Murdaugh Murders Podcast - Cup of Justice Bonus 8: Big Moments and Bad Ideas: Week One of the Russell Laffitte Trial

Episode Date: November 11, 2022

Mandy Matney, Liz Farrell and Eric Bland meet up in Charleston to share their thoughts on who the winners and losers are so far in Russell Laffitte’s federal trial. They also check in with South Carolina Rep. Justin Bamberg — who is fresh off his re-election victory — to talk about Russell’s bizarre decision to proclaim his innocence on YouTube three days before his trial began. Russell TV aka Russell’s public pleas of innocence can be found here: https://bit.ly/3G2iZpo We all want to drink from the same Cup of Justice — and it starts with learning about our legal system. What questions do y’all have for us? Email [e-mail] and we'll do our best to answer your questions in these bonus episodes. Listen to episode 56 for Alania Plyler's account of what occurred when Russell took over her conservatorship or watch it on our YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/mGUCNX-zUcw In other BIG NEWS! since publishing this episode, Cup of Justice launched on its own feed and hit #1 on Apple on the first day!!! Please consider giving our newly launched Cup of Justice a 5 star review on Apple & Spotify to help us in our mission to expose the truth wherever it leads!! COJ on Apple: https://apple.co/3HHT9av COJ on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3WMKkAI We all want to drink from the same Cup Of Justice — and it starts with learning about our legal system. What questions do y’all have for us? Email [e-mail] and we'll do our best to answer your questions in these bonus episodes. Consider joining our MMP Premium Membership community to help us SHINE THE SUNLIGHT! CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3BdUtOE What questions do y’all have for us? Email [e-mail] and we'll do our best to answer your questions in these bonus episodes. SUNscribe to our free email list to get alerts on bonus episodes, calls to action, new shows and updates. AND by sharing your email, we'll send details on exclusive content only available from our SUNScription email list - CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3KBMJcP And a special thank you to our sponsors: Microdose.com, VOURI, and others. Use promo code "MANDY" for a special offer! Find us on social media: https://www.facebook.com/MurdaughPod/ https://www.instagram.com/murdaughmurderspod/ Twitter.com/mandymatney YouTube.com/c/MurdaughMurders Support Our Podcast at: https://murdaughmurderspodcast.com/support-the-show Please consider sharing your support by leaving a review on Apple at the following link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/murdaugh-murders-podcast/id1573560247 *The views expressed on the Cup of Justice bonus episodes do not constitute legal advice. Listeners desiring legal advice for any particular legal matter are urged to consult an attorney of their choosing who can provide legal advice based upon a full understanding of the facts and circumstances of their claim. The views expressed on the Cup of Justice episodes also do not express the views or opinions of Bland Richter, LLP, or its attorneys. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you guys been paying attention to the jury? I'm watching them. They are, they're really wrapped. I haven't seen anybody falling asleep. And copious notes, not a lot of copious note taking. I mean, I can't imagine hearing this case for the first time or like in all the details. With the checks and the financial, all the financial stuff, hearing it. Like, I can see it on paper and understand it, but just hearing it in a testimony is really,

If I were coming into this clean, what would I be thinking in this moment? So maybe we should do that. Like, pretend that you're not Mandy. Pretend that you're just a regular old person. It would just be very overwhelming and very hard to understand what the actual crimes are that you're there for. Because it's not murder. It's not burglary. It's not...

It's not one of the seven deadly crimes that you think. It's not simple. It's complex. The opposite is simple. Right. Yeah, and it's hard to, it's hard for anybody. And I think that that is what the defense could use to their advantage, but I don't think they're doing a great job of that.

And don't forget, on the first day of trial, the jurors are sitting there saying, oh, my goodness, I'm going to have this for two weeks. What am I going to do about work? I have this report due. I can't even get into my computer because, you know, this is lasting on 5 o'clock. Then I have children. You know, holidays are coming up. It's really overwhelming when you see a juror who's not familiar with the justice system and you tell that person, you're going to be locked up basically for two weeks.

You're not going to be able to talk to anybody. And we're going to occupy all of your brain matter with this trial, very complex issues. So, Eric, if you were just walking in on that trial and you didn't know anything and you're not a lawyer, what do you think would strike you the most so far? The seriousness of it. In federal court, they tell you it's more serious than state court. State court, you always hear it's the murders, the rapes, the robberies. This is real stuff. This goes to the commerce system. You're talking about bank fraud, wire fraud, conspiracy, so much money. When they started talking about the legal fees and the amount of these settlements, we're talking about $2011, not $2,22. And you're talking about $10 million settlements and $18 million settlements. The amount of money that we're learning that goes through that law firm on a yearly basis really is eye-opening. Okay, so I'm going to pretend that I walked in as not a journalist knowing nothing. The number one thing my impression would be are all these freaking people related.

