Murdaugh Murders Podcast - ‘Accountability Happens Here’: Russell Laffitte Found Guilty On All Charges (S01E69)

Episode Date: November 24, 2022

The Murdaugh Murders Podcast team saw its first major legal victory this week. After a tense deliberation, a jury found former Palmetto State Bank CEO Russell Laffitte guilty of all charges late Tuesday night for his role in conspiring to steal money from clients of Alex Murdaugh. Mandy Matney and Liz Farrell talk to attorneys Justin Bamberg and Eric Bland to get their thoughts on the dramatic trial and what’s next for Russell. They also catch up with Alania Plyler-Spohn, who helped bring justice by testifying against her former conservator. Listen to episode 56 for Alania Plyler's account of what occurred when Russell took over her conservatorship or watch it on our YouTube channel: https://bit.ly/3tpwsQE SUNscribe to our free email list to get alerts on bonus episodes, calls to action, new shows and updates. AND by sharing your email, we'll send details on exclusive content only available from our upcoming SUNScription platform - CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3KBMJcP And a special thank you to our sponsors: Microdose.com, VOURI, and others. Use promo code "MANDY" for a special offer! Find us on social media: Facebook.com/MurdaughPod/ Instagram.com/murdaughmurderspod/ Twitter.com/mandymatney YouTube.com/c/MurdaughMurders Support Our Podcast at: https://murdaughmurderspodcast.com/support-the-show Please consider sharing your support by leaving a review on Apple at the following link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/murdaugh-murders-podcast/id1573560247 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, here's how Miro works. See, it's amazing. What's everyone doing at David's desk? Ever since marketing started using Miro's collaborative online whiteboard, he thinks all our other teams should sign up. Why? He says Miro's making his meetings disappear. And if every team gets on it, that means even less meetings. They're using Miro for brainstorms, mind maps, customer research.

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See how Miro users save up to 80 hours every year by meeting less and doing more. Board at Miro.com with three boards free forever. That's M-I-R-O.com. I now know that Russell Lafitte conspired with Elik Murdoch to steal millions of dollars from clients. As Justin Bamberg once said, ain't no allegedly about it. Russell Lafitte was found guilty on all six federal counts. He now faces up to 180 years in prison and up to $6 million in fines. And that, my friends, is a big deal.

My name is Mandy Matney. I have been covering the Murdoch case for nearly four years now. This is the Murdoch Murders podcast produced by my husband David Moses and written by Liz Farrell. So yes, big, big news finally came in last night. The Tuesday before Thanksgiving in the Russell Lafitte case. But not without some major drama, of course, which we will get into in a minute. First, I want to say happy Thanksgiving to my MMP friends. So crazy, this is the second time I've said that to y'all.

I want to start out this episode by saying thank you to you, our fans, our followers, our listeners, who have encouraged, inspired, and supported our team throughout the past 17 months. Also, crazy to say that, 17 months. And here we are, 69 episodes in, way beyond anything I could have ever imagined. So I will talk a little bit more about this at the end of this episode for a super special fan segment where we take questions from an MMP superfan. But this Thanksgiving especially, I just want to express my pure gratitude to every person listening to us right now and every person who continues to support us while we are on this crazy, unpredictable ride together.

You know, I've gotten a lot of really kind messages in the last week saying things like, if it wasn't for your team, there wouldn't be a trial right now. And these guys would have just kept scheming. And you know, I'd be lying if I said I have not looked back and wondered if our team didn't expose what we did and when we did, where would we be right now? But I promise you, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the army of supporters having our back through every step of this, asking questions, pushing us to be better, and constantly craving and providing more information. So thank you for dedicating so much of your time to this podcast.

Without you, we would not have been able to start our own company. Without you, who knows where we would be? So many of you have showed us kindness in our darkest days and reminded us how wonderful humans can be while we've been working on this story about how terrible humans can be. And speaking of our fans, the holidays are approaching. We have some amazing merch in our store for your loved ones this Christmas. I personally just bought a bunch of super soft M&P t-shirts and that's a big deal necklaces for my friends.

I'm so excited to give them out. In the best part, all proceeds from our merch store this quarter go directly to Gloria's Gift Foundation, the charity and Gloria Satterfield's honor, which gives Hampton County families in need, presents this Christmas. So if you are looking for a special gift for an M&P fan in your life, check out murdochmurderspodcast.com slash merch in order soon. Okay, so before we talk about the verdict and what it means for all of the Murdoch cases going forward and before we talk about all the jury drama and the anticipation leading up to the six guilty counts, I want to talk about what went down in court on Monday.

