Murdaugh Murders Podcast - MMP #80: Alex Murdaugh Trial Week Four: How many lies will the jury buy?

Episode Date: February 16, 2023

We’re in the middle of week four of the Alex Murdaugh trial and it’s been – very on brand in the last week. Since the last podcast, the courtroom drama has been cranked up several notches.  In this episode 80 of the Murdaugh Murders Podcast, Mandy Matney and Liz Farrell are diving deep into Maggie’s sister’s testimony, some revelations about SLED’s investigation and doors that Jim probably didn’t want opened. In other BIG NEWS! Cup of Justice launched on its own feed and hit #1 on Apple on the first day!!! Please consider giving our newly launched Cup of Justice a 5 star review on Apple & Spotify to help us in our mission to expose the truth wherever it leads!! COJ on Apple: https://apple.co/3HHT9av COJ on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3WMKkAI Consider joining our MMP Premium Membership community to help us SHINE THE SUNLIGHT! CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3BdUtOE SUNscribe to our free email list to get alerts on bonus episodes, calls to action, new shows and updates. CLICK HERE to learn more: https://bit.ly/3KBMJcP And a special thank you to our sponsors: Microdose.com, VOURI, and others. Use promo code "MANDY" for a special offer! Find us on social media: Facebook.com/MurdaughPod/ Instagram.com/murdaughmurderspod/ Twitter.com/mandymatney YouTube.com/c/MurdaughMurders Support Our Podcast at: https://murdaughmurderspodcast.com/support-the-show Please consider sharing your support by leaving a review for MMP on Apple at the following link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/murdaugh-murders-podcast/id1573560247 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I don't know what story Dick and Jim will tell the jury. Dick and Jim will tell the jury to get them to overlook the long list of Ellick Murdoch's lies. But after three and a half dramatic weeks, with a denied request for a mistrial, accusations of affairs, bombshell testimony, and even a bomb threat that evacuated the courthouse, I am sure this is far from over, and there is no predicting what the jury will decide. My name is Mandy Matney. I have been covering the Murdoch family for almost four years now.

This is another special episode of the Murdoch Murders podcast. Live from Walterboro as the Murdoch Murders trial is underway, MMP is produced by my husband David Moses and written by my best friend Liz Farrell. Well we are in the middle of week four of the Ellick Murdoch trial and it has been very on brand in the last week. Since the last podcast, the courtroom drama has been cranked up several notches. Just hours after releasing episode 79, court was suddenly interrupted by a reported bombscare at the Colletin County Courthouse and it feels like it's been non-stop drama ever since.

Sled confirmed that the Colletin County court personnel received the threat last Wednesday and the entire courthouse was evacuated for about two hours. Thankfully the bombscare did not delay court too much, but it was a chilling reminder of how much fear and attention is surrounding this case and unfortunately increasing the odds of a mistrial. And I hope that Sled will find and charge the person who is responsible for the bomb threat to show the world that terroristic threats will not be tolerated in South Carolina. And the drama only escalated from there as a prosecution is creeping closer to resting

this week. A couple days after the bomb threat, Dick Harputlian made a motion for a mistrial during Blanca's testimony. And yes, that's THE Blanca and we will talk about her in a minute. The motion was ultimately denied by Newman, but it definitely initiated the worries of a mistrial, which continued on Monday with the dismissal of two jurors due to COVID. That means that we only have three alternate jurors to go, which is very concerning. The longer the trial goes, the state runs the risk of losing more jurors.

And speaking of concerning, as the state wraps up its last few days of testimony, we have got to talk about Sled's investigation. I'm going to be honest, I've had a lot of questions while watching this trial, especially in the last few days. Why wasn't Elik treated like a suspect initially when he was the husband in the first person to find the bodies? Why wasn't all of Moselle treated as a crime scene? Why were Elik's law partners and friends allowed on the crime scene?

