Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - OLIVIA BOWEN: Navigating the Loss of a Twin Mid-Pregnancy

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

In this deeply personal episode of Mum’s The Word, Kelsey Parker is joined by the courageous Olivia Bowen in her first podcast interview since revealing the heartbreaking loss of one of her twins mid-pregnancy.Olivia opens up about discovering the devastating news, how she and Alex coped with the sudden reality, and why she felt compelled to share her story publicly.Together, they explore the emotional complexities of pregnancy loss, the importance of speaking openly about difficult experiences, and the resilience that shines through even in the face of unimaginable grief.This is an honest and uplifting conversation that offers support, understanding, and hope to anyone who has faced their own challenges on the path to parenthood.A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAS powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. We call them clicks at your world tonight. It's the little word we use when someone from our team reads over and approves a story. Each one gets carefully checked and clicked more than once to make sure you always get the facts. I'm Susan Bonner. I'm Tom Harrington. And I'm Stephanie Scanderis.

Together we bring you the day's news and help you understand it with a process you can trust. Your world tonight from CBC News. Find and follow us wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. podcast everywhere. Acast.com.

Welcome back to Mums the Word. I'm your host, Kelsey Parker. Today, I'm joined by the amazing Olivia Bowen. We chat about her heartbreaking news about losing one of her twins during pregnancy on this Mums the Word podcast exclusive interview. So grab a cuppa, get comfy, and let's jump into a brand new episode of Mums the Word. So I am joined by Olivia today. Thank you for joining me. Hello darling. And well, I like holding space for people.

So I feel like this is my time to hold space for you. And let's talk. Yeah no I appreciate this has come at a really good time actually I am so emotional today like there's been a lot going on obviously like yeah it's been a weekend isn't it yeah it's been I found out what we were having at the weekend as well at the same time that all the stuff come out about the twins so it was like a double whammy of like, again, like the most happiest emotion, but then all of that coming out. And just, I was so scared about the reaction

because sometimes you don't think that people are gonna understand why you spoke about it. Do you know what I mean? When you're in the public eye and you go to a magazine, I was like, people are gonna think that I'm being paid to do this or that like I'm doing it for me. But it was just a decision that I made as soon as I sort of felt like I had to speak about this because when I went through it which I'll go through it in a sec I just felt so lonely and you want to talk about it yeah

and no it's really nice that I'm here with you now I do think that my mum always says a problem shared is a problem hard and I'm that person that I've told everyone. Yeah, I'm like that I cannot I cannot keep anything in but this so from the beginning we Expecting one baby like I didn't even think twins were in my family Yeah, I didn't know I was like mum you could have probably told me that this could happen Yeah, but they are in our family and we went to the first scan at six weeks, so pretty early. And I remember- What made you go for a six week scan?

I was just anxious human. Such an anxious human being. Are you? I'm like, as soon as I, we found out at three and a half weeks that I was pregnant. I was waiting for the moment to find out. We did joke before we started recording this

and I was like, you know, straight away, it went in. I said this about April night, We started recording this and I was like, you knew straight away that it went in. I said this about Abel though. I went on Chia Vanna's podcast and I told her, I was like, when we tried for Abel, I swear I knew the minute we'd finished that I knew. My mum said, you're not at a different level like your generation. She's like, you've all got these apps and you all know now. And I'm like, yeah, we do Know what's going on. Yeah, so we I'm just like I just I just needed to know like I very much need answers to everything I'm such an anxious person. I need to know why things happen and that's why you always been an anxious person

Yeah, like ever since I can remember really school I've suffered like with depression and anxiety from a young age, like 11, 12 probably, as I turned into a teenager really. Hormones. Hormones. They've never let me. Hormones kick in. It is though. It's like them hormones kick in

and you just actually don't know how to function. No, and that, I think my mum's suffered, my grandma, my aunt, so I feel like it's just in our family. So that's always kind of been how I am. So that didn't shock me. So we went to this scan like super early and we even had a mate in the back come with us

because we were like, oh, it'll be normal, it'll be fine, like the scan will be fine. So he was in the back. Alex was getting ready to go out for a pint after. Oh, course he was. So we've left our friend Ben in the car, gone into the scan. I've sat down, as, and I've sat down.

As soon as I've sat down, I just felt something, like I felt a weird energy. And as soon as you put the, whatever the little thing is that they put on your stomach, you could see two sacks, you could see two babies. And I'm not going to lie, my initial reaction was, oh shit, what the hell are we going to do? And I was like, there's two. I was like, Alex, there's two. There's two in there, there's two, there's two. There's two!

And I think he was sitting there like, well, I didn't even know what he was looking at. He had no clue. And she was like, yeah, there's two babies in there. One was slightly smaller than the other. But it wasn't anything that was like a huge concern. So from the... But it was very early, very, very early.

