Murdaugh Murders Podcast - MMP #78: Evidence Stacks Up Against Alex Murdaugh In Week 2 Of Trial

Episode Date: February 2, 2023

We’re in week two of the trial against Alex Murdaugh and it’s been one heck of a high-speed rollercoaster ride as we learn more about the investigation into one of South Carolina’s most notorious crime sagas. Murdaugh Murders Podcast Co-hosts Mandy Matney and Liz Farrell dive head-first into the “mountain of evidence” that the Attorney General’s Office says proves Murdaugh killed his wife, Maggie, and son Paul in 2021. And just like we said, things aren’t adding up. In other BIG NEWS! Cup of Justice launched on its own feed Monday and hit #1 on Apple on the first day!!! Please consider giving our newly launched Cup of Justice a 5 star review on Apple & Spotify to help us in our mission to expose the truth wherever it leads!! COJ on Apple: https://apple.co/3HHT9av COJ on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3WMKkAI Consider joining our MMP Premium Membership community to help us SHINE THE SUNLIGHT! CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3BdUtOE SUNscribe to our free email list to get alerts on bonus episodes, calls to action, new shows and updates. CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3KBMJcP And a special thank you to our sponsors: Microdose.com, VOURI, and others. Use promo code "MANDY" for a special offer! Find us on social media: Facebook.com/MurdaughPod/ Instagram.com/murdaughmurderspod/ Twitter.com/mandymatney YouTube.com/c/MurdaughMurders Support Our Podcast at: https://murdaughmurderspodcast.com/support-the-show Please consider sharing your support by leaving a review on Apple at the following link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/murdaugh-murders-podcast/id1573560247 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I don't know if a Colleton County jury will ultimately convict Ellick Murdock of murdering his wife and son, but every day of the trial, we are getting more confidence in the prosecution as they carefully present an apparent mountain of evidence, piece by piece. My name is Mandy Matney. I have been covering the Murdock family for almost four years now. This is another special episode of the Murdock Murders podcast live from Walterboro as the Murdock Murders trial is underway. M&P is produced by my husband David Moses and written by my best friend, the extremely

talented Liz Farrell. Here we are in week two of Ellick Murdock's double murder trial. Before we start, our whole team just wanted to say thank you again to our fans. We were absolutely stunned this week when we launched Cup of Justice on its own feed and it landed in the number one spot on Apple. That is a big deal. I literally still can't believe it, but I know it is only possible because of you, our amazing listeners and fans and to the M&P premium community.

Liz and I were just talking about how much more interesting and encouraging covering this trial is with the help of y'all. In a lot of ways, watching this trial live with the M&P community feels like being in a newsroom again. We are learning so much with y'all as the trial unfolds and I'm just loving watching this community grow every single day. So obviously a lot has happened since we last talked with y'all. More than a dozen witnesses have testified for the prosecution so far.

Almost all of them law enforcement officers. And we're not going to lie, it's been slow going at times. The prosecution is continuing to lay its foundation by entering an exhaustive amount of evidence onto the record. That can sometimes be tedious and I'm sure it's putting some jurors to sleep. It is really important though and we have to give credit to Creighton Waters for his thoroughness. So this trial was scheduled to last three weeks, but it seems like there's a pretty

good chance it'll go longer. We've been told by someone with knowledge of the case to expect at least five weeks. The good news is that we've been finding out so much more about the investigation into the murders of Maggie and Paul. As you know, we have been on the lookout from the very beginning for anything that calls into question the integrity of the crime scene. Meaning the very preventable seeming mistakes that end up weighing in Elik's favor. We know how deep the family ties are to law enforcement.

And we know that at the time of the murders, Elik and others were under investigation for obstruction of justice in the 2019 boat crash involving Paul Murdock. As our Cup of Justice co-host Eric Bland has noted before, there is no such thing as a perfectly processed crime scene. Defense attorneys will always find fault in the collection of evidence. But the point is that we don't want law enforcement making it easy for them. So not unexpectedly, there have been some disappointing moments related to the crime scene testimony.

But so far, it's not as bad as we feared it would have been given how many times we've heard people who know the family speculate or joke about the potential manipulation of the scene. To be clear, we are not suggesting the crime scene was manipulated in any way. And this is not a statement of Elik's guilt or innocence. This is and has always been about the justice system here and how it seems to bow and curtsy for the powerful, especially in these parts for the Murdock family. As far as that mission goes, it has been really gratifying to finally get answers to so many of the questions we've had over the past year and a half.

We'll get into that more in a little bit. But let's start with the defense, Dick Harputlian and Jim Griffin. The talking heads on TV seem to mostly agree that Dick and Jim are legal heroes who are landing major blows in the state's case against Elik. We see things a little differently, or a lot differently, actually. There have been successes for Dick and Jim, though. The first is that it seems like there's a good number of people who believe that Elik's attorneys have raised major questions about how law enforcement handled the scene.

Like everything else in this case, it depends on how you look at it. The way we look at it is this. Dick and Jim have been effective in confusing matters and misleading the jury and the public because of how they've been asking their questions. This is their job. This is what Elik, or whoever, is paying them to do. So, for instance, we've been asked a lot about why investigators never searched the house at Moselle.

Before we get too far from that sentence, this is not true. Investigators did search the house. The reason some members of the public think this, though, is because Dick and Jim asked investigators whose responsibilities that night did not include searching the house whether they had searched the house. The answer was always predictably no, which looks bad because the average person doesn't necessarily understand that all law enforcement officers are not also homicide investigators. This apples and oranges line of questioning is expected, but it has been a learning experience

for us to see how well it has been working sometimes. In addition to their attempts to get evidence excluded, Dick and Jim's main goal right now seems to be to confuse the jury, as we said, but also to get jurors to ask themselves whether there could have been two shooters, whether law enforcement did screw up the scene to the point of unreliability, and whether investigators there had zeroed in on Elik from the very beginning and therefore were sloppy about collecting evidence of a potential other shooter, such as tire tracks and footprints. Perhaps the two biggest points the defense has scored so far were with special agent

Worley, a footprint and tire tread expert at Sled, who was awesome. She did great until the end. Turns out Sled did not include a ruler in their photos of potential footprints. That ruler is important because it shows scale. Also, one of the investigators left a bloody footprint in the feed room, where Paul was killed, and that's not good. It's things like this that create a potential for reasonable doubt. Back to the tire track evidence real quick.