Yeah, I mean, I made a joke about it today. Several. Oh, no, several tweets. Amazing jokes, actually. I was sitting there with you guys watching it, and all of a sudden I said, hey, I just realized that the first witness was his cousin, the second witness is a sister-in-law. Can't they find anybody that is not affiliated with these families or these law firms or the bank? It was actually way more dramatic than that.

We're Mandy and I are sitting at a small desk together, and we're both facing the TV, and Eric's sitting sort of behind. behind us in between us. And you hear when she, Jeannie Seconder, who is the CFO for PMPED, she mentions, you know, she couldn't answer a question because she's like, you know, Russell's my brother-in-law, and I love him. And Eric Bligh, and goes, what? Oh, my God.

How did I miss that? It was just the best reaction. It was the most honest. I mean, it was more than you'd see people get together at a family picnic at the Genevieve's family, you know, at the Memorial Day. at the Geno B's family. But I, you missed when Eric and I were talking after court today, and we were going over, what was the name, Jan, the final?

Jan Malinowski. Jan Malinowski. And I was like, oh, yeah, he's related to Russell too. And Eric was like, shut up. Can't they find somebody that would be a witness that's not a family member? I mean, I said, look, if, you know, if family members are testifying against, Can you imagine people who aren't what they would say about them? But we were saying earlier that that just shows how small the world is for them.

Mandy, how do you think the prosecution is doing so far? I think Emily started out really strong, and I think it's been strong the entire time. Straightforward to the point, making a complicated case as simple as possible is what I got from her opening statement and her questioning. Can you break it down into what the theme is for the prosecution? I can't in one sentence. What is your sentence? You can't steal other people's money to pay off an obligation to somebody else. Or absolute power absolutely corrupts.

Corrupts, absolutely. Yeah, Lord Abbott. We all fringe with that. I don't know if that's the appropriate theme. I think the theme is more you just can't steal other people's money. So to explain to people, Emily Limehouse, at the very very. very beginning of her opening statement, quoted Lord Abbott. Lord Abbott.

And at the end. Yeah. She said, we really wanted it. Absolutely. Absolutely power corrupts, absolutely. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts, absolutely. There you go. And I did not, I don't know why we're all cringed at that for some reason.

It just all just sat like high school debate. I don't think it's power. It's more relationships corrupt. I don't think it's about power. That's such a good point. It's just the relationships are corrupt. The incestuous nature with the law firm and the bank and the lawyers are customers of the bank. And then the bank, he said in his opening statement, the law firm is like the biggest customer of the bank,

almost bigger than a lot of the corporations. And so that is that kind of incestuous relationship. So I think it's more of corrupt a relationship, not about power. Mandy and I, on the first day of trial, went up to the courtroom for opening statements from Emily Limehouse and Bart Daniel. And there was a point, Mandy, where there's a couple points, but we have masks on, so it's just our eyes. But we both whipped our heads around and looked at each other like, what did she just say? Yeah, specifically the big reveal about PMPED in the Day of the Murder. Wow.

It was that If you could have a microphone on everybody It was a little bit of a Well, I thought she made a mistake at first I did too, but then she said the day of the The day that Maggie and Paul were killed Explain to me why what we're referring to So there's a $792,000 fee that

Went miss they never made it to PMPD Because ELEC had the check made out to himself And they found out on May 19th Who made the check out to himself? Chris Wilson who's an attorney Still on a attorney In Barwell. Still an attorney.

I heard he's in Columbia now. Have you heard that? No, I have not. I heard he tried today. He's trying to like reinvent himself as a non-Alec Murdoch buddy. But yeah, so Mandy. Don't you sneaky, Liz? You know so much.

Well, that's what I was going to say. So Mandy, you, we know a lot about this case. And a lot of times it's like, I don't think that we report probably 90% of it because we only report what we can verify, right? Yeah. But every time something new comes out, we've already heard it. It's just now it's getting verified. Except for that. never heard this before.