Six weeks is so early, like, you could barely see the heartbeats. You could see them, but they're so so tiny aren't they? So then we went away, went to old Ben in the back of the car. He was like, oh, it's part of the journey with us. And I immediately from that point, I just felt so sick with worry. I think I've known a couple of like my close friends

have miscarriages and this is so common, like one in four women have miscarriages and it is so common. I think I started to really panic about it and I was like, God, I'm worried about keeping one baby alive, let alone two babies in my belly. I don't think I can do it. I really spiraled, but Alex was just so positive

and I think that's why it just got so emotional because I just constantly think of how positive Alex was about the fact that we could handle twins. And I was like, no, we absolutely can't. This is gonna be crazy. Like three kids, I just couldn't even imagine. But he was so positive. He like just made me really excited.

And we started to plan everything. As you do, we told people we were having twins. We even went car shopping to see like how we'd fit the car seats in, we were like thinking of girl and boy names and thinking oh my god I've got to have two names, it just become a thing, like the new what our lives were going to be and we were creating this next life that we were having with these two new babies. So then we went back at eight weeks for a scan just to double check because one was a little bit smaller and I from the minute we got in the car I felt like something was wrong

I just it's weird isn't it how you just have that then the feeling yeah you have a feeling like you have it's that mom instinct yeah and I had a friend on who was actually pregnant with triplets and she said she did just know. Oh my god. She just said I just knew. And did she have all three of those? Yeah she's got triplets. She just said I just knew within me. Something was happening.

That something wasn't normal, but I guess it's not normal because it's three. I mean like your hormones, that would be triple the hormones. Like there is so many like, it's completely's completely double tripled however many you're having but yeah I just kind of knew I kind of knew and I it's I feel so it's so hard to talk about I feel so guilty but I have to say it I felt like I didn't want twins like I felt like I wasn't gonna handle it and I didn't feel like I was enough to handle it or have it so I feel like it was taken from me because I wasn't ready for it and I didn't feel like I was enough to handle it or have it. So I feel like it was taken from me because I wasn't ready for it.

And I wasn't the person to do it. And I feel like I caused it to myself because I told myself I couldn't do it. So like we went to this scan and one didn't have a heart. As soon as you got it, you could see like, it was so tiny compared to the other one. But she's there telling me that we've got this like healthy little baby that's thriving and then she's like,

this one's dead. You've got one baby that isn't alive and you've got one, and I don't even know how you're gonna fathom that. Like am I meant to be happy? Am I meant to be sad? Am I like, I feel so guilty. I said I couldn't do it. So now is that why we've not got it?

And did I walk too much? Did I drink too much water? I couldn't do it so now is that why we've not got it and did I walk too much did I drink too much water did I not want it enough like all these sudden questions just like literally came down like pouring rain. I think what's really difficult is that we do know so much now that you did go for the six week. Exactly. Because I actually went for when I was pregnant with Bodie I went for an eight or nine week and there was another sack there with Bodie really was there something still it was a little baby So yeah, they were actually really blase with me. It's weird. She was like, oh, yeah, there's there was two sacks They're like basically a bit like oh well that could have bit that could have been cuz it that and that was I was a bit Like I think we were pregnant with twins Tom and then. But no one's ever confirmed that to you?

No, she pretty much did say that but she was just like, oh yeah but look there's a heartbeat on this one and then that was it, it was sort of like brushed over and I was like, oh okay and then again like you're saying you've got one baby that's healthy and you're like oh. You're trying to concentrate on it. Yeah. concentrated on it. Yeah, as well then but you feel I just felt guilt so much guilt, but It is such a weird thing to navigate because it like you said it was so early Yeah, but the difficulty with it's called vanishing twin syndrome. Yeah, my difficulty with that is that I didn't bleed I didn't have any pain. I didn't know there was nothing to show me that that was gonna happen And then from your body just a yeah, which is beautiful. Like now I like the baby has gone. Maybe they're absorbed. Yeah, together. Yeah, apparently. I was

doing some research on it. Apparently, they absorb into your body, but the other twin can also absorb some of the cells from the twin that passed. So the baby that I have, will hopefully have some of the DNA of their twin that they lost. So there's a lot if you look into it and you can sort of stomach that, which at first I could and I didn't like that. I was like, I'd rather it come out. I just couldn't the thought of it going into, I don't know, it felt weird to me. But now- Also you just think how the human body is crazy and that happens and you're like, how?