This is another thing that doesn't add up. Dick and Jim want to exploit the fact that her first responder didn't photograph tire tracks, he noticed. But it's also important to know that even though Elik told that first responder, that he had only pulled into the areas by the kennels one time, that isn't correct. Elik, according to his own accounts, went to the kennels, saw that they were dead, and then went to the house where he called 911. Then he went back to the kennels.

That's at least two times offering a possible explanation for the other sets of tire tracks that the first responder did not photograph. But it's things like this that end up in the headlines without the full context. Like we said though, we have been overwhelmingly impressed with the witnesses so far. They come off as knowledgeable and fair, and most have been able to hold their own on cross-examination. Where Dick and Jim have lost points is in their attempts to get evidence excluded. On Tuesday, they moved to exclude testimony from Sled's phone data expert about Maggies and Paul's cell phone, and they fought it hard.

Judge Newman denied their motion though. Also, while they continue to insist that Elik was unfairly targeted by Sled, that investigators were aggressively focused on him from the beginning, the evidence continues to show that investigators handled Elik as gently as they would have a fuzzy baby lamb. We'll share those interviews with you in a bit. Now, one interesting thing we've been noticing is that while Dick and Jim have been challenging the integrity of the investigation from the standpoint of law enforcement,

they don't seem to have a problem with the fact that one of Elik's co-workers at the 14th Circuit Solicitor's Office was the one to download the data from Elik's phone, or the fact that certain members of the non-law enforcement community were at the crime scene. Nope, they don't have a problem with that. In fact, it kind of seems like Dick and Jim threw those guys a bone. So from what we heard before the trial, Moselle was a real who's who on the night of the murders and in the days after. Turns out that was true.

After Elik called 911, it seemed that every partner at PMPED showed up. Sled agent Jeff Croft testified this week that investigators not only had to work around the litany of PMPED attorneys who were at the scene for whatever reason, he indicated that some of those attorneys actually played some sort of role in the collection of evidence. Here is Jim Griffin's cross-examination of Special Agent Croft on Tuesday morning. On the 8th, you were asked to point out who's that person? Who's that person? Who's that person?

That's Ronnie Crosby. He's a lawyer. That's Mark Ball. He's a lawyer. That's Lee Cove. He's a lawyer. You remember that testimony? I do, sir.

Now, Elik wasn't lawyering up on the 8th. Those were his friends who came over to help him. Correct? They were given counsel to Elik as far as what we were doing. They were making phone calls to his counsel. That was the instruction which we gave. We were given. And they were assisting you, as you saw on the body cam,

go through the evidence that you ended up seizing in the gun room, right? They pointed out some items that they had concerns about. Did you find that their efforts were obstructing your investigation? They didn't obstruct our search within that gun room, no sir. Now, you tell me, would any other man out there who has returned home to find his wife and son murdered, who claimed to have checked their pulses, and who claimed to have tried to move one of their bodies despite the fact that he appeared to be completely clean with no blood or dirt on him, who, in the words of Crane Waters, not only told anyone who would listen

that this had to be related to the boat crash, those were among the first words out of his mouth? Would any other man like that be allowed to have his non-law enforcement officer co-workers walking around the crime scene and weighing in on the evidence collection? I think you know the answer to that. Now, the prosecution, let's talk about how they are doing so far. And where to start? Well, there's been a lot of big Creighton energy. Every day, Creighton has come in strong and has done a great job on redirect,

especially cleaning up on a lot of the confusion Dick and Jim have been trying to create. One of Creighton's bigger shining moments was on Monday when he methodically entered into the record a veritable arsenal from the Murdoch's gun room, as well as a long list of ammunition. Dick and Jim did not like this one bit and tried to get Judge Newman to stop it, claiming it was unfairly prejudicial. Judge Newman disagreed and allowed it after Creighton threw it in the defense's face that the evidence was necessary to show that counter to their claims, investigators did do a thorough job at the scene.

After all the guns and ammo were logged, Creighton then played a chilling interview with Ellick from June 10th, 2021, three days after the murders in the day that Randolph Murdoch died. All of that information about the guns started to make sense, but stick a pin in this for now, we'll get back to that in a second. For this, we have to start at the beginning. The evidence really speaks for itself, so we're going to play some of the recordings of Ellick on the day of and in the days after the murders, starting with the unredacted 911 call that we've never heard before.

This call was played for the jury last Thursday. The original call that was released by law enforcement had several parts with long gaps. It wasn't clear what exactly had been redacted back then. Now, we have a better idea of what we were missing in the summer of 2021 when this was first released to the public. The audio on the recording is really hard to hear, so we'll just summarize this with some bullet points. Right away, the dispatcher asked Ellick whether Maggie and or Paul shot themselves.

He answers, hell no. This is interesting because how does he know this? Later, sled agents wanting to verify that Paul didn't kill Maggie and then himself looked under Paul to see if he had fallen on a weapon. At this point, according to Ellick, he had found his wife and son's bodies, checked their pulses and tried to turn Paul over but couldn't. Meaning if there was a gun under Paul, Ellick couldn't have known that, unless he knew how they died.

Also knew, the dispatcher asked Ellick not to have a gun with him. It sounds like he slowly said, I will not do that. This becomes confusing later when she tells him to make sure his gun is put away when the officers get there. One interpretation of this moment when she asked him not to have a gun there is that the dispatcher was reminding him that there's a killer on the loose. He does not express fear for his own life nor confusion about what happened. It's also not clear why he went to the house before calling 911,

after allegedly discovering the bodies at the kennels. Was it to get a gun? Was the gun already in his vehicle? This might be important because the prosecution has indicated that there was biological evidence in Ellick's suburban. Did it get in there after Ellick found the bodies? Or did it get in there on the drive to his mother's house? Finally, during the 911 call, Ellick first floated the boat crash theory.