You did tell me last far winner that you believed that the firm knew before Labor Day, that the whole excuse that, oh my God, we just stumbling on. Oh, we all believe that. Oh, my God, that's when we found out. So, Mandy, how did we not, how did no one say this to us before? I mean, I'm going to tell you what this makes me think. There's so much we don't know. Like, there's so much.

Because if they could keep that secret for that long, holy, how there's going to be a whole bunch of stuff that we don't know coming to PNPT. Well, what was interesting is Gene said they had a concern before that Alex was trying to avoid Mark's lawsuit. That was something on their mind. It wasn't just that day that they found out. They said that in their discussions inside the firm, Alex was very concerned about Mark's lawsuit and he was going to be held liable for the boat crash.

Yeah. So they already had that on their radar screen. I was on the edge of my seat, like, oh, my God, this is so crazy. And also, no national media were there, by the way, not a single national reporter. And how many- Yeah, I was very surprised because they had this media room. It's like Indy. It's you guys.

Hosting Courier. Hosting Courier, John Monk, of course, from the State Paper. And maybe was Jake from State Farm from the Highland Packet there? He hasn't worked there in a while. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Jake, James Jake.

His name's Jake. Well, he was in, yeah, he was in the HBF. Oh, God. Yeah, I mean, it's very, like. And the courthouse isn't, the courtroom is not as packed as I thought it would be. You know, we all thought we're going to have trouble getting seats. It's, we walk in and nobody's there. So I don't know.

But there's two people that should be there at that trial. And that is Dick Harputtling and Jim Griffin. These are financial crimes. Alex is charged with... That appear to be directly linked to the double homicide. Right. And so at first I would say you just got to be there for the financial crimes. But now that she linked the June 7th date of the day of the murder with the financial crimes,

there's another reason why Jim and Dick or somebody from their office should be there. I mean, I look around, I'm noticing that the attorney for PMPED, he's there for the entire trial, Jim Meg. Greg Harris from the Harris document he's there because he wants to see is there future exposure for this bank from the government

is the government then going to turn on the bank and I'm telling you if I'm Big Charlie he better be lawyered up and have a lawyer there Mark Tinsley's there Mark Tinsley's there and Eric Bland is there as we found out there because Mindy I want to say what happened after lunch

What happened after lunch I wasn't there for this, by the way. We haven't even told you. Liz and Mandy Adventures Day 2. We get into the courthouse. They know us by now. Because we got stuck in the hallway. Because we got stuck in the hallway.

No, in the stairwell. Stairwell. You were pulling on the door and did the alarm go off or it just didn't open? I opened the first floor door and it felt like a Skibby-Doo episode because you're suddenly because it was so, it was really quiet, difficult to go through security because you have to have, you're so afraid you're going to break the roll.

You have your mask on, you have, you know, your badge. I had to take off my watch. Yes. It's like the airport, but worse. It's like the airport but worse. I kept going on. Yes. Well, the first day is nerve-wracking, right?

So we decided we were on the fourth floor. We weren't going to be allowed to stay for the jury selection. So we decided we were going to take the stairwell down because, look, you are in this building with people that you don't want to be on the elevator with. And that is just a fact. Yeah, everywhere you turn, like at the urinal, I'm at the urinal and I turn and Russ was it, you know, Russ is in the end. Your story is worse. You know, it's, you know, you come out and, and then Russ's wife is staring at me, you know, and the glares or the glares are so bad. I've gotten some wild Lafitte glares. You got a lot of Lafitte

clears, yeah. So yeah, we open the door after the stairwell. We're locked in the stairwell. We go down to the first floor and to find out that we opened the door like right outside of security meaning we would have to go through it again and I just said oh no. Like out loud. And then they all turned and looked at us and we were like. None of our stuff. We just had our like paper and pen. We couldn't get anything.

But yeah. Like you guys are cool. It's fine. So we get in and we sit down. We get our laptops out and the trial starts again after lunch and the first words out of Bart Daniel's mouth or Eric Bland. So what do you say? He said, I want to talk about Eric Bland or I want to make a motion about Eric Bland?

I couldn't fully hear what he was saying about Eric and I couldn't fully understand what he was trying to get at. But what I heard was Eric's been texting with the media. That's accurate. That's what he said. Yeah. And. Because I think, I don't think Bart.