What happened with the blood spatter evidence? Why is it not entered into court? Why did it take until September to search Almeida? Why was this investigation so slow? Why no urgency when two people had been murdered? And why was Elik still allowed to carry a solicitor's office badge when he had lied multiple times to police about the murder of his wife and son when he was the only suspect? I think I know the answer and I hate to say it because I feel like a broken record right

now. I believe it's power, privilege and the two systems of justice that allowed for these kinds of mistakes that gave this kind of leeway to a man like Elik Murdoch. If Elik were an average man, I think he would have been hauled in immediately. I don't think any of his friends would have been allowed anywhere near the crime scene. I think charges would have happened a lot sooner and I think the investigation would be a lot more complete. And if Elik Murdoch were an average man with a public defender, I think this trial would

have been over a long time ago. But Elik is not average, so here we are in the middle of week four with no end in sight. I want to be clear though, I don't think the anomalies in the investigation mean that the state has no case. If anything, the holes in the investigation have benefited Elik. One of the questions the defense asked the lead sled agent on Wednesday was why Almeida wasn't searched that night. That sled agent had a quick answer because there was no probable cause to do so.

Elik was not a suspect yet. And that's really the issue here. Sled did not consider Elik a suspect until there was no choice. This is where the evidence took them. We keep saying it because it's true. It would have been much easier for the state if Elik was not the suspect. The other thing I want to mention is what we've been saying again and again. Solicitor Duffy Stone didn't recuse himself for more than two months.

That means his office, the office Elik worked for, was calling the shots. Were agents shut down when they suggested getting warrants for the powerful and all money former solicitor rained off Murdoch's home? Were agents hindered in the collection of evidence because of Duffy's involvement? We already know that his involvement caused a delay in the retrieval of Elik's phone data and that led to some information getting overwritten. So again, what we're seeing right now with the questions being raised about the thoroughness of the investigation.

We think most of that is attributable to the deference that was being paid to the Murdochs and their powerful friends. During this trial, we have seen hundreds of pieces of evidence. We have heard from dozens of witnesses. And while it's been a roller coaster and a bit haphazard, I think the pieces are finally coming together. And the prosecution is stringing together a story that will make sense for the jury. The story of a man who allegedly chose to murder his wife and son in the hopes of escaping

accountability for his own messes. A man who wanted deference from his law partners who were starting to ask too many questions. A man who needed time to escape the insurmountable pressure building around him. A man who had failed his wife and had failed his son, both of whom were dependent on him to provide the lifestyle that they enjoyed. A man who lied to police, family and friends about being at the murder scene moments before his wife and son were killed. A man who thought he could get away with anything until it all fell apart in September

2021. To help the state tell that story of deceit and tragedy, Maggie Murdoch's sister, Marion Proctor, was perhaps the most powerful witness we've seen. Marion has stayed entirely out of the spotlight since her sister was murdered in June 2021. But during her testimony, I understood why she stayed quiet. She was clearly terrified. I also want to say that Marion really humanized her sister to the jury. You could tell how much she loved Maggie and how much she was grieving her.

Marion said a lot of things that were very damning to the defense, starting with the fact that she spoke with Maggie on June 7th when Maggie was debating whether or not to go to Moselle that day. She said Elick really wanted her to go. So we move closer to June 7th of 2021, I believe you testified that the family had received some bad prognosis on Mr. Randolph, is that correct? Yes. Maggie called me that day and said she was at Edesteau.

She had some men working on the house and Mr. Randolph was not doing well at all and Elick really wanted her to come home that night. She hadn't planned on it, but that he needed her to come home and Paul was going to be there too and I said, well Maggie, I said, you know, Elick and his dad are super close and that's probably what you should do, go be with him if he needs you. She said that Elick wanted her to come home that night? Yes. What was your understanding of Maggie's intent or what they were going to do that night?

I was under the impression they were going over to Almeida to visit his parents. That's why Elick wanted Maggie to come home? Correct. And that was from your conversation with her? Yes. She called you to let you know that that's what Elick had called her about? Yes. You said she was having some work done at Edesteau on June 7th?

Yes. Just maintenance work, getting it ready for the summer. You encouraged her to go to Mosa? I did. Was that the last time you talked to her? Yes. Thank you. You alright?