Unprompted, he told the dispatcher that Paul was being threatened. She asked for a name and he could not give her one. She asked him if he has reported these threats and Ellick says yes. And we will be right back. So a few hours after the 911 call, Ellick then met with Colleton County Sheriff's Office Detective Laura Rutland. Like we said in Cup of Justice, we felt like Detective Rutland was one of the strongest witnesses for the prosecution so far.

Rutland is an officer with the Colleton County Sheriff's Office who assisted sled on the night Maggie and Paul were killed. According to Rutland, Ellick appeared to be wet and sweating, but his clothes were dry. He also appeared to be clean with no blood on him after he said that he checked Paul for Paul and Maggie's pulses. I want to play this clip from court because it was powerful. Now when you were at the scene, when you first got there, did you see any footprints in the book?

No. Did you see any neat prints in the book? No. How would you describe the defendant's hands when you saw when you were interviewing him? How would you describe his hands? They were clean. Clean. How would you describe his arms?

They were clean. How would you describe his t-shirt? Clean. How would you describe his shorts? Clean. How would you describe his shoes? They were clean. Clean, meaning suspiciously clean, too clean.

If he checked their pulses and tried to move Paul, where was the blood? But the most captivating part of her testimony came when they played the audio recording of Ellick's initial interview with police. We learned that PMPD attorney Danny Henderson was representing Ellick on the 9th of June 7th. He was in the car with Bretland and Sled and Sled agent David Owen. I have to wonder if Danny knew about the PMPD confrontation that day on June 7th while he was representing Ellick. Was he sitting there thinking, hmm, this must be a coincidence?

Something I want to note before we play this interview. While trying to convey to the jury that Sled zeroed in on Ellick Murdock and had tunnel vision throughout their investigation, Dick describes Sled as aggressive while interviewing Ellick. So I ask you, does this sound like an aggressive police interview? All right, um, as I stated, I'm David Owen and I'm with Collin County and I'm with Sled. I hate to have to do this.

I understand. I totally understand. So you don't, you don't have any problem with it. So, um, just start the top, take your time. Um, like when I came back here, I mean, I pulled up and I could see him and, you know, I knew something was bad. I ran out. I knew it was really bad.

My boy over there, I could see. With his lawyer and detective Rutland sitting behind him in the backseat, Ellick launches right into a story. And I ran over to Maggie. Actually, I think I tried to turn Paul over first. You know, I tried to turn him over and I don't know, I figured it out. His cell phone popped out of his pocket. I started to try to do something with it, thinking maybe,

but then I put it back down really quickly. Then I went to my wife and I, I mean, I could see. Notice he said the cell phone popped out of his pocket. Ellick then very graphically described Paul's injuries, which I don't think are necessary to air, but listen to the language that Ellick uses here. Did you touch Maggie at all? I did.

I touched them both. I try to take, I mean, I try to do it as limited as possible, but I try to take their pulse on both of them. And, you know, I called 911 pretty much right away and she was very good. I talked to her. I told her I was going to get off the phone to call some family members. I did that.

Can you hear the lawyer in him as limited as possible? Granted, he is in shock, but it's odd. And again, he's telling the police this while he's wearing a shirt that simply does not match his story. What made you come out here tonight? I went to my mom's late stage Alzheimer's patient. My dad's in the hospital. My mom gets anxious when she does.

I went to check on them and Maggie, Maggie's a dog lover. She fools with the dogs. And I knew she'd gone to the kennel. I was at the house. I left the house and went to my mom's. Probably just a little while. Tried to call her when I left. Texted her no response.

He said I was at the house when Maggie was at the kennels. This is hugely problematic because the prosecution played audio in court where Elix's voice can be heard at 8.44 p.m., just minutes before Paul and Maggie were murdered. This was a big moment in court that we will unpack later. But I have to ask this. Why would he lie to police about being near the murder victims moments before they were murdered?

When I got back to the house, the house was obviously nobody was in there. So I figured they're still up here fooling around. Paul was going to be getting set up to plant our sunflower seeds, got sprayed and died and he was re-figuring to do to plant the sunflower seeds. So I came back up here and drove up and saw and called. Elix then was asked about relationships with Maggie and Paul. He said him and Maggie had a wonderful relationship. And it will be interesting to see if any witnesses can testify to that.

He also said that his relationship with Paul was as good as it could be. Then, Elix floated the bow crash theory again. This is important because this theory that the murders were an act of revenge for Mallory Beach's death spread quickly after the murders and made it to mainstream media. Have y'all been having any problems out here? Trust passers, people breaking in? None that I know of. The only thing that what comes to my mind is my son Paul was in a boat wreck a couple years ago.

He was charged with being arrested for being the driver. There's been a lot of negative publicity about that and there's been a lot of people online just really vile stuff. But when Paul's out and about, I mean people routinely. I don't think I know the full story because I don't think they give it to me. But I mean, he's been punched and hit and just attacked a lot. So, you know, but I mean, nothing like this. Yeah.

Any one person in particular or group of people I don't know. That you could think of? That's not that I know. No, sir. Has he, other than being assaulted, has he received any direct threats related to the boat accident? Oh, yes. All the time he gets recently.

Yes, I mean, he gets them all the time. Okay. He gets them all the time. What kind of, I mean, I'm going to kick your ass, you know, I've never been privy first hand, you know. Is that through social media? No, ma'am. It's mostly like if he goes out places is what, you know, what he goes out like somewhere.