Bart is an older gentleman. I think he met tweeting. I think he heard possibly that Eric. was on social media and I don't I really don't know but he it sounded like he wanted the judge to and I think he kind of did the same thing that he did before which is like I'm not looking for sanctions but can you can we remind people of sequestration can't I'm having trouble sequestration and and that's an order that the judge made at the beginning of the trial that anybody who's going to be a witness right cannot be in the courtroom until they're called to

testify. After they're released, they can sit and watch the trial. And then he said, and particularly, we can't use proxies to tell these people what is going on in the trial. Meaning you can't have a friend in there come and relay what's going on. Yes. Do you think that's still going on? I have a right to talk. I wasn't talking to my client, but I do have a right to prepare Elenia Spahn and Hannah Plyler for their testimony. And the reason is because Their testimony is going to be under oath, and it's going to be used, whether I want it or not, by the bank and by Russell Feet in my civil suit. Right. So they have a right for me as their lawyer to give them advice.

I'm not telling them what to say, but I have a right to tell them how the trial works, how they're going to be presented with exhibits, how they have a right to explain their answers, don't get argumentative, all these things. and he made it sound like I'm texting with Elania or giving Elania play by play of what's going on. I was just telling her, go, girl, I can't wait to hear you. She's going to take the wood to these people. Mandy, what were we pleasantly surprised by with Judge Gergel? He is very pro-press. He's very pro-media. Pro First Amendment.

Called us his friends. Called us my friends in the media, which was really sweet. He knew about podcasts, which. which I liked. He apparently knew that Eric was on a podcast. I'm kind of like a hybrid. Yes, I'm a full-time practicing lawyer. I'm not going to call myself a journalist because I'm not.

I'm just a podcaster. I try to educate the public. And I also want to make sure that justice is carried out. So I feel like that that's my mission. And I don't think I was doing anything wrong. And I feel very proud of Judge Gergel that he recognizes that, you know, no prior restraint. We're not going to issue an injunction. We're not gagging anybody. Say what prior restraint is. Prior restraint is using the power of your office to chill somebody

from talking about a matter of public concern or that's protected speech under the First Amendment. And the best part of the story is that right when the judge was done talking about this and Bart was done complaining about it, the courtroom doors, I guess, opened and Eric Bland walked in. And I'm telling you, it's like I walked in and I had a boogie on my lapel or something everybody's looking at me like and I'm like what what's going on I'm you know do I have my shoes up you know my my pants ripped or what it was something like but I did like I also liked the gurgle said there's a thing that we have called the first amendment I don't know if you guys have heard of it and he was like sarcastic and funny but also yie these old school

lawyers like Bart are not used to being challenged remember this is a system where there's a locker room for the rest of the bar and then there's the upper locker room for the special members of the bar. And he is a line of our bar. I am not going to criticize him. The man's been in the arena. He's done a lot of good as a prosecutor and a defense attorney. But he's not used to people like us commenting on the substance of his presentation.

I'm not going to sit here and be critical of, well, is he good at cross-examine or whatever, but we have a right to talk about the substance of his arguments and the substance of his presentation. And that's what we're here for. Yeah. With Gergel, I will say that Judge Gergel. Judge Gergel. I will say... I know. I don't mean to correct you, but I'm the lawyer. Judge Gergel, and he deserves all the respect. I usually, at this point in my life, I am so sick of seeing no offense old white men in the courtroom because usually they're like Dick Arpoutly and usually, That's just what I have come to be just unimpressed by them because they just come in and they're super cocky, but really they have nothing behind them. But Judge Gergel, I was extremely impressed.

You should be because he does not have the proverbial black robe syndrome that you hear people talk about. Blackrobe syndrome is somebody that becomes a judge and they think that they could dictate exactly what should go on in their courtroom to lawyers. and tell lawyers what to do, and they want to show the jury sometimes that they're smarter than the lawyers. Judge Gergel, I'm telling you, is doing this perfectly. He's not interfering. He's not being trying to dominate the courtroom. He's letting the lawyers do the lawyering, letting the witnesses testify.

And the most important people in that courtroom, the jury. He's letting the jury own that courtroom. He complimented the jury. And he's sweet to them. Yes. He's very, he's really. I'm very impressed. And I like that like, listen, the jury's been listening for a while.