You remember about what time of day that was? I think it was around 4 o'clock in the afternoon. Heartbreaking. You could tell how much Marion was hurting by this, by simply telling her sister that she should support her husband and go to Moselle. This was a dark reminder of how many lives were forever changed by this horrendous crime. Marion also told the jury about how Elick was acting in the aftermath of Maggie and Paul's death.

Over the course of the next couple of days, or in the aftermath, as the shock was wearing off just a little bit, did you have any conversation with Elick about what had happened? I didn't talk to Elick a lot. Elick was just really busy and the whole town was coming to see him. He was very, very, very torn up. I did at one point ask him if Maggie had suffered and he assured me that she did not. Now I don't know that I think that's true. And I asked if Paul had suffered and he said no.

And then later I asked him, I said, Elick, do you have any idea who's done this? I said, we have got to find out who could do this. And he said that he did not know who it was, but he felt like whoever did it had thought about it for a really long time. Wow. This was said right after the pathologist told the jury very horrific details of Maggie and Paul's murders, details that I hope Marion never heard. And he said whoever did it thought about it for a really long time.

Was Elick telling on himself? How would he know that? And it's weird that he said this to the person who knew that he was the reason why Maggie was at Moselle that night and so few people knew that Maggie and Paul were at Moselle that night. Marion then told the court that Elick told her parents the same lie he told so many others that he took a nap that night on June 7th after dinner and he said that he didn't go to the kennels before discovering the bodies.

And Marion said that Elick was fixated on the boat crash case in the aftermath of the murders, which is interesting. In the days and weeks following Maggie and Paul's murder, did Elick ever say anything about the boat case? We would talk about the boat case and he was very intent on clearing Paul's name. What did he say? He said that his number one goal was clearing Paul's name and I thought that was so strange because my number one goal was to find out who killed my sister and Paul.

But that wasn't Alex's main concern? I know he must have wanted that too, but I don't know how he could have thought about anything else. He talked about the boat case. Do you ever act scared or afraid that the real killers were out there somewhere or anything like that or was he concerned with the boat case? We were afraid. We didn't know what was going on.

My family was scared. I was scared for Elick and Buster. I felt like they needed protection. I think everybody was afraid and Elick didn't seem to be afraid. I could not imagine how horrible this was for them to live in fear like that. On cross-exam, Jim Griffin made the mistake of asking Marion to elaborate on Elick's fixation with clearing Paul's name in the boat crash case. You mentioned that after the murders that Alex said that he was very intent on clearing

Paul's name from the boating act. You knew that Maggie felt very strongly that Paul was not driving the boat when the beautiful Mallory Beach came to her tragic death, right? Correct. Maggie was adamant. She was on a mission to clear Paul's name. Was she not? Sort of.

Sort of. You're not critical of Alex for warning the clear Paul's name after he was murdered, are you? I'm not critical about that at all. I think that was his way of honoring Paul after he was gone. I just thought his priority should have been focusing on finding out who killed Maggie and Paul. And how do you know that wasn't a priority for him?

We never talked about it. We never talked about finding the person who could have done it. It was just odd. And we were sort of living in fear because we thought this horrible person was out there and we didn't, we were mostly afraid for Alec and Buster, but we didn't know the motive behind the killings. We thought it probably had something to do with the boat case. And we thought that up until September.

Right. And then things started to change a little bit. Sure. Were you aware that Alec started carrying a gun after the murder? I know he always carried a gun. What's that? He always carried a gun. On his person that he started carrying a gun.

Were you aware of that? I knew he usually had one in his car. He asked about Maggie's relationship with Alec and Marion mentioned September, aka the roadside shooting, and Creighton saw the door wide open and he walked right in. You testified about Alec not being focused on trying to figure out who killed Maggie and Paul, and then something happened in September, is that right? Correct. And that changed for you as you started to look at the motive, is that correct?

That's what you just testified, correct? Correct. And in September you got fired from the law firm, right? Correct. And it started to come out about years and years of theft and misappropriation from clients, is that correct? Well, sort of. This is where things really spun off the rails on Tuesday afternoon.