And to be clear, we were not in court on Monday. Honestly, Liz, David and I did not really anticipate there would be a trial at all here and we did not think that it would last this long. All of us had obligations that we had to stick to this week and we didn't want Russell Lafitte ruining any more of our plans this month. But thankfully, Justin Bamberg and Eric Bland took one for the team and sat in court on Monday, so none of y'all had to miss a beat. And also, I want to say shout out to the local reporters who stuck it through till the end

and kept us all updated on Twitter Monday and Tuesday. Drew Tripp, Riley Benson, Thad Moore and Melissa Radmaker and so many others. That kind of trial work is long and tedious and thankless and y'all should be commended for your accuracy and commitment. I want to walk you through the lead up to this big moment where Russell was found guilty. We told y'all on the last Cup of Justice episode how Russell took the stand on Friday. He tried hard to present himself as a simple country boy who was duped by the super-duper Ellick Murdock.

He was asked a series of softball questions that lasted hours. And we also told you about how assistant U.S. attorney Emily Limehouse was likely sharpening her knives all weekend, preparing for an absolutely brutal cross-examination of Russell. And much to no one's surprise, things really fell apart for Russell Monday morning. Here is Justin. Honestly, I wasn't surprised by a lot on cross-exam. I think that this whole southern gentleman, good guy image

that he attempted to portray on direct exam really kind of went away and got put in the trash can when he was getting crossed because he was way more combative, way more defensive. There was a lot of what I refer to in trial work is a witness playing dumb to make the lawyer work harder as they're questioning them. Like, well, what do you mean by this? Or what are you actually referring to? And in a case like this where you're trying to convince a jury

that you are an innocent and good guy who is also a victim of Alec Murdoch, I think that actually hurt him because it came off as very disingenuous and just the lack of remorse. You know, it's like this whole concept of, you know, I'm not sorry for the things I didn't do, but I'm also not sorry for the things I did do. And I really don't, I can't comprehend why y'all even have me on trial because I'm a victim too.

You know, and that's what maybe what people have to remember is that there are real victims, the plilers, the painties, Natasha, you know, Arthur Badger. When people say willy-nilly that they are also a victim of Alec Murdoch, depending on the role in which you are referring to, it's really offensive. Not only did Russell appear to be disingenuous, he contradicted himself on several occasions. But things really fell apart for Russell when he admitted in court that he intentionally did not pay taxes on the more than $400,000

in conservator fees that he got nearly a decade ago. And he admitted to only paying those fees in 2021 when it was clear that investigators were closing in on Alec's schemes. That was a big deal moment for the prosecution. It showed that he knew enough to hide the fees from the federal government at the time and knew enough to pay them back when authorities started poking around. The crime and the cover-up, that shows intent. Oh, a jury definitely would not like someone who worked for a bank,

as was testified to by one of his family members. Dang, they're worth a billion bucks. And you make all this money, and it wasn't like a oops, I didn't know that I was supposed to pay taxes. It was a, oh, I purposefully didn't pay taxes, but I did pay them last year. Yeah, after the FBI comes saying, give me all your stuff, yeah, it's like some Wesley Snipes stuff. Like, yo, I'm a sovereign citizen, I'm just not going to pay my taxes.

Like, it comes off as, again, offensive. The whole undertone of the defense to the claims and allegations brought by the United States of America really is offensive to most people. I don't care who you are, if somebody washes my car and I pay them in a check or somebody comes and blows off my driveway and I pay them in a check, they're going to read the for-line. No one gets a check without looking at the for-line. Like, when I get it, well, that's for the person writing the check.

I'm sure it is. That's how I fill it out. But I never take a check from anybody without reading it. And I ain't a banker. So when it came time for closing arguments, there really wasn't much for the defense to do. Defense attorneys Matt Austin and Bart Daniel both spoke during closing. Their argument, essentially, was that Russell was duped by Super Schemer-Elic Murdoch.

Austin argued that Russell admitted to everything, but he doesn't admit to the crimes because nothing he did was intentional. Things really went off the rail when Bart started talking about World War II, enormity, and patriotic duties, which was purely a distraction. And I think that they did the best job that they could with the facts they had to work with, right? Lawyers, we don't write the law. And we also don't make the facts. You literally play the cards you're dealt.

And sometimes you're dealt a really, really crappy hand. And your option is fold and throw the hand back in. In this instance, that would be, man, go ahead and plead guilty to all six counts. Or you do the best you can with what you got. I just don't think that they had a lot to work with. You know, and there ain't but so much explaining a way a lawyer can do in arguing and advocating for his client before the lawyer starts coming off as having no credibility, right?