They need a break now. Like, he's very considerate, and I like that. And we'll be right back. From the creative team behind the Brutalist and starring Academy Award nominee Amanda Seifred in a career best performance, Searchlight Pictures presents the testament of Anne Lee. With rave reviews from the Venice Film Festival, this bold and magnetic musical epic tells the story inspired by a true legend, Anne Lee, founder of the radical religious movement The Shakers, the Testament of Anne Lee. Exclusive Toronto Engagement, January 16th, in theaters everywhere,

January 23rd. So the prosecution so far, what mistakes do we think they've made? It's hard to say they've made mistakes. It's very technical. There's a lot of different loans. There's a lot of different checks. And don't forget, you have to explain them. Plyler case, the Badger case, the Picney case, and you have to weave it all together. Now, if it was me as a prosecutor, Ronnie and I always put on an expert witness as our first witness to explain the rules of the road. So I would have put on a banking expert to explain what banking regulations require. Then I would put on a conservator expert to explain what it means to be a conservator that you can't self-deal, which means you can't loan yourself money.

I would have also had one victim on early, early on. Say my home run victim, whether it's Elania, who I think is going to be a home run. But I would put on a victim to get the jury emotionally attached to the case to say, wow, you lost a loved one, and then you were victimized by your lawyer or victimized by your banker, to get them emotionally invested in this case. So it's storytelling. So when you're laying out your witness list and the order you want to put them in, you're putting them in an order that is giving the beginning, middle, and the end.

There wasn't a lot of excitement. No, cousin Norris was not exciting. Instead, we had cousin one, two, and three. Seriously. I mean, come on. Which Thanksgiving dinner going to be like at the holidays this year at the Lafee family? Oh, my gosh. It's going to end.

One empty double wide. Vintage. So, Mandy, what do you think the prosecution, have they made any mistakes in your opinion? I think the only mistake would be over-complicating. And it has started to get a little boring at times. And with check after check, exhibit after, and I know that they have to do it.

And it's, yeah, and it's hard. You got to create the record. Maybe if they, like Eric said, if they had a compelling witness in between all these technic. witnesses that it should have been a story and we haven't really gotten the story yet even though there's been very important little pieces of nuggets of information for the rest of us as far as for the jury and a heartfelt emotion is what we've been missing so this is the problem I have had with the prosecution so far is just simply that I don't understand I'm so happy she mentioned June 7

I'm so happy that we got the insight today from Jeannie Seconder about what happened that day and surrounding that day. But I'm not really sure what that has to do with Russell. So I don't know that she's connected those dots. Oh, I definitely. I think it got to the Russell the word from the firm, hey, there's some financial things going on because he definitely got nervous. He was in, I think he was, I think he became a busy bee after June 7th to figure out, how are we going to get these loans paid all? before the, can I say that word? Yeah.

Before the shit hits the fan. She said over and over again in her opening statement, the word cover up. He helped, he helped, Russell helped Ehrlich cover up his crimes. She said that over and over. And I think that her point and I think all of us is building up to everyone, including Russell, knew that shit was hitting the fan. and they also knew that something's up with his Alec Murdoch guy and his wife and son suddenly die and the whole town fears him so who would kill him and but then you're still giving him money why

we saw a side of Russell today though through the testimony that I didn't know existed I thought he's this you know lumpy kind of go guy that you know he's malleable you can move him around but In that executive meeting, he said firmly, we're given the 680 to the firm. I don't need your approval. We already got it from my dad and my sister. A very strong, assertive Russell. That's not the image that I had of him. That's what really surprised me.

Did that surprise you? When Jeannie Seconder called Russell to tell him in September that she had, that they had fired or I'll step down or whatever it was. Russell's response was the bank's going to lose a lot of money. Yes. So maybe what you guys were saying, I can get on board for that. The reason that Emily is bringing up what happened on June 7th is to show that. Things got into motion at the bank because Russell was like, oh-oh.

And that said about the prosecution, the defense. I think I thought yesterday the defense had a ban. day, had a bad opening day. I don't think they caught their footing in the morning, but in the afternoon, Bart fighting with Judge Gergel, what he did was able to convey was that Alex was a frenetic guy, that Alex, you could never pin down, that if he talked, he double talked, or he'd avoid addressing it. And he conveyed that the law firm is, filled with a bunch of really smart lawyers, and they were duped by Alex. So if the lawyers in his own firm who deal with them every day were duped by him, poor Russell was duped by him. And so why are you