Yeah, one minute was there and then it when? And then it kept going towards the side of the sack and then it just disappeared. And then there's just an empty sack. But every time we went to check up on the healthy baby, because we had to go for extra scans, you'd see the other baby. So every single time you went to the NHS you would be reminded of it every single time

and it would just hurt every single time. But it is, it happened like two months ago now. So I can process it a lot better when it happened at the time, I literally just went into full on like depression mode. I did not get out of bed. I did not brush my teeth. I didn't brush my hair. I didn't want to shower. I didn't want wanna talk. It just floored me. But I think it floored you because you have felt that you put something out to the universe. Yeah, I definitely blame myself. I don't think you can blame yourself.

I shouldn't blame, I know I shouldn't blame myself. I know it's not my fault, but I think I just always blame myself a little bit because I do for everything. I'm one of those people. I think, you're gonna live your own life though, you look at everything and you go, what if this happened, what if that, but it's the now and you're in the now and you can only think about today and what is happening

today. And you do because I'm so freaking lucky to have this little baby that is still in there, I have to be strong for that, Like you have to enjoy that. But then also I think you do then have to grieve what was, could have been. Yeah. And that you saw that there was two. So I think you have to grieve that process. This is why like I wanted to talk about it and do the interview because it was like keeping them alive

for me. Yeah. And actually if I hadn't have told the world or whatever I feel like I was hiding it and I feel like I was making it seem shameful when it's not it should be they should be celebrated and they should be remembered and I wanted to honor the baby that I lost not hide it from the world and I think as well if anyone is going through this that you can these stories honestly that I've had in my messages, I did not realize how many, even you've just said,

do you know what I mean? I didn't even realize how many women go through this. I don't think you do though, and I've never really spoken about it because I was just a bit like. Blindsided. Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

We call them clicks at Your World Tonight. It's the little word we use when someone from our team reads over and approves a story. Each one gets carefully checked and clicked more than once to make sure you always get the facts. I'm Susan Bonner. I'm Tom Harrington. And I'm Stephanie Scanderis. Together, we bring you the day's news and help you understand it with a process

you can trust. Your world tonight from CBC News. Find and follow us wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. everywhere. Acast.com. Yeah, blindsided and you're like, is that a thing? Is it not a thing? Then obviously I had so much that happened with my health situation. With both carrying the baby and whatever else that... Because people even say to me now, I've seen 23 weeks, and people were like, oh, you're really small. Was you that small with the other two and I was like the other two are complete in a blur like

I don't even remember. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. I've just now got a 5 and a 40 year old that lives with me. They just appear. Like when did that happen? It was all these children. So I was like looking back through pictures last night, but I think as a woman being pregnant you just the questions are like endless. Oh no. And then obviously people are going, do you know what happened?

Do you know what happened? Do you know what happened? My dad, we had the gender reveal at the weekend. My dad, as soon as my dad saw me, he was like, oh, you got bigger than you. I was like, cheers dad. But that's just what they say, isn't it? I know I've always been like,

don't comment on people's bumps, don't say this, don't say that. But my dad's like, probably old school, he's like, yeah, you're huge That I put stone on before I even got to 12 weeks. I was like cheers Do you feel like the second and third prince you showed quicker or did you not have that? I'm 23 weeks and I basically look like I've got a role You look so good. I'm so bloated mine's up here. It's horrible. I can't breathe already It is the breathing even mine's not even high up and I'm like, can I breathe? I was good. I was saying to myself go to the gym like stay in the gym be reactive and I have not gone in

The gym I can't okay. I have gone back to the gym. Have you I've gone back to the gym I've probably not been to the gym for about a year, but you've gone back now I didn't know who I was when I bought it Sorry you look like you're in a picture Did you keep your membership for all that time? Yeah obviously Good you do didn't you? I'm not going to the gym I'm going there for swimming lessons with the kids

But oh my god they're opening a David Lloyd one actually and that's got like a pool and a sauna I'm like yeah I'm going to the gym Treat yourself to treat yourself but I have actually gone back because I actually finally now I only feel right yeah but I suppose it's a good time as well and actually it's such a good stress reliever to be fair when you do feel better don't you you don't you do feel better you do feel better well that was worth it why have I not dragged myself here before you put it off so much that I put it I just don't want to go and then when I'm there I feel so much better.

Like the endorphins, it's true, the endorphins do work their magic but I can't get there. I can't upstairs. I'm not actually to the teachers. I've got my mojo back. I'm here. Hi, I'm here. I'm alive. It is me.