It's a fine line to walk. During closing arguments, the prosecution basically said, hey, look, you've seen the evidence, you've heard from the victims, here are the facts. We showed you the crimes. We showed you the cover up. He was not fooled. He knew what he was doing. And it was powerful when Emily Limehouse said this,

quote, maybe none of this would have happened without Ellick Murdock, but none of this could have happened without wrestle the feet. And Holiday also had a powerful quote at the end of their closing argument. He told the jury, quote, accountability only happens here in this courtroom where facts matter and influence does not. You know, I think that the U.S. Attorney's office really nailed it in their closing, particularly in the rebuttal by pointing out a couple of things to address some of the smoke and mirrors that was brought up during the defense's closing.

And you have to have a strong rebuttal if you're the government. And not only did they nail it, they nailed it with a diamond coated nail. I did not see a way out. And that is how so many of us who have been following this for a really long time felt after Monday. Done deal, facts are facts, wrestle is toast. Liz and I had several sources telling us that they were guessing the jury would be done by lunch on Tuesday, including Justin.

But then, typical to everything in this case, things did not go as smoothly as we all had anticipated after the jury went to deliberate Tuesday morning. So, what Mandy, I ain't gonna lie to you Mandy, I expected it to go after lunch, in part because even if, but generally speaking, on a higher profile case that goes on for two, three weeks, the jury's gonna, even if their mind is made up,

they're gonna at least make you think they're in there talking about stuff. So, I expected them to have lunch. I did not expect to be walking out of the courthouse on 10 o'clock at night. When the first note came in wanting to transfer it, I wasn't really worried too much. I'm just like, eh, alright, maybe they want to look at something. Again, in my mind, I'm thinking they're looking at the bank fraud piece with the loans and stuff.

But then, now it's 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 o'clock and they're getting dinner. There was a part of me that was kind of like, what the heck is going on? Like, and you know, in Eric and I talked, you know, we were kind of both trying to, alright, talk this thing through, what are we thinking, yada, yada, yada. You know, the thought was, well, maybe at this point, there's no way that they're gonna find them innocent on everything, hopefully. But you never know with the jury. You know, I mean, I was involved in the Waltz of Scott case.

You had a cop who shot somebody in the back eight times from like 50 feet away and there was a hung jury on that. In the state court trial, I mean, I've seen strange things happen at trial and then part of me is like, they have to have a verdict tonight. They have to have a verdict tonight. Do not send them home. Do you start pondering with Thanksgiving's comment? I mean, there's no way they're gonna let the jury leave courts closed tomorrow.

Like, they can't let a jury leave for the holidays and come back and finish deliberations five days later. During the day, two notes from the jury came in, one asking for a transcript of Russell's testimony and another asking for the jury to re-listen to a recording of a Palmetto State Bank board meeting. This presumably gave the defense some hope, especially considering the hours that had passed. The jury was focusing on details and those details could distract them from the facts.

There was a time around 5 p.m. when Eric Bland called me and we both started freaking out just a little. And then the press started reporting that the jury had ordered pizza, which oddly gave us some hope. Maybe they were close to finishing this thing up. And then more notes started coming in and suddenly everything slipped into chaos. One juror said that they had anxiety, another claimed that they needed antibiotics. Then a juror said that they were bullied and everything just got weird.

You know, now it's nighttime, you know, and food's ordered and then you're getting notes like, you know, hey, I got to take my antibiotics. I can maybe go another hour or two, which me personally, I get it. I've been on antibiotics before. I was the hours late. It was never that big of a deal. I figured there was more behind that. And then the issue of, you know, one juror who was having anxiety, and then, you know, there's another note.

Hey, judge, there's a juror back here who has, like, bringing up prior experiences and saying that they're not going to listen to certain evidence and that they disagree with the definitions you included in your charges. And under this charge, you said you can't bring your personal preferences, yada, yada, yada. And it turned kind of into a little bit of a madhouse of, you know, again, what the heck is going on. Thankfully, Judge Gerkel, who honestly has restored my faith in the justice system through his fairness and his kindness in the last few weeks, showed everybody just how it's done. He quickly talked to the prosecution and the defense and agreed to swap two problematic jurors with two alternates.

And then things started moving really quickly. That's when I knew, in my gut, when them other two jurors come in there and what had gone on for seven, eight hours or whatever it was, and now it's another hour, and it's like, we got a verdict. I was like, Russell, go into prison. So within an hour after the alternate jurors were swapped, the jury finally reached a verdict. This was a really good sign for the prosecution. It appeared like the two jurors, the one with the anxiety and the one who needed the medicine, were holding up the process. So at 9.19 p.m., the jury reached a verdict and they were called back into the court.

Russell's entire family was sitting behind him, and then the jury read the verdict. Count one, conspiracy to commit wire fraud and bank fraud, guilty. Count two, bank fraud, guilty. Count three, wire fraud, guilty. Count four, misapplication of bank funds, guilty. Count five, misapplication of bank funds, guilty. And count six, misapplication of bank funds, guilty. I was in there when the first guilty verdict was read and, you know, there weren't any screams or gas or anything like that. But if you looked around the courtroom, some of the people who were there in support of Russell were visibly upset. I saw some people crying. And my heart does go out to people who had, you know, everybody has somebody that loves them, right? And people on Russell's side who do, they love him, you know, and they had nothing to do with any of this.