I want to play this clip quickly so y'all can get a taste of the chaos. Jaxon leading, what came out in September that changed your calculus, and Jaxon exceeding the scope across. Jaxon's overruled. We were on our way to a football game and we received a phone call from a friend of ours saying how sorry they were. This issue has not been ruled out. Judge Newman, who remained cool, calm and collected, had the jury exit the room, and

without the jury present, Newman asked Marion what happened in September. So we received a phone call from a friend of ours who said he was so sorry to hear about my brother-in-law, and the call came in to my husband Bart, and Bart said what are you talking about? I don't know anything, and he said well your brother-in-law's been shot. And we literally stopped the car, pulled over on the side of the road, and it was just the worst feeling in the world because I thought whoever had killed Maggie and Paul had now shot Alec, and I was horrified that Buster was next.

So we made a phone call to Buster, and Buster said his dad had been shot, but that he was okay, and he was on his way or in the hospital at that time, I can't remember. And then at some point, and I'm not sure, I think I was in shock, at some point we spoke with Jim Griffin that day, and he told us that yes, Alec had been shot, that he had been fired from the law firm, because he had been caught stealing money. Fired fired, or I say I'm joking, but you all know that he didn't get fired, Alec was allowed to resign. I wonder how that looks on his resume now.

Did you say that you had a conversation with Mr. Griffin? That day that we found out that Alec had been shot, we did have a conversation with Mr. Griffin, and he's the one... Mr. Griffin told you that he'd been fired and that he'd been caught stealing money. Correct. That's just your saying. Well... Absolutely your saying.

What kind of quandary does that put you in, you're going to be a witness as well? Then Creighton asked the judge if he could ask Marion about their marital issues, and I want to talk about that for just a minute. We have heard from several sources that Alec cheated on Maggie, and honestly, this infidelity issue seemed wholesome compared to everything else that Alec has been accused of. But even though we've heard this many times, it was still surprising to hear it discuss an open court, and reminded us of how crazy this whole thing is. It was an affair that happened, or Maggie thought it was an affair that happened many

years ago. They were able to resolve the issues, but Maggie still brought it up. It was recently, it's when? A year ago. She did not think anything was going on, she just, it still bothered her. Jim really did not want the jury to hear about this alleged affair, because for some reason, people think affairs are a more understandable reason to murder your wife than being under incredible financial pressure and having so much debt and having a closet full of skeletons

that's about to be opened because of a $10 million catastrophe caused by your son. It's not admissible under 403. Unfair prejudice outweighs the probative value of this. It still bothered her. She testified that they weren't without their problems, like all married couples, but they had a good marriage. I mean, it's been addressed, and it's highly inflammatory. That's why your questions have to not lead into things that might be inflammatory.

We're going to be in recess for about 15 minutes. I had to play that clip because it was probably the best thing that I've heard in the last few weeks. Anyways, the jury was called back in and Marion told the court about what happened in September. So we pulled over on the side of the road. We were all in hysterics. We called Buster and Buster said yes, that his dad had been shot, that he was being airlifted to the hospital, that they thought he was hoped he was going to be okay.

So we wanted more information, so we called Jim Griffin. And he told us that Ellen had been shot in the head and that he had been fired from his law firm for stealing. What was your concern when you heard that he had been shot? Initially, I thought he might be dead. I had just lost two of the family members, and I felt like they were being targeted at that point. I felt like the family was being targeted.

So listen carefully, because this is what the jury heard Marion say about the roadside shooting. Subsequent to that, did your concern that the family was being targeted, that that changed as well? Over the course of a few weeks, we were still on high alert, worried for Buster. But at that point, information started coming out about some things that Alec had done financially that we had no idea about. That changed your assessment about what you heard about him being shot as well, is that

correct? Answer out loud. The shooting, that was an event in itself. Now this is hard, because it could be interpreted in two different ways. The jury could see this, as Alec stole money and lied, so what else is he capable of? As the reason why Marion changed her mind after the murders. But they could have also seen it, as Alec was up to something, and maybe someone did target their family, because of whatever it is he got into.