pinning all this on Russell? Barton kept trying to say, the law firm did this, and the law firm was aware of this, and Judge Gergill shut him down and said, look, they're not on trial here. Alex isn't on trial here. But I think the jury understood it wasn't. It wasn't. just Russ who could have stopped this. And in fact, Jeannie actually gave a very telling admission that I think Bart's going to use in his closing argument when she said, look, definitely Russ, my brother-in-law, could have uncovered this and stopped it. But she said, there are a lot of other people that could have done it to, even us. And I think that's an honest answer, but it's an answer that can create reasonable doubt on the jury, that why are you only picking on Russ? So I thought

that was effective. Mandy, have you seen anything you like from the defense yet? Not like. Respect or effective? Okay. I think that they are prepared. I think that they know the case. I also like the mutual respect that we've seen in the courtroom that we have not seen

in other cases. Oh, yeah. Well, people are at each other's throats. That's a good point. I didn't realize that. Gentile. It's been, yeah, it's been civil the entire time. People listen to each other.

have respected each other for the most part. So that's been good. I could see maybe that the opening statement was about confusing the jury and just telling them Alec Murdoch, blah, blah, blah, this whole Murdoch mess, the law firm, Bank of America, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they're like, what is even happening? I could see that as a strategy. Do you think that it is an effective message that Russell wasn't the only one who missed all the red flags about Alec Murdoch, if that's what the defense is doing?

It's just not... Like, does that sway you the thinking anyway? I'm not buying it. No. Here's why. There's a doctrine in the law called Last Clear Chance. So a whole bunch of people can blow it, miss the signals. but who's the guardian at the gate.

Russell's the guardian at the gate. He controls the money. All he had to say was, no, it's against banking regulations. No, you're overdrafted by $100,000. No, you're such a credit risk. Kitty City wouldn't give you a credit card. No, no, no, no. That's all he had to say.

And he also was a, in addition to being a backer and having the last care chance, He was a conservator, which means you have to be the guardian of the gate for the pliler money, and you have to protect it and preserve it. And you can't take it for yourself and build a swimming pool because if he defaulted on his own loan, who's the guy that has to prosecute the loan? The default. He does. Is he going to sue himself?

Hello, Russ. This is Russ. You know what? You're 30 days past due on your payment, and I'm going to sue you. Well, thank you, Russ. I'll see you in court. Well, go. Go get your own lawyer. I mean, come on, man. It's ridiculous that we're even having these discussions.

Russ is the guy that should have stopped Alex. So when I go to a trial and I'm watching it, I watch lawyers because I want to learn and I learn. You guys are jurors. You're sitting as jurors. I'm not sitting as a juror. I'm sitting as a lawyer looking at lawyers. So I want to hear, you guys are jurors sitting there. What do you think? Well, I'm going to be a biased juror. I want them to put more dirt on the record about PMPED and what was going on there because I feel like that is But that's not the trial we're at. I understand that.

You don't want to create an appellate issue. I'm fine with an appellate issue. I want to know more about PMPED and I want to... Well, you'll know that when Alex is on trial for his financial crimes. That's why... I can't wait for 2030. I hear what you're saying now. I hear that you want to know more.

I want to know more. I think this is sort of the opportunity. So if Russell is going to come at it from a, I'm being unfairly targeted and singled out and these other people were doing these things too or these other people, you know, were problematic too. Then I want to hear more about those problems. I'd like to see a little more passion from the government because this is our banking system that we have to. We have to trust our banking system. And these are, you know, depositors money, depositors, people that put their money in the bank. The pickneys, the bad.

and the plilers. And we have to have a system. I want to see Emily say, we can never let this happen in our banking system. You know what I'm saying? The banking system is the most important thing that drives our commerce. Yeah, for sure.

So maybe we'll start to hear passion the more the victims come in. But it's a little sterile right now. If that's a criticism, I can level. Anything about the defense, mad? I just think that, I mean, it's hard because on one side, I would like them to get a lot of things on the record. And I do understand their point that, like, why is our guy the only guy in this whole thing?

It's a huge mess. And there's lots of, there's millions of dollars. Ain't no way. It's just Russell who should be charged with federal crimes right now. Right. But I also understand Judge Kirkland's point of, like, look, it's your guy who's on trial right now. I don't, I don't care about the other guys. We can get to them later.

But Bart did make a good point today when he said, like, this is P and PED and they're going to testify in this case, these lawyers are going to, and their credibility does matter. Do you think we're going to have lawyers testify in the case? It's a very dangerous thing to put on a lawyer because then you open yourself up to a lot of cross-examination. Right, which that's what I want to see, obviously. Right. Yeah, that would be a good show for me. So now, you guys have both been chomping at the bit to talk about something super special. And that is the first cousin that we were introduced to in the last week of Russell the Feats.