They just know that, bam, my loved one is about to go to prison, right? And I hate that for him, but I hate it more for Pamela Payne and Malik Wiggins and Natasha Thomas and Hannah Plyler, right? And there's nobody to blame but Russell himself for what he did. And it's all this, and you see the same trend with the money that went to Chris Wilson's office, right? And it's always this, listen to Halle, or I followed up my friend, right? Halle put Chris in the middle of a murder case, you know, and I hate it for a lot of folks. These people deserve justice, and today they got a piece of it. And some have been waiting for over 10 years, and I'm happy for them.

This was the first trial related to the Murdoch case since we started covering this thing in 2019. Yesterday's verdict was the outcome of so many people's hard work, bravery, and dedication to truth and justice. There was so much on the line when it came to momentum and really changing things in South Carolina. Needless to say, the Lefebvre verdict was a long time coming. So, all day into the evening may seem like a very, very long time, but those of us who know this like the back of our hand, just have been doing it for over a year, and not really that bad that it took them this long. I mean, sometimes these juries go out, maybe in deliberations for four or five days, a week, two weeks, you know. So, I just am grateful for, you know, law enforcement and a U.S. attorney's office who is willing to prosecute somebody who is in a category of people who often feel as though they are untouchable, including by the government.

We're grateful for you and Liz and all the work that y'all have done over all this time telling these facts, talking about things when they're not comfortable or popular to talk about. I'm grateful for your listeners. I'm grateful for all the people who have shown love and support to the real victims, to Miss Pinkney, to the Plylors, to the Badgers, to Tasha, Malik, you know, to the Kavondale-Garry's family. Everybody played their role, and everybody's role was important. And I think it took the effort from everybody to get here, and I don't think this is the end, you know. Like Bill Goldberg used to say, I'm the wrestling guy. Bill Goldberg used to say, who's next? And we'll be right back. So, Tuesday might have been the longest day in my journalism career, even though I wasn't in the courtroom.

Generally speaking, trials are my most and least favorite to cover. They're exciting. You're learning a lot more about a case than you knew before, which obviously was the situation here when we heard about the PMPD confrontation on the day of the murders. They're also conclusive. You finally get long-awaited answers, and hopefully you get to see some justice get delivered. There's a lot of drama, and the stakes are high, so that makes some really, really anxiety-provoking stories for me. The tension of the situation is undeniable, and if you're me, you end up feeling extreme empathy for everyone there, especially the victims. And I'm not going to lie, I'm often trying to hold back tears while also taking notes. This, however, was the very first time I've covered a trial and not been in the courtroom for the verdict, and I have to say, it was still nerve-wracking, maybe even more so. But it was made a lot easier knowing that I wasn't alone in my restlessness.

I had Mandy to trade updates with and make jokes with, and I found out that even the great Eric Bland, our Cup of Justice co-host, was feeling our same sense of tension. I talked to Eric first thing Wednesday morning to get his thoughts on the incredible verdict and to learn more about what comes next for Russell in all of this. Eric, as usual, put things in perspective. We started off by talking about how yesterday went for him. The pressure on a lawyer in a litigant while a jury's out, and then that very second before they announced their verdict is nothing like I've ever felt in my life. And yesterday, I wasn't even the attorney or my client wasn't a party, and I just was not right all day long. I wasn't sharp, I was preoccupied, I was worried. The devil works in the dark, and nobody knows what goes on in the deliberation room. No one even today. I mean, it's the one thing. We know how a rocket gets to the moon. We can watch, you know, a laparoscopic device blow up a kidney stone, but we just never see what deliberations are like.

You know, it's anecdotal. Nobody has a camera in a jury room, and a lot of strange things happen in a jury room. And you saw it with the jury notes, and then, you know, as Judge Gerkel said, he's tried over 100 cases. He's been a judge for 13 years, and he said he never saw what happened yesterday where you had one juror who wanted out because they couldn't get an antibiotic. And then you had another juror that almost looked like he could be held in contempt, or she, because according to the note, that juror said she would not follow the judge's instructions, which you take a note to follow the law and follow what the judge tells you. Look, from an evidentiary standpoint, it was overwhelming. It was a slam-door shut. But once you inject the juries and people who come with their life experiences, and I think some of these jurors had, you know, concerns about, well, Russ doesn't look like the normal criminal, and, you know, I wouldn't mind sending a rapist to jail or a murderer, but, you know, I'm not going to send somebody like Russ.