This wasn't really clear, but the good news is that on Wednesday, Newman ruled and then ultimately reversed his ruling, allowing that additional roadside shooting testimony will be admissible. We will talk about this later, but additional testimony should help clear up the questions with Marion's testimony, and for the record, I don't think Cousin Eddie is going to testify for the state. But I think additional testimony will show the jury that Alec staged his own shooting as the walls were closing in on him once again, a pattern of violence to avoid accountability.

And finally, on redirect, Marion told the court something very interesting about Paul, and I hope this was Creighton hinting at something bigger. She felt like that. He was always looking to make sure his dad was behaving, and what specifically was the concern? Pills. Prescription. Paint pills.

And had Maggie expressed to you concern over time about the defendant's pill usage? Yes. How long had that been going on? I am not sure, but I think it had been going on for some time. And did that concern continue up until recent times as we moved to their Maggie and Paul's murder? Yes. And what did specifically little detective mean as it related to the pills?

If there were pills in the house that his dad was taking that he wasn't supposed to, Paul was determined that he would find them. And did that happen on occasions? I think so, yes. This is really heavy because I was hard on Paul when I first started reporting on the Murdochs. I didn't understand him like I do now. I believe that he was responsible for Mallory's death, but I know now that Paul was so much

more complex than I ever thought he was. It is not the first person that I've heard say that Paul would take his father's pain pills away. I think that Alec was addicted to pain pills, but I think that he was able to keep his addiction very quiet and very closed off. And I think that it's telling that Alec's team only told the world about his addiction when they felt like it benefited him. In the description of Paul being a little detective, we need to talk about that.

Since in the second slide interview, on June 10th, 2021, Alec used those words to describe Paul. I want to tell you one thing while I'm thinking about it. Paul was really an incredibly intuitive little dude and I mean he was like a little detective and I mean Paul would you know he you know what I'm trying to say. I've thought about this a lot. I know Paul was curious. I know that his parents credit cards were getting denied in bars and weeks leading up

to the murders. And I keep asking myself if something happened on June 7th, if Paul was asking a lot of questions about money or the pills and if that led to his murder. And I got to wonder, was Alec telling on himself? We'll be right back. Last Friday, we also got to meet the mysterious Blanca, Blanca Terbiotti Simpson. She was the Murdoch's housekeeper at the time of the murders and had known the family for a very long time.

And like with Shelly Smith's testimony and Shelly Smith is Ms. Libby's caregiver who was at Almeida when Alec got there around 9.20 that night, Blanca's testimony was very damning against Alec. One of the first things the prosecution did was to establish just how familiar Blanca was with the family's clothing and their habits. She did the laundry for the entire family and she knew what clothes they wore and when they wore it. She knew where they kept their clothes and how they liked their clothes organized.

This ended up being very important for the jury to understand because later in her testimony, Blanca revealed that she knew what Alec wore to work the morning of the murders. Can you tell these folks that there come a point that morning where he left the house? Alex Murdoch, did he leave and go to work? Yes, he did. Okay. And can you tell them what he was wearing? Alex Murdoch, best of your memory when he left, Moselle.

He had a pair of khaki pants, greenish, I call it sea foam color, polo shirt, and he put a blue sports coat over it. And he put his shoes on which were usually right there next to a dresser that they had right there in the living room area. That's where his shoes used to go right there so he just used to kind of slide his shoes on, on his way out the door. Do you remember what type of shoes he had on on Jean Seventh of 2021 when he left? His regular work shoes, there was a pair of brown leather shoes.

Was it a long sleeve shirt or a short sleeve shirt he left on? The polo is a short sleeve shirt. And I'm staying out of advice. Do you remember anything specifically about that shirt? As he put his coat on, he was putting his shoes on and he was putting his coat on. And he was getting ready to walk out. He turned around and I said, Alec, I said, hold on a minute, I said, your collar's sticking up.

So I, I, he turned around and I fixed his collar inside his jacket because one collar was sticking up. Do you actually help? I'm sorry. Did you help move his shirt? Yeah, yes, I did. This was huge because obviously this wasn't what Alec was wearing the night of the murders when police got there.