I am back. Just had a quick break. But yeah, I think it's so great that you're actually having this conversation because I think it's normalizing it for people. The reaction that I've had is exactly why I wanted to do it. Like I said before I wanted to honor the baby but also I wanted other women to not feel as alone as I did. I literally felt like the loneliest person in the planet. Even though deep down I knew other women go through it, you just, you think that you're the only one

to ever experience it. What was Alex's reaction? Alex was very upset initially. Like as soon as we found out he could not stop crying. He won't mind me saying he's like a very openly emotional person and he could not stop crying. The whole day that we'd found out he was more emotional than I was I was kind of very numb and sort of didn't say much and didn't cry yeah probably more

in shock but he is the kind of person to really react to something really get emotional really speak about it and then never speak about it again because he does he's talking he processes yeah and then he's like I've done Because he does his talking, he processes, and then he's like, I've done with that. And he doesn't need answers how I need answers. Like I need every little- You're a why what. Yeah, I need every little question answered

whereas he's quite happy to sort of work through it, put it in a box and then not touch it again. But I think that's because it really did traumatize him. It really did upset him and actually, I'm really proud of him for speaking about it as well and he's open about it because I think that's going to help him so much without him realizing it and I don't think men in general are as toward talking about things as much as women can be and I'm really hoping that he continues to just keep that conversation flowing so that other dads, because it does affect the mum and the dad, obviously it affects the mum differently because it's

in your body, but it affects the dad too. I do think it's hard for men. I think it's really hard. I think any baby lost, child lost for a man is so hard. They're not as connected and I feel like sometimes that makes them feel like they don't deserve to feel as upset as you, but he does and he was. Well he created with you. You created together. We did. That was us. You made love and you created a baby. There is the science there but no he's doing really well speaking about it and after our we had a little like close gender reveal with the family and friends

at the weekend, it's a girl. Oh, you're having a slump? It's a girl! I know. I've been so emotional about that as well because I just feel so grateful because we've got a little boy and I have to say I've always wanted a little girl. Like you can't say that you didn't want one as well. You naturally do gravitate towards having a girl

if you've already got a boy. But equally I was like, if my little boy had a best friend that was like his little brother, I would love that too. But finding out we're having a girl, Alex was just desperate to have a little girl too. He wants her to be like daddy's girl. He's saying that now, wait until she's 18. Exactly. Why didn't we have a boy? He was like, she's not going out till daddy's girl. He's saying that now wait until she's 18

He was like she's not going out till she's 40 I was like you're gonna you're gonna have a bit of a fight on your hands, especially if she's anything like me It was really funny as well We was in um the house and there was just some carnage going on a boy is a bit like he's just crazy And alex and I think I don't know what I was doing But he was like there is some attitude in this house. And I was like, you wait. You wait for the girls attitude. It's the sass. Girls are so sassy.

How old is your girl? Five. Is it sass central? Oh, yeah. So we had a dance comp. So I've got a performing arts school. So we do dance competitions. And last Monday, she threw the biggest fit you've ever seen

because she didn't want to sing her song. She's like, I want to change the song. I said, the competition's in like a week's time. The confidence though. Like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like, I'm telling you now, I'm not singing that song. So I was like, okay, let's change the song.

I said, bearing in mind, I've got to find you a backing track and cut the new music. You can do that mum, let's change the song. I said, bear in mind I've got to find you a backing track and cut the new music You can do that mum, that's fine So she went and done the competition yesterday. She won. Did she? She won the competition And I've just got a message through today to say she was the highest scoring performer of the day. Oh my goodness She's five

That is unreal. But, Eva, it's the fact that. Oh my god, congratulations. Yeah, but look at that. She's actually just might as well put her middle finger up at me. And you've got to, I changed the song. And I won that one, didn't you? And I won the whole competition with the song. Better mind she's competing against 16 year olds. You're gonna have to listen to everything she says now. Like she's like right, we're doing this, this, and this. I'm not gonna tell her. I'm not telling her that she's got the highest score of the day. We'll keep that quiet for a little bit. We'll keep that quiet. She's got a maddy trophy. this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this I think you just have to let them have their like, nah, like it was literally, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

You don't wanna dial it down though. I feel like that, I would rather my child, I know it's more difficult, but I'd rather my child be confident, loud, than I would be worried if they were in their shell, because Alex and I are not people that are in our shells. I wouldn't know what to do if I had a child who was really quiet.

Me neither, we're loud people. Yes, this is what happens. I would be like, Why are you not talking? I find it so hard. No, and I know obviously every kid is different, but I feel like, obviously as a parent, you do just sort of give them what you are. And we are loud people, we are social people.

So equally Abel is now as crazy as we are. And I think as well with our jobs, they then have to witness what you're doing. Oh my God, Abel literally got the camera, my phone the other day, he put his arm, he went, mum come here, mummy come here, put his arm around me and went and then just pouted and like selfie, he's two and a half. I was like oh god, because he's watching you. It's me, it's his dad pouting, it's not me.

Blame Alex. He's the pouter. Oh so you're having a girl. Yeah so we're having a girl. Yeah, so we're having a girl. I can't remember what the start of the story was, but yeah. Don't worry, I've got that thing within me that I can just get people off the conversation. We've got baby brain as well in this room, like twice.