He's in college. So if he goes out is what I understand. Not can find out better details from some of his younger friends on that. So notice here that Ellie can't name any specific threats about the boat crash. And he said no, ma'am when asked if there's anything on social media, which he knows is easy to reference. He then said that the threats were more like he would go out sometimes and come back with a black eye and tell his parents that it was because of the boat crash.

And I want to say something here because context is everything in this case. Alec Murdoch sued people for a living. I have a hard time thinking that the Murdochs would actually sit back and casually accept their son getting assaulted without reporting it and filing a personal injury lawsuit. Then Alec pointed police in another odd direction. He said that the groundskeeper recently told Paul a very weird story about working with undercover Navy SEALs to checks notes kill Black Panthers. It was really bizarre and I'm not even going to play the whole thing because it's a waste of time.

So Alec told police about how he spoke to the groundskeeper on the phone that night, which the defense told us about in a previous alibi statement. The groundskeeper is on the witness list and I sure do hope we can hear what was said on that phone call. Alec told police that the groundskeeper was off of work that day. Yeah and I sent him a message to text me earlier today about the sunflowers and he called me back when I was on the way to my mom's house. Did you talk to him at that time? Briefly I was on the phone with a lawyer friend of mine named Chris Wilson from Bambergs. I told him I'd call him back tomorrow. See him in the morning.

Wow really interesting that he brought up Chris Wilson to police. This shows how confident Alec was in himself at the time. Chris likely knew that something was up with Alec at this point. That Alec had misappropriated fees from PMPED. Chris says that he was fooled but he likely knew that those missing fees were being questioned by PMPED. So why would Alec point police to Chris Wilson like that? Speaking of, we learned in testimony this week that Chris Wilson was on scene the day after the murders in the gun room at Moselle while sled agents were processing evidence. Several PMPED partners were there at the same time including Ronnie Crosby who knew about the confrontation of PMPED that day and knew that they had been asking Alec for the missing

fees. That Alec owed PMPED for the case that he split with Chris Wilson. How did all of these guys on scene who shouldn't have been there in the first place by the way not put two and two together missing fees, confrontation, Alec's money problems then Alec's two family members were suddenly murdered and did any of them tell police about this? This is what I really want to know as it looks like Newman is going to allow evidence of the financial crimes into trial were the PMPED partners and Chris Wilson honest and forthcoming about what they knew? So back to the interview the sled agent then asked Alec about weapons that they store and Alec explains that they have an arsenal of guns at Moselle. And the shotgun that you had when

deputies pulled up where did that come from? I went to the house and I got a gun probably overreacting but and was that when you pulled up and saw them? No I mean I came out and I mean I called 911 first talked to them for a little while then I told her told her that I was that I was going to go to the house okay and that I would let the authorities know when they got here that I had a gun okay I want to point out that Alec is saying here that he found his wife and son brutally murdered on his very large and very dark hunting lodge and he said that he was probably overreacting when he grabbed a gun for protection. The officer then asked Alec about Maggie and Paul's schedules that day. What was their schedule today? When did they get home?

My son works for my brother and he was coming home to deal with the sunflowers. He got here pretty early because he and I rode around looking at everything for a good little while probably 45 minutes to an hour. Maggie had things she did in Charleston and she had a doctor's appointment in Charleston and she got back here it was fairly late. Was it dark yet when Paul got home? No Paul got home early. Early okay so before our dinner time oh yes ma'am. So there was a Snapchat video recorded on Paul's phone at 7 56 p.m showing Alec at Moselle. That video is important because of what Alec is wearing and we'll talk about that in a minute. So back to the interview the sled agent asked Alec a question a lot of you have had

were there any cameras at Moselle and of course Alec has a vague answer. Do you have any cameras on your property? I have deer cameras but none you know around up here. Where are they at? On different deer stands. Okay so deep in the woods? Well not necessarily deep in the woods some of them are in fields and okay um but I don't there's none that you know are near here. Okay. Huh convenient also if they really didn't have any security cameras to protect any of their property that shows that they weren't concerned at all about intruders and that speaks to the power that they had. Finally the officers asked about what Alec did that day but he conveniently left out a big part of his day the PMPD confrontation. What did you do today? Were you with the officer? No I was

home I came home Paul and I messed around I uh I was up at the house I laid down took a nap on the couch probably I don't know 25 30 minutes I got up I called Maggie didn't get an answer and I left to go to my mom's she'd said she might ride with me but she normally doesn't when I go over there um and I think I texted her and she's very good about answering the phone so that was odd or calling me back so that was odd but it wasn't that big a deal. Now what time was that? What time was what? That you sent her a text message. All right um I texted her 908 going to check on MB right back and then I texted her at 947 that must be when I started to come back I think I called her before that but let me make sure

pretty sure that I called her 945 and then I tried Paul and then no I think that was riding I think that might have been riding over there. So slight Lieutenant Britt Dove testified about the phone data this weekend court and it sort of matches what Elick is saying about his communications. Maggie's last text was at 849 pm her phone's last recorded steps were at 855 pm her phone changed orientation meaning it moved at 906 pm the exact time Elick started up his suburban to head to his mother's home and seconds after Maggie's phone orientation changed

she missed a call from Elick Murdoch and at 908 pm she got a text from Elick saying going to check on M be right back. Elick called her again and she didn't answer then Elick texted Maggie Murdoch for the last time at 947 pm call me babe it was never read. Chilling right? Also Dove's testimony never mentioned that Elick tried to communicate with Paul during that time frame but Dove did tell us about the last text messages that Paul Murdoch sent he was texting with a girl who he was going to the movies with she said that she didn't want to see a sad movie Paul wanted to see a star is born no I need something happy she said it was the last text he ever read

also chilling that same agent testified that Elick had two phones and his calls appeared to be deleted between June 4th and 10 25 pm on June 7th 2021 we'll be right back Elick's second interview with law enforcement was on June 10th 2021 the same day his father Randolph Murdoch the third died this interview was conducted before his death at John Marvin's hunting grounds in Barnwell County sled agents David Owen and Jeff Croft took Elick into a sled vehicle and interviewed him there attorney Jim Griffin Paul's lawyer at the time by the way was in the car representing Elick as Eric Blant has pointed out Jim Griffin probably should not have allowed Elick to sit for this or any other interview with law enforcement