More importantly, it wasn't what he was wearing in the Snapchat video that Paul had taken of him shortly before eight o'clock that night. In that video, Alec is not wearing a polo shirt, but instead appears to be wearing a light blue fishing shirt that seems to be unbuttoned at the top. It's not clear from the video whether he was wearing a t-shirt underneath it, but this would indicate that Alec had already changed out of his work clothes, making his t-shirt and shorts his third outfit change of the day at the very least. Now this up, who's in the picture?

Alex. Okay. And, and can you tell what kind of pants he's got on? Cackie pants. Okay. Can you tell what kind of shoes he's got on from that, Ms. Simpson? It appears to be the pair of loafers. Loafers?

Mm-hmm. House, house shoes, loafers. Okay. Well, tell me what you mean by house shoes. Um, just his shoes that he would usually wear around the house if he was wearing shoes. So would he usually just wear them inside? Yes, sir. But these appear to be those shoes.

It appears to be yes. And this shirt that Alex Murdoch was wearing on June 7th depicted in States 306, had you seen that shirt prior to June 7th? It was in the closet. Okay. And what type of shirt is that? The Columbia shirt. Columbia shirt?

Yes, sir. Okay. And how many of those type shirts did he have? He had a few in the closet. And, and what color is that shirt? It's like a greenish aqua sea foam. After June 7th of 2021, did you ever see that shirt again? No, sir.

There was like a pink one, a white one, a baby blue in the closet. I do not remember that shirt being in there. And on June 8th of 2021, in the morning hours when you came back over there, was that shirt there? No, sir. Were these shoes that you just called house slippers? Were those there? No, sir.

Did you ever see those house shoes again? No, sir. And where did he usually keep them? In the closet. Did he have any other type shoes, canvas or any kind of boat shoes? He had a lot of shoes in the closet. Do you remember any shoes that were canvas type shoes? The boat shoes, like the spary?

Spary shoes? Yes, sir. And do you remember those? Yes, sir. They used to sit in the closet. They used to sit in the closet. After June 7th of 2021, did you ever see the spary boat shoes again? No, sir.

I don't know. We call see them in the closet. Never ever? No, sir. Did you stay on and work for a period of time for Alex Murdoch at the Moselle? Yes, sir. I did. So not only did it look like Alec had already changed from his work clothes that evening,

Blanca never saw the clothes he was wearing in that video again. Then in August, after Alec's meeting with Sled, where they informed him that they knew he had been wearing different clothes that evening before the murders, he did the same thing he did to Shelly Smith, his mother's caretaker. And he seemed to be attempting to plant a false memory in Blanca's mind. With Shelly, it was about the time he spent at Almeida. He wanted her to say 30 to 40 minutes when it was about 20. Worse, he offered to help Shelly pay for her wedding and get her a better job at the county

school district. She was so nervous about this conversation that she called her brother, who was a chief of police, in Hampton. With Blanca, it was about him wearing a different shirt that night. But Blanca wasn't having it. In August of 2021, Mr. Blanca. Yes, sir. Did you have a conversation with Alec's Murdoch about a shirt?

Yes, I did. And let's go back. Where did this take place? At the Little House. All right. What do you mean the Little House? After Paul and Maggie were killed, Alec was not staying at Moselle. My husband and I were.

And he would often stay in different places. But all his clothes and toiletries and everything were placed in the house that sits between Mr. Johnny Parker and his brother, Randy. There's a small two bedroom house right there, and that's where all his belongings at the time went. And where is that located? In Hampton. Okay.

In Hampton. Who furnished this little house with clothes and toiletries and made sure stuff was there? I did. And who was Alec's Murdoch staying there with when he stayed there? If anybody? He never stayed there. He would just go and get his clothing and eat whatever, you know, if he would have a snack or something.

He wasn't really eating. Well, during the month of August, do you remember him having a conversation with you about a shirt? Yes, sir. Did you find that to be unusual? Yes, sir. Okay. Tell them what the common perception was and why he found it unusual.