It's like a baby room. But yeah, we're super happy and it was just a super emotional day, like close friends and family, but- How did you actually do it? So we found out that it was a girl on the Thursday and we had the party on the Saturday So we already knew because like I said, I have such bad anxiety and I have really bad social anxiety So I couldn't physically wait until everyone was there waiting to watch my face

I just felt like that was too much pressure. So we went to the scan on Thursday. What you found out and then you surprised everyone else. Yeah, me and Alex went. We didn't find out there. We got the guy to put pink or blue Teddy in a box. We drove the box to Abel's nursery, picked Abel up, went into the cafe next door and had him open it. I am so glad that we did it that way round. That's

more how me and Alex are. We wanted our private moment with Abel. I wanted Abel to be involved. So we've got a video of him opening it. It literally looks like I've opened a snake in a box because I'm like, what? I really freak out. It was like, what, what? But no, it was such a nice like just private moment. And then we had the party on the Saturday to tell friends and family which was amazing their reactions were just so cute yeah. How was your family like your mum and your dad taken the twin news? What's their advice and what have they said? My dad had a son who was a twin and he lost the other twin in the womb at about 32 weeks So he went through it before me. He's already been through it. So I think when I told him that we were having twins

He was quite obviously he was quite scared for me because he'd only had a bad experience So he was being quite quiet about it. I think because I don't think he ever fully processed that yeah I think going me going through it then he had to relive what he went through but me and my dad was so close so my dad's like my best mate he is he is just as meant I must get it from him he's mad and like he loves a drink we always go out together like we party together I just adore him so he was there for me, but in a quiet way. Like he wasn't forthcoming with any words really. He was just there and I know he was there.

My mom, I think my mom struggled cause she just worries. She's a warrior. She's a warrior. That's where I get it from. She was really upset, but just never wanted to say anything. Cause she never wanted to trigger me.

Like she's so sweet, bless her. She will always put my feelings before hers and she just didn't want to bring it up or say anything or because she didn't want me to then sort of crumble. But I remember one morning she looks after Abel twice a week and she came over and I just broke down like in, I just literally fell on the floor in tears broke down to her and she was there and she said all the right things and she was just like go to therapy because she knows that's the only way that I can ever really work things out so she just sent me to therapy so she was like you need to talk about this you need to process your feelings like

everything you're going through is completely normal You're allowed to feel what you're feeling and I get why you feel guilty like she just validated Everything that I felt which is exactly what you want your mom to do You want to be validated don't you sometimes you just want someone to go. Yeah, that's okay But you feel like that the my therapist who i've had for years She is the one that I think changed the way I looked at it. And she dealt with a lot of my anxiety before and she just knows, they just know how to word things, don't they? And she just gave me some such valuable information about accepting emotions when you have them. Like I'm kind of, I don't want bad emotions but they're part of life and you have to experience bad emotion,

otherwise you can't experience the happy ones and she said You've got to let yourself just have these emotions and they can coexist at the same time You're allowed to feel sad and you're allowed to feel guilty But you're also allowed to feel happy and excited about the baby. You don't have to just feel one at a time You're gonna feel all of these emotions at once and you're allowed to do that And I don't think I was allowing myself that grace. Well that is when we speak about grief and loss that they say that there's the five emotions but you can feel all of their emotions at the same time. And how much of a roller coaster is that?

It is a roller coaster and you have to try and process which is really hard but especially I think if you've got you know you've got Abel as well then you can't just be sat around moping because he needs you. And then there's the excitement that you're having another baby. You are having another baby. You're having a little girl. Yeah, I still feel guilty about that,

but I also am now trying to sort of process that upset and just think I'm living for the other twin for her as well. Like I'm living for them both, but I've only got one of them. Do you know what I don't want to be sad. And I don't think anyone else around me wants to be sad and I feel like we just have to like move forward but not forget. But it's just a hard, it's just hard to process in your brain. It's really hard to process. And I think that's where you sometimes have to find what helps

you. Like I became so spiritual and I believe in the soul. Yeah, and the soul picks its mouth and your Picture. Yeah, so maybe you're just gonna have a really strong personality In your daughter, which I'm quite scared for you. I Do think that she's been sent to test me? I do think she's been sent to test me to be fair. Cause she's put you through the test already. She's like, Oh, have a bit of this, have a bit of that and you wait. No, I agree. I really I believe that too.