at the same time Elick was being interviewed here Randy Murdoch John Marvin Murdoch and Buster Murdoch were in separate vehicles with sled agents also being interviewed and asked for their phones Elick's interview started off in typical Elick style with him on the phone when he gets off the phone sled asks Elick for details about his day before discovering his wife's and son's bodies he again does not mention the confrontation over the missing 792 thousand dollar fee at PMPED earlier that day nor does he mention his father's health which is the reason he left PMPED which is supposedly the reason he left PMPED earlier that day right in the middle of the confrontation instead he seems to have drawn a blank about what his Monday was like

all right um so when we spoke the other night all right I got kind of a basic overview yes sir um and it was pretty traumatic that's okay I know you need to ask me you asked me what you need to so I just I want you to let's start Monday morning and and take me through your day Monday morning uh you know that big Monday morning um my wife and my older son had gone to the baseball games that weekend um you know I really can't remember what I did Monday I know I went to work but you know I think I was dragging a little bit from the weekend and but I went to work um I usually mess

around on my farm and then I go to work um I was at work um you know the office in Hampton or yes sir yes sir is that my office in Hampton um you know I mean I was just at my office doing legal work yes sir I'm sure I can go back and probably recreate some specifics if you need me to but I can't like sit here and recall on the top of my head exactly what I was working on I know one thing I was working on um was we had some we had some big motions coming up in a um demeaning energy case I was getting ready for those and uh I was getting ready for some motions I'm a defendant in a civil case involving my son I told you about the boat wreck yes sir

and there were some motions coming up in that on Thursday and I was mostly just getting ready for those things I'm gonna question as to what he was doing the day of the murders that is correct yes sir and he said he was working on some motions in the dominion energy case and then also where he's a personally a defendant in the boat case is that correct that is correct that's what he said he was doing the day of the murders is that right that is correct yes thank you other jump uh what time did you leave the house to go to the office I'm not sure uh who was at the house when you left to go to my office that morning or when you got up who was at the house

I'm sure my wife was um and I can't remember Blanca has made it out there yet or not and who is Blanca Blanca is our housekeeper okay okay and she comes different she doesn't have set hours but she comes most days um she'll be able to tell you if I was there when when I when she left or not I just I can't remember and so you went to the office you did you know some motions uh what time did you leave the office what was the name of the housekeeper Blanca yeah when I when she left or not I just I can't remember and so you went to the office you did you know some motions uh what time did you leave the office

I left a little bit earlier than normal because my son paul was coming home okay um because he had not been with us during the weekend and he was coming home we were going to um we were going to replant some sunflowers the next day okay and so he was calibrating doing and getting everything ready um so he got home a little early I left a little early so he and I could knock around and we knocked around for you know just doing things we like to do out there you know we're riding around looking at um um food plots looking you know looking for hogs a little bit of target shooting just bullshit yeah while playing this interview for the jury Creighton would stop it every now and again to ask special agent Croft to clarify or repeat

what he heard elix say it is around this point that Creighton stopped the recording with Croft to ask him to repeat what elix was doing with paul that afternoon then Creighton asked do people often use 300 blackouts to shoot hogs Croft said they do this is when Creighton started to place the rifle that the state says killed Maggie near or with elix on the day of the murders we'll talk more about that in a second here elix starts to build a timeline for sled he says paul got to the house around 5 p.m and the two rode around for about 20 to 30 minutes or maybe an hour so after y'all got finished riding around try to take me through the rest of the evening all right um you know at some point we were all back at the house together um Maggie had gotten home

and you know we sat down we ate supper which we usually suffer together um so the one thing I remember I don't know how much detail y'all want so if I start talking about something that you don't need just tell me and I'll move to something else the more detail the better so paul has been having um high blood pressure and his mama was worried sick about it so we were actually you know this was a direct thing getting him he'd unlike to go to doctors making him go get his blood pressure checked his feet is holding up recently wow so you know that was it was a big huge deal okay you know we hung around the house for a little while uh I know that Maggie went to the kennels um I don't know exactly where paul went but he left the house too okay how did Maggie

get down to the kennels I don't know exactly but on normal occasions she would drive drive a buggy drive a four-wheeler or very common for her to walk okay how about paul much paul wasn't much of a walker but he would use all of the others um but I mean it could be anyway you know I don't know exactly I wish I could help you with that so so they left and went down to the kennels well Maggie went to go to the kennels and paul left and I'm assuming you know I'm assuming paul left because of you know what happened I mean I'm assuming paul went to the kennels okay um and what did you do once once Maggie and paul left I stayed in the house after Maggie and paul went to the kennels he stayed in the house this is a big deal again

Ella consisted he was not at the kennels that night it wasn't until sled was able to crack paul's phone that they found out this was a lie and when I say lie I mean lie dick and jim are almost laughing off this discrepancy as a minor issue so what a manager's lost his family isn't going to remember the timeline perfectly and that's true and understandable but this isn't just a matter of forgetting that you went outside to talk to your husband before cooking dinner and having a normal night together elix doesn't just say he wasn't at the kennels he appears to be concocting an entire reality about how Maggie and paul were there but he was not I mean I'm assuming paul went to the kennels okay um and what did you do once once Maggie and paul left I stayed in the house

and I was watching tv looking at my phone and I actually fell asleep on the couch okay and what time did you you know I don't know exactly what time I woke up but when y'all get my phone you know I think one of the first things I did when I got up was called Maggie because I was going to my mom's um and I know I texted her because I checked my phone and what time we say the text was Jim like 906 yeah I got it written down for you I showed you the other night didn't I yes I got this so you know I texted her so I called her just before that and I mean she she did an answer at that point um and I left to go to my mom's okay y'all just have to look I don't I'm not sure if I called paul well and that and that's why we're