Please. He walked in to the little house and I was almost, I was getting ready to leave. And he said, B, I need to talk to you. And he said, come here, sit down. So I went in the living room and I sat down and he was pacing back and forth in the living room. And he said, I got a bad feeling. He said, I got a bad feeling.

He said, something's not right. And then he said, he said, well, you know, there's a video, there was a video that was out. I hadn't seen a video. And he said, you remember the shirt I was wearing, that Vinnie Vine shirt? Those were, that's what he said to me. And in my mind, I was saying, I don't remember Vinnie Vine's shirt. It was the polo shirt.

But I didn't mention, he said, well, you know what? I was wearing that shirt. He said, you know, in the, that day. And still, I was just, I didn't say anything, but I was kind of thrown back because I don't remember that. I remember him wearing that shirt that day when he left. I know what shirt he was wearing because I fixed the collar and the collars are different material.

And I don't know what a Vinnie Vine shirt is, but when he left that day, was he wearing a Vinnie Vine shirt? Or was he wearing the collar you've described? It was a polo shirt. Polo shirt. Just using your common sense that it appeared to you, he was trying to take you to say I was wearing the shirt. That's sustained.

That's a formal question. How did you take that conversation? I felt like he was, I felt like, I felt confused at first. And then I know what he was wearing the day he left the house and I was basically confused. I didn't really know whether he was trying to get me to say that that shirt was, if I was to be asked, that that was a shirt he was wearing the day. We'll be right back. These incidents once again show that Alec Murdoch was lying about his alibi.

And worse, he was trying to get other people to lie for him. Innocent men don't usually need to lie about their alibis. They don't have to offer to help pay for weddings or try to convince the housekeeper that they had a different outfit on the day his family was murdered. Let's talk about that interview that got Alec so spooked. So on Wednesday, we finally got to watch that August 11th, 2021 interview of Alec that Sled did. This is the one that led him to try and rewrite history with Blanca.

And August 11th is also the date that 14th Circuit Solicitor Duffy Stone finally recused himself from the case. If you've been a long time listener of the show, you know that we've asked several times what happened in August 2021? Well, now we know. This interview was very damaging to the defense. First, Alec showed up at Sled with Corey Fleming by his side. Corey, who is accused of being his co-conspirator in the Satterfield case.

Corey, whose law license is suspended in South Carolina and Georgia and who is out on bond in a waiting trial on 23 charges, most of them felonies. Corey is now the third lawyer Alec has with him for these interviews. But Corey is the only one of the three lawyers who tries to set some game rules for the interview. He demands to know if Alec is there as a suspect. During the interview, the door stayed open. Alec was free to go at any time, but the appearance of extreme cooperation is a part of Alec's

manipulation. He repeatedly tells investigators that he understands they have to do their jobs. He tells them he is an open book. Now, during this interview, a few things happen. One, Alec is asked again if he was down by the kennels that night after dinner. Investigators tell him Rogan Gibson heard his voice in the background of the phone call with Paul at the kennels at 8.40 that night. Alec again denies that he was down at the kennels and says he has no idea who Rogan

could have heard in the background of that call. Of course, this interview was way before Paul's phone had the information extracted from it in March of 2022, so no one knew at this time that Paul had a video with Alec's voice in the background showing that Alec was indeed down by the kennels minutes before the murders. More than a dozen friends and family have identified that voice as Alec's with 100% certainty. Two, Alec is told that the casings from the 300 blackout that killed Maggie matched the

casings found outside the family's gun room from a few months earlier. Three, they ask him if he'd noticed any missing weapons from the house. Alec says he did and mentions three shotguns. Then he tells investigators that he is now certain the 300 blackout Paul had misplaced or stolen in 2017 got replaced. Remember, the initial story was that Alec thought this gun, let's call it the third blackout, had been stolen a while ago. Basically saying that the only blackout they had was the one in the gun room.