And I think it's a really nice thing to have that to lean on. Literally yesterday I was upstairs and walked past the baby's room and it looked really, really sunny in there because they call the twin that you lost, they call the sunset baby and the twin that you have that survived is called the sunrise yeah and went past the room and it looked so bright in there and I thought I've left the light on so I went in and the sunset literally shining through the window and it just made me so like you know you just need little signs like that you have to look for the signs and I know

sometimes people are it's nothing but if you look for them I swear to God it can literally make your day and I've not I've always been quite sentimental But I think now it's gonna change me and I'm gonna look for it when every time I look at a sunset It's not gonna look the same. No, it's not. So you've got the nursery ready It's bare bones I have a problem, I'm obsessed This is making me a little bit worried I will come round and do yours.

I don't even know what room the baby's going into. I've not even decided that yet. It's a third child, I feel like I'd be the same. I think, like, Abel's was done straight away. This one's taken a little bit longer. When you get to the third child, oh, too late. I think as well, it's like, I have to, like, with Aurelia and Bodie, it's, obviously I don't know what I'm having.

No. So it's- And you're not finding out are you No, not at the moment. I do want a surprise baby. It could all change Any moment yeah, well someone's definitely gonna be upset a reindeer or Bodie's gonna be upset because one wants a girl one was a boy So why don't we just upset them when it comes out the vagina? Yeah, let's just wait for that moment, but then at least they got a cute baby to look at maybe they'll go over it Yeah, well, it's not there. Yeah, just buy him a present from the baby. Have you seen people do that? They're like the baby's bought you this

Quickly went to Smiths when they come out That ain't good enough, didn't want that Well it's that you got me I just feel like I'm just not organized at all No, don't I haven't I haven't actually organized it, but I have been planning it for a while, but the reason for that is because my grandma has recently moved into a home because she's got dementia. And she has this doll's house that I remember going

and picking and building with her when she turned 60. My auntie and my mum took me and her, and we went to this beautiful shop. I don't think it exists anymore, but it had just shelves and shelves of just absolutely gorgeous little bits for Doll's House and she loved this Doll's House. I need to show you. It is incredible. You can't play with it.

It's just absolutely beautiful. Have you seen the Kardashians? That's what they've got, haven't they? That's right. They have like Christmas ones that like one year Chris bought them all this like- I'm like a bargain. With my dolls out. But yes, I and I've where she's moved. I've said that I've wanted it but I was just waiting to find out if we was having a girl or a boy

because if you had a boy probably wouldn't have kept it. But soon as we found out I was like I need to design this room around my grandma's dolls house. So I get to inherit her beautiful dolls house, which I'm just so so happy about so that's why I'm The you cut you cut really high I can't wait able is gonna be the one that probably like crashes through it I Can't wait The girl hate me, but also I just think people go Oh, you know when you've got a boy like the boys are really naughty and blah blah blah. Is it the girls?

Mine's the girl. But is it us that cause that? Is it the mum that causes the girl? Mine is the girl. Like Bodhi's the most chilled laid back kid until he's not. But. Is he really active? Active but he's not like, he's not really like a boisterous boy. No. Yeah Abel's so boisterous like smashes through life. He's a proper little boy. At the moment he's in that stage where he's just

grabbing like everything off the sofa making dens crashing through things literally but I do I do love that about him it's probably my favorite thing but I reckon the girl would be the same. Yeah. I just don't think we've got a hold on it. Because Aurelia literally touched everything. If she had a doll's house that she could not touch, I don't know what I would do. But then I'm a bit like that. Like if you say don't do something, I'm like, I'm not going to do it. You're going to do it?

It's like a red flag. I literally said to Alex this morning and it was this meme saying like, I was about to do something but you just asked me to do it so I'm no longer going to do it anymore. That is me. So what's the when someone tells you to do something? Yeah, so if I'm about to I don't know do this wash and he goes, oh can you do this wash? I'm like, well, I can't fucking do that Tell me not to do it. Yeah, that's what he does. He's like, he's like literally can you not do this or not?

Listen, I'm like right I don't know what that is. It's just pure like I just don't do well. You're just defiant. My manager will tell you that Were you really bad at school? I was academic but I didn't like school at all I would you know when people was I would love to go back for a reunion I'd love to be back at school. Absolutely not do not say we got I hated school did you yeah? I was actually liked in school, but I was still very like confused depressed anxious at school So I would literally be in the toilet crying on my own and people would never know.