getting the phone so we can nail down the times and right and everything next to ellie tells sled that he thought he heard Maggie and paul pull up to the house introducing the idea that maybe what he was hearing was the real killer but then it gets kind of weird first he admits that people don't just come to mozel randomly and second he suggests that maybe instead of Maggie and paul pulling up it was a wildcat that hangs out on the property the thing to understand here is that after 9 o 2 p.m. ellick began calling Maggie frantically five times in an hour he also texted her so after thinking he heard them pull up and seeing that they hadn't and then not being able to get them on the phone he drives past the kennels to his mother's house without stopping to check in

but I really don't think you know I'm just throwing that out because it was in my mind yeah no that's fine all right that's totally fine I left I drove to I drove to my mom's um I checked on my mom she lives right out here correct she lives without me to check on my mom talked with shelly for a few minutes you know shelly is the caregiver okay so all right so where are we all right so then I left your mom's and making phone calls I left my mom's and I went back home I got to the house I went inside nobody was there I got in the car I went back to the kennels and you know and when you went back to the kennels besides Maggie and paul did you see anybody any cars I didn't see anything right then no sir take your time you know I saw

Maggie and I saw paul laying down I knew you know I didn't know you know I knew it was bad I went over there and you know I saw it yeah and you know I called 911 and what made you decide to go back to the house and get a gun yeah I this thing the whole scene had me freaked out okay did you you take your car back up there did you run up there no I drove okay the Murdochs were known for driving around with shotguns in their trucks so it's surprising to hear that elik had to return to the house to get a gun it is also surprising that he wouldn't have thought to bring a gun with him in the first place because it was now after 10 p.m and according to him he had not seen or heard from Maggie or paul

since before his tv couch nap mozelle is very remote and it is very dark outside at night it's almost absurd to believe that he came home saw that the house wasn't lit up saw at least Maggie's car and that Maggie and paul were not there and didn't think to grab a gun before heading down to the kennels again there is no right way for someone to react to the horrific and violent loss of family members but elik's casual conclusion of he got the gun because the whole scene had him freaked out feels like the scene kind of understainment he made to detective Rutland two days earlier when he told her that he got the gun from the house and that might have been an overreaction next sled asks elik what paul was like as a son I can tell you this and right around with paul

he was his normal bright you know just he was a really great kid so being a dad myself what was the biggest issue you had with paul when you had when you had to call him down and and scold him or correct him what was the biggest issue you had with paul you know I mean I irresponsibility you know he was ADHD he was bad about jumping from and he had so many wonderful qualities now but he was bad about jumping from he'd start this maybe not quite finish it move do something else and you know you'll find out from his friends he had clothes strung out all over the state he did that with clothes he did that with guns he did that with my boats lost so he lost life he he would misplace stuff okay

yes everywhere everywhere I mean he would go off for the weekend sometimes he wouldn't pack clothes because he's got clothes in somebody's house I mean paul paul was one he like he wouldn't understand how you go out you know you and one you and a girl go out on a date he he he he liked the crowd who was his girlfriend he didn't have a girlfriend right now okay elik tells sled that Maggie usually cooks for him and the boys but that she had their housekeeper Blanca make dinner that night and he says that Maggie and he never argue according to sources with direct connections to the family elik had a horrible temper and over the years his fights with Maggie had sometimes been known to get physical how is your relationship with Maggie very good

as good as it could possibly be I mean you know we had our issues but wonderful and I'm just trying to understand the family dynamic I understand you got to do what you got to do I promise what was y'all's biggest arguments would what your biggest are the things that y'all would argue about the most what would they be over I mean we really didn't argue but the basic I'd say the really the only thing that caused any friction between us is she was always wanting us to go and I love her in-laws I mean they're wonderful people I love her death she was always wanting to go there stay there a little longer than me and the boys wanted to stay that was really and and it really you know she'd get really she'd get ticked off yeah you mean her

family you said her in-law you mean her family I mean her family I mean we really didn't argue about much there and how much to argue about I mean I'm sure there was an occasional thing that came up that we argued about but I can't tell you what it is I can't think of it I'm sorry I mean she was a wonderful girl and a wonderful wife and she was a great mom uh she you know she didn't work and she always said it was her job since she was privileged enough not to work she was gonna make sure she took care of me and the boys and I mean she did everything she did absolutely everything

I'm sorry no no you never like to do that I'm good you go ahead that afternoon or during the time you were you and uh Paul were right yes sir did y'all did you go up to around the kennels or anything did y'all do anything up toward the kennels I'm sure we did you know my that's our main shock is you know right there but you know we're normally in there for long times tinkering and I will say that particular day we we did not tinker around there a bunch you know

okay when y'all rode around the farm what we all we all in the truck or well we actually in two trucks we rode in one truck and then we rode in another truck some one was the black one and one was the white one that was out there as you can tell there was a lot of vehicular action at mozel and vehicular action tends to leave a lot of different tire marks next sled asks elik if he knows what kind of weapons he has this goes back to what we told you earlier about creighton's exhaustive inventory of guns creighton not only was showing the jury that this is a family with a lot of expensive weapons that have scopes and lights and all

sorts of gadgetry on them they were also easily accessible and loaded and ready to go they had a ton of ammo and they did a lot of shooting for fun just outside the family's gun room in fact sled found at least five cartridges that the state says match the cartridges from the 300 blackout that killed maggie on wednesday we found out those five cartridges were from april 2021 when paul and a friend shot that weapon the one that would later kill maggie outside the family's gun room another thing creighton is showing how there were potentially guns all over the property the night of june 7th 2021 including at the kennel when elik talks to sled about the 300 blackouts he says he doesn't remember if paul had one or not the defense wants the jury to believe that