And that is a woman who calls herself Sarah Allen. So Sarah Allen says that she was a former investigative journalist and a former news anchor. And it looks like she created us. Former, former, former. Former, current. I think she sells makeup now. Airborne. current journalist. She's not a practicing journalist. There you go. She's not a practicing journalist.

And yet, and yet this came out of nowhere on Friday. Liz calls it Russell TV. It was a video that was uploaded to YouTube. And it was the strangest thing. I think it's better if we just let Eric say what he thinks because it'll just really tell you guys what this video did to all of us. It was a contrived interview with softballs where Russell tried to say, I did this. I and the Hannah and Alainia were paid back every dollar. But he didn't do part B of that statement. They were paid back every dollar because Alex took the money from other conservatorship accounts. It was a self-serving interview.

And, you know, long shots and close-ups and hilarious. Well, I've already subpoenaed episodes whatever, two, three, and four because it said episode one there. I also subpoena it. We're subpoenaing the uncons. versions because a lot of it was merged. So I want to see all the outtakes. How many different times did he have to say something? That's all got to be preserved.

We'll be right back. It's been a long day. Let's get Justin on. Who's Justin? Oh, J.B. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, look at him. Hey, what's up, y'all?

Come on, man. Really? Do you have slippers that have the crowns on them in the front? Come on, tell me. Is that a cigar? Are your initials carved on the chest of that robe? I want to see. Does it say, J.B., on that robe?

There are no initials, but, you know, it is kind of the, you know, it's got the look going on. You're celebrating, huh? Yeah. It has been a long day. J.B., you didn't hear today, evidently, when I was walking from the parking garage to the courtroom, Bart made a motion to almost gag me because I've been tweeting during the trial at different times

and texting in the courtroom and that somehow I'm trying to affect the outcome of the trial. What? Yes, sir. Dude. But Judge Gergel, to his credit, said, do you guys ever hear the First Amendment? I'm not doing prior restraint here.

This is a public trial. Judge Gergled shut it down, but yeah. Second time the Bart has tried to shut me down. But his client literally just dropped the whole turd. YouTube, yeah, self-promotion marketing pitch. Justin, what did you think when you saw that video the first time? How did you hear about that video?

So somebody sent me the link. I don't know what. I couldn't believe it. I was just kind of sitting there and... What did you think? think when you press the link and all of a sudden he comes up and he's sitting on a chair in front of Wyatt Earp's house? What was the first thought that went through your mind? Who is this? And who is he pretending to be? That's the first thing came to my mind.

It was like he's trying to present like this down to earth dude or whatever as though he didn't run around for all this time like pretending to be better than everybody else. That's what I thought. Well, what did you think as a lawyer? Would you have said if that was your client who did that without your permission, would you not walk into the court and say, I make a motion to be discharged? I have a reconcilable differences with my client.

Without a doubt. Without a doubt. I think if the lawyers are involved, I told the girls, it's the dumbest legal move I've ever seen in my career. It's definitely not smart. Definitely a gamble. But Justin. Justin, they've been complaining about unfair press for Russ.

Yeah. What was the part? Wasn't that a purpose for him to infect the potential jury pool? He didn't put it out as a private video only viewable by his family and friends. They put it on an internationally open platform for the sole purpose of getting his story out in a manner whereby real journalists could not check him or call him. him on the tough questions. It was a propaganda piece in advance the trial. That's exactly what it was. None of the tough questions were asked. Just the basic question, can you read? And hand him, hand him the paperwork that from the court that literally says in big bold letters, no disbursements to be

made without prior approval of the, well, not just that. And then if you look, um, The Malik Williams case, right? You had cases where Russell got, I wanted, I wish that the cousin would have asked him, but you've gone before the court before for like a nominal $2,500 conservative fee. Why didn't you do it for the really big ones, $60,000, $25,000, right? These are the questions that a real journalist would have asked. Since he wanted to be heard, right, he's the one that wanted to be heard. They should have asked that.

And instead, it was just a giant propaganda piece, which is funny because people go and fuss and yell at us, Eric, me and you as lawyers, for talking to the press and informing people in the public. We're not defending himself did it. If I was sitting there, I would have liked to ask him, so tell me how I can, that kind of money with a negative check of account balance. And five loans and five loans in default. Can you loan me that kind of money?