I was not well at school, but people didn't know that. So I went- On the surface, you looked like you were just- So I went through school being like, oh, like popular and all that, but I was absolutely not like that. See, now I think that's so interesting because kids can't see that on that level

when you're that age. You don't realize you don't realize and you they think I live you She's great. She's doing whatever As well, they don't yeah I definitely put a lot on and I definitely made myself hardier on the outside because of what I was going through on the inside and I I always had this Weird thing at school. I didn't want to eat in front of anyone so I'd never eat lunch at school I would eat in the morning and I wouldn't eat all day and I couldn't eat in front of people No one ever knew that no one doesn't know that now

But I wouldn't be able to buy food in front of people or eat food in front of people. What was the fear there? I don't know. Mine would be that I actually didn't like the lunches. I need to go back to therapy for that. I need to go back to therapy. No mine was actually school lunch school lunches. They actually give me They're a bit gross though Did you ever have pasta beans and cheese? No What's that just ask of? I feel like Tom would have had that though We had to take Pat lunch in and Pat lunch is actually my worst like nightmare

Which sandwiches? Yeah that actually, opening the lunchbox and the smell made me feel sick I can smell that now I would be like I'm not eating And then I would then be sat outside like the office because I've not eaten my lunch But you don't understand. Can you just get someone to go out and buy me something? They buy it for me. I'll eat it. Yeah, but you wouldn't buy it yourself They didn't so when I was at like junior school, they had no canting Oh, I don't know why but we only had packed lunch and it was awful.

It was in like secondary school that you had like the canteen. When I went to secondary school I put loads of weight on. Loving the canteen. Yeah 7 hours. Give me the chips, give me the beans and cheese. Best kind of food. And then it all went healthy didn't it and you wouldn't allow chocolate bars no more. Jamie, what have you done? Jamie Oliver, coming for you. Yeah, it's so insightful, isn't it, that for teenage kids you'd love to go in now

and say that person that you think is so confident over there actually is struggling behind closed doors. And I think that I've seen bits on social media about how you react to people because you just have no idea what's going on at home. And I think that's one thing I really must instill enable and the girl that we're gonna have is like, just you have no idea what people are going through.

And I wish, like I just wish someone asked me if I was all right when I was a teenager cause I was not all right, but no one ever. How do you feel you would have coped with Instagram and social media back then? If it was how it is now and snapchat remember there was a site where I was like we were 11 literally years ever there was a site where you could comment in a forum anonymously anything on

someone's page and we used to just get like bullied on this page with anonymous comments it like it that was like spring's a bit like Tattle now. Yeah, a little bit like that. Maybe we should not give that name any. Do you ever go on it? On Tattle Night. I did once and then I never went back on it because that is none of my business.

Like what those people say is none of my business. But yeah, we even had that. So I do, obviously Instagram is a lot harder, I think image, it's completely different. But even back then I still struggled with that because I still had a site where people could Go online comment about me come on pictures that we had bebo. Yeah So there was my space there was all of that. So I've got all my friends Song I had Chris in Aguilera, Dirty Is My Song.

Obviously. What a choice. I actually believed I was Chrissy Laguilera. I absolutely loved her. She looks so different now, doesn't she? I know. But no, I do, I feel like we grew up in a difficult era as well. I think if you look back at the magazines whilst we were growing up, we had Next Top

Model. I used to watch Britain's Next Top Model all the time. America's Next Top Model, the stuff that was spoke about and said on there would kill your body image from the get go. So I feel like we went through a lot in that era as well. I don't think I would cope very well with Instagram. I'm so frightened to have a daughter. But Instagram is basically what you was as a child.

That people look at Instagram and believe everything that's there and how confident and whatever you could be and I think don't realize what's actually actually going on that could be why I am so open online because I wasn't like that as a teenager and I think now I'm trying to like redo and undo everything that I kind of learned as a kid and I am like an open book now Because I don't want people to look at me and think oh she's got everything together because I absolutely do not None of us do. I don't think there's one person that walks on this planet that has got their shit together No, there can't be. Especially if they've got kids. There's just no way

There is I just don't believe it. Because I think there's so many different dynamics and things that go on in people's lives that make us so different and we all are our own person. So. When you get to an adult as well, things just get complicated. Like stuff just, like I was,

I think it was being to my friend the other day, she had some trouble with a partner. And then we were just like, it's just not just not easy like stuff crops up like you start losing people and you're losing babies and stuff You know what's happening in the world and you got bills and like there's just stuff Constant noise as an adult and as a kid you want to go back to that team where you go I'm gonna be a millionaire and I'm the world and it's just all gonna be great It was so hard as a kid as well. I'm like, I wish I could a millionaire and own the world and it's just all gonna be great. I thought it was so hard as a kid as well and I'm like, I wish I could go back and tell her,

Jesus Christ. Yeah, be alright, don't worry about that homework. Stop crying in the toilet love, like your life's fine. You are having a lovely time, your mum and dad are paying for everything, you've got no bills. Try in 20 years. Just keep eating your pasta beans and cheese.

Yeah, and then in 20 years time, then you can cry in the toilet, I'll let you. But like, life is really, really really tough, or really shit. And it is, you know I've had to grow up really really quick and be like wow life is life and it can change like that Olivia, literally so quickly that you actually can't process that. What like, obviously our grief is different, mine is very different to yours and I completely understand that,

but what would you, like if you had to give advice on grief, any kind of grief, what would you say is like your biggest? I think you have to process grief in your own way and whatever works for you and I don't think there's any judgment. Like you feel like you need to talk about it, that is right for you.