Turns out, Alec's cousin, a DNR officer who sold them the guns, had also told Sled that there were only ever two blackouts. It wasn't until investigators found a canceled check of Maggie's that they knew for sure there was indeed a third one that was now missing. Alec's cousin told Sled he had lost that paperwork. In this interview, investigators tell Alec, again, who is now saying the family did have a blackout at the time of the murders come to think of it, that they already know this because they had already cleared this up with his cousin.

So, did Alec already know Sled knew about the third one and was trying to appear forthcoming? It's hard to tell, but it sure looks that way given his earlier claims about the gun and given the defense's efforts to muddle the issue when trying to get the ballistics expert's testimony thrown out. Four, Alec lies during the interview and tells investigators that Maggie surprised him by coming to Moselle that night. She wanted to take care of me, he tells them. Investigators already know that Maggie had called her sister on June 7th to tell her

that Alec wanted her at Moselle that night and that her sister is the one who encouraged Maggie to go and be with her husband. And five, investigators tell him about the shirt he is wearing in the Snapchat video. Based on Blanca's testimony, this is obviously very upsetting to Alec and it sends him into a panic. Who wouldn't be panicked by the thought of getting falsely accused, right? But guess what? He never offers to get those clothes to investigators to show them that he's not hiding anything.

Instead, he tries to rewrite history and turn his housekeeper into an accomplice after the fact. Instead, Alec's response to that video is to ask the Sled agent what time the video was taken. The Sled agent says dusk, so Alec says, well, he must have changed after the video because, of course, he did. Now, at the end of the interview, things got real and Sled went for it. Thank you, man. I just saw a few more questions. Okay. Did you kill Maggie?

No. Did I kill my wife? Yes. No, David. Do you know who did? No, I do not know who did it. Did you kill Paul? No, I did not kill Paul.

Do you know who did it? No, sir. I do not know who did it. Do you think I killed Maggie? I have to go where the evidence and the fact are taking me. I understand that. Do you think I killed Paul? I have to go where the evidence and the fact are taking me.

I do not have anything that points to anybody else at this time. Does that mean that I am a suspect? You were still in it like I told Corey earlier. You were still in this. Yes. With everything that we talked about with the family guns and ammunition and nobody else's DNA

I have to put my police aside and get with the facts. Let's also add to this that Ellick hasn't shown any concern about his or Buster's safety. He hasn't given any leads to investigators. He never mentions the Cowboys or Curtis Eddie Smith or that he's an alleged $50,000 a week drug addict. Let's add to it those lies about the alibi. Let's add to it that the data from his car

doesn't match his timeline. Let's add to it that despite insisting that he tried to turn Paul over and that he checked the pulses of both Maggie and Paul who were surrounded by significant amounts of blood and fluids he had no visible blood on him. Moreover, the only DNA found on his sneakers that night was from him. And let's add to it that Maggie's blood was on the steering wheel of the Suburban and her DNA was on the 12 gauge shotgun of Paul's

that Sled can't rule out as the weapon used to kill Paul. So despite what the critics of the state's case have said, there is a lot there. Because Ellick Murdock hired one of the most expensive defense teams money can buy in South Carolina, which is again the same team he hired for his son that he is accused of killing. The state has had to fight fire with fire and therefore the case has been overwhelming

with so much evidence presented and so many threads pulled ahead. It's hard to find the narrative sometimes. It feels like we've been reading a book whose first few chapters are the footnotes. But now we're seeing it come together. Lie after lie after lie. And it's all going to come down to this. How many jumps in logic will the jury need to believe that Ellick Murdock is the victim of a corrupt justice system?

How many lies will they be willing to overlook to make the defense's story fit? How much truth will they be willing to assign to a man who has shown himself to be the least trustworthy person in that courtroom? We don't know if this jury will convict Ellick Murdock or find him not guilty. We don't know if Ellick Murdock will take the stand. We don't know if the jury will even be able to reach a verdict here. But in the end, the most important question will be this. Will there always be two systems of justice in South Carolina?

And what will we do to change it? Stay tuned and stay in the sunlight. The Murdock Murders podcast is created and hosted by me, Manny Matney. Produced by my husband, David Moses. And Liz Farrell is our executive editor. From Luna Shark Productions.