So that's why the juries are so finicky. Because of this finicky jury, Eric said the case was in serious jeopardy at one point. We almost lost this case last night. You know, Judge Gervel rescued it. He saved it with a heavy lasso because, you know, if he had released those jurors, the alternate jurors, in the morning, like most judges do when juries begin to delivery, this trial would have been over because he had to release two jurors for medical reasons. And without having alternative jurors who were sitting in a room, remember, they're just sitting in a room for eight hours. They can't use their phones because then they would have been infected. I mean, Judge Gervel is to be applauded. He saved this trial. Throughout the trial, all three of us had critical feedback for Russell's defense team, and some of the seemingly strange decisions they were making, encoding allowing Russell to upload episode two of Russell TV while the trial was still happening.

Lawyers can only do so much. I'm going to be highly critical of Bart Daniel, not so much of Matt Austin, because I thought his temperament was perfect. But over the next couple of weeks, I'm going to be very critical of Bart Daniel. But it's very little that a lawyer could change. Bart being better wouldn't have gotten Russell not guilty. But Bart being worse like he was, hurt Russ. It hurt him. And I think Bart, in the way that he approached how he was going to defend it, making Russ a victim, was the wrong strategy. There was just never any contrition on the part of the defense. I get it that Matt Austin in his clothes said, look, we accept and agree with everything the government said except it wasn't criminal. That was too little too late. That wasn't Russ saying it. That was a lawyer saying it.

On all our minds yesterday was the idea of what six not guilty verdicts or a mistrial might have meant for the rest of Alec Murdoch's alleged syndicate. A lot of people woke up today, Liz, very, very nervous and unnerved, because this was a resounding guilty. I mean, justice is rolling. There is change happening. No, it's incremental. But if you're Corey Fleming and you wake up this morning, you better start cooperating. If your people at Alec's law firm and you know some things that could hurt other people, you better start talking. People need to know that at least the federal government, if they put you on trial, you're in trouble. You saw it now. Will Creighton Wooders be able to do the job that Emily and Winston did? I sure hope so. But those two lawyers, Emily and Winston, they're really good. And Mark Daniel was really bad.

Now, would it have made a difference? Probably not. But he made some very strategic blunders. Putting him on, putting his client on at the bond hearing to give Emily the ability to say that he lied and he blew his proffer. That's malpractice. Letting them do Russell TV? That was horrible. They knew about it. Don't tell me that they didn't know about that. I don't believe it. We also talked about what happens next for Russell and how long it will be before we see him behind bars. What happens over the next six months, obviously, they got to get a transcript. There's going to be a notice of appeal filed within 30 days. They'll ask for a new trial the judge will deny it. And appeals take two years to go up to the Fourth Circuit. The question will be, he's going to be sentenced within four or five months. What ends up happening is the Bureau of Prisons, they do an investigative analysis on what type of person Russ is, where he would be better suited.

Now, let me tell you what's going to happen. What's going to happen is Russ is not going to get placed in a prison of his own choosing because there wasn't a plea. When you do a guilty plea, you have some leverage to ask the court or the Bureau of Prisons to make you be placed close to home so that your family can see you. Well, in this particular case, the federal government is not going to be wanting to give any dispensation to Russ. One, he didn't plead guilty. Two, he was not a cooperating witness. Three, he lied on his proffer. So even now, if Russ wants to come forward and be a cooperating witness, the government can't use him because he's burnt. He has hurt his credibility because of so many different lies that he's told. He's not a good witness. So if you put him on the stand and he wants to sing about other lawyers or different things about Alex and others, he has no credibility because he's told so many different lies. The third thing, and I think this is going to come out in sentencing, he never mentioned Russell TV at the entire trial.

If it was mentioned to the judge, he made a motion, I think, out of the presence of the jury about it. But it never came before the jury, Russell TV. She didn't use it. She didn't use it to cross-examine him or to discredit or impeach him. However, I think in the sentence, it's going to come up. I think Emily's going to argue in the sentence about Russell TV, about his arrogance, about him in a way mocking the justice system. It would not surprise me that he will be placed at a prison a long way from here, maybe in Oklahoma. And that's what I woke up kind of sad about because it's his children. What man would be so selfish to place his father and sister in jeopardy and basically destroy a reputation of a bank or even ultimately potentially destroy the bank and then leave his children fatherless?

I mean, he could have pled guilty and he would have gotten three to five years, maybe two to four, maybe four to six, somewhere in that range. It's not easy going to jail. But now Judge Gergel will not show leniency to him. He cannot. He cannot. And you saw by Judge Gergel's rulings and what he said during the trial. He was disgusted with Russ. He was disgusted with the defense. So I believe, no, he's not going to get 180 years because that's for each crime, zero to 30. He won't serve him what's called consecutive sentences. He'll serve him concurrent. So each of these guilty charges will be compressed down into one sentence.

