18 things. Yeah. Do you find you start one task and then you move on to the other because you see that while you're doing? The other day I got the laundry out of the machine, right, and I was going, oh, I better do that. And I made a little ironing pile and then I saw that the plants needed watering so I started watering the plants. And then I got the ironing board out and then I went upstairs and I had to write an email

and I came downstairs and I was like, shit I've still only half emptied the washing machine. You've done no job. I haven't ever finished any of the one jobs. 100% I'm exactly the same. Sarah got home and she was like, well the ironing board's out, the washing machine's half empty, you've got a pile of screw up clothes on the floor for some reason and you didn't even write the email you were gonna do.

And I was like, hello. I'm trying to do it all but I can't do it all. We've been talking for a long time. Sorry. No, I mean this is the thing, I think this is why we are friends because we don't stop, do we? It's been so good having you on.

I feel like I've not even touched the surface. Sorry. There's so much more. Welcome back for gym part two. We're gonna talk more about little gym. But thank you. No, thank you for having me. That was wonderful.

Just to wrap up, do you have any like, little closing word of advice, maybe for dads, because we don't have many of those. I can't answer this a lot, you know, and I'm really reluctant to give advice. Partly because we live on the internet, right, and every fucker in the world has ill-advised information to give you. That's your advice. Yeah, but also like, you'll work it out. Like if you need advice about a specific thing like food or sleep or whatever, then ask someone who you know who's gone through that, right?

But if it's just general parenting advice, I don't want every kid's different. I do Margot different to Jessie, you know, and I'm sure you do Cooper different to how I do Margot and Jessie. Potentially, yeah, you never know. And so I'm really reluctant because there's so much information out there. And all you end up doing is feeling overwhelmed by every other parent who's doing a really good job in quotation marks Well, actually I still yell at Margo even though we get on really really well. I still Do things that I think oh, I know regret like last night Margo's playing around and I shouted at her and immediately

Regretted it. Yeah, I felt like anhole all night. Have you ever accidentally hurt them? Like when you're in play fighting or something? Oh God, there's nothing worse is there? I was playing a game with her and I scratched her face like two days ago and I was like, Oh my God, Margot, I'm so sorry. I put Cooper in the eye and he was like, Mummy, why did you do that?

I was like, I didn't mean to. It was an accident. She burst into tears, but then she cuddled me. I was like, okay, don't blame me. Oh, because you want to cry, don't you? Oh, I was. I inflicted pain on my child. I was like, what, don't blame me. Oh, because you wanna cry, don't you? Because you're just like, I inflicted pain on my child. I was like, what if she thinks I did it on purpose?

Yeah, yeah. So my advice is sort of like, It's the absence of advice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a really good bit of advice. If you need help with a thing, then find someone who knows the thing. Otherwise, just don't read, look at social media less,

read the fear-mongering less Just enjoy being present with the kid. Yeah be present. Yeah, Jesus We always do a bit of that don't we and but Jim it's been lovely having you on. Thank you I feel like I've wasted a lot of time with waffling. No, I love a waffle and it wasn't waffle. It was good waffle I love a waffle and it wasn't waffle it was good waffle. Thank you. I love a bit of good waffle. So thank you. My pleasure thank you. That's a wrap of this episode of Mums the Word. A huge thank you to Jim Chapman for joining us and for sharing his insights on parenting from a dad's perspective and for being so incredibly open about his own childhood. We hope you guys found it as enlightening and as relatable as we did.

Stay tuned for more exciting episodes this season where we'll continue diving into the realities of parenting. Don't forget to leave us a review, follow us on social at mumsofword and scorepod and subscribe to our brand new YouTube channel. Remember to keep sending in your own parenting stories, we can't wait to hear them. Until next time, I'm Georgia Jones and this is Mums The Word and we'll be back with another episode, same time, same place, next week.