Dude, I love you, Eric, but no. I wouldn't make, I'd be hesitant to make that kind of loan to even a family member of of mine if things were that bad, right? Because you got the loans, but then you also have the, he knows. knows the money's messed up because he's the conservator on these cases where Alec is doing this and doing that. So you already know that Alec is having money management issues or cash flow issues. J.B., it came out today in the trial. Russell's real personality, and it didn't come out where somebody said they were trying to make a point about his personality,

that he's really not this low-key guy that he's pretty intense and will get in your face. Norris Lafeeb. He was testifying and said when he... He told the executive board that he's going to give the $680,000 to PMPED. Norris said, well, wait a minute here. We need to vote on it. And he said, Russell snapped and said, it's a done decision. I'm giving them the money.

We already decided and you can't do anything about it. It was a, like he was telling you, I make the decisions around here. I'm the big dog. I'm eating. I have had people in the banking industry, okay, with larger banks, smaller banks. Tell me about interactions that they had with Russell. And he's, the interactions that were described to me don't fit the mantra of quiet, meek, scared, humble Russell a feed. who sits on country front porches giving YouTube interviews. Yeah.

And in the opening state, I just remember this. In the opening statement, Bart mentioned that he did the football snacks on the weekend. Again? Yeah, no, I didn't,

I don't remember that. God, they're throwing that concessions in my face. If that's the one thing, if that's one thing that you have going for you, that somebody has to say over and over again about why you're a nice person, that you do concessions.

And as Liz pointed out, there's a lot of cash in those concessions. With him doing that video, I think it is telling, obviously, everybody has a right to plead the fifth and not self-incriminate. That is optional. It can be waived. But if you go and you do what Russell Lafitte did and putting out a handcraftic, like, like speech, basically, to the the public about why you're not guilty of what you're charged or whatever the case is, then you need to get up there in the hot seat and testify.

Don't you think he was trying to manipulate the justice system, J.B.? I absolutely do. I think that it was a strategic ploy to, again, it's a trend we're seeing from people who are only concerned about themselves in the hot seat. I still know I'm sorry there was no I'm sorry in that YouTube video for all the people who got screwed over and hopefully at minimum in court

he'd take the stand and I'm sorry apologies go a long way we're human and we like to see humanity and the one thing that I didn't see in Barton's opening statement was he was defiant he did the right thing it was not bank fraud it shouldn't be criminally charged

it should be applauded he could have come out and say you know what, Russell apologizes and feels really bad that he let his guard down. He's already said that he's negligent. And if he just came out and showed contrition for his client, say he is so sorry you're going to hear from him about it that it haunts him to this day that he didn't give his best as a conservative for these people. And it bothers him.

And he feels bad about it and he apologizes. His actions are not criminal. They weren't right. he regrets them. That would have been a different story, and I think that goes a long way when you can show humanity. Look, you're a legislature,

you codified that doctors can come to patients and their families and admit they've done something wrong and it can't be used in a legal action against them. Let's just see a little humanity, J.B. Final question. Should there be an Alec TV?

I'd probably have to watch it Just so I'd know what the heck was going on. But it raises a good point, which is that I think this case is so crazy. And bananas and insane. And all these people are just pulling out Hail Marys because that's all they have. I think that we're going to see another version of Russell TV in some way in this case. We're like, want to be journalists, want to have their little YouTube moments with these like, super gross people for their sides of the story because it's the only part that hasn't been told.

You know, I just cannot for the life for me understand why. You know, there's this, the only one person whose story hasn't been told. That's because he chose not to tell it. He chose not to say anything for all this time. That is a choice. That is an option that he exercised. And then to make it seem like when no one was willing to report what he had to say, he wasn't talking.

Yeah, he could have gone to so many TV journalists and sat down. He could have gone to a lot of people. He did like this and just went like Facebook Live. But it's very, very simple. Or he could have just, again, I apologize to anybody who was hurt. Yeah. You know, just some humility. But it's a trend.

Alec, no humility. Russell, no humility. No humility. You know, it's something with the group. Like, it's okay in life for people to make mistakes, including professionals, because nobody's perfect. But have enough humility if you screw up. Man, just at least apologize and mean it. This Cup of Justice bonus episode of the Murdoch Murders podcast is created and hosted by me, Mandy Matney,

With co-host Liz Farrell, our executive editor, and Eric Bland, attorney at law, aka the Jack Hammer of Justice. From Luna Shark Productions.