And I believe that sentence is going to be somewhere between 12 to 20 years. Overall, though, Eric said the day was very bittersweet for him, even though the outcome was one he, like Mandy and I, were hoping for. I felt so good for Gloria Satterfield. I felt so good for the Elenia and Hannah and the other victims. I felt really good for you and Mandy for all you did. And I felt good for me because, you know, at great personal expense, we took all this on. But at the same time, it is that, you know, you see children and, you know, I love my children and every parent loves their children. And just the raw selfishness of Russ really struck me on what he did throughout this trial. You know, justice doesn't, it doesn't reward friends and it doesn't punish enemies.

It treats everybody equal. And there was a lot of justice that was made out with that verdict. But, you know, like we talked about all week, you never know what's going to happen. What I saw is really a despicable man, just the guy that's selfish that has, you know, no feelings of remorse or, you know, feeling that he let somebody down. And we'll be right back. On Wednesday morning, I spoke with a woman who has quickly become a hero of mine in the last few months, Alayna Plylar. As we told you last week, Alayna and her sister, who lost their mother and brother in a 2009 car accident, were two of the four victims who bravely testified against Russell Lafitte last week. I asked Alayna how she was feeling after Russell Lafitte's conviction. Oh, I feel like I can take just a deep breath of air. It feels good. I feel like we've just been almost at a dead still for two weeks.

And as the rest of the world keeps moving, but I feel here, I feel present and it's nice. Hannah and I are doing much better this morning. It was one of those things like that we knew it was in limbo and I knew that we did exactly what we were supposed to do. And if for whatever reason he was found not guilty, it wasn't because of anything that we've done. Alayna was honest. The last few weeks have made her relive a lot of trauma. This trial, which Russell insisted on having, took the victims back to the worst time of their lives. I will say over the past two weeks, it has definitely reopened some wounds for sure. I was telling David, my husband, it's been about eight years since I had relived the car accident dream. I used to have it almost every night. And night before last, I had it. And I woke up crying. And David was like, what is going on? I was like, it's back.

And he's like, what's back? And I was like, I just saw the whole wreck again in my dream. And it scared me. And I'm sure just because all of those emotions and just repeating that story over and over and over, reliving it, it got to my subconscious and it showed. So then after hearing the guilty verdict, I was like, maybe I can put that to rest too now. So last night was fine. I was terrified to go to bed, but I knew I needed to get some sleep. But I did find last night. But Alayna doesn't have resentment or anger in her heart toward Russell or his family. She said something that really took me aback. She said that she hopes that Russell learns empathy through all of this, like she has learned how to empathize with others after the trauma that she has endured. And I just hope that him being imprisoned kind of humbles him. I know he'll be upset and I know how upset him and Susie made it out to be like they didn't get to see their someplace football. But put yourself in and Alayna and Hannah shoes like, gosh, they never get to see their brother play football ever because you didn't make it.

And that was because of Justin's choices. Russell missed those and will continue to miss these important roles and holidays and stuff because he put himself in that position. Nobody forced him to. And if Alec was that big of a mastermind, and if he I don't know feared Alec that much, then maybe he should have stepped up and told somebody like I almost feel pressured. This guy is making me do this. Like, I don't think you can run on that hill for too long. I mean, this happened for decades. Alayna hopes that Russell learns how to own up to what he did in the past and be honest with himself and his family about this. She hopes that he changes his life starting with his own family. So I just think that it's always been about Russell and that family. What Russell wants is what Russell's going to get and it's going to be his way or no way. And the wife and the children have adapted to that. I just hope that he makes things right with his family. I hope that he gets to relearn Susie and what she likes and doesn't like. I hope he's more honest with her in the coming weeks and because clearly they were blindsided by a lot of things. Now they may they may be totally opposite and feel like everything that their prosecution put up was a lie or, you know, and still support Russell 100%.

But at some point you have to sit back and say those jurors didn't find him guilty for no reason, you know. So I hope he spends this time with his children. I hope he spends this time with his wife. And as for Alayna, despite all of the stress this case has caused her in the last year, she has learned the power of telling her own story. Before this, Alayna kept to herself and stayed away from talking about what happened to her. I never wanted to really share my story because I never wanted people to feel sorry for me. I think we had talked about this before, like, you know, it is a terrible story. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, not even my worst enemy, if I were to have one, because there's just a lot of emotional pain, physical pain, mental pain, like it affects every aspect of your life. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But also, I don't really know how to handle the, I'm so sorry you went through this. God, I wouldn't know what to do if it was me. Like, I just kind of freeze because I wouldn't have known what to do either until I was put in that position.