the only 300 blackout the family owned was confiscated by sled that night they also want the jury to believe that paul's habit of leaving guns laying around and at friends houses is what ultimately led to the real killer getting their hands on that gun and using it to kill maggie did y'all keep any guns out at the kennels it didn't keep guns out there but there were always guns out there okay you know um i mean and i'm gonna be honest with you we were all a little bit bad about it but paul was the worst you know he was the worst so this is where i'd like to stop for the two gunman theorists people who have based their opinion that there were two gunmen simply on the fact that two different weapons were used that night and one person two guns

is hard to understand but in elec's own words there were generally guns down at the kennels which again adds some mystery as to why he needed to go back to the house that night to retrieve a weapon he would leave a gun out there he would leave anything anywhere and you know it was not unusual for there to be guns out there did y'all take the um but like i can tell you that i mean they told me that 300 blackout was used in this that 300 blackout you know it was it was not out there interesting right the man who just said that paul left guns everywhere who just said that there were generally guns at the kennels and they were scattered about who said earlier that he had been out riding with paul looking for hogs which paul tended to hunt

with a 300 blackout who said he can't remember being at the kennels that night at all and only quote maybe we were out there during the afternoon riding around but he wasn't sure who said he was at the ball games that weekend with his family and who we heard stayed at the edisto beach house that weekend was suddenly certain that the weapon that killed his wife was not at the kennels that night so paul said that one um was stolen or lost and it was some time ago did was that reported anywhere yeah it wasn't officially reported because i wasn't totally convinced it was stolen okay you know as opposed to lost but i mean you know i mean there was people told about it yeah i know that i told john beddingfield about it

um i know that i told some other local officers about it you know just in case it turned up in a drug thing but i didn't do an official report okay the the two that you you bought for the boys that each one of them had one and the one paul lost is that the only ones that you ever you have you have well i'm gonna tell you this i thought we replaced i thought that paul got another one replaced the buster said we did it but i was certain that we did but i mean my memory is this been going for a substantial while too remember there were three 300 blackouts elick purchased two of them around christmas 2016

one for buster and one for paul but paul's went missing in 2017 there was another 300 blackout purchased for paul in 2018 which maggie picked up to keep me straight let's do this buster's 300 blackout is the 2016 gun that one is black and had a thermal scope on it it is now considered states evidence the one paul used is the 2018 gun and sometimes he did use his brother's gun the state said that the 2018 gun was the one that was used to kill maggie that one is now missing on tuesday dnr officer and gun salesman and murdoch cousin john beddingfield testified to the existence of the 2018 gun but it turns out that cousin john could not find the paperwork for that third 300 blackout sale the gun that killed maggie but investigators were able to trace the

sale back to him through a canceled check of maggie's meaning maggie appears to have bought the gun that was used to end her life elick's equivocation on this is either because he truly doesn't remember or he's not sure what records existed to show that the family did in fact have two 300 blackouts and you say you thought you replaced it after he lost it i'm all but buster says you didn't i believe that we did okay i mean there'll be a record of that on it should be yes sir i know we replaced it but you know i wouldn't i know we replaced it because i wouldn't replace it again or maybe i just think that now i don't know but i'm certainly replaced it next sled asks elick

about cb row the groundskeeper he told detective ruttland might be a suspect in this the same groundskeeper that curtis eddie smith had told investigators that he had heard was having an affair with maggie and had gotten into a gunfight with paul and maggie the night of june 7 2021 elick tells sled that he hasn't yet fired cb row but also that he doesn't think that cb row is the suspect sled then tells elick that they don't believe these shootings were random and you know and i'm just being in law enforcement for so long and and working these type cases and i don't know the island tenera area but talking to collin and county and seeing the property and how isolated it is finding somebody that's just going to randomly come up there that late at night that

doesn't know the property you know that's so of course i have to look within and then start working my way out so you feel like it's not random you feel like it's intentional i mean playing i don't know what to feel right now and i i hate to say that i i don't know what to feel right now so do y'all have any good clues sled tells elick that they're still waiting on the autopsy report that they've taken a number of dna swabs collected a number of cartridges and shells and weapons from moza and interviewed about a hundred people so far elick thanked them for all the work they were doing they get a dna swab from him in that car and then they ask if he knows paul's passcode now we found out in

testimony on tuesday it took until march 2022 for investigators to access paul's phone they used the latest technology to crack it but ultimately a member of the secret service decided to try something he tried paul's birthdate and it worked but here's elick on the passcode and how super super secret it was and that's why you know who paul was with i want to tell you one thing while i'm thinking about it yeah paul was really an incredibly intuitive little dude and i mean he was like a little detective and i mean paul would you know he you know what i'm trying to say yeah which leads me to let's go back to paul right quick while we're on him

so we have his phone do you know his passcode i don't and i'm gonna tell you this right now there's a few people i can point you to yeah but i can tell you that he was super super super secretive with that i mean cell phone i asked his brother if he knew it did the ones that they got the other day didn't don't get any other day not for paul's phone okay i know they got i know they got maggie's code i know maggie's and and it works or it worked yeah i i've not gotten it but there's a lot of people out moving parts that's you know may have gotten that information so we'll follow up on it if you you believe somebody gave us a code for paul's or a possible code for paul's

you know maybe it was maggie's i don't okay but i'll find out i will try to find out paul's code but it will surprise me greatly if somebody knows it elec tells them again about his nap and when he last saw maggie and paul when when y'all when you and paul got back to house because maggie's there and y'all eat supper which has been prepared and you say you said you laid down and took a little nap and when you got up maggie and paul was gone or did they leave when you laid down i believe that i'm not i'm not sure but they weren't there when you woke up around the nine o'clock mark or so when when you made the call to maggie to let her know you joined

no nobody was in that house when i when i left so i'm just trying to narrow down the last time that paul and you saw paul and maggie's when y'all were eating supper yes sir sled then asks elec how he tried to turn paul's body whether it was away from the kennels which elec said it was sled also asks if paul and maggie were left or right handed and where they usually stored their phones elec jokes that paul stored his phone in his hand but then elaborated that he also kept it in his pocket and truck for the question about maggie elec pauses and then doesn't answer the agent fills in the blank for him and says anywhere she could elec says yes sir then immediately asks this next question did y'all get fingerprints on her phone