I felt like I need to talk about it and be is right for you. I felt like I need to talk about it and be a voice for people. Because everyone's gonna judge you regardless what you do. If I was still in bed in my pajamas now, three years on, I'm sure I'd be getting judged. But because I'm actually up living life, I'm judged. So I think my whole thing is you have to do what's right for you and listen to yourself.

And it's so hard because it's getting out of your head and listening to that gut. But what's my gut actually telling me? But you have to have that feeling of what's right for you. Yeah. And I just think grief can hit you in different ways. Like this month for me is such a tough month because this is Tom's anniversary month and literally the first of March I was just such a bitch on Saturday but I actually can't explain it. Did you realize that that was happening? Yeah I was like I actually felt like I was

gonna have a breakdown on Saturday morning I think Will just took me being like why are you being such a bitch to me? It's like your body literally knows and it remembers. It's like this is gonna be a really hard month for me. But you just have to go through that process. And then I think if you listen to yourself and try not to block it out, listen to what your thoughts are. It's hard to do though, isn't it?

Like you're in that sort of- Analyze yourself, be like, well I'm being a bit of a bitch. Yeah. Sorry. This could be happening. Yeah. I literally, the thing is I am an overanalyzer.

I will analyze every thought I have like to the death. Like I literally cannot leave it alone. But then I think that it works through it for me. Like that works because I work through it in my head. Yeah. So I have a thought and it might be like, Oh, I feel guilty. I'm like, why do I feel guilty? What is it? And then I go through the whole, you overthink that I overthink it. But for me that does work sometimes. Obviously sometimes it can be a bit of a nightmare, but it does let you sort of process and go through every emotion, even if it does fine-tooth comb it. I do think talk, talking to people. I talk about everything. I talk about my feelings. I talk about

how I feel. And I think that's how I do process. So that you're doing the right thing. You are talking to people. I did have a couple of comments talking about it or saying about it or using it. And I'm like, are you gonna get them? But I was so scared of that. Cause I don't, no one likes being judged.

But I was just so scared of the judgment on that. Cause it's such a, I'm sure you felt the same. You've been judged on so many things like Everything yeah, it's hot. It's so hard to just block it. Oh, and that's the thing you want, but you're doing it for them people That haven't got a voice. Yeah, you'll be in the voice for them worthwhile and saying, you know, I have gone through this this is how I feel and Then it's making you have a lot of people reach out to you so many stories the good outweighs the bad but the bad you're just like

how could you actually be that negative horrible to someone like your heart must be so hard to do to say something when someone's grieving or going through but the irony of all these people that actually then come at you and say stuff as you go on their pages and there will be like positive energy. What if it was a dental nurse? And I was like, I will not let you look inside my mouth. Because you're going to be like a really clever, nice person who works in like an industry full of customers and clients and you're on here bullying.

It is actually brilliant. And I just think if you've got nothing nice to say, say nothing. The old age. It is You're actually then putting your energy out that's negative So you're actually just putting negative energy out to the universe But then I only think that's gonna come back at you is negativity So something will happen because it's what you put out to the universe you get back I couldn't actually believe the amount of women that have been through the same thing and the amount of stories and how open

everyone was and how like for people that don't like don't know you personally but feel like they know you how open they were for their stories to me. I just felt like oh my god I'm so lucky to be able to have people that will be so have such open hearts towards me and feel comfortable to tell me their stories too. And I just thought that was amazing. Like the community of women that have gone through a similar thing to what I have, that

we're all in that together now. I feel like we all have each other. Like it's a really comforting, weird feeling. But we do. We've all got each other. We're strong gals. We're strong gals. Yeah, and that's what I think.

It's like women supporting women, isn't it? Yeah. It's all us, everyone coming together. We've got to. We have to. Men ain't going to do it. We've got to support each other. Jesus. Strongest. Yeah, and that's what I think it's like women supporting women, isn't it? Yeah, so everyone coming together We have to. Men ain't gonna do it. We've got to support each other. Jesus That's a wrap on another Mums the Word Thank you so much for joining us today as we were joined by the lovely Olivia Bowen Don't forget to leave us a review, follow us on socials at at mums the word underscore

pod and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Just search mums the word until next time. I'm Kelsey Parker and this is mums the word and we'll be back with another episode. Same time, same place next week. when someone from our team reads over and approves a story. Each one gets carefully checked and clicked more than once to make sure you always get the facts. I'm Susan Bonner. I'm Tom Harrington. And I'm Stephanie Scanderis. Together we bring you the day's news and help you understand it with a process you can trust. Your World Tonight from CBC News.

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