But I have learned that that's not the way that most people view me. Like, they hear my story and they show empathy and there's such a big difference in that. I didn't want to use my tragedies as an excuse for anything. I didn't want, you know, it's like, I wouldn't want to walk into the grocery store and say, you know, my mom and my brother died and I need free food or whatever. I just would never want to use them as a crutch, if you will. I felt like when people, the more that people didn't know, the more protected I was of it. But, you know, I've learned over the past year, like, no one's out here judging me for telling my story. I'm not looking for handouts or any sort of anything like that. I'm simply here to say my side, say my experiences, and hopefully people can be moved by it. And kind of like the lady that I talked to who stopped me in the parking garage after we left the courthouse, she was sharing a little bit about her story. And she said that she had days where she felt like she couldn't move on.

But after hearing my testimony and the one that you guys recorded on that episode, she said that gave me so much hope and that motivated me so much. And that is the only thing that I hope for my story and it's working. It's doing it. I'm encouraging people who are stuck in that victim mindset to change to, like, you survive that. And it is okay to share your story that you survived and you overcome it. And just for however long you live, you have that right to celebrate what you've overcome. And now, the world knows the story of Elena Plyler. The world now remembers her mother Angie and her brother Justin. And that is a beautiful thing. And it's been truly amazing to see, really, across the world of what I thought was such a small story. It's a very big story in my life, but small to the world is actually bigger.

And my mom and my mom and my brother's story, their lives mattered to not only me, but to the rest of the world. And so that's exciting. They're not forgotten. They'll never be forgotten. I will forever sing about them. Yeah, that's my family and whether they're here or not, I love them and I won't stop fighting for them. Finally, for this special Thanksgiving episode, we wanted to share a special conversation with you that didn't make it into the last Cup of Justice episode. So, Eric, what are you thankful for? I'm thankful for our government. I'm telling you, the lawyering from Emily Limehouse Winston and their team, they could go anywhere and earn a ton of money. And Emily Limehouse is headed for bigger things. I'm thankful for this team of Mandy and Liz, worked so very hard and David programming it behind the scenes.

But I'm just really grateful and thankful to the listeners who give us the energy to do this and the grace that they show us and the comments are so motivating for us. And I feel like we have an army of people that are supporting us. And if anybody says something like a bad word, people jump on those people quickly. I mean, we just have a great team and a great group of listeners. I love that, Eric. Liz, what are you thankful for? I'm grateful, of course, for all the listeners. They truly understand what we're doing here and have helped us amplify this incredibly important call for there to be actual justice in the South Carolina Low Country after generations of astounding corruption.

Our fans are great. They're really great people. I'm also immensely grateful for my friendship with you, Mandy. Aw, you too, Liz. I feel so beyond lucky to have found a friend I can laugh with, cry with, and commit vicious acts of investigative journalism with. The biggest lesson I've learned from our friendship and our working relationship is how important it is to find people in your life who will seek to build you up rather than tear you down. Who exude kindness and who are always there to catch you when you feel like you're about to fall. So thank you. Aw, that's really great.

And I'm especially thankful for your wonderful husband who does not get enough credit for how much blood, sweat, and tears he puts into everything we do here. David, you have become an amazing journalist in your own right, and it's been so rewarding watching you catch the same Murdock bug that Mandy and I have been carrying around for years. And Eric, you aren't just a ray of sunshine to us. You are a meteor. I'm so thankful for everything you've brought to our reporting and for your expertise and your humor and your incredible drive. And finally, I'm grateful for my family and my friends and for my judgy little dog, Newberry. I also am very thankful for the listeners. I really appreciate you saying that I was thinking about that all week. This would not be nearly as interesting.

It just wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't for listeners constantly interacting with us, caring about what we do, waiting, anticipating every new podcast. They care about my dog. They do. They care about our dogs. They love Luna. They love Coco and Stella. And truthfully, they make me feel good. I know.

They make me feel good about myself. The sweet things. Yeah, they're very sweet, kind, encouraging. I couldn't ask for better people to be behind us. And speaking of, very quickly, we have a special guest. One of my favorite fans, honestly, he came up with the term Matinee Mafia of people who support me. That's pretty cool. He's awesome.

He's a football coach on James Island here in Charleston. Welcome, Jamar. We're so glad to have you. Will you introduce yourself to the audience? Hi, I'm Jamar McCord, head football coach James Island. Go Trojans. I'm from North Carolina and, you know, recently moved here a couple years ago with my family to take on a head coaching job at James Island right here in Charleston. Go Trojans.

Go Trojans. Go Trojans. PTI, Protect the Island. You know, that's our phrase around here. It's not just a motto. We really live by it. And we, you know, one island. We really take care of this island.