i haven't gotten that back yet finally the june 10th 2021 interview contains a moment that has caused quite a reaction from people some people hear elec say one thing and other people hear him say another thing and then you definitely saw a traumatic picture and and i know it's not hard or not not easy i know it's hard and sitting there talking today is is tough it's just so bad it's just so bad this is where creighton stopped the recording and asked sled agent jeff croft who was present during this interview with elec that day what he heard you asked the defendant

about a traumatic picture that he saw paul and maggie what did he say it's just so bad i did him so bad i did him so bad yes sir the debate over whether elec says i or they raged on social media monday evening one talking head opined that elec said they and that the confusion like becoming from his southern accent on tuesday jim griffin cross-examined special agent croft a man who grew up in the same area elec did and has a similar if not same southern accent and you testified that alex said on the video captured by audio that it was so bad i did him so bad that's what you testified to yesterday yes sir that is what i testified to now are you 100 confident that alex said i did him so bad rather than they did him so

bad i am 100 confident in what i heard and i interpreted him as saying jim asks him why no one followed up on what some might construe to be an unintentional confession a number of people have told us that at this point in the investigation sled agents were trying to keep elec talking and it would have been a bad idea for them to challenge elec on that statement at that point in time jim continued to press agent croft on this and in august 11 2021 interview sled agents didn't follow up on that alleged confession from elec either he mentioned to agent croft that after hearing elec say this they then moved on to have a seemingly casual conversation about funeral arrangements that day on june 10th jim asked agent croft whether he had prepared for his cross

examination today by reviewing the court transcript croft said no here again the defense loses their narrative about sled being aggressive and targeting elec next jim replays the clip in real time and asks croft whether he hears it their way did you hear now they or i i will still testify that my hearing i hear i then jim slows the tape down in one of the creepiest moments of this murder trial your honor we'd like to play it again at one third speed to slow it down it's just the same thank you foundation late for who's manipulating it how it's being manipulated i think obviously we have it in real time but there would have to be some additional foundation play it one third speak

and so did you hear they then no sir i did not okay so like we said a lot has happened and a lot is happening on wednesday as we were wrapping up this episode sleds cell phone expert testified we will unpack a lot of those details in a later episode but there were a few big revelations i want to mention again the first is as we noted before elik appears to have deleted his call log from june 4th 2021 through 10 27 p.m. june 7th 2021 the night of the murders the second is that a video on paul's phone sent to his friend rogan

gibson places elik at the kennels at 8 44 p.m. that night this obviously contradicts elix alibi the defense appears to have landed some points on cross examination of this witness regarding the movement of elik and maggie's phone that night like i said we have a lot to unpack there and want to look at all of the data further before we tell you about that but we can already see that this is information that the two gunman theorists are happy to hear later that afternoon paul's best friend rogan gibson who has known the murdochs his entire life and considered them a second family testified that it was elix voice he heard in the background during the four-minute phone call with paul down at the kennels he also testified that he was not aware of the replacement

of the 300 blackout that paul got in 2018 that even though the guns were left around mozel unsecured he doesn't recall of ever hearing of anything getting stolen and that paul was never seriously threatened by anyone in connection to the bow crash then paul's close friend will loving delivered several bombshells the first is that there were absolutely two 300 blackouts and he had not heard that one was missing as the defense maintains before the murders he testified that in april 2021 he and paul went to ace hardware and bought a scope to put on paul's 300 blackout and that they stood outside of the murdoch's gun room and mozel to shoot it this is exactly where sled agents found those spent cartridges that match the ones from the gun that killed maggie

under cross exam though will said that he did not use or see paul's 300 blackout after that unredirect the state again played a snapchat video of elik and paul driving around mozel the night he was murdered will loving said it was from around 7 p.m. craton hopped on the opportunity and asked him about the clothes elik was wearing that night he said long sleeve and a shirt and those particular shoes will said yes sir meaning on the evening of the murders elik was wearing different clothes from what he had on when the first deputy arrived on the scene we expect the defense will have a who cares response to this and we expect the prosecution will visit this original elik outfit again but we don't know where this will land with the jury because of right now it doesn't

appear that anyone asked elik about whether or not he had changed his clothes that night lastly wednesday ended with the biggest craton energy we have seen yet in an effort to show that in may 2021 the murdochs were a happy and loving family with no murderous members jim griffin played a video from elik's birthday party chris wilson was at that party and craton seized on that and redirect he replayed the video and here's what happened who's that guy in the green shirt do you know that's chris wilson you know chris wilson's relationship to alec wilson or alec murdoch yeah i think they're best friends best friends best friends should do each other right isn't that correct and then he did this and then he

did this did you know anything about alex finances um no i did not did you know anything about his law practice um no i did not did you know anything about where he gets his money no i did not did you know anything about where he was spending his money no i did not did you know anything about what his bank account balances were no sir i did not did you know anything about the debt that he was carrying do you know anything about that no sir did you know the specific things that were going on in the boat case the week that paul and maggie were murdered no sir do you know anything about civil discovery and and how it can expose financial information no sir do you know anything at all about him being confronted on june 7th 2021 about of jack did you know anything

about him being confronted on the morning of june 7th 2021 about $792,000 of missing fees from his law firm your honor but totally improper this is overruled did you know anything about that no i did not you know any of the facts of those things that i just asked you about no sir cretin took a chance knowing that jim would be there with a hot and fast objection which judge newman overruled and it looks like he was able to get elix financial crimes admitted on the record something dick and jim had something dick and jim fought hard against and that is it for this week we have a long way to go and a long list of witnesses to hear from so it's hard to know where this trial might end up but we will be there for every step of the way stay tuned and stay in

the sunlight you the murdoch murders podcast is created and hosted by me mani matney produced by my husband david moses and liz ferrell is our executive editor from luna shark productions