We love it. Love it. So I've been a big fan from day one when Mandy began to tweet about the podcast. I haven't missed the episode. I haven't missed the episode of Couple Justice nor the Murdoch Murders podcast. I have a question that's, you know, been on my mind for a while since listening to it because I've always had the sneaky suspicion that Alec Murdoch didn't just start these crimes. He's been doing it over a long period of time. Has he opened itself up to Rico Charges, the racketeer, influence and corrupt organizations act with Russell Lafitte and the whole list of characters and listening to episode number 68.

I heard a new name, which was a doctor, which kind of opens itself up to the medical fraud piece, which is another that goes right under the Rico Act. So has Alec Murdoch and the cast open themselves up for Rico? Does it meet the standard to be charged federally with Rico? It's a great question. Eric knows more about the Rico Act than I do. And we've been asked this question a lot and we have not fully answered it. Rico Charges and Rico cases are very rare. They happened a lot in the 90s with the New York mafia and they happen with drug cartels.

It's very rare that you do it with individuals because it takes a lot of different elements and you have to pick the enterprise. What is the enterprise going to be? Is it going to be the fake forge when you deal with the Satterfield case? Are you going to make the bank the enterprise? Are you going to make a law firm the enterprise? So it's very difficult in theory on a 30,000 foot level, you say, yeah, let's bring a Rico charge. They're very, very difficult to articulate and prove. The government and most civil lawyers, what they do is they use the word conspiracy.

It basically means the same thing, that different people conspire and then they use the mail fraud and then they use the wire fraud. And so you actually get the same result without having to go through the complexity of the Rico. Granted, in mafia cases, it's set up perfectly because you may have the Gambino family or you have, you know, the John Gotti or you have the Scarfo family. And then in a drug enterprise case, you have a drug cartel. This case really, I don't think sets itself up for Rico because I don't think you have that one enterprise. It's got to be an enterprise. So would it be only the bank or would it be a law firm or would it be forge? You know, you do have Rico participants in Alex and Russell and Corey and a lot of other people.

So I think that would really confuse our jury and it's easier to just do conspiracy and wire fraud and mail fraud and bank fraud. And I think you're going to see how they all kind of dovetail and fit in with each other. Yeah. And I mean, but the question also made me think of like, we still don't know how far back this goes and if Alex really came up with it or, I mean, there's still just a lot. And how many people were involved in really what it was because we still don't know where the money went and what the what the enterprise was, like you said. So that was a really great question, Jamar. Thank you, Jamar. Yeah, thank you.

And do you have any questions personally about us? If I had a question for the three, I feel like I know you're already you're such cool people. Oh, God, what would it be? Okay, I got it. What is your favorite place to dine while in Charleston? Because I know the crew is is around downtown now for the trial. What is your favorite place to dine while in Charleston? Another great question because Charleston is like the food capital of the universe in my eyes.

Every time I come here, like, I would be a million pounds if I lived in this town, because everything every meal I have is amazing. But probably Tavern and Table and Mount Pleasant is my favorite place. Have you ever been there, Eric? I have. It's a very good restaurant, Mandy. Oh, it's so good. And it's right on Shem Creek and it's beautiful. And I always have such a it's just a very happy environment.

And we've been going to Millers all day, a lot during the trial, and it's very good for like lunch. Have you been there yet? I heard it's great hamburgers. Now you're going to. I mean, you could go anywhere. It's so Charleston is just so good. What's your favorite place, Eric? Well, you know, I do like Magnolias.

But if I'm going to be honest, you know, being from Philadelphia, I cannot get a good cheese steak in Columbia, South Carolina. And there's a cheese steak place in West, West Ashley called DB's, which is as close to Philadelphia as you can get. They have Amoroso rolls that they fly in and their cheese steaks are to die for. And I also like a place called Boxcar Betties that serve this unbelievable fried chicken sandwich. I'm kind of a plain guy. So that's the kind of food I like. And Liz, what is your favorite restaurant in Charleston? I know you have a lot too.

I would have to say my favorite restaurant in Charleston after eating out every meal for two weeks. Actually, there are two. The first was this small restaurant on Spring Street called Chaobao Biscuit. They have this amazing dish called Akona Mayaki, which is a Japanese street food. Highly recommend. And the burger at Millers All Day on King Street that was right around the corner from the courthouse. That was really, really good. Those are great places to eat.

Good selection. I like to say hey to all the people on J.I. that listens to the Murloc Murders podcast, my friends over at Moving the Chains podcast. My daughter Carmen. Love you, Carmen. Everybody worldwide. Hi, Grandma. Hi, Mama. Love you guys.

Hope to see you soon. Take care, Jamar. Yeah, thanks, Jamar. I love it. Hey, keep up the good work. We support you. Don't let negativity slow you down. It's just noise in the background.

Keep doing positive work and thank you. Akona Shark Productions.